March 7, 2025 • 57 mins
The boat is back baby! Dive back in with us this week as we continue our exploration of Titanic. How cold was Kate (and everyone else) in that water? Why is it important to have quality welding on things that float? Who put the PCP in the chowder? And why doesn't Cameron like talking about that door? All this and more in this installment of Legendary Lore. Enjoy the show!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello film friends, friends of film and everyone in between.
(00:15):
Welcome to the Film Folklore Podcast.
I am Jed Props and I am joined today by Chris A.D.
Hello.
Heather A. Costumes.
Hi.
And Justin Sound.
Hi.
Well, you know what, Chris?
Where's Zoe?
So, she joined the circus and that's it.
She's just in the circus now.
Aren't we all in the circus?
(00:36):
I think so, but...
It's not a far departure.
Is she crew or talent?
I think both.
I think the circus has fallen on some hard times, so she's crew, she's talent, she's
the barker, she's the chef, she's the elephant trainer, and the lion.
There aren't elephants anymore.
There's not elephants anymore.
Well, she is the elephant.
(00:56):
Oh.
She's also the lion tamer and trainer.
I don't really know what the difference is, but...
So she's there.
One requires a degree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
One's a degree, one you just learn on the job, it's fine.
I think all you need is a whip and a chair, apparently, but I don't know.
Top hat.
You need a top hat.
(01:16):
You need a top hat?
Yeah.
It's required.
All right.
You need that tux bib.
As a costume person, I know this.
You have to rely on my knowledge, my deep, deep knowledge.
That's right.
Yes.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Okay.
So we are back for our two-part of Titanic, and we got a lot to cover here, so we're going
(01:40):
to just jump right in because I know you all have been waiting with bated breath.
Sorry to keep you all waiting.
So let's see.
A little quick recap.
We left off discussing Kate Winslet's thoughts reflecting back on the making of Titanic.
We talked about how she got injured and almost died a few times, how James the midge, Cameron,
is an asshole to crew, and now you're about to see there so much more.
(02:05):
So let's dive right in.
Oh, the puns are back.
So continuing Kate.
Kate Winslet can't help herself in being nice.
She downplayed some of the events that happened to her on the shoot, including suffering from
apparently hypothermia, according to some accounts, and almost drowning.
Good acting.
Yes.
(02:26):
The problem, except she doesn't drown in the movie.
Almost drowning.
Almost drowning.
Touche.
The problem with the water in the tank was the sheer volume of it was too much to heat,
being that it was 17 million gallons of water.
So just the nature of water, it stayed cold by volume.
(02:50):
And in a 2017 interview on The Late Show, Winslet revealed to Stephen Colbert that the
water was, quote, really fucking cold.
And they were spending hours in and out of the water.
And oh, yeah, I wanted to ask you, Heather Rae.
I'm just thinking, as you're saying this, I'm like, oh my God, what a nightmare as a
(03:10):
costumer, because it is a costumer's job to keep people warm and comfortable.
And clearly, that would be an impossibility.
That sounds awful.
She was in a corset the whole time.
Yeah.
I mean, like the whole, yeah.
Layers and layers.
Would that be a wetsuit underneath that corset?
She was in a coat.
I mean, she would have to have a wetsuit underneath it.
(03:31):
Yeah, for sure.
And probably some kind of heating thing that may or may not have existed 30 years ago, 27
years ago, or whatever it is.
I wanted to, kind of for the educational purpose, in today's filming, what would be the typical
protocol for this type of situation?
You would have a wetsuit, which would work mildly as well as it would for a diver.
(03:58):
You would have lots of towels ready.
You'd have a heating, a tent that was heated, if that was possible.
I mean, I don't know what the logistics were.
That would be locations, technically.
That would be locations, yeah.
But we end up usually, costumers end up usually being like, hey, this is what we need.
And hopefully we get it.
(04:18):
But yeah, like heated tents, or someplace that's warm where they can.
But the thing is, once you get warm when you're wet, as soon as you step out of that heat.
I mean, this is not a movie thing.
This is a human thing.
And so I'm not giving anybody any information they don't already know from experience, probably.
But yeah, I mean, that sounds like a nightmare for the actor and for the costumer.
(04:43):
You just take a ton of hand warmers and you just keep stuffing them down the wetsuit,
right?
You know what?
I'm not even sure.
I'm not even sure.
Is it the way a wetsuit works?
It doesn't keep your body dry or anything like that.
No.
It just keeps your heat in.
Keeps your heat in.
Yeah.
That's theoretically the case.
(05:05):
But if you're freezing in there for three hours.
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't really matter.
Yeah, it's not doing much.
Yeah.
I mean, that sounds just miserable all around.
And what's funny, we're focusing on Kate Winslet.
There's probably about 50 BG people who died in the making of this movie.
Well, for real, that's one of the things that we were talking about.
For 60 bucks a day.
Right.
I cannot even.
(05:26):
But you got a free meal.
That's why he brought them to Mexico.
That's why they're in Mexico.
So just to go over real quick, the protocol essentially would be costumes is talking with
the ADs about can we get tents, heaters, stuff like that.
And then Chris, y'all are turning to locations in that situation?
I mean, I end up talking to locations a lot of the time.
(05:47):
Or production.
I mean, because honestly, this should be something that just happens.
But we as costumers, the costume department, know that it's something that's not thought
about by anybody but us.
So we're usually the ones that sort everything out.
Where is the tent?
We need this, we need this, we need...
I mean, aside from what we need on our end from our department, everything else that's
(06:11):
needed and we have to talk to the ADs and say, we need this much time to do this kind
of thing and la, la, la.
I mean, sometimes you'll have multiples.
You will always have multiples with things like that.
But again, with Kate Winslet in a corset and all of that.
I mean, maybe she did have that jacket on, so maybe they gave her a little leeway with
(06:34):
that corset, but probably not.
I mean, the costumes, I will say the costumes in this movie were fantastic.
I love this period anyway.
As well they should be.
I mean, yeah, they have to be.
Yeah.
So, but yeah.
So probably the accuracy was probably pretty important.
And if she was freezing on a door that had room for at least one more person.
(06:59):
Oh, don't worry.
We'll get into it.
Okay, I'm ready.
I'm ready.
Very big door.
Someone would say it's a queen size door.
It is a queen size door.
So yeah, I was curious because a lot of times I feel like when we're unsure, we go straight
to production only to find out that they're an unnecessary middleman and you end up circling
(07:20):
back to someone else on set.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And I don't bother even talking to producers or anything about that.
It's for the best.
That's, I mean, yeah.
If you need to know about posturing, they're great people to talk to.
Chris has a lot of questions for him.
We're going to get there one day.
I know.
I can't wait for that too.
I'm on board.
Trying to wrangle a producer for us.
(07:42):
15 years on the job.
I have no idea what those fucking people did.
I think, not to get us too far off the track.
I was thinking-
Don't give me static.
Don't give me static about that because you've mentioned that before.
And recently something I had worked on, I had a little light bulb moment where I'm like,
I think part of the problem of the confusion is because they all come in so many shapes
(08:05):
and sizes and some are more useful than others and the lines are not always defined or they
can change company to company.
So it just further confuses things.
And then you really don't know.
I just got told by a producer, for example, the only American producer on it.
Everyone else was Russian.
But I said, when we get to rap, do you want me to be rapping out props for this or are
(08:34):
you going to take things from the show?
And then the guy said, well, you provided some of your own stuff, didn't you?
And I said, yeah.
And I said, y'all rented some things.
And he goes, well, what are you doing with those?
And I said, well, I'm documenting them and everything, but I'm taking them back.
They are rentals.
Unless you want to buy them.
And then he goes, well, I wouldn't want to buy something that you got for free.
(08:57):
And I was like, wow.
You really don't know what's going on, do you?
So I just politely, I was like, well, I guess you don't really know what I got for free
and what I didn't.
So there's that.
But OK, noted.
I'll just keep everything.
And that was the end of it.
But it was such a rude comment, but also just that kind of thing of like, you know what
(09:18):
you're paying for it?
You're paying for me to store all this crap so that for the random day that you ask for
like a key that looks like it's a house key from 1985, I have the dumbass thing.
That's what you're paying for.
So yeah, just anyway.
But you know, it's also.
That being said, there are some producers that I've worked with that are fantastic.
(09:38):
I do want to give a shout out to Casey Silver, who is with Paramount for a very long time.
Casey Silver.
Yeah.
I mean, that guy, I regret saying not saying to him, please tell me what you do, how you
do it, because I want to do open a producer school, please.
For real.
I mean, that was a guy who really understood that you needed so little to give so little
(10:01):
to get so much back.
Well, like the guy I'm talking about.
I mean, also a comment like that, ironically, kind of shows your colors, too, because you're
showing your own experience and everything to even be making the comment.
I have these conversations with producers all.
Which is amazing how I would know that because I'm a dumb dumb.
Well, as I'm a crew man.
Yeah.
(10:21):
Ain't too good with numbers.
Yeah.
Oh, don't worry.
We're going to get into some numbers games.
One, two, eleven, ten.
We got all of them.
I missed my eleventh birthday.
So getting back to our favorite Kate Winslet here.
So she she also almost drowned on the show and it was not out in the final scenes before
(10:44):
Jack died, but was actually on the ship when the water was gushing in.
Chris, do you see a little thing there?
I do.
When Jack and Rose are running through the ship as the water is rushing in, they're looking
for an escape route, but they get trapped, trapped in by the gate, the closing gate.
This was all supposed to happen.
Once the scene was cut, the crew opened the gate to allow DiCaprio and Winslet through.
(11:07):
However, her co-cocat got caught on the iron bars and she was submerged in the water.
She describes the experience in the LA Times.
I had no breath left.
I thought I'd burst and Jim just said, OK, let's go again.
That was his attitude.
I didn't want to be a wimp, so I didn't complain.
(11:28):
Jim Cameron was apparently oblivious to all of this and while getting upset as to why
are we not going again yet, he realized a few minutes later that Winslet was feeling
shaken by the experience.
He then compared it to getting back on the horse after a fall.
Wow.
Exactly what you want to hear when you're gasping for air.
(11:53):
You know, I wonder because this was her breakout role, I wonder if she were put in this position
now.
She would be so congenial about the whole thing.
No, I would be really curious.
I mean, I would hope not, honestly, for her own sake.
She was like she was very, very young.
And yeah, I mean, this was the first.
I mean, she was in other things, but you know, yeah, but this was her big breakout role, I
(12:18):
believe.
I think so.
Yes.
Yeah.
She became a household name after this for sure.
So the last thing I want to mention regarding Kate Winslet was that she is the reason this
movie plays out the way it did.
She was not the first choice for the gig.
Other actresses of the time, Angelina Jolie, Gwyneth Paltrow, for example, were in serious
(12:40):
consideration for the part.
Kate read the script and fell in love with the character.
She campaigned hard with Cameron and her agent to get the role.
Winslet knew that Leonardo DiCaprio was up for the part of Jack, and she sought him out
and convinced him to do the project with her, which worked out perfect for everyone since
Leo was on the fence about it himself.
(13:01):
And her persistence paid off.
And the rest is history.
Kate Winslet would go on to receive an Oscar nomination for her role as Rose DeWitt Bucketer.
I never knew how to say that.
I don't think we ever hear it, do we?
I'm sure you hear it at some point.
Probably.
And if you take everything here into account, she was well deserving of it.
So that's the amazing Kate Winslet.
(13:24):
Now in the last episode, our first episode, we were talking about Titanic.
I mentioned that the Titanic set had a sinking.
What's interesting is that I barely found anything about this.
I just kind of saw a mention of it somewhere.
So I just started looking for information about the ship sinking, the set ship sinking.
(13:49):
And in February 1997, independent contractor called Hog Engineers were called to the movie
set of the feature film Titanic.
Ironically, the 90% scale movie set sank, end quotes, near the end of filming.
The overall model was a steel frame mostly on dry land that was clad with metal panels
(14:09):
to look like a ship.
To simulate sinking, the bow was progressively tilted into a pool of water by lifting the
entire frame and cutting the column shorter.
For the final scenes, the bow section was a separate set supported by a series of hydraulically
actuated cables and buoyant foam blocks to make the set appear to float while it was
(14:32):
being actuated with the cables.
The flotation blocks could not support the weight.
Unfortunately, a series of modifications needed to improve realism resulted in support
failures that let the set sink, interrupted filming, left expensive actors and crews idle
and impacted actor confidence in the structure.
(14:53):
On their own website as kind of like a testimonial to the kind of stuff they do is where I got
this information.
Justin, if you can read.
Sure.
You can't read.
No.
Yeah, sorry.
That was an ability question.
You can read.
That was a question.
Yeah.
This is per Hogg Global.
(15:15):
The problem with the set at the time we arrived was that they weren't really certain what
had occurred.
All they knew was that it was suspended on cables and flotation blocks at the time that
it had partially collapsed, said David Teasdale, Hogg principal engineer and VP of engineering
sciences.
(15:36):
We had to wait a day while the tank was drained and we took that time to learn the structure
review plans, talk to the designers and users and tour some of the other sets where the
filming continued.
The set had broken and partially sank once earlier and different groups had different
concerns about why.
Once the tank was drained, we observed that one support leg had broken loose, kicked out
(15:59):
and allowed the set of the ship to tilt into the pit of water.
And has since more flotation blocks were called for to improve the buoyant look during filming.
And there was only so much room under the set to fit them in.
When the extra blocks were added, the cross braces had to be moved higher on the columns.
The structural contractor had completed his work and left the site.
(16:22):
So he subcontracted a local welding crew to do the work from an engineer's plan.
One main support leg had pulled loose due to a bad weld and the bad weld was one of
many.
The solution was pretty simple.
First and foremost, the repair needed to be implemented quickly because time was money.
Time is money.
(16:43):
And secondly, since it had failed once before, we needed to restore trust in the set.
Therefore hog engineers were included in the repair oversight.
So who originally welded this thing together then?
I want to tread lightly here because we're going to enter a lot of stereotypes when I
say Mexican construction labor.
(17:07):
It's technically they would have hired local people mixed in with skill positions that
they brought to the set.
And kind of like when we have made a light jest of our camera brethren who we all love,
there's a lot of stereotypes in our departments.
(17:27):
I know, I know, I know guys.
We love you Penny.
We do love you Penny.
We love Penny.
That's about it.
I have a few more on my list.
I can get up to seven.
I can get higher than that actually.
To name that tune.
(17:48):
But you know, in our stereotypes and stuff, we also make jabs at like our construction
departments, you know, like you don't want them to build a real house, you know, kind
of jokes.
But in the reality is that everyone is skilled, everyone is talented.
These are the realities, they're all just jokes.
But we are in a situation where I don't know what kind of labor was hired.
(18:12):
I was just curious if it was these engineers to begin with or if they if it was like a
set crew.
I think it's safe to say at least one bad welder was hired.
Well, at least one if there were multiple bad welds.
Right.
I mean, but I mean, I know how to weld, but I'm not going to weld a ship together.
(18:32):
Well, and you know, this is this is a unique build, you know, so you're you're bringing
people in to do something that is probably unprecedented for a lot of the stuff that
they're used to doing.
I mean, there's a lot of possibilities to to point eight from point A to point B.
(18:53):
I was just curious.
I have something.
Very good question.
Looked into that.
I used to weld ships.
I did.
Really?
Yeah, I used to I used to weld these.
I was like, you would have been like 12 at the time.
Child labor.
Yeah, no.
(19:13):
We built these we built these giant pontoons that would that they would put treads on and
they call them marsh buggies.
Yeah.
And they put like excavators on them.
And, you know, they're excavators that go into the swamps and things like that.
Yeah, no, I've got to.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And I've got like eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars a piece.
(19:33):
That's why he only has two.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So my Wednesday, Friday, my Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, I take the day off.
Right.
So anyway, Justin, as you were saying, I mean, the the the process, I mean, I know this this
this ship wasn't meant to float or anything, but, you know, there was many welders.
(19:56):
It was.
It did float.
It was in the float.
No, no, no.
Oh, this.
Wait, what?
The set ship is I mean, it's on hydraulics and other support beams and it was made to
look to float.
Yeah.
So it can tilt and do those kind of things.
But it still has to be somewhat seaworthy.
No, no, no, not at all.
(20:17):
So how did it sink if it's it was the hydraulics because the support.
Got it.
Got it.
Got it.
Yes.
That's why sink is in quotes.
Got it.
Got it.
If you're a dumb dumb like me, you're welcome for me.
You know, and I don't get it either.
It's fine.
I get it now.
I get it now.
But wait, where like what company was that for?
(20:40):
It was this company called Wilco out in Lafayette.
And I had no idea.
Jeff Twain.
Man, talk about a man about it.
They also built Marsh Buggies.
So that was how they got started.
And then they started playing music.
So are you saying the song Impossible Germany is about bad welds?
Yeah.
That's fucking crazy, man.
(21:01):
I thought it was I'm the man that loves you.
We learned so much on this podcast.
It is wild.
It is wild.
So this is going to be a callback to Justin when you were talking about answering the
Craigslist ad.
Soldering was one of the skills I believe that you needed.
Right.
(21:22):
So I had like mini welding.
Right.
Which is mini welding.
So now I'm curious.
Did you did you solder first or did you weld first?
Which came first?
I was a welder first.
Welder first.
All right.
Soldering came natural.
Same.
Yeah.
I never really thought about soldering as just baby welding.
I've not really done a lot of soldering, but it's really kind of cute now.
(21:44):
I know.
Don't you want to get a little soldered?
Well, the 478 certification class is called baby welding.
Sign up before there's no room.
My theory, because we don't want to cast dispersions on any of our Mexican brethren, is that one
(22:05):
welder, he just forgot his welding mask that day.
Yeah.
So the only thing that he could do was he just had to close his eyes and hope for the
best.
Yeah.
Which you do.
Didn't work out.
Yeah.
You have to do that sometimes.
Don't tell me that.
I don't want to know that.
Or he went blind looking at the welding arc for too long.
(22:27):
That's sad.
Yeah.
You should have started with baby welding.
This is why we need unions.
Exactly.
Okay.
So I need to find where I was.
So one interesting tidbit about this fun ironic problem that occurred is how it was not widely
(22:52):
reported as I was alluding to earlier compared to so many other aspects of this gigantic
project.
So I think at the end you just say, luckily no one was harmed.
And except for background people, I'm sure they were.
But without a doubt.
Without a doubt.
That's a poor background.
Oh god, they're just.
(23:13):
How many background were on it?
Total?
Yeah.
How many background were on the show?
Oh god.
The country of Mexico.
I mean if I had to.
Well I mean there were 2,224 people on the actual Titanic.
I would think.
Souls.
Chris, this is probably a better question for you.
(23:34):
I know it's a math question, but I mean what?
400 minimum?
I mean who knows.
I remember seeing the show for the first time and the visual effects, they were groundbreaking
at the time.
And now that I look at them, they're really not that great.
(23:54):
But they used a lot of.
Don't tell Cameron.
I'm sorry James.
They used a lot of CG for when the ship is sailing and all that.
But there's certainly a lot of scenes with actual people in the dining hall and the dancing
scene and all that stuff.
I mean it wouldn't, in a show like this size, they don't care about the budget so I'm sure
(24:15):
that there were hundreds a day.
There had to have been hundreds and hundreds.
Hundreds a day.
Like at least three to four hundred a day.
For the scenes where you needed it.
Why not?
Midge also demanded that all floating bodies are real people.
No dummies.
No.
I'm kidding.
I mean I bought it.
(24:35):
I know, I know.
I was like really?
Yeah, that tracks.
It's plausible.
That's what's so bad about it.
So I just Googled how many background extras were in the movie.
I can't find it but I did find an article.
Okay, good talk.
I did find an article that says, why only short extras were cast in Titanic?
And the Subheadline says, the director reveals his trick to conveying the vast scale of the
(24:59):
doomed ocean liner without spending more money.
He was trying to make the set look bigger by hiring shorter extras.
I just want to be clear.
It's wild.
We're shooting in Mexico and you got little people.
I didn't see a lot of people that looked Mexican.
No, I didn't either.
(25:22):
I mean perhaps I wasn't paying attention.
Or perhaps it doesn't matter.
They white faced them.
I mean, unfortunately that also is not completely out of the question.
So let's get to my favorite part of this entire thing.
I did not know about this until recently.
(25:46):
Actually learning about this is what turned my attention on to researching Titanic.
But I called this last section, who spiked the punch air chowder.
So I don't know if y'all are familiar with this or not.
So during an earlier portion of the general shoot, they started in Nova Scotia I believe
(26:11):
before going to Mexico.
So it was supposed to be the last day of shooting in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, where about 80
crew members fell ill while exhibiting strange behavior, including James Cameron and Bill
Paxton amongst others.
It was reported that Cameron shouted, quote, there's something in me.
(26:32):
Get it out.
While a conga line formed around him.
And yes, you heard that correctly.
A conga line.
Rick Courtney was a set PA at the time who also happened to have a sailing and medic
background as well.
In his recount, it was supposed to be like I mentioned the last day of shooting when
(26:55):
everyone broke for lunch after midnight.
Heather, you got that?
Well, first of all, this is clearly a disgruntled crew.
Don't worry.
We'll get there.
We'll get there.
OK, so this guy Rick Courtney, who was this set PA, said people started acting strange.
I remember hearing on the headset that people were acting very bizarre down in the lunch
(27:17):
room.
I was up in the production office.
James Cameron, who came to me, he said, you're a medic, right?
I go, yep.
And he said, well, fix me.
There's something wrong with me.
And Courtney went on to say that Cameron described a wide array of symptoms like hallucinations
and a drunken feeling.
And as more people fell ill and things quickly got out of hand, Rick described, we had a
(27:39):
whole bunch of people who were acting extremely bizarre.
And I decided there's too many people here.
This is not an isolated incident.
So we activated EMS and got a bunch of ambulances.
And another crew member at the time, a set painter named Marilyn McAvoy, also recounted
the experience.
Justin?
Yeah, it was kind of like a very dreamy, very surreal, recalls McAvoy.
(28:04):
Unfortunately for Marilyn, she also ate the chowder.
I was still functioning.
I wasn't nauseous or anything like that, but it seemed like it affected people in many,
many different ways, says McAvoy.
She describes a feeling like she had drank three beers and had a joint, but it didn't
experience the flashbacks.
(28:26):
Some others did.
I didn't have a lot of experience with psychedelic drugs.
There was some people I knew were having some really bad, really tough times.
I think it was kind of a flashback related situation.
This woman has clearly never done drugs with her time.
At the time.
Until, and for this.
Trying to describe a trip.
(28:50):
So the atmosphere at the emergency room was also a bit chaotic as dozens of patients felt
varied effects of the drug.
People were just really active and wanted to party and wanted to just have fun.
There's other people who really just needed to be alone, she said.
There was a conga line.
(29:11):
There was a wheelchair race there.
This sounds awesome.
I know.
I want to be working on this day, day playing on this day.
Hell yeah.
I remember in the morning when we finally all came down, they gave us this charcoal
drink to drink.
So I guess it took the toxins out of our bodies.
So years later, even the late Bill Paxton would recount the event in a 2015 interview
(29:35):
with Larry King and quote, you see some people freaking out.
Some people are conga dancing.
Everyone well established conga.
Some people are euphoric.
I knew I was stoned on something pretty bad or awesome.
To this day, the mystery remains unsolved.
Nova Scotia police at the time had a near impossible ability to solve the case, leaving
(29:58):
a lot of speculation behind.
The local authorities had also rationalized that PCP isn't really a local drug.
So therefore it must have come from an American on the shoot.
Where was the drugs are when we needed it?
So I wanted to say crack work investigation there boys as PCP isn't common anywhere.
(30:19):
Right.
Like early nineties in New York City.
Hard hitting investigation by the Nova Scotia authorities.
And also reveal it was PCP.
So the production had left pretty quickly after the crime had occurred.
So the likely perpetrator had left with them.
(30:39):
The dispersing of witnesses also made it difficult to interview and assess what had happened
other than a conga line.
We know that happened.
So the Department of Health had confirmed the chowder, I believe it was a lobster chowder
by the way, had been spiked with a Fensiclidine, aka PCP, aka Angel Dust, aka Tic Tac, Supergrass,
(31:04):
Sherman's, Boat, Rocket Fuel to name a few.
Dust?
Yeah.
Oh, you got Angel Dust.
There you go.
Oh, my favorite after school special was-
Oh yeah, Helen Hunt.
Angel Dusted.
Yeah.
It was called Angel Dusted.
Yeah.
She jumped out of the window.
High school track star that gets hooked on PCP.
(31:26):
No one has ever been hooked on PCP.
No, no, no, no.
Well, when I ran track, we took PCP to do-
You ran real fast.
Nice.
So fast.
I missed after school specials.
But it was in a conga line.
Yeah.
I love that you remember that.
Do you guys remember Thumper, the best boy grip?
He went to Atlanta at some point.
(31:47):
I worked with him on American Horror Story.
So he worked on this show and he definitely confirmed that it did, like this did happen.
And he never, I don't think that he was on it, but I mean, it was just sort of like,
what was it?
Was it PCP?
Was it acid?
Was it X?
And I don't think that he ever really knew, but he said it was definitely like a disgruntled
(32:14):
crew member.
Oh, 100%.
A thousand percent.
Clearly.
Just trying to fuck him over.
But I mean, like, camera and over that is.
But like, if a conga line is the worst thing that happens, it sounds like it was literally
the best day on the show.
It really does.
That's why I had day playing that one day.
The most impressive thing is they actually returned to shooting later after everybody
(32:37):
came down.
You're kidding.
Yeah, they didn't go home.
Like they actually went back to work.
Fucking wild.
Well, the sun's down now.
We got to go.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
Oh, Lord.
Wheelchair race.
So, yeah, so the Department of Health in Canada did confirm through a series of beakers, I'm
sure, testing that it was PCP.
(32:58):
Always beakers.
That's right.
So, y'all are going to love this.
At the time of the incident, there was wide speculation as to the why part of the whole
thing.
A disgruntled crew member has been the longstanding guest by most, especially considering old
midges on professional behavior as a screamer.
But that might not be the actual answer.
(33:19):
Other guesses over the years include, A, the film was already over budget even at this
stage of the shoot, and this incident could have been an attempt to buy more shooting
time after filing an insurance claim, thus increasing funding for the film in a roundabout
way.
Because of this, the investigators chose to keep the case confidential at the time.
(33:40):
B, it was simply a prank gone wrong.
Someone, quote, spiked the punch, so to speak, and not understanding quantities, doses, et
cetera, it got out of hand.
D, the lead caterer sort of had a similar opinion, insisting that, quote, that's some
Hollywood shit, and they brought it to the party, end quote.
(34:01):
That's fair.
Clearly he's Canadian.
But D, my favorite, because y'all are going to love the audacity, James Cameron offered
his own opinion in an interview in 2023, where Cameron told a Canadian radio show that it
might have stemmed from someone wanting to get the caterers in trouble after having an
argument with them.
Quote, of course, the operating theory was that I was such a psychomaniac that the perpetrator
(34:27):
was trying to get back at me, but I reject that theory out of hand for obvious reasons.
Spoken like a true narcissist.
Where I want to ask y'all, what are the obvious reasons?
I have no idea what he's talking about.
So whatever the case, it's highly likely to remain an unsolved case for aforementioned
(34:49):
reasons.
It was a crew member.
Let's just call it as it is.
I want to meet the guy or girl that did it and shake their hand.
I didn't include it in here, but there was a crew member that was fired a few days before
(35:12):
for drug possession, but according to Canadian authorities, they cleared that person of having
anything to do with this.
And also it's just the fact that it's PCP.
I mean, well, first of all, only an American could have brought that, but it's just, it's
such a random drug.
(35:32):
I mean, I'm not saying like one drug makes more sense than another necessarily, but the
commonality of a drug would make more sense and it's just not a common drug.
It seems like he tried to get one thing, but the dealer was out.
He's like, Hey man, can I get a bunch of cocaine?
Yeah.
Yeah.
(35:52):
I don't have any cocaine.
All I got is this PCP right now.
Ah, shit.
Dude, you're in Canada.
I can't get you any ass about and get you some PCP.
They'll never guess it's us.
We've got some fermented maple syrup.
It'll really fuck you up.
I'm telling you.
Ah, God bless the Canadians.
I love them so.
(36:13):
I got this shit all the way from Saskatchewan.
You're going to love it.
You won't believe, dude.
I got this from Eskimo, it's fermented whale blubber.
You're going to trip balls.
You're going to trip balls.
So you had heard, I mean, as you were just saying, so you had heard of this.
(36:34):
Yeah.
I remember learning that Thumper was on that show and asking him the story.
We've got to track down Thumper.
We probably shouldn't.
But now this was 12 years ago.
But I think that it was literally, I just asked him and he confirmed.
(36:58):
This was in 2013.
This was definitely talked about.
It was online.
I don't know.
But he wasn't dodgy about it.
No, no.
I mean, he was like, you're clear, Thumper.
We're not suggesting any of that.
He wasn't offering you chowder.
Yeah.
Well, I was buying drugs at the time.
(37:21):
What was it?
It just kind of came up in conversation.
PCP to be exact.
There were some letters involved.
Angel dust.
Also didn't know that boat is a nickname for PCP.
I thought that was kind of fitting.
I didn't know that.
Look at that.
Maybe that's why.
Hey.
It's a very astute drug.
(37:42):
Exactly.
So I'll sink this boat.
The last thing that I wanted to bring up before winding down, this is going to speak to our
why did Jack have to die door theory.
So James Cameron apparently cannot handle fan debate.
(38:04):
So the last thing here, and it's almost guaranteed to get in Heather Rae's craw as I wrote here,
James Cameron got so worked up over the years at the audacity of fans to question why Jack
had to die that there was plenty of room on that floating door that he paid to have tests
done.
This is a real thing he did.
(38:25):
Oh my God.
Chris, can you read?
I mean, I can read, but I want to read the riot act to James Cameron.
And I can't.
I have an app.
I just also want to put it in perspective that he is clear that it wasn't anybody doing
it to mess with him.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
So let's just keep that in mind as Chris goes on.
(38:50):
While promoting Avatar, the ego maniac, James Cameron.
Oh, sorry.
Sorry.
That's not what it really said, guys.
That's what I see.
Oh no.
Anywho, old Camerooni told Post Media in an interview, we have since done a thorough forensic
analysis with a hypothermia expert who reproduced the raft from the movie.
(39:16):
And we're going to do a little special on it that comes out in February.
We took two stunt people, both died.
That's not true.
That's not in there either.
Everybody, you're going to have to take a grain of salt.
We took two stunt people who were the same body mass of Kate and Leo.
He's such a full of shit.
So full of shit.
(39:37):
I'm really like...
Also, also rich people problems.
Yeah, right.
And we put sensors all over them and inside them.
Inside them?
What stuff?
Really?
Yeah, it was just...
It was the butt stuff.
Butt stuff.
There it is.
You couldn't give me enough boat to make...anyway.
(39:57):
Inside them.
And we put it in ice water, both died, and we tested to see whether they could have survived
through a variety of methods.
And the answer was no way.
I want to know the variety of methods.
They could both have survived.
Only one could survive.
Why?
Cameron further argued that Jack's death was necessary in order to strengthen the almost
(40:22):
mythical love affair between the two.
Jack needed to die.
Cameron said, it's like Romeo and Juliet.
It's a movie about love and sacrifice and mortality.
The love is measured by the sacrifice.
Oh, fuck you.
Kate made no sacrifice.
That's true.
She's also a bit of a harlot, but that's another story.
(40:44):
Maybe after 25 years...
No, I love it.
I love it.
There's no judgment.
Dude, I want to go on a cruise and do it in a car.
Maybe after 25 years, I won't have to deal with this anymore.
Nope.
Yes.
Sensitive much, Midge.
Yeah.
So I wanted to mention real quick that his further argument about how Jack's death was
(41:06):
necessary is the part we all know and he just mansplained to everyone.
Yeah, clearly he needed to die.
We understand the story.
I get the why part.
Yeah, clearly he needed to die for the story.
We did this crazy science thing to prove it, but that doesn't matter.
(41:26):
It needed to happen anyway.
It's called storytelling.
Anyway, I had to include that because I just thought that was amazing and I mean, wow,
hubris.
So starting to wind us up, I guess suppose that, dear friends, is where we are going
(41:47):
to end our coverage of the behind the scenes of the making of Titanic.
I did want to have a quick aside.
We didn't have time to deep dive, but I did want to mention it just because it was quite
the rabbit hole to distract me.
So the 1997 Titanic installment is at least the fourth movie that's Titanic specific.
(42:14):
The very first three movies ever done about the Titanic were all German films.
Most random and interesting is that during World War II, Nazi superstar, and I mean that
jokingly, Joseph Goebbels was taken aback by the success of Casablanca, which carries
an anti-fascist message in the story.
(42:34):
So he and the Nazi propaganda machine made the third installment, a third German installment
of the Titanic, spending over $180 million in today money to make their own propaganda
movie.
Was it all three of them?
Is it the total of all three of them?
No, no, no.
It's just the one.
(42:55):
I should clarify it.
The first two movies were just regular movies.
The first movie actually was made not long after the actual Titanic sank.
I think it was maybe like late teens.
And then the second movie was maybe in the late 20s, early 30s.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was probably just a cardboard cutout.
A silent by a talkie.
(43:15):
But anyway, there's a whole giant rabbit hole about the making of this insane movie.
The, oh, and I should also, spoiler alert, capitalism is what sank the Titanic.
So there you go.
But the ice, you know, I don't necessarily disagree.
And the Nazi stuff I definitely disagree with, obviously.
(43:36):
But like, you know, capitalism, I was just curious because I haven't seen it.
Is it going to be like an editorial cartoon where the iceberg says capitalism while it
like, really leave no, no error for question.
But anyway, I just want to throw that in there.
Maybe we'll we'll do a full episode, a lore episode on that down the road.
(44:00):
But I think for now, we all need to take a break from anything related to the Titanic.
So let's get into some final thoughts.
Where to even start with a question?
I guess knowing what you know now, does that change anything as far as your opinion of
the movie?
I hate it more now.
(44:21):
I hate it even more, which I didn't think was possible.
Now let me just set this up.
Kate Winslet respect though goes way up.
Kate Winslet is respect for sure and Kathy Bates.
Oh, we haven't even talked about Kathy Bates.
No, no, I went down a Molly Brown rabbit hole on this.
That's yeah.
Yeah, but let me just put it into perspective.
I saw this movie in the theaters and my mother was on one side of me and my boyfriend at
(44:45):
the time was on the other side of me and they were both crying and I'm just laughing at
them and just pissed off at this movie basically.
And I'm just like, just die already.
Like enough.
Like I've been here for three hours.
I can't get this time back.
And these assholes next to me are making it worse.
(45:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, you know, and when Jed told me we're doing this movie, I was like, I have not seen
that movie in almost 30 years on purpose.
And I can't believe you're making me watch this again.
Thanks a lot, Jed.
Thanks, Jed.
Yeah.
And I did get him back by giving play by play.
Which I actually enjoyed.
(45:29):
And you, when you actually mentioned about your boyfriend at the time and mother crying,
and I believe I responded with something like, so I guess it didn't work out.
And if I remember correctly, you were like, no, I hated the movie.
And I was like, oh no, I meant like the boyfriend.
You're like, oh no, that didn't work out either.
Oh no, actually, I just thought you meant all dudes in general.
(45:50):
And then you're like, oh no, just that one.
I'm like, oh yeah, definitely.
But yeah, other thing too.
Yeah.
Because I would imagine if you sit three hours through anything and you're having not the
visceral reaction that your partner is having that there's probably time to question some
things.
I lost a lot of respect for him that day.
I will say that.
(46:11):
If there's ever a movie, this is like a 20 something year too late PSA, but if there's
ever a movie that needed an intermission, it was Titanic.
Oh my God.
I wouldn't have come back.
That's why they didn't have an intermission.
I saw a packed theater.
It was a packed theater and me and my friends sat on the front row far left.
And this is right before stadium seating was a common thing.
(46:32):
So even in a healthy like 18 year old version of myself, I walked out of the theater like,
ah, ah, ah, ah, my neck, my neck, my neck.
I mean, it was such a painful way to watch a movie that left such a bad taste in my mouth.
And I can still appreciate the movie for what it is, you know, scale wise and all these
(46:52):
kinds of things.
But I know the cinematography.
Yeah.
Stunning.
Costumes like you mentioned.
Amazing performances are fine.
There's nothing.
The story just sucks.
Billy Zane did a great job of making us hate him.
Oh my God.
I hate him so much.
But that's good acting.
I know.
I know.
But God, I hated him.
You should listen to your friend, Billy Zane.
Yeah.
(47:13):
Incidentally, Billy Zane is Justin's favorite actor of all time.
I am really mad we didn't get to see him actually die on screen.
I was waiting.
And as I'm texting Jed throughout, I was like, wait a minute, did I just miss him die?
Wait, I got to rewind it.
And I was like, nope, didn't die, didn't die.
And then he never dies.
Still didn't die.
I mean, he dies, but not on camera.
He dies in verbal mention.
I wanted to see.
(47:33):
I needed to see it.
I needed to see it.
I needed to see it.
I needed to see it.
And there's a lot more.
For closure.
There's so much more like little trivia stuff that I left out.
Like the guy that is referred to as Propeller Guy that takes the big fall.
It's the Propeller.
Yeah, a few times.
Little clickety clack, spinny spin.
(47:54):
That guy was apparently jokingly modeled off of John Landau, the producer.
And it was like, so what's the joke here?
Ha ha, I just killed off the producer.
I didn't quite understand the humor part of the inside of that, but I guess it's something
James Cameron would have to explain.
I mean, it was Landau's idea.
(48:16):
Yeah, maybe it was.
I'm thinking the CG guys got some of the clam chowder.
One of the things I read.
Food for thought, pun intended, I guess.
But one of the things that I had read, I think it was one of the five Collider articles,
(48:36):
that they were speculating that is this how Avatar, the impetus for Avatar, because James
Cameron had a hallucinating trip, and then came up with the idea that there would be
these beings that can fly on these things.
And it's like they're using their hair to jack in essentially to the animals.
And all the hypothermia with everybody blue from the hypothermia.
(48:57):
Yeah.
It's like your dream.
Yeah, man.
Peanuts.
Peanuts.
Yeah.
The answer is peanuts.
But yeah, any other thoughts?
Did you know that the woman who played old Rose was actually a survivor of the Titanic?
Oh, that's why she would...
No.
That was real Rose.
(49:17):
Are you serious?
No.
Well, there isn't a real Rose.
Yeah.
She was.
I did know she was an actual survivor, though.
Yeah.
What?
Yep.
Okay.
But I do also want to, and this was the first thing that I mentioned to Jed in my two hour,
three hour long, text exchange with him.
Is that Rose was 16 in this movie, if you do the math.
(49:38):
Yeah, she did the math.
Oh.
Yeah.
Because she was, what was it?
She was 84 when...
It was 84 years.
Yeah, and Carrie the One.
It was 84 years.
She died and...
The checks, it's Leo.
Minus the second second.
Yeah, because it's supposed to be in real time, right?
It's supposed to be...
Theoretically.
It's supposed to be in 1997.
(49:58):
Only nine years younger than his threshold.
Yeah.
And he was a young guy then.
I know, things just never change.
Yeah, it's kind of balanced out there.
Things never change.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I was just like, ew.
Yeah, so I thought this movie sucked.
And part of that is that I'm just kind of a contrarian asshole if people really love
(50:22):
a thing that I'm trying to poke holes in it.
It's a personal problem, guys, I'm working on it.
But I saw...
One of those.
So, but this movie, right?
So it came out in 1997 and the visual effects were just, they were groundbreaking and it
was supposed to be like, the scale of it was fucking incredible and it was supposed to
be, no matter what you thought of the story, at least visually was stunning.
(50:43):
It was made with an Obtanium too.
So there you go.
But I saw this movie for the first time on an airplane.
Oh God.
And so my screen...
An airship.
Was like, it was like four engines.
He took a zeppelin.
So...
You're afraid you're gonna sink?
I took the zeppelin from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and on that one, that Nazi
(51:07):
vessel, they had...
He punched a guy because he didn't have a ticket.
Totally did.
And because that's what you do in Germany during the war.
The World War of Two, which was a long time ago.
Right.
It's like 80, like literally 80 years ago.
(51:28):
Anyway, so the whole, all the spectacle was lost.
You couldn't see shit because it was on the tiny little screen.
And so all you had to go on was the story.
And I was like, what fucking fourth grader wrote this shit?
What is this?
(51:49):
The story is garbage.
And I am kind of contrarian, but when you take away the visual aspect of the movie,
I just thought that, yes, it sucked.
Agreed.
Visually, it's stunning.
I'm not saying anything else.
I didn't put it in here, but where the numbers don't lie is how much it made.
So that's where we can't...
(52:10):
There's no accounting for taste though, either.
I mean, that's true.
Over half of the country has less than a sixth grade reading level.
To make a full circle back to the beginning and how he loves to go over budget, this is
a 200 something million dollar movie that made over a billion dollars.
That's a pretty good return on your investment.
(52:32):
Yeah.
At the end of the day, it's like jokes on us.
Nidge.
Well, jokes on fucking James Cameron because even on the fucking two inch screen, James
Cameron, I could clearly tell that the door was big enough for both of them.
It took up the whole tiny screen.
So you can fucking suck it.
You know what's weird is the way she was lying on it with all of her arms and legs out like
(52:54):
a starfish, really eating up space on it.
I thought that was rude.
It was just rude.
I mean, and he saves her like 20 times in that movie.
Well, remember there was a moment where Jack's going like, hey, can I get up there?
He should have just let her jump the first time and he probably would have survived.
So there you go.
(53:17):
Best way to watch this movie is to get the two piece VHS set and throw away the first
one.
Just watch the devastation.
Just watch the second one.
Okay.
I do want to ask, having said that none of us are necessarily a fan of this, favorite
movie moment in the movie.
(53:39):
I'll go first.
Propeller guy.
I'll go first.
And the third class people are behind the gate and they finally break it down.
The one guy who is one of Leo's friends comes by and as he passes the dude that was keeping
him back, punches him out.
Just punches him as he's running.
I'm like, yes, that's what I'm talking about.
(54:00):
Absolutely necessary.
Why is it not the second second class?
Just asking.
Because that would be stupid.
Do they have a second?
Is that a thing?
No.
We don't math too good.
I ain't too good with numbers.
Can't get up to three.
(54:21):
You have to go second second.
I did second two.
One two.
Second two.
Banana.
11 team.
Cuisinart.
And there it is.
Do you have a favorite propeller guy?
I was just throwing that out there.
When it was over?
When it said the end credits.
(54:41):
I mean, that was my second favorite part, honestly.
But I do want to just touch on Kathy Bates.
Kathy Bates just being present.
Because she's amazing, first of all, as a person and as an actor.
Like incredible.
And I did go down, like as I said, a little Molly Brown rabbit hole and she was she married
(55:03):
for love, even though she was looking for a rich man, right?
Turns out Marion, this poor dude, and he becomes this engine.
He's a self-taught engineer and he's he is in mining and like engineers this thing and
they give him stock options and a seat on the board and becomes like loaded.
Right.
And then she becomes like an she because her father was an abolitionist, by the way, first
(55:27):
of all, she comes from good stock.
So.
And then she was a suffragette.
She was she worked with the Red Cross and she ran for before the women even had the
vote.
She ran for Congress, I think.
But she I mean, she was like she was awesome.
(55:48):
The unsinkable Molly Brown.
I need to see them.
I'm not a musical.
When did she start volunteering at the nursing home where she meets the.
When does she become Tawanda?
Is that what you're asking?
Yes.
I believe it was shortly thereafter.
Oh, yes.
Really there when she, you know, got to live every life to the every moment to the fullest
(56:10):
in your life.
And it was it's it's basically a sequel.
That's why her book is called Secrets in the Sauce.
That is her autobiography.
Ah, OK.
Molly Brown.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes, Molly Brown.
I thought the secret was the PCP and the chowder chowder chowder.
No, that's the secret sauce.
(56:30):
Yeah, that is the secret sauce.
All right, on that note, I got no segue.
Zoe's going to finish this out.
Thanks, Zoe.
Appreciate it, Zoe.
Tell us what the Titanic was like underneath the ocean.
Do you like what we're doing here?
Do you have thoughts, comments, questions?
(56:52):
Maybe you have an idea or suggestion for topics you want to hear about?
Well, you can find us on the Intrawebs.
You can email us at filmfolklorepodcast at gmail dot com.
You can find us on the social medias, Instagram, the Film Folklore Podcast.
We have a Facebook group called Film Folklore, Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it,
(57:14):
at the Film Folk.
And yeah, thanks for joining us today.
All right.
Thanks, everybody.
Hello film friends, friends of film and everyone in between.
(00:15):
Welcome to the Film Folklore Podcast.
I am Jed Props and I am joined today by Chris A.D.
Hello.
Heather A. Costumes.
Hi.
And Justin Sound.
Hi.
Well, you know what, Chris?
Where's Zoe?
So, she joined the circus and that's it.
She's just in the circus now.
Aren't we all in the circus?
(00:36):
I think so, but...
It's not a far departure.
Is she crew or talent?
I think both.
I think the circus has fallen on some hard times, so she's crew, she's talent, she's
the barker, she's the chef, she's the elephant trainer, and the lion.
There aren't elephants anymore.
There's not elephants anymore.
Well, she is the elephant.
(00:56):
Oh.
She's also the lion tamer and trainer.
I don't really know what the difference is, but...
So she's there.
One requires a degree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
One's a degree, one you just learn on the job, it's fine.
I think all you need is a whip and a chair, apparently, but I don't know.
Top hat.
You need a top hat.
(01:16):
You need a top hat?
Yeah.
It's required.
All right.
You need that tux bib.
As a costume person, I know this.
You have to rely on my knowledge, my deep, deep knowledge.
That's right.
Yes.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Okay.
So we are back for our two-part of Titanic, and we got a lot to cover here, so we're going
(01:40):
to just jump right in because I know you all have been waiting with bated breath.
Sorry to keep you all waiting.
So let's see.
A little quick recap.
We left off discussing Kate Winslet's thoughts reflecting back on the making of Titanic.
We talked about how she got injured and almost died a few times, how James the midge, Cameron,
is an asshole to crew, and now you're about to see there so much more.
(02:05):
So let's dive right in.
Oh, the puns are back.
So continuing Kate.
Kate Winslet can't help herself in being nice.
She downplayed some of the events that happened to her on the shoot, including suffering from
apparently hypothermia, according to some accounts, and almost drowning.
Good acting.
Yes.
(02:26):
The problem, except she doesn't drown in the movie.
Almost drowning.
Almost drowning.
Touche.
The problem with the water in the tank was the sheer volume of it was too much to heat,
being that it was 17 million gallons of water.
So just the nature of water, it stayed cold by volume.
(02:50):
And in a 2017 interview on The Late Show, Winslet revealed to Stephen Colbert that the
water was, quote, really fucking cold.
And they were spending hours in and out of the water.
And oh, yeah, I wanted to ask you, Heather Rae.
I'm just thinking, as you're saying this, I'm like, oh my God, what a nightmare as a
(03:10):
costumer, because it is a costumer's job to keep people warm and comfortable.
And clearly, that would be an impossibility.
That sounds awful.
She was in a corset the whole time.
Yeah.
I mean, like the whole, yeah.
Layers and layers.
Would that be a wetsuit underneath that corset?
She was in a coat.
I mean, she would have to have a wetsuit underneath it.
(03:31):
Yeah, for sure.
And probably some kind of heating thing that may or may not have existed 30 years ago, 27
years ago, or whatever it is.
I wanted to, kind of for the educational purpose, in today's filming, what would be the typical
protocol for this type of situation?
You would have a wetsuit, which would work mildly as well as it would for a diver.
(03:58):
You would have lots of towels ready.
You'd have a heating, a tent that was heated, if that was possible.
I mean, I don't know what the logistics were.
That would be locations, technically.
That would be locations, yeah.
But we end up usually, costumers end up usually being like, hey, this is what we need.
And hopefully we get it.
(04:18):
But yeah, like heated tents, or someplace that's warm where they can.
But the thing is, once you get warm when you're wet, as soon as you step out of that heat.
I mean, this is not a movie thing.
This is a human thing.
And so I'm not giving anybody any information they don't already know from experience, probably.
But yeah, I mean, that sounds like a nightmare for the actor and for the costumer.
(04:43):
You just take a ton of hand warmers and you just keep stuffing them down the wetsuit,
right?
You know what?
I'm not even sure.
I'm not even sure.
Is it the way a wetsuit works?
It doesn't keep your body dry or anything like that.
No.
It just keeps your heat in.
Keeps your heat in.
Yeah.
That's theoretically the case.
(05:05):
But if you're freezing in there for three hours.
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't really matter.
Yeah, it's not doing much.
Yeah.
I mean, that sounds just miserable all around.
And what's funny, we're focusing on Kate Winslet.
There's probably about 50 BG people who died in the making of this movie.
Well, for real, that's one of the things that we were talking about.
For 60 bucks a day.
Right.
I cannot even.
(05:26):
But you got a free meal.
That's why he brought them to Mexico.
That's why they're in Mexico.
So just to go over real quick, the protocol essentially would be costumes is talking with
the ADs about can we get tents, heaters, stuff like that.
And then Chris, y'all are turning to locations in that situation?
I mean, I end up talking to locations a lot of the time.
(05:47):
Or production.
I mean, because honestly, this should be something that just happens.
But we as costumers, the costume department, know that it's something that's not thought
about by anybody but us.
So we're usually the ones that sort everything out.
Where is the tent?
We need this, we need this, we need...
I mean, aside from what we need on our end from our department, everything else that's
(06:11):
needed and we have to talk to the ADs and say, we need this much time to do this kind
of thing and la, la, la.
I mean, sometimes you'll have multiples.
You will always have multiples with things like that.
But again, with Kate Winslet in a corset and all of that.
I mean, maybe she did have that jacket on, so maybe they gave her a little leeway with
(06:34):
that corset, but probably not.
I mean, the costumes, I will say the costumes in this movie were fantastic.
I love this period anyway.
As well they should be.
I mean, yeah, they have to be.
Yeah.
So, but yeah.
So probably the accuracy was probably pretty important.
And if she was freezing on a door that had room for at least one more person.
(06:59):
Oh, don't worry.
We'll get into it.
Okay, I'm ready.
I'm ready.
Very big door.
Someone would say it's a queen size door.
It is a queen size door.
So yeah, I was curious because a lot of times I feel like when we're unsure, we go straight
to production only to find out that they're an unnecessary middleman and you end up circling
(07:20):
back to someone else on set.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And I don't bother even talking to producers or anything about that.
It's for the best.
That's, I mean, yeah.
If you need to know about posturing, they're great people to talk to.
Chris has a lot of questions for him.
We're going to get there one day.
I know.
I can't wait for that too.
I'm on board.
Trying to wrangle a producer for us.
(07:42):
15 years on the job.
I have no idea what those fucking people did.
I think, not to get us too far off the track.
I was thinking-
Don't give me static.
Don't give me static about that because you've mentioned that before.
And recently something I had worked on, I had a little light bulb moment where I'm like,
I think part of the problem of the confusion is because they all come in so many shapes
(08:05):
and sizes and some are more useful than others and the lines are not always defined or they
can change company to company.
So it just further confuses things.
And then you really don't know.
I just got told by a producer, for example, the only American producer on it.
Everyone else was Russian.
But I said, when we get to rap, do you want me to be rapping out props for this or are
(08:34):
you going to take things from the show?
And then the guy said, well, you provided some of your own stuff, didn't you?
And I said, yeah.
And I said, y'all rented some things.
And he goes, well, what are you doing with those?
And I said, well, I'm documenting them and everything, but I'm taking them back.
They are rentals.
Unless you want to buy them.
And then he goes, well, I wouldn't want to buy something that you got for free.
(08:57):
And I was like, wow.
You really don't know what's going on, do you?
So I just politely, I was like, well, I guess you don't really know what I got for free
and what I didn't.
So there's that.
But OK, noted.
I'll just keep everything.
And that was the end of it.
But it was such a rude comment, but also just that kind of thing of like, you know what
(09:18):
you're paying for it?
You're paying for me to store all this crap so that for the random day that you ask for
like a key that looks like it's a house key from 1985, I have the dumbass thing.
That's what you're paying for.
So yeah, just anyway.
But you know, it's also.
That being said, there are some producers that I've worked with that are fantastic.
(09:38):
I do want to give a shout out to Casey Silver, who is with Paramount for a very long time.
Casey Silver.
Yeah.
I mean, that guy, I regret saying not saying to him, please tell me what you do, how you
do it, because I want to do open a producer school, please.
For real.
I mean, that was a guy who really understood that you needed so little to give so little
(10:01):
to get so much back.
Well, like the guy I'm talking about.
I mean, also a comment like that, ironically, kind of shows your colors, too, because you're
showing your own experience and everything to even be making the comment.
I have these conversations with producers all.
Which is amazing how I would know that because I'm a dumb dumb.
Well, as I'm a crew man.
Yeah.
(10:21):
Ain't too good with numbers.
Yeah.
Oh, don't worry.
We're going to get into some numbers games.
One, two, eleven, ten.
We got all of them.
I missed my eleventh birthday.
So getting back to our favorite Kate Winslet here.
So she she also almost drowned on the show and it was not out in the final scenes before
(10:44):
Jack died, but was actually on the ship when the water was gushing in.
Chris, do you see a little thing there?
I do.
When Jack and Rose are running through the ship as the water is rushing in, they're looking
for an escape route, but they get trapped, trapped in by the gate, the closing gate.
This was all supposed to happen.
Once the scene was cut, the crew opened the gate to allow DiCaprio and Winslet through.
(11:07):
However, her co-cocat got caught on the iron bars and she was submerged in the water.
She describes the experience in the LA Times.
I had no breath left.
I thought I'd burst and Jim just said, OK, let's go again.
That was his attitude.
I didn't want to be a wimp, so I didn't complain.
(11:28):
Jim Cameron was apparently oblivious to all of this and while getting upset as to why
are we not going again yet, he realized a few minutes later that Winslet was feeling
shaken by the experience.
He then compared it to getting back on the horse after a fall.
Wow.
Exactly what you want to hear when you're gasping for air.
(11:53):
You know, I wonder because this was her breakout role, I wonder if she were put in this position
now.
She would be so congenial about the whole thing.
No, I would be really curious.
I mean, I would hope not, honestly, for her own sake.
She was like she was very, very young.
And yeah, I mean, this was the first.
I mean, she was in other things, but you know, yeah, but this was her big breakout role, I
(12:18):
believe.
I think so.
Yes.
Yeah.
She became a household name after this for sure.
So the last thing I want to mention regarding Kate Winslet was that she is the reason this
movie plays out the way it did.
She was not the first choice for the gig.
Other actresses of the time, Angelina Jolie, Gwyneth Paltrow, for example, were in serious
(12:40):
consideration for the part.
Kate read the script and fell in love with the character.
She campaigned hard with Cameron and her agent to get the role.
Winslet knew that Leonardo DiCaprio was up for the part of Jack, and she sought him out
and convinced him to do the project with her, which worked out perfect for everyone since
Leo was on the fence about it himself.
(13:01):
And her persistence paid off.
And the rest is history.
Kate Winslet would go on to receive an Oscar nomination for her role as Rose DeWitt Bucketer.
I never knew how to say that.
I don't think we ever hear it, do we?
I'm sure you hear it at some point.
Probably.
And if you take everything here into account, she was well deserving of it.
So that's the amazing Kate Winslet.
(13:24):
Now in the last episode, our first episode, we were talking about Titanic.
I mentioned that the Titanic set had a sinking.
What's interesting is that I barely found anything about this.
I just kind of saw a mention of it somewhere.
So I just started looking for information about the ship sinking, the set ship sinking.
(13:49):
And in February 1997, independent contractor called Hog Engineers were called to the movie
set of the feature film Titanic.
Ironically, the 90% scale movie set sank, end quotes, near the end of filming.
The overall model was a steel frame mostly on dry land that was clad with metal panels
(14:09):
to look like a ship.
To simulate sinking, the bow was progressively tilted into a pool of water by lifting the
entire frame and cutting the column shorter.
For the final scenes, the bow section was a separate set supported by a series of hydraulically
actuated cables and buoyant foam blocks to make the set appear to float while it was
(14:32):
being actuated with the cables.
The flotation blocks could not support the weight.
Unfortunately, a series of modifications needed to improve realism resulted in support
failures that let the set sink, interrupted filming, left expensive actors and crews idle
and impacted actor confidence in the structure.
(14:53):
On their own website as kind of like a testimonial to the kind of stuff they do is where I got
this information.
Justin, if you can read.
Sure.
You can't read.
No.
Yeah, sorry.
That was an ability question.
You can read.
That was a question.
Yeah.
This is per Hogg Global.
(15:15):
The problem with the set at the time we arrived was that they weren't really certain what
had occurred.
All they knew was that it was suspended on cables and flotation blocks at the time that
it had partially collapsed, said David Teasdale, Hogg principal engineer and VP of engineering
sciences.
(15:36):
We had to wait a day while the tank was drained and we took that time to learn the structure
review plans, talk to the designers and users and tour some of the other sets where the
filming continued.
The set had broken and partially sank once earlier and different groups had different
concerns about why.
Once the tank was drained, we observed that one support leg had broken loose, kicked out
(15:59):
and allowed the set of the ship to tilt into the pit of water.
And has since more flotation blocks were called for to improve the buoyant look during filming.
And there was only so much room under the set to fit them in.
When the extra blocks were added, the cross braces had to be moved higher on the columns.
The structural contractor had completed his work and left the site.
(16:22):
So he subcontracted a local welding crew to do the work from an engineer's plan.
One main support leg had pulled loose due to a bad weld and the bad weld was one of
many.
The solution was pretty simple.
First and foremost, the repair needed to be implemented quickly because time was money.
Time is money.
(16:43):
And secondly, since it had failed once before, we needed to restore trust in the set.
Therefore hog engineers were included in the repair oversight.
So who originally welded this thing together then?
I want to tread lightly here because we're going to enter a lot of stereotypes when I
say Mexican construction labor.
(17:07):
It's technically they would have hired local people mixed in with skill positions that
they brought to the set.
And kind of like when we have made a light jest of our camera brethren who we all love,
there's a lot of stereotypes in our departments.
(17:27):
I know, I know, I know guys.
We love you Penny.
We do love you Penny.
We love Penny.
That's about it.
I have a few more on my list.
I can get up to seven.
I can get higher than that actually.
To name that tune.
(17:48):
But you know, in our stereotypes and stuff, we also make jabs at like our construction
departments, you know, like you don't want them to build a real house, you know, kind
of jokes.
But in the reality is that everyone is skilled, everyone is talented.
These are the realities, they're all just jokes.
But we are in a situation where I don't know what kind of labor was hired.
(18:12):
I was just curious if it was these engineers to begin with or if they if it was like a
set crew.
I think it's safe to say at least one bad welder was hired.
Well, at least one if there were multiple bad welds.
Right.
I mean, but I mean, I know how to weld, but I'm not going to weld a ship together.
(18:32):
Well, and you know, this is this is a unique build, you know, so you're you're bringing
people in to do something that is probably unprecedented for a lot of the stuff that
they're used to doing.
I mean, there's a lot of possibilities to to point eight from point A to point B.
(18:53):
I was just curious.
I have something.
Very good question.
Looked into that.
I used to weld ships.
I did.
Really?
Yeah, I used to I used to weld these.
I was like, you would have been like 12 at the time.
Child labor.
Yeah, no.
(19:13):
We built these we built these giant pontoons that would that they would put treads on and
they call them marsh buggies.
Yeah.
And they put like excavators on them.
And, you know, they're excavators that go into the swamps and things like that.
Yeah, no, I've got to.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And I've got like eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars a piece.
(19:33):
That's why he only has two.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So my Wednesday, Friday, my Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, I take the day off.
Right.
So anyway, Justin, as you were saying, I mean, the the the process, I mean, I know this this
this ship wasn't meant to float or anything, but, you know, there was many welders.
(19:56):
It was.
It did float.
It was in the float.
No, no, no.
Oh, this.
Wait, what?
The set ship is I mean, it's on hydraulics and other support beams and it was made to
look to float.
Yeah.
So it can tilt and do those kind of things.
But it still has to be somewhat seaworthy.
No, no, no, not at all.
(20:17):
So how did it sink if it's it was the hydraulics because the support.
Got it.
Got it.
Got it.
Yes.
That's why sink is in quotes.
Got it.
Got it.
If you're a dumb dumb like me, you're welcome for me.
You know, and I don't get it either.
It's fine.
I get it now.
I get it now.
But wait, where like what company was that for?
(20:40):
It was this company called Wilco out in Lafayette.
And I had no idea.
Jeff Twain.
Man, talk about a man about it.
They also built Marsh Buggies.
So that was how they got started.
And then they started playing music.
So are you saying the song Impossible Germany is about bad welds?
Yeah.
That's fucking crazy, man.
(21:01):
I thought it was I'm the man that loves you.
We learned so much on this podcast.
It is wild.
It is wild.
So this is going to be a callback to Justin when you were talking about answering the
Craigslist ad.
Soldering was one of the skills I believe that you needed.
Right.
(21:22):
So I had like mini welding.
Right.
Which is mini welding.
So now I'm curious.
Did you did you solder first or did you weld first?
Which came first?
I was a welder first.
Welder first.
All right.
Soldering came natural.
Same.
Yeah.
I never really thought about soldering as just baby welding.
I've not really done a lot of soldering, but it's really kind of cute now.
(21:44):
I know.
Don't you want to get a little soldered?
Well, the 478 certification class is called baby welding.
Sign up before there's no room.
My theory, because we don't want to cast dispersions on any of our Mexican brethren, is that one
(22:05):
welder, he just forgot his welding mask that day.
Yeah.
So the only thing that he could do was he just had to close his eyes and hope for the
best.
Yeah.
Which you do.
Didn't work out.
Yeah.
You have to do that sometimes.
Don't tell me that.
I don't want to know that.
Or he went blind looking at the welding arc for too long.
(22:27):
That's sad.
Yeah.
You should have started with baby welding.
This is why we need unions.
Exactly.
Okay.
So I need to find where I was.
So one interesting tidbit about this fun ironic problem that occurred is how it was not widely
(22:52):
reported as I was alluding to earlier compared to so many other aspects of this gigantic
project.
So I think at the end you just say, luckily no one was harmed.
And except for background people, I'm sure they were.
But without a doubt.
Without a doubt.
That's a poor background.
Oh god, they're just.
(23:13):
How many background were on it?
Total?
Yeah.
How many background were on the show?
Oh god.
The country of Mexico.
I mean if I had to.
Well I mean there were 2,224 people on the actual Titanic.
I would think.
Souls.
Chris, this is probably a better question for you.
(23:34):
I know it's a math question, but I mean what?
400 minimum?
I mean who knows.
I remember seeing the show for the first time and the visual effects, they were groundbreaking
at the time.
And now that I look at them, they're really not that great.
(23:54):
But they used a lot of.
Don't tell Cameron.
I'm sorry James.
They used a lot of CG for when the ship is sailing and all that.
But there's certainly a lot of scenes with actual people in the dining hall and the dancing
scene and all that stuff.
I mean it wouldn't, in a show like this size, they don't care about the budget so I'm sure
(24:15):
that there were hundreds a day.
There had to have been hundreds and hundreds.
Hundreds a day.
Like at least three to four hundred a day.
For the scenes where you needed it.
Why not?
Midge also demanded that all floating bodies are real people.
No dummies.
No.
I'm kidding.
I mean I bought it.
(24:35):
I know, I know.
I was like really?
Yeah, that tracks.
It's plausible.
That's what's so bad about it.
So I just Googled how many background extras were in the movie.
I can't find it but I did find an article.
Okay, good talk.
I did find an article that says, why only short extras were cast in Titanic?
And the Subheadline says, the director reveals his trick to conveying the vast scale of the
(24:59):
doomed ocean liner without spending more money.
He was trying to make the set look bigger by hiring shorter extras.
I just want to be clear.
It's wild.
We're shooting in Mexico and you got little people.
I didn't see a lot of people that looked Mexican.
No, I didn't either.
(25:22):
I mean perhaps I wasn't paying attention.
Or perhaps it doesn't matter.
They white faced them.
I mean, unfortunately that also is not completely out of the question.
So let's get to my favorite part of this entire thing.
I did not know about this until recently.
(25:46):
Actually learning about this is what turned my attention on to researching Titanic.
But I called this last section, who spiked the punch air chowder.
So I don't know if y'all are familiar with this or not.
So during an earlier portion of the general shoot, they started in Nova Scotia I believe
(26:11):
before going to Mexico.
So it was supposed to be the last day of shooting in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, where about 80
crew members fell ill while exhibiting strange behavior, including James Cameron and Bill
Paxton amongst others.
It was reported that Cameron shouted, quote, there's something in me.
(26:32):
Get it out.
While a conga line formed around him.
And yes, you heard that correctly.
A conga line.
Rick Courtney was a set PA at the time who also happened to have a sailing and medic
background as well.
In his recount, it was supposed to be like I mentioned the last day of shooting when
(26:55):
everyone broke for lunch after midnight.
Heather, you got that?
Well, first of all, this is clearly a disgruntled crew.
Don't worry.
We'll get there.
We'll get there.
OK, so this guy Rick Courtney, who was this set PA, said people started acting strange.
I remember hearing on the headset that people were acting very bizarre down in the lunch
(27:17):
room.
I was up in the production office.
James Cameron, who came to me, he said, you're a medic, right?
I go, yep.
And he said, well, fix me.
There's something wrong with me.
And Courtney went on to say that Cameron described a wide array of symptoms like hallucinations
and a drunken feeling.
And as more people fell ill and things quickly got out of hand, Rick described, we had a
(27:39):
whole bunch of people who were acting extremely bizarre.
And I decided there's too many people here.
This is not an isolated incident.
So we activated EMS and got a bunch of ambulances.
And another crew member at the time, a set painter named Marilyn McAvoy, also recounted
the experience.
Justin?
Yeah, it was kind of like a very dreamy, very surreal, recalls McAvoy.
(28:04):
Unfortunately for Marilyn, she also ate the chowder.
I was still functioning.
I wasn't nauseous or anything like that, but it seemed like it affected people in many,
many different ways, says McAvoy.
She describes a feeling like she had drank three beers and had a joint, but it didn't
experience the flashbacks.
(28:26):
Some others did.
I didn't have a lot of experience with psychedelic drugs.
There was some people I knew were having some really bad, really tough times.
I think it was kind of a flashback related situation.
This woman has clearly never done drugs with her time.
At the time.
Until, and for this.
Trying to describe a trip.
(28:50):
So the atmosphere at the emergency room was also a bit chaotic as dozens of patients felt
varied effects of the drug.
People were just really active and wanted to party and wanted to just have fun.
There's other people who really just needed to be alone, she said.
There was a conga line.
(29:11):
There was a wheelchair race there.
This sounds awesome.
I know.
I want to be working on this day, day playing on this day.
Hell yeah.
I remember in the morning when we finally all came down, they gave us this charcoal
drink to drink.
So I guess it took the toxins out of our bodies.
So years later, even the late Bill Paxton would recount the event in a 2015 interview
(29:35):
with Larry King and quote, you see some people freaking out.
Some people are conga dancing.
Everyone well established conga.
Some people are euphoric.
I knew I was stoned on something pretty bad or awesome.
To this day, the mystery remains unsolved.
Nova Scotia police at the time had a near impossible ability to solve the case, leaving
(29:58):
a lot of speculation behind.
The local authorities had also rationalized that PCP isn't really a local drug.
So therefore it must have come from an American on the shoot.
Where was the drugs are when we needed it?
So I wanted to say crack work investigation there boys as PCP isn't common anywhere.
(30:19):
Right.
Like early nineties in New York City.
Hard hitting investigation by the Nova Scotia authorities.
And also reveal it was PCP.
So the production had left pretty quickly after the crime had occurred.
So the likely perpetrator had left with them.
(30:39):
The dispersing of witnesses also made it difficult to interview and assess what had happened
other than a conga line.
We know that happened.
So the Department of Health had confirmed the chowder, I believe it was a lobster chowder
by the way, had been spiked with a Fensiclidine, aka PCP, aka Angel Dust, aka Tic Tac, Supergrass,
(31:04):
Sherman's, Boat, Rocket Fuel to name a few.
Dust?
Yeah.
Oh, you got Angel Dust.
There you go.
Oh, my favorite after school special was-
Oh yeah, Helen Hunt.
Angel Dusted.
Yeah.
It was called Angel Dusted.
Yeah.
She jumped out of the window.
High school track star that gets hooked on PCP.
(31:26):
No one has ever been hooked on PCP.
No, no, no, no.
Well, when I ran track, we took PCP to do-
You ran real fast.
Nice.
So fast.
I missed after school specials.
But it was in a conga line.
Yeah.
I love that you remember that.
Do you guys remember Thumper, the best boy grip?
He went to Atlanta at some point.
(31:47):
I worked with him on American Horror Story.
So he worked on this show and he definitely confirmed that it did, like this did happen.
And he never, I don't think that he was on it, but I mean, it was just sort of like,
what was it?
Was it PCP?
Was it acid?
Was it X?
And I don't think that he ever really knew, but he said it was definitely like a disgruntled
(32:14):
crew member.
Oh, 100%.
A thousand percent.
Clearly.
Just trying to fuck him over.
But I mean, like, camera and over that is.
But like, if a conga line is the worst thing that happens, it sounds like it was literally
the best day on the show.
It really does.
That's why I had day playing that one day.
The most impressive thing is they actually returned to shooting later after everybody
(32:37):
came down.
You're kidding.
Yeah, they didn't go home.
Like they actually went back to work.
Fucking wild.
Well, the sun's down now.
We got to go.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
Oh, Lord.
Wheelchair race.
So, yeah, so the Department of Health in Canada did confirm through a series of beakers, I'm
sure, testing that it was PCP.
(32:58):
Always beakers.
That's right.
So, y'all are going to love this.
At the time of the incident, there was wide speculation as to the why part of the whole
thing.
A disgruntled crew member has been the longstanding guest by most, especially considering old
midges on professional behavior as a screamer.
But that might not be the actual answer.
(33:19):
Other guesses over the years include, A, the film was already over budget even at this
stage of the shoot, and this incident could have been an attempt to buy more shooting
time after filing an insurance claim, thus increasing funding for the film in a roundabout
way.
Because of this, the investigators chose to keep the case confidential at the time.
(33:40):
B, it was simply a prank gone wrong.
Someone, quote, spiked the punch, so to speak, and not understanding quantities, doses, et
cetera, it got out of hand.
D, the lead caterer sort of had a similar opinion, insisting that, quote, that's some
Hollywood shit, and they brought it to the party, end quote.
(34:01):
That's fair.
Clearly he's Canadian.
But D, my favorite, because y'all are going to love the audacity, James Cameron offered
his own opinion in an interview in 2023, where Cameron told a Canadian radio show that it
might have stemmed from someone wanting to get the caterers in trouble after having an
argument with them.
Quote, of course, the operating theory was that I was such a psychomaniac that the perpetrator
(34:27):
was trying to get back at me, but I reject that theory out of hand for obvious reasons.
Spoken like a true narcissist.
Where I want to ask y'all, what are the obvious reasons?
I have no idea what he's talking about.
So whatever the case, it's highly likely to remain an unsolved case for aforementioned
(34:49):
reasons.
It was a crew member.
Let's just call it as it is.
I want to meet the guy or girl that did it and shake their hand.
I didn't include it in here, but there was a crew member that was fired a few days before
(35:12):
for drug possession, but according to Canadian authorities, they cleared that person of having
anything to do with this.
And also it's just the fact that it's PCP.
I mean, well, first of all, only an American could have brought that, but it's just, it's
such a random drug.
(35:32):
I mean, I'm not saying like one drug makes more sense than another necessarily, but the
commonality of a drug would make more sense and it's just not a common drug.
It seems like he tried to get one thing, but the dealer was out.
He's like, Hey man, can I get a bunch of cocaine?
Yeah.
Yeah.
(35:52):
I don't have any cocaine.
All I got is this PCP right now.
Ah, shit.
Dude, you're in Canada.
I can't get you any ass about and get you some PCP.
They'll never guess it's us.
We've got some fermented maple syrup.
It'll really fuck you up.
I'm telling you.
Ah, God bless the Canadians.
I love them so.
(36:13):
I got this shit all the way from Saskatchewan.
You're going to love it.
You won't believe, dude.
I got this from Eskimo, it's fermented whale blubber.
You're going to trip balls.
You're going to trip balls.
So you had heard, I mean, as you were just saying, so you had heard of this.
(36:34):
Yeah.
I remember learning that Thumper was on that show and asking him the story.
We've got to track down Thumper.
We probably shouldn't.
But now this was 12 years ago.
But I think that it was literally, I just asked him and he confirmed.
(36:58):
This was in 2013.
This was definitely talked about.
It was online.
I don't know.
But he wasn't dodgy about it.
No, no.
I mean, he was like, you're clear, Thumper.
We're not suggesting any of that.
He wasn't offering you chowder.
Yeah.
Well, I was buying drugs at the time.
(37:21):
What was it?
It just kind of came up in conversation.
PCP to be exact.
There were some letters involved.
Angel dust.
Also didn't know that boat is a nickname for PCP.
I thought that was kind of fitting.
I didn't know that.
Look at that.
Maybe that's why.
Hey.
It's a very astute drug.
(37:42):
Exactly.
So I'll sink this boat.
The last thing that I wanted to bring up before winding down, this is going to speak to our
why did Jack have to die door theory.
So James Cameron apparently cannot handle fan debate.
(38:04):
So the last thing here, and it's almost guaranteed to get in Heather Rae's craw as I wrote here,
James Cameron got so worked up over the years at the audacity of fans to question why Jack
had to die that there was plenty of room on that floating door that he paid to have tests
done.
This is a real thing he did.
(38:25):
Oh my God.
Chris, can you read?
I mean, I can read, but I want to read the riot act to James Cameron.
And I can't.
I have an app.
I just also want to put it in perspective that he is clear that it wasn't anybody doing
it to mess with him.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
So let's just keep that in mind as Chris goes on.
(38:50):
While promoting Avatar, the ego maniac, James Cameron.
Oh, sorry.
Sorry.
That's not what it really said, guys.
That's what I see.
Oh no.
Anywho, old Camerooni told Post Media in an interview, we have since done a thorough forensic
analysis with a hypothermia expert who reproduced the raft from the movie.
(39:16):
And we're going to do a little special on it that comes out in February.
We took two stunt people, both died.
That's not true.
That's not in there either.
Everybody, you're going to have to take a grain of salt.
We took two stunt people who were the same body mass of Kate and Leo.
He's such a full of shit.
So full of shit.
(39:37):
I'm really like...
Also, also rich people problems.
Yeah, right.
And we put sensors all over them and inside them.
Inside them?
What stuff?
Really?
Yeah, it was just...
It was the butt stuff.
Butt stuff.
There it is.
You couldn't give me enough boat to make...anyway.
(39:57):
Inside them.
And we put it in ice water, both died, and we tested to see whether they could have survived
through a variety of methods.
And the answer was no way.
I want to know the variety of methods.
They could both have survived.
Only one could survive.
Why?
Cameron further argued that Jack's death was necessary in order to strengthen the almost
(40:22):
mythical love affair between the two.
Jack needed to die.
Cameron said, it's like Romeo and Juliet.
It's a movie about love and sacrifice and mortality.
The love is measured by the sacrifice.
Oh, fuck you.
Kate made no sacrifice.
That's true.
She's also a bit of a harlot, but that's another story.
(40:44):
Maybe after 25 years...
No, I love it.
I love it.
There's no judgment.
Dude, I want to go on a cruise and do it in a car.
Maybe after 25 years, I won't have to deal with this anymore.
Nope.
Yes.
Sensitive much, Midge.
Yeah.
So I wanted to mention real quick that his further argument about how Jack's death was
(41:06):
necessary is the part we all know and he just mansplained to everyone.
Yeah, clearly he needed to die.
We understand the story.
I get the why part.
Yeah, clearly he needed to die for the story.
We did this crazy science thing to prove it, but that doesn't matter.
(41:26):
It needed to happen anyway.
It's called storytelling.
Anyway, I had to include that because I just thought that was amazing and I mean, wow,
hubris.
So starting to wind us up, I guess suppose that, dear friends, is where we are going
(41:47):
to end our coverage of the behind the scenes of the making of Titanic.
I did want to have a quick aside.
We didn't have time to deep dive, but I did want to mention it just because it was quite
the rabbit hole to distract me.
So the 1997 Titanic installment is at least the fourth movie that's Titanic specific.
(42:14):
The very first three movies ever done about the Titanic were all German films.
Most random and interesting is that during World War II, Nazi superstar, and I mean that
jokingly, Joseph Goebbels was taken aback by the success of Casablanca, which carries
an anti-fascist message in the story.
(42:34):
So he and the Nazi propaganda machine made the third installment, a third German installment
of the Titanic, spending over $180 million in today money to make their own propaganda
movie.
Was it all three of them?
Is it the total of all three of them?
No, no, no.
It's just the one.
(42:55):
I should clarify it.
The first two movies were just regular movies.
The first movie actually was made not long after the actual Titanic sank.
I think it was maybe like late teens.
And then the second movie was maybe in the late 20s, early 30s.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was probably just a cardboard cutout.
A silent by a talkie.
(43:15):
But anyway, there's a whole giant rabbit hole about the making of this insane movie.
The, oh, and I should also, spoiler alert, capitalism is what sank the Titanic.
So there you go.
But the ice, you know, I don't necessarily disagree.
And the Nazi stuff I definitely disagree with, obviously.
(43:36):
But like, you know, capitalism, I was just curious because I haven't seen it.
Is it going to be like an editorial cartoon where the iceberg says capitalism while it
like, really leave no, no error for question.
But anyway, I just want to throw that in there.
Maybe we'll we'll do a full episode, a lore episode on that down the road.
(44:00):
But I think for now, we all need to take a break from anything related to the Titanic.
So let's get into some final thoughts.
Where to even start with a question?
I guess knowing what you know now, does that change anything as far as your opinion of
the movie?
I hate it more now.
(44:21):
I hate it even more, which I didn't think was possible.
Now let me just set this up.
Kate Winslet respect though goes way up.
Kate Winslet is respect for sure and Kathy Bates.
Oh, we haven't even talked about Kathy Bates.
No, no, I went down a Molly Brown rabbit hole on this.
That's yeah.
Yeah, but let me just put it into perspective.
I saw this movie in the theaters and my mother was on one side of me and my boyfriend at
(44:45):
the time was on the other side of me and they were both crying and I'm just laughing at
them and just pissed off at this movie basically.
And I'm just like, just die already.
Like enough.
Like I've been here for three hours.
I can't get this time back.
And these assholes next to me are making it worse.
(45:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, you know, and when Jed told me we're doing this movie, I was like, I have not seen
that movie in almost 30 years on purpose.
And I can't believe you're making me watch this again.
Thanks a lot, Jed.
Thanks, Jed.
Yeah.
And I did get him back by giving play by play.
Which I actually enjoyed.
(45:29):
And you, when you actually mentioned about your boyfriend at the time and mother crying,
and I believe I responded with something like, so I guess it didn't work out.
And if I remember correctly, you were like, no, I hated the movie.
And I was like, oh no, I meant like the boyfriend.
You're like, oh no, that didn't work out either.
Oh no, actually, I just thought you meant all dudes in general.
(45:50):
And then you're like, oh no, just that one.
I'm like, oh yeah, definitely.
But yeah, other thing too.
Yeah.
Because I would imagine if you sit three hours through anything and you're having not the
visceral reaction that your partner is having that there's probably time to question some
things.
I lost a lot of respect for him that day.
I will say that.
(46:11):
If there's ever a movie, this is like a 20 something year too late PSA, but if there's
ever a movie that needed an intermission, it was Titanic.
Oh my God.
I wouldn't have come back.
That's why they didn't have an intermission.
I saw a packed theater.
It was a packed theater and me and my friends sat on the front row far left.
And this is right before stadium seating was a common thing.
(46:32):
So even in a healthy like 18 year old version of myself, I walked out of the theater like,
ah, ah, ah, ah, my neck, my neck, my neck.
I mean, it was such a painful way to watch a movie that left such a bad taste in my mouth.
And I can still appreciate the movie for what it is, you know, scale wise and all these
(46:52):
kinds of things.
But I know the cinematography.
Yeah.
Stunning.
Costumes like you mentioned.
Amazing performances are fine.
There's nothing.
The story just sucks.
Billy Zane did a great job of making us hate him.
Oh my God.
I hate him so much.
But that's good acting.
I know.
I know.
But God, I hated him.
You should listen to your friend, Billy Zane.
Yeah.
(47:13):
Incidentally, Billy Zane is Justin's favorite actor of all time.
I am really mad we didn't get to see him actually die on screen.
I was waiting.
And as I'm texting Jed throughout, I was like, wait a minute, did I just miss him die?
Wait, I got to rewind it.
And I was like, nope, didn't die, didn't die.
And then he never dies.
Still didn't die.
I mean, he dies, but not on camera.
He dies in verbal mention.
I wanted to see.
(47:33):
I needed to see it.
I needed to see it.
I needed to see it.
I needed to see it.
And there's a lot more.
For closure.
There's so much more like little trivia stuff that I left out.
Like the guy that is referred to as Propeller Guy that takes the big fall.
It's the Propeller.
Yeah, a few times.
Little clickety clack, spinny spin.
(47:54):
That guy was apparently jokingly modeled off of John Landau, the producer.
And it was like, so what's the joke here?
Ha ha, I just killed off the producer.
I didn't quite understand the humor part of the inside of that, but I guess it's something
James Cameron would have to explain.
I mean, it was Landau's idea.
(48:16):
Yeah, maybe it was.
I'm thinking the CG guys got some of the clam chowder.
One of the things I read.
Food for thought, pun intended, I guess.
But one of the things that I had read, I think it was one of the five Collider articles,
(48:36):
that they were speculating that is this how Avatar, the impetus for Avatar, because James
Cameron had a hallucinating trip, and then came up with the idea that there would be
these beings that can fly on these things.
And it's like they're using their hair to jack in essentially to the animals.
And all the hypothermia with everybody blue from the hypothermia.
(48:57):
Yeah.
It's like your dream.
Yeah, man.
Peanuts.
Peanuts.
Yeah.
The answer is peanuts.
But yeah, any other thoughts?
Did you know that the woman who played old Rose was actually a survivor of the Titanic?
Oh, that's why she would...
No.
That was real Rose.
(49:17):
Are you serious?
No.
Well, there isn't a real Rose.
Yeah.
She was.
I did know she was an actual survivor, though.
Yeah.
What?
Yep.
Okay.
But I do also want to, and this was the first thing that I mentioned to Jed in my two hour,
three hour long, text exchange with him.
Is that Rose was 16 in this movie, if you do the math.
(49:38):
Yeah, she did the math.
Oh.
Yeah.
Because she was, what was it?
She was 84 when...
It was 84 years.
Yeah, and Carrie the One.
It was 84 years.
She died and...
The checks, it's Leo.
Minus the second second.
Yeah, because it's supposed to be in real time, right?
It's supposed to be...
Theoretically.
It's supposed to be in 1997.
(49:58):
Only nine years younger than his threshold.
Yeah.
And he was a young guy then.
I know, things just never change.
Yeah, it's kind of balanced out there.
Things never change.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I was just like, ew.
Yeah, so I thought this movie sucked.
And part of that is that I'm just kind of a contrarian asshole if people really love
(50:22):
a thing that I'm trying to poke holes in it.
It's a personal problem, guys, I'm working on it.
But I saw...
One of those.
So, but this movie, right?
So it came out in 1997 and the visual effects were just, they were groundbreaking and it
was supposed to be like, the scale of it was fucking incredible and it was supposed to
be, no matter what you thought of the story, at least visually was stunning.
(50:43):
It was made with an Obtanium too.
So there you go.
But I saw this movie for the first time on an airplane.
Oh God.
And so my screen...
An airship.
Was like, it was like four engines.
He took a zeppelin.
So...
You're afraid you're gonna sink?
I took the zeppelin from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and on that one, that Nazi
(51:07):
vessel, they had...
He punched a guy because he didn't have a ticket.
Totally did.
And because that's what you do in Germany during the war.
The World War of Two, which was a long time ago.
Right.
It's like 80, like literally 80 years ago.
(51:28):
Anyway, so the whole, all the spectacle was lost.
You couldn't see shit because it was on the tiny little screen.
And so all you had to go on was the story.
And I was like, what fucking fourth grader wrote this shit?
What is this?
(51:49):
The story is garbage.
And I am kind of contrarian, but when you take away the visual aspect of the movie,
I just thought that, yes, it sucked.
Agreed.
Visually, it's stunning.
I'm not saying anything else.
I didn't put it in here, but where the numbers don't lie is how much it made.
So that's where we can't...
(52:10):
There's no accounting for taste though, either.
I mean, that's true.
Over half of the country has less than a sixth grade reading level.
To make a full circle back to the beginning and how he loves to go over budget, this is
a 200 something million dollar movie that made over a billion dollars.
That's a pretty good return on your investment.
(52:32):
Yeah.
At the end of the day, it's like jokes on us.
Nidge.
Well, jokes on fucking James Cameron because even on the fucking two inch screen, James
Cameron, I could clearly tell that the door was big enough for both of them.
It took up the whole tiny screen.
So you can fucking suck it.
You know what's weird is the way she was lying on it with all of her arms and legs out like
(52:54):
a starfish, really eating up space on it.
I thought that was rude.
It was just rude.
I mean, and he saves her like 20 times in that movie.
Well, remember there was a moment where Jack's going like, hey, can I get up there?
He should have just let her jump the first time and he probably would have survived.
So there you go.
(53:17):
Best way to watch this movie is to get the two piece VHS set and throw away the first
one.
Just watch the devastation.
Just watch the second one.
Okay.
I do want to ask, having said that none of us are necessarily a fan of this, favorite
movie moment in the movie.
(53:39):
I'll go first.
Propeller guy.
I'll go first.
And the third class people are behind the gate and they finally break it down.
The one guy who is one of Leo's friends comes by and as he passes the dude that was keeping
him back, punches him out.
Just punches him as he's running.
I'm like, yes, that's what I'm talking about.
(54:00):
Absolutely necessary.
Why is it not the second second class?
Just asking.
Because that would be stupid.
Do they have a second?
Is that a thing?
No.
We don't math too good.
I ain't too good with numbers.
Can't get up to three.
(54:21):
You have to go second second.
I did second two.
One two.
Second two.
Banana.
11 team.
Cuisinart.
And there it is.
Do you have a favorite propeller guy?
I was just throwing that out there.
When it was over?
When it said the end credits.
(54:41):
I mean, that was my second favorite part, honestly.
But I do want to just touch on Kathy Bates.
Kathy Bates just being present.
Because she's amazing, first of all, as a person and as an actor.
Like incredible.
And I did go down, like as I said, a little Molly Brown rabbit hole and she was she married
(55:03):
for love, even though she was looking for a rich man, right?
Turns out Marion, this poor dude, and he becomes this engine.
He's a self-taught engineer and he's he is in mining and like engineers this thing and
they give him stock options and a seat on the board and becomes like loaded.
Right.
And then she becomes like an she because her father was an abolitionist, by the way, first
(55:27):
of all, she comes from good stock.
So.
And then she was a suffragette.
She was she worked with the Red Cross and she ran for before the women even had the
vote.
She ran for Congress, I think.
But she I mean, she was like she was awesome.
(55:48):
The unsinkable Molly Brown.
I need to see them.
I'm not a musical.
When did she start volunteering at the nursing home where she meets the.
When does she become Tawanda?
Is that what you're asking?
Yes.
I believe it was shortly thereafter.
Oh, yes.
Really there when she, you know, got to live every life to the every moment to the fullest
(56:10):
in your life.
And it was it's it's basically a sequel.
That's why her book is called Secrets in the Sauce.
That is her autobiography.
Ah, OK.
Molly Brown.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes, Molly Brown.
I thought the secret was the PCP and the chowder chowder chowder.
No, that's the secret sauce.
(56:30):
Yeah, that is the secret sauce.
All right, on that note, I got no segue.
Zoe's going to finish this out.
Thanks, Zoe.
Appreciate it, Zoe.
Tell us what the Titanic was like underneath the ocean.
Do you like what we're doing here?
Do you have thoughts, comments, questions?
(56:52):
Maybe you have an idea or suggestion for topics you want to hear about?
Well, you can find us on the Intrawebs.
You can email us at filmfolklorepodcast at gmail dot com.
You can find us on the social medias, Instagram, the Film Folklore Podcast.
We have a Facebook group called Film Folklore, Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it,
(57:14):
at the Film Folk.
And yeah, thanks for joining us today.
All right.
Thanks, everybody.
Popular Podcasts
Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com