December 12, 2024 • 35 mins
Julie's Big Gorgeous Goals: Official Workbook is here! Order your copy today.
Canada's top woman entrepreneur, Kelsey Kitsch, takes center stage as she discusses her remarkable career path characterized by bold choices and relentless ambition. From an unorthodox application to the Ivy Business School to leading ventures in frontier industries like land development and psychedelic drug research, Kelsey's story is one of creativity and fearless exploration. Her "why not try?" attitude serves as a powerful lesson for aspiring entrepreneurs, demonstrating the impact of seizing opportunities and embracing the unknown.
As we learn from Kelsey's journey, the theme of diversity in career paths stands out. With a background in management consulting, Kelsey has navigated transitions into construction, subscription boxes, and much more. Her ability to identify and harness the "silver thread" of her passions and capabilities has allowed her to excel across various fields. The episode reveals the risks and rewards that come with being ahead of the curve, encouraging listeners to identify their unique strengths and pursue them with vigor.
The entrepreneurial landscape is fraught with challenges, and Kelsey candidly discusses her experiences with business struggles and transitions. She shares insights into building complementary teams, utilizing tools like the Enneagram for enhanced team dynamics, and the importance of recognizing personal strengths and weaknesses. Kelsey's resilience and ability to adapt to abrupt changes, from market failures to personal health issues, underscore a key takeaway: success is as much about managing crises and learning from failures as it is about celebrating victories. Join us for an inspiring conversation that offers a treasure trove of wisdom for current and aspiring entrepreneurs alike.
Kelsey Kitsch has founded, scaled and consulted to businesses across diverse industries:
- heavy civil infrastructure
- master planned communities
- psychedelic drug development
- digital therapeutics
...and every time uses the same approach and skills: connect with individuals to build trust, build teams and align them on a vision we hold for the future which involves new solutions executed on today.
Simply put, Kelsey is a visionary who inspires with integrity and builds trust, resulting in the formation of world class teams that together, deliver results.
Kelsey speaks on the future of work at the intersection of psychedelics and culture. She takes consulting work on a sharp shooter basis. She sits on two non-profit boards- both squarely focussed on healing people and the planet.
As her passion project, she is devoting time to a women in psychedelics documentary project this year.
Julie and Kelsey discuss...
**(00:00:04)** Women Entrepreneur Success Stories
**(00:08:45)** Diverse Career Paths With Creativity
**(00:15:35)** Navigating Entrepreneurial Challenges and Success
You can connect with Julie on LinkedIn or Instagram.
Find Julie's writing at her blog or by ordering her book Big Gorgeous Goals and the brand new official companion workbook!
What did you think of this conversation? We&apos
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Julie (00:04):
Welcome to Figure Eight, where we feature inspiring
stories of women entrepreneurswho have grown their businesses
to seven and eight figuresrevenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, Julie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book Big,gorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure Eight.
(01:08):
Today, my guest is KelseyKitsch, and Kelsey has had a
great journey as an entrepreneur, landing as Canada's number one
woman entrepreneur for a time,as well as being involved with
some really interestingcompanies, from building roads
to building mental health,wellness and being involved in
(01:32):
that industry to a lot of otherreally great ideas she's had for
businesses, some of which havegone and some of which have not.
She is a big thinker, avisionary and someone who
inspires with her integrity.
She builds trust with her teams.
She creates visions that makepeople want to follow her, and I
(01:52):
am thrilled to call her myfriend and to have her here
today as my guest.
Welcome, Kelsey.
Kelsey (01:59):
It's so good to be here, Julie.
I'm A honored but B.
It's so great to be able totalk to a friend who knows all
of the backstories of all ofthese businesses as well, so we
can really dive into like thenitty gritty without a whole lot
of preamble.
Julie (02:15):
Yeah, and I love the sort of eclectic part of your
journey because I I feel like myjourney has been eclectic and
and I really love to get to sortof the gold of like what did
that mean for you, how does itmake you different and you know,
why has it made you successfulultimately?
Um, so diving in a little bit.
(02:38):
Um, you've got an interestingkind of journey to getting your
MBA and I do love your storyabout how you got accepted to to
an MBA program that was veryprestigious.
Kelsey (02:53):
Okay, well, I'll leave with that, so everybody can feel
very comfortable knowing I'mnot the smartest person in the
room.
I applied to every MBA schoolin Canada there are 13, or there
were at the time and I rememberthe very first envelope.
I got back this skinny littleenvelope from the University of
Saskatchewan and I was like thisdoes not look good for a lot of
the other universities.
(03:14):
And, long story short, I got abig, thick envelope from Ivy,
which is the MBA school atWestern, and my immediate
thought was oh my gosh, they'vemade a mistake.
I had better send them mydeposit ASAP, because you know
they're going to quickly findout.
I'm not meant to be here.
But long story short, I woundup going there and in the
hallway one day someone stoppedme and said Kelsey Kitsch, I
(03:36):
remember your application, can Italk to you for a second?
And I thought, for sure, thatwas a moment that the gig was up
.
They were going to say, like wedid make a mistake, it's time
to go home.
And, as it turns out, um, thiswoman happened to walk into the
admissions room and see myapplication on the top of the no
pile, but there was a drawingon the covering letter of it, as
(03:57):
opposed to the typical, youknow, covering letter.
So she picked it up and read itand told the admissions
committee that they should letme in off the wait list if
someone didn't take their spot.
So I got in on the very finalday that you can get in and I
drove up to Ontario and thereason that she let me in was
this drawing was about relatingmyself to the universe.
(04:19):
It was a picture of theuniverse interstitial, and I
talked about myself all the wayfrom just being human right down
to what really makes me me andhow I'll show up in the MBA
class and always in my business,going forward as someone of
high integrity and a lot ofpassion.
And that's how I made it in.
(04:41):
You know Hail Mary, but I thinka lot of my success has been
throwing Hail Marys andthankfully people have received
them.
Julie (04:50):
Yeah, well, and it's like you know the Hail Mary, or like
, how do you, how do you findthe luck along the way?
And take it and like, bring itwith the hard work and make
something from it you
I think one of the things thatI have found absolutely and I'm
just as scared.
You know, I think one of thethings that I have found
absolutely and I'm just asscared as everyone else.
I think there's also thisimpression about me like I'm
(05:11):
just out there, no worries, notroubles, but I'm terrified most
of the time and I often think,like if I don't ask, it's a
standing no.
So what's the harm in making aneffort?
Um, and certainly applying toivy, was that like it was 250, I
thought it might as well.
It just burned, but had I nottried it, I would have never got
(05:35):
a yes.
So I always say to people youknow like you're giving yourself
a no without giving it a try,and yeah.
Yeah, it's so.
Yeah, it is that I say it oftenlike no's are free.
I mean, maybe they were $250 inthis case, but like, really
(05:57):
like, if you don't ask, youdon't ever know if you'll get a
yes.
Kelsey (06:02):
Yeah, I was going to say I found that with team building
, you know, like if we want tojump forward into that a little
bit and we'll go in a bit of acircle, but I have hired so many
people to join my teams that Iwould have absolutely assumed
they were a no, but I havealways stuck with my own dogma
(06:22):
of give them the opportunity tosay no.
You know, I remember sending aLinkedIn message to a woman who
was formerly with Headspace,which is like a big meditation
app, and she was a head ofproduct and science, and there
was no good reason that, a shewould even open it, b she would
take the three minutes to readthis whole thing that I wrote,
and C she might even respond.
(06:43):
And within I think about twohours, she responded and agreed
to a meeting and then ultimatelyshe became my chief on a
digital therapeutics program ina totally different industry,
and we poached her.
Like I, to this day, I stillcannot believe that happened.
But what I didn't know was whatwas going on for her in her
(07:03):
background.
Right, she was unhappy, she waslooking for something new.
She didn't want to put it onher LinkedIn that she was
looking.
And here I come in her inboxjust with the right thing at the
right time, a little bit likedivine intervention, um.
So again, just like, givepeople the opportunity to say no
or yes.
(07:23):
Don't steal them from theopportunity to believe in you.
Julie (07:29):
Yeah, I think that's such a great point because, you
really do.
You cut yourself off frompossibility.
Kelsey (07:39):
And everyone likes a surprise, Everyone likes to feel
wanted, Everyone likes you knowsomething to come in where they
say I really noticed you, I'vebeen paying attention, what you
do matters and I'd love for youto join us.
And that's rare.
Usually it's the other wayaround.
Usually it's you know, we'reout there looking for the
opportunity or we're waiting forsomeone to call us and dah, dah
(08:01):
, dah.
And there's nothing quite asgood as, you know, being a
surprise in someone's inbox tosay, hey, I took the effort to
come to understand you.
I'd really like you to join us.
Julie (08:12):
Yeah, I think that that's a really great point is that we
don't ask.
Kelsey (08:20):
I love asking.
Julie (08:21):
I know it's great.
It makes me think about yourkind of eclectic path of
entrepreneurship in terms oflike industries and roles that
you've had, and so can you walkus a little bit through the
various things that you've done,because I have a few questions
for you about how that's shapedwhere you are today?
Kelsey (08:44):
Sure.
So after I finished my MBA, fora very brief period I became a
management consultant because Ithought that's what all good
MBAs should do.
And I remember about six monthsin looking at my boss and
thinking, if I had $100 to puton her or me, who would I put it
on to determine my future?
So I quit the beginning of, Ithink, this kind of eclectic
(09:09):
thing and the only thing I knewhow to do was to build roads,
because I'd worked constructionthroughout high school, etc.
Putting my way through uni.
So I called some people that Iused to work with and said will
you work for me?
And starts up a constructioncompany.
And then, by virtue of being inthat, starts up a land
development business.
And then after that I had torun, probably five years too
early, with box toys, like it'sall a very big deal now, but
(09:32):
back in 2010, was it Nine?
It really wasn't.
And then after the box toy nothe subscription box era.
Julie (09:42):
Yes, you were ahead of the curve on the subscription
box era.
Kelsey (09:46):
Yes, that's absolutely true.
And then after that I wrote abook and did some speaking
because I'd won these awards thetop female entrepreneur stuff
and then I started a psychedelicdrug research company that I
subsequently took public, and sothat was something entirely
different from from what I wasdoing before, and I feel like I
(10:11):
feel like all of those thingswere things that I wouldn't have
guessed I was doing next, youknow, like it's the old, like in
, in hindsight, it all makessense.
At the time it was like what isgoing to happen next?
What am I doing?
You know, and moving on fromthings before, I think, before I
(10:35):
had somewhere to step onto nextwas really what I always did.
I never really waited until Ihad it all figured out.
I don't know if that's a goodplan, I don't know if I'm
recommending that to anyone butI, but but that's what I did.
Julie (10:53):
Yeah, why do you think?
What is it about you that hasmade you have these diverse
experiences?
Because, like you said, whenyou leave one, you don't know
where you're going next, and sohow does it turn out to be
something so different?
Kelsey (11:05):
I remember for years and years and years wondering, like
what makes me good at anything?
Like why do I keep gettingpicked to be the captain of the
team, to be, you know,valedictorian, to be this, to be
that, when really I have nogood reason to be the person in
all of these places so manytimes?
I mean part of that was a was akind of underestimation of my
(11:29):
capabilities early on I think alot of people have that until
you have a bit of a track record.
But later on, I think the reasonthat I was able to adapt and go
into different industries whichwere just primarily my interest
was because I realized what Ido well isn't really about the
(11:50):
business or the industryspecifically.
And when I introduce myself Isay I'm a creator who deeply
values intimate connection.
So if what I'm interested ininvolves something that's
creative or innovative or or alittle bit frontier or
potentially five years too early, and if I can be intimately
connected either with the team,with the idea, with the space,
(12:15):
in a way that when I wake up inthe morning I really think that
what we're doing could changethings, then what I happen to do
well, which is have ideas andbuild teams and how to just
stick my neck way out, can beapplied to just about any
industry, to just about anyarena, provided I have those two
things the creative outlet andthis intimate connection to it.
Julie (12:40):
Interesting.
And it is sort of interestingbecause I think of, like,
building roads, as there issomething creative about it.
Although I understand it's verytechnical, you've got to do it
right.
So like let's put that as abaseline, but there is something
that's like you're makingsomething that wasn't there
before.
You're like there is andthere's something big about it,
(13:03):
like big equipment, big jobs,long term kind of things right,
and it's sort of interestingbecause there's a string that
like comes through everythingthat you've done, I think, is
that like that big kind ofvastness and that creativity,
with probably like the technicalunderpinning.
Kelsey (13:23):
Yeah, that's a good point.
I mean, the one of my favoritethings to do is to go back and
drive on the roads that I'vebuilt and in the neighborhoods
that I created and I named thestreets and I designed how the
houses would sit and all thesekind of things, because, you're
right, it's big and it's stillvery creative.
So big I guess I don't know.
(13:50):
I think part of that is becauseI feel like I live in the
future a little bit.
I do feel like I'm living fiveyears from now or 10 years from
now, where I can see it alreadyas big as it can be, and I
suppose it's.
I've never set out to be likeI'm going to be the biggest this
thing, or it's not good enoughunless it's big.
It just so happens that whenyou're early enough to any
(14:10):
industry, you're early enough toany neighborhood, or you know
early enough to any given thing,um, you happen to wind up being
kind of big, but the you know,the risk in that is what has
also happened, which is, ifyou're too early, you can be
absolutely not big at allbecause there's no market, you
(14:31):
know.
So it is, um, it's both.
And, uh, I think, I think, foranyone who's listening, who's
looking at the, you know whatmight be their next idea or what
might be their thing that theycan apply themselves to, or like
what's their secret sauce.
I would, I would kind ofsummarize it into a couple of
quick things.
To your point, find that silverthread.
(14:53):
Like what is the thing thatgoes across all the things you
were always interested in.
Like this has been me since Iwas eight.
This is nothing new to anyonewho knew me then.
Um, even when I started thepsychedelic drug company, you
know that was not a surprise.
I'm thinking I'm having a bigcoming out party and everybody's
going to be shocked andeveryone's going.
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
(15:14):
I'm like, oh, so there is thatfor me.
You know that creative aspect.
So find your thing.
That was your silver thread.
And then the other thing is, youknow, with respect to business
acumen, like I really do likethe numbers, I really do like
the math, I really do like thekind of detail, so for me, that
(15:35):
being a part of it's important.
So for anyone who's thinkingabout the aspect of what's the
business structure, think aboutthe kind of the framework that
you like to operate in.
Are you a solo person.
Do you like to work with teams?
Do you like things that arehighly data specific?
Do you like things that needresearch and that really helps
to narrow down the field into?
Okay, here's a few things,here's a way, here's something I
(15:57):
know that I do specificallywell and that can make it feel a
little bit more approachablewhen you want to go and do the
next thing, want to go and dothe next thing.
Julie (16:07):
Yeah, I think that makes a lot like the, the idea of,
yeah, are you a solo person, areyou a team person, are you
introvert or extrovert?
Like, how do you leverage thethings?
That are innate about you tothe opportunities that you could
pursue.
Kelsey (16:24):
And I think, be honest about what you're terrible at.
Like, look, if someone comes towork for me during the
interview, I'll say, like youknow what's going to be terrible
working with me?
I don't read emails.
That's going to make youfrustrated.
I will read the first threelines, but if it's like
scrolling down, man, that'sgoing to be tough for you and
tough for me, because I reallywant to hear what you have to
say.
(16:44):
You know all of the kind ofthings about being honest about
ourselves and our ownshortcomings and relaying those
people to relaying that to thepeople around you or building a
team around you in a way thatthat can support you.
It took me way too long tofigure that out, oh man.
Julie (17:03):
Cause you do need those people who are going to read the
whole damn email and and payattention to every single word
and be like, uh, Kelsey, yes.
Kelsey (17:13):
Yes, and I love those people.
I'm like, thank heavens I, youknow, there was a woman on a
team that I more recently builtand, uh, I love the Enneagram
and she was, she was a six andum, and so when we had this
debrief about her whole team,she was only six, she was way
out on her own and I forget thename of the sixes, but
(17:35):
effectively, she's a detailedperson who's going to highlight
all the things that could gowrong, and I'm on the other end
of the spectrum, being like lowdetail and never mind all the
things that could go wrong.
Everything must go right.
You know, know, sunny days, andI remember the debrief.
The person who was writing itwas like, oh, the two of you are
going to clash and it's youknow what.
(17:55):
No, I love the six and it wasnot interesting doing it.
Julie (18:00):
So six is the loyalist.
They are mitted and securityoriented, right.
Yeah, so they're suspicious andanxious and responsible, which
is, which is a very goodcounterpoint to the let's go
fast and hard and big.
And, and, yes, somebody tell mewhere the holes are in this
(18:20):
plan.
Kelsey (18:21):
Yeah, so finding your like robin to the batman, or
whichever analogy you want touse, and love them up for all
the ways that they like, canfrustrate you and demand of you
things that are required for thescale of a business that took
me a long time to figure out.
I used to get a littlefrustrated.
I used to you know or even nothire that person and just assume
(18:44):
that my acumen would carry usforward, and that turns out not
to be the case, you know.
Julie (18:49):
Right.
Well, it's always interestingwhen you hit the wall of.
It's like that kid in schoolthat we all knew that never
needed study because they wereso smart Right, and they hit a
wall.
You know whether it was in highschool or in university and
they couldn't.
They weren't as successful asthey had once been.
Kelsey (19:14):
And it was sort of that like life altering, like what do
you mean?
What?
What moment for them?
Yeah, absolutely yes.
I had that a couple of times,and even recently, you know, I
think that's the other thingthat people think about when
they look around and they'restarting their business or they
want to scale something, andthey look to other people and
they go, oh, they did it thisway.
So that, therefore, that mustbe the way, and I always caution
people to say, okay, great,like look at some maps, listen
(19:34):
to Julie's show, listen, likeset up your goals, think of all
these different ways that aperson can set themselves up and
then really think about what'syour way.
Like, really think about what'syour way, because doing it
someone else's way, relying ondifferent skills, might not be
the best thing for you.
You got to really pressure testthat.
(19:55):
And sometimes it's like look,it's embarrassing to be a person
that people like oh, you mustknow that.
And I'm like I don't know howto log into my own website.
Julie (20:05):
Right, I have somebody who can get us logged in.
I've got the resources, but I'mnot going to be the one.
Kelsey (20:13):
No, I don't know it, and that's not to say it's below me
.
It's like so many times.
I want to log into my ownwebsite but I can't because I
get all you know.
So.
Julie (20:25):
One of the things I feel like yeah, one of the things I
feel like I love about the sportof entrepreneurship is that the
puzzle can be put together inso many different ways.
There is no one right way and,and although there are maybe
pillars of things that you'regoing to do, at some point, you
know it's figuring out for youwhat's the best and fastest way.
Kelsey (20:46):
Absolutely.
And then I think it's also alittle bit like when it doesn't
work yeah, I've had a lot ofthat like I think people are
often surprised at how manytimes I have been taken out at
the knees um, when it does notwork, to take ownership of the
parts that you're responsiblefor it's actually my favorite
(21:07):
part.
So like, sift through the bonesand the guts of it and go, oh
boy, girl, there, there it is,that's exact, come on now.
But also to to recognize likewe're all human and times change
fast and tech changes fast andpeople move fast and no one
knows what's coming around thecorner.
(21:29):
And to your earlier pointsometimes you just happen to be
the lucky person at the rightplace at the right time.
That that, uh, and hey look, Ihave outworked people and not
one.
That's happened, you know, um,and that is a little bit of luck
of the draw.
But what I do know is that ifyou do stick with it, if you're,
(21:51):
if you're willing to adapt, ifyou're willing to lose and go
great, that was a loss, put iton the board, let's move on.
What's the next thing?
Then?
Ultimately, you're more likelyto succeed if you stay on the
field.
Julie (22:05):
Yes, yes.
And what would you say?
I mean, that's obviously a biglesson You're more likely to
succeed if you stay on the field.
What other things would you sayyou've learned from the losses?
Kelsey (22:20):
It's tremendously important.
First, I'll talk about itfunctionally.
I'll talk, you know, likeorganizationally.
I'll talk about personally,organizationally, really
understanding cash period, likeunderstand your cash, don't hide
(22:40):
away from it, it's comingeither way, you know.
It's like if you have cancer,you have it, whether the
doctor's told you or not.
Understanding cash Number one.
Number two is having like agreat team around you of lawyers
and accountants and people whocan be great advisors for when
things don't go right becausethey won't always and having
(23:01):
having a real, like trustingrelationship with those folks.
And then finally, remindingyourself and this is a lesson,
this is me talking to myselfreminding yourself that the
people who work with and for youare amazing and it's not your
job to save them.
If the business is over, end itgracefully, try and help those
(23:28):
people land, do all the rightthings for everyone, but don't
like, if you know it's over,don't try and like, just keep it
going for the people, just that, that, because they're under a
tremendous amount of stress.
If it's not going great, peoplewill start to leave.
You know, like I think thatpart around business as family
(23:48):
is tricky business.
You know, when these peoplebecome so close to you,
especially founders who have,you know, the right-hand person
and then your right-hand personand now you have 20 people.
Now you have 50 people, andthey were the second in.
You can feel like you can't letthem go move them on set them
(24:11):
sales.
You can feel like you can'tchange things because so I'd say
those things have been.
You know, things I've learnedin the downs that have gone
right.
These are some lessons for me.
And then, on the personal sideof things, I mean having a group
of trusted friends.
You are one of them who you canreally be candid with and say,
(24:32):
hey, here's what's happening forme.
Because, um, you know this,like it's lonely at the top, I
don't care about if you're atthe top or the middle or like
wherever you are.
If you're leading people or youhave a dream, you need the
people who can check you,support you and cheer for you.
(24:53):
You need, you know you needsome front row foam finger
friends who are going.
I believe in your idea.
When it's just you know, youand your friend who believe in
it, um, yeah, that would be myadvice.
Julie (25:08):
I think those are the friends too.
That can be.
Those are the friends also.
That can be the ones that sortof take the foam finger and give
you a solid poke when theydon't think you're maybe looking
as big as you should be, or, uh, when you maybe seem like he
could be a little stuck.
Kelsey (25:26):
Oh, absolutely, I mean, I appreciate.
I appreciate that about you.
I'll call you out straight out,live on your own podcast.
You're one of the greatestpeople to be like hey, are you
doing?
Okay?
Like I don't really know.
I think maybe this is the timefor you to have a look at this.
And you know, certainly thepeople who work for you are
(25:47):
unlikely to say, hey, I thinkwe're headed in the wrong
direction, or hey, I think we'reheaded in the wrong direction,
or hey, I think this ishappening.
And oftentimes, asentrepreneurs, we tend to
protect our family from what'sgoing on when things get hard,
because we don't want them to befrightened or feel any kind of
insecurity.
So we kind of lose access tothat part of our support network
(26:07):
and ultimately it is otherentrepreneurs who get many parts
of the story that can, that canhelp and who have tremendous
resources.
Julie (26:18):
Yeah, that's good.
What's been the hardest partfor you of these transitions?
Kelsey (26:25):
I mean every single time there's been a transition, it's
not been like a gracefulslowdown to a nice easy landing.
I've never been like a grandplanner in that way.
The first one ended, yeah, abit more of a firework show, a
dumpster fire.
What that someone threw somefireworks into is usually kind
of how it feels for me.
(26:46):
Um, the first one ended like,really, because, because I had
three kids, I was commuting backand forth, I got cancer, and I
was like suicidally depressedand couldn't go on.
So that was a prettystraightforward ending, you know
, it just had to.
Um.
The next one ended because weran out of cash, like there was
no market, so just too early.
(27:09):
Um, the next one ended mostlybecause I had young children and
I couldn't fly around theplanet speaking constantly,
because I, you know, it justwasn't conducive to my new
lifestyle.
Uh, the next one ended becausemy board of directors shut me
down.
You know, going public, youlose control, and I just got a
(27:30):
phone call one night thattomorrow, we're firing everyone,
and I had like a team of 26people, um, with I don't know 15
or 17 external full-timeconsultants as well, so that was
like wow, okay, firing myselfand everyone tomorrow.
So most of them were prettyswift, pretty, pretty vicious,
(27:52):
and what I've learned, though,is I need a minute, like I'm
great in crisis, so not aproblem, the house is burning,
I'm on it, let's fire the people, let's make sure we get this,
let's land them well, let's findthem jobs.
You know all the things.
I'm great.
I'm great at landing theburning plane, but as soon as
(28:15):
I'm back on the ground, I needto take a minute to grieve the
loss of the dream.
You know, to grieve the loss ofthe thing that I wanted to build
that, you know, either gotrealized and was over and I was
just like like, oh, it's kind oflike sending your kids off to
school like you did your part,damn um.
(28:35):
Or you never got to finish thestory right.
Like psychedelics and thatcompany for me, are so close to
my heart.
It feels like I wrote the firsttwo chapters and then they just
like pulled the back end of thebook off.
Yeah, the grieving process hasbeen really important.
(28:57):
And then the harvest, like talkunder your arm, whatever you can
.
That's when I'm like OK, whoare my people?
Stay in touch with them.
What did I get?
This, you know, and just start,start running for the next
thing.
And there's no shame in it.
You know I've met so many women, like women in particular, who
have all this shame about athing they started and it didn't
(29:17):
go well, or it wasn't what theythought or I don't know.
It's just, it's a part of thegame.
In the same way that sometimeswhen you play Scrabble, you get
the q like everybody's got the qand you got stuck with it until
the end of the game
Julie (29:33):
And have no U and I'm not happy about it.
Yeah.
Kelsey (29:38):
It's just, you can see the guy with the U and you're
going like come on, man.
So it happens.
But again, you know, if youwant to avoid all of that, do
nothing.
If you want the potential ofsomething great happening, show
up and give it a shot yeah,
Yeah, and it is, the richestground for learning is when
(30:00):
things don't go the way you wantthem to go.
Oh, absolutely like now, when the next thing I want to
do there is it's so much quickerto rule things out, rule things
in, figure out who my earlyteam is, figure out when we're
going to check in, and be likewait a minute, this isn't
working, let's get off thistrain, let's get on a new one.
(30:23):
You know, I just I kind of wishI could take 48 year old
Kelsey's brand and give it to 26year old Kelsey and be like go
girl, just go Like.
Here's 20 years of tuition.
Julie (30:36):
Yeah, but on the other hand, you know it, at 48, you're
not 68, you're not 78, you're48.
Kelsey (30:45):
I know that's the other part.
That's so true.
I mean, age is so interestingto me.
I look at pictures of myselfwhen I was 26 and going and
trying to like borrow 10 milliondollars at the bank for this
land development and at the timeI was like, why is this so hard
?
Why won't they give me themoney?
And I'm like, oh, darling you,wow, no wonder it was so hard,
(31:06):
like you didn't know what youdidn't know.
Um, I love this part.
I love this 50 year old realm.
Um, so much grace to it, somuch clarity to it.
There's just so much kindnessand like.
Um, I can do really difficultthings, really gracefully.
Julie (31:31):
I think that's so important, the idea that, yeah,
it doesn't.
You're not leaving carnage inyour wake, you've been able to
do it, you know, with love, withkindness and with grace.
Kelsey (31:47):
And that goes a tremendously long way.
You know, again, if you bringit back to, you want to build
the next thing.
If somebody is listening todayand they did a thing, or this is
their first time, or they had acorporate job and now they're
thinking about what's next andthey're in their 40s going, is
it too late?
Or 50s thinking oh my gosh,like what am I thinking about?
Oh my God, what better time.
(32:10):
I'm so excited for you, you know, because we can lead with a
kind of skill and acumen thatwas previously inaccessible,
just because we hadn't paidlife's tuition, we hadn't paid
our dues, and this part is likeit's like a really beautiful
carpet laid out for us, so we'djust get to walk along.
(32:31):
It's still going to be tricky,you know.
You might never wear the wrongheels, but you know how to write
yourself a bit, you know.
And I think the other thing issomething I've struggled with a
long time and I often like toshare it just because it's so
important and I still sometimesstruggle with it is the idea of
(32:53):
saying no.
You know, the idea of saying noto the thing that you know in
your soul is not the right fitthe idea to say no to like the
relationship or the staff memberor the contract, or like if you
know it, please trust yourself.
(33:14):
You know, and in the inverse.
If you know it's gonna be great, please trust yourself.
You know, in the middle of thenight, when you're staring at
the ceiling and you're crying,you're're thinking what the hell
did I get myself into?
If you know it in your soul,keep going.
Julie (33:35):
I think that is such great advice to really trust
yourself and learn what thosesignals are and take that trust
and lever yourself forward intonew and great things.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me.
I can't wait to see what youtrust yourself with next and
(33:57):
where you head off to on thisbig adventure we're all on and
I'm really glad we got to havethis conversation today.
Kelsey (34:05):
Thanks for having me, Julie.
It's been a delight.
I'll keep you posted.
You'll be in the front with afoam finger on it.
I'll be looking forward to thecheers and pokes
Perfect.
I love it.
Thanks so much, Kelsey
Thank you.
Julie (34:21):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
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Figure Eight isn't just apodcast.
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entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
(34:42):
book Big, Gorgeous Goals onAmazon, anywhere you might live.
For more about my growth andleadership training programs,
visit www.
julieellis.
ca to see how we might worktogether.
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
(35:03):
Once again, that's www.
julieellis.
ca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure Eight.
Welcome to Figure Eight, where we feature inspiring
stories of women entrepreneurswho have grown their businesses
to seven and eight figuresrevenue.
If you're in the mix of growinga bigger business, these
stories are for you.
Join us as we explore where thetough spots are, how to
overcome them and how to prepareyourself for the next portion
(00:27):
of the climb.
I'm your host, Julie Ellis.
I'm an author, entrepreneur anda growth and leadership coach
who co-founded, grew and exitedan eight-figure business.
This led me to exploring whysome women achieve great things,
and that led to my book Big,gorgeous Goals.
(00:47):
Let's explore the systems,processes and people that help
us grow our businesses to newheights.
If you're interested in growingyour business, this podcast
will help.
Now let's get going.
Hello and welcome to thisepisode of Figure Eight.
(01:08):
Today, my guest is KelseyKitsch, and Kelsey has had a
great journey as an entrepreneur, landing as Canada's number one
woman entrepreneur for a time,as well as being involved with
some really interestingcompanies, from building roads
to building mental health,wellness and being involved in
(01:32):
that industry to a lot of otherreally great ideas she's had for
businesses, some of which havegone and some of which have not.
She is a big thinker, avisionary and someone who
inspires with her integrity.
She builds trust with her teams.
She creates visions that makepeople want to follow her, and I
(01:52):
am thrilled to call her myfriend and to have her here
today as my guest.
Welcome, Kelsey.
Kelsey (01:59):
It's so good to be here, Julie.
I'm A honored but B.
It's so great to be able totalk to a friend who knows all
of the backstories of all ofthese businesses as well, so we
can really dive into like thenitty gritty without a whole lot
of preamble.
Julie (02:15):
Yeah, and I love the sort of eclectic part of your
journey because I I feel like myjourney has been eclectic and
and I really love to get to sortof the gold of like what did
that mean for you, how does itmake you different and you know,
why has it made you successfulultimately?
Um, so diving in a little bit.
(02:38):
Um, you've got an interestingkind of journey to getting your
MBA and I do love your storyabout how you got accepted to to
an MBA program that was veryprestigious.
Kelsey (02:53):
Okay, well, I'll leave with that, so everybody can feel
very comfortable knowing I'mnot the smartest person in the
room.
I applied to every MBA schoolin Canada there are 13, or there
were at the time and I rememberthe very first envelope.
I got back this skinny littleenvelope from the University of
Saskatchewan and I was like thisdoes not look good for a lot of
the other universities.
(03:14):
And, long story short, I got abig, thick envelope from Ivy,
which is the MBA school atWestern, and my immediate
thought was oh my gosh, they'vemade a mistake.
I had better send them mydeposit ASAP, because you know
they're going to quickly findout.
I'm not meant to be here.
But long story short, I woundup going there and in the
hallway one day someone stoppedme and said Kelsey Kitsch, I
(03:36):
remember your application, can Italk to you for a second?
And I thought, for sure, thatwas a moment that the gig was up
.
They were going to say, like wedid make a mistake, it's time
to go home.
And, as it turns out, um, thiswoman happened to walk into the
admissions room and see myapplication on the top of the no
pile, but there was a drawingon the covering letter of it, as
(03:57):
opposed to the typical, youknow, covering letter.
So she picked it up and read itand told the admissions
committee that they should letme in off the wait list if
someone didn't take their spot.
So I got in on the very finalday that you can get in and I
drove up to Ontario and thereason that she let me in was
this drawing was about relatingmyself to the universe.
(04:19):
It was a picture of theuniverse interstitial, and I
talked about myself all the wayfrom just being human right down
to what really makes me me andhow I'll show up in the MBA
class and always in my business,going forward as someone of
high integrity and a lot ofpassion.
And that's how I made it in.
(04:41):
You know Hail Mary, but I thinka lot of my success has been
throwing Hail Marys andthankfully people have received
them.
Julie (04:50):
Yeah, well, and it's like you know the Hail Mary, or like
, how do you, how do you findthe luck along the way?
And take it and like, bring itwith the hard work and make
something from it you
I think one of the things thatI have found absolutely and I'm
just as scared.
You know, I think one of thethings that I have found
absolutely and I'm just asscared as everyone else.
I think there's also thisimpression about me like I'm
(05:11):
just out there, no worries, notroubles, but I'm terrified most
of the time and I often think,like if I don't ask, it's a
standing no.
So what's the harm in making aneffort?
Um, and certainly applying toivy, was that like it was 250, I
thought it might as well.
It just burned, but had I nottried it, I would have never got
(05:35):
a yes.
So I always say to people youknow like you're giving yourself
a no without giving it a try,and yeah.
Yeah, it's so.
Yeah, it is that I say it oftenlike no's are free.
I mean, maybe they were $250 inthis case, but like, really
(05:57):
like, if you don't ask, youdon't ever know if you'll get a
yes.
Kelsey (06:02):
Yeah, I was going to say I found that with team building
, you know, like if we want tojump forward into that a little
bit and we'll go in a bit of acircle, but I have hired so many
people to join my teams that Iwould have absolutely assumed
they were a no, but I havealways stuck with my own dogma
(06:22):
of give them the opportunity tosay no.
You know, I remember sending aLinkedIn message to a woman who
was formerly with Headspace,which is like a big meditation
app, and she was a head ofproduct and science, and there
was no good reason that, a shewould even open it, b she would
take the three minutes to readthis whole thing that I wrote,
and C she might even respond.
(06:43):
And within I think about twohours, she responded and agreed
to a meeting and then ultimatelyshe became my chief on a
digital therapeutics program ina totally different industry,
and we poached her.
Like I, to this day, I stillcannot believe that happened.
But what I didn't know was whatwas going on for her in her
(07:03):
background.
Right, she was unhappy, she waslooking for something new.
She didn't want to put it onher LinkedIn that she was
looking.
And here I come in her inboxjust with the right thing at the
right time, a little bit likedivine intervention, um.
So again, just like, givepeople the opportunity to say no
or yes.
(07:23):
Don't steal them from theopportunity to believe in you.
Julie (07:29):
Yeah, I think that's such a great point because, you
really do.
You cut yourself off frompossibility.
Kelsey (07:39):
And everyone likes a surprise, Everyone likes to feel
wanted, Everyone likes you knowsomething to come in where they
say I really noticed you, I'vebeen paying attention, what you
do matters and I'd love for youto join us.
And that's rare.
Usually it's the other wayaround.
Usually it's you know, we'reout there looking for the
opportunity or we're waiting forsomeone to call us and dah, dah
(08:01):
, dah.
And there's nothing quite asgood as, you know, being a
surprise in someone's inbox tosay, hey, I took the effort to
come to understand you.
I'd really like you to join us.
Julie (08:12):
Yeah, I think that that's a really great point is that we
don't ask.
Kelsey (08:20):
I love asking.
Julie (08:21):
I know it's great.
It makes me think about yourkind of eclectic path of
entrepreneurship in terms oflike industries and roles that
you've had, and so can you walkus a little bit through the
various things that you've done,because I have a few questions
for you about how that's shapedwhere you are today?
Kelsey (08:44):
Sure.
So after I finished my MBA, fora very brief period I became a
management consultant because Ithought that's what all good
MBAs should do.
And I remember about six monthsin looking at my boss and
thinking, if I had $100 to puton her or me, who would I put it
on to determine my future?
So I quit the beginning of, Ithink, this kind of eclectic
(09:09):
thing and the only thing I knewhow to do was to build roads,
because I'd worked constructionthroughout high school, etc.
Putting my way through uni.
So I called some people that Iused to work with and said will
you work for me?
And starts up a constructioncompany.
And then, by virtue of being inthat, starts up a land
development business.
And then after that I had torun, probably five years too
early, with box toys, like it'sall a very big deal now, but
(09:32):
back in 2010, was it Nine?
It really wasn't.
And then after the box toy nothe subscription box era.
Julie (09:42):
Yes, you were ahead of the curve on the subscription
box era.
Kelsey (09:46):
Yes, that's absolutely true.
And then after that I wrote abook and did some speaking
because I'd won these awards thetop female entrepreneur stuff
and then I started a psychedelicdrug research company that I
subsequently took public, and sothat was something entirely
different from from what I wasdoing before, and I feel like I
(10:11):
feel like all of those thingswere things that I wouldn't have
guessed I was doing next, youknow, like it's the old, like in
, in hindsight, it all makessense.
At the time it was like what isgoing to happen next?
What am I doing?
You know, and moving on fromthings before, I think, before I
(10:35):
had somewhere to step onto nextwas really what I always did.
I never really waited until Ihad it all figured out.
I don't know if that's a goodplan, I don't know if I'm
recommending that to anyone butI, but but that's what I did.
Julie (10:53):
Yeah, why do you think?
What is it about you that hasmade you have these diverse
experiences?
Because, like you said, whenyou leave one, you don't know
where you're going next, and sohow does it turn out to be
something so different?
Kelsey (11:05):
I remember for years and years and years wondering, like
what makes me good at anything?
Like why do I keep gettingpicked to be the captain of the
team, to be, you know,valedictorian, to be this, to be
that, when really I have nogood reason to be the person in
all of these places so manytimes?
I mean part of that was a was akind of underestimation of my
(11:29):
capabilities early on I think alot of people have that until
you have a bit of a track record.
But later on, I think the reasonthat I was able to adapt and go
into different industries whichwere just primarily my interest
was because I realized what Ido well isn't really about the
(11:50):
business or the industryspecifically.
And when I introduce myself Isay I'm a creator who deeply
values intimate connection.
So if what I'm interested ininvolves something that's
creative or innovative or or alittle bit frontier or
potentially five years too early, and if I can be intimately
connected either with the team,with the idea, with the space,
(12:15):
in a way that when I wake up inthe morning I really think that
what we're doing could changethings, then what I happen to do
well, which is have ideas andbuild teams and how to just
stick my neck way out, can beapplied to just about any
industry, to just about anyarena, provided I have those two
things the creative outlet andthis intimate connection to it.
Julie (12:40):
Interesting.
And it is sort of interestingbecause I think of, like,
building roads, as there issomething creative about it.
Although I understand it's verytechnical, you've got to do it
right.
So like let's put that as abaseline, but there is something
that's like you're makingsomething that wasn't there
before.
You're like there is andthere's something big about it,
(13:03):
like big equipment, big jobs,long term kind of things right,
and it's sort of interestingbecause there's a string that
like comes through everythingthat you've done, I think, is
that like that big kind ofvastness and that creativity,
with probably like the technicalunderpinning.
Kelsey (13:23):
Yeah, that's a good point.
I mean, the one of my favoritethings to do is to go back and
drive on the roads that I'vebuilt and in the neighborhoods
that I created and I named thestreets and I designed how the
houses would sit and all thesekind of things, because, you're
right, it's big and it's stillvery creative.
So big I guess I don't know.
(13:50):
I think part of that is becauseI feel like I live in the
future a little bit.
I do feel like I'm living fiveyears from now or 10 years from
now, where I can see it alreadyas big as it can be, and I
suppose it's.
I've never set out to be likeI'm going to be the biggest this
thing, or it's not good enoughunless it's big.
It just so happens that whenyou're early enough to any
(14:10):
industry, you're early enough toany neighborhood, or you know
early enough to any given thing,um, you happen to wind up being
kind of big, but the you know,the risk in that is what has
also happened, which is, ifyou're too early, you can be
absolutely not big at allbecause there's no market, you
(14:31):
know.
So it is, um, it's both.
And, uh, I think, I think, foranyone who's listening, who's
looking at the, you know whatmight be their next idea or what
might be their thing that theycan apply themselves to, or like
what's their secret sauce.
I would, I would kind ofsummarize it into a couple of
quick things.
To your point, find that silverthread.
(14:53):
Like what is the thing thatgoes across all the things you
were always interested in.
Like this has been me since Iwas eight.
This is nothing new to anyonewho knew me then.
Um, even when I started thepsychedelic drug company, you
know that was not a surprise.
I'm thinking I'm having a bigcoming out party and everybody's
going to be shocked andeveryone's going.
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
(15:14):
I'm like, oh, so there is thatfor me.
You know that creative aspect.
So find your thing.
That was your silver thread.
And then the other thing is, youknow, with respect to business
acumen, like I really do likethe numbers, I really do like
the math, I really do like thekind of detail, so for me, that
(15:35):
being a part of it's important.
So for anyone who's thinkingabout the aspect of what's the
business structure, think aboutthe kind of the framework that
you like to operate in.
Are you a solo person.
Do you like to work with teams?
Do you like things that arehighly data specific?
Do you like things that needresearch and that really helps
to narrow down the field into?
Okay, here's a few things,here's a way, here's something I
(15:57):
know that I do specificallywell and that can make it feel a
little bit more approachablewhen you want to go and do the
next thing, want to go and dothe next thing.
Julie (16:07):
Yeah, I think that makes a lot like the, the idea of,
yeah, are you a solo person, areyou a team person, are you
introvert or extrovert?
Like, how do you leverage thethings?
That are innate about you tothe opportunities that you could
pursue.
Kelsey (16:24):
And I think, be honest about what you're terrible at.
Like, look, if someone comes towork for me during the
interview, I'll say, like youknow what's going to be terrible
working with me?
I don't read emails.
That's going to make youfrustrated.
I will read the first threelines, but if it's like
scrolling down, man, that'sgoing to be tough for you and
tough for me, because I reallywant to hear what you have to
say.
(16:44):
You know all of the kind ofthings about being honest about
ourselves and our ownshortcomings and relaying those
people to relaying that to thepeople around you or building a
team around you in a way thatthat can support you.
It took me way too long tofigure that out, oh man.
Julie (17:03):
Cause you do need those people who are going to read the
whole damn email and and payattention to every single word
and be like, uh, Kelsey, yes.
Kelsey (17:13):
Yes, and I love those people.
I'm like, thank heavens I, youknow, there was a woman on a
team that I more recently builtand, uh, I love the Enneagram
and she was, she was a six andum, and so when we had this
debrief about her whole team,she was only six, she was way
out on her own and I forget thename of the sixes, but
(17:35):
effectively, she's a detailedperson who's going to highlight
all the things that could gowrong, and I'm on the other end
of the spectrum, being like lowdetail and never mind all the
things that could go wrong.
Everything must go right.
You know, know, sunny days, andI remember the debrief.
The person who was writing itwas like, oh, the two of you are
going to clash and it's youknow what.
(17:55):
No, I love the six and it wasnot interesting doing it.
Julie (18:00):
So six is the loyalist.
They are mitted and securityoriented, right.
Yeah, so they're suspicious andanxious and responsible, which
is, which is a very goodcounterpoint to the let's go
fast and hard and big.
And, and, yes, somebody tell mewhere the holes are in this
(18:20):
plan.
Kelsey (18:21):
Yeah, so finding your like robin to the batman, or
whichever analogy you want touse, and love them up for all
the ways that they like, canfrustrate you and demand of you
things that are required for thescale of a business that took
me a long time to figure out.
I used to get a littlefrustrated.
I used to you know or even nothire that person and just assume
(18:44):
that my acumen would carry usforward, and that turns out not
to be the case, you know.
Julie (18:49):
Right.
Well, it's always interestingwhen you hit the wall of.
It's like that kid in schoolthat we all knew that never
needed study because they wereso smart Right, and they hit a
wall.
You know whether it was in highschool or in university and
they couldn't.
They weren't as successful asthey had once been.
Kelsey (19:14):
And it was sort of that like life altering, like what do
you mean?
What?
What moment for them?
Yeah, absolutely yes.
I had that a couple of times,and even recently, you know, I
think that's the other thingthat people think about when
they look around and they'restarting their business or they
want to scale something, andthey look to other people and
they go, oh, they did it thisway.
So that, therefore, that mustbe the way, and I always caution
people to say, okay, great,like look at some maps, listen
(19:34):
to Julie's show, listen, likeset up your goals, think of all
these different ways that aperson can set themselves up and
then really think about what'syour way.
Like, really think about what'syour way, because doing it
someone else's way, relying ondifferent skills, might not be
the best thing for you.
You got to really pressure testthat.
(19:55):
And sometimes it's like look,it's embarrassing to be a person
that people like oh, you mustknow that.
And I'm like I don't know howto log into my own website.
Julie (20:05):
Right, I have somebody who can get us logged in.
I've got the resources, but I'mnot going to be the one.
Kelsey (20:13):
No, I don't know it, and that's not to say it's below me
.
It's like so many times.
I want to log into my ownwebsite but I can't because I
get all you know.
So.
Julie (20:25):
One of the things I feel like yeah, one of the things I
feel like I love about the sportof entrepreneurship is that the
puzzle can be put together inso many different ways.
There is no one right way and,and although there are maybe
pillars of things that you'regoing to do, at some point, you
know it's figuring out for youwhat's the best and fastest way.
Kelsey (20:46):
Absolutely.
And then I think it's also alittle bit like when it doesn't
work yeah, I've had a lot ofthat like I think people are
often surprised at how manytimes I have been taken out at
the knees um, when it does notwork, to take ownership of the
parts that you're responsiblefor it's actually my favorite
(21:07):
part.
So like, sift through the bonesand the guts of it and go, oh
boy, girl, there, there it is,that's exact, come on now.
But also to to recognize likewe're all human and times change
fast and tech changes fast andpeople move fast and no one
knows what's coming around thecorner.
(21:29):
And to your earlier pointsometimes you just happen to be
the lucky person at the rightplace at the right time.
That that, uh, and hey look, Ihave outworked people and not
one.
That's happened, you know, um,and that is a little bit of luck
of the draw.
But what I do know is that ifyou do stick with it, if you're,
(21:51):
if you're willing to adapt, ifyou're willing to lose and go
great, that was a loss, put iton the board, let's move on.
What's the next thing?
Then?
Ultimately, you're more likelyto succeed if you stay on the
field.
Julie (22:05):
Yes, yes.
And what would you say?
I mean, that's obviously a biglesson You're more likely to
succeed if you stay on the field.
What other things would you sayyou've learned from the losses?
Kelsey (22:20):
It's tremendously important.
First, I'll talk about itfunctionally.
I'll talk, you know, likeorganizationally.
I'll talk about personally,organizationally, really
understanding cash period, likeunderstand your cash, don't hide
(22:40):
away from it, it's comingeither way, you know.
It's like if you have cancer,you have it, whether the
doctor's told you or not.
Understanding cash Number one.
Number two is having like agreat team around you of lawyers
and accountants and people whocan be great advisors for when
things don't go right becausethey won't always and having
(23:01):
having a real, like trustingrelationship with those folks.
And then finally, remindingyourself and this is a lesson,
this is me talking to myselfreminding yourself that the
people who work with and for youare amazing and it's not your
job to save them.
If the business is over, end itgracefully, try and help those
(23:28):
people land, do all the rightthings for everyone, but don't
like, if you know it's over,don't try and like, just keep it
going for the people, just that, that, because they're under a
tremendous amount of stress.
If it's not going great, peoplewill start to leave.
You know, like I think thatpart around business as family
(23:48):
is tricky business.
You know, when these peoplebecome so close to you,
especially founders who have,you know, the right-hand person
and then your right-hand personand now you have 20 people.
Now you have 50 people, andthey were the second in.
You can feel like you can't letthem go move them on set them
(24:11):
sales.
You can feel like you can'tchange things because so I'd say
those things have been.
You know, things I've learnedin the downs that have gone
right.
These are some lessons for me.
And then, on the personal sideof things, I mean having a group
of trusted friends.
You are one of them who you canreally be candid with and say,
(24:32):
hey, here's what's happening forme.
Because, um, you know this,like it's lonely at the top, I
don't care about if you're atthe top or the middle or like
wherever you are.
If you're leading people or youhave a dream, you need the
people who can check you,support you and cheer for you.
(24:53):
You need, you know you needsome front row foam finger
friends who are going.
I believe in your idea.
When it's just you know, youand your friend who believe in
it, um, yeah, that would be myadvice.
Julie (25:08):
I think those are the friends too.
That can be.
Those are the friends also.
That can be the ones that sortof take the foam finger and give
you a solid poke when theydon't think you're maybe looking
as big as you should be, or, uh, when you maybe seem like he
could be a little stuck.
Kelsey (25:26):
Oh, absolutely, I mean, I appreciate.
I appreciate that about you.
I'll call you out straight out,live on your own podcast.
You're one of the greatestpeople to be like hey, are you
doing?
Okay?
Like I don't really know.
I think maybe this is the timefor you to have a look at this.
And you know, certainly thepeople who work for you are
(25:47):
unlikely to say, hey, I thinkwe're headed in the wrong
direction, or hey, I think we'reheaded in the wrong direction,
or hey, I think this ishappening.
And oftentimes, asentrepreneurs, we tend to
protect our family from what'sgoing on when things get hard,
because we don't want them to befrightened or feel any kind of
insecurity.
So we kind of lose access tothat part of our support network
(26:07):
and ultimately it is otherentrepreneurs who get many parts
of the story that can, that canhelp and who have tremendous
resources.
Julie (26:18):
Yeah, that's good.
What's been the hardest partfor you of these transitions?
Kelsey (26:25):
I mean every single time there's been a transition, it's
not been like a gracefulslowdown to a nice easy landing.
I've never been like a grandplanner in that way.
The first one ended, yeah, abit more of a firework show, a
dumpster fire.
What that someone threw somefireworks into is usually kind
of how it feels for me.
(26:46):
Um, the first one ended like,really, because, because I had
three kids, I was commuting backand forth, I got cancer, and I
was like suicidally depressedand couldn't go on.
So that was a prettystraightforward ending, you know
, it just had to.
Um.
The next one ended because weran out of cash, like there was
no market, so just too early.
(27:09):
Um, the next one ended mostlybecause I had young children and
I couldn't fly around theplanet speaking constantly,
because I, you know, it justwasn't conducive to my new
lifestyle.
Uh, the next one ended becausemy board of directors shut me
down.
You know, going public, youlose control, and I just got a
(27:30):
phone call one night thattomorrow, we're firing everyone,
and I had like a team of 26people, um, with I don't know 15
or 17 external full-timeconsultants as well, so that was
like wow, okay, firing myselfand everyone tomorrow.
So most of them were prettyswift, pretty, pretty vicious,
(27:52):
and what I've learned, though,is I need a minute, like I'm
great in crisis, so not aproblem, the house is burning,
I'm on it, let's fire the people, let's make sure we get this,
let's land them well, let's findthem jobs.
You know all the things.
I'm great.
I'm great at landing theburning plane, but as soon as
(28:15):
I'm back on the ground, I needto take a minute to grieve the
loss of the dream.
You know, to grieve the loss ofthe thing that I wanted to build
that, you know, either gotrealized and was over and I was
just like like, oh, it's kind oflike sending your kids off to
school like you did your part,damn um.
(28:35):
Or you never got to finish thestory right.
Like psychedelics and thatcompany for me, are so close to
my heart.
It feels like I wrote the firsttwo chapters and then they just
like pulled the back end of thebook off.
Yeah, the grieving process hasbeen really important.
(28:57):
And then the harvest, like talkunder your arm, whatever you can
.
That's when I'm like OK, whoare my people?
Stay in touch with them.
What did I get?
This, you know, and just start,start running for the next
thing.
And there's no shame in it.
You know I've met so many women, like women in particular, who
have all this shame about athing they started and it didn't
(29:17):
go well, or it wasn't what theythought or I don't know.
It's just, it's a part of thegame.
In the same way that sometimeswhen you play Scrabble, you get
the q like everybody's got the qand you got stuck with it until
the end of the game
Julie (29:33):
And have no U and I'm not happy about it.
Yeah.
Kelsey (29:38):
It's just, you can see the guy with the U and you're
going like come on, man.
So it happens.
But again, you know, if youwant to avoid all of that, do
nothing.
If you want the potential ofsomething great happening, show
up and give it a shot yeah,
Yeah, and it is, the richestground for learning is when
(30:00):
things don't go the way you wantthem to go.
Oh, absolutely like now, when the next thing I want to
do there is it's so much quickerto rule things out, rule things
in, figure out who my earlyteam is, figure out when we're
going to check in, and be likewait a minute, this isn't
working, let's get off thistrain, let's get on a new one.
(30:23):
You know, I just I kind of wishI could take 48 year old
Kelsey's brand and give it to 26year old Kelsey and be like go
girl, just go Like.
Here's 20 years of tuition.
Julie (30:36):
Yeah, but on the other hand, you know it, at 48, you're
not 68, you're not 78, you're48.
Kelsey (30:45):
I know that's the other part.
That's so true.
I mean, age is so interestingto me.
I look at pictures of myselfwhen I was 26 and going and
trying to like borrow 10 milliondollars at the bank for this
land development and at the timeI was like, why is this so hard
?
Why won't they give me themoney?
And I'm like, oh, darling you,wow, no wonder it was so hard,
(31:06):
like you didn't know what youdidn't know.
Um, I love this part.
I love this 50 year old realm.
Um, so much grace to it, somuch clarity to it.
There's just so much kindnessand like.
Um, I can do really difficultthings, really gracefully.
Julie (31:31):
I think that's so important, the idea that, yeah,
it doesn't.
You're not leaving carnage inyour wake, you've been able to
do it, you know, with love, withkindness and with grace.
Kelsey (31:47):
And that goes a tremendously long way.
You know, again, if you bringit back to, you want to build
the next thing.
If somebody is listening todayand they did a thing, or this is
their first time, or they had acorporate job and now they're
thinking about what's next andthey're in their 40s going, is
it too late?
Or 50s thinking oh my gosh,like what am I thinking about?
Oh my God, what better time.
(32:10):
I'm so excited for you, you know, because we can lead with a
kind of skill and acumen thatwas previously inaccessible,
just because we hadn't paidlife's tuition, we hadn't paid
our dues, and this part is likeit's like a really beautiful
carpet laid out for us, so we'djust get to walk along.
(32:31):
It's still going to be tricky,you know.
You might never wear the wrongheels, but you know how to write
yourself a bit, you know.
And I think the other thing issomething I've struggled with a
long time and I often like toshare it just because it's so
important and I still sometimesstruggle with it is the idea of
(32:53):
saying no.
You know, the idea of saying noto the thing that you know in
your soul is not the right fitthe idea to say no to like the
relationship or the staff memberor the contract, or like if you
know it, please trust yourself.
(33:14):
You know, and in the inverse.
If you know it's gonna be great, please trust yourself.
You know, in the middle of thenight, when you're staring at
the ceiling and you're crying,you're're thinking what the hell
did I get myself into?
If you know it in your soul,keep going.
Julie (33:35):
I think that is such great advice to really trust
yourself and learn what thosesignals are and take that trust
and lever yourself forward intonew and great things.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me.
I can't wait to see what youtrust yourself with next and
(33:57):
where you head off to on thisbig adventure we're all on and
I'm really glad we got to havethis conversation today.
Kelsey (34:05):
Thanks for having me, Julie.
It's been a delight.
I'll keep you posted.
You'll be in the front with afoam finger on it.
I'll be looking forward to thecheers and pokes
Perfect.
I love it.
Thanks so much, Kelsey
Thank you.
Julie (34:21):
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please remember to hitsubscribe on your favorite
podcast platform so you won'tmiss any episodes.
Figure Eight isn't just apodcast.
It's a way of seeing the big,gorgeous goals of women
entrepreneurs coming to life.
If you're interested inlearning more, you can find my
(34:42):
book Big, Gorgeous Goals onAmazon, anywhere you might live.
For more about my growth andleadership training programs,
visit www.
julieellis.
ca to see how we might worktogether.
Read my blog or sign up to getyour free diagnostic.
Are you ready for growth?
(35:03):
Once again, that's www.
julieellis.
ca.
When we work together, we allwin.
See you again soon for anotherepisode of Figure Eight.
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