October 19, 2022 • 34 mins
I am joined by author and journalist Sheila Yasmin Mariker. Her debut novel, The Goddess Effect, was released October 1st. The Goddess Effect is a tongue and cheek look at the wellness industry. It follows 30-something Anita on a journey to find just how far she is willing to go to become her best self.
Her work has been published in the New Yorker, the New York Times, the Economist, Fortune, Bloomberg Businessweek, Vogue, and many other publications. Sheila began her career at ABC News. A native of New Jersey, she is a graduate of Cornellt University, where she studied history. She lives in Los Angeles with her husband.
We talk about how different it was to step into the role of author after years of being a journalist. We talk about the wellness industry and why it was the perfect backdrop for Anita's experience. Anita, as well as a lot of other people didn't have her life figured out by the magic age we often associate with adulthood. We talk about societal pressures put on women and how we can change the narrative.
Sheila Yasmin Marikar | Author & Journalist
Sheila Yasmin Marikar (@sheilaym) • Instagram photos and videos
Sheila Yasmin Marikar | Facebook
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the Filled Up Cuppodcast.
We are a different kind ofself-care resource.
One that has nothing to do withbubble baths and face masks, and
everything to do withrediscovering yourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences, and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most
(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.
Ashley (00:32):
I am so excited today.
I have Sheila Yasmin Marikerjoining me.
She is the author of the goddesseffect, which comes out this
October.
She's also a contributor for theNew York times and the new
Yorker magazine.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Sheila (00:48):
Thank you for having me, Ashley, I'm really excited to be
on.
Ashley (00:52):
I love that your book is a satire look of the wellness
industry.
I find that, especially in 2022,that self-care has almost become
like this annoying buzzword andit kind of has a lot of toxic
positivity attached to it.
Can you tell me why you decidedto write this book as a satire
(01:13):
about the wellness industry?
Sheila (01:16):
It actually started out as a book about a very diverse
group of people who lived in ahouse.
That house is the gig where mymain character, Anita ends up
taking up a room after sheleaves New York for LA.
I'm thinking back to when I wasin the first stages of drafting
and I was going to a westHollywood dance cardio class in
(01:40):
Los Angeles where I had recentlymoved and it ended up taking up
this pretty big space in my lifemore than I anticipated when I
first joined.
that workout in addition to alot of other workouts Inspired
what became the goddess effect.
I thought it could be a cool wayfor my main character who was
kind of finding her feed anddidn't really know what it was
(02:03):
that she wanted to do to meetsomeone.
She would sort of look at as arole model and to be around
women who were a little bit moreestablished than her and seemed
to have their acts together morethan she did.
It went from there to, as yousaid, the toxic positivity that
is reinforced by a lot of thewellness industry has only kind
(02:24):
of escalated up since I startedwriting this book back in 2015.
It just felt like there aretimes where the wellness
industry takes itself.
So seriously that.
It sort of begs to be parodied.
And as a woman just living inthe world right now, you really
can't help, but be inundatedwith advertisements and
companies and self called guruswho are trying to tell you to
(02:49):
buy their product.
And maybe this will make youfeel better.
I think there's certainlysomething inherently kind.
of wrong in that you have tospend money to help them build
their business.
And somehow in that process,maybe you'll feel better.
Maybe you won't, maybe you'lljust get hooked to this thing
that ends up ruling your lifemore than you thought it would.
Ashley (03:07):
That is so true.
We're constantly being told thatwe need to change and that this,
magic potion or this,$15 classworkout or all of these things
are gonna make us feel betterabout ourselves.
The idea for a lot of cases, wedon't need to change or do
anything different.
We really just have to lookwithin ourselves to have all of
(03:28):
the answers as like simple andcliche, as that sounds that it
is really funny how much womenespecially are inundated.
Things to, stop us from aging orto change our hair or to lighten
our darken, our skin or all ofthese different things that
it's, you really do almost haveto stop and listen to the
messaging and wonder, does thisbenefit me or does this benefit
(03:49):
them?
Sheila (03:51):
Absolutely.
And what you said about lookingwithin yourself to find that
answer?
Not to sound too.
Woo woo.
But that really is kind of theonly way, because if you compare
yourself to other people orother things outside of
yourself, you really know, neverknow what's going on in, in
anyone else's head.
It's very difficult to.
(04:12):
Find fulfillment from anythingon the outside.
That doesn't mean that we shouldall become monks and just
meditate every day.
but yes increasingly I'm comingto the same conclusion that
validation and that sense ofself-worth is just not something
that you can buy it doesn't comein a package deal for sure.
Ashley (04:32):
Now thinking about the wellness industry, I'm sure that
you had to kind of do differentthings to maybe dip your toe in
to being able to write about it.
What's one positive place orexperience that you've had with
a wellness brand or service.
And what's a negative one thatyou've had.
Sheila (04:50):
That's a great question.
You know, I have to say and whenI think about wellness brands,
my initial thought goes toboutique fitness classes just
because I've tried so many andthey've been part of my life for
a very long time now I will saythat every class and kind of
modality that I've done has donesomething positive for me in the
sense that it has made me sortof prioritize movement or at
(05:15):
least work it into my day.
For example, when I was livingin New York in my twenties and
early thirties, I started goingto Barry's bootcamp, pretty
religiously.
It was getting me out of bed at,you know, six or six 30 in the
morning.
I'd get to the studio by sevenand I'd have an hour to.
Whatever the workout was justkind of focus on moving and
(05:36):
focus on that being my physicalmeditation before diving into
the Workday and going to theoffice.
It was a great way to get into aroutine of, okay, I'm gonna do
something positive for myselfbefore the whole world comes at
me in terms of a negative.
Ooh, it's tough.
I mean, I've tried so manysupplements and kind of, you
(06:00):
know, diet in a box typeprograms that kind of promised a
rejuvenation in me that didn'treally pan out, turned out to a
diarrhea.
Yeah, or just like, okay, you dothis diet for a few days, and
then you resume your normal lifeand you're back to where you
started from after not too long.
(06:22):
But yeah, I think a lot of thatis the sort of silver bullet.
Fallacy of the wellness industrywhere it's like buy this thing
and you'll be better.
Sometimes that works, but a lotof times it just doesn't.
And then you feel like youwasted money and you're suddenly
on a subscription plan, you'respending a hundred dollars a
month for supplements that youdon't even know are working.
Ashley (06:44):
That gets tied into so much shame, it's the shame of
why didn't work for me, or thenalmost like the embarrassment of
having to cancel or having tohave that conversation with
brands.
I do love what you were sayingthough, about having that me
time, whether it is a fitnessclass or whatever that looks
like for the person listening,but I love the idea of taking
time out of your day, everysingle day.
(07:06):
Whether it is an hour fitnessclass, or whether it's like 10
minutes of just not scrollingand like being centered.
But I think that part is soimportant, cuz I think that now
more than ever, we've had to beso accessible to people that it
is really hard to just turneverything off and just focus
(07:26):
for yourself.
Sheila (07:28):
Yeah, it is really hard to turn everything off.
I do remember when I was goingto Barry's bootcamp, I was
working at a news network andreturning emails within a minute
or two of receiving them wasreally drilled into us by our
bosses, or at least was drilledinto me by mine.
I would often be on thetreadmill with my Blackberry or
(07:49):
iPhone or whatever, right therein the cup holder next to me.
Sort of like bracing on edgewaiting for that light or that
notification to come on.
It took a very long time andmany sort of changes in jobs and
where I lived to sort of.
Say okay.
The phone's gonna go over there.
And even if I'm doing some,Peloton or some kind of
(08:09):
connected fitness thing, likeyou're not gonna look at your
text messages.
You're not gonna look atInstagram email.
None of it.
This is just for you to get lostin the class and your own
thoughts.
And you're not responding toanyone for the next, however
long the workout is
Ashley (08:27):
It is funny because it is really hard to not.
When you see the notificationcome up to not look at it I
think collectively that shiftdoes seem to be changing a
little bit now where if it doestake an hour to respond like
that's okay, you don't have tobe everything to everybody.
again, it's so much easier saidthan done because I don't know
about you, but like every singletime the notifications, I need
(08:49):
to not necessarily read themall, but I need them to
disappear.
Otherwise I won't be able to saylike active in the moment and
I'll constantly be looking atsomething else.
Is important for everybody tokind of work towards the fact
that you don't have to beeverything to everybody in the
moment.
And it's okay to take that time
Sheila (09:07):
absolutely.
And that's actually an evolutionthat Anita in the goddess effect
really goes through where she'ssort of when the book starts
out, you see her sort offrantically emailing this head
of HR at Gonzo, the networkwhere she wants to get hired.
She's just.
Constantly refreshing her email,wondering why hasn't this person
gotten back to me?
What on earth is going on?
(09:28):
This is completely unacceptablebehavior.
When people text her, they DMher.
She sort of feels like, okay,immediately, I need to get back
to this.
I need to, to sort of respondand feel seen in that way.
The journey that she goesthrough of sort of loosening her
grip, physically andfiguratively on her phone and on
(09:48):
responding to the externalworld's demands is definitely
something that I myself in acontinual battle with.
But I'd like to think that I'm alittle bit better about it now
than I was you know, 10 yearsago.
Ashley (10:02):
For Anita.
Do you think that it will besort of a one book journey, or
do you think that you'll writemore books about it?
Sheila (10:09):
That's a great question.
You know, I left it open towardsthe end.
and certainly without givinganything away, there's certainly
a future that Anita could havein another novel at the moment
I'm not.
Writing anything related to heror to the characters from the
goddess effect.
(10:29):
I feel like I, really like theway that they all sort of held
together there, but, certainlyif people wanted to see more, I
would be absolutely open to thepossibility of exploring what
happens after this book ends.
Ashley (10:45):
I love that your book really is so funny.
And so.
Relevant to right now.
Now if you know, Hollywood cameknocking and they decided to
make it into a movie, what wouldbe your dream cast for your
characters?
Sheila (11:00):
I would absolutely love for, this to be made into a film
or a series or have that kind ofscreen adaptation.
Because there are some producerswho have expressed interest and
who are, looking it over now.
I'm hesitant to attach any namesto it, just because I want to.
If anyone is interested, Icertainly want to hear them out.
(11:22):
I do have some names in my head,but for Anita in particular, I
think it would be a greatopportunity to see a south Asian
actress or a south AsianAmerican actress who is maybe
not.
Incredibly well known, embracethat role.
I think there's a lot ofopportunity and potential there,
and I'd love to see a face thatmaybe audiences aren't super
(11:43):
familiar with and get to knowher through the goddess effect.
Ashley (11:46):
That's another change that I'm hoping we start to see
going forward is that there arenot just white people being cast
in things that we really areseeing diverse characters and
real people in more productionsgoing forward.
Sheila (12:01):
Absolutely.
I made every effort to be asinclusive as possible.
When thinking about thesecharacters, while also
acknowledging that there arecharacters in there who they
could in theory, be played by anumber of different actors or
actresses what's more specificabout them is their personality
(12:22):
and the things that they do.
And the way that they sort ofmove the story along.
I think for a very long time,it's been that the industry has
thought that only.
White actors can play a certaintype of role when in reality,
there is a lot of differentoptions and there are certain
characters that do have aspecific background, but there
are others where, let's make thefilm version of this.
(12:44):
Look as much like LA now aspossible.
Los Angeles being a superdiverse city.
I feel like we should see allsorts of different people in
this.
Ashley (12:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
People wanna be able to like seethemselves or aspire to be able
to do what the people thatthey're watching on TV are
doing.
And if we continue to cast theexact same people and
everything, then we're reallymissing out on that potential.
Sheila (13:12):
Absolutely.
I completely agree.
I do think that there arecertain stories about particular
communities, like in the goddesseffect, we have a big Indian
wedding and of a lot ofcharacters in those chapters are
Indian and I'm Indian American.
I do have a lot of.
Friends who are also IndianAmerican have a similar
upbringing.
(13:33):
But that said, I think that whenyou tell stories about certain
minority groups, there couldalso be a lot of universality
there.
You know, we saw with crazy richAsians, what huge success that
was, and you didn't have to beAsian to like that movie as the
box office numbers.
Ashley (13:49):
It's a hilarious, fantastic movie.
Sheila (13:52):
Of course, and as the sensation that the book and the
ones that preceded it were Ithink that when, you delve into
a specific community and reallyhighlight what it is about them,
like what's going on with Anitaand her mother.
Yes.
They're both Indian, but that'sa struggle that anyone from.
Any background can sort ofidentify with and apply to
(14:15):
themselves.
This idea of I'm not good enoughas a child.
And my parents don't like me orI'm trying to make them happy,
but also trying to be myself.
That's really, it's a universalstory that I hope a lot of
people can relate to.
Ashley (14:28):
I think crazy rich Asians.
was a fantastic Movie in thesense that I think Hollywood in
general had said, you know, youcouldn't have an Asian cast or
this wouldn't sell or even withthe Marvel movies and black
Panther.
And both of those films provedthat people love stories about
humans, and we really don't needto make it a race thing.
Sheila (14:51):
Absolutely that that's so well said, Ashley, that is
the whole crux of this.
There is a universality to thehuman story that is just going
to apply no matter where youcome from
Ashley (15:04):
thinking about crazy rich Asians and his Kevin's name
is thank you.
He wrote a thing for your book.
How did that end up coming tobe?
Sheila (15:15):
So I'm so lucky to know him.
And so thankful that he read andhad wonderful things to say
about the goddess effect.
We actually first met when I waswriting an article about him for
the economist and the magazinewanted me to go gallery hopping
with him in LA because he's abig art collector And also lives
(15:39):
in Los Angeles like me.
He was so down to earth and openand I was working on my, I don't
know, 18th umpteenth, whateverrevision of the goddess effect
at that point and telling himabout it and asking for advice.
He was really helpful.
We stayed in touch after that.
I ended up profiling him againfor the new Yorker when the
(16:02):
paperback edition of sex andvanity, his latest book came
out.
And then at that point, thegoddess effect was more sort of
fully coming together.
I asked if he would considerreading it when it was ready and
offering praise if he loved it.
And thankfully that all came topass.
Ashley (16:19):
That's awesome.
And so exciting.
I would imagine would be areally great thing to have
connected to your book, to helpwith the publicity.
Sheila (16:29):
For sure, for sure.
Because as we've been sayingcrazy, rich Asians continues to
be such a sensation to have anendorsement from someone like
Kevin Kwan, who really is justbesides being a wonderful human
is just an incredible author andcreator in Hollywood.
It means the world for a debutauthor like myself.
Ashley (16:49):
Absolutely.
Now you had touched on, therewas many revisions.
How did you find the writingprocess for a book versus.
Your articles, how did you findthat that was different?
Sheila (17:00):
It was so different, and it was really frustrating for a
while because I had sort of comeup with a sort of scheme for
getting an article done.
With articles, you have anaudience, an editor who is
hoping to receive your work by acertain deadline.
With a book, there was really,everything was open.
It could be done whenever Iwanted it to be done.
(17:21):
When I started this, I didn'thave a literary agent, so I
didn't really have an audienceof people who were waiting to
read it.
I hadn't really written muchfiction before.
I didn't know how to sort ofscale down all of the options in
the universe that thesecharacters could do and create a
narrative that held togetherthat kept you wanting to turn
(17:42):
the page.
So I started it in 2015 and Igot a few thousand words in and
then I just didn't know what todo next.
For two years I basically didn'twork on it at all in the back of
my mind, I was like, okay, Ineed to do this.
I wanna make progress on this.
I bought some books.
That I thought might help mefigure out how to crack writing
fiction.
(18:02):
It was really when I wasprofiling someone for the new
Yorker and they told me it'salways been my dream to be,
profiled in the new Yorker.
that was.
Sort of a light bulb moment forme thinking my dream is to
publish a novel and I'm notdoing anything about that.
So it took about half of thefollowing year.
This was 2018 for me to finishthe first draft.
(18:26):
And then after that it was aseries of rewritings.
I found an agent.
Thought it was going to workout.
Didn't really work out.
I had to find another one.
I had to sort of swallow my egoand say, I really need to like
cast as wide of a net aspossible and try to find the
right person to represent mebecause I thought I've written
(18:49):
all these articles.
It should be so easy to getpublished.
It wasn't at all.
It was really only last yearthat things started coming
together in a very Substantiveway.
Ashley (18:59):
I think your journey sounds like it would be one that
a lot of people would go throughin the sense that you pick it
up, you put it down, you do do abunch of copies that it isn't.
I sit down and write a book.
I'm done.
Sheila (19:14):
It's a absolutely true.
I think that it's very easy tothink.
Especially as you get older too,because you look at other people
around you who, this person'syounger than me and they've
published four books and thisother person I went to school
with and they've published, fiveand you just start comparing
yourself.
When you get into that game,it's a waste of time, really?
(19:36):
Because it's time that you couldbe spending writing or thinking
about how to make your bookwork.
as I said before, it's really,there's a lot of, sort of
swallowing your ego and thinkingit's okay for me to be new at
this.
It's okay to stumble.
It's okay.
For me to not know exactly howto do this thing, even though
I've done something similarbefore and just trying to
(19:59):
approach every project with thatsort of bright-eyed.
New to the world.
Energy is something that I amconstantly reminding myself.
You know, because if you'regoing the sort of hard end, oh,
I know exactly what to do it.
It's just not the best way to goabout it.
Ashley (20:15):
It's really hard, especially as we get older to
learn new things or to say thisis new to me.
And it's hard to do.
I think, as we get older, we'rejust used to doing the same
things all the time and we knowhow to do them.
So we're gonna get better wherewhen we are brave and we step
out of our comfort zone and go,I'm gonna take my ego out of
this.
I'm gonna really try somethingnew.
(20:35):
It is really amazing what thatjourney can look like.
I think it's really awesome thatyou stuck with it and look at
this amazing thing that you'vecreated.
Sheila (20:45):
Thank you.
It required a lot ofperseverance and you know, that
that whole spirit is alsosomething that with Anita, who I
don't define her age in thebook.
I say that she's in herthirties.
But I felt it important to, youknow, when I was certainly, when
I was in my twenties, there wasthis inundation of the idea that
you should have everythingfigured out by 30, you should be
(21:08):
married.
You should be thinking aboutstarting a family.
You should have a house like thecareer you want, like everything
you need to have all of yourducks in a row by this age.
I think that that's something,slowly, maybe that is being
chipped away at, but womenespecially are told you know,
get your act together.
Figure out your life by thisage.
So with Anita, I wanted her tobe ambiguously in her thirties
(21:32):
because I know for me, mythirties were where I really did
start.
Understanding who I was as aperson.
What made me happy?
What I wanted to do as a career,what I wanted my life to look
like.
I wanted to put an example intothe world of a woman who reaches
(21:53):
that point of life and is stilljust trying to figure out what
works
Ashley (21:58):
there should be more examples of that, because that
really is the case..
I think that it is okay to notknow what you wanna be when you
grow up.
My grandmother personally wentback to college in her forties
and had a total career shiftthat I think it's it's okay.
That even if we feel like we'vepicked something, that it
doesn't have to be the end, allbe all.
(22:18):
That life is really short and weonly have so much time.
So we may as well fill it, doingthings that we love.
It is a journey to try differentthings or try different
industries and figure out whatyou like and what you don't like
before actually finding thatpath.
But I think the idea of ithaving to be a set age, which I
find really was 30, was thatbig, scary number that it's
(22:40):
like, you can start a new careerat 40, you can start a new hobby
at 50 that there really isn'tthis, you know, it all has to be
wrapped in a bow at a certainpoint.
Sheila (22:50):
Absolutely.
One of the best pieces of advicethat I ever received, and it
wasn't even, it wasn't sort ofintended as advice.
But I was in high school and myart teacher, I can't remember
exactly what the conversationwas, but she made a comment that
said, yeah, I really, you know,that's what I wanna be when I
grow up.
(23:10):
She was in my eyes very much anadult..
She was an art teacher.
At a public high school.
Until she said that it hadn'toccurred to me that you could be
a quote unquote adult and stillhave things that you wanted to
do and be that weren't, in yourdescription at that point, I
also when I was working at ABCnews, one of my Wonderful
(23:34):
coworkers who became a greatfriend who was there with me,
was a woman named Susan who tookup journalism after her children
had graduated from high schooland left the home.
She started this whole secondcareer.
I was in my twenties.
She was in her fifties orsixties, I think.
She was just as ambitious andhungry as the rest of us.
(23:56):
And seeing that kind of drive insomeone who, traditionally would
be labeled as, okay, now you'regoing to retire.
You're going to do somethingelse.
That was really impactful on me.
This idea that you don't have tostick with the thing that you
started when you were 22 andentered the work world, you can
change your mind as many timesas you want,
Ashley (24:18):
which I do hope for anybody listening that if you're
struggling with this, to knowthat it's normal I don't know
about you at 22.
I was still like a dumb kid.
The life choices I made, even at22 to think about it now, it's
like, what was I thinking?
So to expect, to have to makeall of our important life
decisions in our twenties iskind of a terrifying thought.
Sheila (24:41):
Absolutely.
I say this all the time.
I'd love to go back to collegenow, now that I could be sort of
focused on learning and notfocused on how do I have friends
in this new situation where,there are no parents observing
me and partying and drinking andall of the things that so many
people do in college and schooland, actually learning anything
(25:04):
becomes secondary.
The idea that we should know,what moves us and what we're
passionate about by after, maybetwo decades in the world is
crazy.
I mean, more power to the peoplewho do know by that time.
Absolutely.
I certainly didn't
Ashley (25:21):
There definitely is people that know and they thrive
and that's fantastic for them byall means.
But I just, I definitely wasn'tone of.
Sheila (25:34):
There's a lot of emphasis to put on, prodigies
and all of these, 30, under 30or 20 under 20, like all these
sort of lists that I think justreinforce this idea that hurry
up, make your mark as early aspossible.
It can become sort of damagingand make you a little bit
depressed in a way, if youhaven't sort of hit these mile
(25:56):
markers by a certain age,
Ashley (25:57):
for sure.
I think another thing and notall companies, but a lot of
those 20, under 20 and 30, under30, a lot of those people are
paying to be on those lists,which I don't necessarily know
that a lot of people realizethat.
So it's like also realizing thatEvery industry has their good
and their bad selling parts.
(26:18):
You do have to really questionthe motives behind me on
messaging in some of theseinstances.
Now thinking about your book alittle bit more.
Yeah.
Is there anything else that youwould want people to know about
the book that we haven't touchedon?
Sheila (26:33):
You know, I dedicated it to Anitas everywhere in the
sense that this book is foranyone.
Who's kind of trying to findthemselves, but it's not just
for them.
I really think that this is anexploration of wellness and
social media, and it's a comingof age story.
It's also a fish out of waterstory.
(26:56):
I tried to take a verycontemporary approach to fiction
and to writing for an audiencethat, so often now, Myself
included.
I'm being pulled into my phone,into the unlimited amount of
streaming options that thereare, I wanted to write a book
that was as fun to read as, youknow, watching the latest,
(27:19):
whatever hit series on Netflixmight be.
So that said, I think that it'sreally for anyone who is
interested in pop culture and,and the way that we live now.
I
Ashley (27:31):
It is one of those really fun, easy to read books
where it's not gonna be like,oh, I don't wanna pick up this
book.
I wanna pick up my phone.
It really is.
worth putting your phone downand actually diving into it.
Sheila (27:45):
I'm very glad to hear you say that I've had multiple
people, friends and people Ihave worked with who have looked
at advanced copies and said thatthey read it in a single sitting
one of my friends said that shewas reading it in a cab in the
dark and using her phone as likea flashlight to light the page
as she was in the back of thecab.
As an author, there's just nogreater, compliment than knowing
(28:09):
that you're capturing someone'sattention in such a.
Deep way that they have theirphone in their hand and they're
not using it to look atInstagram or social media or
text or something.
They really just wanna know whathappens next, that badly.
Ashley (28:23):
These characters do feel like, they could be anybody.
They literally could be somebodyyou went to school with.
They could be somebody that yousee yourself in that they are
such a real characters that itdoes almost feel like you're
watching your favorite realityshow instead of necessarily just
reading a book.
Sheila (28:41):
It warms my heart to to hear that you think that the
demands on people's time nowwith the way that life is moving
and.
Work and family, and then all ofthe entertainment options out
there, it can be a reallyHerculean effort to get someone,
to choose a book over everythingelse.
And so I really wanted toacknowledge that and create and
(29:05):
write a book that was meant fortoday's world and really
encapsulates the way that wetalk and text..
Especially with Anita, so muchof the indecision that goes
into, how am I gonna word thistext?
How am I gonna word this email?
What is the right picture for meto post, to make people believe
something about me that isn'teven true?
I think it's something that allof us are going through on some
(29:27):
level.
Now this sort of battle betweenwho am I on social media and the
internet and who am I in reallife quote unquote, real life.
I mean, social media and theinternet is as real as anything
else now,
Ashley (29:39):
but there is a lot of pressure to put your best foot
forward.
I think the problem with.
Thinking that social media isreal nowadays can kind of set
you up for failure because itdoes create that environment of
comparison.
Oh, this person's house isalways clean when really they've
just smushed everything out ofthe picture to take the picture
(30:00):
of the clean corner or whateverit is, or.
If you're a parent taking apicture of your kid, odds are,
you're not taking a picture ofwhen they're refusing to listen
to you and having a blowout andmelt down somewhere, you're
taking a picture where you'vecoached them to do something
really cute, and then you'verecorded it.
And now it's a TikTok orwhatever the case may be that I
think a lot of it isn't reallife, but we have a pressure to
(30:23):
make it feel like it.
Sheila (30:25):
I know I have to remind myself every time I look at some
of these apps that.
Every post is an advertisementor promotion for something, even
the ones that are like a no makeselfie or a there was that trend
for a while of people takingselfies of themselves crying or
upset.
I just felt very like this isanything myself included.
(30:49):
Put online on these social mediaplatforms is an advertisement
for something.
So as long as you sort of knowthat, like, okay, this person
is, talking about their book orthis person wants you to know
about this great meal that theyjust had.
Whatever it is.
I think just sort of looking atsocial media with that sort of a
(31:11):
grain of salt that as you said,this is not real life.
This is someone's highlight realis super important.
And also very easy to forgetbecause a lot of times,
especially when I'm just lookingfor that visual candy and I find
myself tapping through storyafter story and.
Then have to sort of ask myself,what am I doing?
Like, why am I watching this?
(31:31):
I should do something else.
Ashley (31:33):
Or to realize that when you do wanna do other things, I
know I hate the app on my phonethat tells me how many hours
that I've been doing it becauseI'm like, I cannot believe I
wasted X amount of hoursscrolling.
When I wanna be reading or Iwanna be exercising or really, I
just don't want to waste thetime scrolling, but it's so easy
(31:54):
to get sucked into that.
So I think it's also importantto remember, have you been
looking at it for seven hoursthis week and is that why it's
controlling your mind to thinkthis is something you should be
doing?
And to just remember.
again, connecting with yourselfand disconnecting and doing
maybe a little bit more of thatdigital detox and saying, you
know, what do I actually want todo?
(32:15):
What is actually important to meversus what am I being sold?
Sheila (32:19):
Yeah, absolutely asking yourself that that question is
such a, important part of life.
And it's, it's something thatyou know, certainly I think that
all of us should, should doevery day, if not multiple times
a day.
Because otherwise it is reallyeasy to get sucked into this
kind of feedback loop of like,what are people around me doing?
What are celebrities that Idon't even know?
(32:40):
What are they doing?
How is what I'm doing, comparingto all of that.
It's a very defeatist way tolook at life because you're
right.
there's a multitude of thingsthat you can do wherever you
are.
Often at least for me, I'vefound that my greatest happiness
is when, for whatever reason, myphone is either dead or it has
(33:01):
to be turned off and I have noaccess to it.
for an extended amount of timeand I just get to be in the
moment.
Ashley (33:11):
I think it's just letting yourself off the hook.
If you know that that's yourhappiest time, then giving
yourself permission to take thattime, to disconnect from it.
Now, if anybody is looking foryou online where can they find
you?
Sheila (33:24):
So I am on social media at Sheila YM.
I also have a website, Sheilamarik.com that I need to update
but you can find me in both ofthose places and follow me for
everything that I've said aboutsocial media.
I do find enjoyable moments andyou know, it's a reality of life
(33:46):
now.
That is a way that a lot of usinteract with the world and keep
up with friends and communicatewith people who like our work.
So I'm always happy to receivemessages and hear from people
who are following me.
I love for anyone to message meat Sheila YM.
Ashley (34:03):
Well, thank you so much for having this conversation
with me today.
Sheila (34:07):
Thank you so much, Ashley.
It's been a pleasure to talkwith you.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of The
Filled Up Cup podcast.
Don't forget to hit subscribeand leave a review.
If you like what you hear.
You can also connect withus@filledupcup.com.
(34:27):
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next
episode.
Welcome to the Filled Up Cuppodcast.
We are a different kind ofself-care resource.
One that has nothing to do withbubble baths and face masks, and
everything to do withrediscovering yourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences, and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most
(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.
Ashley (00:32):
I am so excited today.
I have Sheila Yasmin Marikerjoining me.
She is the author of the goddesseffect, which comes out this
October.
She's also a contributor for theNew York times and the new
Yorker magazine.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Sheila (00:48):
Thank you for having me, Ashley, I'm really excited to be
on.
Ashley (00:52):
I love that your book is a satire look of the wellness
industry.
I find that, especially in 2022,that self-care has almost become
like this annoying buzzword andit kind of has a lot of toxic
positivity attached to it.
Can you tell me why you decidedto write this book as a satire
(01:13):
about the wellness industry?
Sheila (01:16):
It actually started out as a book about a very diverse
group of people who lived in ahouse.
That house is the gig where mymain character, Anita ends up
taking up a room after sheleaves New York for LA.
I'm thinking back to when I wasin the first stages of drafting
and I was going to a westHollywood dance cardio class in
(01:40):
Los Angeles where I had recentlymoved and it ended up taking up
this pretty big space in my lifemore than I anticipated when I
first joined.
that workout in addition to alot of other workouts Inspired
what became the goddess effect.
I thought it could be a cool wayfor my main character who was
kind of finding her feed anddidn't really know what it was
(02:03):
that she wanted to do to meetsomeone.
She would sort of look at as arole model and to be around
women who were a little bit moreestablished than her and seemed
to have their acts together morethan she did.
It went from there to, as yousaid, the toxic positivity that
is reinforced by a lot of thewellness industry has only kind
(02:24):
of escalated up since I startedwriting this book back in 2015.
It just felt like there aretimes where the wellness
industry takes itself.
So seriously that.
It sort of begs to be parodied.
And as a woman just living inthe world right now, you really
can't help, but be inundatedwith advertisements and
companies and self called guruswho are trying to tell you to
(02:49):
buy their product.
And maybe this will make youfeel better.
I think there's certainlysomething inherently kind.
of wrong in that you have tospend money to help them build
their business.
And somehow in that process,maybe you'll feel better.
Maybe you won't, maybe you'lljust get hooked to this thing
that ends up ruling your lifemore than you thought it would.
Ashley (03:07):
That is so true.
We're constantly being told thatwe need to change and that this,
magic potion or this,$15 classworkout or all of these things
are gonna make us feel betterabout ourselves.
The idea for a lot of cases, wedon't need to change or do
anything different.
We really just have to lookwithin ourselves to have all of
(03:28):
the answers as like simple andcliche, as that sounds that it
is really funny how much womenespecially are inundated.
Things to, stop us from aging orto change our hair or to lighten
our darken, our skin or all ofthese different things that
it's, you really do almost haveto stop and listen to the
messaging and wonder, does thisbenefit me or does this benefit
(03:49):
them?
Sheila (03:51):
Absolutely.
And what you said about lookingwithin yourself to find that
answer?
Not to sound too.
Woo woo.
But that really is kind of theonly way, because if you compare
yourself to other people orother things outside of
yourself, you really know, neverknow what's going on in, in
anyone else's head.
It's very difficult to.
(04:12):
Find fulfillment from anythingon the outside.
That doesn't mean that we shouldall become monks and just
meditate every day.
but yes increasingly I'm comingto the same conclusion that
validation and that sense ofself-worth is just not something
that you can buy it doesn't comein a package deal for sure.
Ashley (04:32):
Now thinking about the wellness industry, I'm sure that
you had to kind of do differentthings to maybe dip your toe in
to being able to write about it.
What's one positive place orexperience that you've had with
a wellness brand or service.
And what's a negative one thatyou've had.
Sheila (04:50):
That's a great question.
You know, I have to say and whenI think about wellness brands,
my initial thought goes toboutique fitness classes just
because I've tried so many andthey've been part of my life for
a very long time now I will saythat every class and kind of
modality that I've done has donesomething positive for me in the
sense that it has made me sortof prioritize movement or at
(05:15):
least work it into my day.
For example, when I was livingin New York in my twenties and
early thirties, I started goingto Barry's bootcamp, pretty
religiously.
It was getting me out of bed at,you know, six or six 30 in the
morning.
I'd get to the studio by sevenand I'd have an hour to.
Whatever the workout was justkind of focus on moving and
(05:36):
focus on that being my physicalmeditation before diving into
the Workday and going to theoffice.
It was a great way to get into aroutine of, okay, I'm gonna do
something positive for myselfbefore the whole world comes at
me in terms of a negative.
Ooh, it's tough.
I mean, I've tried so manysupplements and kind of, you
(06:00):
know, diet in a box typeprograms that kind of promised a
rejuvenation in me that didn'treally pan out, turned out to a
diarrhea.
Yeah, or just like, okay, you dothis diet for a few days, and
then you resume your normal lifeand you're back to where you
started from after not too long.
(06:22):
But yeah, I think a lot of thatis the sort of silver bullet.
Fallacy of the wellness industrywhere it's like buy this thing
and you'll be better.
Sometimes that works, but a lotof times it just doesn't.
And then you feel like youwasted money and you're suddenly
on a subscription plan, you'respending a hundred dollars a
month for supplements that youdon't even know are working.
Ashley (06:44):
That gets tied into so much shame, it's the shame of
why didn't work for me, or thenalmost like the embarrassment of
having to cancel or having tohave that conversation with
brands.
I do love what you were sayingthough, about having that me
time, whether it is a fitnessclass or whatever that looks
like for the person listening,but I love the idea of taking
time out of your day, everysingle day.
(07:06):
Whether it is an hour fitnessclass, or whether it's like 10
minutes of just not scrollingand like being centered.
But I think that part is soimportant, cuz I think that now
more than ever, we've had to beso accessible to people that it
is really hard to just turneverything off and just focus
(07:26):
for yourself.
Sheila (07:28):
Yeah, it is really hard to turn everything off.
I do remember when I was goingto Barry's bootcamp, I was
working at a news network andreturning emails within a minute
or two of receiving them wasreally drilled into us by our
bosses, or at least was drilledinto me by mine.
I would often be on thetreadmill with my Blackberry or
(07:49):
iPhone or whatever, right therein the cup holder next to me.
Sort of like bracing on edgewaiting for that light or that
notification to come on.
It took a very long time andmany sort of changes in jobs and
where I lived to sort of.
Say okay.
The phone's gonna go over there.
And even if I'm doing some,Peloton or some kind of
(08:09):
connected fitness thing, likeyou're not gonna look at your
text messages.
You're not gonna look atInstagram email.
None of it.
This is just for you to get lostin the class and your own
thoughts.
And you're not responding toanyone for the next, however
long the workout is
Ashley (08:27):
It is funny because it is really hard to not.
When you see the notificationcome up to not look at it I
think collectively that shiftdoes seem to be changing a
little bit now where if it doestake an hour to respond like
that's okay, you don't have tobe everything to everybody.
again, it's so much easier saidthan done because I don't know
about you, but like every singletime the notifications, I need
(08:49):
to not necessarily read themall, but I need them to
disappear.
Otherwise I won't be able to saylike active in the moment and
I'll constantly be looking atsomething else.
Is important for everybody tokind of work towards the fact
that you don't have to beeverything to everybody in the
moment.
And it's okay to take that time
Sheila (09:07):
absolutely.
And that's actually an evolutionthat Anita in the goddess effect
really goes through where she'ssort of when the book starts
out, you see her sort offrantically emailing this head
of HR at Gonzo, the networkwhere she wants to get hired.
She's just.
Constantly refreshing her email,wondering why hasn't this person
gotten back to me?
What on earth is going on?
(09:28):
This is completely unacceptablebehavior.
When people text her, they DMher.
She sort of feels like, okay,immediately, I need to get back
to this.
I need to, to sort of respondand feel seen in that way.
The journey that she goesthrough of sort of loosening her
grip, physically andfiguratively on her phone and on
(09:48):
responding to the externalworld's demands is definitely
something that I myself in acontinual battle with.
But I'd like to think that I'm alittle bit better about it now
than I was you know, 10 yearsago.
Ashley (10:02):
For Anita.
Do you think that it will besort of a one book journey, or
do you think that you'll writemore books about it?
Sheila (10:09):
That's a great question.
You know, I left it open towardsthe end.
and certainly without givinganything away, there's certainly
a future that Anita could havein another novel at the moment
I'm not.
Writing anything related to heror to the characters from the
goddess effect.
(10:29):
I feel like I, really like theway that they all sort of held
together there, but, certainlyif people wanted to see more, I
would be absolutely open to thepossibility of exploring what
happens after this book ends.
Ashley (10:45):
I love that your book really is so funny.
And so.
Relevant to right now.
Now if you know, Hollywood cameknocking and they decided to
make it into a movie, what wouldbe your dream cast for your
characters?
Sheila (11:00):
I would absolutely love for, this to be made into a film
or a series or have that kind ofscreen adaptation.
Because there are some producerswho have expressed interest and
who are, looking it over now.
I'm hesitant to attach any namesto it, just because I want to.
If anyone is interested, Icertainly want to hear them out.
(11:22):
I do have some names in my head,but for Anita in particular, I
think it would be a greatopportunity to see a south Asian
actress or a south AsianAmerican actress who is maybe
not.
Incredibly well known, embracethat role.
I think there's a lot ofopportunity and potential there,
and I'd love to see a face thatmaybe audiences aren't super
(11:43):
familiar with and get to knowher through the goddess effect.
Ashley (11:46):
That's another change that I'm hoping we start to see
going forward is that there arenot just white people being cast
in things that we really areseeing diverse characters and
real people in more productionsgoing forward.
Sheila (12:01):
Absolutely.
I made every effort to be asinclusive as possible.
When thinking about thesecharacters, while also
acknowledging that there arecharacters in there who they
could in theory, be played by anumber of different actors or
actresses what's more specificabout them is their personality
(12:22):
and the things that they do.
And the way that they sort ofmove the story along.
I think for a very long time,it's been that the industry has
thought that only.
White actors can play a certaintype of role when in reality,
there is a lot of differentoptions and there are certain
characters that do have aspecific background, but there
are others where, let's make thefilm version of this.
(12:44):
Look as much like LA now aspossible.
Los Angeles being a superdiverse city.
I feel like we should see allsorts of different people in
this.
Ashley (12:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
People wanna be able to like seethemselves or aspire to be able
to do what the people thatthey're watching on TV are
doing.
And if we continue to cast theexact same people and
everything, then we're reallymissing out on that potential.
Sheila (13:12):
Absolutely.
I completely agree.
I do think that there arecertain stories about particular
communities, like in the goddesseffect, we have a big Indian
wedding and of a lot ofcharacters in those chapters are
Indian and I'm Indian American.
I do have a lot of.
Friends who are also IndianAmerican have a similar
upbringing.
(13:33):
But that said, I think that whenyou tell stories about certain
minority groups, there couldalso be a lot of universality
there.
You know, we saw with crazy richAsians, what huge success that
was, and you didn't have to beAsian to like that movie as the
box office numbers.
Ashley (13:49):
It's a hilarious, fantastic movie.
Sheila (13:52):
Of course, and as the sensation that the book and the
ones that preceded it were Ithink that when, you delve into
a specific community and reallyhighlight what it is about them,
like what's going on with Anitaand her mother.
Yes.
They're both Indian, but that'sa struggle that anyone from.
Any background can sort ofidentify with and apply to
(14:15):
themselves.
This idea of I'm not good enoughas a child.
And my parents don't like me orI'm trying to make them happy,
but also trying to be myself.
That's really, it's a universalstory that I hope a lot of
people can relate to.
Ashley (14:28):
I think crazy rich Asians.
was a fantastic Movie in thesense that I think Hollywood in
general had said, you know, youcouldn't have an Asian cast or
this wouldn't sell or even withthe Marvel movies and black
Panther.
And both of those films provedthat people love stories about
humans, and we really don't needto make it a race thing.
Sheila (14:51):
Absolutely that that's so well said, Ashley, that is
the whole crux of this.
There is a universality to thehuman story that is just going
to apply no matter where youcome from
Ashley (15:04):
thinking about crazy rich Asians and his Kevin's name
is thank you.
He wrote a thing for your book.
How did that end up coming tobe?
Sheila (15:15):
So I'm so lucky to know him.
And so thankful that he read andhad wonderful things to say
about the goddess effect.
We actually first met when I waswriting an article about him for
the economist and the magazinewanted me to go gallery hopping
with him in LA because he's abig art collector And also lives
(15:39):
in Los Angeles like me.
He was so down to earth and openand I was working on my, I don't
know, 18th umpteenth, whateverrevision of the goddess effect
at that point and telling himabout it and asking for advice.
He was really helpful.
We stayed in touch after that.
I ended up profiling him againfor the new Yorker when the
(16:02):
paperback edition of sex andvanity, his latest book came
out.
And then at that point, thegoddess effect was more sort of
fully coming together.
I asked if he would considerreading it when it was ready and
offering praise if he loved it.
And thankfully that all came topass.
Ashley (16:19):
That's awesome.
And so exciting.
I would imagine would be areally great thing to have
connected to your book, to helpwith the publicity.
Sheila (16:29):
For sure, for sure.
Because as we've been sayingcrazy, rich Asians continues to
be such a sensation to have anendorsement from someone like
Kevin Kwan, who really is justbesides being a wonderful human
is just an incredible author andcreator in Hollywood.
It means the world for a debutauthor like myself.
Ashley (16:49):
Absolutely.
Now you had touched on, therewas many revisions.
How did you find the writingprocess for a book versus.
Your articles, how did you findthat that was different?
Sheila (17:00):
It was so different, and it was really frustrating for a
while because I had sort of comeup with a sort of scheme for
getting an article done.
With articles, you have anaudience, an editor who is
hoping to receive your work by acertain deadline.
With a book, there was really,everything was open.
It could be done whenever Iwanted it to be done.
(17:21):
When I started this, I didn'thave a literary agent, so I
didn't really have an audienceof people who were waiting to
read it.
I hadn't really written muchfiction before.
I didn't know how to sort ofscale down all of the options in
the universe that thesecharacters could do and create a
narrative that held togetherthat kept you wanting to turn
(17:42):
the page.
So I started it in 2015 and Igot a few thousand words in and
then I just didn't know what todo next.
For two years I basically didn'twork on it at all in the back of
my mind, I was like, okay, Ineed to do this.
I wanna make progress on this.
I bought some books.
That I thought might help mefigure out how to crack writing
fiction.
(18:02):
It was really when I wasprofiling someone for the new
Yorker and they told me it'salways been my dream to be,
profiled in the new Yorker.
that was.
Sort of a light bulb moment forme thinking my dream is to
publish a novel and I'm notdoing anything about that.
So it took about half of thefollowing year.
This was 2018 for me to finishthe first draft.
(18:26):
And then after that it was aseries of rewritings.
I found an agent.
Thought it was going to workout.
Didn't really work out.
I had to find another one.
I had to sort of swallow my egoand say, I really need to like
cast as wide of a net aspossible and try to find the
right person to represent mebecause I thought I've written
(18:49):
all these articles.
It should be so easy to getpublished.
It wasn't at all.
It was really only last yearthat things started coming
together in a very Substantiveway.
Ashley (18:59):
I think your journey sounds like it would be one that
a lot of people would go throughin the sense that you pick it
up, you put it down, you do do abunch of copies that it isn't.
I sit down and write a book.
I'm done.
Sheila (19:14):
It's a absolutely true.
I think that it's very easy tothink.
Especially as you get older too,because you look at other people
around you who, this person'syounger than me and they've
published four books and thisother person I went to school
with and they've published, fiveand you just start comparing
yourself.
When you get into that game,it's a waste of time, really?
(19:36):
Because it's time that you couldbe spending writing or thinking
about how to make your bookwork.
as I said before, it's really,there's a lot of, sort of
swallowing your ego and thinkingit's okay for me to be new at
this.
It's okay to stumble.
It's okay.
For me to not know exactly howto do this thing, even though
I've done something similarbefore and just trying to
(19:59):
approach every project with thatsort of bright-eyed.
New to the world.
Energy is something that I amconstantly reminding myself.
You know, because if you'regoing the sort of hard end, oh,
I know exactly what to do it.
It's just not the best way to goabout it.
Ashley (20:15):
It's really hard, especially as we get older to
learn new things or to say thisis new to me.
And it's hard to do.
I think, as we get older, we'rejust used to doing the same
things all the time and we knowhow to do them.
So we're gonna get better wherewhen we are brave and we step
out of our comfort zone and go,I'm gonna take my ego out of
this.
I'm gonna really try somethingnew.
(20:35):
It is really amazing what thatjourney can look like.
I think it's really awesome thatyou stuck with it and look at
this amazing thing that you'vecreated.
Sheila (20:45):
Thank you.
It required a lot ofperseverance and you know, that
that whole spirit is alsosomething that with Anita, who I
don't define her age in thebook.
I say that she's in herthirties.
But I felt it important to, youknow, when I was certainly, when
I was in my twenties, there wasthis inundation of the idea that
you should have everythingfigured out by 30, you should be
(21:08):
married.
You should be thinking aboutstarting a family.
You should have a house like thecareer you want, like everything
you need to have all of yourducks in a row by this age.
I think that that's something,slowly, maybe that is being
chipped away at, but womenespecially are told you know,
get your act together.
Figure out your life by thisage.
So with Anita, I wanted her tobe ambiguously in her thirties
(21:32):
because I know for me, mythirties were where I really did
start.
Understanding who I was as aperson.
What made me happy?
What I wanted to do as a career,what I wanted my life to look
like.
I wanted to put an example intothe world of a woman who reaches
(21:53):
that point of life and is stilljust trying to figure out what
works
Ashley (21:58):
there should be more examples of that, because that
really is the case..
I think that it is okay to notknow what you wanna be when you
grow up.
My grandmother personally wentback to college in her forties
and had a total career shiftthat I think it's it's okay.
That even if we feel like we'vepicked something, that it
doesn't have to be the end, allbe all.
(22:18):
That life is really short and weonly have so much time.
So we may as well fill it, doingthings that we love.
It is a journey to try differentthings or try different
industries and figure out whatyou like and what you don't like
before actually finding thatpath.
But I think the idea of ithaving to be a set age, which I
find really was 30, was thatbig, scary number that it's
(22:40):
like, you can start a new careerat 40, you can start a new hobby
at 50 that there really isn'tthis, you know, it all has to be
wrapped in a bow at a certainpoint.
Sheila (22:50):
Absolutely.
One of the best pieces of advicethat I ever received, and it
wasn't even, it wasn't sort ofintended as advice.
But I was in high school and myart teacher, I can't remember
exactly what the conversationwas, but she made a comment that
said, yeah, I really, you know,that's what I wanna be when I
grow up.
(23:10):
She was in my eyes very much anadult..
She was an art teacher.
At a public high school.
Until she said that it hadn'toccurred to me that you could be
a quote unquote adult and stillhave things that you wanted to
do and be that weren't, in yourdescription at that point, I
also when I was working at ABCnews, one of my Wonderful
(23:34):
coworkers who became a greatfriend who was there with me,
was a woman named Susan who tookup journalism after her children
had graduated from high schooland left the home.
She started this whole secondcareer.
I was in my twenties.
She was in her fifties orsixties, I think.
She was just as ambitious andhungry as the rest of us.
(23:56):
And seeing that kind of drive insomeone who, traditionally would
be labeled as, okay, now you'regoing to retire.
You're going to do somethingelse.
That was really impactful on me.
This idea that you don't have tostick with the thing that you
started when you were 22 andentered the work world, you can
change your mind as many timesas you want,
Ashley (24:18):
which I do hope for anybody listening that if you're
struggling with this, to knowthat it's normal I don't know
about you at 22.
I was still like a dumb kid.
The life choices I made, even at22 to think about it now, it's
like, what was I thinking?
So to expect, to have to makeall of our important life
decisions in our twenties iskind of a terrifying thought.
Sheila (24:41):
Absolutely.
I say this all the time.
I'd love to go back to collegenow, now that I could be sort of
focused on learning and notfocused on how do I have friends
in this new situation where,there are no parents observing
me and partying and drinking andall of the things that so many
people do in college and schooland, actually learning anything
(25:04):
becomes secondary.
The idea that we should know,what moves us and what we're
passionate about by after, maybetwo decades in the world is
crazy.
I mean, more power to the peoplewho do know by that time.
Absolutely.
I certainly didn't
Ashley (25:21):
There definitely is people that know and they thrive
and that's fantastic for them byall means.
But I just, I definitely wasn'tone of.
Sheila (25:34):
There's a lot of emphasis to put on, prodigies
and all of these, 30, under 30or 20 under 20, like all these
sort of lists that I think justreinforce this idea that hurry
up, make your mark as early aspossible.
It can become sort of damagingand make you a little bit
depressed in a way, if youhaven't sort of hit these mile
(25:56):
markers by a certain age,
Ashley (25:57):
for sure.
I think another thing and notall companies, but a lot of
those 20, under 20 and 30, under30, a lot of those people are
paying to be on those lists,which I don't necessarily know
that a lot of people realizethat.
So it's like also realizing thatEvery industry has their good
and their bad selling parts.
(26:18):
You do have to really questionthe motives behind me on
messaging in some of theseinstances.
Now thinking about your book alittle bit more.
Yeah.
Is there anything else that youwould want people to know about
the book that we haven't touchedon?
Sheila (26:33):
You know, I dedicated it to Anitas everywhere in the
sense that this book is foranyone.
Who's kind of trying to findthemselves, but it's not just
for them.
I really think that this is anexploration of wellness and
social media, and it's a comingof age story.
It's also a fish out of waterstory.
(26:56):
I tried to take a verycontemporary approach to fiction
and to writing for an audiencethat, so often now, Myself
included.
I'm being pulled into my phone,into the unlimited amount of
streaming options that thereare, I wanted to write a book
that was as fun to read as, youknow, watching the latest,
(27:19):
whatever hit series on Netflixmight be.
So that said, I think that it'sreally for anyone who is
interested in pop culture and,and the way that we live now.
I
Ashley (27:31):
It is one of those really fun, easy to read books
where it's not gonna be like,oh, I don't wanna pick up this
book.
I wanna pick up my phone.
It really is.
worth putting your phone downand actually diving into it.
Sheila (27:45):
I'm very glad to hear you say that I've had multiple
people, friends and people Ihave worked with who have looked
at advanced copies and said thatthey read it in a single sitting
one of my friends said that shewas reading it in a cab in the
dark and using her phone as likea flashlight to light the page
as she was in the back of thecab.
As an author, there's just nogreater, compliment than knowing
(28:09):
that you're capturing someone'sattention in such a.
Deep way that they have theirphone in their hand and they're
not using it to look atInstagram or social media or
text or something.
They really just wanna know whathappens next, that badly.
Ashley (28:23):
These characters do feel like, they could be anybody.
They literally could be somebodyyou went to school with.
They could be somebody that yousee yourself in that they are
such a real characters that itdoes almost feel like you're
watching your favorite realityshow instead of necessarily just
reading a book.
Sheila (28:41):
It warms my heart to to hear that you think that the
demands on people's time nowwith the way that life is moving
and.
Work and family, and then all ofthe entertainment options out
there, it can be a reallyHerculean effort to get someone,
to choose a book over everythingelse.
And so I really wanted toacknowledge that and create and
(29:05):
write a book that was meant fortoday's world and really
encapsulates the way that wetalk and text..
Especially with Anita, so muchof the indecision that goes
into, how am I gonna word thistext?
How am I gonna word this email?
What is the right picture for meto post, to make people believe
something about me that isn'teven true?
I think it's something that allof us are going through on some
(29:27):
level.
Now this sort of battle betweenwho am I on social media and the
internet and who am I in reallife quote unquote, real life.
I mean, social media and theinternet is as real as anything
else now,
Ashley (29:39):
but there is a lot of pressure to put your best foot
forward.
I think the problem with.
Thinking that social media isreal nowadays can kind of set
you up for failure because itdoes create that environment of
comparison.
Oh, this person's house isalways clean when really they've
just smushed everything out ofthe picture to take the picture
(30:00):
of the clean corner or whateverit is, or.
If you're a parent taking apicture of your kid, odds are,
you're not taking a picture ofwhen they're refusing to listen
to you and having a blowout andmelt down somewhere, you're
taking a picture where you'vecoached them to do something
really cute, and then you'verecorded it.
And now it's a TikTok orwhatever the case may be that I
think a lot of it isn't reallife, but we have a pressure to
(30:23):
make it feel like it.
Sheila (30:25):
I know I have to remind myself every time I look at some
of these apps that.
Every post is an advertisementor promotion for something, even
the ones that are like a no makeselfie or a there was that trend
for a while of people takingselfies of themselves crying or
upset.
I just felt very like this isanything myself included.
(30:49):
Put online on these social mediaplatforms is an advertisement
for something.
So as long as you sort of knowthat, like, okay, this person
is, talking about their book orthis person wants you to know
about this great meal that theyjust had.
Whatever it is.
I think just sort of looking atsocial media with that sort of a
(31:11):
grain of salt that as you said,this is not real life.
This is someone's highlight realis super important.
And also very easy to forgetbecause a lot of times,
especially when I'm just lookingfor that visual candy and I find
myself tapping through storyafter story and.
Then have to sort of ask myself,what am I doing?
Like, why am I watching this?
(31:31):
I should do something else.
Ashley (31:33):
Or to realize that when you do wanna do other things, I
know I hate the app on my phonethat tells me how many hours
that I've been doing it becauseI'm like, I cannot believe I
wasted X amount of hoursscrolling.
When I wanna be reading or Iwanna be exercising or really, I
just don't want to waste thetime scrolling, but it's so easy
(31:54):
to get sucked into that.
So I think it's also importantto remember, have you been
looking at it for seven hoursthis week and is that why it's
controlling your mind to thinkthis is something you should be
doing?
And to just remember.
again, connecting with yourselfand disconnecting and doing
maybe a little bit more of thatdigital detox and saying, you
know, what do I actually want todo?
(32:15):
What is actually important to meversus what am I being sold?
Sheila (32:19):
Yeah, absolutely asking yourself that that question is
such a, important part of life.
And it's, it's something thatyou know, certainly I think that
all of us should, should doevery day, if not multiple times
a day.
Because otherwise it is reallyeasy to get sucked into this
kind of feedback loop of like,what are people around me doing?
What are celebrities that Idon't even know?
(32:40):
What are they doing?
How is what I'm doing, comparingto all of that.
It's a very defeatist way tolook at life because you're
right.
there's a multitude of thingsthat you can do wherever you
are.
Often at least for me, I'vefound that my greatest happiness
is when, for whatever reason, myphone is either dead or it has
(33:01):
to be turned off and I have noaccess to it.
for an extended amount of timeand I just get to be in the
moment.
Ashley (33:11):
I think it's just letting yourself off the hook.
If you know that that's yourhappiest time, then giving
yourself permission to take thattime, to disconnect from it.
Now, if anybody is looking foryou online where can they find
you?
Sheila (33:24):
So I am on social media at Sheila YM.
I also have a website, Sheilamarik.com that I need to update
but you can find me in both ofthose places and follow me for
everything that I've said aboutsocial media.
I do find enjoyable moments andyou know, it's a reality of life
(33:46):
now.
That is a way that a lot of usinteract with the world and keep
up with friends and communicatewith people who like our work.
So I'm always happy to receivemessages and hear from people
who are following me.
I love for anyone to message meat Sheila YM.
Ashley (34:03):
Well, thank you so much for having this conversation
with me today.
Sheila (34:07):
Thank you so much, Ashley.
It's been a pleasure to talkwith you.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of The
Filled Up Cup podcast.
Don't forget to hit subscribeand leave a review.
If you like what you hear.
You can also connect withus@filledupcup.com.
(34:27):
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next
episode.
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