February 7, 2024 • 54 mins
On this episode I am joined by Amanda Edmiston. Amanda is a herbalist and storyteller based in Scotland. She first learnt about plants and recipes from her grandmother who still remembered traditional remedies and folklore. After studying law and then herbal medicine, Amanda found it natural to start bringing together stories, plants, and magical places, drawing on the Scottish storytelling tradition, but in her own unique way. She has been showcasing her own work for over 10 years, performing and creating art in museums, libraries, forests, castles, schools and universities around the world under the banner Botanica Fabula.
We discuss her book: The Time Travelers Herbal, Stories and Recipes from the Historical Apothecary Cabinet. Steeped in history, the herbalist's art paved the way for modern science - but didn't necessarily need to have been replaced by it. In The Time Traveler's Herbal, the traditional remedies and recipes that were passed down through the ages are offered to the modern reader as a means to reconnect with the natural world, while reaping the benefits. Steeped in the stories through which these remedies have been passed down to us, our connection to the past is fully explored in a romantic and meandering journey through the plants and flowers that have healed and helped us through the ages.
Amanda has offered a special discount (CURIOUSHERBAL25) for her Very Curious Herbal online courses.
https://www.botanicafabula.co.uk/online-courses
We discuss her upcoming "Remedy for Valentine's Day" event. If interested in participating: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/manage/events/796895464787/details
Botanica Fabula
Amanda Edmiston BotanicaFabula (@amanda.edmiston) • Instagram photos and videos
Botanica Fabula | Substack
Ashley (@filledupcup_) • Instagram photos and videos
Filled Up Cup - Unconventional Self Care for Modern Women
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the filled up cuppodcast.
We are a different kind of selfcare resource, one that has
nothing to do with bubble bathsand face masks and everything to
do with rediscovering yourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences, and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most
(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.
Ashley (00:30):
I'm very excited.
Today I have Amanda Edmonstonjoining me.
Amanda is the author of the TimeTraveler's Herbal Stories and
Recipes from the HistoricalApothecary Cabinet.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Amanda (00:44):
You're very welcome.
It's lovely to talk to you andto be invited on.
I've been really enjoying yourpodcast.
Ashley (00:50):
Oh, thank you so much.
Can you tell us a little bitabout the book?
Amanda (00:55):
Absolutely.
So it came about really becauseI've been what I call a herbal
storyteller, which is kind of, Iknitted my own job.
I made it up for about 14 yearssince my eldest daughter was
little and I needed to findsomething to do with myself.
(01:16):
I'd studied herbal medicine atcollege, but I didn't want to go
into clinical practice.
What I wanted to do, it turnedout, was sort of connect people
to plants in a naturalenvironment.
And Talk about how we've usedthese plants that we live with
(01:38):
all around us, even in cities ina way that made people excited
and interested and engaged withthem.
And so, because my mum's been astoryteller for 35 years now I
already I grew up with stories,you know, stories were an
incredibly important part ofevery aspect of my life from
(02:01):
fairy tales, ancientmythologies, legends, folklore,
and I knew that there wereplants in all those stories, but
other people didn't necessarilysee it.
And I guess I just have thiswhole thing about plants and
stories.
And.
The connection between them andI'm very aware because I work
(02:22):
with community groups acrossScotland and very fortunately
around the world.
Where I realized that this was acommon thread.
Everyone knew stories andeveryone knew or lived alongside
plants or when you mentionedplants wanted to know more.
So I started to weave in socialhistory as well.
(02:45):
I'd been doing this, I guess, asa workshop.
I'd been creating performancepieces.
It kind of felt natural for itto come together as a book.
And that's exactly what I do.
I explore stories.
folklore, community traditions,herbal medicine, plants that we
live alongside over a period ofhistory.
(03:08):
so that's what the book is aboutand kind of a little bit of my
own journey because there arelots of little excerpts from my
storytelling adventures and alittle bit of a biography woven
in there too.
Ashley (03:20):
I really love the fact that it ties all those things
together.
I think that.
We're always looking for thatconnection piece of learning new
things, but also seeing how wefit into it.
And I think sometimes withplants, I think we've created
this story that we tellourselves that, Oh, it's
complicated or, you know,talking about having a green
thumb or a brown thumb or thingslike this, that I think when we
(03:44):
bring it back down to these havebeen around forever, you're
probably utilizing them in waysthat you don't even realize.
And making it so that it issomething that they can feel
that connection to and feellike, Oh, maybe I can learn this
way and I'm not going to feelstupid, or I'm not going to feel
whatever to ask, and have thatplace where they can really feel
open to learning, I think is soneeded.
Amanda (04:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that goes into a lotof my work, is I want to
reassure people that they maybedon't realise they know a lot
about plants, But they do.
And, you know, at any givenmoment, you're probably wearing
two or three different plants orthe fabric of your house is made
(04:26):
of them.
And, you eat them even ifyou're, a massive carnivore and
you have a really meat andcarbohydrate kind of diet you're
probably eating wheat, you know,and the animal that you're
eating will have eaten a load ofplants and there will be plants.
It's all around you and in yourlife.
And I guess it's also aboutreassuring people that it's all
(04:48):
okay.
I feel like the further we getfrom that relationship the more
concerned people are, the morefear creaks into their
interactions with plants andthey feel like, Is it safe to
take this, herbal medicine?
Is it safe to you know, picksomething that I have passed in
(05:12):
the hedgerow or in my garden?
I feel like we need to, takeback that power to be able to
engage with plants when most ofthem are very benign, most of
them are really giving and notbe afraid.
So yeah, there's both of thosesort of elements are woven in.
Ashley (05:31):
Thinking about the fear aspect of it, we're not being
taught to feel safe to you knowgrab that flower and put it in
your tea or and again This hasbeen around for thousands of
years that it's like that is asafe option Doesn't mean that
other options aren't Things tobe explored or if you're
somebody who wants the door dashto come and bring your dinner,
(05:52):
you can still accompany it withlike seasoning from your garden
or things like that.
It's just we can have the bestof both worlds.
Amanda (05:59):
Absolutely, and I think that's really important.
I mean, even though I've studiedherbal medicine, even though I
use plants all the time I usethem medicinally, I use them
just in cooking, all kinds ofways, I still struggle sometimes
if I'm taking herbal medicine onprescription, for example, to
(06:21):
drink enough tea.
And it wasn't until I wasworking with another friend of
mine, another herbalist, whoI've collaborated with on one of
the courses I've been writingrecently.
And she said to me, Why don'tyou just mix the herbs that you
want to take for medicine inwith your usual cup of tea?
(06:44):
Okay, I tend to prefer a greentea anyway.
I can buy that loosely and I'mjust like, I don't know because
in the West we have a real fearof tea and coffee because it's
caffeinated and we immediatelythink bad, bad, bad, you know.
But actually the Traditionalstory that goes with green tea
(07:07):
is all about health and wellbeing, you know, it's a
beautiful Chinese story and itsplace as a spiritual Healing lee
is very important.
It's a pivotal story And she'sright.
She's scottish indonesian.
She's currently Workingnomadically she's out in
(07:28):
Malaysia, I think at the momentand she's like, I have, I've
been fortunate enough to tellstories in China.
I know for well that in the sortof native home or the places
where this plant is cherishedmost, they don't fear it in the
same way that we do in the West.
And that's maybe because theyadd its reverence still, you
(07:49):
know, it's still seen as given abit more importance.
We don't just buy it off thegrocery shelf.
Part of that then becomesinfused with a bit of fear and
so now I need to take my nettlesfor their ability to boost your
iron levels and stop you beinglow in vitamins I'm currently
taking rose petals in my herbaltea prescription because they're
(08:12):
really restorative to the heart.
They're really soothing andbeneficial.
There's some lemon balm, Ithink, which is again a nice
uplifting mood enhancing herb.
But now instead of thinking, Oh,I can't drink my herbal tea.
I'm just adding a few of thoseherbs in with my cup of green
(08:35):
tea.
It's that simple, you know, offthe shelf, supermarket, green
tea, but with some herbs mixedin, so the herbs keep going, or
as you say, once spring arriveshere, what I love nothing more
than like grabbing a few leavesas I pass, you know, I've got a
dog, so I'm out walking, myspaniel and I grab a few leaves
(08:58):
and I just Pop them on top of asalad.
Food doesn't always have to befancy, but plants and natural
herbs that we can get for free.
I feel that's one of the reasonsthat we fear them a bit as well.
You know, big companies, bigindustries would quite like us
to pay for everything ratherthan think that we could feed
ourselves or heal ourselves.
(09:20):
without giving them money.
So, you know, a little bit freeherbal enhancement goes a long
way.
Ashley (09:29):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
I think it's just getting backto who we are as ourselves and
just really leaning into it'sokay to trust ourselves.
Amanda (09:37):
Absolutely.
And we all have, busy lives andwe don't always have time to do
everything we would like to.
I would love to have a smallholding and have chickens and
grow all my own vegetables andall my own herbs and have a
beautiful apothecary full oftinctures.
The reality of that.
is I would find that incrediblyhard to work alongside two
(10:01):
children and the dog and myhusband who's also self employed
and, you know, elderly parentsin different parts of the
country and all those otherthings, bills to pay.
And I do have a beautiful herbalcabinet full of things that I've
picked for free, but I don'thave the time at the moment or
(10:21):
the energy to have.
Everything.
And I think we quite often feelit has to be perfect before we
can do it.
And it doesn't.
You can just do a little bit.
And a little bit can make somuch difference to your life,
you know.
I think stepping away from theall or nothing approach quite
often frees up quite a lot oftime and energy and gets rid of
(10:45):
the guilt.
Ashley (10:47):
Agreed.
And there is no perfect time.
Like nobody's going to pass us aboatload of money and say, do
whatever you want with it.
I wish that they would, but it'sjust, it's highly unlikely that
that will be the case.
So I do think it is, it's likedipping your toe in and just
seeing what works for you andwhat doesn't.
And if somebody was like, all ofthat sounds great, but I don't
(11:08):
know where to start.
What is some simple ways thatyou can kind of.
Start researching or startgetting interested in herbalism
in your day to day life.
Amanda (11:18):
Well, I think really because I love stories, I've
always said that even reading astory where, or reading, I don't
know, a sort of magazine articleor anything, anything simple
that you can engage with helps.
Take your mind and your mindsetinto the place where it becomes
easy to access.
(11:39):
I guess my book doesn't comewith a massive plant ID section.
If you go into any bookstore, orlook at, you know, any of the
online retailers, you will findbeautiful, incredibly well
written plant ID books, relevantto where you live.
(12:00):
And so there's no point in merepeating that.
I do, however, put in Latinnames so that people We call
plants different things indifferent places, so that people
can be sure of what I'm talkingabout.
So I think get yourself a goodplant ID book, if you're not a
book person or you're travelinga lot, there are really good
(12:21):
plant ID apps.
double check, you know whereyou're going.
So if it's a plant, I work withschools a lot.
And I always say to the kids,they go, what's this?
What's this?
And I say, this family of plantsall looks incredibly similar.
And a couple of them are bighitting poisons.
So we're not going to look atthose, but there are plants like
(12:43):
a dandelion which grows widelyacross a lot of countries in the
world, or a nettle, most of ushave nettles where all the near
relatives.
that look similar are also nontoxic.
So start small with the thingsthat are hard to get wrong, you
know?
(13:04):
Get yourself a plant ID app or areally good book or both, double
check and go and start lookingat them and then smell them, if
you know, They're definitelyedible.
Get a really good basicforager's guide saying this is
edible, don't take it if you'vegot this profound health
(13:25):
condition and start there.
Start small.
And find something.
I mean, I feel like the really,the heavy duty Scientific,
accurate, really factual stuffis vital.
But one of the reasons I wantedto write my book was because
when I work in museums orbotanic gardens, I'm super aware
(13:48):
that people are put off by thatreally sort of academic,
heavyweight, approach.
I know that if I talk about themusing rose hips that they found
in the garden, They don't feelput off by that.
If it's in a story, they want togo and do that, whereas if
they've read a big, you know,herbal medical book and the
(14:09):
heavyweight plant ID book,they're like, they're put off by
the volume of knowledge, whereasif they've heard a story about,
you know fairies and fabulousCreatures that live in lochs or,
up mountains and that feelseasier to relate to, I guess
it's lighter, it lights up yourbrain in a different way.
(14:30):
So I guess start by knowing whatyou're looking for.
Start small, maybe ask your,family, maybe ask older people
around you in your neighborhoodand sort of say, what plants?
do you recognize around here?
And there will be berries inhedgerows.
Older people in their maybe 70sand 80s remember picking when
(14:51):
they were children and using.
Or maybe, you remember yourself.
I certainly went picking berrieswith my mum when I was little
still.
So start with those reallysimple things and then build on
it.
Ashley (15:03):
Well, and I think that talking to people, especially
our elders, is something that Idon't know whether the internet
has moved us away from, but it'ssuch a valuable resource, not
just It's not necessarily tolearn about, you know, skills
that we want, but just all ofit, just having that connection
of like this person has beenaround for so long.
(15:24):
They know all of these things.
And again, like what you'resaying when you read a super
scientific book, you're likeone, either this is probably
boring or two, it can be so muchthat you're like, I'm never
going to learn this.
It's never going to stay in myhead and it becomes this
intimidating practice where it'slike, if you can sit down and
just.
read something that does feelmore relatable or is the story
(15:47):
is sent to you in a way thatit's like digestible, but it
doesn't make you feel like I'mnot going to understand this or
I'm, you know, dumb or justfeeling like you're going to
embarrass yourself.
And I think that there's so muchfear.
of admitting that you don't knowstuff or admitting that you want
to learn stuff instead of thisassumption that we have to know
it all and be all of the thingsthat I think that I totally
(16:10):
agree with you.
Having a story that's sent to usin a digestible form, whether
it's about fairies or whetherit's about something that's
like, Hey, this is what I wentthrough.
Maybe it'll work for you.
I think is so much better thanjust having it in a science
form.
And again, there's some peoplethat that side of their brain,
they might like that better.
But again, best of both worldsto try to find something that
(16:31):
works for you to spark thatinterest.
Amanda (16:35):
Absolutely.
And I love that you used theword intimidating.
I think that it does becomeintimidating.
And I've said to people before,we've told these stories about
how we use plants for thousandsand thousands of years, and
people will remember a 5000 yearold story about a phoenix.
Like Creature, a Bennu in Egyptthat uses frankincense to help
(16:59):
restore its body.
They won't read the latest free700 page research document from
the University of Mumbai,talking about how frankincense
facilitates cell renewal.
They'll remember the phoenix.
A child will remember thephoenix.
You're going to need a sciencedegree before you can even
handle a heavyweight medical.
(17:22):
Research document.
And that lost intergenerationalknowledge and oh, I mean the
internet kind of makes us allinstant experts, doesn't it?
If you follow herbalists, whichobviously I do, but a lot of
people give you a huge body ofinformation and it's quite easy
to feel like this is not for meor, you've been handed all the
(17:46):
information all at once.
I think that, you know, weforget the vital sort of element
of communication that we'veshared with.
People around us for a very longtime where you get a tiny bit of
information and then you buildon that.
And then if you want to go andexplore and research more, it
builds up and up and up ratherthan just getting all dropped in
(18:09):
front of you.
I think bite sized amounts italso makes it more accessible.
It stops alienating people, it,Stops there being that fear
factor again, that, you know,that we started off talking
about, which for me, I thinkit's really important.
I think we need to feel likeplants are a normal, easy,
(18:30):
accessible, friendly, that wecan get out there and enjoy
them.
And that there's no sense wehave to do it properly all the
time,
Ashley (18:39):
well, and that each person's practice can be
different.
If you are, say, followingdifferent herbalists or you're
picking up different books, toknow like, I can take this
little piece from this and thislittle piece from that.
I love that storytelling is sucha big part of your book.
When you were researching anddeciding to actually publish,
was there a favorite story thatyou wanted to make sure you
(19:01):
definitely shared with theworld?
Amanda (19:03):
There were two or three.
So I started.
When I was commissioned to writethe book, the lovely
commissioning editor that phonedme up, I, honestly, I was that
person that wanted to write abook when they were a kid, and I
always read these how to be awriter columns, and I'd be like,
oh, you're meant to write asynopsis, and you've got to send
it off to a load of publishers,and everyone's always like, you
(19:26):
get turned down by 60 odd peoplebefore you get a book deal, and
I am the lucky person who gotphoned up by someone who went, I
really love you what you do.
Can you write a book?
And I went, yes.
And she went, great.
What are you going to writeabout?
And I'm like okay.
I want to do what I do onlineand in my storytelling sessions.
(19:48):
But turn it into a book.
And she's like, brilliant.
I love what you do online.
Right.
Do that.
So fabulous.
But the project I've beenworking on when.
The editor made that call wascalled the very curious herbal
project and I'd been lookinginto the life of an incredible
(20:09):
pioneering Scots woman who wasborn in Aberdeen in Scotland,
where I grew up.
was born as well ElizabethBlackwell.
And in 1737, she became thefirst woman to publish a herbal.
She eloped with a man whobasically turned out to be not
(20:30):
great.
He spent all her money.
And left her penniless with achild.
And she was, you know, middleclass and educated.
And instead of doing what Iwould have done if I'd been in
her shoes, I'll be honest.
Which is leaving London with mychild and going back to my mum
and dad's.
She decided she would Startdrawing the plants in the
(20:54):
Botanic Gardens, Chelsea PhysicGarden, near where she lived to
support herself and her childand ultimately, bless her, pay
off her husband's debts and gethim out of debtor's prison.
But she had this wonderful storyand for years academics have
dismissed her work by sayingthat her husband wrote all the
words, all the bits of medicalknowledge about plants from
(21:17):
prison.
And I was just like, this is notpossible.
So I went down to Chelsea PhysicGarden and I spoke to some
people there.
I worked with a couple ofwonderful heritage librarians, a
wonderful librarian up inAberdeen was super helpful.
And the library staff at theRoyal College of Physicians and
Surgeons in Glasgow werewonderful.
(21:39):
I didn't find any solidevidence.
I just threw it out there thatthis was probably rubbish.
There were enough people saying,this is unlikely to have
happened.
What's more likely to havehappened is she was working with
apothecaries in this herb gardendrawing plants.
She would have had access tobooks.
We know she was very educatedfor a woman in those days.
(22:02):
And there's no evidence tosuggest the husband wrote it.
Another wonderful herbalist thatI know who has written a lot
about women healers in history,Elizabeth Brooke, said that she
had spotted evidence thatElizabeth Blackwell went to
weekend workshops and learnedabout midwifery from some of the
leading practitioners of theday.
So I built up this picture.
(22:22):
It's wonderful, inspiring woman.
I thought I would write anentire book, not about her, but
with elements of her life woventhrough it and elements of my
own journey, but about theplants that she wrote and wrote
about and illustrated.
Because she wrote and she drewand wrote about an amazing 500
(22:46):
plants at a time when Britainwas experiencing the end of the
witch trials.
Scotland was notorious forburning more witches than nearly
anywhere else.
And medicine was becoming moreand more regulated.
And so knowledge was beingshifted, you know, the power
(23:06):
struggle was shifting who heldknowledge about how to heal.
our autonomy over our ownhealth.
was starting to be lost.
But also they were horrendousempirical white middle aged men
with a lot of money going intoother people's countries and
making off with their plants.
But the shift was happening sothat she drew Coco.
(23:29):
When it had just arrived in thecountry, she drew a tamarind and
turmeric and plants thatwould've been seen as exotic.
She drew an illustrated lemonsand oranges before they were
spotted by James Lund as beingvital to prevent scurvy on long
voyages.
(23:50):
So, you know, she was.
writing about nettles,dandelions, chickweed, oak
trees, simple everyday nativeplants that would have been here
for thousands of years, but shewas also drawing the plants that
were just arriving.
And she sold this bookepisodically so that she could
keep earn a living for herselfand her child.
(24:12):
So she kind of made theknowledge accessible to a lot of
people.
So clearly, you know, picking upon what we've been talking about
already, this kind of resonatedwith me a lot.
I wanted to tell her story, butwhen Lizzie approached me, the
editor from David and Charles toask about me writing a book, I
felt that there were so manyother stories that I wanted to
(24:34):
tell.
I wanted to tell one of mygrandfather's.
Stories that he told me when Iwas really little about a woman
turned to stone.
He was a stone carver, asculptor near my hometown.
I wanted to tell other storiesand they were nearly all about
people that had traveled to orfrom Scotland.
It's all connected back upreally to the place I live and
(24:57):
the place I'm most familiar withand the plants I know, but yeah,
there were a couple of realfamily treasures.
That had to go into the book,but as you can probably tell by
the amount of passion and howlong that bit of chat has been
Elizabeth Blackwell was reallyimportant for me to get in
there.
Ashley (25:13):
Anything that brings people so much passion that they
just have to share it.
I think those are the thingsthat we resignate with so much.
And I think we are all cravingauthenticity so much that
finding those real stories andfinding people's passion, I
think it lights up our souls ina way that is so needed and
(25:34):
listening to you talk about her.
I just also get so frustratedbecause it's like, we think
we've come so far and we pushthat needle of women's rights so
much further.
And then you really think aboutit and we really haven't.
And a lot of those things thatshe dealt with are things that
in 2023 2024 are very, veryrelevant, especially when it
(25:54):
comes to autonomy.
Not so much in Canada yet, but Iknow in the U.
S.
there basically got rolled back30 years in women's health care.
And in education, I feel like itis still very much the idea that
we should just be pretty and sitin the corner and that men
should Do whatever they're goingto do I think it's still this
idea that they don't want womento be seen as equals and that we
(26:17):
can't be, better than in certainindustries that it really is
still that power struggle that Ithink good for her for being
able to be brave enough to beThat way back then and shame on
anybody who just thought ahusband was going to be the one
to do all of these things likeit's just, it's so frustrating,
(26:38):
but also so empowering to knowthat women have pushed through
these boundaries and not hadthat fear and just said, you
know, I'm going to do all of thethings because we really only
have one life to live.
It's getting rid of that fearand just saying, I'm going to do
this, whether people feelcomfortable with it or not.
Amanda (26:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I mean, if you take on boardthat in London in 1730s, women,
unless you were very poor andthere were certain jobs
inevitably that women ended updoing, but middle class,
Educated women did not work.
And not only that, but botanyand the study of plants was seen
(27:19):
as an absolute no-go area.
Another 60 years later, MaryWalston Craft, who wrote the
Vindication of Women was toldoff by the church for saying
women should study botany.
He said it was absolutelyappalling behavior for women to
be thinking about plants and thereproductive system.
I was just like, okay, you know,wandering around pregnant, but
(27:42):
whatever you do, don't thinkabout reproduction, I do think
it really does it staysirrelevant people say, you know,
is it still relevant and I'mlike Absolutely.
Because we are still wadingthrough those layers of
restraint and having ourautonomy taken away from us.
And a little bit of a parallelthere with Canada and the US and
(28:05):
women's rights.
You know, the difference there.
In her day, in Scotland, whenyou got married, Women were
allowed to keep their own money.
In England, they had curvature.
So if you got married, all yourmoney became your husband's.
And so he had right of yourabsolutely everything.
And one of the things that's.
(28:25):
It's sort of quite important inthe early stages of Elizabeth
Blackwell's adult life is thateven though she gets married and
to a man she had to elope.
The family were not for amarrying Alexander Blackwell.
He was.
definitely already seen as a bitof a problem.
He came from a wealthy family,but she clearly kept hold of her
(28:47):
money.
I mean, she clearly tried tobail him out quite a lot, but
she was already a strong womanwho was acting with a degree of
autonomy over a number of areasin her life before she even
decides to make this quiterevolutionary step of getting
out there and doing something.
previously unheard of, it's areally great story about
(29:09):
resilience, but also about howhistory keeps being relevant and
relatable.
Do you know, I mean, the more Ihave worked with her story and
the plants that she'd looked at,it was so relatable because,
there were parallels about howI'd designed and created herbal
storytelling as a single mumwith my first child.
(29:32):
Incidentally, in the same gardenthat Elizabeth Blackwell wrote
her herbal.
So it keeps being relevant.
And I think that's one of thevital things about stories and
about social.
History that we shouldn'tdismiss them.
We have such a fast turnover ofculture these days, and news,
and social media that we forgetsometimes how vital.
(29:58):
Incredibly important elementsthe old stuff still has.
Ashley (30:02):
As we age, we sort of realize like, hey, I still have
value.
Like, I still know all of thethings where I think when you're
younger, I feel like.
You have this age in your headand you're like, that's an old
person.
And then once you reach that,you're like, that's a very young
person.
And so I feel like it is justthat wisdom of sharing our
stories and sharing ourconnections.
(30:22):
I think it's amazing that we'reable to have online connections
and meet people that you wouldnever meet, but it's also having
just that connection in yourlife.
I feel like.
Picking up the phone andactually using it to talk to
people instead of textingpeople.
Sometimes it's still creatingthat connection within your life
that is going to build value.
It's talking to elderly familymembers.
It's doing your research andsaying like, in your day, what
(30:44):
was school like?
What were relationships like?
And just, I think everygeneration sometimes has the
idea that it's just us.
Like we've never gone throughthis.
And I found even as my daughter,when she was in her middle
school ages, and she was havingfights with other girls.
She was like, this didn't happenwhen you were younger.
And I'm like, it did.
And it happened for my mom andso on.
(31:05):
And it's a cycle that repeats.
And I think sometimes when weget too in our egos or just not
educated enough in thoserelationships and having those
conversations, but it's like, wedo realize that we're more like
than different and that we needto build on those likenesses so
that we can see what worked foryou.
What should I try and just.
not feel like we have to be onthis little island alone doing
(31:28):
all of the things and having allof the knowledge that it's
really beautiful to look backand be like, there were these,
ball busting women that werebrave in their day and doing
things that nobody else haddone.
It almost gives us permission tobe like, I'm going to try to
take this class, or I'm going toread this book, or I'm going to
say no to this job.
Or this date or this whateveryou're telling yourself that you
(31:51):
should be doing and just takethose chances.
Amanda (31:55):
Actually you've just reminded me of something really
important you touched uponearlier, which is if you have
those conversations and thosemoments, which as mothers that
we do a lot of, or just actuallyas older people, maybe talking
to people of saying, someonesays, oh, you know, I've got
this thing going wrong with mybody, and if someone else has
(32:16):
been through that experience andfound something that helped then
you have that autonomy of yourown health.
You don't necessarily have to goto a doctor or into a pharmacy
and buy something that justmasks the symptoms.
You maybe will find somethingreally simple on this occasion.
I use a blend of.
(32:36):
obviously go to the doctors forthe big stuff.
But there are some things thatit's cheaper, easier, quicker to
use that, or, you know, a friendwill say this is, I had
something really similar.
Have you tried this?
You're like, Oh, why did I neverthink of this before?
This is wonderful.
It's a really, really valuablething that we need to keep and
(32:59):
build on really in all ourlives, I guess.
Ashley (33:02):
It's keeping things accessible.
If you know, Simple things thatcould help you with, you know,
improving your sleep, improvingyour stress.
Family doctors are rare to findlike a regular GP that you would
go to about things that weren'tlike a big emergency.
And sometimes if you don't haveone, it can take you five to 10
years to be able to find aregular doctor to see.
(33:24):
It's a really big problem rightnow and then they're trying to
kind of change it so that wehave online doctors, but again,
it's kind of a complicated thingbecause in Canada, essentially
our health care is supposed tobe free.
So the online doctors are now away to introduce a paid version,
pros and cons to both.
And then if you do end up havingsomething severe enough that you
(33:47):
have to go to emergency there'slike staffing issues and
emergency room wait could be onaverage like 10 to 12 hours to
be able to get back in to beseen.
So again, A lot of people eitherdon't wait and then run into
different issues or that onceyou even get in, it's so slammed
and so busy that they're missingthings and it's very broken
(34:09):
right now.
So it's always nice, I think, tohave different options, not to
say don't ever go to the doctor,maybe have this as an option
first, so that if you can't getinto a doctor or you don't have
walk in clinics where you live,then it isn't something where
you have to feel like alone andscared.
It's something where you cankind of take back some of that
fear and go, let's just see ifthis is what works for me.
(34:33):
Because it does feel likethere's not a ton of options
depending on what ailment you'retrying to cure.
Amanda (34:40):
we have a less dramatic, but we're also struggling with
shortage of doctors in healthservice at the moment.
My mum, I know, for example,lives in Highest Village in
Scotland.
It's quite remote, it gets cutoff quite easily by bad weather,
but they don't have a villagedoctor anymore.
So she's got to travel to go tothe doctor.
(35:02):
There are some things that youwill travel to go and see a
doctor for, if you are luckyenough to have a family doctor.
There are some things I mean, Iknow from speaking to friends
who are nurses and have workedin emergency rooms that there
are people that turn up inemergency rooms with things that
you think, Why on earth haveyou, come all this way for
(35:23):
something that's not anemergency?
And at which point, yeah, ifyou've got a few simple things
you can turn to at home or maybeyou have friends or books and
you're confident enough to beable to explore some other
options, you maybe save yourselfa load of money, a load of time,
can treat something that nobodyelse would have noticed.
(35:45):
And take back that autonomy andI think it probably also then
completely boosts your selfconfidence and how you value
yourself, how you value yourhealth.
And then, if you can help lookafter people around you, then
That's an added bonus.
You don't necessarily need to bea fully qualified clinical
herbalist, but a few simplethings that you can turn to make
(36:10):
a world of difference.
Ashley (36:11):
Maybe once you start really doing that research,
maybe you find that you doactually have a registered
herbalist in your area.
I feel like if we don't step outof our comfort zone or step out
of the little box that wecreated for ourselves, there's a
whole big world out there thatthere are a lot of services that
you can lean into and get help.
Amanda (36:30):
Absolutely.
And I think we've also in a lotof Western cultures stopped
treating ourselves in apreventative way.
We firefight and our healthservices firefight their way
through those dramatic, scaryyou know, life affecting
problems.
But there's so much more that wecan do just to prevent us.
(36:52):
Suffering from dreadful thingsin the first place, or even
things like talking a little bitabout having a cold or a bit of
a bunged up nose.
I have techniques, I have herbsin the cupboard, I have
essential oils, I have variousdifferent things that I can use
that are plant based that willmake me recover quicker and not
(37:12):
suffer as badly.
And it's that simple.
It's stopping, you're being ableto take preventative steps that
then stop you having to go toemergency room or go to a
doctor.
And as you say, you can do apiecemeal approach.
I'm not going to suggest thatyou avoid going to the doctor if
you've broken a limb or you'vegot something life threatening,
(37:33):
you pull all the sources in,don't you, to help you build a
solution.
Yeah, absolutely.
But definitely multifaceted isthe way to go.
And I think, yeah, there are,there are likely to be good
herbalists near most people inthe world, I would imagine.
I think most of us will havesomeone that we can access that
(37:55):
will know a bit more if we feellike plants may have an answer,
but we don't have the knowledgeor resources to be able to work
on our own.
Ashley (38:03):
The great thing is like you said, we do most likely all
have them in our community.
And then that's also where theinternet comes in, that it has
sort of made this like bigcommunity.
So if you say, find somebody andthey're not local to you, you
can still talk to them.
You can still reach out to them.
You could still potentially taketheir classes and workshops like
what you offer and create yourown community, wherever that may
(38:26):
be.
Amanda (38:28):
Yeah, and also the internet allows us to see all
kinds of wonderful connectionsthat we may not have noticed.
I had a lovely woman in one ofmy workshops in Edinburgh just
before Christmas.
And she was studying sort ofherbs and ethnobotany kind of
direction.
So a sort of anthropologicalview of herbal medicine
(38:51):
alongside a herbal medicinestudies.
She told me where she was fromin the States and she'd been
traveling and I said, oh,actually, I think you are
possibly near enough to myfriend Erica, this is her herbal
practice.
You should probably give her achance.
She went, that's funny.
How do you know Erica?
And I said, well, we studied atcollege together.
(39:12):
And she went, she gave me a listof people I should look up in
Scotland when I was visiting andone of them recommended I come
and see you.
And I was just like, okay,that's really peculiar.
You know, I've got an audienceof people I'm working with.
And someone in the audiencewent, I'm really interested in
what you do.
(39:32):
And then it turned out we knew aherbalist in common somewhere
thousands of miles away.
And so it is a great community.
There are governing bodies, ifyou like, that ensure that
people have appropriatequalifications and appropriate
levels of knowledge and skilland work safely.
So if that's a concern, you canmake sure that you seek out
(39:54):
people who are, really havereally good credentials.
But yeah, also, but the internetis wonderful for that.
You can check things out.
And also you make these.
wonderful community connectionswith this wider community, which
is really exciting.
So I love that combination ofthe small, but also the
(40:15):
expansive and how inclusive andaccessible it makes everything.
Ashley (40:20):
I think that it is so funny how, again, it does become
that small world of like, howdid they even know me?
And how do I even recommend themthat it, it does become like
like minded people sometimesfeel like, I don't know who to
talk to, or there's nobody in mylife that has the same interest
or whatever.
So it can be like, I can find mypeople outside of my immediate
(40:42):
friend group if that's needed,and I just think it's really
beautiful that as bad as theinternet can be at times, there
really is that positive side ofit, of that building
connections, of seeking outpeople, and being like, I'm not
alone in this, or I'm not weirdto think this way.
I do like what you said to is tomake sure because there is a lot
of misinformation online to lookfor the governing groups of
(41:06):
things so that you are.
Not just taking any advice, butagain, from people that you can
kind of back up that they'reknowledgeable, especially if
you're still learning.
Amanda (41:14):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
but then also not to dismiss thewhole idea of saying that
conversation with people who'veexperienced it, who may say to
you, yeah, I went, oh, thisperson who's wonderful.
There were a lot ofopportunities to tie it all up
out there and learn in differentways, and it's quite exciting, I
mean, talking about community,one of the reasons the book came
around, as I said, is becausethe commissioning editor had
(41:36):
seen my online stuff, butreally, again, I've got bigger
social media pages andfollowing, but my tiny thing.
Facebook group.
You can join it if anyone wantsto listening.
It's called BotanicaFabulousness, it's kind of like
Botanica Fabulous School ofHerbal Storytelling.
(41:56):
It's something I'm developingalong with online courses, not
to go down the like purelymedical route, but to look at
those elements of folklore andstories and a little bit of the
medicine, a little bit of thesocial history that kind of
engage you with plants and drawyou in.
But that group where we chatabout the courses and what we're
(42:18):
doing on that, because they'reall remote, you can just follow
them in your own time.
But that group is incredible.
That's where the commissioningeditor saw me.
That group involves peoplehaving really good
conversations, sometimes off toone side, meeting up with
friends.
It's developed a community, buta worldwide community, of, a few
(42:39):
hundred people that reallyconnect over this.
And so I think the communitything is life changing.
It's been absolutely wonderful.
And what would we have donethrough COVID without, our
online communities?
I feel like there are peoplethat have come along to my
workshops and that I've seen atevents now for years that feel
like old friends.
(43:01):
I had a lovely woman come up tome in one workshop and say, I
hope you don't feel like I'mstalking you.
I genuinely come to everything.
And I'm like, no, it's so lovelyto see you, you know, honestly,
I'm really pleased to seepeople, it really does feel
like, I have great friends, butwe're friends because we like
the same writer or they'refriends because our children are
(43:22):
the same age, or we've knowneach other since childhood, but
I also have this Wonderfulcommunity now of crazy plant
people.
Basically we all wander aroundgoing, Oh, have you tried this?
And like, Oh, look at this niceplant.
And I'm like, that makes mehappy.
It's all about community.
I think that's where I'm goingwith that.
Ashley (43:44):
That is so true.
Now I know that you had kind oftouched on it, the botanica
fabula.
You are doing online workshopsand in person as well can you
let us know a little bit aboutthe services or what that would
look like?
Amanda (43:58):
Sure.
So I work in two ways.
One is what I've done for thepast nearly 15 years which is as
a herbal storyteller.
So I go out and I createperformance pieces for say
museums, heritage organizations,botanic gardens, work with
(44:18):
schools a lot.
Usually under the guise ofherbal magic and potent potions,
but I do a wonderful Victoriansworkshop, for example, looking
at Britain in the Victorian era,or I do One all about nettles,
which is sort of nettle stories.
We drink nettle tea and we writeon nettle paper.
So those sort of things withschools.
The school sweatshops were sopopular and grown ups kept
(44:41):
saying, do you do this withgrown ups?
I started doing it with grownups too.
We're always in heritageorganizations or, you know, as I
said, community gardening placesbotanic gardens, museums.
But, more and more people werecoming to me saying, will you
mentor me?
Or will you teach me?
Or wanting me to guest lectureon herbal medicine programs?
(45:05):
Where they felt like thefolklore and the legends were a
really vital, vibrant part oflearning about plants.
holistically and knowing allabout them.
I had an odd experience.
I got plagiarized quite a lot.
by a couple of people, and I wasquite hurt.
I felt like they'd seen that Ihad quite a niche area of work
(45:26):
and was getting quite a lot ofwork because I was working in
one specific area rather thanbroadly being a storyteller.
And pretty much had my workreplicated.
And I started off being quite.
Angry about this and upset and Idecided the best way to deal
with it was to kind of takeownership of it and that maybe
(45:47):
this was a sign I needed to stepup basically and just sort of
change my game slightly andembrace it and just go, okay.
You want me to teach you to dowhat I do.
I can't really teach you to dowhat I do.
This is my grandmother'sknowledge.
This is my grandfather'sknowledge.
This is my mum's knowledge.
(46:08):
This is 14 years of practice, aherbal medicine degree, a law
degree, a lot of travel, a lotof study.
You can't just do what I do andyou can't copy what I do, but I
can teach you enough to make.
you have ideas and be inspiredand then make it your own
journey and take it in your owndirection.
(46:30):
So I decided to trademarkmyself, which was a big step,
and make it Botanica FabulousSchool of Herbal Storytelling,
which is now a parallel Part ofmy storytelling world.
I'm taking that inspiration fromElizabeth Blackwell and The
Curious Herbal.
And I'm sharing the bits thatdidn't go into the book as The
(46:53):
Very Curious Herbal onlinecourse.
blend that you'll find in thebook, the layers of history,
folklore, fairy story, herbalmedicine, and a little bit of
something else.
I don't quite know what it is.
A little bit of sort ofnarrative and a personal journey
and inviting people to connect,I guess, that is woven into the
book.
(47:14):
And I've turned it into anonline course with audio
recordings.
Some films, some of it's curatedfrom other bits that I've filmed
on my tours, but some of it isnew films some written material,
some ways to work with plants,and some prompts to get out
there and engage with the plantsnear you, and create what I've
(47:36):
called a lorica.
materia botanica, a little bitlike the classic materia medica,
you know, that book full ofplant information.
But this is kind of more like,this is a seed that I found that
I want to grow into a tree oneday, or, you know, this is a
recipe the lady down the roadtold me to make with damsons,
(47:57):
or, this is a dried.
Flower I pressed between twopieces of paper and wrote a poem
about and bring it all together.
So the online course is toreflect that and they're looking
at different sort of areas ofplants They're self study, but
I'm always here to talk topeople and I talk to people a
lot on social media about whatthey're doing on the courses and
(48:19):
add elements and they're goingto grow over time.
So they're all on my website,which is Botanica Fabula.
Co uk but I'm still touring.
I'm in Hudson Valley as Imentioned next week doing
workshops in upstate New York.
And then I'm back to theNational Library of Scotland on
(48:39):
the 8th of February.
Yeah, so I'm still performing,still running workshops live,
still working with schools andmuseums.
That's always been a thing Ilove.
But I'm also creating onlinecourses and running slightly
longer workshops, where I'minviting really small numbers of
people to come and work quiteintensely on small blended
(49:00):
workshops that bring togethertraditional herbal techniques.
But, as part of a story, I'm notgoing to turn people out to do
my job for me.
But I'm hopefully going toinspire them to then go and
create art of their own, orwrite their own different form
(49:23):
of work.
And just bring plants.
And this connection into theirown work.
It's all there on my websitealongside the book.
There's films on there andthings people can tap into or
find out about the projects I'vecreated because, I've been
working a while and I'vecreated.
(49:43):
Bespoke packages for ethicalbusinesses looking to promote
products.
I've worked with a lot ofschools, a lot of online stuff.
I do all sorts.
I'm a self employed mum.
I want to make the world ahappy, plant loving place.
So if that sort of gels with meand people are friendly and
(50:07):
lovely and are interested inwhat I do, then I'm always happy
to collaborate and createsomething new.
Ashley (50:14):
I love the fact that it's like, that you don't have
to be one thing.
You can be a storyteller, youcan be an author, you can teach
courses, you can speak publicly.
I love the fact that it showspeople that You can be all of
the things as long as that'swhat you want.
You had mentioned your website.
Can you also mention wherepeople can find you on social
(50:35):
media?
Amanda (50:37):
Of course.
So, on Instagram, I am AmandaEdmiston.
That's E D M I S T O N.
Or, if you look up BotanicaFabula, so herbal stories in
Latin, basically BotanicaFabula.
You will find me on Instagramand if you write Amanda
(51:00):
Edmiston, Botanica Fabula, youwill no doubt find me on
Facebook.
I still like Facebook.
I love a Facebook group.
It does all the things, you cando videos and just like.
Switch it on when you're on awalk and go, Hey, look at this
tree.
This is where I am at themoment.
Really easily.
So I'm still very active onFacebook, Facebook and Insta are
(51:21):
my two big platforms at themoment.
I am on sub stack when I getback from the Hudson Valley, I'm
going to put more writing on mysub stack.
And so there is quite a lot ofpaywalled content on there.
Old films, old podcasts,episodes, recordings from live
workshops.
So my substack is the other one,but I'm on all the social media
(51:45):
platforms, honestly.
Here I am.
I'm starting off a conversationwith you saying we need that
community.
We need that connection and totalk to people are older than us
and find out about the plantsgrowing locally, but I confess,
I do love social media as it'sjust the connection with people
that share your passions, itmakes it really easy to use,
Ashley (52:07):
it's like to have those like minded conversations.
It isn't always as easy in ourreal life to, you know, grab a
tea or a coffee with somebodyand have that time to sit down
where it is kind of nice to havethat moment of like, Oh, I can
go on live and I can show youthis cool thing and share it
with you.
And then also maybe make a datedown the road to do coffee.
(52:28):
It's the best of both worlds.
Amanda (52:29):
It's the best.
Absolutely, and I love doingevents.
I mean, for grown ups, kids needthe in person sessions.
So, schools and you know, familysessions in museums really,
really help.
Children thrive on you beingthere in person, you hold their
engagement a lot more.
But adults, because I run my ownevents on Eventbrite sometimes,
(52:51):
or at the moment I'm doing amonthly book club with a medical
museum, but it means that peoplecan join us from around the
world.
And with my own events, so ifyou find me on social media
particularly You will spot thatI release an event online on
(53:12):
Eventbrite fairly regularlybecause I can record them.
And so if, you know, the kidsget sick or you have to work a
different shift or anything, youknow, life throws up one of the
things it does when you're agrown up you can tap back into
the recording for the.
week following the event.
So, you know, my next one is the13th of February and I'm doing A
(53:35):
Remedy for Valentine's Day, makeof that what you will, a Herbal
Storyteller's Guide toSeduction, A Remedy for
Valentine's Day.
So yeah, it means that, youknow, a couple of lovely people
who come to a lot of my eventsin Canada and in the United
States can make it along.
(53:56):
And it's not just people thatcan make it to Edinburgh or
wherever I am.
There's all sorts of ways youcan join in and, and connect in
my work.
Ashley (54:05):
I love that so much.
Amanda, thank you so much forhaving this conversation with me
today.
Amanda (54:10):
It's my absolute pleasure.
It's been so lovely talking toyou.
And I'm delighted as I say thatI found your podcast.
I've been listening to it in thecar all week.
It's been an absolute joy.
And I will, I will keeplistening in.
Ashley (54:25):
Oh, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of the
filled up cup podcast.
Don't forget to hit subscribeand leave a review.
If you like what you hear, youcan also connect with us at
filledupcup.Com.
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next
(54:47):
episode.
Welcome to the filled up cuppodcast.
We are a different kind of selfcare resource, one that has
nothing to do with bubble bathsand face masks and everything to
do with rediscovering yourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences, and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most
(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.
Ashley (00:30):
I'm very excited.
Today I have Amanda Edmonstonjoining me.
Amanda is the author of the TimeTraveler's Herbal Stories and
Recipes from the HistoricalApothecary Cabinet.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Amanda (00:44):
You're very welcome.
It's lovely to talk to you andto be invited on.
I've been really enjoying yourpodcast.
Ashley (00:50):
Oh, thank you so much.
Can you tell us a little bitabout the book?
Amanda (00:55):
Absolutely.
So it came about really becauseI've been what I call a herbal
storyteller, which is kind of, Iknitted my own job.
I made it up for about 14 yearssince my eldest daughter was
little and I needed to findsomething to do with myself.
(01:16):
I'd studied herbal medicine atcollege, but I didn't want to go
into clinical practice.
What I wanted to do, it turnedout, was sort of connect people
to plants in a naturalenvironment.
And Talk about how we've usedthese plants that we live with
(01:38):
all around us, even in cities ina way that made people excited
and interested and engaged withthem.
And so, because my mum's been astoryteller for 35 years now I
already I grew up with stories,you know, stories were an
incredibly important part ofevery aspect of my life from
(02:01):
fairy tales, ancientmythologies, legends, folklore,
and I knew that there wereplants in all those stories, but
other people didn't necessarilysee it.
And I guess I just have thiswhole thing about plants and
stories.
And.
The connection between them andI'm very aware because I work
(02:22):
with community groups acrossScotland and very fortunately
around the world.
Where I realized that this was acommon thread.
Everyone knew stories andeveryone knew or lived alongside
plants or when you mentionedplants wanted to know more.
So I started to weave in socialhistory as well.
(02:45):
I'd been doing this, I guess, asa workshop.
I'd been creating performancepieces.
It kind of felt natural for itto come together as a book.
And that's exactly what I do.
I explore stories.
folklore, community traditions,herbal medicine, plants that we
live alongside over a period ofhistory.
(03:08):
so that's what the book is aboutand kind of a little bit of my
own journey because there arelots of little excerpts from my
storytelling adventures and alittle bit of a biography woven
in there too.
Ashley (03:20):
I really love the fact that it ties all those things
together.
I think that.
We're always looking for thatconnection piece of learning new
things, but also seeing how wefit into it.
And I think sometimes withplants, I think we've created
this story that we tellourselves that, Oh, it's
complicated or, you know,talking about having a green
thumb or a brown thumb or thingslike this, that I think when we
(03:44):
bring it back down to these havebeen around forever, you're
probably utilizing them in waysthat you don't even realize.
And making it so that it issomething that they can feel
that connection to and feellike, Oh, maybe I can learn this
way and I'm not going to feelstupid, or I'm not going to feel
whatever to ask, and have thatplace where they can really feel
open to learning, I think is soneeded.
Amanda (04:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that goes into a lotof my work, is I want to
reassure people that they maybedon't realise they know a lot
about plants, But they do.
And, you know, at any givenmoment, you're probably wearing
two or three different plants orthe fabric of your house is made
(04:26):
of them.
And, you eat them even ifyou're, a massive carnivore and
you have a really meat andcarbohydrate kind of diet you're
probably eating wheat, you know,and the animal that you're
eating will have eaten a load ofplants and there will be plants.
It's all around you and in yourlife.
And I guess it's also aboutreassuring people that it's all
(04:48):
okay.
I feel like the further we getfrom that relationship the more
concerned people are, the morefear creaks into their
interactions with plants andthey feel like, Is it safe to
take this, herbal medicine?
Is it safe to you know, picksomething that I have passed in
(05:12):
the hedgerow or in my garden?
I feel like we need to, takeback that power to be able to
engage with plants when most ofthem are very benign, most of
them are really giving and notbe afraid.
So yeah, there's both of thosesort of elements are woven in.
Ashley (05:31):
Thinking about the fear aspect of it, we're not being
taught to feel safe to you knowgrab that flower and put it in
your tea or and again This hasbeen around for thousands of
years that it's like that is asafe option Doesn't mean that
other options aren't Things tobe explored or if you're
somebody who wants the door dashto come and bring your dinner,
(05:52):
you can still accompany it withlike seasoning from your garden
or things like that.
It's just we can have the bestof both worlds.
Amanda (05:59):
Absolutely, and I think that's really important.
I mean, even though I've studiedherbal medicine, even though I
use plants all the time I usethem medicinally, I use them
just in cooking, all kinds ofways, I still struggle sometimes
if I'm taking herbal medicine onprescription, for example, to
(06:21):
drink enough tea.
And it wasn't until I wasworking with another friend of
mine, another herbalist, whoI've collaborated with on one of
the courses I've been writingrecently.
And she said to me, Why don'tyou just mix the herbs that you
want to take for medicine inwith your usual cup of tea?
(06:44):
Okay, I tend to prefer a greentea anyway.
I can buy that loosely and I'mjust like, I don't know because
in the West we have a real fearof tea and coffee because it's
caffeinated and we immediatelythink bad, bad, bad, you know.
But actually the Traditionalstory that goes with green tea
(07:07):
is all about health and wellbeing, you know, it's a
beautiful Chinese story and itsplace as a spiritual Healing lee
is very important.
It's a pivotal story And she'sright.
She's scottish indonesian.
She's currently Workingnomadically she's out in
(07:28):
Malaysia, I think at the momentand she's like, I have, I've
been fortunate enough to tellstories in China.
I know for well that in the sortof native home or the places
where this plant is cherishedmost, they don't fear it in the
same way that we do in the West.
And that's maybe because theyadd its reverence still, you
(07:49):
know, it's still seen as given abit more importance.
We don't just buy it off thegrocery shelf.
Part of that then becomesinfused with a bit of fear and
so now I need to take my nettlesfor their ability to boost your
iron levels and stop you beinglow in vitamins I'm currently
taking rose petals in my herbaltea prescription because they're
(08:12):
really restorative to the heart.
They're really soothing andbeneficial.
There's some lemon balm, Ithink, which is again a nice
uplifting mood enhancing herb.
But now instead of thinking, Oh,I can't drink my herbal tea.
I'm just adding a few of thoseherbs in with my cup of green
(08:35):
tea.
It's that simple, you know, offthe shelf, supermarket, green
tea, but with some herbs mixedin, so the herbs keep going, or
as you say, once spring arriveshere, what I love nothing more
than like grabbing a few leavesas I pass, you know, I've got a
dog, so I'm out walking, myspaniel and I grab a few leaves
(08:58):
and I just Pop them on top of asalad.
Food doesn't always have to befancy, but plants and natural
herbs that we can get for free.
I feel that's one of the reasonsthat we fear them a bit as well.
You know, big companies, bigindustries would quite like us
to pay for everything ratherthan think that we could feed
ourselves or heal ourselves.
(09:20):
without giving them money.
So, you know, a little bit freeherbal enhancement goes a long
way.
Ashley (09:29):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
I think it's just getting backto who we are as ourselves and
just really leaning into it'sokay to trust ourselves.
Amanda (09:37):
Absolutely.
And we all have, busy lives andwe don't always have time to do
everything we would like to.
I would love to have a smallholding and have chickens and
grow all my own vegetables andall my own herbs and have a
beautiful apothecary full oftinctures.
The reality of that.
is I would find that incrediblyhard to work alongside two
(10:01):
children and the dog and myhusband who's also self employed
and, you know, elderly parentsin different parts of the
country and all those otherthings, bills to pay.
And I do have a beautiful herbalcabinet full of things that I've
picked for free, but I don'thave the time at the moment or
(10:21):
the energy to have.
Everything.
And I think we quite often feelit has to be perfect before we
can do it.
And it doesn't.
You can just do a little bit.
And a little bit can make somuch difference to your life,
you know.
I think stepping away from theall or nothing approach quite
often frees up quite a lot oftime and energy and gets rid of
(10:45):
the guilt.
Ashley (10:47):
Agreed.
And there is no perfect time.
Like nobody's going to pass us aboatload of money and say, do
whatever you want with it.
I wish that they would, but it'sjust, it's highly unlikely that
that will be the case.
So I do think it is, it's likedipping your toe in and just
seeing what works for you andwhat doesn't.
And if somebody was like, all ofthat sounds great, but I don't
(11:08):
know where to start.
What is some simple ways thatyou can kind of.
Start researching or startgetting interested in herbalism
in your day to day life.
Amanda (11:18):
Well, I think really because I love stories, I've
always said that even reading astory where, or reading, I don't
know, a sort of magazine articleor anything, anything simple
that you can engage with helps.
Take your mind and your mindsetinto the place where it becomes
easy to access.
(11:39):
I guess my book doesn't comewith a massive plant ID section.
If you go into any bookstore, orlook at, you know, any of the
online retailers, you will findbeautiful, incredibly well
written plant ID books, relevantto where you live.
(12:00):
And so there's no point in merepeating that.
I do, however, put in Latinnames so that people We call
plants different things indifferent places, so that people
can be sure of what I'm talkingabout.
So I think get yourself a goodplant ID book, if you're not a
book person or you're travelinga lot, there are really good
(12:21):
plant ID apps.
double check, you know whereyou're going.
So if it's a plant, I work withschools a lot.
And I always say to the kids,they go, what's this?
What's this?
And I say, this family of plantsall looks incredibly similar.
And a couple of them are bighitting poisons.
So we're not going to look atthose, but there are plants like
(12:43):
a dandelion which grows widelyacross a lot of countries in the
world, or a nettle, most of ushave nettles where all the near
relatives.
that look similar are also nontoxic.
So start small with the thingsthat are hard to get wrong, you
know?
(13:04):
Get yourself a plant ID app or areally good book or both, double
check and go and start lookingat them and then smell them, if
you know, They're definitelyedible.
Get a really good basicforager's guide saying this is
edible, don't take it if you'vegot this profound health
(13:25):
condition and start there.
Start small.
And find something.
I mean, I feel like the really,the heavy duty Scientific,
accurate, really factual stuffis vital.
But one of the reasons I wantedto write my book was because
when I work in museums orbotanic gardens, I'm super aware
(13:48):
that people are put off by thatreally sort of academic,
heavyweight, approach.
I know that if I talk about themusing rose hips that they found
in the garden, They don't feelput off by that.
If it's in a story, they want togo and do that, whereas if
they've read a big, you know,herbal medical book and the
(14:09):
heavyweight plant ID book,they're like, they're put off by
the volume of knowledge, whereasif they've heard a story about,
you know fairies and fabulousCreatures that live in lochs or,
up mountains and that feelseasier to relate to, I guess
it's lighter, it lights up yourbrain in a different way.
(14:30):
So I guess start by knowing whatyou're looking for.
Start small, maybe ask your,family, maybe ask older people
around you in your neighborhoodand sort of say, what plants?
do you recognize around here?
And there will be berries inhedgerows.
Older people in their maybe 70sand 80s remember picking when
(14:51):
they were children and using.
Or maybe, you remember yourself.
I certainly went picking berrieswith my mum when I was little
still.
So start with those reallysimple things and then build on
it.
Ashley (15:03):
Well, and I think that talking to people, especially
our elders, is something that Idon't know whether the internet
has moved us away from, but it'ssuch a valuable resource, not
just It's not necessarily tolearn about, you know, skills
that we want, but just all ofit, just having that connection
of like this person has beenaround for so long.
(15:24):
They know all of these things.
And again, like what you'resaying when you read a super
scientific book, you're likeone, either this is probably
boring or two, it can be so muchthat you're like, I'm never
going to learn this.
It's never going to stay in myhead and it becomes this
intimidating practice where it'slike, if you can sit down and
just.
read something that does feelmore relatable or is the story
(15:47):
is sent to you in a way thatit's like digestible, but it
doesn't make you feel like I'mnot going to understand this or
I'm, you know, dumb or justfeeling like you're going to
embarrass yourself.
And I think that there's so muchfear.
of admitting that you don't knowstuff or admitting that you want
to learn stuff instead of thisassumption that we have to know
it all and be all of the thingsthat I think that I totally
(16:10):
agree with you.
Having a story that's sent to usin a digestible form, whether
it's about fairies or whetherit's about something that's
like, Hey, this is what I wentthrough.
Maybe it'll work for you.
I think is so much better thanjust having it in a science
form.
And again, there's some peoplethat that side of their brain,
they might like that better.
But again, best of both worldsto try to find something that
(16:31):
works for you to spark thatinterest.
Amanda (16:35):
Absolutely.
And I love that you used theword intimidating.
I think that it does becomeintimidating.
And I've said to people before,we've told these stories about
how we use plants for thousandsand thousands of years, and
people will remember a 5000 yearold story about a phoenix.
Like Creature, a Bennu in Egyptthat uses frankincense to help
(16:59):
restore its body.
They won't read the latest free700 page research document from
the University of Mumbai,talking about how frankincense
facilitates cell renewal.
They'll remember the phoenix.
A child will remember thephoenix.
You're going to need a sciencedegree before you can even
handle a heavyweight medical.
(17:22):
Research document.
And that lost intergenerationalknowledge and oh, I mean the
internet kind of makes us allinstant experts, doesn't it?
If you follow herbalists, whichobviously I do, but a lot of
people give you a huge body ofinformation and it's quite easy
to feel like this is not for meor, you've been handed all the
(17:46):
information all at once.
I think that, you know, weforget the vital sort of element
of communication that we'veshared with.
People around us for a very longtime where you get a tiny bit of
information and then you buildon that.
And then if you want to go andexplore and research more, it
builds up and up and up ratherthan just getting all dropped in
(18:09):
front of you.
I think bite sized amounts italso makes it more accessible.
It stops alienating people, it,Stops there being that fear
factor again, that, you know,that we started off talking
about, which for me, I thinkit's really important.
I think we need to feel likeplants are a normal, easy,
(18:30):
accessible, friendly, that wecan get out there and enjoy
them.
And that there's no sense wehave to do it properly all the
time,
Ashley (18:39):
well, and that each person's practice can be
different.
If you are, say, followingdifferent herbalists or you're
picking up different books, toknow like, I can take this
little piece from this and thislittle piece from that.
I love that storytelling is sucha big part of your book.
When you were researching anddeciding to actually publish,
was there a favorite story thatyou wanted to make sure you
(19:01):
definitely shared with theworld?
Amanda (19:03):
There were two or three.
So I started.
When I was commissioned to writethe book, the lovely
commissioning editor that phonedme up, I, honestly, I was that
person that wanted to write abook when they were a kid, and I
always read these how to be awriter columns, and I'd be like,
oh, you're meant to write asynopsis, and you've got to send
it off to a load of publishers,and everyone's always like, you
(19:26):
get turned down by 60 odd peoplebefore you get a book deal, and
I am the lucky person who gotphoned up by someone who went, I
really love you what you do.
Can you write a book?
And I went, yes.
And she went, great.
What are you going to writeabout?
And I'm like okay.
I want to do what I do onlineand in my storytelling sessions.
(19:48):
But turn it into a book.
And she's like, brilliant.
I love what you do online.
Right.
Do that.
So fabulous.
But the project I've beenworking on when.
The editor made that call wascalled the very curious herbal
project and I'd been lookinginto the life of an incredible
(20:09):
pioneering Scots woman who wasborn in Aberdeen in Scotland,
where I grew up.
was born as well ElizabethBlackwell.
And in 1737, she became thefirst woman to publish a herbal.
She eloped with a man whobasically turned out to be not
(20:30):
great.
He spent all her money.
And left her penniless with achild.
And she was, you know, middleclass and educated.
And instead of doing what Iwould have done if I'd been in
her shoes, I'll be honest.
Which is leaving London with mychild and going back to my mum
and dad's.
She decided she would Startdrawing the plants in the
(20:54):
Botanic Gardens, Chelsea PhysicGarden, near where she lived to
support herself and her childand ultimately, bless her, pay
off her husband's debts and gethim out of debtor's prison.
But she had this wonderful storyand for years academics have
dismissed her work by sayingthat her husband wrote all the
words, all the bits of medicalknowledge about plants from
(21:17):
prison.
And I was just like, this is notpossible.
So I went down to Chelsea PhysicGarden and I spoke to some
people there.
I worked with a couple ofwonderful heritage librarians, a
wonderful librarian up inAberdeen was super helpful.
And the library staff at theRoyal College of Physicians and
Surgeons in Glasgow werewonderful.
(21:39):
I didn't find any solidevidence.
I just threw it out there thatthis was probably rubbish.
There were enough people saying,this is unlikely to have
happened.
What's more likely to havehappened is she was working with
apothecaries in this herb gardendrawing plants.
She would have had access tobooks.
We know she was very educatedfor a woman in those days.
(22:02):
And there's no evidence tosuggest the husband wrote it.
Another wonderful herbalist thatI know who has written a lot
about women healers in history,Elizabeth Brooke, said that she
had spotted evidence thatElizabeth Blackwell went to
weekend workshops and learnedabout midwifery from some of the
leading practitioners of theday.
So I built up this picture.
(22:22):
It's wonderful, inspiring woman.
I thought I would write anentire book, not about her, but
with elements of her life woventhrough it and elements of my
own journey, but about theplants that she wrote and wrote
about and illustrated.
Because she wrote and she drewand wrote about an amazing 500
(22:46):
plants at a time when Britainwas experiencing the end of the
witch trials.
Scotland was notorious forburning more witches than nearly
anywhere else.
And medicine was becoming moreand more regulated.
And so knowledge was beingshifted, you know, the power
(23:06):
struggle was shifting who heldknowledge about how to heal.
our autonomy over our ownhealth.
was starting to be lost.
But also they were horrendousempirical white middle aged men
with a lot of money going intoother people's countries and
making off with their plants.
But the shift was happening sothat she drew Coco.
(23:29):
When it had just arrived in thecountry, she drew a tamarind and
turmeric and plants thatwould've been seen as exotic.
She drew an illustrated lemonsand oranges before they were
spotted by James Lund as beingvital to prevent scurvy on long
voyages.
(23:50):
So, you know, she was.
writing about nettles,dandelions, chickweed, oak
trees, simple everyday nativeplants that would have been here
for thousands of years, but shewas also drawing the plants that
were just arriving.
And she sold this bookepisodically so that she could
keep earn a living for herselfand her child.
(24:12):
So she kind of made theknowledge accessible to a lot of
people.
So clearly, you know, picking upon what we've been talking about
already, this kind of resonatedwith me a lot.
I wanted to tell her story, butwhen Lizzie approached me, the
editor from David and Charles toask about me writing a book, I
felt that there were so manyother stories that I wanted to
(24:34):
tell.
I wanted to tell one of mygrandfather's.
Stories that he told me when Iwas really little about a woman
turned to stone.
He was a stone carver, asculptor near my hometown.
I wanted to tell other storiesand they were nearly all about
people that had traveled to orfrom Scotland.
It's all connected back upreally to the place I live and
(24:57):
the place I'm most familiar withand the plants I know, but yeah,
there were a couple of realfamily treasures.
That had to go into the book,but as you can probably tell by
the amount of passion and howlong that bit of chat has been
Elizabeth Blackwell was reallyimportant for me to get in
there.
Ashley (25:13):
Anything that brings people so much passion that they
just have to share it.
I think those are the thingsthat we resignate with so much.
And I think we are all cravingauthenticity so much that
finding those real stories andfinding people's passion, I
think it lights up our souls ina way that is so needed and
(25:34):
listening to you talk about her.
I just also get so frustratedbecause it's like, we think
we've come so far and we pushthat needle of women's rights so
much further.
And then you really think aboutit and we really haven't.
And a lot of those things thatshe dealt with are things that
in 2023 2024 are very, veryrelevant, especially when it
(25:54):
comes to autonomy.
Not so much in Canada yet, but Iknow in the U.
S.
there basically got rolled back30 years in women's health care.
And in education, I feel like itis still very much the idea that
we should just be pretty and sitin the corner and that men
should Do whatever they're goingto do I think it's still this
idea that they don't want womento be seen as equals and that we
(26:17):
can't be, better than in certainindustries that it really is
still that power struggle that Ithink good for her for being
able to be brave enough to beThat way back then and shame on
anybody who just thought ahusband was going to be the one
to do all of these things likeit's just, it's so frustrating,
(26:38):
but also so empowering to knowthat women have pushed through
these boundaries and not hadthat fear and just said, you
know, I'm going to do all of thethings because we really only
have one life to live.
It's getting rid of that fearand just saying, I'm going to do
this, whether people feelcomfortable with it or not.
Amanda (26:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I mean, if you take on boardthat in London in 1730s, women,
unless you were very poor andthere were certain jobs
inevitably that women ended updoing, but middle class,
Educated women did not work.
And not only that, but botanyand the study of plants was seen
(27:19):
as an absolute no-go area.
Another 60 years later, MaryWalston Craft, who wrote the
Vindication of Women was toldoff by the church for saying
women should study botany.
He said it was absolutelyappalling behavior for women to
be thinking about plants and thereproductive system.
I was just like, okay, you know,wandering around pregnant, but
(27:42):
whatever you do, don't thinkabout reproduction, I do think
it really does it staysirrelevant people say, you know,
is it still relevant and I'mlike Absolutely.
Because we are still wadingthrough those layers of
restraint and having ourautonomy taken away from us.
And a little bit of a parallelthere with Canada and the US and
(28:05):
women's rights.
You know, the difference there.
In her day, in Scotland, whenyou got married, Women were
allowed to keep their own money.
In England, they had curvature.
So if you got married, all yourmoney became your husband's.
And so he had right of yourabsolutely everything.
And one of the things that's.
(28:25):
It's sort of quite important inthe early stages of Elizabeth
Blackwell's adult life is thateven though she gets married and
to a man she had to elope.
The family were not for amarrying Alexander Blackwell.
He was.
definitely already seen as a bitof a problem.
He came from a wealthy family,but she clearly kept hold of her
(28:47):
money.
I mean, she clearly tried tobail him out quite a lot, but
she was already a strong womanwho was acting with a degree of
autonomy over a number of areasin her life before she even
decides to make this quiterevolutionary step of getting
out there and doing something.
previously unheard of, it's areally great story about
(29:09):
resilience, but also about howhistory keeps being relevant and
relatable.
Do you know, I mean, the more Ihave worked with her story and
the plants that she'd looked at,it was so relatable because,
there were parallels about howI'd designed and created herbal
storytelling as a single mumwith my first child.
(29:32):
Incidentally, in the same gardenthat Elizabeth Blackwell wrote
her herbal.
So it keeps being relevant.
And I think that's one of thevital things about stories and
about social.
History that we shouldn'tdismiss them.
We have such a fast turnover ofculture these days, and news,
and social media that we forgetsometimes how vital.
(29:58):
Incredibly important elementsthe old stuff still has.
Ashley (30:02):
As we age, we sort of realize like, hey, I still have
value.
Like, I still know all of thethings where I think when you're
younger, I feel like.
You have this age in your headand you're like, that's an old
person.
And then once you reach that,you're like, that's a very young
person.
And so I feel like it is justthat wisdom of sharing our
stories and sharing ourconnections.
(30:22):
I think it's amazing that we'reable to have online connections
and meet people that you wouldnever meet, but it's also having
just that connection in yourlife.
I feel like.
Picking up the phone andactually using it to talk to
people instead of textingpeople.
Sometimes it's still creatingthat connection within your life
that is going to build value.
It's talking to elderly familymembers.
It's doing your research andsaying like, in your day, what
(30:44):
was school like?
What were relationships like?
And just, I think everygeneration sometimes has the
idea that it's just us.
Like we've never gone throughthis.
And I found even as my daughter,when she was in her middle
school ages, and she was havingfights with other girls.
She was like, this didn't happenwhen you were younger.
And I'm like, it did.
And it happened for my mom andso on.
(31:05):
And it's a cycle that repeats.
And I think sometimes when weget too in our egos or just not
educated enough in thoserelationships and having those
conversations, but it's like, wedo realize that we're more like
than different and that we needto build on those likenesses so
that we can see what worked foryou.
What should I try and just.
not feel like we have to be onthis little island alone doing
(31:28):
all of the things and having allof the knowledge that it's
really beautiful to look backand be like, there were these,
ball busting women that werebrave in their day and doing
things that nobody else haddone.
It almost gives us permission tobe like, I'm going to try to
take this class, or I'm going toread this book, or I'm going to
say no to this job.
Or this date or this whateveryou're telling yourself that you
(31:51):
should be doing and just takethose chances.
Amanda (31:55):
Actually you've just reminded me of something really
important you touched uponearlier, which is if you have
those conversations and thosemoments, which as mothers that
we do a lot of, or just actuallyas older people, maybe talking
to people of saying, someonesays, oh, you know, I've got
this thing going wrong with mybody, and if someone else has
(32:16):
been through that experience andfound something that helped then
you have that autonomy of yourown health.
You don't necessarily have to goto a doctor or into a pharmacy
and buy something that justmasks the symptoms.
You maybe will find somethingreally simple on this occasion.
I use a blend of.
(32:36):
obviously go to the doctors forthe big stuff.
But there are some things thatit's cheaper, easier, quicker to
use that, or, you know, a friendwill say this is, I had
something really similar.
Have you tried this?
You're like, Oh, why did I neverthink of this before?
This is wonderful.
It's a really, really valuablething that we need to keep and
(32:59):
build on really in all ourlives, I guess.
Ashley (33:02):
It's keeping things accessible.
If you know, Simple things thatcould help you with, you know,
improving your sleep, improvingyour stress.
Family doctors are rare to findlike a regular GP that you would
go to about things that weren'tlike a big emergency.
And sometimes if you don't haveone, it can take you five to 10
years to be able to find aregular doctor to see.
(33:24):
It's a really big problem rightnow and then they're trying to
kind of change it so that wehave online doctors, but again,
it's kind of a complicated thingbecause in Canada, essentially
our health care is supposed tobe free.
So the online doctors are now away to introduce a paid version,
pros and cons to both.
And then if you do end up havingsomething severe enough that you
(33:47):
have to go to emergency there'slike staffing issues and
emergency room wait could be onaverage like 10 to 12 hours to
be able to get back in to beseen.
So again, A lot of people eitherdon't wait and then run into
different issues or that onceyou even get in, it's so slammed
and so busy that they're missingthings and it's very broken
(34:09):
right now.
So it's always nice, I think, tohave different options, not to
say don't ever go to the doctor,maybe have this as an option
first, so that if you can't getinto a doctor or you don't have
walk in clinics where you live,then it isn't something where
you have to feel like alone andscared.
It's something where you cankind of take back some of that
fear and go, let's just see ifthis is what works for me.
(34:33):
Because it does feel likethere's not a ton of options
depending on what ailment you'retrying to cure.
Amanda (34:40):
we have a less dramatic, but we're also struggling with
shortage of doctors in healthservice at the moment.
My mum, I know, for example,lives in Highest Village in
Scotland.
It's quite remote, it gets cutoff quite easily by bad weather,
but they don't have a villagedoctor anymore.
So she's got to travel to go tothe doctor.
(35:02):
There are some things that youwill travel to go and see a
doctor for, if you are luckyenough to have a family doctor.
There are some things I mean, Iknow from speaking to friends
who are nurses and have workedin emergency rooms that there
are people that turn up inemergency rooms with things that
you think, Why on earth haveyou, come all this way for
(35:23):
something that's not anemergency?
And at which point, yeah, ifyou've got a few simple things
you can turn to at home or maybeyou have friends or books and
you're confident enough to beable to explore some other
options, you maybe save yourselfa load of money, a load of time,
can treat something that nobodyelse would have noticed.
(35:45):
And take back that autonomy andI think it probably also then
completely boosts your selfconfidence and how you value
yourself, how you value yourhealth.
And then, if you can help lookafter people around you, then
That's an added bonus.
You don't necessarily need to bea fully qualified clinical
herbalist, but a few simplethings that you can turn to make
(36:10):
a world of difference.
Ashley (36:11):
Maybe once you start really doing that research,
maybe you find that you doactually have a registered
herbalist in your area.
I feel like if we don't step outof our comfort zone or step out
of the little box that wecreated for ourselves, there's a
whole big world out there thatthere are a lot of services that
you can lean into and get help.
Amanda (36:30):
Absolutely.
And I think we've also in a lotof Western cultures stopped
treating ourselves in apreventative way.
We firefight and our healthservices firefight their way
through those dramatic, scaryyou know, life affecting
problems.
But there's so much more that wecan do just to prevent us.
(36:52):
Suffering from dreadful thingsin the first place, or even
things like talking a little bitabout having a cold or a bit of
a bunged up nose.
I have techniques, I have herbsin the cupboard, I have
essential oils, I have variousdifferent things that I can use
that are plant based that willmake me recover quicker and not
(37:12):
suffer as badly.
And it's that simple.
It's stopping, you're being ableto take preventative steps that
then stop you having to go toemergency room or go to a
doctor.
And as you say, you can do apiecemeal approach.
I'm not going to suggest thatyou avoid going to the doctor if
you've broken a limb or you'vegot something life threatening,
(37:33):
you pull all the sources in,don't you, to help you build a
solution.
Yeah, absolutely.
But definitely multifaceted isthe way to go.
And I think, yeah, there are,there are likely to be good
herbalists near most people inthe world, I would imagine.
I think most of us will havesomeone that we can access that
(37:55):
will know a bit more if we feellike plants may have an answer,
but we don't have the knowledgeor resources to be able to work
on our own.
Ashley (38:03):
The great thing is like you said, we do most likely all
have them in our community.
And then that's also where theinternet comes in, that it has
sort of made this like bigcommunity.
So if you say, find somebody andthey're not local to you, you
can still talk to them.
You can still reach out to them.
You could still potentially taketheir classes and workshops like
what you offer and create yourown community, wherever that may
(38:26):
be.
Amanda (38:28):
Yeah, and also the internet allows us to see all
kinds of wonderful connectionsthat we may not have noticed.
I had a lovely woman in one ofmy workshops in Edinburgh just
before Christmas.
And she was studying sort ofherbs and ethnobotany kind of
direction.
So a sort of anthropologicalview of herbal medicine
(38:51):
alongside a herbal medicinestudies.
She told me where she was fromin the States and she'd been
traveling and I said, oh,actually, I think you are
possibly near enough to myfriend Erica, this is her herbal
practice.
You should probably give her achance.
She went, that's funny.
How do you know Erica?
And I said, well, we studied atcollege together.
(39:12):
And she went, she gave me a listof people I should look up in
Scotland when I was visiting andone of them recommended I come
and see you.
And I was just like, okay,that's really peculiar.
You know, I've got an audienceof people I'm working with.
And someone in the audiencewent, I'm really interested in
what you do.
(39:32):
And then it turned out we knew aherbalist in common somewhere
thousands of miles away.
And so it is a great community.
There are governing bodies, ifyou like, that ensure that
people have appropriatequalifications and appropriate
levels of knowledge and skilland work safely.
So if that's a concern, you canmake sure that you seek out
(39:54):
people who are, really havereally good credentials.
But yeah, also, but the internetis wonderful for that.
You can check things out.
And also you make these.
wonderful community connectionswith this wider community, which
is really exciting.
So I love that combination ofthe small, but also the
(40:15):
expansive and how inclusive andaccessible it makes everything.
Ashley (40:20):
I think that it is so funny how, again, it does become
that small world of like, howdid they even know me?
And how do I even recommend themthat it, it does become like
like minded people sometimesfeel like, I don't know who to
talk to, or there's nobody in mylife that has the same interest
or whatever.
So it can be like, I can find mypeople outside of my immediate
(40:42):
friend group if that's needed,and I just think it's really
beautiful that as bad as theinternet can be at times, there
really is that positive side ofit, of that building
connections, of seeking outpeople, and being like, I'm not
alone in this, or I'm not weirdto think this way.
I do like what you said to is tomake sure because there is a lot
of misinformation online to lookfor the governing groups of
(41:06):
things so that you are.
Not just taking any advice, butagain, from people that you can
kind of back up that they'reknowledgeable, especially if
you're still learning.
Amanda (41:14):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
but then also not to dismiss thewhole idea of saying that
conversation with people who'veexperienced it, who may say to
you, yeah, I went, oh, thisperson who's wonderful.
There were a lot ofopportunities to tie it all up
out there and learn in differentways, and it's quite exciting, I
mean, talking about community,one of the reasons the book came
around, as I said, is becausethe commissioning editor had
(41:36):
seen my online stuff, butreally, again, I've got bigger
social media pages andfollowing, but my tiny thing.
Facebook group.
You can join it if anyone wantsto listening.
It's called BotanicaFabulousness, it's kind of like
Botanica Fabulous School ofHerbal Storytelling.
(41:56):
It's something I'm developingalong with online courses, not
to go down the like purelymedical route, but to look at
those elements of folklore andstories and a little bit of the
medicine, a little bit of thesocial history that kind of
engage you with plants and drawyou in.
But that group where we chatabout the courses and what we're
(42:18):
doing on that, because they'reall remote, you can just follow
them in your own time.
But that group is incredible.
That's where the commissioningeditor saw me.
That group involves peoplehaving really good
conversations, sometimes off toone side, meeting up with
friends.
It's developed a community, buta worldwide community, of, a few
(42:39):
hundred people that reallyconnect over this.
And so I think the communitything is life changing.
It's been absolutely wonderful.
And what would we have donethrough COVID without, our
online communities?
I feel like there are peoplethat have come along to my
workshops and that I've seen atevents now for years that feel
like old friends.
(43:01):
I had a lovely woman come up tome in one workshop and say, I
hope you don't feel like I'mstalking you.
I genuinely come to everything.
And I'm like, no, it's so lovelyto see you, you know, honestly,
I'm really pleased to seepeople, it really does feel
like, I have great friends, butwe're friends because we like
the same writer or they'refriends because our children are
(43:22):
the same age, or we've knowneach other since childhood, but
I also have this Wonderfulcommunity now of crazy plant
people.
Basically we all wander aroundgoing, Oh, have you tried this?
And like, Oh, look at this niceplant.
And I'm like, that makes mehappy.
It's all about community.
I think that's where I'm goingwith that.
Ashley (43:44):
That is so true.
Now I know that you had kind oftouched on it, the botanica
fabula.
You are doing online workshopsand in person as well can you
let us know a little bit aboutthe services or what that would
look like?
Amanda (43:58):
Sure.
So I work in two ways.
One is what I've done for thepast nearly 15 years which is as
a herbal storyteller.
So I go out and I createperformance pieces for say
museums, heritage organizations,botanic gardens, work with
(44:18):
schools a lot.
Usually under the guise ofherbal magic and potent potions,
but I do a wonderful Victoriansworkshop, for example, looking
at Britain in the Victorian era,or I do One all about nettles,
which is sort of nettle stories.
We drink nettle tea and we writeon nettle paper.
So those sort of things withschools.
The school sweatshops were sopopular and grown ups kept
(44:41):
saying, do you do this withgrown ups?
I started doing it with grownups too.
We're always in heritageorganizations or, you know, as I
said, community gardening placesbotanic gardens, museums.
But, more and more people werecoming to me saying, will you
mentor me?
Or will you teach me?
Or wanting me to guest lectureon herbal medicine programs?
(45:05):
Where they felt like thefolklore and the legends were a
really vital, vibrant part oflearning about plants.
holistically and knowing allabout them.
I had an odd experience.
I got plagiarized quite a lot.
by a couple of people, and I wasquite hurt.
I felt like they'd seen that Ihad quite a niche area of work
(45:26):
and was getting quite a lot ofwork because I was working in
one specific area rather thanbroadly being a storyteller.
And pretty much had my workreplicated.
And I started off being quite.
Angry about this and upset and Idecided the best way to deal
with it was to kind of takeownership of it and that maybe
(45:47):
this was a sign I needed to stepup basically and just sort of
change my game slightly andembrace it and just go, okay.
You want me to teach you to dowhat I do.
I can't really teach you to dowhat I do.
This is my grandmother'sknowledge.
This is my grandfather'sknowledge.
This is my mum's knowledge.
(46:08):
This is 14 years of practice, aherbal medicine degree, a law
degree, a lot of travel, a lotof study.
You can't just do what I do andyou can't copy what I do, but I
can teach you enough to make.
you have ideas and be inspiredand then make it your own
journey and take it in your owndirection.
(46:30):
So I decided to trademarkmyself, which was a big step,
and make it Botanica FabulousSchool of Herbal Storytelling,
which is now a parallel Part ofmy storytelling world.
I'm taking that inspiration fromElizabeth Blackwell and The
Curious Herbal.
And I'm sharing the bits thatdidn't go into the book as The
(46:53):
Very Curious Herbal onlinecourse.
blend that you'll find in thebook, the layers of history,
folklore, fairy story, herbalmedicine, and a little bit of
something else.
I don't quite know what it is.
A little bit of sort ofnarrative and a personal journey
and inviting people to connect,I guess, that is woven into the
book.
(47:14):
And I've turned it into anonline course with audio
recordings.
Some films, some of it's curatedfrom other bits that I've filmed
on my tours, but some of it isnew films some written material,
some ways to work with plants,and some prompts to get out
there and engage with the plantsnear you, and create what I've
(47:36):
called a lorica.
materia botanica, a little bitlike the classic materia medica,
you know, that book full ofplant information.
But this is kind of more like,this is a seed that I found that
I want to grow into a tree oneday, or, you know, this is a
recipe the lady down the roadtold me to make with damsons,
(47:57):
or, this is a dried.
Flower I pressed between twopieces of paper and wrote a poem
about and bring it all together.
So the online course is toreflect that and they're looking
at different sort of areas ofplants They're self study, but
I'm always here to talk topeople and I talk to people a
lot on social media about whatthey're doing on the courses and
(48:19):
add elements and they're goingto grow over time.
So they're all on my website,which is Botanica Fabula.
Co uk but I'm still touring.
I'm in Hudson Valley as Imentioned next week doing
workshops in upstate New York.
And then I'm back to theNational Library of Scotland on
(48:39):
the 8th of February.
Yeah, so I'm still performing,still running workshops live,
still working with schools andmuseums.
That's always been a thing Ilove.
But I'm also creating onlinecourses and running slightly
longer workshops, where I'minviting really small numbers of
people to come and work quiteintensely on small blended
(49:00):
workshops that bring togethertraditional herbal techniques.
But, as part of a story, I'm notgoing to turn people out to do
my job for me.
But I'm hopefully going toinspire them to then go and
create art of their own, orwrite their own different form
(49:23):
of work.
And just bring plants.
And this connection into theirown work.
It's all there on my websitealongside the book.
There's films on there andthings people can tap into or
find out about the projects I'vecreated because, I've been
working a while and I'vecreated.
(49:43):
Bespoke packages for ethicalbusinesses looking to promote
products.
I've worked with a lot ofschools, a lot of online stuff.
I do all sorts.
I'm a self employed mum.
I want to make the world ahappy, plant loving place.
So if that sort of gels with meand people are friendly and
(50:07):
lovely and are interested inwhat I do, then I'm always happy
to collaborate and createsomething new.
Ashley (50:14):
I love the fact that it's like, that you don't have
to be one thing.
You can be a storyteller, youcan be an author, you can teach
courses, you can speak publicly.
I love the fact that it showspeople that You can be all of
the things as long as that'swhat you want.
You had mentioned your website.
Can you also mention wherepeople can find you on social
(50:35):
media?
Amanda (50:37):
Of course.
So, on Instagram, I am AmandaEdmiston.
That's E D M I S T O N.
Or, if you look up BotanicaFabula, so herbal stories in
Latin, basically BotanicaFabula.
You will find me on Instagramand if you write Amanda
(51:00):
Edmiston, Botanica Fabula, youwill no doubt find me on
Facebook.
I still like Facebook.
I love a Facebook group.
It does all the things, you cando videos and just like.
Switch it on when you're on awalk and go, Hey, look at this
tree.
This is where I am at themoment.
Really easily.
So I'm still very active onFacebook, Facebook and Insta are
(51:21):
my two big platforms at themoment.
I am on sub stack when I getback from the Hudson Valley, I'm
going to put more writing on mysub stack.
And so there is quite a lot ofpaywalled content on there.
Old films, old podcasts,episodes, recordings from live
workshops.
So my substack is the other one,but I'm on all the social media
(51:45):
platforms, honestly.
Here I am.
I'm starting off a conversationwith you saying we need that
community.
We need that connection and totalk to people are older than us
and find out about the plantsgrowing locally, but I confess,
I do love social media as it'sjust the connection with people
that share your passions, itmakes it really easy to use,
Ashley (52:07):
it's like to have those like minded conversations.
It isn't always as easy in ourreal life to, you know, grab a
tea or a coffee with somebodyand have that time to sit down
where it is kind of nice to havethat moment of like, Oh, I can
go on live and I can show youthis cool thing and share it
with you.
And then also maybe make a datedown the road to do coffee.
(52:28):
It's the best of both worlds.
Amanda (52:29):
It's the best.
Absolutely, and I love doingevents.
I mean, for grown ups, kids needthe in person sessions.
So, schools and you know, familysessions in museums really,
really help.
Children thrive on you beingthere in person, you hold their
engagement a lot more.
But adults, because I run my ownevents on Eventbrite sometimes,
(52:51):
or at the moment I'm doing amonthly book club with a medical
museum, but it means that peoplecan join us from around the
world.
And with my own events, so ifyou find me on social media
particularly You will spot thatI release an event online on
(53:12):
Eventbrite fairly regularlybecause I can record them.
And so if, you know, the kidsget sick or you have to work a
different shift or anything, youknow, life throws up one of the
things it does when you're agrown up you can tap back into
the recording for the.
week following the event.
So, you know, my next one is the13th of February and I'm doing A
(53:35):
Remedy for Valentine's Day, makeof that what you will, a Herbal
Storyteller's Guide toSeduction, A Remedy for
Valentine's Day.
So yeah, it means that, youknow, a couple of lovely people
who come to a lot of my eventsin Canada and in the United
States can make it along.
(53:56):
And it's not just people thatcan make it to Edinburgh or
wherever I am.
There's all sorts of ways youcan join in and, and connect in
my work.
Ashley (54:05):
I love that so much.
Amanda, thank you so much forhaving this conversation with me
today.
Amanda (54:10):
It's my absolute pleasure.
It's been so lovely talking toyou.
And I'm delighted as I say thatI found your podcast.
I've been listening to it in thecar all week.
It's been an absolute joy.
And I will, I will keeplistening in.
Ashley (54:25):
Oh, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of the
filled up cup podcast.
Don't forget to hit subscribeand leave a review.
If you like what you hear, youcan also connect with us at
filledupcup.Com.
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next
(54:47):
episode.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.