October 2, 2023 • 45 mins
In this engaging episode of “At Work With Gen XYZ,” we dive into a thought-provoking discussion revolving around two career paths - being a generalist or a specialist. Get ready for a cross-generational conversation, where our distinguished panelists – Pete, Peter, and Ashley – represent the voices of Generations X, Y, and Z, respectively, each presenting their unique perspectives on career specialization and generalization.
Episode Highlights:
- Deep Dive with Pete: Understand the nuances of career specialization through Pete’s journey, learning the value of becoming an expert in a chosen field.
- Versatility with Peter: Discover the generalist path with Peter, exploring how a broad skill set can open doors to varied opportunities and provide a safety net in uncertain times.
- Innovation with Ashley: Witness the fusion of both worlds through Ashley’s eyes, understanding how Generation Z is navigating and redefining career trajectories with a blend of specialization and generalization.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ashley (Gen Z) (00:00):
After another session with technical
difficulties.
Our Gen X is slowly trying tofigure it out, but let's.
Peter (Gen Y) (00:10):
He's merging into the 21st century here from his
dialogue action Wow this is.
Pete (Gen X) (00:16):
Can you guys hear me like you should, Because
otherwise I'm pretty defenselessin this scenario.
Peter (Gen Y) (00:22):
I mean it depends on how much of a lag there is.
I don't think there is.
Pete (Gen X) (00:26):
All right.
Well, we won't call out ourlocal internet provider on this,
but here we are, we're good, weare live, and apparently my
voice is matching my image forthe moment, so that's a good
thing.
So, peter, you want to dointroductions, since you were
gone last week?
Peter (Gen Y) (00:42):
Yeah, perfect.
So welcome to Gen XYZ.
It's obviously this is a showabout me, the millennial.
I'm Gen Y and yeah, so there'sthe introduction there.
Yeah, so I am the millennial ofthe group.
Ashley (Gen Z) (00:59):
I am Gen Z, I'm Ashley.
Pete (Gen X) (01:04):
I'm Pete, I'm Gen X, and they are thinking that
I'm the old guy always, but inparticular today, because my
internet connection is notworking and so by default, they
think it's a problem I'm havingwith technology, which it most
certainly is not.
Peter (Gen Y) (01:20):
He's just doing a retro JPEG thing Like he's like
hey, I'm trying to bring backthe 90s and GeoCities, cities,
websites and whatnot.
Ashley (Gen Z) (01:28):
He's on a really old Mac computer that has like
some blocks in the back.
Peter (Gen Y) (01:32):
The clear back computer is the iMacs, no.
Pete (Gen X) (01:36):
You know I saw posts this morning that that
came out 25 years ago today, ornot today, but 25 years ago now,
because Google just turned 25.
And that's when that Mac withthe colored background came out.
Peter (Gen Y) (01:47):
That's crazy.
Those were like all the rage inthe early 2000s, like that was
the cool thing cool kids had.
Pete (Gen X) (01:55):
Cool kids, so I'll switch to my phone if this
isn't good.
If you're joining us, thank you.
Thanks for bearing with ustoday.
Technology is always fun,especially when it's live, but
we have a few topics we want totalk about today, but, as always
, we will stop.
We will address questions orcomments.
If you guys have anything you'dlike us to discuss, debate,
(02:16):
fight about that, can we likedoing all of that?
But the point of our show eachweek is to talk about
generational differences.
We try to keep it relevant tothe workplace.
Sometimes we get a little offtrack, so can I just get off
track to start behind?
Why not Go ahead?
So I was on a podcast.
I was a guest on a podcastearlier this week and we were
(02:39):
talking about interviews and howto follow up with them and
specifically, we talked abouthandwritten notes, something
that you guys know I'm a bigbeliever in.
I think candidates should takeadvantage of.
Very few do it stands out.
It is a great differentiator ina very crowded space.
(03:00):
Right now, the job market issuper crowded for professional
jobs and if you're watching onLinkedIn right now, you know
that all too well.
Jobs regularly get more than1,000 applicants within a day of
being posted.
It's crazy.
I've never seen anything likeit, and so a lot of candidates
want to know how do I stand out?
What can I do?
That's different than the packand handwritten note is special,
(03:23):
so I was thinking about this inanticipation of our show.
You guys sort of missed thewindow on that.
Right Like when I graduatedfrom college my now wife was
still in college we would writeletters to each other, we'd
write notes, send cards.
You guys never do that.
(03:43):
Right Like it's not.
Have you ever sent anyone acard in the mail, ashley?
Ashley (Gen Z) (03:49):
Maybe like postcard.
I think that's it.
Peter (Gen Y) (03:55):
It's like for the novel to happen.
Ashley (Gen Z) (03:57):
Yeah, just, I think I sent something to my
cousin once, and that was it,and then we just Do you know
what stamps are?
Pete (Gen X) (04:06):
Yes, but really like handwritten notes, peter,
what about you?
Did you ever send letters?
Peter (Gen Y) (04:15):
Not because I had to.
I mean, I have sent, I havesent letters, I have done, but
it's been more for like thenovelty of it than like
necessity of it.
Like I've typed a letter on atypewriter and mailed it, but it
was more to like do it becauseit was like oh look, this crazy
ancient technology I'm likeusing, rather than like
(04:35):
necessity of like I'm justsending you a letter.
Ashley (Gen Z) (04:38):
I was just feeling quirky one day and I was
like, let me do this littlecute thing and send this
postcard to my cousin.
Post office line was not long.
There was a bunch of old peoplein line and I was the only
young person in there.
Pete (Gen X) (04:51):
Right, so so here's OK.
So you said it's a noveltything.
I occasionally will get ahandwritten note, a card.
It doesn't have to be fancy,and what's different about it
than the hundreds and hundredsof emails that I may get in a
given day, most which are spam.
It's meaningful, I know therewas effort involved.
(05:15):
It's different and, for reasonsI can't explain, I have a
difficult time throwing out acard that someone sends me.
I will keep it around and,peter, you probably remember
seeing cards on my desk that Ireceived from salespeople, or
can it to?
Peter (Gen Y) (05:32):
I would get them to it.
Yeah, and you're like I'm likethis is some random guy.
Like I don't even know who thisperson is, why can't I throw
this card?
Because I feel bad, likesomehow he's going to have his
feelings hurt that I threw outhis card.
Pete (Gen X) (05:43):
Yeah, and I think that's why people keep them.
I mean, my wife was lookingthrough old, old cards the other
day, and that's one of thereasons.
This was on my mind too, and Ithought my kids will never do
that.
You guys have never done that.
So what do you guys think abouthandwritten notes?
I mean, do you think it has thesame impact, and do you think
it's as good of an idea forcandidates to as I do?
(06:03):
I'm a huge fan of it.
I think it should be, and noone does it.
I say it all the time, say itnow.
Whoever watches this, you'llhear it, and no one's going to
do it.
Peter (Gen Y) (06:12):
I think it's just difficult to let's particularly
people working remote, you know, you don't know, you don't wear
a sender.
If you can, if you can 100%definitively know where this
manager or whoever works and youknow that if I write him a note
and I mail it to this it'sgoing to get to them, then yeah,
I think it's great, but I thinkit's people don't think of it a
and B.
It's difficult to know wheresomeone physically is,
(06:35):
especially now that you knowwith remote.
Ashley (Gen Z) (06:38):
Yeah, I say so much in this occasion.
My one friend applied, gotreferred to this job, very well
known company I'm not going tosay the company because I'm
scared, but so many applicantsand even though, like he was
referred, like I told him, yougot to stand out.
There's like so many peopleapplying right now you got to
(06:59):
send like a handwritten note andhe was like I don't know where
to send it to because it's allremote, I don't know who to send
it to.
So I mean, I feel like thatwould have even like buttered up
the deal a little bit,especially since he was a
referral.
Pete (Gen X) (07:14):
But it makes it hard.
For a second.
I thought you were going to sayI don't know how to, I don't
know what handwriting is, but Idon't know exactly how big
companies process mail now, butI do know that there's.
I mean, you guys are describingas if there's some like big
pile of mail just stacked upsomewhere in the companies are
(07:35):
like I don't know what to dowith this, that they will get it
to the right person if theyactually work for that
organization.
So it's a.
It's a low it's actually loweffort.
If you think about it right,Get a stack of cards by, by a
packet, you know, at Walmart andorder order from Amazon.
Probably you can probably get 20note cards generic note cards
for like a couple bucks I'm surethey're very cheap and just get
(07:58):
in the habit of doing it.
As soon as you interview, assoon as if there's a job that
you genuinely want to go after,you should go all in on it,
right?
That's sort of the problemthat's been created with this
one click apply scenario, wherepeople apply to hundreds of jobs
, each job receives hundreds ofapplicants and no one's really
(08:19):
getting seen.
I mean, it's just a mess rightnow.
And so take advantage of anopportunity that's relatively
low, effort, inexpensive and canmake a huge difference in
separating yourself fromeveryone else.
Peter (Gen Y) (08:35):
Yeah, if you've interviewed with them and you
know who you're sending it to,that's a different story and I
would say, yeah, I meanobviously always send a thank
you note, even if it's just anemail, but sending it that thank
you note in a physical as aphysical letter, like that's
even, that's an extra step aboveit.
So I agree with that.
I think that's a really goodthing.
Pete (Gen X) (08:55):
Yeah, and I'll say one more thing pick up the
phone and call the company Iwant to get.
Yeah, I have to mail somethingto Bob Smith.
What address should I use?
They may not give it.
Maybe they'll just give you thecorporate address with a mail
stop.
Who knows how that works,depending on the company.
But make the phone call, makethe effort, you'll separate
yourself.
Do we have any comments?
(09:17):
We're not getting any commentsyet today.
Ashley (Gen Z) (09:19):
Is this Everybody agrees they're like
this but, I do have a questionIf you're let's say you're
working with a recruiter, couldyou ask the recruiter like, hey,
can you get me the address?
Like I would love to send ahandwritten note?
Is that like acceptable to aska recruiter?
Pete (Gen X) (09:38):
Yeah, if you're working with a recruiter.
So let's just further explainwhat that means a little bit.
There's we use the termsinterchangeably because they are
both recruiters, but corporaterecruiter different function
than the third party recruiter,staffing recruiter, if you will.
But in either case, yes, right,a corporate recruiter should
(09:58):
have that knowledge that theirfingertips, the staffing
recruiter, can reach out totheir contact the end user,
client, find out what addressshould be used.
I'm trying to think of ascenario where someone would say
no or not be helpful.
I know the third partyrecruiter would be very
motivated to help a candidate dothat because if they've been in
recruiting for any period oftime at all, they know it's a
(10:20):
valuable and unique thing to do.
So, yeah, that's a great idea.
Ashley ask, and there's just somany options you can.
Peter (Gen Y) (10:29):
Yeah, and that's a by the way, if a recruiter
tells you not to do that, that'sa red flag, Like that's.
I've heard horror stories ofpeople like, well, the recruiter
didn't want me to have anycontact, Like that's weird, Like
if any good recruiter they areas motivated, if not more, for
you to get the job than youshould be.
So they're gonna want you to goabove and beyond.
They should actually probablyany good recruiter, at least the
(10:50):
ones that I know.
They'll tell their candidateslike make sure you write a thank
you note, make sure you letexpress that you're interested,
ask questions, do all that stuff.
So, yeah, they should want youto go above and beyond.
Pete (Gen X) (11:03):
And if you want more to say, go to Zengigcom.
We have plenty of options ofall kinds of different emails,
letters, all the above.
Peter (Gen Y) (11:10):
Yep, yeah, we can help you out.
Pete (Gen X) (11:12):
All right, we can move on.
Not a lot of interest in thistopic, I guess.
All right, let's go.
I know.
Ashley (Gen Z) (11:16):
I love our PSA for the day, all right.
So our topic today is careerspecialization versus
generalization.
So are you a jack of all trades?
Are you a master of one?
So we're gonna start off byshowing a TikTok video really
quick and then we can discuss.
Sound good, all right?
Pete (Gen X) (11:38):
Yeah, I don't know what you're gonna get with
these?
Ashley (Gen Z) (11:41):
Let me add this guy to our stage, coach Jason.
All right, fun guy.
Peter (Gen Y) (11:48):
All right, coach.
What do you got for?
TikTok Video #1 (11:49):
me, should you be a specialist or a generalist?
When starting your career, Iwould feel that in the end goal
you wanna be a specialist.
So at the start, be ageneralist and do as many things
as possible in the company.
You know your own limit, butpush yourself as much as
possible to take on as manyopportunities as possible.
You need to figure out of allthe mountains, which is the one
that I really want to climb.
(12:11):
The more experience you havewith different things, the more
you know whether this is themountain for me.
Oh, I've tried this mountain,I'm good at it, but actually it
feels draining.
I'll go to another mountain, goanother mountain until you
actually find that one.
Some people are born to bespecial yeah, fortunate.
But for the rest of us we arenot fortunate.
We need to try as many thingsas possible.
Should you be a specialist?
Ashley (Gen Z) (12:30):
Oops all right, Thanks Jason, coach Jason.
Pete (Gen X) (12:34):
So I like that message.
Actually he was.
It sounded like he was sayingyes, you should ultimately find
something you're really good atand that you have strengths in,
but try different things untilyou get there.
I think that's great advice andthat's something that we talk
about a lot.
Peter (Gen Y) (12:50):
Yeah, definitely trying out different things and
not pigeonholing yourself andsaying, hey, I just wanna, I
only wanna work in thisdepartment, I don't even learn
anything outside of it.
Like that's a bad approach andthat's not gonna get you as far.
Obviously, later on in yourcareer, once you've experienced
a bunch of different things, youcan kind of move in a certain
direction.
I would actually argue, though,that once you get beyond, once
(13:12):
you've mastered something,you're actually, as you climb up
in a company, you're gonnawanna become a specialist again.
You know a CEO of a company,they're a generalist.
Sorry, a CEO of a company is ageneralist.
They have to know about all thedifferent areas of the company.
They can't just be specializedand knowing about one thing.
They might have come up and saythey were an accountant and
(13:32):
they know really a lot aboutfinance.
But as you grow, you've gottalearn about manufacturing.
You've gotta learn about IT Atleast enough to be competent and
talk to people in those otherdepartments.
Pete (Gen X) (13:45):
Well, that assumes you aspire to be in that role,
though, right, not everyone does, and I would argue, most
probably don't.
Peter (Gen Y) (13:54):
Yeah, that's true .
I just think that, as any sortof leader, you shouldn't ever
get to the point where you'relike I'm a specialist, I don't
need to know anymore.
Like, always keep an open mind.
I guess that's what I'm kind ofgetting at.
It's never a bad thing to knowabout how other departments in a
company work even if you'reonly focused in one thing.
Ashley (Gen Z) (14:19):
Do you think it's limiting when you're job
searching to be a generalist orspecialist?
Peter (Gen Y) (14:25):
Well, in today's job market, I think it can be
limiting to be a.
I actually think it can belimiting to be a generalist in
some some things, because thereare so many people there Like I
want the best person at doingexactly that and, depending on
the company size, I think thatalso matters.
Large companies, they wantspecialists.
A smaller company where you'regoing to put where a bunch of
(14:47):
different hats, I think that itcould be beneficial to be a
generalist.
But overall, if I'm looking atjust if I look at LinkedIn, I
look at job postings, most ofthem want a bunch of years of
experience, particularlytechnical roles or individual
contributor roles.
They want a bunch of experiencein this, a bunch of years of
experience in this, and they'rewanting people who are
specialized in that.
And, like Pete said earlier, Imean, if you've got a thousand
applicants, I want the personwho's the best specialized thing
(15:09):
in this one area.
So I think the market's betterfor specialists right now.
Pete (Gen X) (15:13):
We know that recruiters look at resumes and
they don't want to have to stopand question what this person is
all about, what they do.
They want it to jump off thepage.
So the more specialization youhave, the more clarity there is
about what it is you do reallywell, the better you're going to
be served in that situation inparticular.
(15:34):
But I think bigger companiesthere's opportunity to be more
specialized, right.
I have a particular client inmind years ago where they had a
team of people involved in justmanaging email, from
administration to assigning newlogins, and it was so siloed,
(15:58):
right.
You could be a specialist in avery specific area active
directory, for example,something I haven't thought
about in a long time.
But if you have to then go to asmaller company where you are
the only person who manages allof the email functions and
perhaps multiple things beyondthat, it's not going to serve
(16:18):
you as well.
So I think the company size isI mean we can talk about
individual departments too rightwhere marketing specialization
or even recruiting there'soperations there.
But company size is to me asmuch of a driver as anything
else is whether that opportunityis valuable and even exists.
Ashley (Gen Z) (16:40):
And would you guys say that either one causes
burnout.
Which one would cause moreburnout?
Wearing too many hats or juststicking to the one thing
constantly?
Peter (Gen Y) (16:51):
I think the generalist could.
I guess a generalist can burnout a little bit more, in my at
least, in my opinion if you'rebeing asked to do a bunch of
different things that you aren'tnecessarily great at you know.
That's where I guess it kind ofseems to me If you're a
specialist and you're reallygood at this one thing, I mean,
you're going to get burned outat the same rate as any other
job, I think.
But if you're being asked to dosomething and you're like I
(17:12):
have no idea, I got to learn howto do this and then be the
expert on doing this thing, or Igot to learn how to do this and
this and this and this and I'mjuggling a bunch of things, it
gives a lot more opportunitiesto be overloaded.
Ashley (Gen Z) (17:23):
I feel like being a specialist would cause
more burnout because you'redoing the same thing constantly.
I feel like you're going to getlike tired of it yeah.
And at least with like ageneralist wearing those so many
hats, it's going to be adifferent taste of everything.
Pete (Gen X) (17:37):
It's such an individual thing, though.
If you're a writer and you onlywant to write and you work for,
let's say, a market inmarketing, a copywriter may not
want to have to worry aboutdigital things like SEO and web
pages.
They may just want to worryabout words on paper, and so,
(18:02):
again, it's so individual.
But is there a generationalelement to this?
Right?
I mean, we're not talking aboutthat at all, yet I don't know
that there is other than mygeneration, was told, as was
yours, peter.
I think this is shifting.
You have to go to college topresumably become specialized in
(18:26):
something.
I don't think college is tiedto that anymore.
I think you have an opportunityto specialize in most things
without a college degree, butwhat about the generational
aspect of it?
Is there?
Peter (Gen Y) (18:39):
one.
I think millennial people Iknow the younger ones I mean
where you're always told like goto college and you get a degree
and your degree is to do athing.
I mean, if you look at likeliberal arts degrees and degrees
that are more generalist anddesigned to help you, you know,
have you think critically andproblem solve that type of thing
, but aren't really like how todo a specific task, those are
(19:01):
actually on the decline versusspecialized degrees, like a
degree in electrical engineering.
You're like I'm going to be anelectrical engineer and that's
even, you could argue, could bea generalist thing because it
can go in so many differentdirections.
But those types of degrees areincreasing and the people going
to college.
That's becoming more and moreprevalent, I think, because
(19:24):
people are viewing school as alaunching point to a specific
career, which I think is hardfor a lot of young people.
But that's beside the point.
Ashley (Gen Z) (19:33):
I feel like too, a lot of the times you have the
opportunity to get a minor incollege.
So let's just say my one friendwas a major in as like a
history teacher, and then shewanted to minor in photography.
That was like the second thingshe wanted to learn and like
kind of do as a side hustle inher career.
So I guess having a minor incollege also opens up the
(19:55):
opportunity of not being aspecialist in just one thing.
Peter (Gen Y) (20:00):
It gives you the opportunity to kind of test
different things.
I think.
Pete (Gen X) (20:04):
So this is a college question, but you think
it came up in the Republicandebate last night.
I don't know if you guyswatched it, but one of the one
of the candidates made a commentabout colleges and choice of
majors, and I mean there's somany majors that exist in
college that really prepare youto do nothing and, I would argue
(20:26):
, most bachelors, associate'sdegrees.
You're not qualified, thatyou're not specialized in
anything.
You don't have enough of aneducation.
I mean, I think you couldbecome more of a specialist by
consuming a fraction of theamount of time of YouTube
content and be much morespecialized in any bachelor's
(20:48):
degree.
Or is that in my role?
Ashley (Gen Z) (20:50):
Well, no, because I guess I'm like the
kind of the perfect person forthis.
As an example, my major is aBachelor in Arts, graphic Design
.
It's competitive.
There's not much I can do withit, so I feel like I don't know,
it's limiting.
(21:12):
It's limiting, especially.
It's limiting to graphic design, especially since it's
competitive.
There's already so many graphicdesigners out there and now,
with AI in the world, it kind ofmakes it pointless to get that
degree in my opinion.
So I feel like I've been ableto learn much more in the role
(21:33):
that I'm in right now inteaching myself and getting all
these certifications, versusjust going and getting that
degree.
Peter (Gen Y) (21:43):
I don't.
I view Going to school.
I view it, I guess, a littlebit differently, that I don't
think it's necessarily Sure, allright, if I wanted to, if I
want to learn to be a programmer, I can obviously teach myself.
There's enough YouTube videos,enough codecamps, enough,
whatever that I can do it.
I don't know that many peoplethat have that the discipline to
(22:06):
just do that and not getsidetracked and just in that
amount of time.
I think that the benefit ofschool that is, is meeting new
people.
It's this, is the social aspectof it.
It's the teachers thinking,teaching you how to think about
a problem, rather than teachingyou how to solve.
Like you know, they're notlooking at a problem and saying
do you need to do X, y and Zthis way?
(22:28):
I mean, there is obviouslyclasses that are like that, but
I'm talking about moregeneralist classes, degrees that
don't directly relate to aspecific career.
It's more about how to solve aproblem, how to think critically
, how to, how to go about doingthings, rather than, like
telling you how to, how to solvethose problems.
I say this as somebody who gota degree in English, so I'm not
(22:52):
clearly not English teacher.
Pete (Gen X) (22:54):
No, but presumably your English is better than
most, right, I mean that's.
Peter (Gen Y) (22:59):
I like to think I'm a decent writer, so at least
I have that going for well withcollege, with bachelor's
degrees.
Pete (Gen X) (23:06):
This is off topic, but I've noticed this with my
older two kids, who've, you know, once senior in college, once
already graduated.
They do so many group projects.
Was that a thing for you, ash?
I don't recall a single groupproject through four years of a
bachelor's degree and nowbeginning in middle school, then
(23:27):
high school.
I have two in high school, sothey're always doing group
projects which I find bizarre,like there's no learning, no
one's learned anything.
Ashley (Gen Z) (23:37):
I hated it, especially because if the
teacher, the professor, had topick who was going to be in your
group, sometimes you'd be stuckwith all the workload because
you didn't want to get a badgrade.
And if everyone does bad, theneveryone's going to get the same
grade.
So like one person has to carryon the team if there's going to
(23:57):
be other students that are justnot going to put in that effort
.
They want a good grade.
So I think it's kind of unfairin a way.
Peter (Gen Y) (24:04):
If you're not good at the class, it's good to
be in a group because you canhopefully someone's going to
carry you.
But if you're like in the top25% of the class, you're
probably going to get stuck withsomebody who's like not as good
as you and you're like, well,great, am I going to let this
guy do the PowerPoint or am Igoing to do it?
So it actually turns out.
Ashley (Gen Z) (24:19):
I can't tell you how many times I've been in
that situation.
I had to be like, well, itsucks, because I'm putting in
all this work and this person isgoing to get this grade because
of me.
Pete (Gen X) (24:33):
But I think my experience is pretty normal.
I went to a big state school,FSU, that there was no.
There was no group projects asbad as when we're getting our
bachelor's degrees, and now itseems like most of the classes
do that.
So that seems to be agenerational shift.
What comes out on the otherside of that?
Peter (Gen Y) (24:55):
Is it to teach people to?
Pete (Gen X) (24:56):
work together and not to make your emotions more
independent.
It just makes you guys lessindependent.
Peter (Gen Y) (25:03):
Well, you could argue that our generations are
better at working together,which is an essential human
trait.
Ashley (Gen Z) (25:10):
But it's not working together when you're
taking on the whole workload andthe other person isn't doing it
.
Peter (Gen Y) (25:14):
That's just making you a good leader,
because you're like I can'tcount on this person.
I got a delegated up to this.
The few projects now I didn'thave to do as many as it sounds
like Ashley did, but the fewthat I was on I ended up by
default becoming the projectmanager of it.
I was like all right, you'reresponsible for this, You're
responsible for this, Get thisto me and I'll put it all
together, type of thing.
I guess I got that theleadership skill from that.
(25:37):
So it wasn't the direct resultof what I actually was doing as
the project, but I got thatfringe benefit of learning.
Pete (Gen X) (25:45):
Okay, so I'm going to take another step down this
political path?
That probably shouldn't.
So I think we can agree thatAshley, your generation, so Gen
Z, has more socialist leaningsthan prior generations.
That's not a disagreeablestatement, right, Do you think
(26:10):
it is in some ways tied to thatsort of evolution through school
where group projects teach youto Collectivist thinking?
Yeah, you do the work.
We know that in any groupthere's going to be someone who
carries the load.
There's others who are going tobe slackers.
Rarely is it equal, but thatsort of sets a tone for that
(26:32):
coming out.
I deserve the same grade eventhough I did a fraction of the
work.
Or am I just trying to conflatethat something that is in no
way related?
Peter (Gen Y) (26:47):
I think that that's a good thought.
Everybody gets the same grade,even though this I don't think
that is not always the case.
I don't want it to sound likeevery time there's always an
awful person, but there'sdefinitely levels.
Some people are more confidentbossing other people around and
being like you do this, you dothis.
Some people like to just betold what's my project?
I got someone tell me I'm goingto do it, and they work better
(27:09):
that way.
I can see that thatcollectivist thinking comes from
that.
I don't know how prevalent theyare.
I guess I've been out of schooltoo long to see.
Is there one single groupproject in an entire semester?
I wouldn't say that's too many.
Is every project a groupproject?
Pete (Gen X) (27:29):
I'm telling you, it wouldn't.
Ashley (Gen Z) (27:31):
My political science class, every project was
a group project.
Peter (Gen Y) (27:36):
I'm going to do a group project in a class like
that.
When I took that class it waslike read this book, write
papers on it.
Ashley (Gen Z) (27:44):
Connect tables as soon as we get there every
day, you'd be like connect yourtables.
This is going to be yourcollective semester.
Pete (Gen X) (27:51):
I'm telling you my college senior.
Right now, as far as I can tell, pretty much everything he's
doing is a group project.
Ashley (Gen Z) (27:59):
It's bizarre.
Pete (Gen X) (28:00):
I don't get it.
Ashley (Gen Z) (28:01):
I do think it's unfair because, yeah, everyone
gets the same grade and peopleare putting in different levels
of effort Because they'restudents.
It doesn't matter if I'm tryingto be a leader and be like okay
, you need to do this, they'lllaugh in your face.
You can't go tattle on theprofessor.
The professor won't care.
They'll be like figure it out,it's all messed up in my opinion
(28:23):
.
I can say how to.
Pete (Gen X) (28:26):
We're not going to fix the educational system
today.
Peter (Gen Y) (28:29):
We think that it will get us back on track.
Do you think that thatcontributes to people wanting to
be more generalized and doingdifferent things, or does that
push people in a special way,yeah, I do this.
My job is PowerPoint, pagenumber two, and that is all I'm
going to care about.
Pete (Gen X) (28:50):
Yeah, you're in it out, right, yeah.
If you're only doing a fractionof the work and you only get a
fraction of the exposure to theend result, I don't get it.
I guess the collaboration pieceis okay, wonderful, that's
important.
Maybe do it once.
(29:11):
But the rest of it should beabout survival and learning and
growth and all the things thatyou need You're only going to
benefit from if you do it onyour own.
Peter (Gen Y) (29:24):
I think it depends on the class too, like
she said her.
Political science, unless maybeyou're learning something about
government.
I guess it could work.
I had to do a group project ina project management class, so
it kind of made sense.
Ashley (Gen Z) (29:37):
I'll say the one class I also failed that I
think should have beenindividual and not group
projects was probabilitystatistics, because I was like
biostats, because at the momentI wanted to be in the health
science.
Yeah, he made us work in groupsand I feel like I wasn't
learning anything because I'mjust so focused on trying to
(30:03):
copy this person's answersversus trying to figure it out
the hard way and learning itmyself.
So I feel like in a class likethat, actually we didn't know
you failed a class, so that wemy one class, the one class I
failed because I feel like mathshould never be done in like a
(30:24):
group project.
It should always be done likeyou need to do it on your own,
so you could figure it out onyour own, not done with like a
group, because then you're goingto end up copying everyone else
and then when it's test day,you're not going to know what
you're doing.
Peter (Gen Y) (30:39):
Yeah, I think the unless it's a huge scope, which
maybe it's because classes are,professors are just.
It's easier to put a bunch ofpeople in a group and say,
alright, here's a project, run,run a bunch of numbers on a
hospital you said health statsthat grow a bunch of numbers on
a hospital and put a bigpresentation together.
That's easier than havingindividualized lessons
throughout the day.
(30:59):
But we can.
You know that's a whole otherpath we could go down.
Ashley (Gen Z) (31:03):
Yeah, alright, back to specialists and
generalists.
Pete (Gen X) (31:06):
Back to it, alright.
So Stacy waited on this and, bythe way, I just realized why we
don't have that many comments.
We switched over to Zingig andwe only have 2000 followers on
Zingig, compared to the 30something thousand followers we
have on four corner resources.
So if you're watching us now,tell your friends please make
sure you follow our Zingig page.
Maybe we'll revert back to fourcorner for a while, until
(31:28):
Zingig, you're just talking outto the ether here.
Well, I mean, yeah, we're listen, we're doing our own group
project today.
I guess we'll figure it out.
So but, stacy, thanks forweighing in with your comment on
being a specialist.
And yeah, the goal is todevelop a true like and passion
for what you're doing.
I mean, that's utopia.
(31:49):
I think and that's why I reallyliked that comment from the
TikTok guy was keep tryingthings right.
I mean, find something thatyou're enthusiastic about and
you're willing to do, whetheryou're getting paid for it or
not.
I mean, that's best casescenario.
Easier said than done, ofcourse, but that's what everyone
should should strive towards.
Peter (Gen Y) (32:11):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Pete (Gen X) (32:15):
Alright, you want to do the other video?
Yes, so you think that's whatyou're doing.
Ashley (Gen Z) (32:24):
I don't know if you're not flying in today.
Peter (Gen Y) (32:26):
Hold on, let's see what this cuckoo pants has
to say.
TikTok Video #2 (32:30):
I don't know if she's gonna be a cuckoo pants,
but let's see, they're acid wash.
Generalist versus specialistwhich is better?
My answer might surprise you.
So a lot of people think thatbeing a generalist is better,
because if you offer more stuff,then you can serve more clients
and you can make more money.
Right?
Imagine you have a Ferrari anda part of it breaks.
You wouldn't just take it toyour common mechanic down the
(32:51):
street, would you?
No, you love that Ferrari.
You spent a whole lot of moneyon it.
You want to take good care ofit and make sure that only the
best mechanics, who knoweverything there is to know
about Ferraris, are working onit.
And that is because it isspecial.
It's the same thing withcopywriting Do you want to be
general or do you want to bespecial?
So I will always advocate forgoing deep.
Peter (Gen Y) (33:11):
You can argue then in her analogy that the
demand is not as much for aspecialist, because how?
TikTok Video #2 (33:17):
many people got .
Peter (Gen Y) (33:18):
Lamborghinis that need working on versus how many
people need to go to thatcommon mechanic.
Pete (Gen X) (33:23):
So that I mean.
Well, I mean we're talkingabout the law of supply and
demand.
I think is really what it comesdown to, and the bigger the
supply, the less premium you canattach to it, and that makes
perfect sense.
So I mean, even look at justlook at physicians, right, we
could probably go down the linein any particular industry.
(33:45):
You know, the neurosurgeonmakes a lot more money than the
general practitioner, because aneurosurgeon is does something
the general practitioner can'tdo, but for the most part, the
general practitioner, theneurosurgeon, could do all the
things the general practitionercan do, right, not maybe as well
, but there are a lot morepeople who can be a GP than
(34:06):
there are neurosurgeon.
I think that I think the needfor a neurosurgeon, is not it?
Peter (Gen Y) (34:12):
Not everybody needs a neurosurgeon and most
things can be solved by the GP.
So yeah, I think that's highrisk, high reward.
I guess is kind of what youlook at with specialists.
Pete (Gen X) (34:25):
Well, I think.
I think that pulls us back intothe college conversation a
little bit, because we have somany people going to get degrees
.
You know, ashley, let's justuse your graphic design as a
good example.
So, when you come out ofcollege, is we've placed a lot
of graphic designers over theyears from a staffing
perspective, and I'm trying torecall, I mean, maybe there's a
(34:49):
bachelor's requirement, maybe,but nobody really cares, right?
No one cares about your GPA, noone cares what you went, where
you went to school.
They want to see your portfolio, they want to see what you can
do for them, and that is goingto come down to your skill and
the tools that you use and yourknowledge, your creativity, are
you talented and do you havebreadth and depth of skill.
(35:13):
So nobody's looking at matchingup all of those graphic design
degrees, though, to the demandthat's out there, right, like
who's watching that?
And it is something that wethink about a lot at ZinGig and,
of course, we know at the riskof college is important and
(35:33):
necessary for so many people andso many things.
However, it shouldn't be thedefault answer, right, and you
know, I don't know.
What do you think about that?
Actually, with graphic design.
I mean, since you've recentlyexperienced this, do you think
that degree was valuable to you?
Ashley (Gen Z) (35:57):
Um, I feel like no.
I feel like no because most ofeverything that I was doing was
on my own time Like all theprojects that I was doing in
school, I feel like weren't goodenough to show in a portfolio.
They basically were teaching mestuff that you know I could
(36:18):
have learned just lookingthrough YouTube.
My one graphic design professorhad us looking at YouTube
videos instead of her teachingus, so she would just go around
and just offer extra help.
We learned from YouTube, so Ifeel like I could have just done
that all on my own, but I guessI just wouldn't have had her to
(36:39):
ask any questions.
So I feel like I want to sayyes and no, thank you.
Yes, as in it's a waste becauseI again could have taught
myself, but no because I feellike it's also helped me get to
where I am today, because italso helped me understand a
little bit about the marketingworld.
Pete (Gen X) (37:00):
Would you have taught yourself?
Peter (Gen Y) (37:02):
Yeah that's.
Ashley (Gen Z) (37:03):
I feel like if I was truly passionate about it
and I knew that teaching myselfcould get me a job.
Yes, but I feel like nowadayspeople just love to see a
college degree on your resume.
It's kind of just like okay, ifI teach myself, they're going
to be like oh, you didn't get acollege degree, because
(37:25):
sometimes they require bachelorsand something.
Pete (Gen X) (37:28):
Do you think that?
I mean, peter, do you thinkthat?
Because I would have said theopposite.
So when I was your age, I thinkcollege degrees were more
meaningful and necessary thanthey are now.
Right?
So you couldn't.
There was no YouTube.
You couldn't teach yourself tobe a fill in the blank, right?
I interviewed a WordPressdeveloper for one of our
(37:51):
WordPress career guide to put alittle clip on there about how
she became a WordPress developerand she taught herself.
She taught herself.
She was already a background intechnology, but she took it
upon herself.
She didn't go to school forthat structured informal
training.
And also, actually, when I wasyour age, I worked for a Fortune
(38:12):
500 company where they had apolicy that you could not get
promoted to a director levelunless you had a master's degree
.
Now, how arbitrary is thatright?
It doesn't matter if you're thebest performer and the best
manager and the best whatever.
Some arbitrary rule is going toput a ceiling on top.
I think that's absurd.
I didn't stand that company.
(38:32):
I can't support that, right,peter?
What do you think about that?
You think it's more important?
Peter (Gen Y) (38:40):
I agree with that , but I think that, Well, two
things.
Yes, a bachelor's degree,because so many people have them
.
They don't mean nearly as muchas what they used to.
Now it's like almost a master'sis what a bachelor's used to be
.
To set yourself aside, I thinka lot of times it's just an HR
or whatever manager justchecking a box, effectively Like
(39:02):
do you have this Becausecompanies said that you have to
have this?
It doesn't actually mean it.
How many times have we talkedto particularly all these
software developers, Becausethat's the one I always think of
and they're like oh well, thesoftware developer, they have to
have a degree.
Why?
Why does it matter if they knowthe language that you need them
to know and they're really goodat it?
Pete (Gen X) (39:23):
So I'll give you an answer CIO gave me years ago
when I asked that very question.
We were recruiting a lot of NETdevelopers at the time for this
team and of course there was alot who didn't have a bachelor's
degree and this companyrequired it.
Now they were in the educationspace.
So you go OK.
(39:44):
Well, that sort of goes hand inhand, but we would have to look
past some of the bestdevelopers out there simply for
that reason.
So when I asked the CIO, he saidbecause it gives me a baseline.
It gives me a baseline thatthey could meet a commitment,
they could make a commitment,keep it, it could accomplish
certain things.
And so when I don't knowanything else about this person
(40:06):
other than what I'm going tolearn in the interview from the
resume, maybe from references, Iknow that they were able to
complete that and that'smeaningful to me and that's all
that.
Comments always stuck with mebecause I went OK, because I
would ask the same question likeman we're turned out all these
great people.
Well, I had to respect that andI get where he's coming from.
Peter (Gen Y) (40:28):
And I think that's the same thing as like
getting certifications youeffectively look at it as it's
just another certification, it'ssomething on their resume that
says they can do at least this.
Like you said, baseline.
I can agree with that.
But in today's thing whereparticularly I'll continue with
(40:48):
software developer if you've gotexamples of your code out there
, with things like GitHub andeven with that, actually with a
graphic designer, you're goingto have a portfolio, you've got
examples.
So maybe that doesn't, itdoesn't mean as much anymore.
I don't think we're going tochange anything.
I think it's going to continueon, but I think that a
(41:10):
bachelor's degree should not bethe end all be all of somebody
in the job market.
Ashley (Gen Z) (41:16):
Yes 100%.
I think you should be a jack ofall trades.
Peter (Gen Y) (41:24):
I think that you should probably err on that side
.
If you want to get specializedin something, you just have to
be a keep in mind like.
If you're going to specializein this one specific technology,
you can yes, you can command ahigher pay, but it's also going
to make you a little bit moresusceptible to market changes.
There's an example.
I remember talking to thisdeveloper and he specialized in
(41:48):
I believe it was called coldfusion, which was a language or
a framework from that's nolonger used, and he was having a
hard time finding it because hespecialized really heavily in
that and he didn't really branchout at all.
He was.
Companies weren't using it asmuch anymore, so he was not in
nearly high demand as he used tobe.
(42:09):
So I kind of think that that isan example of like.
If you're going to do that, youshould not shut your mind off
from other avenues.
Pete (Gen X) (42:17):
So that's such an important element of this and
I'm really glad you brought itup because we kind of got away
from the graphic designdiscussion Actually mentioned AI
.
Ai is changing all the rules.
So even if you were the bestgraphic designer using the tools
that were available to you ayear ago, there's a whole
(42:39):
different set of options rightnow that can create faster,
better maybe not better right,but the same quality, much
faster, with less effort, withless knowledge needed in order
to do it.
We see that with programmingright now.
So that's a scary thing aboutspecialization if you're not
(43:02):
open to change and adapting,because the world's changing
whether you want it to or not.
Peter (Gen Y) (43:12):
In nature, it's the generalists who are the ones
who survive.
It's great to find a niche, butif any little thing changes in
the environment, like those arethe ones who are the first to be
most susceptible.
Ashley (Gen Z) (43:23):
Humans are generalists, so that's a good
way to put it, Peter.
Pete (Gen X) (43:27):
Well, and from a generational standpoint.
I think, my generation is goingto.
It's going to be tough, becauseif you're not inclined to take
advantage of these newtechnologies and I think it's
probably 50-50, right, somepeople I mean, if you're my age,
you could think of yourself asyoung, with lots to learn still
(43:50):
and things to do, or you couldthink of yourself as old.
Right, it's definitely amindset.
A mindset, yeah.
But those who have closed offand said I'm never going to have
to worry about that, I'mtowards the end of my career
Well, if you have five years togo, let alone 10, it's going to
look entirely different.
I mean, we already know in somerespects graphic design being
(44:13):
one we're writing, we talkedabout that too that entire
industry or profession hasalready changed and the rules
are being rewritten constantlyat a very rapid pace.
So if the younger you arementally and being willing to
adapt, the better off you'regoing to be, and if you're not,
it's going to be really hard foryou to survive in the
(44:36):
professional space.
Yeah, absolutely.
Ashley (Gen Z) (44:38):
Yeah, 100%.
Pete (Gen X) (44:41):
What else are we going to cover before I?
Ashley (Gen Z) (44:46):
mean, I think that was it.
I think we all made our pointspretty clear.
Pete (Gen X) (44:51):
I miss our, I miss our.
I'm not going to call it a fan,no, our audience.
They're probably notnecessarily fans, but we're our
fans.
Ashley (Gen Z) (44:59):
Engaging with our audience.
Pete (Gen X) (45:01):
Our audience.
Thank you, that is our crewCrew.
Nice Pete, we need, you know weneed, we need them back.
So we'll move on.
Peter (Gen Y) (45:09):
We'll answer your questions after the fact here.
If you're listening to this,send us.
Send us your questions so wecan address them on our next
week's.
Ashley (Gen Z) (45:17):
Yeah, should we do another Q and A?
Yeah, we've got.
Peter (Gen Y) (45:21):
I know we've got some building up where you
haven't addressed yet becausethey didn't really fit with the
theme.
Pete (Gen X) (45:26):
So, all right, we can do that.
We can do that, all right.
Well then, I guess it's goodbyefor now.
Ashley (Gen Z) (45:32):
Goodbye for now.
Peter (Gen Y) (45:33):
See you, see you guys, we'll see you next Tuesday
.
See you next Tuesday.
Ashley (Gen Z) (45:37):
All right, all right.
After another session with technical
difficulties.
Our Gen X is slowly trying tofigure it out, but let's.
Peter (Gen Y) (00:10):
He's merging into the 21st century here from his
dialogue action Wow this is.
Pete (Gen X) (00:16):
Can you guys hear me like you should, Because
otherwise I'm pretty defenselessin this scenario.
Peter (Gen Y) (00:22):
I mean it depends on how much of a lag there is.
I don't think there is.
Pete (Gen X) (00:26):
All right.
Well, we won't call out ourlocal internet provider on this,
but here we are, we're good, weare live, and apparently my
voice is matching my image forthe moment, so that's a good
thing.
So, peter, you want to dointroductions, since you were
gone last week?
Peter (Gen Y) (00:42):
Yeah, perfect.
So welcome to Gen XYZ.
It's obviously this is a showabout me, the millennial.
I'm Gen Y and yeah, so there'sthe introduction there.
Yeah, so I am the millennial ofthe group.
Ashley (Gen Z) (00:59):
I am Gen Z, I'm Ashley.
Pete (Gen X) (01:04):
I'm Pete, I'm Gen X, and they are thinking that
I'm the old guy always, but inparticular today, because my
internet connection is notworking and so by default, they
think it's a problem I'm havingwith technology, which it most
certainly is not.
Peter (Gen Y) (01:20):
He's just doing a retro JPEG thing Like he's like
hey, I'm trying to bring backthe 90s and GeoCities, cities,
websites and whatnot.
Ashley (Gen Z) (01:28):
He's on a really old Mac computer that has like
some blocks in the back.
Peter (Gen Y) (01:32):
The clear back computer is the iMacs, no.
Pete (Gen X) (01:36):
You know I saw posts this morning that that
came out 25 years ago today, ornot today, but 25 years ago now,
because Google just turned 25.
And that's when that Mac withthe colored background came out.
Peter (Gen Y) (01:47):
That's crazy.
Those were like all the rage inthe early 2000s, like that was
the cool thing cool kids had.
Pete (Gen X) (01:55):
Cool kids, so I'll switch to my phone if this
isn't good.
If you're joining us, thank you.
Thanks for bearing with ustoday.
Technology is always fun,especially when it's live, but
we have a few topics we want totalk about today, but, as always
, we will stop.
We will address questions orcomments.
If you guys have anything you'dlike us to discuss, debate,
(02:16):
fight about that, can we likedoing all of that?
But the point of our show eachweek is to talk about
generational differences.
We try to keep it relevant tothe workplace.
Sometimes we get a little offtrack, so can I just get off
track to start behind?
Why not Go ahead?
So I was on a podcast.
I was a guest on a podcastearlier this week and we were
(02:39):
talking about interviews and howto follow up with them and
specifically, we talked abouthandwritten notes, something
that you guys know I'm a bigbeliever in.
I think candidates should takeadvantage of.
Very few do it stands out.
It is a great differentiator ina very crowded space.
(03:00):
Right now, the job market issuper crowded for professional
jobs and if you're watching onLinkedIn right now, you know
that all too well.
Jobs regularly get more than1,000 applicants within a day of
being posted.
It's crazy.
I've never seen anything likeit, and so a lot of candidates
want to know how do I stand out?
What can I do?
That's different than the packand handwritten note is special,
(03:23):
so I was thinking about this inanticipation of our show.
You guys sort of missed thewindow on that.
Right Like when I graduatedfrom college my now wife was
still in college we would writeletters to each other, we'd
write notes, send cards.
You guys never do that.
(03:43):
Right Like it's not.
Have you ever sent anyone acard in the mail, ashley?
Ashley (Gen Z) (03:49):
Maybe like postcard.
I think that's it.
Peter (Gen Y) (03:55):
It's like for the novel to happen.
Ashley (Gen Z) (03:57):
Yeah, just, I think I sent something to my
cousin once, and that was it,and then we just Do you know
what stamps are?
Pete (Gen X) (04:06):
Yes, but really like handwritten notes, peter,
what about you?
Did you ever send letters?
Peter (Gen Y) (04:15):
Not because I had to.
I mean, I have sent, I havesent letters, I have done, but
it's been more for like thenovelty of it than like
necessity of it.
Like I've typed a letter on atypewriter and mailed it, but it
was more to like do it becauseit was like oh look, this crazy
ancient technology I'm likeusing, rather than like
(04:35):
necessity of like I'm justsending you a letter.
Ashley (Gen Z) (04:38):
I was just feeling quirky one day and I was
like, let me do this littlecute thing and send this
postcard to my cousin.
Post office line was not long.
There was a bunch of old peoplein line and I was the only
young person in there.
Pete (Gen X) (04:51):
Right, so so here's OK.
So you said it's a noveltything.
I occasionally will get ahandwritten note, a card.
It doesn't have to be fancy,and what's different about it
than the hundreds and hundredsof emails that I may get in a
given day, most which are spam.
It's meaningful, I know therewas effort involved.
(05:15):
It's different and, for reasonsI can't explain, I have a
difficult time throwing out acard that someone sends me.
I will keep it around and,peter, you probably remember
seeing cards on my desk that Ireceived from salespeople, or
can it to?
Peter (Gen Y) (05:32):
I would get them to it.
Yeah, and you're like I'm likethis is some random guy.
Like I don't even know who thisperson is, why can't I throw
this card?
Because I feel bad, likesomehow he's going to have his
feelings hurt that I threw outhis card.
Pete (Gen X) (05:43):
Yeah, and I think that's why people keep them.
I mean, my wife was lookingthrough old, old cards the other
day, and that's one of thereasons.
This was on my mind too, and Ithought my kids will never do
that.
You guys have never done that.
So what do you guys think abouthandwritten notes?
I mean, do you think it has thesame impact, and do you think
it's as good of an idea forcandidates to as I do?
(06:03):
I'm a huge fan of it.
I think it should be, and noone does it.
I say it all the time, say itnow.
Whoever watches this, you'llhear it, and no one's going to
do it.
Peter (Gen Y) (06:12):
I think it's just difficult to let's particularly
people working remote, you know, you don't know, you don't wear
a sender.
If you can, if you can 100%definitively know where this
manager or whoever works and youknow that if I write him a note
and I mail it to this it'sgoing to get to them, then yeah,
I think it's great, but I thinkit's people don't think of it a
and B.
It's difficult to know wheresomeone physically is,
(06:35):
especially now that you knowwith remote.
Ashley (Gen Z) (06:38):
Yeah, I say so much in this occasion.
My one friend applied, gotreferred to this job, very well
known company I'm not going tosay the company because I'm
scared, but so many applicantsand even though, like he was
referred, like I told him, yougot to stand out.
There's like so many peopleapplying right now you got to
(06:59):
send like a handwritten note andhe was like I don't know where
to send it to because it's allremote, I don't know who to send
it to.
So I mean, I feel like thatwould have even like buttered up
the deal a little bit,especially since he was a
referral.
Pete (Gen X) (07:14):
But it makes it hard.
For a second.
I thought you were going to sayI don't know how to, I don't
know what handwriting is, but Idon't know exactly how big
companies process mail now, butI do know that there's.
I mean, you guys are describingas if there's some like big
pile of mail just stacked upsomewhere in the companies are
(07:35):
like I don't know what to dowith this, that they will get it
to the right person if theyactually work for that
organization.
So it's a.
It's a low it's actually loweffort.
If you think about it right,Get a stack of cards by, by a
packet, you know, at Walmart andorder order from Amazon.
Probably you can probably get 20note cards generic note cards
for like a couple bucks I'm surethey're very cheap and just get
(07:58):
in the habit of doing it.
As soon as you interview, assoon as if there's a job that
you genuinely want to go after,you should go all in on it,
right?
That's sort of the problemthat's been created with this
one click apply scenario, wherepeople apply to hundreds of jobs
, each job receives hundreds ofapplicants and no one's really
(08:19):
getting seen.
I mean, it's just a mess rightnow.
And so take advantage of anopportunity that's relatively
low, effort, inexpensive and canmake a huge difference in
separating yourself fromeveryone else.
Peter (Gen Y) (08:35):
Yeah, if you've interviewed with them and you
know who you're sending it to,that's a different story and I
would say, yeah, I meanobviously always send a thank
you note, even if it's just anemail, but sending it that thank
you note in a physical as aphysical letter, like that's
even, that's an extra step aboveit.
So I agree with that.
I think that's a really goodthing.
Pete (Gen X) (08:55):
Yeah, and I'll say one more thing pick up the
phone and call the company Iwant to get.
Yeah, I have to mail somethingto Bob Smith.
What address should I use?
They may not give it.
Maybe they'll just give you thecorporate address with a mail
stop.
Who knows how that works,depending on the company.
But make the phone call, makethe effort, you'll separate
yourself.
Do we have any comments?
(09:17):
We're not getting any commentsyet today.
Ashley (Gen Z) (09:19):
Is this Everybody agrees they're like
this but, I do have a questionIf you're let's say you're
working with a recruiter, couldyou ask the recruiter like, hey,
can you get me the address?
Like I would love to send ahandwritten note?
Is that like acceptable to aska recruiter?
Pete (Gen X) (09:38):
Yeah, if you're working with a recruiter.
So let's just further explainwhat that means a little bit.
There's we use the termsinterchangeably because they are
both recruiters, but corporaterecruiter different function
than the third party recruiter,staffing recruiter, if you will.
But in either case, yes, right,a corporate recruiter should
(09:58):
have that knowledge that theirfingertips, the staffing
recruiter, can reach out totheir contact the end user,
client, find out what addressshould be used.
I'm trying to think of ascenario where someone would say
no or not be helpful.
I know the third partyrecruiter would be very
motivated to help a candidate dothat because if they've been in
recruiting for any period oftime at all, they know it's a
(10:20):
valuable and unique thing to do.
So, yeah, that's a great idea.
Ashley ask, and there's just somany options you can.
Peter (Gen Y) (10:29):
Yeah, and that's a by the way, if a recruiter
tells you not to do that, that'sa red flag, Like that's.
I've heard horror stories ofpeople like, well, the recruiter
didn't want me to have anycontact, Like that's weird, Like
if any good recruiter they areas motivated, if not more, for
you to get the job than youshould be.
So they're gonna want you to goabove and beyond.
They should actually probablyany good recruiter, at least the
(10:50):
ones that I know.
They'll tell their candidateslike make sure you write a thank
you note, make sure you letexpress that you're interested,
ask questions, do all that stuff.
So, yeah, they should want youto go above and beyond.
Pete (Gen X) (11:03):
And if you want more to say, go to Zengigcom.
We have plenty of options ofall kinds of different emails,
letters, all the above.
Peter (Gen Y) (11:10):
Yep, yeah, we can help you out.
Pete (Gen X) (11:12):
All right, we can move on.
Not a lot of interest in thistopic, I guess.
All right, let's go.
I know.
Ashley (Gen Z) (11:16):
I love our PSA for the day, all right.
So our topic today is careerspecialization versus
generalization.
So are you a jack of all trades?
Are you a master of one?
So we're gonna start off byshowing a TikTok video really
quick and then we can discuss.
Sound good, all right?
Pete (Gen X) (11:38):
Yeah, I don't know what you're gonna get with
these?
Ashley (Gen Z) (11:41):
Let me add this guy to our stage, coach Jason.
All right, fun guy.
Peter (Gen Y) (11:48):
All right, coach.
What do you got for?
TikTok Video #1 (11:49):
me, should you be a specialist or a generalist?
When starting your career, Iwould feel that in the end goal
you wanna be a specialist.
So at the start, be ageneralist and do as many things
as possible in the company.
You know your own limit, butpush yourself as much as
possible to take on as manyopportunities as possible.
You need to figure out of allthe mountains, which is the one
that I really want to climb.
(12:11):
The more experience you havewith different things, the more
you know whether this is themountain for me.
Oh, I've tried this mountain,I'm good at it, but actually it
feels draining.
I'll go to another mountain, goanother mountain until you
actually find that one.
Some people are born to bespecial yeah, fortunate.
But for the rest of us we arenot fortunate.
We need to try as many thingsas possible.
Should you be a specialist?
Ashley (Gen Z) (12:30):
Oops all right, Thanks Jason, coach Jason.
Pete (Gen X) (12:34):
So I like that message.
Actually he was.
It sounded like he was sayingyes, you should ultimately find
something you're really good atand that you have strengths in,
but try different things untilyou get there.
I think that's great advice andthat's something that we talk
about a lot.
Peter (Gen Y) (12:50):
Yeah, definitely trying out different things and
not pigeonholing yourself andsaying, hey, I just wanna, I
only wanna work in thisdepartment, I don't even learn
anything outside of it.
Like that's a bad approach andthat's not gonna get you as far.
Obviously, later on in yourcareer, once you've experienced
a bunch of different things, youcan kind of move in a certain
direction.
I would actually argue, though,that once you get beyond, once
(13:12):
you've mastered something,you're actually, as you climb up
in a company, you're gonnawanna become a specialist again.
You know a CEO of a company,they're a generalist.
Sorry, a CEO of a company is ageneralist.
They have to know about all thedifferent areas of the company.
They can't just be specializedand knowing about one thing.
They might have come up and saythey were an accountant and
(13:32):
they know really a lot aboutfinance.
But as you grow, you've gottalearn about manufacturing.
You've gotta learn about IT Atleast enough to be competent and
talk to people in those otherdepartments.
Pete (Gen X) (13:45):
Well, that assumes you aspire to be in that role,
though, right, not everyone does, and I would argue, most
probably don't.
Peter (Gen Y) (13:54):
Yeah, that's true .
I just think that, as any sortof leader, you shouldn't ever
get to the point where you'relike I'm a specialist, I don't
need to know anymore.
Like, always keep an open mind.
I guess that's what I'm kind ofgetting at.
It's never a bad thing to knowabout how other departments in a
company work even if you'reonly focused in one thing.
Ashley (Gen Z) (14:19):
Do you think it's limiting when you're job
searching to be a generalist orspecialist?
Peter (Gen Y) (14:25):
Well, in today's job market, I think it can be
limiting to be a.
I actually think it can belimiting to be a generalist in
some some things, because thereare so many people there Like I
want the best person at doingexactly that and, depending on
the company size, I think thatalso matters.
Large companies, they wantspecialists.
A smaller company where you'regoing to put where a bunch of
(14:47):
different hats, I think that itcould be beneficial to be a
generalist.
But overall, if I'm looking atjust if I look at LinkedIn, I
look at job postings, most ofthem want a bunch of years of
experience, particularlytechnical roles or individual
contributor roles.
They want a bunch of experiencein this, a bunch of years of
experience in this, and they'rewanting people who are
specialized in that.
And, like Pete said earlier, Imean, if you've got a thousand
applicants, I want the personwho's the best specialized thing
(15:09):
in this one area.
So I think the market's betterfor specialists right now.
Pete (Gen X) (15:13):
We know that recruiters look at resumes and
they don't want to have to stopand question what this person is
all about, what they do.
They want it to jump off thepage.
So the more specialization youhave, the more clarity there is
about what it is you do reallywell, the better you're going to
be served in that situation inparticular.
(15:34):
But I think bigger companiesthere's opportunity to be more
specialized, right.
I have a particular client inmind years ago where they had a
team of people involved in justmanaging email, from
administration to assigning newlogins, and it was so siloed,
(15:58):
right.
You could be a specialist in avery specific area active
directory, for example,something I haven't thought
about in a long time.
But if you have to then go to asmaller company where you are
the only person who manages allof the email functions and
perhaps multiple things beyondthat, it's not going to serve
(16:18):
you as well.
So I think the company size isI mean we can talk about
individual departments too rightwhere marketing specialization
or even recruiting there'soperations there.
But company size is to me asmuch of a driver as anything
else is whether that opportunityis valuable and even exists.
Ashley (Gen Z) (16:40):
And would you guys say that either one causes
burnout.
Which one would cause moreburnout?
Wearing too many hats or juststicking to the one thing
constantly?
Peter (Gen Y) (16:51):
I think the generalist could.
I guess a generalist can burnout a little bit more, in my at
least, in my opinion if you'rebeing asked to do a bunch of
different things that you aren'tnecessarily great at you know.
That's where I guess it kind ofseems to me If you're a
specialist and you're reallygood at this one thing, I mean,
you're going to get burned outat the same rate as any other
job, I think.
But if you're being asked to dosomething and you're like I
(17:12):
have no idea, I got to learn howto do this and then be the
expert on doing this thing, or Igot to learn how to do this and
this and this and this and I'mjuggling a bunch of things, it
gives a lot more opportunitiesto be overloaded.
Ashley (Gen Z) (17:23):
I feel like being a specialist would cause
more burnout because you'redoing the same thing constantly.
I feel like you're going to getlike tired of it yeah.
And at least with like ageneralist wearing those so many
hats, it's going to be adifferent taste of everything.
Pete (Gen X) (17:37):
It's such an individual thing, though.
If you're a writer and you onlywant to write and you work for,
let's say, a market inmarketing, a copywriter may not
want to have to worry aboutdigital things like SEO and web
pages.
They may just want to worryabout words on paper, and so,
(18:02):
again, it's so individual.
But is there a generationalelement to this?
Right?
I mean, we're not talking aboutthat at all, yet I don't know
that there is other than mygeneration, was told, as was
yours, peter.
I think this is shifting.
You have to go to college topresumably become specialized in
(18:26):
something.
I don't think college is tiedto that anymore.
I think you have an opportunityto specialize in most things
without a college degree, butwhat about the generational
aspect of it?
Is there?
Peter (Gen Y) (18:39):
one.
I think millennial people Iknow the younger ones I mean
where you're always told like goto college and you get a degree
and your degree is to do athing.
I mean, if you look at likeliberal arts degrees and degrees
that are more generalist anddesigned to help you, you know,
have you think critically andproblem solve that type of thing
, but aren't really like how todo a specific task, those are
(19:01):
actually on the decline versusspecialized degrees, like a
degree in electrical engineering.
You're like I'm going to be anelectrical engineer and that's
even, you could argue, could bea generalist thing because it
can go in so many differentdirections.
But those types of degrees areincreasing and the people going
to college.
That's becoming more and moreprevalent, I think, because
(19:24):
people are viewing school as alaunching point to a specific
career, which I think is hardfor a lot of young people.
But that's beside the point.
Ashley (Gen Z) (19:33):
I feel like too, a lot of the times you have the
opportunity to get a minor incollege.
So let's just say my one friendwas a major in as like a
history teacher, and then shewanted to minor in photography.
That was like the second thingshe wanted to learn and like
kind of do as a side hustle inher career.
So I guess having a minor incollege also opens up the
(19:55):
opportunity of not being aspecialist in just one thing.
Peter (Gen Y) (20:00):
It gives you the opportunity to kind of test
different things.
I think.
Pete (Gen X) (20:04):
So this is a college question, but you think
it came up in the Republicandebate last night.
I don't know if you guyswatched it, but one of the one
of the candidates made a commentabout colleges and choice of
majors, and I mean there's somany majors that exist in
college that really prepare youto do nothing and, I would argue
(20:26):
, most bachelors, associate'sdegrees.
You're not qualified, thatyou're not specialized in
anything.
You don't have enough of aneducation.
I mean, I think you couldbecome more of a specialist by
consuming a fraction of theamount of time of YouTube
content and be much morespecialized in any bachelor's
(20:48):
degree.
Or is that in my role?
Ashley (Gen Z) (20:50):
Well, no, because I guess I'm like the
kind of the perfect person forthis.
As an example, my major is aBachelor in Arts, graphic Design
.
It's competitive.
There's not much I can do withit, so I feel like I don't know,
it's limiting.
(21:12):
It's limiting, especially.
It's limiting to graphic design, especially since it's
competitive.
There's already so many graphicdesigners out there and now,
with AI in the world, it kind ofmakes it pointless to get that
degree in my opinion.
So I feel like I've been ableto learn much more in the role
(21:33):
that I'm in right now inteaching myself and getting all
these certifications, versusjust going and getting that
degree.
Peter (Gen Y) (21:43):
I don't.
I view Going to school.
I view it, I guess, a littlebit differently, that I don't
think it's necessarily Sure, allright, if I wanted to, if I
want to learn to be a programmer, I can obviously teach myself.
There's enough YouTube videos,enough codecamps, enough,
whatever that I can do it.
I don't know that many peoplethat have that the discipline to
(22:06):
just do that and not getsidetracked and just in that
amount of time.
I think that the benefit ofschool that is, is meeting new
people.
It's this, is the social aspectof it.
It's the teachers thinking,teaching you how to think about
a problem, rather than teachingyou how to solve.
Like you know, they're notlooking at a problem and saying
do you need to do X, y and Zthis way?
(22:28):
I mean, there is obviouslyclasses that are like that, but
I'm talking about moregeneralist classes, degrees that
don't directly relate to aspecific career.
It's more about how to solve aproblem, how to think critically
, how to, how to go about doingthings, rather than, like
telling you how to, how to solvethose problems.
I say this as somebody who gota degree in English, so I'm not
(22:52):
clearly not English teacher.
Pete (Gen X) (22:54):
No, but presumably your English is better than
most, right, I mean that's.
Peter (Gen Y) (22:59):
I like to think I'm a decent writer, so at least
I have that going for well withcollege, with bachelor's
degrees.
Pete (Gen X) (23:06):
This is off topic, but I've noticed this with my
older two kids, who've, you know, once senior in college, once
already graduated.
They do so many group projects.
Was that a thing for you, ash?
I don't recall a single groupproject through four years of a
bachelor's degree and nowbeginning in middle school, then
(23:27):
high school.
I have two in high school, sothey're always doing group
projects which I find bizarre,like there's no learning, no
one's learned anything.
Ashley (Gen Z) (23:37):
I hated it, especially because if the
teacher, the professor, had topick who was going to be in your
group, sometimes you'd be stuckwith all the workload because
you didn't want to get a badgrade.
And if everyone does bad, theneveryone's going to get the same
grade.
So like one person has to carryon the team if there's going to
(23:57):
be other students that are justnot going to put in that effort
.
They want a good grade.
So I think it's kind of unfairin a way.
Peter (Gen Y) (24:04):
If you're not good at the class, it's good to
be in a group because you canhopefully someone's going to
carry you.
But if you're like in the top25% of the class, you're
probably going to get stuck withsomebody who's like not as good
as you and you're like, well,great, am I going to let this
guy do the PowerPoint or am Igoing to do it?
So it actually turns out.
Ashley (Gen Z) (24:19):
I can't tell you how many times I've been in
that situation.
I had to be like, well, itsucks, because I'm putting in
all this work and this person isgoing to get this grade because
of me.
Pete (Gen X) (24:33):
But I think my experience is pretty normal.
I went to a big state school,FSU, that there was no.
There was no group projects asbad as when we're getting our
bachelor's degrees, and now itseems like most of the classes
do that.
So that seems to be agenerational shift.
What comes out on the otherside of that?
Peter (Gen Y) (24:55):
Is it to teach people to?
Pete (Gen X) (24:56):
work together and not to make your emotions more
independent.
It just makes you guys lessindependent.
Peter (Gen Y) (25:03):
Well, you could argue that our generations are
better at working together,which is an essential human
trait.
Ashley (Gen Z) (25:10):
But it's not working together when you're
taking on the whole workload andthe other person isn't doing it
.
Peter (Gen Y) (25:14):
That's just making you a good leader,
because you're like I can'tcount on this person.
I got a delegated up to this.
The few projects now I didn'thave to do as many as it sounds
like Ashley did, but the fewthat I was on I ended up by
default becoming the projectmanager of it.
I was like all right, you'reresponsible for this, You're
responsible for this, Get thisto me and I'll put it all
together, type of thing.
I guess I got that theleadership skill from that.
(25:37):
So it wasn't the direct resultof what I actually was doing as
the project, but I got thatfringe benefit of learning.
Pete (Gen X) (25:45):
Okay, so I'm going to take another step down this
political path?
That probably shouldn't.
So I think we can agree thatAshley, your generation, so Gen
Z, has more socialist leaningsthan prior generations.
That's not a disagreeablestatement, right, Do you think
(26:10):
it is in some ways tied to thatsort of evolution through school
where group projects teach youto Collectivist thinking?
Yeah, you do the work.
We know that in any groupthere's going to be someone who
carries the load.
There's others who are going tobe slackers.
Rarely is it equal, but thatsort of sets a tone for that
(26:32):
coming out.
I deserve the same grade eventhough I did a fraction of the
work.
Or am I just trying to conflatethat something that is in no
way related?
Peter (Gen Y) (26:47):
I think that that's a good thought.
Everybody gets the same grade,even though this I don't think
that is not always the case.
I don't want it to sound likeevery time there's always an
awful person, but there'sdefinitely levels.
Some people are more confidentbossing other people around and
being like you do this, you dothis.
Some people like to just betold what's my project?
I got someone tell me I'm goingto do it, and they work better
(27:09):
that way.
I can see that thatcollectivist thinking comes from
that.
I don't know how prevalent theyare.
I guess I've been out of schooltoo long to see.
Is there one single groupproject in an entire semester?
I wouldn't say that's too many.
Is every project a groupproject?
Pete (Gen X) (27:29):
I'm telling you, it wouldn't.
Ashley (Gen Z) (27:31):
My political science class, every project was
a group project.
Peter (Gen Y) (27:36):
I'm going to do a group project in a class like
that.
When I took that class it waslike read this book, write
papers on it.
Ashley (Gen Z) (27:44):
Connect tables as soon as we get there every
day, you'd be like connect yourtables.
This is going to be yourcollective semester.
Pete (Gen X) (27:51):
I'm telling you my college senior.
Right now, as far as I can tell, pretty much everything he's
doing is a group project.
Ashley (Gen Z) (27:59):
It's bizarre.
Pete (Gen X) (28:00):
I don't get it.
Ashley (Gen Z) (28:01):
I do think it's unfair because, yeah, everyone
gets the same grade and peopleare putting in different levels
of effort Because they'restudents.
It doesn't matter if I'm tryingto be a leader and be like okay
, you need to do this, they'lllaugh in your face.
You can't go tattle on theprofessor.
The professor won't care.
They'll be like figure it out,it's all messed up in my opinion
(28:23):
.
I can say how to.
Pete (Gen X) (28:26):
We're not going to fix the educational system
today.
Peter (Gen Y) (28:29):
We think that it will get us back on track.
Do you think that thatcontributes to people wanting to
be more generalized and doingdifferent things, or does that
push people in a special way,yeah, I do this.
My job is PowerPoint, pagenumber two, and that is all I'm
going to care about.
Pete (Gen X) (28:50):
Yeah, you're in it out, right, yeah.
If you're only doing a fractionof the work and you only get a
fraction of the exposure to theend result, I don't get it.
I guess the collaboration pieceis okay, wonderful, that's
important.
Maybe do it once.
(29:11):
But the rest of it should beabout survival and learning and
growth and all the things thatyou need You're only going to
benefit from if you do it onyour own.
Peter (Gen Y) (29:24):
I think it depends on the class too, like
she said her.
Political science, unless maybeyou're learning something about
government.
I guess it could work.
I had to do a group project ina project management class, so
it kind of made sense.
Ashley (Gen Z) (29:37):
I'll say the one class I also failed that I
think should have beenindividual and not group
projects was probabilitystatistics, because I was like
biostats, because at the momentI wanted to be in the health
science.
Yeah, he made us work in groupsand I feel like I wasn't
learning anything because I'mjust so focused on trying to
(30:03):
copy this person's answersversus trying to figure it out
the hard way and learning itmyself.
So I feel like in a class likethat, actually we didn't know
you failed a class, so that wemy one class, the one class I
failed because I feel like mathshould never be done in like a
(30:24):
group project.
It should always be done likeyou need to do it on your own,
so you could figure it out onyour own, not done with like a
group, because then you're goingto end up copying everyone else
and then when it's test day,you're not going to know what
you're doing.
Peter (Gen Y) (30:39):
Yeah, I think the unless it's a huge scope, which
maybe it's because classes are,professors are just.
It's easier to put a bunch ofpeople in a group and say,
alright, here's a project, run,run a bunch of numbers on a
hospital you said health statsthat grow a bunch of numbers on
a hospital and put a bigpresentation together.
That's easier than havingindividualized lessons
throughout the day.
(30:59):
But we can.
You know that's a whole otherpath we could go down.
Ashley (Gen Z) (31:03):
Yeah, alright, back to specialists and
generalists.
Pete (Gen X) (31:06):
Back to it, alright.
So Stacy waited on this and, bythe way, I just realized why we
don't have that many comments.
We switched over to Zingig andwe only have 2000 followers on
Zingig, compared to the 30something thousand followers we
have on four corner resources.
So if you're watching us now,tell your friends please make
sure you follow our Zingig page.
Maybe we'll revert back to fourcorner for a while, until
(31:28):
Zingig, you're just talking outto the ether here.
Well, I mean, yeah, we're listen, we're doing our own group
project today.
I guess we'll figure it out.
So but, stacy, thanks forweighing in with your comment on
being a specialist.
And yeah, the goal is todevelop a true like and passion
for what you're doing.
I mean, that's utopia.
(31:49):
I think and that's why I reallyliked that comment from the
TikTok guy was keep tryingthings right.
I mean, find something thatyou're enthusiastic about and
you're willing to do, whetheryou're getting paid for it or
not.
I mean, that's best casescenario.
Easier said than done, ofcourse, but that's what everyone
should should strive towards.
Peter (Gen Y) (32:11):
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Pete (Gen X) (32:15):
Alright, you want to do the other video?
Yes, so you think that's whatyou're doing.
Ashley (Gen Z) (32:24):
I don't know if you're not flying in today.
Peter (Gen Y) (32:26):
Hold on, let's see what this cuckoo pants has
to say.
TikTok Video #2 (32:30):
I don't know if she's gonna be a cuckoo pants,
but let's see, they're acid wash.
Generalist versus specialistwhich is better?
My answer might surprise you.
So a lot of people think thatbeing a generalist is better,
because if you offer more stuff,then you can serve more clients
and you can make more money.
Right?
Imagine you have a Ferrari anda part of it breaks.
You wouldn't just take it toyour common mechanic down the
(32:51):
street, would you?
No, you love that Ferrari.
You spent a whole lot of moneyon it.
You want to take good care ofit and make sure that only the
best mechanics, who knoweverything there is to know
about Ferraris, are working onit.
And that is because it isspecial.
It's the same thing withcopywriting Do you want to be
general or do you want to bespecial?
So I will always advocate forgoing deep.
Peter (Gen Y) (33:11):
You can argue then in her analogy that the
demand is not as much for aspecialist, because how?
TikTok Video #2 (33:17):
many people got .
Peter (Gen Y) (33:18):
Lamborghinis that need working on versus how many
people need to go to thatcommon mechanic.
Pete (Gen X) (33:23):
So that I mean.
Well, I mean we're talkingabout the law of supply and
demand.
I think is really what it comesdown to, and the bigger the
supply, the less premium you canattach to it, and that makes
perfect sense.
So I mean, even look at justlook at physicians, right, we
could probably go down the linein any particular industry.
(33:45):
You know, the neurosurgeonmakes a lot more money than the
general practitioner, because aneurosurgeon is does something
the general practitioner can'tdo, but for the most part, the
general practitioner, theneurosurgeon, could do all the
things the general practitionercan do, right, not maybe as well
, but there are a lot morepeople who can be a GP than
(34:06):
there are neurosurgeon.
I think that I think the needfor a neurosurgeon, is not it?
Peter (Gen Y) (34:12):
Not everybody needs a neurosurgeon and most
things can be solved by the GP.
So yeah, I think that's highrisk, high reward.
I guess is kind of what youlook at with specialists.
Pete (Gen X) (34:25):
Well, I think.
I think that pulls us back intothe college conversation a
little bit, because we have somany people going to get degrees
.
You know, ashley, let's justuse your graphic design as a
good example.
So, when you come out ofcollege, is we've placed a lot
of graphic designers over theyears from a staffing
perspective, and I'm trying torecall, I mean, maybe there's a
(34:49):
bachelor's requirement, maybe,but nobody really cares, right?
No one cares about your GPA, noone cares what you went, where
you went to school.
They want to see your portfolio, they want to see what you can
do for them, and that is goingto come down to your skill and
the tools that you use and yourknowledge, your creativity, are
you talented and do you havebreadth and depth of skill.
(35:13):
So nobody's looking at matchingup all of those graphic design
degrees, though, to the demandthat's out there, right, like
who's watching that?
And it is something that wethink about a lot at ZinGig and,
of course, we know at the riskof college is important and
(35:33):
necessary for so many people andso many things.
However, it shouldn't be thedefault answer, right, and you
know, I don't know.
What do you think about that?
Actually, with graphic design.
I mean, since you've recentlyexperienced this, do you think
that degree was valuable to you?
Ashley (Gen Z) (35:57):
Um, I feel like no.
I feel like no because most ofeverything that I was doing was
on my own time Like all theprojects that I was doing in
school, I feel like weren't goodenough to show in a portfolio.
They basically were teaching mestuff that you know I could
(36:18):
have learned just lookingthrough YouTube.
My one graphic design professorhad us looking at YouTube
videos instead of her teachingus, so she would just go around
and just offer extra help.
We learned from YouTube, so Ifeel like I could have just done
that all on my own, but I guessI just wouldn't have had her to
(36:39):
ask any questions.
So I feel like I want to sayyes and no, thank you.
Yes, as in it's a waste becauseI again could have taught
myself, but no because I feellike it's also helped me get to
where I am today, because italso helped me understand a
little bit about the marketingworld.
Pete (Gen X) (37:00):
Would you have taught yourself?
Peter (Gen Y) (37:02):
Yeah that's.
Ashley (Gen Z) (37:03):
I feel like if I was truly passionate about it
and I knew that teaching myselfcould get me a job.
Yes, but I feel like nowadayspeople just love to see a
college degree on your resume.
It's kind of just like okay, ifI teach myself, they're going
to be like oh, you didn't get acollege degree, because
(37:25):
sometimes they require bachelorsand something.
Pete (Gen X) (37:28):
Do you think that?
I mean, peter, do you thinkthat?
Because I would have said theopposite.
So when I was your age, I thinkcollege degrees were more
meaningful and necessary thanthey are now.
Right?
So you couldn't.
There was no YouTube.
You couldn't teach yourself tobe a fill in the blank, right?
I interviewed a WordPressdeveloper for one of our
(37:51):
WordPress career guide to put alittle clip on there about how
she became a WordPress developerand she taught herself.
She taught herself.
She was already a background intechnology, but she took it
upon herself.
She didn't go to school forthat structured informal
training.
And also, actually, when I wasyour age, I worked for a Fortune
(38:12):
500 company where they had apolicy that you could not get
promoted to a director levelunless you had a master's degree
.
Now, how arbitrary is thatright?
It doesn't matter if you're thebest performer and the best
manager and the best whatever.
Some arbitrary rule is going toput a ceiling on top.
I think that's absurd.
I didn't stand that company.
(38:32):
I can't support that, right,peter?
What do you think about that?
You think it's more important?
Peter (Gen Y) (38:40):
I agree with that , but I think that, Well, two
things.
Yes, a bachelor's degree,because so many people have them
.
They don't mean nearly as muchas what they used to.
Now it's like almost a master'sis what a bachelor's used to be
.
To set yourself aside, I thinka lot of times it's just an HR
or whatever manager justchecking a box, effectively Like
(39:02):
do you have this Becausecompanies said that you have to
have this?
It doesn't actually mean it.
How many times have we talkedto particularly all these
software developers, Becausethat's the one I always think of
and they're like oh well, thesoftware developer, they have to
have a degree.
Why?
Why does it matter if they knowthe language that you need them
to know and they're really goodat it?
Pete (Gen X) (39:23):
So I'll give you an answer CIO gave me years ago
when I asked that very question.
We were recruiting a lot of NETdevelopers at the time for this
team and of course there was alot who didn't have a bachelor's
degree and this companyrequired it.
Now they were in the educationspace.
So you go OK.
(39:44):
Well, that sort of goes hand inhand, but we would have to look
past some of the bestdevelopers out there simply for
that reason.
So when I asked the CIO, he saidbecause it gives me a baseline.
It gives me a baseline thatthey could meet a commitment,
they could make a commitment,keep it, it could accomplish
certain things.
And so when I don't knowanything else about this person
(40:06):
other than what I'm going tolearn in the interview from the
resume, maybe from references, Iknow that they were able to
complete that and that'smeaningful to me and that's all
that.
Comments always stuck with mebecause I went OK, because I
would ask the same question likeman we're turned out all these
great people.
Well, I had to respect that andI get where he's coming from.
Peter (Gen Y) (40:28):
And I think that's the same thing as like
getting certifications youeffectively look at it as it's
just another certification, it'ssomething on their resume that
says they can do at least this.
Like you said, baseline.
I can agree with that.
But in today's thing whereparticularly I'll continue with
(40:48):
software developer if you've gotexamples of your code out there
, with things like GitHub andeven with that, actually with a
graphic designer, you're goingto have a portfolio, you've got
examples.
So maybe that doesn't, itdoesn't mean as much anymore.
I don't think we're going tochange anything.
I think it's going to continueon, but I think that a
(41:10):
bachelor's degree should not bethe end all be all of somebody
in the job market.
Ashley (Gen Z) (41:16):
Yes 100%.
I think you should be a jack ofall trades.
Peter (Gen Y) (41:24):
I think that you should probably err on that side
.
If you want to get specializedin something, you just have to
be a keep in mind like.
If you're going to specializein this one specific technology,
you can yes, you can command ahigher pay, but it's also going
to make you a little bit moresusceptible to market changes.
There's an example.
I remember talking to thisdeveloper and he specialized in
(41:48):
I believe it was called coldfusion, which was a language or
a framework from that's nolonger used, and he was having a
hard time finding it because hespecialized really heavily in
that and he didn't really branchout at all.
He was.
Companies weren't using it asmuch anymore, so he was not in
nearly high demand as he used tobe.
(42:09):
So I kind of think that that isan example of like.
If you're going to do that, youshould not shut your mind off
from other avenues.
Pete (Gen X) (42:17):
So that's such an important element of this and
I'm really glad you brought itup because we kind of got away
from the graphic designdiscussion Actually mentioned AI
.
Ai is changing all the rules.
So even if you were the bestgraphic designer using the tools
that were available to you ayear ago, there's a whole
(42:39):
different set of options rightnow that can create faster,
better maybe not better right,but the same quality, much
faster, with less effort, withless knowledge needed in order
to do it.
We see that with programmingright now.
So that's a scary thing aboutspecialization if you're not
(43:02):
open to change and adapting,because the world's changing
whether you want it to or not.
Peter (Gen Y) (43:12):
In nature, it's the generalists who are the ones
who survive.
It's great to find a niche, butif any little thing changes in
the environment, like those arethe ones who are the first to be
most susceptible.
Ashley (Gen Z) (43:23):
Humans are generalists, so that's a good
way to put it, Peter.
Pete (Gen X) (43:27):
Well, and from a generational standpoint.
I think, my generation is goingto.
It's going to be tough, becauseif you're not inclined to take
advantage of these newtechnologies and I think it's
probably 50-50, right, somepeople I mean, if you're my age,
you could think of yourself asyoung, with lots to learn still
(43:50):
and things to do, or you couldthink of yourself as old.
Right, it's definitely amindset.
A mindset, yeah.
But those who have closed offand said I'm never going to have
to worry about that, I'mtowards the end of my career
Well, if you have five years togo, let alone 10, it's going to
look entirely different.
I mean, we already know in somerespects graphic design being
(44:13):
one we're writing, we talkedabout that too that entire
industry or profession hasalready changed and the rules
are being rewritten constantlyat a very rapid pace.
So if the younger you arementally and being willing to
adapt, the better off you'regoing to be, and if you're not,
it's going to be really hard foryou to survive in the
(44:36):
professional space.
Yeah, absolutely.
Ashley (Gen Z) (44:38):
Yeah, 100%.
Pete (Gen X) (44:41):
What else are we going to cover before I?
Ashley (Gen Z) (44:46):
mean, I think that was it.
I think we all made our pointspretty clear.
Pete (Gen X) (44:51):
I miss our, I miss our.
I'm not going to call it a fan,no, our audience.
They're probably notnecessarily fans, but we're our
fans.
Ashley (Gen Z) (44:59):
Engaging with our audience.
Pete (Gen X) (45:01):
Our audience.
Thank you, that is our crewCrew.
Nice Pete, we need, you know weneed, we need them back.
So we'll move on.
Peter (Gen Y) (45:09):
We'll answer your questions after the fact here.
If you're listening to this,send us.
Send us your questions so wecan address them on our next
week's.
Ashley (Gen Z) (45:17):
Yeah, should we do another Q and A?
Yeah, we've got.
Peter (Gen Y) (45:21):
I know we've got some building up where you
haven't addressed yet becausethey didn't really fit with the
theme.
Pete (Gen X) (45:26):
So, all right, we can do that.
We can do that, all right.
Well then, I guess it's goodbyefor now.
Ashley (Gen Z) (45:32):
Goodbye for now.
Peter (Gen Y) (45:33):
See you, see you guys, we'll see you next Tuesday
.
See you next Tuesday.
Ashley (Gen Z) (45:37):
All right, all right.
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