February 14, 2024 • 46 mins
On this episode I am joined by Michele Phillips. Michele is a wife and mom of 5. She is a content creator and blogger behind What Dreams May Become. We discuss her decision to get breast implants and her journey with breast implant illness. We talk about the symptoms of BII, what an explant surgery was like and how she found the healing process to be.
What Dreams May Become - Vancouver Mom Blog
Michele Phillips (@whatdreamsmaybecome) • Instagram photos and videos
Bright & spacious home w/ hot tub. Close to beach! - Houses for Rent in Blaine, Washington, United States - Airbnb
Ashley (@filledupcup_) • Instagram photos and videos
Filled Up Cup - Unconventional Self Care for Modern Women
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Filled Up Cuppodcast.
We are a different kind of selfcare resource, one that has
nothing to do with bubble bathsand face masks, and everything
to do with rediscoveringyourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences, and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most
(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.
Ashley (00:31):
I am so excited.
I have Michelle Phillips joiningme today.
Michelle is a content creatorand has a blog, What Dreams May
Become.
She's also an Airbnb super host.
She has a property in Blaine,Washington.
Today, we are going to talkabout breast implants and breast
implant illness.
Just as a disclaimer, neitherone of us are medical
professionals, and we're justsharing from our own personal
(00:53):
experience.
Thank you so much for being heretoday.
Michele (00:56):
Aw, thank you for having me, Ashley.
I'm so excited to be here andtalk to you today.
Ashley (01:01):
Can you tell me what made you decide to get breast
implants?
Michele (01:05):
Yeah.
I think that I grew up in afamily with my sisters, everyone
was really busty.
I grew up in the culture withthe Britney Spears.
And I think that that was thelook and that's what, you know,
you're starting to go throughpuberty.
And I was like, so jealous ofall these friends that had big
(01:26):
boobs.
And it was almost like anobsession.
I just never felt comfortablewith what they looked like.
And then I also had invertednipples, so it created another
sort of level of insecurity.
so I was 19 and I was gettingmarried and all that.
So when I initially went in totalk to a plastic surgeon,
that's sort of what I went in totalk about was the inverted
(01:50):
nipple surgery and.
That actually is quite invasive.
You have to get put under youhave to dig in there.
So then at that time I thought,well, I hate my boobs.
I want bigger breasts.
I was like, if I'm going underanyways, I might as well just do
all of it.
So I had them for 17 years.
For 10 years, I'd say I had noissues that it, you know, I
(02:12):
loved my boobs I think what kindof got convoluted in like my
journey of when I got sick wasthat I had five kids I had them
in six years, the last set wastwins.
I don't know if it was somethingthat like propelled my symptoms,
but I feel like it could havebecause.
And we're not medical experts,but I do believe that when your
(02:35):
immune system or when you'reunder a lot of wear and tear is
sort of when you just don't knowwhen these symptoms will pop up.
The crazy amount of sleepdeprivation is sort of when I
think I can kind of base it onwhen it started to happen and my
symptoms were just very genericand.
I thought it was because I hadfive kids in six years.
(02:59):
So I blamed a lot of it on that.
So it's hard to know exactlywhen it started for me, so then
all of a sudden my kids allstarted sleeping through the
night all of a sudden.
They're all in school.
I'm having my days and I waslike, I'm actually getting
sicker.
I'm getting sicker and I'mgetting sicker and I'm getting
sicker.
What is going on with me andsort of the final thing for me
(03:20):
was that my hair started to fallout I went on to social media
and had someone reach out and Ihope that I'm not bugging you
and it was someone that I justfeel like there's like angels
out there in life sometimes andyou never know who is going to
touch your life or like who thatperson is going to be and she
(03:40):
was just a gentle soul that waslike, I listened to her and she
talked to, you know, maybe yoursymptoms are, I want you to look
up breast implant illness.
And I was like, it's not, no.
And I think it's, have you hadan explant?
Yes, you have.
Yeah.
So you'll kind of know, andmaybe you are different than me,
but I know that I was in totaldenial because I love my boobs.
(04:04):
I didn't want to get rid of thatlook.
I didn't want to go throughsurgery.
I didn't want to replace them.
I didn't want to deal with anyof that.
So there's a lot of denial thathappens.
And I think it was like, no, no,no, no, no.
It's this or it's this or it'sthis.
But I listened to her and shetold me to go to a Facebook
page.
I Think it's, what is, you mightknow it too.
(04:25):
It's breast implant illness byNicole.
Is that the one?
Ashley (04:28):
Yeah, that's one of them.
There is lots of them.
Michele (04:31):
There's so many now.
I think I started reading themand I started hearing women's
stories.
That Facebook page saved by lifebecause.
All of a sudden people werewriting things and I thought, oh
my gosh, for once, finally,someone is saying what I'm going
through, I'm not crazy, I'm notmaking this up, and I actually
feel like I'm a really toughcookie and I'm dying, like what
(04:54):
is going on with my body rightnow, and there was no denying
the most random symptoms that Ihad were like nothing that I had
ever heard before, and it wasall lining up to everything that
these women were saying, and Ifelt like for once, someone was
(05:15):
understanding what I was walkingthrough, and I'm so grateful for
that Facebook page, which wasthe propeller to kind of get me
looking into explants.
It is really frustrating
Ashley (05:25):
because.
Breast implant illness isn'trecognized as a legitimate
medical condition.
As women, I think commonly, wekind of gaslight ourselves.
Oh, I'm sure it's because myperiod is coming.
I'm sure it's because I'mgetting older.
I'm sure it's because the stressof having kids.
And it's like, we think aboutall of these other options than
what it could be.
And if you go to the doctor,it's not even on their radar to
(05:47):
ask Do you have any implants inyour body?
Could it potentially be that?
I feel like people hear aboutbreast implant illness from the
most random places, and I'm sograteful for social media
because I think that's been acatalyst.
But it's like, yeah, you couldgo to your doctor, and they
would suggest that it's They'llgive you like pills for
depression or they'll send youoff for all of these tests and
(06:11):
you're spending sometimeshundreds and thousands of
dollars to try to get yourhealth back but I just wish that
they would look at the most likeobvious symptom of things and
bring up that conversationbecause it can be really
isolating and you legitimatelyfeel like it's a slow death like
your symptoms can literally feellike you're dying.
Michele (06:31):
Absolutely.
I think that I look at it now.
I've had my explant for two anda half years.
When did you get yours done?
Ashley (06:37):
Last May.
So I'm about 18 months.
Michele (06:40):
So I do think, you know, I try to give the medical
world, some grace because I dothink that implants have been
around for, I actually don'thave a number on that, but it is
a newer thing and I think aconversation around all
implanted devices now, and Ithink that that's a whole other
sort of conversation and I thinkI'm really grateful for my
(07:05):
doctor because Of course, shedidn't think it was my implant.
She had never even heard ofthat.
But I do feel really gratefulbecause she did believe me.
She did believe that I wasfeeling sick.
She was trying to do everythingshe could to figure out what was
sort of going on with my body.
When I presented it to her, shedidn't laugh at it.
(07:26):
She did believe me.
And she said, I don't knowanything about that, but you
know what I mean?
And so I am really.
I am grateful that and she's ayounger doctor.
So I am grateful that I did havethat experience.
I don't feel like no one waslistening to me.
I went years and years and yearsof being sick and my doctor
wasn't listening to me, which Ido believe happens so much.
(07:46):
So I am really grateful forthat.
And, you know, to touch on whatyou said about the slow death it
absolutely is.
I.
Can't even imagine where I wouldbe today and like I think
gratitude among all of itbecause I really don't know
where I would be today andprobably you had there not been
social media had someone notreached out that day and given
(08:09):
me that nudge and push just alittle further and ask that
really sensitive questionbecause it is sort of a private
thing and I'm actually so openbook but you know what I mean
for someone else to sort of askthat question so I think I'm so
glad that these conversationsare happening and I'm so glad
that women are talking aboutthis I don't know your thoughts
(08:29):
on it, but even the IUDs, Ithink there's so many issues now
for women with IUDs and.
anything implanted.
It's a lot.
Ashley (08:39):
We don't really think about the impacts of having
anything foreign in our body,whether it's like dental work
and metals, whether it's an IUD,all of it really, I think there
needs to be a lot moreconversations and there needs to
be a lot more research.
It becomes a status quo.
Oh, we've done, you know, 75million implants.
I'm sure they're fine or itkeeps working.
(09:00):
So let's keep doing it andreally kind of see both sides of
it.
And just my wish would really belike transparency.
And so I don't know about you,like even just thinking about
breast implants.
When I went into the doctor.
Basically the only thing that Iwas warned about the scar tissue
that forms around the breast asif it could happen, but again,
that pretty much happens withevery single implant that's put
(09:22):
in, but there wasn't really theconversations about any other
risks that are involved.
And thankfully now they do havea black box warning.
So I don't know if people go into get breast implants now if
they have to be told but I knowwe even didn't have a discussion
when I first put them in like Ithink a lot of the times I had
mine for 12 years.
(09:43):
That there wasn't really adiscussion when I got them in
the first time thinking, Ohyeah, they aren't lifetime
devices.
I am going to have to get themswitched out.
That I wasn't really thinkingfrom the day that I got them in
that it would potentially bemultiple surgeries.
Michele (09:57):
Oh yeah.
I didn't think that either.
I didn't even go there.
Like, what do you do when you're60?
Are you going to 70, 80?
Are you going to keep that ahundred percent, a hundred
percent.
Ashley (10:08):
And even to have them out, basically like
capsulectomies and en blocs andexplants in general are
relatively new and it can bereally difficult to find doctors
that do it.
So if you do go to the doctorand you're like, Hey, I've had
them for five years.
Should we discuss switching themout or taking them out?
The conversations I've seen arealways, okay, let's re implant
(10:29):
with something else.
It's not really seems to be anoption that they're like, yep,
let's definitely take them outunless you're seeking a doctor
for that.
So that's kind of something toconsider if you are.
wanting implants that not onlyare you going to have to have
multiple surgeries, but that thesurgery to get them in is also
significantly different from thesurgery to get them out.
Michele (10:51):
Absolutely.
I don't know about you, but Idefinitely was underprepared
for.
How hard that surgery was.
I almost fainted the first nightand we thought the kids could
just be gone for a night and thekids had to be gone for two
nights because it was a majorsurgery.
I think.
(11:11):
two and a half years out, Ithink it's like a grieving
process and the whole thing issuch a process because first of
all, you're trying to get yourhealth back.
Secondly, you're dealing withbreasts that look different,
that have scars that havenumbness that are healing.
They look different in bathingsuits.
They're not going to see this,but I am wearing my triple cup
(11:32):
pushup bra.
They do not look like thiswithout my bra.
I think still I'm strugglingcause I clearly do like the look
of full breasts.
There's a journey.
There's so much around this, Icame out of my surgery I
wouldn't say I was angry, I wasvery grateful, but just so
against them, like, you know, Ifelt so burned by five years of
(11:55):
my life that I could never getback because, you know, when
you've got loved, you have kids.
Yeah, I do.
My daughter's 16.
Yeah, so you know how fragilethose times are and those
moments and feeling like you'rea shell of yourself and, you're
barely putting two feet in frontof you.
There's so much guilt aroundFeeling like you're not able to
be the mom that you could havebeen in some situations because
(12:18):
you're literally feel likeyou're dying and I think I was
so done with them and wouldn'trecommend them to my worst enemy
and I was putting memes outthere, you know, my funniest one
is like that meme where it'slike So you're telling me that,
when you're buried and if they,dug you up 30 years later, like,
(12:38):
you'd be a bones with yourimplants sitting there.
If that doesn't resonate withyou, that this is not okay for
your body, then I don't know ifthe earth can even make it go
away.
Right.
What can, right?
So, anyways, and then people gotreally mad at me and, really
offended.
And it's really interesting tome because I do believe that,
like I said to you, that womenIt's a very sensitive subject.
(13:02):
Women they like their breasts.
I've talked to women too, whereit's almost this, proud factor,
like, Oh, mine don't make mesick.
Oh, mine are perfect.
Yours weren't.
Sorry! That's also aninteresting sort of thing that I
found as well.
I will say to people, noteverybody gets sick from these.
And, just because you're sick oryou have some symptoms, you
(13:25):
know, don't feel like you alsoneed to just rip them out
either.
There's so many things that itcould be.
I think for women, our healthit's just different than for
men's.
Ashley (13:35):
I think women's health isn't necessarily taken as
seriously or there does seem tobe.
I think a gap between maybethings that we have to deal with
that men have to deal withthere's lots of fantastic
doctors out there don't get mewrong but being able to see your
GP and then being able to see aspecialist in a timely manner
and then getting the testresults and then I feel like
(13:55):
it's so frustrating for a lot ofwomen because we're told that
the labs are normal and it'slike but they're not so I almost
feel We need to look at how welook at labs in a different way
and again, it just not being thestatus quo, we need to really
look at the root of the issueinstead of the symptoms, which I
feel like most Western medicineis taught to look at the
(14:15):
symptoms and not the root.
But I think it's really hardbecause I think, like say post
surgery, we all get breastimplants for a reason that it
can be really devastating.
That once you have them and youlove them to know that
essentially they're killing youand attacking you and that you
do have to get rid of them.
Michele (14:33):
100%.
Ashley (14:35):
So even once you realize like, Hey, this isn't going
well, it's not an easy switch tobe like, I'm just going to get
them out.
A lot of women will wait two,three, four years and really
decide.
I think we're sold that how welook and our breasts
specifically are meant to defineus in a way that.
They really, they don't have toor they shouldn't, but I feel
(14:58):
like we are sold that we'resupposed to look this way.
And then that gives usconfidence or all of the things
that we perceive will changeonce we have them, that I think
it is really hard.
And I think it is something thatcomes with layers.
I'm really glad that there is alot of therapy options and
things like that, because itisn't as simple as like, I got
them out.
It's totally fine.
(15:20):
Because it's a lot of like, Ishouldn't have done this to
myself, or I know for me, mydaughter was two when I got them
in, and essentially I ran out ofenergy, I couldn't get out of
bed certain days, so the timeswhere she was really little, and
I should have been like, Chasingher at the playground were days
where we won't ever get thatback.
So there is a lot of guilt, alot of shame.
(15:41):
It's a lot of money too.
So I know for me, absolutelythat like 15, 000 that it cost
me to take them out.
I'm like that could have boughtso many other things.
So there's a lot of kidding.
Michele (15:53):
Absolutely.
Emotion.
So I think anger is very normal.
Yes, absolutely.
I think it says a lot that womenare taking these out because of
what you just said, the factthat we are taking these out for
how much they cost for thescars, the surgery, the pain,
the post op to essentially, andthis is, you know, can be taken
(16:15):
two ways, look worse is it goesto show you how desperate we are
to feel better.
I think that for me the decidingfactor was I will not go through
another summer with my Childrenfeeling like I'm going to die.
Feeling like I'm taking everyounce of strength.
I have to just show up and bethe mom that they need.
(16:38):
So mine was on June 1st and thenthe surgery is harder than you
think.
And you know, so was thatsummer, rainbows and
butterflies.
It was not, but this last summerwas great.
The fact that women are doingthis for how much it costs with.
All these things and still goingthrough with it shows you just
how sick we are,
Ashley (16:57):
When we talk about feeling like we're dying, I know
for me, my migraines.
It became basically like I wouldget one every couple of months.
It was pretty much like everythree weeks I had allergies to
things.
I'd never had allergies.
I was having GI issues wherelike constantly in the bathroom.
I had such bad inflammation thatI struggled to go up and down my
(17:22):
stairs.
Like it literally would justavoid going upstairs if I have
to.
I could barely walk around theblock and I was 23 when I got
them in.
I was 37 when I got them out.
So that age gap.
Realistically, I should be ableto run up and down 100
Michele (17:40):
percent 100%.
Ashley (17:42):
My hair was falling out.
It was turning gray.
The depression, the
Michele (17:46):
anxiety, the yes, yes, yes, I'm so sorry.
So, oh, and like talking to you,I'm like, honey, I feel you.
I feel you because it's so thatthing in life that you don't
know something unless you walkthrough it.
And so I think, walking throughthings that are hard.
You have to come out of them.
Like, well, we walked it.
(18:08):
It was muddy and it was.
Terrible, but we're on the otherside.
Thank God.
I feel like it just changes youas a person because if someone
came to you now, I'm sure likeme and they're like, Oh, I'm
having, I can't feel somethingthis or my health.
You'd be like, Oh my gosh, I'mgoing to listen.
I believe you.
I believe you, you know what Imean?
I think I want to tell you aboutmy symptoms too, because I
(18:30):
think, and I have a whole listand it's so interesting.
I wrote a list.
So I was like, I don't want toforget all of these weird
symptoms.
And what was the weirdest onethat I had that, that someone
wrote it?
And I was like, Oh my gosh.
So the biggest thing beingwaking up every day feeling
hungover, like I was dying.
I couldn't get out of bed.
(18:51):
And, you know, in the peak of mysickness, I had never struggled
with mental health.
I had five kids.
I never had postpartum, which.
You know, everyone has their ownjourney, but all of a sudden I
started getting mental healthissues my anxiety.
I would be like, I'm in thegarden.
I'm in my garden and I haveanxiety.
I think it's really interestingbecause, you know, here I was on
(19:12):
Instagram with.
My beautiful family and my WhiteHouse and meanwhile, I am
dealing with so many healthstruggles that are silent that
nobody can see because I don'teven understand what's
happening.
I don't even feel comfortablebeing like, I have anxiety in my
garden! So I think it's just areminder too that, as you go
through life or you go on socialmedia or you see things that,
(19:37):
you never know the road thatsomeone is walking or the road
that, someone's gone down.
I think it's just a reminderthat there's so many people
hurting out there and there's somuch behind every pretty
picture, I think that I wouldhave been so comfortable saying
that too, because I am an openbook, but I just didn't know how
to say something because Ithought I was going crazy.
Ashley (19:57):
I think it is a really good reminder that.
You know, Instagram and otherplatforms do end up being a
highlight reel that, we all arebattling something that
sometimes it can be hard to getcaught up in it.
It's like what you're saying,you're going through mental
health issues while having whatwould seem to somebody else's
like this perfect existence.
Michele (20:17):
Absolutely.
Ashley (20:17):
It's a situation where everything can be both.
Like I think we're not all onething.
But it's also hard with socialmedia because if you had posted
saying, you know, I have anxietyin my garden, then it's like,
you're going to get 50 peoplebeing like, 100%.
Michele (20:34):
There's no winning in that conversation.
100%.
Ashley (20:37):
When you had decided to explant, was it hard finding a
doctor that would be comfortabletaking them out?
Michele (20:45):
Well, I think like for you and I don't know, I think it
was on the pages.
I think there was a localFacebook group, too.
So when I started sort ofresearching it, I kept seeing
Aaron Brown's name and so when Istarted researching him then I
went in for a consult so there'stwo parts to the story.
I'm like a huge, huge, hugeresearcher.
(21:06):
I wanted someone that had done alot of them.
I wanted someone that.
Would take the capsules out.
I wanted someone that would takethe photos because I know that I
would be like, did they get allthe capsules?
Did they, did they, did they,did they?
I think he just dotted all thelines that I personally needed.
And it was really nice cause itwas convenient and he actually
lives up the street for me,which is super rando, but I
(21:29):
think it just worked and I washappy with it.
It's so interesting, the rippleeffect, you know, I know so many
people now from my story thathave gotten theirs out and they
can just see their plasticsurgeon that put them in, that
will take them out, that doesvery similar job.
I think that this is becomingmore of a normal surgery now for
(21:51):
plastic surgeons.
That they are comfortable nowtaking these out where I feel
like two years ago, that wasn'twhat it was today.
Do you feel like that?
Ashley (22:02):
I definitely do.
And I do like, hearing that itis more common for plastic
surgeons, because I do thinkthat People should just be given
the option.
And I know with me, I choseAaron Brown more because it was
local.
I didn't want to travelanywhere.
Yeah.
I had such fear because I feltlike my health was so bad.
I was terrified going into thesurgery that I wasn't gonna
(22:24):
survive it.
Oh my gosh.
It was more of that I think wasIn my head, then obviously if I
was really so bad off, thedoctor wouldn't have actually
done a surgery on it, but I wasso panicked and so worried about
it that I know for me, I washappy to be able to not have to
commute.
I could go home after
Michele (22:43):
100 percent 100%.
Because I think even when youand I were looking, I know that
there was women flying to theStates.
There was like another plasticsurgeon.
I want to say like Edmonton orsomewhere in there.
There was like a few nicheydoctors that you could go to and
he happened to live in our town.
I do think that that has changednow, but 2.
(23:05):
5 years ago, like, this ispropelling now.
I really do think that there'straction happening now and
they're probably taking morethan they're putting in.
I would think at this point.
It's so interesting because Ihave nieces and just seeing the
difference in how women seethemselves now and you have a 16
year old daughter and I thinkthat I'm going to talk so
differently to my kids.
(23:25):
I feel like you're the same ageas me with when you're saying
you got your implants out andstuff.
We're just growing up in adifferent generation that a lot
of times is scarier, but alsothere's so much good, you know,
I have nieces that one of hersisters has really big boobs and
the other one has really smallboobs.
And she's like, Oh, so glad Igot the small boobs because it's
like on trend now.
(23:46):
it's so interesting to me howthat's changed.
And I am seeing now,interestingly enough, you know,
you watch TV and they'll havelike, But like, there'll be a
stripper in the background andshe doesn't have implants
anymore.
It's changing, it's actuallylike not trendy to have big
implants anymore.
(24:06):
And if you have them, I'm notjudging.
It's like you do you and Ialways will love big boobies,
but I'm just saying it's justshifted.
You know, it really has shiftedour mindset.
Ashley (24:17):
It totally has, and I really credit things like TikTok
and Instagram for that, becauseagain, when we were growing up,
for me it was like the PamelaAnderson, or like the Jenny
McCarthy, and it was really likeplayboy, playmate, this is the
one body type that you have tofit in to be desirable, and I
think over the years, it's like,Whatever your interests are,
(24:38):
they'll be like an animecharacter for that, or like the
Kardashians for that, orwhoever, but it's such a variety
of bodies now that it doesn'tfeel like you have to fit in
one.
To be a certain way that it'smore like whatever you have
going on, you can make that workfor you.
Michele (24:54):
Absolutely.
Ashley (24:55):
Like the small breast girlies, things that you just
don't think about having bigboobs, like my back had never
hurt that much.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
boob sweat.
Like it just never occurred tome.
Michele (25:05):
Chronic, chronic back pain,
Ashley (25:09):
there's always the other side of that coin, like, yes, I
loved the way that they fit intops.
I definitely miss like that hardfull shape of them or that feel
of them compared to now.
But even for women that werejust born with big boobs, like
there are some likedisadvantages or advantages ones
that there is no perfect
Michele (25:29):
There isn't.
And I feel really good aboutclothing and all that.
But I will say the biggest thingthat I struggle with is bathing
suits.
That's the one for me that I'vegot so much self work, just
trying to like, they just don'tlook as good in a bathing suit.
Those implants you throw in alittle bikini.
So that's the one for me thosegrowing pains of really loving
(25:51):
yourself.
And I think it's actually areally unique journey.
There's a lot in this explantjourney because first of all,
you're trying to get better.
In a lot of cases, you arefeeling better, but there's also
a recovery journey.
I don't know what it was likefor you, but mine was hills and
valleys.
And there was some things thatwent away instantly.
(26:12):
Like the feeling of death when Iwoke up, never came back, never
have once woken up, maybe if Ihad a lot of wine, but I also
went through stages where myexhaustion was through the roof.
I was sleeping and rushing toget the kids from school and
still trying to go walk up thestairs.
That stair walking thing is sointeresting to me.
(26:32):
And I would have moment and I'dgo up the stairs and be like, Oh
my gosh, my husband's name isSteve.
Steve.
I just walked up the stairs andI don't know what yours felt
like.
It felt like I couldn't walk upthe stairs without feeling like
my muscles were fatiguing.
And I think like, even yousaying that to me today, I'm
like realizing, I can walk upthe stairs right now.
I do believe how your symptomscome on is how your symptoms
(26:55):
leave and mine just creeped upon me and mine are creeping out
of me.
If you're listening to this andyou're having an explant, you're
going to get an explant.
Please be patient with yourself,especially if you've had them
for a long time, because yourbody really has gone through
hell and back.
I think there was moments whereI thought, it didn't work, it
didn't work! I can say two and ahalf years out that there is no
(27:17):
reflection.
In any way, shape, or form towhat the woman I was the day
that I went in for surgery.
And in fact, the day I went infor surgery, I was in the mirror
and I was so exhausted.
I was pregnant with twins.
Okay.
There was no exhaustion that metthis exhaustion.
I remember just being like,honestly.
If I don't wake up, I don't carebecause I'm out of my misery and
(27:40):
someone that loves their kidsand family, that is the place
that I was at when I went intothat surgery.
I couldn't wait to get knockedout.
In fact, I was like, that's howI got through it.
I thought that I'd be scared ornervous.
I actually got to a place whereI was like, get me out of my
misery! Knock me out! I am outfor a bit guys, like, see ya!
Mama needs a break, like, maybedon't wake me up.
(28:01):
That's how dark this road cango, right?
Ashley (28:04):
Did you find, other than the exhaustion, when you first
woke up from surgery, was thereanything that you had sort of
noticed immediately after?
Michele (28:14):
I think it's funny because I had some people be
like, well, hopefully that'swhat's going on.
And I was like, Yeah, oh didn'tthink about that.
I think I knew in my heart thatit was what was going on and I
even have people today that Iwill say this and I don't know
if you've had this like I'mactually very quiet with who I
(28:35):
talk to about this because ifyou talk to someone that doesn't
understand this they're notbelieving you.
Even though I've gone throughit, I've had the surgery, I've
come out the other side and saythat my symptoms are better, I
think because you look the same.
That people don't believe itstill.
It's very, very interesting.
And people be like, Oh, do youthink you're just depressed?
(28:57):
Do you think that you were justthis?
And I'm like, Oh, I'm actuallynot comfortable.
We're going to just stop therebecause you're not
understanding.
And that's okay.
I don't expect you tounderstand.
But.
No, and then I have to like goback like, no, this was real.
I did go through this.
I am feeling better.
Like, oh, right.
Sorry to go back to your initialquestion.
(29:17):
I think I woke up and first ofall, I got a surgery and I was
in 10 of pain.
I was like.
Oh my gosh, hard to wake up.
So I got a lot of drugs before Ileft.
That would be the only thing Iwould say is that you're getting
kicked out, which I wish thatthere was a bit more time to
recover.
at The surgical center I was notreally ready to go home.
(29:40):
I do think that I posted aphoto, I was like, this is the
best I've ever felt in 10 years!I laugh at that, I'm like, I was
just heavily drugged.
But, it's hard to know becauseyou're on Tylenol and
everything.
But like you said, thoseheadaches, I was having chronic
headaches all the time.
I think that the initial thingswithin the first.
Six weeks for my eyes gotbrighter.
(30:01):
I took a photo.
It was like dying eyes.
And then six days later, my eyeswere clear and bright, which was
insane.
My skin cleared, like I washaving boils.
All over my face, my husbandalways be like, you've had a zit
on your face, like, in thenicest way, we've been married a
long time, you always have a ziton your face since I met you,
and I'm like, great, which, Ididn't have implants right
before I met him, but I was alsoyoung, so that instantly went
(30:24):
away, and the feeling of deathinstantly went away I'm trying
to think of other things, Theback pain, the chronic back
pain.
I was having chest pain too,where I felt like my muscles
were all ripping and thatchronic neck, back, chest pain,
headaches, acne, stuff likethat.
Ashley (30:43):
I know for me, I can breathe better.
Like that was the first thingwhen I woke up out of surgery
that I took the deepest breathand I couldn't believe.
And again, I was fully druggedup, so the pain fully hadn't hit
in, but I was surprised that Icould open my chest up as much
as I could, but I ended uphaving my surgery at ARH instead
of the surgical center.
Michele (31:03):
Oh, you did?
How come?
Ashley (31:05):
So because I'm of a certain size, they had to do it
in case there was any risks.
Michele (31:10):
And then how big were the implants that you got?
Ashley (31:13):
650 CCs.
So they were, yeah, I had doubleD's.
I was like an A cup to beginwith and I had like massive.
Michele (31:22):
So I know it's wonder you breathe.
Oh gosh.
Yeah.
Ashley (31:26):
Good.
I had them under the muscle too,so my surgery, I had the
explant, I had a lift and then Ihad a little bit of side boob
lipo.
I probably would do more sideboob stuff because I feel like
there was so much skin, evenwith what he took off.
That they're still feel likethey're kind of going this way.
Michele (31:43):
Yeah, and here's my thing about plastic surgery.
I think two and a half years outof this, I think right off the
bat, I hated them and I wouldn'trecommend them to anybody.
I was making jokes about themnow sort of seeing it in new
lights and stuff.
I would say to people, Iunderstand, wanting to look.
Better if something's reallybothering you and is a huge
(32:05):
insecurity, it's okay to want tofix it.
This is just my view, only myview.
I think obviously being so goodwith who you are and really.
Doing some deep work around thatinsecurity, but if it's
something you're really insecureabout, I mean, like, anything,
like, say, your nose, or Iunderstand why people want to do
(32:26):
it, and I'm not opposed to it.
But knowing now what we knowabout any implanted thing, a lot
of people are doing implantedchins, implanted cheekbones,
like I said, the IUDs, blah,blah, blah, knowing that this
could happen.
And that's what I say toeverybody.
Like people like, Oh, I wantedbreast implants and now I'm not
going to do it.
(32:46):
Or, and I'm like, don't do it.
But you know what I mean?
I think just being realistic,like what happens when you're
75.
And you're due to have them outand they're 20 years old, what
are you going to do?
Are you going to go through asurgery at 80 and then get this
explant I think thinking thatway.
Cause I, and I think that you'vesaid this before, that wasn't a
(33:06):
thought that crossed your mind.
It definitely didn't cross mymind.
The risks like this could happento you.
I know that.
Our plastic surgeon is stilldoing implants, which, you know,
I get it.
That's where the money is too.
And some people still want them,but I'm grateful that he does
talk about breast implantillness, and I know that if you
(33:27):
get them done by him, that thatconversation is being had.
So that people know that that isa risk and knowing the signs,
knowing the symptoms, becauseit's like anything in life, you
can drive down the road, knowyour risks, if you do this, know
your risk, this could happen.
And so I'm glad theseconversations are happening and
that women finally figured itout and what breaks my heart and
(33:50):
I don't know if you see this onthese pages, but there'll be
women on there, they're 80, andthey're like, I've lost 30 years
of my life.
That would have been you and Iif we didn't know about this,
where would we be today?
So I'm just like, oh my goshThank goodness.
These conversations arehappening.
Ashley (34:11):
I think the other part of it is too It's like when you
are thinking about surgery andgotten the breast implants and
you're like, I love them.
I wanted them fine I think it'salso understanding that we have
this like oh, but it'll happento you.
It won't happen to me That it'slike you really have to kind of
question that a little bit andbe like, if you want them and
(34:31):
you know all the risks andyou're getting them, fine,
totally, like, I just wanttransparency there.
But I think that we do also haveto be realistic when we're
thinking both sides for thepeople that are like, oh, this
just happens to other people orthat's just so and so story that
it really is so common.
I wish that there was moreresearch into it to see why it
(34:54):
affects certain people, whetherit's.
blood type, whether it'ssomething about our history.
And even when it comes tohealing, like a lot of things
can disappear right away, but itreally can be that in some
cases, you're locking yourhealth into being longterm.
Like I got Hashimoto's after,which will be another thing to
sort of have to solve.
(35:14):
And I ended up with a cyst in myback that Essentially,
inflammation is the root causeof it, so I don't directly know
that it's connected to theimplants, but it seems logical
that it would be, so it's alsolike you could be sort of
damning yourself to long termhealth issues that don't
necessarily go away.
Michele (35:33):
Absolutely, and that we don't know the ripple effect.
Of all of that, you know, and Ithink, like we said, women's
health is so complex and I don'tknow why it is, but there's a
lot going on,
Ashley (35:46):
I love the fact that there is so many people like you
that are brave and are sharingyour story so that somebody
else.
will hear it and go, Oh, I neverthought about that or I never
thought that could be connectedto this and just really open
people's minds about it so thatthey can have that conversation
with their doctor, that they canhave a conversation with maybe a
plastic surgeon and see if it'sright for them, because I just
(36:10):
don't want to see other peoplego through what we had to go
through.
Michele (36:15):
It's so interesting because I actually had a
girlfriend.
Bring it up before this personon Instagram messaged me, I did
have a girlfriend say it to methe year before that she said
something like, do you thinkit's your implants?
I know someone that had this andbop, bop, bop, bop, bop.
And I was like, no, no, it's notmy implants.
(36:35):
People have had implants for howmany years?
It's not my implants.
And I do think that conversationthree years ago, I do feel like
we are making so many leaps andbounds with.
Breast implant illness.
I do think that, especiallyTikTok, they're like, oh my
gosh, all I'm seeing is thesebreast implant illness, TikToks.
So, through the power of socialmedia, these stories are being
(36:58):
shared.
I do think that most should knowthat it could potentially be a
risk now, you know, whether ornot they want to believe it or
not is a whole other thing.
I
Ashley (37:10):
also think that if you're somebody who is going to
a surgeon, you're wantinginformation, you're maybe having
a consultation about gettingsurgery.
If a surgeon tells you they area hundred percent safe, that
breast implant illness isn'treal, that your solution would
just be to re implant.
Please seek other professionals.
(37:31):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I ran into that quite a bit withdoctors in Vancouver when I was
considering my explant and Ijust don't understand how they
can say that with A straightface or with any professional
ethics make sure that when yougo in to talk to doctors that
you are getting, I don't know,real information or that they
(37:52):
are being as open with you ofall of the things that could
happen so that when you do hearpeople sharing their stories to
know that we're not, making itup or that it really wasn't that
it was like a women's issue orlike a different issue that you
know, Even though breast implantillness isn't necessarily
medically recognized byprofessionals, when you listen
(38:14):
to so many of our stories andit's sharing so many similar
symptoms or similar experiences,it's like you have to trust, and
I totally get trust when you'reready, but trust that women
aren't just making this up.
Michele (38:29):
No, I agree.
I do feel really good aboutwhere breast implant illness is
I do think that five years fromnow, it's going to look a lot
different.
I do believe it will berecognized, in some form or way,
because I think there is aquestion like, Okay.
What is the cause?
They don't know, but they'retrying to kind of piece together
(38:49):
and I know our plastic surgeon,he did a podcast, actually, with
my friend Maree Froese, andshe's got a really interesting
breast implant illness storythat she had heard about it
before, but after I got mine,was sort of the propelling
factor yet again, that they'd belike, oh my gosh, no, like, this
could be it, and So glad Ishared my story because it is,
(39:12):
it is really vulnerable,especially when you have a
social media platform of like,you're like, Oh, I had implants
and now they're coming out andhere's photos of my drains and,
I've been sick, but didn't tellyou guys and, you know, all that
kind of stuff.
But her story is actuallyunbelievable too.
She was having joint pain.
(39:32):
Like she couldn't walk.
She had a fitness studio.
She.
Was going to every singledoctor, every single thing.
She couldn't get pregnant.
She was losing babies.
Within six weeks of having herimplants out, she had no pain.
Like, gone, diminished, nevercame back, and got pregnant.
We don't even know the effectthat these have on us.
mine is a very, Hidden messagebecause I think again, I looked
(39:56):
fine, nothing change that likeseeing is believing, which is so
hard sometimes, but for her,hers was like, you saw it, you
believed it because she couldn'twalk.
She couldn't get pregnant.
Here she was six weeks later,pregnant, walking again.
Right.
Ashley (40:11):
It's a great reminder that.
You know, not necessarily thatit was a disability, but like
hidden illnesses, hiddendisabilities, that it doesn't
make them any less valid, we doneed to stop judging people by
the cover because we just reallydon't know.
And it is really.
Awesome.
And a really big blessing to seethat she was able to get to the
other half of it because again,it's like to feel like our
(40:34):
bodies are attacking us, but wedon't know why or how it's an
awful feeling to be stuck insideyour body when that's going on.
Michele (40:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the mental healthcomponent, I've thought about
that a lot, you know, becauselike I said, I had never really
struggled with it.
I look back at that and therewas dark moments when I had
nothing really going on thatshould make me feel like that.
So there's so much guilt aroundthat because I think when life
(41:03):
is good, you should be happy or,you know, all of that kind of
stuff.
And I think I'm like, okay.
What about the implant caused meto have mental health issues?
And I honestly think when youfeel good, you feel good.
I have such a heart now forpeople that have health issues
and because.
(41:24):
It's such a struggle and youcan't walk like you normally did
or do things that you normallydid or feel energized and it's
just a drain on your mentalhealth because you're sick,
you're tired, you don't know whyyou are the way you are.
it's like this whole like spiralkind of in your head of I don't
know.
You know what I mean?
Ashley (41:42):
Yeah, you feel trapped in your body and you feel
helpless because they're really,even though you feel sad, it's
like you don't know how to pullyourself out of it.
I feel like when it's your wholeentire body, it's not as simple
as like, well, I just go totherapy or I just seek
counseling.
It's all of it combined.
And sometimes it can be so hardto know how to fix it all at
(42:03):
once.
And so I really am happy that.
A lot of those things went awayfor you once you had the explant
that it isn't.
Still that you feel stuck in thesame situation.
Michele (42:15):
I am grateful for it too, but you know, again, I
think it was a journey.
I can't say that my mentalhealth just was better because I
think I still was dealing withso many health issues.
I can say now two and a halfyears later that my mental
health is in a really goodplace, but there was times on
this journey without the breastin that I was still really.
(42:39):
Struggling.
Mental health is reallyinteresting because I don't even
know if I really knew, you know,when you're sitting in the
clouds and then all of a suddenthe sun comes out, you don't
realize it was that dark untilthe sun started shining through
the clouds.
I think that that's what a lotwith mental health feels like to
sometimes when you start tofinally feel like you're coming
(43:00):
out of it.
I really do hope that thiscontinues to propel forward and,
there's more research behind ittoo, what is causing this?
Do we need to be aware ofimplanted devices?
Will it ever get to the placethat we want it to be?
Probably not, becauseeverything's run by money.
Unfortunately, the aestheticworld is propelled by money.
(43:24):
And so, will it ever get to theplace?
That you and I probably want itto be at or the conversations
happening, are they puttingrestrictions?
Probably not.
Let's be honest, but can weadvocate for our own health?
Can we be aware?
Can we, have conversations thatat least doctors are having,
this could happen.
These are symptoms and Can welearn from that?
(43:47):
Right?
Ashley (43:48):
Yeah, that's all that we can hope for.
And if you are somebody who hashad an explant and you're like,
my healing isn't linear, knowthat that's normal.
It's like a zigzaggy road.
You're going to have days wherethere's lots of anger and grief
and other things coming up andall you can do is slowly kind of
go down it, but it definitelyisn't,
Michele (44:09):
I think that wasn't something I think that I'm like,
I mean, I don't know, I think alot of people are this you're
like, okay, they're out.
I was like, I want to moveforward.
I want to just get through this.
I want to be my old self again.
And that was not my story.
That was not my journey.
There was a lot of frustrationthere.
My advice now, is be patientwith yourself, be patient and
(44:32):
don't give up hope, keep workingtowards healing and there's so
much information on theseFacebook groups now, thank
goodness.
The cleansing diets and thesupplements and the things that
you can do and you know, two anda half years later, I can walk
up the stairs without feelinglike I'm 90 years old.
So thank goodness, you know,
Ashley (44:55):
I absolutely agree.
And thank you so much for havingthis conversation with me today.
If there is anybody lookingonline for you to connect, can
you let me know where they canfind you?
Michele (45:06):
Yes, they can find me on my blog, which is
whatdreamsmaybecome.
ca, or they can find me onInstagram with the same name,
whatdreamsmaybecome, and my pageit's so interesting because I
named it that because I thinkjust holding on to hope and you
just don't know what life willbring you good or bad and you
(45:27):
know, it is sort of likeconvoluted sort of thing of what
my dreams have become andthere's been hiccups along the
way, like feeling like, youknow, you're 90 but that's okay.
You keep on trucking and youkeep on dreaming and you don't
give up hope.
You've got to hold the key toyour own door.
You have to unlock that key toyour door because, you can't
(45:49):
rely on medical professionals.
Unfortunately, you have to, tryto be in control of your own
life the best that you can withthe circumstances that you're
given.
Ashley (45:59):
I definitely agree with that.
We have to advocate forourselves first and foremost.
So thank you so much again.
It was a pleasure talking to youtoday.
Michele (46:07):
Thank you so much, Ashley.
I'm so glad we could talk aboutthat today.
And I'm so glad that you'reusing your voice and your own
platform to share this withothers, because I think you
never know whose life it couldsave.
And I mean that, that soundsdramatic, but I truly do.
You and I both know that that'sexactly what that means.
Ashley (46:25):
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of the
filled up cup podcast.
Don't forget to hit subscribeand leave a review.
If you like what you hear, youcan also connect with us at
filledupcup.Com.
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next
(46:46):
episode.
Welcome to the Filled Up Cuppodcast.
We are a different kind of selfcare resource, one that has
nothing to do with bubble bathsand face masks, and everything
to do with rediscoveringyourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences, and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most
(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.
Ashley (00:31):
I am so excited.
I have Michelle Phillips joiningme today.
Michelle is a content creatorand has a blog, What Dreams May
Become.
She's also an Airbnb super host.
She has a property in Blaine,Washington.
Today, we are going to talkabout breast implants and breast
implant illness.
Just as a disclaimer, neitherone of us are medical
professionals, and we're justsharing from our own personal
(00:53):
experience.
Thank you so much for being heretoday.
Michele (00:56):
Aw, thank you for having me, Ashley.
I'm so excited to be here andtalk to you today.
Ashley (01:01):
Can you tell me what made you decide to get breast
implants?
Michele (01:05):
Yeah.
I think that I grew up in afamily with my sisters, everyone
was really busty.
I grew up in the culture withthe Britney Spears.
And I think that that was thelook and that's what, you know,
you're starting to go throughpuberty.
And I was like, so jealous ofall these friends that had big
(01:26):
boobs.
And it was almost like anobsession.
I just never felt comfortablewith what they looked like.
And then I also had invertednipples, so it created another
sort of level of insecurity.
so I was 19 and I was gettingmarried and all that.
So when I initially went in totalk to a plastic surgeon,
that's sort of what I went in totalk about was the inverted
(01:50):
nipple surgery and.
That actually is quite invasive.
You have to get put under youhave to dig in there.
So then at that time I thought,well, I hate my boobs.
I want bigger breasts.
I was like, if I'm going underanyways, I might as well just do
all of it.
So I had them for 17 years.
For 10 years, I'd say I had noissues that it, you know, I
(02:12):
loved my boobs I think what kindof got convoluted in like my
journey of when I got sick wasthat I had five kids I had them
in six years, the last set wastwins.
I don't know if it was somethingthat like propelled my symptoms,
but I feel like it could havebecause.
And we're not medical experts,but I do believe that when your
(02:35):
immune system or when you'reunder a lot of wear and tear is
sort of when you just don't knowwhen these symptoms will pop up.
The crazy amount of sleepdeprivation is sort of when I
think I can kind of base it onwhen it started to happen and my
symptoms were just very genericand.
I thought it was because I hadfive kids in six years.
(02:59):
So I blamed a lot of it on that.
So it's hard to know exactlywhen it started for me, so then
all of a sudden my kids allstarted sleeping through the
night all of a sudden.
They're all in school.
I'm having my days and I waslike, I'm actually getting
sicker.
I'm getting sicker and I'mgetting sicker and I'm getting
sicker.
What is going on with me andsort of the final thing for me
(03:20):
was that my hair started to fallout I went on to social media
and had someone reach out and Ihope that I'm not bugging you
and it was someone that I justfeel like there's like angels
out there in life sometimes andyou never know who is going to
touch your life or like who thatperson is going to be and she
(03:40):
was just a gentle soul that waslike, I listened to her and she
talked to, you know, maybe yoursymptoms are, I want you to look
up breast implant illness.
And I was like, it's not, no.
And I think it's, have you hadan explant?
Yes, you have.
Yeah.
So you'll kind of know, andmaybe you are different than me,
but I know that I was in totaldenial because I love my boobs.
(04:04):
I didn't want to get rid of thatlook.
I didn't want to go throughsurgery.
I didn't want to replace them.
I didn't want to deal with anyof that.
So there's a lot of denial thathappens.
And I think it was like, no, no,no, no, no.
It's this or it's this or it'sthis.
But I listened to her and shetold me to go to a Facebook
page.
I Think it's, what is, you mightknow it too.
(04:25):
It's breast implant illness byNicole.
Is that the one?
Ashley (04:28):
Yeah, that's one of them.
There is lots of them.
Michele (04:31):
There's so many now.
I think I started reading themand I started hearing women's
stories.
That Facebook page saved by lifebecause.
All of a sudden people werewriting things and I thought, oh
my gosh, for once, finally,someone is saying what I'm going
through, I'm not crazy, I'm notmaking this up, and I actually
feel like I'm a really toughcookie and I'm dying, like what
(04:54):
is going on with my body rightnow, and there was no denying
the most random symptoms that Ihad were like nothing that I had
ever heard before, and it wasall lining up to everything that
these women were saying, and Ifelt like for once, someone was
(05:15):
understanding what I was walkingthrough, and I'm so grateful for
that Facebook page, which wasthe propeller to kind of get me
looking into explants.
It is really frustrating
Ashley (05:25):
because.
Breast implant illness isn'trecognized as a legitimate
medical condition.
As women, I think commonly, wekind of gaslight ourselves.
Oh, I'm sure it's because myperiod is coming.
I'm sure it's because I'mgetting older.
I'm sure it's because the stressof having kids.
And it's like, we think aboutall of these other options than
what it could be.
And if you go to the doctor,it's not even on their radar to
(05:47):
ask Do you have any implants inyour body?
Could it potentially be that?
I feel like people hear aboutbreast implant illness from the
most random places, and I'm sograteful for social media
because I think that's been acatalyst.
But it's like, yeah, you couldgo to your doctor, and they
would suggest that it's They'llgive you like pills for
depression or they'll send youoff for all of these tests and
(06:11):
you're spending sometimeshundreds and thousands of
dollars to try to get yourhealth back but I just wish that
they would look at the most likeobvious symptom of things and
bring up that conversationbecause it can be really
isolating and you legitimatelyfeel like it's a slow death like
your symptoms can literally feellike you're dying.
Michele (06:31):
Absolutely.
I think that I look at it now.
I've had my explant for two anda half years.
When did you get yours done?
Ashley (06:37):
Last May.
So I'm about 18 months.
Michele (06:40):
So I do think, you know, I try to give the medical
world, some grace because I dothink that implants have been
around for, I actually don'thave a number on that, but it is
a newer thing and I think aconversation around all
implanted devices now, and Ithink that that's a whole other
sort of conversation and I thinkI'm really grateful for my
(07:05):
doctor because Of course, shedidn't think it was my implant.
She had never even heard ofthat.
But I do feel really gratefulbecause she did believe me.
She did believe that I wasfeeling sick.
She was trying to do everythingshe could to figure out what was
sort of going on with my body.
When I presented it to her, shedidn't laugh at it.
(07:26):
She did believe me.
And she said, I don't knowanything about that, but you
know what I mean?
And so I am really.
I am grateful that and she's ayounger doctor.
So I am grateful that I did havethat experience.
I don't feel like no one waslistening to me.
I went years and years and yearsof being sick and my doctor
wasn't listening to me, which Ido believe happens so much.
(07:46):
So I am really grateful forthat.
And, you know, to touch on whatyou said about the slow death it
absolutely is.
I.
Can't even imagine where I wouldbe today and like I think
gratitude among all of itbecause I really don't know
where I would be today andprobably you had there not been
social media had someone notreached out that day and given
(08:09):
me that nudge and push just alittle further and ask that
really sensitive questionbecause it is sort of a private
thing and I'm actually so openbook but you know what I mean
for someone else to sort of askthat question so I think I'm so
glad that these conversationsare happening and I'm so glad
that women are talking aboutthis I don't know your thoughts
(08:29):
on it, but even the IUDs, Ithink there's so many issues now
for women with IUDs and.
anything implanted.
It's a lot.
Ashley (08:39):
We don't really think about the impacts of having
anything foreign in our body,whether it's like dental work
and metals, whether it's an IUD,all of it really, I think there
needs to be a lot moreconversations and there needs to
be a lot more research.
It becomes a status quo.
Oh, we've done, you know, 75million implants.
I'm sure they're fine or itkeeps working.
(09:00):
So let's keep doing it andreally kind of see both sides of
it.
And just my wish would really belike transparency.
And so I don't know about you,like even just thinking about
breast implants.
When I went into the doctor.
Basically the only thing that Iwas warned about the scar tissue
that forms around the breast asif it could happen, but again,
that pretty much happens withevery single implant that's put
(09:22):
in, but there wasn't really theconversations about any other
risks that are involved.
And thankfully now they do havea black box warning.
So I don't know if people go into get breast implants now if
they have to be told but I knowwe even didn't have a discussion
when I first put them in like Ithink a lot of the times I had
mine for 12 years.
(09:43):
That there wasn't really adiscussion when I got them in
the first time thinking, Ohyeah, they aren't lifetime
devices.
I am going to have to get themswitched out.
That I wasn't really thinkingfrom the day that I got them in
that it would potentially bemultiple surgeries.
Michele (09:57):
Oh yeah.
I didn't think that either.
I didn't even go there.
Like, what do you do when you're60?
Are you going to 70, 80?
Are you going to keep that ahundred percent, a hundred
percent.
Ashley (10:08):
And even to have them out, basically like
capsulectomies and en blocs andexplants in general are
relatively new and it can bereally difficult to find doctors
that do it.
So if you do go to the doctorand you're like, Hey, I've had
them for five years.
Should we discuss switching themout or taking them out?
The conversations I've seen arealways, okay, let's re implant
(10:29):
with something else.
It's not really seems to be anoption that they're like, yep,
let's definitely take them outunless you're seeking a doctor
for that.
So that's kind of something toconsider if you are.
wanting implants that not onlyare you going to have to have
multiple surgeries, but that thesurgery to get them in is also
significantly different from thesurgery to get them out.
Michele (10:51):
Absolutely.
I don't know about you, but Idefinitely was underprepared
for.
How hard that surgery was.
I almost fainted the first nightand we thought the kids could
just be gone for a night and thekids had to be gone for two
nights because it was a majorsurgery.
I think.
(11:11):
two and a half years out, Ithink it's like a grieving
process and the whole thing issuch a process because first of
all, you're trying to get yourhealth back.
Secondly, you're dealing withbreasts that look different,
that have scars that havenumbness that are healing.
They look different in bathingsuits.
They're not going to see this,but I am wearing my triple cup
(11:32):
pushup bra.
They do not look like thiswithout my bra.
I think still I'm strugglingcause I clearly do like the look
of full breasts.
There's a journey.
There's so much around this, Icame out of my surgery I
wouldn't say I was angry, I wasvery grateful, but just so
against them, like, you know, Ifelt so burned by five years of
(11:55):
my life that I could never getback because, you know, when
you've got loved, you have kids.
Yeah, I do.
My daughter's 16.
Yeah, so you know how fragilethose times are and those
moments and feeling like you'rea shell of yourself and, you're
barely putting two feet in frontof you.
There's so much guilt aroundFeeling like you're not able to
be the mom that you could havebeen in some situations because
(12:18):
you're literally feel likeyou're dying and I think I was
so done with them and wouldn'trecommend them to my worst enemy
and I was putting memes outthere, you know, my funniest one
is like that meme where it'slike So you're telling me that,
when you're buried and if they,dug you up 30 years later, like,
(12:38):
you'd be a bones with yourimplants sitting there.
If that doesn't resonate withyou, that this is not okay for
your body, then I don't know ifthe earth can even make it go
away.
Right.
What can, right?
So, anyways, and then people gotreally mad at me and, really
offended.
And it's really interesting tome because I do believe that,
like I said to you, that womenIt's a very sensitive subject.
(13:02):
Women they like their breasts.
I've talked to women too, whereit's almost this, proud factor,
like, Oh, mine don't make mesick.
Oh, mine are perfect.
Yours weren't.
Sorry! That's also aninteresting sort of thing that I
found as well.
I will say to people, noteverybody gets sick from these.
And, just because you're sick oryou have some symptoms, you
(13:25):
know, don't feel like you alsoneed to just rip them out
either.
There's so many things that itcould be.
I think for women, our healthit's just different than for
men's.
Ashley (13:35):
I think women's health isn't necessarily taken as
seriously or there does seem tobe.
I think a gap between maybethings that we have to deal with
that men have to deal withthere's lots of fantastic
doctors out there don't get mewrong but being able to see your
GP and then being able to see aspecialist in a timely manner
and then getting the testresults and then I feel like
(13:55):
it's so frustrating for a lot ofwomen because we're told that
the labs are normal and it'slike but they're not so I almost
feel We need to look at how welook at labs in a different way
and again, it just not being thestatus quo, we need to really
look at the root of the issueinstead of the symptoms, which I
feel like most Western medicineis taught to look at the
(14:15):
symptoms and not the root.
But I think it's really hardbecause I think, like say post
surgery, we all get breastimplants for a reason that it
can be really devastating.
That once you have them and youlove them to know that
essentially they're killing youand attacking you and that you
do have to get rid of them.
Michele (14:33):
100%.
Ashley (14:35):
So even once you realize like, Hey, this isn't going
well, it's not an easy switch tobe like, I'm just going to get
them out.
A lot of women will wait two,three, four years and really
decide.
I think we're sold that how welook and our breasts
specifically are meant to defineus in a way that.
They really, they don't have toor they shouldn't, but I feel
(14:58):
like we are sold that we'resupposed to look this way.
And then that gives usconfidence or all of the things
that we perceive will changeonce we have them, that I think
it is really hard.
And I think it is something thatcomes with layers.
I'm really glad that there is alot of therapy options and
things like that, because itisn't as simple as like, I got
them out.
It's totally fine.
(15:20):
Because it's a lot of like, Ishouldn't have done this to
myself, or I know for me, mydaughter was two when I got them
in, and essentially I ran out ofenergy, I couldn't get out of
bed certain days, so the timeswhere she was really little, and
I should have been like, Chasingher at the playground were days
where we won't ever get thatback.
So there is a lot of guilt, alot of shame.
(15:41):
It's a lot of money too.
So I know for me, absolutelythat like 15, 000 that it cost
me to take them out.
I'm like that could have boughtso many other things.
So there's a lot of kidding.
Michele (15:53):
Absolutely.
Emotion.
So I think anger is very normal.
Yes, absolutely.
I think it says a lot that womenare taking these out because of
what you just said, the factthat we are taking these out for
how much they cost for thescars, the surgery, the pain,
the post op to essentially, andthis is, you know, can be taken
(16:15):
two ways, look worse is it goesto show you how desperate we are
to feel better.
I think that for me the decidingfactor was I will not go through
another summer with my Childrenfeeling like I'm going to die.
Feeling like I'm taking everyounce of strength.
I have to just show up and bethe mom that they need.
(16:38):
So mine was on June 1st and thenthe surgery is harder than you
think.
And you know, so was thatsummer, rainbows and
butterflies.
It was not, but this last summerwas great.
The fact that women are doingthis for how much it costs with.
All these things and still goingthrough with it shows you just
how sick we are,
Ashley (16:57):
When we talk about feeling like we're dying, I know
for me, my migraines.
It became basically like I wouldget one every couple of months.
It was pretty much like everythree weeks I had allergies to
things.
I'd never had allergies.
I was having GI issues wherelike constantly in the bathroom.
I had such bad inflammation thatI struggled to go up and down my
(17:22):
stairs.
Like it literally would justavoid going upstairs if I have
to.
I could barely walk around theblock and I was 23 when I got
them in.
I was 37 when I got them out.
So that age gap.
Realistically, I should be ableto run up and down 100
Michele (17:40):
percent 100%.
Ashley (17:42):
My hair was falling out.
It was turning gray.
The depression, the
Michele (17:46):
anxiety, the yes, yes, yes, I'm so sorry.
So, oh, and like talking to you,I'm like, honey, I feel you.
I feel you because it's so thatthing in life that you don't
know something unless you walkthrough it.
And so I think, walking throughthings that are hard.
You have to come out of them.
Like, well, we walked it.
(18:08):
It was muddy and it was.
Terrible, but we're on the otherside.
Thank God.
I feel like it just changes youas a person because if someone
came to you now, I'm sure likeme and they're like, Oh, I'm
having, I can't feel somethingthis or my health.
You'd be like, Oh my gosh, I'mgoing to listen.
I believe you.
I believe you, you know what Imean?
I think I want to tell you aboutmy symptoms too, because I
(18:30):
think, and I have a whole listand it's so interesting.
I wrote a list.
So I was like, I don't want toforget all of these weird
symptoms.
And what was the weirdest onethat I had that, that someone
wrote it?
And I was like, Oh my gosh.
So the biggest thing beingwaking up every day feeling
hungover, like I was dying.
I couldn't get out of bed.
(18:51):
And, you know, in the peak of mysickness, I had never struggled
with mental health.
I had five kids.
I never had postpartum, which.
You know, everyone has their ownjourney, but all of a sudden I
started getting mental healthissues my anxiety.
I would be like, I'm in thegarden.
I'm in my garden and I haveanxiety.
I think it's really interestingbecause, you know, here I was on
(19:12):
Instagram with.
My beautiful family and my WhiteHouse and meanwhile, I am
dealing with so many healthstruggles that are silent that
nobody can see because I don'teven understand what's
happening.
I don't even feel comfortablebeing like, I have anxiety in my
garden! So I think it's just areminder too that, as you go
through life or you go on socialmedia or you see things that,
(19:37):
you never know the road thatsomeone is walking or the road
that, someone's gone down.
I think it's just a reminderthat there's so many people
hurting out there and there's somuch behind every pretty
picture, I think that I wouldhave been so comfortable saying
that too, because I am an openbook, but I just didn't know how
to say something because Ithought I was going crazy.
Ashley (19:57):
I think it is a really good reminder that.
You know, Instagram and otherplatforms do end up being a
highlight reel that, we all arebattling something that
sometimes it can be hard to getcaught up in it.
It's like what you're saying,you're going through mental
health issues while having whatwould seem to somebody else's
like this perfect existence.
Michele (20:17):
Absolutely.
Ashley (20:17):
It's a situation where everything can be both.
Like I think we're not all onething.
But it's also hard with socialmedia because if you had posted
saying, you know, I have anxietyin my garden, then it's like,
you're going to get 50 peoplebeing like, 100%.
Michele (20:34):
There's no winning in that conversation.
100%.
Ashley (20:37):
When you had decided to explant, was it hard finding a
doctor that would be comfortabletaking them out?
Michele (20:45):
Well, I think like for you and I don't know, I think it
was on the pages.
I think there was a localFacebook group, too.
So when I started sort ofresearching it, I kept seeing
Aaron Brown's name and so when Istarted researching him then I
went in for a consult so there'stwo parts to the story.
I'm like a huge, huge, hugeresearcher.
(21:06):
I wanted someone that had done alot of them.
I wanted someone that.
Would take the capsules out.
I wanted someone that would takethe photos because I know that I
would be like, did they get allthe capsules?
Did they, did they, did they,did they?
I think he just dotted all thelines that I personally needed.
And it was really nice cause itwas convenient and he actually
lives up the street for me,which is super rando, but I
(21:29):
think it just worked and I washappy with it.
It's so interesting, the rippleeffect, you know, I know so many
people now from my story thathave gotten theirs out and they
can just see their plasticsurgeon that put them in, that
will take them out, that doesvery similar job.
I think that this is becomingmore of a normal surgery now for
(21:51):
plastic surgeons.
That they are comfortable nowtaking these out where I feel
like two years ago, that wasn'twhat it was today.
Do you feel like that?
Ashley (22:02):
I definitely do.
And I do like, hearing that itis more common for plastic
surgeons, because I do thinkthat People should just be given
the option.
And I know with me, I choseAaron Brown more because it was
local.
I didn't want to travelanywhere.
Yeah.
I had such fear because I feltlike my health was so bad.
I was terrified going into thesurgery that I wasn't gonna
(22:24):
survive it.
Oh my gosh.
It was more of that I think wasIn my head, then obviously if I
was really so bad off, thedoctor wouldn't have actually
done a surgery on it, but I wasso panicked and so worried about
it that I know for me, I washappy to be able to not have to
commute.
I could go home after
Michele (22:43):
100 percent 100%.
Because I think even when youand I were looking, I know that
there was women flying to theStates.
There was like another plasticsurgeon.
I want to say like Edmonton orsomewhere in there.
There was like a few nicheydoctors that you could go to and
he happened to live in our town.
I do think that that has changednow, but 2.
(23:05):
5 years ago, like, this ispropelling now.
I really do think that there'straction happening now and
they're probably taking morethan they're putting in.
I would think at this point.
It's so interesting because Ihave nieces and just seeing the
difference in how women seethemselves now and you have a 16
year old daughter and I thinkthat I'm going to talk so
differently to my kids.
(23:25):
I feel like you're the same ageas me with when you're saying
you got your implants out andstuff.
We're just growing up in adifferent generation that a lot
of times is scarier, but alsothere's so much good, you know,
I have nieces that one of hersisters has really big boobs and
the other one has really smallboobs.
And she's like, Oh, so glad Igot the small boobs because it's
like on trend now.
(23:46):
it's so interesting to me howthat's changed.
And I am seeing now,interestingly enough, you know,
you watch TV and they'll havelike, But like, there'll be a
stripper in the background andshe doesn't have implants
anymore.
It's changing, it's actuallylike not trendy to have big
implants anymore.
(24:06):
And if you have them, I'm notjudging.
It's like you do you and Ialways will love big boobies,
but I'm just saying it's justshifted.
You know, it really has shiftedour mindset.
Ashley (24:17):
It totally has, and I really credit things like TikTok
and Instagram for that, becauseagain, when we were growing up,
for me it was like the PamelaAnderson, or like the Jenny
McCarthy, and it was really likeplayboy, playmate, this is the
one body type that you have tofit in to be desirable, and I
think over the years, it's like,Whatever your interests are,
(24:38):
they'll be like an animecharacter for that, or like the
Kardashians for that, orwhoever, but it's such a variety
of bodies now that it doesn'tfeel like you have to fit in
one.
To be a certain way that it'smore like whatever you have
going on, you can make that workfor you.
Michele (24:54):
Absolutely.
Ashley (24:55):
Like the small breast girlies, things that you just
don't think about having bigboobs, like my back had never
hurt that much.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
boob sweat.
Like it just never occurred tome.
Michele (25:05):
Chronic, chronic back pain,
Ashley (25:09):
there's always the other side of that coin, like, yes, I
loved the way that they fit intops.
I definitely miss like that hardfull shape of them or that feel
of them compared to now.
But even for women that werejust born with big boobs, like
there are some likedisadvantages or advantages ones
that there is no perfect
Michele (25:29):
There isn't.
And I feel really good aboutclothing and all that.
But I will say the biggest thingthat I struggle with is bathing
suits.
That's the one for me that I'vegot so much self work, just
trying to like, they just don'tlook as good in a bathing suit.
Those implants you throw in alittle bikini.
So that's the one for me thosegrowing pains of really loving
(25:51):
yourself.
And I think it's actually areally unique journey.
There's a lot in this explantjourney because first of all,
you're trying to get better.
In a lot of cases, you arefeeling better, but there's also
a recovery journey.
I don't know what it was likefor you, but mine was hills and
valleys.
And there was some things thatwent away instantly.
(26:12):
Like the feeling of death when Iwoke up, never came back, never
have once woken up, maybe if Ihad a lot of wine, but I also
went through stages where myexhaustion was through the roof.
I was sleeping and rushing toget the kids from school and
still trying to go walk up thestairs.
That stair walking thing is sointeresting to me.
(26:32):
And I would have moment and I'dgo up the stairs and be like, Oh
my gosh, my husband's name isSteve.
Steve.
I just walked up the stairs andI don't know what yours felt
like.
It felt like I couldn't walk upthe stairs without feeling like
my muscles were fatiguing.
And I think like, even yousaying that to me today, I'm
like realizing, I can walk upthe stairs right now.
I do believe how your symptomscome on is how your symptoms
(26:55):
leave and mine just creeped upon me and mine are creeping out
of me.
If you're listening to this andyou're having an explant, you're
going to get an explant.
Please be patient with yourself,especially if you've had them
for a long time, because yourbody really has gone through
hell and back.
I think there was moments whereI thought, it didn't work, it
didn't work! I can say two and ahalf years out that there is no
(27:17):
reflection.
In any way, shape, or form towhat the woman I was the day
that I went in for surgery.
And in fact, the day I went infor surgery, I was in the mirror
and I was so exhausted.
I was pregnant with twins.
Okay.
There was no exhaustion that metthis exhaustion.
I remember just being like,honestly.
If I don't wake up, I don't carebecause I'm out of my misery and
(27:40):
someone that loves their kidsand family, that is the place
that I was at when I went intothat surgery.
I couldn't wait to get knockedout.
In fact, I was like, that's howI got through it.
I thought that I'd be scared ornervous.
I actually got to a place whereI was like, get me out of my
misery! Knock me out! I am outfor a bit guys, like, see ya!
Mama needs a break, like, maybedon't wake me up.
(28:01):
That's how dark this road cango, right?
Ashley (28:04):
Did you find, other than the exhaustion, when you first
woke up from surgery, was thereanything that you had sort of
noticed immediately after?
Michele (28:14):
I think it's funny because I had some people be
like, well, hopefully that'swhat's going on.
And I was like, Yeah, oh didn'tthink about that.
I think I knew in my heart thatit was what was going on and I
even have people today that Iwill say this and I don't know
if you've had this like I'mactually very quiet with who I
(28:35):
talk to about this because ifyou talk to someone that doesn't
understand this they're notbelieving you.
Even though I've gone throughit, I've had the surgery, I've
come out the other side and saythat my symptoms are better, I
think because you look the same.
That people don't believe itstill.
It's very, very interesting.
And people be like, Oh, do youthink you're just depressed?
(28:57):
Do you think that you were justthis?
And I'm like, Oh, I'm actuallynot comfortable.
We're going to just stop therebecause you're not
understanding.
And that's okay.
I don't expect you tounderstand.
But.
No, and then I have to like goback like, no, this was real.
I did go through this.
I am feeling better.
Like, oh, right.
Sorry to go back to your initialquestion.
(29:17):
I think I woke up and first ofall, I got a surgery and I was
in 10 of pain.
I was like.
Oh my gosh, hard to wake up.
So I got a lot of drugs before Ileft.
That would be the only thing Iwould say is that you're getting
kicked out, which I wish thatthere was a bit more time to
recover.
at The surgical center I was notreally ready to go home.
(29:40):
I do think that I posted aphoto, I was like, this is the
best I've ever felt in 10 years!I laugh at that, I'm like, I was
just heavily drugged.
But, it's hard to know becauseyou're on Tylenol and
everything.
But like you said, thoseheadaches, I was having chronic
headaches all the time.
I think that the initial thingswithin the first.
Six weeks for my eyes gotbrighter.
(30:01):
I took a photo.
It was like dying eyes.
And then six days later, my eyeswere clear and bright, which was
insane.
My skin cleared, like I washaving boils.
All over my face, my husbandalways be like, you've had a zit
on your face, like, in thenicest way, we've been married a
long time, you always have a ziton your face since I met you,
and I'm like, great, which, Ididn't have implants right
before I met him, but I was alsoyoung, so that instantly went
(30:24):
away, and the feeling of deathinstantly went away I'm trying
to think of other things, Theback pain, the chronic back
pain.
I was having chest pain too,where I felt like my muscles
were all ripping and thatchronic neck, back, chest pain,
headaches, acne, stuff likethat.
Ashley (30:43):
I know for me, I can breathe better.
Like that was the first thingwhen I woke up out of surgery
that I took the deepest breathand I couldn't believe.
And again, I was fully druggedup, so the pain fully hadn't hit
in, but I was surprised that Icould open my chest up as much
as I could, but I ended uphaving my surgery at ARH instead
of the surgical center.
Michele (31:03):
Oh, you did?
How come?
Ashley (31:05):
So because I'm of a certain size, they had to do it
in case there was any risks.
Michele (31:10):
And then how big were the implants that you got?
Ashley (31:13):
650 CCs.
So they were, yeah, I had doubleD's.
I was like an A cup to beginwith and I had like massive.
Michele (31:22):
So I know it's wonder you breathe.
Oh gosh.
Yeah.
Ashley (31:26):
Good.
I had them under the muscle too,so my surgery, I had the
explant, I had a lift and then Ihad a little bit of side boob
lipo.
I probably would do more sideboob stuff because I feel like
there was so much skin, evenwith what he took off.
That they're still feel likethey're kind of going this way.
Michele (31:43):
Yeah, and here's my thing about plastic surgery.
I think two and a half years outof this, I think right off the
bat, I hated them and I wouldn'trecommend them to anybody.
I was making jokes about themnow sort of seeing it in new
lights and stuff.
I would say to people, Iunderstand, wanting to look.
Better if something's reallybothering you and is a huge
(32:05):
insecurity, it's okay to want tofix it.
This is just my view, only myview.
I think obviously being so goodwith who you are and really.
Doing some deep work around thatinsecurity, but if it's
something you're really insecureabout, I mean, like, anything,
like, say, your nose, or Iunderstand why people want to do
(32:26):
it, and I'm not opposed to it.
But knowing now what we knowabout any implanted thing, a lot
of people are doing implantedchins, implanted cheekbones,
like I said, the IUDs, blah,blah, blah, knowing that this
could happen.
And that's what I say toeverybody.
Like people like, Oh, I wantedbreast implants and now I'm not
going to do it.
(32:46):
Or, and I'm like, don't do it.
But you know what I mean?
I think just being realistic,like what happens when you're
75.
And you're due to have them outand they're 20 years old, what
are you going to do?
Are you going to go through asurgery at 80 and then get this
explant I think thinking thatway.
Cause I, and I think that you'vesaid this before, that wasn't a
(33:06):
thought that crossed your mind.
It definitely didn't cross mymind.
The risks like this could happento you.
I know that.
Our plastic surgeon is stilldoing implants, which, you know,
I get it.
That's where the money is too.
And some people still want them,but I'm grateful that he does
talk about breast implantillness, and I know that if you
(33:27):
get them done by him, that thatconversation is being had.
So that people know that that isa risk and knowing the signs,
knowing the symptoms, becauseit's like anything in life, you
can drive down the road, knowyour risks, if you do this, know
your risk, this could happen.
And so I'm glad theseconversations are happening and
that women finally figured itout and what breaks my heart and
(33:50):
I don't know if you see this onthese pages, but there'll be
women on there, they're 80, andthey're like, I've lost 30 years
of my life.
That would have been you and Iif we didn't know about this,
where would we be today?
So I'm just like, oh my goshThank goodness.
These conversations arehappening.
Ashley (34:11):
I think the other part of it is too It's like when you
are thinking about surgery andgotten the breast implants and
you're like, I love them.
I wanted them fine I think it'salso understanding that we have
this like oh, but it'll happento you.
It won't happen to me That it'slike you really have to kind of
question that a little bit andbe like, if you want them and
(34:31):
you know all the risks andyou're getting them, fine,
totally, like, I just wanttransparency there.
But I think that we do also haveto be realistic when we're
thinking both sides for thepeople that are like, oh, this
just happens to other people orthat's just so and so story that
it really is so common.
I wish that there was moreresearch into it to see why it
(34:54):
affects certain people, whetherit's.
blood type, whether it'ssomething about our history.
And even when it comes tohealing, like a lot of things
can disappear right away, but itreally can be that in some
cases, you're locking yourhealth into being longterm.
Like I got Hashimoto's after,which will be another thing to
sort of have to solve.
(35:14):
And I ended up with a cyst in myback that Essentially,
inflammation is the root causeof it, so I don't directly know
that it's connected to theimplants, but it seems logical
that it would be, so it's alsolike you could be sort of
damning yourself to long termhealth issues that don't
necessarily go away.
Michele (35:33):
Absolutely, and that we don't know the ripple effect.
Of all of that, you know, and Ithink, like we said, women's
health is so complex and I don'tknow why it is, but there's a
lot going on,
Ashley (35:46):
I love the fact that there is so many people like you
that are brave and are sharingyour story so that somebody
else.
will hear it and go, Oh, I neverthought about that or I never
thought that could be connectedto this and just really open
people's minds about it so thatthey can have that conversation
with their doctor, that they canhave a conversation with maybe a
plastic surgeon and see if it'sright for them, because I just
(36:10):
don't want to see other peoplego through what we had to go
through.
Michele (36:15):
It's so interesting because I actually had a
girlfriend.
Bring it up before this personon Instagram messaged me, I did
have a girlfriend say it to methe year before that she said
something like, do you thinkit's your implants?
I know someone that had this andbop, bop, bop, bop, bop.
And I was like, no, no, it's notmy implants.
(36:35):
People have had implants for howmany years?
It's not my implants.
And I do think that conversationthree years ago, I do feel like
we are making so many leaps andbounds with.
Breast implant illness.
I do think that, especiallyTikTok, they're like, oh my
gosh, all I'm seeing is thesebreast implant illness, TikToks.
So, through the power of socialmedia, these stories are being
(36:58):
shared.
I do think that most should knowthat it could potentially be a
risk now, you know, whether ornot they want to believe it or
not is a whole other thing.
I
Ashley (37:10):
also think that if you're somebody who is going to
a surgeon, you're wantinginformation, you're maybe having
a consultation about gettingsurgery.
If a surgeon tells you they area hundred percent safe, that
breast implant illness isn'treal, that your solution would
just be to re implant.
Please seek other professionals.
(37:31):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I ran into that quite a bit withdoctors in Vancouver when I was
considering my explant and Ijust don't understand how they
can say that with A straightface or with any professional
ethics make sure that when yougo in to talk to doctors that
you are getting, I don't know,real information or that they
(37:52):
are being as open with you ofall of the things that could
happen so that when you do hearpeople sharing their stories to
know that we're not, making itup or that it really wasn't that
it was like a women's issue orlike a different issue that you
know, Even though breast implantillness isn't necessarily
medically recognized byprofessionals, when you listen
(38:14):
to so many of our stories andit's sharing so many similar
symptoms or similar experiences,it's like you have to trust, and
I totally get trust when you'reready, but trust that women
aren't just making this up.
Michele (38:29):
No, I agree.
I do feel really good aboutwhere breast implant illness is
I do think that five years fromnow, it's going to look a lot
different.
I do believe it will berecognized, in some form or way,
because I think there is aquestion like, Okay.
What is the cause?
They don't know, but they'retrying to kind of piece together
(38:49):
and I know our plastic surgeon,he did a podcast, actually, with
my friend Maree Froese, andshe's got a really interesting
breast implant illness storythat she had heard about it
before, but after I got mine,was sort of the propelling
factor yet again, that they'd belike, oh my gosh, no, like, this
could be it, and So glad Ishared my story because it is,
(39:12):
it is really vulnerable,especially when you have a
social media platform of like,you're like, Oh, I had implants
and now they're coming out andhere's photos of my drains and,
I've been sick, but didn't tellyou guys and, you know, all that
kind of stuff.
But her story is actuallyunbelievable too.
She was having joint pain.
(39:32):
Like she couldn't walk.
She had a fitness studio.
She.
Was going to every singledoctor, every single thing.
She couldn't get pregnant.
She was losing babies.
Within six weeks of having herimplants out, she had no pain.
Like, gone, diminished, nevercame back, and got pregnant.
We don't even know the effectthat these have on us.
mine is a very, Hidden messagebecause I think again, I looked
(39:56):
fine, nothing change that likeseeing is believing, which is so
hard sometimes, but for her,hers was like, you saw it, you
believed it because she couldn'twalk.
She couldn't get pregnant.
Here she was six weeks later,pregnant, walking again.
Right.
Ashley (40:11):
It's a great reminder that.
You know, not necessarily thatit was a disability, but like
hidden illnesses, hiddendisabilities, that it doesn't
make them any less valid, we doneed to stop judging people by
the cover because we just reallydon't know.
And it is really.
Awesome.
And a really big blessing to seethat she was able to get to the
other half of it because again,it's like to feel like our
(40:34):
bodies are attacking us, but wedon't know why or how it's an
awful feeling to be stuck insideyour body when that's going on.
Michele (40:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the mental healthcomponent, I've thought about
that a lot, you know, becauselike I said, I had never really
struggled with it.
I look back at that and therewas dark moments when I had
nothing really going on thatshould make me feel like that.
So there's so much guilt aroundthat because I think when life
(41:03):
is good, you should be happy or,you know, all of that kind of
stuff.
And I think I'm like, okay.
What about the implant caused meto have mental health issues?
And I honestly think when youfeel good, you feel good.
I have such a heart now forpeople that have health issues
and because.
(41:24):
It's such a struggle and youcan't walk like you normally did
or do things that you normallydid or feel energized and it's
just a drain on your mentalhealth because you're sick,
you're tired, you don't know whyyou are the way you are.
it's like this whole like spiralkind of in your head of I don't
know.
You know what I mean?
Ashley (41:42):
Yeah, you feel trapped in your body and you feel
helpless because they're really,even though you feel sad, it's
like you don't know how to pullyourself out of it.
I feel like when it's your wholeentire body, it's not as simple
as like, well, I just go totherapy or I just seek
counseling.
It's all of it combined.
And sometimes it can be so hardto know how to fix it all at
(42:03):
once.
And so I really am happy that.
A lot of those things went awayfor you once you had the explant
that it isn't.
Still that you feel stuck in thesame situation.
Michele (42:15):
I am grateful for it too, but you know, again, I
think it was a journey.
I can't say that my mentalhealth just was better because I
think I still was dealing withso many health issues.
I can say now two and a halfyears later that my mental
health is in a really goodplace, but there was times on
this journey without the breastin that I was still really.
(42:39):
Struggling.
Mental health is reallyinteresting because I don't even
know if I really knew, you know,when you're sitting in the
clouds and then all of a suddenthe sun comes out, you don't
realize it was that dark untilthe sun started shining through
the clouds.
I think that that's what a lotwith mental health feels like to
sometimes when you start tofinally feel like you're coming
(43:00):
out of it.
I really do hope that thiscontinues to propel forward and,
there's more research behind ittoo, what is causing this?
Do we need to be aware ofimplanted devices?
Will it ever get to the placethat we want it to be?
Probably not, becauseeverything's run by money.
Unfortunately, the aestheticworld is propelled by money.
(43:24):
And so, will it ever get to theplace?
That you and I probably want itto be at or the conversations
happening, are they puttingrestrictions?
Probably not.
Let's be honest, but can weadvocate for our own health?
Can we be aware?
Can we, have conversations thatat least doctors are having,
this could happen.
These are symptoms and Can welearn from that?
(43:47):
Right?
Ashley (43:48):
Yeah, that's all that we can hope for.
And if you are somebody who hashad an explant and you're like,
my healing isn't linear, knowthat that's normal.
It's like a zigzaggy road.
You're going to have days wherethere's lots of anger and grief
and other things coming up andall you can do is slowly kind of
go down it, but it definitelyisn't,
Michele (44:09):
I think that wasn't something I think that I'm like,
I mean, I don't know, I think alot of people are this you're
like, okay, they're out.
I was like, I want to moveforward.
I want to just get through this.
I want to be my old self again.
And that was not my story.
That was not my journey.
There was a lot of frustrationthere.
My advice now, is be patientwith yourself, be patient and
(44:32):
don't give up hope, keep workingtowards healing and there's so
much information on theseFacebook groups now, thank
goodness.
The cleansing diets and thesupplements and the things that
you can do and you know, two anda half years later, I can walk
up the stairs without feelinglike I'm 90 years old.
So thank goodness, you know,
Ashley (44:55):
I absolutely agree.
And thank you so much for havingthis conversation with me today.
If there is anybody lookingonline for you to connect, can
you let me know where they canfind you?
Michele (45:06):
Yes, they can find me on my blog, which is
whatdreamsmaybecome.
ca, or they can find me onInstagram with the same name,
whatdreamsmaybecome, and my pageit's so interesting because I
named it that because I thinkjust holding on to hope and you
just don't know what life willbring you good or bad and you
(45:27):
know, it is sort of likeconvoluted sort of thing of what
my dreams have become andthere's been hiccups along the
way, like feeling like, youknow, you're 90 but that's okay.
You keep on trucking and youkeep on dreaming and you don't
give up hope.
You've got to hold the key toyour own door.
You have to unlock that key toyour door because, you can't
(45:49):
rely on medical professionals.
Unfortunately, you have to, tryto be in control of your own
life the best that you can withthe circumstances that you're
given.
Ashley (45:59):
I definitely agree with that.
We have to advocate forourselves first and foremost.
So thank you so much again.
It was a pleasure talking to youtoday.
Michele (46:07):
Thank you so much, Ashley.
I'm so glad we could talk aboutthat today.
And I'm so glad that you'reusing your voice and your own
platform to share this withothers, because I think you
never know whose life it couldsave.
And I mean that, that soundsdramatic, but I truly do.
You and I both know that that'sexactly what that means.
Ashley (46:25):
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of the
filled up cup podcast.
Don't forget to hit subscribeand leave a review.
If you like what you hear, youcan also connect with us at
filledupcup.Com.
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next
(46:46):
episode.
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