Ep. 94 - The Grit and Vision of Indie Filmmaking with Matthew Taggart - Film and Family

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, well, welcome to the podcast, matt
Taggart.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah.
So you know this might soundlike an embarrassing question
because I think we've beenfriends for so many years, but
in the podcast world would youprefer to be introduced as
Matthew?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
I would prefer to be introduced as Matthew, but I
will not.
If you forget, it's not.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
I said that and I immediately felt funny it's all
right, it's no worries, it's not.
I said that and I immediatelyfelt funny All right, no worries
.
So I was like that just doesn'tsound right.
I just never thought about itvery clearly, I just was like no
, it's Matthew no worries, it'sthe beard.
Yeah, matthew, it's a full nameyou know rich beard, yeah, yes,

(00:51):
Well, matthew Taggart um friendof ours for nearly a decade film
school co-alum, brigham younguniversity.
Um matthew has shot many, manyshort films.
He's directed a recentlyreleased feature film which
we'll get into detail, calledthe counterfeit kid, and he's
done a lot of um sort ofcorporate level video production
work as well.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
And um and uh, and counterfeit kid is not your
first film it's my first onethat I directed, but it's not my
first film.
Okay well, it's the first.
I should.
It's the first time credited asthe director.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, I was going to say.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
There's a dramatic backstory to the other one, yeah
, yeah, yeah you can get intothat as much as you want or
don't want, but I mean, thoseare good stories.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
So the Did we miss anything, your?

Speaker 1 (01:38):
skill sets include directing.
I think you're a reallytalented writer.
I, directing, I think you're areally talented writer.
Um, I know you have a lot ofpost skills in terms of being
able to like just kind of get avideo production thing from
beginning to end done, you know.
Um, so I don't really I don'tknow if I want to list all your
skill sets, because we gotta getinto the content, but we don't
have time for the martial artsor the you know dance skills

(02:00):
either, I'll also mentionhusband, father of three and, uh
, currently a colorado nativeresident resident.
Yeah, wyoming native, wyomingnative, that's right, all right
so thank you, he's got a shirttoo.
Thanks for thanks for being on,and we're just.

(02:20):
I don't know how this hasn'thappened sooner, probably
because we stopped doing thispodcast for a year, but well,
which is a shame, because I, I'ma big fan, I, and that's not
just blowing smoke.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
I think you guys, I think you're, you're addressing
a lot of things that don't getbrought up in other.
I can't remember if I, if Ihave texted you all this or not,
but I sometimes have a hardtime listening to film podcasts
because they just seem to kindof talk in circles and never you
know.
Just they give you theseplatitudes like well, just

(02:49):
follow your dreams or just goout and make something and it
will happen it's like, yeah, Imean, that's only a part of it,
and getting into thenitty-gritty, I think, is a much
more beneficial realm to be in.
So so I'm honored to be a partof it.
Well, that's just reallyappreciate it.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
We do appreciate it I know you have a lot of great
insights to offer.
So I've told you before.
Our audience is mostlyfilmmakers trying to make their
first feature film.
Um, will you tell us a littlebit about if we're just going to
jump right in the story of?
Well, we watched thecounterfeit kid last night.
Um, had a good time on thecouch watching your movie and

(03:27):
eating some frozen bananas withchocolate and seeing Brando in
something different than what weworked with.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
It's weird, isn't it?
That was cool.
So, for the listeners sake, thelead in the Counterfeit Kid is
also the lead in the Loved andLost, which has yet to to be
publicly released, but isfinished and is really just down
the line.
So it is funny, because I'vespent the last three years of my
life seeing brando in a veryspecific role and I can hardly
imagine a more different rolethan our two films using the

(03:57):
same actor and it's.
It was fun it was fun to see.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
I felt the same way when I watched uh y'all's movie.
Same same exact reason, whereit's just like and and, because
in a sense I've spent more timewith the character jack than I
have brando himself, seeing youknow him in a completely
different role as a father.
Uh, it's just, that's a lot offun, but he's a great actor,

(04:22):
actor.
So of course he makes it work.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, and he was actually a new father when he
filmed that with us, so that was, that was cool too.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Anyway, getting back into that.
So so we've watched the movie,or we enjoyed it.
Take us back to where you firstdecided to make.
It came up with the idea howdid you make this become
something that goes from an ideato like a real thing that I can
just go by and watch?

Speaker 1 (04:47):
and even before.
Then, if I could, yeah, starteven earlier.
This is bad screenwriting.
We need to get into it.
And I'm starting where thestory really starts.
I want the backstory, the lorelike did you always know you
wanted to make feature films?

Speaker 3 (05:00):
oh yeah you know.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
And then let's get into how this first movie
started.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Well, I've always been a movie person.
That was part of the culture ofthe family that I grew up in.
We went to the movies everyweek pretty much, and it didn't
matter what the genre was I mean, my parents were smart about
what the topic was or what therating was, certainly but we

(05:25):
might go see a drama one week,we might go see a comedy the
next week, and we would alwaysdiscuss it on the drive home.
So there was always this kindof culture of art and movies and
discussing it beyond justhaving a good time.
That being said, it was alwaysa really good time and so I

(05:46):
always.
I've always loved movies, andbut it wasn't really until in
high school I got a job, ascliche as this is.
I got a job at our video store.
It was right when DVDs werecoming out, so it was the video
store was transitioning from VHStapes to DVDs, which really was
a great time, I think, infilmmaking in general.

(06:08):
But that opened my eyes to thepossibility that I could do
something with that, that itwouldn't just be a hobby that I
enjoy on Saturdays or Fridaynights.
And so, yeah, some of myfriends and I, we would make
these movies in high school andstarted kind of exploring that.

(06:29):
Then, uh, for film, and Idropped out because I got a job
working for a industrial company.
That uh was a lot of fun andand I was making more money than

(06:52):
a lot of my friends who hadgraduated film school and so um,
so yeah, I just I kind ofstayed there and but then I got
the bug to go back to school, uh, and so I went back where I met
you two um, so I don't know,that's kind of that's maybe even
more lore than I I don't wantto no, that's good it's good at
the industrial company?

Speaker 1 (07:13):
were you doing video related work or were you just?

Speaker 2 (07:15):
yeah, so I got hired.
It was funny because I gothired as a um.
I had made friends.
I made a short film that afriend of a friend saw, and the
director of all the industrialvideos.
It was a health and beautyinstructional video company, so
they would do these videos toteach people how to do certain

(07:36):
types of haircuts or certaintypes of.
We did a video about Botox anddermal fillers like just any
type of health or beauty thingyou could think of.
We did a video and the directorsaw my short film.
He became one of my firstmentors and he hired me as a PA,
which, as a member of ourchurch, one of my tasks was to

(07:58):
make coffee for everybody, andmy first day on set I've never
made coffee, um, and so I did mybest and everyone took a sip
and was just like what is this?
and I, well, I don't know so Igot kind of fired from being the
PA and I got reassigned to beone of the camera operators, so

(08:19):
I failed upward which wasawesome and uh, yeah, and so,
and, like I said, he, he was oneof my dear friends.
I made, god, I don't even knowhow many short films with him
over the years.
Still one of my.
He was one of the groomsmen inmy wedding, just one of my
absolute favorite people in theworld, um, and so, yeah, worked
with him that's awesome, that'sa great story.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, it's so funny because, like, I'm still bad at
that, like accommodating theneeds of people who are
different than me, not becauseI'm like trying to be mean, it's
just like sometimes you get inyour own head and you got plenty
of stuff to think about,especially like I was directing
a set and the art director comesup to me and he's like, hey,
man, I think everyone's lagginga little bit and I think if you

(09:02):
just got a big box of joe orsomething, we could get things
moving.
And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah,I guess.
So I mean, I just drink water,I guess.
But uh, yeah, who do I do?
And I was like, well, there'sthis kid from the priest quorum
who's pa-ing, you know, from ourchurch.
And I was like, do you want togo buy a ton of coffee?
And not, like, you know, Idon't know, don't tell your

(09:23):
parents, but probably thinks wesound really awkward and
backward and silly.
But that is just, it's just afunny thing.
It's a funny thing.
We're just so coffee ignorant.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, I, it's just not my thing.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
I don't, I don't like hot chocolate, so I mean I, I'm
just oh, that's where, that'swhere, and then you might
diverge a little bit, but yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, if you don't drink it, it's like how do I
even know if it's good, like youcan't taste it.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Taste it.
For me, that's funny.
Well, okay, so now I guess wetransition into what anna had
asked, which was like okay, sonow you, you go to byu, which is
where we met you.
What?
What happens there?
You graduate and thencounterfeit kid exists yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
So there, there, there is a little bit of a
backtrack.
In between.
I left the industrial companyum and started producing a tv
show out of wyoming called thebest of the west.
It was a hunting and kind ofoutdoor adventure reality series
and I was there for I thinkfive years, I years.
I did 100 episodes, 125episodes, a lot of episodes, and

(10:29):
while I was there we hadstarted to develop a project.
I don't have the poster behindme, but we started to develop a
project that was going to be anoutdoors type movie with a with
a killer bear, like basicallyJaws, but a grizzly bear, in
Wyoming rather than Amity Island, and it I mean the script got

(10:55):
written.
We had a lot of talks andnothing ever happened.
I went back to school and whileI was at BYU the opportunity to
revisit that and potentiallymake that movie came up again.
I still am really good friendswith my old boss at Best of the
West.
He was a big, big part ofCounterfeit Kid actually.

(11:15):
But Jeff Parkin put me in touchwith Ian Hawks, who you guys
have also worked with, and saidI think you two might be good to
you know kind of work on thisproject as writing partners,
cause I had gone to Jeff justfor advice about how to do this
bear movie.
And so Ian and I rewrote thebear movie.

(11:38):
We had a couple of pitchmeetings and things like that.
That just just, it just never,never.
We had geared up because it waskind of like, okay, well, this
is gonna happen.
And then it just like the floorkind of fell out from underneath
us and, um, that summer, um, Ijust had this idea that had been
kicking around in my head for along time uh, this western

(12:00):
movie.
And so I just sat down over thefourth of july weekend and
wrote the first draft ofcounterfeit kid, which was
called uh, at that point it wascalled the treasure of rust
Creek.
And, um, I took it to Ian.
I was I didn't tell him that Iwould, you know, he was my
writing partner at the time Ididn't tell him I'd been working
on this.
Um, I just, I called him onlike the 5th of July or 6th of

(12:22):
July and I was like, hey, I'mgoing to drop something off on
your front porch and just, youknow, let me know when you get
it.
And so that's all I.
I like being, you know, alittle bit of a showman there
and mysterious.
So I dropped off the script andhe read it and he was like Holy
cow, like this is amazing, likewhy, like where did this come
from?
I was like, well, we're, I'vegot this time that we had set

(12:45):
aside for the the bear movie andI don't want to waste that.
I know that this would be anincredibly quick turnaround time
, but I think we should do thiswestern instead, and so, um, so
yeah, that's kind of whathappened.
Ian and I then started to writeit.
Uh, he, he put a polish on it,I put a polish on it, he put
like we went back and forth acouple of times and finally

(13:08):
arrived at the, at the vision orthe version you see on screen.
Um, but the other kind of reallycool part of this and I don't
know if brando ever talked toyou guys about this, but, um, I
had worked with brando on twoseparate short films where I was
the DP.
I wasn't actually so in a senseI didn't really interact with

(13:29):
him all that much other thanfilming him.
I didn't really haveconversations, but I was just I
loved his performances, I lovedwhat he was bringing, and so the
whole time I wrote the movie, Ikind of was like in my mind
thinking like you know, whowould be good at this would be
Brando.
And the same day that I haddropped off the script at Ian's

(13:51):
house, I went to the gym, theProvo rec center and as my wife
and I were leaving with our kids, I Brando was coming in and so
I walked up to him.
I was like hey, I don't know ifyou even remember me, but
weirdly, I wrote something I'dlove for you to take a look at.
Like I wrote something with youin mind.
And he's like yeah, like great,send me the, send me the script

(14:14):
.
And I was probably prettyflattered.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
I know Lucky guy, I know Brando he's had multiple
scripts.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, I didn't know it until much later, but uh, I
didn't know this till we werefilming counterfeit kid.
Uh, we were sitting late onenight.
I took him to where he wasstaying and we were just kind of
having a conversation in thecar and he goes.
You know, that day that youapproached me in the gym, I was
literally in my car, about to goin the gym, thinking I don't
know if I want to keep doingthis acting thing Like I don't
know if this is.
You know, I need some sort of asign or I need some sort of you

(14:52):
know just something to kind ofgive me a shot in the arm.
And then he walked in and soagain when he, when he told me
that I just got goosebumps, Ithought like that's, I'm a I'm a
big, firm believer inProvidence.
And it certainly seemed to bethe case.
He came on board right away andhelped us with all the casting
and things like that, justhaving that anchor there where

(15:16):
we kind of knew well, we knowwe're going to go with Brando,
so who can we get?
That fits in well and build upthis cast as an ensemble rather
than just a showpiece for justBrando?

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
That's so fun.
Well, so I feel like as Iwatched the film and, first of
all, thanks for keeping Brandoin the game, because I think
we'll all benefit from that.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm sure he would have gotten another sign if it
hadn't have been me.
I don't know, Maybe but, hey,you know what you work.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
Yes, exactly, sign, if it hadn't been me, I don't
know, maybe, but but, uh, youknow what?
Yes, exactly, um, okay, thatthat brings up.
One of the things that Inoticed first of all was, well,
I will say, I really liked thescript.
I actually feel like, um, youknow, this is a, this is a indie
, scrappy movie, but even then,like a lot of those, the script
is just a mess right, and Ithink on this one I could feel,
I could feel ian hawks in thereactually I felt it too.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
I think I was like I can see some of ian's
fingerprints.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
But I also just thought that, like the overall
structure, I was like thiscentral character makes sense.
Um, the causality of the script, I thought, followed really
strong logic and it all feltvery motivated in that like.
Um, obviously it's a comedy andthere's like a little bit of
simplification to like the I'mgonna go out in the world and
make a name for myself.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
It's like what's your logic?

Speaker 1 (16:33):
it's like because I'm got to you know it's like, yeah
, that's fine, like that worksfor his like sort of the style
of movie it is, I think yeah,the sillier nature of the of the
thing.
But but then within that realm,like you know, you watch a movie
like what's up, doc, whereyou're like I don't know, I
guess barbara streisand'scharacter just is hungry the
whole movie.
I'm not really sure what hermotivations are, but like, but

(16:53):
the comedy and the rhythm andthe sort of looney tunesness of
that world functions.
So I think yours is kind of uh,it's not quite as absurd, but
it's in that that genre and Ifeel like, um, his character
works and then all these sidecharacters, um, by act three,
all their stakes and all theirum desires and plots just

(17:16):
converge in a way that felt Ididn't feel like there was a
wasted character in the movie.
That's good, yeah, and that'sthat's hard to do, like really
hard, and you shot your scriptand so I thought the script was
strong.
But I also noticed that therewas just a big cast and I'm like
I know you guys were doing this, you know scrappy, and so like
how on earth did you manage?
You had like bartenders and uhand and extras in a lot of

(17:41):
scenes, a lot of extras.
Yeah, there's horses and sticks,so there's some logistics where
I was going.
Okay, they're either pulling alot of favors or they're
bringing in some money, or both,or.
But you know, you guys pulledtogether a pretty big scope um.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
So I do like coaching , weekly coaching, with groups
of people who are doing thisprocess and right now a lot of
them are at this stage wherethey have a finished script,
they have the pitch, they haveit all planned out.
They're just trying to get thefinancing to make it real.
Some of them have actorsattached, have crew attached,
have even a proof of concept puttogether, but they're

(18:19):
struggling to get the financingthey need.
So, where you know, once youhave a finished script, an idea,
where did you guys take it fromthere to get the financing they
need?
So, where you know, once youhave a finished script and idea,
where did you guys take it fromthere to get the financing?
And if you're comfortablesharing what the budget was,
that would be helpful, but ifnot, I understand.
What did that part of theprocess look like?

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, well, and it is .
That's the part of this thatjust stinks, right, like, I mean
, it's the.
It's one of the few art formsthat just stinks, right, like, I
mean, um, it's the.
It's one of the few art formsthat just is so dang expensive.
I mean, maybe, maybe, if youwant to be a NASCAR racer or an
F car, f1 racer, like, the entryprice to buy the cars and the

(18:59):
parts to make that dream cometrue, that might be the only
thing I can think of.
Or, you know, if you want to bean astronaut, I guess you can't
really just do that on your own.
But, um, no, I.
So we, we funded the movieourselves.
Uh, my wife and I, uh, my wife,uh, is the producer of the film
and, um, I mean, I am not a huge.

(19:20):
Uh, modern day Hollywooddoesn't hold much for me.
I don't think.
I don't know, maybe maybethere's things about it that I'm
missing, but I, I liked the, um, the camaraderie and the
scrappy nature of makingindependent films, and I think
it's an under appreciated typeof film, um, so, all that being

(19:47):
said, I didn't approach this aswe're making a Hollywood movie.
I approached this as we're alocal band that's going to put
on a great show and you're goingto love it, but we're not.
We're not the Rolling Stones,right, like to use a non-film
example.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
And so what can we, what can we do with our
resources and with our abilities?
That would make that the bestrock band you've ever seen at a
local venue.
And so we?
We didn't my wife and I are notrich, we're not, you know,
millionaires, anything like that.
So our budget was pretty humble, and we were really upfront

(20:29):
with our actors and our crewright off the get-go.
I don't know that they knewthat when they came into the
casting sessions that we were asscrappy.
But the second we found actorsthat we liked.
I called them up and said wewant to offer you this role.
But just so you know, you willget paid, you will have, you'll

(20:51):
be fed, you'll be sheltered,you'll have, we'll pay for your
gas money driving up to WyomingAll of those needs will be met.
But you're not going to make aton of money off this movie
because we're funding it out ofour own pockets, because we're
funding it out of our ownpockets.
So we had that cash element,but then we had a lot of people

(21:13):
who, again Cody.
Wyoming is such an interestingplace.
Cody is where we filmed.
It's where I grew up, becausein some ways, it is the middle
of nowhere.
In other ways though it hasthis uh connection with.
Well, buffalo bill founded thetown and buffalo bill uh, at one
point in our nation and ourworld's history, was arguably

(21:37):
the most famous person on earth,and he was a showman, he was an
entertainer, he was a pioneerwith film, with uh, just all
sorts of great things, and Ifeel like that spirit has stayed
in cody.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
So if you say, I'm gonna make an album, I'm gonna
make a movie, I'm gonna do this,people get behind the arts
there in a major way, and so andI think there's a big
difference too, if I if youdon't mind me interrupting
between the way you just said itI'm gonna make a movie versus
I'm trying to make a movie likecan'm trying to make a movie
Like can you help me?

Speaker 1 (22:09):
I'm waiting for someone to give me a light that
is green.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
I think that when people approach it that way, it
feels very like they're notgoing to maybe get the same
support as when you just say I'mmaking a movie and then people
want to jump in and be part ofit 110%, even Napoleon Dynamite
right part of it, 110, evennapoleon dynamite right.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
that, like that whole town in idaho where they were,
like he jode has talked about,like everyone in um preston,
idaho.
Is that where it was shot?
I think so.
I think so, um, somewhere idaho, I think it was preston.
He's like everyone we knewabout the movie, like like
because we had like hijacked thewhole high school, like we
hijacked everybody, like and itwas like we'd call people and be
like we need a cow for themovie and they'd be like, oh,

(22:53):
someone can get you a cow.
You know, just the town madethat movie, almost you know, and
that's I mean.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
well, and the great thing about Wyoming is, even if
you're not a cowboy, youprobably have a cowboy hat, pair
of boots.
You've got something in yourcloset that you can give.
And so my my old boss, at bestof the West, or when I told him
I was going to, since he knewthe bear movie wasn't happening,
he said, well, if you needhorses, just let me know.
And so I said, well, sinceyou're offering, yes, we do need

(23:21):
horses.
And uh, and to your point, youknow, there's so many things too
that I were just I mean,miracles sounds heavy, I'm sure,
to some people, but I don'tthink so.
I think it's a pretty accurateway to describe it.
We had so many miracles, and oneof them was the day before we
started shooting with all thosehorses.

(23:41):
We had a horse wrangler thatwas going to come and they got
into a I mean, this is againjust one of the things you deal
with if you're in Wyoming gotinto a bar fight and fled the
state, and so now we have thesehorses and I'm comfortable
riding a horse.

(24:01):
I know how to do it.
I know how to saddle a horse.
I know how to do that.
I don't really know how todirect a horse on camera, I
don't know how to make sure thatother people are safe, and so
we just kept thinking, like whatare we going to do?
I mean, this is just.
This is horrible, because sothat first day that we film with
horses, every shot you see,it's someone holding the horses

(24:21):
by the reins, like they'restanding next to the horses,
they not actually riding them.
Um, and you know, we we had, wewould have these kind of after
action meetings in the eveningwhen we get back to base.
And I sat down.
My wife acted as the upm and soI sat down with her.
I sat down with our first ad,and which was cameron babcock,

(24:44):
uh, who you also know, and Ijust said I don't know what
we're gonna do about this horsething.
And my wife excused herselffrom the meeting.
She had a phone call and one ofour extras, who had been in one
of the scenes with a lot ofextras, called and just called
my wife and said hey, I justwant to say thank you for
letting me be a part of that.
I had a blast.
I don't know if you guys haveanything else I could.
I'm here for another threeweeks.

(25:05):
I'm between jobs, so if there'sanything, you guys, if you need
me to move gear, if you need meto do this, and Stacy was like,
well, no, we're pretty wellcovered.
But thank you, we'll keep youin mind and she goes.
Oh well, the one other thing.
I actually was a professionalhorse wrangler for a number of
years, so I don't know if youguys need help and was just like
holy cow like wow so that thatnext day virginia was on.

(25:27):
Virginia is the preacher, thewell, the, the woman preacher at
the end of the movie.
So she, we had her act as well.
She had done a stage play andand cody, and so we thought it'd
be fun to put her in.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Oh, but you know that was genius, so she extrad first
and then first that role, whichI thought was brilliant,
because you have this likeoverzealous, like murderous
disciple, I don't know what tocall her.
And she wants to hang everybody, and then at the very end in
the wedding you have a nicelittle insert of her, which I

(26:00):
assume is the extra.
No, no that's not.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
That's supposed to be her preacher character.
Just being a good person, sherepented and came back.
Okay, all right Cause.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
I thought that maybe that you guys had had her extra
first and I just went Whoaamazing Like you brought it all
together in the third act.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
but that was, that was a retroactive plan.
So, anyways, my point is isthat our, our cash budget was
much different than our in favorbudget.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
So um.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Cash budget was much different than our in favor
budget, so that it's hard to toput an exact value on what that
looks like.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
You know, that makes me really think about film
school, If you remember.
I don't know if this was yourexperience, but I felt like in
like classes where we were alldirecting and like making a lot
of stuff.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
There was this thing that we all ran into where
everyone went.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
I don't like telling actors like what to do, like I
feel so bad changing the topic.
No, I'm not, but he's.
He's saying like this in kind,um, this in kind budget and it's
like, uh, we sometimes are soscared to ask for things as
filmmakers and it's like yousaid, like she extra and was
like thank you.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Yeah, that was a great opportunity.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
That was so fun and that was an experience we had
with a restaurant in our film,where the owner is just like
we're just honored and we'relike we can't pay for the
location, can we shoot?
And she's like, yes, can weshoot during business hours
Because we don't have extras?
And she's like, yeah, we arejust honored, like she was just
delighted and she played alittle bit role and she had a

(27:30):
waiter who was like I have awaiter who's an actor, he's just
waiting tables here and hewould love to help you out.
Like great, we have a role fora waiter, you know, like it was
just so good.
And then and then they ended upfeeding our cast and crew for
free, like we were like we'reall gonna buy breakfast here,
we're gonna buy breakfast tolike show our appreciation for

(27:51):
this lady just going overboard.
She goes are you guys doneshooting?
And we're like, yeah, we'redone, we're all gonna.
She like cuts me off and saysorder whatever you guys want off
the menu, we're gonna feed youguys.
And I was like no, we weregonna pay for it, we were gonna
buy, you know.
And she goes no, it's our.
We're just honored that youwould use our restaurant in your
movie.
And it blows my mind that thereare people.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
That's Friends Table in Peachtree City.
It's Table in Peachtree City,go see it.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
We love that.
There's people who movies arecool.
You guys.
People can be brought onto amovie and not even get paid
sometimes, and if it's not agood fit they can say no.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
But they want to be a part of a good fit.
They can say no, but I think wealways feel that like that.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I'm asking other people to help me, but really
like you have a dream, I have adream our dreams complement each
other.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
That's what I'm saying.
Like you, reaching out tobrando was like an answer to his
prayer, and I think sometimeswe feel nervous to reach out and
ask people to be involvedwithout having, like, some
compensation, but sometimesthat's exactly what they're
trying to get off the ground toosome people actually like doing
this.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
They don't necessarily have to get paid
well, and I think that's one ofthe things.
That was um, two things there.
I I think that one of thenegatives, or maybe one of the
things that doesn't come acrossclearly in film school, is this
idea that it's not about well,it is about money.
Like I said, it stinks that itcosts so much money to do

(29:11):
anything in film, but there's alot of that, that finances are
not your only solution.
There's all these other ways toget around things, and I don't
mean get around it in a in aMachiavellian like, sneaky way.
I just mean there's's othersolutions that you can find and
can present themselves.
If you just take a breath, slowdown, it's just a movie.

(29:33):
How can we address this withoutforking out another 10 grand?
And so that's one thing.
And then another thing, kind ofto your point, one of the
things I love that you talkabout a lot and, to be honest,
you two are really the onlyother people I know who kind of
speak in this way, at least on aregular basis.
I don't know if you noticed atthe end of the movie, at the end

(29:53):
of the credits, I have 1Corinthians, 13.
Is 13 13?

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yes, it is, I saw it right under your film 85.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah, falcon 85 films .
And I put that there verypurposefully because I believe
in a charitable narrative and tome that extends to the
characters, that extends to thestorytelling.
Everyone in the movie has ashot at redemption, everyone has
some good quality, there'scharity there.
You're treating even maybe notthe bad guy in the movie.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
But, again.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's a little bit like a cartoon.
It's okay that he's a mustachetwirling villain, but everybody
used to be treated with charity.
And then that extends beyondwhere someone's going to give me
access to their property andlet me shoot on their property.
I can't afford.
We certainly couldn't have paidfor permits to all the stuff we

(30:46):
had to pick where we spent ourpermit money the waterfall, the
cave, things like that.
So we had to rely on people whosaid I have a ranch, you can
film on our ranch for free.
So in getting all those favorsfor us, it's important to me to
know that.
You know our second AC nowworks in Hollywood and was able

(31:09):
to use the counterfeit kid as acalling card as an entryway into
getting in.
I know that we had CameronBabcock was our first AD in all
the Wyoming stuff, in the Utahstuff.
We had Keith Grover as ourfirst AD and I know Keith has
told me that he was able to landsome other jobs, saying that he

(31:30):
had been a first AD on afeature film and I mean there's
plenty of people within themovie that I could go through
that have had that experienceand to me that's kind of that's
how it should work right.
Like a rising tide lifts allboats, and it's easy that the
director gets a lot of creditfor making a movie, but that
that's an unfortunate sideeffect.

(31:51):
Um, because really it's.
It's everyone who's in therewith their, you know, picks and
hammers trying to chisel thisthing out, and if they can get
something out of it thatelevates them.
That's that's really where thelike I know that sounds cheesy,
but like that's where the realreward to me of filmmaking comes
from is that you're, it's thiscommunity, and you're and you're

(32:11):
making the world a better place, even if it's just like the
movie isn't gonna no one's gonnawatch the counterfeit kid and
then all of a sudden, everythingin gaza and palestine.
Just, we figured it out like,thank you, you know that's not
going to happen, but two orthree people who worked on
counterfeit kid might have theirlife turned around and then
they'll able.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
They'll be able to lift and bless the lives of
other people and and to me,that's the most appealing thing
about making a movie I love thatand I love that you're pointing
out like all the good thathappens before the final product
even exists and just to make ithappen in the first place.
I also love how you talkedabout like what we need to make
it happen as a list of we needlocations, we need horses, we

(32:54):
need people.
You know a list of things thatyou need and I think so often
people budget or they hiresomeone to do their budget and
they outline all these thingsthey need and then translate
that all into money and thenthey start thinking we need
money and it becomes this focuson getting money when really
what you need is a horsewrangler or what you need is a
location, and you could get thatlots of different ways.

(33:16):
It could be with money, or itcould be with someone you know
or someone you meet, or someonewho knows, someone you know well
and I mean again, we're.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
I understand the need for unions and like the way
that Hollywood does a movie, Iget it, I do, but we are again,
we're not a Hollywood movie.
So the only really rule I hadon set is that I didn't want the
actors to have to carryanything.
But I carried gear to set everyday.
I helped clean up, I helpedmove stuff and I'm sorry, like I

(33:52):
know that in Hollywood and evenon some of the capstone films
or things that were worked on atschool, there was kind of that.
You use that Hollywood typehierarchy and I think that's
important to learn.
But there's also that componentof but that's.
We don't have that like that,that that luxury.
Here Everybody needs to becarrying a little bit more than

(34:14):
their own weight.
And you know, and again, likeone of the one of the great
moments for me is our the badguy in the movie, matt Mascaro.
He won best actor at the WildBunch Film Festival it's a
Western film festival in Tucsonand I certainly think he's an
amazing actor.
Like I will, I will always domy best to find him work or put

(34:37):
him in another movie.
But the reason why that alsomeant so much to me is that
multiple times on set he wouldgo to people and say how can
help, can I, can I?
You know, and and I'm notsaying that on a knock on
anybody who didn't, because hewas one of the actors, he had a
pass, he didn't need to, but hestill did it and he went, you
know, just put in that extra.

(34:57):
And so when he won that award,I was, I mean, it meant like
that award meant a lot to mebecause it was like, yeah, he,
he freaking, he earned that.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
You know, he deserves that his weight and beyond
behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, right I mean I'll throw in that.
On our film the similar thinghappened where, like I mean, we
had a train day where we neededa train and we had a plan for a
train which was sort ofmaterializing as we were
shooting and then it was likelast day to shoot, no train it
fell through everything was justa mess.

(35:30):
And I just remember that day,like brando holding c stands and
like hope, like helping us setup a green screen turned brando
into a sandbag and he had to,like, stand on the c stand
because he was basically holdinga green screen sale and it was
gonna get blown away because wewere right next to a lake.
And it was like we had to startpicking up green screen shots

(35:53):
because we were like we needassets with our actor, just in
case.
And in the end, uh, they sawthat we have some vfx in that
movie.
That's that have convincedeveryone like, and yeah, no
actor on none of our you knowtop build actual character we're
actually there, we're actuallythere during a scene that is
completely done with eithergreen screen or body doubling

(36:14):
and it's invisible.
The brando's basically standingon c stands that day.
He wasn't even acting, that day, he was just there.
How can I help?
And uh, he could probably tellthat we were all like oozing
stress, tears out of our eyesand stuff.
But like, yeah, so he wasn't.
He wasn't like and there's aSAG penalty for this labor.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Right.
Well, and I don't by pointingout Matt Mascaro, I don't want
to insinuate.
I mean all of our actors andcrew were amazing and definitely
put in way more effort.
I just single that out becauseI know that he, matt, picked a
day where some other peopledefinitely needed help and he
helped them on that day, whereit was kind of a good instinct
on his part.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
And that's kind of how indie filmmaking needs to be
approached, as opposed to and Ithink that's the beauty of it
too Like you say, we don't havethe luxury of having huge
departments and everyone intheir place.
But I've worked on those filmsnow that I have gotten into
acting.
In the last year or two I'vesat on like Disney films and
Netflix films, and I justthere's something I love about

(37:24):
indie films because they're sopassionate.
Everyone's's like we're in onthis and we want it to be
successful.
And on those big budget films,it's a job and everyone's there
to do their job and if theydon't have to do their job,
they're sitting around andthere's a lot of people sitting
around and people need jobs.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
To your point, matthew, like it's important.
Yeah, there's a reason forthese things.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, there's a reason it's not evil, but it's
not passionate like indie filmtends to be, and so there's
beauty to that too, that I Iwant to maintain well, and I
think too, the other thing isand this is where I think you
can make your movie sing alittle bit better not being a
hollywood movie is you have the,you have the.
The luxury you do have as anindie film is that you don't

(38:05):
have to only rely on filmies toget it done and the, you know,
in counterfeit kid we have he's,he's in this I.
I put him as an associateproducer.
Um, the day before we startedfilming, brando called me and
said hey, man, I got a littleproblem and I thought, oh god,
is he like not gonna make it thefirst day?
Or, like you know, because hewas still in utah?

(38:26):
And he said I had this friendwho wants to work on the movie
and that's why we recognized hisname and we're like we know
that name.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, he's one of brando's best friends and, um,
you know, I look, I appreciateit, but we've, we've literally
spent all of our food budget.
We have I don't think we've gotany more beds that we could
house him and he goes, no, no,he's got an rv, he's going to
drive up his camper, he's gotall his own food, he'll pay for

(38:56):
his gas.
And I was like, okay, well, ifthis guy wants to come up and
great.
And it was honestly one of thebest decisions that happened in
the movie, because Tyson, notbeing this indoctrinated
filmmaker where here's the allthe procedures you do, here's
what a C-stand is, that's notreally his thing, but he was the

(39:18):
type of guy where when you hada problem, he would go.
You know, we could probably fixthat if we had the carbureting
unit from a 1974 hot tub I havea 73, but I could maybe make the
73 and you'd just be sittingthere going like what, and he'd
run to his truck and he'd getthis part and he'd be able to
fix the light or whatever.
And just, he brought so much tothe movie with that creativity

(39:41):
that again, in a sense, wasn'tfilm-based but it it solved so
many things where the three ofus might say can we get a
c-stand to stretch out that far?
And he would say why?
I don't even know what ac-stand is.
I'm going to use this and itwill work.
Just like just having thatperson there who has a different
perspective and different styleof creativity.

(40:02):
It made all the difference inthe world and he saved our bacon
countless times so we starteddeveloping a movie with brando.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
That never happened, but tyson was in those
conversations because brando waslike I'm not going anywhere
without this guy aftercounterfeit kid, there's another
one out in the woods, yeah andhe was like it was in on
location, kind of yeah, he waslike he was so helpful we have
to bring him along again like 20film crippling problems.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
You know like and so and and his and it's fun too
because his relationship withbrando is so, uh, just sweet and
and funny.
You know the there's a scenewhere brando's in the river, and
it was.
It was really cold.
That's a tip don't film it in ariver in september in wyoming,
but brando was getting reallycold and, um, again, one of

(40:51):
those things that you find inthat I wasn't there, I was
talking to someone else but thecamera was still rolling and
watching this kind of behind thescenes moment that I had missed
on set.
Tyson comes up and kind ofwraps Brando in a blanket and
Brando's like, yeah, it's cold,and Tyson just goes oh, come on,
princess, you'll be okay and hestarts rubbing his back and

(41:12):
just I mean, but again, it'sjust this, like they're like
brothers, you know where theycan kind of razz on each other
and just have this love for eachother.
That was just really prettydang fun.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
But anyway, it's so awesome, that's great yeah, I
love that because you can, andso you can use your mom, you can
use your friends.
We had people you mentionedsomeone from church.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
We had lots of people from church who came out when
we didn't have sound like tohold a boom or say, um, every
penny mixing on some days,that's true, every penny we
spent, especially on martinwhite as a sound mixer, was well
, well, well spent.

(41:52):
But there were days we couldn'tget anyone and we had to just
get a boom to get something, andit wasn't a dialogue, heavy
scene or whatever.
That worked.
I just say that because I don'twant anyone going, I'll just
use a teenager to sound mix mywhole movie.
I was like no, I wouldn'tsuggest that.
But but there were days when wehad to do that, you know and,
and it worked out and again.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
This is where you can take a play out of the
hollywood playbook and becauseif you pay attention to the
credits of counterfeit kid,there's a lot of taggerts in the
movie and but is that thehollywood playbook is nepotism?
Yeah but there's astrategicness to my mom got her
degree in textiles and fabricsand materials so she knows how

(42:36):
to do costuming she has.
She worked at the buffalo billmuseum and restored uh clothes
from that time period.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
I actually was really impressed with the costumes on
it, yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
I know the costumes were awesome and she worked with
his.
My wife has a great eye fordesign, and so the two of them
working on the costumes, so itwasn't just like, oh, I think my
mom can do that.
It was like, well, no, sheactually has a background in
this.
It's not film, but it's thesame thing with two of our two,
two makeup artists.
One was my sister, one was mycousin, one is my cousin is a

(43:12):
professional makeup artist.
Uh, for, not for movies, butfor what would you call that
like in a salon?
um, and my sister is reallygifted at that, so I still
picked people who they may havemy name and so they'll do me
this favor because they'refamily, but they're also.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
They have this as their background, you know well
filming compasses, almosteverything at some point you
know that's anyone could be aresource in some way to some
film based on their experienceor their access or their
knowledge, like there's justendless resources there with the
people you know and theirskills that are unique.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah, I mean, we had, when I worked at best of the
West, one of the things that wehad to do is make these
commercials and um for thevarious products that we
sponsored and things like that.
And we had this guy who he wasuh, um, I don't know if he was
an Olympic, I don't know theterms, but he he was a marksman,
he had won gold medals in rifleshooting and, like, he was a

(44:13):
gun gun guy and he was agunsmith.
So he made, he built guns.
But he was one of those peoplethat I honestly feel like if I
got hired to make a Star Trekmovie or if they ever made a
master and commander part two,where you're on the ocean, even
though he's a gunsmith, if yousaid I need a period specific or

(44:36):
I need a spaceship part, hewould come back with something
amazing because he just had thatability within him.
He had this creativity and thisuh and this uh.
Just we were shooting thiscommercial and we we were
talking about adding someeffects and after effects, like
some fire and some sparks, andhe goes why don't we?
Just I have this stuff back inthe shop that could do that

(44:58):
right here and so we were likeokay, so we did it live and in
camera and it turned out amillion times better, you know.
So again, just you gotta bepaying attention to the world
around you and not get soinsular in your film world that
you're not able to see thosepeople, those opportunities and
those things that are around you.
That will enrich your movie,enrich your life and just

(45:20):
hopefully make everything betterfor everybody.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yeah, and you can even start a movie.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
I probably need to hear that honestly.
I think it's just reallyvaluable.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
It is really valuable and I think I think my students
really will benefit from thatidea of like you can actually,
instead of making a list of allthe resources you need and
looking for them, just make alist of all the resources you
have and make something withthat?
To start with, yeah, Althoughif you do have a script and
there are some resources youneed again, it's just it might

(45:49):
be closer to you than you thinkand the people around you?

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Definitely yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Well, everyone knows thousands of people you know.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
So, yeah, there's so much you can do when it's still
free.
You know, like writing a scriptis free other than a time
commitment.
That's just paper and pencil,really, and so you can think
through how are we going to geta train, how are we going to get
a horse, I mean, and if wecan't, let's think of a plan B
now instead of when we're on set.

(46:15):
You know so, there's lots thatyou can do when it's still a
little bit more economical.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
So since you brought in people who were not local to
Wyoming and I guess they droveout, you said you covered their
gas and then you housed them.
I'm curious about just some ofthe details of that process,
like when you put the castingcall, did you put a flat rate
for the project or did you justput a day rate or um?

(46:44):
And then when they did come out, how did you house them?
Did you rent a place or did youhave a place, or I'm just
curious about that.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah.
So we put out, um, uh, an ad.
I can't remember where we putit, uh, facebook marketplace or
something like that, or Utahactors I can't remember exactly
where, um, but it just said paid.
We didn't remember exactlywhere, um, but it just said paid
.
We didn't, we didn't specify,it just said paid.
And um, my father-in-law workedon the City Creek development.

(47:17):
He was one of the uh kind of uharchitects of that project and
there was an empty office and hegot permission for us to use
that as a casting location wherewe could say come in, we're
going to be right here in citycreek.
So brando came with me and, um,we had mariah, uh, now it's

(47:39):
well, I don't know, she married,uh, uh, sam hasken, hasken, yes
, mariah I might draw a blank onher name anyways mariah
came and filmed the, theauditions, and we we had our
first round of auditions therein salt lake.
Brando read, obviously, hispart and would read with actors,
and, um, you know, I had seenthat thing where, uh, george

(48:02):
lucas had done that with starwars, where he kind of tried
groups of actors rather thanjust one person, and I wanted to
just give that a shot, and sothat's kind of what we did.
And so then, once we found thepeople we wanted, we told them
here's what you're going to getpaid.
Um, it's a flat rate.
Um, and then in terms of housing, uh, I have a, an aunt who

(48:23):
lives in Cody, who is just oneof the most awesome people in
the world.
She's a great cook, and so Ihad actually approached her to
just do our craft servicesbecause I knew that if I gave
her a budget of money, she wouldbe able to say I can feed X
amount of people with X amountof dollars and I'll know how to
do that.
And then what she did is sheagain, she was not a film person

(48:46):
.
So there was lots of, I guess,film protocol that she did not.
She again, she was not a filmperson, so there was lots of, I
guess, film protocol that shedid not.
You know, she didn't run it byour our first ad every day on
the call sheet, you know what,what you were going to be having
for breakfast or whatever.
But she reached out to people inthe community and said hey,
you're going to make a meal forthis crew and you need to
deliver it to X location Likeshe paid them, or they were

(49:08):
volunteers or she, she, she usedthe money that we gave her and
then from there, you know, Ithink a lot of it was donated
Well, I know a lot of it wasdonated but so she took care of
all the food.
And then she also said I willhouse.
All of her kids are out of thehouse.
And so she said I've got allthese empty rooms, um, so people

(49:30):
can stay with me.
So they stayed with my aunt ather house, they stayed with my
parents at my parents' house,and then I have an uncle and
aunt who, uh, they live inMichigan.
At the time they were living inMichigan during part of the
year, so their house was emptyin Michigan at the time.
They were living in Michiganduring part of the year, so
their house was empty.
And so we had kind of thesethree different locations and

(49:51):
you know that worked out reallywell.
And again, one of my favoritekind of moments from that is one
day Brando, he kind of had itjust as the main star.
His schedule was probably theworst because he had to be
spread out the most, and sothere was one Tuesday or
whatever it was, where he wasn'ton set and my, he just went up
to my aunt and he's like, well,what are you doing today?

(50:12):
And she said, well, I got to goshopping.
So he went and shopped with myaunt all day to buy food and the
two of them hung out and, youknow, just came back thick as
thieves.
But that's kind of how wehandled that and and that that
one is a hard ask that puts aburden on people to let you to
ask for use of their house.

(50:32):
Um, so, you know, there'scertainly people that, um, again
, I think with our cast weweren't worried about it because
I knew all of them weren'tgonna.
Uh, they were going to berespectful, they weren't going
to be slobs, they weren't goingto, they were going to be
respectful, they weren't goingto be slobs, they weren't going
to.
You know, well, this is my room, I can do whatever I want.
They understood that they werestaying at someone's house and

(50:55):
and they took care of the place.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Well, that's really, really cool.
I think it's a great example.
I think if there is someonewith the that particular
resource, I would stress heavilythat you take advantage of it,
because I mean within theethical boundaries yeah, exactly
yeah, you guys did, and uh,because that was probably our

(51:19):
biggest expense on our film wastravel and housing.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
It was like well, that just like slashed it.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
I mean, we were real micro, so like it and we didn't
even cover food.
Honestly, we just said we hadno craft services.
Get your own food, but yeahprobably the one of the bigger
mistakes we ever made was justbeing like, yeah, we'll just
figure out food as we go.
And brando was like that's allright, because I kind of don't
like eating on film sets anyway.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
So he had a protocol anyway, and so he was like that
night we went to kroger andeveryone got their shopping and
they had a kitchen in the housethat we had rented and we had
one car for the whole cast andcrew because it was our one car
for our family, our little jeep.
It's like a five-seater, youknow, or it was a five-seater.

(52:02):
We have a van now, but we'vewe've stepped up lugged all the
equipment around.
That was how everyone was ableto get anywhere they would just
share the jeep yeah, that's justthe same we had the same back
on that yeah

Speaker 2 (52:18):
I mean and to me, I guess, because I would have no
problem doing that if it was a,if it was with a project that I
liked, if it was with peoplethat I enjoyed, cause that's one
of my big things is, I enjoythe people that I'm with almost
more than whatever the story orthe project is.

(52:38):
And, um, I would be willing tosleep at someone's aunt's house
if it was for a fun project thatlooked like it was going to be
a good time, and so that's.
I have a hard time asking formoney.
I don't especially with film, Ijust it's.
It's hard for me on a personallevel.

(52:59):
It's a lot easier for me to askhey, can I crash at your place,
or can I, can I house thisperson you've never met?

Speaker 3 (53:07):
Yeah, someone with a spare room or a spare bed, or
yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Knows about horses?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
That's funny.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
It is an easier ask.
I love that that you broughtthat up.
But then you did put some ofyour own money in.
So was this money that yousaved up for a while, or was it
just kind of, as you went youhad expenses that you covered?

Speaker 2 (53:24):
It's it was.
It was dipping into our savingsum, which you know again allows
for a freedom where you're notworried about being in debt to
someone else.
But it's scary because it'syour filmmakers, don't?
We don't get a nest egg.
You know there's no, there's nogreat retirement plans for
filmmakers, or you know 401kstype things and so that kind of

(53:47):
stinks.
You know that was, that was ahard, hard thing to do.
So why'd you do it?
Because, again, I don't.
I wanted to make the movie and I, you know I would.
I I'm, I'm now old enough thatit's just like.

(54:07):
You know, if I don't do it now,I'm not going to wait for
someone to call me and ask me todirect a movie.
If I had a nickel for everytime, there was a sure thing.
Hey, I put your name in thishat, you're going to get asked
to be this director or whatever.
I would never have to fundanother movie again.
I mean, everyone's got thisproject that this is going to be
it.
This is going to be the one.
No, it's not.
You have to go and do ityourself and don't ask for

(54:31):
permission to do it.
You should ask for permissionto film at certain locations and
always abide traffic and safetylaws, things like that.
But it just seemed like I don'twant my kids, whatever they
decide to do, to feel like theyhave to wait for anybody to tell
them what they can do.
I want them to sit to look atthings and say, if I want to do

(54:53):
this, I can make it happen, andI might have to do a weird route
to get to it, but I'm going to,I'm going to do it.
So I think it was a little bitof an investment in that it was
an investment just to to if itdoesn't work well then at least
I know, I tried, at least.

(55:13):
I know uh, like, in a sense,it'll be money well spent in
that direction.
Yeah and so, yeah, and that andthat's the other thing, though,
too that I, I think is aninteresting part of the film
school experience that maybedoesn't get translated as well.
You, you, you should, oh,wherever your money is coming
from, you need to do a betterjob at respecting where that
money comes from.
And, um, if someone gives you aloaf of bread to feed your crew

(55:36):
, if someone gives you a house,if someone gives you 10 bucks,
you need to treat that as prettysacred, because that's, that's
an incredible thing, a bit ofgenerosity.
And you know, I, when you'respending your own money, you see
that a little more clearly, youhave a little bit more respect
for it, because you know wellthat $10 is going to be $10,

(56:00):
that I'm not going to have topay my mortgage or my car
payment or whatever it is, andso, yeah, just being grateful
and respectful for those things,because it's a lot.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Well and responsible which makes everything go
farther and be better, both inyour relationship account and
your monetary situation.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Part of that respect is also, just when you are on
someone's set, realizing thatthere's a lot of sacrifice that
made it possible for you to behere and an attitude of like I'm
grateful to be here.
I'm fine to stay in someone'saunt's house, like you know.
Those are the people I like tolook for to work with, who are
willing to appreciate what I cangive, even if it's not perfect

(56:46):
or super professional.
Yeah, and then you mentioned soyour wife helped you make the
film and she was a UPM on set.
You guys put your money intogether to help finance it and
you have kids.
So how did you guys negotiatethe time it would take to film

(57:07):
and for both of you to be on setand your kids to be taken care
of?

Speaker 1 (57:10):
that's just a lot that's astonishing, because
everyone always says, oh, youguys are so lucky because you're
in film together, but your wifeis not a career filmmaker, to
my understanding.
No, she's a nurse you justsupport.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
So that's just remarkable.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
So like, yeah, let's get into the family side of this
, like because everyone has todeal with this at some point,
where it's like what am I goingto do with my?

Speaker 3 (57:28):
kids, well, and you have a day job right.
So it's like what do I do withmy day job?
How do I shoot this?

Speaker 1 (57:32):
How do I make?

Speaker 2 (57:33):
this.
Yeah, yeah, well, I mean,luckily she had dated me when I
was working at the industrialcompany she had uh, we were
married by the time I worked forbest of the West, so she was
used to a lot of filmy typethings.
Where I'm going to be on settoday.
I'm going to be gone from 5.00AM till 10.00 PM.

(57:54):
You know, she, she knows enoughabout it to be dangerous, I
guess, and, um, so a lot of itgoing in.

(58:26):
It wasn't like she wascompletely coming in without any
knowledge or understanding, um,and and she, so what, she's a
nurse but she does, uh, shereviews medical files.
So she's not like in scrubs,she, she has a desk job.
Um, she worked at primarychildren's for a number of years
as the kidney transplantcoordinator.
So if y'all's kid had a kidneyproblem she would facilitate the
visits, the appointments, whatmedications your kid need to be
on, stuff like that.
So she's very logical in herapproach.
And so having her kind of breakdown the script and say we can
film this on this day, we can dothis, uh way better than I

(58:46):
would ever be at that, um, I, Iam not.
I'm horrible at that type ofstuff.
So there's that where it was aneasy fit in terms of the crew.
Um, also to give her morecredit than she.
Probably one thing that drivesme crazy about uh, both her and
my sister because they weren'tfilmies, I think sometimes they
were worried about overstepping,and so we were filming one day

(59:09):
and brando had a little bit ofuh powder from the there's in
the cave.
We were in just this finepowder and he had some on his
hat and I didn't notice it justbecause of the angle where I was
standing.
And finally, after like fourtakes, stacy came up to me and
was like hey, you know his hathas.
I was like, why did?
Like?
You know she's?
Like why do you want to stop?

(59:29):
And I'm like no, you can cometalk to me, you're my wife.
Like come tell me that he's gota smudge.
Um, but she's, she's very smartcreatively when it comes to
like blocking and things likethat, even though she probably
wouldn't say that about herself,but she has those skills.
Being in Cody, being in myhometown, we had family, and so

(59:51):
I have an aunt who actuallylives in Billings, montana,
which is an hour and a halfnorth of Cody.
All of her kids were out of thehouse.
They're married and off doingtheir own thing.
And so we said said, can youwatch?
At the time we just had our twoboys.
We said, can you watch them?
And so she took our boys forthe two weeks of principal

(01:00:15):
photography in Wyoming and shecame down.
They that's.
My one regret is that my kidsare not in the movie at all.
Harrison, our oldest, did filma couple inserts.
I let him run the camera, so hedid do that.
Lincoln, our middle kid, hehelped build one of the sets and

(01:00:38):
he also consulted with me on alot of the edits.
So they have their fingerprintsin.
There is my point.
But they were pretty much withmy aunt the whole time and again
, that was just.
That's just luck that we have ahuge family that lives in the
area yeah but um that's kind ofhow we balance the planet that

(01:00:59):
way too and

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
um so was that over a summer break.
I love that you.
You wanted to pull your.
Yeah, that is sweet I think I Ishould probably be more active
and getting my kids to help onthe back end and letting them
help?

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
yes, well, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
I mean, let me ask you, that's one thing I want to
ask you is what, how difficultor what were the challenges of
directing your kids as actors?
I mean what, what was that like?

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
I would never do it again, honestly, like it's angry
because everyone came up atlike ziff, where we just
premiered the film, and they'rejust it's not angry, I just
think it's funny your kids areamazing actors.
They're incredible actors andI'm like.
First of all, can you guys allremember that anna directed this
movie?
like that's, it's fine, that'slike but, like, honestly, like

(01:01:48):
everyone seems to like there is,there is a gender problem with
like I dp'd it, I directed itand I didn't, I produced it, I
mean, and I, um, I helped writeit.
So I mean, I feel a lot ofownership, I hope everyone does.
Who worked on it?
Yeah, um, but then people wouldcome up to me and talk to me
about my film and I'm just like,well, you guys remember, like
anna co-wrote and directed thisfilm and that all the good good,

(01:02:09):
acting as if you can call afive-year-old on camera an actor
, um, because this is a craftyou know like they did a good
job they did do a good job.
It only like brando.
There's one little tiny littlescene where marshall playing eli
has to run in the door and saythis is tricky, script wise.
We were like how the heck isthis gonna look?

(01:02:31):
I lost my sister.
We gotta go find her.
Okay, how are we gonna do this?
We did that, I think we.
We knew we were gonna have toshoot a different angle every
take because we were going tohave.
The sun was setting, so cut thatthing together because we knew
that it was gonna be really hardfor marshall to deliver these
lines, which were sort ofambiguous, and it was a weird

(01:02:53):
tricky scene.
I think we shot well over 19takes on that and brando said I
don't think I've ever shotanything that many times over
and over, like that and and thescene works.
But don't let anyone think thatmy little boy is this kid that
you're gonna hire like brad pitt, and it's like we have two

(01:03:16):
takes.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
You better kill it, because these aren't crafts
people I mean he laid down inthe middle of the pathway when
we had our whole cast and crewand we're shooting and all he
had to do was like walk or rundown the path.
I don't know mark or somethingno lines or anything and he just
laid down he's like I'm tired,I don't want to do it anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
And we were, you know , I tried to kind of like bribe
him and encourage him and likeyou know, just like we've got
all these people here, we justneed one more shot like when you
have that much pressure and youactually are like trying to
parent but you're also trying tomake something with other
people's money and you're like Iwill give you whatever you want
.
Child like, please do you wantto try alcohol today?

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
like just you know, we become terrible humans, and
then but it didn't work and hewas just like he was done, so we
were done.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
We had to send everyone home we had days where
we literally sent everyone homebecause I and they are not.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
Yeah so I'm fine with non-actors.
I actually think, especiallywith children.
I don't like working withactors.
I like to, because they justcan't be good yet, you know.
And so you just find a kid thatfeels right for the role.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
In our case, we wrote it around our kids because
those were our resources, right,yeah, we we've got them, we
might as well use them taikawaititi talks about hemsworth
and him both having their kidson thor 4 and he's just like,
yeah, it was um, it was justcheaper we thought it would be
cheaper.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
You know like, instead of getting child care,
we'll just put them in the movieand we'll watch them while we
make a movie worst great idea,right, um?
And so anyway, we.
They were not natural on camera, um, but I think normally with
a non-actor you just want totest, do camera tests and make
sure that they can show up, thatthey can say a line or two that

(01:05:04):
they don't like, have any weirdquirks or looking at the camera
.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
My kids had all those things, all sorts of quirks,
and they would look at thecamera and they would bite their
cheek weird things with theirmouth and so I think the big
strategy that helped them feelso good in the film if I say so
on behalf of my wife was thatshe had the wherewithal to
direct the scenes in a way thatshe put the burden on the

(01:05:29):
professional actors to lead usinto the scene, literally
including me, camera operating.
Usually, the actor would leadus into the space where the
child already was, and then theactor would have the burden of
leading the child through thescene and getting what we needed
, while I covered the scene andgot what we needed, and so it
was a very improvisationalsituation, but we were able to

(01:05:51):
tell the story that way withoutthe children going, you know,
being kind of like we did aslittle acting from them as
possible.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
So a lot of that was sort of I mean, people say that
we improv this, but really onlythe scenes with the children
were kind of improv'd.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Everything was scripted.
The children were improvvingmore than the adult actors,
although the adult actors it wasscripted, even when we improv'd
.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
But we would help the adults, say like, try to make
this happen as much as we canLead them into the script, you
know.
Yeah, but they didn't reallyhave scripted lines very often
even improvisation itself is acraft.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
So I have to say that the adult actors were improv
improvising within theboundaries of a story, whereas
the children were improvisingwithin the boundaries of reality
, like they were just.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Yeah yeah, you know what I mean, but I feel like
that, I feel like that comesacross quite.
I mean, again, there's severalscenes in there where it did
feel like yeah, I know exactlywhat that feels like when
they're doing the bath time orwhen they're.
You know those little momentswhere I don't even know how you
would script that really yeahhave it.
You know what I mean.
Like I mean, unless you somehowdid have a five-year-old Marlon

(01:06:55):
Brando who, just like I,shouldn't pick Marlon Brando,
because that gets confusing withyeah but, but you know what I
mean?

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
yeah, and I think that we, um, whenever I make a
film that has children, I'llprobably just like not script as
much as possible and just addthem in the scene, like they're
just another thing that theactors are working with in the
scene.
But we did tell them, like thisis a game, we're playing a game
and in the game, brando is yourdaddy and scout is your mommy

(01:07:23):
and you guys are, you know, havedifferent names, and so it was
just this game.
We were playing with them for afew weeks and so they could
understand like we're steppinginto play and kids are good at
that, so they could kind of dothat.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
So that they would respond to the names.
That was actually my biggestconcern.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
Like, if he says eli, will marshall turn his head,
you know like right, and he didyeah, and will he call them mom
and dad?

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
and like they did really well they did great way
better than I thought they would.
It was.
It was a, it wasn't a.
I wasn't worried about theactors, I was worried about the
kids yeah even just cooperating,which they didn't cooperate in
other ways, but that wasn't thethat.
They were pretty good at that.
They're good at role playing,playing no, they did a great job
, you did a good job directingthem.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
Sorry that was a lot that was a candid, but yeah,
it's a good question.
It's something we've thought alot about, clearly, but I wanted
to ask you some more things.
So now your film is done, Ifeel like you know just to
finish out the story of makingthis film, and I'm sure there's
so many details that we don'teven have time to include- yeah.

(01:08:27):
But the film is done, it'sreleased.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
You can go see it on Prime and Fandango, right?
I don't know if it's onFandango, prime, vudu, comcast,
xfinity, spectrum, cox, maybe.
Okay, and it's iTunes soon, butI don't know when it's gonna.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
I don't want to be on itunes yeah, yeah, that one's
kind of sooner, sooner or laterum, so are you working with a
distributor?
Like, how are you feeling aboutum that part of the process do
you feel good about, likefinancially?
Do you think you're going tomake your money back, or how
long do you think that will take?
Um, did you do deferred paywith anybody on the set?

(01:09:07):
Um, those are things I'mwondering about.
And then I mean you said youpulled out of your own savings,
but I know sometimes filmmakersdo loans.
I don't know if that wassomething you guys considered or
did, but I'd love to hear kindof the financial back end now
and I know it's early like it isearly to really know, but

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
So, um, we did, uh, we played at a whole bunch of
festivals and again, festivalsare definitely a mixed bag, um,
but again we were.
We tried to be strategic withthe ones that we entered into
because, because I am wherever Ilive, I'm still going to be
based out of Cody Wyoming interms of making movies.
Because of that, we entered moreWestern film festivals or film
festivals that were friendly toWesterns, because the networking

(01:09:55):
that could happen there wouldpotentially benefit a future
Western movie.
Right, we got into the WyomingInternational Film Festival,
which was kind of the only onethat I was like I really want to
get into that one because it'sWyoming, and we did really,
really well at that filmfestival, which is probably no

(01:10:15):
surprise, although I will saythere was every movie that I I
went to probably threeprogramming blocks, and every
movie there was justmind-blowingly amazing.
They had a bunch of filmmakersfrom Spain who came and showed
their movies and I mean justholy cow, really amazing films.

(01:10:37):
But we had started to reach outto some distributors, some
agents, things like that, andthen, while we were in that
process, we actually got a phonecall from this company, porter
craig, and they actually had ascout at the wyoming film
festival and I was kind of likereally like that think at small

(01:10:58):
film festivals, but they do yeahthey do, and and and, talking
with the, um, the, the peoplethere, they were saying look,
sundance has plenty of peoplewho are there.
The con film festival has plentyof people that are there.
We go to these smaller onesbecause we can find the diamonds
in the rough and we can findthings that you know aren't

(01:11:19):
going to play at these Sundancefilm festivals.
So they kind of approached usand made us a uh, an offer and,
um, you know, again, with, withmy first movie not the
counterfeit kid, we, we had agreat, uh, it got distributed
through lion's gate but, um, youknow, I never, I never really

(01:11:40):
saw any money off of that.
I don't know how well it did.
Uh, I can, I can certainly readthe reviews and know how well
it did, but but, uh, financiallyI don't know that it did.
It made a splash, um, so thereis kind of that flying blind
aspect to it.
But Porter Craig, uh, we, we dida big phone call with them and

(01:12:03):
they had actually produced adocumentary that I really,
really loved about Roger Corman,the filmmaker, and so I kind of
had heard of them, I knew ofthem, I'd seen that movie and
everything that they did justfelt very transparent, felt very
upfront.
There was none of that.
Like this is going to be thenext Napoleon dynamite and

(01:12:25):
you're use your ticket to thestars none of that.
It felt very much like this isa great indie adventure film
that we think we can make somewaves with, uh, and so that you
can get another movie going.
Not, you don't need to worryabout your financial future.
This is gonna provide for youand your family for generations

(01:12:45):
to come.
There was none of that and Iappreciated that fact that it
didn't feel like they were justyou know.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
Lying to get your Telling me what I wanted to hear
.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Yeah, they felt very realistic and transparent about
it and they've been fabulous.
I still have my day job inCalifornia and when I've gone
out there, I've gone out there.
I've gone to dinner with them acouple of times and we'll email
them and talk to them aboutdifferent things and I've really
just had a great experienceworking with them.
It is still too early to reallyknow what the finances are

(01:13:17):
going to look like in terms ofwhat we'll make, so I don't, I
don't know.
I mean, that is, that is thescary part about it.
You know, and and I'd be happyto tell you all when I have some
numbers to report but um, youprobably made like five or six
bucks last night.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Hey, I'll take it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
Thank you.
Yeah, so was it kind of arevenue shared deal or what kind
of a deal without?
You don't have to be superspecific, but what kind of deal
did you make?

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
So that at the, at the and I might be getting the
exact figures incorrect, Causeit's been a while since I looked
at the contract, but right nowthere's there's a like a 60, 40
split until they reach their cap, which is pretty, I have to say
, pretty modest.
Once they reach their cap, andso we're still getting money off

(01:14:10):
every download right from jump,we're making money at the same
time and then, once they reachtheir cap, then it becomes 80-20
or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:21):
Like it reverses or they get more.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
We get 80, they get 20.
Um, and I think it's a seven or10 year contract with an option
to renew and an option to, ifthey were to find someone, like
they're going to present it atthe con film festival, if they
found someone there who wantedto buy it outright for some
miracle experience.

(01:14:43):
That that's in there where wecan do whatever.
The other thing they allowed usto do which I really
appreciated is they allowed usto keep a bunch of the other
rights where, like, we have asequel to the counterfeit kid
that's in radio drama format,and like we have the rights to
do that.
If we wanted to sell shirts, ifwe wanted to sell cowboy hats,

(01:15:07):
that have the I mean, I don'tknow what types of things we
could think of, but we have therights to do all of that stuff.
Um, they even allowed me to doa screening, um, where we were
able to take home the money fromthat screening, and so to me,
that was a really just, generousand really awesome part of it.

(01:15:27):
Where they were, they, theyseemed to be interested in
taking care of us yeah, that'sgood.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
That's good to hear, that's good.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
Yeah, I think the biggest, the biggest red flag is
not necessarily always in thedetails of the deal.
It's more is this personflexible and is this person
honest?
Like just there's so manydishonest, predatory
distributors that people talknightmares about and so, um,
that's something that we're inthe middle of with our film.

(01:15:55):
We have not signed and we havecalled and done our due
diligence with every distributorwe've talked to, with
filmmakers who have worked withthose distributors, like what
was your experience?
How much should you expect?
What was your movie like?
Can we see the trailer for yourfilm?
Tell us about the experienceyou know, like really asking
deep questions and so it's.
It's lucky for what was thecompany you're working with?

(01:16:15):
Porter?

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
they're porter and craig porter and craig media or
film and media luckily forporter and craig.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
You had only good things to say on the podcast, so
that's good I mean the other.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
I will say the other big thing, and this goes back to
what we were talking about withjust the production side of
things.
Um, plenty of the distributorsthat we talked to were upfront,
friendly, great people, um, butthey kind of just.
They seemed that it was kind ofjust like yeah, I think, I
think we can make this work.
Or they, they had kind of just.
They seemed that it was kind ofjust like yeah, I think we can
make this work.
They had kind of not alackadaisical approach, but

(01:16:49):
Porter and Craig were likebringing up scenes from the
movie that they liked andtalking about it in a way that
felt like you didn't just watchthe trailer and oh, there's a
priest right, like it's like no,you actually know the story arc
that the priest goes through inCounterfeit Kid, like they had
so many things like that thatjust felt.
And again, there is just kindof a gut level thing, because

(01:17:12):
that's again where some of thesepodcasts I don't.
I don't put a lot of stock intothem because everything is so
different.
You know, our your movie and mymovie are completely different
genres, so the marketability ofthem is going to be approached
differently.
So my experience might notreally translate.
You know, my first movie was ahorror film and so that's a

(01:17:32):
completely and there was still alot of direct to DVD type
things at that time.
That's completely differentthan anything that I've worked
on since then, and so myexperience.
Then there's maybe principlesthat I could take from that and
apply them, but it's not thesame thing.
And so again, sometimes youhear these people say like, oh,
you just got to find an agentwho will do this and it's like

(01:17:53):
do you like, is that gonna like?
That's not going to sell yourmovie the same way that I don't
know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:01):
Yeah, yeah, you have to find something specific to
you and that works to you, andand it helps when people
actually know your film and it'snot just another one on the
list.
It's like I like this movie.
I want it to do well, not justfinancially for myself, but like
because I am passionate aboutthe movie.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
And creatively.
That gives us a lot of leeway,I think, when we actually
understand that principle,because I've had distributors to
tell us like if you just donethis or this with your movie,
you could have made a lot ofmoney with it.
And I'm like you could havemade a lot of money with it
because you do a certain thing,a certain way with a certain
kind of movie.
It's like if you would havejust made it more like what we
sell.
But it's like they have like avery narrow view sometimes and

(01:18:38):
so you have to find the rightdistributor.
That's like we know just how tomarket this.
We.
We know, we know there's anaudience for this week.
We have that audience in ouremail list or in our social
followers.
Like we know these people want,we know who wants what you've
made.
And so and even some people.
You have to do the work to findthose people yourself as a
filmmaker.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
So Well, and we had, we had one guy and I I I feel
horrible that I can't rememberhis name Kind of early on that
he works in film distribution inLA and he's a really good
friend of a friend and hewatched the movie, loved the
movie, but he's like the moviesthat I distribute are like Saw

(01:19:18):
or like you know, they're likethese.
They're not even horror movies,they're like super graphic,
gore, super violent, super.
Like you know, ours is afamily-friendly western, like
it's, it's, and.
But I appreciate the fact thathe's like I can't do anything
for you, like all of myconnections are you make a
monster movie or someone's headgets bitten off and there's
blood everywhere, call me.

(01:19:39):
But he's like you know I can't.
But I appreciate the fact thathe was very upfront about that.
And again, porter and Craig havejust been amazing where they,
you know, they've allowed us tobe part of these decisions as
well, where we have a coupleother movie posters that we have
designed, besides the one yousee behind me, that are designed

(01:20:02):
for different approaches toselling the movie, and they
allowed us to be part of that.
They't just do and that's astupid thing.
I I don't have any ego aboutthe poster really.
But I appreciate the fact thatthey incorporated us in that
decision making process yeah andallowed us to be part of that.
You know, and it made sense.
It made sense why they weredoing what they were doing.
Um, it's, it's, it's a business, it's not just art.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
So it's both, though.
Yeah, so when we cancollaborate together lets
everything have a little moreintegrity.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
When, when you don't shove someone off and say, shut
up, we'll take it from here.

Speaker 3 (01:20:36):
I'm gonna do this part.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
yeah, on both ends.
Like sometimes filmmakers arelike don't touch it and it's
like okay, but like communicatewith us.
It's like we can't figure thisout together so that we can
represent it, cause if youmisrepresent it, even if it's
good business sense, badbusiness sense, because then
people aren't getting whatthey're expecting and that's
really bad, and so so yeah, Well, thank you so much, Matt, and I

(01:20:58):
hate to wrap this up, but weare pretty tight on time now,
but I really appreciate all ofyour insights and and just want
to leave with two more questionsthat are small.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
One is are there any last like tips or advice that
you want to give to filmmakerswho are just starting out from
what you learned or things youwould have done differently?
And then two is just anyinformation you want to share
about what's next or where to gosee your movie.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me is and
again, I'm horrible with names,but one thing that I really
loved the filmmaker is itRebecca Thomas?
Yeah, I was with you guys, Iguess actually when I saw her
speak at the Writers Conference,but one thing she said that I

(01:21:49):
loved and I just thought wassome of the best advice I've
ever heard is there's alreadypeople in LA and New York making
LA and New York stories.
Find something that's uniqueabout where you are and make
that story because people wantto see again.
We always talk about diversityin film and I'm a big advocate

(01:22:10):
for that.
I think that's great, but itstill tends to be let's just
talk about diversity.
With people who live in LA,it's like, well, but there's the
whole world where you havethese things, and so I, you know
you have these things, and so I, you know I'm all about making
a movie in Georgia, in Wyoming,in wherever you're from.

(01:22:36):
Find something that you cantell a story about there and
lean into that.
Don't try to be an LA moviethat's filming in Cody Wyoming,
because it's just it's not goingto work or it's going to take a
lot more effort that you could.
That would be better putelsewhere.

Speaker 3 (01:22:47):
Yeah, it's a lost opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
Yeah, yeah, and celebrate the diversity that you
have in that way, you know.
So that would be, I guess, kindof my big advice is just to rip
off her and I think that wassome of the best advice I've
ever heard.
And then, yeah, in terms of themovie, that was some of the
best advice I've ever heard.
And then, yeah, in terms of themovie, we have a couple more
scripts that we're trying to usethis to facilitate.

(01:23:11):
We have one about Buffalo billand again, this is kind of my.
I don't have any dark, grittyfilm inside of me.
I think that there's plenty ofWesterns that are currently
available that are kind offulfilling that need or that
want economically.
I like more popcorn and family.

(01:23:33):
When I say family, I don't meanit's made for little kids, I
just.
I think one of the great thingsabout when I grew up is that
all the movies had thatcomponent to them where you
could take.
Even if it was an adult movie,it was safe for a kid to watch.
If that component to them,where you could take, even if it
was an adult movie, it was safefor a kid to watch.
If that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:23:48):
Yeah, if they walk in , you're not like, oh no, don't.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
Right, and so that's the type of thing.
So all the Westerns that I haveare kind of more in that vein
of just, you know, hopefullyapproachable from anybody who
wants to just have a good timeand and again have that.
I hope there's some things incounterfeit kid that that people
come away and and uh thinkthat's a great little message or
that they can relate to one ofthe characters and you know one

(01:24:13):
of the one of the.
Again, one of the bestexperiences was we did a test
screening and one of my bestfriends is a marine.
Uh, he's just tough as nails,uh.
But the character he related tothe most was Jerry the priest,
and the arc that the priest hasof kind of that little
redemption that spoke to my.

(01:24:34):
I thought he would like kind ofsome of the more of the you
know fisticuffs and the peoplewho are a little bit more fiery,
and he really related to thepriest.
And so I don't just meanthey're just popcorn and
entertainment where you can justturn off your mind, I just mean
that they're a little bit,they're a spoonful of sugar
right to just we can talk aboutgood things and and try to make

(01:24:56):
the world a better place.
But it's available on Amazon.
Any.
Any reviews helps the algorithm, I'm told.
So if you watch it, leave alittle comment.
It's a yeah, Amazon voodoo andthey're going to make a big push
for it in a bunch of Europeanmarkets here in the next.
So I don't know how extensiveyour listening network is, but

(01:25:20):
if you're in.
Europe, it's on the way.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
Sure, but yeah, that's awesome.
Well, thank you so much, matt,for your time and for all your
insights.
I think they're really valuableand it's been just fun to catch
up.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
Congratulations, thank you, thanks for having me
on and, yeah, you guys are doinga great thing, so keep it up.

Speaker 3 (01:25:39):
Same.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
Thanks so much, Matthew Okay.

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Ep. 94 - The Grit and Vision of Indie Filmmaking with Matthew Taggart

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 94 - The Grit and Vision of Indie Filmmaking with Matthew Taggart