January 23, 2025 • 40 mins
Julie's Big Gorgeous Goals: Official Workbook is here! Order your copy today.
This episode highlights Jacqueline Sava's inspiring journey as the founder of Soak Wash, revealing her innovative approach to creating a product that cares for delicate clothing while prioritizing sustainability. She discusses education's role in fostering consumer relationships and navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship over nearly two decades of business.
There’s the stuff you toss in the washer, like your jeans, T-shirts and the kids’ sweatshirts. Then there are the clothes you coddle. The ones that say “this is me.” That’s the stuff you take care of with Soak.
Jacqueline Sava is the Director of Possibilities and Founder of Soak Wash Inc. Founded in 2006, Soak was a side-project for Jacqueline’s first business designing knitwear, and was created to fill a gap in the marketplace. Jacqueline identified that the care products available in retail environments at the time did not align with the clothing they were meant to wash. And so, Soak was born—a premium laundry solution that customers grew to love and trust.
Through Soak Wash Inc. (a proudly women-led company), Jacqueline has empowered individuals to take better care of their clothing by extending the life of their favorite pieces.
Our resellers are over 95% women owned businesses. Investing in Soak Wash Inc. is an investment in hundreds of women-owned and led business across the globe.
You can learn more about Soak Wash Inc. on their website or on Instagram. You can find Jacqueline on LinkedIn.
You can connect with Julie on LinkedIn or Instagram.
Find Julie's writing at her blog or by ordering her book Big Gorgeous Goals and the brand new official companion workbook!
What did you think of this conversation? We'd love if you'd rate or review our show!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Julie (00:04):
Welcome to Figure Eight, where we feature inspiring
stories of women entrepreneurswho have grown their businesses
to seven and eight figuresrevenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, Julie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book, BigGorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure 8.
Today I'm talking withJacqueline Sava, and Jacqueline
(01:10):
founded her company Soak Washalmost 20 years ago.
She makes a beautiful wash forall of your most important
delicate items that you havecrafted, worn, made all of the
different places, and so she isat the helm of the company and
is the director of possibilities, and they sell their soap wash
(01:34):
all over the world.
She's built an e-commercebusiness, she's gone to
distribution, and it is alwaysan interesting journey, as we're
going to talk about today.
It is always an interestingjourney as we're going to talk
about today.
Soak Wash is made in Canada andit's free of dyes and
phosphates, ammonia and harshsurfactants, which are the
things that separate the dirtaway from your clothes, and so
(01:56):
she is also working in the spaceof sustainability and how we
look after the things that weown.
I want to say welcome to you andthanks for joining me,
Jacqueline.
thanks for having me.
Thanks, it's so good to talk toyou.
Do you want to tell me a littlebit about how you came to start
this business and what it'sbeen like for you over the last
(02:16):
almost 20 years?
the detergent trajectory.
I was designing knitwear.
So my background is industrialdesign, so product design, and I
was designing knitwear while Iwas doing my thesis at Rhode
Island School of Design.
And then when I graduated I wasstill doing knitwear.
So I was hats and accessories,scarves, mittens, machine knit
(02:40):
pieces and cut and sewn.
And when I started selling myknitwear, um, people were asking
how to take care of it, and soI was selling it at craft shows
like one of a kind and that kindof thing.
And then I did get a wholesalelike a distributor selling my
knit accessories, and it keptcoming back how do we take care
of this?
And we would say, um, yousnuggle, use baby shampoo?
(03:01):
Um, and then I was like thisisn't really the right answer.
And so I have a real corememory I had lunch with a
colleague who worked in plasticsmanufacturing, where I had been
doing some consulting work andshe worked for a co packer, so
someone who does private labelpackaging of soaps and stuff
(03:21):
like that.
And so she'd come to lunch andshe'd bring me like a bubble
bath or a shampoo where thelabel is backwards or like a lab
sample, do you like thisfragrance?
And she'd always bring me thesetreats.
And so I said to her one dayover lunch.
I said I wonder if we can makea wool wash that goes with the
knits.
And so that's how we developthe formula from a skincare
background.
So we call it skincare for yourclothing with, like, naturally
(03:42):
derived ingredients from askincare background.
So it's so gentle you couldtake a bath in it.
That's kind of how that started.
And so Soak was originally asecondary product to go with my
knitwear.
And then, um, you know, thingsexploded from there.
So it was our knitwear at thedistributor with like a soak
sitting next to it.
And then we just startedgetting these inquiries about
(04:03):
soak.
And then someone said you know,there's this knitting industry
and you could sell it to yarnstores, not just for finished
knits.
And so my mom and I went to ourfirst knitting trade show and we
sent out all these bottleshaped postcards and we did this
like big mail merge.
I can remember, like you know,over the, you know you're single
right, so you're over theholidays and you have like the
tv trays around the sofa andyou're watching movies, stuffing
envelopes with postcards.
(04:24):
Like literal mail, merge Right.
And so we sent out all thesepostcards that was like come to
the booth for a free sample.
And then we walked in theconvention center and there was
like this massive lineup ofpeople at our booth.
Like it was like we didn't evensay hello to each other for
like five hours and that waskind of the beginning of Soak
that's amazing, and that waskind of the beginning of Soak.
(04:45):
That's amazing, well, and it does make sense, though,
that when you're washing yourmost special things that you are
also going to wear, that youwant them to be washed with
something really nice.
Jacqueline (04:54):
For sure, and we've learned that at Soak.
We try to take the fear out ofhand washing and bring people we
call it from fear to elation.
Because a lot of people don'twear their favorite things
because they don't know howthey're going to take care of
them.
So we might buy cashmere socksor get fitted for a great bra or
splurge on a sweater or have agreat dress, but we don't wear
it all the time because we'reafraid we're going to spill
something on it or we're goingto get it dirty, or we're not
(05:16):
and we don't know how to cleanit, or we like wear it once and
then we just like it out for awhile.
So at Soak we really want toteach people to take care of
those things, because you feelbetter when you wear your
favorite clothes, whether it'seven if it's something at home,
like if you have an antiquequilt or you have a blanket that
you love like.
You feel better when you'recozy underneath it and you're
not gonna like really use itunless you're comfortable with
(05:38):
how you're going to take care ofit.
Julie (05:39):
Yeah, I think that's so true.
So, obviously, from that veryfirst trade show, where you have
that huge lineup, to where youare today, which is, you know,
with a team and you knowmultiple currencies, lots of
different countries, like allthe things that have happened,
how would you say you havechanged over the time that you
(06:01):
have grown this business?
Jacqueline (06:04):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, I mean, you know, oncethe soap kind of got going, I
went back to school part-time,at night, and did my MBA,
because I realized prettyquickly that I didn't have the
skill set that I needed to makethese decisions and to grow the
business, because I have a BFA,um, before that, industrial
(06:24):
design.
So I definitely decided Ineeded to know more.
Um, and then, oh, I mean the,the learning curve, I mean it's
so, it's steep, right, like Ididn't.
You know that first summer weshipped all those orders and we
filled out the paperwork wrongand all the shipping and customs
charges got sent to thecustomers.
(06:51):
So, yeah, like that first summer, all we did was like, and you,
and because it went all on theircourier accounts, you couldn't
just solve the problem.
You had to wait for, like, eachperson to realize that there
was a problem and then solve theproblem.
So, um, yeah, just learning,like the multitude of things
that we didn't even know, thatwe didn't know.
That's my favorite question.
Like, tell me what I don't knowthat I don't know, because I
know what I don't know, but Idon't know what I don't know
that I don't know, and that'swhere I'm going to get in
(07:12):
trouble.
So sort of my go-to question.
Julie (07:16):
And so, and what's it like?
I mean, I just think you're avery smart person, you got a
graduate degree in business andyou're an entrepreneur, and do
you still?
I know you still find so manythings you still don't know.
Like, how is it that that isthe constant journey of
entrepreneurship?
Jacqueline (07:37):
Well, I mean, I never worked in a big consumer
package good company.
So, um, pros and cons, right,pros, nimble, I have a good
vision, I know what I want to do, I figure out how I'm going to
get there.
But we've always been likewhat's the problem, how we're
going to solve it, versus likewhat's the strategy and how
(07:59):
we're going to apply it.
So, um, our vp, now my vp, suzmagical, and I love her.
I've known her for even beforeI started the business and when
she was looking for a new job Iwas like this is going to sound
really weird, but I would likefirst rights of refusal.
I was like I don't know howmuch money you make, I don't
know what you want to do, but Iwould like first rights of
refusal.
For us to have a conversation,because she's come from a
(08:19):
corporate background, so we willoften like go full two halves
of the circle to come to thesame spot.
And even if it's like numbersforecasting risk how much of our
market is, you know whatpercent of our market is in this
territory work with thosebigger corporate restraints,
whether it's about margins,whether it's about distribution,
whether it's about not goingtoo fast, you know.
(08:55):
And then I come from more of anentrepreneurial perspective
which is like this is wherewe're going, this is where we're
doing, this is how we'regetting there, and so that
balance of trying to pushforward and then still kind of
validating is good.
And it's not to say that Idon't know what my margins are
and look at them, but justthere's, you know, it's just
like a different kind of, it'slike a different kind of math
that we use to kind of get tothe same spot.
(09:16):
Um, so I think that's you know,and part of me wishes I had had
that background before, andthen part of me is really glad
that I didn't have thatbackground.
So it's kind of hard to knowsometimes, you know, because
sometimes I'm like I sometimes Isay like what would I do if I
were a real company?
Julie (09:34):
I'm almost 20 years in.
Jacqueline (09:35):
maybe I am, but it's funny, right, because you don't
feel like it, right, becausepeople like I talked to somebody
the other day who's doing likea really innovative washing
situation and they were like wetested all these detergents and
yours work the best and we wantto move forward with yours as
our preferred detergent for thiswashing system.
(09:56):
And I was like what you know,like it still sounded really.
It still sounded really crazyto me, because I look at a
bottle of soap and I and I stillsee it as like, like a project,
right.
Um, even like I went to Polandlast year and we visited like
tons of stores that carry ourproduct and people who've been
selling our product for a decade, and they're like, you know,
you always have to make this,don't ever stop, whatever.
(10:17):
And I'm like looking at it withPolish labels and I'm like, is
this real?
Like, for me, it sort of stilldoesn always seem real, which I
think is also a sign that it'sstill fun and good for me to
work on.
But I you know other people arejust like oh, of course it's
Soak, right.
I'm like, oh, okay, sure, yeah.
Julie (10:36):
It is so interesting.
Well and we've talked about, Imean, how the challenge of you
know, scaling up this businesswhere you're selling many, many,
many small items like your, youknow your ticket price is small
and and what that looks likecompared to you know somebody
who's selling $10,000 items whenyou're selling $10 items, is
(10:58):
very, very different in terms ofwhat complexities come to play.
Jacqueline (11:03):
Yeah, we are suffering from, like, the
problems for a business thattypically, with an overall
revenue, is much bigger thanours, so we are always perceived
to be bigger than we are.
Also because we've done areally excellent job at branding
and positioning and marketing.
Like I was at a lingerie tradeshow in New York and there was
kind of this like brand speeddating thing and with buyers and
(11:25):
brands, and I was like this isnew, I'm going to, I'll do this.
And so I was talking to thiswoman.
She had a store in WashingtonDC.
I really she's like I reallylove Soak, it's really great.
But we're our focus is reallysupporting, you know, women
owned businesses, independentbusinesses, small businesses.
You know we don't I love yourwash but I don't really want to
buy from like a giantconglomerate and I was like okay
.
And I was like okay, let's like, let's start this conversation
(11:48):
again.
I was like so my last 10messages are, like you know, my
husband trying to figure outwhich lighting to put in our new
renovated office.
And like these are the picturesof my kids in the warehouse.
And there are eight of us andwe're women owned and you know
we're really little and like youknow.
So she just fully like, justperceived we were like this
giant detergent brand you know,um, and of course then she
ordered soak and good customerand all those kind of things.
(12:10):
But it was really I find itreally fascinating because
people have like a much biggerlike perception of where we are
and it's, you know, it's onpurpose.
We launched, with really strongmarketing, a lot of product
photography.
You know, taking a picture ofliquid in a bottle is really
hard.
So we, even on day one, welaunched with a full, you know,
we used Flickr back in the dayif that doesn't, if that doesn't
date us, I don't know what willbut we launched with a database
(12:31):
on Flickr where our customersand media could use the images
that we produce, so that we'dhave brand continuity.
So it's kind of this mix oflike big brand games, even
though we're like a smallerbrand in that sense.
So yeah, which is, which isreally an interesting way to
(12:54):
position yourself.
Yeah, I mean we're, we're apremium wash.
We, because we're made inCanada, because we have high
quality ingredients, because weuse post-consumer resin plastic
and also because competing onprices like we knew from the
beginning, completing on priceis not going to get you anywhere
in this category.
One like from a traditionaldetergent standpoint and two
like as a small business inCanada.
If we, if we position on pricelike somebody can always be
(13:15):
cheaper, that's not where we'regoing to, where we're going to
be.
So we've always positionedourselves on like we want to be
the wash that's next to theclothes you love, love most and
that you trust and take care ofit.
Because once we have that trustwith our customers then then
it's solidified and it kind ofgrows.
But it is true that, like abottle retails for 18 and so
when you work back to likewholesale pricing or distributor
pricing, we are running a lotof bottles, um, a lot of bottles
(13:38):
through our, through ourwarehouse and through our
spreadsheets and through ourmath and even our little single
use samples.
I mean they are like a giftwith purchase.
We order them like 200 000 atime, several times a year.
So there's a lot of, a lot oflittle units going through.
So, yeah, maybe my nextbusiness.
We joke like diamonds, right,like high value, small scale,
everyone in the industry and Idon't want to go there.
(14:01):
But if I have to think aboutlike business number two, it's
definitely like high value,small size.
Julie (14:06):
Yeah, and that has different problems attached to
it.
That's the part I'm interestedin, because I mean, at Mabel's
Labels, we did 25% of our salesin one month of the year.
That month was August, and soyou have to act like you're
going to do that amount of salesin every single month.
You need to, you know, thinkabout your supply chain and does
your website have enoughbandwidth?
(14:27):
And it's so.
I mean, that was one of our bigproblems and, like every
challenge is hard to solve inits own way.
Jacqueline (14:35):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I had.
I met someone when we werereally little and he was, I feel
like he was like somebody Iknew's father, who was in
business or whatever and he said, like you're always going to
have problems and challenges,they're just going to get bigger
and different.
And at the time I didn'tunderstand it and now I
absolutely understand it.
So I'm not afraid of problemsand challenges, I like that and
(14:57):
they are just, they're alwaysthere, they're always just
bigger and they're always justdifferent.
Julie (15:01):
And that idea that it's like a closed system, like as
soon as you overcome anychallenge, be it big or small,
it will reveal the next one,like there's a whole process of
like the challenges don't end,so you can't actually like ever
be like huh, I think I'm done.
Jacqueline (15:19):
Yeah, for sure, and I and I love, I love that about
it.
You know, when I'm reallyexhausted of work and not so
much post-pandemic, because I doa mix of working at home and at
the office but when I used tocommute every day to the office,
I'd be like, okay, if I don'twant to go to work, I'm going to
get in the car, think ofsomething I would rather do
(15:44):
between when I leave and when Iget to my office.
Then I can like contemplate,exploring, doing something else.
But if I can't think ofsomething else that I would
rather do than this total storm,then I have to go to work that
day.
So that was sort of how I would, you know, and like maybe once
or twice I would just divert andgo to the rowing club and be
like, actually what I need to dois like, yeah, no, there's not
anything else that I want to domore than this.
So have at her, you know.
Julie (16:07):
Yeah, and even going for the workout doesn't mean you
don't want to do this.
It means you need some space toclear your head, exactly.
Jacqueline (16:14):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's cleaning your
head.
I think is one of the hardestthings because there are only so
many hours in the day, soreally allocating time to clear
your head is pretty important.
Yeah.
Julie (16:30):
And what would you say?
Jacqueline (16:31):
the best things have been for you about growing this
business.
I really love the amount ofpeople like the people that we
get to work with and thecountries that we get to go to
Traveling for work is hard.
I have another trip in two daysand I'm like manic.
I'm never a friendly person theday before I travel.
Everybody on our team,including my husband, knows that
but I think that for me, it'sthe people like we don't set.
(16:53):
We're not just a d2c brand.
We sell through distributors,we sell through stores, and so
the amount of people whose livesare enriched by getting to sell
soak is as amazing for me as itis just the people whose lives
are enriched for having theproduct and using it at home,
because not only contributing tothe income of, like my whole
(17:14):
team which I think is amazingthat I like keep people employed
, that's very cool but also theamount of revenue that it
generates for like the I don'tknow somewhere near a thousand
probably independent retailersthat sell our product as well,
right, and I think that's reallycool.
And because Soaks is a careproduct.
So if you're a lingerie shopand somebody comes in to buy a
(17:37):
bra, you want to teach them howto take care of it because if
they throw their bra in thewashing machine and it gets all
twisted and mangled, they're notgoing to blame themselves,
they're not going to blame thebra, they're going to come back
to the shop owner and be likeyou sold me a crappy bra, you
sold me a bra that will gettangled, and so Soak helps kind
of mitigate that risk for theshop owner as well and so it
(17:57):
adds value for them to make thembe able to give something to
their customer of value as well,to help kind of mitigate that
risk of unhappy customers.
So I really love the people thatwe meet and that's one of my
favorite parts about traveling,like when I went to Poland, as I
said, and we did store visits,or whether I'm at a trade show
or we do a couple, do a coupleof big consumer events a year
(18:18):
where we get to be face-to-facewith our end users as well and
talk to them and thencollaborating with brands and
and that kind of thing.
So I really love.
I really love that aspect of it.
Julie (18:28):
Yeah Well, and I think it's that like.
It gives you that ability toeducate as well, for people to
learn how they can talk to theircustomers in a way that you
know it extends the life oftheir product and, you know,
puts them in that trusted kindof you know position for the
(18:48):
customer.
Jacqueline (18:49):
Yeah, and education is one of our values, and so
it's not just about educatingpeople on how to use Soak.
It's about educating people onhow to do business better.
Like we make an upsell product,like we're the shoe polish to
the soak.
It's about educating people onhow to do business better, like
we make an upsell product, likewe're the shoe polish to the
shoes.
So you want to make more money.
You can't sell more shoes shallsell everybody shoe polish,
right.
So you know, if you add soakonto your transaction, you will
make more money per transaction.
(19:10):
So we do a lot of educating forour customers on how to make
more money in their shops or howto merchandise in their shops
or how to cross sell things intheir shops, and also in our
team we try to work hard to givepeople educational
opportunities as well, like whatis it that you want to know
about the business that's notunder your wheelhouse, that you
want to learn, right?
How do you want to be a betterperson?
How do you want to communicatebetter?
How do you want to train peoplebetter?
(19:30):
So it's really how do you wantto grow as a person?
So for us at Soak, it's asimportant about how you're going
to grow as an individual, as itis about how you're going to do
the functional tasks of yourjob, and that's something I'm
really leaning into movingforward, because, you know, our
warehouse team are the peoplewho touch the product before it
gets into your hands, right, sothey're a very important part of
(19:51):
the process, right, everybodyhas an option, an opportunity to
learn, to grow, to develop.
Everybody has an option, anopportunity to learn, to grow,
to develop, and so we do do alot of training.
So it's not just how do youtake care of your sweater that
you've worn for, you know, we,we always the person who's like
oh, I was in Ireland 20 yearsago.
I brought this beautiful Irishsweater.
I've never washed it.
Okay, you know, not only thatexperience of like what you
(20:13):
should feel like when you have afreshly washed, a freshly
soaked sweater all the way to.
You know, can we help a shopowner make more money in their
store?
Right, cause we are all in,we're in business.
We're not in nonprofit, we'rein business.
So how can I help you make moremoney in your store, or a
distributor make more money?
So that educational aspect, Ireally, I really love seeing
(20:36):
people kind of learn and benefitfrom something that we created.
It's pretty cool.
Julie (20:40):
That is very cool.
How long into your journey didyou decide that you wanted to
create values for the company?
Jacqueline (20:50):
Well, we started Soak as a secondary product and
we have, like we're coming closeto our 20th anniversary in 2026
.
And we sort of have like aloose start date.
We kind of had to create onebecause we didn't really have a
finite date, because it kind ofevolved from the knitwear
business and in 2008, weactually did a lot of work about
like values.
That's when we developed theconcept of soak worthy, soak
(21:12):
worthiness and what is soakworthy and what does that mean,
and actually really giving it adefinition, definition and
having values and stuff, becausewe had a goal of what we were
trying to do.
And then, all of a sudden,within a couple years, the
market was kind of reflectingback to us what was important.
So, two years in is when we seta lot of those guiding
principles in place.
Um, and then I feel like we'rekind of going through a little
(21:34):
bit of a renaissance in terms ofmaking sure that we're really
living those all the way throughour whole organization.
And then a few years ago, whenwe started the process of
updating our website, we reallywere looking at what our you
know, what our brand pillars are, what our profiles are, how
they're evolving with themarketplace and the industry are
(21:57):
how they're evolving with themarketplace and the industry.
You know, we started usingpost-consumer resin for our
bottles in 2012, when it wasmore expensive and not really
readily available, you know.
And then people like, well, whyaren't you like talking
sustainability more?
And I was like, well, becausewe already been doing that
already.
That's just what we do, youknow.
So trying to also feel likewhat pillars have longevity
versus which ones are trendy.
Julie (22:22):
Yeah, and then it is interesting because, although
you've been doing it for a longtime, yeah, what's the like
we're still here and we're stillsustainable?
Jacqueline (22:29):
aspect to um, you know they they talk about like
how you have to tell people overand over and over again, right,
yeah, we've not always been thebest at telling people over and
over again, because we yeah,we've not always been the best
at telling people over and overagain, because we also are
consumers and we don't like toget like bombarded.
And also, if you don't tellpeople over and over again, they
don't know.
And also, like, sometimes youhave to look at.
I think the things that areinteresting for me are like we
(22:50):
make.
I make liquid.
It's in a plastic bottle.
I order 100,000 plastic bottlesat a time.
I understand that the worlddoes not want more plastic
bottles and also the worlddoesn't want to pay for glass
and the world doesn't want totransport glass and the world is
not ready for recycling glassright now at the price point and
volumes where we are.
So there's always this like youknow what is what is
(23:13):
sustainable and also what arepeople willing to pay for?
Right, because and and that Ithink has a lot to do with scale
, because I can formulate a washthat is organic and I can't
really sell it.
You know what I mean Like, likepeople won't pay for it, for
what it costs, and also we'vealways been really true to like
(23:34):
around sustainability, like realinformation.
There's a lot of greenwashingI'm sure you've heard that
expression and especially aroundchemicals.
We are chemicals.
We go to chemistry class rightH2O chemical, right, water is a
chemical.
So there's this conversationaround like what is a chemical
and you know what is organic andwhat is sustainable and what is
(23:58):
biodegradable and that kind ofthing.
So we we get in those differentspaces to try to talk to people
and understand truly whatthings are out like.
It's a liquid in a bottle.
Water needs preservatives,water-based ingredients.
That's why, like, your lipstickis oil-based, it has no water.
That's why you can find yourgrandmother's and then you can
like pick it up and put it onright, because there's no water
(24:20):
in it, so there's no bacteriadeveloping there, you know.
But we need preservatives andwe need a product that's shelf
stable, because it's going to goin stores and it's going to sit
in the window where there's UVlight and temperature change and
that kind of thing.
So there's always this balancebetween being transparent with
what's in the product and howyou're marketing it, versus
(24:41):
still making sure something thatcan have like a proper P&L
where you can actually sell itright, because we're, all you
know, trying to pay for hockeylessons.
What can I say right, like youknow, when I first talked and I
used to lecture, I used to talkabout cat food because, like
when you're single, peopleassume that you can just like
eat ramen and craft dinner andbe fine.
But if I'm like I need enoughmoney at the end of the day to
(25:02):
buy cat food, they're like ohthe kitties, everybody wants the
cats to have like good food,right?
They're like you can survive onramen, depending on what you're
, you know.
Julie (25:23):
But yeah, I used to be like we need to have enough
money at the end of the day tobuy cat food.
Yeah, no, I think it's aninteresting point about how you
find your place in the sea ofclaims that you could make and
also in what's viable in termsof making real business out of
it, and then how you sort ofstand by the values that you
have to guide you as you makeall of those decisions.
Jacqueline (25:36):
Yeah, and I've done a lot of teaching and like
post-grad stuff on designstrategy and I've worked with
Lentero Crafts Council.
I have like a course that I didcalled From Maker to Making a
Living.
That was like helping peoplewho are on a small scale really
understand their pricing andunderstand what they're doing
and that they're actually makingmoney.
And it's not.
It's not from place of judgment, I don't.
I'm thrilled if you want to bein business, if you make five
(26:00):
units or 5,000 or 500,000,.
What I care about is that youunderstand what you need
personally, like financially, totake home for your family or
your life, and that yourbusiness is meeting those needs
right.
So it's not, it's not.
I'm all for like an organicdetergent that costs like forty
five dollars for a little amount, and if the person making that
can sustain a profitablebusiness doing that, then you
(26:24):
know, have at her.
Julie (26:27):
What have been some of your big challenges as you've
grown the business?
Yeah, um.
Jacqueline (26:36):
So we went through a round of like bc financing in
2008 when I was finishing my mba.
One of the um I did thismanaging venture growth and
transition course and one of theprofessors and one of the um
guests were interested ininvesting in soak to help us
scale and um to be to be part ofaccurate statistics.
(26:56):
That deal fell through at the11th and a half hour um through
no fault of mine.
Um just like an investor changeof lifestyle kind of situation,
and so that was a big challengebecause we had started to scale
up, I had hired people, I hadgot an office, I had done all
these things because we were inlike two years of normal due
diligence and everything wasalmost done and we signed the
papers one way and then theydidn't get signed back um.
(27:18):
So I can remember that daycrystal clearly um not a fun day
um, but in retrospect like weworked with our accountant at
the time to like get bankfinancing and to get all these
things in place, to like dealwith all the growth that we had
just put in um.
And then that turned out tokind of be a blessing in
disguise, because that was rightbefore the 2008 recession and
(27:43):
we had like bank financing andthings like that in place for
long enough that we were able tosustainably like get through
that phase.
So it was kind of like ablessing in disguise, because I
have a lot of friends in thatearly on phase who had to take
like hiatuses from theirbusinesses because they just
their loans got pulled orwhatever, and so we were able to
be up and running enough tokeep going through that, which I
(28:08):
think was also really helpfulwhen the pandemic hit, because I
was like I'm not doing thistwice.
So when they listed like all thebusinesses that could stay open
or whatever, I was like, okay,we need to be on that list.
Like we need to.
Whatever it is, we need tofigure out how to be on that
list that gets to stay open.
I was like because if I have tolike shut down, I don't think I
can, like I don't think I cando this again, so we have to
(28:29):
like figure out how to stay open.
You know, and so you did, andso we did.
Yeah, and I think you know,because I, you know I'm really
good with numbers.
I love the finance side of thebusiness.
I love, you know, I'm alwayslooking at our numbers and our
finance.
I was able to, you know, wetook advantage of a lot of the
subsidies and a lot of the wagesubsidies and things like that
(28:53):
and really dig into like how arewe going to best manage our,
our business, to kind of getthrough this, and also like
getting credit when you don'tneed credit.
That's like my favorite tipright when things are good, is
when you push your likeoperating line limit Right,
because during the pandemic, welike, we, it was big, we, you
(29:14):
couldn't well, you couldn't doanything Right.
But we like scraped, you know,in order to stay up and to keep
and to support our business, wescraped the very bottom of that
barrel before you know comingback out and there's no way you
could have gotten that money atthat time.
Julie (29:26):
You needed to go in already having it in place.
That's great advice for otherentrepreneurs, yeah.
Jacqueline (29:40):
I was really surprised at that time by how
many fellow entrepreneurs do nothave deep operating lines.
That's like my number oneadvice like as deep as you can
get, we'll stop Right.
Like I was really surprisedwhen I talked to people that
were like, oh, I only have likea $20,000 operating line or a
$40,000.
I was like no, no, hundreds ofthousands of dollars operating
line.
Like as, push that limit as faras you can get it when you
(30:00):
don't need it, so that it'sthere in case you do.
Julie (30:04):
Yeah, being able to have any kind of forward vision on it
, as opposed to rearview mirrorof like oh, that broke and it
really broke.
Jacqueline (30:11):
Yeah, I mean, I think finding the right people
who are comfortable saying howare we going to do this versus
this is how we always did it.
We've had a couple of like fullsort of full staff turnovers
over the years, because in thebeginning you have generalists
who like to do everything andthen as you start to bring in
specialists, the generalistsdon't like to give up parts of
(30:33):
their job, and I think that'sreally challenging for people to
understand.
Like I'm bringing in morepeople so you can do your job
better, but they're like butyou're taking away part of my
job.
I was like no, I'm really justkind of helping you do what you
do best.
So I think that's kind of afascinating.
That's always fascinating forme is because some people are
(30:54):
forward-looking and some peopleare not, and that's always a
challenge.
Right, like well, that's how wedo this.
I was like well, that's how wedid it at this scale, but that
we're not going to be able to dothat at this scale, and that's
why I think you know we don'thave a lot of time right now to
like blue sky as a team, like Ithink that's one thing I'm not
doing as much of that I used to,or like teaching people like
(31:22):
let's try to figure this out,right.
Like how would we do this if wehad five times as much volume
going through here?
Because when you say somethingcrazy like that, then they can't
just be like oh well, we printit out and we enter it here and
we bring it over to that deskand we pile it up there.
And I was like, was like well,not if you had five times as
much, right yeah, yeah, it's thelike you know.
You can only run faster for solong before you've got to do
(31:44):
things in an entirely new way soyeah, yeah so we're open to
doing things in a new way, and Ithink that's definitely
something that we have theluxury of pushing for right now,
cause sometimes you don't havethe luxury to do what you want
to do Sometimes you're like Ireally want to do it this way,
but I don't get to Right, and soI think that that's really
(32:06):
interesting for me is to be ableto like push through the luxury
of like being able to do thatRight.
Julie (32:11):
So yes, yeah, the difference between going through
those phases where you're justtrying to keep your head above
water to the phases where youcan actually be like what if it
was five times as much?
What would that look like?
How could we do things?
What could we change now tohelp us be there more easily?
Jacqueline (32:29):
like getting to be choosier about who you work with
.
Like I often say, now I'm notgonna.
I'm not teaching anyone how todo their job anymore.
You have to come to the tableknowing how to do your job well,
and it used to be like I can'tafford the person who can do
their job well, or I, you knowor they or they don't want to
work with me because I'm toosmall right now.
(32:50):
Small right now.
Yeah, exactly Right.
And that getting that shift ofthat sort of shift of power, I
guess a little bit has beengreat.
I was like what's the word?
Julie (33:00):
I was like the word is great.
Yeah, it's just great, greatand so.
And so, what's next for you?
What's next for for Jacquelinethe entrepreneur?
What's next for Soak?
Jacqueline (33:11):
uh well, we're coming up to our 20th
anniversary, so we have a bigproject on the horizon, um,
which I'm excited about.
We just acquired so fine threadgloss, which is a small
canadian company which is Idon't even know if I have one on
my desk near me, but it's athread gloss for um sewing and
it fit really nicely.
So I always tell people likeyou can, um, you know, find a
new rock to roll up your hill,or you can take your rock and
(33:33):
roll it up another hill, butlike a new rock and a new hill
is a new business, like thatclassic expression.
So thread gloss is like a newrock up our hill.
Um, it was a company, acanadian company, that wanted to
stay canadian, made um and justcouldn't scale.
It was a part-time business forsomeone, an awesome woman named
jen um, and she approached usand it's really, you know, know,
(33:54):
aligned with us from a pricingstandpoint, from a care
standpoint.
It's more on the maker sidethan the lingerie apparel side,
but still a great Canadian story.
And we have all thosedistributors.
So now we're just at thebeginning of marketing it and
getting it back out on a moreregular and consistent basis to
our customers.
So that's exciting.
(34:14):
Plus, it was really goodlearning to do that little
acquisition.
It was like the right scale.
It was a good scale forlearning about business
acquisition and that kind ofthing.
Um, and then for me I mean I'mgoing to try this.
I really I don't believe in NewYear's resolutions and
recapping the year and stufflike that.
So try to stay away from thatstuff this time of year.
(34:35):
But um cause, also, our fiscalyear is September.
Julie (34:39):
Um, yes, so it makes sense that you're doing more
things at that time.
Jacqueline (34:43):
Yeah, yeah, we also.
We don't like our customers arepredominantly women and, as
like avant-garde as we all wantto be, most women are dealing
with holiday things that do notinvolve themselves.
So we do not peak in Q4.
We have a pretty steadybusiness, you know, in the
summer, where people wear less,you need better lingerie and you
(35:04):
wash it more often when you'resweating, and then also in the
winter, when you're a maker andyou're in your making mode.
It's often January, because it'slike I do all the stuff for my
family or for everybody else inmy life over the holidays, and
then in January I like buy myyard and start knitting or
making or doing all the things.
So so summer's big for us,january is big for us, like the
traditional cleaning, laundryand spring cleaning kind of
(35:25):
season, but we're pretty flat.
So we don't have a big kind ofholiday queue for.
But I would like to get back tohaving more forward planning
time, because when you're sobusy in the, in the present you
time, because when you're sobusy in the, in the present you
don't have a lot of forwardplanning.
And I'm yeah, you need to do thelook up and the pull up right
Every so often to help youDefinitely haven't had time to
(35:45):
do the um look up and pull up umrecently because we've been so
overwhelmed Um, and so that's athing that I definitely have to
add in.
And we're not, you know, we'renot like, yeah, I'm not like
crazy huge, giant, unattainablegoal kind of person.
I'm pretty realist, I'm prettymuch a realist.
So, um, yeah, so, but I do havesome, you know, kind of bigger
(36:09):
projects, so, and it's also kindof like balancing the reality
of like people and time andhours.
Like you can have crazy biggoals but you either require
like people or money.
Julie (36:19):
Yes, that's figuring out.
It is figuring out how to pacethem and what you can do and how
to get where you want to go.
Jacqueline (36:26):
Yeah, the only true I mean in my experience, the
only true way to like scalefaster than that is a huge um, a
huge influx of money which canbring you more people right
Cause otherwise there's only somany hours in the day, so, um,
I'm always kind of toying withthat.
I'm very, you know, I haven'tdone a real growth pitch deck
plan thing since 2008, since Idid it when I was in school and
(36:46):
I definitely feel like I'm duefor that um, because I'm not
yeah, and that's where the,that's where the what if it was
five times or ten times bigger?
Julie (36:54):
and how would you do things differently?
Really would would play out foryou in that process.
Jacqueline (37:00):
Yeah, because we do have.
It's pretty easy from like asales remnant and standpoint
with our different distributorsand stuff to really map out that
growth.
But it's another thing to beable to get there quickly.
So I do feel like that is on mylist of things I want to do.
But then again, you know, withthe day to day of operations
like you know we, you know Idon't, I know we don't sometimes
the podcast you're likesensitive to like what season it
(37:21):
is or what date it is.
But right now you know, if wewant to timestamp this, you know
President Elect Trump and hisUS tariff is, like you know,
tariff threats are on thehorizon and so for as much time
as I want to allocate to likeblue skying in the month of
December, I'm actually doingrisk mitigation analysis because
60% of the business is in theUS.
So it's like, yeah, I can takethe time that's blocked in my
(37:42):
calendar to do high growthplanning, except, like that is
unfortunately the first stuffthat gets wiped out when you
have, you know, these otherissues that you have come in
from the side.
Julie (37:52):
Yeah, yeah.
And so it's figuring out how tonot get too caught in that it's
always issues coming in Right,and to find that balance of of
uh swing swinging in betweenthem.
Yeah exactly.
Jacqueline (38:05):
So, um, I think that's one of my kind of
personal goals, Um, and alsolike really just being aware
that I, you know I have, I haveyoung kids and you know everyone
has families, whether they'reyoung, whether they're old or
whether it's just themselves.
We're really aware at Soak thatpeople, you know, people first,
we always say family first andthere are no detergent
(38:25):
emergencies, and so sometimesyou really have to say that to
people.
So, really making sure people,you know, have their time off,
get their breaks, do their thing, you know, have their time off,
get their breaks, do theirthing, Because, again, you know
we're not, you know we're doingI think it's important work and
and offering an importantproduct to the market, and also
(38:45):
like we're not saving lives so.
Julie (38:46):
So finding balance in all the things is a key part.
It's also probably why you'vebeen able to have longevity.
It makes a big difference.
Jacqueline (38:54):
I think.
So, yeah, think that you knowwe really want.
You know I love like, I lovebeing in like a category that
has less competitors.
And I'm not talking about, like, traditional detergent, I'm
talking about specialtydetergent.
Um, because I go to, you know,the knitting trade show and
everybody makes yarn and I waslike, well, it could be worse,
you could make yarn.
You know I like to.
(39:17):
You know it's a harder, it's a,it's a more uphill battle to be
in such a, in a smallercategory, but I think it's more
interesting.
You get to be more nimble andyou get to have, you know, be a
little more creative with it.
So I like that aspect of it.
Um, so, from that's, that'spart of the good.
Julie (39:35):
well, I cannot wait to see where you go from here and
I'm going to look forward withexcitement to seeing your 20
year um special project come tolife.
Jacqueline (39:45):
I can't believe that .
I don't even know how we got.
I don't even know how that manyyears went by, so oh, it's so
good.
Julie (39:51):
It's so good.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me today.
My pleasure, good, well, thankyou so much for joining me today
my pleasure.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
podcast platform so you won'tmiss any episodes.
Figure eight isn't just apodcast.
It's a way of seeing the big,gorgeous goals of women
(40:12):
entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
book Big, gorgeous Goals onAmazon, anywhere you might live,
for more about my growth andleadership training programs.
Visit wwwjulieellisca to seehow we might work together.
(40:32):
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
Once again, that'swwwjulieellisca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure 8.
Welcome to Figure Eight, where we feature inspiring
stories of women entrepreneurswho have grown their businesses
to seven and eight figuresrevenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, Julie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book, BigGorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure 8.
Today I'm talking withJacqueline Sava, and Jacqueline
(01:10):
founded her company Soak Washalmost 20 years ago.
She makes a beautiful wash forall of your most important
delicate items that you havecrafted, worn, made all of the
different places, and so she isat the helm of the company and
is the director of possibilities, and they sell their soap wash
(01:34):
all over the world.
She's built an e-commercebusiness, she's gone to
distribution, and it is alwaysan interesting journey, as we're
going to talk about today.
It is always an interestingjourney as we're going to talk
about today.
Soak Wash is made in Canada andit's free of dyes and
phosphates, ammonia and harshsurfactants, which are the
things that separate the dirtaway from your clothes, and so
(01:56):
she is also working in the spaceof sustainability and how we
look after the things that weown.
I want to say welcome to you andthanks for joining me,
Jacqueline.
thanks for having me.
Thanks, it's so good to talk toyou.
Do you want to tell me a littlebit about how you came to start
this business and what it'sbeen like for you over the last
(02:16):
almost 20 years?
the detergent trajectory.
I was designing knitwear.
So my background is industrialdesign, so product design, and I
was designing knitwear while Iwas doing my thesis at Rhode
Island School of Design.
And then when I graduated I wasstill doing knitwear.
So I was hats and accessories,scarves, mittens, machine knit
(02:40):
pieces and cut and sewn.
And when I started selling myknitwear, um, people were asking
how to take care of it, and soI was selling it at craft shows
like one of a kind and that kindof thing.
And then I did get a wholesalelike a distributor selling my
knit accessories, and it keptcoming back how do we take care
of this?
And we would say, um, yousnuggle, use baby shampoo?
(03:01):
Um, and then I was like thisisn't really the right answer.
And so I have a real corememory I had lunch with a
colleague who worked in plasticsmanufacturing, where I had been
doing some consulting work andshe worked for a co packer, so
someone who does private labelpackaging of soaps and stuff
(03:21):
like that.
And so she'd come to lunch andshe'd bring me like a bubble
bath or a shampoo where thelabel is backwards or like a lab
sample, do you like thisfragrance?
And she'd always bring me thesetreats.
And so I said to her one dayover lunch.
I said I wonder if we can makea wool wash that goes with the
knits.
And so that's how we developthe formula from a skincare
background.
So we call it skincare for yourclothing with, like, naturally
(03:42):
derived ingredients from askincare background.
So it's so gentle you couldtake a bath in it.
That's kind of how that started.
And so Soak was originally asecondary product to go with my
knitwear.
And then, um, you know, thingsexploded from there.
So it was our knitwear at thedistributor with like a soak
sitting next to it.
And then we just startedgetting these inquiries about
(04:03):
soak.
And then someone said you know,there's this knitting industry
and you could sell it to yarnstores, not just for finished
knits.
And so my mom and I went to ourfirst knitting trade show and we
sent out all these bottleshaped postcards and we did this
like big mail merge.
I can remember, like you know,over the, you know you're single
right, so you're over theholidays and you have like the
tv trays around the sofa andyou're watching movies, stuffing
envelopes with postcards.
(04:24):
Like literal mail, merge Right.
And so we sent out all thesepostcards that was like come to
the booth for a free sample.
And then we walked in theconvention center and there was
like this massive lineup ofpeople at our booth.
Like it was like we didn't evensay hello to each other for
like five hours and that waskind of the beginning of Soak
that's amazing, and that waskind of the beginning of Soak.
(04:45):
That's amazing, well, and it does make sense, though,
that when you're washing yourmost special things that you are
also going to wear, that youwant them to be washed with
something really nice.
Jacqueline (04:54):
For sure, and we've learned that at Soak.
We try to take the fear out ofhand washing and bring people we
call it from fear to elation.
Because a lot of people don'twear their favorite things
because they don't know howthey're going to take care of
them.
So we might buy cashmere socksor get fitted for a great bra or
splurge on a sweater or have agreat dress, but we don't wear
it all the time because we'reafraid we're going to spill
something on it or we're goingto get it dirty, or we're not
(05:16):
and we don't know how to cleanit, or we like wear it once and
then we just like it out for awhile.
So at Soak we really want toteach people to take care of
those things, because you feelbetter when you wear your
favorite clothes, whether it'seven if it's something at home,
like if you have an antiquequilt or you have a blanket that
you love like.
You feel better when you'recozy underneath it and you're
not gonna like really use itunless you're comfortable with
(05:38):
how you're going to take care ofit.
Julie (05:39):
Yeah, I think that's so true.
So, obviously, from that veryfirst trade show, where you have
that huge lineup, to where youare today, which is, you know,
with a team and you knowmultiple currencies, lots of
different countries, like allthe things that have happened,
how would you say you havechanged over the time that you
(06:01):
have grown this business?
Jacqueline (06:04):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, I mean, you know, oncethe soap kind of got going, I
went back to school part-time,at night, and did my MBA,
because I realized prettyquickly that I didn't have the
skill set that I needed to makethese decisions and to grow the
business, because I have a BFA,um, before that, industrial
(06:24):
design.
So I definitely decided Ineeded to know more.
Um, and then, oh, I mean the,the learning curve, I mean it's
so, it's steep, right, like Ididn't.
You know that first summer weshipped all those orders and we
filled out the paperwork wrongand all the shipping and customs
charges got sent to thecustomers.
(06:51):
So, yeah, like that first summer, all we did was like, and you,
and because it went all on theircourier accounts, you couldn't
just solve the problem.
You had to wait for, like, eachperson to realize that there
was a problem and then solve theproblem.
So, um, yeah, just learning,like the multitude of things
that we didn't even know, thatwe didn't know.
That's my favorite question.
Like, tell me what I don't knowthat I don't know, because I
know what I don't know, but Idon't know what I don't know
that I don't know, and that'swhere I'm going to get in
(07:12):
trouble.
So sort of my go-to question.
Julie (07:16):
And so, and what's it like?
I mean, I just think you're avery smart person, you got a
graduate degree in business andyou're an entrepreneur, and do
you still?
I know you still find so manythings you still don't know.
Like, how is it that that isthe constant journey of
entrepreneurship?
Jacqueline (07:37):
Well, I mean, I never worked in a big consumer
package good company.
So, um, pros and cons, right,pros, nimble, I have a good
vision, I know what I want to do, I figure out how I'm going to
get there.
But we've always been likewhat's the problem, how we're
going to solve it, versus likewhat's the strategy and how
(07:59):
we're going to apply it.
So, um, our vp, now my vp, suzmagical, and I love her.
I've known her for even beforeI started the business and when
she was looking for a new job Iwas like this is going to sound
really weird, but I would likefirst rights of refusal.
I was like I don't know howmuch money you make, I don't
know what you want to do, but Iwould like first rights of
refusal.
For us to have a conversation,because she's come from a
(08:19):
corporate background, so we willoften like go full two halves
of the circle to come to thesame spot.
And even if it's like numbersforecasting risk how much of our
market is, you know whatpercent of our market is in this
territory work with thosebigger corporate restraints,
whether it's about margins,whether it's about distribution,
whether it's about not goingtoo fast, you know.
(08:55):
And then I come from more of anentrepreneurial perspective
which is like this is wherewe're going, this is where we're
doing, this is how we'regetting there, and so that
balance of trying to pushforward and then still kind of
validating is good.
And it's not to say that Idon't know what my margins are
and look at them, but justthere's, you know, it's just
like a different kind of, it'slike a different kind of math
that we use to kind of get tothe same spot.
(09:16):
Um, so I think that's you know,and part of me wishes I had had
that background before, andthen part of me is really glad
that I didn't have thatbackground.
So it's kind of hard to knowsometimes, you know, because
sometimes I'm like I sometimes Isay like what would I do if I
were a real company?
Julie (09:34):
I'm almost 20 years in.
Jacqueline (09:35):
maybe I am, but it's funny, right, because you don't
feel like it, right, becausepeople like I talked to somebody
the other day who's doing likea really innovative washing
situation and they were like wetested all these detergents and
yours work the best and we wantto move forward with yours as
our preferred detergent for thiswashing system.
(09:56):
And I was like what you know,like it still sounded really.
It still sounded really crazyto me, because I look at a
bottle of soap and I and I stillsee it as like, like a project,
right.
Um, even like I went to Polandlast year and we visited like
tons of stores that carry ourproduct and people who've been
selling our product for a decade, and they're like, you know,
you always have to make this,don't ever stop, whatever.
(10:17):
And I'm like looking at it withPolish labels and I'm like, is
this real?
Like, for me, it sort of stilldoesn always seem real, which I
think is also a sign that it'sstill fun and good for me to
work on.
But I you know other people arejust like oh, of course it's
Soak, right.
I'm like, oh, okay, sure, yeah.
Julie (10:36):
It is so interesting.
Well and we've talked about, Imean, how the challenge of you
know, scaling up this businesswhere you're selling many, many,
many small items like your, youknow your ticket price is small
and and what that looks likecompared to you know somebody
who's selling $10,000 items whenyou're selling $10 items, is
(10:58):
very, very different in terms ofwhat complexities come to play.
Jacqueline (11:03):
Yeah, we are suffering from, like, the
problems for a business thattypically, with an overall
revenue, is much bigger thanours, so we are always perceived
to be bigger than we are.
Also because we've done areally excellent job at branding
and positioning and marketing.
Like I was at a lingerie tradeshow in New York and there was
kind of this like brand speeddating thing and with buyers and
(11:25):
brands, and I was like this isnew, I'm going to, I'll do this.
And so I was talking to thiswoman.
She had a store in WashingtonDC.
I really she's like I reallylove Soak, it's really great.
But we're our focus is reallysupporting, you know, women
owned businesses, independentbusinesses, small businesses.
You know we don't I love yourwash but I don't really want to
buy from like a giantconglomerate and I was like okay
.
And I was like okay, let's like, let's start this conversation
(11:48):
again.
I was like so my last 10messages are, like you know, my
husband trying to figure outwhich lighting to put in our new
renovated office.
And like these are the picturesof my kids in the warehouse.
And there are eight of us andwe're women owned and you know
we're really little and like youknow.
So she just fully like, justperceived we were like this
giant detergent brand you know,um, and of course then she
ordered soak and good customerand all those kind of things.
(12:10):
But it was really I find itreally fascinating because
people have like a much biggerlike perception of where we are
and it's, you know, it's onpurpose.
We launched, with really strongmarketing, a lot of product
photography.
You know, taking a picture ofliquid in a bottle is really
hard.
So we, even on day one, welaunched with a full, you know,
we used Flickr back in the dayif that doesn't, if that doesn't
date us, I don't know what willbut we launched with a database
(12:31):
on Flickr where our customersand media could use the images
that we produce, so that we'dhave brand continuity.
So it's kind of this mix oflike big brand games, even
though we're like a smallerbrand in that sense.
So yeah, which is, which isreally an interesting way to
(12:54):
position yourself.
Yeah, I mean we're, we're apremium wash.
We, because we're made inCanada, because we have high
quality ingredients, because weuse post-consumer resin plastic
and also because competing onprices like we knew from the
beginning, completing on priceis not going to get you anywhere
in this category.
One like from a traditionaldetergent standpoint and two
like as a small business inCanada.
If we, if we position on pricelike somebody can always be
(13:15):
cheaper, that's not where we'regoing to, where we're going to
be.
So we've always positionedourselves on like we want to be
the wash that's next to theclothes you love, love most and
that you trust and take care ofit.
Because once we have that trustwith our customers then then
it's solidified and it kind ofgrows.
But it is true that, like abottle retails for 18 and so
when you work back to likewholesale pricing or distributor
pricing, we are running a lotof bottles, um, a lot of bottles
(13:38):
through our, through ourwarehouse and through our
spreadsheets and through ourmath and even our little single
use samples.
I mean they are like a giftwith purchase.
We order them like 200 000 atime, several times a year.
So there's a lot of, a lot oflittle units going through.
So, yeah, maybe my nextbusiness.
We joke like diamonds, right,like high value, small scale,
everyone in the industry and Idon't want to go there.
(14:01):
But if I have to think aboutlike business number two, it's
definitely like high value,small size.
Julie (14:06):
Yeah, and that has different problems attached to
it.
That's the part I'm interestedin, because I mean, at Mabel's
Labels, we did 25% of our salesin one month of the year.
That month was August, and soyou have to act like you're
going to do that amount of salesin every single month.
You need to, you know, thinkabout your supply chain and does
your website have enoughbandwidth?
(14:27):
And it's so.
I mean, that was one of our bigproblems and, like every
challenge is hard to solve inits own way.
Jacqueline (14:35):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I had.
I met someone when we werereally little and he was, I feel
like he was like somebody Iknew's father, who was in
business or whatever and he said, like you're always going to
have problems and challenges,they're just going to get bigger
and different.
And at the time I didn'tunderstand it and now I
absolutely understand it.
So I'm not afraid of problemsand challenges, I like that and
(14:57):
they are just, they're alwaysthere, they're always just
bigger and they're always justdifferent.
Julie (15:01):
And that idea that it's like a closed system, like as
soon as you overcome anychallenge, be it big or small,
it will reveal the next one,like there's a whole process of
like the challenges don't end,so you can't actually like ever
be like huh, I think I'm done.
Jacqueline (15:19):
Yeah, for sure, and I and I love, I love that about
it.
You know, when I'm reallyexhausted of work and not so
much post-pandemic, because I doa mix of working at home and at
the office but when I used tocommute every day to the office,
I'd be like, okay, if I don'twant to go to work, I'm going to
get in the car, think ofsomething I would rather do
(15:44):
between when I leave and when Iget to my office.
Then I can like contemplate,exploring, doing something else.
But if I can't think ofsomething else that I would
rather do than this total storm,then I have to go to work that
day.
So that was sort of how I would, you know, and like maybe once
or twice I would just divert andgo to the rowing club and be
like, actually what I need to dois like, yeah, no, there's not
anything else that I want to domore than this.
So have at her, you know.
Julie (16:07):
Yeah, and even going for the workout doesn't mean you
don't want to do this.
It means you need some space toclear your head, exactly.
Jacqueline (16:14):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's cleaning your
head.
I think is one of the hardestthings because there are only so
many hours in the day, soreally allocating time to clear
your head is pretty important.
Yeah.
Julie (16:30):
And what would you say?
Jacqueline (16:31):
the best things have been for you about growing this
business.
I really love the amount ofpeople like the people that we
get to work with and thecountries that we get to go to
Traveling for work is hard.
I have another trip in two daysand I'm like manic.
I'm never a friendly person theday before I travel.
Everybody on our team,including my husband, knows that
but I think that for me, it'sthe people like we don't set.
(16:53):
We're not just a d2c brand.
We sell through distributors,we sell through stores, and so
the amount of people whose livesare enriched by getting to sell
soak is as amazing for me as itis just the people whose lives
are enriched for having theproduct and using it at home,
because not only contributing tothe income of, like my whole
(17:14):
team which I think is amazingthat I like keep people employed
, that's very cool but also theamount of revenue that it
generates for like the I don'tknow somewhere near a thousand
probably independent retailersthat sell our product as well,
right, and I think that's reallycool.
And because Soaks is a careproduct.
So if you're a lingerie shopand somebody comes in to buy a
(17:37):
bra, you want to teach them howto take care of it because if
they throw their bra in thewashing machine and it gets all
twisted and mangled, they're notgoing to blame themselves,
they're not going to blame thebra, they're going to come back
to the shop owner and be likeyou sold me a crappy bra, you
sold me a bra that will gettangled, and so Soak helps kind
of mitigate that risk for theshop owner as well and so it
(17:57):
adds value for them to make thembe able to give something to
their customer of value as well,to help kind of mitigate that
risk of unhappy customers.
So I really love the people thatwe meet and that's one of my
favorite parts about traveling,like when I went to Poland, as I
said, and we did store visits,or whether I'm at a trade show
or we do a couple, do a coupleof big consumer events a year
(18:18):
where we get to be face-to-facewith our end users as well and
talk to them and thencollaborating with brands and
and that kind of thing.
So I really love.
I really love that aspect of it.
Julie (18:28):
Yeah Well, and I think it's that like.
It gives you that ability toeducate as well, for people to
learn how they can talk to theircustomers in a way that you
know it extends the life oftheir product and, you know,
puts them in that trusted kindof you know position for the
(18:48):
customer.
Jacqueline (18:49):
Yeah, and education is one of our values, and so
it's not just about educatingpeople on how to use Soak.
It's about educating people onhow to do business better.
Like we make an upsell product,like we're the shoe polish to
the soak.
It's about educating people onhow to do business better, like
we make an upsell product, likewe're the shoe polish to the
shoes.
So you want to make more money.
You can't sell more shoes shallsell everybody shoe polish,
right.
So you know, if you add soakonto your transaction, you will
make more money per transaction.
(19:10):
So we do a lot of educating forour customers on how to make
more money in their shops or howto merchandise in their shops
or how to cross sell things intheir shops, and also in our
team we try to work hard to givepeople educational
opportunities as well, like whatis it that you want to know
about the business that's notunder your wheelhouse, that you
want to learn, right?
How do you want to be a betterperson?
How do you want to communicatebetter?
How do you want to train peoplebetter?
(19:30):
So it's really how do you wantto grow as a person?
So for us at Soak, it's asimportant about how you're going
to grow as an individual, as itis about how you're going to do
the functional tasks of yourjob, and that's something I'm
really leaning into movingforward, because, you know, our
warehouse team are the peoplewho touch the product before it
gets into your hands, right, sothey're a very important part of
(19:51):
the process, right, everybodyhas an option, an opportunity to
learn, to grow, to develop.
Everybody has an option, anopportunity to learn, to grow,
to develop, and so we do do alot of training.
So it's not just how do youtake care of your sweater that
you've worn for, you know, we,we always the person who's like
oh, I was in Ireland 20 yearsago.
I brought this beautiful Irishsweater.
I've never washed it.
Okay, you know, not only thatexperience of like what you
(20:13):
should feel like when you have afreshly washed, a freshly
soaked sweater all the way to.
You know, can we help a shopowner make more money in their
store?
Right, cause we are all in,we're in business.
We're not in nonprofit, we'rein business.
So how can I help you make moremoney in your store, or a
distributor make more money?
So that educational aspect, Ireally, I really love seeing
(20:36):
people kind of learn and benefitfrom something that we created.
It's pretty cool.
Julie (20:40):
That is very cool.
How long into your journey didyou decide that you wanted to
create values for the company?
Jacqueline (20:50):
Well, we started Soak as a secondary product and
we have, like we're coming closeto our 20th anniversary in 2026
.
And we sort of have like aloose start date.
We kind of had to create onebecause we didn't really have a
finite date, because it kind ofevolved from the knitwear
business and in 2008, weactually did a lot of work about
like values.
That's when we developed theconcept of soak worthy, soak
(21:12):
worthiness and what is soakworthy and what does that mean,
and actually really giving it adefinition, definition and
having values and stuff, becausewe had a goal of what we were
trying to do.
And then, all of a sudden,within a couple years, the
market was kind of reflectingback to us what was important.
So, two years in is when we seta lot of those guiding
principles in place.
Um, and then I feel like we'rekind of going through a little
(21:34):
bit of a renaissance in terms ofmaking sure that we're really
living those all the way throughour whole organization.
And then a few years ago, whenwe started the process of
updating our website, we reallywere looking at what our you
know, what our brand pillars are, what our profiles are, how
they're evolving with themarketplace and the industry are
(21:57):
how they're evolving with themarketplace and the industry.
You know, we started usingpost-consumer resin for our
bottles in 2012, when it wasmore expensive and not really
readily available, you know.
And then people like, well, whyaren't you like talking
sustainability more?
And I was like, well, becausewe already been doing that
already.
That's just what we do, youknow.
So trying to also feel likewhat pillars have longevity
versus which ones are trendy.
Julie (22:22):
Yeah, and then it is interesting because, although
you've been doing it for a longtime, yeah, what's the like
we're still here and we're stillsustainable?
Jacqueline (22:29):
aspect to um, you know they they talk about like
how you have to tell people overand over and over again, right,
yeah, we've not always been thebest at telling people over and
over again, because we yeah,we've not always been the best
at telling people over and overagain, because we also are
consumers and we don't like toget like bombarded.
And also, if you don't tellpeople over and over again, they
don't know.
And also, like, sometimes youhave to look at.
I think the things that areinteresting for me are like we
(22:50):
make.
I make liquid.
It's in a plastic bottle.
I order 100,000 plastic bottlesat a time.
I understand that the worlddoes not want more plastic
bottles and also the worlddoesn't want to pay for glass
and the world doesn't want totransport glass and the world is
not ready for recycling glassright now at the price point and
volumes where we are.
So there's always this like youknow what is what is
(23:13):
sustainable and also what arepeople willing to pay for?
Right, because and and that Ithink has a lot to do with scale
, because I can formulate a washthat is organic and I can't
really sell it.
You know what I mean Like, likepeople won't pay for it, for
what it costs, and also we'vealways been really true to like
(23:34):
around sustainability, like realinformation.
There's a lot of greenwashingI'm sure you've heard that
expression and especially aroundchemicals.
We are chemicals.
We go to chemistry class rightH2O chemical, right, water is a
chemical.
So there's this conversationaround like what is a chemical
and you know what is organic andwhat is sustainable and what is
(23:58):
biodegradable and that kind ofthing.
So we we get in those differentspaces to try to talk to people
and understand truly whatthings are out like.
It's a liquid in a bottle.
Water needs preservatives,water-based ingredients.
That's why, like, your lipstickis oil-based, it has no water.
That's why you can find yourgrandmother's and then you can
like pick it up and put it onright, because there's no water
(24:20):
in it, so there's no bacteriadeveloping there, you know.
But we need preservatives andwe need a product that's shelf
stable, because it's going to goin stores and it's going to sit
in the window where there's UVlight and temperature change and
that kind of thing.
So there's always this balancebetween being transparent with
what's in the product and howyou're marketing it, versus
(24:41):
still making sure something thatcan have like a proper P&L
where you can actually sell itright, because we're, all you
know, trying to pay for hockeylessons.
What can I say right, like youknow, when I first talked and I
used to lecture, I used to talkabout cat food because, like
when you're single, peopleassume that you can just like
eat ramen and craft dinner andbe fine.
But if I'm like I need enoughmoney at the end of the day to
(25:02):
buy cat food, they're like ohthe kitties, everybody wants the
cats to have like good food,right?
They're like you can survive onramen, depending on what you're
, you know.
Julie (25:23):
But yeah, I used to be like we need to have enough
money at the end of the day tobuy cat food.
Yeah, no, I think it's aninteresting point about how you
find your place in the sea ofclaims that you could make and
also in what's viable in termsof making real business out of
it, and then how you sort ofstand by the values that you
have to guide you as you makeall of those decisions.
Jacqueline (25:36):
Yeah, and I've done a lot of teaching and like
post-grad stuff on designstrategy and I've worked with
Lentero Crafts Council.
I have like a course that I didcalled From Maker to Making a
Living.
That was like helping peoplewho are on a small scale really
understand their pricing andunderstand what they're doing
and that they're actually makingmoney.
And it's not.
It's not from place of judgment, I don't.
I'm thrilled if you want to bein business, if you make five
(26:00):
units or 5,000 or 500,000,.
What I care about is that youunderstand what you need
personally, like financially, totake home for your family or
your life, and that yourbusiness is meeting those needs
right.
So it's not, it's not.
I'm all for like an organicdetergent that costs like forty
five dollars for a little amount, and if the person making that
can sustain a profitablebusiness doing that, then you
(26:24):
know, have at her.
Julie (26:27):
What have been some of your big challenges as you've
grown the business?
Yeah, um.
Jacqueline (26:36):
So we went through a round of like bc financing in
2008 when I was finishing my mba.
One of the um I did thismanaging venture growth and
transition course and one of theprofessors and one of the um
guests were interested ininvesting in soak to help us
scale and um to be to be part ofaccurate statistics.
(26:56):
That deal fell through at the11th and a half hour um through
no fault of mine.
Um just like an investor changeof lifestyle kind of situation,
and so that was a big challengebecause we had started to scale
up, I had hired people, I hadgot an office, I had done all
these things because we were inlike two years of normal due
diligence and everything wasalmost done and we signed the
papers one way and then theydidn't get signed back um.
(27:18):
So I can remember that daycrystal clearly um not a fun day
um, but in retrospect like weworked with our accountant at
the time to like get bankfinancing and to get all these
things in place, to like dealwith all the growth that we had
just put in um.
And then that turned out tokind of be a blessing in
disguise, because that was rightbefore the 2008 recession and
(27:43):
we had like bank financing andthings like that in place for
long enough that we were able tosustainably like get through
that phase.
So it was kind of like ablessing in disguise, because I
have a lot of friends in thatearly on phase who had to take
like hiatuses from theirbusinesses because they just
their loans got pulled orwhatever, and so we were able to
be up and running enough tokeep going through that, which I
(28:08):
think was also really helpfulwhen the pandemic hit, because I
was like I'm not doing thistwice.
So when they listed like all thebusinesses that could stay open
or whatever, I was like, okay,we need to be on that list.
Like we need to.
Whatever it is, we need tofigure out how to be on that
list that gets to stay open.
I was like because if I have tolike shut down, I don't think I
can, like I don't think I cando this again, so we have to
(28:29):
like figure out how to stay open.
You know, and so you did, andso we did.
Yeah, and I think you know,because I, you know I'm really
good with numbers.
I love the finance side of thebusiness.
I love, you know, I'm alwayslooking at our numbers and our
finance.
I was able to, you know, wetook advantage of a lot of the
subsidies and a lot of the wagesubsidies and things like that
(28:53):
and really dig into like how arewe going to best manage our,
our business, to kind of getthrough this, and also like
getting credit when you don'tneed credit.
That's like my favorite tipright when things are good, is
when you push your likeoperating line limit Right,
because during the pandemic, welike, we, it was big, we, you
(29:14):
couldn't well, you couldn't doanything Right.
But we like scraped, you know,in order to stay up and to keep
and to support our business, wescraped the very bottom of that
barrel before you know comingback out and there's no way you
could have gotten that money atthat time.
Julie (29:26):
You needed to go in already having it in place.
That's great advice for otherentrepreneurs, yeah.
Jacqueline (29:40):
I was really surprised at that time by how
many fellow entrepreneurs do nothave deep operating lines.
That's like my number oneadvice like as deep as you can
get, we'll stop Right.
Like I was really surprisedwhen I talked to people that
were like, oh, I only have likea $20,000 operating line or a
$40,000.
I was like no, no, hundreds ofthousands of dollars operating
line.
Like as, push that limit as faras you can get it when you
(30:00):
don't need it, so that it'sthere in case you do.
Julie (30:04):
Yeah, being able to have any kind of forward vision on it
, as opposed to rearview mirrorof like oh, that broke and it
really broke.
Jacqueline (30:11):
Yeah, I mean, I think finding the right people
who are comfortable saying howare we going to do this versus
this is how we always did it.
We've had a couple of like fullsort of full staff turnovers
over the years, because in thebeginning you have generalists
who like to do everything andthen as you start to bring in
specialists, the generalistsdon't like to give up parts of
(30:33):
their job, and I think that'sreally challenging for people to
understand.
Like I'm bringing in morepeople so you can do your job
better, but they're like butyou're taking away part of my
job.
I was like no, I'm really justkind of helping you do what you
do best.
So I think that's kind of afascinating.
That's always fascinating forme is because some people are
(30:54):
forward-looking and some peopleare not, and that's always a
challenge.
Right, like well, that's how wedo this.
I was like well, that's how wedid it at this scale, but that
we're not going to be able to dothat at this scale, and that's
why I think you know we don'thave a lot of time right now to
like blue sky as a team, like Ithink that's one thing I'm not
doing as much of that I used to,or like teaching people like
(31:22):
let's try to figure this out,right.
Like how would we do this if wehad five times as much volume
going through here?
Because when you say somethingcrazy like that, then they can't
just be like oh well, we printit out and we enter it here and
we bring it over to that deskand we pile it up there.
And I was like, was like well,not if you had five times as
much, right yeah, yeah, it's thelike you know.
You can only run faster for solong before you've got to do
(31:44):
things in an entirely new way soyeah, yeah so we're open to
doing things in a new way, and Ithink that's definitely
something that we have theluxury of pushing for right now,
cause sometimes you don't havethe luxury to do what you want
to do Sometimes you're like Ireally want to do it this way,
but I don't get to Right, and soI think that that's really
(32:06):
interesting for me is to be ableto like push through the luxury
of like being able to do thatRight.
Julie (32:11):
So yes, yeah, the difference between going through
those phases where you're justtrying to keep your head above
water to the phases where youcan actually be like what if it
was five times as much?
What would that look like?
How could we do things?
What could we change now tohelp us be there more easily?
Jacqueline (32:29):
like getting to be choosier about who you work with
.
Like I often say, now I'm notgonna.
I'm not teaching anyone how todo their job anymore.
You have to come to the tableknowing how to do your job well,
and it used to be like I can'tafford the person who can do
their job well, or I, you knowor they or they don't want to
work with me because I'm toosmall right now.
(32:50):
Small right now.
Yeah, exactly Right.
And that getting that shift ofthat sort of shift of power, I
guess a little bit has beengreat.
I was like what's the word?
Julie (33:00):
I was like the word is great.
Yeah, it's just great, greatand so.
And so, what's next for you?
What's next for for Jacquelinethe entrepreneur?
What's next for Soak?
Jacqueline (33:11):
uh well, we're coming up to our 20th
anniversary, so we have a bigproject on the horizon, um,
which I'm excited about.
We just acquired so fine threadgloss, which is a small
canadian company which is Idon't even know if I have one on
my desk near me, but it's athread gloss for um sewing and
it fit really nicely.
So I always tell people likeyou can, um, you know, find a
new rock to roll up your hill,or you can take your rock and
(33:33):
roll it up another hill, butlike a new rock and a new hill
is a new business, like thatclassic expression.
So thread gloss is like a newrock up our hill.
Um, it was a company, acanadian company, that wanted to
stay canadian, made um and justcouldn't scale.
It was a part-time business forsomeone, an awesome woman named
jen um, and she approached usand it's really, you know, know,
(33:54):
aligned with us from a pricingstandpoint, from a care
standpoint.
It's more on the maker sidethan the lingerie apparel side,
but still a great Canadian story.
And we have all thosedistributors.
So now we're just at thebeginning of marketing it and
getting it back out on a moreregular and consistent basis to
our customers.
So that's exciting.
(34:14):
Plus, it was really goodlearning to do that little
acquisition.
It was like the right scale.
It was a good scale forlearning about business
acquisition and that kind ofthing.
Um, and then for me I mean I'mgoing to try this.
I really I don't believe in NewYear's resolutions and
recapping the year and stufflike that.
So try to stay away from thatstuff this time of year.
(34:35):
But um cause, also, our fiscalyear is September.
Julie (34:39):
Um, yes, so it makes sense that you're doing more
things at that time.
Jacqueline (34:43):
Yeah, yeah, we also.
We don't like our customers arepredominantly women and, as
like avant-garde as we all wantto be, most women are dealing
with holiday things that do notinvolve themselves.
So we do not peak in Q4.
We have a pretty steadybusiness, you know, in the
summer, where people wear less,you need better lingerie and you
(35:04):
wash it more often when you'resweating, and then also in the
winter, when you're a maker andyou're in your making mode.
It's often January, because it'slike I do all the stuff for my
family or for everybody else inmy life over the holidays, and
then in January I like buy myyard and start knitting or
making or doing all the things.
So so summer's big for us,january is big for us, like the
traditional cleaning, laundryand spring cleaning kind of
(35:25):
season, but we're pretty flat.
So we don't have a big kind ofholiday queue for.
But I would like to get back tohaving more forward planning
time, because when you're sobusy in the, in the present you
time, because when you're sobusy in the, in the present you
don't have a lot of forwardplanning.
And I'm yeah, you need to do thelook up and the pull up right
Every so often to help youDefinitely haven't had time to
(35:45):
do the um look up and pull up umrecently because we've been so
overwhelmed Um, and so that's athing that I definitely have to
add in.
And we're not, you know, we'renot like, yeah, I'm not like
crazy huge, giant, unattainablegoal kind of person.
I'm pretty realist, I'm prettymuch a realist.
So, um, yeah, so, but I do havesome, you know, kind of bigger
(36:09):
projects, so, and it's also kindof like balancing the reality
of like people and time andhours.
Like you can have crazy biggoals but you either require
like people or money.
Julie (36:19):
Yes, that's figuring out.
It is figuring out how to pacethem and what you can do and how
to get where you want to go.
Jacqueline (36:26):
Yeah, the only true I mean in my experience, the
only true way to like scalefaster than that is a huge um, a
huge influx of money which canbring you more people right
Cause otherwise there's only somany hours in the day, so, um,
I'm always kind of toying withthat.
I'm very, you know, I haven'tdone a real growth pitch deck
plan thing since 2008, since Idid it when I was in school and
(36:46):
I definitely feel like I'm duefor that um, because I'm not
yeah, and that's where the,that's where the what if it was
five times or ten times bigger?
Julie (36:54):
and how would you do things differently?
Really would would play out foryou in that process.
Jacqueline (37:00):
Yeah, because we do have.
It's pretty easy from like asales remnant and standpoint
with our different distributorsand stuff to really map out that
growth.
But it's another thing to beable to get there quickly.
So I do feel like that is on mylist of things I want to do.
But then again, you know, withthe day to day of operations
like you know we, you know Idon't, I know we don't sometimes
the podcast you're likesensitive to like what season it
(37:21):
is or what date it is.
But right now you know, if wewant to timestamp this, you know
President Elect Trump and hisUS tariff is, like you know,
tariff threats are on thehorizon and so for as much time
as I want to allocate to likeblue skying in the month of
December, I'm actually doingrisk mitigation analysis because
60% of the business is in theUS.
So it's like, yeah, I can takethe time that's blocked in my
(37:42):
calendar to do high growthplanning, except, like that is
unfortunately the first stuffthat gets wiped out when you
have, you know, these otherissues that you have come in
from the side.
Julie (37:52):
Yeah, yeah.
And so it's figuring out how tonot get too caught in that it's
always issues coming in Right,and to find that balance of of
uh swing swinging in betweenthem.
Yeah exactly.
Jacqueline (38:05):
So, um, I think that's one of my kind of
personal goals, Um, and alsolike really just being aware
that I, you know I have, I haveyoung kids and you know everyone
has families, whether they'reyoung, whether they're old or
whether it's just themselves.
We're really aware at Soak thatpeople, you know, people first,
we always say family first andthere are no detergent
(38:25):
emergencies, and so sometimesyou really have to say that to
people.
So, really making sure people,you know, have their time off,
get their breaks, do their thing, you know, have their time off,
get their breaks, do theirthing, Because, again, you know
we're not, you know we're doingI think it's important work and
and offering an importantproduct to the market, and also
(38:45):
like we're not saving lives so.
Julie (38:46):
So finding balance in all the things is a key part.
It's also probably why you'vebeen able to have longevity.
It makes a big difference.
Jacqueline (38:54):
I think.
So, yeah, think that you knowwe really want.
You know I love like, I lovebeing in like a category that
has less competitors.
And I'm not talking about, like, traditional detergent, I'm
talking about specialtydetergent.
Um, because I go to, you know,the knitting trade show and
everybody makes yarn and I waslike, well, it could be worse,
you could make yarn.
You know I like to.
(39:17):
You know it's a harder, it's a,it's a more uphill battle to be
in such a, in a smallercategory, but I think it's more
interesting.
You get to be more nimble andyou get to have, you know, be a
little more creative with it.
So I like that aspect of it.
Um, so, from that's, that'spart of the good.
Julie (39:35):
well, I cannot wait to see where you go from here and
I'm going to look forward withexcitement to seeing your 20
year um special project come tolife.
Jacqueline (39:45):
I can't believe that .
I don't even know how we got.
I don't even know how that manyyears went by, so oh, it's so
good.
Julie (39:51):
It's so good.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me today.
My pleasure, good, well, thankyou so much for joining me today
my pleasure.
I hope you enjoyed today'sepisode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
podcast platform so you won'tmiss any episodes.
Figure eight isn't just apodcast.
It's a way of seeing the big,gorgeous goals of women
(40:12):
entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
book Big, gorgeous Goals onAmazon, anywhere you might live,
for more about my growth andleadership training programs.
Visit wwwjulieellisca to seehow we might work together.
(40:32):
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
Once again, that'swwwjulieellisca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure 8.
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