Is SEO dead in 2025—or simply evolving? In this episode, Ryan Birch, founder of Toby Group and a seasoned fractional CMO, shares real-world insights into how marketers, creators, and professionals can adapt to the new landscape shaped by AI in marketing, GA4 conversion tracking, and the balance between paid ads vs organic growth.
If you’ve ever wondered why your campaigns plateau, why your conversion tracking doesn’t align with results, or how to finally make digital advertising profitable, this conversation has the answers. Ryan’s “inputs vs outcomes” framework helps businesses shift from wasted spend to measurable growth. He explains how audience mapping and micro conversions can make ads work smarter, and why white-label advertising is one of the most underused strategies in 2025.
This podcast episode is designed to meet your search intent:
Looking for proof that SEO still matters? You’ll learn how reviews, PR, and brand signals impact discoverability.
Trying to figure out if you should spend more on ads? Ryan explains when to flip the switch and when to hold back.
Struggling with GA4? You’ll hear how tracking fixes alone can double results.
Wondering how to use AI in marketing without falling into spam? Ryan shares how to use AI for smarter audience research.
Ryan Birch brings expertise that bridges what business owners, content creators, and professionals want (growth, visibility, conversions) with what they need (tracking accuracy, audience clarity, strategic ad spend). By the end, you’ll walk away with wisdom to improve your marketing outcomes today.
Timestamps (23:37)
00:00 Intro — Who is Ryan Birch & Toby Group
01:00 What a fractional CMO does (and why businesses need one)
02:15 White-label advertising explained
03:20 GA4 conversion tracking fixes — the #1 issue
04:30 “You can’t use ads to solve a marketing problem”
05:15 Inputs vs outcomes framework
06:30 AI in marketing — friend or foe?
07:45 Audience-first strategy with AI
08:30 Organic vs paid — when to turn on ads
09:45 Four common ad mistakes (tracking, audience, messaging, optimization)
12:30 YouTube Promote — subs vs sales
14:10 Micro conversions: testing budgets & small wins
16:30 Time-poor pros: why outsourcing works
19:00 Reviews, websites, LinkedIn: simple wins that matter
21:00 The future of SEO — reviews, PR, branding > blog spam
22:30 Where to find Ryan
#IsSEODead #DigitalMarketing #AIMarketing #GA4 #ConversionTracking #YouTubePromotion #MarketingStrategy #FractionalCMO #PaidAdsVsOrganic
To check out the YouTube (video podcast), visit: https://www.youtube.com/@drchrisloomdphd
Disclaimer: Not advice. Educational purposes only. Not an endorsement for or against. Results not vetted. Views of the guests do not represent those of the host or show. Â
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