October 2, 2025 • 39 mins
Julie's brand new Big Gorgeous Goals: Official Workbook can be ordered now! Grab your copy.
Casey Carroll shares her entrepreneurial journey through nonlinear career paths, balancing multiple businesses, and creating transformative experiences for clients through her holistic approach to business and branding.
Casey Carroll (she/her) is an entrepreneur, business strategist, communications professional, and hospitality expert dedicated to building social enterprises rooted in care, creativity, and community. She is Co-Owner of BWB, a holistic brand agency supporting female entrepreneurs and equity-centered businesses, and Coray Kitchen, a farm-to-table restaurant in Delmar, NY.
Casey is also a writer, mother, coach, and facilitator known for her grounded presence and deep love of people. Her work is guided by the vision of creating bigger, longer tables—spaces where people gather, belong, and connect.
A compelling speaker on creativity, customer experience, and culture-building, Casey has delivered talks such as Storytelling for Change, Applied Feminist Business, and Creating Dinners That Feel.
She is the creator of Questions to Hold, a platform exploring inquiry as a revolutionary leadership practice through a podcast, card deck, and in-person experiences that invite reflection, connection, and transformation.
Learn more about Enneagrams:
https://www.seedstowholeness.com/
You can connect with Casey on LinkedIn.
You can learn more about BWB on their website or Instagram.
You can connect with Julie on LinkedIn or Instagram.
Find Julie's writing at her blog or by ordering her book Big Gorgeous Goals and the brand new official companion workbook!
What did you think of this conversation? We'd love if you'd rate or review our show!
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FIGURE 8 UPDATE
Hello listeners, thank you for your continued support and interest in my show. You may have noticed that Figure 8 is on a little hiatus right now, please enjoy the catalogue of episodes we have built up for you!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Julie (00:04):
Welcome to Figure 8, Figure where we feature
inspiring stories of womenentrepreneurs who have grown
their businesses to seven andeight figures revenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, Julie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book BigGorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure 8.
(01:07):
Today, I am joined by CaseyCarroll.
Casey is a driven entrepreneurand a business strategist,
communications professional anda hospitality expert, so she
brings a whole variety of skillsto the table in her
entrepreneurial ventures, andright now, she has two of them.
She is the co-owner of BoldWoman Brands, BWB, a holistic
(01:28):
brand agency focused on womenentrepreneurs, female
entrepreneurship and equity, andalso Coray Kitchen, which is a
restaurant in Del Mar, New York,so that feels like it's going
to be a really interestingconversation with different
things.
So that feels like it's goingto be a really interesting
conversation with differentthings.
Casey has over a decade ofextensive study and exploration
(01:50):
in transformative leadership,energy and consciousness,
contemplative practices in herprofessional pursuits and she's
the creator of Questions to Hold, which is a deck of cards that
I personally love and adore.
So I'm super happy to dive inwith you and welcome, Casey.
Casey (02:06):
Thank you, I'm so grateful to be here and I'm so
grateful to be with all thelisteners today too.
Julie (02:10):
I'm so glad to have you and I feel like this
conversation is kind of longoverdue because we've known each
other for quite a long time.
Yeah, so tell me about I lovethe like eclectic path.
I mean, that's my kind.
Of history is very eclectic andI really am always interested
(02:31):
in seeing how people end up inthose spaces and what the
exploration leads to.
So what can you tell me aboutthat for you?
Casey (02:39):
Yeah, I've always said and advocated for taking the
nonlinear path in life and inentrepreneurship and business
and in all the ways.
I remember one point in mycareer kind of, where I found
myself in San Francisco workingat a large communications agency
and I was surrounded by folkswho had gone up the path, where
(03:01):
they had maybe studied PR andcommunications in school and had
done the internships and movedthrough their career very
intentionally that way and itwas amazing for them and I found
myself feeling like a lack ofconfidence because I found
myself in this agency and I'mlike who am I?
Like after school I went toDenver and like dabbled in the
(03:24):
arts and worked in the foodindustry and was studying
leadership and development andkind of was all over the place,
but all the while knowing thatthose explorations were really
forming me and rounding me intothe type of person and
profession I wanted to be.
So it's always been thisnonlinear kind of path for me.
(03:46):
And again, finding myself inthe agency, there I had that
moment of recognition andreflection of I'm still
deserving to be here, althoughmy path looks quite different
and actually bringing theintersection of experience I had
into something like that agencywas essential to do the good
kind of work I was doing insideof there.
And then also that spirit it'slike that hummingbird pollinator
(04:08):
spirit that I have of likealways seeking knowledge in all
these different ways and findinghow we weave them together.
I think that's really theentrepreneurial drive that's
been the foundation for meperiod and then has since gone
on, you know, after I left theagency.
That's when I started my firstbusiness, BWB, and recognizing
(04:29):
that all those pieces I neededthem to be able to start the
business, you know, not justbeing a generalist but being
voraciously curious about somany aspects of life and work
and how they could come.
And I'll just say one otherpiece about that, which is that
oftentimes in our work withother female entrepreneurs where
(04:50):
we're supporting them me and mybusiness partner, Caitlin
Fitzpatrick but when we'resupporting people, I often tell
the story of what I call my yearof possible selves.
And this also came at aformative part of my career
where it was kind of this choicepoint of like okay, I'm doing
all this work and coaching andleadership development and
(05:12):
transformation.
I'm also really loving all thiswork I'm doing in like
communication strategy andbusiness development.
And then here I am studyingenergy and Reiki, like what are
all these things.
And so I always like to justsay to different clients we work
with to give permission of thatexploration, what I called my
(05:33):
exploration, a year of possibleselves, of like I'm going to,
you know, do Reiki and teachyoga and I'm going to
simultaneously facilitateleadership groups and I'm also
going to hold a full-time job asa communications professional
and just allowing it all to bean avenue of potential.
And then you know again, oncethat kind of phase ended for me,
(05:56):
it all just merged together inwhat then became BWB and my path
after that.
Julie (06:02):
Yeah Well, and I think that the work that you've done
at BWB is really beautiful,working with a real mix of women
, you know of female foundersand people who are building
businesses and makingdifferences in the world.
Casey (06:19):
Yeah, yeah, our goal with BWB again.
So BWB, just as background.
It is in its most essentialcategory like a brand and
business development firm, butreally we're in the business of
supporting transformation inbusiness and in personal lives.
When it comes down to it, somepeople often joke what you know?
(06:39):
We'll sign a contract andthey'll start to do a website
project with us and then they'relike what's happening?
You just changed our whole life.
And we're like that's the point.
It's not some backdoor scheme,it's just the essence of the
work.
What we see is really workbeing for the clients we get to
(07:01):
work in and with this devotionalpath and process of discovery
of purpose, of becoming ofsocial impact.
And so we like to hold all ofthat for our entrepreneurs, for
our founders, for our businessleaders that we work with that.
Yes, we may be engaged in arebrand or we may be engaged in
(07:23):
a growth strategy or a productlaunch, but really, if we don't
talk about some of thefundamental, more soulful
elements of what's happening andwhy they're happening in the
organizational body or in theindividual, the strategy or the
end product for us doesn't feelcomplete in the way that we like
to pull through.
So that's been the again.
(07:45):
All those elements that I bringand that Caitlin has brought
into BWB with her background inimprov and also leadership and
new business development andstartup and everything Caitlin's
done all again makes what, eventhough at the end it just says
business and brand development,it's that unique kind of
underpinning of all of it.
Julie (08:07):
I think it's interesting how that thread of your own
exploration and discoveryprocess led you here, where you
now help others to kind of dothe same.
Casey (08:21):
Yeah, I mean, our journeys are deeply embedded
with the journeys that we aregoing to support others with as
well.
So if I hadn't walked throughor wasn't currently still
walking through the path, Idon't really know that I would
be the advisor for those type ofpeople.
Right, I have to understand anda lived experience and a
(08:43):
personal matter.
Otherwise I'm just kind ofreading the book and guessing
the formula and offeringsomething that's intellectual,
but it's much more complicated.
Anybody that's in businessunderstands it's much more
complicated than just the theoryor what the mind can do.
It's all the pieces that haveto come and I don't even think
(09:06):
in good faith I could offer anycounsel if I hadn't really gone
through something myself.
Julie (09:12):
Yeah Well, and you're still exploring, which I also
think you know.
You're making that deliberatetime to do the exploration, to
continue the exploration.
You, you know, whereas lots ofpeople do spend some time
exploring, then they dive intosomething and this sort of
tunnel happens and and you're,you know, singularly focused.
(09:33):
But that kind of hasn't beenyour path.
Casey (09:35):
Yeah, yeah, no, um, I don't even know how to be
singularly focused.
Um, I do a lot of work, um,with a coach.
Her name is Maren Goldin andher business is Seeds to
Wholeness, but she focuses a loton the Enneagram and helping.
You know, she doestransformational and
organizational consulting atlarge, but one of her
(09:57):
specialties is in the Enneagram,and so, for folks who are kind
of interested or maybe havenever even heard of it and want
to dabble into it, I have foundI've been able to unlock a lot
about myself and my ownleadership and also how we
relate to clients, throughunderstanding my Enneagram
profile, which is a seven.
So, to your point, Julie, aseven is called the enthusiastic
(10:20):
visionary in the Enneagram,which makes a lot of sense in
terms of entrepreneurship and interms of having no ability to
have a singular focus because
Julie (10:31):
it's why I like you, because I'm a two.
Yeah, and a two is often likegood compliment to a seven as
the helper and that stable kindof you know.
Casey (10:47):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Actually, when we we've beenbringing the Enneagram into our
coaching relationships, becauseoftentimes actually I as a coach
am most of service to twos, um,and that is on purpose, twos
and sevens.
But um, that is through theEnneagram makes a lot of sense
in terms of the complimentaryway that we can enliven and
(11:09):
balance each other in thosekinds of ways.
So it's like twos may seek outenthusiastic, visionary to
unlock those parts of themselvesor help them express, and then
vice versa.
But I also have a two in mythey call it a tri-type, so I'm
a seven, one, two.
So I also understand that partof it.
But not to go too in the weedsof the Enneagram, but I do.
(11:31):
I do recommend anybody to kindof go check it out.
Julie (11:35):
Yeah, we'll put a link.
We'll put a link to someEnneagram exploration in the
show notes.
Cause I would agree with you, Ifound it to be like I've done a
lot of sort of assessmentinstruments over the course of
time and I have found it to beone of the most revealing.
Casey (11:50):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Like.
We just did a big rebrandproject with an architecture
firm in Chicago and there weremultiple team members, there
were multiple components of theproject, and so we actually
kicked off the project with aEnneagram session with all of us
so we could understand how Icould be the best project lead
(12:13):
for them creative advisorthrough the process, strategic
advisor, and then they couldalso contextualize and
understand how my feedback andcounsel may show up for them.
It led to we finally justlaunched and it led to a really
successful process because,again, not only did we choose to
(12:36):
work with each other based onvalues and quality of work and
alignment and other ways, but itwas like, okay, we're committed
to this shared relationship andhow we can understand each
other to get the best productand also make the process feel
good.
You know, oftentimes it'soverly focused on the end
product without thinking aboutlike, how are we carrying each
other through the process?
Julie (12:54):
Yeah Well, and I think it's a really interesting part
because I think often the sortof consulting relationship can
run into friction because youknow, scope didn't get fully
understood.
There's people walk away withdifferent impressions and
understanding where those mightcome into play can be really
(13:14):
helpful.
Casey (13:15):
Yeah, right, and like why you know?
So then I can understandeverybody has different levels
of information processing or howthey like to receive
information.
And then so I can know ahead oftime like, oh okay, this person
may actually need more of thedetails than you know and may
need to have more of thatexplanation through a visual.
Okay, I can be able to walkthrough the contract that way,
(13:38):
you know.
Again, it's really about justmeeting each other the best we
can with the knowledge we have,versus just assuming that
whatever process we have inplace is going to make sense for
everybody, and and vice versa.
Julie (13:51):
Yeah, oh, that's so interesting, yeah, so now you've
got another business, therestaurant a little bit, because
I mean, that's a very differentbusiness from the agency.
And also, you know, living inlike opening a restaurant in a
small place, the communitybuilding, the things that go
(14:12):
along with making a success ofthat.
Casey (14:16):
What led you on that path ?
Well, again, it's that littlehummingbird inside of me.
I and the food industry was myfirst job.
I started off as like a busserin a small Italian restaurant in
my hometown and I think onceyou catch the bug of the food
industry and the spirit of it,which it always captured me
(14:36):
being able to feed people, takecare of people, love people,
show people a special time Evenfrom that age, I kept trying to
do other things in my career andI'd always come back to it.
Even the agency I was talkingabout that I worked in in San
Francisco.
It was in food, marketing andcomms.
Anytime I tried to kind ofventure into, you know, just
(14:57):
doing communications or justdoing coaching.
It's like I came back into foodin one dimension or another.
And my husband is a chef.
So we met each other out in SanFrancisco when I was out there
in that agency and he is a chefand it was always a longtime
dream of his.
(15:17):
So I believe firmly in businesspartnership.
So one thing to name as myfirst business BWB is through
partnership with Caitlin, andthis business, kodai Kitchen, is
in partnership with my husband,and I find something so deeply
important, affirming andvaluable about being in business
(15:39):
partnership with somebody.
So I don't think I ever wouldhave opened a restaurant on my
own.
It was not my dream alone, butit was our shared dream and
something that I knew I couldreally support him in realizing
in a new way.
So we've had the restaurant forabout a year and a half now and
it's a whole different, a wholedifferent animal from the
(16:02):
agency.
You know our agency is remoteteam.
It's comprised of a small,small team across the US,
primarily North America morebroadly, and this is like brick
and mortar small town where Igrew up actually, like literally
on the street that my grandmaand my mom were raised on.
(16:25):
You know my dad was raised onthe neighborhood away from there
.
So there's something trulyspecial about my values of
community and belonging and thengetting to express that in a
really different format andmedium with the restaurant.
I will say balancing twobusinesses with two small
(16:48):
children has brought me to task,I think, with that seven part
of myself and that hummingbirdpart where actually it's been so
humbling to be in a place whereI'm ready to I'm ready to kind
of like not necessarily pullback, but I'm satiated.
(17:09):
You know there's no need forthe continuous what's next or
that, that hunt, or thathungriness that I've always had
in myself.
Having the two expressions, Ifind my hungriness coming back
for more internal time, moretime for reflection, more time
to just come home and be with mychildren and be normal with it.
Julie (17:32):
So you know, sometimes I think having the two had to
stretch me to the point where Irealized I start to think more
deeply about what, what'simportant for me in the, in the
long term, of my legacy and itis that piece, like we all have,
like seasons, and so the seasonyou're in right now, like I'm
sure that at another point intime that hummingbird will come
(17:56):
back and want lead, want to leadyou somewhere else, um, because
that's sort of the innate piecewithin you.
But it's so important toappreciate also the place you're
in now
Casey (18:09):
yeah, yeah, and it is as I'm saying, it's coming back,
but it's in these more like um,less about the external
production or creativity, andit's more those like quieter
parts where it's coming back andjust looking for more time to
read a book and like get backinto the body and and get back
(18:31):
into time to be with the kidsout on a nature walk or
something like that, you know.
So it's, it's there, but it'sshifting and I've actually
talked with a few other women.
I'm I'm 40, turned 40 this year, and I've talked with some
other women business owners andI think I'm on the younger cusp
of that.
Some of them are, you know,maybe 10 years older than me.
(18:52):
But about this, this pointwhere then it becomes about who
I am again and turning inward,versus like this full external
expression which again it's allinterconnected and ebbs and
flows.
Julie (19:07):
But I am just noting it as an interesting um in like
shift that's happening in theentrepreneurial and it's so
interesting because I've I'vereached this place now, where my
kids are all in their twenties.
And so I have really felt thatshift as they kind of step into
their own and, like you know,seem like they're getting
(19:29):
launched and getting off intotheir own things.
Uh, it opens a different doorRight, and so it's interesting.
Transitions and and and placesare always kind of interesting
explorations.
Casey (19:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
And, like the the Marin, who,the coach that I work with, we
leveraged the Enneagram to talkabout that of like, not that any
of this isn't my soul work,because all of it is my soul
work, but there's like otherother parts of my soul now that
are like like younger partswhere I used to do poetry or
creative writing and all thesepieces where I'm like, hmm, what
(20:04):
are these coming back on boardfor and where is that bringing
me down the road?
Is it is writing coming back inmy life, or you know all those
kinds of things, and not tryingto overly pin it down just yet,
just getting curious aboutwhat's showing up and what that
means for me in this next era ofthe career path.
Julie (20:27):
Yeah, yeah, I think it is , you know that, exciting.
I think we can't always lookoutward and reach and reach and
reach right.
So looking inward it becomes animportant part of the journey
and and valuing that, I mean Ithink I have not always valued
that.
Casey (20:46):
Yeah, and I know you mentioned the questions to hold
deck that we have and theprocess that we have.
But questions to hold is, yay,that's a beautiful design by
Kelly Sangle.
It's a beautiful design.
Yeah, Kelly Sangle was adesigner with us and she did
that design intuitively.
So you know we can.
That whole process was a littlebit of intuitive and how it
(21:09):
started was in coachingrelationships.
Many years ago about 10 yearsago, I started coaching people
one-on-one or, and you know, atthe end of the coaching call
they'd be like so what's myaction step?
And I was like, do I have to bea good coach and give them an
action step?
Like there was this part of methat was resisting that and I
really, really realized why.
(21:32):
And what I started to quoteassign was a question to hold.
And I said rather than, okay,yeah, we could like task master
this and I could give you 10tasks to take care of between
now and the next coaching call,but that's not the kind of
accountability I wanted to offermy clients.
And so I said, what if we justopened up a question to hold?
(21:54):
And that would be somethingthat emerged in the conversation
, could be as simple like am Ihappy?
Or it could be something like,do I have enough, for example,
and they seem simple on thesurface, but when you really if
you really kind of like takethat practice to heart and take
(22:15):
a full week and really just holdthat question, not trying to
answer it, just being reallycurious about it and asking
yourself over and over like am Ihappy?
Am I happy, am I happy?
As a process, it reveals so muchto us.
You know about so many thingsthat may or may not be related
(22:37):
to work, but what I found indoing that with coaching is then
they'd come into the nextsession and it would be like a
profound shift or an insightcame through or something
transformative, as you said,like really taking the interior
world into consideration andbeing like I know we were just
building this growth strategy,but I'm recognizing that it's
(22:57):
more in line with my ego or it'sabout something more aggressive
than I'm recognizing that it'smore in line with my ego or it's
about something more aggressivethan I'm interested in.
And actually what I want is X,whatever it was.
You know so that questions tohold practice has been a core
part of my own practice what weshare with clients and then
became a deck, you know, a fewyears ago, to give to people, to
(23:18):
kind of really have somethingphysical and tangible to be in
that remembrance of.
You know, not to just steam,roll ahead and bulldoze ahead
and really invite into yourleadership this questioning of,
and constant dialogue with yourlife, basically of, like, what
(23:40):
are we doing here and is it whatwe want to be doing?
Julie (23:43):
Yeah, it's like as entrepreneurs, we spend a lot of
time doing.
We have goals, we have plans,we have task lists and ways
we're getting there, but wedon't always spend time just
being, and to me, that's whatthis deck really makes me think
about is like taking some timeto, to spend in the being you
(24:06):
know how do I want to be and howdoes that reconcile, then, with
how I go into the world as adoer.
Casey (24:12):
Yeah, and in the being, again, it's like.
Sometimes for people it feelscounterintuitive.
It's like, okay, okay, justtell me what to do.
For people it feelscounterintuitive.
It's like, okay, okay, justtell me what to do.
Or like what's the next step?
Right, I get that Totally, Ican relate to that.
But in the being is the nextstep, you know, oftentimes, and
it's a slower process or it's aquieter process and and maybe a
(24:34):
little bit more nuanced thanjust like what's the next step
logistically to get me there?
And again, it's a combinationof both.
In business we have to be doingboth, but I think it's that
being part that we're hoping totake more of a stand for,
because that is actually wheresome of that essential
information is, that getsoverrided, and we don't want to
(24:57):
be 10 years down the road and belike, oh no, I never listened
to that part and now you know inhindsight like that was telling
me all these things all thistime, and so I think if we can
just build the forward momentumwith that part of ourselves,
we'll get, you know, maybesomewhere different and
(25:17):
somewhere more fulfilled in theend of it.
Yes, with intention.
Yeah, you know it comes to likehow do you?
And I mean I can say I thinkthat my work with Big Gorgeous
Goals really came out of being adoer and not spending enough
time being.
And then, when I had to spendtime being, I did not know what
(25:37):
to do with myself.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and I hear that a lot.
I mean, my father was abusiness owner and an
entrepreneur and that's kind ofwhat I grew up around and I
really was inspired by seeingwhat he was able to do.
And then retirement was like atrickier phase because it was
like all this focus on providingfor the family and growth and
(26:00):
external motivation, which wasamazing and he's incredible.
But what happens when thatfeels like it's not being met in
the same way for us?
You know, I think a lot ofpeople can relate to that, and
so we want to hold on to anidentity that is more more
complete, I think, than justwhat we're accomplishing or
(26:21):
achieving in that way.
And I remember when we wereworking together on on big,
gorgeous goals in your way, andreading the book and getting
familiar with your work, Ithought a lot about that for
myself.
Again, this was a few years ago,so I had, like this, I still
had more, a stronger kind oflike entrepreneurial drive, in
that way of like, yes, what'slike bigger, where do I want to
(26:42):
go?
How am I encouraging myself toget out of my comfort zone and
not be blocked by anything andreally look into that big, vast
possibility for myself.
And now, as I've over the lastcouple of years, I've really
thought about my big, gorgeousgoals, including a lot more
things than I originally wasincluding in that thinking, you
(27:05):
know, especially in terms of mycommitment to my children and
what I want that to be, mycommitment to just like my life,
like being in my life.
You know, like there's so manyother ways now where before,
when I was reading yourmaterials, thinking like, oh,
yes, I have all these big,gorgeous goals and what do I
(27:26):
want to do?
And you know it was very oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, idea,
idea, idea, idea.
And I feel a little bit morehumbled in that process now of
like what is a big, gorgeousgoal for me?
That includes all of my, all ofit, you know.
Julie (27:46):
Yes, and that, and I do think they are about life work,
like all the pieces comingtogether for that big
overarching, how you want to bein the world.
Casey (27:56):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that that makes for me and I
know we've talked about thisdifferently that makes like
growth and scale.
It changes.
It changes my trajectory of itand my relationship to it, not
that I don't want to have it,but in a way of like I'm
redefining that for myself in away that can feel sustainable
(28:21):
and like my own definition of it.
Julie (28:26):
Yes, yeah, and it is these different phases of life
that we come to, where weredefine what it is that we are
able and want to do in thosedifferent times.
Casey (28:40):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and like who knows where I'll be in
five years or, you know, in 10years or 15 years, like, and I
think one of the things onquestions to hold has also
become a podcast that I host.
But this season what we'refocusing with people on is just
the sheer amount reality andthat can feel scary to some
(29:04):
people about the way change isshowing up in the world right
now and in our individual lives,and so I think there's also, in
being in dialogue with allthese different leaders about
how they're holding change orhow they're supporting people
through change, it's reallyhelped me just understand that
(29:24):
this false notion of control,you know, or anything that I've
liked to enjoy, to believe it'sall just an illusion in these
ways, and that wherever the roadis headed, you know, like how
there are all these tools to bewith change, and wherever it is,
five, 10 years from now, I canstill have these big, gorgeous
goals you're talking about.
I can still have all of this,but it's going to change.
(29:47):
It already is.
It's evolving now and I can'tknow what it is, and that's okay
.
Julie (29:51):
No, and one of my observations right now is is we
really you've got to lean intothe wind a little bit, because
we can't simply protect what is?
Because it can be like, youknow, the sand sliding through
our fingers, and so we've got tobe aware of what is, because it
can be, like, you know, thesand sliding through our fingers
and so we've got to be aware ofwhat is and do what we can, but
(30:11):
we kind of have to lean intothe wind a little bit and look
for what's coming.
Casey (30:13):
Yes, and I think you know different people feel
differently about leaning intothe wind with it, and you know,
I know that even with like thework I've done in the spaces to
like in facilitation or intraining to develop more skills
here, like even just like breathwork or movement practice or
(30:35):
change philosophy, things likethat there's it's still scary
right.
So, like, we still needconversations like this, we
still need community networksand just resources where we all
are supporting each other andleaning into the wind, which I
know is actually what BigGorgeous Goals is about too.
It's about not having them inisolation but supporting each
(30:56):
other in Big Gorgeous Goals andmaking it about, yeah, having a
community effort with it yeah,having a community effort with
it.
Julie (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm a pretty big believer in that.
Community is a big way in ourlives to make things better.
That doing anything alone isharder, whatever it is, whether
it's a task or you knowsomething you're grappling with.
But you know, being doing itand closing in and doing it
alone is not going to be as easyor successful as having
(31:26):
community around you.
Casey (31:28):
Yeah, I totally agree and I think you know we'll say this
to certain clients too likebeing mindful and intentional
about what community you'resurrounding yourself.
In those kinds of situations,especially when it's something
like striving for a big goal ormoving into uncomfortable
(31:49):
territory with yourself, youknow it's like who's on that
team with you becomes reallyimportant, because it could be
many things.
But even like a small exampleis like when we're working with
clients and let's say they'reredoing their brand identity and
they're going to share feedback, we say like just, or they're
going to ask for, solicitfeedback.
(32:10):
It's like be mindful of who isgiving that to you and and what
their, what their role is.
Again, not to say don't getfeedback from people, but it's
like who is that community,who's on your team?
Are they uplifting you andseeing you in that higher
potential?
And if not, what's the kind of,what's the piece they're
(32:30):
bringing to the puzzle thatyou're?
You know, I think we can beintentional about who we're
trying to surround ourselveswith in these bigger times.
Julie (32:38):
And asking the right questions when you want feedback
too.
Casey (32:43):
Yes, exactly.
Julie (32:45):
Because you know you leave things too open and you're
going to get feedback thatisn't actually helpful to you.
Casey (32:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yes, it's about we.
We led a workshop with a kindof large international
organization at one point,caitlin and I, and it was about
being able to just identify theneed and then name the need.
I think that we forget how hardthat can actually be to even be
(33:12):
able to identify the need orthe type of feedback we want.
You know, it's like that's thefirst step, is like well, first
step is kind of like evenunderstanding you might want
feedback or you have a need thatneeds to get reconciled, and
then, once you have thatawareness, it's like okay, what
is it, though?
Like really getting clear on,like what it is that you're
wanting support around, and then, and then the next part of the
(33:36):
process is like how do youactually express that and name
that and and to who?
And it's a lot more complicated.
It's a lot more difficult andcomplicated than it sounds.
You know people are like oh,just say what you need, and I
know for myself, I'm like Idon't know, like I'm not sure.
You know it's been like aprocess, but it's a good process
.
I think, especially in anybodywho's listening, that's in any
(33:58):
kind of like business leadership, to really, really get
articulate with your words andwhat it and identifying what it
is that things are kind ofcalling you forward.
Julie (34:10):
No, I think it's so important and we don't do enough
of it.
That's the real truth, andbecause we don't do enough of it
, it gets more and moredifficult to access.
Casey (34:22):
Yeah.
Julie (34:23):
Practice right.
Casey (34:24):
Like so many things in life, we get better when we
practice it's just building themuscle and not being scared to
not know how to do it or, likeyou know, any of those kinds of
things.
And again, that's like thatcomes down to being around
people who are holding you in ahigher, higher potential and,
you know, with intention andgoodness, so that you can try on
that muscle and not feelthreatened by it.
Julie (34:49):
No, exactly Practicing and failing, you know, like
things not going exactly the wayyou want, and practicing again
and doing it in that state whereyou do feel held.
Casey (35:01):
Yeah, I I in as I'm getting older.
I recently found strengthtraining and when I'm in the gym
they always say like I want youto fail and I'm like I don't
want to.
Julie (35:14):
I don't like failure.
Casey (35:16):
I don't like that.
But it's been this reallyactually interesting thing and
even this morning in the process, like they were having me do
something and it was like Icouldn't do it and they were
like we want you to fail, likefailure is a good thing, and I
was just like for like mynervous system and everything,
and I think so manyentrepreneurs would understand
this.
There is so such a huge amountof pressure all the time and I
(35:41):
have that the one I mentioned inthe Enneagram, which is a
perfectionist, and it's reallyinternally driven on.
I don't critique others on thatstandard, I critique myself and
there's so much pressure toalways maintain public
perception, always do it right,always be the step ahead, always
(36:02):
, never do the failure.
So I was having this moment inthe gym today when they were
nicely nudging me to fail, thatI was like I think this is
really like just such a criticalthing that, like in my next
phase that I'm just getting moreand more comfortable with, and
that goes into like facing thewind, like you're talking about,
which is like I don't knowthere's so much wisdom in the
(36:24):
failing and that's superuncomfortable.
Julie (36:29):
Yeah, it's kind of interesting too, though, because
it's almost like, if you canlearn it on a physical level,
can you take up to you know,your work and into your head in
a way that maybe it's an easiergateway.
I don't know.
Casey (36:44):
Yeah, exactly, but I was appreciative of this person
reminding me of this thismorning and I know that they
love me, so it wasn't okaysomebody telling me to fail, but
I was like I'm so uncomfortablefailing.
I was like, oh, I think I got agrowth edge here that I got to-
.
Julie (37:00):
Definitely and I really feel like that's the story for
all of us is chasing thosegrowth edges and seeing where
they take us.
Casey (37:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and laughing along with it.
You know what I mean.
Like things can feel so seriousall the time and I just think
about that a lot.
Like thank goodness for mychildren, because when my life
feels so serious and my kids arelike, do something really silly
, and I'm like, oh yeah, likelife is just it's, it's all just
(37:32):
life, you know what I mean.
Like we just have to, it's justwhat it is.
And my kids are a huge, hugereminder of that for me every
day.
Of like, oh yeah, don't getswept away in this stuff.
You know, there's always justlike this, the silly face, or
something like that.
Julie (37:47):
And there's always a way to figure out what seems like
the most difficult of problems.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, good.
Well, thank you so much forchatting with me today.
It was a great conversation andI'm so glad to reconnect.
Casey (38:04):
Yes, I appreciate it.
I appreciate for everybodylistening and thank you so much.
Julie (38:10):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
podcast platform so you won'tmiss any episodes.
Figure 8 isn't just a podcast.
It's a way of seeing the big,gorgeous goals of women
entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
(38:31):
book Big Gorgeous Goals onAmazon, anywhere you might live.
For more about my growth andleadership training programs,
visit www.
julieellis.
ca to see how we might worktogether.
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
(38:53):
Once again, that's www.
juliellis.
ca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure 8.
Welcome to Figure 8, Figure where we feature
inspiring stories of womenentrepreneurs who have grown
their businesses to seven andeight figures revenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, Julie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book BigGorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure 8.
(01:07):
Today, I am joined by CaseyCarroll.
Casey is a driven entrepreneurand a business strategist,
communications professional anda hospitality expert, so she
brings a whole variety of skillsto the table in her
entrepreneurial ventures, andright now, she has two of them.
She is the co-owner of BoldWoman Brands, BWB, a holistic
(01:28):
brand agency focused on womenentrepreneurs, female
entrepreneurship and equity, andalso Coray Kitchen, which is a
restaurant in Del Mar, New York,so that feels like it's going
to be a really interestingconversation with different
things.
So that feels like it's goingto be a really interesting
conversation with differentthings.
Casey has over a decade ofextensive study and exploration
(01:50):
in transformative leadership,energy and consciousness,
contemplative practices in herprofessional pursuits and she's
the creator of Questions to Hold, which is a deck of cards that
I personally love and adore.
So I'm super happy to dive inwith you and welcome, Casey.
Casey (02:06):
Thank you, I'm so grateful to be here and I'm so
grateful to be with all thelisteners today too.
Julie (02:10):
I'm so glad to have you and I feel like this
conversation is kind of longoverdue because we've known each
other for quite a long time.
Yeah, so tell me about I lovethe like eclectic path.
I mean, that's my kind.
Of history is very eclectic andI really am always interested
(02:31):
in seeing how people end up inthose spaces and what the
exploration leads to.
So what can you tell me aboutthat for you?
Casey (02:39):
Yeah, I've always said and advocated for taking the
nonlinear path in life and inentrepreneurship and business
and in all the ways.
I remember one point in mycareer kind of, where I found
myself in San Francisco workingat a large communications agency
and I was surrounded by folkswho had gone up the path, where
(03:01):
they had maybe studied PR andcommunications in school and had
done the internships and movedthrough their career very
intentionally that way and itwas amazing for them and I found
myself feeling like a lack ofconfidence because I found
myself in this agency and I'mlike who am I?
Like after school I went toDenver and like dabbled in the
(03:24):
arts and worked in the foodindustry and was studying
leadership and development andkind of was all over the place,
but all the while knowing thatthose explorations were really
forming me and rounding me intothe type of person and
profession I wanted to be.
So it's always been thisnonlinear kind of path for me.
(03:46):
And again, finding myself inthe agency, there I had that
moment of recognition andreflection of I'm still
deserving to be here, althoughmy path looks quite different
and actually bringing theintersection of experience I had
into something like that agencywas essential to do the good
kind of work I was doing insideof there.
And then also that spirit it'slike that hummingbird pollinator
(04:08):
spirit that I have of likealways seeking knowledge in all
these different ways and findinghow we weave them together.
I think that's really theentrepreneurial drive that's
been the foundation for meperiod and then has since gone
on, you know, after I left theagency.
That's when I started my firstbusiness, BWB, and recognizing
(04:29):
that all those pieces I neededthem to be able to start the
business, you know, not justbeing a generalist but being
voraciously curious about somany aspects of life and work
and how they could come.
And I'll just say one otherpiece about that, which is that
oftentimes in our work withother female entrepreneurs where
(04:50):
we're supporting them me and mybusiness partner, Caitlin
Fitzpatrick but when we'resupporting people, I often tell
the story of what I call my yearof possible selves.
And this also came at aformative part of my career
where it was kind of this choicepoint of like okay, I'm doing
all this work and coaching andleadership development and
(05:12):
transformation.
I'm also really loving all thiswork I'm doing in like
communication strategy andbusiness development.
And then here I am studyingenergy and Reiki, like what are
all these things.
And so I always like to justsay to different clients we work
with to give permission of thatexploration, what I called my
(05:33):
exploration, a year of possibleselves, of like I'm going to,
you know, do Reiki and teachyoga and I'm going to
simultaneously facilitateleadership groups and I'm also
going to hold a full-time job asa communications professional
and just allowing it all to bean avenue of potential.
And then you know again, oncethat kind of phase ended for me,
(05:56):
it all just merged together inwhat then became BWB and my path
after that.
Julie (06:02):
Yeah Well, and I think that the work that you've done
at BWB is really beautiful,working with a real mix of women
, you know of female foundersand people who are building
businesses and makingdifferences in the world.
Casey (06:19):
Yeah, yeah, our goal with BWB again.
So BWB, just as background.
It is in its most essentialcategory like a brand and
business development firm, butreally we're in the business of
supporting transformation inbusiness and in personal lives.
When it comes down to it, somepeople often joke what you know?
(06:39):
We'll sign a contract andthey'll start to do a website
project with us and then they'relike what's happening?
You just changed our whole life.
And we're like that's the point.
It's not some backdoor scheme,it's just the essence of the
work.
What we see is really workbeing for the clients we get to
(07:01):
work in and with this devotionalpath and process of discovery
of purpose, of becoming ofsocial impact.
And so we like to hold all ofthat for our entrepreneurs, for
our founders, for our businessleaders that we work with that.
Yes, we may be engaged in arebrand or we may be engaged in
(07:23):
a growth strategy or a productlaunch, but really, if we don't
talk about some of thefundamental, more soulful
elements of what's happening andwhy they're happening in the
organizational body or in theindividual, the strategy or the
end product for us doesn't feelcomplete in the way that we like
to pull through.
So that's been the again.
(07:45):
All those elements that I bringand that Caitlin has brought
into BWB with her background inimprov and also leadership and
new business development andstartup and everything Caitlin's
done all again makes what, eventhough at the end it just says
business and brand development,it's that unique kind of
underpinning of all of it.
Julie (08:07):
I think it's interesting how that thread of your own
exploration and discoveryprocess led you here, where you
now help others to kind of dothe same.
Casey (08:21):
Yeah, I mean, our journeys are deeply embedded
with the journeys that we aregoing to support others with as
well.
So if I hadn't walked throughor wasn't currently still
walking through the path, Idon't really know that I would
be the advisor for those type ofpeople.
Right, I have to understand anda lived experience and a
(08:43):
personal matter.
Otherwise I'm just kind ofreading the book and guessing
the formula and offeringsomething that's intellectual,
but it's much more complicated.
Anybody that's in businessunderstands it's much more
complicated than just the theoryor what the mind can do.
It's all the pieces that haveto come and I don't even think
(09:06):
in good faith I could offer anycounsel if I hadn't really gone
through something myself.
Julie (09:12):
Yeah Well, and you're still exploring, which I also
think you know.
You're making that deliberatetime to do the exploration, to
continue the exploration.
You, you know, whereas lots ofpeople do spend some time
exploring, then they dive intosomething and this sort of
tunnel happens and and you're,you know, singularly focused.
(09:33):
But that kind of hasn't beenyour path.
Casey (09:35):
Yeah, yeah, no, um, I don't even know how to be
singularly focused.
Um, I do a lot of work, um,with a coach.
Her name is Maren Goldin andher business is Seeds to
Wholeness, but she focuses a loton the Enneagram and helping.
You know, she doestransformational and
organizational consulting atlarge, but one of her
(09:57):
specialties is in the Enneagram,and so, for folks who are kind
of interested or maybe havenever even heard of it and want
to dabble into it, I have foundI've been able to unlock a lot
about myself and my ownleadership and also how we
relate to clients, throughunderstanding my Enneagram
profile, which is a seven.
So, to your point, Julie, aseven is called the enthusiastic
(10:20):
visionary in the Enneagram,which makes a lot of sense in
terms of entrepreneurship and interms of having no ability to
have a singular focus because
Julie (10:31):
it's why I like you, because I'm a two.
Yeah, and a two is often likegood compliment to a seven as
the helper and that stable kindof you know.
Casey (10:47):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Actually, when we we've beenbringing the Enneagram into our
coaching relationships, becauseoftentimes actually I as a coach
am most of service to twos, um,and that is on purpose, twos
and sevens.
But um, that is through theEnneagram makes a lot of sense
in terms of the complimentaryway that we can enliven and
(11:09):
balance each other in thosekinds of ways.
So it's like twos may seek outenthusiastic, visionary to
unlock those parts of themselvesor help them express, and then
vice versa.
But I also have a two in mythey call it a tri-type, so I'm
a seven, one, two.
So I also understand that partof it.
But not to go too in the weedsof the Enneagram, but I do.
(11:31):
I do recommend anybody to kindof go check it out.
Julie (11:35):
Yeah, we'll put a link.
We'll put a link to someEnneagram exploration in the
show notes.
Cause I would agree with you, Ifound it to be like I've done a
lot of sort of assessmentinstruments over the course of
time and I have found it to beone of the most revealing.
Casey (11:50):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Like.
We just did a big rebrandproject with an architecture
firm in Chicago and there weremultiple team members, there
were multiple components of theproject, and so we actually
kicked off the project with aEnneagram session with all of us
so we could understand how Icould be the best project lead
(12:13):
for them creative advisorthrough the process, strategic
advisor, and then they couldalso contextualize and
understand how my feedback andcounsel may show up for them.
It led to we finally justlaunched and it led to a really
successful process because,again, not only did we choose to
(12:36):
work with each other based onvalues and quality of work and
alignment and other ways, but itwas like, okay, we're committed
to this shared relationship andhow we can understand each
other to get the best productand also make the process feel
good.
You know, oftentimes it'soverly focused on the end
product without thinking aboutlike, how are we carrying each
other through the process?
Julie (12:54):
Yeah Well, and I think it's a really interesting part
because I think often the sortof consulting relationship can
run into friction because youknow, scope didn't get fully
understood.
There's people walk away withdifferent impressions and
understanding where those mightcome into play can be really
(13:14):
helpful.
Casey (13:15):
Yeah, right, and like why you know?
So then I can understandeverybody has different levels
of information processing or howthey like to receive
information.
And then so I can know ahead oftime like, oh okay, this person
may actually need more of thedetails than you know and may
need to have more of thatexplanation through a visual.
Okay, I can be able to walkthrough the contract that way,
(13:38):
you know.
Again, it's really about justmeeting each other the best we
can with the knowledge we have,versus just assuming that
whatever process we have inplace is going to make sense for
everybody, and and vice versa.
Julie (13:51):
Yeah, oh, that's so interesting, yeah, so now you've
got another business, therestaurant a little bit, because
I mean, that's a very differentbusiness from the agency.
And also, you know, living inlike opening a restaurant in a
small place, the communitybuilding, the things that go
(14:12):
along with making a success ofthat.
Casey (14:16):
What led you on that path ?
Well, again, it's that littlehummingbird inside of me.
I and the food industry was myfirst job.
I started off as like a busserin a small Italian restaurant in
my hometown and I think onceyou catch the bug of the food
industry and the spirit of it,which it always captured me
(14:36):
being able to feed people, takecare of people, love people,
show people a special time Evenfrom that age, I kept trying to
do other things in my career andI'd always come back to it.
Even the agency I was talkingabout that I worked in in San
Francisco.
It was in food, marketing andcomms.
Anytime I tried to kind ofventure into, you know, just
(14:57):
doing communications or justdoing coaching.
It's like I came back into foodin one dimension or another.
And my husband is a chef.
So we met each other out in SanFrancisco when I was out there
in that agency and he is a chefand it was always a longtime
dream of his.
(15:17):
So I believe firmly in businesspartnership.
So one thing to name as myfirst business BWB is through
partnership with Caitlin, andthis business, kodai Kitchen, is
in partnership with my husband,and I find something so deeply
important, affirming andvaluable about being in business
(15:39):
partnership with somebody.
So I don't think I ever wouldhave opened a restaurant on my
own.
It was not my dream alone, butit was our shared dream and
something that I knew I couldreally support him in realizing
in a new way.
So we've had the restaurant forabout a year and a half now and
it's a whole different, a wholedifferent animal from the
(16:02):
agency.
You know our agency is remoteteam.
It's comprised of a small,small team across the US,
primarily North America morebroadly, and this is like brick
and mortar small town where Igrew up actually, like literally
on the street that my grandmaand my mom were raised on.
(16:25):
You know my dad was raised onthe neighborhood away from there
.
So there's something trulyspecial about my values of
community and belonging and thengetting to express that in a
really different format andmedium with the restaurant.
I will say balancing twobusinesses with two small
(16:48):
children has brought me to task,I think, with that seven part
of myself and that hummingbirdpart where actually it's been so
humbling to be in a place whereI'm ready to I'm ready to kind
of like not necessarily pullback, but I'm satiated.
(17:09):
You know there's no need forthe continuous what's next or
that, that hunt, or thathungriness that I've always had
in myself.
Having the two expressions, Ifind my hungriness coming back
for more internal time, moretime for reflection, more time
to just come home and be with mychildren and be normal with it.
Julie (17:32):
So you know, sometimes I think having the two had to
stretch me to the point where Irealized I start to think more
deeply about what, what'simportant for me in the, in the
long term, of my legacy and itis that piece, like we all have,
like seasons, and so the seasonyou're in right now, like I'm
sure that at another point intime that hummingbird will come
(17:56):
back and want lead, want to leadyou somewhere else, um, because
that's sort of the innate piecewithin you.
But it's so important toappreciate also the place you're
in now
Casey (18:09):
yeah, yeah, and it is as I'm saying, it's coming back,
but it's in these more like um,less about the external
production or creativity, andit's more those like quieter
parts where it's coming back andjust looking for more time to
read a book and like get backinto the body and and get back
(18:31):
into time to be with the kidsout on a nature walk or
something like that, you know.
So it's, it's there, but it'sshifting and I've actually
talked with a few other women.
I'm I'm 40, turned 40 this year, and I've talked with some
other women business owners andI think I'm on the younger cusp
of that.
Some of them are, you know,maybe 10 years older than me.
(18:52):
But about this, this pointwhere then it becomes about who
I am again and turning inward,versus like this full external
expression which again it's allinterconnected and ebbs and
flows.
Julie (19:07):
But I am just noting it as an interesting um in like
shift that's happening in theentrepreneurial and it's so
interesting because I've I'vereached this place now, where my
kids are all in their twenties.
And so I have really felt thatshift as they kind of step into
their own and, like you know,seem like they're getting
(19:29):
launched and getting off intotheir own things.
Uh, it opens a different doorRight, and so it's interesting.
Transitions and and and placesare always kind of interesting
explorations.
Casey (19:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
And, like the the Marin, who,the coach that I work with, we
leveraged the Enneagram to talkabout that of like, not that any
of this isn't my soul work,because all of it is my soul
work, but there's like otherother parts of my soul now that
are like like younger partswhere I used to do poetry or
creative writing and all thesepieces where I'm like, hmm, what
(20:04):
are these coming back on boardfor and where is that bringing
me down the road?
Is it is writing coming back inmy life, or you know all those
kinds of things, and not tryingto overly pin it down just yet,
just getting curious aboutwhat's showing up and what that
means for me in this next era ofthe career path.
Julie (20:27):
Yeah, yeah, I think it is , you know that, exciting.
I think we can't always lookoutward and reach and reach and
reach right.
So looking inward it becomes animportant part of the journey
and and valuing that, I mean Ithink I have not always valued
that.
Casey (20:46):
Yeah, and I know you mentioned the questions to hold
deck that we have and theprocess that we have.
But questions to hold is, yay,that's a beautiful design by
Kelly Sangle.
It's a beautiful design.
Yeah, Kelly Sangle was adesigner with us and she did
that design intuitively.
So you know we can.
That whole process was a littlebit of intuitive and how it
(21:09):
started was in coachingrelationships.
Many years ago about 10 yearsago, I started coaching people
one-on-one or, and you know, atthe end of the coaching call
they'd be like so what's myaction step?
And I was like, do I have to bea good coach and give them an
action step?
Like there was this part of methat was resisting that and I
really, really realized why.
(21:32):
And what I started to quoteassign was a question to hold.
And I said rather than, okay,yeah, we could like task master
this and I could give you 10tasks to take care of between
now and the next coaching call,but that's not the kind of
accountability I wanted to offermy clients.
And so I said, what if we justopened up a question to hold?
(21:54):
And that would be somethingthat emerged in the conversation
, could be as simple like am Ihappy?
Or it could be something like,do I have enough, for example,
and they seem simple on thesurface, but when you really if
you really kind of like takethat practice to heart and take
(22:15):
a full week and really just holdthat question, not trying to
answer it, just being reallycurious about it and asking
yourself over and over like am Ihappy?
Am I happy, am I happy?
As a process, it reveals so muchto us.
You know about so many thingsthat may or may not be related
(22:37):
to work, but what I found indoing that with coaching is then
they'd come into the nextsession and it would be like a
profound shift or an insightcame through or something
transformative, as you said,like really taking the interior
world into consideration andbeing like I know we were just
building this growth strategy,but I'm recognizing that it's
(22:57):
more in line with my ego or it'sabout something more aggressive
than I'm recognizing that it'smore in line with my ego or it's
about something more aggressivethan I'm interested in.
And actually what I want is X,whatever it was.
You know so that questions tohold practice has been a core
part of my own practice what weshare with clients and then
became a deck, you know, a fewyears ago, to give to people, to
(23:18):
kind of really have somethingphysical and tangible to be in
that remembrance of.
You know, not to just steam,roll ahead and bulldoze ahead
and really invite into yourleadership this questioning of,
and constant dialogue with yourlife, basically of, like, what
(23:40):
are we doing here and is it whatwe want to be doing?
Julie (23:43):
Yeah, it's like as entrepreneurs, we spend a lot of
time doing.
We have goals, we have plans,we have task lists and ways
we're getting there, but wedon't always spend time just
being, and to me, that's whatthis deck really makes me think
about is like taking some timeto, to spend in the being you
(24:06):
know how do I want to be and howdoes that reconcile, then, with
how I go into the world as adoer.
Casey (24:12):
Yeah, and in the being, again, it's like.
Sometimes for people it feelscounterintuitive.
It's like, okay, okay, justtell me what to do.
For people it feelscounterintuitive.
It's like, okay, okay, justtell me what to do.
Or like what's the next step?
Right, I get that Totally, Ican relate to that.
But in the being is the nextstep, you know, oftentimes, and
it's a slower process or it's aquieter process and and maybe a
(24:34):
little bit more nuanced thanjust like what's the next step
logistically to get me there?
And again, it's a combinationof both.
In business we have to be doingboth, but I think it's that
being part that we're hoping totake more of a stand for,
because that is actually wheresome of that essential
information is, that getsoverrided, and we don't want to
(24:57):
be 10 years down the road and belike, oh no, I never listened
to that part and now you know inhindsight like that was telling
me all these things all thistime, and so I think if we can
just build the forward momentumwith that part of ourselves,
we'll get, you know, maybesomewhere different and
(25:17):
somewhere more fulfilled in theend of it.
Yes, with intention.
Yeah, you know it comes to likehow do you?
And I mean I can say I thinkthat my work with Big Gorgeous
Goals really came out of being adoer and not spending enough
time being.
And then, when I had to spendtime being, I did not know what
(25:37):
to do with myself.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and I hear that a lot.
I mean, my father was abusiness owner and an
entrepreneur and that's kind ofwhat I grew up around and I
really was inspired by seeingwhat he was able to do.
And then retirement was like atrickier phase because it was
like all this focus on providingfor the family and growth and
(26:00):
external motivation, which wasamazing and he's incredible.
But what happens when thatfeels like it's not being met in
the same way for us?
You know, I think a lot ofpeople can relate to that, and
so we want to hold on to anidentity that is more more
complete, I think, than justwhat we're accomplishing or
(26:21):
achieving in that way.
And I remember when we wereworking together on on big,
gorgeous goals in your way, andreading the book and getting
familiar with your work, Ithought a lot about that for
myself.
Again, this was a few years ago,so I had, like this, I still
had more, a stronger kind oflike entrepreneurial drive, in
that way of like, yes, what'slike bigger, where do I want to
(26:42):
go?
How am I encouraging myself toget out of my comfort zone and
not be blocked by anything andreally look into that big, vast
possibility for myself.
And now, as I've over the lastcouple of years, I've really
thought about my big, gorgeousgoals, including a lot more
things than I originally wasincluding in that thinking, you
(27:05):
know, especially in terms of mycommitment to my children and
what I want that to be, mycommitment to just like my life,
like being in my life.
You know, like there's so manyother ways now where before,
when I was reading yourmaterials, thinking like, oh,
yes, I have all these big,gorgeous goals and what do I
(27:26):
want to do?
And you know it was very oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, idea,
idea, idea, idea.
And I feel a little bit morehumbled in that process now of
like what is a big, gorgeousgoal for me?
That includes all of my, all ofit, you know.
Julie (27:46):
Yes, and that, and I do think they are about life work,
like all the pieces comingtogether for that big
overarching, how you want to bein the world.
Casey (27:56):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that that makes for me and I
know we've talked about thisdifferently that makes like
growth and scale.
It changes.
It changes my trajectory of itand my relationship to it, not
that I don't want to have it,but in a way of like I'm
redefining that for myself in away that can feel sustainable
(28:21):
and like my own definition of it.
Julie (28:26):
Yes, yeah, and it is these different phases of life
that we come to, where weredefine what it is that we are
able and want to do in thosedifferent times.
Casey (28:40):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and like who knows where I'll be in
five years or, you know, in 10years or 15 years, like, and I
think one of the things onquestions to hold has also
become a podcast that I host.
But this season what we'refocusing with people on is just
the sheer amount reality andthat can feel scary to some
(29:04):
people about the way change isshowing up in the world right
now and in our individual lives,and so I think there's also, in
being in dialogue with allthese different leaders about
how they're holding change orhow they're supporting people
through change, it's reallyhelped me just understand that
(29:24):
this false notion of control,you know, or anything that I've
liked to enjoy, to believe it'sall just an illusion in these
ways, and that wherever the roadis headed, you know, like how
there are all these tools to bewith change, and wherever it is,
five, 10 years from now, I canstill have these big, gorgeous
goals you're talking about.
I can still have all of this,but it's going to change.
(29:47):
It already is.
It's evolving now and I can'tknow what it is, and that's okay
.
Julie (29:51):
No, and one of my observations right now is is we
really you've got to lean intothe wind a little bit, because
we can't simply protect what is?
Because it can be like, youknow, the sand sliding through
our fingers, and so we've got tobe aware of what is, because it
can be, like, you know, thesand sliding through our fingers
and so we've got to be aware ofwhat is and do what we can, but
(30:11):
we kind of have to lean intothe wind a little bit and look
for what's coming.
Casey (30:13):
Yes, and I think you know different people feel
differently about leaning intothe wind with it, and you know,
I know that even with like thework I've done in the spaces to
like in facilitation or intraining to develop more skills
here, like even just like breathwork or movement practice or
(30:35):
change philosophy, things likethat there's it's still scary
right.
So, like, we still needconversations like this, we
still need community networksand just resources where we all
are supporting each other andleaning into the wind, which I
know is actually what BigGorgeous Goals is about too.
It's about not having them inisolation but supporting each
(30:56):
other in Big Gorgeous Goals andmaking it about, yeah, having a
community effort with it yeah,having a community effort with
it.
Julie (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm a pretty big believer in that.
Community is a big way in ourlives to make things better.
That doing anything alone isharder, whatever it is, whether
it's a task or you knowsomething you're grappling with.
But you know, being doing itand closing in and doing it
alone is not going to be as easyor successful as having
(31:26):
community around you.
Casey (31:28):
Yeah, I totally agree and I think you know we'll say this
to certain clients too likebeing mindful and intentional
about what community you'resurrounding yourself.
In those kinds of situations,especially when it's something
like striving for a big goal ormoving into uncomfortable
(31:49):
territory with yourself, youknow it's like who's on that
team with you becomes reallyimportant, because it could be
many things.
But even like a small exampleis like when we're working with
clients and let's say they'reredoing their brand identity and
they're going to share feedback, we say like just, or they're
going to ask for, solicitfeedback.
(32:10):
It's like be mindful of who isgiving that to you and and what
their, what their role is.
Again, not to say don't getfeedback from people, but it's
like who is that community,who's on your team?
Are they uplifting you andseeing you in that higher
potential?
And if not, what's the kind of,what's the piece they're
(32:30):
bringing to the puzzle thatyou're?
You know, I think we can beintentional about who we're
trying to surround ourselveswith in these bigger times.
Julie (32:38):
And asking the right questions when you want feedback
too.
Casey (32:43):
Yes, exactly.
Julie (32:45):
Because you know you leave things too open and you're
going to get feedback thatisn't actually helpful to you.
Casey (32:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yes, it's about we.
We led a workshop with a kindof large international
organization at one point,caitlin and I, and it was about
being able to just identify theneed and then name the need.
I think that we forget how hardthat can actually be to even be
(33:12):
able to identify the need orthe type of feedback we want.
You know, it's like that's thefirst step, is like well, first
step is kind of like evenunderstanding you might want
feedback or you have a need thatneeds to get reconciled, and
then, once you have thatawareness, it's like okay, what
is it, though?
Like really getting clear on,like what it is that you're
wanting support around, and then, and then the next part of the
(33:36):
process is like how do youactually express that and name
that and and to who?
And it's a lot more complicated.
It's a lot more difficult andcomplicated than it sounds.
You know people are like oh,just say what you need, and I
know for myself, I'm like Idon't know, like I'm not sure.
You know it's been like aprocess, but it's a good process
.
I think, especially in anybodywho's listening, that's in any
(33:58):
kind of like business leadership, to really, really get
articulate with your words andwhat it and identifying what it
is that things are kind ofcalling you forward.
Julie (34:10):
No, I think it's so important and we don't do enough
of it.
That's the real truth, andbecause we don't do enough of it
, it gets more and moredifficult to access.
Casey (34:22):
Yeah.
Julie (34:23):
Practice right.
Casey (34:24):
Like so many things in life, we get better when we
practice it's just building themuscle and not being scared to
not know how to do it or, likeyou know, any of those kinds of
things.
And again, that's like thatcomes down to being around
people who are holding you in ahigher, higher potential and,
you know, with intention andgoodness, so that you can try on
that muscle and not feelthreatened by it.
Julie (34:49):
No, exactly Practicing and failing, you know, like
things not going exactly the wayyou want, and practicing again
and doing it in that state whereyou do feel held.
Casey (35:01):
Yeah, I I in as I'm getting older.
I recently found strengthtraining and when I'm in the gym
they always say like I want youto fail and I'm like I don't
want to.
Julie (35:14):
I don't like failure.
Casey (35:16):
I don't like that.
But it's been this reallyactually interesting thing and
even this morning in the process, like they were having me do
something and it was like Icouldn't do it and they were
like we want you to fail, likefailure is a good thing, and I
was just like for like mynervous system and everything,
and I think so manyentrepreneurs would understand
this.
There is so such a huge amountof pressure all the time and I
(35:41):
have that the one I mentioned inthe Enneagram, which is a
perfectionist, and it's reallyinternally driven on.
I don't critique others on thatstandard, I critique myself and
there's so much pressure toalways maintain public
perception, always do it right,always be the step ahead, always
(36:02):
, never do the failure.
So I was having this moment inthe gym today when they were
nicely nudging me to fail, thatI was like I think this is
really like just such a criticalthing that, like in my next
phase that I'm just getting moreand more comfortable with, and
that goes into like facing thewind, like you're talking about,
which is like I don't knowthere's so much wisdom in the
(36:24):
failing and that's superuncomfortable.
Julie (36:29):
Yeah, it's kind of interesting too, though, because
it's almost like, if you canlearn it on a physical level,
can you take up to you know,your work and into your head in
a way that maybe it's an easiergateway.
I don't know.
Casey (36:44):
Yeah, exactly, but I was appreciative of this person
reminding me of this thismorning and I know that they
love me, so it wasn't okaysomebody telling me to fail, but
I was like I'm so uncomfortablefailing.
I was like, oh, I think I got agrowth edge here that I got to-
.
Julie (37:00):
Definitely and I really feel like that's the story for
all of us is chasing thosegrowth edges and seeing where
they take us.
Casey (37:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and laughing along with it.
You know what I mean.
Like things can feel so seriousall the time and I just think
about that a lot.
Like thank goodness for mychildren, because when my life
feels so serious and my kids arelike, do something really silly
, and I'm like, oh yeah, likelife is just it's, it's all just
(37:32):
life, you know what I mean.
Like we just have to, it's justwhat it is.
And my kids are a huge, hugereminder of that for me every
day.
Of like, oh yeah, don't getswept away in this stuff.
You know, there's always justlike this, the silly face, or
something like that.
Julie (37:47):
And there's always a way to figure out what seems like
the most difficult of problems.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, good.
Well, thank you so much forchatting with me today.
It was a great conversation andI'm so glad to reconnect.
Casey (38:04):
Yes, I appreciate it.
I appreciate for everybodylistening and thank you so much.
Julie (38:10):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
podcast platform so you won'tmiss any episodes.
Figure 8 isn't just a podcast.
It's a way of seeing the big,gorgeous goals of women
entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
(38:31):
book Big Gorgeous Goals onAmazon, anywhere you might live.
For more about my growth andleadership training programs,
visit www.
julieellis.
ca to see how we might worktogether.
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
(38:53):
Once again, that's www.
juliellis.
ca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure 8.
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