Ep. 86 Carrie Valentin

On this episode, I am joined by Carrie Valentin. We discuss her experience with finding out that her young daughter had a form of cancer, called Wilms, that spread from her kidney to her lungs. Thankfully, Sybil is currently in remission. We discuss the trauma that cancer caused in both her life and the ripple effect it had on her family. We discuss her decision to divorce her husband and how they made a conscious effort for it to end up being a positive for their family. We also talk about Carrie's drinking and how she wouldn't label it alcoholism but that it did become a coping mechanism for her during the hard times. She is currently working on sobriety and working through both the trauma of thinking that she was going to lose her daughter as well as trauma carried forward from childhood. 

Carrie Anne Valentin (@carrie_be.wellness) • Instagram photos and videos
Donate: Small acts solve big challenges (bcchildrens.ca)

We also mention Christiana Cioffi in this episode. To check out more about her dating application or to order her book: 
Book | An Unapologetic Spinster

Ashley (@filledupcup_) • Instagram photos and videos
Filled Up Cup - Unconventional Self Care for Modern Women

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the filled up cuppodcast.
We are a different kind of selfcare resource, one that has
nothing to do with bubble bathsand face masks and everything to
do with rediscovering yourself.
We bring you real reviews,honest experiences, and
unfiltered opinions that willmake you laugh, cry, and most

(00:21):
importantly, leave you with afilled up cup.

Ashley (00:31):
I am so excited.
Today I have Carrie Valentinjoining me.
Carrie and I are going to talkabout basically life and the
pivots that it throws our way.
We are going to be talking aboutsome really serious topics.
So just a little disclaimer thatwe are not medical professionals
and everything that we discussis from our own personal
experience.

(00:51):
Thank you so much for being heretoday, Carrie.

Carrie (00:54):
Yeah, thank you for inviting me.

Ashley (00:56):
Can you tell us a little bit about your daughter, Sybil,
and how you found out that shewas sick?

Carrie (01:03):
Yeah A year before we found out that she was sick, she
started losing a ton of weight.
I would, I know a year soundslike a long time, but it was
about a year.
Sybil had always been quitestocky and sturdy, and then I
remember saying to My ex, whowas my still my husband at the

(01:25):
time is it just me or is shelooking really thin?
We both kind of were just like,oh, you know she's growing and
she's thinning out because ourolder daughter is naturally,
very very small boned and thinSo that you know kind of bugged
me didn't think too much aboutit.
And then I would say maybe threeor four months before her

(01:47):
diagnosis, she wasn't eating.
It was stressful because she wasconstantly crying because she
was so hungry.
But then when we gave her food,she could only eat a few bites
and say, I'm full.
I feel so bad saying this, butat the time as a parent, you're
so frustrated because you'relike, You've just been crying
saying you're so hungry and I'vemade you this food and now you

(02:08):
won't even eat it.

Ashley (02:09):
I think all of the, moms can relate to that, where it's
like your kid is sitting at thedinner table and you're like,
just eat so that we can move onto the next thing that it would
be so confusing'cause it'sreally mixed messages.
How old was Sybil at that time?

Carrie (02:22):
tHat was when she was, okay, so she was diagnosed when
she was, so I would say that waswhen she was five, going on six.

Ashley (02:33):
Yeah, so for sure.
So it's kind of one of thosethings where you think that
maybe they want to play and thatthey're getting distracted with
all these other things that it'slike eating can have so many
different struggles in eachfamily.

Carrie (02:43):
Absolutely.
As a parent, at this point, I'vegot three kids, right?
And I'm tired and I'm justthinking, you know, I have a lot
of guilt around this actually,I'm thinking, like, what kind of
game is she playing here?
But actually, if we can rewindfor a sec, I just thought about
this.
So back when she was inpreschool, so when she was three

(03:04):
and four, the preschool teacherswould say to me often, when we
go outside to play on theplayground, Sybil just lays on
the bench and says she's tiredwhile all the kids play.
And I was thinking, that'sweird.
Weird, right?
Like, yeah, three and four yearolds usually have a ton of
energy.
They can't wait to run around.
anD then we started to noticethat when we would go on walks

(03:27):
that she would cry and want tobe carried or go in the stroller
because she was too tired.
And again, we're like, there'sno way you're too tired.
Like, come on, kids have tons ofenergy.
We're not carrying you.
This is ridiculous.
I remember taking her to our GPa couple of times and explaining

(03:47):
to him about her being lethargicand always saying she's tired.
We had some blood work done andit just came up that she had low
iron.
So I figured, okay, she has lowiron.
So maybe, she's anemic.
That's why she's tired.
So there was the loss of weight,her being tired quite often, a

(04:08):
lot of confusion around food,being hungry, but not eating.
I would say the final sort of,for me, like, that's it, my gut
is telling me something's up, itwas Valentine's Day, and at
school they were having a party.
Sybil loves school, and sheespecially loves parties.

(04:29):
So she woke up and she's like,I'm not really feeling well.
And I said, well, you can stayhome.
She said, no, no, no.
I really want to go to thisparty, mom.
I really want to go.
I'm super excited.
So I take her and then I get aphone call, maybe an hour and a
half into school and thereceptionist asked me to come
pick up Sybil.
She's really not feeling well.

(04:50):
She's gotta be feeling reallybad for her to leave school
today.
So I picked her up and I calledChris, my husband at the time,
and said I'm gonna take her toBurnaby General Hospital ER,
like something's up with thiskid, I have like a gut feeling
about it.
He's like, yeah, for sure.
And then I called a girlfriendof mine Roz, who used to be an

(05:12):
RN.
And she said, Carrie, I thinkyou should take her to
Children's.
And I'm like I don't know.
Like, it's so far, because welive in Burnaby, right?
And I'm like, it's far.
I don't want to drive all theway down there.
And she's like, no, I justthink, I think you should.
She's like, they're really good.
You know, they're very thorough.
I'm like, okay.
So I go to Children's.
We get a whole bunch of testsdone.

(05:34):
Everything's coming back fine.
Like blood count is fine.
Iron is fine.
You know, like all the thingsare coming back fine.
We've been there.
I don't know how many hours now,like, you know, how it is at the
emergency.
You're sitting there for likesix to 10 hours, you know,
right?
The doctor comes in and shegoes, you know, I don't know how

(05:56):
you feel about this.
The ER doctor comes in.
She goes, it's probablyconstipation.
But she's like, I think weshould do an x ray and I was
kind of like like we've beenhere all day, but then I was
like, yeah, yeah, okay, likesomething in me was like, no, do
it.
So we did it.
I don't know how long went by,but the ER doctor came back and
she's like, Oh, I want to showyou the x ray.
Everything's fine.
We can see that she'sconstipated and she's showing me

(06:17):
this x ray and she's like, youknow, see all these little
circles.
Yeah, that's all her poop.
So we're just going to give hersome laxatives and blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, okay, awesome.
We leave the hospital and I canstill remember it was around 8
o'clock ish at night and I got aphone call 20 minutes after
leaving the hospital from Chrisand he said, the hospital just

(06:41):
called, they're trying to get ahold of you.
I'm like, well, that's weird.
They told me she's constipated,I'm coming home.
Well, they need you to go backthere and be there by 8 a.
m.
tomorrow.
And I was.
Starting to panic, like, what,what do you mean, why?
They didn't say, she left anumber, the ER doctor, I guess,
had called.
So, he's like, when you gethome, call her.
So I called her, and she's like,yeah, they want you to come
back.
And I'm like, well, can you tellme what's going on?

(07:04):
And she's like, I can't.
They saw something on the x ray,and they want you to come back.

Ashley (07:09):
Which, how terrifying.
Like, it must have just feltlike minutes were hours.
I do understand on one hand thatthey can't give you information
over the phone, but on the otherhand, it's like how gut
wrenching to do that to people.

Carrie (07:23):
Yeah, it and I want to apologize if I start getting
emotional or crying, which willprobably happen.

Ashley (07:29):
By all means, I would expect you to get emotional
about it.

Carrie (07:33):
Because it does bring a back a lot.
Like this is very therapeuticfor me to talk to you about
this, but at the same time, whenI start talking about it, it's
like I'm, my body's going backthere.
So, right.
So yeah, that night.
I didn't really sleep much.
I prayed a lot.
I'm not a religious person.
I'm a spiritual person and Ijust, sort of put it out there

(07:55):
and was like, just let this benothing serious and tried to
stay positive.
We got up, we went to thehospital and I knew the minute
that we checked in at the triagethat it was serious because I
said, Sybil and I are here.
And it was like, everybody wasjust.
It was almost like panicking,but not really.

(08:15):
That's how it felt to me.
Like, you know, usually when yougo to the hospital, it's like,
okay, sit down.
You got to wait.
Well, it was like, as soon as Isaid she was there, people were
coming out.
They're like, okay, come withus.
We've got to get her changed.
And I'm just like, Whoa, likewhat is going on?
Like, what is the urgency?
So they basically brought usinto a little room right away.

(08:36):
They said they need to do anultrasound, that they see
something on the x ray behindall her poop, they noticed.
They also had told me the ERdoctor shouldn't have let me go,
she shouldn't have diagnosed Asjust a constipation?
Yeah, like, she didn't have thatright to do that without letting

(08:56):
The doctor who looks at the xrays, you know, look over it and
say, yeah, this is fine, she cango.

Ashley (09:02):
Which also has been really frustrating too, because
even if that was true, it'slike, how annoying to even tell
you that.
I just feel like that would havemade me so mad for like, no
reason.
Whereas if you didn't know thatinformation, and it really
wouldn't have made a differencein that moment, not knowing,
that it's kind of weird for themto like, point at each other and
be like, not it, in a sense.

(09:22):
Which I think is very common inour healthcare.

Carrie (09:25):
Oh, totally.
Yeah, totally, totally.
I was never upset with the ERdoctor.
If anything, she saved Sybil'slife by convincing me to take
that x ray.
Because I could have been like,no, I just want to go, like,
we're tired, it's obvious she'sconstipated, the blood work's
showing she's fine.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like her sort of being like, Ithink we should do this, and

(09:46):
then me being like, Oh, okay.
Right?
So, they said they needed to doan ultrasound.
At this point, I'm still going,okay, it's, I'm talking to
myself, right, in my head.
It's okay, Carrie, this isn'tgoing to be something super
serious.
Maybe she's going to have tohave some sort of surgery to get
the poop out or something.
I don't know the medical termsfor any of this, right?
But, I'm thinking it's somethingmaybe.

(10:08):
To that extent.

Ashley (10:09):
When you guys went back in the morning, was it just you
and Sybil or was anybody elsewith you?

Carrie (10:14):
It was just Sybil and I.

Ashley (10:16):
Then she ended up going for an ultrasound.

Carrie (10:19):
Right.
That was a very interestingexperience because.
I mean, I've had tons ofultrasounds, obviously, right,
having kids and whatnot, andthis ultrasound was taking
forever.
And the woman kept going overthe same spot over and over and
over, and I'm sitting there andI'm just trying to just be chill

(10:39):
and not overthink it.
I finally just said to the tech,look, we've been sitting here
for almost 30 minutes and you'regoing over that same spot.
And I'm starting to freak out.
Can someone tell me what's goingon here?
And she's like, oh yeah, yeah,I'm almost done, I'm almost
done.
And then I'll get the, yeah, Ithink it's the radiologist.

(11:01):
I'll get the radiologist to lookat it and then she'll come talk
to you.
I'm like, okay.
And then we're sitting there forsome more time.
And then she's like, okay, I'mdone.
And then she goes and talks tothe radiologist.
And, I mean, she's not gone verylong.
Then the two of them come in theroom together.
As soon as I saw theradiologist, face.
I knew it was bad.

(11:22):
I knew it.
She sat down and said we havefound a grapefruit sized tumor
on one of her kidneys.
And I'm just staring at her.
I was like, okay.
Is it cancer?
And she's like, well, it doesn'tlook good.
And I remember sort of havinglike some sort of out of body
experience.
I remember her talking to me andI'm looking at her and I can't

(11:44):
hear what she's saying at thispoint anymore and it's just this
sound in my ears and I'mobviously in severe shock.
For any parent, having a childthat is diagnosed with cancer,
especially what I ended upfinding out that Sybil had Like,
the level that it had gotten tois the worst thing for a parent,

(12:04):
right?
Besides your child actuallypassing.
No one wants to hear the c wordabout their kid.
No, absolutely not.
Or any disease or illness thatcould be terminal.
But for me, I said for yearsbefore any of this, I would say
to Chris, my biggest fear isthat one of our kids is going to
get cancer.
That's my biggest fear.
And he's like, stop Carrie, likeyou're going to put it out

(12:26):
there.
I guess just because cancer runsin my family, I had a stepfather
pass away and then my mom, shehad breast cancer and had to
have both their breasts removedand, grandparents.
I just had this fear.
So I was like, I can't believeit.
This was my biggest freakingfear besides one of my kids
suddenly dying.

Ashley (12:45):
I know that we hold guilt and shame about, as
parents about the most randomthings.
I really do hope that you knowthat you cannot manifest Sybil
getting sick and that I reallyhope that you don't carry the
guilt of having that fear.
Because I think that parents, wehave the most.
Irrational fear at times.
Like, obviously, with having afamily history, it makes it more

(13:07):
common.
But I will remember, thinking ifI took my daughter on a plane,
that the plane was gonna crashand we were gonna die every
single time.
That it's like, I just reallyhope for you that you don't hold
on to the fact that your fearcame true and that you don't
somehow feel guilty about that.

Carrie (13:23):
I don't feel guilty about that, but There are things
I do have guilt around, and I'mhoping to work through that
stuff.
Like when I said, she wouldn'twant to eat.
You're tired.
It's the end of the day.
You start getting upset.
And you're not thinking clearlyand you're like, Ah, like this
is so frustrating.
Like, why are you playing thisgame with me every night?

(13:43):
Or when she, you know, on thewalks and she's saying, I'm too
tired.
And you're going, there's justno way she's tired.
She just wants to be carried.
That's where I still carryguilt.
It's like, oh my god, how couldI have not known?
But I mean, how could I haveknown?
Right?

Ashley (14:00):
Like, Exactly.
I think it is one of thosethings hindsight is 20 20.
We say that for a reason.
as parents, we can only go bythe information that we had at
that time.
And like at that time, like yousaid, three kids and whining
about dinner.
It's like, I'm sure your otherkids would have same moments
where they were like foolingaround at the dinner table or
they didn't want to eat certainfoods that it's like, you can

(14:22):
only see them almost like agroup in that moment that it's
like for each individual one.
And like you said, when you hadgone to the doctor, the labs
seemed normal, in that moment,it's like, you can only go off
the information that you have.
I definitely can understand anymom holding on to guilt or,
having different meaningsassigned to different things
with the information that wehave now, but with the

(14:44):
information that you had then,like, you did your best.

Carrie (14:48):
Yeah, I know.
And I need to give myself somegrace, but there's still

Ashley (14:53):
And it's so much easier said than done.
Like, by all means, I'm notlike, oh, let yourself off the
hook.
Like, it definitely is somethingthat For whatever we hold on to,
it's a process and it takes alot of work and it takes, like,
reaching out to help.
So it's not something that youcan just, like, get over and
it's not something that youshould blame yourself for not
being able to just flip thatswitch in your head.

Carrie (15:15):
Yeah.
So, when we ended up finding outshe had a tumor.
Yes.
And they said It's not lookinggood, but the radiologist is
like, you know, I can't say whatkind of cancer it is.
I can't say for sure.
She would have to have surgeryand stuff.
You're not leaving today.
So we were admitted.
We ended up meeting with theoncologist and his team they

(15:38):
said, we're fairly certain it'sWilms cancer.
Do you know much about, have youheard of Wilms?
I had never either.
Wilms starts on the kidneys andit likes to spread to the lungs.
So Sibyl's cancer.
After all, they ended up doing aton more ultrasounds and MRIs

(16:01):
and CTs and all this stuff afterthat initial, first ultrasound
that I just talked about.
They had noticed that the cancerhad spread to her lymph nodes
and into her lungs.
So she had stage 4 Wilms cancer.
When I hear stage 4, because mystepfather was diagnosed with
stage 4 cancer and had like 6months to live, I'm

(16:22):
automatically losing.
My fucking mind.
I'm going to a really darkplace.
Sorry.
You know what's so funny aboutmy brain around this is as soon
as I go to that place, justmentioning it, I shut down.
I can't think.
My brain goes numb.

Ashley (16:37):
Which I think is completely understandable that
it would get like that.
The pain would be soinsurmountable that I can
completely understand why yourbody would put up guards and be
like, we're not even going totouch that.

Carrie (16:52):
Like it won't even allow me to get to the feeling that I
had.
But I mean obviously there was alot of tears and a lot of
panicking and it's all a realblur that first part.
Right before her surgery.
So they had to take the tumorout.
They said, we got to remove itand then we've got to take a
sample of it and send it toChicago to make sure it's Wilm's

(17:13):
tumor.
I'm like, okay.
The oncologist says, it mostlikely is from where it is and
where it's spread to, this isnormal for a Wilm's tumor.
He said, there's two types ofWilm's tumors.
He said, there's favorable andunfavorable.
If Sybil has favorable whilms,there's a higher chance of her

(17:34):
recovering from this, going intoremission.
If it's unfavorable, There's alower chance.

Ashley (17:41):
I can just imagine, when we think of the stages, like
stage four, I think with justeverything that we've seen in
movies and TV, it does soundlike Like

Carrie (17:52):
it's like it's terminal.
Yeah.
Oh, 100%.
That's what Chris and I thoughtwe were like we're gonna lose
our kid.

Ashley (17:59):
Now, going back a teensy bit.
So, when they had first told youthat Sybil had the tumor inside
of her.
It was just you and Sybil at thehospital.
Did you end up calling yourhusband or other family members
at the time?
Or how did tell everybody whathad happened?

Carrie (18:15):
Yeah, I ended up obviously calling Chris right
away because he had known I hadtaken her to Children's and he
was eager, obviously worryingtoo, like, what's going on.
So I told them they found thistumor and He was not okay.
Just quickly, Chris had lost hissister to brain cancer a year
before.
So, this was very Triggering forhim, obviously, right?

(18:37):
Like, I mean, it's horrible foranybody, but he was just, losing
it, he left work right away andcame straight to the hospital.
I ended up calling my girlfriendRoz, the one who suggested, God
bless her, that I go toChildren's in the first place.
I ended up telling her it wasgoing on and she went and picked
up.
Ellie, so Sybil's oldest sisterfrom school.

(18:59):
Chris came with Rosie, my littleone, I needed Ellie to be out of
school.
I don't know if that was theright decision to pull Ellie
from class.
I'm sure she was like, what isgoing on?
I just felt like we all neededto be together in that moment.

Ashley (19:11):
YEah, I would definitely have done the same if I were
you.

Carrie (19:13):
Yeah, I'm kind of jumping all over the place here,
but during Sybil's treatment.
A lot of times she wanted Elliethere.
They're very, very close and shesaid that when Ellie's with her,
she feels stronger and braver.
And I would get mixed messagesfrom people saying, Oh, you
know, you shouldn't put Elliethrough that.
It's super traumatizing forEllie.
You should leave her in school.
And I kind of went back andforth with it, right?

(19:35):
Like, should I just leave her inschool it's so hard as a parent,
right?
Cause you got the one kidsaying, I need that other kid
there for support.
She makes me feel better.
And then it's like, but do Iwant to put it on the other kid?
Like, that's a lot.
That's a lot of trauma.

Ashley (19:50):
I think there's no right answer.
I think it's one of those damnedif you do, damned if you don't
situations.
So you just kind of had to crossyour fingers and hope for the
best.
Yeah.
What are the age differencesbetween the girls?

Carrie (20:04):
Okay, so now Ellie's 10 and Sybil is 8 and Rosemary is
4.

Ashley (20:10):
So that must have been so hard with the baby
essentially being a baby andtrying to balance this all too.

Carrie (20:17):
Oh yeah, my mom actually came and stayed with us for the
first two months because I wasjust like, I don't know how I'm
going to do this.
How am I going to, essentiallyfor a year, like I would say,
like I lived in a hospital for ayear pretty much with Sybil.
There's so much behind cancerthat nobody sees, and you're

(20:40):
just like, Oh my God, this is somuch more than just a diagnosis.
Like, there is so much that getsdone and needs to be done.
I'm a stay at home mom.
I don't know how families whereboth parents have to work, to
survive, and then one of theirkids gets cancer like that.
Like, I don't know how they doit.
You spend so much time at thathospital.

(21:03):
So my mom came for a couplemonths, which was really
helpful.
She hung out with Rosemary quitea bit.
Rosie didn't know what was goingon, right?
Chris is, job, like his work isamazing.
They gave him so much time offbecause he had to be home too,
right?
To bring Ellie to school and bewith Rosemary.
My mom couldn't live with usforever.
Like she had to go back.

(21:24):
yEah.

Ashley (21:25):
When did you guys hear back from Chicago?
I'm assuming that she had thefavorable kind of Wilms

Carrie (21:32):
she did.
She did.
You'd rather hear your kiddidn't have cancer at all, and
now it's like, I just.
I just want to hear that it'sfavorable.

Ashley (21:40):
You've got to take the wins where you can get them,
right?
In a situation like that.

Carrie (21:44):
I remember saying to the doctor, because they're so
positive, right?
Like, the oncologist is being sopositive.
And, oh, don't worry, I knowit's hard.
She's going to be fine.
I've seen so many kids walk outof here after, they're in
remission, and she's going to befine.
And I'm just thinking, they'rejust saying that so that we
don't lose our shit.
I remember one night this wasshortly after we found out she

(22:07):
had favorable, so we were kindof like, okay, we can breathe.
But now we've got this longjourney of radiation and
chemotherapy.
It's still not guaranteed she'sgoing to make it.
I'm jumping all over the placeagain, her, lungs, and I'm so
glad I didn't see the x rays.
Chris did.
I did not.
I opted out.
Her lungs were so full ofcancer, I just, I don't even

(22:31):
know how she's still here.
They had told me, if we wouldhave left it a little bit
longer, she probably wouldn't behere.
Like, it was so bad.
So that's why this little girlcouldn't run, or walk, because
she wasn't getting enoughoxygen.
So anyways Back to after wefound out when it was favorable

(22:52):
one night, I'm sitting there andI said, I got to talk to this
doctor.
So I said, dr.
Rod, amazing oncologist, by theway, really good man.
I said, I need to talk to you inthe hallway.
So I took him out of the roomand I remember being so close to
his face.
I don't know why, but I wasright in his face and I'm like,
you got to give it to mestraight.
You got to tell me, like, if mykid's going to fucking die.

(23:13):
You gotta tell me, because Ineed to figure out how I'm going
to get through this.
I can't sit here and you tell meshe's going to be okay, you
think she's going to be okay,and you know that there's a good
possibility that she's not goingto make it.
You need to tell me.
And he said, I have a reallygood feeling she's going to make
it, Carrie.

(23:33):
He's like, I can't guaranteeanything.
He's like, you've got a lot ofthings on your side.
So I was like, okay, okay.
I felt a bit better.
I mean, I needed him to justreally be straight with me.
You know what I mean?

Ashley (23:48):
Yeah, you didn't want them to sell you, like, a happy
story if they didn't feel thatway.
Where it would also be so hardbecause it's like, in a
situation where there's no realmof control.
Where it's like you still wantto grasp for something and be
like I need to be able tocontrol that at least I feel
like they're not lying to me orthat I feel like they're not
like placating me because theydon't want to give me the bad

(24:11):
news all at once or things likethat where I think that it would
be normal to not grasp at thosestraws, but just to make sure
that you aren't going to beblindsided because you've
already been blindsided by thislife changing news of her being
sick in the first place.

Carrie (24:26):
Oh yeah, I was like, I need to mentally prepare for
this.
That's why I asked him, bestraight with me.
so Sybil had her surgery and itwent well and they removed the
tumor and they were able toremove some of the I don't know
all the medical terms, they weretelling me everything, but some
tubes and some lymph nodes.
So that was good.

(24:47):
And then the next steps were todo radiation on the abdomen and
the lungs, and then a year ofchemotherapy.

Ashley (24:54):
Did you get to stay in B.
C.
Children's or were you guys inthe Ronald McDonald house?

Carrie (25:00):
We weren't in Ronald McDonald because that's for
families who live like in, yeah,like Kelowna or Vernon or Fort
St.
John or something like that.
The reason I say we lived at thehospital so much is that, I
don't think people realize, Andwhy would they know this, but
when your child is going throughchemotherapy, the chemo kills

(25:20):
absolutely everything withinyour child.
They have absolutely no immunesystem.
So if they get a fever, you haveto phone the oncology unit first
and say, we're coming in.
Sybil has a fever.
Or you go straight to the ER,the ER.
Ends up getting you set up andthen they end up taking you

(25:40):
upstairs and you end up stayingthere for a week or however long
it takes for the fever to godown.
They have to do a bunch of bloodwork.
A lot of times some of the bloodwork takes up to 72 hours to get
the results back.
What they're worried about isbecause she had a port.
dO you know what a port is?

Ashley (26:02):
For anybody unaware, can you explain what that is?

Carrie (26:05):
I'll try.
So she had surgery to have sortof like this little button.

Ashley (26:11):
It's like an IV entrance,

Carrie (26:13):
right?
Yeah.
And it's like a little buttonand then it has like a cap over
top of it sort of thing.
And then when they say we'regoing to access the port, they
put in this needle into it.
It's all under the skin.
So you put a needle into it andthen the chemotherapy goes
straight into this.
Main vein?

(26:34):
Main artery?
I'm sorry, I'm super not That'sokay.

Ashley (26:37):
But yeah, so it basically means that they don't
have to give her an IV full ofthings every single time or
poker and like

Carrie (26:45):
in, like I say In the arm or the hand or Yeah.
Yeah.
It's less struggle.
So with the port though, thatcan get infected.
You don't want an infection inyour blood.
it's very serious because shedoesn't have Especially with
somebody with no immune system.
Exactly.
So that's why whenever the kidgets a fever, which was often
because she has no immunesystem, you've got to go and

(27:08):
you've got to be admitted.
You have to get a bunch of bloodwork done.
And then If they do seesomething with in the blood,
then they give you somemedication and then you've got
to get the blood work done againand and see if it's gone and
then you got to wait likeanother day just to make sure
it's gone.
You know what I mean?
So you know that kid's got afever.
I'm probably going to be on theeighth floor at Children's for a

(27:30):
week and she got a fever.
Very often.
I mean, we sent her to schoolwhen she could go when she had
the energy because we wanted tomake life as normal as possible
for her.
But at the same time, she wasalways getting sick.

Ashley (27:49):
Well, it definitely, it goes back to there's no right
answer.
Whether you send her or keep herhome, it is kind of hard because
even with the other girlspotentially being in school,
even if Sybil stayed home, Oddsare she would have ended up
still catching something.
Oh, totally.
So I couldn't even imagine howmuch you probably wanted to just
bubble wrap all of them at thatpoint.

Carrie (28:11):
I know.

Ashley (28:13):
And it must have been like, again, with your worst
fear coming true, it must havebeen in some ways so hard for
the other two in the sense thatyou're like, and what's going to
happen to you or having yourfear being so high into your
body of almost not thinkingclearly, if that makes sense.

Carrie (28:32):
Oh, yeah.
I didn't think clearly at allfor that year, I'll tell you
that.
The whole thing affected everysingle one of us.
Ellie ended up being diagnosedwith, severe anxiety disorder
during that time.
She thought she was dying allthe time.
She was having panic attacks allthe time.
I'm her person that she wants tobe with when she's feeling that

(28:53):
way and I can't because I'm inthe hospital and Chris is trying
his best, you know, like, youwant to be with your mom, it's.
in us to just have that naturalnurture.
Yeah, you know, it's not likedad is being a jerk.
He just can't be like mom, youknow?
So, that was really, reallyhard.

(29:15):
Ellie's still, every time Sybilgets sick or, Rosie gets sick,
or any of us, actually, for thatmatter, or herself, she's like,
what do you think, mom?
Like, do you think it's reallyserious?
Like, do you think it's cancer?
Do you think I'll be okay?
Or will she be okay?
Like, how serious is it?
It's really affected her.
And yes, my kids go to therapy.

Ashley (29:36):
I'm a big therapy advocate.
I think that Me too.
It's one of those things that,you can't go to the problem for
the solution, and not that yourdaughter is a problem, but do
you know what I mean?
You can't solve our own stuffall of the time, or have all the
answers, so I think that I amvery grateful that we live in a
place that has so many differentoptions as far as therapy goes

(29:59):
whether it's talk therapy,whether it's like an EMDR thing,
I'm a huge advocate in us It'ssort of letting our guard down
and being like, please help meand listening to other people
for the solution.

Carrie (30:11):
If I'm being totally honest, I'm just grateful for
the therapy because I don't evenknow how to help her and I feel
because I'm trying to just keepmyself together.
You know what I mean?
Like, I'm just trying to getmyself better so that I can be.
solid again for them.
I don't know how to, deal withthis kid that's having these

(30:31):
anxiety attacks and stuff.
So it's very nice for her to goto the therapist and then the
therapist to work through how todeal with her issues.
We are blessed that we have suchgood child psychologists, out
there because, I'm so effed upfrom the whole thing.
I can't help them to the best ofmy ability is what I'm trying to
say.

Ashley (30:51):
I think it's really brave of you to acknowledge that
as a parent because I thinksometimes we do want to be
everything to everybody.
And it can be really scary andit can be really hard to say,
like, I don't know how to dealwith this.
I don't have these tools.
I'm drowning myself, so I can'thelp her not drown.
All we can do is love them, butwhen it comes to reaching out

(31:12):
for help, like, I think thatthere's nothing wrong with
asking for help, so I think it'sreally great for you and your
family that you have that samemindset, that it's like,
knowing, this is a horrible,tragic thing that happened, that
it's like, everybody's gonnahave different levels of being
able to deal with it, ordifferent, like, for Ellie, she
may notice it as her braindevelops, she may end up being

(31:35):
more consciously aware of it.
within time or like how theygrow, then she would have been
in the moment.
So it does make total sense thatshe is having more anxiety and
more fear around it just asshe's becoming more aware of the
situation.

Carrie (31:52):
Right.
And then with Rosie, Rosie'sjust absolutely horrified by
hospitals and doctors.
When I tell her she has adoctor's appointment, she
screams her off.
All she thinks about is thatshe's going to get pokes and
needles and Rosie was neverthere in the hospital for any of
the port accessing or any of thetreatments.

(32:14):
But there was one chemotherapythat was so bad.
I don't remember what it'scalled, but.
It would kill off all the whiteblood cells.
To be honest, I can't rememberexactly what this chemo did, but
it was horrible.
That's okay.
And I had to give Sybil a shotin her leg every night to build
up the white blood cells faster.

(32:34):
Because the body couldn't do it.
So, even before this cancerstuff, Sybil is the one kid, out
of all my kids, that hatestalking about body parts, hates
talking about blood, never likedneedles.
She was the kid with theimmunizations that you had to,
like, hold down and you'refeeling so bad about it.
So, giving this shot in the legfor a week, you'd have to do it

(32:55):
for a week straight, wastraumatizing.
For all of us.
So Rosemary's at home and asmuch as, you know, I'd be giving
the shot or trying to give theshot to Sybil, fighting with her
to get it into her leg, youknow, Chris would be with Rosie
trying to distract her, but it'slike, she knows what's going on.
So now she's completelytraumatized.

Ashley (33:14):
Absolutely.
It's a whole family thing, andthere's not really something
where you can shield the othergirls or shield any of the
members.
You are all in it together inthe thick of it.
Mm-Hmm.
How long did Sybil have to gothrough chemo and when did you
guys find out that she had gonethrough remission?
or that the cancer was, I don'tknow how you would phrase it.

Carrie (33:37):
Yeah, so, that's a really good question because, I
didn't really know what to callit either.
She was diagnosed, february15th, 2022.
We basically started treatmentlike a month after that.
So March.
So she did her full year andthen we did a huge scan in March
of 2023.
Thank you.

(33:58):
We did the big scan, the CT andMRI and all the things.
They said that the tumors in herlungs were basically gone.
Which is a miracle because onelung was completely full There
was still spots in her lungsthat there still is spots to
this day in her lungs But atthat time.
They didn't know if it was stillcancer or if it was scar tissue

(34:22):
or calcified cancers cells sothey figured That it was scars
and calcified cancer cells.
The only, way we would know forsure is if there's still active
cancer in those tumors, theywould start to grow.
And they haven't grown.
Anyways, back to when they toldus that's what they think it is.

(34:42):
And I was like, okay, so is shein remission?
And they're like, yeah, I guessyou can say she is.

Ashley (34:48):
How often do they do, like, every six month checkups
or after they're like, okay, wecan finally breathe, we can
somewhat confidently say thatit's remission, where do you go
from there?

Carrie (35:02):
yOu go back every three months and you have blood work
done and tests done again.
They alternate because Having aCT scan is radiation, and doing
that every three months on herbody would kill her.
So, we would alternate.
We'd go, okay, so, three monthsin, we're going to have blood
work done.
And then we're going to have anx ray, just a regular x ray.

(35:25):
Then three months in, bloodwork.
Now we're going to do ultrasoundon the abdomen to make sure the
other kidney's okay and nothingis going on there.
Then another three months in,okay, now we're going to do
blood work and an MRI.
And then another three monthsin, okay, now we're going to do
blood work and a CT.
They're just kind of goingthrough different procedures to
check on her body.
So this last checkup, which wasaround Christmas.

(35:46):
It was a big one.
And they said she's still good.
It was some sort of milestone.
And the reason I don't know thisstuff is, if I'm being honest,
my brain has really shut down toa lot of this experience.
It's basically in a fog onautopilot.
So it's like when I'm saying Idon't know what it's called or I
don't know what year it was.
It was like I literallycouldn't, it's almost like a

(36:09):
blacked out or blocked out quitea bit of it.
But this last checkup, it was abig one.
The little marks in her lungsare actually getting even
smaller and there's nothing newgrowing.
We will continue for anotheryear going every three months.
And then after that, it's everysix months for a couple years,
and then after that, it's everyyear.
And she will basically have tocheck in every year for forever.

Ashley (36:34):
Which must be so devastating, the idea of it sort
of lingering over her in thatway.
Oh yeah.
It's so amazing that at least inthe situation where it does look
like everything's shrinking andthere's no recurring.
I can just imagine how,stressful and like re
traumatizing and anxious when itcomes up to having to do those

(36:54):
three month tests.
Of like, waiting probably for,your world to shatter again or
probably waiting for the othershoe to drop.
So I can just imagine for yourfamily what that's like.

Carrie (37:06):
There's actually a name for it, hey, for that feeling.
It's called scanziety and it'sthe scans that are coming and
it's anxiety.
Like it's actually a word.

Ashley (37:17):
It's so shitty that it's so common that we need a word
for it.

Carrie (37:21):
And Sybil's so badass, that kid.
She's so strong.
She's way stronger than I am,with all of this.
She'll be so strong and sopositive, and then when we
actually do get to the hospitalfor that scan, or that blood
work.
Then it all comes out.
She says to me, I don't likebeing here.
It reminds me of a really badtime, mom.

Ashley (37:40):
Well, at least she has the emotional capacity to,
Acknowledge it or to be able tonot feel like she has to bottle
that situation up and I lookforward to the days where, she
is, oh, it's a year, and not,you know, marking it on the
calendar, dreading it, whereit's like, oh yeah, the year's
coming up again.

Carrie (38:01):
She's gonna be okay.
She has so much life left, youknow?
Absolutely.
She's hardcore, that kid.
Oh my gosh.

Ashley (38:10):
Now, you had kind of talked about how Rightfully so
that you were like in a fog andyou guys were basically just
drowning and, staying the coursebasically for Sybil but that you
couldn't pour from an empty cupso it's not like you were, I
don't know, able to do regulardate nights or just to be
yourself during that time andinstead of just being like

(38:32):
Sybil's a warrior and like Didyou find that you and Chris were
having issues prior to Sybilgetting sick, or did that kind
of all come to a head duringthat journey?

Carrie (38:43):
No, we were having issues prior to that.
We were having issues probably acouple years before that.

Ashley (38:50):
How long were you married,

Carrie (38:51):
we got married May 20th, 2012, so 11 years.
I mean, I guess we're separatednow on paper.
So I guess 10 years we weremarried.

Ashley (39:02):
A really long time in this day and age, like I just, I
feel like it's becoming less andless common that people are
married 20, 30, 40 years.
So I think 10 is, successful initself, even if it ended in
divorce or is ending in divorce.

Carrie (39:17):
Mm hmm.
I mean.
Long story short, there was noinfidelity or anything like
that.
It's basically two people whogrew apart.
For sure.
And I mean, three kids, right?
Like three little kids.
We were like passing ships inthe night.
There was no more dating.
There was no more.
Romance, we were surviving andwe grew apart.

(39:38):
mOre me, it was me that wantedthis.
And before Sybil got sick, Ireally struggled with it.
I was like, I can't believe I'mgoing to do this.
No, I'm not going to do it.
I can fix this marriage, youknow, like sort of going back
and forth telling Chris, like, Idon't think I can do this
anymore.
Then a week later being like,no, no, no, I'm going to make it
work.
I couldn't make a decision andstick to it.

(40:00):
I knew in my gut, I wanted out,but I just.
Obviously, we have three kidstogether and we had been through
so much together even beforeSybil getting sick.
There was just so much pain inending the marriage, right?
Yeah.
But then when Sybil got sick Irealized life it can blow up
obviously in a second.

(40:22):
Like, everything can changewithin a second.
And I was done being unhappy.
I know that sounds terriblebecause if you look at my life
from the outside, I've got likethe white picket fence.
Well, not literally white picketfence, but you know what I mean?
We have the house and we havethe kids and I'm a stay at home
mom and he works and I make thefood and blah, blah, blah.

(40:43):
How can she be unhappy?
I just, I wasn't happy and I wasjust kind of coasting through
life and then Sybil got sick andI was like, no more.
I need out of this marriage, Ineed to find myself again, and I
need to live.
It was really hard for Chris,and Chris is a super good man,
so.

(41:04):
Any women out there, you know,if you're looking for a really
hardworking, nice guy, I've gotone for you.
Just be, be nice to my kids.

Ashley (41:11):
It's actually so funny because one of the ladies that
will be on the podcast she wrotethis book called Unapologetic
Spinster and she has anapplication that you can
actually fill out on her websitelike if you want to date her,
that it just made me think of itwhen you're like if there's
anybody out there that it's likemaybe that lady.

Carrie (41:32):
You know, he's a good guy.
He's just not my person anymore.
Like you know how people say,Oh, I have my soulmate, my
person for life.
I don't believe in that.
I think we changed so much from30 to 46.
You know what I mean?
Like we met when I was 31.
I'm turning 47.
I've changed and grown so muchand we've grown apart.

(41:52):
I

Ashley (41:53):
think like what you had talked about, like that, you
know, good on paper, that whitepicket fence.
Most of the time, I think thatwhen it looks too perfect from
the outside, there's no suchthing as normal, like when we go
and really go investigate everysingle person, every single
person is struggling withsomething, every single little
person, doesn't always put Theiractual real life, like say on

(42:15):
Instagram or things like that.
I think that it isn't somethingthat you can judge from the
outside.
That I think it is one of thosethings that sometimes marriages
end, they can still beconsidered, like I said, 10
years is still, I think, asuccessful marriage, even if it
ends in divorce.
I don't always think divorceends because of abuse, or
scandal, or cheating.

(42:35):
Sometimes it really is justlike, I love you as a friend,
but I'm not in love with youanymore.
And it can still be, like, ahappy new normal.

Carrie (42:45):
Yeah, I mean, I still live with Chris.
I have my own bedroomdownstairs.
It's been interesting.
There are challenges because,you know, we're trying to
navigate, like you said, likethis new normal.
I won't be living with himforever.
I will eventually move out, butwe decided once Sybil was in
remission, I've decided that I'mgonna move.

(43:07):
He'll buy me out.
I'm not just gonna move out ofthe house now.
Like, our kids have had so muchtrauma.
Yeah.
I can't go and just move outnow.
We need to get things calmagain.
The girls know that mommy anddaddy are no longer married.
We've tried to explain it tothem the best we can.
We're pretty amicable and likewe're pretty good around them.

(43:28):
Like there's no fighting andarguments.
We still hang out as a family.
We just finished going toBritannia Beach the mining
museum up there as a family.
The kids loved it.
And I told them, we both toldthem, we said, you know, look,
just because mommy and daddyaren't.
We say boyfriend and girlfriendanymore.
Mommy and daddy are friends andwe're still a family and our top

(43:49):
priority for both of us is youguys.

Ashley (43:51):
And I think that's huge.
My parents were divorced.
They divorced when I was like,18 months, two years old.
So I don't have memories of themtogether, but it was sort of the
same thing.
They could hang out.
Like my dad would come pick meup.
He'd give my mom like a hug anda kiss.
They'd be like, Hey, how areyou?
I'm good.
How are you?
Like, it was fine.
So my mom, I was 24 when shepassed.

(44:14):
So in the 24 years that.
They were, alive at the sametime.
I remember them fighting twice.
So I think sometimes divorce canbe that happier alternative,
where it's like you get the bestof both of your parents without,
an ugly custody battle or,parents that hate each other.
Or parents that stay married forthe kids while actively hating

(44:37):
each other and then thattoxicness.
So I think that having parentsthat can be friends and can be
friendly and can be amicable, Ithink is the best that you can
give your children and yourself.

Carrie (44:48):
Absolutely.
A lot of times I was like, Ishould stay for the kids.
But I thought to myself, if Istay for the kids so that I
don't hurt Chris and I keep ourfamily together.
I'm going to be depressed forthe rest of my life.
And that sounds so horriblebecause it's not like being with
Chris is hell, you know what Imean?
But I would be abandoning myselfto make him happy and, the kids

(45:14):
wouldn't be happy down the roadif mom was miserable, but you
know what I'm trying to say?
Like I'd be abandoning myself ifI stayed.

Ashley (45:20):
And I think that, like you said, it is so true that
when something traumatic andscary happens, we do realize
that life is short and we onlyget to live this life once and
that you really do have to makethe most of it, whatever that
looks like.
And I think that As women, oncewe get to, I want to say like
the 35 year mark, you do kind ofstart reflecting and going like,

(45:45):
Hey, I did a lot of shit in mytwenties for the sake of doing
it because it pleased a man orbecause it pleased my parents or
because of whatever.
But I think once you kind of getto your mid thirties and beyond,
you start to realize like, Oh, Idon't have to do that anymore.
Or now that I'm in thissituation, what does bring me
joy?
What do I actually like?
And it's, I feel like.

(46:07):
You get stuck in a wife mode ora mom mode or working person
mode or all of these differentversions of yourself that it can
be really hard to make them allone cohesive unit and try to
figure out like, what does thisversion of me like to do?
Who am I now?
And I think that thoseconversations are happening more
and more.
And I think we need to sort of,you know, eliminate the shame

(46:30):
around them.
It's okay to try to figure outwho we are at different stages,
and maybe that does meandivorcing, maybe that means
moving to the other side of thecountry, like it could be maybe
starting a new career, any ofthese things that I think it's
okay to lean into differentopportunities.

Carrie (46:45):
Yeah, I mean, we don't have enough time for me to talk
about, the deep rooted reasonwhy the marriage didn't last.
But I'll just say this reallyquick.
I grew up with a lot ofchildhood trauma.
And I knew what I didn't want ina man.
Yeah.
And when I saw Chris, I waslike, he's safe.

(47:09):
I want safe.
And I'll just leave it at that.
He's a good guy, but he's, notmy person anymore.

Ashley (47:16):
Which I think it's okay to admit.
And like you said, you're opento him dating.
Hopefully he's open to youdating that hopefully your
partners become this likeawesome blended family.

Carrie (47:26):
We've talked about it.
I mean, he doesn't like talkingabout it because he's still, you
know, he told me, he's like,Carrie, if I found out that you
were dating someone, I'dobviously be very hurt, but I'm
not stupid.
Like, it's going to eventuallyhappen.
But we've talked about it.
Like, we still want to spendChristmases together and the
girl's birthday.
So when, We meet people.

(47:47):
It's like, look, like, are youokay with that?
I can't be with a man that isgoing to feel threatened by
Chris.
Do you know what I mean?
Absolutely.
Like, I need someone who's like,yeah, I totally get it.
Kids are important.
Let's all hang out, you know?

Ashley (48:03):
In some ways it's kind of nice to be able to have like
that kind of like bullshit meterwhere you can be like, you get
to test the waters that way andweed out the ones that aren't
going to be in it for the longhaul.
Or like, we'll do mornings withyour kids and afternoons with
mine, and it becomes like thismassive blending.

Carrie (48:20):
I'm really scared, like, even though the it's done, we're
separated, and I will be movingout sooner than later, I'm still
really scared.
Because there's always, part ofyou that's like, what if I'm
making the wrong decision?
What if I'm really effing up mylife?
But at the same time, I have alot of excitement.
I'm excited.
I'm really excited to, find meand be me again, whoever that

(48:42):
is, you know?

Ashley (48:43):
Glad that you're excited about it.
And I think the fear of makingany decision or the finality of
a choice can be really hard andreally scary, but I feel like I
don't know why we're taught notto trust our intuition or to
question it, especially aswomen, but I think it's one of
those things that, like, yourgut will let you know if it's
the right choice.

(49:04):
And realistically, say you madethe wrong choice and you were
supposed to end up with Chris,I'm one of those people that I
believe that if that wasactually what was supposed to
happen, then maybe you'll getremarried in 10 or 15 years.
Do you know what I mean?
I

Carrie (49:18):
feel like, yeah, yeah, I

Ashley (49:20):
agree.
It doesn't have to be fear inthe choice because no matter
what, you will make the rightchoice for yourself.

Carrie (49:25):
Absolutely.
chris and I have funny enough,I've actually even talked about
that because I'm always like,what if I'm like making the
wrong decision?
He's like, well, then I guesswe'll just get back together in
five years.
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
Okay, cool.

Ashley (49:39):
Well, and I think that's awesome to be able to have that
relationship and still be ableto sort of share your fears and
be open enough about it thatit's nice to have that safety of
we're family no matter what.
And whether going through such amassive trauma has sort of
solidified that and made thatconnection stronger in a sense

(49:59):
so that you guys.
aren't able to hate each otherin the way that some parents
hate their co parent.

Carrie (50:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Chris and I are good and I'msure once he becomes, I don't
know what the word would be,just more used to this new
normal I'm pretty sure I tellhim all the time, I'm like, I
think in a couple years you'llbe like, Thank God I don't live
with her anymore.
And he's like, no.
And I'm like, come on, like,seriously, like, trust me.

(50:25):
This is a good thing.
You'll thank me down the road.

Ashley (50:29):
Now, one thing I've seen you talk about is being sober
curious.
Were you a big drinker previousto wanting to do this?

Carrie (50:39):
So yes and no.
So I'm a binge drinker.
I'm not an everyday drinker,which isn't true, because when
Sybil was sick, I drank a lot.
That's how I got through that.
And I know it's not.
a healthy way to get through it.
But I'll tell you now, if Ididn't have alcohol during that
time, I'm not sure I would havegotten through it.
But besides that I've always inmy 20s, you know, I worked in

(51:02):
clubs and bars and pubs, andI've always loved that party
lifestyle.
I did a lot of drinking and thething about me is I can't drink
like a normal person.
I Get the taste of the alcoholand I'd say after the second
drink, it's like go time.
It's like there's no going backnow.

(51:22):
And I will drink all night longand be really, really sick the
next day.
This has been happening since mytwenties.
I wouldn't say every single timeI went out and had a drink.
I'd be super sick, but it waslike 8 times out of 10, and I
didn't know when it was going tohappen.
I didn't know if this time wasgoing to be crazy Carrie was

(51:44):
going to come out and black out,like, I didn't know.
I didn't know when it was goingto happen, so it was kind of
like a 50 50 chance, but itusually ended up happening more
than not.
I will say this, I never, I'venever been.
Crazy Carrie drunk, or wastedaround my children.
But, I've been sober for, it wasfour months on January 3rd.

(52:05):
Third.
So, I would say about a monthbefore I decided that I'd like
to see how long I can go withoutalcohol.
Ellie, my oldest, said to me, Iwas going out one night and a
lot of times when I knew I wasgoing out drinking with friends,
I would just stay the night at agirlfriend's house and then come
home the next day.
Cause like I said, I don't liketo be drunk in front of my kids.

(52:27):
Ellie was like, okay, so are youcoming home?
I'm like, yeah, I'll come hometomorrow.
And she goes, Oh, so you'regoing out and drinking, right?
And then you're going to lay inbed all day tomorrow, sick.
And it just kind of hit me.
I was like, Oh wow.
I don't know why I didn't thinkthey noticed, like, she's 10,
but I was like, oh wow, like,they're starting to really
notice what I'm doing, and thenI was kind of like I don't know

(52:49):
if I'm being a very good rolemodel, my hangovers could last,
like, if I drank on a Fridaynight, Saturday night, 100%.
is a write off.
I'm in bed for the entire dayand Chris has the kids.
And sometimes Sunday, I'm stilla write off in the morning.
I just had this aha moment.
I was like, Carrie, you'returning 47.
You have three young kids.

(53:10):
What are you doing?
Why are you laying in bed allawake and puking your guts out?
And it was kind of like, I'mgoing to see if I can do this.
I'm going to see if I can gowithout drinking because I don't
like calling myself analcoholic.
I think I still have this imageof an alcoholic being someone
who is like drinking a bottle ofJack from like, Oh, Eight in the

(53:31):
morning, all day long kind ofthing, right?
Yeah.
Like that's, you kind of likefrom what you see in the movies
or what you were taught when youwere a kid, what an alcoholic
is, that's the picture I have.
I have a problem with alcoholwhere once I start, a lot of
times I can't stop and I startedto notice, especially when Sybil
was sick, When I started to feeloverwhelmed or it was too much,

(53:52):
I'd have a few drinks.
It started being with likeeverything.
Like, oh my god, my kids,they're driving me insane.
They won't shut up.
I'm gonna have a gin.
I need a gin.
And then I'd have like three orfour gins.
And then the weird thing is, Iwon't binge drink at home, but I
do when I'm out.
I can't explain it.
I just know it's a problem.

Ashley (54:12):
Well, and I think, especially as somebody who
worked in like restaurants andbars and things like that, you
would almost put drinking withbeing social, so it would seem
easier when you're out and aboutwith friends.
Whereas like, It's almost likesplit personalities in a sense
that it's like, I'm the goingout Carrie when I'm doing this
and I'm the mom Carrie when I'mat home with the kids and it's

(54:32):
almost dividing your brain intwo.

Carrie (54:35):
I definitely was noticing I was using it as a
crutch right and it worked, likeI said, for a really long time.
I just wasn't dealing withstuff.
I just wasn't dealing, period,with anything.
Because as soon as I feltoverwhelming feelings, I would
have some drinks, and then I'dfeel good again.

Ashley (54:50):
It's one of those things, you don't see it until
you see it.
So it almost does take, like,one of the girls saying
something.
Or it does take, like, an ahamoment.
That I think a lot of the timesit's like we want to stay, you
know, numb, we don't want tofeel bad things and especially
the trauma that you experiencedisn't something that anybody
should have to go through.
So I think not having the toolsof like, how am I going to

(55:13):
process this while I'm in thethick of it?
Like not saying, you know, wineor gin is the answer, but it's
understandable why in thatmoment, obviously, like, if you
could have something that'sgoing to make you feel better,
why wouldn't you take it in thatmoment?
Do you know what I mean?
If that's causing you to havesome relief in the day and by

(55:34):
all means, like, I'm notadvocating, I don't think either
one of us are saying, like, ifyou're going through hard times,
like, grab a drink.
But when you're in the thick ofsuffering, like you're not
thinking logically and you know,you are looking for anything to
make you feel better.
And congratulations on havingfour months of not drinking and
really having.

(55:55):
I guess the ability to kind ofstand back and look and say,
Hey, do I actually want this?
And be brave enough to go, I'mgoing to see what life looks
like without drinking, becausethat isn't an easy task.
And a lot of people, you know,stay functional alcoholics so
that they don't have to seewhat's on the other side of the

(56:16):
soberness.

Carrie (56:17):
Yeah.
I just want to make it veryclear, like, I don't judge
anyone that drinks or even usesdrugs or anything like that.
I think going back to yousaying, like, you know, you can
understand how I might need todrink when I went through
everything with Sybil or I'll goback to my twenties.
So I won't get into too much ofwhat I went through as a child,

(56:38):
but I had a lot of really badchild trauma and I ended up
moving.
to Alberta to get away from myfamily and just run from
problems.
And I drank a lot in my twentiesand I did a lot of really dumb
stuff and, a lot of things thatI regret.

(56:58):
But at the same time, I've givenmyself grace because I knew that
I was like this very wounded,hurting person.
I couldn't deal with my pain.
And I'll say it again.
It's ironic, but it's almostlike the alcohol saved me in
such a weird way.
Because, like, you don't want tosay that.
Like, I don't want to say topeople, like, Oh my gosh, you're

(57:19):
suffering.
Go get wasted.
It'll save you.
Because it doesn't, right?
It ends up snowballing.
Things get worse, and there'sdepression, and sometimes people
can't get out of it, and thenthey go to drugs, and what I'm
trying to say here is that ithelped me a lot until it didn't.
You know what I mean?
I feel like I'm too old and nojudgment again, but I just feel

(57:40):
like, you know, I'm not 20anymore.
Like, when I was 20 and boozingand we were partying and stuff,
it was just, it seemed more, tome, socially acceptable.

Ashley (57:51):
And the hangovers were not as bad in your 20s as they
are in your 30s, 40s and likeolder.
Like they, they

Carrie (57:57):
just are not the same.
They're so bad.
I just, like I said, I don'tjudge anyone that drinks or uses
because I think that all of ushave our stuff.
Like you said earlier in thisconversation, we're all broken
people because of something.
Even with myself, like when Ilook at little Carrie, like my
inner child, I drank like thatin my twenties because I didn't

(58:19):
know how to cope, right?
Like, that's why we drink.
We have pain and we don't knowhow to deal with it.
We don't know how to cope.
Or that's why people end upusing, because they have some
sort of mental health issues.
They don't know how to cope.
So, just want to make it superclear that to each their own I
think I'm just going to do thissobriety thing.

(58:40):
I really am feeling like adifferent person, and I know
that sounds, I don't know.
Cheesy.
But I'm starting to feeldifferent.
I wrote a post about seeing thelight again and it's true, like
I'm really starting to see thelight again.
I think it's because my brain isa lot clearer and I'm now
sitting in my stuff.

(59:00):
I'm sitting in the stuff that Ihave not been dealing with.
And it's uncomfortable, and it'slike super, super, I don't even
know what the word is, it's justso uncomfortable, like I've laid
in bed and just like angrycried, like screaming and just
angry crying and just grievingand getting everything out, and

(59:21):
that would not be happening.
If I was still drinking, becauseas soon as I would feel that
feeling of pain, or I don't likemyself, or this is too much, I
wouldn't deal with it.
Like I said before, I would justpour myself a drink, and then
another drink, and then maybe,most likely, another drink.

Ashley (59:36):
It totally makes sense.
And I think what we don't reallygrasp is grownups and our
generation, like they nevertalked about mental health.
So again, it's such a gift thatyou're giving that to your girls
because in our generation, itwas basically taught that you
bottle everything up and then itjust poop goes away and it
doesn't actually poop goes away.

(59:57):
It just lives inside of you andgets bigger and bigger.
And it's like, until we havethose ugly cries, until we work
through everything and processit.
And a lot of it.
All roads kind of lead back tochildhood trauma and what we
can't process then, we're goingto have to process at some
point.
So it's like the longer we putit off, it's just putting off
that inevitable.

(01:00:18):
And again, with professionalhelp and with tools in place so
that it's done safely.
And so that you are.
You're going to get to a placewhere you're on the other side
and you feel happy and healthy.
But I do think the only waythrough it is through and it
sucks and it's terrible but I dothink that it's like, once you

(01:00:38):
get to the point where you'reclear and you can let go of
guilt and you can let go ofshame and sort of work through
that trauma, it's like you'regoing to fix that not only for
yourself, but for your girls.
So that.
generational trauma doesn'thappen and I just think that's
the best gift that you can givethem even if it's not easy to
get there.

Carrie (01:00:59):
Yeah and that's huge.
Thank you for saying that aboutthe the generational trauma
because that was another thing Iwas like it's gonna end with me.
I have to say it hasn't beeneasy the last four months.
I have alcohol in my fridgeright now because Chris drinks.
Like, he's not a big drinker.
He has a couple beers here andthere and there's this really
delicious ciders right now.
Like, these apple ginger cidersthat I love drinking.

(01:01:21):
I have gone to that fridge andopened the fridge and just
stared at them.
And your mind kind of starts tojustify why you should just
maybe just have one.
Like, nobody's going to know.
No one's going to know.
Who would know?
What has helped is I have afriend who's sober.
And I would just call him andsay, Look, I really am feeling

(01:01:42):
stressed.
And there's these ciders or Iactually have my gin on the
shelf still.
I just could so use a drink.
Like, does that mean that I'mnot sober anymore if I just have
like one drink?
Like, what does that mean?
It's, it's been challenging.
Absolutely.

Ashley (01:01:58):
Which I think is a really good thing to share with
people, so if you're somebodylistening that's going through
sobriety, know that it's notlike you just flip a switch and
decide you don't want to drink.
It can be one day at a time andthat's awesome that you have
sober friends that you can reachout to that understand your
struggle and can relate to youand that you can lean on each

(01:02:18):
other because I think it can bereally challenging to let go of
something like that.

Carrie (01:02:24):
Yeah.
And there's sort of like thisrunning joke with my.
Good friends that I've knownsince we were kids.
And when I told them I'm gettingsober, they're like, Well, if
anyone should Carrie, it shouldbe you.
And I just laugh because I knowI'm a total shit show when I get
wasted.
I don't know who I become, butit's embarrassing.
I also want to say too, like,I've sat in the last four months

(01:02:47):
in a lot of self pity and selfloathing.
And if anyone else is goingthrough this, It's normal.
And it sucks.

Ashley (01:02:55):
That's such a good point.
if somebody else felt the sameway, would you feel comfortable
with them reaching out to you onsocial media?

Carrie (01:03:02):
Oh my god.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.

Ashley (01:03:05):
Can you tell them where they can find you online?

Carrie (01:03:09):
Yeah.
So my instagram handle is atCarrie.
So C A R R I E underscore B dotwellness.

Ashley (01:03:19):
Carrie, thank you so much for sharing your story with
me tonight.

Carrie (01:03:23):
Oh, you're welcome.
Thank you so much for, you know,this is therapeutic for me.
So thank you for inviting me.

Ashley (01:03:30):
Anytime.
If you want to come back in ayear sober and share with us
what.
That looks like now and whatyou've learned, I would
absolutely love that.

Carrie (01:03:39):
Yes.
For sure.
Thank you so much, Ashley.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday for this episode of the
filled up cup podcast.
Don't forget to hit subscribeand leave a review.
If you like what you hear, youcan also connect with us at
buildupcup.
com.
Thanks again for tuning in andwe'll catch you in the next

(01:04:02):
episode.