September 1, 2022 • 41 mins
If you work with someone you love or are have family roles to play whilst also working on a film production, this episode is for you.
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Episode Transcript
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Kent (00:20):
Hi, welcome to today's episode.
Today, we're going to talk aboutmaking films together.
And some of the things thatwe've learned.
As a married couple.
And as parents.
And just balancing all of thesepriorities and making films on
the same set at the same time.
So this is.
(00:42):
A story that's long in themaking and we wanted to review
or revisit this topic, which issomething we've definitely
talked about before.
but just, we wanted to sharesome of our own personal
experiences, I think, and thenkind of think about some.
Overarching principles thatwe've picked up along the way.
because I think the last time wetalked about this was, at least
a year ago, at least hittingthis directly.
(01:05):
And we've talked a lot about thebenefits of making films.
And we've talked a lot about howit's possible to make films with
families.
and a lot of people think thatthat's really, really difficult
or impossible.
In this industry.
And maybe it's an unsaidimpossibility, but I think it's
an that sits in a lot ofpeople's So we just wanted to
share our story.
It's something that we decided,I think upon getting married,
that we were just going to rightinto having kids.
(01:27):
And we were just going to rightinto making films, but.
We've quickly realized that washarder.
Then it seemed, and also.
We've also learned over thecourse of a few years.
That, it's possible.
And it's been quite the featureThere's the end of the second
act, dark night of the soul kindof stuff.
Right.
Where it's like, oh, they failedand they're not going to get it
(01:49):
there.
We've definitely had thosemoments right.
Where it's like, okay, This isthat we're never doing this
again.
This doesn't work it'simpossible.
And then we kind of, I don'tknow, gained some weight and
didn't see anyone.
Never spoke to people.
And then.
We shaved our beards.
It came out of hiding.
(02:09):
And save the world essentially.
that's, that's what happens inacts three.
third acts.
Shave
Anna (02:16):
our beer, Okay.
Kent (02:17):
Yeah.
what I mean?
They kind of have a anyway.
So, yeah.
Anna (02:24):
Well, So, this is an interesting topic.
It's definitely the question weget the most from other people
who are considering havingfamilies or who are interested
in the fact that we both areinvolved in film.
Eventually they always ask.
How do you do it?
How do you make films and alsohave kids Be married.
(02:46):
Which is really the questionthat we should've asked before
we tried to do it and didn'tthink to,
Kent (02:51):
but, but we couldn't have answered the question if we had
asked it over ourselves Andthat's I think kind of what
defines a dream.
You say I'm going to dosomething and someone says how
and you go, I have no idea.
Like, we don't have a plan.
We don't know how we're going todo it.
We're just going to kind ofthrow our bodies in its general
direction and hope that like, wedon't die.
It's like, We get a range forhelp, but then we'd taken over
(03:13):
the house for film.
And so.
There was like nowhere for themto go.
It was bad.
It was a logistical nightmare.
And, and that led to just allsorts of problems.
And so, I'm just going to tryand.
I will fail.
And then I'll try again.
And it's like exponentiallearning in that, in Well,
Anna (03:33):
yeah, and I think we went into it.
Trying failing.
Miserably and not trying againfor a while, and we won't get
too much into the details of thefailure, but we'll say that we
made our feature film together.
I was directing Kent was deepingand producing.
And we cast our kids in themovie.
(03:54):
So it really was a familyordeal.
And that was very difficult.
It was extremely hard on thefamily.
We've talked about it before.
After, so.
We haven't mentioned thisbefore, but afterwards we
basically said.
At first, it was, let's just notdo film because we were ready to
give up entirely.
And then.
(04:15):
Eventually it turned into, okay.
We'll still do film, but justnot at the same time and
definitely not with our kidsonset.
And maybe we'll just each do ourown separate projects until the
kids leave home.
We can take turns doing ourmovies
Kent (04:31):
and we can help each other on each other's projects.
Just not on set at the sametime, because it was the main
reason being is that it was sostressful.
We were trying to figure out howto take care of the kids.
Cause we didn't want to neglectWe inevitably were I think, one
of the things that we decidedwas.
Oh, like, I'll make the nextfilm.
Cause you directed this lastone, but we, I mean, we really.
(04:53):
It's really our film.
In many, in all ways almost,but.
I've really wanted to direct.
And so we thought, okay, so wethought it would be my turn to
direct.
And so I was going to prep aproject and I was going to prep
a project in the meantime tomake she'd do it.
After mine was done, she'd haveplenty of time to prep it and we
just wouldn't be on settogether.
And then something kind ofunexpectedly forced our hand to
(05:15):
reconsider that.
And it was somewhat recently,but we got hired to make a
project.
It was a commercial film.
And we've talked about this aswell on the podcast, but because
we do a lot of pre-productionand a lot of post-production.
We're not just like contractdirectors.
Hopping from set to set orcontract.
Filling the blank, DP, actor orwhatever.
(05:36):
Like we do some of those kindsof things where I'll on a set
and shoot it, or animal, on aset and act and in, or whatever.
But.
For the most part, if we'retaking something on together.
It's something we both reallywant to do.
And we're both like highlyinvolved in the project through
pre.
And through production andthrough post.
But that's rare ish.
(05:57):
Like we don't do them like everyweek.
And so what happened was weended up needing Anna to act in
a project.
Because, a change happened,someone dropped out last minute.
And we decided to try it andAna.
Hadn't been acting very much upto that point.
And we had sort of already swornoff doing stuff together on the
(06:19):
same set, but we just thought,okay, well for the same money,
we would've paid an actor.
We'll just get someone to helpwatch our It
Anna (06:26):
wasn't a feature film.
It's just a little commercial.
It didn't seem like a big deal.
And honestly, What we weretrying before that.
Could work for a lot of people.
If you are doing stuff where youare on set, most of the time.
Like we said pre and postproduction are flexible.
So we're able to just, weusually switch off days.
I'm working and the other personwatches the kids and we just,
(06:47):
that works for us.
We've also switched off likehalf days.
Things like that.
And then when you're onproduction, just, one person's
at home taking care of the kidsin the family, and one person is
out working.
That's usually what we do.
And that can work great for alot of people that could work
just fine.
but if there are projects youwant to work on together, then
they become sort of not anoption or not an option until
(07:10):
later.
And so.
Kent said this happened and, andthey needed an actor.
last minute.
To fill in and we've thoughtit's just a small project, so
let's, let's get a babysitter.
Let's try it out.
It's just, one thing and then wedon't have to do it again.
but it ended up being.
Really healing and a really goodexperience.
(07:32):
And we'll tell you
Kent (07:32):
why.
Yeah.
And so ultimately I think one oftheir main reasons that it was
so enjoyable was, logisticallyit was a more prepared project
than the feature which we rightinto.
I think that's probably thebiggest thing.
And we've talked about that indetail, Since we were more
prepared logistically, I thinkit allowed us to have like a lot
of conversations about thecharacter and get prepared.
Anna was really prepared andthen we showed up and we shot
(07:54):
this thing and there was no likememorization or dialogue or
anything.
It was just, it was like asilent film almost with a
commercial with narration overAnd so that just let us, I don't
know, it was kind of relaxed andfun.
And we shot over several days.
mostly just weekends.
And so, it was just like acouple of days.
Or it was really one day a weekfor a few weeks.
(08:14):
And the kids basically got likea big, long data.
Have a good time with their,friends and, cause that's, we
had someone who had similar agedkids.
Watch the kids and that workedout super good.
And so.
We took that as like a proof ofconcept afterwards.
And.
The other big thing I think wasthat.
(08:37):
There can be marital stress and,everyone has different
personalities and they're indifferent places.
Maritally.
If they can collaborate likethis.
And for a lot of our listenersthat just doesn't apply.
Like most of us don't havespouses that are in film with
us.
But some of us do.
And I think that some people askus, like, how do you do that?
How do you both be married andwork together?
Anna (08:56):
We've heard tons of people say we would kill each other.
If we were working together allday.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Kent (09:05):
I well, and what's funny is we kind of judge people for
saying that.
And then I think we did findourselves in a position where
maybe that was.
Not to that point, obviously,but like, we were not feeling
great.
We were, and I don't really feellike it was like a huge marital
thing, but it was so hard thatlike, stress is stress and that
spills over into other parts ofour lives.
We know that like, if we'restressed at work, sometimes we
(09:27):
bring it home.
Right.
And so sometimes if we'restressed at home, sometimes we
bring it to work and.
And not always, but that canhappen.
And I think that for, for us, Ithink the stress overall was
just so overwhelming.
That we thought we would not beable to work together.
And that's just at least for thesake of dividing and conquering,
(09:48):
Just so that it was just reducedoverall life stress.
And on this one, it was actuallylike a reversal.
It was like, it was like achange.
what is it a.
Who was it?
Who said a change is as good as
Anna (10:00):
arrest?
Yeah, that was Tilton hall.
My friend has his dad would saythat cause they would build
fences together.
And so it's like a reallyrepetitive motion you do over
and over And every once in awhile they'd switched the jobs
they were doing, which kind oflet them use a different arm.
And his dad would say, Hey,change is as good as arrest,
(10:20):
which I love because they'restill working, but changing
muscles, kind of changing therhythm.
Yeah.
It's really nice.
Kent (10:29):
Well, and it did nothing bad for our family, I think, to,
delegate the watching of thekids for a day a week.
And I think.
Anna (10:36):
There was a play date.
Well, there's a
Kent (10:37):
lot of drama, I think mentally that happens with a lot
of parents too.
I think for this, like, It'slike, oh, how much childcare
should I or, or can I.
Purchase, I guess, I don't know,like you're, you're, you're
getting help to watch your kidsand some, you can't delegate
that job completely.
No one else can be a parent toyour child.
And, yet, like, I think thatit's up to each of us to decide
(10:57):
how much help we're going tosolicit in that way.
And I'm not here to prescribewhat that number is, but it was
something we felt good aboutonce a week for a few weeks.
That felt fine.
And, yeah, the kids felt great.
They loved it.
It was a new environment forthem.
And obviously the kid'stemperament and development
stage might have a lot to dowith, if that's an option for
(11:18):
you.
or if you think that that's agood idea or not, that's
obviously a parental decision.
And, so for us maritally as wellas that changes as good as
arrest.
I think that was a rest for ourkids.
I think they were happy to breakup the routine a little bit,
spend time with new people in anew place.
And for us, it was spending timewith each other, working in a
way that we don't usually getAnd, Also in a new environment.
(11:39):
And so in that way, I think itwas actually really good for the
family.
I think we just, we came at lifewith like a new energy.
Looking forward to something.
And also looking forward tobeing back together, It was, it
was good.
And, learned a lot of lessonsthrough it.
Yeah,
Anna (11:54):
I'd love to kind of break down the main things that we
felt like worked this timearound, or that didn't work the
first time around, just so thatyou guys, if you are attempting
this or trying to find thisbalance, get some ideas of.
What worked for us or whatdidn't.
So Ken, I'm curious if you havelike specific things that you
would say.
(12:15):
Made it different this time thanthe time before.
Kent (12:18):
Well, Before I like to talk about that, but I'll also
mentioned that we've done itagain since the project that
we've referenced, where youacted in it.
We did another project where youdirected it.
It was a commercial project andID peed it.
And then did most of the work inposts that you directed me
through And, that project wasalso a really good experience.
We did a similar approach,except it wasn't, it didn't
(12:41):
necessitate as much shooting.
So it was really just a two dayshoot, but we had to travel.
So it was about four days thatwe left and we had to get, once
again, we had to find a placefor the kids to We ended up
doing the exact same arrangementas before.
And it was great.
They looked forward to it forweeks.
They loved it and we came backand it was a lot of fun.
And, for the most part, Ithought that was good, but I
(13:01):
learned different things on thatshoot than on this one.
And I think that taking both ofthose together to answer your
question, I learned, It soundssilly, but I think when both of
us show up as prepared to dowhatever our role is, whether
you were acting or directing orwhether I was directing or
deeping Whatever I'm coming asprepared as possible.
I think reduced a lot of S a lotof stress.
(13:23):
And so the experience reallypositive.
So the first one was fiction.
You were very prepared, I think,as an actress, especially given
your short notice, it was liketwo days before.
You jumped onto Into thatposition.
And I had really prepared thatparticular one, but it was
fiction.
It was like a fiction narrativecommercial.
(13:43):
And so we'll post it in the shownotes.
If you.
Yeah, we could.
but it was the point is, is thatit was able to be shortlisted.
We could shortlist it veryspecifically.
We storyboarded it, we Tekscouted, we location scouted.
Whereas this one was.
It was, a remote shoot, notremote, but like out of it was
out of state.
We had to travel And it was alive event for corporate.
(14:06):
client.
And that's very different,right?
We, we could shortlist a littlebit, but we didn't really know
what the location looked like.
There was a limit as toequipment we could bring with us
versus rent.
And with rental equipment alwayscomes like last minute, like
figuring stuff out.
So this stuff adds to like,They're being a little less
ability to prepare.
(14:26):
And so I thought that was aslightly more stressful shoot
for me.
But, I mean, that goes for anyshoot.
Right.
But it especially matters.
I think if we're married, Thatwe're highly prepared and that
we're both preparing for therole, because if we're onset and
things don't feel prepared andwe're getting stressed Well with
(14:46):
like a professionalcollaborator, it's really easy
to be like, okay, I need to bepatient with this person so they
can keep performing.
But when it's your spouse, thatfamiliarity sometimes breeds
contempt.
Right?
And so we are sometimes not asprofessional with each other.
So I think that.
that preparation, I think isjust, it's always been kind of
one in my mind, since we've hadthese experiences.
Anna (15:06):
Yeah, definitely.
I think preparation is huge.
And on that same note to adegree, I feel like it's
important to realize You don'twant to wear too many hats or
play too many roles andparenting is a role.
And even being a spouse is arole that you play and.
(15:26):
I didn't think of it that way.
When we made our feature Butwhen we were on set.
Those kids needed.
Our kids.
Needed to help them kids, kidsthat we found.
needed help to get into their toget their hair done, to learn
their lines, to learn what theyneeded to do.
And in between the times that weneeded them, while they're on
(15:47):
set, they need someone watchingthem and making sure they're
not.
Running off or getting intothings or being loud, or, and we
thought that what they'regetting fed.
Kent (15:56):
Yeah, well, we thought that we'd prepared for that.
We we'd we'd brought someone onjust to help watch the kids, but
they were going to take the kidsoff set and kind of help them
have like a life, like,especially when they weren't
needed.
But there was no one on set totake care of the kids between
takes.
It seems obvious, but that sincethere were multiple kids, that
was multiple people that wouldhave been needed to do that
(16:19):
because you don't want all thekids on set.
Especially since the youngest atthe time was like one and a
half.
Way too young to be.
On a set.
Like they can't be quiet.
Right.
And, unless they're in thescene, then it's like put them
in there.
So when they're not being used,they need to be a way like
completely offset.
Anna (16:37):
So you need someone to take care of each child or each
location.
someone on set with kids,someone offsite with the kids.
But, but I guess that was.
Part of the point The role of,for example, hosting, we, we
filmed in our own house, therole of.
Making meals for kids, the roleof, Getting them ready for their
(17:00):
part.
All of those things are rolesand, And so if you aren't going
to assign that job to someone,you need to make sure you're not
giving yourself too many jobs.
And even as a married couple, wehave to be able to say like,
okay, Sometimes I step in asyour spouse is like a support
and a friend, and we can talkthrough things if you're
stressed and then sometimes weneed to be professional and get
(17:22):
a job done.
And we need to know when to kindof step in and out of those
roles.
And I think.
Stepping into a professionalrole.
Was easier to do on some ofthese other sets.
we had other people around us.
Who were all professionalcollaborators.
And I think that helped itdoesn't feel so much like.
Just us.
(17:43):
Trying to make a thing happen.
there were a few differentreasons why.
It was easier to beprofessional, but I think that
also made a difference.
Kent (17:50):
Yeah.
Well, and I think that like,Sometimes if life is getting so
stressful or the movie's gettingso stressful, it's like the mom
part of you or the wife part ofyou or the dad part of me or the
husband.
Pardon I was so stressed thatit's like, I needed you to be a
spouse or vice versa.
And it's like, we almostcouldn't let each other step
into the professional role, likeenough to get the job done.
(18:12):
I think which added like, Aburden and a stress to the
project, whereas like, For me,there's a lot of mental drama
around, delegating anythingregarding my kids.
And so like, I was kind ofalluding to that before, but
like, I don't like delegatingalmost anything.
So we homeschool.
So that's just one thing thatlike, most people delegate.
And I think that's fine.
(18:32):
I like.
I'm really grateful for publicschools existing in our society.
but I just, for some reason,I've always felt like I wanted
to.
Play a very central role inthat.
And, and in the education of mychildren
Anna (18:44):
specifically, Let us be more flexible.
It's something
Kent (18:47):
that helps as filmmakers.
It has actually been a reallybig blessing.
Anna (18:51):
We can travel.
We can take days off whenever weneed to.
So that's been strategic for usas well.
Kent (18:58):
but, even, still it's also a burden in some ways,
obviously.
And so,
Anna (19:02):
yeah, it's definitely time commitment, but it also, in some
ways helps me feel like.
Almost more justified in thetimes when we do.
Hire out caretaking because Iget to spend so much time with
my kids so much more than theaverage parent.
That it feels balanced to
Kent (19:18):
me.
And I spend much more time thanthe average dad, because we
swapped days.
So these are all systems thatwe've developed for ourselves
and our families.
But, my point is, is that justmentally, I think there's a
block there where it's very hardfor me to, like you said,
justifying my own mind.
Like none.
And I feel like a bad dad.
And, once again, I mean, I'veseen people who they do, they do
(19:40):
childcare daily.
With kids younger than ours.
And you know, what, they'remaking it work in a way that
they seem to have a very strongrelationship with these young
children as parents.
And I don't know how they do it,but there.
That's because that's theirsystem.
That's their life.
That's there.
Relationships.
And I think there are somepeople can make that work.
(20:02):
And I think I've had to openthat up in my own mind to accept
that.
but I also, I guess my pointhere is.
What I really realized on afeature film is that it's way
more responsible.
To delegate the care of thosechildren than to try and bring
them with me everywhere when Iam absolutely not capable of
(20:22):
giving them the attention andthe love that they need.
Because set was not a goodparenting environment.
It was not a good childenvironment.
It was not a good place.
For our kids at the time.
And it might've been, if there'dbeen more people helping, if
there had been, I don't know,just more preparation for that
(20:43):
to occur, but we just We justdidn't know what we didn't know
and we didn't account for all ofthose things.
And so I just have learned, I'velearned that, There's really a
time and a place for me to showup as the best parent that I can
be.
And when I need to provide, Ican.
Make sure that.
My children are taken care of.
in a way that's best for thatsituation.
(21:04):
And I think giving myself thatlatitude and kind of waking up
to that, like, And getting ridof the black and white sort of.
I don't judgment.
Like self judgment around.
That particular issue has been achallenge for me, but I think
it's been good because.
I've definitely felt betterabout the experience my children
are having when I've not beenwith them.
(21:25):
I'm working.
And they're having a great time.
With friends and getting theeducation they need while I'm
gone.
Then when I was like trying topull them in onset.
Yeah, no homeschool happened forweeks while we were working on
that feature.
Nothing happen.
It was no education, not a lotof, Good examples from mom and
dad, we were too stressed andnot at our best.
(21:47):
And so, yeah.
Anna (21:49):
I think this is definitely, something that women
face probably more often thanmen.
Kent (21:55):
Yeah, and I think I face it more than most men because of
my central Because I have somuch more time with them on like
a daily, like morning throughafternoon basis.
Yeah, every other day, thanmost.
Than most dads.
And there's a lot ofstay-at-home dads now and
Anna (22:13):
well, and there are a lot of other things too, I've
thought about how pregnancylike.
Can completely take over yourlife in a way where, when I'm
first pregnant, I get very sickand it's really hard for me to,
to get any good work donebecause I'm so nauseated.
but.
Or even acting, there's a lot ofacting roles that I can't do if
(22:34):
I'm pregnant and, after baby'sborn her, name's Gallica DOE.
It can happen.
But it's rare and it's kind oftricky to navigate.
So.
Even after having a newbornbaby, those newborn babies are
very dependent on shut thingsdown for awhile on mom, And
I've.
Done production still where I'vetraveled and I'm pause, I'm
(22:56):
pumping milk to feed the babiesand I get back and it's a tricky
thing.
To balance it can be done, but,add that on top of.
The usual Mom guilt or feelinglike.
You should be there.
I think it's, it's really goodto realize At least for me, this
helps.
I'm not always the best personto watch my kids.
(23:19):
And I think it's my job to makesure that they are taking care
of their needs are met.
They're in good hands of peopleI trust and completely believe
But it's not always me and I'mnot always better than someone
else.
And it's like, I've been humbledenough times to think who am I
to say that I'm a better parentor that I will do a better job?
Taking care of this child, justbecause I gave birth to this
(23:41):
child.
And in some ways I am, because Iknow them and I love them deeper
than most people,
Kent (23:47):
I think in the longterm, like.
In the.
There's a part of us, right.
As parents, that, we are thebest.
Person or a rather.
I don't know, it's hard to, it'shard to define there's
exceptions to all of thesethings, right.
I mean, we just did foster careand we know that there's some
times.
Hard situations where these.
(24:09):
Relationships.
As important as they are.
Aren't the safest place forchildren.
And that's not, I think theplace where most of us are at,
right.
And if.
Most of us.
if there's something happeningwith like drug addiction or if
the home just isn't safe orthere's abuse, then.
That can sometimes necessitatea, but even in those
(24:30):
circumstances, no matter whatsomething we've learned through
the foster system is that.
No matter how bad it is or howdangerous and environment it is
for child.
No matter how good or safe thenew environment is for child.
Particularly child in the fostercare system.
They're going to want to go backto Birth parents, like they want
(24:50):
to go back and there's traumainvolved with that separation.
And so part of me does say, Yes,we want to be the best parents
we can because we are the bestpeople to take care of those
children.
But then there are somecircumstances where we're not,
I'm not disagreeing I just thinkthat it's our job to judge when
those moments are, it's a
Anna (25:08):
complex issue and it is our responsibility by bringing
the children into the world andaccepting, that responsibility
to take care of them, to makesure We're giving them the best
care that they can, whetherthat's like I'm actually giving
the care myself or I'm hiringsomeone else to But.
I definitely feel like.
Me when I'm onset anddistracted.
(25:29):
Is not going to be a better momthan someone who I'm paying.
Who wants to do this?
Who loves watching kids?
You know, there's great peopleout there who can help out.
And it takes a village.
It really does to, raise achild.
Right.
And I think it's been reallyhealthy for our kids too.
Have that experience of seeingsomeone else's home and.
(25:52):
Getting to have a play date, butagain, it's just one day a week
and it's not like we come homeand wow.
You've grown up and I haven'tseen you forever.
It's like, Oh, how was your playdate?
Did you have a fun day and hangout all week and then we'll do
another one.
And I mean, I didn't make.
You mean for this episode to beso much about childcare?
(26:13):
And childcare, but it definitelyis a topic that Thoughtful
about.
For
Kent (26:17):
us, it was huge.
And it had a huge effect on usworking on set together.
I mean, it was massive.
And that's something we've justhad to figure out and.
Anna (26:24):
even the preparation you were talking about, I think is
huge.
Preparing someone to watch yourchildren.
Is a lot of work too, becausechildren have Yeah, they have
their schedule.
They have when they need to napand when they go to bed and what
the discipline methods are andwhat they eat and all of those
things have to be prepared andcommunicated and figured out in
(26:48):
advance.
And if they aren't.
It's very hard to step out ofthat role.
And focus on something else,because even on our feature
film, that was kind ofdisastrous when I wasn't.
On set.
I was still texting.
the caretaker.
And trying to figure out.
Where things were, where theirclothes are, what they like to
(27:10):
eat, what to do about, somethingthat they were running into.
And that was also something thatI had not prepared.
And this next time around, I wasvery carefully.
Working together with thecaretakers.
To prepare.
schedule and the routine andmake sure she had all the
supplies she needed and was goodto go.
So.
house to herself.
Kent (27:31):
no, where we were not shooting.
Anna (27:34):
And very essential.
And so I think that preparation.
For that role was also
Kent (27:39):
vital.
So I think what's interestingis, I want to bring up something
that Jody Moore, who is Anna'slife coach.
Who's really amazing.
And she's also becoming asbusiness coach.
She said something in a liveevent that we attended recently.
And she said, I'm talking aboutdreams and how they're different
from goals.
Is that a dream is somethingthat's basically impossible.
(28:01):
And when we really decide tohold onto a dream.
it needs to sound crazy.
It usually makes us very scared.
And when we start towards it, Wehave to be extremely bad at it.
Like we don't even know what todo.
And if we do know what to do, weknow that we don't know how to
do it, And so she talked aboutto a lot of people who were
(28:23):
starting businesses who mightneed to learn how to do a
webinar.
And she basically said, Do.
A webinar, how you learn how todo webinars, make a bad webinar.
And do 25 bad webinars.
And the woman said, well,webinars harder than a podcast.
Cause you have to wear makeup.
And she said, Do I do 25 badwebinars and then, and then put
(28:47):
lip gloss on or something.
It's.
It's like on the 26th.
And so I just it's this like, Weget good at things by being bad
at them.
And Alexander mackendrick saidthe same thing about filmmaking.
He, he said, one of the biggestthings that students struggle
with is that they're just notdoing a high enough volume of
work and they need to get usedto doing the work so that once
(29:09):
the work can become secondnature.
Then they can.
Become creatively minded on.
These projects, And, and so forus, I think the dream was okay,
we're going to be married.
We're going to have kids.
We're actually going to be likea happy family and we're going
to make movies together.
And we just didn't even, part ofit was just, we were Mr.
(29:29):
Burns too ignorant, stubborn.
S dreamy eyed.
I don't know what it was, but wewere just like, of course
that'll work out.
Great.
And you're going to be afull-time mom.
And you're going to work andmake movies with me.
I don't understand.
And we're going to homeschool.
it was like, it didn't make anysense, like all this stuff, and
yet we are kind of doing it.
You basically, we've just walkedinto it and we were bad at it
(29:51):
for several years.
And I think after nearly eightyears of marriage in the last
two years, we've made.
Huge strides towards figuring itout.
And.
we're not perfect at it, butwe're getting a lot better at
it.
And I think we're just learninghow to like the work is not.
The problem as much anymore.
(30:13):
And the family, Leo logisticsare not the problem.
It's just now we're able toshift our mind towards the
creative and, I think it'ssomething we just, we can accept
that without drama.
We can just say, yeah, like.
Is this going to take quite anumber of years to figure out,
and it might be hard and wemight make some big mistakes.
We may have to make a lot ofapologies.
Ah, to each other and to ourkids and to the rest of the crew
(30:36):
and to other people and, and,that's okay.
Like, I don't know.
I'm starting to really acceptthe fact that that learning
process costs what it costs.
And.
We didn't know what we didn'tknow.
And we did know what we didn'tknow in some cases, and we just
had to learn and we had to bebad at it.
And boy, were we bad at it?
And yet I think we're creatingsomething, not just the movie.
(30:57):
Although I do think the movie isreally great.
It's coming together in a waythat I'm excited about, the one
that was really hard.
But when I say we're makingsomething, I'm referring to the
family and the life.
Of being married filmmakers thatactually can work together on
projects, not every singleproject, but.
when it's, when it makes sense,we work together and it's really
(31:18):
exciting and fun.
And I think, especially with thefeatures, we're going to keep
working together.
and I, and that's starting tobecome almost obvious.
Logistically like.
listening to this podcast, wehaven't shared anything.
That's like super mind blowingsecrets or anything.
It's just stuff we didn't know.
It's just, if we didn't think tothink And that's how it'll be
for you.
It'll be a mystery.
It'll be a big, scary dream.
(31:39):
And then once you figure it out,you're gonna look back and go,
well, that's all it was.
We just had to like, get ababysitter, I guess.
Anna (31:45):
Think And so, yeah.
It's that simplicity on theother side of complexity, where
things all seem simple until youtry to do them.
And then it gets complex.
And then through all thatcomplexity, if you can stick
with it through the complexityand the chaos long enough, it
becomes simple again.
And you find A way that worksfor you.
(32:07):
And we've shared some of thethings that have worked for us.
But you'll have to find whatworks for you and for your
family.
And it, it might be totallydifferent, but just believing
that it is possible and movingthrough, being bad at it.
And staying with it long enough.
I think that's It will, post inthe show notes was such a great
experience for us was because ithelped us realize that it was
(32:29):
possible.
And.
that we were actually livingsomething we dreamed of.
Long ago and didn't think waspossible and thought we failed
at it was kind of comingtogether and starting to And so,
our.
Production company's calledinvisible mansion.
And there's lots of things that,that means, but for me, it also
(32:50):
one thing that it means is.
Is your inner life, you liveinside of your life and inside
of your experience of your life.
And no one sees that except foryou.
And.
in a Hollywood studio lot, theremight be like fronts where
there's a whole street.
If you've ever gone in toward.
Where does that universalstudios or whatever they take
(33:12):
you out.
And there's a whole street ofstorefronts, but they're all
false.
Like, it looks very real, butthen behind it, it's just a
wall.
There's nothing back there.
And a lot of people, I think inour industry, May have that.
You may be living that where youfeel like it looks good to
everyone on the outside, but I'mthe one inside of it.
(33:33):
Living it and I feel empty and Ifeel like I'm not doing all the
things I want And it looks good,but isn't.
And then some of you might belike, we were trying to build
this mansion, this.
All of these things.
We wanted family and film andworking together and being
married and having kids andhomeschooling and all of these
(33:53):
things.
We're laying this foundation.
And it's huge and it takes toinclude all the walls we're
going around in circles, layingbricks.
And not seeing much progress andit looks bad, from the outside,
it doesn't look impressive andit's going to rain and you're
going to get wet and it's gonnafeel Man.
I wish I wish I could havesomething that looked as nice as
(34:16):
whatever else just threw upreally quickly.
And, and yet you get to a pointwhere you've built something
really sturdy and it's includesand has a room for everything
that you want to be part of yourAnd I think it was just one of
those moments where if you'veever built a house, do you like
kind of walk in?
(34:36):
You're like, wow, this isactually like starting to like
to get like a house, like.
I can't really live in it yet.
It's not the dream But I'mseeing.
I'm seeing it.
Be realized in front of my eyes.
Yeah.
Kent (34:48):
So yeah, I can see without as much stretch of the
imagination.
Is that it's getting real.
Yeah.
And, and that's something thatlike, we're just delaying for
ourselves by putting up falsefacades.
We are.
Those a false facade gets thejob done for as long as it gets
the job done.
But behind it.
(35:08):
Things start falling apart.
And I think that's why.
In this in many otherindustries, especially in
Hollywood where the expectationis like, Hot from set to set
work 14 hour days.
And.
I mean, it's getting I thinkthere, there are some systemic
changes that need to behappening in our industry, but.
Even if those system changesnever happen.
(35:29):
What Anna and I truly believe isthat we can make.
Personal and familial changes.
That make it possible for us todo the things that we dream of
without waiting on the world tochange as John Mayer.
Unwisely suggests that we all doso.
I liked John Maris music.
So, sorry.
She was a great musician.
And, and so.
(35:51):
That's encouraging for me.
And I hope it's encouraging forothers who might have some
aspect of their dream.
Whether it's similar to ours orcompletely different.
Things especially feelimpossible when it feels like no
one else in the world is doingit the way you want to do it.
And we definitely felt that waythinking.
Yeah, we're going to have kidsright away and we're going to
get married young, and we'regonna go straight into film.
(36:12):
We're going to both be in filmand we're going to homeschool
and yada, yada, yada.
Et cetera, et cetera.
It's like, it just was like thispicture that it was like,
everyone goes, that's not howpeople do it.
Right.
It's like, it just feels sodifferent.
And your picture is going tofeel that way.
I mean, if you really being trueto yourself and you're, and
you're putting the dreamtogether, It's going to be
unique in some way.
It's going to go.
No one else.
I've never seen Quite like this,but that's kind of exciting.
(36:34):
You can pave that way.
for other people and just.
Be brave enough to be differentand, and be okay with being
really bad at it.
And then you'll figure it out.
It'll come together with time.
So.
Yeah.
Anna (36:48):
Yeah.
I, one other thing that I wouldjust throw in there is I think
it's important to not wait.
To try to do all the things tomove forward with all of
Kent (36:58):
the things I think it's important to, to start as early
Anna (37:02):
Early as you can, because if you're laying a foundation.
You want to lay it all the wayaround all of the things that
you want to have in your house,right?
You don't want to just.
Lay the foundation in one areaand build that one area.
That's the false facade we weretalking about.
And I think I see a lot ofpeople.
Approaching balance.
(37:22):
Like, I'm just gonna lean reallyhard into the career and then
I'm going to lean completelyinto family.
And then I'm going to go backinto the career and it's like
this.
Balancing act where you'reswitching from one end of the
scale to the other and trying togive yourself whiplash.
Yeah, like call that balancebalance is not one side slamming
to the ground while the otherone shoots up.
(37:42):
And then the other side slammingto the ground while the other
one shoots up.
Balances, both maintaining bothat the same time.
And so whatever those dreams arefor you, I think make sure that
you're working towards them.
And all of them, even if it'sjust 10 minutes a day, even if
it's just.
Once a week, whatever it is.
And on that note, we have, anoffer.
(38:05):
Now we offer three freeGreenlight calls every week
within our program, which.
it's just to add onto thatchecklist.
We feel like a lot of peopledownload the checklist, love the
checklist.
And if you're not Do anything on
Kent (38:18):
it?
Yeah.
And if you're not familiar withthe free checklist, it's a make
your first feature filmchecklist that goes through.
All the way from ideation anddevelopment, all the way through
distribution and sales.
every single, every single stepthat we can think of in that
filmmaking process, and that'sfree.
And if you don't already havethat, then we can put that in
the show That's
Anna (38:39):
always in the show notes.
So you can download that.
if you don't have it already andif you do.
But you haven't been using itvery regularly.
we highly encourage you to takeadvantage of the Greenlight
call.
And I think some people waitbecause they think, I don't
know, like maybe once I.
Once I've written the script,then I'm ready to move forward
and do this Greenlight callwhere we'll help you make a
(38:59):
plan.
It doesn't really make yourfeature film.
Cause
Kent (39:01):
we have resources on there to help you like push that
script forward.
Anna (39:05):
We have resources that will help you through all the
stages.
So wherever you're at, even ifit's just, I'm kind of thinking
about this idea.
Definitely take advantage ofthat.
It's a way that we like to giveback is opening up those three
calls a week.
so jump on and grab them beforethey fill up.
And.
we'd love to help you getstarted on making this dream a
(39:25):
reality.
And something that is becomingreal for you in your life.
Kent (39:29):
Absolutely.
Well, we hope you really enjoyedthis episode.
We've really enjoyed.
recording it and talking aboutit.
Thanks Santa.
For.
Push me around in my brain withsome good questions and such.
And so, yeah, it's always goodto remember what we've learned
and, we hope that it's beenhelpful and we are excited to
see as you guys take thechecklist and the Greenlight
(39:50):
call.
To see how you guys, To starttaking to subs to making your
own dreams, realities, and, and,doing what seems impossible.
All right,
Anna (39:59):
we'll see you next time.
Bye.
Bye.
Hi, welcome to today's episode.
Today, we're going to talk aboutmaking films together.
And some of the things thatwe've learned.
As a married couple.
And as parents.
And just balancing all of thesepriorities and making films on
the same set at the same time.
So this is.
(00:42):
A story that's long in themaking and we wanted to review
or revisit this topic, which issomething we've definitely
talked about before.
but just, we wanted to sharesome of our own personal
experiences, I think, and thenkind of think about some.
Overarching principles thatwe've picked up along the way.
because I think the last time wetalked about this was, at least
a year ago, at least hittingthis directly.
(01:05):
And we've talked a lot about thebenefits of making films.
And we've talked a lot about howit's possible to make films with
families.
and a lot of people think thatthat's really, really difficult
or impossible.
In this industry.
And maybe it's an unsaidimpossibility, but I think it's
an that sits in a lot ofpeople's So we just wanted to
share our story.
It's something that we decided,I think upon getting married,
that we were just going to rightinto having kids.
(01:27):
And we were just going to rightinto making films, but.
We've quickly realized that washarder.
Then it seemed, and also.
We've also learned over thecourse of a few years.
That, it's possible.
And it's been quite the featureThere's the end of the second
act, dark night of the soul kindof stuff.
Right.
Where it's like, oh, they failedand they're not going to get it
(01:49):
there.
We've definitely had thosemoments right.
Where it's like, okay, This isthat we're never doing this
again.
This doesn't work it'simpossible.
And then we kind of, I don'tknow, gained some weight and
didn't see anyone.
Never spoke to people.
And then.
We shaved our beards.
It came out of hiding.
(02:09):
And save the world essentially.
that's, that's what happens inacts three.
third acts.
Shave
Anna (02:16):
our beer, Okay.
Kent (02:17):
Yeah.
what I mean?
They kind of have a anyway.
So, yeah.
Anna (02:24):
Well, So, this is an interesting topic.
It's definitely the question weget the most from other people
who are considering havingfamilies or who are interested
in the fact that we both areinvolved in film.
Eventually they always ask.
How do you do it?
How do you make films and alsohave kids Be married.
(02:46):
Which is really the questionthat we should've asked before
we tried to do it and didn'tthink to,
Kent (02:51):
but, but we couldn't have answered the question if we had
asked it over ourselves Andthat's I think kind of what
defines a dream.
You say I'm going to dosomething and someone says how
and you go, I have no idea.
Like, we don't have a plan.
We don't know how we're going todo it.
We're just going to kind ofthrow our bodies in its general
direction and hope that like, wedon't die.
It's like, We get a range forhelp, but then we'd taken over
(03:13):
the house for film.
And so.
There was like nowhere for themto go.
It was bad.
It was a logistical nightmare.
And, and that led to just allsorts of problems.
And so, I'm just going to tryand.
I will fail.
And then I'll try again.
And it's like exponentiallearning in that, in Well,
Anna (03:33):
yeah, and I think we went into it.
Trying failing.
Miserably and not trying againfor a while, and we won't get
too much into the details of thefailure, but we'll say that we
made our feature film together.
I was directing Kent was deepingand producing.
And we cast our kids in themovie.
(03:54):
So it really was a familyordeal.
And that was very difficult.
It was extremely hard on thefamily.
We've talked about it before.
After, so.
We haven't mentioned thisbefore, but afterwards we
basically said.
At first, it was, let's just notdo film because we were ready to
give up entirely.
And then.
(04:15):
Eventually it turned into, okay.
We'll still do film, but justnot at the same time and
definitely not with our kidsonset.
And maybe we'll just each do ourown separate projects until the
kids leave home.
We can take turns doing ourmovies
Kent (04:31):
and we can help each other on each other's projects.
Just not on set at the sametime, because it was the main
reason being is that it was sostressful.
We were trying to figure out howto take care of the kids.
Cause we didn't want to neglectWe inevitably were I think, one
of the things that we decidedwas.
Oh, like, I'll make the nextfilm.
Cause you directed this lastone, but we, I mean, we really.
(04:53):
It's really our film.
In many, in all ways almost,but.
I've really wanted to direct.
And so we thought, okay, so wethought it would be my turn to
direct.
And so I was going to prep aproject and I was going to prep
a project in the meantime tomake she'd do it.
After mine was done, she'd haveplenty of time to prep it and we
just wouldn't be on settogether.
And then something kind ofunexpectedly forced our hand to
(05:15):
reconsider that.
And it was somewhat recently,but we got hired to make a
project.
It was a commercial film.
And we've talked about this aswell on the podcast, but because
we do a lot of pre-productionand a lot of post-production.
We're not just like contractdirectors.
Hopping from set to set orcontract.
Filling the blank, DP, actor orwhatever.
(05:36):
Like we do some of those kindsof things where I'll on a set
and shoot it, or animal, on aset and act and in, or whatever.
But.
For the most part, if we'retaking something on together.
It's something we both reallywant to do.
And we're both like highlyinvolved in the project through
pre.
And through production andthrough post.
But that's rare ish.
(05:57):
Like we don't do them like everyweek.
And so what happened was weended up needing Anna to act in
a project.
Because, a change happened,someone dropped out last minute.
And we decided to try it andAna.
Hadn't been acting very much upto that point.
And we had sort of already swornoff doing stuff together on the
(06:19):
same set, but we just thought,okay, well for the same money,
we would've paid an actor.
We'll just get someone to helpwatch our It
Anna (06:26):
wasn't a feature film.
It's just a little commercial.
It didn't seem like a big deal.
And honestly, What we weretrying before that.
Could work for a lot of people.
If you are doing stuff where youare on set, most of the time.
Like we said pre and postproduction are flexible.
So we're able to just, weusually switch off days.
I'm working and the other personwatches the kids and we just,
(06:47):
that works for us.
We've also switched off likehalf days.
Things like that.
And then when you're onproduction, just, one person's
at home taking care of the kidsin the family, and one person is
out working.
That's usually what we do.
And that can work great for alot of people that could work
just fine.
but if there are projects youwant to work on together, then
they become sort of not anoption or not an option until
(07:10):
later.
And so.
Kent said this happened and, andthey needed an actor.
last minute.
To fill in and we've thoughtit's just a small project, so
let's, let's get a babysitter.
Let's try it out.
It's just, one thing and then wedon't have to do it again.
but it ended up being.
Really healing and a really goodexperience.
(07:32):
And we'll tell you
Kent (07:32):
why.
Yeah.
And so ultimately I think one oftheir main reasons that it was
so enjoyable was, logisticallyit was a more prepared project
than the feature which we rightinto.
I think that's probably thebiggest thing.
And we've talked about that indetail, Since we were more
prepared logistically, I thinkit allowed us to have like a lot
of conversations about thecharacter and get prepared.
Anna was really prepared andthen we showed up and we shot
(07:54):
this thing and there was no likememorization or dialogue or
anything.
It was just, it was like asilent film almost with a
commercial with narration overAnd so that just let us, I don't
know, it was kind of relaxed andfun.
And we shot over several days.
mostly just weekends.
And so, it was just like acouple of days.
Or it was really one day a weekfor a few weeks.
(08:14):
And the kids basically got likea big, long data.
Have a good time with their,friends and, cause that's, we
had someone who had similar agedkids.
Watch the kids and that workedout super good.
And so.
We took that as like a proof ofconcept afterwards.
And.
The other big thing I think wasthat.
(08:37):
There can be marital stress and,everyone has different
personalities and they're indifferent places.
Maritally.
If they can collaborate likethis.
And for a lot of our listenersthat just doesn't apply.
Like most of us don't havespouses that are in film with
us.
But some of us do.
And I think that some people askus, like, how do you do that?
How do you both be married andwork together?
Anna (08:56):
We've heard tons of people say we would kill each other.
If we were working together allday.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Kent (09:05):
I well, and what's funny is we kind of judge people for
saying that.
And then I think we did findourselves in a position where
maybe that was.
Not to that point, obviously,but like, we were not feeling
great.
We were, and I don't really feellike it was like a huge marital
thing, but it was so hard thatlike, stress is stress and that
spills over into other parts ofour lives.
We know that like, if we'restressed at work, sometimes we
(09:27):
bring it home.
Right.
And so sometimes if we'restressed at home, sometimes we
bring it to work and.
And not always, but that canhappen.
And I think that for, for us, Ithink the stress overall was
just so overwhelming.
That we thought we would not beable to work together.
And that's just at least for thesake of dividing and conquering,
(09:48):
Just so that it was just reducedoverall life stress.
And on this one, it was actuallylike a reversal.
It was like, it was like achange.
what is it a.
Who was it?
Who said a change is as good as
Anna (10:00):
arrest?
Yeah, that was Tilton hall.
My friend has his dad would saythat cause they would build
fences together.
And so it's like a reallyrepetitive motion you do over
and over And every once in awhile they'd switched the jobs
they were doing, which kind oflet them use a different arm.
And his dad would say, Hey,change is as good as arrest,
(10:20):
which I love because they'restill working, but changing
muscles, kind of changing therhythm.
Yeah.
It's really nice.
Kent (10:29):
Well, and it did nothing bad for our family, I think, to,
delegate the watching of thekids for a day a week.
And I think.
Anna (10:36):
There was a play date.
Well, there's a
Kent (10:37):
lot of drama, I think mentally that happens with a lot
of parents too.
I think for this, like, It'slike, oh, how much childcare
should I or, or can I.
Purchase, I guess, I don't know,like you're, you're, you're
getting help to watch your kidsand some, you can't delegate
that job completely.
No one else can be a parent toyour child.
And, yet, like, I think thatit's up to each of us to decide
(10:57):
how much help we're going tosolicit in that way.
And I'm not here to prescribewhat that number is, but it was
something we felt good aboutonce a week for a few weeks.
That felt fine.
And, yeah, the kids felt great.
They loved it.
It was a new environment forthem.
And obviously the kid'stemperament and development
stage might have a lot to dowith, if that's an option for
(11:18):
you.
or if you think that that's agood idea or not, that's
obviously a parental decision.
And, so for us maritally as wellas that changes as good as
arrest.
I think that was a rest for ourkids.
I think they were happy to breakup the routine a little bit,
spend time with new people in anew place.
And for us, it was spending timewith each other, working in a
way that we don't usually getAnd, Also in a new environment.
(11:39):
And so in that way, I think itwas actually really good for the
family.
I think we just, we came at lifewith like a new energy.
Looking forward to something.
And also looking forward tobeing back together, It was, it
was good.
And, learned a lot of lessonsthrough it.
Yeah,
Anna (11:54):
I'd love to kind of break down the main things that we
felt like worked this timearound, or that didn't work the
first time around, just so thatyou guys, if you are attempting
this or trying to find thisbalance, get some ideas of.
What worked for us or whatdidn't.
So Ken, I'm curious if you havelike specific things that you
would say.
(12:15):
Made it different this time thanthe time before.
Kent (12:18):
Well, Before I like to talk about that, but I'll also
mentioned that we've done itagain since the project that
we've referenced, where youacted in it.
We did another project where youdirected it.
It was a commercial project andID peed it.
And then did most of the work inposts that you directed me
through And, that project wasalso a really good experience.
We did a similar approach,except it wasn't, it didn't
(12:41):
necessitate as much shooting.
So it was really just a two dayshoot, but we had to travel.
So it was about four days thatwe left and we had to get, once
again, we had to find a placefor the kids to We ended up
doing the exact same arrangementas before.
And it was great.
They looked forward to it forweeks.
They loved it and we came backand it was a lot of fun.
And, for the most part, Ithought that was good, but I
(13:01):
learned different things on thatshoot than on this one.
And I think that taking both ofthose together to answer your
question, I learned, It soundssilly, but I think when both of
us show up as prepared to dowhatever our role is, whether
you were acting or directing orwhether I was directing or
deeping Whatever I'm coming asprepared as possible.
I think reduced a lot of S a lotof stress.
(13:23):
And so the experience reallypositive.
So the first one was fiction.
You were very prepared, I think,as an actress, especially given
your short notice, it was liketwo days before.
You jumped onto Into thatposition.
And I had really prepared thatparticular one, but it was
fiction.
It was like a fiction narrativecommercial.
(13:43):
And so we'll post it in the shownotes.
If you.
Yeah, we could.
but it was the point is, is thatit was able to be shortlisted.
We could shortlist it veryspecifically.
We storyboarded it, we Tekscouted, we location scouted.
Whereas this one was.
It was, a remote shoot, notremote, but like out of it was
out of state.
We had to travel And it was alive event for corporate.
(14:06):
client.
And that's very different,right?
We, we could shortlist a littlebit, but we didn't really know
what the location looked like.
There was a limit as toequipment we could bring with us
versus rent.
And with rental equipment alwayscomes like last minute, like
figuring stuff out.
So this stuff adds to like,They're being a little less
ability to prepare.
(14:26):
And so I thought that was aslightly more stressful shoot
for me.
But, I mean, that goes for anyshoot.
Right.
But it especially matters.
I think if we're married, Thatwe're highly prepared and that
we're both preparing for therole, because if we're onset and
things don't feel prepared andwe're getting stressed Well with
(14:46):
like a professionalcollaborator, it's really easy
to be like, okay, I need to bepatient with this person so they
can keep performing.
But when it's your spouse, thatfamiliarity sometimes breeds
contempt.
Right?
And so we are sometimes not asprofessional with each other.
So I think that.
that preparation, I think isjust, it's always been kind of
one in my mind, since we've hadthese experiences.
Anna (15:06):
Yeah, definitely.
I think preparation is huge.
And on that same note to adegree, I feel like it's
important to realize You don'twant to wear too many hats or
play too many roles andparenting is a role.
And even being a spouse is arole that you play and.
(15:26):
I didn't think of it that way.
When we made our feature Butwhen we were on set.
Those kids needed.
Our kids.
Needed to help them kids, kidsthat we found.
needed help to get into their toget their hair done, to learn
their lines, to learn what theyneeded to do.
And in between the times that weneeded them, while they're on
(15:47):
set, they need someone watchingthem and making sure they're
not.
Running off or getting intothings or being loud, or, and we
thought that what they'regetting fed.
Kent (15:56):
Yeah, well, we thought that we'd prepared for that.
We we'd we'd brought someone onjust to help watch the kids, but
they were going to take the kidsoff set and kind of help them
have like a life, like,especially when they weren't
needed.
But there was no one on set totake care of the kids between
takes.
It seems obvious, but that sincethere were multiple kids, that
was multiple people that wouldhave been needed to do that
(16:19):
because you don't want all thekids on set.
Especially since the youngest atthe time was like one and a
half.
Way too young to be.
On a set.
Like they can't be quiet.
Right.
And, unless they're in thescene, then it's like put them
in there.
So when they're not being used,they need to be a way like
completely offset.
Anna (16:37):
So you need someone to take care of each child or each
location.
someone on set with kids,someone offsite with the kids.
But, but I guess that was.
Part of the point The role of,for example, hosting, we, we
filmed in our own house, therole of.
Making meals for kids, the roleof, Getting them ready for their
(17:00):
part.
All of those things are rolesand, And so if you aren't going
to assign that job to someone,you need to make sure you're not
giving yourself too many jobs.
And even as a married couple, wehave to be able to say like,
okay, Sometimes I step in asyour spouse is like a support
and a friend, and we can talkthrough things if you're
stressed and then sometimes weneed to be professional and get
(17:22):
a job done.
And we need to know when to kindof step in and out of those
roles.
And I think.
Stepping into a professionalrole.
Was easier to do on some ofthese other sets.
we had other people around us.
Who were all professionalcollaborators.
And I think that helped itdoesn't feel so much like.
Just us.
(17:43):
Trying to make a thing happen.
there were a few differentreasons why.
It was easier to beprofessional, but I think that
also made a difference.
Kent (17:50):
Yeah.
Well, and I think that like,Sometimes if life is getting so
stressful or the movie's gettingso stressful, it's like the mom
part of you or the wife part ofyou or the dad part of me or the
husband.
Pardon I was so stressed thatit's like, I needed you to be a
spouse or vice versa.
And it's like, we almostcouldn't let each other step
into the professional role, likeenough to get the job done.
(18:12):
I think which added like, Aburden and a stress to the
project, whereas like, For me,there's a lot of mental drama
around, delegating anythingregarding my kids.
And so like, I was kind ofalluding to that before, but
like, I don't like delegatingalmost anything.
So we homeschool.
So that's just one thing thatlike, most people delegate.
And I think that's fine.
(18:32):
I like.
I'm really grateful for publicschools existing in our society.
but I just, for some reason,I've always felt like I wanted
to.
Play a very central role inthat.
And, and in the education of mychildren
Anna (18:44):
specifically, Let us be more flexible.
It's something
Kent (18:47):
that helps as filmmakers.
It has actually been a reallybig blessing.
Anna (18:51):
We can travel.
We can take days off whenever weneed to.
So that's been strategic for usas well.
Kent (18:58):
but, even, still it's also a burden in some ways,
obviously.
And so,
Anna (19:02):
yeah, it's definitely time commitment, but it also, in some
ways helps me feel like.
Almost more justified in thetimes when we do.
Hire out caretaking because Iget to spend so much time with
my kids so much more than theaverage parent.
That it feels balanced to
Kent (19:18):
me.
And I spend much more time thanthe average dad, because we
swapped days.
So these are all systems thatwe've developed for ourselves
and our families.
But, my point is, is that justmentally, I think there's a
block there where it's very hardfor me to, like you said,
justifying my own mind.
Like none.
And I feel like a bad dad.
And, once again, I mean, I'veseen people who they do, they do
(19:40):
childcare daily.
With kids younger than ours.
And you know, what, they'remaking it work in a way that
they seem to have a very strongrelationship with these young
children as parents.
And I don't know how they do it,but there.
That's because that's theirsystem.
That's their life.
That's there.
Relationships.
And I think there are somepeople can make that work.
(20:02):
And I think I've had to openthat up in my own mind to accept
that.
but I also, I guess my pointhere is.
What I really realized on afeature film is that it's way
more responsible.
To delegate the care of thosechildren than to try and bring
them with me everywhere when Iam absolutely not capable of
(20:22):
giving them the attention andthe love that they need.
Because set was not a goodparenting environment.
It was not a good childenvironment.
It was not a good place.
For our kids at the time.
And it might've been, if there'dbeen more people helping, if
there had been, I don't know,just more preparation for that
(20:43):
to occur, but we just We justdidn't know what we didn't know
and we didn't account for all ofthose things.
And so I just have learned, I'velearned that, There's really a
time and a place for me to showup as the best parent that I can
be.
And when I need to provide, Ican.
Make sure that.
My children are taken care of.
in a way that's best for thatsituation.
(21:04):
And I think giving myself thatlatitude and kind of waking up
to that, like, And getting ridof the black and white sort of.
I don't judgment.
Like self judgment around.
That particular issue has been achallenge for me, but I think
it's been good because.
I've definitely felt betterabout the experience my children
are having when I've not beenwith them.
(21:25):
I'm working.
And they're having a great time.
With friends and getting theeducation they need while I'm
gone.
Then when I was like trying topull them in onset.
Yeah, no homeschool happened forweeks while we were working on
that feature.
Nothing happen.
It was no education, not a lotof, Good examples from mom and
dad, we were too stressed andnot at our best.
(21:47):
And so, yeah.
Anna (21:49):
I think this is definitely, something that women
face probably more often thanmen.
Kent (21:55):
Yeah, and I think I face it more than most men because of
my central Because I have somuch more time with them on like
a daily, like morning throughafternoon basis.
Yeah, every other day, thanmost.
Than most dads.
And there's a lot ofstay-at-home dads now and
Anna (22:13):
well, and there are a lot of other things too, I've
thought about how pregnancylike.
Can completely take over yourlife in a way where, when I'm
first pregnant, I get very sickand it's really hard for me to,
to get any good work donebecause I'm so nauseated.
but.
Or even acting, there's a lot ofacting roles that I can't do if
(22:34):
I'm pregnant and, after baby'sborn her, name's Gallica DOE.
It can happen.
But it's rare and it's kind oftricky to navigate.
So.
Even after having a newbornbaby, those newborn babies are
very dependent on shut thingsdown for awhile on mom, And
I've.
Done production still where I'vetraveled and I'm pause, I'm
(22:56):
pumping milk to feed the babiesand I get back and it's a tricky
thing.
To balance it can be done, but,add that on top of.
The usual Mom guilt or feelinglike.
You should be there.
I think it's, it's really goodto realize At least for me, this
helps.
I'm not always the best personto watch my kids.
(23:19):
And I think it's my job to makesure that they are taking care
of their needs are met.
They're in good hands of peopleI trust and completely believe
But it's not always me and I'mnot always better than someone
else.
And it's like, I've been humbledenough times to think who am I
to say that I'm a better parentor that I will do a better job?
Taking care of this child, justbecause I gave birth to this
(23:41):
child.
And in some ways I am, because Iknow them and I love them deeper
than most people,
Kent (23:47):
I think in the longterm, like.
In the.
There's a part of us, right.
As parents, that, we are thebest.
Person or a rather.
I don't know, it's hard to, it'shard to define there's
exceptions to all of thesethings, right.
I mean, we just did foster careand we know that there's some
times.
Hard situations where these.
(24:09):
Relationships.
As important as they are.
Aren't the safest place forchildren.
And that's not, I think theplace where most of us are at,
right.
And if.
Most of us.
if there's something happeningwith like drug addiction or if
the home just isn't safe orthere's abuse, then.
That can sometimes necessitatea, but even in those
(24:30):
circumstances, no matter whatsomething we've learned through
the foster system is that.
No matter how bad it is or howdangerous and environment it is
for child.
No matter how good or safe thenew environment is for child.
Particularly child in the fostercare system.
They're going to want to go backto Birth parents, like they want
(24:50):
to go back and there's traumainvolved with that separation.
And so part of me does say, Yes,we want to be the best parents
we can because we are the bestpeople to take care of those
children.
But then there are somecircumstances where we're not,
I'm not disagreeing I just thinkthat it's our job to judge when
those moments are, it's a
Anna (25:08):
complex issue and it is our responsibility by bringing
the children into the world andaccepting, that responsibility
to take care of them, to makesure We're giving them the best
care that they can, whetherthat's like I'm actually giving
the care myself or I'm hiringsomeone else to But.
I definitely feel like.
Me when I'm onset anddistracted.
(25:29):
Is not going to be a better momthan someone who I'm paying.
Who wants to do this?
Who loves watching kids?
You know, there's great peopleout there who can help out.
And it takes a village.
It really does to, raise achild.
Right.
And I think it's been reallyhealthy for our kids too.
Have that experience of seeingsomeone else's home and.
(25:52):
Getting to have a play date, butagain, it's just one day a week
and it's not like we come homeand wow.
You've grown up and I haven'tseen you forever.
It's like, Oh, how was your playdate?
Did you have a fun day and hangout all week and then we'll do
another one.
And I mean, I didn't make.
You mean for this episode to beso much about childcare?
(26:13):
And childcare, but it definitelyis a topic that Thoughtful
about.
For
Kent (26:17):
us, it was huge.
And it had a huge effect on usworking on set together.
I mean, it was massive.
And that's something we've justhad to figure out and.
Anna (26:24):
even the preparation you were talking about, I think is
huge.
Preparing someone to watch yourchildren.
Is a lot of work too, becausechildren have Yeah, they have
their schedule.
They have when they need to napand when they go to bed and what
the discipline methods are andwhat they eat and all of those
things have to be prepared andcommunicated and figured out in
(26:48):
advance.
And if they aren't.
It's very hard to step out ofthat role.
And focus on something else,because even on our feature
film, that was kind ofdisastrous when I wasn't.
On set.
I was still texting.
the caretaker.
And trying to figure out.
Where things were, where theirclothes are, what they like to
(27:10):
eat, what to do about, somethingthat they were running into.
And that was also something thatI had not prepared.
And this next time around, I wasvery carefully.
Working together with thecaretakers.
To prepare.
schedule and the routine andmake sure she had all the
supplies she needed and was goodto go.
So.
house to herself.
Kent (27:31):
no, where we were not shooting.
Anna (27:34):
And very essential.
And so I think that preparation.
For that role was also
Kent (27:39):
vital.
So I think what's interestingis, I want to bring up something
that Jody Moore, who is Anna'slife coach.
Who's really amazing.
And she's also becoming asbusiness coach.
She said something in a liveevent that we attended recently.
And she said, I'm talking aboutdreams and how they're different
from goals.
Is that a dream is somethingthat's basically impossible.
(28:01):
And when we really decide tohold onto a dream.
it needs to sound crazy.
It usually makes us very scared.
And when we start towards it, Wehave to be extremely bad at it.
Like we don't even know what todo.
And if we do know what to do, weknow that we don't know how to
do it, And so she talked aboutto a lot of people who were
(28:23):
starting businesses who mightneed to learn how to do a
webinar.
And she basically said, Do.
A webinar, how you learn how todo webinars, make a bad webinar.
And do 25 bad webinars.
And the woman said, well,webinars harder than a podcast.
Cause you have to wear makeup.
And she said, Do I do 25 badwebinars and then, and then put
(28:47):
lip gloss on or something.
It's.
It's like on the 26th.
And so I just it's this like, Weget good at things by being bad
at them.
And Alexander mackendrick saidthe same thing about filmmaking.
He, he said, one of the biggestthings that students struggle
with is that they're just notdoing a high enough volume of
work and they need to get usedto doing the work so that once
(29:09):
the work can become secondnature.
Then they can.
Become creatively minded on.
These projects, And, and so forus, I think the dream was okay,
we're going to be married.
We're going to have kids.
We're actually going to be likea happy family and we're going
to make movies together.
And we just didn't even, part ofit was just, we were Mr.
(29:29):
Burns too ignorant, stubborn.
S dreamy eyed.
I don't know what it was, but wewere just like, of course
that'll work out.
Great.
And you're going to be afull-time mom.
And you're going to work andmake movies with me.
I don't understand.
And we're going to homeschool.
it was like, it didn't make anysense, like all this stuff, and
yet we are kind of doing it.
You basically, we've just walkedinto it and we were bad at it
(29:51):
for several years.
And I think after nearly eightyears of marriage in the last
two years, we've made.
Huge strides towards figuring itout.
And.
we're not perfect at it, butwe're getting a lot better at
it.
And I think we're just learninghow to like the work is not.
The problem as much anymore.
(30:13):
And the family, Leo logisticsare not the problem.
It's just now we're able toshift our mind towards the
creative and, I think it'ssomething we just, we can accept
that without drama.
We can just say, yeah, like.
Is this going to take quite anumber of years to figure out,
and it might be hard and wemight make some big mistakes.
We may have to make a lot ofapologies.
Ah, to each other and to ourkids and to the rest of the crew
(30:36):
and to other people and, and,that's okay.
Like, I don't know.
I'm starting to really acceptthe fact that that learning
process costs what it costs.
And.
We didn't know what we didn'tknow.
And we did know what we didn'tknow in some cases, and we just
had to learn and we had to bebad at it.
And boy, were we bad at it?
And yet I think we're creatingsomething, not just the movie.
(30:57):
Although I do think the movie isreally great.
It's coming together in a waythat I'm excited about, the one
that was really hard.
But when I say we're makingsomething, I'm referring to the
family and the life.
Of being married filmmakers thatactually can work together on
projects, not every singleproject, but.
when it's, when it makes sense,we work together and it's really
(31:18):
exciting and fun.
And I think, especially with thefeatures, we're going to keep
working together.
and I, and that's starting tobecome almost obvious.
Logistically like.
listening to this podcast, wehaven't shared anything.
That's like super mind blowingsecrets or anything.
It's just stuff we didn't know.
It's just, if we didn't think tothink And that's how it'll be
for you.
It'll be a mystery.
It'll be a big, scary dream.
(31:39):
And then once you figure it out,you're gonna look back and go,
well, that's all it was.
We just had to like, get ababysitter, I guess.
Anna (31:45):
Think And so, yeah.
It's that simplicity on theother side of complexity, where
things all seem simple until youtry to do them.
And then it gets complex.
And then through all thatcomplexity, if you can stick
with it through the complexityand the chaos long enough, it
becomes simple again.
And you find A way that worksfor you.
(32:07):
And we've shared some of thethings that have worked for us.
But you'll have to find whatworks for you and for your
family.
And it, it might be totallydifferent, but just believing
that it is possible and movingthrough, being bad at it.
And staying with it long enough.
I think that's It will, post inthe show notes was such a great
experience for us was because ithelped us realize that it was
(32:29):
possible.
And.
that we were actually livingsomething we dreamed of.
Long ago and didn't think waspossible and thought we failed
at it was kind of comingtogether and starting to And so,
our.
Production company's calledinvisible mansion.
And there's lots of things that,that means, but for me, it also
(32:50):
one thing that it means is.
Is your inner life, you liveinside of your life and inside
of your experience of your life.
And no one sees that except foryou.
And.
in a Hollywood studio lot, theremight be like fronts where
there's a whole street.
If you've ever gone in toward.
Where does that universalstudios or whatever they take
(33:12):
you out.
And there's a whole street ofstorefronts, but they're all
false.
Like, it looks very real, butthen behind it, it's just a
wall.
There's nothing back there.
And a lot of people, I think inour industry, May have that.
You may be living that where youfeel like it looks good to
everyone on the outside, but I'mthe one inside of it.
(33:33):
Living it and I feel empty and Ifeel like I'm not doing all the
things I want And it looks good,but isn't.
And then some of you might belike, we were trying to build
this mansion, this.
All of these things.
We wanted family and film andworking together and being
married and having kids andhomeschooling and all of these
(33:53):
things.
We're laying this foundation.
And it's huge and it takes toinclude all the walls we're
going around in circles, layingbricks.
And not seeing much progress andit looks bad, from the outside,
it doesn't look impressive andit's going to rain and you're
going to get wet and it's gonnafeel Man.
I wish I wish I could havesomething that looked as nice as
(34:16):
whatever else just threw upreally quickly.
And, and yet you get to a pointwhere you've built something
really sturdy and it's includesand has a room for everything
that you want to be part of yourAnd I think it was just one of
those moments where if you'veever built a house, do you like
kind of walk in?
(34:36):
You're like, wow, this isactually like starting to like
to get like a house, like.
I can't really live in it yet.
It's not the dream But I'mseeing.
I'm seeing it.
Be realized in front of my eyes.
Yeah.
Kent (34:48):
So yeah, I can see without as much stretch of the
imagination.
Is that it's getting real.
Yeah.
And, and that's something thatlike, we're just delaying for
ourselves by putting up falsefacades.
We are.
Those a false facade gets thejob done for as long as it gets
the job done.
But behind it.
(35:08):
Things start falling apart.
And I think that's why.
In this in many otherindustries, especially in
Hollywood where the expectationis like, Hot from set to set
work 14 hour days.
And.
I mean, it's getting I thinkthere, there are some systemic
changes that need to behappening in our industry, but.
Even if those system changesnever happen.
(35:29):
What Anna and I truly believe isthat we can make.
Personal and familial changes.
That make it possible for us todo the things that we dream of
without waiting on the world tochange as John Mayer.
Unwisely suggests that we all doso.
I liked John Maris music.
So, sorry.
She was a great musician.
And, and so.
(35:51):
That's encouraging for me.
And I hope it's encouraging forothers who might have some
aspect of their dream.
Whether it's similar to ours orcompletely different.
Things especially feelimpossible when it feels like no
one else in the world is doingit the way you want to do it.
And we definitely felt that waythinking.
Yeah, we're going to have kidsright away and we're going to
get married young, and we'regonna go straight into film.
(36:12):
We're going to both be in filmand we're going to homeschool
and yada, yada, yada.
Et cetera, et cetera.
It's like, it just was like thispicture that it was like,
everyone goes, that's not howpeople do it.
Right.
It's like, it just feels sodifferent.
And your picture is going tofeel that way.
I mean, if you really being trueto yourself and you're, and
you're putting the dreamtogether, It's going to be
unique in some way.
It's going to go.
No one else.
I've never seen Quite like this,but that's kind of exciting.
(36:34):
You can pave that way.
for other people and just.
Be brave enough to be differentand, and be okay with being
really bad at it.
And then you'll figure it out.
It'll come together with time.
So.
Yeah.
Anna (36:48):
Yeah.
I, one other thing that I wouldjust throw in there is I think
it's important to not wait.
To try to do all the things tomove forward with all of
Kent (36:58):
the things I think it's important to, to start as early
Anna (37:02):
Early as you can, because if you're laying a foundation.
You want to lay it all the wayaround all of the things that
you want to have in your house,right?
You don't want to just.
Lay the foundation in one areaand build that one area.
That's the false facade we weretalking about.
And I think I see a lot ofpeople.
Approaching balance.
(37:22):
Like, I'm just gonna lean reallyhard into the career and then
I'm going to lean completelyinto family.
And then I'm going to go backinto the career and it's like
this.
Balancing act where you'reswitching from one end of the
scale to the other and trying togive yourself whiplash.
Yeah, like call that balancebalance is not one side slamming
to the ground while the otherone shoots up.
(37:42):
And then the other side slammingto the ground while the other
one shoots up.
Balances, both maintaining bothat the same time.
And so whatever those dreams arefor you, I think make sure that
you're working towards them.
And all of them, even if it'sjust 10 minutes a day, even if
it's just.
Once a week, whatever it is.
And on that note, we have, anoffer.
(38:05):
Now we offer three freeGreenlight calls every week
within our program, which.
it's just to add onto thatchecklist.
We feel like a lot of peopledownload the checklist, love the
checklist.
And if you're not Do anything on
Kent (38:18):
it?
Yeah.
And if you're not familiar withthe free checklist, it's a make
your first feature filmchecklist that goes through.
All the way from ideation anddevelopment, all the way through
distribution and sales.
every single, every single stepthat we can think of in that
filmmaking process, and that'sfree.
And if you don't already havethat, then we can put that in
the show That's
Anna (38:39):
always in the show notes.
So you can download that.
if you don't have it already andif you do.
But you haven't been using itvery regularly.
we highly encourage you to takeadvantage of the Greenlight
call.
And I think some people waitbecause they think, I don't
know, like maybe once I.
Once I've written the script,then I'm ready to move forward
and do this Greenlight callwhere we'll help you make a
(38:59):
plan.
It doesn't really make yourfeature film.
Cause
Kent (39:01):
we have resources on there to help you like push that
script forward.
Anna (39:05):
We have resources that will help you through all the
stages.
So wherever you're at, even ifit's just, I'm kind of thinking
about this idea.
Definitely take advantage ofthat.
It's a way that we like to giveback is opening up those three
calls a week.
so jump on and grab them beforethey fill up.
And.
we'd love to help you getstarted on making this dream a
(39:25):
reality.
And something that is becomingreal for you in your life.
Kent (39:29):
Absolutely.
Well, we hope you really enjoyedthis episode.
We've really enjoyed.
recording it and talking aboutit.
Thanks Santa.
For.
Push me around in my brain withsome good questions and such.
And so, yeah, it's always goodto remember what we've learned
and, we hope that it's beenhelpful and we are excited to
see as you guys take thechecklist and the Greenlight
(39:50):
call.
To see how you guys, To starttaking to subs to making your
own dreams, realities, and, and,doing what seems impossible.
All right,
Anna (39:59):
we'll see you next time.
Bye.
Bye.
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