Guest Podcast with Jamie Breese owner of EVO ULTRA, a business leadership peer group for CEOs and MDs of £multi-million companies

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Jamie, welcome, good afternoon.
Yes, so yeah, we're not.
We're not gonna get, I don'twant to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
It's in my eyes, there was.
There has been 364 days in thisyear, and so there did not
exist.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
And I'm and off the Welsh in Irish anyway no.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
I'm a council tax paying Englishman in Wales now
paying council tax in Wales.
I'm pleased to say I haveliterally got the Welsh rugby
bug in it for about a year now.
Yeah, really have got a bug.
I was literally standing upshouting at the top of my voice.
They're really genuinely likeon my own.
Of course I'm wondering whatthe neighbours were thinking,

(00:55):
and it was really sad to seewhat happened with Wales as well
this weekend.
But a good effort, yeah goodeffort on every, on every count,
I think.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I think it was.
It was.
I think we've got a look andsee how far we've actually come
from with it we're when we putand it brought laws of happiness
.
This alternative to rugbypodcast.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
So were you interroled before Come on the
bridge.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, in a very amateur way Many years ago I was
brought up in London.
Yeah and mindful, I'm not goingto go back to when I was a baby
or anything, but when I playedfor the under 16s for Richmond
for a very short period of time,so I think that was before
rugby became fully professionaland whatnot.

(01:40):
Richmond actually quite a bigname back then.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, but it was yeah Well, London Welsh ended up.
That's where they ended up.
They quite a bit Too late.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
And then in the mid 90s I worked for the then
chairman of Bath Rugby over thebridge there in England and and
that was a thing I was right Igraduated from art school.
I'll probably tell you how Igot to art school in a moment,
but I my first job was workinghelping to run a video
production company in the mid90s with the wife, sean from the

(02:13):
valleys, and running a videoproduction company in Bath
actually making corporate filmsand things like that.
It was amazing experiencestraight out of university and
the boss was the chairman ofBath Rugby and back then I
really realized how absolutelyBath in the southwest of England
was an it literally it's it'scomplete identity and probably

(02:38):
remains still is more so of anancient Rome, you know, is
actually rugby.
Yeah, back then it wasabsolutely at its peak that they
were the best team in the world, I believe.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, they were brilliant and it's, and I guess,
a little bit like thePrincipality Stadium here.
It's right in the heart, isn'tit?
I loved, I used to go there alot because very good friend of
mine, sister did a lot withDyson, so obviously he was a
main sponsor.
There was an e some reason togo to a box there.
Yeah, like quite readily.

(03:09):
And I said I love going there.
She loved just turning up andtraining there, such a great
place.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
And then the atmosphere of the rugby.
So Tony Swift was the chair andshone, this was his then wife
and and he had an interest in afinancial company actually
called Rob St Taylor.
So we had this video videoproduction office, painted
orange a bit like your office,orange and blue a little bit
like your office in the mid 90s,with an editing suite.
And then how we got that was aexpensive avid, which was one of

(03:36):
the first digital editingmachines.
We're making corporate videosand one of the first ones we did
I, straight out of art school,had no idea it wasn't film
school.
Well, the first videos we madewas a little corporate film
based at the Wreck and Barth.
It was a corporate for David SSmith packaging.
I think they called DS Smith.
Now like an internationalclient straight out of art
school was a real gift.
But that's the power of sportand rugby and connections and

(04:00):
all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
I guess we'll touch on that, especially in Wales.
Now, here, where sport andbusiness is so interwoven, you
know, because they're all moreso the rugby, because it's a bit
like getting football inIreland.
The people that play rugby inWales are seen a higher pedestal
.
I think they're for what theydo.
You're representing your regionor your club and your country.

(04:24):
You're representing the threeor four million people on there.
They are held up there andthose, those people then are the
whole thing of rugby, is itwon't all the way down to such a
small little village and sothat the people can associate
what.
He has climbed up the ladderand now he represents me in the
countries.
It's unique in any othercountry.
I know, you know England hasfootball and rugby and different

(04:47):
sports, but I think for forWales predominantly you know the
football people will disagreewith me predominantly rugby, and
it's more than with society.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
Like I said at the top of the of the pod, I've been
here for about a year, so Icame to Wales to help make a TV
show, actually in the valleysMaybe we'll touch on that later
on as well.
But I noticed very, veryquickly that just what you said.
I was living in Bristol and 55minutes an hour away.
Totally different world,obviously, in some cases,
different language, everythingfrom different road signs, but a

(05:21):
warmth, and I'm very patrioticEnglish.
But I have to tell you thewarmth of reception I've had in
Wales and I'm not just sayingthat it's been magical and that
connection to close the loop onthe bath story was that I
thought bath was like theepicenter of world rugby.
No, it's, it's Wales, andparticularly here in Cardiff.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
So you've been to the games on the stadium.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
I have.
It was extraordinary the yeah.
Two days before an England, anuncomfortable England Wales game
, I decided I had a friend fromUkraine.
They said what is this game?
Rugby.
They were a refugee,incidentally, and I was
determined to get tickets.
Two days before I reached outto a member of a business I run

(06:06):
and we had tickets later thatday for sold out game.
And that's another thing I'verealized, because it's business
and sport are intertwined.
You can reach out to someone inbusiness and they will know
somebody who's got a ticket andit's not.
It's not like they're not dodgy, it's like they've got a box
and mate of theirs has droppedout.
They've got two tickets.

(06:27):
And what?
The most amazing thing aboutthat game a few months ago I
think it was in February, marchtime that international packed
stadium, great game, notbrilliant, but they they showed
the Ukrainian flag on thescreens and there was a minute
sign.
It's remember those in conflict.
It was a really special moment.
I thought, yeah, this is a veryspecial country.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Yeah, it's, and you listen to what players say about
the Prince Polly Stadium with apacked stadium is like like
Coliseum, you know they.
It is a totally different.
Like you have the old NewZealand players talking about
coming to the to play, they justlove it and the drive into the
city because they usually stayin a hotel a little bit outside

(07:08):
and they drive in and there'sjust the streets lined with
supporters, everyone getting onand it is.
It is amazing and I thinkthat's a little bit difference
the week because we have astadium right in the heart.
It's like twicking up sayinganything sticks to me.
Do I beat me?
It's a little.
Not much happens for you, is itBecause you are right in there?

Speaker 3 (07:28):
I will say this, even though it's not a rugby podcast
it sounds that way.
I will say this the two memoriesnow already which like cast in
my soul, which were very special.
I met, had the privilege ofmeeting a multi capped former
Welsh player called Rupert Moon,a fellow broadcaster actually,
and I reached out to him.
Somebody who knows somebodythat's what I've worked out in

(07:49):
Wales as well Know somebody.
They say you're good, theycommunicate that you're good in
that person's either referringyou to.
So Rupert Moon met with me andhe was chairing.
He just finished chairing.
He won't mind me saying this.
I'm sure the rugby charitabletrust is a foundation which
looks after they do many thingsand it was.
I just came into the back endof the meeting I didn't really

(08:11):
know what it was, just to meetwith Rupert, to talk to him
about working with him, actuallyto engage him in my business,
and only afterwards I realizedthat the trust these were like.
Like the captains of industry,the head of the BBC here in
Wales.
I mean it was an amazing.
They're all eating sandwiches.
I thought that was a perfectnetworking opportunity.
I completely missed that onebecause I was nibbling my
sandwiches, just sat there onthe corner of my own.
But it was an amazing meetingwith Rupert and I realized, yeah

(08:34):
, once you've played for thiscountry and you know you're and
you played on the hollow groundhere.
It's something very, veryspecial here in Wales and abroad
.
And then the other thing is inAugust again.
I can't believe how I luckedout I'm a newbie here.
Really.
In Wales we had Warren Gatlincome and speak, the head coach
for Wales, and it was the dayafter he had announced his squad

(08:56):
for the World Cup.
He was probably the one of themost in-demand people in sport
in the world.
In the world at that very dayand I must say this, and
everything which goes on inthese meetings perhaps will
touch on this later, is veryconfidential, but one of the
members was hosting afundraising event for the ABF
Soldiers Charity and they justsaid, they just said to Warren
is there any chance we get asquad signed shirt?

(09:16):
And he said, yeah, I'll be goodfor that.
Words of that effect.
And as I was walking Gats outof the meeting down to his car
back to his hotel, he stoppedand he turned to me in my PA and
looked confused like he'dforgotten his jacket or
something.
He said, oh, I mustn't.
Can we make sure we get youremind me about to get this
shirt signed.
I thought he just switched hisphone on.

(09:38):
There must have been a millionmessages from around the world,
from every news mediaorganization will question them
about his team, which had justbeen announced to the afternoon
before.
And he actually stopped andspent a moment to think about a
charity, a pledge he'd made toget a signed shirt and I
auctioned it on Friday at a golfclub.
They made some good money, sothat was a really nice thought.

(09:59):
I think there's a measure of aman is not what they do on the
world stage, but there's littledetails and that's a little
private moment.
I'll never forget that he wouldhave had the world on his
shoulders about that squad he'dpicked and the dual captain ship
and all this sort of stuffaround that.
And he stopped and he reallymade a point and it was away
from everyone else, it was justhis own thoughts and I thought,

(10:19):
wow, this is a man of greatmental capacity.
You can remember these thingsand remember that.
I got the feeling that WarrenGatlin, his word is his bond.
That was what I'd take awayfrom that moment.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
I think there's a lot of people who do say that about
him.
But now we're giving talks.
Boarder on frisbee money.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
I was going to come over two more seconds about
rugby, but I know I'm going toshelve the stage and the talks
board will be asking for us next, Jamie, let's go back to.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
Well, I guess we're when I was one From when you
were one.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yes, welcome to Everson, one of 16.
Yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Let's go back to Saad .
Let's get you all take them onyour journey.
That's where you are now.
And then this kind of naturallyshadow boat.
The business now.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
So, absolutely, snap Shot was brought up in West
London, sheppard's Bush, in the1970s.
But I told you my age and youboth looked shocked.
I'll just say that for thepodcast.
Yeah, we just dated thispodcast.
We're talking about the rugby,haven't we?
But I'll date it even further.
I'll date myself and gosomewhere in the early 70s,
something like that, and my mumhad always been in the book

(11:33):
business.
She'd been an educationalist.
We were from quite a humblebackground, I would say we.
I remember distinctly not beingable to afford things like
ketchup and stuff, so notcleaning poverty, but we were
definitely unresourced at times.
You know, and that's the natureof my mum being a freelance and
my dad, at one point most ofhis life he was a professional
magician and then he got intophotography and that.

(11:53):
So he met my mum, who was ajournalist at the time.
So, long and short.
I grew up in West London happymemories and then, when I ran
about 12, 13, my dad remarriedand he started off in the
antiques business at London'sMecca or one of the two Meccas,
I would say, of antiquescollectibles called Portobello
Road.
So I would find myself on aSaturday morning and afternoon

(12:18):
sat on the market stall in JonesArcade in Portobello Road.
Now Portobello Road on theoutside just looked like a bunch
of posh houses, because it is,and back then I think it was
still.
You know, not your Gate wasn'tthe place that you saw in the
movies.
You know, even in the early 80sit wasn't, you know.
But there's a whole underworldof those big houses where

(12:42):
there's a labyrinth of corridorsand what is effectively
underground markets.
It's really odd Arcades I don'tknow how they fit them on the
Portobello Road, but they'rethere.
So we were in one of thosestalls and my stepmother and my
dad were both antiques dealersat that point, selling stuff
largely from the 20th century.
So I got a passion for design.

(13:03):
That carried through to wantingto be a designer and artist of
some sort.
I came to university in Bristol.
I loved my time at university.
I really loved it.
But I kept my own market stallgoing, which was at the other
Mecca, camden Stables Market.
I kept that going at theweekends and would go to and
from London from Bristol and Ithink that's where I got a

(13:24):
passion for both art, for alittle bit of creative stuff,
but also an appreciation ofdesign of the past and
collectibles and also a littlebit of that buying and selling.
Running a market stall isdefinitely cut and thrust,
especially at Camden.
Stables Market literally usedto be stables.
I could literally write asitcom about the other stall

(13:45):
holders who were in my unit.
We had a guy I had the numberone hit in the 60s.
He performed with Otis Reddinglive.
We had a guy who livedpermanently in the Civil War in
his head in the American CivilWar and dressed as such.
We had a guy who used to be aprofessional ballet dancer.
We had a I have to leave otherthing details out but you will

(14:09):
never meet a more interestingmix.
Sounds like a quote from Stileshere Mosas is the space.
You'll never meet a moreinteresting mix of people,
certainly at that point, who areat the end of antiques and
collectibles.
They attract the whole sectorattracts an unbelievable rich
set of characters.
They've all got stories whichwould make a podcast of

(14:31):
themselves.
That was under short intro.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
You've nailed that.
You mentioned Mosas.
I see in Star Wars it's myboy's birthday.
Since half six this morning wewere looking at a Where's Wally
type of book for Nakrugu, forYoda.
It was those things, theselabyrinths of areas and places

(14:55):
where anything was sold.
When you were saying that, Iwas just dozing off, I was going
.
I've seen that picture thismorning where it's just chaos
and there is animals, aliens,whatever they are, and you can
take it back to that day.
Fun fact, the weird places.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Fun fact I graduated.
I passed the travel agent,which is not a word of a lie.
I hadn't had a holiday foryears.
I did well.
I did well at college and Ireally worked it.
I didn't mention that, butYou've got a tattoo.
I you can't see my face on apodcast, not bad.
There was a place calledTatooine in Tunisia, so I just
thought I'd always wanted to go.

(15:32):
This was before the prequelsand the more recent series on
Disney Plus, so Star Wars wasjust three moves at that point
and it was a distant memoryreally for most people.
But for me it was, like formany people, it was an
absolutely integral part of mydevelopment as a person, because
it was a fairy tale, it was amyth, and it's another reason

(15:53):
why I got into film, by the way,but that's something maybe
we'll talk about or not.
But I went, I walked off thetravel agent, I went in it was
back in the days it waspre-internet and I said I
there's no chance I could go toTunisia.
I went I think it was, I thinkI had 45 minutes to go and pack
a bag and flew to Tunisia, Ithink from Birmingham at that
time and it was amazing.
And I went to the Star WarsHotel, which is in a tiny

(16:17):
settlement called McMarter.
So for those of you who knowthe movies and even the more
recent ones, I think theyfeatured there's a In Tunisia.
In relatively ancient Tunisiathere were a tribe of people
called troglodytes and the name.
They're underground dwellersand they have this beautiful
kind of costume and they usedtattoos in henna and they would

(16:39):
live in this underground complexwhich was in the movie, in the
very first Star Wars movie in 90, I think it was filmed in 75,
76.
It is literally still there.
It is an underground dugout, aseries of caves built many, many
years ago and lived in up untilrelatively recently.
I was the only visitor there atMcMarter Because, yeah, it was
crazy, I was on my own.
I had to get to L'Oage halfwayacross the desert.

(17:00):
I shared the L'Oage with aLibyan family and, don't forget,
I think we were at conflict.
Basically, we were in conflictas British people with Libyan.
It was a great moment to sharethis kind of taxi cab it was a
few pence and then go to thisLuke Walker's, luke Skywalker's
home on my own and they just hadto handwritten sign saying the
Star Wars hotel so you couldsleep in the place where Luke

(17:25):
Skywalker has his lunch withUncle Owen and Aunt Veru.
Literally it was exactly.
You could see little momentswhere in the mid-70s the art
department still left the bitsand bobs in there.
It was that fresh, it was anamazing moment and people say
don't go to those places or meetyour heroes, but I would.
Yeah, it was a very strangeexperience.

(17:46):
It was like a very strangevillage settlement and magical
to be there on your own in aplace which you'd studied over
and over again as a student offilm, but also as a lover of
those original films.
It was a very, very specialmoment in my life.
I'll never leave me on your ownin Luke Skywalker's dugout home
.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
You've never no, I'm just thinking yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
No, I don't Like seeing those films.
Like you know, I grew up inthose films as well.
Do you know what I mean?
And it's kind of I didn't evenrealise that it was the yeah and
there is a Tatooine.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
But yeah, for those who are interested, they're
still there.
Maybe you can Google it.
You know Google it Ever since Ivisited.
But Mutt Marta is the name ofthe place, and there was a, I
think you paid a few pence andyou could literally sleep in the
set so you could get your headaround that.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, yeah, I'd love to go there.
I wouldn't be allowed you knowNeed to go alone two weeks away.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah, yeah, exactly the reason why that film touched
on people and the reason why itconnected so deeply with people
is that George Lucas Manypeople don't realise this was a
student who was partly mentoredby a professor who wrote a book
called the Hero of the ThousandFaces, and this professor had
studied different cultures anddifferent myths.

(19:04):
I've got some credibility herebecause I thought I was a
filmmaker for one.
I had a Hollywood deal as well,which I may tell you about, so
I've got some credibility.
I looked deep into it andGeorge Lucas studied with this
professor and used his wisdomand his new discoveries from
this book to discover that thereare universal stories from
across cultures and across timewhich resonates somehow when you
listen to it, in the spokenword or on the screen, or even

(19:27):
in something as simple,relatively simple, as a poem.
There are universal archetypes,and it goes back to Jung, and
these archetypes, from the Heroto the Shadow, figures usually
the Viden, Darth Vader in theStar Wars case, but usually,
incredibly, the same story isbeing played out over and over
again, and when you?
There's a really good summaryof this, actually, and it's a

(19:48):
book by Christopher VoglerV-O-G-L-E-R called the Writer's
Journey, and it's one of themost eye-opening books I've ever
read.
And what you realise is thathuman beings have this very
strange thing as a species Wordsand the spoken word and the
written word are just somethingwhich the animal kingdom never
benefits from.
And there's little pearls ofwisdom.
Where we talk about Heed theOrphan talks about the shaman in

(20:11):
Thousands of years ago indifferent tribes and how they
were looked up to and how theywould encode stories and pass on
wisdom to the fellowtribespeople and the younger
people in the tribe upwards tothe elders.
And one thing stuck in my mind,and this is why I became a
writer I think the shaman wouldoften sit down and move
runestones around in front ofthe tribe and people go whoa,

(20:35):
what are these stones withstrange abstract marks on?
And then the shaman would movethe runestones into a different
order and then he would say thismeans life and people go.
Okay, Then he would move therunestones around with these
abstract markings on into adifferent formation and show
these people that this meansdeath.
And people go oh, how does that?
You know this is clever stuffand this is the root of the word

(20:58):
spelling.
It was magical Spelling.
If you think about the wordspelling.
It's literally casting a spell,how a word or something written
or spoken can completely changethe energy.
Yeah, so that's all in thisbook by Vodker.
But yeah, George Lucas was hada unbelievable in a moment in

(21:20):
time.
He was mentored by thisincredible Joseph Campbell was
the professor and he had andStar Wars is literally beat for
beat, story point for storypoint a deep unveiling of
mythical structure, and it's nosurprise that it touched the
whole world for so many yearsand still does.
Yeah, it's a fact.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Well, that's some good facts, and it's all about
business.

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Yeah, I stopped you on your intake of breath asking
a question there because I wentoff on my Joseph Campbell
lecture.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
But yeah, that's great.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
We've gone through a channel, a lot of things before
and not only a sport and stuff,but that's the first time Star
Wars has come up.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
But I think it's good to see that Star Wars has a
deeper meaning than what peopleactually think.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
Profound and unreal it really does.
If you read the hero of thethousand faces, you'll realise
that George Lucas is a genius,of course, but he was lucky
enough to be at the right time,at the first point in human
history, to have somebody who'dstudied all the cultures and all
the great myths and stories andrealised that there is I'll
just speak one thing, and I'msorry to go back to it the

(22:32):
Herald.
The Herald is one of thearchetypes in this story
structure and if you place theHerald at the right moment in
the story, you're going to sella screenplay.
The Herald announces importantnews, as they did in the courts
of medieval England, for example, and Europe.
And guess who the Heraldcharacter is?

(22:52):
There's two of them.
It's R2-D2 and C3PO, andliterally in Return of the Jedi,
c3po is both an interpreterdroid, but he's also making
proclamations and is carryingimportant information, and R2-D2
, of course, is carrying theplans to the eventual
destruction of the Empire.
So the Herald figure issomething that makes an

(23:14):
important announcement which thehero gets wind of, and that's
often a call to action, but itis literally C3PO.
I've got a story about C3PO.
I went to go and get my.
Okay, we're going to jumpforward to when I was a
filmmaker and a presenter.
I was in the American Embassyto get an 01 visa.
It was really difficult as aBritish person to go and work in
the United States.
It's called an exceptionaltalent and I've had three.

(23:36):
It's unbelievably difficult.
You have to have an attorney inAmerica lobbying the unions.
You have to have a letter fromthe Oscars and the television
union saying they don't objectto you coming to either direct
or present TV shows, both ofwhich I was doing in a small way
at various points and I was allcleared.
I was good to go.
I had to go for my interview atthe American Embassy, so I
traipse over from Bristol, youleave your phones at the hotel,

(23:57):
you can't take them in and I'min a queue.
There's one person in the queuefor the 01 day and I recognize
him, but nobody else does.
It's Anthony Daniels who playsC3PO and of course, because I'm
a Star Wars nerd, he was reallyhappy that I recognized him
Because you know I said you wereShakespearean actor before 1974

(24:17):
when you got hooked into StarWars, and he was so touched that
I and we'd gotten so well Backthen.
I was on British television alot, so he kind of recognized me
.
He eased things off and thefact that you get you know one
means you.
There was, rufus Sewell camealong, kylie Minogue I was an
amazing company but it was.
I had half an hour, 45 minutes,just me and C3PO in the

(24:37):
relative cold, very early in themorning in central London,
nobody recognizing him, and hewas going there to get his visa.
And, by the way, he's the onlyactor now alive who's been in
every single Star Wars movie.
So he's an incredible guy andhe was such, a such a lovely
gentleman, a huge humor.
But I literally grew up with a.

(24:59):
I still have a postcard of R2D2and C3PO on my wall.
But I grew up with the story ofStar Wars album and it was him
on my front cover and I listenedto that every day and I'd
recreate Star Wars in my mum'sfront room in Sheppard's Bush
using furniture.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Can I say in our house, my little man, it's R2D2.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
The idea is it.
I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
It's not R2D2.
It's R2D2.
That's just the way it is.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
The Herald was C3PO, and that's just one example.
The Herald and he's deployed inthat story to announce
important news and also thecarry important news.
And also they're inShakespearean terms.
They're considered the lowcharacters who often the story's
told for.
And you think about it?
Yes, star Wars, again we've.
I'm sorry to get you wrong, butit is one of the greatest
movies of all time, probably by,maybe, apart from Citizen Kane

(25:47):
or Vertigo by Hitchcock, it'sconsidered the most popular
movie of all time, along withSnow White, actually, yeah, and
Toy Story 1 is now in the top 10of Best Movies as well.
So classic stories, but youknow it's worth to give it a
thought as well.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
That is some.
That's amazing, this TV film.
Let's go to Evil.
Is it Evil Group or were you,was it?

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, so I have a few small businesses.
Many years ago I was working asa broadcast the covering shows
about antiques and collectibles,and I was finding that I the
time periods between beingbooked to do a season or series
even the UK was getting longerand longer.

(26:39):
It's a hard gig.
It's like being an actor, beinga presenter and I was a
presenter with specialistknowledge and what I discovered
certainly in British TV andmaybe in America as well it's
cyclical DIY shows are popular,cooking shows are popular,
property shows are popular, andthen antiques comes back around
again.
It seems to be like a five orsix year cycle.
I was one of those cycles so Iused to organize parties for my

(27:02):
friends just in a roof terracein Bristol and friends would
come along.
I'd pay for all the food anddrink and I'd realize hang on a
second.
After about two summers ofdoing that, we had a chef at one
point which sounds very kind ofa little bit avant-garde and
stuff, but it was really lovely.
Just bring nice people togetherand we get.
We get some really interestingfriends and friends rocking up

(27:22):
and I'd make some new.
It was just lovely and I reallyneed to monetize this because
I'm just paying for it.
So I booked a hotel and for 225people turned up.
So it was just so that startedthis thing called business
networking, which I didn't knowwhat it was, I just called it
business and social networking.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
That's my calling, now telling me to to.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
I can't think of a witty thing to cover my story.
I put my phone on silent, letme.
This happened at a funeral, soyou put your phone on, do not
disturb.
I'm telling you, if you've got aphone made by somebody called
the Apple company, I like themvery much.
I used to train their productsto get me for university If you
put an iPhone on, do not disturbwhich I promise you, I did for

(28:00):
the audience of doubt it's still.
If you've got a schedule alarmin there, it will still go off,
and it went off in a funeral.
Actually this time last year.
It was absolutely excruciatingand as embarrassing and what's
just happened.
But moving on, I've kind oflost track a little bit.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Evo parties.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
I discovered what networking was.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
It was kind of landed in by mistake back in 2008,
actually, and there were just ahuge success.
So we did them in Cardiff,oxford and particularly Bristol.
We ended up having 5, 555 on 65people per meeting.
This is bonkers, yeah, but itwas unusual.
It was unusual and it was atthe beginning of the credit
crunch, not what I realized.
I didn't realize back at thetime that in an economic

(28:43):
downturn, where people arestruggling and there's
uncertainty, people still wantto meet and congregate.
And, by the way, if you have anevening event of which is only
connect was more so than ever,especially if there's bottles of
champagne and free Krispy Kremedonuts, which we got deal the
local factory, and people dressup in black tie, you realize
that actually people still needto get together, right?

(29:05):
So, john Ford, a few years I do, I do and seven or eight years
ago this month I started in factnext week I started a business
called Evo business networking.
I started it as a side hustleto doing stadium sized events.
It's been really good fun.
It's a small business I can'tpretend otherwise, but it does
bring people together,predominantly for breakfasts, in

(29:26):
a kind of a formatted way weuse online, and it grew
exponentially during thelockdown because, guess what?
There was only a certain amountof things we could do and I had
a business which was alreadyfive years old four and a half
years old so it grew duringlockdown.
Three years ago, during thelockdown, I felt there was a

(29:47):
space for business owners,particularly business owners who
are working in the SME, orsmall and medium enterprise as a
code word.
There might be a space where wecould bring maybe 12 leaders
together in a room, talk aboutproblems and challenges, share
ideas, because I knew a few ofmy friends who are running quite

(30:08):
large and complex businessesand organizations.
They would say it's lonely atthe top.
I hope none of my members mindme saying this, but every single
member, almost bar by none, hassaid that at some point,
privately or publicly.
If you're running a business,if you have staff, if you're
turning over a few million quidor pounds, very, very few people

(30:32):
understand the pressures, theunique set of circumstances and
the fact that you're on callDoesn't matter what.
Whether you've stepped awayfrom the business as a
chairperson, you're usually oncall in some way show, perform,
and I found that this morningmyself, actually in a major way,
actually had to make quickdecisions and move quickly as

(30:55):
the company owner to avoid avery bad situation, relatively
speaking, in my business Iresolved it any minutes
beforehand.
So yeah, evo Ultra, a peergroup and I opened up in England
and I've opened up in Wales.
At the beginning of this year InWales it's been going so, so
well.
I'm not knocking England, it'sbeen going well there as well,

(31:19):
but in Wales it's something very, very special here about
business leaders wanting to cometogether.
And when I had the idea Iphoned the former head of the
British Army, general SopitaWally, the four-star general.
We'd done some work togetherfor the previous year.
I think it was the same day asthe idea kind of call it Evo
Ultra, separate company, make itseparate, not networking as

(31:44):
such, a little bit of networking, but more about coming together
and sharing ideas and problems.
And I phoned Sopita, had a quickchat we met online because it
was during COVID and he verykindly agreed to chair a group
of 12 business leaders, notknowing who they were, but it's
good if you've got somethingelse, a track record to point to
when you're trying to encouragesomebody to take a punt, as it

(32:08):
were.
And he took a punt and 30meetings later this month.
He continues to chair one ofthe groups over the bridge in
England and it's a group of 12.
And he's an amazing leader,just a leader of leaders, I
would say.
As I said, he was the chief ofthe general staff.
It was a four-star general andhas his own company called

(32:29):
Amicus, which is a leadershipconsultancy.
But also it was almost mindboggling this there's 12
directors of a business calledGeneral Dynamics Corporation,
one of the biggest companies inthe world, it's a Fortune 100
business, and he's one of the 12global directors and they, yeah
, they're a big company.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Did anyone?
You've said there isn't as such, a networking event, and I
think I know even one of themembers, nick, was out here the
day and he said it's very I'mtrying to use the words it's
very difficult to moan downwards, I think, or something to that
effect.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Everyone's taught to moan upwards when you're a
business owner.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
And it's difficult when you are that one.
So I presume, like you saidearlier, it's very confidential,
that people can have thefreedom to not have a moan but
just tell other people that arein the same type of environment
what's going on, how they'refeeling, and somebody can,
either physically or throughsome wrapper and arm around them

(33:32):
and they can get it off theirchest and they can hear other
people that are on the samelevel as them understand and say
I've been there before, this iswhat I did.
It seems like a very nice nichegroup for those people that are
up there, having somebody thatthey can either rely on or just
vent.
A bad deal, because as businessowners we all have bad days.

(33:54):
But I know we're looking uphere.
We've got the two of us.
We can mourn to each other.
But when you're that high andyou've got that many people
underneath you.
Sometimes it can be a lullaby.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
I used to have a healing massage for many years,
especially when I was doingtelevision.
It was, the pressure wasunrelenting.
So, like every two weeks I hada really powerful deep tissue
massage and I'd say to thehealer, the practitioner who's
doing the body work on me, butwho heals you?
Who heals the healer?
In fact he presented himself asa healer because he did stuff
with crystals and coloured light, which actually work, by the

(34:25):
way.
Just have a coloured lighttherapy in acupuncture points.
So I said, who heals you?
And it turns out that mosthealers, most practitioners of
body work, massage, theyactually have a formal kind of
group so they swap, they tradeservices.
So a masseuse who's reallyworking deeply, and so you're

(34:47):
taking that energy off someone,I'm convinced of it, especially
if it's negative they need towant to help them reset and
ground themselves and they havea relationship with other
practitioners in the block or inthe organisation or centre
where they work.
And so you always ask who healsthe healers?
Then you discover thattherapists and psychotherapists,
they have a people who observe,they're not just professionally
, but help them.

(35:08):
I forget what they're called,but they have people who
specifically to help them andlisten to them, who are helping
others, but who helps thebusiness owners?
We were touching as we werechatting and juicing ourselves
and it came up recently in ameeting and I'm forgiving me for
going over all ground with youboth, but I'm sure one of our

(35:29):
members at Ultra said recentlythat without the small to medium
business owners and the taxeswhich they pay in the UK here,
that civilisation would collapse.
And I go that's quite a boldstatement and it sounds about
right, it feels good, but thenthey explain for a couple of
minutes how that actually is thecase and then of course you

(35:49):
understand that the taxes youdon't have a police force if you
haven't got and civilise it,yeah.
And then people riot and lootand you know whatever it may be.
But you realise, yeah, actuallyit's the predominant amount of
business is done.
So who is the moderator?
Who's the support, who's the?
Is there a fraternity ofbusiness owners who actually
help each other?
And that's, I think, going backthree years.

(36:14):
That's why I started Ultra.
So there is a bit of networkingwhich goes on, but it is
listening and talk about howyou're feeling.
The day before each meeting wereach out to the CEOs, who are
the members, though?
Either MDs or CEOs ofordinarily five million, turn
over businesses with staffcrucially usually more than 10
staff and we ask them for a moodscore.
So how's your business?

(36:34):
Zero to 10?
How's your personal life andwhat's your mojo?
What's the thing which gets youout of bed in the morning?
Zero to 10, 10, high, zero, low.
We get those in and then thegroup chair person can review
those at the beginning of themeeting.
We can identify a member Ican't go into details because
it's Chatham House rules orconfidential but a member who
might be in a really bad way,and I can think of several
situations.

(36:55):
Quite recently a member was intears, another member had a one,
they'd been in bereavement andthen something absolutely
horrible on the personal andthen we rally round.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
So that's massively powerful it is.
That's not networking.
That's pure support forindividuals on the same level as
you that they can't talk toanyone else because they're
probably at such a level thatthey should not, so they feel
they should not show any sort ofvulnerability.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
So true.
Who can they talk to?
Who can a business think aboutit If civilization depends on
small to medium business owners?
I forget the percentage ofbusinesses in the UK here.
I think it's something like 90%of businesses at SME I under
250 million turnover if you usethat yardstick.
That is the society, that's thecivilization.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Hello, where was?

Speaker 3 (37:43):
I.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
I was doing the stats for the other day for something
.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
It's something else.
So who understands the natureof having to make payroll every
month and pay?
And then if you've got hundredsof staff so let's just use Nick
as an example, because it'spublic he's got hundreds and
hundreds of staff.
I would imagine many of thesestaff have mortgages and many of
these mortgage owning familieshave probably have kids.

(38:06):
So I Nick wouldn't mind mesaying this so if he couldn't
make payroll, for example, oneChristmas, god forbid.
Families, you know, run the riskof losing their home.
No presents, no work, no money,no business owners, no business
owners, no business owners, nobusiness owners.

(38:27):
And then the other thing I do.
I mean it's a huge, hugepressure.
And, as you rightly said, theremen lead business owners who do
they talk to.
Often they can't speak to theirfamily because maybe the family
don't understand or they don'twant to bring the problems back
into the family domain, becausethe family got their own
problems.
Sometimes Friends aren'trunning multi-million pound

(38:47):
companies and doing somethingdifferent, and why would they
want to burn their friends withit?
And then you can't speak toyour staff and sometimes you
can't speak to your board.
You certainly don't probablywant to speak to your board
about a personal issue withanother board member.
So that's why Ultra is up andrunning and that's why I put the
billboard in Cardiff CityCentre just today.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
So that Mr John's assisted with that.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
Yeah, One of your former subjects on the show, I
think, if in an early episode, Ithink you said he was.
So, yeah, we had fantasticcreative done by Rebel Lion.
In Cardiff we have a nicebillboard in the centre city.
I did use something called theinterweb before I started the
business and I've looked inWales, where we're today, and

(39:31):
there are no peer groups.
I'm not joking.
There's no sales and marketinghere.
It can take up to three yearsfor us to welcome one member to
one of the groups.
I must be honest with you, it'syears.
These people are busy.
They want to take time out halfa day a month, that's gold.
So I've tried putting abillboard, a huge billboard, up
in the city centre.
It's one of the biggest ones,illuminated, and I thought just

(39:54):
to build awareness.
And it says grow, support, lead, share.
And I thought, yeah, those arethe words and those are Matt's
words, by the way.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
That's massive, though just listening to it.
Networking is all good and well.
Sometimes people don't actuallyneed to network, they just need
someone there to be availableto listen to them Because, as
you said, it's very difficult togo back home because family
couldn't care less.
Maybe at times and maybe familyrelated issue, and it's almost
like an invisible stress that ifsomebody goes to their friends

(40:26):
that they've grown up with andthey rock up in a very nice car
and they've got a Rolex, andthey just come from the three
million pound house and go, whatdo you know about stress?
You've got no stress.
We can't pay the bills.
Everyone has stress and soformat, but the people that have
been successful in thisenvironment seemingly are not

(40:46):
allowed to be worried andstressful about making pay of
law for their staff and all that.
So it's really nice that thereis an organisation or a group of
people that can get togetherand ban the shit that's going on
in their head together to helpeach other.

Speaker 3 (41:01):
You mentioned cars and that's a funny one.
I'm a petrolhead but I've justrecently bought an electric plug
in hybrid.
But it's a very nice car and Ifound, having said to people
about the joys of living inWales for the last year, I was
in a queue in a coffee shop Ihope this person is not

(41:21):
listening and I literally pausedfor one second in the car, like
going to the car park orsomething yesterday and I was
getting beat, beat, beat.
I literally didn't even pause,I just like reduced my speed and
I realised that it's a nice car, of course, and actually.
But I've worked really hard upuntil two and a half years ago.

(41:44):
I did nothing but seven dayweeks, probably 12 to 18 hour
days.
Honestly, it's come at a priceand I also believe that it's not
always about profit in abusiness.
If you have lots of staff, itis because you've got to make
that payroll, you've got to paypeople's livings.
But I've been lucky to havequite small businesses in a way
with not too many staff and lotsof freelancers and that sort of

(42:04):
thing and events is very muchlike that.
But I realised, yeah, actuallybeing quite nimble is helpful,
but it's come at a price.
And the car thing isinteresting If you have a really
old.
Okay, I'll be authentic,because I'm sure they wouldn't
mind me saying I'm sponsored byJaguar Land Rover and I was, up

(42:26):
until a few months ago, I wasturning up in a 20 year old
Jaguar Land Rover product let'ssay a discovery and I just
thought, hang on, what are theythinking?
Here I'm presenting myself asleading leaders I've got the
form, actually at the time theboss of Barclays leading one
group, the head of Sony Walesand the head of the Welsh
Football Association runningother general subpoenae wall,

(42:47):
leading other group, and I'mturning up in a 20 year old car.
Outside their show there's nota single car which is less than
five years old at Jaguar.
Sitting at Jaguar Land Rover andarriving in a 20 year old
discovery.
It's very practical, by the way, and once they've gone through
their problems, you've dealtwith them and it was a great car
to have because you can throwit around, go up mountains in it
, and that's what I like to do.
But it doesn't alter the factthat it presents an image and

(43:08):
it's not the right imageactually.
It should be something a bitnewer, a bit more economical,
not the really big gas guzzlingones of days of old and I
realised, yeah, I can't.
It says so much about who youare and if you have something to
flash, it's a no.
No, because that's yourcustomers money is spending on
nice, flashy cars and if youhave something to vanilla.

(43:31):
I'm not sure if it presentsyourself as the company owner.
It's a lot of sort oftwo-ingferring I was doing.
And then, of course, now I'mthinking about doing an EV
conference along with an AIconference in Wales.
Actually, I'm teeing that upwith various people and
therefore I can't rock up in anICE engine.
So actually theseconsiderations are the thing.

(43:52):
It's kind of you have to thinkabout a bunch of things when you
run a company.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
It's mental because for us, we plan for people, we
plan for exits and businessesfor retirement and all that.
And one of the underpins of thework we do is we tell people
where to put their money and wesegregated out into different
portfolios and stuff like that.
So technically, we tell themwhere to put it.
They think we look after it.

(44:16):
If we rock up in an AstonMartin, I'm paying you too much
money, shane.
If we rock up in a no to expecta 27-year-old Toyota Starlet,
am I the only person paying youbecause you can't afford a
decent car?
It's a really, really tightline.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
We had this conversation about ordering cars
.
We had a list of them.
We were like can't order that.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Because there is a perception exactly.
We have a perception in theworld of finance.
I'm either paying you too muchor I'm subsidising your whole
company because the amount ofmoney I'm paying you, you can't
afford a better car than that.
It's a really, really strangeone.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
When I was a broadcaster, it was okay, it was
fine, it was actually.
You know, that was okay to havea nice car, and I should add, I
think I touched this when Iarrived but I could only ever
actually drive a car 10 yearsago because I couldn't get
insurance.
As a broadcaster, I was workingfor the Sunday Mirror for 20
years and I was a charityauctioneer.
Uniquely, those combinationsput you out of getting insurance

(45:18):
.
Whatever they say, you can'tfind it.
So I rode motorcycles and whenyou're a presenter, you have
certain network televay to giveyou a car, so you get to play
some time and I lived in cities.
I cycled all the way on amotorbike, so it was all good.
But here's the thing.
So I finally found a companyand actually I was living over

(45:39):
in England, but it was a companyin Wales, a famous company
called Admiral, and they werethe one company who would insure
me, but it was their onlineversion called Elephant, weirdly
.
But I remember having about twomonths of conversations and
this is something.
Again, it's a first worldproblem, but just, I want to put
this in context.
Bear in mind I was doing sevenat that point, probably five,
six days a week.
I was working very, very hardand not doing a good job over

(46:00):
profit.
But when I could finally passmy time I was doing well on
television.
So I did have to show on affectmy own show every day on ITV1,
which is one of the main it'sone of the five main channels in
the UK with the Co-Present.
So I did that.
I was doing that day in, dayout.
It was absolutely grueling.
If you make a mistake you can'tgo back and say to the editors
of the production team I've gota valuation wrong, please change

(46:20):
it.
So you know it's very highpressure stuff.
So I anyway.
So I finally found this companyto insure me.
I was thinking about what Iwanted, the dream.
So I went out and bought apre-loved Aston Martin.
It was amazing.
It was a soft top.
I only planned to own it for ayear and that was the plan.
I think most people who werenot super high net worth
individuals they actually own acar for about a year.

(46:41):
But an insurance was a bigchunk of the of the
consideration.
But if you can imagine, and Imust tell you as well, months
beforehand both my parents haddied within a month, a month and
a half of each other.
It was a torrid year, so Ithought look, I'm going to do
something here.
I'm this age.
I've never driven a car.
I learned in a Clio.
And then I went out the nextday and bought this beautiful

(47:04):
Aston Martin.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
So your very first car was an Aston Martin.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Correct yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
I'm waiting for the story.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Come on.
So the first day, the nextmorning, so I go to the
dealership and it's an unusualmark and for those who are
listening, abroad, there's notAston Martin dealerships all
over the UK.
There certainly wasn't oneanywhere near me.
So anyway, I found somewhereand I went to go.
Look at the car and the longand short it was, I finally
thought I'm here.
I've spent three months thefirst world problem, admittedly,

(47:32):
but I've spent.
It's a dream.
I need something to deal withthe grief, I need a vent, I need
to explore, I need to get intoa car, I need to enjoy myself.
I love fast bikes and HarleyDavidson.
So here's a lovely car.
So I went there and I scoped itout.
I sort of almost knew the one Iwas going to get.
It was pre loved, so you know.
And as I arrived to go and buyit, it was a long journey from

(47:56):
the dealer and there wassomebody flying their baby
around the outside of it likeSuperman, and I realized and the
end is it was a couple.
So I realized that they werethere and I got the impression.
I kind of got the impressionthat this is the final decision
they're going to make on thiscar.
So, and I had fun enough.

(48:17):
I didn't understand things likefinancing because it's very,
very complicated, right.
So, and for various reasons, Iwas able to get in and get into
that car and just make adecision there and then, without
trying to work this all outbecause it was a nightmare, so
that was a lucky thing.
So I got this dream car.
My then girlfriend got inalongside me.
I knew I was insured.
That took about two months tonegotiate.
It's called risk of association,by the way, if you're a

(48:38):
presenter and a journalist, sothey figure that in fact they
know that you may pick up acelebrity.
So the example would be if Ipicked up a Premier footballer,
somebody from Arsenal, tottenham, chelsea, and I had a crash
because I was an experienceddriver.
But I had a crash because I'mlikely to be in those situations
at charity events.
I'm a journalist, I'm upsetting.

(48:58):
You know, even though I wasn'ta journalist, I wrote about
tactics and collectibles.
They put you down as ajournalist.
So you effectively I'm notbeing flippant here but they
assume you're going into warzones, upsetting organized crime
, all this stuff which I wasn't.
I just write about antiques andcollectibles, but they have to
put you in that category.
So again, massive first worldproblem.
But you cannot get insurance.

(49:19):
That's the bottom line.
Certainly that triple situationI was in.
So I had my dream car.
I thought it was just about themissile.
I managed to get it.
Then I got into it and Irealized, oh, this is not really
easy.
It's a really heavy.
You know, it's a hand-built car, it's my girlfriend for the
first week and I have no shamehere Left a bit, right a bit,
because I don't even drivenmotorbikes.
We're in the middle right.

(49:39):
So if you're the right ofsomething, how do you drive a
car?
So the first morning I went tocost something called the
Clifton Suspension Bridge, whichis a beautiful history and he
knows it.
There's a chicane, there's ahigh level concrete chicane
which goes up to midway throughthe panels on the car.
I went through that andabsolutely ripped up the wheels.
Doesn't matter how many rides.
A bit left, a bit.
Yeah, it was a nightmare.
So again, poor little me, butit was an amazing first thing I

(50:01):
did First weekend drove to NorthWales again with my friend Ben
Gelfren, going left a bit, allthe way through these beautiful
mountains up towards, yeah, upto, from Abergareny, aberystwyth
, up to Snowdonia.
It was just amazing, so let meput it to you that if you've
never driven a car, if you'vealways loved cars, if you love

(50:22):
performance vehicles, if youalways had that poster when you
were a kid, you literally havedreamed about owning a nice car.
And you hit a certain age whichis much later than you think
and you're finally able to drivea car and you can buy your
dream car.
And it's a manual, and it's aV8, and it's a 4.7 liter and
it's a soft top, and it's 2012and it was a nice summer and
there was a lovely spirit in thecountry because of the Olympic
Games and all this sort of stuff.
And then you drive to NorthWales and you can just about do

(50:45):
it with a copilot, going left abit, right a bit, because you
sat the wrong side of the car,because you're not in the middle
, and you make it, even though Iripped up the wheels on day one
.
It was magical, it was one ofthe best experiences of my life.
And I'll say this and this comesfrom working very hard and
putting customers first usually,and believing doing a good job
well is the most important thingabout profit.

(51:06):
That's what I've.
Up until very recent, I really,really felt that.
So they say money can't buyhappiness.
I'm not a super high net worthindividual, anything like that,
I'm really not.
But sometimes if you've savedup and you've done the right
thing and you've waited and youhave this dream thing, it can
buy happiness.
I had an amazing year.
I was heartbroken, I wasgrieving, but what put a smile

(51:28):
on my face was being able todrive this beautiful hand built
thing when nobody went the Wword as I drove past because
they associated it with coolthings like James Bond.
It's a cool brand and it washand built and people knew that
and it was a little bit loud,all that jazz, but it was
magical.
So for anyone who's strugglingin their business and thinks
there's light at the end of thetunnel, you think you can reward
yourself and it's a reallyimportant thing to do is to

(51:51):
reward yourself at least once.
And I make no bones, I sold itand got myself into a mid 2000s
mini Cooper or something youknow, and that's another story.
So, but it is well worth it.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
I think to a point I disagree that money does not buy
you happiness, because therehas been something out recently
about conference board time wetalked about this morning played
for Spurs and he said on oneday he was on two months in a
year he went out and bought aLamborghini, a Galardo, a Hummer
and a 1970s Cadillac in one day.
And you said this morning right, yeah, but it's a bloody good

(52:25):
day.
It doesn't bring you happinessmoney.
I think what is important is ifyou understand what makes you
happy and you align yourspending with that right.
That's more important becausefar too many of us especially
since March 2020, fire so muchmoney on Amazon, on plastic

(52:47):
items, trying to find happiness,whereas if happiness, I think,
is having coffee with yourfriends, then that spending
aligned with that makes sure thehappiness is forever and it
actually reduces your spending,because you don't spend money on
shit Otherwise pardon my Frenchyou spend it on what things
make you happy, if forever andever.
You've always grown up with aJames Bond fascination and you

(53:09):
want to nasty marketing DB5 orsomething, go and bloody buy it
if you work hard, if it'saligned with happiness, so I
have no issue with that, but Ithink the kinds of money buying
you happiness doesn't exist.
If you're just trying to findhappiness, you have to know what
the happiness is first and thenalign the spending with it.
It's my rand over.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
You're not a financial planning expert by any
chance.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
I'm a financial planner.
The experts in brackets mightnot be applicable.
Yeah, but that's the kind ofthing that you're doing here.
We do try and talk to peopleabout it.
It's not saving and squirrelingmoney away.
It's actually bloody enjoyingwhat they have and making sure
they have a great life now andthe future's taken care of.
I won't spend it.
I'm far too many.
Go spend the money.

(53:54):
I'll finish with this story.
A couple of weeks ago there's aclient and I asked him.
I rang him up many, many weeksago and said look, we need to
start spending money.
And okay, I said I'm going togive you five weeks.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
And then I'm going to give you a.
You were saying this to yourclient.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Yeah, that was good cool.
Five weeks and I want you tostart thinking about what you're
going to spend, because it'sjust building up and you've
worked hard all your life, right?
This was Tuesday, a few weeksago at about half past four.
Wednesday at 10 past five herang me.
She said I need 20 grand.

(54:31):
I said for what?
I'm just in a car showroombuying a car.
I wanted you to have a fewweeks and we've had a joke on it
.
But because I know the rest ofthe family, they've, they've
spoken to me and he's delighted.
He needed that little push tounderstand he needed to spend it
and it was me giving him theauthority to go and spend it and

(54:55):
he's delighted.
Now he's bought a new carbecause he really needed one.
So it's not about putting itall to the side all the time.
It is for young business ownerswho we have to kind of rein in,
but for the older businessowners it's the ex-applies and
you can never get your duckslined up in a row, because
that's something that alwayshappens.
But you can actually start toplan further out for reducing

(55:21):
your working hours or doingwhatever.
So people need to spend money.
Maybe not in the nasty market,man, the very first car, wow.
So you need to spend money.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Yeah, that's a big one for us because we spend.
We have a lot of clients whowe're all money away all their
lives and come to theirretirement and like, well, I
spend a thing they live on likeeffectively, while I would class
the COVID budget and you'relike we have to encourage them
to spend.
That's a good job.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
You're like a candy shop.
It can get people.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
It's actually very hard it is If you spend all your
life saving and now you've beentaught to spend that money and
you've never been a spenderbefore.
It's very hard to changesomeone's mindset, yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
It's a paradigm shift , I would say, if they've been
prudent.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
It takes a bit of time and I've got some clients
where it's taken three yearsinto retirement before they've
eventually let the reins offbecause they trust in the
process, trust in, like the factthat they're not going to run
out of money, they can do thethings they want to.
It can be very interesting and,like Shane said, we have to
bring some of the businessowners in because they're

(56:32):
spending a bit too much and notkeep their little ones little
corner of the eye on the future,because you've still got to
keep that in, you know, in checkand still have some fun.
But it's teaching them new waysof actually investing for the
future, protecting for thefuture.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
I understand.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Yeah, it's a bit deep now.
I think it's very deep.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
I think I prefer the Star Wars and Aston Martin
chapter.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
No, that's good.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Thank you, Jeremy.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
It's my absolute pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me onand who knows, maybe I'll come
back in a few years time andtalk about my next little
project.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
We do like a repeat.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
We did a repeat the other day, yeah, with another
Aston Martin story.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Really, oh, very nice .
You've got 250 podcasts in thecan, so we've got to flip it
around on you guys.
How many episodes is this goingto run to?
Is it unlimited?

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Yeah, I think so we enjoy it.
We took a little bit of ahiatus while we kind of had a
rethink of how we were going todo things in the business and
going forward, but I don't see astop in.
I think we'll take it toanother gear.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
I'd like to go out and about again.
I'd like to go to the businessowners place of business and
chat to them without giving toomuch away going.
You know I don't like themstarted the staff out there, but
I'd like to go in house and dothe video side of it and I don't
think we ever envisaged gettingprobably past 20 and then we

(58:02):
got to 100 and then it's justgoing on and on.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
I think the stats say something like two thirds of
podcasts don't get past five orsix episodes.
It's stupid like that.
We kind of.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Well, it's consistency, isn't it?
That's a big number you've done.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
And I think video would be the next one and we're
having conversations where wedid a little bit of video.
We did video several podcastsbefore, but we want to get to
the point.
I think we're maybe we do onebusiness and we do film it and
it becomes effectively like aseries.
Yeah, I think.
I think that's something you'dlike to do, because we enjoy, we
like talking to business owners.
We learn a lot of stuff from itas well.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
And I don't think I'm interested, so um you know
you'd be fine, Better make up.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
May I be on the nose and invite you listeners, if
they're interested, to visit awebsite about ultra.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So if, um, if any listeners areinterested in joining a peer
group or just discovering moreabout what a mastermind for
businesses in the UK can looklike, they're encouraged people
to visit evo, evo, hyphen,ultracom and there's some lots

(59:11):
of information, photos and allthat jazz there.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Oh well, link to that in the show notes anyway, Very
nice We'll link to all that inthe show notes.
We'll get all that from youafterwards.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Thank you.

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