October 9, 2025 • 44 mins
In this practical episode for runners, PT and runner Dr. Rob Berghorn (Endurance Unleashed) joins Coach Chris to break down the need-to-know of efficient, pain-free running. We cover beginner to advanced cues, cadence targets, ground contact time, uphill/downhill technique, shoe selection vs. trends, when (and how) to use insoles, year-round strength training, and smart warm-up/cool-down routines. If your watch is spitting out numbers and you’re not sure which ones matter—or you want fewer niggles and more speed—this one’s for you.
Key takeaways:
- Start simple: build consistency (2–3x/week), try a run-walk approach, progress gradually.
- Cadence sweet spot: generally ~160–180 spm; use music or a metronome to train it.
- Ground contact time: aim roughly ~0.21–0.31 sec; shorter = less braking & stress.
- Hills: up = shorter, quicker steps; down = avoid hard braking; control with choppy steps if needed.
- Shoes: fit first (width & length); don’t chase trends; rotate models; use insoles as a tool, not a crutch.
- Strength all year (free weights, single-leg control) to prevent common hip/knee/foot issues.
- Always warm up (5+ min, dynamic) and cool down to speed recovery.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
All right, welcome back to the Find Your Edge
podcast.
Today we've got a special guest,Dr.
Rob Burkhorn.
He is a local physicaltherapist, and his company is
called Endurance Unleashed.
And we're talking all about runmechanics.
So I am excited to pick yourbrain a little bit and learn
more about you and how you canhelp the community of listeners
(01:23):
that we've got.
So welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me, Chris.
You know, I'm very excited to behere as well.
Um, you know, especially talkingabout running mechanics, and
it's something that I do everyweek in my business working with
people.
Um, because for us, you know, weare uh a company that
specifically works withendurance athletes, active
adults to make sure that theystay healthy and fit for the
rest of their life and keepdoing, you know, what they love
(01:46):
to do.
SPEAKER_01 (01:47):
Love that.
Run longevity is what I heard.
It's like the new buzzword, youknow, which is always kind of
funny to me that I'm like, thisis literally what's always been
in our heads.
Like, we're not doing this sothat you, you know, stop doing
this next year.
We're doing this so that you cankeep doing this because it's so
fun.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
And yeah, I mean, like I've been doing it now for
almost 20 plus years, and and I,you know, I want to keep doing
it for as long as I possiblycan.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
That's awesome.
Very cool.
So, how did you get into this?
And then, of course, you gottayou gotta just dip your toe into
a little bit of your likepersonal experience as an
athlete too.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
Yeah, so I mean, like I usually when I explain it
to people, I usually dip dipinto the personal anyway.
So, like like I would say likemy running career started in
high school.
Like I was I played in a lot ofsports when I was younger, but
didn't necessarily have one Iwas specifically like good at.
So I, you know, like I delvedinto running in high school
because I want to do some kindof a sport.
So I did uh track and field uhand I stuck with sprinting
because I didn't really know howmuch of it was gonna be more of
(02:46):
or how much I could toleratewith distance running.
So I started with sprinting.
Um, I was always a very skinnykid too.
So I wasn't the best sprinter,but I liked it a lot because I
liked going fast.
Um I was a 200, 400, 400 hurdlerunner, and you know, I I went
through high school.
I went through my two years ofcollege.
Um and in between that, I wasdoing volunteer work at a
(03:08):
physical therapy clinic.
So I knew I wanted to beinvolved in healthcare.
I took an anatomy class in insenior year of high school, and
I really enjoyed that too.
So I definitely knew I wanted todo something medical, but I
didn't necessarily want to be aphysician, and this is somewhat
my bias in the sense of I don'twant to be handing out
medication all the time topeople.
So I didn't think that was bestkind of side of things to help
(03:30):
people in some cases, obviously.
Medication is obviouslyimportant for some things, but
not just that's not just what Iwanted to do.
So yeah, no, once I got into myundergrad at Sacred Heart
University for athletictraining, you know, I continued
for two more years for my sprintcareer before I had to start
taking care of other athletes intheir sports, you know, soccer,
(03:50):
football, the cross, everythingacross the board I was helping
out with while I was a student.
Um, and then from there I slowlytransitioned into endurance
running 5K's mostly.
From there, I went to PT school,got my doctorate in physical
therapy.
And while I was there, I wasrecruited by one of my
professors who knew I was a fastrunner and asked me if I wanted
to be on his triathlon team towork with him and his his uh
(04:15):
physical therapy company.
And you know, like I it's beenyou know up and up from there.
So like I've done, you know, 10Ka good number of 10K's half
marathons, a good number ofsprint and Olympic triathlons
under my belt as well.
So it's been it's been a goodroad.
And you know, I've had many ofinjuries along the way.
So I I've experienced a lot ofthe things that people come to
(04:37):
see me with.
And at the same time, like I'vealso been, I would say, healthy
for the better half of a decade,other than a couple stupid
things that I've done to thatwe're gonna potentially talk
about today with people and andtheir their training plans and
also like their runningmechanics.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Yeah, so it's such an interesting.
I love that somebody else isinto speed too, especially in
the trash on world.
Like that that's my jam.
I always kind of joke withpeople, like I want to race and
then be home for lunch.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
Right.
Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
So cool.
So yeah, I mean, I I know thatthis population is really
interested in doing everythingbetter, uh.
So when it comes to runmechanics, I mean, who's really
uh taught how to run?
You know, and so many of so manypeople pick up endurance sports
later on in life.
(05:27):
It's like, okay, well, you know,here I go.
So what so I'd like to talkabout what uh what does a
beginner do?
And then what are some moreintermediate or advanced metrics
that we need to think about?
And then really digging intosome of the metrics because our
watches tell us everything now.
So let's start with the beginnerrunner.
(05:48):
If someone wants to get intorunning and they want to make
sure that they don't get hurt,do you have any tips or
recommendations on how theyshould start?
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
Yeah, so I mean, I I think a lot of the things that
people kind of get hung up in,and whether this is the person
that likes to do their researchbefore they do it.
So, you know, someone who delvesinto YouTube and Instagram and
see all the quote unquoteexperts and influencers on on
online that will teach themdifferent things that they want
to do before they get started,or if it's someone who just
wants to lace up and just startdoing something, you know, it's
(06:19):
it's all good, but at the sametime, we have to keep in mind
where we're currently at.
And I think that's where a lotof beginners kind of get lost.
They want to be the bestalready, right out the gate, and
they get frustrated sometimeswith not being good or not being
able to do certain things thatthey feel like they could have
done when they were younger.
So I think that's where a lot ofpeople kind of get lost in it.
(06:41):
At the same time, the things tofocus on is just getting
consistent initially.
Setting a schedule for yourself,whether that's a couple of days
a week, I would say two to threetimes a week, three times would
probably be like get started.
And it's okay if you're out ofshape, if you're a little bit on
the overweight side, and ifyou're trying to get started
with running, to do a run-walkmethod.
(07:02):
And that's called the Gallowaymethod.
It's very effective, especiallyif you are trying to, you know,
just kind of focus on finishinga certain amount of time or get
to a certain distance, justgetting there, however, you want
to get there, however, you canget there, setting a specific
interval, whether that meansdoing three minutes on of a
little bit of a jog and thendoing a walk for a minute or
(07:24):
two, whatever that is, just tryand don't get frustrated, be
consistent with it, slowlyprogress and slowly improve.
You'll get there injury free.
SPEAKER_01 (07:33):
Okay, great tips.
So basically, like have somegrace with yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
Correct.
Definitely have some grace.
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
Because I I know so many people were like, they went
on two runs, and then they'relike, Oh my gosh, I'm so bad at
this.
I am not a runner.
And then they stop.
And I'm like, okay, well, let'slet's not own that identity of
being like, ah, running stinks.
Like, you gotta stick with it.
It's just like learning how todo anything.
SPEAKER_00 (07:56):
Even for me as a sprinter, like when I was in
high school, I didn't get gooduntil middle of junior year of
high school.
And you know, like once I evengot to college, things
completely changed.
I went from being a very skinnyguy to like a I gained 30 pounds
of muscle in my freshman yearjust because I wasn't
weightlifting.
So I didn't get much faster justbecause I added 30 pounds, but
(08:17):
at the same time, you know, itwas it was definitely a jump and
a change.
So like there's differentfactors that happen with that
too.
So if there's someone who is outthere is overweight and by doing
nutritional changes and andgetting started with running by
losing some weight, could youjust get better and faster by
doing that?
Yes, but you have to beconsistent and stick with it.
Um, so again, don't getfrustrated.
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Yeah, totally.
And and what I'm thinking of,especially from like a metabolic
testing perspective, so like aphysiological standpoint, what
is your the automatics when youstart and then progress?
Typically, when you're abeginner, you're gonna make big
leaps in just starting to tunethe heart and lungs from a
cardiovascular perspective.
And then there's the skill setof actually running, right?
(09:00):
Which is obviously yourspecialty of like actual
mechanics, running safely,running properly.
And I love the run-walk method.
So that those are our beginners.
So stick with it, y'all.
Now we get into the folks who'veprobably been running for a
while, and now they're reallystarting to think about speed,
and maybe they've got littleniggles here and there.
(09:21):
So and then we've all got thesefancy watches that tell us like
our ground contact time and likeand our cadence, and what do we
pay attention to, what do we notpay attention to, what's
valuable, what's not valuable,and what are those next steps
for the people who are reallywanting to take their running to
the next level.
unknown (09:38):
Yeah, cool.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:39):
So I mean, like as far as like the people who like
I'll even branch it a little bitbetween the people who are, you
know, like a little bit moreadvanced and the people who are
transitioning from beginners.
I would say like if you'retrying to find now that you're a
little bit more consistent, nowthat you're considering yourself
even a runner, you know, I wouldsay things to start looking at
is just we'll look at one thingat a time.
Don't focus on, no, I'm gonnafocus on my my cadence today,
(10:03):
along with my ground contacttime, along with hitting my
hitting the groundappropriately.
Focus on one thing at a time,refine it, focus on becoming a
little bit of a quote unquoteexpert at that, hit those
appropriate mechanics, and thenfrom there continue to to add in
different aspects of it.
So I would say like a couple ofthings for the more advanced
people.
(10:23):
I would say the biggest thingthat we could probably work on
initially and the easiest thingto just implement very, very
generally is your cadence.
Cadence is something that is notonly going to help, but it's
also going to help you more bemore efficient.
A lot of the times I seeathletes that are generally also
still within that good cadencerange.
(10:44):
Um, and I'll talk about that ina second.
Um, but at the same time,they'll still deal with injury,
and that we'll talk a bit a bitabout that, I'm sure, as we go
through.
So it's not all about cadence,but at the same time, it's
something that that is importantto have.
So cadence, the appropriatecadence range, I would say, is
between 160 and 180, with 180 or160 to 210, technically, but 180
(11:07):
is kind of like the the uh kindof golden number, what we want
to kind of get to.
And the simplest easy way for usto do that, especially if you
listen to music while you run,is to just play music that's
about 170, 180, whatever you'retrying to hit for that day.
If you're stuck at below 160,just gradually improve that kind
of window of beats per minute inthe songs that you like to
(11:30):
listen to.
So if you're at 140, bring playsomething that's at 150s and
just do that for your run andthen continue to gradually build
that up.
You can also just put ametronome on your phone.
If you're running on thetreadmill and just hit the
metronome on your phone and thenjust have it every time that
metronome beeps, you're justtaking that next step.
So that would be the best forthat.
If you're able to improve yourcadence, that's also gonna help
(11:52):
with that ground contact timethat we were talking about
before.
And that would be the next thingI would say we could talk about.
Because the more time that we'respending on the ground, the more
force that's being exerted onour body.
Obviously, if you've seen any ofthe research, you know, there is
a lot of multiples of bodyweight that we're experiencing
with every footfall.
And if we're, for example, doinga 5K, we're going for about
(12:14):
5,000 steps per 5K.
So it's a lot of weight thatwe're experiencing.
So we need to be able to notonly absorb that force, but we
also need to overcome it so wecan take the next step.
So that that that ground contacttime is important in the sense
that the more we're in the air,be as an athlete overall, and
the less injured we're gonnaget.
So that ground contact timenumber is gonna be anywhere
(12:36):
between 0.21 to 0.31 of uhhundredths of a second.
So basically, if we're withinthat range, it's gonna be very
beneficial in avoiding injury.
Um because the more time we'reon the ground, like I was saying
before, the the more stresswe're putting on our body, the
more risk we're gonna have forinjury, the most, the more time
(12:56):
we're also gonna need to recoverjust because that that exertion
being put on our body.
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
So I heard you say cadence and ground contact time.
And what's coming up for me istwo things that I'm curious
about is this all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
As close to perfect as possible, right?
Yeah.
So I mean, obviously it's notgonna be every step, but you
want to try and be as close toit as you possibly can uh
throughout.
I mean, as you get moreefficient, as you become better,
a better runner, as you becomemore in tune with how your
body's feeling while you'rerunning, and that's another
thing we can talk about as wellif you want, just how how you're
how you should be going aboutfeeling your body as you're
(13:32):
running.
So, like it as you become moreattuned to what you should be
feeling, knowing what 160 beatsfeels like, or one 180 steps per
minute feels like, and also howlong you feel like your foot's
on the ground for for a givenperiod of time.
You should obviously once youget within that range, you know
how it should feel.
And therefore, if you'renoticing it, it's either, oh,
(13:53):
something's coming up, or I'mfatigued for today.
And maybe I need to cut my runshort today so I don't cut start
feeling like aches and pains, orif I'm starting to feel aches
and pains, why is it happening?
Do I feel like I'm within therange that I used to be?
Can I should I check my watch?
Should I check Strava?
Should I check Garmin?
Whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (14:09):
And then what about like, should do these numbers
change if you're descending orclimbing a hill?
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Yeah, so obviously that's gonna definitely change.
And also depends on yourmechanics while you're going up
and downhill.
Because those are alsodifferent, different aspects
too.
I would say the better way to goabout going uphill is to make
more shorter, choppier steps,just to help not only with,
especially if you're not as muchof somebody who can VO2 max wise
(14:37):
sustain your pace as you'regoing overhill.
If you're someone who needs toslow down while you're going
over a hill, I would sayshortening up your stride, doing
more shorter, choppier steps.
So increasing that cadence isgonna be more efficient to not
only not blow up the thecardiovascular aspects, but also
to not overload your legs sothat you're able to just get
over the hill and and work yourway rather than trying to muscle
(15:00):
it through, and then at the topof the hill you need to stop
because you're all blown up.
SPEAKER_01 (15:03):
I hear that a lot, like you know, I'm gonna die at
the top of the hill.
So, what I hear you saying isthere's technique.
There's technique for climbingand perhaps technique for
descending too.
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Yes, and there's there's tech definitely
technique for going downhilltoo, because a lot of the people
what they tend to do, and thisis where most people I would
find when they're doing hilltraining that they tend to get
the most injury, just becausedescending, eccentric control is
what we would call it, is theharder muscle contraction.
It's gonna be the hardest onyour body, especially if you're
someone who runs downhill andlikes to break themselves rather
(15:37):
than, you know, allow gravity tosomewhat take you down the hill.
So, again, if you're someone whocan't necessarily muscularly
control yourself down the hill,I would say again, shorter,
choppier steps, um, just soyou're not like breaking your
foot into the ground and slowingyourself down intentionally, but
taking those shorter steps.
So, again, we're not putting somuch stress into our body.
(15:58):
And also we're getting down thehill more gradually rather than
just allowing our body tofreewheel it and we start
accelerating, accelerating,accelerating until we hit the
bottom of the hill, like Isometimes do, especially when
I'm racing.
But you know, like I've been asprinter, so I'm able to
tolerate the higher leg turnturnover.
So, like that's that comes withskill and experience as well.
So that's that's definitely adifferent, different kind of
(16:20):
technique.
SPEAKER_01 (16:21):
So is sound something that we should be
tuning into at all when we'rerunning, like how heavily we
slap the ground or touch theground, like should we aim to be
like a quiet runner or like howdoes that play into it?
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
Right.
So obviously we don't want to bestomping into the ground.
And at times I'm going to sayonce we're at faster speeds,
well, we we will tend to be alittle bit louder into the
ground.
And I would say we want to tryand be as quiet as possible in
the sense that we'retransitioning from footfall to
footfall because the the lessimpactful we're putting direct
force into the ground, you know,obviously we're taking some of
(16:58):
that stress that's going backinto our body away.
Because really what we should befocusing on is almost slapping
the ground and in the sense oflike if you're if you ever spin
like a tire, so like you know,for example, with you, Chris,
like you flip your bike over andyou spin the wheel.
The only way to make it fasteris to just smack the the side of
the wheel at a, if we're gonnaget scientific here, a
(17:19):
tangential angle uh that's gonnabe directly parallel to it.
As long as you keep doing that,it's going to make that wheel go
faster and faster.
So the closer we can get todoing that, the better off we're
gonna be and the less injurywe're gonna have.
So if you're just constantlymashing into the ground with
your foot coming straight down,we're going to have greater
force in our body and morestress, leading to potential
(17:39):
injury in that way.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
So what so let's get into some of the injury stuff
because you know, intheoretically, we're all running
generally softly and have thisbeautiful cadence and ground
contact time.
Like when do some of thesethings go awry?
Like, is it usually from theground up?
Is it the top down?
Like, is it just no rhyme orreason?
We're all just wonderfullyunique and uh and that's where
(18:03):
you come in, or it's so talk usthrough some of those common
injuries.
SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
Yeah, so the the I will I'll talk about some of the
injuries first uh in relation tothe mechanics, and then we'll
also talk a bit about um injuryin the sense of the actual
mechanical aspect or the runningform itself, too.
Um I would say I would most ofthe injuries that happen or
pop-up, and and and this isspeaking not only to the
(18:28):
beginners, but also to thepeople who are a little bit more
advanced or trying to becomemore efficient or trying to get
faster and then just not goingthe right way about it, is they
become a little bit more ofthis.
Is more especially for thebeginners.
They just try to run fast allthe time.
They don't necessarily adjusttheir pacing.
And this is where we starttalking about zone training a
(18:50):
bit, where we focus on a littlebit more of the 80-20 rule,
where a lot of our mileage is onthe slower side, and we have a
small percentage that's on ahigher end, whether that's
interval runs or or VO2 max runsor or uh you know any of those
kind of kind of aspects of ourrunning schedule.
Um and then also it's justthey're doing too much too fast,
(19:12):
too soon.
They don't progress as well, uh,or they don't they progress too
much as far as their distancethat they're trying to run,
whether they're someone who's a5K that wants to start doing a
half marathon and they want todo that training in in less than
three months.
You know, that's a little bit ofa tight schedule for somebody
who's brand new to half marathontraining.
So if we're if you have thatkind of situation, that's where
I do see a lot of it.
(19:33):
It's just too much on the bodyall at one time.
Um, that that leads to generalissues.
As far as like the mechanicsaspect and running form, I would
say it's specifically the way Ilike to look at people when I
analyze their form is I do liketo start from the bottom up, but
at the same time, I still focusfrom the central down too, and
(19:53):
also what's going on higher upin the neck, the head, the neck,
and the shoulders.
Because it all feeds into what'sgoing on overall and the picture
that you have for your body,because all that's going to
affect the forces you impartinto the ground and also the the
forces that are being impartedon you.
So I would say the biggest thingthat most people will have that
are issues are too muchpronation or not being able to
(20:16):
control their foot and also notbeing able to control their hip,
which leads to most what mostrunners deal with is running is
knee injuries.
Um it's never the knee itselfthat's the problem, it's always
the foot and or the hip.
Um so I always tar I usuallytarget those, and those are the
ones I really specifically focusmost of my time on.
But at the same time, if you'resomeone who doesn't have a
(20:39):
strong pore, so that could beyour hips and or your your
abdomen.
If you don't have good controlthere either, that can also
affect what's going on higher updown below, and can also lead to
a bunch of different injuries.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Yeah, what's coming up for me is um we see a lot of
like, especially women, when wewatch them from the back, their
hips, like one hip, will drop.
So when you see something likethat, for example, what could be
potential injuries and then whatcould be potential things to
help correct that?
Is it mobility, is it strength,is it a little bit of both?
SPEAKER_00 (21:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
Or awareness techniques.
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Right.
Yeah, that's very that's a verygood question.
I mean, I I don't know how muchyou guys also look at that from
also a front uh side angle, too,because sometimes you can also
notice that their pelvis is alsotilted forward.
Um, or like when they go to pushoff instead of pushing off from
their from their hip, they startpushing off from their spine
instead.
So that can lead to to higher upinjuries too.
Um, but yeah, now that'ssomething I do see very common,
(21:36):
especially with women.
Partially that's because of theway that you know women are
developed.
Uh wider hips and what we callthe cue angle.
So basically the angulation fromwhere the hip kind of is in line
with the knee, the larger thatangle is, the more strong you
need to be in order tocounteract that force.
So basically it's it's mostlygoing to be strength, stability,
(21:59):
and control.
Generally, if and and this iswhere some athletes that I see
that get frustrated withtraditional physical therapy,
unlike what we do here, uh, whatthey get frustrated with
traditional therapy is that theytell them that they're weak.
You know, they're very strongwomen, they do their strength
training, they do what they'resupposed to do, they do their
mobility work, uh, but they'restill dealing with either hip,
(22:22):
low back, hand or knee pain, andthey can't necessarily figure
out what the problem is.
And in general, it's becausethey're not educated necessarily
on what the real issue is, andit's really the control of that
strength rather than the actualstrength itself.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
So this is not like I squat, amazing, wait, and I
deadlift.
It's so awesome.
And I can look at me holding myplank, and yet I'm still having
these issues.
It's uh almost sounds like alike a almost like a kinesthetic
sort of awareness or connectionthat they're needing to control.
(22:57):
So yeah, tell me a little bitmore about how your approach is
unique in that respect.
SPEAKER_00 (23:02):
Yeah, it's one thing that's different from you know
the traditional physicaltherapists versus what we do is
you know, we focus number one onyou know, runners, endurance
athletes, you know, that'sthat's one thing.
We have the knowledge, we havethe background, what you're
experiencing, unlike what mostphysical therapists do, and they
just focus on a general aspectof things.
I would say also in the sensethat, you know, when we
specifically look at yourrunning form, your running
(23:25):
mechanics, what you dospecifically outside of that to
make you a better runner.
So, like we were talking aboutthe strengthening, you know, you
squat, you deadlift, you you doplanks.
It's can you tolerate that in asingle leg format?
If you don't, if you're someonewho doesn't single leg strength
train, if you're someone whodoesn't work on your balance and
stability, your control, thenobviously that's something that
(23:46):
I'm first going to.
If you're someone who does dothat, are you doing it correctly
or are you making, you know,compensations where you don't
necessarily feel that you are,but I can see it based off of
what I've been able to study andwhatnot.
So some people, you know, cancompensate very, very well by
things that shouldn't be doingthat.
Um, and that's why why they maybe dealing with some of the
(24:06):
pain.
So for example, someone withdealing with back pain, but has
a contrary, so basically wewould call a contralateral
opposite side hip.
So if my if my left back bothersme all the time, but I notice a
hip drop or a hip side shift onthe right side, it's because
their low back on their leftside is compensating and keeping
trying to keep their hip levelon the right side, but it can't.
(24:29):
That's not what it's supposed todo.
So it's it's a lot of thingsthat go into it, but at the same
time, it's very specific tothose types of people.
So that's what I try to reallybreak down for people first so
we can figure out root causesand kind of build you back up to
not only make your squatdeadlifts plank better, but also
give you tools to work on thesmaller fine-tuning muscles that
(24:51):
help with that control andstability on top of it.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
That's cool.
And um, somebody who's gonethrough your videoing process,
it's always so like in yourhead, you're like, but I
thought, and you're like, butnow we have evidence, and then
you know, slowing it down, whatyou think in your head may be
happening may not actually behappening.
So this, so uh you know, havinggoing through the process like
(25:16):
you do of videotaping people andum pointing things out is
obviously really important.
And then and then what are kindof like next steps that people
do with that?
It's like, okay, well, my we seemy hip is dropping uh now what?
Or we see my oh, you know, I'mpronating too deeply or whatever
(25:36):
the case may be.
Then kind of what's what's nextsteps for people?
Because you know, if you look ata it's kind of like, well, what
should it look like?
And at least in my head, I'mlike, I should look like an
Olympian, shouldn't I?
You don't know until youactually see it and then have
somebody like you evaluate it.
And then what do you do withthat?
SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
So I mean the I I guess another unique thing about
what we do or what I dospecifically in my practice is
you know, I take an athlete likeyou, like you just competed in
the X Dura World Championships,right?
So like you're you're ahigh-level performer.
So it's like, you know, you'redoing great with what you have
right now.
And this is this goes back toalso like you were mentioning,
the Olympians, the pros that areout there.
There's a lot of pros out therethat have quote unquote faulty
(26:18):
mechanics.
It's just like, is it workingfor them?
And why is it working for them?
So we I analyze that a littlebit.
And then is it causing you pain?
And like we focus on on thataspect.
So, like, if it's not causingyou pain, it's allowing you to
be be great at what you do, I'mnot gonna change much of it.
But at the same time, if there'sthings that are causing you
(26:39):
pain, causing you issues, am Igonna change it?
Yes.
But I would also focus on thebuilding blocks too.
So, like, if you're someone whohas that hip drop that we were
talking about, um, and theycan't control their hip very
well, I'm gonna focus, I'm gonnabring you back down to a
specific strength training levelthat's gonna be very minute and
(26:59):
specific to certain muscles thatare gonna help with that
stability and then build you upfrom there.
And at the same time, we'llbring you back in a couple of
weeks later, see if that hipdrop's still happening.
If it is, then we're gonna startworking on a little bit more
fine-tuning of why is that stillhappening?
Is it more uh balance ofcontrol?
Is it your body awareness?
So we focus a little bit more onthat.
(27:20):
And then we we also try to,while you're running, focus on
different aspects of what areyou feeling as we're doing this?
Do you feel like it's this?
Can you try and exert this way?
So, for example, like if we'retalking about the hip drop, if
we can focus on as we're kind ofpushing off, that we're
utilizing the two um extend ourhip a little bit differently as
(27:43):
we're as we're pushing off withthat foot rather than just going
about and running.
SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
You mean I shouldn't start there, right?
Just running up a mountain andhoping that everything goes
well.
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
Correct.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:57):
That sounds like an Achilles disaster, is what I'm
thinking about, which uh againgoes into like the skill and
mechanic of being able toappropriately run uphill.
But what about shoes?
Is that something that you lookat?
Or is that you know, I don'tshoot, I don't even know what
what the trend is these days.
We went from zero drop to a lotof drop to like you know, a
(28:19):
minimalist to maximalist, liketo foam, no foam.
You know, somebody asked me theother day, like, do you wear
carbon plated shoes?
SPEAKER_00 (28:25):
I'm like, carbon plates, yep, fiber plates, yeah.
So yeah, no, I'm I'm seeing allof it.
Don't worry.
Um, yeah, so I mean that'sthat's a very good question.
I mean, I I I definitely see thegamut too.
I mean, I even had a few clientsrecently who every week would
bring me in a new pair of shoes,like, is this good for me?
Is this good for me?
So, like, it's it's definitelysomething that's that that
people do focus on, and it'sokay to focus on it for a bit,
(28:48):
but once you find somethingthat's a good general fit, then
that's then it's then it's good.
You know, the first things Iusually focus is does your foot
fit the shoe?
Because like if your footdoesn't fit in the shoe, then
then obviously it's not going tobe good for you.
Um, I don't focus on brand.
Brand is the last thing,absolute last thing I focus on.
First and foremost, it's yourfoot, and also like how your
body reacts to just regularground without any shoes on.
(29:12):
So if you're someone whooverpronates already, someone
who over pronates while they'reon while they're running, um,
then we're looking more towardsneutral/slash stability shoes.
For someone who has high archesand has trouble with stress
injuries, like you know, shinsplints, stress fractures,
stress reactions, those kind ofthings, I'm thinking more
cushion for you.
But at the same time, um, yeah,obviously there's things, terms
(29:33):
out there called stack height,how much foam is in there, heel
drop ratio, how much diffdifference between the height of
the heel and the height of thetoe.
Those are all things thatespecially beginner runners get
lost in all the time.
And that's why if you are gonnago to um a store like Fleet Feet
or seek out your specializedrunning physical therapist like
(29:54):
myself, we can help you teaseout that a little bit better,
especially if you're a beginnerrunner, like what shoe is gonna
be best for you.
But basically, you want yourentire foot to fit within that
sole of the shoe.
You don't want to have like ifyou stand on your shoe and you
notice that either your pinkytoe or your big toe is spilling
out over the side of the shoe,that shoe is not wide enough for
(30:15):
you.
Additionally, you should be ableto take your thumb and put it
thumb's width over the front ofthe shoe.
And if you can't touch your toe,then you're good as far as like
fit-wise.
Um, you want it to necessarilystay on your foot, you don't
want it to be sliding off yourheel.
If you're looking for some for ageneralized shoe that's not
minimalist, you don't want to beable to push down the back of
(30:36):
the heel.
You don't want to be able towring it out like a sponge, you
don't want to be able to fold itin half.
Um, so all those are all goodbasic things for you to focus on
so that you don't have any kindof injuries pop up in that
sense.
But I will say that if you doget a shoe that has a lot of
foam, I've seen plenty ofrunners, especially the whole
time I was running New York CityMarathon when the outflies were
(30:58):
super huge at the time.
There are people that should notbe wearing those shoes that had
the inside of their ankles onthe ground because there was too
much foam in there for them totolerate.
And this was like not even liketowards the end of the marathon.
This was at the beginning of themarathon.
So I don't know how they did,but at the same time, there were
nightmares that I was seeing thewhole time.
(31:19):
Now that that doesn't includethe nightmare of the heat and
the vomiting and the passing outthat I've saw saw during that
race, too.
Don't discourage people fromrunning.
Like your race this past past uhcouple weeks, like that was not
a great race for me either.
SPEAKER_01 (31:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's there there are uniquesituations certainly in racing
and and definitely in runningand definitely in marathon.
Oh my goodness.
So yeah, it sounds like we canwe can easily be caught up in
the marketing and the trends andwhen it may not also always be
something that's beneficialspecifically to our own personal
(31:58):
running.
SPEAKER_00 (31:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
What about insoles?
Is that you know, so like wetalked about shoes and we found
a good shoe, but like areinsoles something that we should
all just get?
Or is that case by case?
Is does it differ like rightfoot to left foot, or how do you
approach that topic?
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
Yeah, so I mean, uh yeah, I'm glad you brought that
up because that is something Ido get asked about a lot.
And this is also the and I'mblanking on the name of the
company, but they it's not acarbon plate, but it's like a
fiber plate.
I think it's called vortex.
I could be completely wrong.
Um, but they they help with theextra sprain too.
So I've I've they they help.
Um, and and all insoles andwe're if we're talking about
orthotics as well, they help.
(32:36):
But when I approach somebodywith orthotics or someone who's
thinking about gettingorthotics, or even the aspect of
podiatrists who love torecommend orthotics just because
it does cost a lot and they doget a lot of money for it, is
it's a tool.
It's not something that you'reso like I have flat feet, I'm
more of a supple flat foot, buteven when my foot's in the air
and basically I'll back up alittle bit.
(32:58):
Sumple flat foot is basicallyum, you have an arch when your
foot's not on the ground, andyour arch disappears when your
foot's on the ground.
Um, you know, then there's alsorigid flat foot.
So whether you're someone whohas high arches, flat feet,
whatever it is, your foot stillneeds to be able to be strong
enough to tolerate stresses,whether that's everyday life
stresses or running stresses,endurance, sports stresses,
(33:20):
whatever it is.
Um, so I use insoles as a tool.
So if you need them for now,because your foot can't tolerate
the stresses that are goingthrough it, completely fine.
But I want you to get out of itbecause not only by getting out
of those is your foot going tobe stronger and more supportive
for you, but you're gonna bemore efficient.
You're gonna have better uhstability for when you push off,
(33:41):
creating that stable platformbecause that's where we're
making first contact and lastcontact with the ground.
We need that stable platform toset up what's going on in the
rest of our body to not onlypush off efficiently, but push
off very forceful and give us agood stride and also make us
faster.
SPEAKER_01 (33:56):
Are there things that can affect foot strength,
foot mobility, whether we choosein a specific insole or insert
or whatever that are outside ofthat?
Like, should we walk around thehouse barefoot all the time?
Or should we avoid our highheels?
Or I don't know, does it doesany of that factor into things?
SPEAKER_00 (34:18):
Yeah, no, it does.
It definitely does.
And that that we could talkabout a whole nother podcast
too, if we wanted to.
Um, but basically the basics forthat is anything that we're
gonna have a tight toe box in isgoing to affect our feet.
Having a tight toe box, thatcould be flats for for our
ladies' heels, uh, and that'sheels of any size, any shape,
also.
(34:38):
Anything that's gonna be tightin the toe box is gonna lead to
not only issues with the toescreating a pointed aspect where
we have bunionettes and bunionsforming, um, but also it's going
to restrict how much ourintrinsic or the muscles within
our foot contract, because if wecan't spread out our toes, if we
can't grip the groundappropriately, we're not gonna
be utilizing those musclesappropriately to go through our
(35:01):
normal gait cycle.
And also, if we're having shoesthat aren't supportive, so you
know, like most women's flats,they're not very supportive
whatsoever.
And if you're someone who hasflat feet or doesn't have good
control in their feet and needsthat support, you know,
obviously that's gonna put morestress inside the ankle, inside
of the knee, outside the hip,um, low back area, that can
affect it too.
(35:22):
Especially for um wearing heelstoo, that affects the low back.
It affects all the mechanicsgoing up towards the spine and
above, even up into yourshoulders and neck.
So all those types of shoes arenot necessarily the greatest,
but obviously for work orwhatever, if you need to use
them, try to walk to work ortravel to work in different
shoes before you go to work andput on those shoes.
In addition to that, justregular everyday shoes or even
(35:44):
going about your house.
Personally, for me, I walkaround barefoot all the time in
my house, partially becausethat's the world my wife has,
but also in the sense that um Ilove to utilize my toes, utilize
my my muscles in order to, youknow, keep that stability that I
do have that I've built up overthe years.
Because like I've said, when wefirst started, for the better
(36:05):
half of a decade, I haven't hadany kind of injury.
But when I first got startedrunning, I had everything.
I had, you know, chin splints, Ihad posterior tibialis syndrome,
I've had uh ankle sprains, I'vehad uh plantar fasciitis, I've
had the gamut.
But at the same time, like nowthat I've built everything up,
and you know, despite me havingflat feet, I don't deal with any
(36:26):
foot issues because you knowI've built that strength, that
stability up over time, and I'vejust kept it that way.
SPEAKER_01 (36:32):
So there is hope.
There is hope.
Yeah.
And as you're saying this, it'smaking me think of uh like from
a longevity perspective, becauseso many people as they age, they
trip and fall.
And then of course, falls becomeso much more of an issue later
on in life.
And then I'm also thinking oflike the beginner runner of
like, oh, I just, you know,should I have this big cushy
(36:54):
shoe because I trip all thetime?
And that to me says, like, no,that's your job, Rom.
SPEAKER_00 (37:00):
Yeah.
So I mean, like just a bridgepart of what we were talking
about just before, and then alsowith you know what we're gonna
be leading into.
I mean, you mentioned the the wementioned the the thick, foamy
shoe.
And we also mentioned howfeeling the ground is important
by me walking around barefoot inmy house and and being strong
and stable.
Those thick, foamy shoes don'tallow you to feel the ground
(37:21):
whatsoever.
So that that's one bad thingabout that trend, also that I
don't like.
It's it's it feels like a verycomfortable ride, but at the
same time, you can't feel what'sgoing on underneath you.
You feel like you're running ona cloud, but at the same time,
like your foot doesn't know whatto do.
So, like, if that's I wouldrecommend like if it especially
those higher end performanceshoes.
I think one of my uh one of myfriends started running the
(37:43):
Adidas Speed 4s.
I could be wrong with which oneof that that one is, but it's
it's a brand new shoe that theyhave out.
Um and he says like he feelslike it's all it's very high
stack height, very, very foamy.
Um, but he only uses that forhis speed workouts and his his
faster races.
So definitely change out yourshoes if you're gonna have that
kind of an aspect too.
(38:04):
But for like we were talkingabout for that person who's
dealing with with issues withthe tripping and whatnot, and
having that thick, foamy shoe,yeah, that's gonna be a problem.
And that also leads into thetrips and the falls, which leads
into the strength training,which is gonna be important
lifelong, and not necessarilyjust when I'm in season or when
I'm in off-season.
It's throughout the year.
(38:24):
You're doing some level ofstrength training to either
build during your off season ormaintain during your season,
especially if you're racing alot.
So at the age of 35, we startlosing muscle mass, both men,
especially women, especially aswe approach pre-menopausal,
menopausal and post-menopausalyears.
We there's a huge dip in instrength as we go through that
just because of the hormonefluctuations and changes.
(38:46):
So definitely, especially beforewe hit that kind of aspect, is
to get on some kind of strengthtraining regimen that is
relatively heavy to you.
Uh, not necessarily that we'relifting hundreds of pounds, but
we need to make sure that we'regetting some good effort in it.
That's not related to a HITclass or whatever, or boot camp
class.
We need some regular in the gymstrength training with free
(39:11):
weights, is most likely going tobe where I would put you to, so
we can work on those stabilizersso that you're not only going to
stay strong and healthy, you'renot gonna have bone stress
injuries as a female, you'regonna have a strong,
good-looking physique.
And then at the same time,you're also going to be a better
runner that doesn't trip all thetime.
SPEAKER_01 (39:27):
Love that.
Okay.
Yes, strength training.
I know we're doing we're coverwe're covering all the things
right now, Rob.
So thank you for that, whichmakes me think, okay, so we got
to be doing our strengthtraining if we're gonna be
running.
And then is there something weshould be doing before and after
every run, or should we justlike lace up those fancy shoes
and just hit right out the door?
(39:47):
Or is there like a standardshould we all be doing a dynamic
warm-up?
Should we all be stretching orfoam rolling afterwards?
Or is it case by case?
SPEAKER_00 (39:56):
Um, I would say like based off of your specific run
that you're going out for.
So your warm-up, and you shouldbe doing a warmup every time,
you don't want to, you want tomake that warm-up specific to
what you're doing.
So your warm-up for your longrun or a nice easier run is
going to be different from yourspeed workout if you're going to
be doing any kind of speedworkouts.
If we are going to be doing awarm-up, you want it to be as
(40:20):
minimal as about five minutes,especially if you have a
sedentary job to get that bloodflowing again and to wake up
your nervous system a little bitmore, help get more nutrients to
our tendons and our ligaments,because those don't necessarily
have the best blood flow.
So we want to flush outchemicals that have been sitting
there all day.
And we also want to bring newnutrients to those tissues so
that we don't have any kind ofbreakdown.
(40:41):
Um, and and from there, we wantto get back gradually go into
our run.
Same thing with cool down.
We want to stretch, we want torestore normal normal muscle
length, we want to uh flush outchemicals for that we that have
built up, whether that's youknow, speed workout, lactic
acid, any kind of waste productsthat could be sitting there, if
we just go sit on the couchafter and stare on our phone for
(41:03):
you know 10, 15, 20 minutes,whatever it is.
We want to make sure that we'reflushing all that out so we can
recover faster so that when wego out for our next run tomorrow
or two days from now or whateverit is, that we can fuel our
greatest and keep going fromthere.
SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
All right.
So we've gone over a ton,everything from ground cocktail
time, how to get started as anew runner, shoes, insoles,
warm-ups, cooldowns.
So if we could put all thistogether into like a little
nutshell, what would be your toplike two to four things that you
want to make sure people comeaway with as it relates to
(41:37):
running and mechanics?
SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
Yes.
Yeah, so as I kind of startedoff with, it's it's stay
consistent, don't getfrustrated, work on one thing at
a time.
And if you're dealing with anypain, especially if it's been
going on for longer than 48hours, talk to me.
And how do they get a hold ofyou?
Right.
Yeah.
So if you want to get a hold ofme, um, you can head over to our
(41:59):
website,www.uhendurance-unleashed.com.
Um, or you can give us a call.
919-516-9050.
SPEAKER_01 (42:09):
It's so great that we have um a wonderful running
community.
And uh you will uh not be shorton business, Rob.
SPEAKER_00 (42:16):
No, I've I've definitely noticed that since
I've been down here.
There's definitely a lot morepeople down here who want to
stay active and stay healthy forlong, long, long life like for
their the rest of their life,which is good.
SPEAKER_01 (42:27):
Yeah.
Longevity, longevity, I tell youwhat.
Yeah, especially like just beingat worlds, you know, there were
people in the 70 plus age group.
There was one person in in the80 age group.
I have to look up whether theyfinished or not, but still,
like, I mean, game changer.
Like, if I, you know, I wouldonly dream of continuing to do
(42:48):
this for a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (42:49):
I saw a post yesterday that or earlier this
week, there was um a102-year-old woman running a
36-second 100-meter dash.
That's insane.
SPEAKER_01 (43:00):
Yeah, I love like that.
Just like amps me up so much.
I and as much as people like getin their own way of like, oh, I
could never do that.
Oh, running is so hard.
I'm like, no, you just need to,like you said, you just need to
be consistent.
Start small, work on one thingat a time, and uh believe in
(43:20):
yourself.
Like uh give yourself some dangcredit.
Like, we can do hard things.
So cool.
Awesome, Rob.
This has been a wealth ofinformation, and thank you so
much for sharing your knowledge.
And I hope that people reach outto you.
So don't don't forget to go seeDr.
Rob because he's fantastic.
I've uh gotten my own fancy umrun view, and man, it is
(43:45):
eye-opening.
Your own view.
So it is eye opening, you know,in your head again, like you're
like, I am an Olympian, and thenyou just see the video, you're
like, oh, I got some work to do.
So fantastic.
All right, well, Rob, thank youso much, and uh, we appreciate
you being on the Find Your Edgepodcast.
All right, welcome back to the Find Your Edge
podcast.
Today we've got a special guest,Dr.
Rob Burkhorn.
He is a local physicaltherapist, and his company is
called Endurance Unleashed.
And we're talking all about runmechanics.
So I am excited to pick yourbrain a little bit and learn
more about you and how you canhelp the community of listeners
(01:23):
that we've got.
So welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me, Chris.
You know, I'm very excited to behere as well.
Um, you know, especially talkingabout running mechanics, and
it's something that I do everyweek in my business working with
people.
Um, because for us, you know, weare uh a company that
specifically works withendurance athletes, active
adults to make sure that theystay healthy and fit for the
rest of their life and keepdoing, you know, what they love
(01:46):
to do.
SPEAKER_01 (01:47):
Love that.
Run longevity is what I heard.
It's like the new buzzword, youknow, which is always kind of
funny to me that I'm like, thisis literally what's always been
in our heads.
Like, we're not doing this sothat you, you know, stop doing
this next year.
We're doing this so that you cankeep doing this because it's so
fun.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
And yeah, I mean, like I've been doing it now for
almost 20 plus years, and and I,you know, I want to keep doing
it for as long as I possiblycan.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
That's awesome.
Very cool.
So, how did you get into this?
And then, of course, you gottayou gotta just dip your toe into
a little bit of your likepersonal experience as an
athlete too.
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
Yeah, so I mean, like I usually when I explain it
to people, I usually dip dipinto the personal anyway.
So, like like I would say likemy running career started in
high school.
Like I was I played in a lot ofsports when I was younger, but
didn't necessarily have one Iwas specifically like good at.
So I, you know, like I delvedinto running in high school
because I want to do some kindof a sport.
So I did uh track and field uhand I stuck with sprinting
because I didn't really know howmuch of it was gonna be more of
(02:46):
or how much I could toleratewith distance running.
So I started with sprinting.
Um, I was always a very skinnykid too.
So I wasn't the best sprinter,but I liked it a lot because I
liked going fast.
Um I was a 200, 400, 400 hurdlerunner, and you know, I I went
through high school.
I went through my two years ofcollege.
Um and in between that, I wasdoing volunteer work at a
(03:08):
physical therapy clinic.
So I knew I wanted to beinvolved in healthcare.
I took an anatomy class in insenior year of high school, and
I really enjoyed that too.
So I definitely knew I wanted todo something medical, but I
didn't necessarily want to be aphysician, and this is somewhat
my bias in the sense of I don'twant to be handing out
medication all the time topeople.
So I didn't think that was bestkind of side of things to help
(03:30):
people in some cases, obviously.
Medication is obviouslyimportant for some things, but
not just that's not just what Iwanted to do.
So yeah, no, once I got into myundergrad at Sacred Heart
University for athletictraining, you know, I continued
for two more years for my sprintcareer before I had to start
taking care of other athletes intheir sports, you know, soccer,
(03:50):
football, the cross, everythingacross the board I was helping
out with while I was a student.
Um, and then from there I slowlytransitioned into endurance
running 5K's mostly.
From there, I went to PT school,got my doctorate in physical
therapy.
And while I was there, I wasrecruited by one of my
professors who knew I was a fastrunner and asked me if I wanted
to be on his triathlon team towork with him and his his uh
(04:15):
physical therapy company.
And you know, like I it's beenyou know up and up from there.
So like I've done, you know, 10Ka good number of 10K's half
marathons, a good number ofsprint and Olympic triathlons
under my belt as well.
So it's been it's been a goodroad.
And you know, I've had many ofinjuries along the way.
So I I've experienced a lot ofthe things that people come to
(04:37):
see me with.
And at the same time, like I'vealso been, I would say, healthy
for the better half of a decade,other than a couple stupid
things that I've done to thatwe're gonna potentially talk
about today with people and andtheir their training plans and
also like their runningmechanics.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
Yeah, so it's such an interesting.
I love that somebody else isinto speed too, especially in
the trash on world.
Like that that's my jam.
I always kind of joke withpeople, like I want to race and
then be home for lunch.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
Right.
Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
So cool.
So yeah, I mean, I I know thatthis population is really
interested in doing everythingbetter, uh.
So when it comes to runmechanics, I mean, who's really
uh taught how to run?
You know, and so many of so manypeople pick up endurance sports
later on in life.
(05:27):
It's like, okay, well, you know,here I go.
So what so I'd like to talkabout what uh what does a
beginner do?
And then what are some moreintermediate or advanced metrics
that we need to think about?
And then really digging intosome of the metrics because our
watches tell us everything now.
So let's start with the beginnerrunner.
(05:48):
If someone wants to get intorunning and they want to make
sure that they don't get hurt,do you have any tips or
recommendations on how theyshould start?
SPEAKER_00 (05:57):
Yeah, so I mean, I I think a lot of the things that
people kind of get hung up in,and whether this is the person
that likes to do their researchbefore they do it.
So, you know, someone who delvesinto YouTube and Instagram and
see all the quote unquoteexperts and influencers on on
online that will teach themdifferent things that they want
to do before they get started,or if it's someone who just
wants to lace up and just startdoing something, you know, it's
(06:19):
it's all good, but at the sametime, we have to keep in mind
where we're currently at.
And I think that's where a lotof beginners kind of get lost.
They want to be the bestalready, right out the gate, and
they get frustrated sometimeswith not being good or not being
able to do certain things thatthey feel like they could have
done when they were younger.
So I think that's where a lot ofpeople kind of get lost in it.
(06:41):
At the same time, the things tofocus on is just getting
consistent initially.
Setting a schedule for yourself,whether that's a couple of days
a week, I would say two to threetimes a week, three times would
probably be like get started.
And it's okay if you're out ofshape, if you're a little bit on
the overweight side, and ifyou're trying to get started
with running, to do a run-walkmethod.
(07:02):
And that's called the Gallowaymethod.
It's very effective, especiallyif you are trying to, you know,
just kind of focus on finishinga certain amount of time or get
to a certain distance, justgetting there, however, you want
to get there, however, you canget there, setting a specific
interval, whether that meansdoing three minutes on of a
little bit of a jog and thendoing a walk for a minute or
(07:24):
two, whatever that is, just tryand don't get frustrated, be
consistent with it, slowlyprogress and slowly improve.
You'll get there injury free.
SPEAKER_01 (07:33):
Okay, great tips.
So basically, like have somegrace with yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
Correct.
Definitely have some grace.
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
Because I I know so many people were like, they went
on two runs, and then they'relike, Oh my gosh, I'm so bad at
this.
I am not a runner.
And then they stop.
And I'm like, okay, well, let'slet's not own that identity of
being like, ah, running stinks.
Like, you gotta stick with it.
It's just like learning how todo anything.
SPEAKER_00 (07:56):
Even for me as a sprinter, like when I was in
high school, I didn't get gooduntil middle of junior year of
high school.
And you know, like once I evengot to college, things
completely changed.
I went from being a very skinnyguy to like a I gained 30 pounds
of muscle in my freshman yearjust because I wasn't
weightlifting.
So I didn't get much faster justbecause I added 30 pounds, but
(08:17):
at the same time, you know, itwas it was definitely a jump and
a change.
So like there's differentfactors that happen with that
too.
So if there's someone who is outthere is overweight and by doing
nutritional changes and andgetting started with running by
losing some weight, could youjust get better and faster by
doing that?
Yes, but you have to beconsistent and stick with it.
Um, so again, don't getfrustrated.
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Yeah, totally.
And and what I'm thinking of,especially from like a metabolic
testing perspective, so like aphysiological standpoint, what
is your the automatics when youstart and then progress?
Typically, when you're abeginner, you're gonna make big
leaps in just starting to tunethe heart and lungs from a
cardiovascular perspective.
And then there's the skill setof actually running, right?
(09:00):
Which is obviously yourspecialty of like actual
mechanics, running safely,running properly.
And I love the run-walk method.
So that those are our beginners.
So stick with it, y'all.
Now we get into the folks who'veprobably been running for a
while, and now they're reallystarting to think about speed,
and maybe they've got littleniggles here and there.
(09:21):
So and then we've all got thesefancy watches that tell us like
our ground contact time and likeand our cadence, and what do we
pay attention to, what do we notpay attention to, what's
valuable, what's not valuable,and what are those next steps
for the people who are reallywanting to take their running to
the next level.
unknown (09:38):
Yeah, cool.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:39):
So I mean, like as far as like the people who like
I'll even branch it a little bitbetween the people who are, you
know, like a little bit moreadvanced and the people who are
transitioning from beginners.
I would say like if you'retrying to find now that you're a
little bit more consistent, nowthat you're considering yourself
even a runner, you know, I wouldsay things to start looking at
is just we'll look at one thingat a time.
Don't focus on, no, I'm gonnafocus on my my cadence today,
(10:03):
along with my ground contacttime, along with hitting my
hitting the groundappropriately.
Focus on one thing at a time,refine it, focus on becoming a
little bit of a quote unquoteexpert at that, hit those
appropriate mechanics, and thenfrom there continue to to add in
different aspects of it.
So I would say like a couple ofthings for the more advanced
people.
(10:23):
I would say the biggest thingthat we could probably work on
initially and the easiest thingto just implement very, very
generally is your cadence.
Cadence is something that is notonly going to help, but it's
also going to help you more bemore efficient.
A lot of the times I seeathletes that are generally also
still within that good cadencerange.
(10:44):
Um, and I'll talk about that ina second.
Um, but at the same time,they'll still deal with injury,
and that we'll talk a bit a bitabout that, I'm sure, as we go
through.
So it's not all about cadence,but at the same time, it's
something that that is importantto have.
So cadence, the appropriatecadence range, I would say, is
between 160 and 180, with 180 or160 to 210, technically, but 180
(11:07):
is kind of like the the uh kindof golden number, what we want
to kind of get to.
And the simplest easy way for usto do that, especially if you
listen to music while you run,is to just play music that's
about 170, 180, whatever you'retrying to hit for that day.
If you're stuck at below 160,just gradually improve that kind
of window of beats per minute inthe songs that you like to
(11:30):
listen to.
So if you're at 140, bring playsomething that's at 150s and
just do that for your run andthen continue to gradually build
that up.
You can also just put ametronome on your phone.
If you're running on thetreadmill and just hit the
metronome on your phone and thenjust have it every time that
metronome beeps, you're justtaking that next step.
So that would be the best forthat.
If you're able to improve yourcadence, that's also gonna help
(11:52):
with that ground contact timethat we were talking about
before.
And that would be the next thingI would say we could talk about.
Because the more time that we'respending on the ground, the more
force that's being exerted onour body.
Obviously, if you've seen any ofthe research, you know, there is
a lot of multiples of bodyweight that we're experiencing
with every footfall.
And if we're, for example, doinga 5K, we're going for about
(12:14):
5,000 steps per 5K.
So it's a lot of weight thatwe're experiencing.
So we need to be able to notonly absorb that force, but we
also need to overcome it so wecan take the next step.
So that that that ground contacttime is important in the sense
that the more we're in the air,be as an athlete overall, and
the less injured we're gonnaget.
So that ground contact timenumber is gonna be anywhere
(12:36):
between 0.21 to 0.31 of uhhundredths of a second.
So basically, if we're withinthat range, it's gonna be very
beneficial in avoiding injury.
Um because the more time we'reon the ground, like I was saying
before, the the more stresswe're putting on our body, the
more risk we're gonna have forinjury, the most, the more time
(12:56):
we're also gonna need to recoverjust because that that exertion
being put on our body.
SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
So I heard you say cadence and ground contact time.
And what's coming up for me istwo things that I'm curious
about is this all the time.
SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
As close to perfect as possible, right?
Yeah.
So I mean, obviously it's notgonna be every step, but you
want to try and be as close toit as you possibly can uh
throughout.
I mean, as you get moreefficient, as you become better,
a better runner, as you becomemore in tune with how your
body's feeling while you'rerunning, and that's another
thing we can talk about as wellif you want, just how how you're
how you should be going aboutfeeling your body as you're
(13:32):
running.
So, like it as you become moreattuned to what you should be
feeling, knowing what 160 beatsfeels like, or one 180 steps per
minute feels like, and also howlong you feel like your foot's
on the ground for for a givenperiod of time.
You should obviously once youget within that range, you know
how it should feel.
And therefore, if you'renoticing it, it's either, oh,
(13:53):
something's coming up, or I'mfatigued for today.
And maybe I need to cut my runshort today so I don't cut start
feeling like aches and pains, orif I'm starting to feel aches
and pains, why is it happening?
Do I feel like I'm within therange that I used to be?
Can I should I check my watch?
Should I check Strava?
Should I check Garmin?
Whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (14:09):
And then what about like, should do these numbers
change if you're descending orclimbing a hill?
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Yeah, so obviously that's gonna definitely change.
And also depends on yourmechanics while you're going up
and downhill.
Because those are alsodifferent, different aspects
too.
I would say the better way to goabout going uphill is to make
more shorter, choppier steps,just to help not only with,
especially if you're not as muchof somebody who can VO2 max wise
(14:37):
sustain your pace as you'regoing overhill.
If you're someone who needs toslow down while you're going
over a hill, I would sayshortening up your stride, doing
more shorter, choppier steps.
So increasing that cadence isgonna be more efficient to not
only not blow up the thecardiovascular aspects, but also
to not overload your legs sothat you're able to just get
over the hill and and work yourway rather than trying to muscle
(15:00):
it through, and then at the topof the hill you need to stop
because you're all blown up.
SPEAKER_01 (15:03):
I hear that a lot, like you know, I'm gonna die at
the top of the hill.
So, what I hear you saying isthere's technique.
There's technique for climbingand perhaps technique for
descending too.
SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Yes, and there's there's tech definitely
technique for going downhilltoo, because a lot of the people
what they tend to do, and thisis where most people I would
find when they're doing hilltraining that they tend to get
the most injury, just becausedescending, eccentric control is
what we would call it, is theharder muscle contraction.
It's gonna be the hardest onyour body, especially if you're
someone who runs downhill andlikes to break themselves rather
(15:37):
than, you know, allow gravity tosomewhat take you down the hill.
So, again, if you're someone whocan't necessarily muscularly
control yourself down the hill,I would say again, shorter,
choppier steps, um, just soyou're not like breaking your
foot into the ground and slowingyourself down intentionally, but
taking those shorter steps.
So, again, we're not putting somuch stress into our body.
(15:58):
And also we're getting down thehill more gradually rather than
just allowing our body tofreewheel it and we start
accelerating, accelerating,accelerating until we hit the
bottom of the hill, like Isometimes do, especially when
I'm racing.
But you know, like I've been asprinter, so I'm able to
tolerate the higher leg turnturnover.
So, like that's that comes withskill and experience as well.
So that's that's definitely adifferent, different kind of
(16:20):
technique.
SPEAKER_01 (16:21):
So is sound something that we should be
tuning into at all when we'rerunning, like how heavily we
slap the ground or touch theground, like should we aim to be
like a quiet runner or like howdoes that play into it?
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
Right.
So obviously we don't want to bestomping into the ground.
And at times I'm going to sayonce we're at faster speeds,
well, we we will tend to be alittle bit louder into the
ground.
And I would say we want to tryand be as quiet as possible in
the sense that we'retransitioning from footfall to
footfall because the the lessimpactful we're putting direct
force into the ground, you know,obviously we're taking some of
(16:58):
that stress that's going backinto our body away.
Because really what we should befocusing on is almost slapping
the ground and in the sense oflike if you're if you ever spin
like a tire, so like you know,for example, with you, Chris,
like you flip your bike over andyou spin the wheel.
The only way to make it fasteris to just smack the the side of
the wheel at a, if we're gonnaget scientific here, a
(17:19):
tangential angle uh that's gonnabe directly parallel to it.
As long as you keep doing that,it's going to make that wheel go
faster and faster.
So the closer we can get todoing that, the better off we're
gonna be and the less injurywe're gonna have.
So if you're just constantlymashing into the ground with
your foot coming straight down,we're going to have greater
force in our body and morestress, leading to potential
(17:39):
injury in that way.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
So what so let's get into some of the injury stuff
because you know, intheoretically, we're all running
generally softly and have thisbeautiful cadence and ground
contact time.
Like when do some of thesethings go awry?
Like, is it usually from theground up?
Is it the top down?
Like, is it just no rhyme orreason?
We're all just wonderfullyunique and uh and that's where
(18:03):
you come in, or it's so talk usthrough some of those common
injuries.
SPEAKER_00 (18:07):
Yeah, so the the I will I'll talk about some of the
injuries first uh in relation tothe mechanics, and then we'll
also talk a bit about um injuryin the sense of the actual
mechanical aspect or the runningform itself, too.
Um I would say I would most ofthe injuries that happen or
pop-up, and and and this isspeaking not only to the
(18:28):
beginners, but also to thepeople who are a little bit more
advanced or trying to becomemore efficient or trying to get
faster and then just not goingthe right way about it, is they
become a little bit more ofthis.
Is more especially for thebeginners.
They just try to run fast allthe time.
They don't necessarily adjusttheir pacing.
And this is where we starttalking about zone training a
(18:50):
bit, where we focus on a littlebit more of the 80-20 rule,
where a lot of our mileage is onthe slower side, and we have a
small percentage that's on ahigher end, whether that's
interval runs or or VO2 max runsor or uh you know any of those
kind of kind of aspects of ourrunning schedule.
Um and then also it's justthey're doing too much too fast,
(19:12):
too soon.
They don't progress as well, uh,or they don't they progress too
much as far as their distancethat they're trying to run,
whether they're someone who's a5K that wants to start doing a
half marathon and they want todo that training in in less than
three months.
You know, that's a little bit ofa tight schedule for somebody
who's brand new to half marathontraining.
So if we're if you have thatkind of situation, that's where
I do see a lot of it.
(19:33):
It's just too much on the bodyall at one time.
Um, that that leads to generalissues.
As far as like the mechanicsaspect and running form, I would
say it's specifically the way Ilike to look at people when I
analyze their form is I do liketo start from the bottom up, but
at the same time, I still focusfrom the central down too, and
(19:53):
also what's going on higher upin the neck, the head, the neck,
and the shoulders.
Because it all feeds into what'sgoing on overall and the picture
that you have for your body,because all that's going to
affect the forces you impartinto the ground and also the the
forces that are being impartedon you.
So I would say the biggest thingthat most people will have that
are issues are too muchpronation or not being able to
(20:16):
control their foot and also notbeing able to control their hip,
which leads to most what mostrunners deal with is running is
knee injuries.
Um it's never the knee itselfthat's the problem, it's always
the foot and or the hip.
Um so I always tar I usuallytarget those, and those are the
ones I really specifically focusmost of my time on.
But at the same time, if you'resomeone who doesn't have a
(20:39):
strong pore, so that could beyour hips and or your your
abdomen.
If you don't have good controlthere either, that can also
affect what's going on higher updown below, and can also lead to
a bunch of different injuries.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Yeah, what's coming up for me is um we see a lot of
like, especially women, when wewatch them from the back, their
hips, like one hip, will drop.
So when you see something likethat, for example, what could be
potential injuries and then whatcould be potential things to
help correct that?
Is it mobility, is it strength,is it a little bit of both?
SPEAKER_00 (21:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
Or awareness techniques.
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Right.
Yeah, that's very that's a verygood question.
I mean, I I don't know how muchyou guys also look at that from
also a front uh side angle, too,because sometimes you can also
notice that their pelvis is alsotilted forward.
Um, or like when they go to pushoff instead of pushing off from
their from their hip, they startpushing off from their spine
instead.
So that can lead to to higher upinjuries too.
Um, but yeah, now that'ssomething I do see very common,
(21:36):
especially with women.
Partially that's because of theway that you know women are
developed.
Uh wider hips and what we callthe cue angle.
So basically the angulation fromwhere the hip kind of is in line
with the knee, the larger thatangle is, the more strong you
need to be in order tocounteract that force.
So basically it's it's mostlygoing to be strength, stability,
(21:59):
and control.
Generally, if and and this iswhere some athletes that I see
that get frustrated withtraditional physical therapy,
unlike what we do here, uh, whatthey get frustrated with
traditional therapy is that theytell them that they're weak.
You know, they're very strongwomen, they do their strength
training, they do what they'resupposed to do, they do their
mobility work, uh, but they'restill dealing with either hip,
(22:22):
low back, hand or knee pain, andthey can't necessarily figure
out what the problem is.
And in general, it's becausethey're not educated necessarily
on what the real issue is, andit's really the control of that
strength rather than the actualstrength itself.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
So this is not like I squat, amazing, wait, and I
deadlift.
It's so awesome.
And I can look at me holding myplank, and yet I'm still having
these issues.
It's uh almost sounds like alike a almost like a kinesthetic
sort of awareness or connectionthat they're needing to control.
(22:57):
So yeah, tell me a little bitmore about how your approach is
unique in that respect.
SPEAKER_00 (23:02):
Yeah, it's one thing that's different from you know
the traditional physicaltherapists versus what we do is
you know, we focus number one onyou know, runners, endurance
athletes, you know, that'sthat's one thing.
We have the knowledge, we havethe background, what you're
experiencing, unlike what mostphysical therapists do, and they
just focus on a general aspectof things.
I would say also in the sensethat, you know, when we
specifically look at yourrunning form, your running
(23:25):
mechanics, what you dospecifically outside of that to
make you a better runner.
So, like we were talking aboutthe strengthening, you know, you
squat, you deadlift, you you doplanks.
It's can you tolerate that in asingle leg format?
If you don't, if you're someonewho doesn't single leg strength
train, if you're someone whodoesn't work on your balance and
stability, your control, thenobviously that's something that
(23:46):
I'm first going to.
If you're someone who does dothat, are you doing it correctly
or are you making, you know,compensations where you don't
necessarily feel that you are,but I can see it based off of
what I've been able to study andwhatnot.
So some people, you know, cancompensate very, very well by
things that shouldn't be doingthat.
Um, and that's why why they maybe dealing with some of the
(24:06):
pain.
So for example, someone withdealing with back pain, but has
a contrary, so basically wewould call a contralateral
opposite side hip.
So if my if my left back bothersme all the time, but I notice a
hip drop or a hip side shift onthe right side, it's because
their low back on their leftside is compensating and keeping
trying to keep their hip levelon the right side, but it can't.
(24:29):
That's not what it's supposed todo.
So it's it's a lot of thingsthat go into it, but at the same
time, it's very specific tothose types of people.
So that's what I try to reallybreak down for people first so
we can figure out root causesand kind of build you back up to
not only make your squatdeadlifts plank better, but also
give you tools to work on thesmaller fine-tuning muscles that
(24:51):
help with that control andstability on top of it.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
That's cool.
And um, somebody who's gonethrough your videoing process,
it's always so like in yourhead, you're like, but I
thought, and you're like, butnow we have evidence, and then
you know, slowing it down, whatyou think in your head may be
happening may not actually behappening.
So this, so uh you know, havinggoing through the process like
(25:16):
you do of videotaping people andum pointing things out is
obviously really important.
And then and then what are kindof like next steps that people
do with that?
It's like, okay, well, my we seemy hip is dropping uh now what?
Or we see my oh, you know, I'mpronating too deeply or whatever
(25:36):
the case may be.
Then kind of what's what's nextsteps for people?
Because you know, if you look ata it's kind of like, well, what
should it look like?
And at least in my head, I'mlike, I should look like an
Olympian, shouldn't I?
You don't know until youactually see it and then have
somebody like you evaluate it.
And then what do you do withthat?
SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
So I mean the I I guess another unique thing about
what we do or what I dospecifically in my practice is
you know, I take an athlete likeyou, like you just competed in
the X Dura World Championships,right?
So like you're you're ahigh-level performer.
So it's like, you know, you'redoing great with what you have
right now.
And this is this goes back toalso like you were mentioning,
the Olympians, the pros that areout there.
There's a lot of pros out therethat have quote unquote faulty
(26:18):
mechanics.
It's just like, is it workingfor them?
And why is it working for them?
So we I analyze that a littlebit.
And then is it causing you pain?
And like we focus on on thataspect.
So, like, if it's not causingyou pain, it's allowing you to
be be great at what you do, I'mnot gonna change much of it.
But at the same time, if there'sthings that are causing you
(26:39):
pain, causing you issues, am Igonna change it?
Yes.
But I would also focus on thebuilding blocks too.
So, like, if you're someone whohas that hip drop that we were
talking about, um, and theycan't control their hip very
well, I'm gonna focus, I'm gonnabring you back down to a
specific strength training levelthat's gonna be very minute and
(26:59):
specific to certain muscles thatare gonna help with that
stability and then build you upfrom there.
And at the same time, we'llbring you back in a couple of
weeks later, see if that hipdrop's still happening.
If it is, then we're gonna startworking on a little bit more
fine-tuning of why is that stillhappening?
Is it more uh balance ofcontrol?
Is it your body awareness?
So we focus a little bit more onthat.
(27:20):
And then we we also try to,while you're running, focus on
different aspects of what areyou feeling as we're doing this?
Do you feel like it's this?
Can you try and exert this way?
So, for example, like if we'retalking about the hip drop, if
we can focus on as we're kind ofpushing off, that we're
utilizing the two um extend ourhip a little bit differently as
(27:43):
we're as we're pushing off withthat foot rather than just going
about and running.
SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
You mean I shouldn't start there, right?
Just running up a mountain andhoping that everything goes
well.
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
Correct.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:57):
That sounds like an Achilles disaster, is what I'm
thinking about, which uh againgoes into like the skill and
mechanic of being able toappropriately run uphill.
But what about shoes?
Is that something that you lookat?
Or is that you know, I don'tshoot, I don't even know what
what the trend is these days.
We went from zero drop to a lotof drop to like you know, a
(28:19):
minimalist to maximalist, liketo foam, no foam.
You know, somebody asked me theother day, like, do you wear
carbon plated shoes?
SPEAKER_00 (28:25):
I'm like, carbon plates, yep, fiber plates, yeah.
So yeah, no, I'm I'm seeing allof it.
Don't worry.
Um, yeah, so I mean that'sthat's a very good question.
I mean, I I I definitely see thegamut too.
I mean, I even had a few clientsrecently who every week would
bring me in a new pair of shoes,like, is this good for me?
Is this good for me?
So, like, it's it's definitelysomething that's that that
people do focus on, and it'sokay to focus on it for a bit,
(28:48):
but once you find somethingthat's a good general fit, then
that's then it's then it's good.
You know, the first things Iusually focus is does your foot
fit the shoe?
Because like if your footdoesn't fit in the shoe, then
then obviously it's not going tobe good for you.
Um, I don't focus on brand.
Brand is the last thing,absolute last thing I focus on.
First and foremost, it's yourfoot, and also like how your
body reacts to just regularground without any shoes on.
(29:12):
So if you're someone whooverpronates already, someone
who over pronates while they'reon while they're running, um,
then we're looking more towardsneutral/slash stability shoes.
For someone who has high archesand has trouble with stress
injuries, like you know, shinsplints, stress fractures,
stress reactions, those kind ofthings, I'm thinking more
cushion for you.
But at the same time, um, yeah,obviously there's things, terms
(29:33):
out there called stack height,how much foam is in there, heel
drop ratio, how much diffdifference between the height of
the heel and the height of thetoe.
Those are all things thatespecially beginner runners get
lost in all the time.
And that's why if you are gonnago to um a store like Fleet Feet
or seek out your specializedrunning physical therapist like
(29:54):
myself, we can help you teaseout that a little bit better,
especially if you're a beginnerrunner, like what shoe is gonna
be best for you.
But basically, you want yourentire foot to fit within that
sole of the shoe.
You don't want to have like ifyou stand on your shoe and you
notice that either your pinkytoe or your big toe is spilling
out over the side of the shoe,that shoe is not wide enough for
(30:15):
you.
Additionally, you should be ableto take your thumb and put it
thumb's width over the front ofthe shoe.
And if you can't touch your toe,then you're good as far as like
fit-wise.
Um, you want it to necessarilystay on your foot, you don't
want it to be sliding off yourheel.
If you're looking for some for ageneralized shoe that's not
minimalist, you don't want to beable to push down the back of
(30:36):
the heel.
You don't want to be able towring it out like a sponge, you
don't want to be able to fold itin half.
Um, so all those are all goodbasic things for you to focus on
so that you don't have any kindof injuries pop up in that
sense.
But I will say that if you doget a shoe that has a lot of
foam, I've seen plenty ofrunners, especially the whole
time I was running New York CityMarathon when the outflies were
(30:58):
super huge at the time.
There are people that should notbe wearing those shoes that had
the inside of their ankles onthe ground because there was too
much foam in there for them totolerate.
And this was like not even liketowards the end of the marathon.
This was at the beginning of themarathon.
So I don't know how they did,but at the same time, there were
nightmares that I was seeing thewhole time.
(31:19):
Now that that doesn't includethe nightmare of the heat and
the vomiting and the passing outthat I've saw saw during that
race, too.
Don't discourage people fromrunning.
Like your race this past past uhcouple weeks, like that was not
a great race for me either.
SPEAKER_01 (31:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's there there are uniquesituations certainly in racing
and and definitely in runningand definitely in marathon.
Oh my goodness.
So yeah, it sounds like we canwe can easily be caught up in
the marketing and the trends andwhen it may not also always be
something that's beneficialspecifically to our own personal
(31:58):
running.
SPEAKER_00 (31:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
What about insoles?
Is that you know, so like wetalked about shoes and we found
a good shoe, but like areinsoles something that we should
all just get?
Or is that case by case?
Is does it differ like rightfoot to left foot, or how do you
approach that topic?
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
Yeah, so I mean, uh yeah, I'm glad you brought that
up because that is something Ido get asked about a lot.
And this is also the and I'mblanking on the name of the
company, but they it's not acarbon plate, but it's like a
fiber plate.
I think it's called vortex.
I could be completely wrong.
Um, but they they help with theextra sprain too.
So I've I've they they help.
Um, and and all insoles andwe're if we're talking about
orthotics as well, they help.
(32:36):
But when I approach somebodywith orthotics or someone who's
thinking about gettingorthotics, or even the aspect of
podiatrists who love torecommend orthotics just because
it does cost a lot and they doget a lot of money for it, is
it's a tool.
It's not something that you'reso like I have flat feet, I'm
more of a supple flat foot, buteven when my foot's in the air
and basically I'll back up alittle bit.
(32:58):
Sumple flat foot is basicallyum, you have an arch when your
foot's not on the ground, andyour arch disappears when your
foot's on the ground.
Um, you know, then there's alsorigid flat foot.
So whether you're someone whohas high arches, flat feet,
whatever it is, your foot stillneeds to be able to be strong
enough to tolerate stresses,whether that's everyday life
stresses or running stresses,endurance, sports stresses,
(33:20):
whatever it is.
Um, so I use insoles as a tool.
So if you need them for now,because your foot can't tolerate
the stresses that are goingthrough it, completely fine.
But I want you to get out of itbecause not only by getting out
of those is your foot going tobe stronger and more supportive
for you, but you're gonna bemore efficient.
You're gonna have better uhstability for when you push off,
(33:41):
creating that stable platformbecause that's where we're
making first contact and lastcontact with the ground.
We need that stable platform toset up what's going on in the
rest of our body to not onlypush off efficiently, but push
off very forceful and give us agood stride and also make us
faster.
SPEAKER_01 (33:56):
Are there things that can affect foot strength,
foot mobility, whether we choosein a specific insole or insert
or whatever that are outside ofthat?
Like, should we walk around thehouse barefoot all the time?
Or should we avoid our highheels?
Or I don't know, does it doesany of that factor into things?
SPEAKER_00 (34:18):
Yeah, no, it does.
It definitely does.
And that that we could talkabout a whole nother podcast
too, if we wanted to.
Um, but basically the basics forthat is anything that we're
gonna have a tight toe box in isgoing to affect our feet.
Having a tight toe box, thatcould be flats for for our
ladies' heels, uh, and that'sheels of any size, any shape,
also.
(34:38):
Anything that's gonna be tightin the toe box is gonna lead to
not only issues with the toescreating a pointed aspect where
we have bunionettes and bunionsforming, um, but also it's going
to restrict how much ourintrinsic or the muscles within
our foot contract, because if wecan't spread out our toes, if we
can't grip the groundappropriately, we're not gonna
be utilizing those musclesappropriately to go through our
(35:01):
normal gait cycle.
And also, if we're having shoesthat aren't supportive, so you
know, like most women's flats,they're not very supportive
whatsoever.
And if you're someone who hasflat feet or doesn't have good
control in their feet and needsthat support, you know,
obviously that's gonna put morestress inside the ankle, inside
of the knee, outside the hip,um, low back area, that can
affect it too.
(35:22):
Especially for um wearing heelstoo, that affects the low back.
It affects all the mechanicsgoing up towards the spine and
above, even up into yourshoulders and neck.
So all those types of shoes arenot necessarily the greatest,
but obviously for work orwhatever, if you need to use
them, try to walk to work ortravel to work in different
shoes before you go to work andput on those shoes.
In addition to that, justregular everyday shoes or even
(35:44):
going about your house.
Personally, for me, I walkaround barefoot all the time in
my house, partially becausethat's the world my wife has,
but also in the sense that um Ilove to utilize my toes, utilize
my my muscles in order to, youknow, keep that stability that I
do have that I've built up overthe years.
Because like I've said, when wefirst started, for the better
(36:05):
half of a decade, I haven't hadany kind of injury.
But when I first got startedrunning, I had everything.
I had, you know, chin splints, Ihad posterior tibialis syndrome,
I've had uh ankle sprains, I'vehad uh plantar fasciitis, I've
had the gamut.
But at the same time, like nowthat I've built everything up,
and you know, despite me havingflat feet, I don't deal with any
(36:26):
foot issues because you knowI've built that strength, that
stability up over time, and I'vejust kept it that way.
SPEAKER_01 (36:32):
So there is hope.
There is hope.
Yeah.
And as you're saying this, it'smaking me think of uh like from
a longevity perspective, becauseso many people as they age, they
trip and fall.
And then of course, falls becomeso much more of an issue later
on in life.
And then I'm also thinking oflike the beginner runner of
like, oh, I just, you know,should I have this big cushy
(36:54):
shoe because I trip all thetime?
And that to me says, like, no,that's your job, Rom.
SPEAKER_00 (37:00):
Yeah.
So I mean, like just a bridgepart of what we were talking
about just before, and then alsowith you know what we're gonna
be leading into.
I mean, you mentioned the the wementioned the the thick, foamy
shoe.
And we also mentioned howfeeling the ground is important
by me walking around barefoot inmy house and and being strong
and stable.
Those thick, foamy shoes don'tallow you to feel the ground
(37:21):
whatsoever.
So that that's one bad thingabout that trend, also that I
don't like.
It's it's it feels like a verycomfortable ride, but at the
same time, you can't feel what'sgoing on underneath you.
You feel like you're running ona cloud, but at the same time,
like your foot doesn't know whatto do.
So, like, if that's I wouldrecommend like if it especially
those higher end performanceshoes.
I think one of my uh one of myfriends started running the
(37:43):
Adidas Speed 4s.
I could be wrong with which oneof that that one is, but it's
it's a brand new shoe that theyhave out.
Um and he says like he feelslike it's all it's very high
stack height, very, very foamy.
Um, but he only uses that forhis speed workouts and his his
faster races.
So definitely change out yourshoes if you're gonna have that
kind of an aspect too.
(38:04):
But for like we were talkingabout for that person who's
dealing with with issues withthe tripping and whatnot, and
having that thick, foamy shoe,yeah, that's gonna be a problem.
And that also leads into thetrips and the falls, which leads
into the strength training,which is gonna be important
lifelong, and not necessarilyjust when I'm in season or when
I'm in off-season.
It's throughout the year.
(38:24):
You're doing some level ofstrength training to either
build during your off season ormaintain during your season,
especially if you're racing alot.
So at the age of 35, we startlosing muscle mass, both men,
especially women, especially aswe approach pre-menopausal,
menopausal and post-menopausalyears.
We there's a huge dip in instrength as we go through that
just because of the hormonefluctuations and changes.
(38:46):
So definitely, especially beforewe hit that kind of aspect, is
to get on some kind of strengthtraining regimen that is
relatively heavy to you.
Uh, not necessarily that we'relifting hundreds of pounds, but
we need to make sure that we'regetting some good effort in it.
That's not related to a HITclass or whatever, or boot camp
class.
We need some regular in the gymstrength training with free
(39:11):
weights, is most likely going tobe where I would put you to, so
we can work on those stabilizersso that you're not only going to
stay strong and healthy, you'renot gonna have bone stress
injuries as a female, you'regonna have a strong,
good-looking physique.
And then at the same time,you're also going to be a better
runner that doesn't trip all thetime.
SPEAKER_01 (39:27):
Love that.
Okay.
Yes, strength training.
I know we're doing we're coverwe're covering all the things
right now, Rob.
So thank you for that, whichmakes me think, okay, so we got
to be doing our strengthtraining if we're gonna be
running.
And then is there something weshould be doing before and after
every run, or should we justlike lace up those fancy shoes
and just hit right out the door?
(39:47):
Or is there like a standardshould we all be doing a dynamic
warm-up?
Should we all be stretching orfoam rolling afterwards?
Or is it case by case?
SPEAKER_00 (39:56):
Um, I would say like based off of your specific run
that you're going out for.
So your warm-up, and you shouldbe doing a warmup every time,
you don't want to, you want tomake that warm-up specific to
what you're doing.
So your warm-up for your longrun or a nice easier run is
going to be different from yourspeed workout if you're going to
be doing any kind of speedworkouts.
If we are going to be doing awarm-up, you want it to be as
(40:20):
minimal as about five minutes,especially if you have a
sedentary job to get that bloodflowing again and to wake up
your nervous system a little bitmore, help get more nutrients to
our tendons and our ligaments,because those don't necessarily
have the best blood flow.
So we want to flush outchemicals that have been sitting
there all day.
And we also want to bring newnutrients to those tissues so
that we don't have any kind ofbreakdown.
(40:41):
Um, and and from there, we wantto get back gradually go into
our run.
Same thing with cool down.
We want to stretch, we want torestore normal normal muscle
length, we want to uh flush outchemicals for that we that have
built up, whether that's youknow, speed workout, lactic
acid, any kind of waste productsthat could be sitting there, if
we just go sit on the couchafter and stare on our phone for
(41:03):
you know 10, 15, 20 minutes,whatever it is.
We want to make sure that we'reflushing all that out so we can
recover faster so that when wego out for our next run tomorrow
or two days from now or whateverit is, that we can fuel our
greatest and keep going fromthere.
SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
All right.
So we've gone over a ton,everything from ground cocktail
time, how to get started as anew runner, shoes, insoles,
warm-ups, cooldowns.
So if we could put all thistogether into like a little
nutshell, what would be your toplike two to four things that you
want to make sure people comeaway with as it relates to
(41:37):
running and mechanics?
SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
Yes.
Yeah, so as I kind of startedoff with, it's it's stay
consistent, don't getfrustrated, work on one thing at
a time.
And if you're dealing with anypain, especially if it's been
going on for longer than 48hours, talk to me.
And how do they get a hold ofyou?
Right.
Yeah.
So if you want to get a hold ofme, um, you can head over to our
(41:59):
website,www.uhendurance-unleashed.com.
Um, or you can give us a call.
919-516-9050.
SPEAKER_01 (42:09):
It's so great that we have um a wonderful running
community.
And uh you will uh not be shorton business, Rob.
SPEAKER_00 (42:16):
No, I've I've definitely noticed that since
I've been down here.
There's definitely a lot morepeople down here who want to
stay active and stay healthy forlong, long, long life like for
their the rest of their life,which is good.
SPEAKER_01 (42:27):
Yeah.
Longevity, longevity, I tell youwhat.
Yeah, especially like just beingat worlds, you know, there were
people in the 70 plus age group.
There was one person in in the80 age group.
I have to look up whether theyfinished or not, but still,
like, I mean, game changer.
Like, if I, you know, I wouldonly dream of continuing to do
(42:48):
this for a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (42:49):
I saw a post yesterday that or earlier this
week, there was um a102-year-old woman running a
36-second 100-meter dash.
That's insane.
SPEAKER_01 (43:00):
Yeah, I love like that.
Just like amps me up so much.
I and as much as people like getin their own way of like, oh, I
could never do that.
Oh, running is so hard.
I'm like, no, you just need to,like you said, you just need to
be consistent.
Start small, work on one thingat a time, and uh believe in
(43:20):
yourself.
Like uh give yourself some dangcredit.
Like, we can do hard things.
So cool.
Awesome, Rob.
This has been a wealth ofinformation, and thank you so
much for sharing your knowledge.
And I hope that people reach outto you.
So don't don't forget to go seeDr.
Rob because he's fantastic.
I've uh gotten my own fancy umrun view, and man, it is
(43:45):
eye-opening.
Your own view.
So it is eye opening, you know,in your head again, like you're
like, I am an Olympian, and thenyou just see the video, you're
like, oh, I got some work to do.
So fantastic.
All right, well, Rob, thank youso much, and uh, we appreciate
you being on the Find Your Edgepodcast.
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