November 26, 2024 • 11 mins
Join us as Jonathan Steele, Chief Investment Officer and Managing Partner at One Wealth Advisors, delves into the transformative power of practicing financial therapy in your advisor strategy. With over two decades of experience in portfolio theory and behavioral finance, Jonathan reveals how integrating mental health into financial planning can revolutionize client relationships. Discover how he uses principles, like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, to focus on individual well-being, transcending traditional wealth management approaches.
Jonathan emphasizes the profound connection between mental and financial health. By fostering deep, empathetic dialogues, financial therapy aims to alleviate anxieties and identify the positive impacts money can have on life.
This episode promises to redefine your understanding of wealth management, highlighting the significance of truly listening to clients. Learn how Jonathan and his team build meaningful connections that go beyond numbers, and explore how addressing the root causes of financial stress can lead to peace and financial security.
If you'd like to learn more about the show, have a topic or speaker to suggest, or would like to leave us a comment, email podcast@cfa-sf.org.
This podcast is produced by CFA Society San Francisco, a not-for-profit professional association, providing professional learning and career resources to over 13,000 investment industry professionals worldwide. To learn more about CFA Society San Francisco, visit our website or connect with us on LinkedIn.
The information contained in this podcast does not constitute financial or investment advice. Please consult your own financial advisor for information concerning your specific situation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lindsey Helman (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Financial
Perspectives, a CFA Society SanFrancisco podcast where we
interview and discuss trendswith leaders from across the
investment and finance industry.
This month, our host, TanyaSuba-Tang, Director with CFA
Society San Francisco, had thepleasure of speaking with
Jonathan Steele, chiefInvestment Officer and Managing
(00:27):
Partner at One Wealth Advisors.
Listen in as they discusspractical implementation of
financial therapy and wealthmanagement.
Tanya Suba-Tang (00:40):
Hi, jonathan, welcome to the show.
How are you today?
Jonathan Steele, CFA (00:43):
I'm doing well.
Thanks for being here.
Tanya Suba-Tang (00:45):
So, jonathan, you are a managing partner and
CIO for One Wealth Advisors andyou have well over 20 years of
expertise when it comes toportfolio theory, technical and
strategic assets allocation andbehavioral finance, which is
what we're going to talk abouttoday Sounds great.
(01:05):
Yeah, so what is financetherapy and why do you consider
it essential to clientrelationships?
Jonathan Steele, CFA (01:13):
Yeah, I'll actually answer that in two
parts.
First, I'll think about whereI'll answer.
What is finance therapy?
And to me, finance therapy islike any other therapy.
I think the finance therapysimply is helping somebody or a
group of people live happier andmore peaceful lives, and this
can obviously mean so manythings to so many people.
So it does require flexibilityon the advisor part, and it also
(01:36):
requires flexibility on theclient part so they can work
together to a common goal.
And it's also important to note, in my opinion, that this type
of relationship is a deep andsensitive request and it can
also require a lot of time and,importantly, a personality fit
to break ground in this area.
So you need to give space forthat as well.
But if the advisor is keepinghappiness and peacefulness in
(01:57):
mind, it helps to keep theadvice on track, and even if it
takes a long time to break theice, it's going to get there
over time.
And then you asked about why isfinancial therapy essential?
In my opinion, mental health isessential and financial health
is part of mental health, and sofinancial therapy can help with
mental health and, personally,for me, it's essential because
(02:18):
it's developing the type ofrelationships that I want to
have in my life that are deepand fulfilling, and as a
business, we want to have thosetypes of relationships as well.
So it's important for my team toalso feel fulfilled by having
those deep relationships.
But as it relates to a client,the therapeutic component of a
client relationship isessentially just like saving and
investing, and it's saving andinvesting you're satisfying a
(02:39):
set of goals and considering atherapeutic component to a
relationship just means thatyou're identifying something in
the client's life that it couldbe bringing them some anxiety.
Developing a set of goals toovercome those anxieties and
having an ongoing dialogue aboutthese issues can help reduce
friction in their lives, and italso can help to identify the
positives of what money canbring to their lives.
(03:00):
And what I find reallyinteresting about financial
therapy is some clients hire anadvisor to try to get these
moments of anxiety or theseissues, these areas of friction
in their lives and simply justget rid of it, and get rid of it
to the advisor, and I thinkthat's really avoiding the
deeper issue.
And so I think getting to theroot cause of why the client may
(03:23):
be hiring that advisor is whatcould lead to reconciliation.
Tanya Suba-Tang (03:27):
So I'd love for you to kind of share how you
actually put this into yourpractice day to day.
Jonathan Steele, CFA (03:33):
Yeah, how do we do this?
So you know, we do take cuesfrom some of the authors that we
read in the CFA program thebehavioral finance founding
fathers, dan Kahneman andTversky, who taught us prospect
theory, or moderate, even modernday academics like Sheffrin and
Statman who created thisbehavioral efficient frontier
Right.
But I feel we really leanmostly on from, like, maslow's
(03:56):
hierarchy of needs, and thatjust basically means satisfying
base needs first and and thenmoving up towards
self-actualization and obviouslybase needs are different for
everybody and self-actualizationis different for everybody.
But we lean pretty heavily onMaslow's hierarchy of needs to
implement this.
But what I think is alsoimportant in our business is
(04:16):
that we do our best work notbecause of our technical skills
although half of our companyeither has a CFP or CFA
designation but because we learnwho our clients are as people
and we listen to them.
But some may be saying well,you're really blazing over the
important components of afinancial relationship and what
I would say is that it's notlike we're not building
(04:39):
goal-based investment plans forour clients.
We're usually doing that firstand we're introducing
diversification to our clientsand we're trying to implement an
investment plan with somesimple approach to help solve
for our clients' needs.
But if we get that right, itallows us to expand on more
subjective matters, and it's thesubjective matters that excite
us.
Some concepts to consider.
(05:00):
First, love thyself.
Love thyself as an advisor andthen allow yourself to develop a
certain amount of empathytowards others and then build
that into the type of team thatyou're building in your company
as well.
Make sure that you're employingthis love thyself concept
within your team and they shouldhave empathy for each other.
And if I can get my team tothink about these concepts and
(05:22):
ideas, love thyself and empathyevery click, every word, every
conversation that they have withclients is going to get those
clients a bit closer to peaceand happiness.
Tanya Suba-Tang (05:31):
That's awesome points.
Now, how do you handlechallenges with clients who may
think they want or areinterested in having such an
in-depth relationship?
Jonathan Steele, CFA (05:40):
Yeah, we have a North Star, and our North
Star is act as a sense ofcoordination in people's lives
to help ultimately bring thempeace of mind, and I think this
challenge that you mentioned isactually a wonderful opportunity
, and it's an honor One.
It's an opportunity to developdeep relationships with somebody
, something that I personallyyearn for, and most of my team
(06:00):
as well.
It's a way to get to know eachother better, get to know people
better, and sometimes I bringmy own baggage into the
conversation just to help themfeel a little bit more
comfortable that they're not theonly person in the room or the
only person in the conversationthat may be dealing with a
particular issue, but it's notuncommon for a behavioral
concept to come into aconversation that I may not have
encountered, so it's a littleharder for me to have empathy
(06:23):
towards that particularsituation.
So what I'll do in thatparticular situation is bring in
one of my teammates that mayhave encountered this in the
past, whether it's a death inthe family or dealing with kids
I don't have kids that can helplead this conversation or help
the client get a little closerto this happiness and peaceful
concept that we're trying toaccomplish.
Tanya Suba-Tang (06:42):
So, for our listeners interested in
implementing finance therapy andthank you so much for sharing
all that and into their practice, what advice would you give
them to actually get started?
Jonathan Steele, CFA (06:53):
Yeah, choose your North Star.
That's an easy one for me.
Early in my career, I chose myNorth Star and I decided that
this is the role that I wantedto play in my clients' lives
that North Star of acting as asense of coordination and
helping bring peace of mind.
And as an advisor, somebodyentering into the business, or
if you've been in the businessfor 30 years, who do you want to
(07:13):
be in the world and who do youwant to be in our profession?
We've been given anextraordinary opportunity to
make a difference in people'slives.
Does that mean to you that youare bringing stock ideas or
investment ideas to your clients?
That's awesome.
But if you're doing this, whatis it that you're doing to help
make the clients happier andmore at peace?
I'd focus on that.
But if you've chosen the pathmore like ours, then first look
(07:36):
within to try to address anypersonal anxiety that you may
have had through personalrelationships and particularly
as it relates to money, and thenpractice on yourself and with
your team.
Practice what you preach.
I think that's really importantat home and with your team.
At OneWealth, for instance,each team member is required to
have an advisor to help them.
It's a requirement in ourcompany.
(07:56):
This could mean developingpersonal checkpoints, financial
checkpoints like making sure youhave a will, trust and estate
plan named, proper beneficiaries, or simply a diversified
portfolio.
But then look within to seewhat makes you happier or what
brings you anxiety, and is thereanything related to money that
needs work, and ask for helparound you.
That's the reason why we havesuch great people in this
(08:17):
business.
So practice what you preachwithin the company and at home,
and then, importantly, surroundyourself with people that are
loving and caring, and I do meanat home and on your team.
We spend so much time with ourteam, and if you can control the
hiring process, I strongly feelthat character and personality
matters, not just technicalskills.
Then have your team, like Isaid, focus on self-realization
(08:41):
of what makes them happy, ormaybe the things that bring them
anxiety and help them worktowards a common goal of
achieving happiness.
And lastly, when it comes toclients, though, how to
implement this, consider somebasic best practices in
investing.
These are the approaches thatwe all learn in the CFA program,
like risk-based investing anddiversification, but try to do
this at scale within yourbusiness, building a process
(09:04):
that allows you to monitor plans, monitor allocations and
monitor investments across yourentire client base.
Then hire people or have a teamor people on your team that are
excited about the technicalaspects of the investment
process and have them manage thescale.
Once you can do that, then youpersonally can pivot towards
developing a deeperunderstanding of your clients
(09:24):
and families.
Learn about what brings themhappiness.
Like I said, you'll see thiscommon theme of happiness and
peace of mind.
Learn about what brings themanxiety and help them reconcile
those issues that they may have,and my guess is that you've
seen a lot of these issuesbefore you as the advisor,
somebody on your team.
How do you address these issues?
How did you address theseissues in the past?
How did they address the issues?
(09:45):
And remember who are you tryingto be in the world for your
team?
Who are you trying to be in theworld for your clients?
And I feel, no matter thecircumstance, you can identify a
way to help somebody and afterhelping them, you're going to
feel really fulfilled that youtook this approach of financial
therapy.
Tanya Suba-Tang (10:00):
Jonathan, thank you so much for those great
takeaways.
I know our listeners willappreciate it.
It's been such a pleasuretalking to you and really
learning more about financetherapy.
Jonathan Steele, CFA (10:09):
Thanks for having me.
Lindsey Helman (10:16):
Thank you to this month's guest, jonathan
Steele, for sharing his bestpractices on implementing
financial therapy and wealthmanagement and client relations.
Join us next time for anotherFinancial Perspectives episode
airing on the last Tuesday ofthe month.
Want to receive a shout out inthe next episode or share your
thoughts with us?
Send in a message to the showthrough the link at the top of
(10:36):
each episode description, oremail us at podcast@cfa-sf.
org.
We love hearing from ourlisteners and look forward to
learning what you thought ofthis episode and any topics
you'd like for us to cover next.
Thank you for being a dedicatedlistener.
(10:57):
This podcast is produced by CFASociety San Francisco, a
not-for-profit professionalassociation providing
professional learning and careerresources to over 13,000
investment industryprofessionals worldwide.
To learn more about CFA SocietySan Francisco, visit our
website at cfa-sf.
org or connect with us onLinkedIn.
Hello and welcome to Financial
Perspectives, a CFA Society SanFrancisco podcast where we
interview and discuss trendswith leaders from across the
investment and finance industry.
This month, our host, TanyaSuba-Tang, Director with CFA
Society San Francisco, had thepleasure of speaking with
Jonathan Steele, chiefInvestment Officer and Managing
(00:27):
Partner at One Wealth Advisors.
Listen in as they discusspractical implementation of
financial therapy and wealthmanagement.
Tanya Suba-Tang (00:40):
Hi, jonathan, welcome to the show.
How are you today?
Jonathan Steele, CFA (00:43):
I'm doing well.
Thanks for being here.
Tanya Suba-Tang (00:45):
So, jonathan, you are a managing partner and
CIO for One Wealth Advisors andyou have well over 20 years of
expertise when it comes toportfolio theory, technical and
strategic assets allocation andbehavioral finance, which is
what we're going to talk abouttoday Sounds great.
(01:05):
Yeah, so what is financetherapy and why do you consider
it essential to clientrelationships?
Jonathan Steele, CFA (01:13):
Yeah, I'll actually answer that in two
parts.
First, I'll think about whereI'll answer.
What is finance therapy?
And to me, finance therapy islike any other therapy.
I think the finance therapysimply is helping somebody or a
group of people live happier andmore peaceful lives, and this
can obviously mean so manythings to so many people.
So it does require flexibilityon the advisor part, and it also
(01:36):
requires flexibility on theclient part so they can work
together to a common goal.
And it's also important to note, in my opinion, that this type
of relationship is a deep andsensitive request and it can
also require a lot of time and,importantly, a personality fit
to break ground in this area.
So you need to give space forthat as well.
But if the advisor is keepinghappiness and peacefulness in
(01:57):
mind, it helps to keep theadvice on track, and even if it
takes a long time to break theice, it's going to get there
over time.
And then you asked about why isfinancial therapy essential?
In my opinion, mental health isessential and financial health
is part of mental health, and sofinancial therapy can help with
mental health and, personally,for me, it's essential because
(02:18):
it's developing the type ofrelationships that I want to
have in my life that are deepand fulfilling, and as a
business, we want to have thosetypes of relationships as well.
So it's important for my team toalso feel fulfilled by having
those deep relationships.
But as it relates to a client,the therapeutic component of a
client relationship isessentially just like saving and
investing, and it's saving andinvesting you're satisfying a
(02:39):
set of goals and considering atherapeutic component to a
relationship just means thatyou're identifying something in
the client's life that it couldbe bringing them some anxiety.
Developing a set of goals toovercome those anxieties and
having an ongoing dialogue aboutthese issues can help reduce
friction in their lives, and italso can help to identify the
positives of what money canbring to their lives.
(03:00):
And what I find reallyinteresting about financial
therapy is some clients hire anadvisor to try to get these
moments of anxiety or theseissues, these areas of friction
in their lives and simply justget rid of it, and get rid of it
to the advisor, and I thinkthat's really avoiding the
deeper issue.
And so I think getting to theroot cause of why the client may
(03:23):
be hiring that advisor is whatcould lead to reconciliation.
Tanya Suba-Tang (03:27):
So I'd love for you to kind of share how you
actually put this into yourpractice day to day.
Jonathan Steele, CFA (03:33):
Yeah, how do we do this?
So you know, we do take cuesfrom some of the authors that we
read in the CFA program thebehavioral finance founding
fathers, dan Kahneman andTversky, who taught us prospect
theory, or moderate, even modernday academics like Sheffrin and
Statman who created thisbehavioral efficient frontier
Right.
But I feel we really leanmostly on from, like, maslow's
(03:56):
hierarchy of needs, and thatjust basically means satisfying
base needs first and and thenmoving up towards
self-actualization and obviouslybase needs are different for
everybody and self-actualizationis different for everybody.
But we lean pretty heavily onMaslow's hierarchy of needs to
implement this.
But what I think is alsoimportant in our business is
(04:16):
that we do our best work notbecause of our technical skills
although half of our companyeither has a CFP or CFA
designation but because we learnwho our clients are as people
and we listen to them.
But some may be saying well,you're really blazing over the
important components of afinancial relationship and what
I would say is that it's notlike we're not building
(04:39):
goal-based investment plans forour clients.
We're usually doing that firstand we're introducing
diversification to our clientsand we're trying to implement an
investment plan with somesimple approach to help solve
for our clients' needs.
But if we get that right, itallows us to expand on more
subjective matters, and it's thesubjective matters that excite
us.
Some concepts to consider.
(05:00):
First, love thyself.
Love thyself as an advisor andthen allow yourself to develop a
certain amount of empathytowards others and then build
that into the type of team thatyou're building in your company
as well.
Make sure that you're employingthis love thyself concept
within your team and they shouldhave empathy for each other.
And if I can get my team tothink about these concepts and
(05:22):
ideas, love thyself and empathyevery click, every word, every
conversation that they have withclients is going to get those
clients a bit closer to peaceand happiness.
Tanya Suba-Tang (05:31):
That's awesome points.
Now, how do you handlechallenges with clients who may
think they want or areinterested in having such an
in-depth relationship?
Jonathan Steele, CFA (05:40):
Yeah, we have a North Star, and our North
Star is act as a sense ofcoordination in people's lives
to help ultimately bring thempeace of mind, and I think this
challenge that you mentioned isactually a wonderful opportunity
, and it's an honor One.
It's an opportunity to developdeep relationships with somebody
, something that I personallyyearn for, and most of my team
(06:00):
as well.
It's a way to get to know eachother better, get to know people
better, and sometimes I bringmy own baggage into the
conversation just to help themfeel a little bit more
comfortable that they're not theonly person in the room or the
only person in the conversationthat may be dealing with a
particular issue, but it's notuncommon for a behavioral
concept to come into aconversation that I may not have
encountered, so it's a littleharder for me to have empathy
(06:23):
towards that particularsituation.
So what I'll do in thatparticular situation is bring in
one of my teammates that mayhave encountered this in the
past, whether it's a death inthe family or dealing with kids
I don't have kids that can helplead this conversation or help
the client get a little closerto this happiness and peaceful
concept that we're trying toaccomplish.
Tanya Suba-Tang (06:42):
So, for our listeners interested in
implementing finance therapy andthank you so much for sharing
all that and into their practice, what advice would you give
them to actually get started?
Jonathan Steele, CFA (06:53):
Yeah, choose your North Star.
That's an easy one for me.
Early in my career, I chose myNorth Star and I decided that
this is the role that I wantedto play in my clients' lives
that North Star of acting as asense of coordination and
helping bring peace of mind.
And as an advisor, somebodyentering into the business, or
if you've been in the businessfor 30 years, who do you want to
(07:13):
be in the world and who do youwant to be in our profession?
We've been given anextraordinary opportunity to
make a difference in people'slives.
Does that mean to you that youare bringing stock ideas or
investment ideas to your clients?
That's awesome.
But if you're doing this, whatis it that you're doing to help
make the clients happier andmore at peace?
I'd focus on that.
But if you've chosen the pathmore like ours, then first look
(07:36):
within to try to address anypersonal anxiety that you may
have had through personalrelationships and particularly
as it relates to money, and thenpractice on yourself and with
your team.
Practice what you preach.
I think that's really importantat home and with your team.
At OneWealth, for instance,each team member is required to
have an advisor to help them.
It's a requirement in ourcompany.
(07:56):
This could mean developingpersonal checkpoints, financial
checkpoints like making sure youhave a will, trust and estate
plan named, proper beneficiaries, or simply a diversified
portfolio.
But then look within to seewhat makes you happier or what
brings you anxiety, and is thereanything related to money that
needs work, and ask for helparound you.
That's the reason why we havesuch great people in this
(08:17):
business.
So practice what you preachwithin the company and at home,
and then, importantly, surroundyourself with people that are
loving and caring, and I do meanat home and on your team.
We spend so much time with ourteam, and if you can control the
hiring process, I strongly feelthat character and personality
matters, not just technicalskills.
Then have your team, like Isaid, focus on self-realization
(08:41):
of what makes them happy, ormaybe the things that bring them
anxiety and help them worktowards a common goal of
achieving happiness.
And lastly, when it comes toclients, though, how to
implement this, consider somebasic best practices in
investing.
These are the approaches thatwe all learn in the CFA program,
like risk-based investing anddiversification, but try to do
this at scale within yourbusiness, building a process
(09:04):
that allows you to monitor plans, monitor allocations and
monitor investments across yourentire client base.
Then hire people or have a teamor people on your team that are
excited about the technicalaspects of the investment
process and have them manage thescale.
Once you can do that, then youpersonally can pivot towards
developing a deeperunderstanding of your clients
(09:24):
and families.
Learn about what brings themhappiness.
Like I said, you'll see thiscommon theme of happiness and
peace of mind.
Learn about what brings themanxiety and help them reconcile
those issues that they may have,and my guess is that you've
seen a lot of these issuesbefore you as the advisor,
somebody on your team.
How do you address these issues?
How did you address theseissues in the past?
How did they address the issues?
(09:45):
And remember who are you tryingto be in the world for your
team?
Who are you trying to be in theworld for your clients?
And I feel, no matter thecircumstance, you can identify a
way to help somebody and afterhelping them, you're going to
feel really fulfilled that youtook this approach of financial
therapy.
Tanya Suba-Tang (10:00):
Jonathan, thank you so much for those great
takeaways.
I know our listeners willappreciate it.
It's been such a pleasuretalking to you and really
learning more about financetherapy.
Jonathan Steele, CFA (10:09):
Thanks for having me.
Lindsey Helman (10:16):
Thank you to this month's guest, jonathan
Steele, for sharing his bestpractices on implementing
financial therapy and wealthmanagement and client relations.
Join us next time for anotherFinancial Perspectives episode
airing on the last Tuesday ofthe month.
Want to receive a shout out inthe next episode or share your
thoughts with us?
Send in a message to the showthrough the link at the top of
(10:36):
each episode description, oremail us at podcast@cfa-sf.
org.
We love hearing from ourlisteners and look forward to
learning what you thought ofthis episode and any topics
you'd like for us to cover next.
Thank you for being a dedicatedlistener.
(10:57):
This podcast is produced by CFASociety San Francisco, a
not-for-profit professionalassociation providing
professional learning and careerresources to over 13,000
investment industryprofessionals worldwide.
To learn more about CFA SocietySan Francisco, visit our
website at cfa-sf.
org or connect with us onLinkedIn.
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