October 26, 2022 • 39 mins
On this episode I am joined by Julie Lythcott-Haims. She is the New York Times bestselling author of How to Raise an Adult which gave rise to a popular TED Talk. Her second book is the critically-acclaimed and award-winning prose poetry memoir Real American, which illustrates her experience as a Black and biracial person in white spaces. Her third book, Your Turn: How to Be an Adult, has been called a “groundbreakingly frank” guide to adulthood. TED has turned her book into a TED Course that is available now.
Julie holds degrees from Stanford, Harvard Law, and California College of the Arts. She currently serves on the boards of Black Women’s Health Imperative, Narrative Magazine, and on the Board of Trustees at California College of the Arts. She serves on the advisory boards of LeanIn.Org, Sir Ken Robinson Foundation and Baldwin For the Arts. She lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with her partner of over thirty years, their itinerant young adults, and her mother.
On this episode we discuss adulting and why it is so challenging for some of us. We discuss helicopter parenting and how it has led young people to not feel as capable as they head into their adult years. We discuss her TED course and newest book, as well as her hotline that gives space to people to anonymously reach out to ask her questions about anything.
Julie Lythcott-Haims (julielythcotthaims.com)
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Julie Lythcott-Haims | Speaker | TED
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the filled up cuppodcast.
We are a different kind ofself-care resource one that has
nothing to do with bubble bathsand face masks and everything to
do with rediscovering yourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most
(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.
Ashley (00:32):
I am so excited today.
I have Julie Lythcott Haimsjoining me.
Julie is an educator publicspeaker activist, and New York
times bestselling author.
Her newest book is your turn.
How to be an adult, Julie, thankyou so much for joining me.
Julie (00:48):
I'm so delighted to be with you and your listeners.
Ashley,
Ashley (00:52):
can you tell us a little bit about your book?
Julie (00:55):
Absolutely.
I'm a 54 year old gen Xer whowas once a college Dean in the
era when millennials began tosay, I don't wanna adult, I
don't know how to adult adultingis scary.
And unlike many people in themedia, in society, my instinct
wasn't to say what's wrong withthose kids, but rather.
(01:16):
What's changed about.
Society about the way they wereraised such that our newest
generation of young adults,which they were at the time now
it's gen Zs.
Our newest generation feelstrepidation at entering a stage
of life that should feel amazingbecause of the independence and
freedom and the ability.
(01:37):
To really chart your own path.
So this book is a response tosomething we've been hearing
really for more than 10 years.
And it's a compassionatebeckoning into this space of
yep.
I get it.
Your fear is valid.
The things you don't know, Iknow you wanna learn and you
can, and I'm rooting for you, Ibelieve in you.
Let me try to help youappreciate what's on the other
(01:59):
side of that fear, which is thatdelicious feeling of knowing,
Hey, this is my life.
I get to figure out what I wantit to be about.
Ashley (02:08):
I really appreciate that perspective because I think when
we do hear somebody say, oh, Idon't want to.
Or when we think about the nextgeneration, it's usually.
From a negative perspective thatthey're brats or that they're
lazy or all these differentthings that it's really, I think
so important and more of us needto go, no wait, why do they feel
that?
Why is that perspective comingup for them?
(02:29):
Instead of just assuming all ofthe negative things
Julie (02:34):
a hundred percent
Ashley (02:35):
Do you think that being an adult now compared to being
adult 20, 30 years ago, do youthink that that's actually
changed?
Julie (02:44):
Well, there's some things that have changed and some that
haven't my definition ofadulting or adulthood is simply
that it's the opposite ofchildhood.
By which I mean, in childhoodyou're more or less the
responsibility of someone elsethat is, if your parents
reasonably had their acttogether, they looked after you.
I realized not everybody hadthat, but in the main adulthood
(03:08):
is the opposite.
You're more or less responsiblefor yourself, which doesn't mean
you have to go it alone, but itdoes mean you wake up every day,
knowing it's on me to take careof my body, my bills, my
business, my belongings, all ofthat.
You can get help.
Yes.
You have people in your life.
Yes.
But we as adults know, I'maccountable to kind of get my
own self moving forward in thisday, this week, this life, what
(03:32):
has changed is that we've gotsome socioeconomic factors in
place in a lot of cities.
I'm speaking with you from theheart of Silicon valley, which
is a very unaffordable place tolive.
Many communities are like mine.
Meaning my own two kids who are20 and 22 right now could not
afford a one bedroom apartmentin the region in which they grew
(03:55):
up because salaries and wageshave not kept up with the cost
of living in some places.
So we have people who are sortof grandparent age right now,
looking at their 20 somethinggrandchildren saying, what's
wrong with you?
When I was in my twenties, I hada house.
Well, grandpa.
Things have changed and that'snot the fault of any millennial
or gen Z, or it is the fault ofus in the older generations who
(04:17):
failed to put limits andpolicies in place that might
have curbed this out of control,cost of living in certain areas.
So that's an example of how youmight not be able to move outta
your parents' house, even with acollege degree, why cuz where
you live is unaffordable for ayoung person.
However, being an adult isn'tabout where you live or with
(04:38):
whom it's about how do youbehave if you're living with
your folks at 25, are youbehaving like a 25 year old?
Are you taking care of business?
Are you pitching in and helpingout an equal adult in the space?
Or are you kind of reverting toyour 15 year old self kind of
expecting to be looked after asyou were in childhood?
(04:58):
So you can see that adulting isreally more than anything.
A mindset.
Ashley (05:04):
I definitely agree with that.
Even the social economic portionof it, like I'm in Vancouver.
Just renting it's I think$2,300for a one bedroom.
Yeah.
A mortgage.
You can't even find a propertyfor less than a million dollars.
I know my mom bought her firsthouse for 75,000 where now you
(05:24):
can barely find a car for thatamount.
The price of inflation andeverything like that really does
make a huge difference just inthe living piece.
But yes, if you were living withyour parents or your
grandparents, you definitelyshould be doing your own dishes,
doing your own laundry.
Almost like a roommate.
Julie (05:38):
Yeah, exactly.
Almost like you've got a room inan Airbnb and Vancouver by the
way is so similar.
I think in terms of thesemacroeconomic issues, similar to
Silicon valley.
So I think we're on the samepage.
I think it's not just doing yourown dishes and your own laundry.
Definitely do that.
It's also.
Being able to ask, Hey, how canI help here?
(06:00):
Right.
Maybe, you know, should I be theone to go get groceries this
week?
Can I do an errand for you?
Right.
Adults in a cooperative livingenvironment.
Don't just.
Live in parallel to one another.
We cooperate, we help each otherout and that's really to level
up as an adult, how can Iconduct myself in a way where I
get my own needs met, but I'malso super clear that the others
(06:22):
around me might have a need thatmaybe I can fill.
And then we get into thisbeautiful reciprocity, you know,
I helped you out.
You helped me out.
And that's when life starts tofeel really good.
Ashley (06:32):
Do you think that the rise in helicopter parenting or
more of those over parentingmethods have played a part in
people not wanting to adult orgo into that next phase of life?
Julie (06:44):
A hundred percent Ashley, I wrote your turn, how to be an
adult my newest book, really inresponse to the fact that
helicopter parents have in themain undermined.
The agency in their kids.
And that was a subject actuallyof my first book, which came out
seven years ago, which wascalled how to raise an adult
(07:04):
squarely for parents, trying tohelp them appreciate the harms
of doing too much and ofmicromanaging their kids' lives.
As we've seen helicopterparenting rise, the parents who
are so anxious and worried andoverprotective, so they never
let their kids do anythingthemselves or the Tigerish type.
That's very insistent on whattheir kids will study and become
(07:27):
and do for a living.
Or the concierge best friendtype that's like, let me just
make your life easier.
Let me track your deadlines.
Let me bring you anything.
If you forgot it.
Let me argue with the teacher.
These are three different waysof parenting, but they all come
under the helicopter umbrellabecause what that parent is
doing is acting like the kidslife is actually my life.
(07:48):
I'm gonna plan it.
I'm gonna help out at all times.
I'm going to watch.
For everything that is happeningand it feels lovingly intended
and it is lovingly intended, butyou get a short term gain when
you plan everything and handleeverything for your kid.
They get a better grade cuz youdid their homework or, they
didn't fall because you wereright there to catch them.
But long term pain, the kid intheir mind, in their body, in
(08:11):
their psyche, they haven't hadthe life experiences that would
have given them that sense ofagency.
I can, I am capable and it'spartner resilience.
I can cope when shit happens.
We only develop resilience byhaving to deal with some shit
and discovering we're stillhere.
And we can lick our wounds andexamine what happened and think,
(08:33):
my gosh, what would I dodifferently next time?
Or how can I avoid that nexttime?
Or just next time I will bestronger because of what I just
went through.
So helicopter parents havedefinitely undermined agency and
resilience, and we shouldn't besurprised therefore, that we
have a large number of youngadults who are like, instead of
I can, they're like, I'm notsure I can, instead of feeling
(08:54):
resilient, like I can cope.
They're like, I can't cope.
I'm not saying helicopterparenting is one on one
correlated with the struggles.
We see so many young adultshaving, it's not the only thing
but it is a big factor.
And this is the beautiful irony.
Ashley kids who were raised.
Let's say by working classparents who didn't have the time
(09:16):
to attend to their every momentand rescue them when they forgot
things.
And so on argue with theteachers they're just busy, you
know, holding down enough jobsto pay the rent in the working
class.
Those kids often emerge intoadulthood stronger, more,
self-reliant more confident thatthey can figure out a solution,
(09:36):
more confident that they cantake care of business because
childhood was a little harder.
They actually have an extra setof tools in their toolkit in
adulthood.
I'm not trying to romanticizepoverty or struggle, but I'm
simply here to say, That whichdoesn't kill you does make you
stronger.
(09:56):
A lot of young adults who arestruggling in their young
adulthood are privileged.
They've been handed too much.
They've been given too much.
So they just don't know how todo for themselves.
I wrote your turn in response tothat, but it's a book that
really does speak very broadlyto all young adults, regardless
of how they were raised.
Ashley (10:15):
That's such a good point too, cuz we really do need to
make mistakes or screw up orhave that confidence building
skills of, I can even simply goto a restaurant and order my own
food because I think evensometimes like that, it's gotten
to the point where having tomake it a telephone conversation
in some cases is so anxietyridden to some youth that I
(10:37):
think the more we move out oftheir way to let them be able to
do it while they're young is sobeneficial because once you're
20 and trying to learn all theseskills, then it's more guilt and
shame and you feel more dumb orwhatever the case may be.
I just feel like it must be somuch harder at 20 trying to
learn skills that essentiallyprobably should have been
(10:57):
incorporated at 10, 11, 12.
Julie (11:00):
My gosh, Ashley, you're sort of officially hitting the
nail on the head with my book.
I really appreciate yourperspective.
I think you're a good dealyounger than me.
I don't know if that's somethingyou share, but if you're
willing, I'd love to know.
Ashley (11:12):
I'm 37.
So I was born in 1985.
Julie (11:14):
Okay.
Got you.
You know, Ashley, I got a call,actually.
I have this hotline I blogweekly at a place called Julie's
pod, but I know not everyone cancomment on social media
publicly.
So I have a hotline people cancall if they wanna share their
thoughts or ask me a question.
It's 1 8, 7, 7.
Hi, Julie.
I'm just trying to hold spacefor people who need to open up.
And one of my callers recentlywas a 23 year old.
(11:36):
Who basically was asking do Istill need to be asking my
parents permission for things orare there some things I don't
need permission for given thatI'm 23 and my jaw just dropped,
you know, she said a whole lotmore than we have the time to
relay now, but.
23.
I was like, yep.
You have the entire right to betotally in charge of your own
life.
(11:56):
Nobody has the right to demandthat they give you their
permission.
Before you go hang out with yourfriends or have a boyfriend, or
what have you.
This was a young person who wasraised by, as she said, very
strict parents, particularly amother who.
She always had to make the case.
Can I do this?
Can I do that?
And you could just hear herbewilderment dismay.
(12:20):
I know that one day that's gonnaturn to anger right now.
She's still sorting out, youknow, do I have the right to
say, actually, mom, no, thankyou.
Or I love you and I'm going todo this.
So I was really rooting for herand giving her all kinds of
advice and furtherance of.
You can respect and love yourparents and still draw these
boundaries.
You know, I am an adult.
(12:41):
Now.
There is no question about that.
The challenges this 23 year oldis still living with her parents
because she's in school tobecome a teacher.
I let her know that when thetime comes and she's got that
first job, she needs to look fora place.
Where she can afford the rent soshe can move out, right.
Get a job where you can live ina place and be in charge of your
(13:01):
rent and your other bills sothat you have the financial
autonomy so that your parentscan't use that to really hold it
over you.
Ashley (13:11):
I have a 15 year old and parenting is such a short term.
Thing where you really do feellike obviously the days are long
and the years are short, but I'min the window now where it's
like, I don't necessarily wantmy 46 year old daughter living
with me.
I wanna be able to switch fromhaving to, you know, know
exactly what she's doing at alltimes know that, you know, she's
(13:34):
not gonna stick a toy up hernose or whatever the case may
be.
And that little kid phase whereI have to be on top of her to
now kind of back off and, andsee what.
Parenting choices.
I mean, that are, are gonna payoff.
Is she gonna be responsible withher homework?
Is she gonna take the initiativeto get her first job?
As a parent, it's amazing to beable to actually see your kids
(13:55):
grow into that functional personand to sort of see what that
next.
Phase looks like that.
I just couldn't imagine if shewas 25 and me calling her
employer to be like, oh, sorry,my daughter can't go to the
staff meeting.
I really need her home fordinner
Julie (14:11):
right.
Yeah.
Ashley, I love that you'relaying out this Plan that, you
know, you have to have in placeand furtherance of your
daughter's growth andindependence and wellness.
Let's not mince words when weundermine their agency and their
resilience in the ways I'vedescribed that lack of agency
and resilience is correlatedwith anxiety and depression.
(14:33):
So.
We've gotta know, it's not justabout, I need to teach them so
that they know how to cut foodand stack a dishwasher and do
laundry and pay their bills.
They need those skills.
Yes.
And having those skills givesthem this healthy sense of self
and it will be likely that theywon't have.
To deal with anxiety anddepression.
So this is important for allkinds of reasons.
(14:55):
Let me suggest three things thatI want parents listening to know
that they can do should do, mustdo in this sort of long term
plan to have confidence thatyou're gonna be able to launch
this young adult out into theworld where both of you have
tremendous confidence that theycan thrive.
These are the things we have tobe thinking of.
Number one.
(15:16):
The surveillance, you know,through the apps, the webcams,
however appropriate that feelsto you now at whatever age and
stage your kid is, remember thatyou were not surveilled as a 20
year old technology wasn'tavailable and you survived and
your parents did just fine.
Let's not subject our youngadults to surveillance.
(15:36):
This is damaging thempsychologically.
I am certain, I'm not apsychologist, but I am certain
that a set of behaviors ofsurveilling people constantly in
life, which was previously onlysomething that incarcerated
people and people in psychiatricfacilities were subjected to 24
7 surveillance doing thisnormally as a normal part of
childhood.
(15:57):
Is harming our kids.
And so you have to have a planfor, how am I gonna pull back?
How am I gonna need to know lessfrequently where they are, what
they're up to.
Right.
Cause we need to know they canmake good choices when we're not
watching.
And constantly surveilling themis sending the opposite message.
The second thing is we'resupposed to teach them skills.
Everything we know we'resupposed to teach them, not do
(16:17):
it all for them forever, butrather do it until they're able
to learn, teach it to them, thenwatch them do it where we're
still there for the, just incase moment.
So they don't set the house onfire.
The first time they're using thestove and maybe even the third
time they're using the stove,but maybe the fourth time they
can now use the stove and youdon't have to be there.
And if they get an ouch, Hey,that's a life lesson.
(16:40):
Okay, that teaches them.
How stand a little bit fartheraway next time, or grab the pot
holder first.
Ashley (16:45):
Exactly.
Julie (16:45):
Four step method for teaching any kid, any skill
first, you do it for them.
Then you do it with them.
Then you turn around and watchthem do it.
And finally they can do itindependently.
The final piece of advice iswhen they have a routine run of
the mill problem, situation,snafu and childhood, instead of
swooping in and solving.
What we're supposed to do isempathize and empower empathy
(17:07):
is, oh, no.
Are you okay?
That sounds frustrating.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
That happened.
Pause and empower.
How do you think you're gonnahandle it, honey?
You say it gently.
You say it with a smile on yourvoice, a smile on your face.
And that tells our kids, Heykid, I believe you can do it
instead of the swooping andsolve, which is saying you can't
(17:30):
handle it.
Don't worry.
I got you.
Which becomes terrifying for ayoung person.
Ashley (17:37):
All of those are really important and almost like
triggering in the sense thatwe're so programmed or it's so
encouraged, you know, those appsdownload this so that everybody
can know where everybody is it'sreally remembering to go back to
the fundamentals almost to thinkabout how our parents did it and
really.
Go back to that.
It wasn't broke.
So why did we try to overcorrect and fix so much?
Julie (18:01):
I agree.
I love your use of the wordovercorrect, because for
example, the fear of strangers,which was really born when you
were young We had an overblownresponse to that fear.
The data show that the chance ofa child being abducted by a
stranger.
So small, they're much morelikely to be harmed by a
relative.
(18:22):
And yet they're with theirrelatives very frequently.
They're also in cars all thetime, and they're more likely to
die as a passenger in a car thanat the hands of a stranger.
And yet we've constructed awhole childhood around stranger
danger being this thing.
So kids aren't often in a parkplaying without adults right
there, or on a sidewalk, walkinghome from a store or at the
(18:45):
store by themselves.
We see, this lovely TV showrecently that's been
highlighting how in Japan,little kids go on their first
errand as a right of the passageand Americans are horrified.
I think Japan has it.
100%, right.
Kids are so much more capable.
They can be more capable than wegive them credit for.
Instead, our way of parenting isreally undermining the
(19:06):
development of skills andconfidence.
All of these things would serveour kids so well, but instead
we're sort of in thishypervigilant safety
perspective, that's just it'soverblow.
Ashley (19:19):
What if you are the youth in this situation where
you have come from helicopterparents, you really don't have
confidence in any of yourskills.
You have anxiety and depression.
How did they learn to adultsuccessfully?
Julie (19:32):
That's why I wrote your turn and in addition to this
book, I've got a course that'sabout to come out, put on by the
Ted people.
The people that do Ted talks arenow doing Ted courses and I've
developed.
A four week course, that's 49bucks that teaches this.
And short of any of that.
Anybody listening, who resonateswith what you just said?
(19:52):
What if you are the youth?
Here's what I wanna say.
Noticing that is step one.
You're calling it to yourconsciousness.
That is step one, say it aloudto someone you trust a good
friend, a family member whoisn't part of the problem, a
mentor.
That's step two and then you'rekind of, you've got 51% of the
problem handled.
(20:13):
In other words, justacknowledging it goes a long
way.
And then it's about, well, whatdo I do?
It may need be that you needtherapy in order to understand
how to draw boundaries with yourparents.
It may be that you need familytherapy.
That's what I've been involvedin.
Look, I'm an expert here talkingto you.
I've told you I got two kids.
They're 22 and 20.
I over parented mine, eventhough I studied this stuff and
(20:36):
I knew that it was problematic.
I didn't realize that what I wasdoing was part of the problem.
So I'm here as an expert, as amom with humility now, and
curiosity in family therapysaying.
Oh, gosh, what do we need to doto repattern our family dynamic
in support of this kid, thrivinginstead of kind of being in the
(20:57):
way of his growth.
So family therapy may be anoption.
If that's something you canafford individual therapy, as
I've mentioned, and at somepoint it's, regardless of
whether you have therapy, it'sbeing able to sit down with your
parents and say, Hey, I know youlove me.
If you can say that a lot ofpeople use that language.
Some people don't.
I know you've tried to instillgood values in me.
I respect you, whatever form ofpraise you can offer your
(21:20):
parents.
You start with that.
And then you say it's time thatI learn to do more for myself.
I'd really like to learn a setof things.
And maybe there are three thingsyou can teach me now.
And then in a few weeks you canteach me another three things,
but we've gotta transition fromyou're handling everything to me
being capable.
I want that.
I need that.
And I'm asking you for it.
(21:41):
I.
Ashley (21:42):
I really do think more often than not that helicopter
parents really don't necessarilyeven acknowledge or realize the
things that they're doing in themoment, because it can seem
like.
Such normal behavior and you getin the patterns and you get in
the habits.
So it's kind of just going, oh,okay.
How can we adjust it?
(22:03):
And knowing that it's not anovernight change and it's okay
if you are the parent thatmessed up and you can kind of
just recalibrate now and move onfrom it.
That for the most part, nosituation is permanent.
Julie (22:18):
Absolutely.
And look parent to parent, mom,to mom.
I know I adore my kids.
I know you adore yours.
I know everyone listening.
Who's a parent loves their kid.
None of us is trying to harm ourkids.
We love these little ones andbig ones.
There are offspring.
We are biologically wired tolove them.
And we do.
(22:38):
It's just that we've gottenmisguided about what love looks
like, frankly, and I'mencouraging parents to
appreciate that.
The most loving thing you cando.
Is let them walk this life pathon their own.
You're there, you're off to theside, you're watching for the,
just in case moments, but you'renot so worried that they're
(22:59):
gonna stumble every single timethey take a step forward that
you're there preventing thestumble.
The stumbles are how we learnthe failures and setbacks.
You know, these are life'sgreatest teacher.
Don't deprive your kid of thevery experiences.
That'll teach them the lessonthat makes them more capable
next time, parent, not for thewin today, but for the strength
(23:21):
and confidence tomorrow.
Ashley (23:24):
Yeah.
I really, really, reallyresonate with that.
I think that's a reallybeautiful point.
Now for parents that are kind ofstruggling or youth that are
kind of struggling of notknowing when they should ask for
help.
When do you think that it isokay for parents to step in and
intervene and help their youngadults?
Julie (23:43):
Well, I think first of all, the greatest currency we
have with our kids as parents.
Is trust.
If we have a trustingrelationship where they know
they can talk to us, we know wecan talk to them trust plus
communication.
That's the sweet spot inparenting.
So we don't wanna ever doanything that undermines trust.
We wanna always try to be thepeople they can come to no
(24:05):
matter what.
So we have to demonstrate we'reworthy of that.
We have to be willing to listento our kids' feelings when a kid
is struggling.
When they're sad, when they'remad, when they're in pain, we
shouldn't say, oh, get over it.
We shouldn't say that doesn'tmatter.
We shouldn't say it's not as badas you think it is.
(24:28):
We should instead.
Empathize.
Oh my gosh.
I'm so sorry.
Are you okay?
Sit down.
You know, I'm here.
There's nothing you've done orthere's nothing that's happened
to you or there's no feeling youhave.
That's gonna chase me away.
I love you so much.
I'm just gonna sit with youhere.
Do you wanna talk, right?
Don't impose your own thoughts.
Active listen, create and holdspace for your kid to open up.
(24:52):
And then after the initial sortof handling or the initial
response to whatever the feelingis, is behind us, then what a
parent can very lovingly say.
You know, I have some thoughts.
Do you want thoughts or wouldyou rather just stay here in
this space of venting?
Both are valid.
Let me know.
You can hear in my voice thatI'm not coming in with.
(25:13):
I have to fix it.
I have to handle it.
This is terrible, but rather tobe this loving person, the kid
can always count on is not gonnahave an explosive emotional
reaction to what they're goingthrough.
This is actually pulling back alittle.
What's beautiful is it bringsthe kid forward.
It allows the kid to kind ofcome into that space and feel
safe instead of having to dealwith our emotions.
(25:35):
Be it sadness or anger, or whathave you.
So that's how we can show up inthe lives of our kids offering
advice and guidance if they wantit, but simply listening and
letting them vent if that's whatthey want.
The more we practice that andbelieve me, I am hard at work on
that with my 20 year olddaughter, cuz I am a fixer.
I love to fix it and handle it.
She's like, mom, stop, stop.
(25:57):
And I constantly have to try tosettle myself in a way that, so
that I don't don't do that.
Over time we prove That we arecapable of listening and aren't
fixers and that's when thenthey're more likely to say, Hey,
can I get some advice from you?
Cuz we haven't burdened themwith giving them advice when
they didn't want it.
Ashley (26:16):
Well, and that is so challenging at times, cuz I'm
the same thing of I've walkedthrough this path.
If I was in this situation, thisis what I would do instead of
just holding space for herexperience that it can be so
challenging to not be the fixerin there.
I think in some ways it's almostwith technology and our hustle
(26:37):
culture where it's like wereally do, or I really do
struggle sometimes to staypresent in that moment where I'm
not being pulled aside to 10different things or just being,
so I think that that is anotherpart that maybe.
We do need to remember with thehustle culture to really, if
your kids are coming to you todisconnect everything and to
(26:58):
really just be present and notworry about the 50 other things
that are potentially runningthrough your day.
Julie (27:05):
That's exactly right.
So this is.
How our own ability to selfregulate our own ability to be
in charge of what's happeningwithin our nervous system to
develop a mindfulness practice,to be able to engage our own
thoughts around what ourfeelings are, to understand
what's coming up for us tovalidate it, to sit with it.
(27:28):
Process it and let it go, allowsus then to show up as these
pillars of strength for ourkids.
But what can happen is when wethink our kid's life is ours,
like our kid is my littleproject.
I have to prove how great aparent I am and my kid's grades
or the evidence of that.
Whether my kid gets on the rightsoccer team is evidence of that.
Like my kid is me.
(27:48):
My kid is my worth.
Our emotional life is so tied upin their, every accomplishment
or their every stumble orfailure, which is not healthy
and means we can't be regulatedat all in response to what
happens with our kids, cuz it'slike our life is resting upon
what they do.
Boy, is that a tremendous amountof pressure to put on a kid and
(28:09):
it's not healthy for us either.
So our own wellness, getting ahandle on our own wellness.
One of the greatest things wecan do to support our children.
Ashley (28:21):
You really do need to have your own hobbies, have your
kid get their own hobbies thatthey're choosing and really
create your own life.
As hard as it is to not letparenthood absorb who you are as
a being, you really do need tomake sure that your title is mom
or dad, or whichever you go by.
Doesn't define a hundred percentof yourself.
Julie (28:41):
Exactly we have children.
They are ours to look aftergiven to us by God or the
universe, or however you believechildren get here.
I think it's a huge task to tryto look after young until they
can look after themselves.
We're supposed to provide themwith shelter and food and love
and whatever opportunities byway of education and enrichment
(29:04):
we can afford.
And we're supposed to then getout of their way so that they
can become this glorious beingthat they are unfettered by our
needs, our neurosis, ourexpectations.
Ashley (29:16):
Then God willing or whichever you believe in, then
you get grandchildren.
And it's like, my parents saidthat that was the best, if they
could have done it the otherway, because then it's like, you
get to see how your parentingpaid off via their parenting.
Then you get all the fun ofhaving that little person again,
without the responsibility ofhaving to be the one to make all
of the decisions.
Julie (29:35):
I.
100% hear that.
I have a very practicalapplication of that for our
actual kids.
About whom we're saying, couldwe have grandchildren because
it'd be easier.
We'd get all the benefitswithout any of the cost or the
pain.
I want people to imagine theirnieces and nephews or their best
friend's kid.
This is a kid you likely know.
(29:57):
Maybe you're really close tothem may be quite close.
Let's say you go over to theirhouse one Friday for dinner and
you're there in the lateafternoon.
And that kid, the child of yourbest friend or your sister or
brother comes home from schooland they bang the kitchen door
shut.
They throw their backpack to theground and they say, well, I
guess I'm failing science.
(30:18):
And they stomp off as auntie orthe uncle or the parent's best
friend.
You don't go.
What do you mean?
We failed science.
We worked so hard on that.
Do I need to call your teacher?
We just say, oh no, buddy.
Oh, that doesn't feel very good.
I'm so sorry.
Are you okay?
Come sit down.
So good to see you.
(30:38):
Did you want a glass of water?
Tell me what happened today.
That was good.
We're able to show up with thatkind of empathy and compassion
when it's not our actual kid.
When it's our kid, we are sostressed out that we are failing
science.
We've totally lost the abilityto support our kid in that
moment.
We're not thinking clearly,therefore we're not gonna help
(30:59):
them think clearly, but thatlittle detachment that comes
with simply being auntie oruncle or family friend means we
can show up more lovingly andmore empoweringly for that kid.
Ashley (31:12):
You can really feel the energy shift when you really
picture both of those scenarios.
It does just seem like thesecond one really would be that
most obvious choice that like,Hey buddy, what's going on?
How can we change your attitudefor the day?
Do you wanna get a snack?
Do you wanna decompress?
Instead of going into that, go,go, go problem solving mode.
Julie (31:35):
Or worse.
What happened?
How could this happen?
We've studied.
We right.
The, the Royal we that's whathelicopter parents use.
Right.
It's our test.
It's our science class.
It's our soccer team.
So therefore we are failing.
We need to call the teacher,like we need to talk to the
teacher.
So there's a trick there aswell, which is when you find
yourself saying we, when youreally mean my kid, try to
(31:58):
switch up those pronouns.
Say my son, my daughter, mychild, my kid.
Stay in your own lane, this istheir science class.
It's their recital.
It's not yours.
Right?
Stay in your lane.
Ashley (32:11):
Especially if you were thinking about like your own
career, you wouldn't say, oh, wehad to have that financial
report done, or we had to fileour taxes that it's like, you
wouldn't drag your kid intothat.
We, so I do think that's areally good point.
Don't drag yourself into their,
Julie (32:26):
I love it.
Ashley (32:29):
Now you had mentioned that you're doing a Ted course.
Are there any other courses orworkshops that you have coming
up that you would like us toknow about?
Julie (32:37):
That's so kind of you actually, the Ted course is
everything I've been working onit for six months.
They invited me to do a coursebased on this book.
I leap at the chance because abook is a long piece of content
And a different way of learningthan a set of videos, which this
course is.
So it's a four week course, andit just keeps repeating every
four weeks.
It's asynchronous.
So you watch a set of videos andthen there are reflection,
(32:59):
exercises, and resources you canclick through and find there is
one live component that you canchoose to join.
If you wanna be in communitywith others who are trying to.
Figure out how to thrive intheir adulthood.
I'm just super excited aboutthat.
That's the only course I'mteaching right now.
Ashley (33:16):
When that goes live, will that be linked back onto
your website or is there aspecific website or the Ted
site, I guess that people wouldfind that
Julie (33:23):
yeah.
I think Ted, this is a newendeavor for Ted and they're
launching six courses at once.
Mine is just one of them and Iknow it'll be on the ted.com
site and it'll also be veryprominently featured, probably
has a banner on my website,which is julielythcotthaims.com.
Ashley (33:40):
I love that Ted is branching out to courses because
I think we do have such a hungerfor education and the majority
of us will look to the internetor to our phones to solve those
problems.
So I do love the fact thatpeople can take this course and
go through the program with you.
Julie (33:57):
Me too.
I'm super excited about thisdifferent medium to deliver this
message.
Ashley (34:02):
Going back to your hotline.
Is it that people can ask anyquestion?
Is it that they cover certaintopics or if somebody was
wanting to call your hotline,what would that look like?
Julie (34:15):
It's anything Ashley it's a mechanism to create space for
people who have things to say orquestions to ask, but don't feel
comfortable on social.
I have a pretty active presenceon Instagram and Facebook and
Twitter.
and I'm comfortable putting myname out there attached to my
thoughts, but I realize noteveryone is.
So this is a kind of an oldschool way.
In fact, if we run video, you'dsee it's an old streamlined
(34:38):
phone that you would plug in.
My landline from when I was incollege, back in the 1980s,
bright red.
And so it goes to a voicemail,so they don't have to worry
about having to talk to aperson.
It just goes straight tovoicemail.
I listen.
And then most Mondays live onFacebook at noon Pacific.
I do what I call let's talk,which is I do a brief update on
(35:03):
behind the scenes, on my lifeand the reactions to last week's
blog post, and Julie's podfeaturing the calls that have
come into the hotline, mayberecommend a book or a movie, and
then they can ask me anything inthe comments.
So I do that as a way to makesure those folks who have
bravely picked up the phone andleft a message for a stranger
about whatever's on their mindthat they feel.
(35:25):
Hey, I'm heard too.
I also matter,
Ashley (35:29):
I love that you're creating that safe space for
people, cuz I think nowadayswith cancel culture or people
just being less vulnerablepublicly, that it would be
really hard sometimes to admitthat they don't know something
or that they do need help.
With something.
So I love the fact that there'ssort of this safe, anonymous
space where they can just reachout, get that assistance, get
(35:50):
that comfort, potentially getthat validation and just know
that they're important and havea response that feels genuine
instead of forced as it can bewith some of our friends and
family.
Julie (36:01):
Yep.
That's exactly what I'm tryingto do.
I believe in all of us, I'mrooting for all of us and I just
feel tremendous compassion.
For all of us, I'm an empath andmany of us are.
I don't have a Messiah complex.
Like I wanna save everybody, butI do care about everybody.
I'm just so clear that so manyof us particularly now are
(36:22):
lonely.
We're languishing because of thepandemic.
We haven't had the juice we getfrom social interactions.
We have an epidemic ofloneliness in many countries as
named by our leaders.
I'm just trying to do my part tosay, you matter to me what
you're going through matters.
I'm here I care.
I will listen.
Can't solve it.
Most likely I cannot solve it,but I know that just being
(36:47):
noticed.
Helps.
So many of us deal with whateverit is, even if just for a few
hours will feel better knowingthat somebody gave a damn
Ashley (36:57):
That piece really is missing so much.
So I really do think that yourhotline will make a significant
difference in a lot of people'slives.
So I really appreciate that youare helping people in that
capacity.
Julie (37:10):
I appreciate that I think of in a different life, maybe I
would've had a radio callingshow where you could just say
what was on your mind and I'dhold space and listen.
And people would listen in andknow that, Hey, other people are
struggling too.
I'm not the only one.
I think that's an importantpiece of this when we can dare
to be vulnerable dare to share.
Then those third parties who arewatching listening, we may never
(37:30):
know who they are, but becausewe dared to open up and there
was a platform for that someoneelse's life.
Is a little less lonely, alittle bit more easy.
Ashley (37:41):
I love that, Julie.
Thank you so much for joining mefor this conversation today.
Julie (37:45):
Oh, Ashley, it's been such a pleasure.
And may I just say to anyonelistening?
We appreciate you.
I know Ashley does.
I certainly do too.
If you felt anything in yourbody as Ashley and I spoke, you
know, a feeling a, sort of a,you knee jiggle, or you got
sweaty palms, or you, felt alittle anxious or you were like,
yes, yes, yes.
Like those are all clues fromyou to you.
(38:07):
That what we said is importantto you in some way, shape or
form.
I encourage you to take thatforward.
Be curious.
What was that about?
What does it mean?
What do you wanna do about.
Ashley (38:15):
We will have all of the ways to connect with Julie in
the show note.
So please take advantage of themand reach out if like she said,
if there was anything thattriggered you or that you felt
connected to.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of the
filled up cup podcast, don'tforget to hit subscribe and
(38:38):
leave a review.
If you like what you hear, youcan also connect with
us@filledupcup.com.
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next
episode.
Welcome to the filled up cuppodcast.
We are a different kind ofself-care resource one that has
nothing to do with bubble bathsand face masks and everything to
do with rediscovering yourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most
(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.
Ashley (00:32):
I am so excited today.
I have Julie Lythcott Haimsjoining me.
Julie is an educator publicspeaker activist, and New York
times bestselling author.
Her newest book is your turn.
How to be an adult, Julie, thankyou so much for joining me.
Julie (00:48):
I'm so delighted to be with you and your listeners.
Ashley,
Ashley (00:52):
can you tell us a little bit about your book?
Julie (00:55):
Absolutely.
I'm a 54 year old gen Xer whowas once a college Dean in the
era when millennials began tosay, I don't wanna adult, I
don't know how to adult adultingis scary.
And unlike many people in themedia, in society, my instinct
wasn't to say what's wrong withthose kids, but rather.
(01:16):
What's changed about.
Society about the way they wereraised such that our newest
generation of young adults,which they were at the time now
it's gen Zs.
Our newest generation feelstrepidation at entering a stage
of life that should feel amazingbecause of the independence and
freedom and the ability.
(01:37):
To really chart your own path.
So this book is a response tosomething we've been hearing
really for more than 10 years.
And it's a compassionatebeckoning into this space of
yep.
I get it.
Your fear is valid.
The things you don't know, Iknow you wanna learn and you
can, and I'm rooting for you, Ibelieve in you.
Let me try to help youappreciate what's on the other
(01:59):
side of that fear, which is thatdelicious feeling of knowing,
Hey, this is my life.
I get to figure out what I wantit to be about.
Ashley (02:08):
I really appreciate that perspective because I think when
we do hear somebody say, oh, Idon't want to.
Or when we think about the nextgeneration, it's usually.
From a negative perspective thatthey're brats or that they're
lazy or all these differentthings that it's really, I think
so important and more of us needto go, no wait, why do they feel
that?
Why is that perspective comingup for them?
(02:29):
Instead of just assuming all ofthe negative things
Julie (02:34):
a hundred percent
Ashley (02:35):
Do you think that being an adult now compared to being
adult 20, 30 years ago, do youthink that that's actually
changed?
Julie (02:44):
Well, there's some things that have changed and some that
haven't my definition ofadulting or adulthood is simply
that it's the opposite ofchildhood.
By which I mean, in childhoodyou're more or less the
responsibility of someone elsethat is, if your parents
reasonably had their acttogether, they looked after you.
I realized not everybody hadthat, but in the main adulthood
(03:08):
is the opposite.
You're more or less responsiblefor yourself, which doesn't mean
you have to go it alone, but itdoes mean you wake up every day,
knowing it's on me to take careof my body, my bills, my
business, my belongings, all ofthat.
You can get help.
Yes.
You have people in your life.
Yes.
But we as adults know, I'maccountable to kind of get my
own self moving forward in thisday, this week, this life, what
(03:32):
has changed is that we've gotsome socioeconomic factors in
place in a lot of cities.
I'm speaking with you from theheart of Silicon valley, which
is a very unaffordable place tolive.
Many communities are like mine.
Meaning my own two kids who are20 and 22 right now could not
afford a one bedroom apartmentin the region in which they grew
(03:55):
up because salaries and wageshave not kept up with the cost
of living in some places.
So we have people who are sortof grandparent age right now,
looking at their 20 somethinggrandchildren saying, what's
wrong with you?
When I was in my twenties, I hada house.
Well, grandpa.
Things have changed and that'snot the fault of any millennial
or gen Z, or it is the fault ofus in the older generations who
(04:17):
failed to put limits andpolicies in place that might
have curbed this out of control,cost of living in certain areas.
So that's an example of how youmight not be able to move outta
your parents' house, even with acollege degree, why cuz where
you live is unaffordable for ayoung person.
However, being an adult isn'tabout where you live or with
(04:38):
whom it's about how do youbehave if you're living with
your folks at 25, are youbehaving like a 25 year old?
Are you taking care of business?
Are you pitching in and helpingout an equal adult in the space?
Or are you kind of reverting toyour 15 year old self kind of
expecting to be looked after asyou were in childhood?
(04:58):
So you can see that adulting isreally more than anything.
A mindset.
Ashley (05:04):
I definitely agree with that.
Even the social economic portionof it, like I'm in Vancouver.
Just renting it's I think$2,300for a one bedroom.
Yeah.
A mortgage.
You can't even find a propertyfor less than a million dollars.
I know my mom bought her firsthouse for 75,000 where now you
(05:24):
can barely find a car for thatamount.
The price of inflation andeverything like that really does
make a huge difference just inthe living piece.
But yes, if you were living withyour parents or your
grandparents, you definitelyshould be doing your own dishes,
doing your own laundry.
Almost like a roommate.
Julie (05:38):
Yeah, exactly.
Almost like you've got a room inan Airbnb and Vancouver by the
way is so similar.
I think in terms of thesemacroeconomic issues, similar to
Silicon valley.
So I think we're on the samepage.
I think it's not just doing yourown dishes and your own laundry.
Definitely do that.
It's also.
Being able to ask, Hey, how canI help here?
(06:00):
Right.
Maybe, you know, should I be theone to go get groceries this
week?
Can I do an errand for you?
Right.
Adults in a cooperative livingenvironment.
Don't just.
Live in parallel to one another.
We cooperate, we help each otherout and that's really to level
up as an adult, how can Iconduct myself in a way where I
get my own needs met, but I'malso super clear that the others
(06:22):
around me might have a need thatmaybe I can fill.
And then we get into thisbeautiful reciprocity, you know,
I helped you out.
You helped me out.
And that's when life starts tofeel really good.
Ashley (06:32):
Do you think that the rise in helicopter parenting or
more of those over parentingmethods have played a part in
people not wanting to adult orgo into that next phase of life?
Julie (06:44):
A hundred percent Ashley, I wrote your turn, how to be an
adult my newest book, really inresponse to the fact that
helicopter parents have in themain undermined.
The agency in their kids.
And that was a subject actuallyof my first book, which came out
seven years ago, which wascalled how to raise an adult
(07:04):
squarely for parents, trying tohelp them appreciate the harms
of doing too much and ofmicromanaging their kids' lives.
As we've seen helicopterparenting rise, the parents who
are so anxious and worried andoverprotective, so they never
let their kids do anythingthemselves or the Tigerish type.
That's very insistent on whattheir kids will study and become
(07:27):
and do for a living.
Or the concierge best friendtype that's like, let me just
make your life easier.
Let me track your deadlines.
Let me bring you anything.
If you forgot it.
Let me argue with the teacher.
These are three different waysof parenting, but they all come
under the helicopter umbrellabecause what that parent is
doing is acting like the kidslife is actually my life.
(07:48):
I'm gonna plan it.
I'm gonna help out at all times.
I'm going to watch.
For everything that is happeningand it feels lovingly intended
and it is lovingly intended, butyou get a short term gain when
you plan everything and handleeverything for your kid.
They get a better grade cuz youdid their homework or, they
didn't fall because you wereright there to catch them.
But long term pain, the kid intheir mind, in their body, in
(08:11):
their psyche, they haven't hadthe life experiences that would
have given them that sense ofagency.
I can, I am capable and it'spartner resilience.
I can cope when shit happens.
We only develop resilience byhaving to deal with some shit
and discovering we're stillhere.
And we can lick our wounds andexamine what happened and think,
(08:33):
my gosh, what would I dodifferently next time?
Or how can I avoid that nexttime?
Or just next time I will bestronger because of what I just
went through.
So helicopter parents havedefinitely undermined agency and
resilience, and we shouldn't besurprised therefore, that we
have a large number of youngadults who are like, instead of
I can, they're like, I'm notsure I can, instead of feeling
(08:54):
resilient, like I can cope.
They're like, I can't cope.
I'm not saying helicopterparenting is one on one
correlated with the struggles.
We see so many young adultshaving, it's not the only thing
but it is a big factor.
And this is the beautiful irony.
Ashley kids who were raised.
Let's say by working classparents who didn't have the time
(09:16):
to attend to their every momentand rescue them when they forgot
things.
And so on argue with theteachers they're just busy, you
know, holding down enough jobsto pay the rent in the working
class.
Those kids often emerge intoadulthood stronger, more,
self-reliant more confident thatthey can figure out a solution,
(09:36):
more confident that they cantake care of business because
childhood was a little harder.
They actually have an extra setof tools in their toolkit in
adulthood.
I'm not trying to romanticizepoverty or struggle, but I'm
simply here to say, That whichdoesn't kill you does make you
stronger.
(09:56):
A lot of young adults who arestruggling in their young
adulthood are privileged.
They've been handed too much.
They've been given too much.
So they just don't know how todo for themselves.
I wrote your turn in response tothat, but it's a book that
really does speak very broadlyto all young adults, regardless
of how they were raised.
Ashley (10:15):
That's such a good point too, cuz we really do need to
make mistakes or screw up orhave that confidence building
skills of, I can even simply goto a restaurant and order my own
food because I think evensometimes like that, it's gotten
to the point where having tomake it a telephone conversation
in some cases is so anxietyridden to some youth that I
(10:37):
think the more we move out oftheir way to let them be able to
do it while they're young is sobeneficial because once you're
20 and trying to learn all theseskills, then it's more guilt and
shame and you feel more dumb orwhatever the case may be.
I just feel like it must be somuch harder at 20 trying to
learn skills that essentiallyprobably should have been
(10:57):
incorporated at 10, 11, 12.
Julie (11:00):
My gosh, Ashley, you're sort of officially hitting the
nail on the head with my book.
I really appreciate yourperspective.
I think you're a good dealyounger than me.
I don't know if that's somethingyou share, but if you're
willing, I'd love to know.
Ashley (11:12):
I'm 37.
So I was born in 1985.
Julie (11:14):
Okay.
Got you.
You know, Ashley, I got a call,actually.
I have this hotline I blogweekly at a place called Julie's
pod, but I know not everyone cancomment on social media
publicly.
So I have a hotline people cancall if they wanna share their
thoughts or ask me a question.
It's 1 8, 7, 7.
Hi, Julie.
I'm just trying to hold spacefor people who need to open up.
And one of my callers recentlywas a 23 year old.
(11:36):
Who basically was asking do Istill need to be asking my
parents permission for things orare there some things I don't
need permission for given thatI'm 23 and my jaw just dropped,
you know, she said a whole lotmore than we have the time to
relay now, but.
23.
I was like, yep.
You have the entire right to betotally in charge of your own
life.
(11:56):
Nobody has the right to demandthat they give you their
permission.
Before you go hang out with yourfriends or have a boyfriend, or
what have you.
This was a young person who wasraised by, as she said, very
strict parents, particularly amother who.
She always had to make the case.
Can I do this?
Can I do that?
And you could just hear herbewilderment dismay.
(12:20):
I know that one day that's gonnaturn to anger right now.
She's still sorting out, youknow, do I have the right to
say, actually, mom, no, thankyou.
Or I love you and I'm going todo this.
So I was really rooting for herand giving her all kinds of
advice and furtherance of.
You can respect and love yourparents and still draw these
boundaries.
You know, I am an adult.
(12:41):
Now.
There is no question about that.
The challenges this 23 year oldis still living with her parents
because she's in school tobecome a teacher.
I let her know that when thetime comes and she's got that
first job, she needs to look fora place.
Where she can afford the rent soshe can move out, right.
Get a job where you can live ina place and be in charge of your
(13:01):
rent and your other bills sothat you have the financial
autonomy so that your parentscan't use that to really hold it
over you.
Ashley (13:11):
I have a 15 year old and parenting is such a short term.
Thing where you really do feellike obviously the days are long
and the years are short, but I'min the window now where it's
like, I don't necessarily wantmy 46 year old daughter living
with me.
I wanna be able to switch fromhaving to, you know, know
exactly what she's doing at alltimes know that, you know, she's
(13:34):
not gonna stick a toy up hernose or whatever the case may
be.
And that little kid phase whereI have to be on top of her to
now kind of back off and, andsee what.
Parenting choices.
I mean, that are, are gonna payoff.
Is she gonna be responsible withher homework?
Is she gonna take the initiativeto get her first job?
As a parent, it's amazing to beable to actually see your kids
(13:55):
grow into that functional personand to sort of see what that
next.
Phase looks like that.
I just couldn't imagine if shewas 25 and me calling her
employer to be like, oh, sorry,my daughter can't go to the
staff meeting.
I really need her home fordinner
Julie (14:11):
right.
Yeah.
Ashley, I love that you'relaying out this Plan that, you
know, you have to have in placeand furtherance of your
daughter's growth andindependence and wellness.
Let's not mince words when weundermine their agency and their
resilience in the ways I'vedescribed that lack of agency
and resilience is correlatedwith anxiety and depression.
(14:33):
So.
We've gotta know, it's not justabout, I need to teach them so
that they know how to cut foodand stack a dishwasher and do
laundry and pay their bills.
They need those skills.
Yes.
And having those skills givesthem this healthy sense of self
and it will be likely that theywon't have.
To deal with anxiety anddepression.
So this is important for allkinds of reasons.
(14:55):
Let me suggest three things thatI want parents listening to know
that they can do should do, mustdo in this sort of long term
plan to have confidence thatyou're gonna be able to launch
this young adult out into theworld where both of you have
tremendous confidence that theycan thrive.
These are the things we have tobe thinking of.
Number one.
(15:16):
The surveillance, you know,through the apps, the webcams,
however appropriate that feelsto you now at whatever age and
stage your kid is, remember thatyou were not surveilled as a 20
year old technology wasn'tavailable and you survived and
your parents did just fine.
Let's not subject our youngadults to surveillance.
(15:36):
This is damaging thempsychologically.
I am certain, I'm not apsychologist, but I am certain
that a set of behaviors ofsurveilling people constantly in
life, which was previously onlysomething that incarcerated
people and people in psychiatricfacilities were subjected to 24
7 surveillance doing thisnormally as a normal part of
childhood.
(15:57):
Is harming our kids.
And so you have to have a planfor, how am I gonna pull back?
How am I gonna need to know lessfrequently where they are, what
they're up to.
Right.
Cause we need to know they canmake good choices when we're not
watching.
And constantly surveilling themis sending the opposite message.
The second thing is we'resupposed to teach them skills.
Everything we know we'resupposed to teach them, not do
(16:17):
it all for them forever, butrather do it until they're able
to learn, teach it to them, thenwatch them do it where we're
still there for the, just incase moment.
So they don't set the house onfire.
The first time they're using thestove and maybe even the third
time they're using the stove,but maybe the fourth time they
can now use the stove and youdon't have to be there.
And if they get an ouch, Hey,that's a life lesson.
(16:40):
Okay, that teaches them.
How stand a little bit fartheraway next time, or grab the pot
holder first.
Ashley (16:45):
Exactly.
Julie (16:45):
Four step method for teaching any kid, any skill
first, you do it for them.
Then you do it with them.
Then you turn around and watchthem do it.
And finally they can do itindependently.
The final piece of advice iswhen they have a routine run of
the mill problem, situation,snafu and childhood, instead of
swooping in and solving.
What we're supposed to do isempathize and empower empathy
(17:07):
is, oh, no.
Are you okay?
That sounds frustrating.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
That happened.
Pause and empower.
How do you think you're gonnahandle it, honey?
You say it gently.
You say it with a smile on yourvoice, a smile on your face.
And that tells our kids, Heykid, I believe you can do it
instead of the swooping andsolve, which is saying you can't
(17:30):
handle it.
Don't worry.
I got you.
Which becomes terrifying for ayoung person.
Ashley (17:37):
All of those are really important and almost like
triggering in the sense thatwe're so programmed or it's so
encouraged, you know, those appsdownload this so that everybody
can know where everybody is it'sreally remembering to go back to
the fundamentals almost to thinkabout how our parents did it and
really.
Go back to that.
It wasn't broke.
So why did we try to overcorrect and fix so much?
Julie (18:01):
I agree.
I love your use of the wordovercorrect, because for
example, the fear of strangers,which was really born when you
were young We had an overblownresponse to that fear.
The data show that the chance ofa child being abducted by a
stranger.
So small, they're much morelikely to be harmed by a
relative.
(18:22):
And yet they're with theirrelatives very frequently.
They're also in cars all thetime, and they're more likely to
die as a passenger in a car thanat the hands of a stranger.
And yet we've constructed awhole childhood around stranger
danger being this thing.
So kids aren't often in a parkplaying without adults right
there, or on a sidewalk, walkinghome from a store or at the
(18:45):
store by themselves.
We see, this lovely TV showrecently that's been
highlighting how in Japan,little kids go on their first
errand as a right of the passageand Americans are horrified.
I think Japan has it.
100%, right.
Kids are so much more capable.
They can be more capable than wegive them credit for.
Instead, our way of parenting isreally undermining the
(19:06):
development of skills andconfidence.
All of these things would serveour kids so well, but instead
we're sort of in thishypervigilant safety
perspective, that's just it'soverblow.
Ashley (19:19):
What if you are the youth in this situation where
you have come from helicopterparents, you really don't have
confidence in any of yourskills.
You have anxiety and depression.
How did they learn to adultsuccessfully?
Julie (19:32):
That's why I wrote your turn and in addition to this
book, I've got a course that'sabout to come out, put on by the
Ted people.
The people that do Ted talks arenow doing Ted courses and I've
developed.
A four week course, that's 49bucks that teaches this.
And short of any of that.
Anybody listening, who resonateswith what you just said?
(19:52):
What if you are the youth?
Here's what I wanna say.
Noticing that is step one.
You're calling it to yourconsciousness.
That is step one, say it aloudto someone you trust a good
friend, a family member whoisn't part of the problem, a
mentor.
That's step two and then you'rekind of, you've got 51% of the
problem handled.
(20:13):
In other words, justacknowledging it goes a long
way.
And then it's about, well, whatdo I do?
It may need be that you needtherapy in order to understand
how to draw boundaries with yourparents.
It may be that you need familytherapy.
That's what I've been involvedin.
Look, I'm an expert here talkingto you.
I've told you I got two kids.
They're 22 and 20.
I over parented mine, eventhough I studied this stuff and
(20:36):
I knew that it was problematic.
I didn't realize that what I wasdoing was part of the problem.
So I'm here as an expert, as amom with humility now, and
curiosity in family therapysaying.
Oh, gosh, what do we need to doto repattern our family dynamic
in support of this kid, thrivinginstead of kind of being in the
(20:57):
way of his growth.
So family therapy may be anoption.
If that's something you canafford individual therapy, as
I've mentioned, and at somepoint it's, regardless of
whether you have therapy, it'sbeing able to sit down with your
parents and say, Hey, I know youlove me.
If you can say that a lot ofpeople use that language.
Some people don't.
I know you've tried to instillgood values in me.
I respect you, whatever form ofpraise you can offer your
(21:20):
parents.
You start with that.
And then you say it's time thatI learn to do more for myself.
I'd really like to learn a setof things.
And maybe there are three thingsyou can teach me now.
And then in a few weeks you canteach me another three things,
but we've gotta transition fromyou're handling everything to me
being capable.
I want that.
I need that.
And I'm asking you for it.
(21:41):
I.
Ashley (21:42):
I really do think more often than not that helicopter
parents really don't necessarilyeven acknowledge or realize the
things that they're doing in themoment, because it can seem
like.
Such normal behavior and you getin the patterns and you get in
the habits.
So it's kind of just going, oh,okay.
How can we adjust it?
(22:03):
And knowing that it's not anovernight change and it's okay
if you are the parent thatmessed up and you can kind of
just recalibrate now and move onfrom it.
That for the most part, nosituation is permanent.
Julie (22:18):
Absolutely.
And look parent to parent, mom,to mom.
I know I adore my kids.
I know you adore yours.
I know everyone listening.
Who's a parent loves their kid.
None of us is trying to harm ourkids.
We love these little ones andbig ones.
There are offspring.
We are biologically wired tolove them.
And we do.
(22:38):
It's just that we've gottenmisguided about what love looks
like, frankly, and I'mencouraging parents to
appreciate that.
The most loving thing you cando.
Is let them walk this life pathon their own.
You're there, you're off to theside, you're watching for the,
just in case moments, but you'renot so worried that they're
(22:59):
gonna stumble every single timethey take a step forward that
you're there preventing thestumble.
The stumbles are how we learnthe failures and setbacks.
You know, these are life'sgreatest teacher.
Don't deprive your kid of thevery experiences.
That'll teach them the lessonthat makes them more capable
next time, parent, not for thewin today, but for the strength
(23:21):
and confidence tomorrow.
Ashley (23:24):
Yeah.
I really, really, reallyresonate with that.
I think that's a reallybeautiful point.
Now for parents that are kind ofstruggling or youth that are
kind of struggling of notknowing when they should ask for
help.
When do you think that it isokay for parents to step in and
intervene and help their youngadults?
Julie (23:43):
Well, I think first of all, the greatest currency we
have with our kids as parents.
Is trust.
If we have a trustingrelationship where they know
they can talk to us, we know wecan talk to them trust plus
communication.
That's the sweet spot inparenting.
So we don't wanna ever doanything that undermines trust.
We wanna always try to be thepeople they can come to no
(24:05):
matter what.
So we have to demonstrate we'reworthy of that.
We have to be willing to listento our kids' feelings when a kid
is struggling.
When they're sad, when they'remad, when they're in pain, we
shouldn't say, oh, get over it.
We shouldn't say that doesn'tmatter.
We shouldn't say it's not as badas you think it is.
(24:28):
We should instead.
Empathize.
Oh my gosh.
I'm so sorry.
Are you okay?
Sit down.
You know, I'm here.
There's nothing you've done orthere's nothing that's happened
to you or there's no feeling youhave.
That's gonna chase me away.
I love you so much.
I'm just gonna sit with youhere.
Do you wanna talk, right?
Don't impose your own thoughts.
Active listen, create and holdspace for your kid to open up.
(24:52):
And then after the initial sortof handling or the initial
response to whatever the feelingis, is behind us, then what a
parent can very lovingly say.
You know, I have some thoughts.
Do you want thoughts or wouldyou rather just stay here in
this space of venting?
Both are valid.
Let me know.
You can hear in my voice thatI'm not coming in with.
(25:13):
I have to fix it.
I have to handle it.
This is terrible, but rather tobe this loving person, the kid
can always count on is not gonnahave an explosive emotional
reaction to what they're goingthrough.
This is actually pulling back alittle.
What's beautiful is it bringsthe kid forward.
It allows the kid to kind ofcome into that space and feel
safe instead of having to dealwith our emotions.
(25:35):
Be it sadness or anger, or whathave you.
So that's how we can show up inthe lives of our kids offering
advice and guidance if they wantit, but simply listening and
letting them vent if that's whatthey want.
The more we practice that andbelieve me, I am hard at work on
that with my 20 year olddaughter, cuz I am a fixer.
I love to fix it and handle it.
She's like, mom, stop, stop.
(25:57):
And I constantly have to try tosettle myself in a way that, so
that I don't don't do that.
Over time we prove That we arecapable of listening and aren't
fixers and that's when thenthey're more likely to say, Hey,
can I get some advice from you?
Cuz we haven't burdened themwith giving them advice when
they didn't want it.
Ashley (26:16):
Well, and that is so challenging at times, cuz I'm
the same thing of I've walkedthrough this path.
If I was in this situation, thisis what I would do instead of
just holding space for herexperience that it can be so
challenging to not be the fixerin there.
I think in some ways it's almostwith technology and our hustle
(26:37):
culture where it's like wereally do, or I really do
struggle sometimes to staypresent in that moment where I'm
not being pulled aside to 10different things or just being,
so I think that that is anotherpart that maybe.
We do need to remember with thehustle culture to really, if
your kids are coming to you todisconnect everything and to
(26:58):
really just be present and notworry about the 50 other things
that are potentially runningthrough your day.
Julie (27:05):
That's exactly right.
So this is.
How our own ability to selfregulate our own ability to be
in charge of what's happeningwithin our nervous system to
develop a mindfulness practice,to be able to engage our own
thoughts around what ourfeelings are, to understand
what's coming up for us tovalidate it, to sit with it.
(27:28):
Process it and let it go, allowsus then to show up as these
pillars of strength for ourkids.
But what can happen is when wethink our kid's life is ours,
like our kid is my littleproject.
I have to prove how great aparent I am and my kid's grades
or the evidence of that.
Whether my kid gets on the rightsoccer team is evidence of that.
Like my kid is me.
(27:48):
My kid is my worth.
Our emotional life is so tied upin their, every accomplishment
or their every stumble orfailure, which is not healthy
and means we can't be regulatedat all in response to what
happens with our kids, cuz it'slike our life is resting upon
what they do.
Boy, is that a tremendous amountof pressure to put on a kid and
(28:09):
it's not healthy for us either.
So our own wellness, getting ahandle on our own wellness.
One of the greatest things wecan do to support our children.
Ashley (28:21):
You really do need to have your own hobbies, have your
kid get their own hobbies thatthey're choosing and really
create your own life.
As hard as it is to not letparenthood absorb who you are as
a being, you really do need tomake sure that your title is mom
or dad, or whichever you go by.
Doesn't define a hundred percentof yourself.
Julie (28:41):
Exactly we have children.
They are ours to look aftergiven to us by God or the
universe, or however you believechildren get here.
I think it's a huge task to tryto look after young until they
can look after themselves.
We're supposed to provide themwith shelter and food and love
and whatever opportunities byway of education and enrichment
(29:04):
we can afford.
And we're supposed to then getout of their way so that they
can become this glorious beingthat they are unfettered by our
needs, our neurosis, ourexpectations.
Ashley (29:16):
Then God willing or whichever you believe in, then
you get grandchildren.
And it's like, my parents saidthat that was the best, if they
could have done it the otherway, because then it's like, you
get to see how your parentingpaid off via their parenting.
Then you get all the fun ofhaving that little person again,
without the responsibility ofhaving to be the one to make all
of the decisions.
Julie (29:35):
I.
100% hear that.
I have a very practicalapplication of that for our
actual kids.
About whom we're saying, couldwe have grandchildren because
it'd be easier.
We'd get all the benefitswithout any of the cost or the
pain.
I want people to imagine theirnieces and nephews or their best
friend's kid.
This is a kid you likely know.
(29:57):
Maybe you're really close tothem may be quite close.
Let's say you go over to theirhouse one Friday for dinner and
you're there in the lateafternoon.
And that kid, the child of yourbest friend or your sister or
brother comes home from schooland they bang the kitchen door
shut.
They throw their backpack to theground and they say, well, I
guess I'm failing science.
(30:18):
And they stomp off as auntie orthe uncle or the parent's best
friend.
You don't go.
What do you mean?
We failed science.
We worked so hard on that.
Do I need to call your teacher?
We just say, oh no, buddy.
Oh, that doesn't feel very good.
I'm so sorry.
Are you okay?
Come sit down.
So good to see you.
(30:38):
Did you want a glass of water?
Tell me what happened today.
That was good.
We're able to show up with thatkind of empathy and compassion
when it's not our actual kid.
When it's our kid, we are sostressed out that we are failing
science.
We've totally lost the abilityto support our kid in that
moment.
We're not thinking clearly,therefore we're not gonna help
(30:59):
them think clearly, but thatlittle detachment that comes
with simply being auntie oruncle or family friend means we
can show up more lovingly andmore empoweringly for that kid.
Ashley (31:12):
You can really feel the energy shift when you really
picture both of those scenarios.
It does just seem like thesecond one really would be that
most obvious choice that like,Hey buddy, what's going on?
How can we change your attitudefor the day?
Do you wanna get a snack?
Do you wanna decompress?
Instead of going into that, go,go, go problem solving mode.
Julie (31:35):
Or worse.
What happened?
How could this happen?
We've studied.
We right.
The, the Royal we that's whathelicopter parents use.
Right.
It's our test.
It's our science class.
It's our soccer team.
So therefore we are failing.
We need to call the teacher,like we need to talk to the
teacher.
So there's a trick there aswell, which is when you find
yourself saying we, when youreally mean my kid, try to
(31:58):
switch up those pronouns.
Say my son, my daughter, mychild, my kid.
Stay in your own lane, this istheir science class.
It's their recital.
It's not yours.
Right?
Stay in your lane.
Ashley (32:11):
Especially if you were thinking about like your own
career, you wouldn't say, oh, wehad to have that financial
report done, or we had to fileour taxes that it's like, you
wouldn't drag your kid intothat.
We, so I do think that's areally good point.
Don't drag yourself into their,
Julie (32:26):
I love it.
Ashley (32:29):
Now you had mentioned that you're doing a Ted course.
Are there any other courses orworkshops that you have coming
up that you would like us toknow about?
Julie (32:37):
That's so kind of you actually, the Ted course is
everything I've been working onit for six months.
They invited me to do a coursebased on this book.
I leap at the chance because abook is a long piece of content
And a different way of learningthan a set of videos, which this
course is.
So it's a four week course, andit just keeps repeating every
four weeks.
It's asynchronous.
So you watch a set of videos andthen there are reflection,
(32:59):
exercises, and resources you canclick through and find there is
one live component that you canchoose to join.
If you wanna be in communitywith others who are trying to.
Figure out how to thrive intheir adulthood.
I'm just super excited aboutthat.
That's the only course I'mteaching right now.
Ashley (33:16):
When that goes live, will that be linked back onto
your website or is there aspecific website or the Ted
site, I guess that people wouldfind that
Julie (33:23):
yeah.
I think Ted, this is a newendeavor for Ted and they're
launching six courses at once.
Mine is just one of them and Iknow it'll be on the ted.com
site and it'll also be veryprominently featured, probably
has a banner on my website,which is julielythcotthaims.com.
Ashley (33:40):
I love that Ted is branching out to courses because
I think we do have such a hungerfor education and the majority
of us will look to the internetor to our phones to solve those
problems.
So I do love the fact thatpeople can take this course and
go through the program with you.
Julie (33:57):
Me too.
I'm super excited about thisdifferent medium to deliver this
message.
Ashley (34:02):
Going back to your hotline.
Is it that people can ask anyquestion?
Is it that they cover certaintopics or if somebody was
wanting to call your hotline,what would that look like?
Julie (34:15):
It's anything Ashley it's a mechanism to create space for
people who have things to say orquestions to ask, but don't feel
comfortable on social.
I have a pretty active presenceon Instagram and Facebook and
Twitter.
and I'm comfortable putting myname out there attached to my
thoughts, but I realize noteveryone is.
So this is a kind of an oldschool way.
In fact, if we run video, you'dsee it's an old streamlined
(34:38):
phone that you would plug in.
My landline from when I was incollege, back in the 1980s,
bright red.
And so it goes to a voicemail,so they don't have to worry
about having to talk to aperson.
It just goes straight tovoicemail.
I listen.
And then most Mondays live onFacebook at noon Pacific.
I do what I call let's talk,which is I do a brief update on
(35:03):
behind the scenes, on my lifeand the reactions to last week's
blog post, and Julie's podfeaturing the calls that have
come into the hotline, mayberecommend a book or a movie, and
then they can ask me anything inthe comments.
So I do that as a way to makesure those folks who have
bravely picked up the phone andleft a message for a stranger
about whatever's on their mindthat they feel.
(35:25):
Hey, I'm heard too.
I also matter,
Ashley (35:29):
I love that you're creating that safe space for
people, cuz I think nowadayswith cancel culture or people
just being less vulnerablepublicly, that it would be
really hard sometimes to admitthat they don't know something
or that they do need help.
With something.
So I love the fact that there'ssort of this safe, anonymous
space where they can just reachout, get that assistance, get
(35:50):
that comfort, potentially getthat validation and just know
that they're important and havea response that feels genuine
instead of forced as it can bewith some of our friends and
family.
Julie (36:01):
Yep.
That's exactly what I'm tryingto do.
I believe in all of us, I'mrooting for all of us and I just
feel tremendous compassion.
For all of us, I'm an empath andmany of us are.
I don't have a Messiah complex.
Like I wanna save everybody, butI do care about everybody.
I'm just so clear that so manyof us particularly now are
(36:22):
lonely.
We're languishing because of thepandemic.
We haven't had the juice we getfrom social interactions.
We have an epidemic ofloneliness in many countries as
named by our leaders.
I'm just trying to do my part tosay, you matter to me what
you're going through matters.
I'm here I care.
I will listen.
Can't solve it.
Most likely I cannot solve it,but I know that just being
(36:47):
noticed.
Helps.
So many of us deal with whateverit is, even if just for a few
hours will feel better knowingthat somebody gave a damn
Ashley (36:57):
That piece really is missing so much.
So I really do think that yourhotline will make a significant
difference in a lot of people'slives.
So I really appreciate that youare helping people in that
capacity.
Julie (37:10):
I appreciate that I think of in a different life, maybe I
would've had a radio callingshow where you could just say
what was on your mind and I'dhold space and listen.
And people would listen in andknow that, Hey, other people are
struggling too.
I'm not the only one.
I think that's an importantpiece of this when we can dare
to be vulnerable dare to share.
Then those third parties who arewatching listening, we may never
(37:30):
know who they are, but becausewe dared to open up and there
was a platform for that someoneelse's life.
Is a little less lonely, alittle bit more easy.
Ashley (37:41):
I love that, Julie.
Thank you so much for joining mefor this conversation today.
Julie (37:45):
Oh, Ashley, it's been such a pleasure.
And may I just say to anyonelistening?
We appreciate you.
I know Ashley does.
I certainly do too.
If you felt anything in yourbody as Ashley and I spoke, you
know, a feeling a, sort of a,you knee jiggle, or you got
sweaty palms, or you, felt alittle anxious or you were like,
yes, yes, yes.
Like those are all clues fromyou to you.
(38:07):
That what we said is importantto you in some way, shape or
form.
I encourage you to take thatforward.
Be curious.
What was that about?
What does it mean?
What do you wanna do about.
Ashley (38:15):
We will have all of the ways to connect with Julie in
the show note.
So please take advantage of themand reach out if like she said,
if there was anything thattriggered you or that you felt
connected to.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of the
filled up cup podcast, don'tforget to hit subscribe and
(38:38):
leave a review.
If you like what you hear, youcan also connect with
us@filledupcup.com.
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next
episode.
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