February 21, 2024 • 49 mins
On this episode, I am joined by Robin Stevens Payes. She is a science writer, storyteller and author of the teen time travel adventure series, Edge of Yesterday. Creator of an interactive “learning through story” platform, her organization, EOY Media partners with schools and enrichment programs to offer internships, programs, classes and workshops geared to GenZ youth to learn through story and examine the past to reach for our more perfect future.
On this episode we discuss parenting and her latest book and workshop the Mother-Daughter Code. She tries to offer insight on how mothers and daughters can communicate in an effective way that benefits both parties.
Mothers and daughters – Edge of Yesterday Blog
Robin Stevens Payes (@robinstevenspayes) • Instagram photos and videos
TheMotherDaughterCode
Ashley (@filledupcup_) • Instagram photos and videos
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Filled Up Cuppodcast.
We are a different kind ofself-care resource.
One that has nothing to do withbubble baths and face masks, and
everything to do withrediscovering yourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences, and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most
(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.
Ashley (00:32):
I am so excited.
I have Robin Steven Paynejoining me today.
She is the author of the sciencefiction series edge of
yesterday.
She's also a mom of three, acoach, and a mentor.
Her newest book is the motherdaughter code.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Robin (00:47):
Thanks for having me, Ashley.
I'm excited to be here.
Ashley (00:50):
Can you let everybody know sort of what to expect with
the mother-daughter code?
What its about?
Robin (00:56):
Sure.
This is something that has in away grown out of my writing
these book series.
And of course, out of my being amom my, kids are all grown
adults now, but we went throughthose hard times when they were
teens.
I found, especially with mydaughter, that, the dynamic
changes when they get to be 10or 11 and suddenly they're not.
(01:20):
That I don't wanna say compliantbecause it's never compliant,
but that receptive, excited girlthat you got to enjoy when she
was kind of before middleschool, they challenge you,
right?
Not just accepting everythingyou say.
And so it was a dynamic thatreally confused me when my
daughter was that age inparticular, not that my sons
(01:42):
didn't go through those moments,but especially with my daughter.
And so it really was thepropulsion that drove me to
write the edge of yesterdayseries was when my daughter was
entering those preteen years,and I was listening in, on their
back seat conversations becauseyou know how.
As a carpooling mom, you get tohear things you wouldn't hear
otherwise from your daughter andher friends, and they don't
(02:05):
think you're there.
You know, they think you'reinvisible.
I was taking notes and it wasreally a challenge for me.
And one of the things that cameup at that time for me was the
fact that, well, there were twothings.
Really.
One of the things that came upfor me was that girls in
particular, Have this reallydifficult transition that they
(02:26):
make in middle school and laterwhere they might have been
bubbly and forthcoming asyounger, children or, younger
girls.
But when they reach that age,they suddenly get to be
self-conscious.
They suddenly maybe pull back.
They're not sure about boys andrelationships and it causes a
(02:46):
lot of changes, I would say inhow at least for my daughter and
her friends, it changes how theypresent themselves in their
confidence in a lot of waystakes a hit.
And so I created a female teencharacter who I went to embody
all of the qualities that Ihoped to imbue in my daughter at
(03:08):
the time, and also to get mysons as they were entering that
age to respect.
that girls can be strong.
They can be assertive, they canbe smart and they can be
respected, and it's up to theboys at that point, as they are
getting to be teens themselves,to understand that here's a
(03:28):
force to be reckoned with, andshe's not backing down,
Ashley (03:32):
which I think is so important because I feel like
whether it's subconscious orwhether it's just sort of the
programming that we've had.
Do tend to use strong or fastfor boys and it's, you know,
you're so pretty or you are sonice when it comes to women.
So it is so great to have thatmessaging that we both can be
fast.
(03:52):
We both can be strong without ithaving to have some negative or
bad connotation attached to it.
Robin (03:59):
Yeah, exactly.
And it's really interestingbecause I've come to look at
fairy tales as kind of thearchetype for at least in the
west for what we expect girls tobe, you know, girls are passive,
the prince is gonna rescue you.
He's going to take you out ofthe trance, snow white.
(04:19):
Right.
But what if that's just notnecessarily true?
What if we are our own savior, Idon't wanna use that word in the
grandiose space, but what if wehave the capacity to be our own
advocates to really be confidentand competent in ourselves.
And how do you translate thatidea when it's so ingrained from
(04:43):
early childhood on, you know, ifyou look at fairy tales that we
read our kids, when they'relittle, how do you transform
that idea when they get to besort of.
Tweens or teens middle schooland beyond how do we make that
story come alive for them andreally give them that spark of
confidence to be their ownheroes.
Ashley (05:03):
I really do think that is a really important point
because from an early age we'resold on, you know, that pretty,
pretty princess syndrome andwaiting for prince charming.
And, you know, sometimes thereis a prince charming, but
sometimes there just isn't.
So if we do spend all of ourtime waiting for somebody to fix
things or waiting to fix thingsthat really aren't broken and
really to find that confidencein ourselves can be so
(05:24):
challenging.
But I think it's so importantthat we start feeding that
messaging into young peoplebecause it is such a hard time
and is so challenging.
I think sometimes as grown upsor, or parents.
We sometimes forget what achallenging and hard phase it is
for them and how they have allthis mixed messages.
Plus the self confidence issuesplus hormones, plus just the
(05:47):
neurological brain developmentand all of these things that
it's sometimes hard to remembereverything that they are dealing
with.
Robin (05:56):
Yeah, totally.
And it's more intense now,right?
With social media, you know, ifthey're scrolling through their
Instagram and everyone else isprettier, everyone else has the
boyfriend, boy, that just givesthem such a wall up to their
self esteem.
And so then they start making upwho they should be or who they
think they should be.
And it doesn't necessarily comefrom inside them.
(06:17):
Like the cues that we get arethe clues that we get are so
much external now that it's hardto be able to tune into the
internal clues that really helpguide us personally, you know,
that are our own story.
And so I use stories andstorytelling as kind of the
entry point to finding both theway to navigate or to help our
(06:39):
daughters and our children ingeneral.
It's not just the girls.
But our children navigate that.
Really fraught period in theirlives.
As you say, it's hormones, it'sbrain science, it's peer
pressure, all of those thingssocial media pressure.
But through our stories, Likethe fairy tale, how do we change
the ending?
(07:00):
Or how do we even change thebeginning so that we're
empowering our girls, but alsoAshley ourselves.
How do we empower ourselves asmoms to really be that example
to mentor our daughters andtheir friends, to show the
example that you can be strong,that you can be assertive, that
(07:21):
you can still be.
A good person.
You can still be respected andyou can still feel good in
yourself.
These are the kinds of questionsthat come up, which I think is
really.
Really important as well.
Cause I think sometimes, and youhad kind of talked about how,
you know, those 10 and 11, thoseyears, all of a sudden, they
just creep up on you.
And all of a sudden you havelike this completely different
(07:43):
little person that you aretrying to be there for.
And I feel like the relationshipdynamic changes and it changes
so fast and suddenly that itbecomes, you know, you're still
trying to take care of them andmonitor them, but it becomes
less of a.
You know, brush your teeth, goto bed.
thing that it is when they'rereally little or, hold my hand
(08:03):
as across the street versus Ihave to now kind of guide you
and back off a little bit sothat you can make your own
mistakes.
And I feel like especiallymyself as a parent, it's such a
challenging step back because itdoes happen so quickly for us to
kind of realize that they don'tneed us in the same capacity.
And that's okay.
(08:25):
and that word you use to guideis the word that I try to
emphasize when I'm working withmoms and teens, because we are
not in control of them.
Yeah.
And much less.
So when they're teens, ofcourse, than when they're
younger.
So we can serve as guides.
We can serve as role models andmentors, but we cannot tell them
(08:47):
this is who you have to be.
That is for them to discover.
And the other thing that I thinkthat we overemphasize in parts
of our culture in this countryanyway, is that we have to
protect them.
That is your job as a parent,but also they have to learn how
(09:09):
to suffer.
Proportionally to their capacityto be able to so suffering a
little bit.
When you're young gives you thatresilience, it shows you can
bounce back.
So that when you get older, youcan handle the bigger problems,
because if you don't get that insteps, when you're growing up,
(09:30):
then you hit the bump, you know,where you're off at college.
Mom and dad have done everythingfor you.
You've gotten all the trophies,right.
And suddenly you're not thesmartest anymore, or you're not
the best in soccer Or somebodyelse is challenging your belief
system.
If you are not prepared for thatfrom a younger age, sort of in
(09:50):
an evolutionary way, then boom,that really that's a big herd at
that point, a big hit, and it'smuch harder to bounce back from
that.
I've done a lot of work intranslational neuroscience, I'm
a science writer too.
And so brain science is.
Particular fascination to me.
And especially for adolescents,I say, I study teen brains and
write about teen brains.
(10:11):
Because that is a time whenthere's so much going on in
their heads and in their heartsin their lives.
But it's a time really when wehave to give them the skills to
be resilient.
I came to this brain sciencething when my kids were
teenagers too.
(10:33):
I often say if I could timetravel back to when they were
little, the one thing that Iwould want to instill in them is
resilience.
Because if there's one qualitythat will serve you through a
lifetime, it's being able tobounce back from adversity.
And there is no one who getsthrough life without adversity.
I'm sure you have seen thatyourself.
Ashley (10:52):
I think, my generation being, I guess, like an elder
millennial, or sort of that agegap of things, I feel like we
tended to over correct a littlebit and almost lean into that
helicopter parenting where wekind of were like, we'll do all
of the things and we'll bubblewrap you and will help you.
I think did that disservicewhere it was like our helping
(11:15):
really didn't give them theskills to necessarily be able to
be as independent as they needto.
Like, I.
So many people tend to be scaredof failure or think of it as
like this big thing wheresometimes our failures can
really lead us to really greatskill sets or a really great
lesson, or pivot us in a waythat this didn't work out.
(11:38):
But now I know I have theability to do this.
Let's try it this way.
Robin (11:42):
Yeah.
I'm a mentor in where I live, wehave a very active group of
women in technology, and there'sa girls in technology program.
I've been a mentor with girls intechnology for.
Five or six years now.
And we always lead a session tomentor these proteges about
failure.
How do you fail and succeedagain?
(12:02):
And so one of the stories that Ilove the most is Thomas Edison
did not fail.
999 ways to create a light bulb.
He just learned 999 ways not tomake a light bulb.
So I love that it's that idea ofpersistence and, you know,
failure can lead to success.
(12:23):
Sometimes the success doesn'tlook at all like what you want
it to or what you think itshould.
But being open and receptive tothat is really I think its own
skillset.
Ashley (12:32):
I definitely agree with that.
Now getting back to sort of themother daughter code, what are
some of the keys that yourecommend that people think
about while they're taking theprogram?
Robin (12:43):
So there are six keys that I have to unlocking the
mother daughter code so the sixkeys to a better you and her
together.
The first key is why is shedoing this to me?
Or here we go again.
I sort of have both of thoseframeworks in mind.
So here we go again, is thatidea that we feel like we are
(13:05):
nagging her to death, right?
Pick up your clothes, get readyfor school.
Don't forget your homework.
You did you make your lunch?
Are you gonna get to the bus ontime?
You know, how often do we findourselves reminding her?
It seems like a broken record,right?
It happens all the time, butwhat if there is something in
(13:27):
her that is developmentallyappropriate that keeps her from
focusing in on what we think isimportant.
So a little bit of this, here wego again.
What is she doing to me?
Why is she doing this to me?
Is tuning into where she isdevelopmentally.
And what is appropriatesometimes it's not appropriate.
(13:48):
Sometimes it's a bad habit orshe's lost in her Instagram or
she fell asleep on the phone toher best friend so sometimes
it's not the right thing, butoftentimes if we're listening to
our daughters, we can hear them.
If we are really curious and askher what's going on with you.
And have the trust and thecommunication open with her,
(14:11):
then we will learn somethingabout why this is happening over
and over.
Maybe it's just making her bedand cleaning up.
Her room is just not thatimportant to her.
Maybe she's got three examscoming up the next day and she
just was too tired to get to it.
So a lot of this is goodlistening skills.
A lot of this is remindingourselves what it's like to be
(14:34):
that age.
And also just knowing what'sdevelopmentally appropriate.
So that's one of the keys is,you know, here we go again.
The thing that I like to remindmothers, you mentioned the
helicopter mom we have all ofthese names for over parenting.
I like the phrase.
Good enough.
Mothering.
So we're not perfect, right?
(14:55):
She's not perfect.
And to expect perfection is justimpossible and it leaves us
always questioning ourselves andour parenting skills, but it
also leaves her thinking.
We're she's never good enough.
So this idea of good enoughparenting or good enough
mothering is being accepting ofwhere she is and where you are.
(15:21):
Because that's gonna change overtime.
That dynamic is always changing,but sort of being receptive to
the fact that perfection is notour goal here.
It's being good enough fromwhere we are at that moment.
So good enough.
Mothering is the second keytapping the creativity code.
So one of the things that I havenoticed, especially working with
(15:43):
the teens who I've mentored, andI have a group of interns who
works with me for edge ofyesterday, which is the book
series.
Who I teach writing skills to.
It's sort of a jobapprenticeship in a way is that
we have taught ourselves and ourkids that creativity is a bad
(16:03):
thing.
And what do I mean by that inschool?
You have to have the answer it'seither, right.
or wrong.
Sometimes there's a gray area,right?
Sometimes, I mean, it could bean essay in question and that
gives you a little more leeway,but we emphasize that there's a
right way of thinking.
(16:23):
We are guilty of this in our ownlives too.
We've sort of had the creativityraised out of us in a way.
So if you look at youngchildren, what do they do?
They play right.
And they create crazy things..
And sometimes it's justnonsense.
Sometimes they're, you know,coloring on the walls and you're
like really POed because whatare you doing that for?
(16:47):
Sometimes if we give them theright tools, like paper and
crayons and teach them not towrite on the walls, they are
creating amazing things that arehelping their brains, make new
connections and grow.
We have the capacity.
As adults to re-tap into ourinner five year old to play and
(17:09):
create, but also to teach ourteens, that it's okay to play as
a teenager, it's okay to play asan adult.
If you're not playing, you'relosing a really important skill
that kind of makes life morefun, more interesting, but also
helps solve problems.
Right?
How often do we hear that intoday's economy?
(17:30):
You need to learn to be aproblem solver, but we don't
give.
our young people, the tools incertainly not in school and
often not at home either wherethey can make new connections or
they can collaborate with otherpeople in ways that are outside
the box thinking.
So the creativity code is onecomponent and that's a part of
(17:52):
the mother-daughter code that wespend a little time creating.
One of the things that I love todo is called the paperclip
challenge.
If you think of a paperclip, itcould be any color, but silver
paperclip, right?
Who comes up with age wise, whocan come up with the most ways
to use a paper?
Brainstorm that?
(18:12):
What would you use the paperclipfor?
Ashley (18:15):
I love sort of thinking about it.
Cause it is so simple.
You could use it potentially tohang things even on your wall,
like art, you could use it in atraditional sense, like grouping
paper that the, options reallyare endless.
If you open your mind them.
Robin (18:29):
Yeah.
So five year olds have the mostways that they come up with
using paperclips.
There are a hundred ways thatthis is an actual research
experiment.
That's been done a hundred waysthat a five year old can use a
paperclip.
It could be closed, it could beearrings.
It could be a ring around yourfinger.
Options are endless by the timethey're seven, it's 50.
(18:50):
They come up with 50 ideas bythe time they're in fourth
grade, it's maybe 20.
And by the time we get to highschool, it might be five or 10.
And by the time we adults comeup with it, you know, it's well,
what do you do with paperclips?
Of course you clip paperstogether, but we don't even stop
to think about what otheroptions there are, cuz that
would be silly.
(19:10):
But what if being silly isreally part of.
How to make life more joyous.
And I feel like joy is somethingthat we're missing a lot out in
life for ourselves and for ourkids.
Ashley (19:23):
I definitely agree with that.
I think especially in the lastcouple years trapped in like the
hustle culture and we're all soburned out and just sort of
trying to keep our head abovethe water that it's like, we did
forget, what makes me happyduring the day, what's something
I really enjoy doing.
What's something where I canplay and kind of get back to
that inner child.
It kind of becomes thisregimented thing where it's
(19:44):
like, we weren't meant to justlive and, go home.
Yeah.
Robin (19:48):
So think about when you were five years old, Ashley,
what was something that youloved to do?
Ashley (19:55):
I feel like I had imaginary friends and loved
playing with dolls.
I think that was like my go to,
Robin (20:02):
okay.
So what if you were to do thatas an adult?
Ashley (20:06):
Well, I feel like I've sort of subbed imaginary friends
for like talking to new peopleall the time.
So I kind of get to you aredoing it that way.
And then the dolls, I just, notso much anymore, but yeah.
So I think it's leaning intothose things.
What sort of spark joy, whatbrings those passions back?
Robin (20:24):
Yeah.
Well, I even think about, when Iwas maybe seven or eight, I
wanted be an Olympic figureskater.
So I took ice skating lessonsfor a long time.
And then.
Became clearer.
After a while that I was notgonna be an Olympic skater, but
I still like to go skatingsometimes.
And why not?
(20:44):
And why, why not take yourdaughter along with you or why
not indulge in one of the thingsthat she feels passionate about?
Maybe it's doing a trash pickupday.
Why not engage in something withher that you guys can do
together?
That's gonna build that bondbetween mothers and daughters.
It's not about you wanting herto do something or what you
think is gonna make hersuccessful, but it's about
(21:06):
indulging sort of the thingsthat she cares about that maybe
she wouldn't think you wouldwanna do with her but sharing
that moment would just create anew memory.
The third key is, and this Ifeel is really important I call
it mothering yourself.
So what are those childhoodwounds or those moments that we
(21:29):
missed ourselves growing up thatbecause our mothers didn't know
or didn't listen or were toobusy or had to work all the time
and couldn't be there.
What are those moments that wefeel.
Hurt us.
And how much of that are weprojecting onto our daughter?
(21:51):
So the capacity and this kind ofgets back to the turning the
fairytale into a femaleempowerment story is we can go
back and mother ourselvesthrough those wounds.
What does that look like?
Ashley (22:03):
Healing is so important because I feel like again,
whether we realize it or whetherit's so subconscious, we do end
up bringing things.
From our childhood forwardthings that could have seemed
very simple in the moment.
And then we've kind of twistedor made it seem like something
else that now is creating shameor guilt.
And I feel like being a mom, wealways kind of talk about mom
(22:25):
guilt.
And a lot of that is like, Notnecessarily things that our kids
are doing to us, but more thingsthat we project in and kind of
create in our own head where Ithink any time that we can
eliminate that guilt or reallyget back to the root of why it
exists in the first place is soimportant.
Robin (22:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So mothering yourself is veryimportant and, I'm glad you
brought up that word guilt.
I was looking at a studyrecently that said that Parents
spend most of their time whenthey're not doing something with
their child or for their childguilty about what they didn't do
or something they did wrong.
And that kind of ties into thegood enough parenting idea as
(23:04):
well.
First of all, we feel guiltythat we didn't give our.
Daughter, our child, everythingthat we know she needed or that
we thought would help her.
And part of it is also that wedidn't get that.
We weren't modeled that aschildren.
And so how would we even know?
And then why would she feelguilty about something you
(23:25):
couldn't possibly know?
It's very much intertwined.
So the guilt is a very realthing and I think every parent
feels it because again, we'renot perfect.
We don't know everything that'sgoing on in her life.
And honestly, many times wedon't even know the things that
are driving us.
Ashley (23:45):
I like the fact that it kind of brings up this good
enough striving for perfection.
There really is no such thing.
So I think if we do strive forevery single day is gonna be
different.
Every single day, all we can dois try our best and hope that
our kids are receptive to whatour best looks like for that
day.
I think not only lettingourselves off the hook, but
(24:06):
letting our kids off the hook,like you had kind of talked
about in the beginning, how itcan feel like there's this back
and forth of nagging and itfeels like we're not really
getting through to them whereit's like letting them off the
hook.
What battles am I gonna picktoday?
Are we gonna focus on gettingout the door on time or are we
really gonna care that there'sstill, three water glasses in
her room and it's really, Youwere the one having the
(24:29):
conversation with yourself,which would you be most open to?
If somebody was like, Hey, yougotta do a, B, C, and kind of
constantly feel like you'rebarking orders.
That person's gonna be like, Ican't deal.
So it's sort of meeting themwhere they are.
And I think.
Just being open to not having tocontrol all those things At the
end of the day, if you remindthem and things don't get done,
(24:51):
then it's also them learningthat consequence of like, oh
shoot, maybe mom was right and Ishould have done X, Y, and Z.
And now I have that experiencein my brain of being able to
know what happened last time.
So it might make the choice forthem easier for next time.
Robin (25:05):
Right.
I think that's a really goodpoint.
And you also have to have thepresence of mind to even
remember that, right?
Yeah.
As if you're you're mad becauseyou know, she threw her clothes
on the floor.
Again, she came in, she didn'tsay hello.
She just stormed off to herroom.
Probably some friend drama goingon, but she's not gonna tell you
about it.
(25:26):
Then your POed because she knowsshe's supposed to do these
things and we don't always evenhave the presence of mind to
kind of take a pause, take abreath and say, okay, this isn't
about the same old thinghappening over and over again.
Let me investigate.
Let me take a pause step backand see first of all, what I'm
(25:50):
feeling and if that'sappropriate.
And second of all, Does thisremind me of anything like did
we go through this before?
And I handled it wrong.
How could I handle itdifferently?
So that leads me to sort of thefifth part of the mother
daughter code, which is I have ajournaling program.
It's kind of like a minicoursewithin the program journaling,
(26:12):
you know, I get this all thetime.
People say, I'm not a writer.
Well, you don't have to be awriter it's for you.
you can do a list if that's whatall that comes to mind.
You can doodle and draw it.
If it's not something you wannawrite out, but just setting down
those feelings so that youremember.
So just like you said, whathappened last time that I could
do different this time?
Well, if you don't remember lasttime, if you didn't write it
(26:36):
down, if.
You know, then you can't call itto mind when you need it in
order to change the story.
So it's tapping into our ownstory and the story of that
dynamic with our daughter.
And then how do you change thestory, which is the sixth key,
changing the story.
Sometimes it is you changing thestory and then it changes the
(26:59):
whole dynamic with her, right.
Even if she isn't on board withdoing a program with you like
this mother daughter code, cuzwe can do things together as
mothers and daughters as part ofthe mother daughter code.
But even if she's not on boardfor that, but she might not be
at that age.
It's like that's mom's thing.
But if she sees those changeshappening in you, then it's
(27:21):
gonna change the relationship.
She's gonna notice because she'stuned into everything that's
going.
Right with you.
She's gonna say, whoa, thatnever happened before.
What's going on here.
That's an opportunity to haveanother kind of conversation.
It can lead to a differentoutcome.
Ashley (27:42):
So, which I like that it's sort of reminding parents
of that.
Just because it was this, thistime doesn't mean that, that has
to be the ongoing thing that wedo have room to grow and change.
As a mom of the 15 year old,it's really easy to get your
feelings hurt because it's like,you just love them so much.
And you're like, I'm just herefor you.
Like just let me help that it'sso hard to remember that their
(28:06):
behavior and their actions, evenif it comes across as like,
mean, or potentially rude, mostof the time.
They're not really trying to belike that.
I know, from my perspective,it's trying to remove sort of
the feelings out of it.
It's almost remembering thatthey're like less cute toddlers
in a sense that it's like,you're getting the tantrums
again.
You're getting like the bigfeelings.
Right.
And if they're behaving in acertain way, it really doesn't
(28:28):
necessarily have to be like,Because you ask them to clean
the room or, all of these thingscan kind of come outta nowhere.
And it's just remembering to notget your feelings hurt, which
again is so much easier saidthan done.
Robin (28:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
One of my favorite memes is ahead of a teen kind of a
cartoonish with the top cutoff.
And you see all the workingsinside and the, headline is work
in progress.
Yeah.
Remembering that, they're notmini adults and they're not
grown up 10 year olds either,but they are refining and
(29:02):
learning and trying new thingsand taking on new identities to
see how that feels and the wholepeer thing.
Is a really big deal.
It's so hard.
There's a lot of drama, as Iknow, I'm sure you, you have
found out with your daughter,but that's the time when she
might not tell you everything,but you can offer to be there.
(29:25):
Yeah.
And you can say, I'm not gonnajudge you.
I'm here to lend an ear.
If you wanna talk, if you don't,that's fine.
But I understand cuz I rememberwhen I was growing up and that's
going to be the eye roll time.
Right.
That's when he gets when I growup, my best friend did this and
I was so upset that I didn'teven wanna go to school for a
(29:46):
week because that was so hard.
It's just taking that where youdon't put her on the spot, but
she just listen, you just openthe door and say so what's going
on.
Can I help listen and would thathelp?
And sometimes it won't becauseyou know, these things change,
(30:06):
but it's just the idea that sheknows you're there.
And the other thing is that whenyou were talking about being
rude, they are practicingboundaries that they can.
Put in place for themselves, butalso with their friends.
She knows that she can be rudeto you and you're still gonna be
there cuz you love her so muchand she loves you too, but she
(30:31):
can do things in the familyrelationship that she would
never do with her friends,because that is such a tenuous
relationship.
So sometimes it's swallowingyour pride a little bit and
saying, I know this is not aboutme.
This is just normal.
This is gonna pass hopefully.
I can still be here and not takeon her anger or her frustration
(30:53):
or her feeling of self of,worthlessness or whatever the
feeling is that she's reallyexpressing underneath.
Ashley (30:59):
Yeah, now I know we kind of talked about the parent
section in the mother-daughtercode, but there is actually a
teen section part of yourprogram too,
Robin (31:06):
We can do it in any one of a number of ways where we
either have mothers anddaughters taking on some of
these things together.
Or there's a section just forteens where mom is not involved,
where it's a place for them tohang out and be themselves.
And that they can talk about thethings about perhaps the
(31:28):
relationship.
With their mother that arefrustrating for them.
And it's not gonna cause aconfrontation because we keep
that separate.
It's confidential.
It's just for them.
It's having that safe space.
It's a little bit guided in thesense that I can be an objective
third party and they feel likethey can talk or listen in a way
(31:49):
that they couldn't with.
Ashley (31:51):
Which I think is so important too, because I think
going back to the over parentinga little bit, we take on that
ownership that we have to beeverything to our kids and that
they should come to us for allof these things.
But I think it's so great forteens to have multiple
responsible adults that they cango to or mentors that they can
turn to so that they're getting,different opinions or different
(32:14):
skills from different people.
But I think that that tool isreally important to include as.
Robin (32:20):
Absolutely.
I don't deal with the situationsthat are really traumatic or,
I'm not a mental healthcounselor.
I deal with it more from thestandpoint of a healthy dynamic.
Yeah.
That just problematic in thistime period.
It's not that you've gone crazyor she's gone crazy.
It's normal.
There's this tension that didn'texist before and you might not
(32:40):
expect it and she might notexpect it.
How do we deal with.
Separately or together or both.
I'm not a therapist and I wouldrefer out somebody who had a
serious problem, like a drugproblem, or, a trauma of some
kind or an abusive situationgoing on.
I wouldn't take that on, but Ido think that having mentors,
(33:01):
having others.
In your life who can help roundyou out and can give you a
different perspective is reallyvaluable because to expect a
parent, to be everything just asyou said, and do everything and
know everything is just totallyunrealistic.
I mean, it's not fair and wetake that on ourselves.
(33:23):
If you think back.
Historically, we grew up in, youknow, if you wanna call it a
tribe or a neighborhood or areligious group or extended
families were together and theyhad lots of different people to
go to where they could checksomething out or they could get
a different perspective onthings.
And we could too, you know, andsometimes our friend groups can
(33:45):
still do that.
But sometimes our friends aregoing through the same things
with their daughters and they'relike, I don't know, I tried this
and that didn't work, or, didyou ask her about this?
And I'm like, no, I'm nevergonna ask her about that.
Because last time I did, it waslike, boom, there was an
explosion.
But if you have sort ofdifferent age groups, you have
different family relationships,or even as you said, mentoring
(34:07):
relationships that you can bringtogether.
It could be a counselor or ateacher at school, you know, it
could be a neighbor.
it doesn't have to be you allthe time.
That's such a big burden.
It's such a big responsibility.
And I think it's unfair.
It goes back to that.
Good enough parenting idea, weput this burden on ourselves and
it's just so unfair because it'sunrealistic.
(34:30):
Not one person cannot beeverything to another person.
So we should stop makingourselves think that that is
what we have to do.
Ashley (34:39):
Absolutely.
We need to, like you said, letourselves off the hook and focus
on what we can do and let thatbe good enough.
And it's so funny because I feellike, and every kid's age, this
could happen at a differenttime, but there's like that
small window of time where thelessons that you are trying to
learn, whether it's, you know,don't drink and drive.
(35:01):
Don't you know, cheat on a testor whatever the thing may be.
I feel like there's a smallwindow of time where they'll
actually listen to what we'resaying and kind of take it to
heart.
But so if that lesson is comingfrom a teacher in class, And it
just hits at the right time.
It really can shift theirperspective.
It's appreciating all the peoplethat could bring these lessons
(35:21):
to your kids.
That again are just regular lifelessons.
It doesn't have to be like a bigtrauma or something where
professional help is needed, butit's just appreciating that
these lessons can come fromanywhere and really just being
open to, I guess, other peopleproviding them.
Robin (35:37):
It's also a little bit of checking in too, right?
Because the peer thing is sostrong in adolescence.
So if they're getting all theiradvice from their best friend or
the new boyfriend, that's awhole other thing or social
media, more likely it's worthdoing a check in to see if
(35:57):
that's true.
Ashley (35:58):
When we're relying on teenagers giving other teenagers
information, it's like you haveno idea what silly information
it could come from.
So I think it's really in ourhousehold anyways, it's a really
teaching them that you are gonnamess up and there's gonna be
things along the way that don'tgo well.
(36:19):
I may not like those choicesthat you make and there may be
consequences to those choices,but it's like always feel that
I'm here for you basically, and,being really open to them to be
willing to have those awkwardconversations or those
challenging conversations.
And just really trying yourhardest to be a safe space.
Even if you know thoseconversations, don't always feel
(36:41):
easy or, comfortable for theparent to have.
Robin (36:44):
Right.
Yeah.
And how hard is that right?
To have some of thoseconversations.
It seems like there are more ofthem today.
When I was growing up, it was,don't get into a car with a
stranger.
There are so many other waysthat we try to protect our kids
today.
Cuz there's so many otherpossible threats.
Online bullies, you know, inthis school who knows, and we do
(37:06):
our best to keep our kids safe,but we also have to give them
the skills and some of this Icall tapping into your inner
self for them as well, not justyour own inner five year old,
but their inner knowing.
That we often overlook right inour world.
What is our gut saying?
(37:26):
So stopping to think is thatperson really on my side would
my mom really send somebody elseto pick me up at school?
I don't think so.
I'm not getting in the car withthem or you know, is this boy
really?
You know, he says he loves meand he wants to be my boyfriend.
Well, I've only known him for 25minutes.
(37:48):
yeah.
How true can that be?
And, and of course at that age,you get swept away and you wanna
believe certain things are true.
And so that's also allure, butteaching her to check in with
her gut, like what does thatfeel like to you?
Is it feel safe?
Does it feel like who you reallyare or you play acting now?
(38:08):
Are you trying to be like so andso, because she thinks she's
cool and she's part of the incrowd and you wanna be like her,
or is it something that isreally true for you and giving
them the strength to pause andtake a breath?
Just like you need to pause andtake a breath before you react.
(38:29):
I think a really valuablelesson.
And I think it's one that wedon't even think about teaching.
Ashley (38:35):
I think we sometimes will Gaslight ourselves when it
comes to intuition and I feellike we really need to trust it
more and, like you said, teachour kids to really look at that.
What is that little voice insideyour head saying?
Is it telling you like, I don'tthink so.
Or are you getting that weirdfeeling in your gut and really
trusting those?
Because I feel like especiallyas little kids, they.
(38:59):
will wholeheartedly trust thatand, you know, go, oh, I don't
like that person.
Or, you know, that person isoffering me candy.
I'm not gonna get into their carwhere I feel like as we get a
little bit older, we tend tosecond guess ourselves a little
bit more and tend to not wannatrust that voice.
So I think it is an importantskill set to try to teach our
teens.
Robin (39:19):
Yeah.
Or even, you know, the bestfriend you had when you were in
fifth grade and now in seventhgrade, she is doing some riskier
things and wants you to comealong.
I don't know.
Do you wanna think about thatbefore you just say, okay, I'm
gonna go with you to the mall orI'm gonna go with you and we're
(39:39):
gonna hang out.
And there's a cute guy there,and I'm gonna start, you know,
vaping or something, whateverthat story is, it might be that
that person has also changed inways that you don't feel
comfortable with.
So what is that your comfortzone?
Is telling you it's true foryou, and it might not be the
(40:00):
best idea to go with that formerbest friend who's now into
things that maybe are not thingsthat you would normally indulge
in yourself.
Ashley (40:10):
Which I think is a really good lesson.
And I think it's so hard whenthey're younger, because their
friends seem like the end all beall where these friendships
really, do run their coursemaybe after a year or just
because you are friends at thispoint doesn't mean that it's,
you know, they're gonna be thebridesmaids at your wedding or
whatever the case may be.
So it's being confident enoughto be able to cut those
(40:30):
friendships.
Robin (40:31):
Yeah.
That's true.
That's true.
These are hard things.
It's not black and white.
It's not absolutely.
It's not that there's a rulethat if this happens, you do
this.
And as you said, it's havingthat roadmap for your
relationship with your daughterwhen she reaches these years.
Maybe the roadmap, even if youstart creating it between
(40:52):
yourselves, you, and hertogether, or you started out and
check with her to see if this istrue or.
not For 15 year old, it might betrue.
And for at 16 it might not betrue anymore.
Ashley (41:06):
Absolutely.
And that's sort of where thehard part of like parenting
comes in, cuz there isn'tnecessarily this perfect, you
know, advice book of like, thisis what's gonna happen on this
day and what's gonna happen onthat day.
So I think it's really great tohave a book like yours where
it's shifting our conversationto be like it can look like this
this time, but you know, beopen.
(41:28):
You know, turning into somethingdifferent or being something
different.
And I think any resources thatwe have for sort of 10 up are so
great, because I feel like thereis a little bit of lacking in
that department as, just sort ofa technique of how to help.
Robin (41:46):
Getting back to this idea of brain science, you know,
adolescent brains, teen brainswhat we understand about the
development.
At this age, it's changing somuch because there are new
research tools with, brainscanning and things like that,
where we can actually see what'sgoing on when they're engaged in
risky behavior.
And, what areas of the brainlight up that might sound like.
(42:07):
Totally theoretical, but it doesgive us an idea of why they are
sensation seeking.
For example, at this age, inthis time period, or why peers
are so important in their lives,it just gives us a new insight
and new tools.
And so that's why I'mcontinually following the
research on teen braindevelopment and psychology and
(42:27):
things like that because we'rediscovering more and more about
how.
Humans develop in general, butthis, period of time is just so
fruitful.
It's just so fascinating.
And it is so rewarding, as you.
See them blossom as you see themtaking on new roles and
responsibilities for themselves,or even as you see them, trying
(42:50):
something that they would neverhave done before, even if it's
like eating an artichoke thatthey would never have done when
they were little.
Those are, little moments tocelebrate.
I think we forget about thecelebration sometimes.
Ashley (43:01):
Yeah.
I definitely agree with that.
There are really fantasticthings about having teenagers.
It's like, There's that sayingthat when kids are little it's
like that, the days are long andthe years are short.
Well kind of, as they become ateenager, you really realize how
fast it all goes.
I just feel like yesterday shewas going off to kindergarten
(43:21):
and now she's starting grade 10,that it really does go so fast.
It's nice to have somebody whocan get themselves ready.
For school in the morning, Idon't have to really prompt her
to do things like that.
We'll like the same movies andwe can go have like a movie date
together or go out for dinner.
I, don't have to make sure she'sgoing to the bathroom with me
because she can sit alone at thetable and all of these things
(43:41):
that.
You don't get the ability to dowith them when they're really,
really little, that there's somany fun things about having a
teenager like you said, we dotend to focus more on some of
the annoying things that they door how challenging it is or how
expensive it is and all of thesethings where there is a ton of
great things about havingteenager.
Robin (44:02):
It is.
And they have opinions that aresometimes really interesting to
hear about you might not alwaysagree with them, and sometimes
they're gonna be in conflictwith what you think or what you
want her to agree with you onthere's challenges.
But just to see those brainskind of open up and.
Have the new thoughts andintroduce new ideas.
(44:24):
And they may come up with thingsthat we wouldn't necessarily
think of from their perspective.
I love these gen Z kids becausein a way they're very
vulnerable.
They're much more open andreceptive.
They've come through some reallytough times, covid and we had.
2020 with all of the politicaland racial and other strife, but
(44:45):
they're passionate about it.
I mean, they're inheriting aworld from us that is.
Really pivoting in big ways andwe don't know what that's gonna
look like, so that can lookscary, that can feel
threatening, but to empower themto be the ones who are finding
solutions for cancer orpreventing the next pandemic or
(45:08):
thinking about what AI is gonnado in people's lives, in the
future.
But thinking about it in a waythat taps into their sort of
moral center.
And they do have their own moralcenter.
And they'll tell you all aboutit.
It's something to celebrate.
It's something to encouragebecause this is how they evolve
into thinking and caring andEthical adults.
(45:29):
So having those kinds ofconversations is another way
that we can celebrate they'recoming into a more mature phase
of life and as rough as it canbe their journey to adulthood.
We're on the same journey.
I'm not a teenager obviously,and I'm not a millennial I'm a
boomer and I'm much more on theAn older phase of development,
(45:51):
but I am so excited because Iget to learn.
I get to work with people.
I get to try new things everyday.
It's a lifelong skill.
When you instill it in them,when they're young, when you get
them enthusiastic or curious inasking questions, even if you
don't like the questions thatthey ask, but encourage the
questions because that's gonnamake them thinking and
(46:13):
considerate and caring adultsand the other quality of
character that I like to stresswhen I'm working with parents in
particular of teens.
Is this idea of empathy and Ithink this gen Z has it in
spades as caring about others,caring about the environment,
caring about our neighbors,caring about other people in the
(46:36):
family and putting ourselves intheir shoes and them putting
themselves in other shoesbecause to really.
Promote the kind of change we'regonna need as the 2020s and
beyond is going to requirereally understanding and
relating to, and being open andtolerant of other people's
(46:59):
opinions and other situations inthe world.
Ashley (47:03):
Which is kind of the plus side of technology.
It tends to kind of get a badrep, but that's the fantastic
thing about this generation isthat they have access to
learning about climate change ina different way.
They have access to meetingdifferent people and different
cultures than them that theywould never, ever.
In their own communities had theoption necessarily to do
(47:24):
focusing on anti-racism beingmore open to L G B T Q plus
people.
All of these things where Ireally do think even compared to
my generation, that the nextgeneration has that in spades
where they kind of have like ano nonsense, no bullshit aspect
of it, where they were like, Iknow climate change is real.
So let's make sure that doesn'thappen again.
(47:45):
And they are more.
I think brave in their opinionsto vocalize some of these things
and really wanna be that change.
And I'm super excited to see,what they do with that
Robin (47:57):
They're forming organizations that are doing
amazing things, they're on theground getting involved in,
helping to educate people aboutclimate change or gun violence
or some of these other reallybig.
Thorney problems.
We have been facing in ourcountry for a very long time,
but they're doing it they'reorganizing in their own way and
(48:17):
they can because of technologyyou're right.
They can organize in ways thatolder generations could not
they're so interconnected, theycan do it on social media.
They can text each other.
They can get people mobilized innew ways.
And I just think it's so great..
Ashley (48:34):
I really appreciate you having this conversation with me
tonight.
If anybody is looking for youonline, where can they find you?
Robin (48:41):
So they can find me at edgeofyesterday.com.
And social media, of course,Instagram TikTok.
I'm really active on TikTok.
Believe it or not, it's so muchfun to be an older person
working in the younger person'splatform
Ashley (48:55):
awesome.
Thank you so much.
Robin (48:58):
It's great talking to you, Ashley.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of The
Filled Up Cup podcast.
Don't forget to hit subscribeand leave a review.
If you like what you hear.
You can also connect with us atfilledupcup.com.
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next
(49:19):
episode.
Welcome to the Filled Up Cuppodcast.
We are a different kind ofself-care resource.
One that has nothing to do withbubble baths and face masks, and
everything to do withrediscovering yourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences, and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most
(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.
Ashley (00:32):
I am so excited.
I have Robin Steven Paynejoining me today.
She is the author of the sciencefiction series edge of
yesterday.
She's also a mom of three, acoach, and a mentor.
Her newest book is the motherdaughter code.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Robin (00:47):
Thanks for having me, Ashley.
I'm excited to be here.
Ashley (00:50):
Can you let everybody know sort of what to expect with
the mother-daughter code?
What its about?
Robin (00:56):
Sure.
This is something that has in away grown out of my writing
these book series.
And of course, out of my being amom my, kids are all grown
adults now, but we went throughthose hard times when they were
teens.
I found, especially with mydaughter, that, the dynamic
changes when they get to be 10or 11 and suddenly they're not.
(01:20):
That I don't wanna say compliantbecause it's never compliant,
but that receptive, excited girlthat you got to enjoy when she
was kind of before middleschool, they challenge you,
right?
Not just accepting everythingyou say.
And so it was a dynamic thatreally confused me when my
daughter was that age inparticular, not that my sons
(01:42):
didn't go through those moments,but especially with my daughter.
And so it really was thepropulsion that drove me to
write the edge of yesterdayseries was when my daughter was
entering those preteen years,and I was listening in, on their
back seat conversations becauseyou know how.
As a carpooling mom, you get tohear things you wouldn't hear
otherwise from your daughter andher friends, and they don't
(02:05):
think you're there.
You know, they think you'reinvisible.
I was taking notes and it wasreally a challenge for me.
And one of the things that cameup at that time for me was the
fact that, well, there were twothings.
Really.
One of the things that came upfor me was that girls in
particular, Have this reallydifficult transition that they
(02:26):
make in middle school and laterwhere they might have been
bubbly and forthcoming asyounger, children or, younger
girls.
But when they reach that age,they suddenly get to be
self-conscious.
They suddenly maybe pull back.
They're not sure about boys andrelationships and it causes a
(02:46):
lot of changes, I would say inhow at least for my daughter and
her friends, it changes how theypresent themselves in their
confidence in a lot of waystakes a hit.
And so I created a female teencharacter who I went to embody
all of the qualities that Ihoped to imbue in my daughter at
(03:08):
the time, and also to get mysons as they were entering that
age to respect.
that girls can be strong.
They can be assertive, they canbe smart and they can be
respected, and it's up to theboys at that point, as they are
getting to be teens themselves,to understand that here's a
(03:28):
force to be reckoned with, andshe's not backing down,
Ashley (03:32):
which I think is so important because I feel like
whether it's subconscious orwhether it's just sort of the
programming that we've had.
Do tend to use strong or fastfor boys and it's, you know,
you're so pretty or you are sonice when it comes to women.
So it is so great to have thatmessaging that we both can be
fast.
(03:52):
We both can be strong without ithaving to have some negative or
bad connotation attached to it.
Robin (03:59):
Yeah, exactly.
And it's really interestingbecause I've come to look at
fairy tales as kind of thearchetype for at least in the
west for what we expect girls tobe, you know, girls are passive,
the prince is gonna rescue you.
He's going to take you out ofthe trance, snow white.
(04:19):
Right.
But what if that's just notnecessarily true?
What if we are our own savior, Idon't wanna use that word in the
grandiose space, but what if wehave the capacity to be our own
advocates to really be confidentand competent in ourselves.
And how do you translate thatidea when it's so ingrained from
(04:43):
early childhood on, you know, ifyou look at fairy tales that we
read our kids, when they'relittle, how do you transform
that idea when they get to besort of.
Tweens or teens middle schooland beyond how do we make that
story come alive for them andreally give them that spark of
confidence to be their ownheroes.
Ashley (05:03):
I really do think that is a really important point
because from an early age we'resold on, you know, that pretty,
pretty princess syndrome andwaiting for prince charming.
And, you know, sometimes thereis a prince charming, but
sometimes there just isn't.
So if we do spend all of ourtime waiting for somebody to fix
things or waiting to fix thingsthat really aren't broken and
really to find that confidencein ourselves can be so
(05:24):
challenging.
But I think it's so importantthat we start feeding that
messaging into young peoplebecause it is such a hard time
and is so challenging.
I think sometimes as grown upsor, or parents.
We sometimes forget what achallenging and hard phase it is
for them and how they have allthis mixed messages.
Plus the self confidence issuesplus hormones, plus just the
(05:47):
neurological brain developmentand all of these things that
it's sometimes hard to remembereverything that they are dealing
with.
Robin (05:56):
Yeah, totally.
And it's more intense now,right?
With social media, you know, ifthey're scrolling through their
Instagram and everyone else isprettier, everyone else has the
boyfriend, boy, that just givesthem such a wall up to their
self esteem.
And so then they start making upwho they should be or who they
think they should be.
And it doesn't necessarily comefrom inside them.
(06:17):
Like the cues that we get arethe clues that we get are so
much external now that it's hardto be able to tune into the
internal clues that really helpguide us personally, you know,
that are our own story.
And so I use stories andstorytelling as kind of the
entry point to finding both theway to navigate or to help our
(06:39):
daughters and our children ingeneral.
It's not just the girls.
But our children navigate that.
Really fraught period in theirlives.
As you say, it's hormones, it'sbrain science, it's peer
pressure, all of those thingssocial media pressure.
But through our stories, Likethe fairy tale, how do we change
the ending?
(07:00):
Or how do we even change thebeginning so that we're
empowering our girls, but alsoAshley ourselves.
How do we empower ourselves asmoms to really be that example
to mentor our daughters andtheir friends, to show the
example that you can be strong,that you can be assertive, that
(07:21):
you can still be.
A good person.
You can still be respected andyou can still feel good in
yourself.
These are the kinds of questionsthat come up, which I think is
really.
Really important as well.
Cause I think sometimes, and youhad kind of talked about how,
you know, those 10 and 11, thoseyears, all of a sudden, they
just creep up on you.
And all of a sudden you havelike this completely different
(07:43):
little person that you aretrying to be there for.
And I feel like the relationshipdynamic changes and it changes
so fast and suddenly that itbecomes, you know, you're still
trying to take care of them andmonitor them, but it becomes
less of a.
You know, brush your teeth, goto bed.
thing that it is when they'rereally little or, hold my hand
(08:03):
as across the street versus Ihave to now kind of guide you
and back off a little bit sothat you can make your own
mistakes.
And I feel like especiallymyself as a parent, it's such a
challenging step back because itdoes happen so quickly for us to
kind of realize that they don'tneed us in the same capacity.
And that's okay.
(08:25):
and that word you use to guideis the word that I try to
emphasize when I'm working withmoms and teens, because we are
not in control of them.
Yeah.
And much less.
So when they're teens, ofcourse, than when they're
younger.
So we can serve as guides.
We can serve as role models andmentors, but we cannot tell them
(08:47):
this is who you have to be.
That is for them to discover.
And the other thing that I thinkthat we overemphasize in parts
of our culture in this countryanyway, is that we have to
protect them.
That is your job as a parent,but also they have to learn how
(09:09):
to suffer.
Proportionally to their capacityto be able to so suffering a
little bit.
When you're young gives you thatresilience, it shows you can
bounce back.
So that when you get older, youcan handle the bigger problems,
because if you don't get that insteps, when you're growing up,
(09:30):
then you hit the bump, you know,where you're off at college.
Mom and dad have done everythingfor you.
You've gotten all the trophies,right.
And suddenly you're not thesmartest anymore, or you're not
the best in soccer Or somebodyelse is challenging your belief
system.
If you are not prepared for thatfrom a younger age, sort of in
(09:50):
an evolutionary way, then boom,that really that's a big herd at
that point, a big hit, and it'smuch harder to bounce back from
that.
I've done a lot of work intranslational neuroscience, I'm
a science writer too.
And so brain science is.
Particular fascination to me.
And especially for adolescents,I say, I study teen brains and
write about teen brains.
(10:11):
Because that is a time whenthere's so much going on in
their heads and in their heartsin their lives.
But it's a time really when wehave to give them the skills to
be resilient.
I came to this brain sciencething when my kids were
teenagers too.
(10:33):
I often say if I could timetravel back to when they were
little, the one thing that Iwould want to instill in them is
resilience.
Because if there's one qualitythat will serve you through a
lifetime, it's being able tobounce back from adversity.
And there is no one who getsthrough life without adversity.
I'm sure you have seen thatyourself.
Ashley (10:52):
I think, my generation being, I guess, like an elder
millennial, or sort of that agegap of things, I feel like we
tended to over correct a littlebit and almost lean into that
helicopter parenting where wekind of were like, we'll do all
of the things and we'll bubblewrap you and will help you.
I think did that disservicewhere it was like our helping
(11:15):
really didn't give them theskills to necessarily be able to
be as independent as they needto.
Like, I.
So many people tend to be scaredof failure or think of it as
like this big thing wheresometimes our failures can
really lead us to really greatskill sets or a really great
lesson, or pivot us in a waythat this didn't work out.
(11:38):
But now I know I have theability to do this.
Let's try it this way.
Robin (11:42):
Yeah.
I'm a mentor in where I live, wehave a very active group of
women in technology, and there'sa girls in technology program.
I've been a mentor with girls intechnology for.
Five or six years now.
And we always lead a session tomentor these proteges about
failure.
How do you fail and succeedagain?
(12:02):
And so one of the stories that Ilove the most is Thomas Edison
did not fail.
999 ways to create a light bulb.
He just learned 999 ways not tomake a light bulb.
So I love that it's that idea ofpersistence and, you know,
failure can lead to success.
(12:23):
Sometimes the success doesn'tlook at all like what you want
it to or what you think itshould.
But being open and receptive tothat is really I think its own
skillset.
Ashley (12:32):
I definitely agree with that.
Now getting back to sort of themother daughter code, what are
some of the keys that yourecommend that people think
about while they're taking theprogram?
Robin (12:43):
So there are six keys that I have to unlocking the
mother daughter code so the sixkeys to a better you and her
together.
The first key is why is shedoing this to me?
Or here we go again.
I sort of have both of thoseframeworks in mind.
So here we go again, is thatidea that we feel like we are
(13:05):
nagging her to death, right?
Pick up your clothes, get readyfor school.
Don't forget your homework.
You did you make your lunch?
Are you gonna get to the bus ontime?
You know, how often do we findourselves reminding her?
It seems like a broken record,right?
It happens all the time, butwhat if there is something in
(13:27):
her that is developmentallyappropriate that keeps her from
focusing in on what we think isimportant.
So a little bit of this, here wego again.
What is she doing to me?
Why is she doing this to me?
Is tuning into where she isdevelopmentally.
And what is appropriatesometimes it's not appropriate.
(13:48):
Sometimes it's a bad habit orshe's lost in her Instagram or
she fell asleep on the phone toher best friend so sometimes
it's not the right thing, butoftentimes if we're listening to
our daughters, we can hear them.
If we are really curious and askher what's going on with you.
And have the trust and thecommunication open with her,
(14:11):
then we will learn somethingabout why this is happening over
and over.
Maybe it's just making her bedand cleaning up.
Her room is just not thatimportant to her.
Maybe she's got three examscoming up the next day and she
just was too tired to get to it.
So a lot of this is goodlistening skills.
A lot of this is remindingourselves what it's like to be
(14:34):
that age.
And also just knowing what'sdevelopmentally appropriate.
So that's one of the keys is,you know, here we go again.
The thing that I like to remindmothers, you mentioned the
helicopter mom we have all ofthese names for over parenting.
I like the phrase.
Good enough.
Mothering.
So we're not perfect, right?
(14:55):
She's not perfect.
And to expect perfection is justimpossible and it leaves us
always questioning ourselves andour parenting skills, but it
also leaves her thinking.
We're she's never good enough.
So this idea of good enoughparenting or good enough
mothering is being accepting ofwhere she is and where you are.
(15:21):
Because that's gonna change overtime.
That dynamic is always changing,but sort of being receptive to
the fact that perfection is notour goal here.
It's being good enough fromwhere we are at that moment.
So good enough.
Mothering is the second keytapping the creativity code.
So one of the things that I havenoticed, especially working with
(15:43):
the teens who I've mentored, andI have a group of interns who
works with me for edge ofyesterday, which is the book
series.
Who I teach writing skills to.
It's sort of a jobapprenticeship in a way is that
we have taught ourselves and ourkids that creativity is a bad
(16:03):
thing.
And what do I mean by that inschool?
You have to have the answer it'seither, right.
or wrong.
Sometimes there's a gray area,right?
Sometimes, I mean, it could bean essay in question and that
gives you a little more leeway,but we emphasize that there's a
right way of thinking.
(16:23):
We are guilty of this in our ownlives too.
We've sort of had the creativityraised out of us in a way.
So if you look at youngchildren, what do they do?
They play right.
And they create crazy things..
And sometimes it's justnonsense.
Sometimes they're, you know,coloring on the walls and you're
like really POed because whatare you doing that for?
(16:47):
Sometimes if we give them theright tools, like paper and
crayons and teach them not towrite on the walls, they are
creating amazing things that arehelping their brains, make new
connections and grow.
We have the capacity.
As adults to re-tap into ourinner five year old to play and
(17:09):
create, but also to teach ourteens, that it's okay to play as
a teenager, it's okay to play asan adult.
If you're not playing, you'relosing a really important skill
that kind of makes life morefun, more interesting, but also
helps solve problems.
Right?
How often do we hear that intoday's economy?
(17:30):
You need to learn to be aproblem solver, but we don't
give.
our young people, the tools incertainly not in school and
often not at home either wherethey can make new connections or
they can collaborate with otherpeople in ways that are outside
the box thinking.
So the creativity code is onecomponent and that's a part of
(17:52):
the mother-daughter code that wespend a little time creating.
One of the things that I love todo is called the paperclip
challenge.
If you think of a paperclip, itcould be any color, but silver
paperclip, right?
Who comes up with age wise, whocan come up with the most ways
to use a paper?
Brainstorm that?
(18:12):
What would you use the paperclipfor?
Ashley (18:15):
I love sort of thinking about it.
Cause it is so simple.
You could use it potentially tohang things even on your wall,
like art, you could use it in atraditional sense, like grouping
paper that the, options reallyare endless.
If you open your mind them.
Robin (18:29):
Yeah.
So five year olds have the mostways that they come up with
using paperclips.
There are a hundred ways thatthis is an actual research
experiment.
That's been done a hundred waysthat a five year old can use a
paperclip.
It could be closed, it could beearrings.
It could be a ring around yourfinger.
Options are endless by the timethey're seven, it's 50.
(18:50):
They come up with 50 ideas bythe time they're in fourth
grade, it's maybe 20.
And by the time we get to highschool, it might be five or 10.
And by the time we adults comeup with it, you know, it's well,
what do you do with paperclips?
Of course you clip paperstogether, but we don't even stop
to think about what otheroptions there are, cuz that
would be silly.
(19:10):
But what if being silly isreally part of.
How to make life more joyous.
And I feel like joy is somethingthat we're missing a lot out in
life for ourselves and for ourkids.
Ashley (19:23):
I definitely agree with that.
I think especially in the lastcouple years trapped in like the
hustle culture and we're all soburned out and just sort of
trying to keep our head abovethe water that it's like, we did
forget, what makes me happyduring the day, what's something
I really enjoy doing.
What's something where I canplay and kind of get back to
that inner child.
It kind of becomes thisregimented thing where it's
(19:44):
like, we weren't meant to justlive and, go home.
Yeah.
Robin (19:48):
So think about when you were five years old, Ashley,
what was something that youloved to do?
Ashley (19:55):
I feel like I had imaginary friends and loved
playing with dolls.
I think that was like my go to,
Robin (20:02):
okay.
So what if you were to do thatas an adult?
Ashley (20:06):
Well, I feel like I've sort of subbed imaginary friends
for like talking to new peopleall the time.
So I kind of get to you aredoing it that way.
And then the dolls, I just, notso much anymore, but yeah.
So I think it's leaning intothose things.
What sort of spark joy, whatbrings those passions back?
Robin (20:24):
Yeah.
Well, I even think about, when Iwas maybe seven or eight, I
wanted be an Olympic figureskater.
So I took ice skating lessonsfor a long time.
And then.
Became clearer.
After a while that I was notgonna be an Olympic skater, but
I still like to go skatingsometimes.
And why not?
(20:44):
And why, why not take yourdaughter along with you or why
not indulge in one of the thingsthat she feels passionate about?
Maybe it's doing a trash pickupday.
Why not engage in something withher that you guys can do
together?
That's gonna build that bondbetween mothers and daughters.
It's not about you wanting herto do something or what you
think is gonna make hersuccessful, but it's about
(21:06):
indulging sort of the thingsthat she cares about that maybe
she wouldn't think you wouldwanna do with her but sharing
that moment would just create anew memory.
The third key is, and this Ifeel is really important I call
it mothering yourself.
So what are those childhoodwounds or those moments that we
(21:29):
missed ourselves growing up thatbecause our mothers didn't know
or didn't listen or were toobusy or had to work all the time
and couldn't be there.
What are those moments that wefeel.
Hurt us.
And how much of that are weprojecting onto our daughter?
(21:51):
So the capacity and this kind ofgets back to the turning the
fairytale into a femaleempowerment story is we can go
back and mother ourselvesthrough those wounds.
What does that look like?
Ashley (22:03):
Healing is so important because I feel like again,
whether we realize it or whetherit's so subconscious, we do end
up bringing things.
From our childhood forwardthings that could have seemed
very simple in the moment.
And then we've kind of twistedor made it seem like something
else that now is creating shameor guilt.
And I feel like being a mom, wealways kind of talk about mom
(22:25):
guilt.
And a lot of that is like, Notnecessarily things that our kids
are doing to us, but more thingsthat we project in and kind of
create in our own head where Ithink any time that we can
eliminate that guilt or reallyget back to the root of why it
exists in the first place is soimportant.
Robin (22:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So mothering yourself is veryimportant and, I'm glad you
brought up that word guilt.
I was looking at a studyrecently that said that Parents
spend most of their time whenthey're not doing something with
their child or for their childguilty about what they didn't do
or something they did wrong.
And that kind of ties into thegood enough parenting idea as
(23:04):
well.
First of all, we feel guiltythat we didn't give our.
Daughter, our child, everythingthat we know she needed or that
we thought would help her.
And part of it is also that wedidn't get that.
We weren't modeled that aschildren.
And so how would we even know?
And then why would she feelguilty about something you
(23:25):
couldn't possibly know?
It's very much intertwined.
So the guilt is a very realthing and I think every parent
feels it because again, we'renot perfect.
We don't know everything that'sgoing on in her life.
And honestly, many times wedon't even know the things that
are driving us.
Ashley (23:45):
I like the fact that it kind of brings up this good
enough striving for perfection.
There really is no such thing.
So I think if we do strive forevery single day is gonna be
different.
Every single day, all we can dois try our best and hope that
our kids are receptive to whatour best looks like for that
day.
I think not only lettingourselves off the hook, but
(24:06):
letting our kids off the hook,like you had kind of talked
about in the beginning, how itcan feel like there's this back
and forth of nagging and itfeels like we're not really
getting through to them whereit's like letting them off the
hook.
What battles am I gonna picktoday?
Are we gonna focus on gettingout the door on time or are we
really gonna care that there'sstill, three water glasses in
her room and it's really, Youwere the one having the
(24:29):
conversation with yourself,which would you be most open to?
If somebody was like, Hey, yougotta do a, B, C, and kind of
constantly feel like you'rebarking orders.
That person's gonna be like, Ican't deal.
So it's sort of meeting themwhere they are.
And I think.
Just being open to not having tocontrol all those things At the
end of the day, if you remindthem and things don't get done,
(24:51):
then it's also them learningthat consequence of like, oh
shoot, maybe mom was right and Ishould have done X, Y, and Z.
And now I have that experiencein my brain of being able to
know what happened last time.
So it might make the choice forthem easier for next time.
Robin (25:05):
Right.
I think that's a really goodpoint.
And you also have to have thepresence of mind to even
remember that, right?
Yeah.
As if you're you're mad becauseyou know, she threw her clothes
on the floor.
Again, she came in, she didn'tsay hello.
She just stormed off to herroom.
Probably some friend drama goingon, but she's not gonna tell you
about it.
(25:26):
Then your POed because she knowsshe's supposed to do these
things and we don't always evenhave the presence of mind to
kind of take a pause, take abreath and say, okay, this isn't
about the same old thinghappening over and over again.
Let me investigate.
Let me take a pause step backand see first of all, what I'm
(25:50):
feeling and if that'sappropriate.
And second of all, Does thisremind me of anything like did
we go through this before?
And I handled it wrong.
How could I handle itdifferently?
So that leads me to sort of thefifth part of the mother
daughter code, which is I have ajournaling program.
It's kind of like a minicoursewithin the program journaling,
(26:12):
you know, I get this all thetime.
People say, I'm not a writer.
Well, you don't have to be awriter it's for you.
you can do a list if that's whatall that comes to mind.
You can doodle and draw it.
If it's not something you wannawrite out, but just setting down
those feelings so that youremember.
So just like you said, whathappened last time that I could
do different this time?
Well, if you don't remember lasttime, if you didn't write it
(26:36):
down, if.
You know, then you can't call itto mind when you need it in
order to change the story.
So it's tapping into our ownstory and the story of that
dynamic with our daughter.
And then how do you change thestory, which is the sixth key,
changing the story.
Sometimes it is you changing thestory and then it changes the
(26:59):
whole dynamic with her, right.
Even if she isn't on board withdoing a program with you like
this mother daughter code, cuzwe can do things together as
mothers and daughters as part ofthe mother daughter code.
But even if she's not on boardfor that, but she might not be
at that age.
It's like that's mom's thing.
But if she sees those changeshappening in you, then it's
(27:21):
gonna change the relationship.
She's gonna notice because she'stuned into everything that's
going.
Right with you.
She's gonna say, whoa, thatnever happened before.
What's going on here.
That's an opportunity to haveanother kind of conversation.
It can lead to a differentoutcome.
Ashley (27:42):
So, which I like that it's sort of reminding parents
of that.
Just because it was this, thistime doesn't mean that, that has
to be the ongoing thing that wedo have room to grow and change.
As a mom of the 15 year old,it's really easy to get your
feelings hurt because it's like,you just love them so much.
And you're like, I'm just herefor you.
Like just let me help that it'sso hard to remember that their
(28:06):
behavior and their actions, evenif it comes across as like,
mean, or potentially rude, mostof the time.
They're not really trying to belike that.
I know, from my perspective,it's trying to remove sort of
the feelings out of it.
It's almost remembering thatthey're like less cute toddlers
in a sense that it's like,you're getting the tantrums
again.
You're getting like the bigfeelings.
Right.
And if they're behaving in acertain way, it really doesn't
(28:28):
necessarily have to be like,Because you ask them to clean
the room or, all of these thingscan kind of come outta nowhere.
And it's just remembering to notget your feelings hurt, which
again is so much easier saidthan done.
Robin (28:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
One of my favorite memes is ahead of a teen kind of a
cartoonish with the top cutoff.
And you see all the workingsinside and the, headline is work
in progress.
Yeah.
Remembering that, they're notmini adults and they're not
grown up 10 year olds either,but they are refining and
(29:02):
learning and trying new thingsand taking on new identities to
see how that feels and the wholepeer thing.
Is a really big deal.
It's so hard.
There's a lot of drama, as Iknow, I'm sure you, you have
found out with your daughter,but that's the time when she
might not tell you everything,but you can offer to be there.
(29:25):
Yeah.
And you can say, I'm not gonnajudge you.
I'm here to lend an ear.
If you wanna talk, if you don't,that's fine.
But I understand cuz I rememberwhen I was growing up and that's
going to be the eye roll time.
Right.
That's when he gets when I growup, my best friend did this and
I was so upset that I didn'teven wanna go to school for a
(29:46):
week because that was so hard.
It's just taking that where youdon't put her on the spot, but
she just listen, you just openthe door and say so what's going
on.
Can I help listen and would thathelp?
And sometimes it won't becauseyou know, these things change,
(30:06):
but it's just the idea that sheknows you're there.
And the other thing is that whenyou were talking about being
rude, they are practicingboundaries that they can.
Put in place for themselves, butalso with their friends.
She knows that she can be rudeto you and you're still gonna be
there cuz you love her so muchand she loves you too, but she
(30:31):
can do things in the familyrelationship that she would
never do with her friends,because that is such a tenuous
relationship.
So sometimes it's swallowingyour pride a little bit and
saying, I know this is not aboutme.
This is just normal.
This is gonna pass hopefully.
I can still be here and not takeon her anger or her frustration
(30:53):
or her feeling of self of,worthlessness or whatever the
feeling is that she's reallyexpressing underneath.
Ashley (30:59):
Yeah, now I know we kind of talked about the parent
section in the mother-daughtercode, but there is actually a
teen section part of yourprogram too,
Robin (31:06):
We can do it in any one of a number of ways where we
either have mothers anddaughters taking on some of
these things together.
Or there's a section just forteens where mom is not involved,
where it's a place for them tohang out and be themselves.
And that they can talk about thethings about perhaps the
(31:28):
relationship.
With their mother that arefrustrating for them.
And it's not gonna cause aconfrontation because we keep
that separate.
It's confidential.
It's just for them.
It's having that safe space.
It's a little bit guided in thesense that I can be an objective
third party and they feel likethey can talk or listen in a way
(31:49):
that they couldn't with.
Ashley (31:51):
Which I think is so important too, because I think
going back to the over parentinga little bit, we take on that
ownership that we have to beeverything to our kids and that
they should come to us for allof these things.
But I think it's so great forteens to have multiple
responsible adults that they cango to or mentors that they can
turn to so that they're getting,different opinions or different
(32:14):
skills from different people.
But I think that that tool isreally important to include as.
Robin (32:20):
Absolutely.
I don't deal with the situationsthat are really traumatic or,
I'm not a mental healthcounselor.
I deal with it more from thestandpoint of a healthy dynamic.
Yeah.
That just problematic in thistime period.
It's not that you've gone crazyor she's gone crazy.
It's normal.
There's this tension that didn'texist before and you might not
(32:40):
expect it and she might notexpect it.
How do we deal with.
Separately or together or both.
I'm not a therapist and I wouldrefer out somebody who had a
serious problem, like a drugproblem, or, a trauma of some
kind or an abusive situationgoing on.
I wouldn't take that on, but Ido think that having mentors,
(33:01):
having others.
In your life who can help roundyou out and can give you a
different perspective is reallyvaluable because to expect a
parent, to be everything just asyou said, and do everything and
know everything is just totallyunrealistic.
I mean, it's not fair and wetake that on ourselves.
(33:23):
If you think back.
Historically, we grew up in, youknow, if you wanna call it a
tribe or a neighborhood or areligious group or extended
families were together and theyhad lots of different people to
go to where they could checksomething out or they could get
a different perspective onthings.
And we could too, you know, andsometimes our friend groups can
(33:45):
still do that.
But sometimes our friends aregoing through the same things
with their daughters and they'relike, I don't know, I tried this
and that didn't work, or, didyou ask her about this?
And I'm like, no, I'm nevergonna ask her about that.
Because last time I did, it waslike, boom, there was an
explosion.
But if you have sort ofdifferent age groups, you have
different family relationships,or even as you said, mentoring
(34:07):
relationships that you can bringtogether.
It could be a counselor or ateacher at school, you know, it
could be a neighbor.
it doesn't have to be you allthe time.
That's such a big burden.
It's such a big responsibility.
And I think it's unfair.
It goes back to that.
Good enough parenting idea, weput this burden on ourselves and
it's just so unfair because it'sunrealistic.
(34:30):
Not one person cannot beeverything to another person.
So we should stop makingourselves think that that is
what we have to do.
Ashley (34:39):
Absolutely.
We need to, like you said, letourselves off the hook and focus
on what we can do and let thatbe good enough.
And it's so funny because I feellike, and every kid's age, this
could happen at a differenttime, but there's like that
small window of time where thelessons that you are trying to
learn, whether it's, you know,don't drink and drive.
(35:01):
Don't you know, cheat on a testor whatever the thing may be.
I feel like there's a smallwindow of time where they'll
actually listen to what we'resaying and kind of take it to
heart.
But so if that lesson is comingfrom a teacher in class, And it
just hits at the right time.
It really can shift theirperspective.
It's appreciating all the peoplethat could bring these lessons
(35:21):
to your kids.
That again are just regular lifelessons.
It doesn't have to be like a bigtrauma or something where
professional help is needed, butit's just appreciating that
these lessons can come fromanywhere and really just being
open to, I guess, other peopleproviding them.
Robin (35:37):
It's also a little bit of checking in too, right?
Because the peer thing is sostrong in adolescence.
So if they're getting all theiradvice from their best friend or
the new boyfriend, that's awhole other thing or social
media, more likely it's worthdoing a check in to see if
(35:57):
that's true.
Ashley (35:58):
When we're relying on teenagers giving other teenagers
information, it's like you haveno idea what silly information
it could come from.
So I think it's really in ourhousehold anyways, it's a really
teaching them that you are gonnamess up and there's gonna be
things along the way that don'tgo well.
(36:19):
I may not like those choicesthat you make and there may be
consequences to those choices,but it's like always feel that
I'm here for you basically, and,being really open to them to be
willing to have those awkwardconversations or those
challenging conversations.
And just really trying yourhardest to be a safe space.
Even if you know thoseconversations, don't always feel
(36:41):
easy or, comfortable for theparent to have.
Robin (36:44):
Right.
Yeah.
And how hard is that right?
To have some of thoseconversations.
It seems like there are more ofthem today.
When I was growing up, it was,don't get into a car with a
stranger.
There are so many other waysthat we try to protect our kids
today.
Cuz there's so many otherpossible threats.
Online bullies, you know, inthis school who knows, and we do
(37:06):
our best to keep our kids safe,but we also have to give them
the skills and some of this Icall tapping into your inner
self for them as well, not justyour own inner five year old,
but their inner knowing.
That we often overlook right inour world.
What is our gut saying?
(37:26):
So stopping to think is thatperson really on my side would
my mom really send somebody elseto pick me up at school?
I don't think so.
I'm not getting in the car withthem or you know, is this boy
really?
You know, he says he loves meand he wants to be my boyfriend.
Well, I've only known him for 25minutes.
(37:48):
yeah.
How true can that be?
And, and of course at that age,you get swept away and you wanna
believe certain things are true.
And so that's also allure, butteaching her to check in with
her gut, like what does thatfeel like to you?
Is it feel safe?
Does it feel like who you reallyare or you play acting now?
(38:08):
Are you trying to be like so andso, because she thinks she's
cool and she's part of the incrowd and you wanna be like her,
or is it something that isreally true for you and giving
them the strength to pause andtake a breath?
Just like you need to pause andtake a breath before you react.
(38:29):
I think a really valuablelesson.
And I think it's one that wedon't even think about teaching.
Ashley (38:35):
I think we sometimes will Gaslight ourselves when it
comes to intuition and I feellike we really need to trust it
more and, like you said, teachour kids to really look at that.
What is that little voice insideyour head saying?
Is it telling you like, I don'tthink so.
Or are you getting that weirdfeeling in your gut and really
trusting those?
Because I feel like especiallyas little kids, they.
(38:59):
will wholeheartedly trust thatand, you know, go, oh, I don't
like that person.
Or, you know, that person isoffering me candy.
I'm not gonna get into their carwhere I feel like as we get a
little bit older, we tend tosecond guess ourselves a little
bit more and tend to not wannatrust that voice.
So I think it is an importantskill set to try to teach our
teens.
Robin (39:19):
Yeah.
Or even, you know, the bestfriend you had when you were in
fifth grade and now in seventhgrade, she is doing some riskier
things and wants you to comealong.
I don't know.
Do you wanna think about thatbefore you just say, okay, I'm
gonna go with you to the mall orI'm gonna go with you and we're
(39:39):
gonna hang out.
And there's a cute guy there,and I'm gonna start, you know,
vaping or something, whateverthat story is, it might be that
that person has also changed inways that you don't feel
comfortable with.
So what is that your comfortzone?
Is telling you it's true foryou, and it might not be the
(40:00):
best idea to go with that formerbest friend who's now into
things that maybe are not thingsthat you would normally indulge
in yourself.
Ashley (40:10):
Which I think is a really good lesson.
And I think it's so hard whenthey're younger, because their
friends seem like the end all beall where these friendships
really, do run their coursemaybe after a year or just
because you are friends at thispoint doesn't mean that it's,
you know, they're gonna be thebridesmaids at your wedding or
whatever the case may be.
So it's being confident enoughto be able to cut those
(40:30):
friendships.
Robin (40:31):
Yeah.
That's true.
That's true.
These are hard things.
It's not black and white.
It's not absolutely.
It's not that there's a rulethat if this happens, you do
this.
And as you said, it's havingthat roadmap for your
relationship with your daughterwhen she reaches these years.
Maybe the roadmap, even if youstart creating it between
(40:52):
yourselves, you, and hertogether, or you started out and
check with her to see if this istrue or.
not For 15 year old, it might betrue.
And for at 16 it might not betrue anymore.
Ashley (41:06):
Absolutely.
And that's sort of where thehard part of like parenting
comes in, cuz there isn'tnecessarily this perfect, you
know, advice book of like, thisis what's gonna happen on this
day and what's gonna happen onthat day.
So I think it's really great tohave a book like yours where
it's shifting our conversationto be like it can look like this
this time, but you know, beopen.
(41:28):
You know, turning into somethingdifferent or being something
different.
And I think any resources thatwe have for sort of 10 up are so
great, because I feel like thereis a little bit of lacking in
that department as, just sort ofa technique of how to help.
Robin (41:46):
Getting back to this idea of brain science, you know,
adolescent brains, teen brainswhat we understand about the
development.
At this age, it's changing somuch because there are new
research tools with, brainscanning and things like that,
where we can actually see what'sgoing on when they're engaged in
risky behavior.
And, what areas of the brainlight up that might sound like.
(42:07):
Totally theoretical, but it doesgive us an idea of why they are
sensation seeking.
For example, at this age, inthis time period, or why peers
are so important in their lives,it just gives us a new insight
and new tools.
And so that's why I'mcontinually following the
research on teen braindevelopment and psychology and
(42:27):
things like that because we'rediscovering more and more about
how.
Humans develop in general, butthis, period of time is just so
fruitful.
It's just so fascinating.
And it is so rewarding, as you.
See them blossom as you see themtaking on new roles and
responsibilities for themselves,or even as you see them, trying
(42:50):
something that they would neverhave done before, even if it's
like eating an artichoke thatthey would never have done when
they were little.
Those are, little moments tocelebrate.
I think we forget about thecelebration sometimes.
Ashley (43:01):
Yeah.
I definitely agree with that.
There are really fantasticthings about having teenagers.
It's like, There's that sayingthat when kids are little it's
like that, the days are long andthe years are short.
Well kind of, as they become ateenager, you really realize how
fast it all goes.
I just feel like yesterday shewas going off to kindergarten
(43:21):
and now she's starting grade 10,that it really does go so fast.
It's nice to have somebody whocan get themselves ready.
For school in the morning, Idon't have to really prompt her
to do things like that.
We'll like the same movies andwe can go have like a movie date
together or go out for dinner.
I, don't have to make sure she'sgoing to the bathroom with me
because she can sit alone at thetable and all of these things
(43:41):
that.
You don't get the ability to dowith them when they're really,
really little, that there's somany fun things about having a
teenager like you said, we dotend to focus more on some of
the annoying things that they door how challenging it is or how
expensive it is and all of thesethings where there is a ton of
great things about havingteenager.
Robin (44:02):
It is.
And they have opinions that aresometimes really interesting to
hear about you might not alwaysagree with them, and sometimes
they're gonna be in conflictwith what you think or what you
want her to agree with you onthere's challenges.
But just to see those brainskind of open up and.
Have the new thoughts andintroduce new ideas.
(44:24):
And they may come up with thingsthat we wouldn't necessarily
think of from their perspective.
I love these gen Z kids becausein a way they're very
vulnerable.
They're much more open andreceptive.
They've come through some reallytough times, covid and we had.
2020 with all of the politicaland racial and other strife, but
(44:45):
they're passionate about it.
I mean, they're inheriting aworld from us that is.
Really pivoting in big ways andwe don't know what that's gonna
look like, so that can lookscary, that can feel
threatening, but to empower themto be the ones who are finding
solutions for cancer orpreventing the next pandemic or
(45:08):
thinking about what AI is gonnado in people's lives, in the
future.
But thinking about it in a waythat taps into their sort of
moral center.
And they do have their own moralcenter.
And they'll tell you all aboutit.
It's something to celebrate.
It's something to encouragebecause this is how they evolve
into thinking and caring andEthical adults.
(45:29):
So having those kinds ofconversations is another way
that we can celebrate they'recoming into a more mature phase
of life and as rough as it canbe their journey to adulthood.
We're on the same journey.
I'm not a teenager obviously,and I'm not a millennial I'm a
boomer and I'm much more on theAn older phase of development,
(45:51):
but I am so excited because Iget to learn.
I get to work with people.
I get to try new things everyday.
It's a lifelong skill.
When you instill it in them,when they're young, when you get
them enthusiastic or curious inasking questions, even if you
don't like the questions thatthey ask, but encourage the
questions because that's gonnamake them thinking and
(46:13):
considerate and caring adultsand the other quality of
character that I like to stresswhen I'm working with parents in
particular of teens.
Is this idea of empathy and Ithink this gen Z has it in
spades as caring about others,caring about the environment,
caring about our neighbors,caring about other people in the
(46:36):
family and putting ourselves intheir shoes and them putting
themselves in other shoesbecause to really.
Promote the kind of change we'regonna need as the 2020s and
beyond is going to requirereally understanding and
relating to, and being open andtolerant of other people's
(46:59):
opinions and other situations inthe world.
Ashley (47:03):
Which is kind of the plus side of technology.
It tends to kind of get a badrep, but that's the fantastic
thing about this generation isthat they have access to
learning about climate change ina different way.
They have access to meetingdifferent people and different
cultures than them that theywould never, ever.
In their own communities had theoption necessarily to do
(47:24):
focusing on anti-racism beingmore open to L G B T Q plus
people.
All of these things where Ireally do think even compared to
my generation, that the nextgeneration has that in spades
where they kind of have like ano nonsense, no bullshit aspect
of it, where they were like, Iknow climate change is real.
So let's make sure that doesn'thappen again.
(47:45):
And they are more.
I think brave in their opinionsto vocalize some of these things
and really wanna be that change.
And I'm super excited to see,what they do with that
Robin (47:57):
They're forming organizations that are doing
amazing things, they're on theground getting involved in,
helping to educate people aboutclimate change or gun violence
or some of these other reallybig.
Thorney problems.
We have been facing in ourcountry for a very long time,
but they're doing it they'reorganizing in their own way and
(48:17):
they can because of technologyyou're right.
They can organize in ways thatolder generations could not
they're so interconnected, theycan do it on social media.
They can text each other.
They can get people mobilized innew ways.
And I just think it's so great..
Ashley (48:34):
I really appreciate you having this conversation with me
tonight.
If anybody is looking for youonline, where can they find you?
Robin (48:41):
So they can find me at edgeofyesterday.com.
And social media, of course,Instagram TikTok.
I'm really active on TikTok.
Believe it or not, it's so muchfun to be an older person
working in the younger person'splatform
Ashley (48:55):
awesome.
Thank you so much.
Robin (48:58):
It's great talking to you, Ashley.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of The
Filled Up Cup podcast.
Don't forget to hit subscribeand leave a review.
If you like what you hear.
You can also connect with us atfilledupcup.com.
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next
(49:19):
episode.
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