September 18, 2025 • 32 mins
Julie's brand new Big Gorgeous Goals: Official Workbook can be ordered now! Grab your copy.
Jennifer Devine shares her journey from controller at a commercial real estate development firm to owner of an accounting and technology solutions business that provides outsourced accounting services to clients.
Jennifer Devine is a highly accomplished Certified Public Accountant (CPA) with over 25 years of experience in the accounting and accounting software industry. She founded Devine Consulting in 2011, merging her expertise in accounting with her passion for software. A graduate of the Mays School of Business at Texas A&M University, Jennifer earned a Bachelor of Business Administration in Accounting in 1996 and obtained her CPA license in 2000.
With a diverse background that includes serving as the Controller for a prominent international commercial real estate firm, Jennifer is known for her innovative approach to accounting. Notably, she has leveraged her in-depth understanding of software to streamline multi-currency reporting systems, resulting in significant cost savings for her clients.
Jennifer is dedicated to providing personalized customer service and has been recognized for her contributions with numerous accolades, including the Aggie 100. Her commitment to breaking the typical accountant stereotype and embracing new strategies to deliver added value to her clients is a testament to her entrepreneurial spirit and unwavering dedication to her craft.
You can connect with Jennifer on her website or LinkedIn.
You can connect with Julie on LinkedIn or Instagram.
Find Julie's writing at her blog or by ordering her book Big Gorgeous Goals and the brand new official companion workbook!
What did you think of this conversation? We'd love if you'd rate or review our show!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Julie (00:04):
Welcome to Figure 8, where we feature inspiring
stories of women entrepreneurswho have grown their businesses
to seven and eight figuresrevenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, julie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book BigGorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure 8.
(01:08):
Today, I am joined by JenniferDevine.
Jennifer is working in thefield of accounting and she has
a business that she purchased in2011, an accounting and
technology solutions business.
Before that, she worked as acontroller for a commercial real
estate development firm and hadlots of interesting and diverse
(01:31):
experience, and today we'regoing to dive into all kinds of
things about accounting and thethings that you need, and how
she's grown her own businessusing teams from abroad as well
as teams from locally, and I'mreally excited to talk to you
today.
Thanks, Jennifer, for joiningme.
Jennifer (01:52):
Thanks for having me, Julie.
Julie (01:54):
So how did you end up, you know, in the commercial real
estate side of accounting?
Jennifer (02:02):
Well, actually it's kind of a funny story.
Actually I had been looking fora new position and I always
like to tell people this just ingeneral because I was on
vacation with my family.
But I was looking for a job, Ihad a recruiter and she had
reached out to me on vacationand said oh, I got this great
(02:23):
job interview for you.
Um, I want you to set it up.
It's gonna be this day and thistime.
And then I didn't hear from heragain and then I had the like
decision to make do I go show upfor this interview that I don't
really know, that I for surehave, because she didn't confirm
it, or do I not show up to aninterview I might have like?
So I really grappled with that.
(02:44):
So I showed up for an interviewI didn't have and, um, I got
the job.
So there you go.
They interviewed me, anyways,and I love it.
Julie (02:58):
So you showed up and they were like, uh, you know, looked
through the calendar and werelike no yeah, and I said, well,
I'm really sorry I couldn't geta hold.
Jennifer (03:03):
The recruiter and I didn't want to not show up for
an interview I had, and she'slike, that's okay, I'll go ahead
and interview.
Julie (03:10):
And then you got the job.
Jennifer (03:11):
I got the job, and so they um, I was the controller
for their development.
They had in Cabo San Lucas.
They were building verybeautiful villas up the side of
a mountain.
That's how I got there.
Julie (03:26):
that's fantastic, um and and kind of interesting, feels
kind of like you know they'redoing kind of an interesting
project and yep, yep, there's alittle bit of excitement in that
, and so did you stay workingfor them for a long time
Jennifer (03:40):
Yes, I worked there for I think 11 years in total.
They were like a family to me.
One of my best friends stillworks there and I just went to
her son's wedding this weekend.
So that tells you a lot.
But it was really hard to leavethere.
But you know, I had gotten alittle bit bored.
I sort of figured it all out,had it really organized and it
(04:02):
was just kind of time to dosomething new.
But yeah, I was there a reallylong time.
Julie (04:07):
Yep, and so how did you get started in what you're doing
right now?
Did you buy it right away ordid you start building up some
things on your own first?
Jennifer (04:17):
No, so so that's also very interesting.
So we had a software,accounting software called
Solomon that we utilized at thecompany I worked for and we had
this girl that came and sheconsulted on the software.
It's all she did and she hadnot many times it talked to me
about working for her and I wasjust like I asked her, like I
have very young kids, I I justcan't just jump Right so she
(04:42):
could, and she wouldn't offer melike a real solution, like oh,
I'd give you so much, x amountof hours a week, or like
anything like that.
So I was like I can't do that.
And then one day she walked inand she said, well, would you be
interested in buying mybusiness?
And I thought I don't know,maybe because I'm in a position
where I could take a risk, atleast a calculated risk, right?
(05:04):
So all in all, I did end upbuying her business and that
business was just consulting onthat software.
And what I realized while I waspursuing that was that I didn't
love the aspect of the projectLike you didn't necessarily know
what was coming next and I onlyhad, you know, 10 to 12 clients
(05:24):
and I was just not sure whattomorrow would bring.
So at that point I startedbuilding up what I would
consider more bookkeepingbusiness.
My sister came to work for meand she sort of started in that
realm and we kind of grew itfrom there.
So really what I bought andwhat it is today is completely
different.
Julie (05:40):
Right yeah, which I think often happens when you buy a
business.
Jennifer (05:45):
It's you know, but I bought another company name.
(06:11):
And unfortunately she decided totake some of my clients back,
and so that was sort of apivotal moment in business where
I said what are we going to donext?
So for people out there I mean,yes, we could go after her, yes
, I could do those things, butit really wasn't going to
advance me further by living inthe past of it.
So we started working with someother softwares and I just
chose a different route.
Julie (06:30):
Yeah, I think that really lands with me because I mean,
when we started our business, wehad a competitor who came on
the market pretty fast after usand, you know, big chunks of our
website were just straight upcopied over and we, you know,
did get her to change that.
But it is this piece of like.
How much time do you want tospend like fighting something
(06:55):
versus figuring out how toreally start growing your
business and taking it in a newdirection, because that there's
only so much of you to giveright, absolutely when you want
to put your energy and where youwant to end up.
Jennifer (07:08):
Well, and that was what's so hard right.
There's also a software that Iknew at the time.
That was it's like nobody usesit anymore.
Just to give you an examplelike nobody's buying it.
It's maybe some people stillhave it, but it's very, very
rare Like it was going to goaway.
So it wasn't going to do me alot of good to focus my effort
on that.
My effort was better focused onsomething that was new and
(07:29):
innovative.
Julie (07:31):
Yes, yeah, and so that's how you sort of started
branching out.
You were selling up yoursoftwares and doing other things
, and where did things go fromthere?
Jennifer (07:41):
So we you know, we really actually we went to this
conference, my sister and I andshe still works with me, you
know, we went to this conferencefor this new software and we
literally were like tears inheadlights, right, like we're
going to implement this.
I'm going to have to say, likeI am, we are not ready for this.
And we ended up meeting somegentlemen that were also at the
(08:05):
conference that had a firm thatsold software and through that
we partnered up, so if we didhave an opportunity to sell the
software, we would sell itthrough them, and we still work
with them to today.
But we became what they callaccounting partners and so we
took it in a different directionand that sort of really
(08:26):
kickstarted us being stoppingbeing just bookkeepers and
becoming more outsourcedaccountants, and it gave us this
opportunity to level up ourgame too.
And so you know, it's funny howthe things will shape you and
turn you in a differentdirection, but it all has worked
out fabulously.
I mean, obviously, bumps in theroad, that's all I mean.
Julie (08:46):
So obviously, and we can talk about some of those but
thinking about, like, when youthink about the shift you made
from being a bookkeeping firm tobeing outsourced accounting,
what were some of the differentthings you were doing for
clients in in as an outsourcedaccountant?
Jennifer (09:04):
Well, interestingly enough, I think we were all.
We were always providing thatlevel of service, so we just
weren't calling it that either.
Because I came from abackground in this real estate
development right where I wasproviding that service and as I
moved forward in my career Ithought I'm really doing what I
was doing there just for others.
Julie (09:24):
Right, so now you're giving it.
So it's more advice giving andmore planning as opposed to just
so yeah, and it depends.
Jennifer (09:31):
But there's also a little bit more of like.
You know, I think people view Iand I would describe
bookkeepers like they're goingto get the transactions and
they're going to pay the bills.
Things are going to get done.
But if you want to use yourfinancials to tell a story about
your business or to be able tolearn from your business, you
need to take it to another level, and a bookkeeper isn't going
(09:51):
to necessarily do that for you.
You might get lucky.
There are, you know, there aresome great book keepers.
I don't want to, but, like youknow, we were going to provide,
yes, and we can take it level upand then help you project and
stuff like that.
But just sometimes, you know,clients need to have an
understanding of what really andhow they're doing in their
business and that's where we arehelping to provide for them.
Julie (10:14):
Yeah, which makes a lot of sense, and I think that, like
from the side of so you knowyou're an entrepreneur and also
an accountant, but forentrepreneurs who are not
accountants, it's one of themost difficult places to find
the kind of quality help andadvice that people really need
when they're growing businesses.
Jennifer (10:35):
Yes, and a lot of times people don't always find
value in it.
They don't think there's valuein it.
Right, it's just something theyhave to get done so they can
pay their taxes.
Julie (10:43):
Right, I got to file the forms and pay right in a check,
basically yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so how have you found thesort of levelling up that's
happened, the kind of changesyou've had to make as you've
grown this business?
Jennifer (10:59):
So I think it's been such an interesting ride.
You mentioned earlier inregards to outsourcing some
employees overseas and we triedthat like a few years ago and I
would say we failed prettymiserably.
Right it just, it just didn'twork.
Part of the problem we didn'thave like a set person and it's
(11:23):
like we went through threepeople and I'm like we can't
keep retraining someone.
Right Like that's such a bigpart of business is like the
losing and the coming and goingof people per se.
Right Like you're alwaysretraining and it's like you
just never can get to that nextstep if you're just keep
retraining and retraining.
So it's like finding that sweetspot of getting those people
who are going to stick with youto help level you up, which is
(11:49):
one of my struggles.
Julie (11:52):
And like managing a virtual team across a lot of
time zones is definitelychallenging.
Jennifer (11:56):
Well, what's really worked for us from that
perspective is they work on ourtime zone, so it's nighttime for
them, them, but they workduring our hours, so they're
still like.
We brought them in as part ofthe team together.
So we try to.
You know, we have a.
One thing that's worked reallywell for us is we have a daily
meeting.
We all get together and we allhave a conversation once a day,
(12:17):
and, you know, because we wantthem to feel like part of the
team, like even though they'reremote, and it helps that we
have four of them there and notjust one.
Julie (12:27):
Yes, and so the first time you did this, it did not
work out very well.
What do you feel like isdifferent this time?
Because now you have fourpeople on your team that are
working overseas.
Jennifer (12:37):
Well, one, I think the company we worked with.
They had a developed plan andhow you go about it.
I had been in an organizationwith a bunch of other
accountants who had used thiscompany before, and you know
some of them had been successfulwith it.
But I learned from theirmistakes other people's mistakes
who maybe hadn't beensuccessful.
So I listened to all of thosethings and we went into it in a
(12:59):
specific direction and how wewere going to go about it, and I
think that helped.
We were more prepared and wereally knew we wanted to at
least have two of them, so thatthey had each other, and so we
didn't get two.
At first we did get one person,but she's still with us and
she's been working outfabulously and gotten promoted,
(13:22):
and so we were then able to addanother one in, and so that's
been great, and they are thereand we have flown over and seen
them.
So I think that's important toois really getting to know them,
and just from going to see themhas really leveled them up too.
They seem less hesitant to askthe questions.
Julie (13:41):
Well, and it is one of the things, though, right about,
like the accounting industry asa whole, is that there's a
certain amount of I don't knowif commoditization is the right
word, but, like back to yourkind of comments about not
everybody sees value in it, theysee it as a function.
They need to file theirpaperwork and that sort of thing
(14:01):
, and so, like getting the rightprice for value and and having
the right team to be able todeliver, that is definitely got
to be a challenge.
Jennifer (14:10):
Well it is, and the hard part is is like what people
want to pay us about.
All my employees worked hereLike we, just we wouldn't find
them like there.
It's hard, that's a difficultplace to be.
Julie (14:22):
Yeah, and so now, how do you feel like you have evolved
as a leader over the?
So it was 2011 that you boughtthat business, and here we are.
You're kind of 15 years, almost, almost, are we.
You know?
We're getting so close, so tellme about what that's been like
for you as the leader.
Jennifer (14:42):
Well, you know, from the beginning, in the beginning,
I was doing all the work rightLike, or even with my sister
here she's a leader and the oneemployee.
And then I added my sister rightand you know, like she's still
with me today, but like I wasstill doing a lot of the work,
like I was really in the depthsof it, and so it was this really
(15:03):
hard balance of how do I getout there and find more clients
but still get all of the workdone, and you can't stop doing
marketing and networking anddoing those things to get the
work done.
So it was a constant juggleright and over time that has
lessened because I've been ableto put myself in a place where
(15:23):
most of the time I don't have todo the client work and I'm able
to really work on the businessand do work.
You know focus on marketing orsales or things that help the
business, or you know employeetraining or other things that
are important for them and notjust work focused on help.
(15:44):
You know working on the clientsand I think that's really
important as you grow.
Julie (15:48):
Yeah, and what was it like?
I mean, you hired your sister,but then how did you start
really really extractingyourself?
Jennifer (15:57):
You know, if I'm being honest with you, I don't even
know how it happened.
I just knew it needed to happen.
I think you know I I hired, soshe works with me and she's done
a lot of work and she's had alot of growth as well.
But then at one point I didhire an accounting director and
that really helped me at leastease out of some of it.
You know, unfortunately I'm ina position right now where I've
(16:19):
had to jump back in in some ways, but I'm not a full-time client
person right Even now, so thatstill helps.
Julie (16:28):
Yes, well, and I mean, I think that is the thing about
entrepreneurship is the buck isstopping on your desk and
ultimately, you know if it, ifthings are, if you're struggling
because you have some turnover,then it can end up back with
you.
Yes, and that's the part nowthat I'm working on how does
(16:49):
yeah, Well, that's where you'relike I am not the right person
for this.
Jennifer (16:53):
It's really funny, like well, I mean, it's funny.
I think you know I've beentalking to some people like
there's this, this aspect of myjob that I'm not proficient in
right.
Like there's a marketing aspectwhere I have typically people
who help me with social and doall those things I'm not
proficient but I'm superproficient with accounting so I
can jump in and it comes reallynaturally to me.
So if I have to do something,I'd rather do that.
Julie (17:17):
Yes, but it is that it leaves you, though, as an
entrepreneur, as an entrepreneur, feeling a bit vulnerable,
right, because there arefunctions that you need to have
that you cannot fill in for.
Jennifer (17:31):
That's, yes, very, very true.
Like I'm just not good at it.
I'm not a creative person.
I mean, I can be creative froman accounting aspect, but I'm
not a creative in, like,designing something that looks
pretty.
Or I'm bad with words, I'mgreat with numbers.
Like, if I have to writesomething, it's going to take me
forever to write it.
Julie (17:53):
Yeah, definitely, definitely Well, and that's the
I mean.
I think, though, you've usedyour creativity to look at
circumstances to build yourbusiness, like all the different
ways that the creativity hasplayed right.
Jennifer (18:10):
Yes, there's that.
There's different types ofcreativity.
I would say right, and I'm goodin some respects.
I have great ideas At least Ithink I do.
But I have all these ideas, butI'm really good with having
someone who helps me really pushthose out there and get them
implemented.
I can come up with them, but amI necessarily the best person
to put them out in the world?
Julie (18:32):
Yeah, and how do you build like the?
You know, bring the ideas andfigure out which ones you should
implement and which ones tokind of leave behind Right.
Figure out which ones youshould implement and which ones
to kind of leave behind Right,yeah, yeah.
(18:53):
And so what is what's kind ofnext?
Are you you've kind ofstabilized now right?
I mean trying to mitigateturnover we talked about.
That's obviously a bigchallenge and one that never
ends Right.
And it's also hard because Ithink as a small business, you
know, you can't reallynecessarily offer somebody like
lifetime career path kind ofjobs.
Jennifer (19:12):
Well, no, interesting.
I always tell people herethough it's like if this job is
kind of what you make of it andyou can help with like, you
don't have to sell to help withgrowth you can help with by with
growth by providing a reallygood service to the clients that
we do have and like andleveling up and being curious
Like that's my new term for thisyear is like being curious, ask
(19:33):
questions, try new things, like, I mean, chat.
Gpt still is relatively new andpeople have dabbled in it, but
you know, the other day I wastrying to train myself.
What else can we use it for?
I hear these things people aredoing and we got to figure
something out.
We have to stay up to date.
Julie (19:50):
Well, and with AI, like the thing that I think with that
is, we all need to figure outhow we're going to use it,
because if we just say, well,I'm just going to wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait, it'smoving so fast that it'll just
leapfrog right over us
Jennifer (20:04):
Absolutely.
You know we don't, we don'thave to be the first to do
everything, but we certainlydon't want to be the last.
Julie (20:09):
e, and even I mean I've heard people talking about using
ai for bookkeeping, which iskind of interesting because
obviously you you will stillneed human intervention for
things like you talk about, likeinterpretation.
Interpretation of things and howyou work with the rules to
(20:30):
present things Like those kindsof things are probably human
critical thinking things, butthose transactions that are just
happening, like that's a reallyinteresting idea.
Jennifer (20:46):
And those are already, I mean, a little inherent in a
lot of the accounting systemsalready, where you can set
things up and they will justflow and happen.
It's not quite there yet inthat respect, you know, because
it gets it wrong lots of times,but even though we do, we have
to adapt, and being anaccountant is a lot less of
debits and credits, as it usedto be, and a lot more on
(21:06):
understanding the technology andhow it works.
Julie (21:08):
Yes, well, and yeah, and I guess that's something for
like what should you know anentrepreneur who wants to hire
somebody like you, a companylike yours?
Like what is it that theyshould look for?
Jennifer (21:24):
Well, they really should.
I mean, I tell this to myclients like we want to be part
of your team.
It's not like, yes, we'reoutsourced, but that doesn't
mean we.
You shouldn't think of us whenyou have a question about
something or need somethingadditional.
Right, you know it's hard, it'sa hard space sometimes because
we're providing a specificservice for what you're paying
for, but that doesn't mean wecan't add on to that or help you
(21:48):
with something additional whenit comes along.
You know, but if somebody'sjust your bookkeeper or they
don't pick up the phone when youcall them, like those are,
those are sure signs that it'snot really working?
Julie (22:11):
Yeah, you want the team that you're building um.
Are you fully remote or do youhave an office?
Jennifer (22:19):
So we yeah, we do have an office, um, we're, we're one
day at home right now, you know, and I've dabbled in, what do
we do next, cause our lease iscoming up Um, and what makes the
most sense.
It's interesting Cause I can.
I can see both sides ofeverything, but I also watch and
see how people learn, and I dothink being around others and
(22:43):
overhearing things does playinto learning, and I hope that
people will recognize that,because it's really hard.
People are going to be a lotmore hesitant to message you or
ask you a question over thecomputer.
Now, they're not saying thateverybody will or they will, but
it has to have more intention.
I can't just overhear somebodytalking which I do and go oh no,
(23:08):
no, no, no, no, no, no, that'snot no, no, no.
Let me tell you how to do that.
Like so I can't, I can't, evenI can't.
I don't have the opportunity tocorrect a mistake before it
happens, because I just hearsomething.
Julie (23:19):
But yeah, or or I think also the idea, like I do think
in accounting especially likehow will people understand how
to think beyond a contained setof rules if they never actually
have any coaching or see,anybody doing that.
Jennifer (23:38):
yeah, it's, and it's hard like so.
I think with more remote, ithas to be more intense.
You have to have a systematicway to see if people are getting
things done.
And it's harder, it's harder, Ithink it's harder to manage.
Julie (23:54):
Oh, yes, no question, it's harder to manage.
Yeah, yeah, yes, but it isinteresting because I've had
another somebody I know talk tome about accountants who are
going into audit practices andhow, you know, with the pandemic
they stopped having kind of theaudit room mentality where
(24:16):
everybody would gather and thatthey found that their young
accountants were not learning asmuch.
Jennifer (24:22):
I think that's very, very true.
And then also you add on to thefact that people are changing
jobs more frequently than theyused to.
I don't think they're reallydeveloping that base level of
knowledge that we got theopportunity to do when we were
younger.
Like, I just think it's hard.
Julie (24:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's a different, just a different job
market and a different world.
In that way, I think yeah,agreed, yeah, and so what kind
of culture are you trying tobuild in terms of how you're,
how you're bringing young peopleup and like education and
trying to hang on to and givethem opportunities, the people
(25:01):
that you know?
Jennifer (25:02):
We are trying to build a culture here.
You know we are small, so youknow it feels more like a family
.
You know I want people to feellike they're at home here, that
it's not just a job they enjoy,like you hate going to your job,
right, who wants to go?
But you know they can, thatthey enjoy it.
But then you know, I am reallyfocused on how do we train
people, because you can tellpeople to watch videos all day,
(25:23):
but that doesn't really trainthem on how to actually do
different things.
So once a month we have amonthly meeting and I do some
form of a training exercise inthat meeting for them, just more
focused on things we do and howwe do it too, so that they can
kind of learn that aspect of it.
Also, you know, like includingpeople on meetings that they may
(25:46):
not have had opportunities tobe part of, just even if it's
like you don't have to sayanything, just listen, so you
can learn from being on thosemeetings with clients all the
different ways of bringingpeople along.
Yes, yes, and also, like youknow, it's a skill to learn how
to deal with different types ofpeople.
(26:06):
People have differentpersonalities and you know, you
know something I always tellpeople when you come here it's a
skill to learn how to deal withdifferent types of people.
People have differentpersonalities and you know, you
know something I always tellpeople when you come here it's
like everybody communicates indifferent ways, right?
Like some people love to betexted, some people hate it,
some people like emails, somepeople like phone calls.
It's like how are you going towork with this particular client
to get the information you needIf you solely rely on emails to
(26:30):
get the information you need.
Julie (26:33):
If you solely rely on emails, you may never get it.
And so, yeah, it's that pieceof meeting people where they are
at, in terms of how they canlearn Yep, yep, yep.
And so what will be next foryou with your business?
Jennifer (26:47):
Well, for me and the part that I want to do, I'm
really trying to, you know, getout there more, be a thought
leader, speak at someconferences, but that also with
the intent that that can alsohelp grow the business because
you make more connections.
You know we can help people.
You know we do a lot ofconstruction companies.
How do we, how do we get outthere and be in front of them
and help them with their growth?
(27:08):
People come to me.
Well, you're going to give meproject reporting.
Of course I can, but you needto understand how to use the
system because you're going toget more value out of logging in
and getting that informationthan me sending you a report.
Julie (27:21):
Yes, well, and it is interesting, we live in this age
of an endless amount of data isat our fingertips, and so how
do we figure out what we reallyneed to help us, you know, see
the numbers, make the decisionsmove forward, those kind of
pieces.
Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(27:43):
And how much of what you dowhen you bring clients on is
sort of educating them as well.
I mean, that's one exampleright, teaching them how to log
in and pull the informationthemselves.
Jennifer (27:53):
Absolutely.
And then, but also, what we canwe bring to the table is like
here's the processes, the way wewe figured out the best way to
do them Right, so educating themon how to get through those
processes, because so so much ofthe time they're just kind of
getting it done Like there'slike I've heard this term a lot
Like they're like the ducks onthe hopper, they're like calm,
but underneath they're just kindof their feet are just a moving
(28:15):
right.
So there's just like they'reand they're putting out fires
and instead of like this is howwe need to go about the process
in a systematic way, and if youdo your part and I do my part,
it runs so seamless.
Julie (28:28):
Yeah, and that ultimately it will help them make better
decisions, make faster decisions, be able to really see what's
happening.
Jennifer (28:35):
Well and keep the calm .
I mean, I think it's veryinteresting and I've, you know,
told some people.
This is like when I say there'snoise, it's sometimes not true
noise, it's just a lot ofcommotion of things going on
that maybe doesn't need to bethere.
And if you put in a process oryou put in certain things or the
right people in the rightplaces, the noise level drops
(28:59):
and the commotion ceases and youcan just kind of move through
your business and how you needto do it without having this
habit coming going on Right.
Julie (29:11):
Right, and is that you?
Do you see that a lot?
Jennifer (29:14):
Well, I've seen it in my own business.
To be honest with you.
You know we're down peopleright now and it's quieter.
It's just.
Things are just kind of workingand it seemed like we were short
people before, right workingand it seemed like we were short
people before
Julie (29:32):
Right and where you are actually short people and you
can see things coming togetherand working.
Jennifer (29:35):
Exactly, exactly, and it's so you and myself included
you need to be able to hone inwhat's really causing that.
You know, and I didn't evenrealize that that was happening,
and so it's like how do youhone into what that real thing
behind it is so you can fix that?
Yeah Well.
Julie (29:58):
I think too, like it's also when you're kind of like on
those growth edges where youknow the way you did things
before is not working anymoreand you need to like like
simplify or automate or, youknow, communicate differently,
like all of those kind ofhallmark pieces.
Jennifer (30:18):
Well, and I feel like you know, for me it was like I
didn't really dig into trying tofigure out, maybe, what the
real problem was.
I was just kind of lettingother people try to handle it.
And when I actually had to getin there and see what was going
on, my eyes were opened and Iwish I had kind of figured that
out earlier so I could havefixed some of the problems.
(30:39):
That maybe prevented someturnover.
So I learned from that too.
I think we're always learning.
Nobody's perfect.
Julie (30:47):
Oh, no One thing about growing any kind of business.
Running a business is there'salways learning opportunities.
Jennifer (30:54):
Well, and it means, like I tell my kids you know,
you don't succeed until you fail.
It's true.
Sometimes you have to fail tolearn.
Julie (31:00):
And sometimes you have to stumble in order for you to
like be able to, you know, getback to running again.
Jennifer (31:07):
So for sure.
Julie (31:09):
No, it makes a lot of sense.
Well, I'll be very interestedto see where you go.
This has been a greatconversation, and I think it's
great because I do think peopleare afraid of financials, and so
it's nice to see somebody whoviews it as a real partnership.
Yes, I do.
Perfect.
Jennifer (31:27):
Thank you so much for having me.
Julie (31:29):
Thanks, Jennifer, take care.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
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Figure Eight isn't just apodcast.
It's a way of seeing the big,gorgeous goals of women
entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
(31:52):
book Big, gorgeous Goals onAmazon, anywhere you might live,
for more about my growth andleadership training programs.
Visit www.
j ulieellis.
ca to see how we might worktogether.
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
(32:14):
Once again, that's www.
julieellis.
ca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure 8.
Welcome to Figure 8, where we feature inspiring
stories of women entrepreneurswho have grown their businesses
to seven and eight figuresrevenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, julie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book BigGorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure 8.
(01:08):
Today, I am joined by JenniferDevine.
Jennifer is working in thefield of accounting and she has
a business that she purchased in2011, an accounting and
technology solutions business.
Before that, she worked as acontroller for a commercial real
estate development firm and hadlots of interesting and diverse
(01:31):
experience, and today we'regoing to dive into all kinds of
things about accounting and thethings that you need, and how
she's grown her own businessusing teams from abroad as well
as teams from locally, and I'mreally excited to talk to you
today.
Thanks, Jennifer, for joiningme.
Jennifer (01:52):
Thanks for having me, Julie.
Julie (01:54):
So how did you end up, you know, in the commercial real
estate side of accounting?
Jennifer (02:02):
Well, actually it's kind of a funny story.
Actually I had been looking fora new position and I always
like to tell people this just ingeneral because I was on
vacation with my family.
But I was looking for a job, Ihad a recruiter and she had
reached out to me on vacationand said oh, I got this great
(02:23):
job interview for you.
Um, I want you to set it up.
It's gonna be this day and thistime.
And then I didn't hear from heragain and then I had the like
decision to make do I go show upfor this interview that I don't
really know, that I for surehave, because she didn't confirm
it, or do I not show up to aninterview I might have like?
So I really grappled with that.
(02:44):
So I showed up for an interviewI didn't have and, um, I got
the job.
So there you go.
They interviewed me, anyways,and I love it.
Julie (02:58):
So you showed up and they were like, uh, you know, looked
through the calendar and werelike no yeah, and I said, well,
I'm really sorry I couldn't geta hold.
Jennifer (03:03):
The recruiter and I didn't want to not show up for
an interview I had, and she'slike, that's okay, I'll go ahead
and interview.
Julie (03:10):
And then you got the job.
Jennifer (03:11):
I got the job, and so they um, I was the controller
for their development.
They had in Cabo San Lucas.
They were building verybeautiful villas up the side of
a mountain.
That's how I got there.
Julie (03:26):
that's fantastic, um and and kind of interesting, feels
kind of like you know they'redoing kind of an interesting
project and yep, yep, there's alittle bit of excitement in that
, and so did you stay workingfor them for a long time
Jennifer (03:40):
Yes, I worked there for I think 11 years in total.
They were like a family to me.
One of my best friends stillworks there and I just went to
her son's wedding this weekend.
So that tells you a lot.
But it was really hard to leavethere.
But you know, I had gotten alittle bit bored.
I sort of figured it all out,had it really organized and it
(04:02):
was just kind of time to dosomething new.
But yeah, I was there a reallylong time.
Julie (04:07):
Yep, and so how did you get started in what you're doing
right now?
Did you buy it right away ordid you start building up some
things on your own first?
Jennifer (04:17):
No, so so that's also very interesting.
So we had a software,accounting software called
Solomon that we utilized at thecompany I worked for and we had
this girl that came and sheconsulted on the software.
It's all she did and she hadnot many times it talked to me
about working for her and I wasjust like I asked her, like I
have very young kids, I I justcan't just jump Right so she
(04:42):
could, and she wouldn't offer melike a real solution, like oh,
I'd give you so much, x amountof hours a week, or like
anything like that.
So I was like I can't do that.
And then one day she walked inand she said, well, would you be
interested in buying mybusiness?
And I thought I don't know,maybe because I'm in a position
where I could take a risk, atleast a calculated risk, right?
(05:04):
So all in all, I did end upbuying her business and that
business was just consulting onthat software.
And what I realized while I waspursuing that was that I didn't
love the aspect of the projectLike you didn't necessarily know
what was coming next and I onlyhad, you know, 10 to 12 clients
(05:24):
and I was just not sure whattomorrow would bring.
So at that point I startedbuilding up what I would
consider more bookkeepingbusiness.
My sister came to work for meand she sort of started in that
realm and we kind of grew itfrom there.
So really what I bought andwhat it is today is completely
different.
Julie (05:40):
Right yeah, which I think often happens when you buy a
business.
Jennifer (05:45):
It's you know, but I bought another company name.
(06:11):
And unfortunately she decided totake some of my clients back,
and so that was sort of apivotal moment in business where
I said what are we going to donext?
So for people out there I mean,yes, we could go after her, yes
, I could do those things, butit really wasn't going to
advance me further by living inthe past of it.
So we started working with someother softwares and I just
chose a different route.
Julie (06:30):
Yeah, I think that really lands with me because I mean,
when we started our business, wehad a competitor who came on
the market pretty fast after usand, you know, big chunks of our
website were just straight upcopied over and we, you know,
did get her to change that.
But it is this piece of like.
How much time do you want tospend like fighting something
(06:55):
versus figuring out how toreally start growing your
business and taking it in a newdirection, because that there's
only so much of you to giveright, absolutely when you want
to put your energy and where youwant to end up.
Jennifer (07:08):
Well, and that was what's so hard right.
There's also a software that Iknew at the time.
That was it's like nobody usesit anymore.
Just to give you an examplelike nobody's buying it.
It's maybe some people stillhave it, but it's very, very
rare Like it was going to goaway.
So it wasn't going to do me alot of good to focus my effort
on that.
My effort was better focused onsomething that was new and
(07:29):
innovative.
Julie (07:31):
Yes, yeah, and so that's how you sort of started
branching out.
You were selling up yoursoftwares and doing other things
, and where did things go fromthere?
Jennifer (07:41):
So we you know, we really actually we went to this
conference, my sister and I andshe still works with me, you
know, we went to this conferencefor this new software and we
literally were like tears inheadlights, right, like we're
going to implement this.
I'm going to have to say, likeI am, we are not ready for this.
And we ended up meeting somegentlemen that were also at the
(08:05):
conference that had a firm thatsold software and through that
we partnered up, so if we didhave an opportunity to sell the
software, we would sell itthrough them, and we still work
with them to today.
But we became what they callaccounting partners and so we
took it in a different directionand that sort of really
(08:26):
kickstarted us being stoppingbeing just bookkeepers and
becoming more outsourcedaccountants, and it gave us this
opportunity to level up ourgame too.
And so you know, it's funny howthe things will shape you and
turn you in a differentdirection, but it all has worked
out fabulously.
I mean, obviously, bumps in theroad, that's all I mean.
Julie (08:46):
So obviously, and we can talk about some of those but
thinking about, like, when youthink about the shift you made
from being a bookkeeping firm tobeing outsourced accounting,
what were some of the differentthings you were doing for
clients in in as an outsourcedaccountant?
Jennifer (09:04):
Well, interestingly enough, I think we were all.
We were always providing thatlevel of service, so we just
weren't calling it that either.
Because I came from abackground in this real estate
development right where I wasproviding that service and as I
moved forward in my career Ithought I'm really doing what I
was doing there just for others.
Julie (09:24):
Right, so now you're giving it.
So it's more advice giving andmore planning as opposed to just
so yeah, and it depends.
Jennifer (09:31):
But there's also a little bit more of like.
You know, I think people view Iand I would describe
bookkeepers like they're goingto get the transactions and
they're going to pay the bills.
Things are going to get done.
But if you want to use yourfinancials to tell a story about
your business or to be able tolearn from your business, you
need to take it to another level, and a bookkeeper isn't going
(09:51):
to necessarily do that for you.
You might get lucky.
There are, you know, there aresome great book keepers.
I don't want to, but, like youknow, we were going to provide,
yes, and we can take it level upand then help you project and
stuff like that.
But just sometimes, you know,clients need to have an
understanding of what really andhow they're doing in their
business and that's where we arehelping to provide for them.
Julie (10:14):
Yeah, which makes a lot of sense, and I think that, like
from the side of so you knowyou're an entrepreneur and also
an accountant, but forentrepreneurs who are not
accountants, it's one of themost difficult places to find
the kind of quality help andadvice that people really need
when they're growing businesses.
Jennifer (10:35):
Yes, and a lot of times people don't always find
value in it.
They don't think there's valuein it.
Right, it's just something theyhave to get done so they can
pay their taxes.
Julie (10:43):
Right, I got to file the forms and pay right in a check,
basically yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so how have you found thesort of levelling up that's
happened, the kind of changesyou've had to make as you've
grown this business?
Jennifer (10:59):
So I think it's been such an interesting ride.
You mentioned earlier inregards to outsourcing some
employees overseas and we triedthat like a few years ago and I
would say we failed prettymiserably.
Right it just, it just didn'twork.
Part of the problem we didn'thave like a set person and it's
(11:23):
like we went through threepeople and I'm like we can't
keep retraining someone.
Right Like that's such a bigpart of business is like the
losing and the coming and goingof people per se.
Right Like you're alwaysretraining and it's like you
just never can get to that nextstep if you're just keep
retraining and retraining.
So it's like finding that sweetspot of getting those people
who are going to stick with youto help level you up, which is
(11:49):
one of my struggles.
Julie (11:52):
And like managing a virtual team across a lot of
time zones is definitelychallenging.
Jennifer (11:56):
Well, what's really worked for us from that
perspective is they work on ourtime zone, so it's nighttime for
them, them, but they workduring our hours, so they're
still like.
We brought them in as part ofthe team together.
So we try to.
You know, we have a.
One thing that's worked reallywell for us is we have a daily
meeting.
We all get together and we allhave a conversation once a day,
(12:17):
and, you know, because we wantthem to feel like part of the
team, like even though they'reremote, and it helps that we
have four of them there and notjust one.
Julie (12:27):
Yes, and so the first time you did this, it did not
work out very well.
What do you feel like isdifferent this time?
Because now you have fourpeople on your team that are
working overseas.
Jennifer (12:37):
Well, one, I think the company we worked with.
They had a developed plan andhow you go about it.
I had been in an organizationwith a bunch of other
accountants who had used thiscompany before, and you know
some of them had been successfulwith it.
But I learned from theirmistakes other people's mistakes
who maybe hadn't beensuccessful.
So I listened to all of thosethings and we went into it in a
(12:59):
specific direction and how wewere going to go about it, and I
think that helped.
We were more prepared and wereally knew we wanted to at
least have two of them, so thatthey had each other, and so we
didn't get two.
At first we did get one person,but she's still with us and
she's been working outfabulously and gotten promoted,
(13:22):
and so we were then able to addanother one in, and so that's
been great, and they are thereand we have flown over and seen
them.
So I think that's important toois really getting to know them,
and just from going to see themhas really leveled them up too.
They seem less hesitant to askthe questions.
Julie (13:41):
Well, and it is one of the things, though, right about,
like the accounting industry asa whole, is that there's a
certain amount of I don't knowif commoditization is the right
word, but, like back to yourkind of comments about not
everybody sees value in it, theysee it as a function.
They need to file theirpaperwork and that sort of thing
(14:01):
, and so, like getting the rightprice for value and and having
the right team to be able todeliver, that is definitely got
to be a challenge.
Jennifer (14:10):
Well it is, and the hard part is is like what people
want to pay us about.
All my employees worked hereLike we, just we wouldn't find
them like there.
It's hard, that's a difficultplace to be.
Julie (14:22):
Yeah, and so now, how do you feel like you have evolved
as a leader over the?
So it was 2011 that you boughtthat business, and here we are.
You're kind of 15 years, almost, almost, are we.
You know?
We're getting so close, so tellme about what that's been like
for you as the leader.
Jennifer (14:42):
Well, you know, from the beginning, in the beginning,
I was doing all the work rightLike, or even with my sister
here she's a leader and the oneemployee.
And then I added my sister rightand you know, like she's still
with me today, but like I wasstill doing a lot of the work,
like I was really in the depthsof it, and so it was this really
(15:03):
hard balance of how do I getout there and find more clients
but still get all of the workdone, and you can't stop doing
marketing and networking anddoing those things to get the
work done.
So it was a constant juggleright and over time that has
lessened because I've been ableto put myself in a place where
(15:23):
most of the time I don't have todo the client work and I'm able
to really work on the businessand do work.
You know focus on marketing orsales or things that help the
business, or you know employeetraining or other things that
are important for them and notjust work focused on help.
(15:44):
You know working on the clientsand I think that's really
important as you grow.
Julie (15:48):
Yeah, and what was it like?
I mean, you hired your sister,but then how did you start
really really extractingyourself?
Jennifer (15:57):
You know, if I'm being honest with you, I don't even
know how it happened.
I just knew it needed to happen.
I think you know I I hired, soshe works with me and she's done
a lot of work and she's had alot of growth as well.
But then at one point I didhire an accounting director and
that really helped me at leastease out of some of it.
You know, unfortunately I'm ina position right now where I've
(16:19):
had to jump back in in some ways, but I'm not a full-time client
person right Even now, so thatstill helps.
Julie (16:28):
Yes, well, and I mean, I think that is the thing about
entrepreneurship is the buck isstopping on your desk and
ultimately, you know if it, ifthings are, if you're struggling
because you have some turnover,then it can end up back with
you.
Yes, and that's the part nowthat I'm working on how does
(16:49):
yeah, Well, that's where you'relike I am not the right person
for this.
Jennifer (16:53):
It's really funny, like well, I mean, it's funny.
I think you know I've beentalking to some people like
there's this, this aspect of myjob that I'm not proficient in
right.
Like there's a marketing aspectwhere I have typically people
who help me with social and doall those things I'm not
proficient but I'm superproficient with accounting so I
can jump in and it comes reallynaturally to me.
So if I have to do something,I'd rather do that.
Julie (17:17):
Yes, but it is that it leaves you, though, as an
entrepreneur, as an entrepreneur, feeling a bit vulnerable,
right, because there arefunctions that you need to have
that you cannot fill in for.
Jennifer (17:31):
That's, yes, very, very true.
Like I'm just not good at it.
I'm not a creative person.
I mean, I can be creative froman accounting aspect, but I'm
not a creative in, like,designing something that looks
pretty.
Or I'm bad with words, I'mgreat with numbers.
Like, if I have to writesomething, it's going to take me
forever to write it.
Julie (17:53):
Yeah, definitely, definitely Well, and that's the
I mean.
I think, though, you've usedyour creativity to look at
circumstances to build yourbusiness, like all the different
ways that the creativity hasplayed right.
Jennifer (18:10):
Yes, there's that.
There's different types ofcreativity.
I would say right, and I'm goodin some respects.
I have great ideas At least Ithink I do.
But I have all these ideas, butI'm really good with having
someone who helps me really pushthose out there and get them
implemented.
I can come up with them, but amI necessarily the best person
to put them out in the world?
Julie (18:32):
Yeah, and how do you build like the?
You know, bring the ideas andfigure out which ones you should
implement and which ones tokind of leave behind Right.
Figure out which ones youshould implement and which ones
to kind of leave behind Right,yeah, yeah.
(18:53):
And so what is what's kind ofnext?
Are you you've kind ofstabilized now right?
I mean trying to mitigateturnover we talked about.
That's obviously a bigchallenge and one that never
ends Right.
And it's also hard because Ithink as a small business, you
know, you can't reallynecessarily offer somebody like
lifetime career path kind ofjobs.
Jennifer (19:12):
Well, no, interesting.
I always tell people herethough it's like if this job is
kind of what you make of it andyou can help with like, you
don't have to sell to help withgrowth you can help with by with
growth by providing a reallygood service to the clients that
we do have and like andleveling up and being curious
Like that's my new term for thisyear is like being curious, ask
(19:33):
questions, try new things, like, I mean, chat.
Gpt still is relatively new andpeople have dabbled in it, but
you know, the other day I wastrying to train myself.
What else can we use it for?
I hear these things people aredoing and we got to figure
something out.
We have to stay up to date.
Julie (19:50):
Well, and with AI, like the thing that I think with that
is, we all need to figure outhow we're going to use it,
because if we just say, well,I'm just going to wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait, wait, it'smoving so fast that it'll just
leapfrog right over us
Jennifer (20:04):
Absolutely.
You know we don't, we don'thave to be the first to do
everything, but we certainlydon't want to be the last.
Julie (20:09):
e, and even I mean I've heard people talking about using
ai for bookkeeping, which iskind of interesting because
obviously you you will stillneed human intervention for
things like you talk about, likeinterpretation.
Interpretation of things and howyou work with the rules to
(20:30):
present things Like those kindsof things are probably human
critical thinking things, butthose transactions that are just
happening, like that's a reallyinteresting idea.
Jennifer (20:46):
And those are already, I mean, a little inherent in a
lot of the accounting systemsalready, where you can set
things up and they will justflow and happen.
It's not quite there yet inthat respect, you know, because
it gets it wrong lots of times,but even though we do, we have
to adapt, and being anaccountant is a lot less of
debits and credits, as it usedto be, and a lot more on
(21:06):
understanding the technology andhow it works.
Julie (21:08):
Yes, well, and yeah, and I guess that's something for
like what should you know anentrepreneur who wants to hire
somebody like you, a companylike yours?
Like what is it that theyshould look for?
Jennifer (21:24):
Well, they really should.
I mean, I tell this to myclients like we want to be part
of your team.
It's not like, yes, we'reoutsourced, but that doesn't
mean we.
You shouldn't think of us whenyou have a question about
something or need somethingadditional.
Right, you know it's hard, it'sa hard space sometimes because
we're providing a specificservice for what you're paying
for, but that doesn't mean wecan't add on to that or help you
(21:48):
with something additional whenit comes along.
You know, but if somebody'sjust your bookkeeper or they
don't pick up the phone when youcall them, like those are,
those are sure signs that it'snot really working?
Julie (22:11):
Yeah, you want the team that you're building um.
Are you fully remote or do youhave an office?
Jennifer (22:19):
So we yeah, we do have an office, um, we're, we're one
day at home right now, you know, and I've dabbled in, what do
we do next, cause our lease iscoming up Um, and what makes the
most sense.
It's interesting Cause I can.
I can see both sides ofeverything, but I also watch and
see how people learn, and I dothink being around others and
(22:43):
overhearing things does playinto learning, and I hope that
people will recognize that,because it's really hard.
People are going to be a lotmore hesitant to message you or
ask you a question over thecomputer.
Now, they're not saying thateverybody will or they will, but
it has to have more intention.
I can't just overhear somebodytalking which I do and go oh no,
(23:08):
no, no, no, no, no, no, that'snot no, no, no.
Let me tell you how to do that.
Like so I can't, I can't, evenI can't.
I don't have the opportunity tocorrect a mistake before it
happens, because I just hearsomething.
Julie (23:19):
But yeah, or or I think also the idea, like I do think
in accounting especially likehow will people understand how
to think beyond a contained setof rules if they never actually
have any coaching or see,anybody doing that.
Jennifer (23:38):
yeah, it's, and it's hard like so.
I think with more remote, ithas to be more intense.
You have to have a systematicway to see if people are getting
things done.
And it's harder, it's harder, Ithink it's harder to manage.
Julie (23:54):
Oh, yes, no question, it's harder to manage.
Yeah, yeah, yes, but it isinteresting because I've had
another somebody I know talk tome about accountants who are
going into audit practices andhow, you know, with the pandemic
they stopped having kind of theaudit room mentality where
(24:16):
everybody would gather and thatthey found that their young
accountants were not learning asmuch.
Jennifer (24:22):
I think that's very, very true.
And then also you add on to thefact that people are changing
jobs more frequently than theyused to.
I don't think they're reallydeveloping that base level of
knowledge that we got theopportunity to do when we were
younger.
Like, I just think it's hard.
Julie (24:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's a different, just a different job
market and a different world.
In that way, I think yeah,agreed, yeah, and so what kind
of culture are you trying tobuild in terms of how you're,
how you're bringing young peopleup and like education and
trying to hang on to and givethem opportunities, the people
(25:01):
that you know?
Jennifer (25:02):
We are trying to build a culture here.
You know we are small, so youknow it feels more like a family
.
You know I want people to feellike they're at home here, that
it's not just a job they enjoy,like you hate going to your job,
right, who wants to go?
But you know they can, thatthey enjoy it.
But then you know, I am reallyfocused on how do we train
people, because you can tellpeople to watch videos all day,
(25:23):
but that doesn't really trainthem on how to actually do
different things.
So once a month we have amonthly meeting and I do some
form of a training exercise inthat meeting for them, just more
focused on things we do and howwe do it too, so that they can
kind of learn that aspect of it.
Also, you know, like includingpeople on meetings that they may
(25:46):
not have had opportunities tobe part of, just even if it's
like you don't have to sayanything, just listen, so you
can learn from being on thosemeetings with clients all the
different ways of bringingpeople along.
Yes, yes, and also, like youknow, it's a skill to learn how
to deal with different types ofpeople.
(26:06):
People have differentpersonalities and you know, you
know something I always tellpeople when you come here it's a
skill to learn how to deal withdifferent types of people.
People have differentpersonalities and you know, you
know something I always tellpeople when you come here it's
like everybody communicates indifferent ways, right?
Like some people love to betexted, some people hate it,
some people like emails, somepeople like phone calls.
It's like how are you going towork with this particular client
to get the information you needIf you solely rely on emails to
(26:30):
get the information you need.
Julie (26:33):
If you solely rely on emails, you may never get it.
And so, yeah, it's that pieceof meeting people where they are
at, in terms of how they canlearn Yep, yep, yep.
And so what will be next foryou with your business?
Jennifer (26:47):
Well, for me and the part that I want to do, I'm
really trying to, you know, getout there more, be a thought
leader, speak at someconferences, but that also with
the intent that that can alsohelp grow the business because
you make more connections.
You know we can help people.
You know we do a lot ofconstruction companies.
How do we, how do we get outthere and be in front of them
and help them with their growth?
(27:08):
People come to me.
Well, you're going to give meproject reporting.
Of course I can, but you needto understand how to use the
system because you're going toget more value out of logging in
and getting that informationthan me sending you a report.
Julie (27:21):
Yes, well, and it is interesting, we live in this age
of an endless amount of data isat our fingertips, and so how
do we figure out what we reallyneed to help us, you know, see
the numbers, make the decisionsmove forward, those kind of
pieces.
Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(27:43):
And how much of what you dowhen you bring clients on is
sort of educating them as well.
I mean, that's one exampleright, teaching them how to log
in and pull the informationthemselves.
Jennifer (27:53):
Absolutely.
And then, but also, what we canwe bring to the table is like
here's the processes, the way wewe figured out the best way to
do them Right, so educating themon how to get through those
processes, because so so much ofthe time they're just kind of
getting it done Like there'slike I've heard this term a lot
Like they're like the ducks onthe hopper, they're like calm,
but underneath they're just kindof their feet are just a moving
(28:15):
right.
So there's just like they'reand they're putting out fires
and instead of like this is howwe need to go about the process
in a systematic way, and if youdo your part and I do my part,
it runs so seamless.
Julie (28:28):
Yeah, and that ultimately it will help them make better
decisions, make faster decisions, be able to really see what's
happening.
Jennifer (28:35):
Well and keep the calm .
I mean, I think it's veryinteresting and I've, you know,
told some people.
This is like when I say there'snoise, it's sometimes not true
noise, it's just a lot ofcommotion of things going on
that maybe doesn't need to bethere.
And if you put in a process oryou put in certain things or the
right people in the rightplaces, the noise level drops
(28:59):
and the commotion ceases and youcan just kind of move through
your business and how you needto do it without having this
habit coming going on Right.
Julie (29:11):
Right, and is that you?
Do you see that a lot?
Jennifer (29:14):
Well, I've seen it in my own business.
To be honest with you.
You know we're down peopleright now and it's quieter.
It's just.
Things are just kind of workingand it seemed like we were short
people before, right workingand it seemed like we were short
people before
Julie (29:32):
Right and where you are actually short people and you
can see things coming togetherand working.
Jennifer (29:35):
Exactly, exactly, and it's so you and myself included
you need to be able to hone inwhat's really causing that.
You know, and I didn't evenrealize that that was happening,
and so it's like how do youhone into what that real thing
behind it is so you can fix that?
Yeah Well.
Julie (29:58):
I think too, like it's also when you're kind of like on
those growth edges where youknow the way you did things
before is not working anymoreand you need to like like
simplify or automate or, youknow, communicate differently,
like all of those kind ofhallmark pieces.
Jennifer (30:18):
Well, and I feel like you know, for me it was like I
didn't really dig into trying tofigure out, maybe, what the
real problem was.
I was just kind of lettingother people try to handle it.
And when I actually had to getin there and see what was going
on, my eyes were opened and Iwish I had kind of figured that
out earlier so I could havefixed some of the problems.
(30:39):
That maybe prevented someturnover.
So I learned from that too.
I think we're always learning.
Nobody's perfect.
Julie (30:47):
Oh, no One thing about growing any kind of business.
Running a business is there'salways learning opportunities.
Jennifer (30:54):
Well, and it means, like I tell my kids you know,
you don't succeed until you fail.
It's true.
Sometimes you have to fail tolearn.
Julie (31:00):
And sometimes you have to stumble in order for you to
like be able to, you know, getback to running again.
Jennifer (31:07):
So for sure.
Julie (31:09):
No, it makes a lot of sense.
Well, I'll be very interestedto see where you go.
This has been a greatconversation, and I think it's
great because I do think peopleare afraid of financials, and so
it's nice to see somebody whoviews it as a real partnership.
Yes, I do.
Perfect.
Jennifer (31:27):
Thank you so much for having me.
Julie (31:29):
Thanks, Jennifer, take care.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
podcast platform so you won'tmiss any episodes.
Figure Eight isn't just apodcast.
It's a way of seeing the big,gorgeous goals of women
entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
(31:52):
book Big, gorgeous Goals onAmazon, anywhere you might live,
for more about my growth andleadership training programs.
Visit www.
j ulieellis.
ca to see how we might worktogether.
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
(32:14):
Once again, that's www.
julieellis.
ca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure 8.
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