Ep. 91 - Personal and Practical Storytelling with Feature Film Director Kiel Thorlton

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Episode Transcript

Anna (00:25):
All right.
Welcome to the podcast.
We have Kyle and Adam Bova isback on.
Kyle, what's your last name?
I should

Kiel (00:32):
know your last name.
It's Orton.
So it's Irish like Tarleton.
It's Oh, okay.

Anna (00:38):
Oh, okay.
I'm not gonna try and say thatand mess it up, but

Adam (00:42):
Th Thor.

Kent (00:42):
Thorton.

Kiel (00:43):
Thorton.
Yeah.
There you go.
Thorton.
You got it.
All right.

Anna (00:48):
Right.
And he is director of a placecalled Home.
And we've got Adam Bova back on.
He has been on the podcastbefore talking about the film,
and now I believe it's availablein theaters and or streaming.
And, I mean, let us know how wecan watch it.
We're gonna, we're gonna kind oftouch base again.

Adam (01:07):
Yeah, it's available now on pretty much every single
streaming platform exceptNetflix.
cuz it is a rental at themoment.
3 99.

Kiel (01:17):
Yeah, it depends on the platform, but it's rental
usually.

Adam (01:21):
so you can see it on Amazon, apple tv, voodoo, I know
I'm missing like a half

Kiel (01:28):
dozen.
A lot of satellite things areavailable too, and if you, if
you're like me and actually likephysical hard copies, you can
buy DVDs of it too.
What's a, yeah, Walmart Best Buyand Barnes and Noble I think are
the three.
I'm a huge,

Kent (01:40):
I'm a huge believer in proponent of physical media.
Yeah.
I still think it looks betterthan streaming.
Yes, I think it sounds betterthan streaming.
I don't know what happens tosound.
No matter how good yourinternet.
I love Blu-Rays.
I like Criterion Collectionmovies.
Yes.
I, I like all that stuff.

Kiel (01:57):
So, and then there're conversation pieces on a
bookshelf when people come over.
It's like looking at books,right?
You get to know people.
Yeah, that's true.
I'm not

Kent (02:03):
like, can you turn on your subscriptions and

Kiel (02:05):
can I look at your watch history, comedy?

Anna (02:13):
No, that's good.
I actually watched the filmtoday.
and I really loved it.
It was great.
So, oh, thanks.
You guys have a lot to be proudof.
well,
thank

Adam (02:22):
you.
At work, did you cry?
I got really

Anna (02:26):
close.
I did get emotional.
I was taking care of my ownbabies while I watched it some
of the time, so that Oh, yeah.
Added to the experience,

Kiel (02:33):
Oh, I bet.
Yeah.
We, we had, I mean I've had abunch of people that have told
me like, oh my gosh, I didn'texpect it to be whatever.
But, the baby in the film is nowlike a toddler.
She's three now, and her mom hadnot had a chance to see the
movie, so she sat down andwatched the movie and at some
point throughout the movie, thethree-year-old woke up and it

(02:54):
was like this really surrealexperience of like seeing her
baby in this movie and then herbaby in real life now being
three, which was really cool.
Wow.
That is cool.

Kent (03:04):
We were just working on the edit of our film and our
three-year-old was sitting onher on Anna's lap and was like,
oh, that's, That's me, but thebaby.
But the, but the baby me, like,it was like this weird like self
realization and everything.
So yeah, honestly, like I was,I've been reviewing our edit as
we're locking in and just thislast couple days and then I was

(03:26):
watching your guys' film and Iwas like, oh, this is about as
much like intense domestic dramaas I can take in one day.
Like, I don't know if I cankeep, like, cuz it got real
intense and I was like, ah,shoot.
Like I'm not, I don't know if Ican handle this right now.

Kiel (03:40):
very similar.
You can't watch them every day.
You gotta, you gotta yourself.

Kent (03:45):
Yeah, no, it's, but they leave you feeling more whole,
you know, there's, there's a,there's a difference between
wholesomeness and sort ofsterileness and Yeah.
And this, I, I felt like thiswas a film that actually wanted
to, do something for someone, todo something for the audience.
It's actually serving them in away that I think sometimes our
films are like, giving us whatwe want, but not actually doing

(04:07):
anything good for us.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So, no,

Kiel (04:11):
that's something from pretty early on, from pretty
early on we talked about, like,we hoped that at, by the end of
it, it at least made you go andhug your family maybe a second
time.
Right?
Right.
On those like, like if you,especially you have kids and
you're putting'em to bed, or youhave a significant other and
you, you know, do the good nightor whatever.
You're like, you know what, I'mgonna take the extra second and
do the extra hug just in case,because you know, unfortunately

(04:33):
life is fleeting.
You never know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anna (04:37):
So, Kyle, you wrote this as well as directed it.
Yeah.
Where did this story come from?
Is this based in any personalexperiences or is this.
what, what book did

Kiel (04:46):
you write it?
Well, kind of, it was reallymacab while I was writing it So
I started writing it while I wasstill, in film school and I was
working full-time, so I waswriting in the evenings and I
started writing it reallyshortly after my second daughter
was born.
Mm-hmm.
And so it became really macabbecause a lot of times, I'm sure
you guys have experienced thistoo, people will say, oh, well

(05:07):
write what you know.
And I think as filmmakerssometimes we take that really
like to the letter and just go,oh, my mo my life is a movie
then and I'll just write mylife.
And that's not always the case.
Right.
So I wanted to incorporate a fewthings that I felt like I really
did know intrinsically, which isgrowing up in the south and
being a dad, growing up in therural south and being a dad.

(05:28):
And so then I mixed thosetogether and my second daughter
had just been born when Iinitially got the idea.
And we played around a couplewith a few drafts.
There was a draft where themother made it and the baby
didn't.
For a little while, whichwould've been a very different
movie.
yeah.
And then only went through likemaybe draft one or two.
And then it was one night, itwas really late and I woke up,

(05:52):
it's gonna, this is gonna soundsuper cliche, but I really did.
I woke up out of a dream, it waslike two 30 in the morning.
I went downstairs and I'm justtyping away.
My wife wakes up, she's like,what are you doing?
Look, I have an idea.
I know where I need to go.
So, so some of it was absolutelymy experiences and Levi really
is, there's some of me in there.
There's some of, a lot of otherpeople I know, other people that
were in, the area that I grew upwith kind of melded together

(06:15):
into this person.
and then it just started reallyexploring that family dynamic.
I love exploring familydynamics.
Families are so unique, they'reso different all across the
world.
and I really like sitting downand just kind of picking those
apart and what would happen ifthis and this and this and this
and this.
And then the further that it gotin the process, the harder it.
it became to write, because itstarted to, I had to start

(06:36):
pulling from personalexperiences of, you know, what
would I do?
Like, how would I go to sleep atnight?
That's a really big theme of thefilm is going to sleep at night.
Well, if you're used to havingsomebody with you, what is that
like now?
Because it seems like something,something very simple, but it's
really not, it's reallycomplicated.
so it was a combination of a fewdifferent things mixed with a

(06:57):
few things that I felt like Ireally knew.
and then enough separation tosay it's a story, right?
So it's not, I'm not Levi by anymeans, right?
Because I don't think thatwould've worked well for my
mental health.
but it was, you know, separatedenough that I could look at it
and go, this is the storythrough these lenses that I'm
putting in front of them.

Kent (07:17):
Yeah, it's really interesting.
You know, Paul Schrader, whowrote Taxi Driver talks about
the metaphor.
Close enough that there's aspark.
If it's on top, if the, if thepositive and negative are on top
of each other, it won't work.
And if they're too far away fromeach other, but you've gotta get
it just close enough that he'slike, I basically just put my
angsty 20 something year old ina taxi in New York City and
like, just wrote the most justself-destructive version of

(07:41):
myself.
And then like, I was able tolike, walk away from it, you
know, and not live that out.
But, but not that that's exactlywhat you did, but, but that's a,
it's an interesting approach.
I wonder, so I feel like youwere, you were really going for
a sense of like authentic,portrayal of domesticity with
Levi and his daughters and his,some other, familial
relationships that were in themovie.

(08:03):
did you do any preparation interms of, because I've had an
experience of depicting in ashort.
It was really a homeworkassignment, someone losing their
spouse mm-hmm.
And, and I actually showed it ina class, and that professor had
lost his spouse to cancer, whichwas like, made me really
question my smartness in termsof selection of material.

(08:23):
And I was like, wow, that wasstupid.
But, but he, he immediatelycalled me out and just said
like, oh, the actor missed themark here.
Like, you, like that eitherwasn't the take or that wasn't
the right direction, or it justwasn't the right performance.
But like, someone who got thisnews in this moment would not
respond exactly in this way.
And I, and it, it was when hesaid that, that I was like, oh,

(08:44):
yeah, yeah.
He would know.
Yeah.
I mean, did you do any, liketalking to people or, or, or did
you just kind of take it fromlike, what would, what, what do
I think I would experience

Kiel (08:53):
or do?
No, I did, I did a lot ofconversations with people and
what I tried to do.
So there were, there were acouple key stories that I didn't
talk to these people directly,but that I knew about that went
through something similar.
And I found, you know, newsarticles, stuff where they had
maybe written about, I read acouple books on, you know,
losing loved ones, especiallylike losing spouses when you

(09:14):
have children and things likethat.
But I had a couple conversationswhich really interesting about
people who had lost spouses andwere removed from it, 20 years,
15 years removed on it.
And reflecting back on what thatscenario was, right?
What were the things that stuckout to them?
Because if you take somebodythat's really fresh in the
moment, they're gonna sayeverything is important, right?

(09:35):
You take somebody that's 20, 30years, they're like, this was
important and this was importantand this was important.
And after I had thoseconversations, one of the big
changes that was.
I think on draft three goinginto four, draft four was kind
of the first like blueprint oflike, this is it, right?
And then everything else pastthat was just tweaks.
But the big change going fromthree to four was to put the
space, the gap of time betweenthe loss of the mother and where

(09:59):
we pick back up in the story.
Cuz a few months have passed inbetween as soon as she's gone
and there.
And that was for a couplereasons, but the really biggest
one being that everyone'sexperience that I had talked to
or read about were wildlydifferent in those first like
two to three months.
And I didn't want somebody tolook at that, that maybe would
connect to this story and go,that's not true, because that's

(10:20):
not my experience.
And because it's so traumatic,they feel like that experience
is everyone's experience.
So by separating it a littlebit, that couple month
timeframe, once we pick back upin the story, we don't have to
deal with the messy fallout ofthe initial, right?
So we can kind of save some ofthat emotional stuff for later.
And then it can be Levi'sexperience.

(10:42):
And, and it's that recoveryexperience of just getting used
to life moving on.
Mm-hmm.
and although this wasn't duringthe film, I had talked to
somebody, we've now moved and welive in another state, and I,
while we've been there, there'sa person that we know that her
husband just all of a suddenpassed away.
and she has a teenager, apre-teen and like a 10 year old

(11:05):
somewhere in that realm.
Mm-hmm.
And, talked to her about themovie and she's like, I can't
watch it.
You know, da da da da da.
That's not, you know, cuz it'sreally fresh for her.
Mm-hmm.
But, I was explaining some ofthe things that kind of happened
in the movie.
She's like, we can talk aboutit, but like, I don't wanna
watch it.
And somebody brought it up toher like, you should see this
thing.
She was like, I don't wannawatch this thing Right, right.
You know, from her being reallyfresh, she's like, I think that

(11:27):
the things that you are nailingare accurate to what's happening
because she was living in thatmoment that like two to three
months after it has happened andit just, Understanding that life
moves on.
You gotta get back in thatrhythm.
You gotta figure out, yeah, youprobably dealt with some stuff,
but there's some things thatyou're not dealing with yet.
Right.
And they were approaching goinginto Thanksgiving.

(11:48):
Yeah.
And all of a sudden the firstThanksgiving where dad's not
there, what do you do?
How does, how do your kids reactto that?
How do you react to that?
so yeah, I did a good amount ofresearch.
I'm still very interested tohear what other people's
opinions on it are, because I'dlike to know, you know, how
close was it to the mark?
How far away was it?
What did you feel about it?
Especially somebody who hasdealt with something very

(12:09):
similar to this.
Yeah.

Anna (12:11):
Hmm.
I think you handled it reallywell.
I mean, not being someone who Ithinks evidence experienced it,
but think it's evident that youdid your homework.
Yeah.
I mean, I related to it.
I think even just the idea oflike raising young kids and
financial difficulties, Iactually think is something that
so many people experience andour film's about, that it's a
young family financial crisis,very similar.
So it's interesting to watchyours and I was like, wow, we

(12:34):
must have a lot in common withKyle But I think that that
experience is common.
It's, it's something a lot ofpeople can relate to, but we
don't see it portrayed.

Adam (12:45):
Well, I think it's also common to our generation and
yeah.
You know, we're starting to seethat generation of millennial
filmmakers, get into positionswhere we can make films about us
for us.
and, you're seeing, you know,just a whole new side I think,
of storytelling, just fromeverything that we've

(13:05):
experienced and we've had to gothrough.

Kent (13:07):
so that's, so I I have a really follow up question.
I don't know.
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.
So we had a professor of ours,I'll just say this openly, in
full of transparency.
one of our professors straightup said that she hated it.
Our movie not Oh really?
Yes.
and, that's just to your point,Adam, about this millennial like
depiction of, parenthood.
And I, and I just got this sensethat this was a woman who was

(13:29):
like, look, I've been throughdivorce.
I've been through like raisingkids alone.
I mean, she's been through somuch more than I, I think I have
so much respect for this woman'sopinion of our film because
she's watching this mom have ahard time and she's like, suck
it up, you know, And so herperspective is like this, like,
you know, about a generation upmm-hmm.

(13:50):
a more advanced, and she's beenthrough some stuff where it's
like, oh, it's hard to listen tokids cry.
You know, it's like, nah.
Yeah, okay.
Like, whatever.
And so I think that, I don'tknow if it's just a, what has
your guys' experience been withyour film in terms of audiences
that are, and, and your film is,I think, more deeply situated in

(14:11):
like, Kentucky, the South?
there's like a very rural, yeah.
Lifestyle in the sense thatlike, incomes are really low,
but so are, I mean, relativelyspeaking, they so are expenses,
like the numbers they even throwaround in the movie, I feel like
they talk numbers where it'slike, yeah, he doesn't live in
downtown Atlanta.
He's not living in New YorkCity.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's very evident thatit's like, oh yeah, like what's
your mortgage?
900 a month?

(14:31):
You know?
And, and, and it's like, it's,and that's, that's, it's just a
different way of life.
So I'm just wondering how doesit, how did this film resonate
with, if you guys have, youknow, been privy?
with older audiences.

Kiel (14:45):
Well, I did hear back from some of'em, it's funny that you
say 900 a month because when wefilm this, you know, inflation
has happened.
Right.
It's, it's continuing to happen.
That 900 a month is definitelynot none hundred a month
anymore.
Right.
If we filmed,

Adam (14:58):
just to remind, just to remind your audience, we did
film this in 2019 before thepandemic, before the housing
just like blew up all over theplace.
That wasn't even a blip on ourradar at that point,

Kent (15:11):
so Yeah.
Right.
It's become people's realityeven more though, even though
the number times sounds silly.

Kiel (15:16):
Yeah, and, and we've had some other people that have
shared stuff.
You know about the financialdifficulty that feels like it's
in this film because it's somuch more evident and in our
society now that it's mm-hmm.
everything is more expensive.
I'm raising kids, let me tellyou that grocery bill man is a
tough pill to swallow whenyou're, you know, so it's, it's
all these things.
So I think part of that isreally captivating in, in this

(15:38):
particular story is that it ischallenging, right?
Our lead, Ben Gavin, he laughed.
Once he got partway through thefilm, he kind of get some of his
money situations resolved for asecond, and the first thing he
does is buy pizza.
And he's like, why would thisguy do that?
And I'm like, because he justwants to love somebody.
And he's like, it's just pizza.
It's not a big deal.
But now, you know, you go out toeat a couple times, it's, it's

(16:01):
kind of a deal and, you know,breaks the budget.
But the response that I haveheard, obviously I haven't heard
from everybody, but I have heardfrom a couple people who are a
generation or two past us, havebeen positive and connected with
it.
And part of that could bebecause it's that lens of the
south.
I wanted to put a lens of it onthere because I wanted to, not
only am I, you know, connectedto the south, but like there's a

(16:24):
little bit of style and a littlebit of flair that can add onto
that because you don't see a lotof films set in the rural south.
They do exist, but you don't seethat that many.
Right.
but specifically I had, a, acouple that are, you know, two,
two and a half generationspassed me that watched it, both
loved it, and these two peoplehave dealt with, losing some of

(16:48):
their family members and thenraising their grandchildren.
Mm-hmm.
And for them to then go.
I loved it, you know, for thewife to be like, I cried my eyes
out, I couldn't stop.
You know?
That to me obviously makes youfeel good, cuz you did what you
wanted to do, right?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Like that was, that was reallygood and positive, reaffirmation

(17:09):
of, you know, what we weretrying to do.
And I can remember a coupledifferent conversations that I
overheard at a film festival Ican think of, I can think of
three at three different filmfestivals where it was somebody
who was a good maybe 15, 20years older than I that were,
you know, she obviously was kindof cleaning herself up.
and they're having aconversation about, you know,

(17:29):
what do we, you know, this, thiswas so good.
What would we do if we, youknow, lost each other?
Obviously they're a little bitmore moved on, but they still
connected to it.
so, so far I've heard that, Imean, I'm sure, the only
negative one that I've.
from somebody who's a little bitmore removed from us is that
somebody was like, I can'tbelieve how much language was in
it.
And I don't feel like there'sthat much language, but there
definitely is some, I mean, it'smeant to be an adult film.

(17:51):
and we tried to market it and,and sell it in such a way
letting people know, Hey, thisis, you know, it's, it's got the
morality that you probably arelooking for, but it's wrapped in
a package of being very seriousand very adult.
It's not a Hallmark movie,right?
Mm-hmm.
it's, it's, it's an adultHallmark movie.
so I, I think that's probablythe one that I've heard most
recently was like, I can'tbelieve the language.

(18:13):
but that was probably, you can'tplease ever, you should
recommend Hacksaw Ridge

Kent (18:15):
to them for their

Kiel (18:16):
next Yes.
Oh, you're right.
I, Anna, I think you hit it onthe head, especially when you're
talking about your film, is thatany filmmaker going into this,
you have to know you will notplease everyone.
Yeah.
Period.
It will not happen.
You're probably not gonna please75%.
I think, I think if you please60, you're doing something

(18:38):
right, because not everybody'sgonna be into your thing.
Not everybody liked pick the,your favorite movie you saw in
the last two to three years.
Not everyone like that.
There's probably people you knowthat don't like that movie.
I don't wanna watch that.
Right.
I've almost

Kent (18:51):
found that like anything above 90% on Rotten Tomatoes I
don't like anymore.
And like, and it's like the onesthat are in like the seventies
now are starting to be my primespot.
It's the

Anna (19:02):
ones that are so controversial, they're, they're
like,

Kent (19:03):
either they're just love it or heated.
They're personal enough andthey're artistic enough that
there's people that are like,this rubbed me wrong.
And it's like, because it, ithad to elicit an emotional
response and it wasn't thisperfectly calculated movie made
by a committee coming out oflike Marvel Studios or something
where it's like, oh, well what'sthere?
Not like, it's like Exactly.
Which is like, what's there.

(19:25):
Work with, you know, like, it'slike there's nothing to dislike.
So it's this perfect, like,wholesome thing, but it's not
even wholesome.
I would say San Sanitized is, isthe problem.
And so the that, that's myexperience with the script, man,
that I've been tr trying towrite for a little bit now, and
I finally just had to come tothe conclusion.
Everyone but me is gonna hatethis film.
That's the only, that's the onlything I could do to like get

(19:47):
myself into a head space where Iwas just like, I've just gotta
let go of it.
Like everyone but me is gonnahate it and I'm gonna write it
anyway and I'm gonna make itanyway.
And in the end, Someone's gonnathank me for it.
You know, someone, it's

Anna (20:00):
a tricky balance.
It's a tricky balance.
I think you have to makesomething that you wanna see
like that you legitimately like.
Yeah.
And tell me your thoughts to,Kyle and Adam, but I, I also
think you have to balance thatwe've done rigorous testing with
ours.
I don't know if you guys did anylike of that process.
and we had to, you know, get toa point where it's like, all
right, it's averaging prettygood and, you know, no one's

(20:21):
ever going to be like all tensall around.
But

Kent (20:24):
our first test screening audience was an audience of one
who happened to be

Adam (20:28):
Adam

Anna (20:31):
That's true.
That was our

Kiel (20:32):
very first test score.
I think it got a pretty score.
Yeah, it probably, yeah.
Needed a low

Anna (20:37):
score.
It was a totally different film,but,

Kent (20:40):
Yeah.

Adam (20:40):
I think Kyle's right, you can't focus on

Kiel (20:45):
You

Adam (20:45):
gotta put it out there that you're only going to
please, you know, 60 to 70% ofthe audience, and then you have
to stop worrying about that 30%.
They're not important.
you know, there's going to besomebody out there who's willing
to buy your idea, who's going tobe willing to put money behind
it.
you just have to keep on lookingfor that person.

(21:06):
You just have to keep onknocking on doors.
You just have to keep on pushingit.
You will find your 60%.
you just gotta keep looking forit.
and I think that's the importantthing to, to kind of remember.
as you know, you're a filmmakergoing through this, whether
you're writing or you're, youknow, actually in production or
in test screenings.
you know, you, I think you guyssaid it, you, you just, you have

(21:28):
to write what you want.
You, you have to create what youwant to see.
and you will find that there areothers out there that are
wanting to see that same.
Yeah.

Kent (21:38):
Yeah.
I'm, I'm trying to remember themovie.
It was like, I listened to theinterview with the producer of
Alien, I think it was, I thinkit was Alien.
Oh.
And they tested it up in likeMinnesota or something, and it
just bombed, it bombed so bad inthe test screening that like,
all the producers were like onthe plane, and they were like,
what are we gonna do?
All right, let's start lookingat scenes that we're gonna have

(21:59):
to chop.
Like, it's just gonna be a flop.
Like, we thought we hadsomething here.
Like, we thought it was reallygood.
And then they went to Texas andscreened it, and it was like a
raging success.
Like, people were just losingtheir minds in the theaters.
People were screaming, peoplewere shouting, and like, it was
just like a smash.
And they were just like, oh,maybe, maybe it's not so bad.
Like, it's just like And it'slike, it's the same movie and

(22:19):
you just get this group ofpeople together and, and it's,
yeah.
It's just a, it's a funny thingand maybe it was the weather
that day, you know, it's just,you don't know.

Kiel (22:28):
Yeah.
David Sandberg, which is, theShazam director.
Yeah.
And like now he has a reallygood, it's like eight to 10
minute YouTube video that he'sanimated about test screenings.
Yeah.
And screening.
And it's so well thought out.
I mean, obviously he's comingfrom, you know, a bigger, a more
robust budget area, right.
Dealing with DC mm-hmm.
and things like that.
But I think so much of it istrue that you're right.

(22:49):
Depends on the weather.
And if you're doing testscreenings with people online,
it's okay.
Did they have their phone out?
Did somebody, you know, they do,they have kids.
Did somebody wake up halfwaythrough and they had to go and
deal with that and they comeback and go, wait, where was I?
Did they watch it Monday morningbefore to work?
Or did they sit down, grabpopcorn, turn the lights off and
watch it with their spouse?
Because those screeningexperience are wildly different.

(23:11):
but we absolutely did somescreenings.
they were all online cuz we weredoing it in the midst of Covid.
So we did not get a face-to-facescreening.
So many of the things that wegot, we just missed out on
face-to-face but, what we werereally looking for is patterns,
right?
We were just looking for thosepattern moments.
Was this an issue?
Was this an issue?
and there were some, there werea few that were patterns that
nothing egregious, but like, Iwould like some more clarity on

(23:32):
this.
Oh, you know, 11 other peoplesaid this exact same thing from
the screening.
Okay.
There might be something here.
Yeah.
and taking some of that intoaccount as, as much as we could,
for the film.
and I, I think it did make itbetter ultimately, but it didn't
change a lot.
It changed some small things,but it didn't change like
massive waves of things, likeI'm sure what the film is.

(23:55):
Yeah.
Right.
It, it is what it is, right.
We're not dealing with, I can'tgo back and do reshoots, right.
We're an independent smallproduction on an ultra low
budget scale.
It is what it is at the end ofthe day.
And yeah, the scary part iseventually you have to just go.
All right.
Y'all watch it and I can't touchit ever again.
and I'm at that point now.

(24:15):
We're, we can never touch itagain.
It's done.
It's out there.

Anna (24:18):
Yeah.
How long has it been, the wholeprocess from start

Kiel (24:21):
to end?
I started writing, well, mydaughter was born and she's six
now, so There you go.
Okay.
So that was the writing process.
Yeah.
the writing process took alittle bit of time.
Mm-hmm.
And then, I hate talking aboutCovid, but Covid did slow us
down because that was all in ourpost-production.
We did at one point.
I'm so thankful we didn't, butat one point we really talked
about shooting the summer of2020 to have an extra, you know,

(24:44):
year to get our pre-productiondone.
Mm-hmm.
that would've been height ofCovid, so I'm very glad we
didn't, because then thatwould've pushed, you know, even
further beyond.
So, but I mean, yeah, it's.
I started writing when she wasborn.
So it's been about six years nowat this point.
Yeah.
Wow.

Kent (24:59):
So for filmmakers like us, we're like, especially these
initial films.
This is your first feature film,right, Kyle?
Yep.
Yeah.
Well, it takes a long time toget these movies made, man.
It's like, I like listen to,Ryan Johnson, director of, yeah,
LA The Last Jedi Knives Out,yada yada.
And, his, his lifelong DP SteveEdlin, they were best friends in

(25:22):
college and they've workedtogether on every film.
Steve Edlin talks about, like,you know, you, you go to school
and you're like a dp.
You go to LA and you just startshooting movies.
You know, you just start pickingup gigs and you just hop on
projects and, and he says, andthen like six years, your friend
who graduated as a director.
It's like, Hey, I'm gonna makemy first thing, like, you know,
yep.

(25:42):
I'm gonna make this movie.
And he's like, he's like, atthat point, and he's like, I was
like commanding, like a decentDave raid as a dp, but it's like
his best friend.
So his producer's like, wait,this guy said he'll do this
movie for you for like a hundredbucks a day.
And he is like, yeah.
And he is like, well do it, man.
Like, and, and yeah.
And so, like, you know, for somany people, actors, dps, why

(26:03):
it, it just takes a ton ofcommitment, I think, for
directors to be like, I don'treally just, it's not like, oh,
I'll make my passion project inthree months because I'll just
take this one for the money.
It's like, I'm gonna make a filmand I'm just gonna have to say,
you basically have to say, I'lljust, I'll just work on this for
as long as it takes until itexists, you know?
Yeah.
So why, you do this one?

(26:24):
Why did you tell this story?
And you could have probably, youprobably had a shelf of ideas,
I'm assuming.

Kiel (26:30):
Sure.
But this one really stuck outbecause when I was writing it, I
wanted to write a story that Ifelt like could be done if we
had nothing, if we had noresources.
Right.
And so the story that I wrotewas that story.
It was a place called home,which could have been done for
nothing.
It would've taken longer.
It wouldn't have been as good,you know, I wouldn't have got to
make some of the contact, wewouldn't have gotten probably

(26:51):
any of our amazing cast.
and so that was where it camefrom, was that necessity of
nothing.
We got a little bit, to be ableto do something with it, but I
just made a really big, I, I'mkind of coming to the consensus
that I realized this chapter isnow closing in my life.
And I made a really big post andI was thinking, you know,
through conversations I hadearly on with, and there was one

(27:13):
in particular that was me.
It was Adam, our other producer,Nathan Banister, and our
director of photography here ofour music.
And early on we all sat down andwent, this is gonna be a
marathon.
And it's been, it really hasbeen.
It's, it's been even longer thanI thought it would be.
And there's so many projectsthat go through it that maybe
they do get done.
and then they don't know whereto go from there.
Or maybe they go through a fewfestivals and they're like,

(27:33):
well, crap, what do I do now?
And we just made a, we just madea commitment early on that we
were gonna go, okay, look, if wewanna make other things and
we've gotta prove that we cantake this one through through
the ringer, you gotta pay yourdues, right?
Mm-hmm.
for me, in this particularstory, it rings true to so many
things that I believe that Ibelieve there is a really big

(27:55):
emphasis that we can put onfamily, whatever family looks
like to you.
And family looks very differentto everybody else, right?
And I think that that's the mostintrinsically important thing to
humanity is our family, right?
How we grow up, what we'reraised with, things like that.
And I wanted to tell that story,and then the fact that I could

(28:15):
film it because we filmed it inmy hometown.
and, and I grew up in an areathat, you know, my hometown.
I remember getting our firststoplight when I was 16.
It's the only stoplight that'sstill in this, in that town,
Wow.
So, that to me was reallyimportant to be able to, to put
that lens on my first projectwhere I realized that I wanted
to make movies.
did I think it was gonna takesix years?

(28:37):
No.
I really thought it was gonna belike a two to three process, but
it's just not the case.
I don't have, you know, we don'thave a huge studio backing us.
We don't have a huge PR teambacking us, anything like that.
So it's, it's gotta be us.
We have to hustle for.
if I opened up a business today,it's not gonna make money in a
year.
Right, right.
It's gonna take time to get thatstuff going.

Adam (28:58):
I mean, even, even after we got done with, our, most of
our film festivals were in 2022,right?
Yes, Kyle.
Yeah.
So most of our film festivalswere in 2022.
Welcome to

Kiel (29:10):
2023, by the way.
Everybody New Year.
but I mean, I can remember,

Adam (29:17):
you know, Kyle and I are both, professors at college so
for this last spring and fallsemester, you know, we've been
trading emails back and forthand I've been working on getting
contracts all together andmaking sure all the i's are
dotted and the t's are crossedand that people actually signed
them.
those of you who are currentlyin production that may be

(29:39):
listening to this, thosesignatures at the bottom do
matter so make sure you getthose.
you know, just going through allthis list of stuff that the
distributor needs in order tolegally be able to distribute
this film.
and you know, it wasn't untilwhat, October, November that we
finally got like everything doneand turned in.

Kiel (30:03):
I think it was, I think it was early November.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was Thanksgiving for sure.
Yeah.
But just barely

Anna (30:12):
now I've heard that from a lot of people that that can be a
beast.
what happens if you don't havesomething

Kiel (30:18):
Just, well, it depends on what that something is, I would,
you know, imagine if it's, youknow, how big of an effect is it
gonna have?
Is it your lead?
Never signed their contract?
Okay.
Well that's, that might be adeal breaker, right?
Yeah.
or maybe it's something that youhave to go, just have to go back
and get.
There was, I remember one thingthat I had to go back and get,
from somebody else that we hadthe verbal, we had the written

(30:40):
agreement, but we just didn'thave the thing signed.
Right.
and so much of it is just makingsure that you have all.
Ducks in a row.
if you don't have something,it's gonna depend on how
important that something is.
you're like, darn it, I

Anna (30:53):
don't, I didn't keep the receipt for that lamp.
And now now we can't sell it.

Kiel (30:59):
Well, I mean like, yeah.
I mean obviously something like,that's not a big deal.
But

Kent (31:02):
I mean, like, I mean, you listen to like someone like,
Australian commercial directorof Mark Toya, who talked about
making his little movie for likea million dollars of his own
money And he says, you know,something that's not gonna break
the bank, make us lose sleep.
And I was like, oh, yeah, that'snice.
Yeah.
And, yeah, and, and he, but hetalks about like, these
YouTubers making great contentout there, and they're making

(31:23):
like some really impressivestuff.
And there, there are people outthere that are making like
remarkable looking, soundingwell produced, high-end stuff,
and they're throwing it onYouTube and just to command,
like, audience, you know, justto pull an audience in
sponsorship.
And he's like, and then you goand you make this movie for like
a million dollars.
You put your heart and soul intoit.
He say, you go throw it.
And like some Germandistributors, like, well,

(31:43):
there's a dead pixel at thistime code, the AI found it.
And he's just like,

Kiel (31:49):
who cares?
Like, I just don't, yeah.

Kent (31:51):
It's have you experienced anything like that where your
distributor's like, oh, I needthis thing.
And you're just like, look, ifyou need that, just forget it.
Like, have you, like, have yourun into anything like that?

Adam (32:01):
Nothing quite like that you had, oh gosh.
How many exports did you wind

Kiel (32:08):
up going through?
Oh man.
So we did have to go throughquality check.
So there's a, you know, atertiary company.
There is a quality check to makesure everything's good.
So that way when Apple gets itor whatever, you know, goes
where it needs to go.
And we had some sound issuesthat, somewhere along the lines,
we had to go through all thequality check stuff.
and at some point along thelines, and I'm sure that I did
it.
We messed up our audio somewhereand I didn't notice it.

(32:29):
Mm-hmm.
And so I had to go back to oursound designer, who was, is an
amazing sound designer out of,off the East Coast, Randy Field
who just had the original stems,went back and redid it.
but there was one that was kindof funny and it reminded me of
Jurassic Park, cuz there's kindof a famous thing in Jurassic
Park with a velo raptor.
But there's a, a moment in thefilm where there's a visual
effect of a combine, a corncombine, and for some reason it

(32:53):
just disappears for a frame andthen comes right back in and we
didn't notice it.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
And so that, we had to go backand we had to fix it.
it wasn't okay to let that gothrough.
Mm-hmm.
in Jurassic Park, there's ascene where the transverse Rex
is eating Velos Raptor.
And the very first export of thefilm that went to the theaters,
the Velos Raptor, justdisappears for a frame.
Nobody knows why.

(33:14):
Oh yeah, yeah.
they fixed it since they'vefixed it since.
But so there was like that whereit's like, hey, if the quality
check company says this has tobe fixed, then this has to be
fixed.
Yeah.
Sound was a big issue.
The combine probably not a hugeissue, but obviously we had to
go back and then fix that.

Anna (33:30):
And what otherwise, how is the process of distribution been
for you?
Do you feel like it's gonna makeits money back or it has made
its money back or you, you know,what's that been like?

Kiel (33:41):
Adam and I just both had different, very different
responses.
I don't know.
You know, that's such a greatquestion because there's just,
there's so much content outthere.
We've made what I feel like onthis side of it is a very, very
good.
that doesn't have a householdname in it, and that's just the
fact of it, right?
Mm-hmm.
we have some incredible actorsin there that some people do

(34:03):
know.
They, some people do know Ben,some people do know Sean.
some people do know Paul.
Like there are some names inthere, but there's not somebody
that my mom would just recognizeoff the top of her head, right?
So that's just the reality ofit.
I'm hopeful that it will, buteven if it does, it's gonna be a
marathon again, right?
Mm-hmm.
it's not gonna be in six months.

(34:24):
right.
You know, it might be in sixyears mm-hmm.
that that process happens.
yeah.
But I think the, the

Adam (34:30):
important thing is, you know, getting it out there, we
are currently, you know, forrental or for purchase, right
now, which is kind of the firstphase of distribution, post
covid, our distribution company,didn't even, purchase, not
purchase, but they didn't evenwant to acquire our theatrical

(34:50):
rights.
they left those with us cuzthey're like, it's just way too
expensive for us, thedistribution company to try to
get your film into theaters.
theaters are charging so muchmoney nowadays, to get a film
to, you know, screen for evenone night.
so we still have thosetheatrical rights, but, you

(35:11):
know, you go through that rentalprocess.
You hope that you, startgenerating some buzz.
You start getting people todownload it, you know, it starts
to take off on a life of itsown.
I have noticed we have moved upAmazon's ranking.
when you type in a place calledhome, we, we are slowly creeping
up that, that, search result.
So you go through that so thatyou can then do the spo, you can

(35:33):
do the subscription, you know,the Netflixes, Amazon Prime,
Hulu, those places, you know,you're trying to generate buzz
that you can get a better dealout of the subscription
services.
and you know, that's a gamethat's probably going to take
years.
You know, we'll probably sign a,exclusive contract hopefully,
with one, Subscription serviceafter the terms of that contract

(35:57):
expire, you know, we'll go backto other subscription services
and see if somebody else wantsto, you know, play the game
next.
and then after that you kind ofgo into a v od, which is
advertising supported video ondemand, so your Pluto TV and all
of that.
and everyone else now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
Disney, you know, everyone's adsupported.

(36:17):
Now.
I think even Netflix is thinkingabout ads now.
Everyone,

Kent (36:21):
everyone will be ad supported before the end of this
year.
yeah.

Adam (36:24):
Yay.
2023.
so you do that and then, youknow, then you have all of your
ancillary markets, you, yourairlines, your hotels.
I think somewhere along thatline we'll try to do some
overseas distribution.
But again, you know, thanks tothe pandemic, thanks to
streaming, even, you know,European countries are not quite

(36:46):
as interested.
in just the run of the MillAmerican films.
because they're now seeing thatthey can develop their own,
country's film industry in theirfilm culture, in their native
language.
which I think is great in, youknow, it's good.
as Kyle has said, you know, allfamilies are u are unique, each
country and how they approachstory is also unique.

(37:07):
and.

Kent (37:09):
But you might, you might find some interest in Europe
because, you know, movies likeThunder Road did really well in
France.
Mm-hmm.
because of its, its americaness,you know?
it was like a, almost avoyeuristic experience for the
French to be like, wow, this islike an American cop, you know,
like dealing with like this.
Like, but, but, but the moviewas like a tragic comic, which
is just such a genre that theFrench love, like, it's sad, but

(37:32):
it's, it's funny at the sametime.
Like, it's Right.
It's like, you know, and so youget like, you might actually
find some interest there.
I even think the movie would dowell in Spanish speaking
countries, especially LatinAmerican countries.
your film might have someinterest there because of its,
rural mm-hmm.
mm-hmm.
sort of, I mean that, that scenewhere he talks to that lone guy
for the first time and, andtalks about land and, I don't

(37:53):
know, there's something aboutthat that I'm just like, no, I
think that this like fight tolike keep the family alive.
Would really resonate with,Hispanic people.
This is talking to someone who'slived in Hunters for two years
and lived in Chile.
You know, like we, we, we have alot of friends from Mexico.
yeah.
I'm like, yeah, maybe.
I mean, the py pieing is a bigproblem, but you might be you
might be able to make deals withlike television networks and
stuff.
So yeah, it's

Kiel (38:14):
interesting.
It, it's definitely a part ofthe conversation going forward
of seeing where it can go, youknow, after this kind of initial
push of mm-hmm.
what it's gonna do.
one of the cool markets thatwe've unlocked is, I mean
through the distributors likelibraries, and you don't think
about that, but like, my familygoes, the libraries like three
times a week.
No joke.
Like, we are always like at thelibrary.
Oh yeah.
It's awesome.
And that's awesome.
Yeah.
We love it too.

(38:35):
Yeah.
So it's unlocking some of those,some of those odd markets.
There's a, a streaming servicethat universities can access to
that we have called, canopy, K An O P y.
Hmm.
but it's, so we have it where Iwork and there's.
Tons of incredible stuff onthere.
And so that's like anothermarket to look at as like
educational markets.

(38:55):
I, Adam brought that up, butlike, those educational markets
are big streaming platformmarkets.
Mm-hmm.
that are like their own littlething.
it's such a,

Anna (39:02):
and libraries, it's like selling DVDs to libraries or
mm-hmm.
or those stream.

Kiel (39:06):
Well, no, libraries and well on libraries also have
streaming stuff because ourlibrary had access to it.
My wife watched it.
I was like, you've watched itbefore.
She's like, I know, I wannawatch it again.
you know, through a streamingplatform that our library has
access to.
So it's, you know, it variesdepending on, you know, the
library itself.
but some of that,

Adam (39:24):
I think, I think they even put it on hoopla, which a lot of
libraries have access to.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Kent (39:29):
You know, it's interesting, even DVDs, like,
there was a film, filmmaker fromTexas who was just interviewed
on the, indie Film Hustlepodcast.
And, he talked about that.
He, he, his biggest client was adistributor who said, I just
want your rights for librarydistribution.
And he just put it on like,every library in the United
States now has his movie.
And it, in honestly, some of thebest movies I've ever seen in my

(39:52):
life were in film school andfrom the public library.

Kiel (39:55):
Yeah.
I mean, that's where I go andfind my stuff.

Kent (39:59):
Most, they're way better than any streaming service that
I've ever found, ever.

Kiel (40:02):
They have everything.
Support your local librarieskids.
Yes.
Yeah.

Kent (40:07):
Well, and, and go to your local libraries, filmmakers,
Yeah.
Like if you wanna see the bestmovies you've ever seen and be
inspired, like go to the foreignsection,

Kiel (40:16):
hundreds and

Kent (40:16):
just like pick up random stuff and like, Man, I could
just list the movies.
They're just

Anna (40:22):
life-changing.
Well, I was gonna recommendCorta to you Kyle, if you love
family stories.
He's a Japanese filmmaker who'salways exploring like what does
it mean to be a family and whatdoes that look like?
And astonishing filmmaker, he'samazing.
Roger Love his

Kent (40:36):
work.
I think Ro Roger Ebert said thathe was one of the greatest
living directors of our time,like one of the greatest living
directors on the earth.

Anna (40:44):
Corta.
Wow.
So K O r K

Kent (40:47):
O R E E D.
Yeah.
He's awesome.
Yeah, I think you like that one.
Getting recommendation.
If anyone is a longtime listenerof our podcast, they're gonna be
like really tired of hearing usrecommend cor those people Like

Kiel (41:03):
if that's the only thing I hear outta this podcast,

Anna (41:06):
Yeah.
I think it's interesting cuz itis almost like you've purchased
a property or you own an assetnow and.
you could sometimes just sellthe whole thing outright.
Mm-hmm.
or you can lease it out andyou're not gonna make back the
cost of it immediately.
You're not gonna make Not overtime.
Yeah.
Eventually you'll pay off thehouse and you can keep renting

(41:27):
it out and you can build up yourproperties and, you know, it's
like real estate in a way.
this different

Kiel (41:32):
assets.
Well, and, and realistically indistribution now, I mean, any
film at our level is not gettingbought out, right?
It's just not No, absolutely.
That's not happening.
Mm-hmm.
unless you have a name or youhave won a tier one festival,
there's your opportunity.
And even then it's a littlerare.
So we're dealing with a, afairly substantial distributor,
freestyle digital media.
They, they do a bunch of stuff.

(41:53):
One of the properties they'reowned is shortlisted for like
best, feature animation thisyear.
Mm-hmm.
and, we through a kind of.
Series of events.
We, you know, have this kind ofpersonal relationship with a few
of them now that work there.
And they've talked about likegoing to South by Southwest,
going to Sundance and beinglike, look, here's what we can
offer to you.
and the expectation of thefilmmaker to be like, whoa,

(42:15):
where's my 5 million check?
And they're like, that's not athing.

Kent (42:19):
Yeah, right.
Absolutely.
No, I think that's such, it's animportant thing for people to
accept.
I think going into the processof feature filmmaking and it's
not a hopeless thing, there'sjust a new way of looking at
filmmaking and film distributionthat we just have to change the
way we're thinking about it.
And we can't expect to sell ourmovies for a million bucks at a
f tier one festival.
Even if you get into a tier oneand once again, thunder Road,

(42:42):
they had to self-distributebecause they were like, no one
would even offer us the budgetof the film.
And they won South by Southwest,like Grand, grand Jury prize at
South by Southwest.
And people were like, do youwant like 200,000 for your film?
Like, That would be a wash forus,

Kiel (42:58):
our film cost.
Like, yeah, I don't thinkanybody really knew what to do
with that film.
It's so good.
But I don't think most peopleknew what to do with that film.
Well, that's, most people

Kent (43:07):
don't know what to do with well-made, independent,
creative, different sort ofmovies that are not, they don't
know, they're not stuck.

Adam (43:15):
They don't even trust

Kent (43:16):
themselves.
Most of these people, especiallystudio executives, they don't
even trust their own opinions.
Like, they're like, well, isthere big name actor?
Are there robots Like, you know,it's like, how do I sell this?
Like, they're just, that's allthey can think.
Like, and, and you don't havethat.
Then they're just like, well, noone will watch it then.
And then all of a suddensomething explodes.

(43:36):
That's like, breaks all therules because it's a good film,
but they don't know what thatis.
You know?
So, you know, it's your job toknow what that is.
You know?

Kiel (43:46):
So, so much of what we talked about, like what we've
talked about so far has been,makes it feel like it's very,
Hopeless almost, to create filmwhere in an age where I can grab
my phone right now and I can beon 50,000 different things that
I wanna watch.
Right?
And, and it might feel that wayto a lot of people.

(44:06):
and I would be lying if I didn'tsay there are definitely times
throughout this process thatit's felt like that for me.
I think you should use that, notas a means to say nevermind, but
a means to check yourself andgo, am I passionate about this?
Because I can promise you rightnow, if you're not in it,
because you love the art of it,it will destroy you.

(44:30):
You have to, you have to.
It's too challenging.
It's too difficult.
Unless you just know somepeople, if you have, your
buddy's uncle is an execsomewhere, right?
Unless you have that attitude,it's gonna be a journey and you
gotta be able to be in it for along haul.
You just can't go into itflippantly.
and say, well cool, I'm gonnatake out this loan and make this

(44:51):
movie and it'll be great.
Well, and then I'll be a

Adam (44:53):
millionaire and retired to my yacht in The

Kent (44:55):
Bahamas.
Right.
And never make movies again cuzI don't even like doing this

Kiel (45:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like, gosh.
Yeah.
There have been so many peoplethat I've listened to that have
done interviews that are like,after you get in with your first
ones, if you make a second one,then you're really there.
Like you've decided you've madeit through it and you go, okay,
maybe I can do that again.
Like, okay, great.
That's where, you know, likeSweet.
After our first

Kent (45:21):
film wrapped on production, Anna and I
definitively stated we werenever making a film again.
And we believed it.
We believed it.
Our house was ripped to shreds.
Our family felt like it wasgoing to, like, it was hanging
by a thread.
Like we thought we would just,we had ruined everything.
Our lives were like over kind ofa dramatic, you know, thing.
And then like, of course, youknow, you, you recover, you get
some sleep and the edit comestogether and, and then it's bad.

(45:45):
But then a few months later itstarts to come together and
you're like, oh wow.
It's actually, actually, it'sreally coming together like,

Kiel (45:52):
now that it's no longer two hours and 40 minutes long.
Yeah,

Kent (45:55):
it's good.
It's actually pretty good.
And, and then you start to go,we learned too much and we've
come too far to not make anotherone.
And yeah.
And we really do love it.
It was just like, you get, youknow, it's exactly what you
said, like that first film, likeif you, if you can get over it,
it can be, it was intense forus.
I mean, we, we learnedeverything the hard way.
I feel like, I feel like we didnot have any wisdom whatsoever

(46:17):
in our first film.
Well,

Kiel (46:19):
for me, like that first one, we wrapped production.
Yeah.
It was rough because.
So the opening of the movie,there's a big pregnant belly,
that's my wife, right.
Who was pregnant with Oh, okay.
At the time with my son at thetime.
So the movie wrapped and it wasless than, it was less than 30
days later that we had a baby.
And so, and that it was so much,cuz it was the summer we were
traveling, we were 16 hours cuzwe were living in Virginia Beach

(46:41):
at the time.
And so there was so much of thistraveling back and forth that it
was, it was very much like a, ohmy gosh, what have I gotten
myself into, kind of thing.
And I wanna take the opportunityto really promote the idea of
independent filmmakers.
Setting some money aside if youcan, and if you know somebody to
hire an editor that you trust.
And I want to tout ShaunaPhillips, who is doing

(47:03):
everything in the world inGeorgia right now in so much
post production.
But she was our editor and therewas so much of the film that she
was able to pull out of the.
because I was so close to itthat she was able to look at
manipulate, look at it veryobjectively, and really kind of
saved my sanity in the midst ofthat because I was able to trust

(47:25):
somebody handed over.
It didn't hurt that she'sextremely talented, but, you
know, that could, that couldshoulder some of that burden.
So that way yeah, I was stillwatching it every day, but I
wasn't spending eight to 10hours on it every day.
Mm-hmm.
you know, I was spending twohours a day.
Right.
And maybe every day off becauseshe wants to mess with some
stuff or take the weekend offand I know that it's being

(47:45):
worked on.
So, you know, independentfilmmakers that that's, that's
an important thing.
I know you're great editors,everybody can edit, but if you
can have just a little bit setaside to let somebody at least
take a little bit of time withit, I think.
it'll make your film better, butit'll make your, you know,
hopefully mentality better.

Adam (48:04):
Well, and I think that's the other thing, you know, that
we've kind of been skirtingaround with this, is it's not
just the director, it's not justthe writer that has to have the
passion, to see a projectthrough.
It's the team that you havebuilt around yourself.
you know, there have been daysand Kyle could probably point
them out on the calendar.
He probably circled them, whereI just did not have the

(48:28):
enthusiasm to do a bunch ofstuff.
you know, he would pester mewith emails,

Kiel (48:32):
Yeah.
But, you know,

Adam (48:34):
I, I do have that passion for this project.
I wanted to see it through.
but you know, I think that's theother thing we gotta re realize
as the dependent filmmakers iswe're going to have bad days.
There are going to be days whereyou just do not want to do
anything on your film.
and you may be in the process ofgetting contracts and lined up
for a distributor, or you may beworking on the edit and, knee

(48:59):
deep and post.
and you need that person thatyou can, that can sh shoulder
that for a while, until you getback into that groove and you're
back on your good days.
and I think that's the otherthing, is you need that core
group.
You need that team, that cankeep you motivated, keep pushing
you and you know, when you havea bad day, they're not having a

(49:22):
bad day.
And so, Responsibility can kindof shift.
and that's the other importantthing about doing this
independently, is, is havingthat core group together.
So, and we were lucky to be ableto find that on a place called
home.
So

Kent (49:40):
That's so good to hear.
I don't even know how we mether, but we actually ended up
working with a really goodco-editor, Adam's familiar with,

Kiel (49:46):
Hmm.
I don't remember who, who wasthat again?
Start with a deed.
Yeah,

Adam (49:50):
right on the Danielle.
Yeah.
Adam's wife

Kent (49:52):
Danielle.
Excellent.
Danielle literally saved us forall the reasons that you guys
were expressing, which is like,I mean, it was even more than
just like an off day.
I mean, we were experiencingmonumental family health crises
and tragedies and all thesethings that were like, it was
months long of literal shutdown.
Like we, we could not putanything into it.

(50:13):
And I remember just like at thatpoint, Just feeling this relief
that, like, I couldn't even lookat the film for a week at a
time.
Oh yeah.
Two weeks at a time, because Iwas like a full-time dad and
like people were in and outtahospital and whatnot.
And like, and just knowing thatlike Danielle was working on, it
was like a, a huge relief thatwe were even progressing towards

(50:35):
like an assembly cut, you know,like I don't even know where
we'd be at this point without,without really, without her

Anna (50:42):
support.
So, so that's a really good wordof advice.
And we're short on time here, soI do wanna just ask, you know,
what other words of warning orwords of advice, or like what
are the biggest takeaways, youknow, that you have after this
experience of making your firstfilm that you would want to
impart?

Kent (50:59):
Can, can I, can your wisdom.
Can I even reframe thatquestion?
Sure.
Into two more direct questions.
Okay.
The first one is, what was yourbiggest mistake?
On this film, whether it wasartistically or like
managerially.
And then what was your, what waslike your best move, like the,
the thing you did most,

Kiel (51:17):
right?
Those are all very goodquestions.
either

Kent (51:22):
one.
It's for both of you.
It's a toss up jump ball.

Kiel (51:26):
Creatively.
There's something I've beenwrestling with for a while,
which would be changing thewhole ending of the film but it
works.
It works, it works.
But I mean there, I think, youknow, you eventually have to put
it out there and no one gets togo back.
You don't get to then go, okay,I know you watched that version,
but what about this and whatabout that?
Or, Hey, get this cuteventually.

(51:46):
You gotta do it.
It will never be perfect.
Period.
Eventually you got to do it.
You gotta push it out.
You gotta let it be seen.
And what happens

Kent (51:56):
if you do make it perfect is you get to George Lucas and
he's like released like sevenversions of Star Wars and you're
like, you've ruined this

Kiel (52:02):
Then email me, go to a place called home, a place
called home film.com and emailme.
and, yeah,

Kent (52:09):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh

Adam (52:11):
God.
Oh gosh.
I don't know.
I, I think, you know, the, thegreatest takeaway, a again, this
is more from a producingstandpoint, and I know that this
can be a bit of a struggle withindependent films.
but it, it is just every singlescrap of paper that you put the,

(52:31):
the name of the film on orsomebody signs or anything like
that, make sure you have thathard copy, somewhere easily
accessible.
make sure also you digitize itand back it up on the cloud
somewhere.
so we had a stack of hard copiessigned, releases.

(52:54):
Have just disappeared.
We have no idea where they are.
luckily we backed all those up,and we have them digitally.
but to this day I've moved,Kyle's moved, we've gone through
our entire houses.
We didn't throw them away.
they were marked important, butwe've never been able to find
them, So, you know, I think thatwould be my key takeaway away is
just from a producingstandpoint.

(53:15):
because as two people who havejust gone through and gotten
distribution, the distributorwill ask, you know, anytime
you're the name of your companyor your film appears on paper in
relation to that project, thethe distribution company is
going to ask for that paperwork.
so just make sure you keep trackof it.
Google Drive is

(53:36):
phenomenal.

Kiel (53:36):
I thank you Adam.
You gave me time to think.
I think you're welcome.
you out for the last twominutes.
No, I didn't.
I, I, I hundred percent agreewith him because, It really made
me realize, I think the thingthat we did wrong the most was
post-production.
Mm-hmm.
was really having anunderstanding of what it takes

(53:58):
and having enough of our budgetset aside for post.
Amen, brother.
Right.
Now you get, you get, so peopleget burned in post and, and, and
I don't feel like peopleunderstand when you're going
through it, like you go throughquality check that caused
something or you got e n O thatcaused something.
You've got your sound designer,you got your, I mean everything,
right?
Mm-hmm.
So having some of that set ussome more of that set aside for

(54:19):
post and we set some aside forpost.
and it still wasn't enough.
So it just really understandingwhat it takes to, to complete
it, to actually get it finished.
But the thing that we did right,a hundred percent was again,
that kind of brain trust.
It was me and Adam and Nate, andErin, and some of Shelly when
she was involved too, is we hadmultiple, and I mean every day

(54:41):
or every other day, four to fivehour pre-production
conversations when we got onset.
We only had two days, go to 12,we shot for 24, we had four days
go over 10.
Everything else was 10 andunder.
Wow.
Which is like not a normalindependent feature film
production, especially cuz wehad, you know, a sizable amount

(55:02):
of cast and crew for us.
And

Adam (55:04):
so the audience knows we have a two hour feature.
You know, this is not a, andthis is not a short 90 minute
comedy.
This is a two hour feature.
And yeah, we, we did not doexcessively long days.
also because all of us were,well, most of us had families
and too, and, you know, we wererespectful of that as well.

Kiel (55:25):
But we had so much scheduled and so much planned
out that it made Hitchcock talksabout, you know, going on to
production is like going onvacation because he has
everything listed in his binder,right?
Mm-hmm.
we had so many things plannedout that it really did.
Looking back on even now, andthere's so many things, little
things that as a director I'mlike, man, I wish I would've

(55:46):
done this, man, I wish Iwould've done that.
But it was smooth.
It was smooth because we tookthe time in pre-production we
were in, once we found out wewere gonna have a budget, we
were still in pre-production forsix months.
Yeah.
That's six months dedicated.
Figure out how the heck we'regonna do this and be effective
at what we're doing so thatwe're not burning every person
alive, on our set.

(56:06):
Mm-hmm.
That's huge.
Yeah.
Did you, you, you made a verydifferent movie from us, Yes.

Adam (56:14):
Every experience is unique and different.
So wish we'd heard

Anna (56:19):
that one before.
No, that's excellent.
That's good to hear that that'spossible to have that experience
and have it go smoothly with allthat preparation.
I think that no, it really ishelpful for a first film can be
that way.
It is possible.
Absolutely.
with.
Enough preparation and, did youguys pay yourselves for that

(56:40):
time or was that just spare timethat you were putting in still?

Adam (56:43):
Yeah, I mean that's, you know, the, the joy and the
heartache of independentproduction is a lot of that
pre-pro time.
you know, is is just time.
you know, that you're puttinginto the project.
but I think both of us would sayif we had not put in that time,
the quality of the project thatwe got out would not be there.

(57:06):
Yeah.
and so, you know, which againgets back to being passionate
about this project, you need tobe passionate enough to be able
to invest yourself in pre-pro sothat you can raise the quality
of the eventual project that youget out of it.
and, you know, we were able todo that.
We, we made our days.
I remember on one day on set, Ithink we were like wrapping up

(57:32):
sub eight, eight hours on, onset.
And I went to Kyle and I waslike, Do you want to do it?
It's like We, we got through thelist of everything we were
supposed to do that day and wehad done such an amazing job
planning that there wasliterally nothing else that we
could sub in.
you know, there were no otherlocations that we could go to.

(57:55):
not because of a failure ofscheduling or planning or
anything like that.
we didn't have actors, on set tobe able to do some stuff.
cuz again, we had scheduled outour days so well, and we were
like, let's just.
Call it a day, go home.
You know, we, we, we did ourjobs, we got everything done
that we needed to get done andthat we could get done.

(58:17):
And I had even pulled somethings from other days to, to
get us up to the amount of timethat we had spent on that day.
So, it is possible.
It is possible.
You

Kent (58:25):
guys are so respectful.
I, I feel like if I was in thatsituation, I would've been like,
hold on, hold on.
I'm writing another scene.

Kiel (58:31):
I'm almost done.
But, you know, I brought it upearly.
It is a marathon.
Yeah.
And like we went into thatknowing it.
So even when we got on set, wego, okay, great, this is the
first day, but by day 10 peopleare gonna be exhausted.
So every little thing that wecan find to like, give people a
break, you know?
And just know that if I, if Icall in all my favors right now,

(58:54):
I'm probably not gonna get whatI need later.
Yeah.
but I mean, and it did kind

Adam (58:59):
of work out that that short day, the crew was starting
to feel it a little bit.
and so they really didappreciate that shorter

Kiel (59:05):
day.
It was right in the middle.
Yeah, it was right in the middleof the

Adam (59:08):
day.
or in the middle of the, of theproduction shooting schedule.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so they really enjoyed thoseextra couple of hours off that
evening.
And, the next day was going tobe an intense day anyway that we
had planned.
And they knocked it out of thepark.
And I think, you know, part ofthat was because they got a
couple extra hours off the nightbefore.

Kiel (59:26):
Yeah.
Well,

Anna (59:28):
that is really awesome.
And just to wrap up, I'd love tohear just a little bit of like
what's next, what's on thehorizon, and then how can we
support you moving forward withthe film and with what you have
next in your careers.
I just think you guys are doinggreat work and um, was so
impressed with this is a reallygood first film and really worth
the watch, so everyonelistening, go, go rent it, go

(59:51):
check it out, and it's reallyworth it.
So, yeah.
How do we

Adam (59:55):
support you?
What's, what's next?
What's next?
What's next for both of you?
what's next for me is I willprobably be working on a
documentary with my university.
so we are working on, some, wehave some grants out, for some
federal dollars.
yay working for the university.
You can go and do those things.
so hopefully, we will be hearingback from that, real shortly,

(01:00:17):
and that'll be the next thing onmy plate.
it's about a local figure herein, Columbus.
that, again, kind of a veryunique southern story, and am
excited to share that.
Maybe we, I can come back onlater and talk to you guys more
about that.
Yeah,

Anna (01:00:31):
absolutely.
Yeah.
And you'll have a baby, so it'llbe totally new conversation to
after that.

Kiel (01:00:36):
I'm excited about sleep.
That's what's next for me issome sleep.
Now there, there's a couplethings that, I'm working on.
There's some things that I'mworking on with Adam.
Mm-hmm.
but, you know, nothing officialthat's yet, I'm on a writing
team for another project that'sgetting pitched pretty soon.
you know, the idea was to makethis one, and then hopefully the
next one is, you know, a step upas far as budget, as far as, you

(01:00:58):
know, things are concerned.
And that just mean, that justmeans, takes more time.
Mm-hmm.
um, I'm writing a bunch.
there's a project that Adam,myself, and some other people
are working on to try to get offthe ground, which hopefully will
happen soon.
which be, have a distributiondeal down.
So another, another narrativefeature of kind of a bigger
caliber.
and then there's a couplewriting teams that I'm a part

(01:01:19):
of, that are pitching thingssoon.
so that's really exciting as faras supporting the film,
obviously watching it, rentingit, reviewing it, that's a huge
benefit for us.
Yes, please

Adam (01:01:30):
review the film.
Don't just watch it, but, makeit really hard.
Yeah, yeah.
please review it.
unless you didn't like it.
Well,

Kiel (01:01:37):
no, honestly, even if you didn't like it, go ahead

Adam (01:01:40):
and do a review.
just cause it helps with thealgorithms.
and hey, I mean, this is thegame we all have to play.
Yeah.
and, those reviews really dohelp.
and, you know, that would be acool resource, for you guys
maybe, is to put together a listof you.
films that everyone can go andwatch and review and we can just
have a big review.

(01:02:01):
Circle Fest or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Kiel (01:02:05):
We'll have a,

Kent (01:02:05):
no, it's really, we'll have an online film festival
where the only cost of admissionis that you have to review every
film you watch.
There you go.
Don't watch in the

Kiel (01:02:13):
festival.

Anna (01:02:15):
Interesting idea.
I like it.

Kiel (01:02:17):
Yeah, you can, everything about the film, if you just go
to a place called home film.com,that'll connect to all the
social, all the press, all theways to buy, review all the
festivals, all of our behind thescenes or on Facebook,
Instagram, YouTube, you can findus.

Anna (01:02:34):
Okay.
Happy to.
Yeah, it's definitely not a hardask to go take a little time,
write a little review, you know,and she

Kent (01:02:42):
watching a really cool film.

Anna (01:02:44):
Yeah.
Totally.
Totally.
Well, thank you guys so much forjoining us on the podcast.

Kiel (01:02:48):
Okay.

Kent (01:02:51):
Thanks.
You guys.
Have a good night.
we'll see you later.

Kiel (01:02:53):
All right.

Adam (01:02:54):
Yeah.
See you guys.