February 5, 2024 • 37 mins
Join hosts Pete and Ricky on this episode as they tackle the pressing question: Do college majors matter?
Starting off, Pete and Ricky discuss a Georgetown University's recent study on the correlation between college majors and paychecks. Trust us, you don't want to miss this!
As a political science grad turned career chameleon, Pete knows all about degrees not guaranteeing jobs in their specific fields, and it's a story many of us share. This episode explores the pivotal decisions young adults face when choosing their academic paths, highlighting the impact of such choices on their financial and professional futures. It's a candid look at the tools and guidance necessary to navigate these waters and a must-listen for anyone concerned about the next generation's success.
Pete and Ricky also talk about how different disciplines have painted contrasting economic landscapes—from the sciences and tech to the arts and humanities—and what drives students toward one or the other. By highlighting the stark pay gaps from the starting line to mid-career peaks, they raise questions about education's role in today's society. They share how young minds can prepare for jobs that may not even exist yet and urge listeners to explore the changing dynamics of the job market and the emergence of automation.
Additional Resources:
🧠 WANT TO LEARN MORE? Be sure to subscribe and check out https://zengig.com/
👋 FOLLOW PETE NEWSOME ONLINE:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petenewsome/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PeteNewsome
👋 FOLLOW RICKY BAEZ ONLINE:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/efrainrickybaez/
Blog Articles: https://www.baezco.com/baezco-blog
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to the Finding Careers N Podcast.
I'm Pete Newsom, joined byRicky Byas today.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Happy Friday, pete, I'm doing great.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
We're back for another show.
This is a controversial one, Ithink, ricky, because we're
going to weigh in and give someopinions and with some facts too
, about people's choices.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Oh, that's what you meant by controversial.
I thought you was talking aboutthe Bill's game last week, so
that's not what we're talkingabout here.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
No, the only controversy there is whether
Taylor Swift should be shownconstantly every time Travis
Kelsey does something and.
I'm in the no crowd on that.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, if that's controversial so be it All right
.
You know what, now that JasonKelsey is part of the crowd, I'm
looking forward to seeing JasonKelsey go crazy whenever he's
not playing.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
So you're okay with that.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
That was hilarious.
You're just showing up.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
We're moving to Steve Dott.
I just want to watch football.
Ricky, I don't want to seeTaylor Swift.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I don't want to see that guy.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I mean it's fine if he's in uniform, but I'm not
subscribing to that deal.
So I'm a big Ravens fan, I'lltell you that.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
And I think I'm not alone with many guys across the
country.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I think there's a general battle being Probably.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, yes, well, yeah .
So I'm doing great, pete,considering that my Bill's
completely lost.
So, yeah, anyway, we're good.
I didn't know you were a Ravensfan.
I'll check in with you nextweek to see how you're doing.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I am this weekend.
I'm, you know, I need one ofthose bumper series.
I'm a fan of the Buccaneers andanyone who's playing Kansas
City.
As long as they were dating.
I like that, I like it.
We are going to talk aboutsomething I will say is more
important than then.
Then then the you know who'sdating in the NFL.
But it is about someone'schoices, and specifically the
(01:47):
choices that someone makes whenthey go to college, and not
whether they should go tocollege.
It's a different issuealtogether and we can and have
talked about that.
But this is about whethercollege degrees matter matter to
your profession, matter to yourfinancial life, matter to your
future.
So what's your?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
short answer to that question College degrees matter
less now than when they did 30,40 years ago.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Not whether they matter whether oh got it, that's
right.
That's right.
The choice of degree.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Honestly, I don't think it matters.
Pete At the majority.
I don't.
I truly don't think it matters.
I've seen people in positionswho do well in those positions,
that have a degree that hasnothing to do with what they're
currently doing in their career.
So I don't think it matters.
Well the data.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
The data would would disagree with that.
I will tell you.
So we'll talk a little bitabout a study from from
Georgetown that was university.
It just came out.
They should know about thesethings and the the the math
indicates that your your choiceof major is going to have a big
impact on your financial futureand how much you're going to
(02:53):
earn.
So we we see lots of studiesabout whether a college degree
impacts earning over time, butthis is about the specific major
and I I think that you knowthis is worthy of exploration.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
But that would only so.
That means that these stats areonly.
It's only good if the peoplewho went to school for a
specific field are currentlyworking in that specific field,
right?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, I think it's a generalization, right.
There's exceptions to everyrule, so you can go to school
for one thing and end up doingsomething else.
So let's just start there,because that is very common,
right.
We know that happens a lot.
It happens to me.
I'm, I'm, I have a degree inpolitical science.
I am not a political scientist.
Okay, I don't work in politicsand in fact when I was in a
(03:39):
student night, I don't eventhink I paid attention to
politics outside of the student.
I was really in the studentgovernment.
I think that's how I ended uppicking that major.
But I'm a in staffing,recruiting, you know, the career
world of careers.
Not, not, not, not a politicalscientist.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So I got my, my bachelor's in business and I
have my uh master's in humanresources and I actually I'm
involved in both.
Right, it's I.
I am in human resources and Ihelp businesses go from here to
there.
But, pete, I got a question foryou, so why, if you didn't go
into the political field, whydid you pick political science
(04:14):
as your major?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Why does an 18 year?
old do anything.
My mindset at that age, myscope, was limited.
I didn't have a whole lot ofexperience.
I didn't know what I wanted todo.
Now that's one of the thingsthat we're focused a lot on, as
you know, is helping youngpeople make those decisions and
(04:38):
giving them the right tools andinformation to arm them to do
that.
But I didn't have that.
It was go to college, get a job.
The in between, there was no onereally focusing on that for me
and I wasn't focused on that.
So you could say and you'd beright that that's my
responsibility.
As I said a minute ago, myperspective was limited and I
(05:00):
didn't have a great resource ortools to use to see all the
different options.
And even today, I think that,even though the information is
all out there on the internet,if someone's willing to do their
own research, they can come upwith a lot of answers.
There's aptitude tests.
We have a recent blog listingthe 10 most popular ones that we
wrote, because we know that theinformation exists.
(05:23):
But I don't think the people incharge of providing that
information to those who need itmost and so this isn't to take
a shot at career counselors andadvisors.
I don't think there's a greatprocess for students getting led
down the path of making achoice.
It's going to be right now.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Now it's, I'm going to ask you a question and the
answer to this question is goingto answer what you just threw
out there.
Now, you went to college rightafter high school, right?
So I did not.
I went to the Marine Corpsright after high school and I
spent four years in that amazingenvironment and that cleared my
vision of what I wanted to do,right?
But I spent four years there,went all over the world and then
(06:03):
came back and I was reallyclear about where I wanted my
direction in life to go, and Ireally think that's important.
That it's.
I know it doesn't work foreverybody, but I know for me
that's the best possible thing Icould have done because, like
you said, at 18 years old, onceyou're done with high school,
you don't know anything aboutlife.
What are you going to make aselection for?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I mean you've gone from not being in charge of your
, of your life, right, even ifyou're a child, up until that
point where you leave home.
You've had parents who directyou, guide you.
You've had high school teacherswho tell you what to do and
you're locked into that setting.
But then you go out and saymake a decision, that's going to
(06:45):
impact the rest of your life.
Yeah Well, I mean really therest of your life, because, even
though you could say, becausehow you earn your living, how
much you earn is, is going tostay with you until retirement,
that's going to determine yourlifestyle.
And listen, it's not all aboutincome, but that should be a
consideration.
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
It, it, I mean.
Why else would you go tocollege if not to put yourself
in a better position financiallyin the future?
Right, I, I, I don't know ofany other reason to go to
college than for that right.
Well, I mean it's.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I mean, that's that is it, it, it you know, learning
to, to develop expertise insomething, to, to gain knowledge
that you can then apply to makethe world a better place for
yourself and others.
I think it's most pure.
Look, I'd like to believethat's why you're going to
college but it is a goodquestion, right?
(07:41):
If you took a survey and maybewe should take the survey of of
of you know a thousand, you knowhigh school seniors and say who
are planning to go to college,why, I would.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I wonder what those answers would be, I think they
might say no, because the waythe world is today.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Wait.
The question is why are yougoing to college?
Well, I mean, if they say no tothat, that's a logical answer.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Why do you want to go to college?
No, okay, you need to go tocollege.
Why, yeah, why are you going tocollege?
Yeah, that's the question.
I wonder why, why did you go tocollege?
Right, why did you go tocollege?
So honestly I so why did I go?
I went to because I wanted todo that I wanted.
I knew that the Marine Corpswas not something I wanted to
make a career of, because Ididn't know if I was going to
make it to 20 years right, andthis was before the Second Gulf
(08:30):
War happened.
Right, well, operational andand doing freedom.
So I don't I.
I didn't know if I was going tobe home to enjoy retirement, so
I wanted something to put me ina great position to earn a
really good living and notstruggle from paycheck to
paycheck.
That, honestly, that's thereason I went to college.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
And, truth be told, I think that is why most people
go to college.
I think they're so, and that'skind of the point of this
episode.
If you, if you go to collegefor your financial future, then
you should be making a choice indegree that it's going to lead
to a good outcome.
But what the evidence indicates, and what we know to just be
(09:08):
true, is that there's a lot ofdegrees that don't really tie to
financial security and and it'snot going to help people thrive
.
So let's, let's back up alittle bit to go forward and
talk about the different typesof majors.
There's, there's hundreds,thousands of majors that exist,
but they generally fall into alimited number of categories,
(09:30):
and those categories are STEM,right, science and technology.
There's business education,health, humanities and liberal
arts, right, those kind of getblended together and, and what
we're talking about, there aredegrees in literature and
writing and history andphilosophy and then and then
social sciences right, mypolitical science degree was was
(09:51):
in the school of socialsciences at Florida State where
I went.
But then the next question iswhat do those qualify you to do?
And you can, you can point tosome majors in sciences and
healthcare and engineering,right, if you go to school and
get a bachelor's degree inelectrical engineering, you're
qualified.
You're on the path to be anelectrical engineer.
(10:11):
Right, it's very easy.
If you go to school and get adegree in political science,
then I'll pick on myself withthis You're not qualified as a
political scientist.
When you dissu when yougraduate, in fact, I would argue
you have very base levelknowledge of politics and and
the science thereof when yougraduate and that doesn't really
(10:34):
translate into a job.
It doesn't translate into.
You know much in way ofeconomic.
You know benefit.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
But that begs the question, right it's.
That's why I like the idea ofthe survey.
If you give the surveys today,why are you going to college?
What is the reason?
If it isn't for financial gain,right, and if it isn't for an
18 year old to set themselves upfor the rest of their lives,
why would they ever pick adegree that would put them at
(11:03):
the bottom of that financiallist?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
That these are individual questions to be
answered right?
I think a lot of it does comedown to the guidance they're
receiving.
Not looking forward, this isnot.
You know, there are a lot of 18year olds who are anomalies
with this right, who have a goodfeel for what they want to do
in a passion for something, andthey're and they're thinking of
(11:26):
their future.
But, as a general statement,the younger you are, the harder
it is to think of the long-termimpact, unless someone is giving
you the tools to do that.
Right.
You live in the moment.
We know that's what youngpeople do.
Right.
They live for the day and Idon't know that the right
questions are being asked.
The right things are beingconsidered.
What is your aptitude?
(11:47):
Right?
What is going to be valuable in, not just today, over time and
these things are changingrapidly right, with AI and
remote work and all the shiftsthat are happening with
technology and just society as awhole.
Right now, jobs that existed,that looked promising even as a
college freshman, some entireprofession is completely just in
(12:12):
the past year or two.
So, looking forward,anticipating to use a sports
analogy, anticipating where thepuck is going right the hockey
analogy not where it is, todayis more important than ever.
So let me show you a graphicreal quick.
If you're watching, this willmake sense to you.
If you're listening, I'll justexplain it.
(12:33):
And this is from the Georgetownstudy that says not all
bachelor's degrees are createdequal.
So if you look at the entrylevel, starting compensation
from a STEM major 43,000 to arts, humanities and liberal arts at
29,000, right out of the gate.
(12:53):
What a massive difference.
And that gap doesn't close.
I mean, that's the rest of thestory.
Those who start ahead are goingto stay ahead, generally
speaking.
I mean, look, you can.
There's exceptions.
I won't keep saying that we'retalking playing the odds here,
looking at the data and the datavery clearly indicates that
(13:14):
your choice of major is going tosignificantly impact yeah, but
I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
It's exactly how you said, early on in your life,
early on in your career you'renot really thinking about that
financial impact in the future.
Now, some people do, somepeople do.
And now I want to jump onsomething you just said, because
I know it depends on the person, how the person is guided.
It also depends on the persongrew up.
If you grew up in anenvironment where your great
(13:41):
great grandfather was a doctoror a union steward, guess where
you're going to be?
Maybe a doctor or a unionsteward, unless you want to be
the black sheep of the family,right, but but it's, it's.
You're right.
I don't think students orpeople at 18, not that they
don't have the right grasp Idon't think they don't have the
(14:01):
right guidance from mentors toput them down the road of what
they need to be thinking about25 years later.
Well, we're trying to bringlight to that.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That's that's that's what that's what this is all
about.
So here's another graphic, Ifthis is, showing the lowest
paying majors in education, artsand the social work fields that
we just showed were the loweststarting points.
Now, keep in mind this is not a.
This is not a.
This is mid career.
Mid career not starting.
Early childhood education$39,000.
(14:29):
That's the bottom of the list.
And you and you look, andthat's an appealing major to a
lot of people, right?
I mean, who doesn't want tohelp children with education?
What a noble thing.
So let me let me just go onrecord and say I'm not saying
this is how it should be, farfrom it.
What I'm saying is this is howit is and that's the.
That's the world we have to payattention to.
(14:50):
That's reality.
So sure, 42,000 mid career,42,000 mid career it's a really
tough way to to to live, ricky.
It's really a 42,000 isn't alot of money in in in our, in
our world?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I repeat, but then you would have to guess or you
would have to assume that ifsomebody goes in into those,
those type of fields like earlychildhood education, you're not
going to go in there to be rich.
So you're going in there for adifferent reason than financial
gain.
You're going in there.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It's a difference between being rich and being you
know, I don't even think that'sa big difference and yeah,
that's my point All yeah.
That's my point.
So so, so back it up evenfurther.
You go to college, right, andwe, if we, if we believe and
we'll cooperate on this theoryto some degree that you go to
(15:40):
college to benefit yourselffinancially, right, they're your
profession and you choose oneof these degrees and career
paths, you're not accomplishingyour objective.
In fact, you could argue, Iwould argue, that you're making
it even worse by going tocollege in the worst way.
Now, that's what we're talkingabout today, but, but maybe,
(16:01):
maybe the way to phrase it inthis context is if you decide to
go to college, you shouldconsider the degree and how it's
going to impact your financialfuture, because you're paying to
go to college.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I, I, I agree.
Right, when you go buy a car,you don't just buy one, you test
drive them, you take a look atdifferent dealers where you're
going to get the best deal.
This should not be anydifferent.
But I think again, it starts athigh school, it starts at
college and it starts at home.
I, I agree with you.
We are asking the wrongquestions, we are, we are having
the wrong conversations.
(16:35):
Right, because and I've heardcounselors say this I've heard
counselors say you pick whateveryour heart desires.
I'm like, wait a minute.
Right, if I want to be a Legomaster, right, I don't know if
that's going to bring me anymoney, right, unless I come out
on the show.
Right, and that's what my heartdesires.
Right, look, I'm a Star Warsfan, pete.
Right, I could be a Star Warsfan as a career.
(16:56):
That's not going to, that's notgoing to sustain a living, and
I don't know who would marry me,right, if that was my goal in
life.
Well, I mean, you already gotsomeone to marry you despite
your Star Wars obsession, so Ithink that's okay.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
So, okay, let me, let me show you what, let me show
you one more graphic that thatsort of supports us and then
we'll move on.
And that is where we're goingto talk about, like which you
know mid-career for thedifferent groupings of of
degrees right, call it.
You know schools that you couldgo to that we mentioned before.
So STEM mid-career 76,000average versus teaching and
(17:33):
serving Again what.
There couldn't be a more nobleprofession than teaching young
people right that this is wrong.
Wait, wait, it's real.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It's wrong because it should be more.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Okay, let me phrase it differently, not the way it
should be.
This is how it is.
That reality can't, shouldn'tbe ignored, but it is ignored
and I think that's Somethingthat we try to change.
So the difference between ifyou're a STEM major mid-career,
you're making seventy sixthousand dollars if you're a
teacher.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
So let's pause for a quick P.
Let's because if we're thinkingabout and and you alluded to
that earlier if we're thinkingabout, let's have the right
conversations About college.
That would help people in thefuture.
If STEM is hot right now, do wehave data to show that it's
gonna continue to be hot five,ten, fifteen years from now?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I think there is certainly a lot of data and I
won't say data right.
There's a lot of projectionsbased on where the world is
going, where we believe it'sgoing, and these things are.
You know their estimates, weknow that they're not until they
happen, but you know all of thedata, or all of these do show
that stem Degrees are going tobe why?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I ask right?
Because 20 years ago If a kidwas to tell the council or their
parents I want to get a degreeand to make video games, there
would have been left that rightand today that's a really good
profession.
People make a lot of moneydoing that.
So I guess what I'm saying is,when you start doing these
studies, when you start havingthese conversations, don't think
(19:04):
about what's hot right now.
You really have to take ananalytical view of what the
future is going to look like,where this country is going and
what's going to be hot Later,because it's gonna take you some
time for you to get theeducation, to get the experience
, for you to be competent in thefield that you're in.
You just have to make sure thatwhatever it's it's, it's it's
(19:24):
it's the biggest paying Notpaying but paying career now is
gonna continue to do so later onlike what's obsolete now that
20 years ago was relevant.
I'm trying to think here now?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, well, what's operator now operator?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah, a telephone operator 40 years, over 50 years
ago, an elevator person right,and in 20 years from now, I
don't think we're gonna haveuber or cabs, because it's all
gonna be automated.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, there's a lot of manual labor that's been
replaced by automation.
We know that AI right now isreplacing a lot of knowledge
work.
That's probably the biggestthing to pay attention to, and
but we, you know, so we have tomake decision.
We should be making decisionsbased on all of the knowledge,
yeah, that's available to ustoday all the data, all the
(20:12):
expectations, predictions,what's happening and Do you
think, where do you think, thatguidance is coming from today,
if it's coming at all?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
today, I think a counselor's advice is less
relevant than what it was before, because right now, students
have access to a lot moreinformation outside of school
and they get to see online, theyget to see in YouTube and and
sometimes it paints are a falsepicture of success.
Yes, yes, I've heard what inthe past couple of months two
(20:43):
kids, two kids that my, my, myten year olds are friends with.
They want to be a social mediainfluence when they grow up.
What the heck is that?
Right, I mean, and I'm surethat there's a degree for that.
But I think right now we have tobe as adults, as as mentors to
young people coming into theworkforce.
We have to be really deliberate, really careful on the advice
(21:06):
we give and we have to bethoughtful about what advice,
what road we put them on.
And that's what I'm glad we'redoing this episode, because
that's what we're looking to doRight now.
Right, be thoughtful about whatyou want to do going forward.
I just wish this kind ofrationale was live and high
schools and colleges and at homeRight, because that's the
biggest influence right over athome.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
So Well, parents, and I'm guilty of this, I won't
speak for you, but that it'svery common for us to Give
advice and in guidance andmentorship, based on our limited
perspective too.
Now we're looking at thisbecause of the business that
we're in, but otherwise Iprobably wouldn't be thinking
(21:48):
too much about these things.
Right, I would give guidance.
It Was comfortable to me and myown experiences where we're
trying now to look at this froma macro standpoint, right, and I
can tell the kids, my kids,that I, I don't want them to do
what I don't know you do, I wantthem to.
You do n't.
Okay, absolutely not.
No, I know I want them to find.
When we talked about theconcept of Iki guy, of course,
(22:11):
and some career counselors don'tlike this.
They say it's unscientific, andI was even told not too long
ago by a college guidance officedirector that we shouldn't be
encouraging young Too much outthere.
Okay, I think the opposite,right, but that that you should
(22:32):
find something that you'reinterested in.
Okay now, so that's the easypart of this.
I want to be an X, right, Iwant to have some of pick some
obscure degree and that's adifferent show With it that
could list all the just degreesthat are meaningless in the
professional world, right?
What we're talking about todayreally is the choice you make is
(22:54):
going to impact your, yourfinancial, the financial outcome
you know for your professionalcareer, right, but find
something that you're interestedin.
That's huge, and I do encouragemy own kids to do that, even if
it takes time.
Spend as much time as you needto.
You have a long runway.
If you look at your, youmentioned 40 years of working.
Well, doesn't it make sense toInvest as much time early?
(23:17):
Yeah, set yourself on the rightcourse for that, right, we all
rush to get out there.
I have a 20.
My oldest son just turned 22and For the past couple of years
he's I know he's felt pressureto arrive at this Decision, and
knowledge of this is what I'msupposed to do and really want
to do.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
We have an experience right.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, I think it's self-imposed, it's not coming
from me.
But you, you look, I felt thatpressure when I was at age.
I felt I'm, I need to get outin the world and produce, and
the clock's ticking and you can.
You feel that way, but realityis you're, you're, you're young,
right?
Let, like you, take as muchtime, invest in at your
(24:03):
education.
I Don't expect it just to cometo you.
You have to work for it, youhave to put forth the effort.
That's different.
But find something that youreally want to do Now.
That's not the only part of theequation.
That would be nice if it were,because then we wouldn't be
having this discussion.
Find something that you haveaptitude for.
Find something you're good at.
Now that's harder, right, Iwant to be a pro basketball
(24:26):
player.
Well, I can only jump twoinches and I'm not fast.
Nope, not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
So let me ask you this.
So I'm thinking about myself,because, while you're saying
that, I'm thinking because no,come on.
See, you killed my dream man.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
You killed my dream.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
No.
So when my son he's 10, he andI have conversations now about
what he wants to do when hegrows up.
Right Now, he wants to be avideo game.
He wants to design video games.
That's why I know so much aboutit right now.
All right, let me help him downthat path.
But I started thinking what ifhe came to me and says hey, I
want to be a standup comedian,that's what I want to do?
And the back of my mind I'mgoing to be like that's a hard
(25:07):
thing to really make good moneyon, right, because I'm thinking
about his future, but at thesame time I don't want to kill
his dream, right, I want to beas supportive as possible with
his dream.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
He's 10.
Yeah, he's young, yeah, butthen I don't know if you know of
Dave Chappelle's story.
Are you the best comedian alivetoday?
All right, A lot of peoplethink that I'm in that camp.
He started at about that age.
He was a teenager, going toopen my standups and performing
how many.
My question would be to yourson what are you willing to do
(25:41):
about it?
If you say it, but don't backit up with action, well, that's
a good way, that's tough.
But if he says I'm going todedicate myself and I think
you're using this example ofstandup comedian as hey, this is
sort of an unlikely thing toactually happen.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
It's hard to just do it there.
Really hard yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
It's hard wrote, but I would be so proud of that and
I would feel that what a gift ifyou really know what you want
to do and you're willing to putyourself on the put it all on
the line and go all in.
To me, that's what we'retalking about.
That's the goal of you know,find something that you're
willing to be the absolute bestyou can be at and dedicate
(26:24):
yourself to it 24-7.
Well that's my point.
No, I'm at.
No, no, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
But my point with this is is that back in the day,
I'm thinking the wrong adviceis given to students early on,
our children is because theparents are not thinking about
what they want to do.
The parents are thinking abouthow they're going to be
financially stable, going on,you know, going on later in life
.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, fear we're afraid of.
You know, right, we're makingdecisions on fear.
And yes, as a parent, youshould lay out all the pros and
cons the best you can, or helpyour child, you know, have
exposure to all those pros andcons.
Great, you want to be astand-up comedian?
Here's the stats.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I'm glad you want it.
Here's how it typically worksout.
How bad do you want it?
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Right, yeah, how bad do you want it.
And are you funny?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I mean it's funny looking.
That's just where it happens.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I mean, yeah, but you know and this is reality has to
set in.
Like I said, I want to be a probasketball player.
Well, I'm not good atbasketball, so it doesn't matter
how hard I work, there'slimitations that have to be
acknowledged, and that's thesecond part, right?
So it's what do you want to do?
What's your aptitude for it?
And then, what is the worldvalue?
Right?
Does the world need stand-upcomedians?
(27:32):
Well, it needs some, not a lot.
That's an important part there.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
That's something that , throughout this entire 29
minutes of recording, we havenot touched on.
What does the world value nowversus what's the world going to
value later on?
Because 30 years ago, nobodyknew what a social media
strategist was, nobody knew whata social media manager was,
nobody knew what an app was, anapp developer, right?
(27:59):
So that's what the world valueis today, right?
So I guess that's what we'resaying, pete.
What we're saying is it's inorder for you to make a decision
on what type of degree you'regoing to go for, if you're going
to go for one at all, you haveto figure out what the value of
that degree, of that skill set,is going to be in 20 years.
Not five, not two.
(28:20):
20 years, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
And that's hard to do .
This is all hard, it's all easystuff and it's illogical to
some degree.
Right, the world valueseducation, the world values
teachers, but the financial?
But you can't draw thatfinancial equation to it, right?
Speaker 2 (28:38):
It doesn't value it.
It doesn't value it financially.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I mean well right, that should value it.
It doesn't value it financially.
There's some contradictions inall of this.
You have to go into it withyour eyes wide open hard thing
to do at a young age.
I hate to use the word should,right, because whether you
(29:01):
should or not is irrelevant towhat actually happens, and this
doesn't happen enough.
So you make a great point.
You need to look in the future,but there has to be some method
by which you can do that, andwe currently are today.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Something Josie and I were looking at.
We went to Europe last year,right, we went on the cruise to
Europe and we fell in love withBarcelona.
So you know, when you go to aplace and you fall in love with
it, you're like, oh, I wonderhow much it would cost to live
here.
We started thinking about it.
So my wife is a registerednurse.
She's a nurse case manager Nowa nurse here, which is
considered in the healthindustry.
(29:36):
Right, you could be makingmid-career anywhere between 80
to 130 thousand dollars a year.
You know how much that is inSpain 30 grand, 30 thousand
dollars in Spain.
Right, it is a different worldout there, right?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Because they don't need nurses.
There's.
No, it's a mean, because it'sgenerally a subplot.
It is.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Over there, remember, over there it's the medical
field is socialized, right.
They have social medicine overthere, right?
So that's what I'm saying Ifyou're somebody who, you may
think about moving somewhereelse in the future.
You got to make sure that theskillset that you're dedicating
your time and effort to incollege is also transferable
outside of the US borders,Because more and more people are
(30:17):
leaving the US and now you gotto think globally.
The Internet, Mark Zuckerbergand Elon Musk are making the
world smaller, right, Smallerright.
So you got to think about theborders beyond America and just
really try to map out your lifeas best you can.
I think that's what we shouldsay Think about your life.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And we've.
This seems like it's been sortof a bad news message in many
respects, but here's a differentway of looking at it, or an
additional consideration, ratheryour major doesn't necessarily
translate into your professionand what you're going to be
doing and your financialwell-being.
It just what we're really justtalking about is that major may
(31:02):
not lead to those opportunitiesat all and you may end up in a
completely different place,right?
My own example, being the easyone to talk about, is what I do
has nothing to do with mycollege major.
And you could argue and this iswhere I struggle a little bit
that well, I learned things thattranslate right, that were
(31:23):
still valuable critical thinkingskills.
That's always the go-to.
You learn critical thinkingskills, hi, betty.
I learned critical thinkingskills when I had to pay my own
bills, right, that's when Ilearned critical thinking skills
not when I was in college, Ilearned how to have a good time.
I learned how to beat the system.
I didn't take it serious.
(31:44):
I would love to go to collegenow.
There's so much that I wouldlike to invest in it from a
knowledge standpoint.
So I think in many casescollege is wasted on.
The people who were there saythat for me.
You can you do if you.
You don't have to, you're notpigeonholed.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
And Pete.
And here's the thing right,because to me I would.
I don't think I would havetaken college as seriously as I
did had I not joined themilitary right after high school
.
I think if I would have gone tocollege right after high school
, I would have just partied Likea lot of people do today, right
Party, and I wouldn't havetaken it seriously.
But I I saw what life was likeand I'm like whoa, I have to do
(32:21):
this right.
So that's why I'm a bigproponent If my son comes to me
and says hey, daddy, I don'twant to go to college right away
.
Gotcha, papa, what do you wantto do?
I'm going to guide yousomewhere.
You've started businesses.
You go work somewhere, learn totrade, go to the military.
But you got to do something tokind of part.
You know to, to, to, to startthat spark, light, that fire in
(32:42):
you.
But I can't tell them how to dothat right.
That's why, because I've met,I've got a neighbor who's hell
bent on making sure his kids gostraight to college.
Uf Gators, baby, that's whatthey are right after high school
, right, and that's all he talksabout.
But I'm like, is this yourdream, or is this their dream.
I mean, let's have a realconversation about who's dream.
This is right.
(33:02):
You don't know if they want todo that, and I know he's like
Ricky.
Look at them every everySaturday during college football
.
They're all dressed.
I'm like, no, you dress themRight, they're just following
your league, right.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
So I mean I guess this is for parents out there.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Right, it's, yes, it's good for you to be proud,
it's good for you to have yourkids follow in your footsteps,
but kids are vulnerable, they'rereally vulnerable.
So I think it's better for youto take a step back and, instead
of driving the career car, youlet them drive and you just the
GPS, let them put in thosecorners and you get them there
the safest, most efficient waypossible.
(33:37):
That is the best thing we cando as parents and the best thing
we can do as mentors.
And let's let me talk aboutmentors not just in college, not
just in high school work aswell.
You've got some senior leadersat work who can give young
professionals who don't have thething at home to be able to
help them, guide them in theright place.
So and we have- we.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
that's a bring up our podcast.
We did on that.
We did a podcast aboutmentorships.
So check it out, listen to it.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
You give a lot of Henry agrees he's behind you.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
He agrees, he's.
Yeah, the dog is enthralled.
But here's the last piece ofadvice that I'll give on this
note is on zen gigcom and we'lllink this in the show notes.
We have the most popular careeraptitude or career personality
tests I mentioned earlier.
We'll link those.
Some are free, some, some youhave to pay for, but worth
(34:28):
exploring so you can start tothink about these things.
Right, and listen.
As a parent of four, I'm noteven though I spend a lot of
time thinking about this and,yeah, I'd say I have some level
of expertise in this space.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
You've been there, you've done this for my old
career, you can stop and companyowner.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
but my kids don't want to listen to me.
They don't think I know whatI'm talking about.
You know I'm dad, they're rightto them.
So send them into, you know,don't.
Don't rely on your ownknowledge, your own biases, you
know, for these things.
Get some independentperspective on this.
These tests are quick and easyand a lot of people rely on them
(35:08):
very heavily and the quality ofthem.
I'll let you, you know, makethose determinations for
yourself, but we'll, we'll linkthat, you know, or you can just
Google it career personalitytests on zen gig and we have 10
real quick, growing up, whetheryou want to be so growing up,
whether you want to be.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
once you got to adulthood, what was your first?
Speaker 1 (35:25):
love in career.
It wasn't a recruiter.
I didn't dress as a recruiterfor Halloween, as I often said.
That's a good question.
I really, I really don't know.
I would say probably theearliest memory and this is
going to sound cliche but Iloved football and I had
pictures of football players allover all over my room and big
Minnesota Vikings fan Okay, gotit Huge Vikings fan.
(35:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, my room was purple withViking stuff over, yeah, but
that's about as much, yeah,otherwise yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I just want to be a football player.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
What a shock right An American football player.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Growing up, I wanted to be a pilot.
I was in through all withaviation and through all with
that.
I wanted to be a fighter pilot.
So bad and I.
I had my mind set I'm going togo to, you know, high school,
college and then be a pilot.
And then one Christmas that was13 years old, uncle came to me
and said you know, so I hear youwant to be a pilot on my get.
You're blind.
(36:20):
You can't be a pilot withglasses.
You do this.
I'm like all right.
He said it, just like that,right.
And I'm like completely shot mydream.
He was right At that point intime.
You needed to have 2020 oncorrect division.
So okay.
So five years later, I joinedthe military, I'm in the Marine
Corps, I'm on a ship and I runinto pilots.
I have glasses.
(36:40):
And I asked him I'm like,excuse me, sir, so it's so.
I asked it's like, oh, that wasyears ago.
Now we got.
Now we have all kinds ofequipment that you could.
You need 2020, but it's okay ifit's corrected.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I'm like, dammit, uncle Dino right Dream was
killed unnecessarily so thatsaid.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
That said people if you have a nephew that has an
amazing dream, right, Don't killthat dream.
For that nephew, man, Let metell you, do not kill it.
Technology will advance forwhatever limitations he may have
at that point.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
That is such necessary advice to tell adults
don't crush your dreams.
Perfect, and Jeff, if you needto hear that, you need to move
on, all right, well, thank youfor listening.
Rick, you think he was alwaysdrive safe.
We would love for you to rateus five stars, if you could.
That would be awesome, and yeahfollow your dreams next week.
Perfect, thanks, clegg.
You're listening to the Finding Careers N Podcast.
I'm Pete Newsom, joined byRicky Byas today.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Happy Friday, pete, I'm doing great.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
We're back for another show.
This is a controversial one, Ithink, ricky, because we're
going to weigh in and give someopinions and with some facts too
, about people's choices.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Oh, that's what you meant by controversial.
I thought you was talking aboutthe Bill's game last week, so
that's not what we're talkingabout here.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
No, the only controversy there is whether
Taylor Swift should be shownconstantly every time Travis
Kelsey does something and.
I'm in the no crowd on that.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, if that's controversial so be it All right
.
You know what, now that JasonKelsey is part of the crowd, I'm
looking forward to seeing JasonKelsey go crazy whenever he's
not playing.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
So you're okay with that.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
That was hilarious.
You're just showing up.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
We're moving to Steve Dott.
I just want to watch football.
Ricky, I don't want to seeTaylor Swift.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I don't want to see that guy.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I mean it's fine if he's in uniform, but I'm not
subscribing to that deal.
So I'm a big Ravens fan, I'lltell you that.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
And I think I'm not alone with many guys across the
country.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I think there's a general battle being Probably.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, yes, well, yeah .
So I'm doing great, pete,considering that my Bill's
completely lost.
So, yeah, anyway, we're good.
I didn't know you were a Ravensfan.
I'll check in with you nextweek to see how you're doing.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I am this weekend.
I'm, you know, I need one ofthose bumper series.
I'm a fan of the Buccaneers andanyone who's playing Kansas
City.
As long as they were dating.
I like that, I like it.
We are going to talk aboutsomething I will say is more
important than then.
Then then the you know who'sdating in the NFL.
But it is about someone'schoices, and specifically the
(01:47):
choices that someone makes whenthey go to college, and not
whether they should go tocollege.
It's a different issuealtogether and we can and have
talked about that.
But this is about whethercollege degrees matter matter to
your profession, matter to yourfinancial life, matter to your
future.
So what's your?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
short answer to that question College degrees matter
less now than when they did 30,40 years ago.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Not whether they matter whether oh got it, that's
right.
That's right.
The choice of degree.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Honestly, I don't think it matters.
Pete At the majority.
I don't.
I truly don't think it matters.
I've seen people in positionswho do well in those positions,
that have a degree that hasnothing to do with what they're
currently doing in their career.
So I don't think it matters.
Well the data.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
The data would would disagree with that.
I will tell you.
So we'll talk a little bitabout a study from from
Georgetown that was university.
It just came out.
They should know about thesethings and the the the math
indicates that your your choiceof major is going to have a big
impact on your financial futureand how much you're going to
(02:53):
earn.
So we we see lots of studiesabout whether a college degree
impacts earning over time, butthis is about the specific major
and I I think that you knowthis is worthy of exploration.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
But that would only so.
That means that these stats areonly.
It's only good if the peoplewho went to school for a
specific field are currentlyworking in that specific field,
right?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Well, I think it's a generalization, right.
There's exceptions to everyrule, so you can go to school
for one thing and end up doingsomething else.
So let's just start there,because that is very common,
right.
We know that happens a lot.
It happens to me.
I'm, I'm, I have a degree inpolitical science.
I am not a political scientist.
Okay, I don't work in politicsand in fact when I was in a
(03:39):
student night, I don't eventhink I paid attention to
politics outside of the student.
I was really in the studentgovernment.
I think that's how I ended uppicking that major.
But I'm a in staffing,recruiting, you know, the career
world of careers.
Not, not, not, not a politicalscientist.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So I got my, my bachelor's in business and I
have my uh master's in humanresources and I actually I'm
involved in both.
Right, it's I.
I am in human resources and Ihelp businesses go from here to
there.
But, pete, I got a question foryou, so why, if you didn't go
into the political field, whydid you pick political science
(04:14):
as your major?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Why does an 18 year?
old do anything.
My mindset at that age, myscope, was limited.
I didn't have a whole lot ofexperience.
I didn't know what I wanted todo.
Now that's one of the thingsthat we're focused a lot on, as
you know, is helping youngpeople make those decisions and
(04:38):
giving them the right tools andinformation to arm them to do
that.
But I didn't have that.
It was go to college, get a job.
The in between, there was no onereally focusing on that for me
and I wasn't focused on that.
So you could say and you'd beright that that's my
responsibility.
As I said a minute ago, myperspective was limited and I
(05:00):
didn't have a great resource ortools to use to see all the
different options.
And even today, I think that,even though the information is
all out there on the internet,if someone's willing to do their
own research, they can come upwith a lot of answers.
There's aptitude tests.
We have a recent blog listingthe 10 most popular ones that we
wrote, because we know that theinformation exists.
(05:23):
But I don't think the people incharge of providing that
information to those who need itmost and so this isn't to take
a shot at career counselors andadvisors.
I don't think there's a greatprocess for students getting led
down the path of making achoice.
It's going to be right now.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Now it's, I'm going to ask you a question and the
answer to this question is goingto answer what you just threw
out there.
Now, you went to college rightafter high school, right?
So I did not.
I went to the Marine Corpsright after high school and I
spent four years in that amazingenvironment and that cleared my
vision of what I wanted to do,right?
But I spent four years there,went all over the world and then
(06:03):
came back and I was reallyclear about where I wanted my
direction in life to go, and Ireally think that's important.
That it's.
I know it doesn't work foreverybody, but I know for me
that's the best possible thing Icould have done because, like
you said, at 18 years old, onceyou're done with high school,
you don't know anything aboutlife.
What are you going to make aselection for?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
I mean you've gone from not being in charge of your
, of your life, right, even ifyou're a child, up until that
point where you leave home.
You've had parents who directyou, guide you.
You've had high school teacherswho tell you what to do and
you're locked into that setting.
But then you go out and saymake a decision, that's going to
(06:45):
impact the rest of your life.
Yeah Well, I mean really therest of your life, because, even
though you could say, becausehow you earn your living, how
much you earn is, is going tostay with you until retirement,
that's going to determine yourlifestyle.
And listen, it's not all aboutincome, but that should be a
consideration.
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
It, it, I mean.
Why else would you go tocollege if not to put yourself
in a better position financiallyin the future?
Right, I, I, I don't know ofany other reason to go to
college than for that right.
Well, I mean it's.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I mean, that's that is it, it, it you know, learning
to, to develop expertise insomething, to, to gain knowledge
that you can then apply to makethe world a better place for
yourself and others.
I think it's most pure.
Look, I'd like to believethat's why you're going to
college but it is a goodquestion, right?
(07:41):
If you took a survey and maybewe should take the survey of of
of you know a thousand, you knowhigh school seniors and say who
are planning to go to college,why, I would.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I wonder what those answers would be, I think they
might say no, because the waythe world is today.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Wait.
The question is why are yougoing to college?
Well, I mean, if they say no tothat, that's a logical answer.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Why do you want to go to college?
No, okay, you need to go tocollege.
Why, yeah, why are you going tocollege?
Yeah, that's the question.
I wonder why, why did you go tocollege?
Right, why did you go tocollege?
So honestly I so why did I go?
I went to because I wanted todo that I wanted.
I knew that the Marine Corpswas not something I wanted to
make a career of, because Ididn't know if I was going to
make it to 20 years right, andthis was before the Second Gulf
(08:30):
War happened.
Right, well, operational andand doing freedom.
So I don't I.
I didn't know if I was going tobe home to enjoy retirement, so
I wanted something to put me ina great position to earn a
really good living and notstruggle from paycheck to
paycheck.
That, honestly, that's thereason I went to college.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
And, truth be told, I think that is why most people
go to college.
I think they're so, and that'skind of the point of this
episode.
If you, if you go to collegefor your financial future, then
you should be making a choice indegree that it's going to lead
to a good outcome.
But what the evidence indicates, and what we know to just be
(09:08):
true, is that there's a lot ofdegrees that don't really tie to
financial security and and it'snot going to help people thrive
.
So let's, let's back up alittle bit to go forward and
talk about the different typesof majors.
There's, there's hundreds,thousands of majors that exist,
but they generally fall into alimited number of categories,
(09:30):
and those categories are STEM,right, science and technology.
There's business education,health, humanities and liberal
arts, right, those kind of getblended together and, and what
we're talking about, there aredegrees in literature and
writing and history andphilosophy and then and then
social sciences right, mypolitical science degree was was
(09:51):
in the school of socialsciences at Florida State where
I went.
But then the next question iswhat do those qualify you to do?
And you can, you can point tosome majors in sciences and
healthcare and engineering,right, if you go to school and
get a bachelor's degree inelectrical engineering, you're
qualified.
You're on the path to be anelectrical engineer.
(10:11):
Right, it's very easy.
If you go to school and get adegree in political science,
then I'll pick on myself withthis You're not qualified as a
political scientist.
When you dissu when yougraduate, in fact, I would argue
you have very base levelknowledge of politics and and
the science thereof when yougraduate and that doesn't really
(10:34):
translate into a job.
It doesn't translate into.
You know much in way ofeconomic.
You know benefit.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
But that begs the question, right it's.
That's why I like the idea ofthe survey.
If you give the surveys today,why are you going to college?
What is the reason?
If it isn't for financial gain,right, and if it isn't for an
18 year old to set themselves upfor the rest of their lives,
why would they ever pick adegree that would put them at
(11:03):
the bottom of that financiallist?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
That these are individual questions to be
answered right?
I think a lot of it does comedown to the guidance they're
receiving.
Not looking forward, this isnot.
You know, there are a lot of 18year olds who are anomalies
with this right, who have a goodfeel for what they want to do
in a passion for something, andthey're and they're thinking of
(11:26):
their future.
But, as a general statement,the younger you are, the harder
it is to think of the long-termimpact, unless someone is giving
you the tools to do that.
Right.
You live in the moment.
We know that's what youngpeople do.
Right.
They live for the day and Idon't know that the right
questions are being asked.
The right things are beingconsidered.
What is your aptitude?
(11:47):
Right?
What is going to be valuable in, not just today, over time and
these things are changingrapidly right, with AI and
remote work and all the shiftsthat are happening with
technology and just society as awhole.
Right now, jobs that existed,that looked promising even as a
college freshman, some entireprofession is completely just in
(12:12):
the past year or two.
So, looking forward,anticipating to use a sports
analogy, anticipating where thepuck is going right the hockey
analogy not where it is, todayis more important than ever.
So let me show you a graphicreal quick.
If you're watching, this willmake sense to you.
If you're listening, I'll justexplain it.
(12:33):
And this is from the Georgetownstudy that says not all
bachelor's degrees are createdequal.
So if you look at the entrylevel, starting compensation
from a STEM major 43,000 to arts, humanities and liberal arts at
29,000, right out of the gate.
(12:53):
What a massive difference.
And that gap doesn't close.
I mean, that's the rest of thestory.
Those who start ahead are goingto stay ahead, generally
speaking.
I mean, look, you can.
There's exceptions.
I won't keep saying that we'retalking playing the odds here,
looking at the data and the datavery clearly indicates that
(13:14):
your choice of major is going tosignificantly impact yeah, but
I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
It's exactly how you said, early on in your life,
early on in your career you'renot really thinking about that
financial impact in the future.
Now, some people do, somepeople do.
And now I want to jump onsomething you just said, because
I know it depends on the person, how the person is guided.
It also depends on the persongrew up.
If you grew up in anenvironment where your great
(13:41):
great grandfather was a doctoror a union steward, guess where
you're going to be?
Maybe a doctor or a unionsteward, unless you want to be
the black sheep of the family,right, but but it's, it's.
You're right.
I don't think students orpeople at 18, not that they
don't have the right grasp Idon't think they don't have the
(14:01):
right guidance from mentors toput them down the road of what
they need to be thinking about25 years later.
Well, we're trying to bringlight to that.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That's that's that's what that's what this is all
about.
So here's another graphic, Ifthis is, showing the lowest
paying majors in education, artsand the social work fields that
we just showed were the loweststarting points.
Now, keep in mind this is not a.
This is not a.
This is mid career.
Mid career not starting.
Early childhood education$39,000.
(14:29):
That's the bottom of the list.
And you and you look, andthat's an appealing major to a
lot of people, right?
I mean, who doesn't want tohelp children with education?
What a noble thing.
So let me let me just go onrecord and say I'm not saying
this is how it should be, farfrom it.
What I'm saying is this is howit is and that's the.
That's the world we have to payattention to.
(14:50):
That's reality.
So sure, 42,000 mid career,42,000 mid career it's a really
tough way to to to live, ricky.
It's really a 42,000 isn't alot of money in in in our, in
our world?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I repeat, but then you would have to guess or you
would have to assume that ifsomebody goes in into those,
those type of fields like earlychildhood education, you're not
going to go in there to be rich.
So you're going in there for adifferent reason than financial
gain.
You're going in there.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It's a difference between being rich and being you
know, I don't even think that'sa big difference and yeah,
that's my point All yeah.
That's my point.
So so, so back it up evenfurther.
You go to college, right, andwe, if we, if we believe and
we'll cooperate on this theoryto some degree that you go to
(15:40):
college to benefit yourselffinancially, right, they're your
profession and you choose oneof these degrees and career
paths, you're not accomplishingyour objective.
In fact, you could argue, Iwould argue, that you're making
it even worse by going tocollege in the worst way.
Now, that's what we're talkingabout today, but, but maybe,
(16:01):
maybe the way to phrase it inthis context is if you decide to
go to college, you shouldconsider the degree and how it's
going to impact your financialfuture, because you're paying to
go to college.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I, I, I agree.
Right, when you go buy a car,you don't just buy one, you test
drive them, you take a look atdifferent dealers where you're
going to get the best deal.
This should not be anydifferent.
But I think again, it starts athigh school, it starts at
college and it starts at home.
I, I agree with you.
We are asking the wrongquestions, we are, we are having
the wrong conversations.
(16:35):
Right, because and I've heardcounselors say this I've heard
counselors say you pick whateveryour heart desires.
I'm like, wait a minute.
Right, if I want to be a Legomaster, right, I don't know if
that's going to bring me anymoney, right, unless I come out
on the show.
Right, and that's what my heartdesires.
Right, look, I'm a Star Warsfan, pete.
Right, I could be a Star Warsfan as a career.
(16:56):
That's not going to, that's notgoing to sustain a living, and
I don't know who would marry me,right, if that was my goal in
life.
Well, I mean, you already gotsomeone to marry you despite
your Star Wars obsession, so Ithink that's okay.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
So, okay, let me, let me show you what, let me show
you one more graphic that thatsort of supports us and then
we'll move on.
And that is where we're goingto talk about, like which you
know mid-career for thedifferent groupings of of
degrees right, call it.
You know schools that you couldgo to that we mentioned before.
So STEM mid-career 76,000average versus teaching and
(17:33):
serving Again what.
There couldn't be a more nobleprofession than teaching young
people right that this is wrong.
Wait, wait, it's real.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It's wrong because it should be more.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Okay, let me phrase it differently, not the way it
should be.
This is how it is.
That reality can't, shouldn'tbe ignored, but it is ignored
and I think that's Somethingthat we try to change.
So the difference between ifyou're a STEM major mid-career,
you're making seventy sixthousand dollars if you're a
teacher.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
So let's pause for a quick P.
Let's because if we're thinkingabout and and you alluded to
that earlier if we're thinkingabout, let's have the right
conversations About college.
That would help people in thefuture.
If STEM is hot right now, do wehave data to show that it's
gonna continue to be hot five,ten, fifteen years from now?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I think there is certainly a lot of data and I
won't say data right.
There's a lot of projectionsbased on where the world is
going, where we believe it'sgoing, and these things are.
You know their estimates, weknow that they're not until they
happen, but you know all of thedata, or all of these do show
that stem Degrees are going tobe why?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I ask right?
Because 20 years ago If a kidwas to tell the council or their
parents I want to get a degreeand to make video games, there
would have been left that rightand today that's a really good
profession.
People make a lot of moneydoing that.
So I guess what I'm saying is,when you start doing these
studies, when you start havingthese conversations, don't think
(19:04):
about what's hot right now.
You really have to take ananalytical view of what the
future is going to look like,where this country is going and
what's going to be hot Later,because it's gonna take you some
time for you to get theeducation, to get the experience
, for you to be competent in thefield that you're in.
You just have to make sure thatwhatever it's it's, it's it's
(19:24):
it's the biggest paying Notpaying but paying career now is
gonna continue to do so later onlike what's obsolete now that
20 years ago was relevant.
I'm trying to think here now?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, well, what's operator now operator?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah, a telephone operator 40 years, over 50 years
ago, an elevator person right,and in 20 years from now, I
don't think we're gonna haveuber or cabs, because it's all
gonna be automated.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, there's a lot of manual labor that's been
replaced by automation.
We know that AI right now isreplacing a lot of knowledge
work.
That's probably the biggestthing to pay attention to, and
but we, you know, so we have tomake decision.
We should be making decisionsbased on all of the knowledge,
yeah, that's available to ustoday all the data, all the
(20:12):
expectations, predictions,what's happening and Do you
think, where do you think, thatguidance is coming from today,
if it's coming at all?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
today, I think a counselor's advice is less
relevant than what it was before, because right now, students
have access to a lot moreinformation outside of school
and they get to see online, theyget to see in YouTube and and
sometimes it paints are a falsepicture of success.
Yes, yes, I've heard what inthe past couple of months two
(20:43):
kids, two kids that my, my, myten year olds are friends with.
They want to be a social mediainfluence when they grow up.
What the heck is that?
Right, I mean, and I'm surethat there's a degree for that.
But I think right now we have tobe as adults, as as mentors to
young people coming into theworkforce.
We have to be really deliberate, really careful on the advice
(21:06):
we give and we have to bethoughtful about what advice,
what road we put them on.
And that's what I'm glad we'redoing this episode, because
that's what we're looking to doRight now.
Right, be thoughtful about whatyou want to do going forward.
I just wish this kind ofrationale was live and high
schools and colleges and at homeRight, because that's the
biggest influence right over athome.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
So Well, parents, and I'm guilty of this, I won't
speak for you, but that it'svery common for us to Give
advice and in guidance andmentorship, based on our limited
perspective too.
Now we're looking at thisbecause of the business that
we're in, but otherwise Iprobably wouldn't be thinking
(21:48):
too much about these things.
Right, I would give guidance.
It Was comfortable to me and myown experiences where we're
trying now to look at this froma macro standpoint, right, and I
can tell the kids, my kids,that I, I don't want them to do
what I don't know you do, I wantthem to.
You do n't.
Okay, absolutely not.
No, I know I want them to find.
When we talked about theconcept of Iki guy, of course,
(22:11):
and some career counselors don'tlike this.
They say it's unscientific, andI was even told not too long
ago by a college guidance officedirector that we shouldn't be
encouraging young Too much outthere.
Okay, I think the opposite,right, but that that you should
(22:32):
find something that you'reinterested in.
Okay now, so that's the easypart of this.
I want to be an X, right, Iwant to have some of pick some
obscure degree and that's adifferent show With it that
could list all the just degreesthat are meaningless in the
professional world, right?
What we're talking about todayreally is the choice you make is
(22:54):
going to impact your, yourfinancial, the financial outcome
you know for your professionalcareer, right, but find
something that you're interestedin.
That's huge, and I do encouragemy own kids to do that, even if
it takes time.
Spend as much time as you needto.
You have a long runway.
If you look at your, youmentioned 40 years of working.
Well, doesn't it make sense toInvest as much time early?
(23:17):
Yeah, set yourself on the rightcourse for that, right, we all
rush to get out there.
I have a 20.
My oldest son just turned 22and For the past couple of years
he's I know he's felt pressureto arrive at this Decision, and
knowledge of this is what I'msupposed to do and really want
to do.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
We have an experience right.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, I think it's self-imposed, it's not coming
from me.
But you, you look, I felt thatpressure when I was at age.
I felt I'm, I need to get outin the world and produce, and
the clock's ticking and you can.
You feel that way, but realityis you're, you're, you're young,
right?
Let, like you, take as muchtime, invest in at your
(24:03):
education.
I Don't expect it just to cometo you.
You have to work for it, youhave to put forth the effort.
That's different.
But find something that youreally want to do Now.
That's not the only part of theequation.
That would be nice if it were,because then we wouldn't be
having this discussion.
Find something that you haveaptitude for.
Find something you're good at.
Now that's harder, right, Iwant to be a pro basketball
(24:26):
player.
Well, I can only jump twoinches and I'm not fast.
Nope, not going to happen.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
So let me ask you this.
So I'm thinking about myself,because, while you're saying
that, I'm thinking because no,come on.
See, you killed my dream man.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
You killed my dream.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
No.
So when my son he's 10, he andI have conversations now about
what he wants to do when hegrows up.
Right Now, he wants to be avideo game.
He wants to design video games.
That's why I know so much aboutit right now.
All right, let me help him downthat path.
But I started thinking what ifhe came to me and says hey, I
want to be a standup comedian,that's what I want to do?
And the back of my mind I'mgoing to be like that's a hard
(25:07):
thing to really make good moneyon, right, because I'm thinking
about his future, but at thesame time I don't want to kill
his dream, right, I want to beas supportive as possible with
his dream.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
He's 10.
Yeah, he's young, yeah, butthen I don't know if you know of
Dave Chappelle's story.
Are you the best comedian alivetoday?
All right, A lot of peoplethink that I'm in that camp.
He started at about that age.
He was a teenager, going toopen my standups and performing
how many.
My question would be to yourson what are you willing to do
(25:41):
about it?
If you say it, but don't backit up with action, well, that's
a good way, that's tough.
But if he says I'm going todedicate myself and I think
you're using this example ofstandup comedian as hey, this is
sort of an unlikely thing toactually happen.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
It's hard to just do it there.
Really hard yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
It's hard wrote, but I would be so proud of that and
I would feel that what a gift ifyou really know what you want
to do and you're willing to putyourself on the put it all on
the line and go all in.
To me, that's what we'retalking about.
That's the goal of you know,find something that you're
willing to be the absolute bestyou can be at and dedicate
(26:24):
yourself to it 24-7.
Well that's my point.
No, I'm at.
No, no, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
But my point with this is is that back in the day,
I'm thinking the wrong adviceis given to students early on,
our children is because theparents are not thinking about
what they want to do.
The parents are thinking abouthow they're going to be
financially stable, going on,you know, going on later in life
.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, fear we're afraid of.
You know, right, we're makingdecisions on fear.
And yes, as a parent, youshould lay out all the pros and
cons the best you can, or helpyour child, you know, have
exposure to all those pros andcons.
Great, you want to be astand-up comedian?
Here's the stats.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I'm glad you want it.
Here's how it typically worksout.
How bad do you want it?
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Right, yeah, how bad do you want it.
And are you funny?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I mean it's funny looking.
That's just where it happens.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I mean, yeah, but you know and this is reality has to
set in.
Like I said, I want to be a probasketball player.
Well, I'm not good atbasketball, so it doesn't matter
how hard I work, there'slimitations that have to be
acknowledged, and that's thesecond part, right?
So it's what do you want to do?
What's your aptitude for it?
And then, what is the worldvalue?
Right?
Does the world need stand-upcomedians?
(27:32):
Well, it needs some, not a lot.
That's an important part there.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
That's something that , throughout this entire 29
minutes of recording, we havenot touched on.
What does the world value nowversus what's the world going to
value later on?
Because 30 years ago, nobodyknew what a social media
strategist was, nobody knew whata social media manager was,
nobody knew what an app was, anapp developer, right?
(27:59):
So that's what the world valueis today, right?
So I guess that's what we'resaying, pete.
What we're saying is it's inorder for you to make a decision
on what type of degree you'regoing to go for, if you're going
to go for one at all, you haveto figure out what the value of
that degree, of that skill set,is going to be in 20 years.
Not five, not two.
(28:20):
20 years, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
And that's hard to do .
This is all hard, it's all easystuff and it's illogical to
some degree.
Right, the world valueseducation, the world values
teachers, but the financial?
But you can't draw thatfinancial equation to it, right?
Speaker 2 (28:38):
It doesn't value it.
It doesn't value it financially.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I mean well right, that should value it.
It doesn't value it financially.
There's some contradictions inall of this.
You have to go into it withyour eyes wide open hard thing
to do at a young age.
I hate to use the word should,right, because whether you
(29:01):
should or not is irrelevant towhat actually happens, and this
doesn't happen enough.
So you make a great point.
You need to look in the future,but there has to be some method
by which you can do that, andwe currently are today.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Something Josie and I were looking at.
We went to Europe last year,right, we went on the cruise to
Europe and we fell in love withBarcelona.
So you know, when you go to aplace and you fall in love with
it, you're like, oh, I wonderhow much it would cost to live
here.
We started thinking about it.
So my wife is a registerednurse.
She's a nurse case manager Nowa nurse here, which is
considered in the healthindustry.
(29:36):
Right, you could be makingmid-career anywhere between 80
to 130 thousand dollars a year.
You know how much that is inSpain 30 grand, 30 thousand
dollars in Spain.
Right, it is a different worldout there, right?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Because they don't need nurses.
There's.
No, it's a mean, because it'sgenerally a subplot.
It is.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Over there, remember, over there it's the medical
field is socialized, right.
They have social medicine overthere, right?
So that's what I'm saying Ifyou're somebody who, you may
think about moving somewhereelse in the future.
You got to make sure that theskillset that you're dedicating
your time and effort to incollege is also transferable
outside of the US borders,Because more and more people are
(30:17):
leaving the US and now you gotto think globally.
The Internet, Mark Zuckerbergand Elon Musk are making the
world smaller, right, Smallerright.
So you got to think about theborders beyond America and just
really try to map out your lifeas best you can.
I think that's what we shouldsay Think about your life.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
And we've.
This seems like it's been sortof a bad news message in many
respects, but here's a differentway of looking at it, or an
additional consideration, ratheryour major doesn't necessarily
translate into your professionand what you're going to be
doing and your financialwell-being.
It just what we're really justtalking about is that major may
(31:02):
not lead to those opportunitiesat all and you may end up in a
completely different place,right?
My own example, being the easyone to talk about, is what I do
has nothing to do with mycollege major.
And you could argue and this iswhere I struggle a little bit
that well, I learned things thattranslate right, that were
(31:23):
still valuable critical thinkingskills.
That's always the go-to.
You learn critical thinkingskills, hi, betty.
I learned critical thinkingskills when I had to pay my own
bills, right, that's when Ilearned critical thinking skills
not when I was in college, Ilearned how to have a good time.
I learned how to beat the system.
I didn't take it serious.
(31:44):
I would love to go to collegenow.
There's so much that I wouldlike to invest in it from a
knowledge standpoint.
So I think in many casescollege is wasted on.
The people who were there saythat for me.
You can you do if you.
You don't have to, you're notpigeonholed.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
And Pete.
And here's the thing right,because to me I would.
I don't think I would havetaken college as seriously as I
did had I not joined themilitary right after high school
.
I think if I would have gone tocollege right after high school
, I would have just partied Likea lot of people do today, right
Party, and I wouldn't havetaken it seriously.
But I I saw what life was likeand I'm like whoa, I have to do
(32:21):
this right.
So that's why I'm a bigproponent If my son comes to me
and says hey, daddy, I don'twant to go to college right away
.
Gotcha, papa, what do you wantto do?
I'm going to guide yousomewhere.
You've started businesses.
You go work somewhere, learn totrade, go to the military.
But you got to do something tokind of part.
You know to, to, to, to startthat spark, light, that fire in
(32:42):
you.
But I can't tell them how to dothat right.
That's why, because I've met,I've got a neighbor who's hell
bent on making sure his kids gostraight to college.
Uf Gators, baby, that's whatthey are right after high school
, right, and that's all he talksabout.
But I'm like, is this yourdream, or is this their dream.
I mean, let's have a realconversation about who's dream.
This is right.
(33:02):
You don't know if they want todo that, and I know he's like
Ricky.
Look at them every everySaturday during college football
.
They're all dressed.
I'm like, no, you dress themRight, they're just following
your league, right.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
So I mean I guess this is for parents out there.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Right, it's, yes, it's good for you to be proud,
it's good for you to have yourkids follow in your footsteps,
but kids are vulnerable, they'rereally vulnerable.
So I think it's better for youto take a step back and, instead
of driving the career car, youlet them drive and you just the
GPS, let them put in thosecorners and you get them there
the safest, most efficient waypossible.
(33:37):
That is the best thing we cando as parents and the best thing
we can do as mentors.
And let's let me talk aboutmentors not just in college, not
just in high school work aswell.
You've got some senior leadersat work who can give young
professionals who don't have thething at home to be able to
help them, guide them in theright place.
So and we have- we.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
that's a bring up our podcast.
We did on that.
We did a podcast aboutmentorships.
So check it out, listen to it.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
You give a lot of Henry agrees he's behind you.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
He agrees, he's.
Yeah, the dog is enthralled.
But here's the last piece ofadvice that I'll give on this
note is on zen gigcom and we'lllink this in the show notes.
We have the most popular careeraptitude or career personality
tests I mentioned earlier.
We'll link those.
Some are free, some, some youhave to pay for, but worth
(34:28):
exploring so you can start tothink about these things.
Right, and listen.
As a parent of four, I'm noteven though I spend a lot of
time thinking about this and,yeah, I'd say I have some level
of expertise in this space.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
You've been there, you've done this for my old
career, you can stop and companyowner.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
but my kids don't want to listen to me.
They don't think I know whatI'm talking about.
You know I'm dad, they're rightto them.
So send them into, you know,don't.
Don't rely on your ownknowledge, your own biases, you
know, for these things.
Get some independentperspective on this.
These tests are quick and easyand a lot of people rely on them
(35:08):
very heavily and the quality ofthem.
I'll let you, you know, makethose determinations for
yourself, but we'll, we'll linkthat, you know, or you can just
Google it career personalitytests on zen gig and we have 10
real quick, growing up, whetheryou want to be so growing up,
whether you want to be.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
once you got to adulthood, what was your first?
Speaker 1 (35:25):
love in career.
It wasn't a recruiter.
I didn't dress as a recruiterfor Halloween, as I often said.
That's a good question.
I really, I really don't know.
I would say probably theearliest memory and this is
going to sound cliche but Iloved football and I had
pictures of football players allover all over my room and big
Minnesota Vikings fan Okay, gotit Huge Vikings fan.
(35:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, my room was purple withViking stuff over, yeah, but
that's about as much, yeah,otherwise yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I just want to be a football player.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
What a shock right An American football player.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Growing up, I wanted to be a pilot.
I was in through all withaviation and through all with
that.
I wanted to be a fighter pilot.
So bad and I.
I had my mind set I'm going togo to, you know, high school,
college and then be a pilot.
And then one Christmas that was13 years old, uncle came to me
and said you know, so I hear youwant to be a pilot on my get.
You're blind.
(36:20):
You can't be a pilot withglasses.
You do this.
I'm like all right.
He said it, just like that,right.
And I'm like completely shot mydream.
He was right At that point intime.
You needed to have 2020 oncorrect division.
So okay.
So five years later, I joinedthe military, I'm in the Marine
Corps, I'm on a ship and I runinto pilots.
I have glasses.
(36:40):
And I asked him I'm like,excuse me, sir, so it's so.
I asked it's like, oh, that wasyears ago.
Now we got.
Now we have all kinds ofequipment that you could.
You need 2020, but it's okay ifit's corrected.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I'm like, dammit, uncle Dino right Dream was
killed unnecessarily so thatsaid.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
That said people if you have a nephew that has an
amazing dream, right, Don't killthat dream.
For that nephew, man, Let metell you, do not kill it.
Technology will advance forwhatever limitations he may have
at that point.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
That is such necessary advice to tell adults
don't crush your dreams.
Perfect, and Jeff, if you needto hear that, you need to move
on, all right, well, thank youfor listening.
Rick, you think he was alwaysdrive safe.
We would love for you to rateus five stars, if you could.
That would be awesome, and yeahfollow your dreams next week.
Perfect, thanks, clegg.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.