Ep. 103 - Crafting Transcendental-style Films Outside Hollywood with Josh and Jessica Jordan

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Josh and Jessica Jordan share their unique cinematic journey where Eastern spirituality meets Texas landscapes in their black and white feature film "El Tonto Por Cristo" - the tale of an Orthodox monastery on the coast of Texas where an unlikely saint emerges.

Support El Tonto Por Cristo's theatrical run here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/748841722/el-tonto-por-cristo-a-cinematic-meditation?ref=7zrob8

Our conversation dives deep into the art of "transcendental cinema" - a slow  deliberate approach inspired by masters like Tarkovsky, Bresson, and Bergman, that invites viewers to lean in rather than be force-fed meaning. As Josh explains, "I think that's the reason we're artists - we should not really fully understand who we are." This philosophy permeates their filmmaking process, where they embrace the unknown while meticulously crafting each frame.

What makes this discussion particularly compelling is the behind-the-scenes reality of independent filmmaking. The Jordans reveal how they transformed a 19th century house into both living quarters for the crew and a monastery set, secured SAG approval miraculously a mere hours before filming began during the actors' strike, and completed principal photography in just 14 days. Their emphasis on building community through filmmaking - casting local theater actors and involving family members in production - offers a refreshing counterpoint to Hollywood's star-driven approach.

Beyond production details, the conversation explores the spiritual dimensions of cinema and why certain films endure beyond box office numbers. The Jordans articulate a profound vision for making movies that matter - works that may polarize audiences but ultimately speak truth about the human condition. Their journey to Orthodoxy informs their artistic sensibilities while maintaining a focus on storytelling.

For aspiring filmmakers, spiritual seekers, or someone who simply appreciates thoughtfully crafted cinema, this episode offers insights into creating art that transcends commercial expectations. Follow El Tonto Pro Cristo on Instagram to discover when this unique film might grace a theater near you or consider donating to their fundraiser (live now!) for its theatrical run, at the link above.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
um, so I was saying that I've only seen trailers,
but like instantly, I could wait.
Why don't you?

Speaker 2 (00:11):
introduce what?

Speaker 1 (00:12):
oh okay, you don't want to just jump right into
this?
No, I mean I will.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
You can just start with like who are we?
What are we?

Speaker 1 (00:18):
talking about everyone's different.
Anyway, episode 103, and we'restill figuring out.
Welcome to the Film and FamilyPodcast.
We have Josh and it's Jesse.

Speaker 4 (00:35):
You can call me Jesse .

Speaker 1 (00:36):
People call me Jessica, that's the name, okay
so, josh and Jessica, I couldmess that up Jordan and the
filmmakers behind their firstfilm was this World Won't Break,
and the new film that is yet tobe gracing the world is El

(00:57):
Tonto Pro Cristo, and I don'tknow how to say that, because if
I say it with a correct accent,it sounds pretentious, and if I
say it with a gringo accent, itsounds gringo.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yes, I like the fact that even just the title alone
gets people nervous, you know.
Yeah, so you know we live inDallas, texas, and so
everything's so Tex-Mex here,and I've always it's always been
in my, in my work, and so I waslike altanto procristo was jess

(01:28):
, she goes, you should just callit that, because once it sticks
, it sticks.
It sounds awkward at first,it's.
We always say, like you know,like the band, the flaming lips,
what a weird name for a band,but like I couldn't imagine them
being called anything now, it'sjust normal, you say it.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
You don't think of how strange it actually is, so
yeah, yeah.
A little more intrigue.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Even like Star Wars.
What sounds more campy than thewords Star Wars, which has
virtually nothing to do withanything in that story Other
than I guess it's like agalactic.
Yeah, there's some war battles,I guess, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
it just is like yeah, you hear star wars and you hear
the music yeah yeah, and it'sstuck.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
It's like it's entirely normal, like you said,
like none of us question it.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
So yeah, and I think in this day and age it's also
really good.
There's so much noise and somany things coming out, which is
a positive thing, but to havesomething like el tanto for
cristo, you're not going to getconfused.
You know, it's like some peoplehave films like I had to think
out of.
There's a film called theisland, which is an orthodox
film, but if you type it, if yougoogle the island, it could be

(02:34):
you get lost yeah, or it couldjust be an island yeah and
there's scorsese's uh shutterisland, but you know, it's just
kind of, it's kind of crazy.
So I'll talk to Procristo.
We looked and there's not one,so we're good.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, I don't know, I don'talways do all my Google due
diligence, but typically we tryto yeah yeah.
So the two of us, we find itzero percent strange because
we're both fluent in Spanish.
However, what I found strikingabout the film itself well,

(03:08):
first of all, I was immediatelyimpressed.
I came across your guys' workthrough your interview with Alex
Ferrari, and what struck me inthat interview and later I
looked at your trailer for thatfilm was I was like oh okay, so
these guys are making films.
They're a lot like us, thatthey're they're doing this on a
very indie, outside of theHollywood system way.

(03:32):
But you're, you're not likechums.
Like your stuff looks and feelsit doesn't just like OK, it has
good cinematography.
Sometimes that's hard.
Like looks professional, soundsprofessional, that's
congratulations already Right.
But then, like that's afrustrating feedback when I get
that from like even distributors, they're like we watched your
trailer, we have no interest inwatching your film, but we'll

(03:55):
sell it.
But it looks like you guysmixed it and graded it correctly
and it's like wow, thank you,did you like care about the
story or whatever.
But like it looks like you guysare making films that are, um,
they're existential, they'recharacter-based, they're
spiritual um thoughtful,artistic, yeah and so I'm like,

(04:15):
okay, I'm interested in theseartists mainly, and, and so when
I saw that you were making thisorthodox film about an old guy
and it's called Fool for Christ,right, and I'm like, okay, but
I know what it might be and Iknow what it probably won't be,
because I know what kind offilms you guys are making,

(04:36):
you're not making like, I don'tknow if you call it mainstream.
You're not making like niche,um, like evangelical cinema.
That um has a certain someunfortunate stigmas, right, um,
it's, it's this very specificthing that's associated with a
very specific religioustradition and I'm like, super

(04:58):
into that.
Um, we've wondered for a longtime why, why do do it way
better than us?
Like, like, like, we can't eventouch movies like on the big
scale, like fiddler on the roof,on the small scale, like if you
haven't seen that that's anisraeli film, that's really cool
.
And I'm like, why, why are like?

(05:18):
Why?
do ours feel like commercialsfor our church and theirs feel
like stories about humans, youknow and it's.
And so when I see what you guysare doing, I'm like, okay,
you're getting so tight andspecific about a very unique
experience.
Like an older gentleman who'srenounced like public life and
it's through an orthodoxtradition, I'm like, oh, now I'm

(05:41):
gonna go do like an experiencethat's really unique.
So I'm I'm really excited aboutyour film.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, Thank you, Thank you.
Yeah, I think that's.
Do you want to talk on thereason for El Tonto for Cristo,
Of why it's like we always sayyou know, when you scan the
radio station, if you'retraveling, you're to rent a car
and you scan the station and itstops on something and you hear
like a couple notes and maybejust something about blowing in

(06:06):
the wind or something.
You're like that's a Christianradio station and you know it.
And if you're skimming throughthe TVs, it was kind of the same
way.
And you know, I I grew up, mydad was a he still is an
evangelical pastor and he was anevangelist on the road, and so
orthodoxy could not be fartherfrom that and it's.
You know, we've been orthodoxfor almost 11 years and I still

(06:29):
don't feel orthodox enough tomake this film.
Um, but I knew I needed to,because I was distracted at
times during our divine liturgyI'm not paying attention, I was
looking at all the iconographygoing.
What story can I tell?
I just told it from myperspective about it's about
humanity, it's not aboutreligion per se, and there's

(06:52):
nothing she warned in.
I don't know what would you say.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
Well, it's a.
I think that was one of ourpersonal experiences in the
conversion process.
For us, from being having beenraised, um, you know,
evangelical, non-denominational,there was a pivotal point in
our, in our spiritual life thatled us to the Orthodox church

(07:18):
and through that, one of thebiggest differences is it's so
interesting because I, um, I'm,I'm a yoga instructor, you know
that's, I've done that for manyyears and so I understood enough
.
Enough of Eastern like thought,and it's way different than
Western.
But I understood enough to nottake what Westerners might put

(07:39):
as face value and be like andsum it up to an an optimal
knowing about something.
So when we actually got to um,we, when we attended St Seraphim
, which is here in Dallas forthe first time, and our boys,
you know, they're in theirtwenties now.
This was 11 years ago, so minus11 years, they're much younger
I was like, okay, how do I tellthem what we're about to
experience in a way they wouldunderstand?

(08:00):
And so I remember saying tothem okay, pretend we're going
to Indiana Jones church justbecause it's so ancient and it's
in everything.
But my point in this is thatit's all happening, with or
without you, like it's beenhappening since the time of
Christ.
With or without you, there's no, you know, there's not a high
point homily, there's not a bigum emotional worship service,

(08:24):
but everything is so chock fullof meaning.
And so then when you startparticipating and like what josh
said, even through this process, we're, like, we're not
academic intellectuals.
You know, I am an entrepreneurand josh is a filmmaker.
You know, his art, artistry andcreativity meets my creative
entrepreneurship and you knowartistry and that's how we

(08:45):
collaborate.
So, but we did as we, as we are, and if we become, and are
still becoming, orthodoxChristian, working out our faith
and fear and trembling, youknow, is what we really realized
is, oh, this is a lifestyle,this is not a and you know, I
would say, probably most peoplein the Christian faith would say

(09:07):
, oh, it's a lifestyle, it'srelationship, but I don't think
you realize it until you areparticipating in the Orthodox
Church.
It is something you arebecoming and constantly becoming
, and so this innertransformation was something
that we saw.
And what's very interesting is Iwould see that in my yoga

(09:27):
students I got a very indie yogaspace.
It was like vinyasa flow toindie music type of a situation.
But what I did see was, whileit's not a team sport, people
would come, they enjoyed beingtogether, working out their junk
on the mat.
Maybe it was mental clarity orbetter health.
Some of them were swappingsomething positive for
addictions that they had, butthey were doing it together, but

(09:50):
it was really an individualpractice for them.
That's a very Eastern way ofapproaching your health, be it
spiritual health, like any typeof health.
So what we saw, was this thingbegin to transform our lives
individually, you know, and thesacramental life of the church.
And we begin to see this growthin Texas.

(10:10):
And which is very interesting,it's Texas, first of all, the
Bible Belt, and then you seethis very counterculture way
approaching a faith that mostare familiar with, at least in
some capacity if you live in theUnited States, that most are
familiar with at least in somecapacity if you live in the
United States.
And then we, as we've grown andlearned, and then Josh, of

(10:33):
course, he did a lot of research, we took a pilgrimage to San
Francisco, and that's a wholeother story.
And he started to gather thesestories and to write it into the
singular narrative.
While it's fictional, the storyis true, it's taken from true
accounts from time, written intothis one figure at this
mythical monastery on the coastof Texas.

(10:54):
But it's very interestingtaking these Eastern traditions
into Texas that has a cultureall of its own anyway, you know,
and then making it into thisstory, because now we've seen as
it's growing so much as peopleseem to be in the West looking
for something that has somesignificant roots.
I mean it's very interestingbecause this is now, it's this

(11:15):
fusion of what already has beenhappening in the faith.
And then you know cultural typethings, because we live in Texas
and it is Tex-Mex and, and so,and then Josh's unique take on
storytelling which, when youwatch this world won't break,
and then you heard the storyabout this world won't break,
and when you eventually do seeEl Tanto Procristo, you can
definitely go oh, I mean, you'llsee their different stories.

(11:37):
But you're like, oh, there's,there's something very Josh
David Jordan in the way that hedoes his film work and and I
love it so much.
You know, I get to co-create inthe sense of like we discuss
and I'll add ideas and we are,you know, companions in the
whole process and everything.
But the storytelling throughJosh's lens is so unique.

(11:58):
You know we have future scriptstoo, so which are different
than this, but we're reallyexcited to bring this, even if
it's, you know, for yourself,like as film lovers, as people
that want something that is notjust cinematically beautiful and
has strong performances andmusic, et cetera, but there's a
storyline, but also somethingthat's fresh and new.

(12:20):
There's so many remakes of filmsand you're like, why aren't we
telling original stories?
You know what?
And there's probably multiplereasons for that.
But we do live in a day and agewhere you can bypass that, like
yourselves.
You know where you can say thisis what I'm doing and you can
make it, and I've just talkedway too long.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
So I think they're muted.
I don't think I can hear youguys.
I think you're muted.
I don't think I can hear youguys, I think you're muted Maybe
.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Is it on mine Can?

Speaker 3 (12:54):
you hear us now?
Yeah, oops, no, we heard youthe whole time.
That was just when, just now.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, so what sounds like to me is like it's an
Eastern Western, you know it'sEastern Western and it's like
it's an eastern western.
You know it's eastern westernand it's and it's so cool, like
I mean I love that stuff and soI it's like, like you said, this
really strong eastern traditionwith this really strong western
setting, that's.
That's that's exciting.
I don't know, I think it'sreally exciting and it feels

(13:20):
eastern, well, it feels almosteuropean, which I guess you call
in the middle.
Uh, in its approach of like itsaspect ratio, and it's black
and white and it's it's more ofa I don't want to label it as
transcendental style because Ihaven't seen the film, but it
definitely feels influenced by100 percent of sort of as
defined by Paul Schrader'stranscendental style in cinema.

(13:40):
Sort of as defined by PaulSchrader's transcendental style
in cinema.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
It's so crazy.
I was, I um had the book.
I didn't read it when I wasmaking the film, just because of
I don't want to be influencedtoo much, uh, but I'm rereading
it right now and I'm like ElTonto, for Krista could be in
this book, um, because I wasvery inspired by Bella tar um,

(14:04):
by, uh, paula Polawowski's IdaBrisson.
It just, you know, in theaspect ratio, like you said, it
really is.
I mean, it's European cinema,it's 1661.
We use the same lens thatTarkovsky used.
It's a zoom lens, but it's fromthe sixties and it's humongous.

(14:26):
We used one lens.
It was humongous, but that justthat glass and the way it was
ancient by using, you know,digital cameras.
We use the new red and it stillgave it that antique look and.
But it definitely is what PaulSchrader talks about, which is
slow cinema.
Definitely is what PaulSchrader talks about, which is

(14:46):
slow cinema.
And as much as a lot ofdistributors or studios per se
or people that we meet with,they're like well, it's black
and white.
You have a color version and,as a way to speed it up a little
bit, I'm like I don't want itlike everything else.
I mean, I understand it comingfrom a business aspect.
But I think that, you know,slow cinema is a treat.

(15:09):
I can't watch it every singleday.
I mean I'll watch it probablyonce a week and it's my escape,
it's my yoga, it's my meditation, because you know the the
writer, director is allowing youto participate in something and
not force feeding you something, and you walk away and you have
like what did I just see?
And I liked that feeling.

(15:29):
A lot of people don't like thatfeeling.
They don't like to wonder orwhat did that mean?
Instead of you know, just youknow being a part of it, yeah,
yeah, well, and like there's.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
you know, we tried to do this early when one of our
first short films, anna watchedit in its festival setting and
she came back and said Kent, weare waiting long on shots but
nothing interesting is happening.
But we watch these movies wherethey have this slower approach
and it's like suck you in,fascinating.
We're trying to imitate that,that, but not successfully at

(16:06):
first.
Yeah, you can't just not cut,and it's like I'm making
transcendental style cinema.
You know, it's like it's slow.
It's slow which makes it good.
It's like no, it doesn't.
And that's the problem with canwe make it in color?
Can we cut this down?
What they're saying is can wetake like steps 99 and 100 and
101 and just copy those?
And it's like, yeah, but whatabout steps like one, two and

(16:26):
three, like what was it that?
Like was the germ of this?
Like can we cut what makes it?
unique so that it fits into thisbox, that we know how to sell
yeah then you lose what makes itspecial well, and what's
interesting is, like the movieum columbus, um it, they
marketed that film directlyagainst the grain, in the sense

(16:48):
that they were like we wantedthe trailer to feel like a
meditative, peaceful thing,because it would just stand out.
Even on social media it wouldstand out and they actually did
a pretty respectable theatricalrun with that film and there's
lots of examples of films thathave done it.
It's just people are scared andI think we all deal with that
film and there's lots ofexamples of films that have done
it.
It's just people are scared andI think we all deal with that,

(17:09):
even as artists.
We poo-poo on the producers andthe studios, right but I think
even as artists, I get scaredall the time I watch a movie.
And every time I watch a movienow I question in myself should
I be making that?
Should I be like that artistinstead?
And I don't even know who I amper se, quote unquote you know
like, and so it's a lot of fearthat I feel like I have to wait

(17:31):
through.
I don't know.
Do you ever feel like, did youexperience that when you were
making this?
Or did you feel like prettyassured, like this is what we're
doing?
I?

Speaker 3 (17:37):
think that's the, that's what the um, that's the
reason we're artists is.
We should not really fullyunderstand who we are.
That's why I think cinema is soexciting.
When you watch Scorsese's stuff, early on he's figuring out who
he is.
And I just rewatched TaxiDriver recently.

(17:58):
I know that's very cliche,everybody knows Taxi Driver, but
a lot of people said thatthey've seen it.
And they haven't seen it andyou're watching him become
Martin Scorsese and there's noapologies for those films.
And so I don't apologize for myearlier work, because you
really don't know until you'reon set, until you're in the

(18:19):
editing room, of those mistakes.
Um, no film is perfect.
Of those mistakes, no film isperfect.
Ron Howard said no matter whatfilm you make or how many awards
it wins, it's guaranteed tobreak your heart.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Because it wasn't what you had in your brain,
because you guys know you make afilm three times in the writing
, in the filming, filming andthe editing.
And it's true, and with thisfilm I'll talk to Pocristo I did
something that you're notsupposed to do, which is paint
yourself in a corner, do one,takes no coverage, and if it

(18:55):
doesn't work, it doesn't work.
And it worked.
There's two scenes and it those.
Those broke my heart.
Like Ron Howard says, theybroke my heart too.
It was my favorite things that Iwrote, and it didn't work.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
It didn't work it didn't serve the film.
And they're great scenes,they're like so great and
conceptually.
But even I mean, even if theyworked, our film is two hours
and 14 minutes and while it isthat transcendental style I
wouldn't say, and it is slowerthan most people are used to,

(19:37):
but it keeps going for two hoursand 14 minutes.
There's really nothing you cancut and there's definitely
nothing we can add.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, yeah.
The opening scene is eight anda half minutes and it's a man
coming over a hill and he has aconversation at a doorstep and I
wanted to let the audience know, like this is what this film is
going to be like.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Yes, that's the longest situation.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
so what you've done is you've scared them a bit and
they think is every scene goingto be this long and right?
When it gets there, it goes andit moves and then the film
moves really quickly, eventhough it's slow.
It moves so fast towards theend that you are used to it
going slow, so that it seemsfast, even though it would be

(20:23):
slow in most other films, Ithink well, and so it sounds to
me like you understand whatschrader was getting at from the
beginning, which was he saidthis isn't boring cinema for
boringness's sake.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Like that's not the end goal.
The end goal is that you leanback so that the audience can
lean in, like you said.
Like you you're opening in away that makes them all kind of
go wait okay.
Like I know, this is thebeginning.
You can get away with almostanything when it's expository at
the beginning, but then, likeyou can't get away with that in
act two and three, and and soyou're, you're opening up all

(20:55):
that aperture at the beginning,so they get sucked in and then
you start to pull them in, andand I just feel like everything
nowadays is like everyone talksabout hooks, hooks, hook.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
What's the hook?

Speaker 1 (21:07):
It sounded like a Spielberg movie, and so I really
, really appreciate that,because even our latest film,
our doc, it definitely, like Iwas really trying hard to
achieve some degree.
I don't think it's truly atranscendental style film, but
some degree of leaning alwaysaway from the audience as much
as I could and when we tookaudiences well.

(21:29):
I was just gonna say audiencesrespond well, but there's always
going to be a few people.
We've we've probably shown itonline to about 2000 people,
yeah, and we've gotten feedbackfrom over a hundred of them and
we get mostly really positivefeedback and we've gotten this
like there's always been thiswhole faction of people that are
like it is just too slow.
I just think you could trim 20minutes If you were less in love

(21:50):
with the story.
This is actually what someonesaid If you were less in love
with the story, you could cut 20or 30 minutes from this.
And I'm like, why would we wantto watch a movie made by
someone who's not in love, yeah,with what it's not, obviously
hopefully not like with yourselfor whatever, but like, but like
you know, with the charactersand with what you're trying to
accomplish.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, I mean, I think Tarantino was right when he
says if half the audience lovesyour film and half the audience
hates it, you've made a greatmovie.
You made the movie If everyonelikes it.
You did it for a reason.
If everyone hates it, it's bad.
But if it's half and half andall my films, all my projects,
have been like that Peopleeither love it or it's not their

(22:31):
cup of tea.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yes, that means you're really saying something.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Because otherwise it's just vanilla.
It's not really making astatement that people can either
be on board with or not.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
And beyond statements .
It's like a visceral experiencethat someone either is just
going to like, regurgitate andgo well, my body just rejected
that Right Like, or they like,or it hits like a, like a bomb.
You know, it's like whoa Like.
Yeah, I love that.
I've always felt, I felt verysimilar to that, this idea of
like anything but lukewarm.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, and I think people are get it confused with
cinema because they don't reallyknow, they don't know they
don't have a very big library ofcinema, they maybe just have
american cinema.
Yeah, and that's why I'm drawnto european cinema.
Um, because I think they labelthings pretentious when they
were actually uncomfortable.
And those are two differentthings.
It can be pretentious that youheld too long, but it also can

(23:22):
be uncomfortable and they'rehaving to work and they don't
want to do that.
And so they get those confused,like, oh, it's a pretentious
film, like I mean, mine couldnot get more pretentious.
It's about an Orthodox, it'sblack and white European cinema
and they're mostly one takes,but it's what served the movie,
because orthodoxy is so colorful.

(23:43):
My last film is just color.
It's all about color.
Orthodoxy is it's all abouticons and color, but really it's
about movement.
It's the smell of the candle,it's the crying of children.
There's so many differentaspects and I said, well, what
if I took all that away?
And I mean it worked in AndreiRublev by Tarkovsky.

(24:03):
And people have seen thetrailer and they're like, oh,
this is like Tarkovsky, my wayof Texas, and I'm like I think
maybe it's because it'sorthodoxy, it's icons and black
and white, but really when?

Speaker 1 (24:21):
you watch the film, it's really more like Jim
Jarmusch dead man, probably.
So I want to.
I want to back up theconversation and ask you just
quickly could you summarize,like a pitch, like what is El
Tonto Procristo?
Because that's the film thatyou guys have, and then also,
once we get an idea of the basicstory, without giving anything
away, where is it at?

(24:41):
Like when is it?
Where is it at?

Speaker 2 (24:42):
And maybe we could yeah, even jump into some of the
logistics of how you guysapproach filmmaking with your
lifestyle and taking care ofyour family.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
We always want to get into that, yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
You should preach your director's statement.
Yeah, because I'm really bad atremembering things.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
I know I hate being asked to picture this.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
Don't make him do that, I think the log line is
it's the uh, the uh.
A monk on a monastery on thecoast of Texas, uh, becomes an
unlikely saint.
What is it I?

Speaker 4 (25:13):
think you should read your director's statement okay
we have this thing that'shappening internationally and we
were, and it's not solidifiedbut it's, it's fairly.
It's very exciting, but youknow it's not solidified, so
it's hard to get too excited.
But, um, we were asked for,josh was asked for a director

(25:33):
director statement and he readit to me and I was like, oh,
this is, this is perfect.
So this is probably the bestway to give this to y'all, and
this is a couple of days ago.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Um yeah, I'll just read the first part then, Cause
I think that's really um theycan edit it.
Yeah, for sure, I'll just readthis and you guys can edit
whatever you need to edit out ofthis long.
So it's like when I firstenvisioned El Tanto Pro Cristo,
I was captivated by the raw,mystical spirituality that
emanates from Eastern Orthodoxy.
As an artist, I sought to diveinto a world that is profoundly

(26:08):
unrepresented in cinema.
The film, set against the stark, rugged backdrop of a Texas
coastline, brings to life theintimate existence of the
Orthodox monastery.
Coastline brings to life theintimate existence of the
Orthodox monastery.
Here, amidst the relentlesswaves and shifting sands, we
find an abbot, a soul reader, afool for Christ, along with the
men who have chosen a life ofquiet devotion and contemplation
.
Inspired by the likes of Bergman, bellatar and Palawowski, I aim

(26:30):
to craft a narrative that isboth deeply introspective and
universally resonant.
These matters of cinema havetaught me that true power of
film lies not in grandiosegestures but in subtle, almost
impeccable moments of humanexistence.
With Altonso Procristo, Iwanted to capture the essence of
a spirituality that almostfeels alien to the Western

(26:51):
audience.
It is the very bedrock of muchof Western faith.
So yeah, if that maybe breaksit down a little bit, I love
that.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, I'm so excited, I like it because there's some
films where I watch them andthey just unflinchingly approach
spiritual matters in ways thatI go, oh dang, I wish I'd been
the one to say that, but I wastoo scared, like I feel all
those things.
But I, just because I'mconstantly so, just kind of like

(27:24):
how orthodoxy, I think, isconsidered maybe a like a
Christian religious minority, ifthat makes sense, at least in
the United States Um, so youknow, we're, we're members of
the church of Jesus Christ ofLatter-day Saints, otherwise
known as Mormons, and so we, Ireally identify with any film
that explores like orthodoxy, uh, judaism, um, or even

(27:49):
spirituality, in a unique waythat isn't necessarily like a
commercial right and so likeeven guys who are I think I
don't know if he's catholic, heprobably is um, um, terrence
malick, you know and likewatching movies like tree of
life, where I'm like how didthis guy take this movie all the
way to the oscars?
Brad pitt has something to dowith that, probably, but but he

(28:11):
takes it all the way to theoscars and yet he's so boldly
exploring these deeply.
Yeah, there's deeply personalstuff, but there's also these
deeply spiritual things.
I mean he's putting likebiblical verse on the screen in
there.
Yeah, yeah, like right off thebat, and no one was like, oh,
this is just cheesy or whateveryou know.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
It's like yeah, he's he doing this thing with his new
film is about.
His new film is about Jesus,right, I mean the way of the
wind and it can.
Has given him an invitationevery year.
Sight unseen.
They just want to.
They want Terrence Malick thereso there is.
There is a need for, notChristian films, but spiritual

(28:49):
films.
There's a need for that incinema.
It's always been there, right?
No, it's like.
It's like the seventh seal, youknow about life and death and
there's a need for that incinema.
It's always been there.
It's like the seventh seal, youknow about life and death and
there's so much.
I think someone said what wasit that?
If it has an agenda?
Basically, jordan Peterson.
Yeah, I think it was JordanPeterson was talking about

(29:11):
propaganda.
He doesn't like Christianpropaganda films, he likes
spiritual films.
And I was like, oh, that's areally good way of looking at
that.
And I was really concerned whenI made this film because I was
like, is this orthodox enoughfor all the orthodox around the
world?
And I was asking people who arevery high up and who are a lot

(29:32):
more educated than me and theywere like no, no, no, you should
even go farther, like push theenvelope for the Orthodox.
So it's a weird position to bein.
As a writer, director, creatoris I'm trying to invite people
in but also challenge people.
Also stay true and not bedisrespectful.

(29:53):
It makes cinema and making, andmake cinema.
And make it exciting and noapologies.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
There's no apologies, and if someone's upset by it,
that was never an intention andyou're always going to upset
someone, that's hands down?

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Well, you are, without a doubt.
If you can even get them to sitdown and watch the film all the
way through, there's going tobe some people with certain
religious affiliation who aregoing to watch this and go.
Well, that's not reflectingwhat I think is true and they
just can't see past Like itdoesn't matter.
It's a it.
We are trying to understandanother human being's

(30:30):
perspective on this world andtheir experience through that.
And how like.
For me, it's like exciting towatch a film, even made by
someone who's maybe not evenparticularly religious, where
they can make something, wherethere's a spiritual like
recognition of I'm part ofsomething so much bigger than me

(30:52):
and and a character even cominglike.
Did you see the film sound ofmetal?
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Oh, man, where he like he.
You know the do I do I ruin the?
If you haven't watched it yet,get on.
You know where he takes thethings out at the end and it's
just literal, like, yeah, bro,volume, like, oh yeah.

(31:17):
I cried in the ending of thatfilm oh, it's just exquisite
where he just sits there andit's just a few images and
that's the end of the movie, andand I found that to be like a
profoundly spiritual film thatmade no efforts to try and dig
into.
Um, what church does that guygo to?
You know, it's like probablydoesn't seem to go to any, and
and I and so that's that'ssomething ann and I've said a
lot is that I think as a youngyoung person, I was like I was a
little more quote unquoteevangelical, not religiously,

(31:41):
but like my attitudinal approachto film was more evangelical in
the sense that like I shouldreally help people see things
the way I see them, right, and Ithink that's sort of changed to
be like no, I just actuallywant to be honest.
I'm so scared to be honest, andI watch a movie like Ordette by

(32:01):
Carl Dreyer and go, that guylaid it so bare on the table.
How is that movie even possible?
And yet I wish I'd made thatmovie.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
There's a lot of.
If you like Ordette, you'regoing to love El Tato for cristo
and it was a.
Some subconscious things happen.
There's a scene and it happensfor a split second and I was
like, why does that look sofamiliar to me?
But it was.
We were on this remote beachand it was a.
It was a primitive beach,vacant, and we had we had to get

(32:32):
there by four pontoon boats,all of our gear and off the Gulf
of Mexico with a seven footcoffin and it was.
I was super stressed.
We get there.
There's no food and water.
We brought a little bit but weshot this one scene and
everyone's like man that was.
I felt fast and me too, andthen I was rewatching or death

(32:56):
of the day, I go, oh that's why,that's uh, it's almost a mirror
image the reeds, and the almostyeah
sand dunes.
We have a scene that evokesit's a chef kiss, and it was
never on our lookbook.
It wasn't something that wediscussed or talked about.

(33:17):
It was just.
Sometimes you're forced whenyou're making movies to go left
or go right.
There's no other option.
You have to film and I was likelet's just turn the camera here
, Cause the camera was so bigwith the lens.
We're shooting the ocean and toeven do a 20 yard camera move
would have taken us hours andthe sand and in the sand and the

(33:39):
platform, the camera.
So I said, just swivel it around, and we moved some logs and
cleared it out and that was theshot, and that was the ordette
shot yeah I'm so glad because Ilove that movie so much, because
it makes you feel and you don'tknow why.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
I'm telling you, like to me, like I think maybe the
most powerful experience I'veever had was in any cinematic
way.
You know, we have like a bigtheater room in our house now
which it's.
It's, it's cool, and we'vewatched movies and great
megaplexes and everything, and Ithink the most powerful
experience I've ever had wassitting watching it on like a
cheap 32 inch LCD that was givento us for free by, like a

(34:21):
neighbor when we moved into ourhouse watching, or debt for like
the third time by myself,sunday night in the dark and
just crying by myself andfeeling like just deeply known
by a power higher and biggerthan me.
And that's like, like, onceagain, like what right does that

(34:43):
movie have to my attention?
It does nothing quick, itdoesn't, it's painstakingly slow
and yet I find every second ofit riveting.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, you know, it's so important.
Just when you said or debt ishow.
No one knows what or debt is,but people do know.
Or debt.
And when you listen todifferent podcasts and you
listen to paul thomas anderson,he drops or debt in.
Or you listen to scorsese, hedrops or debt in.
And you know like.
You know, greats know it.

(35:15):
And cinemas, you know.
You go to the Lincoln center inNew York and they're playing or
dead and they're doing anexpose on it.
That's what I strive for as anartist and a filmmaker.
Obviously you want to be ableto pay your bills and you do
want to be successful so you canmake more cinema, right.
But really it's all aboutmaking something and you may not

(35:37):
be around for it.
I know that's when you tellyour partner in life that I
don't care.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
It'll be worth it when we're dead.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
My entrepreneurial wife is like, oh no, that's not
how we're looking at it.
But this is what happened, Isaid, when I made this role
break.
I said you know, a dream wouldbe a kid in Germany pulls off a
DVD or a Blu-ray from a libraryand it says this role won't
break and he watches it andsomehow he's transported to Deep

(36:07):
Island, to Dallas, texas.
Well, I got an email from a kid.
He was not German, he wasCanadian and he was 17 years old
and he said he rented it fromhis library.
This world won't break.
And he's watched it severaltimes and he goes.
All my friends ask is deep LMreal?
I said it's real, deep LM.
It's an art district in Dallas,texas.

(36:28):
And he goes does it take placein the eighties?
I said sort of, and I was likehe was just so intrigued and
goes I just love this movie somuch.
And I was like, wow, that's thepower of cinema.
Yeah, did not um play in allthe theaters?
And you know, it did great inthe film festival world and we
were at um, we were in a journeyand no, we're in scotland at

(36:51):
the glasgow film and one of ourscreenings was pretty thin.
I was like, oh my gosh, there'sno one really here.
You know it kind of antsy.
It was like a noon showing anda lady came out and she worked
for BAFTA and she goes.
I love this movie.
It reminds me of Horton Foot,which is he wrote Tender Mercies
with Robert Duvall and so like,in an empty theater, one lady

(37:16):
saying that one thing made myentire trip.
That's what we do, that's whatwe're making cinema for is you
can't make everything, forthat's why there's different
flavors of ice cream.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
You know you can't appease everyone, so right, yeah
well, and it's like would yourather reach a broader audience
and only like touch them for amoment and then they forget
about it.
Or touch, you know less people,but deeply where they can't
remember.
I mean even ordette.
You were like I didn't rememberwhy that shot was so familiar,
because it was maybe deep inyour subconscious but no longer

(37:48):
like intentional.
And I think, yeah, there's a,there's an author in texas,
austin cleon.
Maybe you've heard of him, buthe writes about how we are the
sum of all of our influences andthat the only common
denominator in all of your workthat you need is you.
And I love that idea that, likeI'm not trying to make this,

(38:10):
you know, we can get in ourheads like is this orthodox
enough, like you said, or isthis this enough?
Is this?
How are people going to respondto what I make?
But I think if it's deeplypersonal, then there's that
human level of connection, likewho knows, who knows what Ordead
is about?
The people who connect with iton that human level for some
reason or another and can't evenput it into words like why?

(38:32):
Why that resonated?

Speaker 1 (38:34):
yeah.
So I think we're we're prettyuh akin, uh cinematic cousins
here, but the um.
But let's go back to some of theum, the boring, I guess I I'm
gonna make the logistical mad atme um, the, the, the logistical
stuff, the, the entrepreneurial, the, like you know, going off

(38:55):
of piggybacking off your commenton I don't care if it makes
money, and then your and thenyour wife faints, right, the,
the, the, the, how, how are youguys doing this?
Because everyone does itdifferent, right, some people
have to do this as a side hustle.
Some people are managing tomake it a living.
Um, some people are, you know,raising money in different ways.

(39:17):
Um, right now, I guess what'sbeen your journey?
A little bit of your journeyand a little bit of your
everyday now, like, um, in termsof life balance and making
films how you're financing thereality.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, yeah, I mean jess can really talk about that,
but I can quickly say itchanges every single time.
Like we said, you know you guyshave young children.
Ours were young when I madethis roll on break younger and
life was different.
It was pre-epidemic pandemic,but then, because of the

(39:53):
pandemic, I was able to hop onto a distribution company that
got me into a thousand librariesand got me on, you know, online
, and so that was a differentavenue.
With el tanto per cristo, it'sbeen um, the first film we made
for almost nothing.
You know quick story.
We were at things that havethings changed.

(40:13):
It used to be really positivethat you made a film for $7,000,
like Robert Rodriguez.
You can't say that anymore.
You can't.
When you're on a podcast.
You can't say the exact amountthat you made your new film for,
because you're going throughsales and distribution and a
number changes everyone'sperception.
You know we had made this asyears ago we had made this as

(40:34):
years ago we had made this onebreak.
It premiered at one of theDallas National Film Festival
Best Feature and it took off andwent around the world and I was
so proud that I'd made it for$35,000, $36,000 over a year and
a half that's minus all the endkinds because I work in the
photo industry and do ad workand stuff like that, and so I

(40:59):
was able to to borrow and tradeon the scale of like $300,000
worth of locations and gear andso and talent.
I'm a part of a theater companyhere in Dallas called the
theater, and so it was just likeI was writing for these people
that I know.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
So I forgot that about your story, but I just
want to plug that.
I think that's brilliant.
Yeah, so many of us use actorsthat are like only working to
try and act in film, but we'relocal theater.
Talent is so good, so obvious,that I don't know why everyone
doesn't do it your way, becauseI guarantee you you got great
performances.
Because these people all thetime, all the best actors come

(41:41):
from theater, yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
And the crazy thing is they're so, they're so hungry
and they have.
They're in the real world andalso, I think, with theater
actors, they do plays constantly, so they're constantly.
Their skills are so sharpbecause if you're an actor,
maybe you did a film.
It hasn't come out for two orthree years and no one sees that
.
These guys, I mean it's raw.

(42:04):
Especially at the Okra HouseTheater, and Matthew Posey is
the creative director there.
He was in this role on breakand he plays Father John.
He's the lead role in El TantoProcristo.
I wrote it for him, I wrote themovie for matt, and I think
that's that's one thing thatyou'll never be disappointed in
in your, in your film is whenyou write for someone because

(42:25):
you're giving them the keys tothe city, right, it's, uh,
you're not like, can they handlethis?
You wrote it for them and youknow their range, um, and also
with theatrical actors, is theycan?
They're already here, all youhave to do is have them dial it
back.
It's really hard sometimes forfilm actors to, you know, to go

(42:45):
too amped up because they're soused to playing these um, um
parts.
But yeah, that was um, yeah, so, and we were talking about this
, this roll on break, and therewas investors and like there was
Dallas money around and I'm notgoing to name names.
But somebody goes what's yournext film?
I was like, oh, you know, wehave this going on, they go.

(43:06):
Would you need the same amountyou did for your last film?
What was that?
Like two, 3 million.
And we were like this was not.
We didn't know that.
You weren't supposed to say no,we didn't make it for two,
three million, I made it for$36,000 in the whole.
Like one person walked away andthen the whole room changed.
I mean it was like.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
as it came out, we thought we were like we're not
going to waste your money, lookwhat we can do with you know, we
were thinking like look what wecan do with resources If do
with.
You know, we were thinking likelook what we can do with
resources, if we can do thisamount.
So as the words were coming, Iwas like trying to bring them
back, cause it was like I mean,what'd you make this for two mil
?
They said mil, two mil, threemil, with like a little shrug

(43:45):
and I was like no, you know.
And then and then I was likewait words, come back, because
it totally devalued what weactually did.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Yeah.
So the guy was like, oh, so youcan probably raise $200,000 for
your next film on your own.
And everybody walked away and Iwas like, oh, that's just so,
it's such a backwards way ofthinking and it's just how it is
.
So you know, that's why on mostpodcasts people listen to like
no film school or making moviesis hard and stuff like that.
They always say can you talkabout the budget?

(44:17):
And people always used to talkabout the budget and now they
say it's under a million.
Cause, that's not, that's notlying, you know it's, it's, it's
it's way under a million.
But you know, yeah, so, sobranch out more.
How do we go about?
It's ever changing.
This film was a lot different.

(44:38):
We have investors.
Well, we had made a film Right.

Speaker 4 (44:43):
So, people, and it did well, you know.
So when we, when Josh did theproof of concept for this, for
El Tonto, we decided to like.
We're always we're kind of like, all right, well.
Well and this is myentrepreneurial side I'm like I
don't take no for an answer, soI'm just like, well, how?

(45:04):
So I'm always asking how can wedo this, how can we do this?
So we were looking at um it's.
We knew it was going to have tobe a SAG film.
So we also knew that if wecould do it as a SAG ULB, that
we could basically get ouractors, everything could be half
the cost.
And because we have a lot ofrelational equity over the years

(45:27):
of living in Dallas and whatJosh had described, we knew that
we could quadruple ourproduction value and our budget
of what we needed to raise.
It was kind of the sweet spotfor us, I always for Josh and I.
We walk this path as what canwe do?

(45:48):
And so it's a yes, it's an opendoor that keeps us going down
the next path.
So, while this budget was so,much more than this one won't
break.
It was also a European stylecinema, it was going to require
a lot more and it was a lot moreinvolved, also because it was a
SAG film.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
And on this film we also did what we always do,
which is we all lived in thishouse.
It was built in the late 1800s.
It's a four-story house andthat was also the monastery, but
we all lived on the secondfloor and we shot on the third,
fourth and the first and outside.

(46:31):
There's something about that.
I read that Wes Anderson alwaysdoes that he rents out an
entire boutique hotel or motelor does a little house and
everyone lives there, and soeveryone come down for breakfast
, even if they weren't shooting,and then I would be like you
know what, what if you walked by?
So you, everybody's availableand they're hungry, want to,

(46:56):
they're.
You know we only shot for, uh,14 days on this movie.
Oh my gosh, I know, but it wassun up to sun down and everybody
wanted to be in it, um, at alltimes you were walking around in
their cassocks.

Speaker 4 (47:08):
Yeah, they were walking around in cassocks, I
was constantly rewriting itbecause I had.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
I was able to do that because they were around and
they would come up and be like,ooh, what if I did this?
And I would be like, convinceme, because we only have two
hours left.
Is this important?
And sometimes it would win,sometimes it would not, and it
was still part of the story.
Um, so there's that and that'sputting everything in front of

(47:33):
the lens.
That's one thing I tell um,that's our cat.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
sorry, we don't have a cat, ours, coming in too oh
yeah, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
That sounds like a kid, he yells that was funny.
I was like I thought you guyssaid, your kids were grown yeah,
I always tell um everyone toput everything that you have in
front of that lens to and I knowit's only for a short period of

(48:18):
time because a lot of peoplewho were sagged that were around
me and some people were union,so we actually were filming
during the sag strike.
We were one of the very fewfilms to get the sag agreement.
Oh great, it came on the theday before we started shooting
and so we're able to film themovie while the rest of the
world was not.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
So that was very, very, very huge you said that
very quickly, but you got thatthe day before we got the
production we did oh my goshthree in the morning, they sent
us a I mean we had.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
there's so many miracles about that's.
There is no doubt in my mindand we could give, we could talk
for hours on it the miraclesfor this film because the budget
that it came under.
Even so, we have a consultant,producer, um, who handles our
business affairs and he actuallyworks within the Terrence

(49:16):
Malick camp too, and and when Iwas talking with him and I said,
okay, we wrapped and he goes,you did, without any incident
and like no insurance incident.
I mean I can just tell you ourmargins were so tight because of
the sad strike.
I mean we had actors but we hadthem for, like this time and we

(49:38):
had them and we didn't have abudget to go beyond our 14 days.
We had certain rentals.
Things had to go well and whilewe don't have special effects or
stuntmen or anything like that,it's still I mean you're
talking about really full days.
Things have to be.
You know we we don't needpeople getting sick.
Like you know, things have tohave to happen and there was

(50:05):
just so much protection.
Like I would literally wake upevery morning, walk the block
and I, one of my prayers, Iwould be like, okay, I felt like
this was a scene from maybeit's a wonderful life or
something, but I was just likeArchangel Gabriel.
I was like like ArchangelGabriel.
I was like I know you're reallybusy because everyone knows who
you are and didn't want youaround.
I was like but can you just takeyour wings and spread them over
this film?
Like I was just asking for allthe intercessions, all the

(50:27):
protection, because we hadenough, but we didn't have more
than enough.
We had enough.
Everything went well and up tothat point it was just there,
was you know miracles.
And then it would seem like onedoor would close hard and then
one would fling open.
So that was, but yeah, gettingthe sag.

(50:49):
So I mean, that was the thingis like we had these actors,
people flying in.
We had rentals.
This was the thing is like wehad these actors people flying
in, we had rentals.
This was the day we wereshooting.
And if they and we had beenbugging them like just every day
, all of us, full court, presscalling, emailing, we get that
email in at two, three, I don'tknow we were, it was early, the

(51:11):
wee hours of the morning we'resupposed to start and they were
like, yes, you can film, but youare not making another film
this year.
And we were like, okay, fine,we won't.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
Yeah, I think the most important thing probably
that was solidified for me thatif there's any advice for
filmmakers, it's really only beconcerned about two days at a
time, the day that you wake up.
Take care of that day andwhat's happening tomorrow,
because anything after that'sgoing to change.
It's going to be totallydifferent because but you do,

(51:44):
you can control.
So Jess was on the productionhouse.
She was controlling the nexttwo days.
I was on set filming and makingsure we were getting ready for
tomorrow and that's all you canreally really do.
I mean, you could have yourschedule, you can have things,
you need to have it mapped out,but just know you're sort of

(52:06):
only in control for about twodays and uh, and let yourself be
okay with that.
You know, and most of thefilmmaking, like you guys know,
it's it's 90 paperwork and 10%actually filming anything and
it's just putting out fires.
And if you're good at all thosethings and you have the

(52:27):
lookbook and the aesthetic andyou're prepared, and I said you
know, you say how do we do this,how do we make these films and
how do they look like they'remillion dollar films?
It's because you know we don'thave the money for
pre-production, but you do havetime.
Even though you say we don'thave time, we do like I would
after work, I would go locationscout on the weekends.

(52:47):
I would location scout, I wouldgo to thrift stores and get all
the clothes and the props, andthat's one thing that I'm very
proud of.
People always say like yourfilms, I love the costume design
and who's.
You know I'm like, it's me, Ido that, I love it.
It's very maybe that's the WesAnderson-y part of like I like
to have every.
It has to be a certain way,like even down to an ashtray.
We're shooting things in blackand white and I was like but it

(53:09):
needs to be a lighter green.
They're like what we'reshooting in black and white.
I'm like, just trust me.
And when they had it on, itlooks better.
And we'd had a black and whiteLUT the whole time, because
where we shot was very colorfuland there'd be moments of like,
oh, let's shoot in this greenkitchen.
And I would put the black andwhite camera over and be like
nope, that's not, that's a green.

(53:31):
And you could fall in love withthat, you know, if you were
shooting in color.
And yeah, I think a big thingis just don't fall in love with.
The thing I learned on this lastfilm was don't fall in love
with something too much whereyou can't see past everyone
talking to you, like those twoscenes that were not.
That didn't work and I workedeverybody way too much and it

(53:55):
didn't work.
And you know, just listening tohaving people that you trust
and love around you, and I wouldrather have a couple people
that I trust and love around meon a set than 20 people, who are
professional, who are justtrying to eat tacos and get out
for the next job.
Yeah, I can take it, you know.

(54:16):
I um, it's a.
You know we're lucky that weget to do this.
You know, we live in thiscountry and technology has
surpassed us enough where youcan have an idea and, if you
have enough tenacity and will,you can fast forward and be in a
dark room with a silver screenand a hundred heads looking at

(54:40):
what you created, and that's themost magical thing.
I don't understand how we cantake something that was in our
head and idea and, a year lateror however long, show people
what was inside your brain.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
Um, you know, and I and I think to what Josh is
saying too one of the things is,uh and it was a question that
you had asked earlier how do you?
You know the time, the money,the budget?
So a lot of what we do isin-house as well.
You know, we started our familyyounger than most, not terribly
young, but we were, you know,24 when we had Julian, and

(55:15):
Julian is now 23.
And so you know he's.

Speaker 3 (55:19):
And he's our, he's my editor.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
He's, he edited the first film and this film, so he
has some crazy editing skillsand he's the editor.
He and I produce and help,co-create, and so when we would
do things whether it's alocation scout when the boys
were young there, we throw themin the car, pack a picnic and
like that's what we're doing fora Saturday.
So these are the things thatwe've all done together.

(55:43):
You know, sonny, our youngest,he is a production assistant, so
he'd be getting, or he'd be, anactor, you know, I mean, they
both went to a performing artshigh school and so, you know,
josh would cast them, and soeverything we do we would do
together and we always have, youknow, and now they're older and
they have, you know, they'reonce graduating college, once

(56:04):
finishing up college, but westill show up and support each
other.
So we had all of this built inin-house talent.
That would have been, you know,a big chunk of a budget as well,
and so I think that when peopleare wanting to make anything
but since we're talking aboutfilm, it's, you know, what do
you have, what do you havearound you, who are, and maybe,

(56:26):
maybe you're like man, I reallydon't have much and then we'd
say well, how we got to have somuch in as a rich life is
because we would show up, notjust for each other, but for
other people, other people'sprojects, lend a hand, be around
, go the extra mile, do thosethings, and typically it'd be
things we really believed in.
We're like.
This is incredible, and Joshhas shot numerous music videos
not for everyone, but peoplethat he really believes in their

(56:49):
work and then, at the same time, could use that as test shots
for which is something we didfor El Tonto.
We use that place that becamethe monastery and did a music
video for who we really believewith that lens with that lens
and it was a test for, so it wasmutually beneficial for them
and for our film and so I feellike that's always the how and

(57:13):
for anybody doing anything on anindependent level.
We all need each other, and somy first thing is there's a lot
of personal growth.
Personal growth is usually themost free and the easiest, but
it's also the hardest.
It's you know.
So, you know, I'd say for peoplelike, start working on how you
show up for others and whereyour time, instead of like
consuming, it's creating.

(57:34):
You know, and even if even ifthat's like I always look at
things, as my entrepreneurialbrain too is all right, I want
to spend time with these peoplebecause I'm interested in their
craft, but also, let's dosomething really human.
How about we have them over fordinner?
Because the conversations arenaturally gonna happen, right,
that's where things happen.
Ideas and you're like.
I like you.
I like you too.
Let's see what we can dotogether yeah so much of

(57:58):
pre-production, pre-productionhaving way before your script is
even in process, because it'sthose things that are feel
intangible but they're worth somuch.
And I feel like now you knowwe've been married, uh, for 24
years and we've made two filmsand are working on a third
script as we're working on thetheatrical for this, and a huge

(58:21):
part of of that, I would say, ispersonal growth, health in
general, health, body, mind,spirit, you know just, and and
in that personal space, you, youare showing up for your
community and you're showing upfor others, and your time will
come.
Probably your time's not readyuntil you put some of that in
and and then, when you're ready,those people also trust you and

(58:42):
want to be part of what you'redoing as well, and so I'm really
grateful for that process andeven modeling that for our boys
to in their life and, you know,with the path that they're
taking like steven spielbergcomplex, which is like he made

(59:04):
jaws when he was 27 and what'swrong, you know, and it's like
it's this thing, it's like, well, first of all, it's not 1970,
whatever, and yeah you know, andmine's the paul thomas anderson
, he made boogie nights at 26and magnolia at 28.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Uh, I'm like what am I doing right?

Speaker 1 (59:17):
but like we also just didn't live in la at that time
and we also just didn't.
We just don't have thoseinroads like I mean I grew up in
like ohio.
It's like we also just didn'tlive in LA at that time and we
also just didn't.
We just don't have thoseinroads Like I mean I grew up in
like Ohio.
It's like it's like theantithesis of film hub.
It's like the film pit of theworld.
I mean there's no filmhappening, right?
Sorry for any listeners in Ohio, I'm exaggerating.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
We love Ohio, you can do it.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
But the something you said that I really appreciated
was the personal growth is thecheapest but the hardest, right,
like in terms of like what wecan offer in terms of value to
our art.
And it reminded me of what I'vebeen seeing, speaking of

(01:00:01):
needing to consume less.
I need to be off of LinkedInright now.
I've been seeing all those AIStudio Ghibli photos popping up
where everyone is now able tosay show me this picture in the
style of Studio Ghibli animation, and it's like this grotesque
thing, right, and I love that.

(01:00:22):
Of anything that came out ofthis, I love miyazaki's response
to it, because people showed itto him and he said I feel like
humanity is losing belief initself, something, something
along those lines 100.
And just this idea of like oh mygosh, there's this magic tool
that will do it for me, right?

(01:00:43):
And?
And this idea of like, oh mygosh, there's this magic tool
that will do it for me, right?
And this idea of like, look ifAI could make a great film.
Let's just say it's likeactually amazing, like it looks
photo real, the acting feelslike Daniel Day-Lewis is
starring in it with Meryl Streepand I don't know whatever name
your fantasy football list andit's actually great.
And it like makes me cry.

(01:01:04):
I still would have zero interestwatching it and zero interest
making it, even if I had to sitfor 100 hours and like, oh you
know, it's an AI technician, orquote-unquote.
The point is that we don't do itfor that reason, like what you
just said, we want to build acommunity.
We want to use this guy that wasin our first film that we met
through community theater andmake him star in the second film
that we wrote for him, because,like, he's an exquisite actor,

(01:01:26):
like he's this human being andwe're going to get to like spend
time together making this movie, and then we get to like, share
that movie with the world, andI don't know like what.
Why would we do this?
Well, the reason we wouldn't doit is because it'd be easy to

(01:01:49):
let something else do it for us.
But then again, that charactergrowth, that personal growth, is
gone right, and that's not whywe're alive.
Is it to like?
I don't know, it's like wally,where they're all sitting in
those floating chairs and like,literally like withering away.
And so while we, while we listall the great cinema we dropped
wally in at the, which is acapstone on all the movies we've
mentioned, yeah, just touchingon that really fast is you know

(01:02:11):
most of the cinema that I love.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
I mean, I do love cinema where it's my favorite
actors.
You know I'll admit I likeEthan Hawke.
You know there's lots of actorsthat you grow up with and you
admire.
But when you watch a film likeIda, I don't know one person in
that film.
That was that girl's firstmovie.
She was a waitress.
They scoured the earth, theycast for a year and a half,

(01:02:34):
found no one that he saw her ina cafe and she's been in nothing
since.
Yeah, and you know that's like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Brisson right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
He sense.
Yeah, and you know, that's likebressan, right, he used models,
not actors.
Yeah, exactly, you know, andthere's something you know.
So my thing is we had a coupleopportunities to have some
bigger names, but it's like it'sgoing to take away from the
film and it's also you'rebringing in an audience that
wasn't really invited.
In a way, and they're going tobe disappointed and that's a

(01:03:06):
negative review.
So that's really why and we didhave some you know Barry Corbin
, who is in no Country for OldMen.
He has the greatest monologueof all times.
He's in my film and I wrote hima monologue and it's one of
those things on set was the endof the day and we had shot for

(01:03:27):
like 10 or 12 hours.
It was 114 degrees in the Texasheat.
I remember I was in a picture.
Me and him are both grimy andsweaty and we're just a mess.
And I knew we had productionmeetings.
I had to get up super early.
We were driving to the beach toshoot and I never forget like
is this the greatest day of mylife?

(01:03:48):
It felt like it was thegreatest day because you've
written something, one of yourheroes is saying it, and you
gave it everything you had andyou got nothing left and I was
like this is why we do this,this is it If nothing else
happens.
And I was like this is why wedo this, this is it If nothing
else happens.
I have that, you know, andthat's something.
You keep adding those, you keepadding those moments and you

(01:04:11):
look back and you have four orfive films that you're so proud
of, and you can't wait to makeyour sixth.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Yeah Right, I love that because I feel like the
film itself is only a smallpiece of the whole experience
making it and we get to keepthat experience forever and
share just a little sliver of itwith everyone else.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Yeah, and those who watch it will feel it.
They will feel it and I think wethink so short term in terms of
like.
Either we think numbers likewhat's the MG this actor carries
, what's the box office we canexpect on this thing, and what
people totally forget is thatmovies you can write them into
your will, like they are goingto last longer than you, and

(01:04:49):
when we measure success based onthis, like what's going to
happen in the first 12 days intheaters or whatever you know
like, or first three days intheaters, you know, and we get
so hung up on that and it's likethen we start to make like
these, we start to play theshort game when we're actually
in.
We're in a long game and sowhat?

(01:05:11):
you guys are doing is you'reyou're taking okay, well, this
cast isn't going to bring moneyon day one of the box office and
that that could haverepercussions down the line but
most likely a stinky movie.
It's way, way, way more commonthat a stinky movie has a big
flash in the pan opening becauseyou've got marketing budget and
there's someone in it and theywant to go see it yeah, they
don't a big person, don'trecommend it to their friends

(01:05:31):
and it doesn't.
And then it just fizzles out anddisappears.
And then there's movies likethe iron giant which got like
totally short stick, right likeour brothers forgot to market it
like it's like you know likejust like nothing happened in
theaters for that movie, hardlyat all.
Like it was a bomb and thatmovie everyone deeply loved it.

(01:05:51):
I mean sorry if you didn't, butlike yeah, it's this classic
that people have just word ofmouth for not just years but
generations, like literallywe're starting to raise our kids
on movies now that bombed atthe box office but they were
beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
It's a Wonderful Life .
Even it's a Wonderful Life wasa box office bomb.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Yeah yeah, that's one of my favorite films of all
time and you know, likeShawshank, they released it two
times in the theater becausethey were like, okay, something
happened.
It didn't play at all and theydropped it again in the theaters
nothing, and it's one of thegreatest films of all time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Shawshank redemption it was like number one on imdb
for years as the greatest filmof all time like you said, or
debt, or debt's been in sightand sounds list of 100 greatest
films of all time for, yes, fordecades.
Like that's why, like you said,like all these great currently
working um, they all refer to it.

(01:06:47):
It's in their dna, which meansit's in the movies we're
watching, even if most peoplehaven't heard of this stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
So like yeah, yeah yeah, bellator was like that for
me.
I thought that he was from likethe 40s or 50s.
He made those films and I findout he started making those in
the 2000s and it's just.
You know, if you don't mindwatching a horse and carriage
for 10 minutes with wind blowing, it's probably not for you but

(01:07:12):
it's for me.
I like it because it's nothingthat I would make.
But I think if you surroundyourself with cinema like that,
that it's going to get inside ofyour blood and then maybe
you're going to hold a shot for20 more seconds, like you should
, not 20 more minutes, but 20more seconds.

(01:07:33):
Because that's like what PaulSchrader says is when the door
closes in pickpocket and thecamera pushes in on the door and
it stops as the audience you'relike is he going to come
busting back in?
Is somebody else going to openthe door?
And then it cuts to the nextscene.
But you were thinking something, we all were thinking something
.
It gives you a little bit ofanxiety, I think, which is good,

(01:07:56):
and that's super important.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Yeah, no, well, thanks for mentioning Brisson,
because a man escaped is upthere.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
I mean, come on, he says it in the title a man
escaped, you know he tells youwhat happens.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Right the ending is like he has to go make a whole
movie about it I think it'sbrilliant.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
If you can pull that off.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
you can pull anything off.
Yes, Isn't?

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
you can pull that off .
You can pull anything off.
Yes, isn't that something?
Isn't that, yeah, amazing, ohmy gosh.
Well, you guys, I don't know ifwe have one clear theme to this
conversation at this point, butit's been such a delight, super
grateful for y'all's time and,um, super excited for el tanto
por cristo.
I'm I'm genuinely very like,way more excited to watch that

(01:08:45):
film than almost any film I canthink of this year.
So when are we going to get towatch it?

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Let's end on that note.

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
Tell us yeah, so people can follow us on El Tonto
Pro Cristo on Instagram.
El Tonto Pro Cristo the movie.
Is that what it?

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
is El Tonto Pro it's on.
Instagram, and then we have ourwebsite, which is really just
kind of a holding pattern foremail.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
So right now, with you know, we submitted to some
films that are foreign filmsForeign film festivals yeah,
foreign film festivals and wekind of shot for the moon.
We've gotten some positive news.
We don't know if it's happeningor if it's not happening, but

(01:09:29):
the film will most likely bereleased theatrically
internationally first and thenit will be in theaters all over
the United States of Americanext.
But we're dropping a newtrailer.
Since we have all sound designand everything.
The film has been locked.

(01:09:49):
But we have a really excitingnew trailer coming out and just
there's some exciting thingsthat we can't discuss this
recording?
Yes, but believe me, I'm readyfor everyone to see.
It's been the hardest.
When you talk about patienceand talk about slow cinema, not
only is this slow cinema, it'sthe slowest getting it into a

(01:10:09):
cinema I feel right, that's howit goes um, you know, I have
some smart people around me andpassionate jessica and our other
producers, and they're likejosh.
Just, I know five or six monthssounds like an eternity, but
it's not.
It's the right time, yeah, um,so it's also great because I'm
I'm finishing up my new scriptfor my third film, so that's

(01:10:32):
kind of a blessing as well thatI get to I can, uh, focus on
that and we're releasing the newposter um, really, really soon
which was hand painted by thesame guy who did this one break
poster, and it's everything Icould have ever wanted in a
poster, so I'm excited torelease that as well.

Speaker 4 (01:10:49):
So yeah, so, um, if you, if you follow us, or I know
you get our email, then you'll,you're going to start to hear a
little bit more.
So it's, it's really fun tohave an inner circle of people
that are interested in reading,so you'll start to get some
regular correspondence that wayof stuff that's happening.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
Is it Josh, david Jordan people can follow the
film or is it Holyfield Films?

Speaker 4 (01:11:08):
On Instagram.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
No for the email.

Speaker 4 (01:11:11):
Oh, they go to the website or the Instagram.
They can subscribe.
I'll put it in the show notes.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Yeah, subscribe.

Speaker 4 (01:11:17):
We just encourage our listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
We do that like a weekly update.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
That would be better yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
You know, in case people aren't checking social
like yes, a lot you don't wantto be beholden to that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
So, yeah, subscribe via email if y'all are
interested, and and just so thatyou stay in the know.
Yes, and we're super excitedfor it, you guys.
Well, thank you for all theexcitement you got me.
You got me excited again I knowthat feeling.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
Yes, I hope.
I'm grateful that we got to bea part of also.
Uh, uh, I'm excited to followy'all's.
Is you're filming festivalsright now?
The documentary?

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
yeah, I'm right in paradise is currently still in
festivals and it will be um onceagain.
Nothing has been etched instone yet, and I'm feeling the
same antsiness in terms of beingpatient with like okay, like
let's take that deal or let's dothis thing or whatever, and I
go no, okay, it's just going totake some time.
We're still working, workingthe phones on that and it's it.

(01:12:16):
But, like you said, promisingthings, it feels good, so well,
congratulations on that guys.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
Yeah, thank you guys.
Congratulations, thank you.
Thank you guys.
Awesome, we'll talk to you guyssoon.
We're excited to stay in touch.
All right, bye-bye.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Bye Wait wait.