November 14, 2024 • 32 mins
Julie's Big Gorgeous Goals: Official Workbook is here! Order your copy today.
Margaret Coons, the innovative mind behind Nuts For Cheese, takes us through her inspiring entrepreneurial journey, from selling her artisanal vegan cheeses at a local farmer's market to conquering the grocery aisles across Canada and the U.S. Margaret shares her grassroots approach to retail, revealing the trials of negotiating listing fees and shelf space, and the valuable role supportive partners like Farm Boy have played in her success. You'll gain insights into the grocery industry's complexities and learn how persistence and strategic partnerships can pave the way for business growth.
Margaret Coons is the Founder & CEO of Nuts For Cheese, the market leader in artisan, organic, plant-based dairy manufacturing. Vegan from an early age, Margaret developed a passion for plant-based cuisine becoming a vegan chef and experimenting with nuts and seeds to create deliciously creamy plant-based cheeses. Since launching at a farmer’s market in 2015, Nuts For Cheese has enjoyed explosive growth across Canada and the United States with its award-winning artisanal and versatile dairy-free products available at national retailers, including Loblaws, Sobeys, Whole Foods Market, Sprouts Farmers Market, and more. Today, Nuts For Cheese is the #2 plant-based cheese brand in the Natural channel in the U.S. and is the #1 brand driving growth. Margaret sits on the board of CGLCC (Canada’s 2SLGBTQI+ Chamber of Commerce) and LEDC (London Economic Development Corporation). She was awarded the Top 25 Women of Influence Award in 2023 and was an Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award Finalist.
Julie and Margaret discuss...
00:00:04 Women Entrepreneurs Growing Successful Businesses
00:08:58 Building Team Cohesion in Growing Business
00:16:42 From Chef to Leader
00:25:00 Entrepreneurial Growth and Professionalization
Check out Nuts For Cheese on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook.
You can connect with Julie on LinkedIn or Instagram.
Find Julie's writing at her blog or by ordering her book Big Gorgeous Goals and the brand new official companion workbook!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Julie (00:04):
Welcome to Figure Eight, where we feature inspiring
stories of women entrepreneurswho have grown their businesses
to seven and eight figuresrevenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, ulie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book Big,gorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure 8.
(01:07):
Today I am in conversation withMargaret Coons.
She is the founder of Nuts forCheese and she started in 2015
making vegan cheese and going toher local farmer's market to
sell it.
She had a vision of using thehighest quality ingredients,
having it be certified organicand having no fillers, starches
(01:28):
or gums.
It was a simple goal to bringthe highest quality ingredients
to create the world's besttasting gourmet vegan cheese.
And all of that was nine yearsago, and I met Margaret in 2016
when she appeared at Lion's Laira pitch competition, and I have
(01:48):
eagerly followed her journey tobeing the number two cheese
brand vegan cheese brand inNorth America and I'm very
excited to have a conversationwith you today.
Welcome, Margaret.
Margaret (01:59):
Thanks so much for having me Happy to be here.
Julie (02:01):
I'm so glad to catch up with you and talk because I've
really loved following yourjourney and seeing how your
product offering has grown andyour business has grown, and so,
although I'm sure it's a lot offun and excitement, I know how
much hard work goes into that.
Margaret (02:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and a lot has changed since 2016,.
That's for sure.
Julie (02:23):
Right, well, and you know .
So, yes, I start thinking aboutpeople and production and
countries and all of the thingsthat you know are happening as
you're selling your product inretail stores.
Tell me a little bit about thatjourney.
Margaret (02:41):
For sure.
So we started back in 2015, asyou mentioned, at the farmer's
market and really it was quite agrassroots entry into retail in
those early days where I set upmy farmer's market booth, I set
up a social media page and awebsite and started getting some
requests from local retailersand restaurants that were keen
to support and carry the product.
(03:01):
And those early years was a lotof me reaching out to
individual health food stores orindependent retailers and
loading up my Toyota Corollawith coolers and driving product
all around southwestern Ontarioand into Toronto once or twice
a week and really kind ofdistributing on my own by hand
to these retailers that hadtaken an initial chance on us
(03:23):
and over time we were able togrow that list of retailers and
grow our manufacturingcapabilities, which I'm sure
we'll dig into in a little bit.
But it eventually went fromthat kind of personal touch
delivery to a distribution modelwith some internal team support
, some distributor support andgrowing most of retailers in
(03:45):
Canada and then the US.
Julie (03:48):
Yeah, and it is so interesting because I mean, when
I hear about the groceryindustry sort of in general,
they talk about large listingfees and that the path to market
into those big, big kind ofretailers can be an expensive
one.
Margaret (04:08):
You know, Absolutely.
Yeah, it for sure can be, and Ithink that's why it is really
important to evaluate the costof every retail venture that
you're embarking on, kind ofretailer by retailer.
Every different store is goingto have a different set of
requirements or expectations.
Every different store is goingto have a different set of
requirements or expectations andyou know, the way that we've
(04:32):
looked at it is to try to buildour list of retailers for what
we're ready for.
So our first large customer, forexample, is Farm Boy in Ontario
and that was our first timeever having to fill out a proper
listing form, the first time Iever had to put product on a
pallet and wrap it up, and thefirst time we ever had to use a
freight truck.
And you know, all of thesethings were brand new to me and
I think they were a veryfriendly partner to start out
with because you know they arereally supportive of small
(04:54):
business.
They want to have the best, youknow, local and store brand
products to offer theircustomers and they were very
collaborative from the beginningand that was a very kind of
good way to get my trainingwheels off with some of those
bigger customers.
And then by the time we startedto get into more listing forms
and things like listing fees andnegotiating shelf space, I was
(05:15):
a little bit more prepared forit.
Julie (05:16):
Yeah, and I think that's a really good point about when
you want to enter into sort ofthat, like getting into chain
type retail that finding apartner who will really work
with you, believes in yourproduct and wants to support you
, um is a really important part,because it's hard, like there's
(05:37):
all kinds of lingo and back.
You know the back.
Did your product get out of theback room?
Did it get on the shelves?
How are you supposed to know?
Did you even know you had toknow that?
Like there are just so manythings in that learning curve of
what it's like to deal with bigretailers.
Margaret (05:53):
For sure.
I remember, like looking upunder the table, what is an SRP,
what is an MCB, all thesedifferent acronyms.
The natural products industryand the kind of grocery industry
at large has so many differentacronyms that you know when
you're first starting out.
You kind of just fake it untilyou make it.
But yeah, absolutely.
Julie (06:11):
Yeah.
So if we kind of rewind back to2016, when we first met, you
were really, at that point,doing everything.
I mean, you may have had acouple of people working for you
, but you know, you were makingcheese, you were selling cheese,
(06:31):
you were doing social media.
You were like all of all of thepieces of that business were
revolving around you beinginvolved.
And obviously things havechanged a lot, and fairly
quickly, in terms of you knowhow you've had to think about
pulling out, hiring people,putting experts in place.
What has that journey been like?
Margaret (06:51):
You know I used to say it felt like my role had
changed entirely, like every sixmonths, and I wouldn't say that
that's untrue today, like I'mstill definitely growing and
learning.
My position you know every dayand it does change constantly.
But those early years, for sureyou know every day and it does
change constantly.
But those early years, for sure, you know, you went from chief
bottle washer and you know, inhouse accountant who you know,
I'm an English major.
(07:11):
I didn't have, you know, a tonof business experience.
My first business plan that Iever wrote was for the lion's
lair pitch competition.
So I didn't, you know, have aformal business plan.
When I, when I started thecompany, didn't know things like
how to incorporate, I used someof my Alliance Lair winnings
actually to incorporate thebusiness and set up my kind of
first legal structure, get ourtrademarks going.
All of that was really kind ofbrand new to me and I had a lot
(07:34):
to figure out.
But what I did know how to dowas to do everything to kind of
run the business operationallyand had a lot of grit and a lot
of drive and was really willingto be that person who was going
to stay, you know, late in thekitchen wrapping cheese and
saran wrap and putting stickerson it and taking it to the
farmer's market or loading up mycar the next morning and, you
know, driving in and out of thecity to drop off product and
(07:55):
then coming back to do thedishes.
And, you know, started toassemble a small team around me
in the early days who also kindof had that same mentality of
we'll do kind of what needs tobe done.
So I had folks who were helpingactually make the product, as
well as coming with me to tradeshows and coming to markets to
sell it.
I had, you know, people thatwere starting to be my kind of
first formation of a sales teamwho would help, you know, manage
(08:19):
different independent retailaccounts and also had a little
bit of, you know, background inbookkeeping so it could help me
figure out payroll and justthings like that, you know, kind
of starting to build a teamthat was willing to jump in
where it was needed.
Julie (08:32):
Yeah, and that sounds a lot like a great startup team in
terms of people who don't needyou telling them what needs to
be done.
They look around and see whatneeds to be done and they're
willing to just dive in and doit.
Margaret (08:46):
Yeah, definitely kind of an entrepreneurial spirit I
think you have to look for westill look for that with team
members that are joining ustoday, because there's still
very much of that mentality thateveryone chips in where it's
needed.
Julie (08:58):
Yeah, which is a great way like to build that culture
of the organization right,because that's so important and
it can be hard as it grows tohaving so many people right.
Like you just never necessarilyimagine having that many people
reporting to you when you starta business.
Margaret (09:16):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's so important to keep
everyone connected not only toeach other but to the kind of
greater vision and to theconsumer feedback and to what's
happening out in market.
I think it's really key to makesure everyone is feeling really
kind of tapped into the biggerpicture.
Julie (09:33):
Yeah, and so now your team is sort of distributed, so
you have your own manufacturingand we'll get to talking about
that because I'm curious aboutthe scale up on that but you've
got a big amount of team who'ssort of in your premises doing
work, and then you've got a teamwho's, I'm sure, scattered sort
of across Canada and the USworking to market, sell, do all
(09:58):
of the other pieces that don'trequire you know, you being in
the building necessarily.
What's it been like bringingthat team together in terms of
having them, you know, feelcohesive and feel like they are
pulling in that same direction,together towards the vision?
Margaret (10:16):
For sure.
I mean, I think for us, becausewe're a manufacturer, it did
start very centrally located.
Everyone on the team was basedin London,O ntario, and was able
to travel to the plant, and alot of our team, even if they
could work remote, if they livelocally, they still like to come
in and, you know, be a part ofwhat's going on and kind of have
their finger on the pulse andthey connect with everyone else
in the facility.
But when we started to sellinto the US and really kind of
(10:39):
grow larger in Canada, it wasactually also kind of right at
the beginning of COVID.
So it was an interesting timebecause I had gone down to the
States for a trade show, expoWest, which is the largest
natural products expo in NorthAmerica, and it was the show
that was canceled because ofCOVID.
But we were already in LA andso we had been down there and
had the opportunity to kind ofscout some initial retail
(11:00):
partners and have a few meetingsin lieu of the show taking
place.
And when we got back, that waswhen we really started to kind
of hit the ground running interms of expanding across the
border and that was when wefirst started to really
understand that, okay, we'regoing to need some folks who are
actually based in the US andwith everyone working remotely,
it also kind of made sense thatwe could grow the team across
(11:21):
Canada as well.
So we started with just like afractional sales support person
who was based in California.
That helped us kind of get ourfeet wet there, and today we
have our head of marketing isbased in Southern California, we
have another marketing personin New Jersey, one in Vancouver,
our CFOs in Vancouver, ourCanadian sales leaders in
Toronto.
So we are pretty spread outtoday and we spend, you know, a
(11:45):
lot of time on teams.
Of course, but try tointersperse some connects with
the team that are not solelyfocused on like what's everyone
been working on and what do youneed help with, more of like a
kind of happy hour virtuallywith the team if we can't get
together in person as much aswe'd like.
Julie (12:00):
Yeah, which makes sense, right, and you do have to make
an effort, you have to thinkabout it.
It's not as it's not as organicas having everybody physically
together, where it doesn'trequire as much thought you do
need to be and time zones also,like having this breadth of time
zones?
Margaret (12:20):
Absolutely, and I mean , I travel so much for work as
well that I'm getting morefamiliar with the variety of
manufacturing and in one countrybut selling in more than one.
Julie (12:50):
And just what that has looked like from you know you
doing the dishes in the kitchenafter making the deliveries to
where you're at today, which is,you know, national retailers,
larger volumes, all of thosepieces, and what it's been like
scaling that up.
Margaret (13:08):
I think it's been really supportive overall to the
the overall business.
To be vertically integratedthat way, to have the
manufacturing arm, you know,especially as you're trying to
scale up and launch new productshas given us a lot of control
over the quality and theinnovation and the kind of speed
with which we can bringsomething to market.
But that said, it is like awhole separate business, it's
like kind of two businessesrunning at once sometimes and
(13:30):
they both, you know, obviouslywork very closely together and
support each other.
But the manufacturing side ofthings, you know, is complex.
It requires a lot of people.
It requires a lot of equipmentand physical space and
warehousing and ingredients andshipping and all of that.
And you know, for me it wasreally all I knew starting out.
I was working as a chef at avegan restaurant prior to
(13:52):
starting the business andstarted by renting the
restaurant kitchen in the middleof the night and eventually
kind of getting a littlecertified kitchen space at the
farmer's market.
That was a eight by 10 booth.
That was, you know, mine, 24hours a day, seven days a week.
So that became my firstmanufacturing space and when I
was starting out I didn't knowthat there was things like Coke
manufacturers that you couldoutsource manufacturing.
(14:14):
I was 24 when I started thecompany also, so there was quite
a lot of things that are almostlike assumed in folks starting
food businesses nowadays that Ijust didn't have access to that
kind of experience or knowledge,and so for me there was never
any other option than to be amanufacturer.
But honestly, I do think it'slike one of the biggest
(14:35):
strengths about our business isthat we've, you know, really
kind of scaled our manufacturing.
We really focus onmanufacturing excellence.
We've received very stringentfood safety certification that
we've been working on for thelast number of years.
So just recently we're BRCcertified as a manufacturer,
which you know allows us toreally support that retail
(14:55):
expansion as well.
Julie (14:56):
Right, and it is interesting because sometimes I
think it's those things you dobecause you just don't know that
turn out to be like part of thesauce of the business.
That makes it so interesting.
Margaret (15:10):
Yeah, there's so many things that I'm actually quite
happy I didn't know, because Ithink sometimes if you know too
much, then it's scarier to takethe leap and to jump into
something that's going to bereally hard.
But if you're already doing it,you just keep going, right.
Julie (15:24):
Yeah, now you've always been the product kind of
mastermind and you know, goingfrom being the chef in the vegan
restaurant to starting this,you had a really good sense of
what you want, what you saw theneed in the world to be and what
people would want, based onwhat you wanted.
How has that continued as thebusiness has grown?
Margaret (15:46):
So when I started, you know, there really wasn't a lot
of quality vegan productsavailable in general in the
grocery stores and in the widermarketplace, particularly not in
Canada, but especially when itcame to vegan cheeses, there was
, you know, a number of kind ofshreds and slices and things
that I have eaten a ton of in mylife and they absolutely serve
(16:07):
their their purpose.
But I wanted something that wasa little bit more advanced from
a culinary standpoint,something that I could cook with
, something that was fermentedso it had great gut health
benefits, something that couldbe certified organic and and was
made from all recognizableingredients and real food, as I
call it.
And so I think that for me itwas initially really filling a
(16:29):
need of something that I wantedto be able to purchase, and it
was something that I was makingfor the restaurant.
So I was making differentcheeses and sauces and dressings
and things like that, usingnuts and seeds to make them
creamy.
And when I started fermentingthe cheeses that I was making,
that was kind of when there's alittle bit of a light bulb of
how cheesy they could taste, howyou could preserve products
(16:52):
like you would a dairy cheeseusing fermentation, so that you
don't have to use any different,you know, artificial
ingredients or gums or fillersor preservatives, things like
that.
It really is kind of a verynatural, clean product, which is
how I like to eat, and sothat's led into the way that we
innovate and I still do lead allof our innovation and product
development.
So for me, you know, launchingnew cheese flavors over the
(17:15):
years has been really fun,because I love looking at
different food trends and seeingwhat you know different flavors
might be missing in the marketand different styles of dairy
cheese that we could emulate andthen thinking about like
product line extensions.
You know we launched a butter in2019.
And that became, you know, agreat product for us to kind of
flank our product as looking forsomething that really did
(17:36):
behave like a dairy butter thatwas able to, you know, melt and
be used in pastries, and aone-to-one swap for dairy butter
, which then led to cream cheese, which we launched about a year
and a half ago.
So that's a newer product linefor us that's now available
nationally in Canada and the US,but that became more of your
kind of everyday yeast educationproduct.
We wanted it to have a slightlylower price point because a lot
(17:58):
of folks buy our cheese wedgesand kind of save them for a
special charcuterie board, orsometimes they cook with them.
We wanted something wherepeople could, you know, grab it
and and use it every day.
And then next up we'll belaunching a line of creamy
cashew dips that, um aredelicious.
We've been kind of advertisingthem on our website and selling
a little bit d2c over the summer, but they'll be launching
retail this fall and really ourfood philosophy has stayed
(18:21):
consistent over the years.
We're super committed toorganic, to fermented, to foods
that have high probiotic content.
You know all recognizable,simple ingredients.
Julie (18:33):
Yeah, I think well, and I mean the product quality is
evident.
I think that's an interestingpoint, though, about like the
original sort of cheese linethat has expanded with flavors
and things, but it being thatthing you would put on onto a
charcuterie board or something alittle bit more special, versus
things people might want to useon an everyday basis, and what
(18:53):
that means for you in terms ofhow you want your price point to
be as you come into market.
Margaret (19:00):
Yeah, absolutely, and I know I eat, you know, a wedge
of our cheese almost every day.
But for other people they maynot necessarily, and they do
really see the product as beingvery special, which is such an
honor.
But I want to continue toinnovate products that people
have for all different you knowoccasions in their life yeah, no
, it's interesting.
Julie (19:19):
And so now you were the primary taste that you know all
of the early products were builton.
How does that look today?
What's different about yourproduct development cycle and
how you're doing things?
Margaret (19:35):
so I still lead, lead a lot of the kind of general
innovation, but we have anawesome operations team that
supports me very closely.
So, you know, I'll kind of havean idea and I might do the
first couple of trials on my ownand then I'll bring in the
operations team and our qualityteam who really help me kind of
run a number of iterations andtweak and perfect things until
(19:56):
we get to a formula that we'rehappy with.
And I think what's beeninteresting over the years is,
having been a chef in a previouslife, I think of everything as
a recipe, and so I'll go intothe facility and say okay, you
know, I made this new product.
I want us to try it.
It's got, you know, a teaspoonof salt and it's got a dash of
this and it's got a handful ofthis, and they're like, oh my
(20:17):
god, what?
Julie (20:20):
is the number of grams, and and I made two small pieces
of it and now I need you to makea million exactly.
Margaret (20:29):
So I really go in with the recipe and they're very
patient with me and help me turnit into a formula, but that's
that's, I think, been one thingthat's been, uh know, a big
learning curve and a challengefor me over the years was
turning something from benchtopor from restaurant size scale
into something that you couldmake you know thousands and
thousands of and send it on apallet to a retailer.
Julie (20:49):
And have it consistently turning out to taste and behave.
Taste just as good.
Behave in the same way it didwhen you made it in the kitchen
and ate it yourself, right?
Margaret (21:01):
Absolutely, because we also I think you know it's such
an X factor for us as thefermentation and fermenting
things is different on differentscales, and so you do really
have to be mindful of that andyou know ensure that you can
achieve a consistent resultevery time.
Julie (21:16):
So interesting things that you like and probably never
imagined when you had yourfirst your own first kitchen at
the farmer's market that youwould be looking at the kind of
scope you're looking at now.
Margaret (21:29):
No, absolutely not.
And then kind of you know, backto the what you don't know is
sometimes sometimes better.
You know, I think it's.
It's turned out to be such abeautiful journey and I feel so
fortunate for all the stages ofit, but I absolutely had had no
idea that this is where I wouldbe kind of, nine years later
yeah, yeah, uh, it is well andarguably, if you knew you would
(21:50):
have been too scared to doanything about it.
Julie (21:53):
So because it sounds thrilling, but I mean the number
of sort of iterations and thinkhow you've prioritized to
continue, sort of going here andthen here, and just you know as
you grow the business and youpick those spots that you're
going to move to next.
You know it takes time to kindof discern that and figure out
(22:14):
how you're going to do it, tokind of discern that and figure
out how you're going to do it.
And so what has it been likefor you on the leadership side,
like your own growth as a leader, from you know the time when
you were by yourself or with acouple of people, to you know
now where you have this largerteam.
Margaret (22:32):
Yeah, I think it's been honestly, probably the
biggest personal developmentopportunity for me that I could
have had.
I have always found that theway that my personal growth has
happened over the years has beenvery closely tied to the way
the business has grown, andthose two have always been very
intertwined and a lot ofalignment.
And so it's been a hugeopportunity for me to grow as a
(22:55):
person but also as a leader, andI think I've learned a lot.
You know you make a ton ofmistakes.
As you go.
You learn how to work with ateam.
You learn how to lead a team.
Over the last number of yearsour team dynamic has shifted a
lot because we were bootstrappedfor the first seven years and
you know, really I was growing amanufacturing company on a
(23:15):
shoestring and couldn't affordto grow the way that a
venture-backed company may havein the early years and we were
growing really quickly.
So it was a lot of thinking onour feet, a lot of what can we
fix this piece of equipment withon a kind of Band-Aid type
basis.
And that shifted for us acouple of years ago when we
raised our first round ofventure capital.
That shifted for us a couple ofyears ago when we raised our
first round of venture capitaland that allowed me to really
(23:39):
put together a really strongleadership team to support me
through our next kind of basisof growth.
We also put together a board ofdirectors, which I did not have
before.
I've always had amazing mentors, but formalizing that board of
(23:59):
directors, having investors andthen having a senior leadership
team and many of those folks whohave a lot more life experience
and career experience than thanI do, I've learned so much from
you know, working with and andleading that kind of team and
reporting to a board regularlyand and all of that yeah, yeah,
it's sort of like the built-inaccountability that a board
brings for sure.
Julie (24:14):
What did you find as you moved from having mentors or
advisors who may have been veryactive in their work with you,
shifting from that kind of amodel over to a formal board?
What's it been like for you andwhat would you tell other
entrepreneurs who are thinkingabout going on that journey?
Margaret (24:34):
You know, I do feel very fortunate because one of my
longtime mentors, who actuallywas my mentor at the time that I
was participating in the Lion'sLair pitch competition and
helped me practice my pitch,he's actually one of our board
members today.
So he's been, you know, alongfor the journey since the very
early days in that transitionhas been, you know, really
amazing and he's an investor aswell as he's been my business
(24:57):
partner and that's been reallylovely journey.
But I will say, you know, it's abig change from having a kind
of more informal someone you canjust hop on the phone with and
call all the time to.
You know, okay, now I have toprepare a deck and report, you
know, our financials and reallyact a lot more like a CEO, and I
(25:17):
think that that kind of CEOtitle is something that I'd had
for a long time.
But there was some of thoseresponsibilities that you know
weren't as big of a focus ofmine because I was so focused on
running the business and beingin the day to day.
You have to be able to kind ofstep back a little bit and think
more strategically and you know, I had never seen a board deck
before making my first one, andso I think our decks have come a
(25:40):
long way and I think you knowI'm a person who does everything
you know, 150% so I think I'vedone a lot of overkill on those
early board decks and I've hadsome very gracious board members
who've, you know, coached meand kind of given me some
feedback along the way tocontinue to refine that.
Julie (25:56):
Yeah, have you found at all that you need to
professionalize a little bit?
As you went, like you, you didjust talk about that in terms of
the deck and that sort of thing, but the um, I think of the
like messy hash it out.
What do you think about this?
What do you think about?
Think about that, like how dothose people change?
(26:17):
Because sometimes you havementors who live in that messy
zone but it feels like board ofdirectors.
You want to present maybe alittle bit more of a polished
Margaret CEO to them, as opposedto them mucking it out with you
.
Have you found that?
Margaret (26:32):
for sure and I think even throughout the years, like
that kind of same experience ofevery six months.
My role changes every sixmonths.
I've, like, had to kind ofrefine myself a little bit more
and, you know, learn more aboutboundaries and what do you share
with certain team members andhow do you structure an
organization.
And all of that Because I thinkyou know when you're starting
out and it's farmer's market andit's trade shows and you're all
(26:53):
sitting around.
You know my mom's old kitchentable that was the first desk
that we had at our facility.
It's a lot more camaraderie andfriendship and it's amazing to
start a business that way.
But as you grow things dochange and I think that that can
be a really challenging thingfor founders as you're starting
to professionalize anorganization with you know,
sometimes people that have beenthere since the very early days,
(27:14):
sometimes new people that arecoming onto the team and really
kind of strategically set thoseexpectations and relationship
dynamics.
Julie (27:24):
Yeah, I can remember very clearly in my journey a point
where, instead of sitting arounda table with the team, kind of
ponging things around andfiguring out what to do, that
like all of a sudden thatfeeling of like oh no, they're
actually looking for me to comeand figuring out what to do.
That like all of a sudden thatfeeling of like oh no, they're
actually looking for me to comeand either send them to
investigate some things or comewith a direction that we should
(27:45):
go, like I actually need to bedeciding.
It's not the same kind of thathash it out, let's decide
together kind of feeling.
And I can very clearly rememberthat shift and how
uncomfortable it felt.
For sure, and I can veryclearly remember that shift and
how uncomfortable it felt.
Margaret (27:59):
For sure, and I think it's a continual journey too
because, like, that opportunityto really hash things out as a
team is so important, and thenyou know kind of finding, you
know where you take your spaceand where you're looking for
feedback and where you're not,as something that you're always
kind of learning.
Julie (28:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's a constant journey of
learning.
I feel like that is the onething with entrepreneurship is
nothing ever stays the same.
Definitely.
There's new problems to solve,new triumphs to claim, new, all
the things, the highs, the lows,all of it together.
It's a constant evolution.
Margaret (28:37):
It is a roller coaster , you know you hear that a lot,
but it does like your, yourhighest high, your lowest low
all happen within the same hoursometimes.
Julie (28:48):
Sometimes that's exhausting.
Margaret (28:50):
Everything's amazing and the sky is falling.
Julie (28:55):
All in one half hour period.
It's so true.
It's so true.
Um so, what's next for you?
Margaret (29:02):
that's a good question yeah, dips are.
Dips have been a big focus forus.
So you know, innovation isreally central to everything
that we do and has been sincesince the early days.
So dips launching have beenvery exciting for us.
You know, we showed them to acouple retail partners earlier
this year and got a lot ofexcitement and a lot of great
feedback.
So very quickly had to hustleas a team and all put our heads
(29:24):
together of how fast can we getthis to market.
And you know it kind of startedas a product concept earlier
this year.
That is now a final productthat's going to be hitting
shelves in Canada by CanadianThanksgiving-ish and a little
bit later in time for AmericanThanksgiving in the in the US.
So we've got three, three newflavors coming the creamy cashew
(29:45):
dips they're all containbillions of probiotics per
serving and we have a dillpickle, a roasted red pepper and
an artichoke jalapeno that arecoming to market.
So super excited about thoseand you know, you know just
continuing to grow and expandour availability as well.
So in the States we've got anumber of new partners launching
products in the next number ofmonths and same with Canada.
(30:07):
You know Canada we've been veryfortunate to have a great
distribution footprint for sometime, but getting new product
lines into those retailers andthen continuing to grow our
retailer network has been a bigfocus as well.
So we have our big Canadiantrade show coming up in a couple
of weeks, which is always myone of my favorite trade shows
of the year the Canadian HealthFood Association.
Julie (30:29):
That's awesome and, yes, it gets you out there actually
hearing what people are sayingabout the product, what they
might be longing for, what youcan think about next and and all
of the things that actuallystanding and talking with people
who who love your product, youknow tell you right.
Margaret (30:46):
Yeah, I always say I want to wear a GoPro when we're
at a trade show, becausepeople's reactions to we get so
many people that are like, oh myGod, it's non-dairy, I don't
even want to go near it.
I'm like, please just try it.
And then they're like, oh okay,that was actually good.
So I just want to capture,capture.
Julie (31:02):
Some of that, and so you, and then, so you made another
step to world domination.
Right there, right exactlyexactly.
Margaret (31:09):
They just have to try it.
I think it's uh, flavor is themost important thing, and I
think it's easy for people tohave hangups about products that
are healthier, better for you,or dairy free or plant based or
whatever, but I think thatthat's where it's like super
important for us to put forwardproducts that have great quality
and taste good to keep peoplecoming back.
Julie (31:29):
Yeah, and I think it's really great to see you on that
leading edge of that, where itdoesn't have to be like
cardboard or taste bad oranything.
You can make choices for yourhealth that taste good and are
good for you Absolutely soimportant.
Well, I can't wait to see wherethe journey takes you next.
Margaret (31:47):
Thank you.
Julie (31:47):
Yeah, thanks for joining me today.
Margaret (31:50):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
This was so much fun.
Take care.
Julie (31:54):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
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(32:15):
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(32:36):
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When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure 8.
Welcome to Figure Eight, where we feature inspiring
stories of women entrepreneurswho have grown their businesses
to seven and eight figuresrevenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, ulie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book Big,gorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure 8.
(01:07):
Today I am in conversation withMargaret Coons.
She is the founder of Nuts forCheese and she started in 2015
making vegan cheese and going toher local farmer's market to
sell it.
She had a vision of using thehighest quality ingredients,
having it be certified organicand having no fillers, starches
(01:28):
or gums.
It was a simple goal to bringthe highest quality ingredients
to create the world's besttasting gourmet vegan cheese.
And all of that was nine yearsago, and I met Margaret in 2016
when she appeared at Lion's Laira pitch competition, and I have
(01:48):
eagerly followed her journey tobeing the number two cheese
brand vegan cheese brand inNorth America and I'm very
excited to have a conversationwith you today.
Welcome, Margaret.
Margaret (01:59):
Thanks so much for having me Happy to be here.
Julie (02:01):
I'm so glad to catch up with you and talk because I've
really loved following yourjourney and seeing how your
product offering has grown andyour business has grown, and so,
although I'm sure it's a lot offun and excitement, I know how
much hard work goes into that.
Margaret (02:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and a lot has changed since 2016,.
That's for sure.
Julie (02:23):
Right, well, and you know .
So, yes, I start thinking aboutpeople and production and
countries and all of the thingsthat you know are happening as
you're selling your product inretail stores.
Tell me a little bit about thatjourney.
Margaret (02:41):
For sure.
So we started back in 2015, asyou mentioned, at the farmer's
market and really it was quite agrassroots entry into retail in
those early days where I set upmy farmer's market booth, I set
up a social media page and awebsite and started getting some
requests from local retailersand restaurants that were keen
to support and carry the product.
(03:01):
And those early years was a lotof me reaching out to
individual health food stores orindependent retailers and
loading up my Toyota Corollawith coolers and driving product
all around southwestern Ontarioand into Toronto once or twice
a week and really kind ofdistributing on my own by hand
to these retailers that hadtaken an initial chance on us
(03:23):
and over time we were able togrow that list of retailers and
grow our manufacturingcapabilities, which I'm sure
we'll dig into in a little bit.
But it eventually went fromthat kind of personal touch
delivery to a distribution modelwith some internal team support
, some distributor support andgrowing most of retailers in
(03:45):
Canada and then the US.
Julie (03:48):
Yeah, and it is so interesting because I mean, when
I hear about the groceryindustry sort of in general,
they talk about large listingfees and that the path to market
into those big, big kind ofretailers can be an expensive
one.
Margaret (04:08):
You know, Absolutely.
Yeah, it for sure can be, and Ithink that's why it is really
important to evaluate the costof every retail venture that
you're embarking on, kind ofretailer by retailer.
Every different store is goingto have a different set of
requirements or expectations.
Every different store is goingto have a different set of
requirements or expectations andyou know, the way that we've
(04:32):
looked at it is to try to buildour list of retailers for what
we're ready for.
So our first large customer, forexample, is Farm Boy in Ontario
and that was our first timeever having to fill out a proper
listing form, the first time Iever had to put product on a
pallet and wrap it up, and thefirst time we ever had to use a
freight truck.
And you know, all of thesethings were brand new to me and
I think they were a veryfriendly partner to start out
with because you know they arereally supportive of small
(04:54):
business.
They want to have the best, youknow, local and store brand
products to offer theircustomers and they were very
collaborative from the beginningand that was a very kind of
good way to get my trainingwheels off with some of those
bigger customers.
And then by the time we startedto get into more listing forms
and things like listing fees andnegotiating shelf space, I was
(05:15):
a little bit more prepared forit.
Julie (05:16):
Yeah, and I think that's a really good point about when
you want to enter into sort ofthat, like getting into chain
type retail that finding apartner who will really work
with you, believes in yourproduct and wants to support you
, um is a really important part,because it's hard, like there's
(05:37):
all kinds of lingo and back.
You know the back.
Did your product get out of theback room?
Did it get on the shelves?
How are you supposed to know?
Did you even know you had toknow that?
Like there are just so manythings in that learning curve of
what it's like to deal with bigretailers.
Margaret (05:53):
For sure.
I remember, like looking upunder the table, what is an SRP,
what is an MCB, all thesedifferent acronyms.
The natural products industryand the kind of grocery industry
at large has so many differentacronyms that you know when
you're first starting out.
You kind of just fake it untilyou make it.
But yeah, absolutely.
Julie (06:11):
Yeah.
So if we kind of rewind back to2016, when we first met, you
were really, at that point,doing everything.
I mean, you may have had acouple of people working for you
, but you know, you were makingcheese, you were selling cheese,
(06:31):
you were doing social media.
You were like all of all of thepieces of that business were
revolving around you beinginvolved.
And obviously things havechanged a lot, and fairly
quickly, in terms of you knowhow you've had to think about
pulling out, hiring people,putting experts in place.
What has that journey been like?
Margaret (06:51):
You know I used to say it felt like my role had
changed entirely, like every sixmonths, and I wouldn't say that
that's untrue today, like I'mstill definitely growing and
learning.
My position you know every dayand it does change constantly.
But those early years, for sureyou know every day and it does
change constantly.
But those early years, for sure, you know, you went from chief
bottle washer and you know, inhouse accountant who you know,
I'm an English major.
(07:11):
I didn't have, you know, a tonof business experience.
My first business plan that Iever wrote was for the lion's
lair pitch competition.
So I didn't, you know, have aformal business plan.
When I, when I started thecompany, didn't know things like
how to incorporate, I used someof my Alliance Lair winnings
actually to incorporate thebusiness and set up my kind of
first legal structure, get ourtrademarks going.
All of that was really kind ofbrand new to me and I had a lot
(07:34):
to figure out.
But what I did know how to dowas to do everything to kind of
run the business operationallyand had a lot of grit and a lot
of drive and was really willingto be that person who was going
to stay, you know, late in thekitchen wrapping cheese and
saran wrap and putting stickerson it and taking it to the
farmer's market or loading up mycar the next morning and, you
know, driving in and out of thecity to drop off product and
(07:55):
then coming back to do thedishes.
And, you know, started toassemble a small team around me
in the early days who also kindof had that same mentality of
we'll do kind of what needs tobe done.
So I had folks who were helpingactually make the product, as
well as coming with me to tradeshows and coming to markets to
sell it.
I had, you know, people thatwere starting to be my kind of
first formation of a sales teamwho would help, you know, manage
(08:19):
different independent retailaccounts and also had a little
bit of, you know, background inbookkeeping so it could help me
figure out payroll and justthings like that, you know, kind
of starting to build a teamthat was willing to jump in
where it was needed.
Julie (08:32):
Yeah, and that sounds a lot like a great startup team in
terms of people who don't needyou telling them what needs to
be done.
They look around and see whatneeds to be done and they're
willing to just dive in and doit.
Margaret (08:46):
Yeah, definitely kind of an entrepreneurial spirit I
think you have to look for westill look for that with team
members that are joining ustoday, because there's still
very much of that mentality thateveryone chips in where it's
needed.
Julie (08:58):
Yeah, which is a great way like to build that culture
of the organization right,because that's so important and
it can be hard as it grows tohaving so many people right.
Like you just never necessarilyimagine having that many people
reporting to you when you starta business.
Margaret (09:16):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's so important to keep
everyone connected not only toeach other but to the kind of
greater vision and to theconsumer feedback and to what's
happening out in market.
I think it's really key to makesure everyone is feeling really
kind of tapped into the biggerpicture.
Julie (09:33):
Yeah, and so now your team is sort of distributed, so
you have your own manufacturingand we'll get to talking about
that because I'm curious aboutthe scale up on that but you've
got a big amount of team who'ssort of in your premises doing
work, and then you've got a teamwho's, I'm sure, scattered sort
of across Canada and the USworking to market, sell, do all
(09:58):
of the other pieces that don'trequire you know, you being in
the building necessarily.
What's it been like bringingthat team together in terms of
having them, you know, feelcohesive and feel like they are
pulling in that same direction,together towards the vision?
Margaret (10:16):
For sure.
I mean, I think for us, becausewe're a manufacturer, it did
start very centrally located.
Everyone on the team was basedin London,O ntario, and was able
to travel to the plant, and alot of our team, even if they
could work remote, if they livelocally, they still like to come
in and, you know, be a part ofwhat's going on and kind of have
their finger on the pulse andthey connect with everyone else
in the facility.
But when we started to sellinto the US and really kind of
(10:39):
grow larger in Canada, it wasactually also kind of right at
the beginning of COVID.
So it was an interesting timebecause I had gone down to the
States for a trade show, expoWest, which is the largest
natural products expo in NorthAmerica, and it was the show
that was canceled because ofCOVID.
But we were already in LA andso we had been down there and
had the opportunity to kind ofscout some initial retail
(11:00):
partners and have a few meetingsin lieu of the show taking
place.
And when we got back, that waswhen we really started to kind
of hit the ground running interms of expanding across the
border and that was when wefirst started to really
understand that, okay, we'regoing to need some folks who are
actually based in the US andwith everyone working remotely,
it also kind of made sense thatwe could grow the team across
(11:21):
Canada as well.
So we started with just like afractional sales support person
who was based in California.
That helped us kind of get ourfeet wet there, and today we
have our head of marketing isbased in Southern California, we
have another marketing personin New Jersey, one in Vancouver,
our CFOs in Vancouver, ourCanadian sales leaders in
Toronto.
So we are pretty spread outtoday and we spend, you know, a
(11:45):
lot of time on teams.
Of course, but try tointersperse some connects with
the team that are not solelyfocused on like what's everyone
been working on and what do youneed help with, more of like a
kind of happy hour virtuallywith the team if we can't get
together in person as much aswe'd like.
Julie (12:00):
Yeah, which makes sense, right, and you do have to make
an effort, you have to thinkabout it.
It's not as it's not as organicas having everybody physically
together, where it doesn'trequire as much thought you do
need to be and time zones also,like having this breadth of time
zones?
Margaret (12:20):
Absolutely, and I mean , I travel so much for work as
well that I'm getting morefamiliar with the variety of
manufacturing and in one countrybut selling in more than one.
Julie (12:50):
And just what that has looked like from you know you
doing the dishes in the kitchenafter making the deliveries to
where you're at today, which is,you know, national retailers,
larger volumes, all of thosepieces, and what it's been like
scaling that up.
Margaret (13:08):
I think it's been really supportive overall to the
the overall business.
To be vertically integratedthat way, to have the
manufacturing arm, you know,especially as you're trying to
scale up and launch new productshas given us a lot of control
over the quality and theinnovation and the kind of speed
with which we can bringsomething to market.
But that said, it is like awhole separate business, it's
like kind of two businessesrunning at once sometimes and
(13:30):
they both, you know, obviouslywork very closely together and
support each other.
But the manufacturing side ofthings, you know, is complex.
It requires a lot of people.
It requires a lot of equipmentand physical space and
warehousing and ingredients andshipping and all of that.
And you know, for me it wasreally all I knew starting out.
I was working as a chef at avegan restaurant prior to
(13:52):
starting the business andstarted by renting the
restaurant kitchen in the middleof the night and eventually
kind of getting a littlecertified kitchen space at the
farmer's market.
That was a eight by 10 booth.
That was, you know, mine, 24hours a day, seven days a week.
So that became my firstmanufacturing space and when I
was starting out I didn't knowthat there was things like Coke
manufacturers that you couldoutsource manufacturing.
(14:14):
I was 24 when I started thecompany also, so there was quite
a lot of things that are almostlike assumed in folks starting
food businesses nowadays that Ijust didn't have access to that
kind of experience or knowledge,and so for me there was never
any other option than to be amanufacturer.
But honestly, I do think it'slike one of the biggest
(14:35):
strengths about our business isthat we've, you know, really
kind of scaled our manufacturing.
We really focus onmanufacturing excellence.
We've received very stringentfood safety certification that
we've been working on for thelast number of years.
So just recently we're BRCcertified as a manufacturer,
which you know allows us toreally support that retail
(14:55):
expansion as well.
Julie (14:56):
Right, and it is interesting because sometimes I
think it's those things you dobecause you just don't know that
turn out to be like part of thesauce of the business.
That makes it so interesting.
Margaret (15:10):
Yeah, there's so many things that I'm actually quite
happy I didn't know, because Ithink sometimes if you know too
much, then it's scarier to takethe leap and to jump into
something that's going to bereally hard.
But if you're already doing it,you just keep going, right.
Julie (15:24):
Yeah, now you've always been the product kind of
mastermind and you know, goingfrom being the chef in the vegan
restaurant to starting this,you had a really good sense of
what you want, what you saw theneed in the world to be and what
people would want, based onwhat you wanted.
How has that continued as thebusiness has grown?
Margaret (15:46):
So when I started, you know, there really wasn't a lot
of quality vegan productsavailable in general in the
grocery stores and in the widermarketplace, particularly not in
Canada, but especially when itcame to vegan cheeses, there was
, you know, a number of kind ofshreds and slices and things
that I have eaten a ton of in mylife and they absolutely serve
(16:07):
their their purpose.
But I wanted something that wasa little bit more advanced from
a culinary standpoint,something that I could cook with
, something that was fermentedso it had great gut health
benefits, something that couldbe certified organic and and was
made from all recognizableingredients and real food, as I
call it.
And so I think that for me itwas initially really filling a
(16:29):
need of something that I wantedto be able to purchase, and it
was something that I was makingfor the restaurant.
So I was making differentcheeses and sauces and dressings
and things like that, usingnuts and seeds to make them
creamy.
And when I started fermentingthe cheeses that I was making,
that was kind of when there's alittle bit of a light bulb of
how cheesy they could taste, howyou could preserve products
(16:52):
like you would a dairy cheeseusing fermentation, so that you
don't have to use any different,you know, artificial
ingredients or gums or fillersor preservatives, things like
that.
It really is kind of a verynatural, clean product, which is
how I like to eat, and sothat's led into the way that we
innovate and I still do lead allof our innovation and product
development.
So for me, you know, launchingnew cheese flavors over the
(17:15):
years has been really fun,because I love looking at
different food trends and seeingwhat you know different flavors
might be missing in the marketand different styles of dairy
cheese that we could emulate andthen thinking about like
product line extensions.
You know we launched a butter in2019.
And that became, you know, agreat product for us to kind of
flank our product as looking forsomething that really did
(17:36):
behave like a dairy butter thatwas able to, you know, melt and
be used in pastries, and aone-to-one swap for dairy butter
, which then led to cream cheese, which we launched about a year
and a half ago.
So that's a newer product linefor us that's now available
nationally in Canada and the US,but that became more of your
kind of everyday yeast educationproduct.
We wanted it to have a slightlylower price point because a lot
(17:58):
of folks buy our cheese wedgesand kind of save them for a
special charcuterie board, orsometimes they cook with them.
We wanted something wherepeople could, you know, grab it
and and use it every day.
And then next up we'll belaunching a line of creamy
cashew dips that, um aredelicious.
We've been kind of advertisingthem on our website and selling
a little bit d2c over the summer, but they'll be launching
retail this fall and really ourfood philosophy has stayed
(18:21):
consistent over the years.
We're super committed toorganic, to fermented, to foods
that have high probiotic content.
You know all recognizable,simple ingredients.
Julie (18:33):
Yeah, I think well, and I mean the product quality is
evident.
I think that's an interestingpoint, though, about like the
original sort of cheese linethat has expanded with flavors
and things, but it being thatthing you would put on onto a
charcuterie board or something alittle bit more special, versus
things people might want to useon an everyday basis, and what
(18:53):
that means for you in terms ofhow you want your price point to
be as you come into market.
Margaret (19:00):
Yeah, absolutely, and I know I eat, you know, a wedge
of our cheese almost every day.
But for other people they maynot necessarily, and they do
really see the product as beingvery special, which is such an
honor.
But I want to continue toinnovate products that people
have for all different you knowoccasions in their life yeah, no
, it's interesting.
Julie (19:19):
And so now you were the primary taste that you know all
of the early products were builton.
How does that look today?
What's different about yourproduct development cycle and
how you're doing things?
Margaret (19:35):
so I still lead, lead a lot of the kind of general
innovation, but we have anawesome operations team that
supports me very closely.
So, you know, I'll kind of havean idea and I might do the
first couple of trials on my ownand then I'll bring in the
operations team and our qualityteam who really help me kind of
run a number of iterations andtweak and perfect things until
(19:56):
we get to a formula that we'rehappy with.
And I think what's beeninteresting over the years is,
having been a chef in a previouslife, I think of everything as
a recipe, and so I'll go intothe facility and say okay, you
know, I made this new product.
I want us to try it.
It's got, you know, a teaspoonof salt and it's got a dash of
this and it's got a handful ofthis, and they're like, oh my
(20:17):
god, what?
Julie (20:20):
is the number of grams, and and I made two small pieces
of it and now I need you to makea million exactly.
Margaret (20:29):
So I really go in with the recipe and they're very
patient with me and help me turnit into a formula, but that's
that's, I think, been one thingthat's been, uh know, a big
learning curve and a challengefor me over the years was
turning something from benchtopor from restaurant size scale
into something that you couldmake you know thousands and
thousands of and send it on apallet to a retailer.
Julie (20:49):
And have it consistently turning out to taste and behave.
Taste just as good.
Behave in the same way it didwhen you made it in the kitchen
and ate it yourself, right?
Margaret (21:01):
Absolutely, because we also I think you know it's such
an X factor for us as thefermentation and fermenting
things is different on differentscales, and so you do really
have to be mindful of that andyou know ensure that you can
achieve a consistent resultevery time.
Julie (21:16):
So interesting things that you like and probably never
imagined when you had yourfirst your own first kitchen at
the farmer's market that youwould be looking at the kind of
scope you're looking at now.
Margaret (21:29):
No, absolutely not.
And then kind of you know, backto the what you don't know is
sometimes sometimes better.
You know, I think it's.
It's turned out to be such abeautiful journey and I feel so
fortunate for all the stages ofit, but I absolutely had had no
idea that this is where I wouldbe kind of, nine years later
yeah, yeah, uh, it is well andarguably, if you knew you would
(21:50):
have been too scared to doanything about it.
Julie (21:53):
So because it sounds thrilling, but I mean the number
of sort of iterations and thinkhow you've prioritized to
continue, sort of going here andthen here, and just you know as
you grow the business and youpick those spots that you're
going to move to next.
You know it takes time to kindof discern that and figure out
(22:14):
how you're going to do it, tokind of discern that and figure
out how you're going to do it.
And so what has it been likefor you on the leadership side,
like your own growth as a leader, from you know the time when
you were by yourself or with acouple of people, to you know
now where you have this largerteam.
Margaret (22:32):
Yeah, I think it's been honestly, probably the
biggest personal developmentopportunity for me that I could
have had.
I have always found that theway that my personal growth has
happened over the years has beenvery closely tied to the way
the business has grown, andthose two have always been very
intertwined and a lot ofalignment.
And so it's been a hugeopportunity for me to grow as a
(22:55):
person but also as a leader, andI think I've learned a lot.
You know you make a ton ofmistakes.
As you go.
You learn how to work with ateam.
You learn how to lead a team.
Over the last number of yearsour team dynamic has shifted a
lot because we were bootstrappedfor the first seven years and
you know, really I was growing amanufacturing company on a
(23:15):
shoestring and couldn't affordto grow the way that a
venture-backed company may havein the early years and we were
growing really quickly.
So it was a lot of thinking onour feet, a lot of what can we
fix this piece of equipment withon a kind of Band-Aid type
basis.
And that shifted for us acouple of years ago when we
raised our first round ofventure capital.
That shifted for us a couple ofyears ago when we raised our
first round of venture capitaland that allowed me to really
(23:39):
put together a really strongleadership team to support me
through our next kind of basisof growth.
We also put together a board ofdirectors, which I did not have
before.
I've always had amazing mentors, but formalizing that board of
(23:59):
directors, having investors andthen having a senior leadership
team and many of those folks whohave a lot more life experience
and career experience than thanI do, I've learned so much from
you know, working with and andleading that kind of team and
reporting to a board regularlyand and all of that yeah, yeah,
it's sort of like the built-inaccountability that a board
brings for sure.
Julie (24:14):
What did you find as you moved from having mentors or
advisors who may have been veryactive in their work with you,
shifting from that kind of amodel over to a formal board?
What's it been like for you andwhat would you tell other
entrepreneurs who are thinkingabout going on that journey?
Margaret (24:34):
You know, I do feel very fortunate because one of my
longtime mentors, who actuallywas my mentor at the time that I
was participating in the Lion'sLair pitch competition and
helped me practice my pitch,he's actually one of our board
members today.
So he's been, you know, alongfor the journey since the very
early days in that transitionhas been, you know, really
amazing and he's an investor aswell as he's been my business
(24:57):
partner and that's been reallylovely journey.
But I will say, you know, it's abig change from having a kind
of more informal someone you canjust hop on the phone with and
call all the time to.
You know, okay, now I have toprepare a deck and report, you
know, our financials and reallyact a lot more like a CEO, and I
(25:17):
think that that kind of CEOtitle is something that I'd had
for a long time.
But there was some of thoseresponsibilities that you know
weren't as big of a focus ofmine because I was so focused on
running the business and beingin the day to day.
You have to be able to kind ofstep back a little bit and think
more strategically and you know, I had never seen a board deck
before making my first one, andso I think our decks have come a
(25:40):
long way and I think you knowI'm a person who does everything
you know, 150% so I think I'vedone a lot of overkill on those
early board decks and I've hadsome very gracious board members
who've, you know, coached meand kind of given me some
feedback along the way tocontinue to refine that.
Julie (25:56):
Yeah, have you found at all that you need to
professionalize a little bit?
As you went, like you, you didjust talk about that in terms of
the deck and that sort of thing, but the um, I think of the
like messy hash it out.
What do you think about this?
What do you think about?
Think about that, like how dothose people change?
(26:17):
Because sometimes you havementors who live in that messy
zone but it feels like board ofdirectors.
You want to present maybe alittle bit more of a polished
Margaret CEO to them, as opposedto them mucking it out with you
.
Have you found that?
Margaret (26:32):
for sure and I think even throughout the years, like
that kind of same experience ofevery six months.
My role changes every sixmonths.
I've, like, had to kind ofrefine myself a little bit more
and, you know, learn more aboutboundaries and what do you share
with certain team members andhow do you structure an
organization.
And all of that Because I thinkyou know when you're starting
out and it's farmer's market andit's trade shows and you're all
(26:53):
sitting around.
You know my mom's old kitchentable that was the first desk
that we had at our facility.
It's a lot more camaraderie andfriendship and it's amazing to
start a business that way.
But as you grow things dochange and I think that that can
be a really challenging thingfor founders as you're starting
to professionalize anorganization with you know,
sometimes people that have beenthere since the very early days,
(27:14):
sometimes new people that arecoming onto the team and really
kind of strategically set thoseexpectations and relationship
dynamics.
Julie (27:24):
Yeah, I can remember very clearly in my journey a point
where, instead of sitting arounda table with the team, kind of
ponging things around andfiguring out what to do, that
like all of a sudden thatfeeling of like oh no, they're
actually looking for me to comeand figuring out what to do.
That like all of a sudden thatfeeling of like oh no, they're
actually looking for me to comeand either send them to
investigate some things or comewith a direction that we should
(27:45):
go, like I actually need to bedeciding.
It's not the same kind of thathash it out, let's decide
together kind of feeling.
And I can very clearly rememberthat shift and how
uncomfortable it felt.
For sure, and I can veryclearly remember that shift and
how uncomfortable it felt.
Margaret (27:59):
For sure, and I think it's a continual journey too
because, like, that opportunityto really hash things out as a
team is so important, and thenyou know kind of finding, you
know where you take your spaceand where you're looking for
feedback and where you're not,as something that you're always
kind of learning.
Julie (28:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's a constant journey of
learning.
I feel like that is the onething with entrepreneurship is
nothing ever stays the same.
Definitely.
There's new problems to solve,new triumphs to claim, new, all
the things, the highs, the lows,all of it together.
It's a constant evolution.
Margaret (28:37):
It is a roller coaster , you know you hear that a lot,
but it does like your, yourhighest high, your lowest low
all happen within the same hoursometimes.
Julie (28:48):
Sometimes that's exhausting.
Margaret (28:50):
Everything's amazing and the sky is falling.
Julie (28:55):
All in one half hour period.
It's so true.
It's so true.
Um so, what's next for you?
Margaret (29:02):
that's a good question yeah, dips are.
Dips have been a big focus forus.
So you know, innovation isreally central to everything
that we do and has been sincesince the early days.
So dips launching have beenvery exciting for us.
You know, we showed them to acouple retail partners earlier
this year and got a lot ofexcitement and a lot of great
feedback.
So very quickly had to hustleas a team and all put our heads
(29:24):
together of how fast can we getthis to market.
And you know it kind of startedas a product concept earlier
this year.
That is now a final productthat's going to be hitting
shelves in Canada by CanadianThanksgiving-ish and a little
bit later in time for AmericanThanksgiving in the in the US.
So we've got three, three newflavors coming the creamy cashew
(29:45):
dips they're all containbillions of probiotics per
serving and we have a dillpickle, a roasted red pepper and
an artichoke jalapeno that arecoming to market.
So super excited about thoseand you know, you know just
continuing to grow and expandour availability as well.
So in the States we've got anumber of new partners launching
products in the next number ofmonths and same with Canada.
(30:07):
You know Canada we've been veryfortunate to have a great
distribution footprint for sometime, but getting new product
lines into those retailers andthen continuing to grow our
retailer network has been a bigfocus as well.
So we have our big Canadiantrade show coming up in a couple
of weeks, which is always myone of my favorite trade shows
of the year the Canadian HealthFood Association.
Julie (30:29):
That's awesome and, yes, it gets you out there actually
hearing what people are sayingabout the product, what they
might be longing for, what youcan think about next and and all
of the things that actuallystanding and talking with people
who who love your product, youknow tell you right.
Margaret (30:46):
Yeah, I always say I want to wear a GoPro when we're
at a trade show, becausepeople's reactions to we get so
many people that are like, oh myGod, it's non-dairy, I don't
even want to go near it.
I'm like, please just try it.
And then they're like, oh okay,that was actually good.
So I just want to capture,capture.
Julie (31:02):
Some of that, and so you, and then, so you made another
step to world domination.
Right there, right exactlyexactly.
Margaret (31:09):
They just have to try it.
I think it's uh, flavor is themost important thing, and I
think it's easy for people tohave hangups about products that
are healthier, better for you,or dairy free or plant based or
whatever, but I think thatthat's where it's like super
important for us to put forwardproducts that have great quality
and taste good to keep peoplecoming back.
Julie (31:29):
Yeah, and I think it's really great to see you on that
leading edge of that, where itdoesn't have to be like
cardboard or taste bad oranything.
You can make choices for yourhealth that taste good and are
good for you Absolutely soimportant.
Well, I can't wait to see wherethe journey takes you next.
Margaret (31:47):
Thank you.
Julie (31:47):
Yeah, thanks for joining me today.
Margaret (31:50):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
This was so much fun.
Take care.
Julie (31:54):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
podcast platform so you won'tmiss any episodes.
Figure Eight isn't just apodcast.
It's a way of seeing the big,gorgeous goals of women
entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
(32:15):
book big, gorgeous goals onamazon anywhere you might live.
For more about my growth andleadership training programs.
Visit www.
julieellis.
ca to see how we might worktogether.
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
(32:36):
Once again, that's www.
julieellis.
ca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure 8.
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