August 6, 2025 • 64 mins
When ambition and rule-breaking collide in the deepest parts of the ocean, the consequences can be catastrophic. Join Alice and Zach as they explore the shocking 2023 implosion of OceanGate's Titan submersible, which claimed five lives during an expedition to the Titanic wreckage. Discover how a series of controversial design decisions, regulatory shortcuts, and repeatedly ignored warnings from industry experts led to this modern tragedy, raising profound questions about safety, innovation, and the future of extreme tourism.
Sources:
- Documentary: "OceanGate Is Worse Than You Thought" by The Fool
- Documentary: "Fatal Flaws: The OceanGate Story" (2024) by 7NEWS Australia
Find FINAL BOARDING CALL online:
Website: finalboardingcallpodcast.com
Instagram: @FinalBoardingCallPod
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Credits:
Final Boarding Call is hosted by Alice Stern and Zach Stemas, researched and written by Alice Stern, produced and edited by Alice Stern and Zach Stemas.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Picture this a cramped carbonfiber tube, roughly the size of a
van descending into the crushingdarkness of the North Atlantic.
Inside five passengers sitshoulder to shoulder as they plunge
towards the world's most famousshipwreck, 12,500 feet below.
(00:31):
Today we are about to experience whathappens when ambitious innovation and
corner cutting collide in one of themost unforgiving environments on earth.
So stow your tray tables, fastenyour seat belts, and prepare for
(00:52):
some extreme turbulence becausethis is final boarding call.
I dunno what I'm smelling.
Is it me?
Am I the problem?
T Swift would say so.
Okay.
All right.
(01:13):
Here we go.
Go ahead and talk for me.
You're not the boss of me.
Okay, sounds great.
Wow, that was weird.
Boop.
So I'm just gonna start this off and say.
I feel as if we're talking about thesubmarine thing that dove just a few years
(01:34):
ago to look at the Titanic, which wasjust some rich dude that bought it and
had no idea what he was doing or building.
Okay.
So some of that is factual, some ofit is a little off, but we are talking
about that story, which is known widelyas Ocean Gate, uh, ocean Gate Titan.
(01:58):
So yes, Zach.
Well, you're about to deep dive.
Yeah.
You like that?
You like what I did there?
Bazinga.
Bazinga.
Okay.
Hello and welcome to Final Boarding Call.
I am your disaster obsessed host Alice.
And I'm Zach.
A little sick.
A little worse for wear.
(02:19):
Oh, honey.
But we're here.
We're ready to go.
We're here and we're ready to go.
I love it.
Before we dive in, quickreminder to you, listener.
Wow.
Do you hear all that?
Is that the rain?
No, the mic.
Oh my gosh.
All right.
Trying again.
(02:40):
Woo.
Okay.
So yes, ocean Gate Titan.
That is what we were talking about.
That's the story thatwe're covering today.
Before we dive in, listener, you friend,please rate, review and subscribe
wherever you get your podcasts.
And tell a friend.
(03:00):
We always love, sharing thelove, and that goes for you.
Apple Podcast folks.
Why aren't you rating and reviewing?
I know we know you're listening.
We see the listens.
We see the listens, and we see no ratingsother than you are the, you are the
least active listeners of all people.
Stop.
We're just gonna shame them.
Shame, shame.
(03:21):
You get no stickers, no,you get all the stickers.
But please go ahead andreview, review and subscribe.
And if you send us a screenshot,we will send you a sticker.
So just let us know that you'verated the show and also know that I'm
sympathetic as an Apple Podcast listener.
I don't know how to use their app.
It's garbage redacted.
(03:43):
Redact can't say thatbecause Apple will get mad.
No, you, you're allowedto have an opinion.
We, we live in the United States for now.
You're allowed to have an opinion.
That's a whole different topicand we're not gonna dive into it.
Okay.
This episode is based ona few different sources.
Documentaries from The Fooland Seven News Australia.
(04:08):
And in those, there were variousinterviews with submarine experts,
technically called submersibleexperts, but none of them interviewed
Rose, the love of Jack from Titanic.
Okay, well, she actually plays a pivotalrole in the, not Rose, but like the real
(04:30):
Titanic does play a role in this story.
It's the cause of the whole adventure.
All right, I'm just gonna dive in.
Richard Stockton Rush, the thirdSounds rich and pretentious.
A hell of a name.
Was born into privilege on March31st, 1962 in San Francisco.
(04:56):
He wasn't just any wealthy family.
His maternal grandmother was LuisDavies, the philanthropist, whose name
Graces San Francisco's Symphony Hall.
Through his father, he descendedfrom two signers of the
Declaration of Independence.
(05:18):
Yeah, that's right, RichardStockton and Benjamin Rush.
Dude, it's a big deal.
From an early age Stockton Rushharbored ambitious dreams, he wanted
to become an astronaut and be thefirst person to set foot on Mars.
This passion for explorationmanifested in multiple ways.
(05:40):
He began scuba divingat just 12 years old.
Oh man.
Jealous.
And he earned his commercialpilot's license by 18, becoming
the youngest jet transport ratedpilot in the world at that time.
You're so unimpressed.
(06:01):
Are any of these impressive to you?
These stats I'm thrown out.
This kid has a ton of ambition.
I'm just listening to you and that'skind of my role in this podcast.
But you want me to say something?
You want it.
I bet it's probably easy to make allthese records when you don't have to go to
(06:22):
school 'cause you're just some rich bitch.
Oh boy.
Okay.
And you're saying I've gotsome passionate feelings.
You got Rich Boy passionateFeelies after graduating from
elite Phillips Exeter Academy.
Stockton Rush went on to earn adegree in aerospace engineering
from Princeton University, followedby an MBA from uc, Berkeley.
(06:48):
His career began at McDonaldDouglas as a flight tester.
Nope, start again.
His career began at McDonald Douglas as aflight test engineer on the F 15 program.
I'm gonna be honest, that partdoesn't mean that much to me.
What is that?
He's a flight test engineer for planes,and we're an Aviation disaster podcast.
(07:13):
Come on.
That's kind of cool.
That was the whole link.
I got you.
I love it.
That was great.
Okay.
McDonald Douglas also makes theDC 10, which we have talked about.
A lot.
Okay.
Later he also worked as a venturecapitalist, less excited about that.
But space explorationeventually alluded him.
(07:35):
He was told that his visual abilities,his, his vision, he had, he was
visually impaired a little bit.
He was visually impaired.
It would disqualify him frombecoming a military aviator, which
really is kind of the first stepif you wanna become an astronaut.
As his dreams of Mars faded away,Stockton Rush's gaze shifted
(07:57):
from the stars to the deep blue.
And there's a lot of it.
He wanted to live in a yellow submarine.
Just kidding.
Um, but in kind of in 2006, afterhis first ride in a submarine.
In British Columbia.
Stockton Rush became absolutelycaptivated by deep sea exploration.
(08:22):
Zach, do you wanna tell the peopleabout our submarine adventure?
'cause we also have done like acool submarine thing like this.
Well, it was not quite deep sea,but it was a good time off the coast
of Hawaii and it was not yelloweven though I was singing the song.
(08:43):
I really manifested a yellowone and it didn't work out.
No.
But we saw some cool fishes and sometotals and a couple sharks we did.
And who doesn't love a good shark?
Yeah.
Shark Week became insanely popularwhen we were in high school.
Do you remember what type of shark we saw?
A gray one.
(09:04):
Black tip Reef shark.
Are they mostly gray And they are.
Zachary, you're no fun.
God, they, uh, they hunt at night, so theywere sleeping during the day and they were
like in a cluster and they were very cute.
I love sharks.
I also have a passionfor deep sea exploration.
(09:26):
I just have less money than Stockton Rush.
So, but only by a hair.
Only by a hair.
Alright.
So in 2006 he did what we did,except he was like, I'm all in.
This is gonna become my whole personality.
He initially attempted to purchasehis own submersible, but he discovered
(09:49):
that there were fewer than 100privately owned submarines worldwide.
Probably makes the price pretty silly.
Yeah.
I mean, I feel like he's got a lotof money though, so I don't know
if he just didn't find one that waslike in spec for him, or he didn't
find one that was actually for sale.
(10:11):
Regardless as we will see thisman, money's not really an issue.
Instead, he built a small 13 foot vesselcapable of diving to only 33 feet.
It's a start.
It's a start by 2000.
It's a start.
By 2007, Stockton Rush beganexploring the idea of founding
his own submarine company.
(10:33):
Like I said, he went all in.
This is less than a year from hisfirst ever submarine adventure, and
he said, guys, I'm a billionaire.
I could, uh, yeah, let's do this.
I don't actually know how muchmoney he has, but money for sure.
He believed that there could be asignificant market for underwater tourism.
(10:55):
So a little bit of the blue origin,but like down instead of up.
Yep.
Uh, he believed that underwater tourismwould provide an alternative to the
technical challenges of scuba diving.
So basically people that were,for whatever reason, unable to
get a SCUBA certification, couldjust get in a submarine Fair.
(11:20):
Yeah.
You're not a good swimmer.
Let's put you in an underwater car.
There you go.
In 2009, he co-founded Ocean Gatewith business partner Billy Amo.
Sunline.
Sunline.
Gimme one second.
Guillermo.
Just gimme a moment.
(11:40):
Okay.
Standby.
All right.
Guillermo Zern line.
That was close to what yousaid that I actually have done.
Way worse.
I've done way worse with less letters.
So true for Stockton.
Rush Ocean Gate wasn't just abouttourism, it was about pioneering.
(12:05):
That's the washer.
Yeah, it is.
That's my bad for starting that.
For Stockton, rush Ocean Gate wasn't justabout tourism, it was about pioneering
a new approach to ocean exploration.
He frequently expressed frustration withwhat he saw as excessive regulations
hindering innovation in submarine design.
(12:26):
And you guys try too hard to makethese things like hold water out.
So I don't like that you'rekeeping me from exploring, man.
It's something like that.
In his view, the perception of dangerand underwater exploration far exceeded
the actual risk you going to learn today.
(12:46):
So well, as we already know, StocktonRush was particularly critical of the
Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993,a US law that regulated ocean tourism
vessels and prohibited commercialdives below 150 feet, which we went
(13:07):
to almost 150 feet on our dives.
I think we got 1 22.
Yeah.
He believed that these regulationsneedlessly prioritized passenger safety
over commercial innovation, a philosophy.
That would ultimately behis demise, be his demise.
That is so spot on.
(13:27):
Yes.
The belief that safety regulationswere sometimes excessive became
a cornerstone of Stockton.
Russia's approach to submersible design.
In a 2022 interview, he summedup his philosophy At some point,
safety just becomes pure waste.
(13:48):
If you wanna be safe,don't get out of bed.
It's a risk reward question.
And he believed that he could operatejust as safely by breaking some rules.
I'm the first person to be ready.
You are to break some rules.
God, you are.
But there's some thingsthat mean immediate death.
(14:09):
Like you wanna break the speed limit.
Okay.
Going 85 and a 75 isprobably not gonna end.
In end your life.
However you want to make sure that theseals aren't replaced on your submarine,
you will die a slow and painful death,like one of the worst ways to die.
Drowning and fire.
(14:30):
They're the only ones.
That's fair.
Yeah, that's definitely fair.
Both of those sound horrible.
This approach, prioritizing innovationover established safety protocols
really became the foundationof Ocean Gates business model.
And this gives me the ick, but here we go.
(14:50):
Stockton Rush frequentlycompared himself to Elon Musk.
Yes.
Oh, yes, yes.
Positioning Ocean Gate as theSpaceX of the oceans founded in
2009, ocean Gate began modestly.
First using an existing certifiedsubmersible called Antipodes.
(15:16):
Could have done betterthan that, but Okay.
Yeah, it's a it's a hell of a name.
It's literally anti and then pos, that'sthe whole thing For shallow dives near
Washington State, they explored thewreck of the SS governor sometimes
called the area's mini Titanic andstudied the SS Montebello, a sunken
(15:37):
oil tanker that posed an environmentalthreat off California's coast.
Seems harmless enough, right?
Sure, yeah.
Yeah.
He's doing, he's doing normalsubmarine tourism, in my opinion.
Yeah.
You get on a boat, you go look ata shipwreck that's not, you know,
almost 13,000 feet below the surface.
(16:00):
By 2014, ocean Gate had gained enoughnotoriety to attract celebrity clients.
You ready for this?
That year, Grammy winning artistMacklemore joined Stockton Rush
for a dive in search of therare six Gill Shark thrift shop.
(16:23):
Shark Bite.
I think it's just Macklemore,not Macklemore, but
downtown.
Downtown.
That was Macklemore, right?
That song?
Okay.
Thank you.
Or something.
I genuinely don't know, but I thinkhe did the down, like you get a moped.
Something about a moped.
Okay.
(16:44):
But for Stockton Rush, these relativelyshallow dives of only a few hundred
feet were just the beginning.
They weren't fun enough.
No, I mean truly, if you'vegot the drive, the vision.
Of this man, you're not gonna beokay with like, oh, let's go to
this little rinky dink shipwreck.
(17:06):
It's not gonna get you high.
Yeah.
Instead he's like showing thesetours, piloting the submarine, and
he's just like, yeah, and to ourleft, here's another shipwreck.
Oh my God.
That's hilarious.
Okay.
Yep.
So he had a sight set on the ultimateunderwater destination, the tnic, the
(17:32):
tit neck, which rested nearly two and ahalf miles beneath the Atlantic Ocean.
The wreck held a personal connectionfor Stockton Rush as well.
His wife, Wendy Rush, was thegreat granddaughter of Isador.
And Ida Strauss, which was of coursea wealthy couple who had perished
(17:57):
together on the Titanic, um, in 1912.
So that is horrible thatthey died on the Titanic.
The Strauss's story was even dramatized inJames Cameron's film, showing them bracing
on their bed as water filled their cabin.
(18:17):
This family connection added anotherlayer to Stockton Rush's determination.
To reach such extreme depths,ocean Gate would need a completely
different class of submersible.
You know, a submarine that'sdesigned to go 150 feet.
That's very differentthan two and a half miles.
(18:38):
Yes.
And since no existing vehicle metStockton, Russia's specifications for
innovation and cost effectiveness,he made a very fateful decision.
Ocean Gate was going toDIY, its own submersible.
(19:00):
So here we go.
And.
It is Venji.
In 2015, ocean Gate unveiledCyclops, their first custom built
submersible and it only had one eye.
Okay?
So I know that through this I've beenusing the term submersible and submarine
(19:21):
interchangeably, but they actuallyare different things, and I'm going
to explain the difference right now.
Unlike submarines that can operateindependently for extended periods,
submersibles are smaller vehicles thattypically depend on a support ship.
(19:44):
They are designed for shorter missions.
They have limited power, theycarry fewer people, typically
between only one to five occupants.
They are basically justunderwater exploration vehicles
rather than true submarines.
So we were in a submarine, but when Ithink of a submersible, I think about
(20:09):
I'm a huge like nature documentary fan.
You know, this about me, likeDavid Attenborough is absolutely
on my dream dinner party list.
But any documentary that features truedeep ocean filming, I love seeing, it's
like a little bubble, basically pod,and it sits like two people, like one
(20:33):
person steering it and then they'reback to back and the other person's
holding a camera and it looks scaryas hell, like absolutely terrifying.
You're in the pitch, black in a bubble.
But that is a submersible justto get kind of a vision there.
It's not comfy, you're not laying down.
(20:53):
From the beginning, Cyclopsreflected Stockton, Rush's philosophy
of simplicity and innovation.
Sometimes at the expenseof industry standards.
The vessel was small.
It was roughly the size of a minivanin its complete form with a clear
(21:18):
acrylic dome at one end for viewing.
And a pressure hole, the sealedcompartment that protects occupants
from the crushing water pressuretaking up most of the craft itself.
Makes sense?
Yeah.
I mean, I kind of envisionit truly as like a.
(21:39):
Oblong bubble.
Yeah.
Little bubbly.
One of the most surprisingfeatures was the control system.
Rather than using specialized equipmentdesigned for underwater vehicles, stocked
and rush opted for a modified LogitechF seven 10 video game controller, the
(21:59):
same kind that you would literallyuse to play an Xbox or a PlayStation.
And you probably heard about that.
'cause that was mm-hmm.
A pretty pivotal part of this case.
Anybody ever been playing a gameand it said, Xbox controller
disconnected, it happened.
It's so dark, Zach.
(22:20):
I love it.
I mean, it's horrible.
But o during demonstrations, StocktonRush would explain how the controller
worked with two dead man switches.
Safety features that requireconstant pressure from the operator.
If you let go because you've lostconsciousness or for any other
reason, the system immediatelystops or reverts to a safe mode.
(22:44):
Similar to the safetyswitches on lawnmowers.
You know that shut off whenyou release the handle.
Oh yeah.
For people that have never mowed alawn, my daughter knows how those work.
So you gotta like pull the handlethat's closest to the lawnmower, to you
in order to keep the lawnmower going.
Even my wife knows how to do it, eventhough she's never mowed our lawn.
(23:05):
Sh I'm just a super smart woman.
Wicked sma.
I'm wicked sma I.
While this simplified control systemmade the sub easier to operate,
it stunned industry veterans.
You're like, you did what?
Yes, you did.
What is the right term?
(23:26):
Traditional submersibles.
Use purpose-built, redundant drink controlsystems designed specifically for the
unique challenges of deep sea operation.
These are systems with multiplebackups in case of any failure.
And they've specialized componentstested to work under extreme conditions.
(23:53):
No shade to the Logitech Fseven 10, I'm sure it's great.
But you're taking it almost 13,000feet below the surface of water.
I mean, I just like, it's just crazy.
Yeah.
But it was inside.
Duh.
It's gonna be fine.
The controller was just thebeginning of o, of Ocean
(24:17):
Gate's unconventional approach.
A few years later, when developing aneven more ambitious vehicle called Titan,
initially named Cyclops two, Stockton Rushmade an even more controversial decision.
Are you ready for this, Zach?
'cause this is insane.
(24:38):
He chose to build the pressure hole, whichis the main compartment, housing the crew.
Kind of like the fuselageof an airplane, right?
Mm-hmm.
Out of carbon fiber, it's real light.
Bet he could pick thatthing up with his pancake.
Yeah.
YY yes, it is very light.
(25:02):
Um, but you need really strong whenyou're, experiencing that much pressure.
It's also considered pretty strong.
It's just also pressure formed, so, okay.
Yeah, that's fair.
That's fair.
To understand why this was soradical, we all need to understand
the extreme conditions thatsubmersibles face in the deep ocean.
(25:27):
At the depth of the Titanic,we're right around 12,500 feet.
The water pressure is approximately5,600 pounds per square inch.
Hmm.
So everywhere that you can point yourfinger to has that much weight against it.
(25:51):
It is like having 380 cars stacked onevery square inch of this submersible.
The pressure vessel mustmaintain its integrity perfectly.
Even the smallest fracturewould result in instantaneous
(26:12):
catastrophic implosion death.
Death.
This was why using carbonfiber was unheard of.
In the deep submarine submersiblecommunity, the industry standard for
deep diving submersibles was titanium.
What is the depth wherethey consider it deep?
(26:35):
Is it like a thousand feet?
I mean, that's a nice round number.
I like a thousand feet.
Yeah.
Let's see, what's the feetconsidered for deep C?
Let's see.
So the term deep sea refers to oceandepth starting at around 200 meters,
(26:57):
which is about 660 feet below the surface.
This coincides roughly withwhere sunlight begins to fade and
photosynthesis is no longer possible.
Could have just used around number, but whatever.
Oh my goodness.
You're the cutest.
Okay.
No, you get six 60.
That's as round as it's getting.
(27:18):
Alright, sane people who aren't, youknow, super ambitious and adventurous,
I guess they are using titanium orthey are using specialized steel.
These are materials with wellunderstood properties under extreme
pressure, and they have decades ofproven performance in the deep sea.
(27:43):
Don't fix what ain't broke.
I don't.
You just gotta ask yourself, somebodycan punch 5,500 pounds of pressure.
Do you want them to hit like apiece of fiberboard or do you
want them to hit something metal?
Sorry, this shit's justloud and I'm hearing it.
It feels like the air kicked on againtoo and I thought I turned it off.
(28:05):
I'm hearing the dishwasher for sure.
It is only 67 in here.
My wife's about to freeze to death.
Unless it's winter time.
Then in 67 she is sweating.
It's you.
That's hilarious.
Zach.
It was me.
I was stinky the whole time.
It's these slippers yourdaughter's been telling you.
Mama, you're stinky.
Okay.
(28:26):
Will Conan, CEO of Hydro Space Group andexecutive director of the World Submarine
Organization would later explain whythis decision raised every red flag you
can imagine research on carbon fiberfor submersibles had been conducted for
over 40 years, and virtually everyonein the industry had abandoned it.
(28:52):
While one strand of carbon fiber canpull a car, it's ineffective when pushed.
Against one.
Yeah.
High tensile strength doesn't meanthat it is hard to bend or crack.
That's exactly it.
Zach, carbon fiber cells at handlingtension, but submersibles need to be able
(29:14):
to face compression forces with the oceanpushing inward on every single side.
So carbon fiber's great for manythings, probably not for a submersible.
Right?
Yeah.
It still breaks on drift carswhen they bump each other.
Yes.
Yes.
(29:35):
Now, carbon klar, on the otherhand, would fold up like a ball.
Carbon fiber structures can alsodevelop hidden delamination.
Where the layers startseparating microscopically.
And that's difficult to detect withoutspecialized equipment over multiple
dives as the hole is repeatedly subjectedto pressure, these tiny flaws can grow
(30:01):
until catastrophic failure occurs daily.
Laminations sucks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We face that a lot with our tires.
Not a lot.
It depends on the, the tire, butit can happen and it's really
scary when it does even on a tire.
But stock in rush remained adamant.
(30:23):
He maintained that carbon fiber wasthree times better on a strength to
buoyancy basis than titanium, whichhe considered the crucial metric
underwater by strength to buoyancy.
He was referring to how strong a materialis relative to its ability to float.
Which you brought up earlier.
(30:45):
Carbon fiber is light.
Very light.
It's extremely light.
And this is a critical factor forsubmersibles that need to both descend to
great depths and then reliably come back.
Now I've got my own Google search.
Perhaps even more concerning thanthese unconventional design choices
(31:06):
was Ocean Gate's decision to bypass theindustry certification process entirely.
They just were like, now we good.
This thing's gonna go see theTitanic, but we're, it's fine.
Don't worry about it.
Submersibles that carry passengers aretypically certified by classification
societies like the American Bureau ofShipping or the DNV instead of the DMV.
(31:33):
The DNV.
Uh, which verify that the vesselsmeet rigorous safety standards.
What were you looking up, Zach?
I was looking up density differences.
Oh, what are they?
So carbon fiber is approximately 1.75
grams per cubic centimeter whiletitanium, which is the preferred method.
(31:54):
'cause of its strength is 4.5.
So it would've been very buoyant.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
If they needed to get back up top,they're just like, oh, cut bait.
Here we go.
And then they get sickfrom the rising out.
The, I don't they call it the SUDS scrubs.
No, the suds is from SpongeBob.
(32:16):
The, I love you though.
It's something like that.
Um, what sickness do scuba diversget from coming up too fast?
I know it's something like that.
They get, um, SIDS.
Infinite?
No.
Oh my gosh, no.
(32:36):
The Bens, oh, you were close.
There was a letter that matched Woof.
Okay.
There is a great Houseepisode about the Bens.
Okay.
These certification processes areextremely thorough, examining everything
(32:57):
from the whole material and constructionto the life support systems, electrical
systems, emergency protocols, and eventhe qualifications of the operators.
Every component of the submersibleis analyzed, tested, and verified
that it can withstand the extremeconditions of deep sea exploration.
(33:21):
And this guy was so rich,he paid his way through.
No, he didn't do it.
Oh, he just skipped it.
Yeah, he literally was justlike, nah, I'm too good for this.
I'm fine.
Like, I guess this is good.
I mean, the point is, isthat he is not commercial.
He is not taking out random deep Sears.
He's taking out crew and Iguess they can't really control
(33:44):
a private person doing that.
But he is taking passengers.
He took passengers, but theywere employed to do so, right?
No.
Oh, I mean, we're gonna getinto it, whatever, but like,
they were running a business.
This was a form of tourism.
Those people paid him money, theygot in this submarine of their
(34:04):
own free will and died, and yes,something horrible happened.
So for example, just to give you anidea of this certification process, it
typically requires extensive pressuretesting of the whole, not just once.
But repeatedly over thousandsof cycles to ensure that it
(34:26):
maintains integrity over time.
I can't deny knowing that that isthe certification process makes me
feel better about getting in them.
It's like this would wastested thousands of times.
Yes, a hundred percent.
Electrical systems must have redundanciesdrink so that if one fails, a
backup will immediately take over.
(34:48):
Life support systems mustdemonstrate reliable performance
with significant safety margins.
Basically, the goal is to eliminateas many potential points of failure as
possible, which makes sense when you'redoing something that is so extreme.
It's hardcore.
Titan Extreme.
It's Extreme Titan man.
(35:12):
Do you remember that show?
What was that extreme?
There was like an animal show.
The most extreme on Animal Planet.
No.
Oh my gosh.
Alright.
All of my, all of our earlynineties listeners, do you
remember the most extreme?
Hopefully that's bringingback some memories for you.
(35:33):
Titan was never certified by anyregulatory board or body Rush claimed
that the existing regulations weretoo rigid and would prevent the kind
of innovation that he was pursuing.
Instead, ocean Gate classified Titanas an experimental vessel, which
(35:53):
allowed it to operate in internationalwaters without certification.
So yeah, Zach, you might beasking how is this possible?
How is this possible?
Oh, yes, that was my question.
It helps to know that maritime regulationscan be complex and jurisdictional.
(36:17):
So in international waters, beyond theterritorial limits of a specific country
enforcement becomes a little hazy, right?
It's like, who owns this?
Nobody.
Nobody owns any of it in reality, butso true, Zach and I love that mindset.
(36:37):
However, ocean Gate took extremeadvantage of this regulatory gap
launching from international waters.
Uh, and that allowed them to bypass thestricter oversight that they probably
would face from port authoritiesin the United States or in Canada.
And this decision, alarmed expertsacross the submersible industry.
(37:01):
They were like, my guy,what are you doing?
What are you doing?
In 2018, the Manned UnderwaterVehicles Committee of the Marine
Technology Society, just like,that's probably a fun board meeting.
Essentially, the industry's leadingprofessional organization took the
(37:23):
unprecedented step of writing a letterto rush, expressing quote, unanimous
concern, end quote about Titan'sexperimental approach and warning,
warning of potential negative outcomes.
They literally were like, hi, you didn'task for our opinion, but here it is.
(37:45):
We're going to give it to you.
We want it on record thatthis isn't a good idea.
People were pretty sure thatthis wouldn't even survive.
The thousand test cycles or even afew hundred, you know, 300 foot dives.
So now they're like, you'regoing, how deep What?
Mm-hmm.
It's crazy.
(38:06):
Conan who was involved in draftingthis letter later explained
the motivation quote, this isnot a sibling rivalry issue.
This is really serious.
Look, everybody around the world isreally worried about what you're doing.
Please correct your course.
End quote, Rush's response accordingto Conan, it's like, well, I'm
(38:31):
smarter than everyone else.
Oh boy.
Ocean Gate's, former director of Marineoperations David Lockridge, also raised
serious concerns about Titan Safety.
In particular, he worried about thecarbon fiber hole and the lack of
non-destructive testing that coulddetect potential flaws without having to
(38:54):
subject the hole to dangerous pressures.
So there we have an internal whistleblowerwho's like, Hey guys, this, I don't
like this, when Lockridge persistedwith his safety concerns, he was fired.
Ugh.
Tail is old this time.
(39:15):
Yes, he was fired.
Oh, you want me to be safe?
You're fired.
Fired.
He subsequently filed a lawsuitalleging wrongful termination,
which was settled out of court.
Despite these warnings, ocean Gatepressed ahead with Titan's development.
The company conducted test dives graduallyincreasing the depth until they claimed.
(39:39):
They climbed this,thing's safe we're good.
The vehicle was capableof reaching the Titanic.
I don't know how you test thatwithout getting there, going to the
fucking Titanic, but that's cool.
It's fine.
I mean, I guess there's gotta be waysbecause we test like space suits before we
(40:00):
just shoot astronauts into space in them.
So we have ways.
I just, I don't know if I trust that oceanGate was like really testing their things.
All right, Zach, we're gonna fast forward.
It's 2021.
Ocean Gate is ready to begin commercialexpeditions to the Titanic, the price tag.
(40:24):
Just take a ballpark guess of like, whatthe hell is it gonna cost for you to get a
seat on this thing and go see the Titanic.
$150,000 per person.
Actually, very good.
Guess it's $250,000 per person, but,um, insane, like cuckoo fucking bananas.
(40:46):
Money.
If you guys want to come die,just pay me $250,000 each.
Yes.
And there is no money back guarantee.
Those who signed up had to acknowledgethe experimental nature of the
vessel and the inherent risk.
So they literally had to signa waiver saying, this case,
you can't sue me for this.
(41:06):
The waiver they signed was brutallyhonest, describing Titan as an
experimental submersible vesselthat has not been approved or
certified by any regulatory bodyand could result in physical injury,
disability, emotional trauma, or death.
That was literally verbatim in thewaiver, those sign, things like that.
(41:29):
God, I guess I have two..
But as Rush would later tellpotential customers with a note of
pride, this is an experimental sub,this is a dangerous environment.
We want to make sure you'regoing in with an open eye.
Yeah, I guess he's attractingthe freaks with a lot of money.
With a lot of money.
(41:50):
And that's actually probably a good thing.
We don't have a lot of moneybecause we are freaky people.
So think about the weird stuffthat we would sign up to do.
Did I ever tell you that Iapplied to be part of the project?
Uh, that like gets launchedinto Mars and never comes back?
When I was in college, I think you did.
And it doesn't shock me.
Yeah.
Woof.
(42:11):
Guys.
The crazy thing thoughis men are from Mars.
June 18th, 2023.
The sky is overcast at the port in St.
John's, Newfoundland as the expeditionvessel, polar prince prepares for
its journey to the Titanic site,approximately 370 miles southeast.
(42:34):
Okay?
It's launch day.
The polar prince is what's knownas a mothership, so real, real
term or a support vessel, whichis a critical component in deep
sea submersible operations.
It basically just liketug boats out the mm-hmm.
The submersible.
And it also is where all of the.
(42:56):
Crew, the facilities for launchingand recovery take place, communication
systems, the mothership is very critical.
It is the lifeline monitoringthe status and coordinating any
necessary emergency responses.
Yeah.
They didn't want to go throughall the testing and get certified.
(43:18):
Yeah.
But those same people that dothe certifications when you need
them, Hey guys, we messed up.
Can you come save us?
Yeah.
I don't know where he found these people.
I mean, I'm sure they were paidquite handsomely, but they I'm sure
had to know that, they were part ofthis crew of a very experimental,
non-certified submersible onboard.
(43:40):
This mothership is the ocean Gate titan.
It is secured to the deck.
This expedition marks the startof Ocean Gate's 2023 season
of dives to the famous wreck.
At just 22 feet long and about eightfeet in diameter at its widest point.
The Titan is surprisingly small fora vessel that's designed to carry
(44:05):
five people to extreme depths.
The interior space is even more limited.
It is roughly the size of aminivan's cabin with no seats.
Uh, just a padded floor.
Everybody sit crisscrossapplesauce, kind of, yes.
It's like, you know, just going on.
Go on in and you can sit orkneel for hours for $250,000.
(44:33):
Couldn't even throw a lawn chair in there.
Okay, put us on a recliner.
We'll have two people in it.
I mean, honestly, five peopleare preparing to make the dive.
Stockton rush himself, Britishbillionaire and explorer.
Hamish Harding, French maritimeexpert, Paul Henry nar nar n.
(44:59):
Standby.
That's crazy.
That's how Luna found Harry.
He's got lots of les in his head.
It's the les.
Your head is full of them.
Okay, so it is I believeit's a French flinch name.
It is Paul Ri na zale nale nale nale
(45:23):
narwals.
Nicknamed Mr.
Titanic for his extensiveexperience with the wreck.
And Pakistani British businessman, ShadaDalwood, and his 19-year-old son, Suman.
Oh.
So he just had likelots of Fuck you money.
He's like, let me just buy two seats.
That's fine.
Yeah.
(45:43):
I remember when I was reading about thisand I learned that there was a 19-year-old
just kid on this and I was like, ohmy God, you had so much life to live.
Oh, it's rough.
Um, yeah, and I mean, as a parent, westruggle with this with Aria, I think,
where it's like you want your kid tobe able to experience these really
(46:04):
cool kinda risky things because thatis so much of what life is about to us.
And.
You have to assume the risk that comeswith that and it can be very scary.
We got scolded for having our kiddoat the racetrack last time we were
there and this dude is letting his19-year-old on an experimental submarine.
(46:28):
So I will add though that I would probablyfeel more secure about it too if I was
like, oh, this other really rich dudethat designed it is going down with us.
He must be pretty confidentthat it's gonna be okay.
You just dunno how crazy that person is.
You don't, no.
Yeah.
Like he's not Well, the weather had been aconcern in the previous days, but a brief
(46:49):
window of calmer conditions has opened up.
In his last social media post,Hamish Harding wrote, A weather
window has just opened up andwe're going to attempt a dive
For Dalwood.
The trip is a Father's Day adventurewith his son, fueled by his lifelong
fascination with the Titanic,according to family members.
(47:10):
Suman had initially been reluctant togo, but he was persuaded by his dad.
Eek, no.
It's like, oh my God.
As a mom, that just is, it breaksmy heart in like a thousand places
as the expedition begins, rushis confident In one of his last
interviews before the dive, he said,in this expedition the probably,
(47:34):
I probability the safest thingwill be once you're underwater.
There's some sort of typo in thisfrom my own typing, which I'm
sure, um, a lot of sources we got.
So in one of his last interviewsbefore the dive, he said, in
this expedition, the safest thingwill be once you're underwater.
(47:55):
You know, once I'm a couple of feetunderwater, I know I'm coming back.
I know everybody's coming back.
That's a weird way to think it.
That's a weird, that's a prettybizarre way to look at that.
But UDU, the polar prince arrivesat the Titanic site early on
Sunday morning, June 18th.
The sea is relatively calm asthe crew prepares to launch Titan
(48:15):
for its descent to the wreck.
Um, very quickly I'm gonna walk usthrough the process of launching and
operating a deep sea submersible burst.
The support vessel positionsitself at the dive site.
The submersible is thoroughlychecked, quote unquote, with
(48:38):
all systems tested and verified.
The passenger's board through asmall hatch, which is then sealed.
The vessel is then carefully lowered intothe water using a specialized launching
system, often a crane, very special, B,
once in the water, the submersibletypically floats with a positive buoyancy.
(49:02):
So it means that it wants to floatat the top naturally, not by itself.
To descend.
The pilot adds weight by takingon water or using drop weights.
The descent is controlled and relativelyslow, usually between 102 hundred feet
per minute, meaning it takes hoursto reach the depths of the Titanic.
(49:30):
We got all day.
It's fine.
Is there a potty?
Probably not.
That's whew.
That right there you'd be out.
Oh yeah.
Is everybody wearing a diaper?
No.
To maintain communication with thesurface, most modern submersibles
use underwater acoustic systemsthat transmit sound waves
(49:52):
through the water like a whale.
But instead, this guy thought he wasso smart, he used $6 walkie talkies.
Oh my gosh.
Radio waves don'tpropagate well underwater.
So traditional radiocommunication does not work.
That'd be really cute.
Titan used a basic text messagingsystem to communicate with the
(50:16):
polar prints throughout its descent.
I wonder if he used T nine.
That would be funny.
Can't text mom mad phone bill Too high.
You only get a couple characters a month.
The submersible is loaded withenough oxygen for a 96 hour journey,
(50:38):
though the actual dive is expectedto last about eight hours, 2.5
hour descent, threehours at the Titanic, 2.5
hours back to the surface.
It's a long time to go without a toilet.
That's all I'm saying.
At approximately 8:00 AM Eastern time,Titan is launched, the submersible begins.
(50:59):
Its dissent towards the Titanic.
Maintaining communication with the polarprints through text messages transmitted
via a simple acoustic system at 9:45AM less than two hours into the dive.
All communication with Titan stops.
The timing is crucial because atthis point, Titan would have been
(51:23):
at a depth of about 12,000 feetapproaching the Titanic site.
The pressure at this depth is inengineering terms, this kind of
pressure creates what's called a singlepoint failure environment, meaning
that there is no margin for error.
Unlike an airplane, that can still fly ifone engine fails or even a surface ship
(51:49):
that might stay float with some damage.
A deep sea submersible that loseswhole integrity, has no backup option.
It is spooked.
The collapse happens inmilliseconds faster than human
nerve impulses can even travel.
The occupants would not even have timeto register that something was wrong.
(52:12):
That's probably a good way to go then.
Yes.
I mean, this would be,this is not drowning.
Mm-hmm.
This is like popping almost.
But oddly, despite losing communication,the support crew on the polar prince
does not immediately declare anemergency protocol dictates that when
a submersible loses contact protocoldictates that when a submersible
(52:35):
loses contact, rescue proceduresshould begin within 15 to 30 minutes.
As Will Conan would later explain.
When you lose communication witha submarine, within 15 minutes,
you start worrying at a half hour.
You are in emergency mode, and afteran hour you assume something happened.
(52:56):
Instead, nearly eight hourspass before the Coast Guard is
notified that Titan is missing.
What?
That's a lot of hours.
That's a lot of hours.
This inexplicable delay would laterbecome a subject of very intense scrutiny.
By the time the alarm is raised,an international search and rescue
(53:18):
operation is launched involving theUS and Canadian Coast Guards aircraft
and specialized deep sea equipment.
The clock is ticking against the96 hours of estimated available
oxygen for the next three days.
I'm sure you remember this.
Mm-hmm.
The world is absolutely on pinsand needles waiting for an update.
(53:45):
News outlets provide constant updatesabout the dwindling oxygen supply.
And on Tuesday, June 20th, reportsemerge of banging sounds detected
by sonar at 30 minute intervals,which actually raised hopes that
the occupants might still be alive.
But finding a small submersible inthe Atlantic ocean, that's horrid.
(54:11):
Yeah.
Especially at such extreme deaths,it proved extremely difficult.
Even if Titan is located recovering, itis gonna be really challenging because
most submarines and rescue vehicles.
Can't get even close to 12,000 feet.
Mm-hmm.
By Thursday, June 22nd, the estimatedoxygen supply was exhausted, but the
(54:35):
search continued now with additionalspecialized deep sea robots, which were
capable of reaching the ocean floor.
These remotely operated vehicles,or roves, I think it's Rove, not ro,
they're essentially underwater robotscontrolled from ships on the surface.
Unlike human occupied submersibles,they can withstand extreme
(55:00):
depths because they don't need tomaintain a breathable atmosphere.
They're equipped with high definition.
Cameras, sonar, and manipulate our arms.
Beep, beep, boop.
That allow them to examineobjects on the sea floor in
detail in the search for Titan.
These would prove crucial for finding andidentifying the wreckage that afternoon.
(55:25):
Just over 105 hours after Titan began itsdescent, coast Guard rear Admiral Admiral.
It's a hard word, coast Guard RearAdmiral John Moger calls a press
conference to deliver the news.
Debris from the Titan has been brought tothe surface from the ocean floor, and the
(55:47):
debris is consistent with the catastrophicloss of the presser pressure chamber.
The terrible truth becomes clear.
Titan had suffered a catastrophicimplosion early in its descent.
The five men on board were killedinstantly as the pressure hole collapsed.
Creating a shockwave so powerful that itwas detected by US Navy acoustic sensors
(56:12):
designed to track submarine activity.
Now that's wild.
Yeah.
When a submersible implodes it depth,the forces involved are enormous.
I mean, that is like a giantbomb being dropped somewhere.
Yes.
Out here we hear it.
We can picture what itsounds like down there.
It is just, I dunno,boom, but like underwater.
(56:36):
Yeah.
It's like yelling underwater.
You can't hear it.
It's freaking nuts.
The pressure vessel collapses inward atsupersonic speed with the surrounding
water rushing in to fill the vacuum.
The energy released creates a shockwavesimilar to an explosion, which
propagates through the water for miles.
(56:59):
These acoustic signatures are preciselywhat naval sonar arrays are designed
to detect when tracking submarines,the failure point was likely the
carbon fiber hole, or its connectionto the titanium end caps, uh, which was
obviously the design elements that we wereconcerned about from the very beginning.
(57:22):
Yeah.
As James Cameron, director of Titanicand an experienced deep sea explorer
himself put it, there had been a lotof concern about this outfit and this
sub, but perhaps most tragic of allwas the realization that the search
with its tension filled updates aboutdwindling oxygen and mysterious knocking
(57:43):
sounds had been futile from the start.
Titan and its occupants hadbeen lost within the first
two hours of the expedition.
In the wake of the Titan tragedy, thesubmersible industry faced a reckoning.
Will Conan provided a sobering perspectiveon the industry safety record until this
(58:05):
incident, submersibles had conducted 40to 50,000 dives a year for the last 40
years without a single fatality, not one.
Well, it sounds like really the thing theyneed to do, they don't really need more
rules because they weren't having issues.
They need to bridge the gapof the international waters.
(58:28):
This single event had morefatalities than all previous
incidents in the industry combined.
Crazy.
As investigators began piecingtogether what happened?
Attention focused on OceanGate's unconventional approach
to both design and operations.
Stephan Williams, who's a professorof marine robotics at the University
(58:51):
of Sydney, pointed to a fundamentalflaw in the Titan's development.
The consensus among experts was that usingcarbon fiber for a pressure vessel at this
depth was questionable at best, and therewere serious doubts about whether Ocean
Gate had done enough due diligence andtesting and design to even ensure safety.
(59:13):
Industry experts suggested that Titan'sCarbon fiber hole may have been damaged
before the dive, which would make sense.
Boom,
he noted.
This will, our friend will notedthat the submersible when starting
the dive was definitely not in thesame condition as when it left.
(59:36):
Port Titan had been towed 400 nauticalmiles through the North Atlantic,
potentially subjecting it to stressesthat could have compromised its integrity.
Mm.
Yep.
The investigation also revealedthat Ocean Gate's testing regimen, I
mean no surprise here, was lacking.
(59:58):
Lacking a proper,
oh boy.
A proper test program for a new pressurevessel designed typically involves
crushing multiple test units to verifycalculations, subjecting vessels to
sustained pressure for months, and thencycling the vessel through thousands of
pressure tests, which all take years.
(01:00:19):
Takes years.
In, Will's perspective, doing just twodives on one unit was so far removed
from what should be considered testing.
Yeah.
Like it's, that does not even count.
And questions alsoarose about ocean Gates.
Emergency response planning.
(01:00:41):
Obviously the emergency protocolswere questionable at best.
Professional submersibleoperations typically have detailed
emergency protocols, includinghaving a second submersible or
a remotely operated vehicle.
Like what had to get brought in ave aRove capable of reaching the same depth
(01:01:03):
so that if something were to happen,they could immediately deploy something
to go figure out what's going on.
Mm-hmm.
Ocean Gate had none of it.
Neither.
None, Nope.
So what you brought up Zach, isexactly what got brought up by experts.
This concept of international watersjust being a free for all, not okay.
(01:01:26):
The industry began pushing for clearer,more uniform standards that would be
enforced across international boundaries.
Elevating the issue to theun damn the Titan disaster.
Also raised ethical questionsabout extreme tourism.
So basically the question here is,should wealthy adventure seekers be
(01:01:51):
allowed to participate in inherentlydangerous activities without
fully understanding the risks?
Like, it's one thing to sign awaiver, but it's another thing
to be like, this isn't safe.
The risk of you tying is very real.
This may get redacted, but I'm gonnasay yes, if these rich people are that
(01:02:13):
dumb and crazy that they think they'resmarter than everybody and can just
dive to the ocean because they wantto let 'em go, it doesn't bother me.
It's a hot take.
Hummish Harding's friend, Chris Brown.
Not the Chris Brown that you'rethinking of had been scheduled to join
the expedition, but actually choseto stay behind after the tragedy.
(01:02:37):
He reflected that most explorers assessthe risks before deciding to go on an
expedition, but he implied that in thiscase, the true extent of those risks
were probably not fully understood.
For all Stockton, Russia's talk ofbreaking rules with logic and good
engineering, the Titan disasterrevealed the terrible cost of
(01:03:00):
prioritizing innovation over safety.
In a bitter irony, the debris field ofthe Titan now sits with the Titanic.
I mean, that is take a row downthere and pile up the pieces
on top of the Titanic deck.
Like, you wanna be here so bad.
(01:03:20):
Here you go.
Ugh.
It's really dark.
And, uh, Zach, that isour story for today.
This runny nose is beating me up.
It is.
But, but you hung in there.
You were a real trooper.
I went on my spiel about the rich people.
Yeah.
So people now know how I feel.
Good for you guys.
I don't really say it much.
(01:03:42):
I don't know.
I'm kind of back and forth on itbecause I am a believer that you gotta
break a few eggs to make an omelet.
But also I do that with thingsthat I actually understand, not
something that I got into yesterday.
How about, um, if you're gonna breaksome omelets don't involve other people.
Why would you break an omelet?
(01:04:03):
Sorry, break an omelet if you'regonna break, if you were gonna
break some eggs to make an omelet,break the ones from your own
fridge rather than somebody else's.
Yes, a hundred percent.
Don't involve other people.
Our daughter woke up.
Um, we were getting passionate,
it sounded like dirt bikes or something.
I dunno.
It was weird.
(01:04:24):
All right, well thatis our story for today.
So if you enjoyed this episode, Idon't know if you thought it was
interesting, please rate, review andsubscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also follow us on Instagramat Final Boarding Call POD for
behind the scenes content andupdates on future episodes.
And you can join our Facebookdiscussion group, which is on Facebook.
(01:04:48):
Somewhere.
It's there.
It's in the cloud.
And a data center.
Oh, data centers.
And please join us next time whenwe will be talking about another
transportation disaster story.
Until then, remember to stow yourtrade tables, fasten your seat belts,
(01:05:09):
and prepare for the unexpected,because not every trip reaches.
It's final destination.
Good, good.
Oh, good one like that.
Picture this a cramped carbonfiber tube, roughly the size of a
van descending into the crushingdarkness of the North Atlantic.
Inside five passengers sitshoulder to shoulder as they plunge
towards the world's most famousshipwreck, 12,500 feet below.
(00:31):
Today we are about to experience whathappens when ambitious innovation and
corner cutting collide in one of themost unforgiving environments on earth.
So stow your tray tables, fastenyour seat belts, and prepare for
(00:52):
some extreme turbulence becausethis is final boarding call.
I dunno what I'm smelling.
Is it me?
Am I the problem?
T Swift would say so.
Okay.
All right.
(01:13):
Here we go.
Go ahead and talk for me.
You're not the boss of me.
Okay, sounds great.
Wow, that was weird.
Boop.
So I'm just gonna start this off and say.
I feel as if we're talking about thesubmarine thing that dove just a few years
(01:34):
ago to look at the Titanic, which wasjust some rich dude that bought it and
had no idea what he was doing or building.
Okay.
So some of that is factual, some ofit is a little off, but we are talking
about that story, which is known widelyas Ocean Gate, uh, ocean Gate Titan.
(01:58):
So yes, Zach.
Well, you're about to deep dive.
Yeah.
You like that?
You like what I did there?
Bazinga.
Bazinga.
Okay.
Hello and welcome to Final Boarding Call.
I am your disaster obsessed host Alice.
And I'm Zach.
A little sick.
A little worse for wear.
(02:19):
Oh, honey.
But we're here.
We're ready to go.
We're here and we're ready to go.
I love it.
Before we dive in, quickreminder to you, listener.
Wow.
Do you hear all that?
Is that the rain?
No, the mic.
Oh my gosh.
All right.
Trying again.
(02:40):
Woo.
Okay.
So yes, ocean Gate Titan.
That is what we were talking about.
That's the story thatwe're covering today.
Before we dive in, listener, you friend,please rate, review and subscribe
wherever you get your podcasts.
And tell a friend.
(03:00):
We always love, sharing thelove, and that goes for you.
Apple Podcast folks.
Why aren't you rating and reviewing?
I know we know you're listening.
We see the listens.
We see the listens, and we see no ratingsother than you are the, you are the
least active listeners of all people.
Stop.
We're just gonna shame them.
Shame, shame.
(03:21):
You get no stickers, no,you get all the stickers.
But please go ahead andreview, review and subscribe.
And if you send us a screenshot,we will send you a sticker.
So just let us know that you'verated the show and also know that I'm
sympathetic as an Apple Podcast listener.
I don't know how to use their app.
It's garbage redacted.
(03:43):
Redact can't say thatbecause Apple will get mad.
No, you, you're allowedto have an opinion.
We, we live in the United States for now.
You're allowed to have an opinion.
That's a whole different topicand we're not gonna dive into it.
Okay.
This episode is based ona few different sources.
Documentaries from The Fooland Seven News Australia.
(04:08):
And in those, there were variousinterviews with submarine experts,
technically called submersibleexperts, but none of them interviewed
Rose, the love of Jack from Titanic.
Okay, well, she actually plays a pivotalrole in the, not Rose, but like the real
(04:30):
Titanic does play a role in this story.
It's the cause of the whole adventure.
All right, I'm just gonna dive in.
Richard Stockton Rush, the thirdSounds rich and pretentious.
A hell of a name.
Was born into privilege on March31st, 1962 in San Francisco.
(04:56):
He wasn't just any wealthy family.
His maternal grandmother was LuisDavies, the philanthropist, whose name
Graces San Francisco's Symphony Hall.
Through his father, he descendedfrom two signers of the
Declaration of Independence.
(05:18):
Yeah, that's right, RichardStockton and Benjamin Rush.
Dude, it's a big deal.
From an early age Stockton Rushharbored ambitious dreams, he wanted
to become an astronaut and be thefirst person to set foot on Mars.
This passion for explorationmanifested in multiple ways.
(05:40):
He began scuba divingat just 12 years old.
Oh man.
Jealous.
And he earned his commercialpilot's license by 18, becoming
the youngest jet transport ratedpilot in the world at that time.
You're so unimpressed.
(06:01):
Are any of these impressive to you?
These stats I'm thrown out.
This kid has a ton of ambition.
I'm just listening to you and that'skind of my role in this podcast.
But you want me to say something?
You want it.
I bet it's probably easy to make allthese records when you don't have to go to
(06:22):
school 'cause you're just some rich bitch.
Oh boy.
Okay.
And you're saying I've gotsome passionate feelings.
You got Rich Boy passionateFeelies after graduating from
elite Phillips Exeter Academy.
Stockton Rush went on to earn adegree in aerospace engineering
from Princeton University, followedby an MBA from uc, Berkeley.
(06:48):
His career began at McDonaldDouglas as a flight tester.
Nope, start again.
His career began at McDonald Douglas as aflight test engineer on the F 15 program.
I'm gonna be honest, that partdoesn't mean that much to me.
What is that?
He's a flight test engineer for planes,and we're an Aviation disaster podcast.
(07:13):
Come on.
That's kind of cool.
That was the whole link.
I got you.
I love it.
That was great.
Okay.
McDonald Douglas also makes theDC 10, which we have talked about.
A lot.
Okay.
Later he also worked as a venturecapitalist, less excited about that.
But space explorationeventually alluded him.
(07:35):
He was told that his visual abilities,his, his vision, he had, he was
visually impaired a little bit.
He was visually impaired.
It would disqualify him frombecoming a military aviator, which
really is kind of the first stepif you wanna become an astronaut.
As his dreams of Mars faded away,Stockton Rush's gaze shifted
(07:57):
from the stars to the deep blue.
And there's a lot of it.
He wanted to live in a yellow submarine.
Just kidding.
Um, but in kind of in 2006, afterhis first ride in a submarine.
In British Columbia.
Stockton Rush became absolutelycaptivated by deep sea exploration.
(08:22):
Zach, do you wanna tell the peopleabout our submarine adventure?
'cause we also have done like acool submarine thing like this.
Well, it was not quite deep sea,but it was a good time off the coast
of Hawaii and it was not yelloweven though I was singing the song.
(08:43):
I really manifested a yellowone and it didn't work out.
No.
But we saw some cool fishes and sometotals and a couple sharks we did.
And who doesn't love a good shark?
Yeah.
Shark Week became insanely popularwhen we were in high school.
Do you remember what type of shark we saw?
A gray one.
(09:04):
Black tip Reef shark.
Are they mostly gray And they are.
Zachary, you're no fun.
God, they, uh, they hunt at night, so theywere sleeping during the day and they were
like in a cluster and they were very cute.
I love sharks.
I also have a passionfor deep sea exploration.
(09:26):
I just have less money than Stockton Rush.
So, but only by a hair.
Only by a hair.
Alright.
So in 2006 he did what we did,except he was like, I'm all in.
This is gonna become my whole personality.
He initially attempted to purchasehis own submersible, but he discovered
(09:49):
that there were fewer than 100privately owned submarines worldwide.
Probably makes the price pretty silly.
Yeah.
I mean, I feel like he's got a lotof money though, so I don't know
if he just didn't find one that waslike in spec for him, or he didn't
find one that was actually for sale.
(10:11):
Regardless as we will see thisman, money's not really an issue.
Instead, he built a small 13 foot vesselcapable of diving to only 33 feet.
It's a start.
It's a start by 2000.
It's a start.
By 2007, Stockton Rush beganexploring the idea of founding
his own submarine company.
(10:33):
Like I said, he went all in.
This is less than a year from hisfirst ever submarine adventure, and
he said, guys, I'm a billionaire.
I could, uh, yeah, let's do this.
I don't actually know how muchmoney he has, but money for sure.
He believed that there could be asignificant market for underwater tourism.
(10:55):
So a little bit of the blue origin,but like down instead of up.
Yep.
Uh, he believed that underwater tourismwould provide an alternative to the
technical challenges of scuba diving.
So basically people that were,for whatever reason, unable to
get a SCUBA certification, couldjust get in a submarine Fair.
(11:20):
Yeah.
You're not a good swimmer.
Let's put you in an underwater car.
There you go.
In 2009, he co-founded Ocean Gatewith business partner Billy Amo.
Sunline.
Sunline.
Gimme one second.
Guillermo.
Just gimme a moment.
(11:40):
Okay.
Standby.
All right.
Guillermo Zern line.
That was close to what yousaid that I actually have done.
Way worse.
I've done way worse with less letters.
So true for Stockton.
Rush Ocean Gate wasn't just abouttourism, it was about pioneering.
(12:05):
That's the washer.
Yeah, it is.
That's my bad for starting that.
For Stockton, rush Ocean Gate wasn't justabout tourism, it was about pioneering
a new approach to ocean exploration.
He frequently expressed frustration withwhat he saw as excessive regulations
hindering innovation in submarine design.
(12:26):
And you guys try too hard to makethese things like hold water out.
So I don't like that you'rekeeping me from exploring, man.
It's something like that.
In his view, the perception of dangerand underwater exploration far exceeded
the actual risk you going to learn today.
(12:46):
So well, as we already know, StocktonRush was particularly critical of the
Passenger Vessel Safety Act of 1993,a US law that regulated ocean tourism
vessels and prohibited commercialdives below 150 feet, which we went
(13:07):
to almost 150 feet on our dives.
I think we got 1 22.
Yeah.
He believed that these regulationsneedlessly prioritized passenger safety
over commercial innovation, a philosophy.
That would ultimately behis demise, be his demise.
That is so spot on.
(13:27):
Yes.
The belief that safety regulationswere sometimes excessive became
a cornerstone of Stockton.
Russia's approach to submersible design.
In a 2022 interview, he summedup his philosophy At some point,
safety just becomes pure waste.
(13:48):
If you wanna be safe,don't get out of bed.
It's a risk reward question.
And he believed that he could operatejust as safely by breaking some rules.
I'm the first person to be ready.
You are to break some rules.
God, you are.
But there's some thingsthat mean immediate death.
(14:09):
Like you wanna break the speed limit.
Okay.
Going 85 and a 75 isprobably not gonna end.
In end your life.
However you want to make sure that theseals aren't replaced on your submarine,
you will die a slow and painful death,like one of the worst ways to die.
Drowning and fire.
(14:30):
They're the only ones.
That's fair.
Yeah, that's definitely fair.
Both of those sound horrible.
This approach, prioritizing innovationover established safety protocols
really became the foundationof Ocean Gates business model.
And this gives me the ick, but here we go.
(14:50):
Stockton Rush frequentlycompared himself to Elon Musk.
Yes.
Oh, yes, yes.
Positioning Ocean Gate as theSpaceX of the oceans founded in
2009, ocean Gate began modestly.
First using an existing certifiedsubmersible called Antipodes.
(15:16):
Could have done betterthan that, but Okay.
Yeah, it's a it's a hell of a name.
It's literally anti and then pos, that'sthe whole thing For shallow dives near
Washington State, they explored thewreck of the SS governor sometimes
called the area's mini Titanic andstudied the SS Montebello, a sunken
(15:37):
oil tanker that posed an environmentalthreat off California's coast.
Seems harmless enough, right?
Sure, yeah.
Yeah.
He's doing, he's doing normalsubmarine tourism, in my opinion.
Yeah.
You get on a boat, you go look ata shipwreck that's not, you know,
almost 13,000 feet below the surface.
(16:00):
By 2014, ocean Gate had gained enoughnotoriety to attract celebrity clients.
You ready for this?
That year, Grammy winning artistMacklemore joined Stockton Rush
for a dive in search of therare six Gill Shark thrift shop.
(16:23):
Shark Bite.
I think it's just Macklemore,not Macklemore, but
downtown.
Downtown.
That was Macklemore, right?
That song?
Okay.
Thank you.
Or something.
I genuinely don't know, but I thinkhe did the down, like you get a moped.
Something about a moped.
Okay.
(16:44):
But for Stockton Rush, these relativelyshallow dives of only a few hundred
feet were just the beginning.
They weren't fun enough.
No, I mean truly, if you'vegot the drive, the vision.
Of this man, you're not gonna beokay with like, oh, let's go to
this little rinky dink shipwreck.
(17:06):
It's not gonna get you high.
Yeah.
Instead he's like showing thesetours, piloting the submarine, and
he's just like, yeah, and to ourleft, here's another shipwreck.
Oh my God.
That's hilarious.
Okay.
Yep.
So he had a sight set on the ultimateunderwater destination, the tnic, the
(17:32):
tit neck, which rested nearly two and ahalf miles beneath the Atlantic Ocean.
The wreck held a personal connectionfor Stockton Rush as well.
His wife, Wendy Rush, was thegreat granddaughter of Isador.
And Ida Strauss, which was of coursea wealthy couple who had perished
(17:57):
together on the Titanic, um, in 1912.
So that is horrible thatthey died on the Titanic.
The Strauss's story was even dramatized inJames Cameron's film, showing them bracing
on their bed as water filled their cabin.
(18:17):
This family connection added anotherlayer to Stockton Rush's determination.
To reach such extreme depths,ocean Gate would need a completely
different class of submersible.
You know, a submarine that'sdesigned to go 150 feet.
That's very differentthan two and a half miles.
(18:38):
Yes.
And since no existing vehicle metStockton, Russia's specifications for
innovation and cost effectiveness,he made a very fateful decision.
Ocean Gate was going toDIY, its own submersible.
(19:00):
So here we go.
And.
It is Venji.
In 2015, ocean Gate unveiledCyclops, their first custom built
submersible and it only had one eye.
Okay?
So I know that through this I've beenusing the term submersible and submarine
(19:21):
interchangeably, but they actuallyare different things, and I'm going
to explain the difference right now.
Unlike submarines that can operateindependently for extended periods,
submersibles are smaller vehicles thattypically depend on a support ship.
(19:44):
They are designed for shorter missions.
They have limited power, theycarry fewer people, typically
between only one to five occupants.
They are basically justunderwater exploration vehicles
rather than true submarines.
So we were in a submarine, but when Ithink of a submersible, I think about
(20:09):
I'm a huge like nature documentary fan.
You know, this about me, likeDavid Attenborough is absolutely
on my dream dinner party list.
But any documentary that features truedeep ocean filming, I love seeing, it's
like a little bubble, basically pod,and it sits like two people, like one
(20:33):
person steering it and then they'reback to back and the other person's
holding a camera and it looks scaryas hell, like absolutely terrifying.
You're in the pitch, black in a bubble.
But that is a submersible justto get kind of a vision there.
It's not comfy, you're not laying down.
(20:53):
From the beginning, Cyclopsreflected Stockton, Rush's philosophy
of simplicity and innovation.
Sometimes at the expenseof industry standards.
The vessel was small.
It was roughly the size of a minivanin its complete form with a clear
(21:18):
acrylic dome at one end for viewing.
And a pressure hole, the sealedcompartment that protects occupants
from the crushing water pressuretaking up most of the craft itself.
Makes sense?
Yeah.
I mean, I kind of envisionit truly as like a.
(21:39):
Oblong bubble.
Yeah.
Little bubbly.
One of the most surprisingfeatures was the control system.
Rather than using specialized equipmentdesigned for underwater vehicles, stocked
and rush opted for a modified LogitechF seven 10 video game controller, the
(21:59):
same kind that you would literallyuse to play an Xbox or a PlayStation.
And you probably heard about that.
'cause that was mm-hmm.
A pretty pivotal part of this case.
Anybody ever been playing a gameand it said, Xbox controller
disconnected, it happened.
It's so dark, Zach.
(22:20):
I love it.
I mean, it's horrible.
But o during demonstrations, StocktonRush would explain how the controller
worked with two dead man switches.
Safety features that requireconstant pressure from the operator.
If you let go because you've lostconsciousness or for any other
reason, the system immediatelystops or reverts to a safe mode.
(22:44):
Similar to the safetyswitches on lawnmowers.
You know that shut off whenyou release the handle.
Oh yeah.
For people that have never mowed alawn, my daughter knows how those work.
So you gotta like pull the handlethat's closest to the lawnmower, to you
in order to keep the lawnmower going.
Even my wife knows how to do it, eventhough she's never mowed our lawn.
(23:05):
Sh I'm just a super smart woman.
Wicked sma.
I'm wicked sma I.
While this simplified control systemmade the sub easier to operate,
it stunned industry veterans.
You're like, you did what?
Yes, you did.
What is the right term?
(23:26):
Traditional submersibles.
Use purpose-built, redundant drink controlsystems designed specifically for the
unique challenges of deep sea operation.
These are systems with multiplebackups in case of any failure.
And they've specialized componentstested to work under extreme conditions.
(23:53):
No shade to the Logitech Fseven 10, I'm sure it's great.
But you're taking it almost 13,000feet below the surface of water.
I mean, I just like, it's just crazy.
Yeah.
But it was inside.
Duh.
It's gonna be fine.
The controller was just thebeginning of o, of Ocean
(24:17):
Gate's unconventional approach.
A few years later, when developing aneven more ambitious vehicle called Titan,
initially named Cyclops two, Stockton Rushmade an even more controversial decision.
Are you ready for this, Zach?
'cause this is insane.
(24:38):
He chose to build the pressure hole, whichis the main compartment, housing the crew.
Kind of like the fuselageof an airplane, right?
Mm-hmm.
Out of carbon fiber, it's real light.
Bet he could pick thatthing up with his pancake.
Yeah.
YY yes, it is very light.
(25:02):
Um, but you need really strong whenyou're, experiencing that much pressure.
It's also considered pretty strong.
It's just also pressure formed, so, okay.
Yeah, that's fair.
That's fair.
To understand why this was soradical, we all need to understand
the extreme conditions thatsubmersibles face in the deep ocean.
(25:27):
At the depth of the Titanic,we're right around 12,500 feet.
The water pressure is approximately5,600 pounds per square inch.
Hmm.
So everywhere that you can point yourfinger to has that much weight against it.
(25:51):
It is like having 380 cars stacked onevery square inch of this submersible.
The pressure vessel mustmaintain its integrity perfectly.
Even the smallest fracturewould result in instantaneous
(26:12):
catastrophic implosion death.
Death.
This was why using carbonfiber was unheard of.
In the deep submarine submersiblecommunity, the industry standard for
deep diving submersibles was titanium.
What is the depth wherethey consider it deep?
(26:35):
Is it like a thousand feet?
I mean, that's a nice round number.
I like a thousand feet.
Yeah.
Let's see, what's the feetconsidered for deep C?
Let's see.
So the term deep sea refers to oceandepth starting at around 200 meters,
(26:57):
which is about 660 feet below the surface.
This coincides roughly withwhere sunlight begins to fade and
photosynthesis is no longer possible.
Could have just used around number, but whatever.
Oh my goodness.
You're the cutest.
Okay.
No, you get six 60.
That's as round as it's getting.
(27:18):
Alright, sane people who aren't, youknow, super ambitious and adventurous,
I guess they are using titanium orthey are using specialized steel.
These are materials with wellunderstood properties under extreme
pressure, and they have decades ofproven performance in the deep sea.
(27:43):
Don't fix what ain't broke.
I don't.
You just gotta ask yourself, somebodycan punch 5,500 pounds of pressure.
Do you want them to hit like apiece of fiberboard or do you
want them to hit something metal?
Sorry, this shit's justloud and I'm hearing it.
It feels like the air kicked on againtoo and I thought I turned it off.
(28:05):
I'm hearing the dishwasher for sure.
It is only 67 in here.
My wife's about to freeze to death.
Unless it's winter time.
Then in 67 she is sweating.
It's you.
That's hilarious.
Zach.
It was me.
I was stinky the whole time.
It's these slippers yourdaughter's been telling you.
Mama, you're stinky.
Okay.
(28:26):
Will Conan, CEO of Hydro Space Group andexecutive director of the World Submarine
Organization would later explain whythis decision raised every red flag you
can imagine research on carbon fiberfor submersibles had been conducted for
over 40 years, and virtually everyonein the industry had abandoned it.
(28:52):
While one strand of carbon fiber canpull a car, it's ineffective when pushed.
Against one.
Yeah.
High tensile strength doesn't meanthat it is hard to bend or crack.
That's exactly it.
Zach, carbon fiber cells at handlingtension, but submersibles need to be able
(29:14):
to face compression forces with the oceanpushing inward on every single side.
So carbon fiber's great for manythings, probably not for a submersible.
Right?
Yeah.
It still breaks on drift carswhen they bump each other.
Yes.
Yes.
(29:35):
Now, carbon klar, on the otherhand, would fold up like a ball.
Carbon fiber structures can alsodevelop hidden delamination.
Where the layers startseparating microscopically.
And that's difficult to detect withoutspecialized equipment over multiple
dives as the hole is repeatedly subjectedto pressure, these tiny flaws can grow
(30:01):
until catastrophic failure occurs daily.
Laminations sucks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We face that a lot with our tires.
Not a lot.
It depends on the, the tire, butit can happen and it's really
scary when it does even on a tire.
But stock in rush remained adamant.
(30:23):
He maintained that carbon fiber wasthree times better on a strength to
buoyancy basis than titanium, whichhe considered the crucial metric
underwater by strength to buoyancy.
He was referring to how strong a materialis relative to its ability to float.
Which you brought up earlier.
(30:45):
Carbon fiber is light.
Very light.
It's extremely light.
And this is a critical factor forsubmersibles that need to both descend to
great depths and then reliably come back.
Now I've got my own Google search.
Perhaps even more concerning thanthese unconventional design choices
(31:06):
was Ocean Gate's decision to bypass theindustry certification process entirely.
They just were like, now we good.
This thing's gonna go see theTitanic, but we're, it's fine.
Don't worry about it.
Submersibles that carry passengers aretypically certified by classification
societies like the American Bureau ofShipping or the DNV instead of the DMV.
(31:33):
The DNV.
Uh, which verify that the vesselsmeet rigorous safety standards.
What were you looking up, Zach?
I was looking up density differences.
Oh, what are they?
So carbon fiber is approximately 1.75
grams per cubic centimeter whiletitanium, which is the preferred method.
(31:54):
'cause of its strength is 4.5.
So it would've been very buoyant.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
If they needed to get back up top,they're just like, oh, cut bait.
Here we go.
And then they get sickfrom the rising out.
The, I don't they call it the SUDS scrubs.
No, the suds is from SpongeBob.
(32:16):
The, I love you though.
It's something like that.
Um, what sickness do scuba diversget from coming up too fast?
I know it's something like that.
They get, um, SIDS.
Infinite?
No.
Oh my gosh, no.
(32:36):
The Bens, oh, you were close.
There was a letter that matched Woof.
Okay.
There is a great Houseepisode about the Bens.
Okay.
These certification processes areextremely thorough, examining everything
(32:57):
from the whole material and constructionto the life support systems, electrical
systems, emergency protocols, and eventhe qualifications of the operators.
Every component of the submersibleis analyzed, tested, and verified
that it can withstand the extremeconditions of deep sea exploration.
(33:21):
And this guy was so rich,he paid his way through.
No, he didn't do it.
Oh, he just skipped it.
Yeah, he literally was justlike, nah, I'm too good for this.
I'm fine.
Like, I guess this is good.
I mean, the point is, isthat he is not commercial.
He is not taking out random deep Sears.
He's taking out crew and Iguess they can't really control
(33:44):
a private person doing that.
But he is taking passengers.
He took passengers, but theywere employed to do so, right?
No.
Oh, I mean, we're gonna getinto it, whatever, but like,
they were running a business.
This was a form of tourism.
Those people paid him money, theygot in this submarine of their
(34:04):
own free will and died, and yes,something horrible happened.
So for example, just to give you anidea of this certification process, it
typically requires extensive pressuretesting of the whole, not just once.
But repeatedly over thousandsof cycles to ensure that it
(34:26):
maintains integrity over time.
I can't deny knowing that that isthe certification process makes me
feel better about getting in them.
It's like this would wastested thousands of times.
Yes, a hundred percent.
Electrical systems must have redundanciesdrink so that if one fails, a
backup will immediately take over.
(34:48):
Life support systems mustdemonstrate reliable performance
with significant safety margins.
Basically, the goal is to eliminateas many potential points of failure as
possible, which makes sense when you'redoing something that is so extreme.
It's hardcore.
Titan Extreme.
It's Extreme Titan man.
(35:12):
Do you remember that show?
What was that extreme?
There was like an animal show.
The most extreme on Animal Planet.
No.
Oh my gosh.
Alright.
All of my, all of our earlynineties listeners, do you
remember the most extreme?
Hopefully that's bringingback some memories for you.
(35:33):
Titan was never certified by anyregulatory board or body Rush claimed
that the existing regulations weretoo rigid and would prevent the kind
of innovation that he was pursuing.
Instead, ocean Gate classified Titanas an experimental vessel, which
(35:53):
allowed it to operate in internationalwaters without certification.
So yeah, Zach, you might beasking how is this possible?
How is this possible?
Oh, yes, that was my question.
It helps to know that maritime regulationscan be complex and jurisdictional.
(36:17):
So in international waters, beyond theterritorial limits of a specific country
enforcement becomes a little hazy, right?
It's like, who owns this?
Nobody.
Nobody owns any of it in reality, butso true, Zach and I love that mindset.
(36:37):
However, ocean Gate took extremeadvantage of this regulatory gap
launching from international waters.
Uh, and that allowed them to bypass thestricter oversight that they probably
would face from port authoritiesin the United States or in Canada.
And this decision, alarmed expertsacross the submersible industry.
(37:01):
They were like, my guy,what are you doing?
What are you doing?
In 2018, the Manned UnderwaterVehicles Committee of the Marine
Technology Society, just like,that's probably a fun board meeting.
Essentially, the industry's leadingprofessional organization took the
(37:23):
unprecedented step of writing a letterto rush, expressing quote, unanimous
concern, end quote about Titan'sexperimental approach and warning,
warning of potential negative outcomes.
They literally were like, hi, you didn'task for our opinion, but here it is.
(37:45):
We're going to give it to you.
We want it on record thatthis isn't a good idea.
People were pretty sure thatthis wouldn't even survive.
The thousand test cycles or even afew hundred, you know, 300 foot dives.
So now they're like, you'regoing, how deep What?
Mm-hmm.
It's crazy.
(38:06):
Conan who was involved in draftingthis letter later explained
the motivation quote, this isnot a sibling rivalry issue.
This is really serious.
Look, everybody around the world isreally worried about what you're doing.
Please correct your course.
End quote, Rush's response accordingto Conan, it's like, well, I'm
(38:31):
smarter than everyone else.
Oh boy.
Ocean Gate's, former director of Marineoperations David Lockridge, also raised
serious concerns about Titan Safety.
In particular, he worried about thecarbon fiber hole and the lack of
non-destructive testing that coulddetect potential flaws without having to
(38:54):
subject the hole to dangerous pressures.
So there we have an internal whistleblowerwho's like, Hey guys, this, I don't
like this, when Lockridge persistedwith his safety concerns, he was fired.
Ugh.
Tail is old this time.
(39:15):
Yes, he was fired.
Oh, you want me to be safe?
You're fired.
Fired.
He subsequently filed a lawsuitalleging wrongful termination,
which was settled out of court.
Despite these warnings, ocean Gatepressed ahead with Titan's development.
The company conducted test dives graduallyincreasing the depth until they claimed.
(39:39):
They climbed this,thing's safe we're good.
The vehicle was capableof reaching the Titanic.
I don't know how you test thatwithout getting there, going to the
fucking Titanic, but that's cool.
It's fine.
I mean, I guess there's gotta be waysbecause we test like space suits before we
(40:00):
just shoot astronauts into space in them.
So we have ways.
I just, I don't know if I trust that oceanGate was like really testing their things.
All right, Zach, we're gonna fast forward.
It's 2021.
Ocean Gate is ready to begin commercialexpeditions to the Titanic, the price tag.
(40:24):
Just take a ballpark guess of like, whatthe hell is it gonna cost for you to get a
seat on this thing and go see the Titanic.
$150,000 per person.
Actually, very good.
Guess it's $250,000 per person, but,um, insane, like cuckoo fucking bananas.
(40:46):
Money.
If you guys want to come die,just pay me $250,000 each.
Yes.
And there is no money back guarantee.
Those who signed up had to acknowledgethe experimental nature of the
vessel and the inherent risk.
So they literally had to signa waiver saying, this case,
you can't sue me for this.
(41:06):
The waiver they signed was brutallyhonest, describing Titan as an
experimental submersible vesselthat has not been approved or
certified by any regulatory bodyand could result in physical injury,
disability, emotional trauma, or death.
That was literally verbatim in thewaiver, those sign, things like that.
(41:29):
God, I guess I have two..
But as Rush would later tellpotential customers with a note of
pride, this is an experimental sub,this is a dangerous environment.
We want to make sure you'regoing in with an open eye.
Yeah, I guess he's attractingthe freaks with a lot of money.
With a lot of money.
(41:50):
And that's actually probably a good thing.
We don't have a lot of moneybecause we are freaky people.
So think about the weird stuffthat we would sign up to do.
Did I ever tell you that Iapplied to be part of the project?
Uh, that like gets launchedinto Mars and never comes back?
When I was in college, I think you did.
And it doesn't shock me.
Yeah.
Woof.
(42:11):
Guys.
The crazy thing thoughis men are from Mars.
June 18th, 2023.
The sky is overcast at the port in St.
John's, Newfoundland as the expeditionvessel, polar prince prepares for
its journey to the Titanic site,approximately 370 miles southeast.
(42:34):
Okay?
It's launch day.
The polar prince is what's knownas a mothership, so real, real
term or a support vessel, whichis a critical component in deep
sea submersible operations.
It basically just liketug boats out the mm-hmm.
The submersible.
And it also is where all of the.
(42:56):
Crew, the facilities for launchingand recovery take place, communication
systems, the mothership is very critical.
It is the lifeline monitoringthe status and coordinating any
necessary emergency responses.
Yeah.
They didn't want to go throughall the testing and get certified.
(43:18):
Yeah.
But those same people that dothe certifications when you need
them, Hey guys, we messed up.
Can you come save us?
Yeah.
I don't know where he found these people.
I mean, I'm sure they were paidquite handsomely, but they I'm sure
had to know that, they were part ofthis crew of a very experimental,
non-certified submersible onboard.
(43:40):
This mothership is the ocean Gate titan.
It is secured to the deck.
This expedition marks the startof Ocean Gate's 2023 season
of dives to the famous wreck.
At just 22 feet long and about eightfeet in diameter at its widest point.
The Titan is surprisingly small fora vessel that's designed to carry
(44:05):
five people to extreme depths.
The interior space is even more limited.
It is roughly the size of aminivan's cabin with no seats.
Uh, just a padded floor.
Everybody sit crisscrossapplesauce, kind of, yes.
It's like, you know, just going on.
Go on in and you can sit orkneel for hours for $250,000.
(44:33):
Couldn't even throw a lawn chair in there.
Okay, put us on a recliner.
We'll have two people in it.
I mean, honestly, five peopleare preparing to make the dive.
Stockton rush himself, Britishbillionaire and explorer.
Hamish Harding, French maritimeexpert, Paul Henry nar nar n.
(44:59):
Standby.
That's crazy.
That's how Luna found Harry.
He's got lots of les in his head.
It's the les.
Your head is full of them.
Okay, so it is I believeit's a French flinch name.
It is Paul Ri na zale nale nale nale
(45:23):
narwals.
Nicknamed Mr.
Titanic for his extensiveexperience with the wreck.
And Pakistani British businessman, ShadaDalwood, and his 19-year-old son, Suman.
Oh.
So he just had likelots of Fuck you money.
He's like, let me just buy two seats.
That's fine.
Yeah.
(45:43):
I remember when I was reading about thisand I learned that there was a 19-year-old
just kid on this and I was like, ohmy God, you had so much life to live.
Oh, it's rough.
Um, yeah, and I mean, as a parent, westruggle with this with Aria, I think,
where it's like you want your kid tobe able to experience these really
(46:04):
cool kinda risky things because thatis so much of what life is about to us.
And.
You have to assume the risk that comeswith that and it can be very scary.
We got scolded for having our kiddoat the racetrack last time we were
there and this dude is letting his19-year-old on an experimental submarine.
(46:28):
So I will add though that I would probablyfeel more secure about it too if I was
like, oh, this other really rich dudethat designed it is going down with us.
He must be pretty confidentthat it's gonna be okay.
You just dunno how crazy that person is.
You don't, no.
Yeah.
Like he's not Well, the weather had been aconcern in the previous days, but a brief
(46:49):
window of calmer conditions has opened up.
In his last social media post,Hamish Harding wrote, A weather
window has just opened up andwe're going to attempt a dive
For Dalwood.
The trip is a Father's Day adventurewith his son, fueled by his lifelong
fascination with the Titanic,according to family members.
(47:10):
Suman had initially been reluctant togo, but he was persuaded by his dad.
Eek, no.
It's like, oh my God.
As a mom, that just is, it breaksmy heart in like a thousand places
as the expedition begins, rushis confident In one of his last
interviews before the dive, he said,in this expedition the probably,
(47:34):
I probability the safest thingwill be once you're underwater.
There's some sort of typo in thisfrom my own typing, which I'm
sure, um, a lot of sources we got.
So in one of his last interviewsbefore the dive, he said, in
this expedition, the safest thingwill be once you're underwater.
(47:55):
You know, once I'm a couple of feetunderwater, I know I'm coming back.
I know everybody's coming back.
That's a weird way to think it.
That's a weird, that's a prettybizarre way to look at that.
But UDU, the polar prince arrivesat the Titanic site early on
Sunday morning, June 18th.
The sea is relatively calm asthe crew prepares to launch Titan
(48:15):
for its descent to the wreck.
Um, very quickly I'm gonna walk usthrough the process of launching and
operating a deep sea submersible burst.
The support vessel positionsitself at the dive site.
The submersible is thoroughlychecked, quote unquote, with
(48:38):
all systems tested and verified.
The passenger's board through asmall hatch, which is then sealed.
The vessel is then carefully lowered intothe water using a specialized launching
system, often a crane, very special, B,
once in the water, the submersibletypically floats with a positive buoyancy.
(49:02):
So it means that it wants to floatat the top naturally, not by itself.
To descend.
The pilot adds weight by takingon water or using drop weights.
The descent is controlled and relativelyslow, usually between 102 hundred feet
per minute, meaning it takes hoursto reach the depths of the Titanic.
(49:30):
We got all day.
It's fine.
Is there a potty?
Probably not.
That's whew.
That right there you'd be out.
Oh yeah.
Is everybody wearing a diaper?
No.
To maintain communication with thesurface, most modern submersibles
use underwater acoustic systemsthat transmit sound waves
(49:52):
through the water like a whale.
But instead, this guy thought he wasso smart, he used $6 walkie talkies.
Oh my gosh.
Radio waves don'tpropagate well underwater.
So traditional radiocommunication does not work.
That'd be really cute.
Titan used a basic text messagingsystem to communicate with the
(50:16):
polar prints throughout its descent.
I wonder if he used T nine.
That would be funny.
Can't text mom mad phone bill Too high.
You only get a couple characters a month.
The submersible is loaded withenough oxygen for a 96 hour journey,
(50:38):
though the actual dive is expectedto last about eight hours, 2.5
hour descent, threehours at the Titanic, 2.5
hours back to the surface.
It's a long time to go without a toilet.
That's all I'm saying.
At approximately 8:00 AM Eastern time,Titan is launched, the submersible begins.
(50:59):
Its dissent towards the Titanic.
Maintaining communication with the polarprints through text messages transmitted
via a simple acoustic system at 9:45AM less than two hours into the dive.
All communication with Titan stops.
The timing is crucial because atthis point, Titan would have been
(51:23):
at a depth of about 12,000 feetapproaching the Titanic site.
The pressure at this depth is inengineering terms, this kind of
pressure creates what's called a singlepoint failure environment, meaning
that there is no margin for error.
Unlike an airplane, that can still fly ifone engine fails or even a surface ship
(51:49):
that might stay float with some damage.
A deep sea submersible that loseswhole integrity, has no backup option.
It is spooked.
The collapse happens inmilliseconds faster than human
nerve impulses can even travel.
The occupants would not even have timeto register that something was wrong.
(52:12):
That's probably a good way to go then.
Yes.
I mean, this would be,this is not drowning.
Mm-hmm.
This is like popping almost.
But oddly, despite losing communication,the support crew on the polar prince
does not immediately declare anemergency protocol dictates that when
a submersible loses contact protocoldictates that when a submersible
(52:35):
loses contact, rescue proceduresshould begin within 15 to 30 minutes.
As Will Conan would later explain.
When you lose communication witha submarine, within 15 minutes,
you start worrying at a half hour.
You are in emergency mode, and afteran hour you assume something happened.
(52:56):
Instead, nearly eight hourspass before the Coast Guard is
notified that Titan is missing.
What?
That's a lot of hours.
That's a lot of hours.
This inexplicable delay would laterbecome a subject of very intense scrutiny.
By the time the alarm is raised,an international search and rescue
(53:18):
operation is launched involving theUS and Canadian Coast Guards aircraft
and specialized deep sea equipment.
The clock is ticking against the96 hours of estimated available
oxygen for the next three days.
I'm sure you remember this.
Mm-hmm.
The world is absolutely on pinsand needles waiting for an update.
(53:45):
News outlets provide constant updatesabout the dwindling oxygen supply.
And on Tuesday, June 20th, reportsemerge of banging sounds detected
by sonar at 30 minute intervals,which actually raised hopes that
the occupants might still be alive.
But finding a small submersible inthe Atlantic ocean, that's horrid.
(54:11):
Yeah.
Especially at such extreme deaths,it proved extremely difficult.
Even if Titan is located recovering, itis gonna be really challenging because
most submarines and rescue vehicles.
Can't get even close to 12,000 feet.
Mm-hmm.
By Thursday, June 22nd, the estimatedoxygen supply was exhausted, but the
(54:35):
search continued now with additionalspecialized deep sea robots, which were
capable of reaching the ocean floor.
These remotely operated vehicles,or roves, I think it's Rove, not ro,
they're essentially underwater robotscontrolled from ships on the surface.
Unlike human occupied submersibles,they can withstand extreme
(55:00):
depths because they don't need tomaintain a breathable atmosphere.
They're equipped with high definition.
Cameras, sonar, and manipulate our arms.
Beep, beep, boop.
That allow them to examineobjects on the sea floor in
detail in the search for Titan.
These would prove crucial for finding andidentifying the wreckage that afternoon.
(55:25):
Just over 105 hours after Titan began itsdescent, coast Guard rear Admiral Admiral.
It's a hard word, coast Guard RearAdmiral John Moger calls a press
conference to deliver the news.
Debris from the Titan has been brought tothe surface from the ocean floor, and the
(55:47):
debris is consistent with the catastrophicloss of the presser pressure chamber.
The terrible truth becomes clear.
Titan had suffered a catastrophicimplosion early in its descent.
The five men on board were killedinstantly as the pressure hole collapsed.
Creating a shockwave so powerful that itwas detected by US Navy acoustic sensors
(56:12):
designed to track submarine activity.
Now that's wild.
Yeah.
When a submersible implodes it depth,the forces involved are enormous.
I mean, that is like a giantbomb being dropped somewhere.
Yes.
Out here we hear it.
We can picture what itsounds like down there.
It is just, I dunno,boom, but like underwater.
(56:36):
Yeah.
It's like yelling underwater.
You can't hear it.
It's freaking nuts.
The pressure vessel collapses inward atsupersonic speed with the surrounding
water rushing in to fill the vacuum.
The energy released creates a shockwavesimilar to an explosion, which
propagates through the water for miles.
(56:59):
These acoustic signatures are preciselywhat naval sonar arrays are designed
to detect when tracking submarines,the failure point was likely the
carbon fiber hole, or its connectionto the titanium end caps, uh, which was
obviously the design elements that we wereconcerned about from the very beginning.
(57:22):
Yeah.
As James Cameron, director of Titanicand an experienced deep sea explorer
himself put it, there had been a lotof concern about this outfit and this
sub, but perhaps most tragic of allwas the realization that the search
with its tension filled updates aboutdwindling oxygen and mysterious knocking
(57:43):
sounds had been futile from the start.
Titan and its occupants hadbeen lost within the first
two hours of the expedition.
In the wake of the Titan tragedy, thesubmersible industry faced a reckoning.
Will Conan provided a sobering perspectiveon the industry safety record until this
(58:05):
incident, submersibles had conducted 40to 50,000 dives a year for the last 40
years without a single fatality, not one.
Well, it sounds like really the thing theyneed to do, they don't really need more
rules because they weren't having issues.
They need to bridge the gapof the international waters.
(58:28):
This single event had morefatalities than all previous
incidents in the industry combined.
Crazy.
As investigators began piecingtogether what happened?
Attention focused on OceanGate's unconventional approach
to both design and operations.
Stephan Williams, who's a professorof marine robotics at the University
(58:51):
of Sydney, pointed to a fundamentalflaw in the Titan's development.
The consensus among experts was that usingcarbon fiber for a pressure vessel at this
depth was questionable at best, and therewere serious doubts about whether Ocean
Gate had done enough due diligence andtesting and design to even ensure safety.
(59:13):
Industry experts suggested that Titan'sCarbon fiber hole may have been damaged
before the dive, which would make sense.
Boom,
he noted.
This will, our friend will notedthat the submersible when starting
the dive was definitely not in thesame condition as when it left.
(59:36):
Port Titan had been towed 400 nauticalmiles through the North Atlantic,
potentially subjecting it to stressesthat could have compromised its integrity.
Mm.
Yep.
The investigation also revealedthat Ocean Gate's testing regimen, I
mean no surprise here, was lacking.
(59:58):
Lacking a proper,
oh boy.
A proper test program for a new pressurevessel designed typically involves
crushing multiple test units to verifycalculations, subjecting vessels to
sustained pressure for months, and thencycling the vessel through thousands of
pressure tests, which all take years.
(01:00:19):
Takes years.
In, Will's perspective, doing just twodives on one unit was so far removed
from what should be considered testing.
Yeah.
Like it's, that does not even count.
And questions alsoarose about ocean Gates.
Emergency response planning.
(01:00:41):
Obviously the emergency protocolswere questionable at best.
Professional submersibleoperations typically have detailed
emergency protocols, includinghaving a second submersible or
a remotely operated vehicle.
Like what had to get brought in ave aRove capable of reaching the same depth
(01:01:03):
so that if something were to happen,they could immediately deploy something
to go figure out what's going on.
Mm-hmm.
Ocean Gate had none of it.
Neither.
None, Nope.
So what you brought up Zach, isexactly what got brought up by experts.
This concept of international watersjust being a free for all, not okay.
(01:01:26):
The industry began pushing for clearer,more uniform standards that would be
enforced across international boundaries.
Elevating the issue to theun damn the Titan disaster.
Also raised ethical questionsabout extreme tourism.
So basically the question here is,should wealthy adventure seekers be
(01:01:51):
allowed to participate in inherentlydangerous activities without
fully understanding the risks?
Like, it's one thing to sign awaiver, but it's another thing
to be like, this isn't safe.
The risk of you tying is very real.
This may get redacted, but I'm gonnasay yes, if these rich people are that
(01:02:13):
dumb and crazy that they think they'resmarter than everybody and can just
dive to the ocean because they wantto let 'em go, it doesn't bother me.
It's a hot take.
Hummish Harding's friend, Chris Brown.
Not the Chris Brown that you'rethinking of had been scheduled to join
the expedition, but actually choseto stay behind after the tragedy.
(01:02:37):
He reflected that most explorers assessthe risks before deciding to go on an
expedition, but he implied that in thiscase, the true extent of those risks
were probably not fully understood.
For all Stockton, Russia's talk ofbreaking rules with logic and good
engineering, the Titan disasterrevealed the terrible cost of
(01:03:00):
prioritizing innovation over safety.
In a bitter irony, the debris field ofthe Titan now sits with the Titanic.
I mean, that is take a row downthere and pile up the pieces
on top of the Titanic deck.
Like, you wanna be here so bad.
(01:03:20):
Here you go.
Ugh.
It's really dark.
And, uh, Zach, that isour story for today.
This runny nose is beating me up.
It is.
But, but you hung in there.
You were a real trooper.
I went on my spiel about the rich people.
Yeah.
So people now know how I feel.
Good for you guys.
I don't really say it much.
(01:03:42):
I don't know.
I'm kind of back and forth on itbecause I am a believer that you gotta
break a few eggs to make an omelet.
But also I do that with thingsthat I actually understand, not
something that I got into yesterday.
How about, um, if you're gonna breaksome omelets don't involve other people.
Why would you break an omelet?
(01:04:03):
Sorry, break an omelet if you'regonna break, if you were gonna
break some eggs to make an omelet,break the ones from your own
fridge rather than somebody else's.
Yes, a hundred percent.
Don't involve other people.
Our daughter woke up.
Um, we were getting passionate,
it sounded like dirt bikes or something.
I dunno.
It was weird.
(01:04:24):
All right, well thatis our story for today.
So if you enjoyed this episode, Idon't know if you thought it was
interesting, please rate, review andsubscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also follow us on Instagramat Final Boarding Call POD for
behind the scenes content andupdates on future episodes.
And you can join our Facebookdiscussion group, which is on Facebook.
(01:04:48):
Somewhere.
It's there.
It's in the cloud.
And a data center.
Oh, data centers.
And please join us next time whenwe will be talking about another
transportation disaster story.
Until then, remember to stow yourtrade tables, fasten your seat belts,
(01:05:09):
and prepare for the unexpected,because not every trip reaches.
It's final destination.
Good, good.
Oh, good one like that.
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