March 6, 2025 • 31 mins
Julie's Big Gorgeous Goals: Official Workbook is here! Order your copy today.
In this episode, we dive into the inspiring journey of Steph Sellers, founder of Cookies and Dreams, and her mission to spread joy through gourmet cookies. As she navigates the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, she shares valuable insights into building community connections and the realities of running a successful business.
Steph Sellers is the founder of Midwest based, gourmet cookie company called Cookies & Dreams. Her baking journey started at the local farmers market as a young college graduate & continued over many years, a few restaurants & lots of ups & downs. After a particularly tumultuous year, Steph knew she needed to try something new if her restaurant was going to survive. She came out with a menu of 12 gourmet cookies to sell at her restaurant's bakery & the rest, as they say, is history. The cookie concept took off quickly! Later that year, she opened her first stand-alone brick & mortar store for Cookies & Dreams & began shipping nationwide. While the Cookies & Dreams journey has also been full of highs & lows, Steph & the Dream Team now run two successful brick & mortar locations, ship nationwide, wholesale & offer fundraising opportunities with their giant, gourmet cookies.
You can learn more about Cookies & Dreams on their website or Instagram.
You can also connect with Steph on LinkedIn.
You can connect with Julie on LinkedIn or Instagram.
Find Julie's writing at her blog or by ordering her book Big Gorgeous Goals and the brand new official companion workbook!
What did you think of this conversation? We'd love if you'd rate or review our show!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Julie (00:04):
Welcome to Figure 8, where we feature inspiring
stories of women entrepreneurswho have grown their businesses
to seven and eight figuresrevenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, Julie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book BigGorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure 8.
(01:07):
Today I am in conversation withSteph Sellers of Cookies and
Dreams.
Steph has locations in Iowa andshe started baking as a kid and
selling her baking at localfairs and farmer's markets, and
soon it became a full-timebaking business.
(01:29):
Today she has a couple ofphysical locations and a team
and she is growing afternavigating lots of bumps and
tumbles in her way to her ownworld domination.
So welcome, Steph.
Thank you for joining me.
Steph (01:46):
Thanks so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Julie (01:49):
Ah, it's so good, yeah, yeah.
So tell me about your journey.
I see you there in the bakery.
I can see the hustle and bustlegoing on in the background, and
what an interesting business.
Steph (02:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's certainly been a wild ride, like
many entrepreneurial journeyshave been, and, of course,
they're all unique, althoughours has certainly had a lot of
ups and downs, significant hillsand significant valleys,
(02:29):
significant hills andsignificant valleys.
And we so, based in Iowa, we doa mixture of retail and
e-commerce, which offers its ownset of challenges as well, but
we bake gourmet cookies, which Ifeel like everyone associates
with I don't even want to say it, but we're going to say it
crumble, but everyone associatesit with that, but we, we have
our own spin on it.
(02:49):
Um, and our goal is really tomake people happy, like that's,
that's what we do, and I feellike sometimes people try to
dance around why, their why?
And, at the end of the day,that's, that's our, our why is
we?
We like to bring joy andconnection to our community and
in to our guests.
Julie (03:09):
And I feel like that kind of fits with a cookie, like
it's something, it's homemade,it's made with love and it's
made to be enjoyed
Steph (03:17):
Absolutely, like have you ever been sad eating a cookie?
It's so we really like to drivethat home of like this is
supposed to be happy, it'sjoyful and it's so special too,
because so many of our guestshave come to us when they were
getting married and then we maketheir baby shower cookies and
(03:39):
then their first birthdaycookies and their you know,
their family and their friendscookies or cookie cakes.
So being able to create thatconnection within the community
just is so special and it makesa huge difference in the success
of of who we are, and so that'sa big part of what has made us
(03:59):
successful, despite some of thechallenges that we've had, which
which is another side of thestory, of course but being able
to to really connect with ourcommunity has has allowed us to
overcome a lot of that.
Julie (04:14):
As a bit of a baker myself, I think that lots of
people have a dream of likesharing their baked goods with
more than just their family ormaybe their friends.
How did it turn into an actualbusiness for you?
(04:34):
Because I think you know lotsof people sort of think about
the idea, but you went ahead anddid it like you're.
You got a real bakery withemployees and you know all the
things that comes with.
Steph (04:46):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I actually very first got mystart when I graduated college,
all the way back in 2010.
So a while ago and I had myvery first job at Wells Fargo.
I'm like fresh out of collegewith a business major, like I'm
gonna, I'm gonna do this.
(05:06):
And I worked at Wells Fargo.
After three weeks, they laidoff all of all of us in their
branches because of a mergerwith Wachovia or something.
Essentially, all of ourpositions were redundant.
I was already doing a lot ofbaking on my own and I thought
you know what, I'm gonna needsome extra cash.
So I started baking at thefarmer's markets and that took
(05:28):
off really very quickly and Ithought you know what this could
actually be a thing and I wasat that point in time I was very
young, very inexperienced andwanted to be cautious, which was
smart at that time.
So I opened a little studiobakery.
I didn't have like retail hours, I just took orders, did
(05:51):
special events and I like veryrarely had hours on the weekends
for holidays and stuff.
And then I wholesaled to otherrestaurants and places in the
area and I did that for three orfour years and there were some
really good things about thatand some not so good things.
Like some of the good thingswere, I had some flexibility in
(06:13):
my schedule.
I was able to learn a lot aboutbusiness and learn things very
quickly, really hone my bakingskills at that point, because
I'm completely self taughtschool of hard knocks all the
way.
And the other side of it isthat I was doing everything and
so I became burnt out andultimately I sold that business
(06:35):
and just decided I didn't wantto bake anymore at that time.
Actually, I took some time offand eventually, to make a long
story short we opened me and mythen boyfriend, we opened a cafe
and I started baking again andthat quickly grew and so we
decided to open a bakery in arestaurant and that went from
(06:59):
zero to a thousand in like threeseconds flat.
It was supposed to be just asmall little bakery and then all
of a sudden it was like abakery, a restaurant and a
brewery and it was like sixthousand square feet and
although there was certainly alot of lessons and a lot of fun
and a lot of growth with that,it was a lot um right, and so
(07:23):
there was a lot of good and badwith that side of the growth.
However, the bakery that wasinside the restaurant was very
successful and we sold cookiesas one of the items on our
bakery menu.
So, after a really, reallytough season, I was looking at
our P-Mix to see what are weselling.
(07:43):
What do we need to go hard onthis winter?
What are our opportunities?
Because we can't have anotherwinter like we did last winter.
Like we're baked in Iowa, itcan get nasty here and that can
really affect small business.
So our top selling item in theentire building was a chocolate
chip cookie, and that sparkedthe idea for cookies and dreams,
(08:07):
and I came up with a menu of 12cookies, all different kinds
and flavors.
Some were filled, some were notfilled.
Um launched that in January 2020and the rest is history.
Honestly, it it took off veryquickly and um, um and so the
journey was, you know, to getfrom the dream of like I want to
(08:29):
bake for a living to actuallyhaving a couple of bakeries
employees, you know, sellingnationwide it.
I mean, it was all over theplace, ups and downs and
sideways, and so those types ofjourneys I I think are not
linear and while some people maylook and have looked at Cookies
and Dreams and seen anovernight success because it was
(08:50):
very quick.
It certainly was not.
So I certainly advise people toalways look at that.
The journey is never linear andit's never overnight, despite
what it may seem.
Julie (09:02):
It's so true.
It's so true because they seethat moment of success, but not
all of the things and like with,in your case, the different
iterations of a bakery that ledto you actually having this
business at this at that exacttime.
So I'm also interested because,obviously, January of 2020 was
an interesting time tounknowingly be starting a
(09:26):
business and the fact that youdecided to ship your cookies all
across the United States.
Was that something you decidedbecause of the pandemic, or was
it before that, when you startedthe business, that you decided
you would want to have that kindof an e-commerce arm?
Steph (09:44):
It was actually it was something we wanted to do, or I
wanted to do, but I wanted togauge local interest first and
we had a platform with therestaurant, which we were
fortunate to have.
But you know, I think that thatpeople could find that platform
on local farmers markets anddoing pop-ups.
I think it's really importantto test your idea before you
(10:05):
invest you know, a hundred hoursinto creating a website.
You need people to come to thewebsite.
Like having a website is great,but people need to actually
visit it.
So the goal was always to doe-commerce, but we really needed
to like, get our ducks in orderand gauge interest.
What's going to sell, what'sgoing to resonate, how is this
(10:29):
going to work logistically first, and so it kind of coincided
with COVID in a really uniqueway, just by happenstance.
But we felt like we needed totest it on a retail or local
basis first.
Julie (10:45):
Yeah, I always think it's so interesting how, like, how
luck and circumstances play intokind of what happens for you as
you go down those paths right,and so the fact that you thought
about shipping at all um andand looked to, you know, cookies
is a more durable product.
(11:06):
There's some baked goods thatwould be a lot harder to ship,
like all of those kinds ofthings, like the sort of like
luck that pairs with the hardwork, taking the opportunities
and then being able to actuallycapitalize and grow because you
have, you know, positionedyourself well.
Steph (11:27):
Yeah, i t's never like a single approach, like you
testing and getting feedback.
It not only helps you as yourbusiness, but it helps create
that community that I think anybusiness needs to be successful,
because people don't just wantto buy from a brand anymore,
they want to buy from a person,they want to know your story,
and so and I think we're seeingmore of that and that's becoming
more common, which is greatbecause it shows people that it
(11:50):
can be done and it shows peoplethat it's not just all like
rainbow sprinkles and chocolatechips, like this is.
This is hard and there's a lotof bumps in the road.
So I'm I'm really excited tosee a lot more brands and a lot
more people kind of showingbehind the scenes and sharing
their story of you know, this iswhy we're doing it.
(12:10):
This is what it looks like.
You know, this is when we cried, this is when we laughed, all
of those things.
Julie (12:17):
And we did cry.
We might not tell you about itall the time, but we did.
Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
I think it's interesting,though, because the idea of yeah
, telling that story you're notjust trying to sell a product
you're trying to like be real.
And one of the risks, I think,in entrepreneurship is you start
(12:38):
a business because you lovesomething and then you end up
like not loving it as muchbecause the reality of business
you know, cookies are great, butit's a business like anything
else and you have problems andchallenges and things you
probably don't like about it,which is totally normal, but
sometimes, when it's aboutsomething you love, it can be
hard.
Steph (12:57):
Yeah, and that's a really good point, because I think, as
entrepreneurs, we should bepassionate about what we're
spending so much time working on.
And that can be a tough thingas a business owner, because,
you know, I bake or I makecookies because I love it, but
there's so many parts of it thatI don't love.
And so that's a great point,because I think, as leaders and
(13:21):
business owners, you almost haveto structure your job
intentionally to where you stillhave time to do the things that
you love.
Otherwise, you're just going toget burnt out, you're not going
to love it anymore and thebusiness is going to run you
rather than the other way around.
You have to set up processesand systems in your team to do
things so that you can still dowhat you love, because without
(13:43):
you, you know, of course, thebusiness wouldn't exist, but but
you need.
You need to be able to do thatfor yourself.
Julie (13:52):
Well, it's like the, the, the, the two-sidedness of
without you, the businesswouldn't exist, but it needs to
be able to exist without you.
Like the two sides of that coinare so interesting.
Steph (14:04):
Yes, yeah it's, and that's a tough one, because you,
on one hand, you love it youwouldn't have started it if you
didn't and so you want to putyourself in the business.
But at the same time, as aleader and a smart business
owner, you have to set up thosesystems and processes to where
it can run independently.
And that kind of goes back tolike why are you starting this
(14:27):
business?
Are you starting a job?
Are you starting something thatyou want to be a legacy for,
maybe your children?
Are you starting it because youwant to sell it someday?
Most people don't think aboutlike.
I think in business class theyalways go over.
This is how you make a businessplan and you have to go over
your exit plan.
And everybody's like why, whydo I need to talk about my exit
(14:47):
plan?
But you do, because itstructures how you're going to
run your business and how youcreate it.
So that's something that Ithink a lot of us are guilty of
overlooking.
Julie (15:00):
Well, and even things like are you able to pay
yourself, you know, a wage thatwould be comparable to hiring an
outsider to do the job thatyou're doing?
Steph (15:09):
Right, yeah, and what's the payoff?
So, like, if I hire somebody todo this job, what does that
free me up to do?
Does it free me up to createmore revenue, because that's
that's why we're all here, right, like, we want to grow.
So they're not easy answers to,to to work on and to figure out
(15:31):
, um, as entrepreneurs, butthose are, I think, some of the
skill sets that aren't talkedabout nearly enough.
Yeah, um, you know we, we hearabout your business plan and
marketing and the latest trendson Instagram or TikTok.
Um, but some of those questionsare the ones that I think need
(15:53):
to be a little bit more focusedon.
(16:21):
Oh, absolutely so.
At that point, scaling you haveno choice but to create those
systems and processes, and Ithink having a solid team from
the get-go is what's going toallow you to do that, because
there's a certain point whereyou cannot do all of the jobs
and your team needs to help youcreate some of those systems and
(16:43):
processes and help you documentthem, because you cannot be
good at everything.
So I am a big advocate in thisand I haven't always done this,
but, um, you need to hire slowand fire fast, because that is
going to make or break yourbusiness from day one.
Um, and those are some of themistakes that we made in the
(17:05):
very beginning, where we werejust hiring bodies because we
needed people and they ended upbeing very detrimental to the
business.
So that's something where youneed to hire a good team from
the get-go.
Even if it takes a little bitlonger, you're going to grow
faster at the end of the daybecause you have the right
people in place.
Julie (17:27):
Yeah, and now, often you know growth and scaling up is a
bumpy process.
You have to try things andlearn from them and you know you
feel like you're doing thedance of two or three steps
forward and five steps back, andtwo or three steps forward and
one step back.
And what has that been like foryou as you've been growing the
business?
Steph (17:46):
Yeah, so we actually grew to some other locations.
We have two locations now andwe ship nationwide, but at one
point we had, I think, fivelocations and that was just we
were not ready for the growth.
It happened incredibly fast andwe didn't have the right people
(18:08):
in place, and so it just itjust fell apart.
It just did not not work.
And so we've we scaled backrather quickly, honestly, kind
of like brought things back tocenter and have been stabilizing
and then growing what we havewhere we already have the
infrastructure in place for like, for example, we do some
(18:30):
wholesaling and some fundraisingand then the e-commerce, and so
we already have thatinfrastructure in place.
And so that's our areas ofgrowth for right now, while
we're still trying to stabilizeand try to figure out our next
move.
In the beginning it was likelet's do everything all at once
(18:52):
and be all of the things to allof the people, and it just it
was not good.
I feel like a lot of people sayone of the easiest ways to fail
is to grow too quickly, andwe've been very fortunate that
we did not succumb to that,because it was a very quick,
unstable, irresponsible type ofgrowth.
(19:14):
So, um, we learned a lot inthat process and I think that's
what has allowed us to stabilizeand still continue that growth,
but in a smarter way, because alot of people they see growth
and they think more locations,more products.
But that's not the case.
(19:34):
Like what do you have in placecurrently that you can grow,
that you already have theinfrastructure.
You don't need a lot ofadditional investment or team
members or anything you have tolike.
I think a very strong skill setfor entrepreneurs is their
scrappiness, just like straightscrappiness.
You have to look at what youropportunities are here before
(20:00):
you want to go big, big, big,and there's also a lot of value,
I think, in.
You know, and this isn't foreverybody.
Some people do want to be thebiggest, but we want to be the
best.
So that's where we're at, andso we're still certainly a good
size and and have been able togrow, but we're going to grow a
(20:21):
lot smarter moving forward.
Julie (20:25):
Well, it is not dissimilar to the higher slow
fire fast.
You know, it's the, it's thegrow with a bunch of
thoughtfulness about it anddon't be afraid to pull back
when the path doesn't look likeit's quite the right one
Steph (20:39):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Um, playing the long game,because that's you know, you
could easily take a look at, atwhat happened and us opening a
bunch of locations and thenclosing them and scaling them
back as a failure.
But it's really just aredirection, um, and kind of
getting back to who do we wantto be?
(21:00):
Um, and and there was a lot ofpain with that there was a lot
of removal of people that werenot good for the business, um,
which was painful and anddifficult.
But you know what's your goal?
And that kind of goes back tooriginally, like creating that
business plan who do you want tobe?
(21:20):
And what's your plan here?
Like, do you want just a job?
Do you want a legacy?
Do you want to sell?
What do you want to do here?
Is it short-term, long-term, doyou want to get acquired?
Right?
So, being clear on on that andthat's not to say that can't
change along the way, but you,you need to look at the, at the
long game when you decide youwant to scale for sure.
Julie (21:44):
Yeah, yeah, and really figuring out, I think too, like
you've got, you've got to takethe chances, so, so what are the
right chances to take?
Cause there's like a point whereyou're like I think I did the
wrong thing, so how do you havethat assessment for did?
Am I just scared?
Is it really the wrong thing?
Like, how do you determinethose different pieces Right?
(22:06):
Because I think there are thosemoments where you're like I
feel like, oh my God, thebottom's falling out, but really
you're doing the right thing,versus understanding that you do
need to pull back and makechanges.
Steph (22:18):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's a great point too,because I think, as business
owners, when you're trying togrow and trying to scale, you're
always going to feel likeyou're drowning, like know that,
that's normal.
Number one.
Um, if you're, if you don't feellike you're drowning, then you
know..
You're about to.
(22:39):
Yeah so, um, that that's normal, um, but that kind of
brings in another point ofhaving a strong support system
and mentors that are outside ofyour business that can offer you
advice, because you can't readthe label when you're inside the
jar and so you need people fromthe outside looking in to help
(23:02):
advise you.
And it's a lot like raisingchildren.
It takes a village.
So, um, I have a two and a halfyear old at home and I feel
like business ownership andraising a toddler has a lot of
similarities.
You know, you always feel likeyou're drowning, you don't feel
like you're getting any sleep,you know you're not qualified to
(23:25):
do what you're doing exactly.
Julie (23:27):
Yes, a lot like motherhood, for sure.
Steph (23:29):
Yeah, so having having that support system and some
really good mentors is super,super valuable, and I know that
there's resources out therethrough various small business
organizations, but it could bejust friends and people that you
find through networking, familymembers and stuff, just people
(23:52):
that can give you advice, thatare not in it.
Julie (23:57):
It's that balance of, like, people who have more
experience than you, people whohave different experience than
you, people who just look atthings differently.
Steph (24:07):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's.
It takes a village, whetheryou're running a business or
raising children.
It's not something that you cando on your own.
In some entrepreneurs, I thinkwe can be very hyper independent
, right, and that can be it's.
It can be hard to ask for help,so, but it's, it's absolutely
(24:28):
necessary.
You, you can't do it alone.
Julie (24:31):
Yeah.
Well, and I think the idea thatyou've got and the mission
(24:54):
you've got to be the best.
Not the biggest.
But that feels very customerfocused, and value focused for
you, in terms of how you'regoing to the market.
Steph (24:55):
And we, actually I'm a stickler and we say guests and
not customers, because customersimplies the transactional and a
guest is somebody that iscoming into our home and we are
providing them with hospitality,you know, think of it as
somebody that's coming into yourhome and you just bake them a
fresh batch of chocolate chipcookies and you know you
wouldn't just expect them to belike, okay, give me what you
(25:17):
have and I will give you thecookies.
It's more of a hospitality andconnection which really comes
back to creating that communityof people, because that's just
you.
You have to.
You, you need people that aregoing to fight for you and show
up for you.
And as businesses, sometimes youmake mistakes, that's, that's a
(25:40):
given.
But when you have thatcommunity surrounding you, then
it, it softens that just just alittle bit.
So so yeah, I'm, I'm a bit of astickler in within the business
of we say guests instead ofcustomers, because it truly is,
especially with baked goods.
You know it's, it's we don'twant it to be transactional at
(26:03):
all.
Julie (26:04):
Right, well, and that's sort of what you talked about
earlier of.
You know it's the wedding andthen the baby shower and then
the baby's first birthday and,like you, are creating those
moments with people where yourcookies are showing up at
important times in their lives.
Steph (26:20):
Absolutely, and that's just it.
Like just this week we gotinvited to somebody's wedding,
which was so fun and it justmeans so much to us that we can
play a role in people's lives.
And you know I always say thatwe make cookies but we don't
sell cookies, it's we sell.
(26:42):
We sell that.
We sell the people inviting usto our their wedding because
we've played an important rolein their love story and in their
lives.
And you know we have a guestthat is such a big fan of ours
it's like he showed me his phoneand all of his pictures are
like our cookies and he bringsthem to everybody he knows and
(27:05):
because it creates joy for himto share the cookies, um, just
like it creates joy for us toshare the cookies.
Julie (27:12):
I think that's so interesting though, though, that
the spreading joy, because it'slike such a different I mean
when you think you shipnationwide like it's joy showing
up on people's front porchesand in the you know lobbies of
apartment buildings and all ofthe different places those
people live who are orderingfrom you.
(28:01):
What do you see for the nextcouple of years?
Steph (28:04):
That's a great question.
So right now, for this year,we're really going to be working
on growing our e-commerce sideof the business, along with our
fundraising.
So with our fundraising, weoffer a couple different options
, but one of them is like hinkGirl Scout cookies, but with our
(28:25):
cookies.
So we help support schools andcharities and organizations in
that way and it really helps usbe a part of the community, and
we'd like to turn that intoonline as well for e-commerce.
Right now we just do it locally, but we'd like to be able to
offer that nationwide, just toexpand that reach.
(28:47):
And we would love to expand toanother location, probably not
this year, but maybe in a yearor two, once we're able to do a
little bit more stabilizing andjust deciding on where that is.
I'm a big advocate for owningyour backyard before you go.
(29:07):
So whether that's still in therealm of our backyard here in
Iowa or in the Midwest, we'llhave to see.
But for right now, we reallywant to focus on the things that
we currently already have theinfrastructure in place for,
like e-commerce, likefundraising.
We do a fair amount ofwholesaling, so that's something
(29:30):
that we'd like to take a deeper, dive into and then decide what
is the next step in terms of alarger retail footprint.
Julie (29:40):
Yeah, and I think I mean I think it's really interesting.
You know the fundraising ideaas somebody who had a big
fundraising part of my businesswhen we had Mabel's Labels.
Fundraising was a big piece ofwhat we did and it's nice to be
able to give back toorganizations that are working
in different communities.
Steph (29:58):
Yes, absolutely, and we do a lot of schools, which is
great, and it's it.
When the kids are doing thecookie sales.
It offers so much value to themtoo, because they're getting
out there and they're, they'rehustling and they're trying to
raise money for their schools,for a trip or for, you know band
instruments or whatever ithappens to be, and so it's a big
(30:22):
ripple effect of what all ofthe good that can come out of
that.
Julie (30:28):
Yeah, good.
Well, I'm really excited to seewhere Cookies and Dreams goes
and grows for you next, Steph,and I hope that people all
across the US find you for thee-commerce and get some of your
delicious cookies delivered totheir front porch.
And thank you for joining metoday.
Steph (30:47):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Julie (30:49):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
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Figure 8 isn't just a podcast.
It's a way of seeing the BigGorgeous Goals of women
entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
(31:10):
book Big Gorgeous Goals onAmazon, anywhere you might live.
For more about my growth andleadership training programs,
visit www.
juliellis.
ca to see how we might worktogether.
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
(31:31):
Once again, that's www.
julieellis.
ca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure 8.
Welcome to Figure 8, where we feature inspiring
stories of women entrepreneurswho have grown their businesses
to seven and eight figuresrevenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, Julie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book BigGorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure 8.
(01:07):
Today I am in conversation withSteph Sellers of Cookies and
Dreams.
Steph has locations in Iowa andshe started baking as a kid and
selling her baking at localfairs and farmer's markets, and
soon it became a full-timebaking business.
(01:29):
Today she has a couple ofphysical locations and a team
and she is growing afternavigating lots of bumps and
tumbles in her way to her ownworld domination.
So welcome, Steph.
Thank you for joining me.
Steph (01:46):
Thanks so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
Julie (01:49):
Ah, it's so good, yeah, yeah.
So tell me about your journey.
I see you there in the bakery.
I can see the hustle and bustlegoing on in the background, and
what an interesting business.
Steph (02:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's certainly been a wild ride, like
many entrepreneurial journeyshave been, and, of course,
they're all unique, althoughours has certainly had a lot of
ups and downs, significant hillsand significant valleys,
(02:29):
significant hills andsignificant valleys.
And we so, based in Iowa, we doa mixture of retail and
e-commerce, which offers its ownset of challenges as well, but
we bake gourmet cookies, which Ifeel like everyone associates
with I don't even want to say it, but we're going to say it
crumble, but everyone associatesit with that, but we, we have
our own spin on it.
(02:49):
Um, and our goal is really tomake people happy, like that's,
that's what we do, and I feellike sometimes people try to
dance around why, their why?
And, at the end of the day,that's, that's our, our why is
we?
We like to bring joy andconnection to our community and
in to our guests.
Julie (03:09):
And I feel like that kind of fits with a cookie, like
it's something, it's homemade,it's made with love and it's
made to be enjoyed
Steph (03:17):
Absolutely, like have you ever been sad eating a cookie?
It's so we really like to drivethat home of like this is
supposed to be happy, it'sjoyful and it's so special too,
because so many of our guestshave come to us when they were
getting married and then we maketheir baby shower cookies and
(03:39):
then their first birthdaycookies and their you know,
their family and their friendscookies or cookie cakes.
So being able to create thatconnection within the community
just is so special and it makesa huge difference in the success
of of who we are, and so that'sa big part of what has made us
(03:59):
successful, despite some of thechallenges that we've had, which
which is another side of thestory, of course but being able
to to really connect with ourcommunity has has allowed us to
overcome a lot of that.
Julie (04:14):
As a bit of a baker myself, I think that lots of
people have a dream of likesharing their baked goods with
more than just their family ormaybe their friends.
How did it turn into an actualbusiness for you?
(04:34):
Because I think you know lotsof people sort of think about
the idea, but you went ahead anddid it like you're.
You got a real bakery withemployees and you know all the
things that comes with.
Steph (04:46):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I actually very first got mystart when I graduated college,
all the way back in 2010.
So a while ago and I had myvery first job at Wells Fargo.
I'm like fresh out of collegewith a business major, like I'm
gonna, I'm gonna do this.
(05:06):
And I worked at Wells Fargo.
After three weeks, they laidoff all of all of us in their
branches because of a mergerwith Wachovia or something.
Essentially, all of ourpositions were redundant.
I was already doing a lot ofbaking on my own and I thought
you know what, I'm gonna needsome extra cash.
So I started baking at thefarmer's markets and that took
(05:28):
off really very quickly and Ithought you know what this could
actually be a thing and I wasat that point in time I was very
young, very inexperienced andwanted to be cautious, which was
smart at that time.
So I opened a little studiobakery.
I didn't have like retail hours, I just took orders, did
(05:51):
special events and I like veryrarely had hours on the weekends
for holidays and stuff.
And then I wholesaled to otherrestaurants and places in the
area and I did that for three orfour years and there were some
really good things about thatand some not so good things.
Like some of the good thingswere, I had some flexibility in
(06:13):
my schedule.
I was able to learn a lot aboutbusiness and learn things very
quickly, really hone my bakingskills at that point, because
I'm completely self taughtschool of hard knocks all the
way.
And the other side of it isthat I was doing everything and
so I became burnt out andultimately I sold that business
(06:35):
and just decided I didn't wantto bake anymore at that time.
Actually, I took some time offand eventually, to make a long
story short we opened me and mythen boyfriend, we opened a cafe
and I started baking again andthat quickly grew and so we
decided to open a bakery in arestaurant and that went from
(06:59):
zero to a thousand in like threeseconds flat.
It was supposed to be just asmall little bakery and then all
of a sudden it was like abakery, a restaurant and a
brewery and it was like sixthousand square feet and
although there was certainly alot of lessons and a lot of fun
and a lot of growth with that,it was a lot um right, and so
(07:23):
there was a lot of good and badwith that side of the growth.
However, the bakery that wasinside the restaurant was very
successful and we sold cookiesas one of the items on our
bakery menu.
So, after a really, reallytough season, I was looking at
our P-Mix to see what are weselling.
(07:43):
What do we need to go hard onthis winter?
What are our opportunities?
Because we can't have anotherwinter like we did last winter.
Like we're baked in Iowa, itcan get nasty here and that can
really affect small business.
So our top selling item in theentire building was a chocolate
chip cookie, and that sparkedthe idea for cookies and dreams,
(08:07):
and I came up with a menu of 12cookies, all different kinds
and flavors.
Some were filled, some were notfilled.
Um launched that in January 2020and the rest is history.
Honestly, it it took off veryquickly and um, um and so the
journey was, you know, to getfrom the dream of like I want to
(08:29):
bake for a living to actuallyhaving a couple of bakeries
employees, you know, sellingnationwide it.
I mean, it was all over theplace, ups and downs and
sideways, and so those types ofjourneys I I think are not
linear and while some people maylook and have looked at Cookies
and Dreams and seen anovernight success because it was
(08:50):
very quick.
It certainly was not.
So I certainly advise people toalways look at that.
The journey is never linear andit's never overnight, despite
what it may seem.
Julie (09:02):
It's so true.
It's so true because they seethat moment of success, but not
all of the things and like with,in your case, the different
iterations of a bakery that ledto you actually having this
business at this at that exacttime.
So I'm also interested because,obviously, January of 2020 was
an interesting time tounknowingly be starting a
(09:26):
business and the fact that youdecided to ship your cookies all
across the United States.
Was that something you decidedbecause of the pandemic, or was
it before that, when you startedthe business, that you decided
you would want to have that kindof an e-commerce arm?
Steph (09:44):
It was actually it was something we wanted to do, or I
wanted to do, but I wanted togauge local interest first and
we had a platform with therestaurant, which we were
fortunate to have.
But you know, I think that thatpeople could find that platform
on local farmers markets anddoing pop-ups.
I think it's really importantto test your idea before you
(10:05):
invest you know, a hundred hoursinto creating a website.
You need people to come to thewebsite.
Like having a website is great,but people need to actually
visit it.
So the goal was always to doe-commerce, but we really needed
to like, get our ducks in orderand gauge interest.
What's going to sell, what'sgoing to resonate, how is this
(10:29):
going to work logistically first, and so it kind of coincided
with COVID in a really uniqueway, just by happenstance.
But we felt like we needed totest it on a retail or local
basis first.
Julie (10:45):
Yeah, I always think it's so interesting how, like, how
luck and circumstances play intokind of what happens for you as
you go down those paths right,and so the fact that you thought
about shipping at all um andand looked to, you know, cookies
is a more durable product.
(11:06):
There's some baked goods thatwould be a lot harder to ship,
like all of those kinds ofthings, like the sort of like
luck that pairs with the hardwork, taking the opportunities
and then being able to actuallycapitalize and grow because you
have, you know, positionedyourself well.
Steph (11:27):
Yeah, i t's never like a single approach, like you
testing and getting feedback.
It not only helps you as yourbusiness, but it helps create
that community that I think anybusiness needs to be successful,
because people don't just wantto buy from a brand anymore,
they want to buy from a person,they want to know your story,
and so and I think we're seeingmore of that and that's becoming
more common, which is greatbecause it shows people that it
(11:50):
can be done and it shows peoplethat it's not just all like
rainbow sprinkles and chocolatechips, like this is.
This is hard and there's a lotof bumps in the road.
So I'm I'm really excited tosee a lot more brands and a lot
more people kind of showingbehind the scenes and sharing
their story of you know, this iswhy we're doing it.
(12:10):
This is what it looks like.
You know, this is when we cried, this is when we laughed, all
of those things.
Julie (12:17):
And we did cry.
We might not tell you about itall the time, but we did.
Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
I think it's interesting,though, because the idea of yeah
, telling that story you're notjust trying to sell a product
you're trying to like be real.
And one of the risks, I think,in entrepreneurship is you start
(12:38):
a business because you lovesomething and then you end up
like not loving it as muchbecause the reality of business
you know, cookies are great, butit's a business like anything
else and you have problems andchallenges and things you
probably don't like about it,which is totally normal, but
sometimes, when it's aboutsomething you love, it can be
hard.
Steph (12:57):
Yeah, and that's a really good point, because I think, as
entrepreneurs, we should bepassionate about what we're
spending so much time working on.
And that can be a tough thingas a business owner, because,
you know, I bake or I makecookies because I love it, but
there's so many parts of it thatI don't love.
And so that's a great point,because I think, as leaders and
(13:21):
business owners, you almost haveto structure your job
intentionally to where you stillhave time to do the things that
you love.
Otherwise, you're just going toget burnt out, you're not going
to love it anymore and thebusiness is going to run you
rather than the other way around.
You have to set up processesand systems in your team to do
things so that you can still dowhat you love, because without
(13:43):
you, you know, of course, thebusiness wouldn't exist, but but
you need.
You need to be able to do thatfor yourself.
Julie (13:52):
Well, it's like the, the, the, the two-sidedness of
without you, the businesswouldn't exist, but it needs to
be able to exist without you.
Like the two sides of that coinare so interesting.
Steph (14:04):
Yes, yeah it's, and that's a tough one, because you,
on one hand, you love it youwouldn't have started it if you
didn't and so you want to putyourself in the business.
But at the same time, as aleader and a smart business
owner, you have to set up thosesystems and processes to where
it can run independently.
And that kind of goes back tolike why are you starting this
(14:27):
business?
Are you starting a job?
Are you starting something thatyou want to be a legacy for,
maybe your children?
Are you starting it because youwant to sell it someday?
Most people don't think aboutlike.
I think in business class theyalways go over.
This is how you make a businessplan and you have to go over
your exit plan.
And everybody's like why, whydo I need to talk about my exit
(14:47):
plan?
But you do, because itstructures how you're going to
run your business and how youcreate it.
So that's something that Ithink a lot of us are guilty of
overlooking.
Julie (15:00):
Well, and even things like are you able to pay
yourself, you know, a wage thatwould be comparable to hiring an
outsider to do the job thatyou're doing?
Steph (15:09):
Right, yeah, and what's the payoff?
So, like, if I hire somebody todo this job, what does that
free me up to do?
Does it free me up to createmore revenue, because that's
that's why we're all here, right, like, we want to grow.
So they're not easy answers to,to to work on and to figure out
(15:31):
, um, as entrepreneurs, butthose are, I think, some of the
skill sets that aren't talkedabout nearly enough.
Yeah, um, you know we, we hearabout your business plan and
marketing and the latest trendson Instagram or TikTok.
Um, but some of those questionsare the ones that I think need
(15:53):
to be a little bit more focusedon.
(16:21):
Oh, absolutely so.
At that point, scaling you haveno choice but to create those
systems and processes, and Ithink having a solid team from
the get-go is what's going toallow you to do that, because
there's a certain point whereyou cannot do all of the jobs
and your team needs to help youcreate some of those systems and
(16:43):
processes and help you documentthem, because you cannot be
good at everything.
So I am a big advocate in thisand I haven't always done this,
but, um, you need to hire slowand fire fast, because that is
going to make or break yourbusiness from day one.
Um, and those are some of themistakes that we made in the
(17:05):
very beginning, where we werejust hiring bodies because we
needed people and they ended upbeing very detrimental to the
business.
So that's something where youneed to hire a good team from
the get-go.
Even if it takes a little bitlonger, you're going to grow
faster at the end of the daybecause you have the right
people in place.
Julie (17:27):
Yeah, and now, often you know growth and scaling up is a
bumpy process.
You have to try things andlearn from them and you know you
feel like you're doing thedance of two or three steps
forward and five steps back, andtwo or three steps forward and
one step back.
And what has that been like foryou as you've been growing the
business?
Steph (17:46):
Yeah, so we actually grew to some other locations.
We have two locations now andwe ship nationwide, but at one
point we had, I think, fivelocations and that was just we
were not ready for the growth.
It happened incredibly fast andwe didn't have the right people
(18:08):
in place, and so it just itjust fell apart.
It just did not not work.
And so we've we scaled backrather quickly, honestly, kind
of like brought things back tocenter and have been stabilizing
and then growing what we havewhere we already have the
infrastructure in place for like, for example, we do some
(18:30):
wholesaling and some fundraisingand then the e-commerce, and so
we already have thatinfrastructure in place.
And so that's our areas ofgrowth for right now, while
we're still trying to stabilizeand try to figure out our next
move.
In the beginning it was likelet's do everything all at once
(18:52):
and be all of the things to allof the people, and it just it
was not good.
I feel like a lot of people sayone of the easiest ways to fail
is to grow too quickly, andwe've been very fortunate that
we did not succumb to that,because it was a very quick,
unstable, irresponsible type ofgrowth.
(19:14):
So, um, we learned a lot inthat process and I think that's
what has allowed us to stabilizeand still continue that growth,
but in a smarter way, because alot of people they see growth
and they think more locations,more products.
But that's not the case.
(19:34):
Like what do you have in placecurrently that you can grow,
that you already have theinfrastructure.
You don't need a lot ofadditional investment or team
members or anything you have tolike.
I think a very strong skill setfor entrepreneurs is their
scrappiness, just like straightscrappiness.
You have to look at what youropportunities are here before
(20:00):
you want to go big, big, big,and there's also a lot of value,
I think, in.
You know, and this isn't foreverybody.
Some people do want to be thebiggest, but we want to be the
best.
So that's where we're at, andso we're still certainly a good
size and and have been able togrow, but we're going to grow a
(20:21):
lot smarter moving forward.
Julie (20:25):
Well, it is not dissimilar to the higher slow
fire fast.
You know, it's the, it's thegrow with a bunch of
thoughtfulness about it anddon't be afraid to pull back
when the path doesn't look likeit's quite the right one
Steph (20:39):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Um, playing the long game,because that's you know, you
could easily take a look at, atwhat happened and us opening a
bunch of locations and thenclosing them and scaling them
back as a failure.
But it's really just aredirection, um, and kind of
getting back to who do we wantto be?
(21:00):
Um, and and there was a lot ofpain with that there was a lot
of removal of people that werenot good for the business, um,
which was painful and anddifficult.
But you know what's your goal?
And that kind of goes back tooriginally, like creating that
business plan who do you want tobe?
(21:20):
And what's your plan here?
Like, do you want just a job?
Do you want a legacy?
Do you want to sell?
What do you want to do here?
Is it short-term, long-term, doyou want to get acquired?
Right?
So, being clear on on that andthat's not to say that can't
change along the way, but you,you need to look at the, at the
long game when you decide youwant to scale for sure.
Julie (21:44):
Yeah, yeah, and really figuring out, I think too, like
you've got, you've got to takethe chances, so, so what are the
right chances to take?
Cause there's like a point whereyou're like I think I did the
wrong thing, so how do you havethat assessment for did?
Am I just scared?
Is it really the wrong thing?
Like, how do you determinethose different pieces Right?
(22:06):
Because I think there are thosemoments where you're like I
feel like, oh my God, thebottom's falling out, but really
you're doing the right thing,versus understanding that you do
need to pull back and makechanges.
Steph (22:18):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's a great point too,because I think, as business
owners, when you're trying togrow and trying to scale, you're
always going to feel likeyou're drowning, like know that,
that's normal.
Number one.
Um, if you're, if you don't feellike you're drowning, then you
know..
You're about to.
(22:39):
Yeah so, um, that that's normal, um, but that kind of
brings in another point ofhaving a strong support system
and mentors that are outside ofyour business that can offer you
advice, because you can't readthe label when you're inside the
jar and so you need people fromthe outside looking in to help
(23:02):
advise you.
And it's a lot like raisingchildren.
It takes a village.
So, um, I have a two and a halfyear old at home and I feel
like business ownership andraising a toddler has a lot of
similarities.
You know, you always feel likeyou're drowning, you don't feel
like you're getting any sleep,you know you're not qualified to
(23:25):
do what you're doing exactly.
Julie (23:27):
Yes, a lot like motherhood, for sure.
Steph (23:29):
Yeah, so having having that support system and some
really good mentors is super,super valuable, and I know that
there's resources out therethrough various small business
organizations, but it could bejust friends and people that you
find through networking, familymembers and stuff, just people
(23:52):
that can give you advice, thatare not in it.
Julie (23:57):
It's that balance of, like, people who have more
experience than you, people whohave different experience than
you, people who just look atthings differently.
Steph (24:07):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's.
It takes a village, whetheryou're running a business or
raising children.
It's not something that you cando on your own.
In some entrepreneurs, I thinkwe can be very hyper independent
, right, and that can be it's.
It can be hard to ask for help,so, but it's, it's absolutely
(24:28):
necessary.
You, you can't do it alone.
Julie (24:31):
Yeah.
Well, and I think the idea thatyou've got and the mission
(24:54):
you've got to be the best.
Not the biggest.
But that feels very customerfocused, and value focused for
you, in terms of how you'regoing to the market.
Steph (24:55):
And we, actually I'm a stickler and we say guests and
not customers, because customersimplies the transactional and a
guest is somebody that iscoming into our home and we are
providing them with hospitality,you know, think of it as
somebody that's coming into yourhome and you just bake them a
fresh batch of chocolate chipcookies and you know you
wouldn't just expect them to belike, okay, give me what you
(25:17):
have and I will give you thecookies.
It's more of a hospitality andconnection which really comes
back to creating that communityof people, because that's just
you.
You have to.
You, you need people that aregoing to fight for you and show
up for you.
And as businesses, sometimes youmake mistakes, that's, that's a
(25:40):
given.
But when you have thatcommunity surrounding you, then
it, it softens that just just alittle bit.
So so yeah, I'm, I'm a bit of astickler in within the business
of we say guests instead ofcustomers, because it truly is,
especially with baked goods.
You know it's, it's we don'twant it to be transactional at
(26:03):
all.
Julie (26:04):
Right, well, and that's sort of what you talked about
earlier of.
You know it's the wedding andthen the baby shower and then
the baby's first birthday and,like you, are creating those
moments with people where yourcookies are showing up at
important times in their lives.
Steph (26:20):
Absolutely, and that's just it.
Like just this week we gotinvited to somebody's wedding,
which was so fun and it justmeans so much to us that we can
play a role in people's lives.
And you know I always say thatwe make cookies but we don't
sell cookies, it's we sell.
(26:42):
We sell that.
We sell the people inviting usto our their wedding because
we've played an important rolein their love story and in their
lives.
And you know we have a guestthat is such a big fan of ours
it's like he showed me his phoneand all of his pictures are
like our cookies and he bringsthem to everybody he knows and
(27:05):
because it creates joy for himto share the cookies, um, just
like it creates joy for us toshare the cookies.
Julie (27:12):
I think that's so interesting though, though, that
the spreading joy, because it'slike such a different I mean
when you think you shipnationwide like it's joy showing
up on people's front porchesand in the you know lobbies of
apartment buildings and all ofthe different places those
people live who are orderingfrom you.
(28:01):
What do you see for the nextcouple of years?
Steph (28:04):
That's a great question.
So right now, for this year,we're really going to be working
on growing our e-commerce sideof the business, along with our
fundraising.
So with our fundraising, weoffer a couple different options
, but one of them is like hinkGirl Scout cookies, but with our
(28:25):
cookies.
So we help support schools andcharities and organizations in
that way and it really helps usbe a part of the community, and
we'd like to turn that intoonline as well for e-commerce.
Right now we just do it locally, but we'd like to be able to
offer that nationwide, just toexpand that reach.
(28:47):
And we would love to expand toanother location, probably not
this year, but maybe in a yearor two, once we're able to do a
little bit more stabilizing andjust deciding on where that is.
I'm a big advocate for owningyour backyard before you go.
(29:07):
So whether that's still in therealm of our backyard here in
Iowa or in the Midwest, we'llhave to see.
But for right now, we reallywant to focus on the things that
we currently already have theinfrastructure in place for,
like e-commerce, likefundraising.
We do a fair amount ofwholesaling, so that's something
(29:30):
that we'd like to take a deeper, dive into and then decide what
is the next step in terms of alarger retail footprint.
Julie (29:40):
Yeah, and I think I mean I think it's really interesting.
You know the fundraising ideaas somebody who had a big
fundraising part of my businesswhen we had Mabel's Labels.
Fundraising was a big piece ofwhat we did and it's nice to be
able to give back toorganizations that are working
in different communities.
Steph (29:58):
Yes, absolutely, and we do a lot of schools, which is
great, and it's it.
When the kids are doing thecookie sales.
It offers so much value to themtoo, because they're getting
out there and they're, they'rehustling and they're trying to
raise money for their schools,for a trip or for, you know band
instruments or whatever ithappens to be, and so it's a big
(30:22):
ripple effect of what all ofthe good that can come out of
that.
Julie (30:28):
Yeah, good.
Well, I'm really excited to seewhere Cookies and Dreams goes
and grows for you next, Steph,and I hope that people all
across the US find you for thee-commerce and get some of your
delicious cookies delivered totheir front porch.
And thank you for joining metoday.
Steph (30:47):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Julie (30:49):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
podcast platform so you won'tmiss any episodes.
Figure 8 isn't just a podcast.
It's a way of seeing the BigGorgeous Goals of women
entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
(31:10):
book Big Gorgeous Goals onAmazon, anywhere you might live.
For more about my growth andleadership training programs,
visit www.
juliellis.
ca to see how we might worktogether.
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
(31:31):
Once again, that's www.
julieellis.
ca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure 8.
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