From Rejection to Success: Job Hunting Strategies with Sam Brenner

Are you ready to step up your job search game? Well, our latest discussion with Sam Brenner from CRB Workforce promises to kick your career knowledge up a notch. You'll get a front-row seat to the insider's world of staffing and recruitment - a terrain where ethics are not only valued but vital. Sam opens up about the bumps he encountered on his professional journey, the lessons that made failure worthwhile, and how Jocko Willink's "Extreme Ownership" changed his career completely.

As we take a deep dive into CRB - a recruitment agency with a niche focus on entertainment, travel, hospitality, and ed tech, you'll see the devotion to delivering exceptional experiences for both clients and candidates. A thought-provoking reflection on the post-pandemic job market not only gives a rounded picture of the current employment landscape but also emphasizes the enduring importance of treating people right in the service industry.

Now, if you're a job seeker, pay close attention to the strategies we discuss. We share practical advice on crafting a compelling email template, identifying your 'dream' employers, and leveraging the power of networking. Taking a proactive approach to your job search may seem daunting at first, but with our tips, you'll be well on your way to landing that dream job. We address common slip-ups during the application process and provide solutions to help you stand out in a saturated job market.

So, tune in, get inspired, and take your career into your own hands.

Job Hunting Strategies:
1. Tailored Resumes and Cover Letters: Customize your resume and cover letter for each application to highlight relevant skills and experiences.
2. Networking: Leverage professional networks, attend industry events, and use platforms like LinkedIn to connect with potential employers and industry peers.
3. Recruitment Agencies and Headhunters: Connect with agencies that specialize in your field; they can often provide access to unadvertised vacancies.
4. Follow-Up Communications: Send polite follow-up emails to reiterate your interest after submitting applications or completing interviews.
5. Company Research: Thoroughly research companies before applying or interviewing to tailor your approach and show genuine interest.
6. Prepare for Interviews: Practice common interview questions, prepare examples of your work, and be ready to discuss how you can contribute to the company.
7. Stay Organized and Persistent: Keep track of applications, follow-ups, and network contacts. Persistence is key in a competitive job market.


Additional Resources:

• Extreme Ownership & Discipline Equals by Jocko Willink
• Step-by-Step Guide on How to Network
• How to Write a Follow-up Email After an Interview
• How to Shine in a Saturated Job Market

🧠 WANT TO LEARN MORE? Be sure to subscribe and check out https://zengig.com/

👋 FOLLOW PETE NEWSOME ONLINE:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petenewsome/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PeteNewsome
Blog Articles: https://www.4cornerresources.com/blog/

👋 FOLLOW SAM BRENNER ONLINE:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sambrenner007/
Website:
Podcast.
I'm Pete Newsome and my guesttoday is Sam Brenner from CRB
Workforce.
Sam, how are you today?

Sam Brenner (00:10):
Doing well.
Thanks for having me, Pete.

Pete Newsome (00:12):
Thanks so much.
You're based in LA.
How is it out there today?

Sam Brenner (00:17):
It's.
I don't know if everyone wouldagree with me, but it's pretty
chilly.
I think it's like low 70s, soI'm cold.
I think other people mightenjoy it.

Pete Newsome (00:26):
You're talking to a Florida guy who's wearing a
flannel shirt and it's.
You know, the rest of the worldwould be in shorts and a
T-shirt right now.
So I'm with you, exactly.
I'm with you for sure.
Well, thanks so much.
You're the founder and CEO ofCRB Workforce.
Why don't you start?
If you wouldn't mind?
Just let us know.
How'd you get into staffing inthe first place?

Sam Brenner (00:47):
Yeah, I don't think it's a unique answer.
I think, like 99% of everyoneelse in staffing, I kind of fell
into it.
I was in commercial real estatebeforehand and had a bizarre
specialty in representingstaffing agencies.
I was doing office leasing, soI had a bunch of experience with

(01:10):
the industry from thatstandpoint.
And you know, I had moved toBarcelona at some point with my
wife.
I quit commercial real estateand when we moved back to Orange
County it was like what am Igoing to do?
And one of my buddies who owneda staffing agency was telling

(01:30):
me you got to try this out, it'san interesting industry.
And so we kind of made anagreement.
It's like 30 days either youknow you're good at it, you like
it and you stick around, oryou're terrible, you don't like
it and you take a hike.
And so you know I think it wastwo weeks in and I was like this
is great.

Pete Newsome (01:50):
I love this.

Sam Brenner (01:53):
And it's kind of how I got into it.
I spent five years with him andhis agency and then opened up
my own in 2008, 2018.

Pete Newsome (02:05):
I think in sales and recruiting you either have
it a knack for it or you don't.
I like the 30 days.
It's probably not going to turnaround if you don't, but if you
do and you're a natural thenit's a great place to be.

Sam Brenner (02:21):
Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool, just the idea
of like help.
Like I didn't go into it withan altruistic approach like, oh,
I want to save the world andgive people jobs.

Pete Newsome (02:33):
It was.

Sam Brenner (02:33):
It's a sales job and I knew that and that was
what was motivating me.
But I thought it was reallycool because historically, all I
had done was match officetenants with office buildings
and that never felt good, youknow.
And so now here I was, likeactually getting someone a job
and it was pretty cool.

(02:54):
Now there's all the downsidesof it too, but there was that
element that was pretty neat too.

Pete Newsome (03:01):
Well, I've said a lot over the years that we are
in business to make money and Iwant to apologize for that.
However, you're not going tosucceed in this space unless
you're honest, ethical, diligent.
You have to do things all theright way so everyone wins.
You can't it's when clients win, otherwise you're not going to
last very long at all.

Sam Brenner (03:22):
A hundred percent.
You know the downside toworking with people and feeling
that upside of seeing someoneyou know land an exciting job or
whatever it is, the downside isthat you get let down.
Also, and that was the hardestpart when my business started
taking off, was like navigating.

(03:43):
You know the month long processwith a candidate or a client
where everyone's telling you onething you're bought in like you
know, okay, you've got the deal, like you feel good about it,
there's a commission, but thenyou know their start date comes
and they ghost you right, or theclient pulls the offer on the

(04:06):
weekend before the start day.
I mean, both sides can do it toyou.
And that was the toughest partwas like was navigating that
disappointment from people,because I know it, I know it.

Pete Newsome (04:20):
I'll do well.
My first when I started FourCorner Resources, my first
placement I remember it was suchan exciting day.
It was this junior architectand I was working at home and I
went to check my computer.
I was dressed up and had a tieon a regular Walk-A-Mend for his
first day.
I checked my email and hebacked out the morning of the

(04:44):
job with some ridiculous excuse,never heard from him again and
I had to go and show up for mybrand new client.
My company was a month old atthe time and laid us all out,
but in a way it was the bestthing that could have happened
to me, because I realized thenyou know, I'd worked for someone
else before and I'd been awayfrom staffing for 10 years prior

(05:05):
to starting Four Corner, and Isaid okay, this is a whole
different deal.
It's my fault, I didn't qualifythis person well enough.
There were red flags that Ididn't see, and so over the
years, when we have recruiterswho have early success, they get
a placement right off the bat,like in their first week, or
they fill a hard position earlyon.

(05:27):
That's almost a bad sign for me, because they think it's easier
than it is and we know better.

Sam Brenner (05:32):
Yeah, yeah, well we're.
I think we deal with that rightnow coming post pandemic market
right, like everyone saw.
Most people saw 2020, 2021,2022, like extreme highs and
2023 has been tough and you haveto, really you know, look at

(05:53):
your process and I teach thatall the time that my favorite
book about that is um JockoWillings extreme ownership.
and Every single time somebodyfails in some capacity, ken, it
doesn't start.
Whatever that surprise is,they're like it's not my fault
and it's like it's always yourfault and and that's not a bad

(06:15):
thing it's just make it yourfault and get better you know
like well we want.

Pete Newsome (06:21):
We don't learn from our wins.
We, you know anyone in sales orrecruiting for any period of
time knows that it's no fun tolook at those losses and to
understand why.
But, to your point, there'salways something right.
There was, yeah, there was apause, there was a callback that
didn't come when it wassupposed to.
There was, you know, an excusefor something right.

(06:44):
We all know the excuses, right,sick kids, car trouble, dead
grandparents, like we know, and,and you, you can, you want to
give people the benefit of thedoubt and Unfortunately, in our
business, as we learn, we haveto be very skeptical of new
clients, right, it's like guiltyuntil proven, innocent almost

(07:06):
and new candidates.
But that's what makes it good,because we address all the bad
up front and we look for theproblems right.
Everyone, everyone, new in thisbusiness.
You know they want to look forthe good right, but but they're,
they could do the job, theymaybe they'll be in, except the
offer.
You want to find as close to aperfect match as you can and
that means a process ofelimination that's pretty strict

(07:29):
.

Sam Brenner (07:30):
Yeah, and it's pretty neat when you find the
client that is giving you allthose green flags and the
candidates that it are fullyengaged and you start making
those matches right, Like that'swhen it gets fun.

Pete Newsome (07:43):
It's like a any relationship right when it's
easy and it's good, it justflows way.
Or I've often used the analogythere's a road, the main road
that goes through downtownOrlando and I know you come to
hear a lot Is Orange Avenue.
And I said if you're on OrangeAvenue and it's green lights the
whole way, that's, that's whatyou're gonna stop a light every,

(08:04):
every, every block.
It's not a good.
It's not a good thing.

Sam Brenner (08:10):
Yeah.

Pete Newsome (08:11):
Yeah so.
So tell me, how did tell meabout CRB a little bit.
What's your specialty?
What do you guys focus on?

Sam Brenner (08:18):
Um, yeah, so we really have three general areas.
Um, at a high level, just kindof break out general areas we do
permanent, um placement,executive level, and then the
bulk of our business is in theconsulting or contracting
services, um the.
The industries that wetypically work with are, um

(08:38):
entertainment uh, so anythingfrom content distribution to, um
you know, experiences uh in theentertainment space, um, that's
really one segment,entertainment and travel and
hospitality.

Pete Newsome (08:52):
Uh is another segment.

Sam Brenner (08:54):
We do a lot of um, you know, say, destination type
stuff, um, you know it's all ofthe roles that we're placing our
it, engineering or marketing.
But in those industriesentertainment, travel and
hospitality, like cruise lines,things like that Um.
And then ed tech is a reallyhigh growing segment of our

(09:17):
business right now, um, andprimarily in, like the online
education space.
So Um, like university ofphoenix is not a customer if
they're listening, we want youto be a customer, but um, but
someone like that Um, wherethey're providing an online
educational experience.

Pete Newsome (09:35):
That's big, that's booming right and it started
yeah, it was already growing.
And then kind of it just justmade it blow up even bigger, and
it makes sense, right, I meanwe have a virtual World now, and
that's that's only going toincrease, I think so that's a,
that's a great place to to be.
And now there's a lot ofcompetition and staffing.
We know that.
What differentiates serbworkforce.

(09:56):
Well, what, what do you, whatdo you leverage that allows you
to um to be competitive in themarket?

Sam Brenner (10:04):
Yeah, that's another one of those questions I
feel like is similar to you.
Know how I got in to recruiting?
I mean, I think at a high level.
Right, I am not oblivious,there's.
There's not a whole lot thatdifferentiates us from another.
They're really good recruitingagency there's a there's a lot

(10:25):
from a bad recruiting agency.
But, but you know, seriously, agreat recruiting team is a great
recruiting team and and and.
We have the processes, we havethe network, we have, um, you
know, really cool tech, cooltech stack that helps our
recruiters and helps our clientsand and um and candidates.

(10:46):
But, you know, our biggestvalue add is the experience that
our clients and candidates, um,and my internal team, um
experiences.
I think it's the way that Ibuilt the company, in the way
that I teach the team to treatour customers and candidates is
a lot like Amazon's philosophyor Starbucks philosophy.

(11:10):
Um, you know, for Starbuckspeople, you know they go into a
Starbucks because of theconsistency, right, they they
want their toffin at latte.
Um, you know the exact same wayand they know what to expect.
They go in there, they get itand and you know, they, they
have that level of consistencyfor Amazon, it's customer

(11:31):
service.
You buy something on Uh primeand it doesn't fit, there's no
questions asked.
You just return it.
Right it's.
It's that same level of service, the same exact toffin at latte
um, and you know, to me that'sthat's really more important
than than anything.
Our customers, um, reallyrarely leave us once they

(11:55):
experience our process.
They work with us Um, they,they don't leave us.
Uh, we'll compete with anyonehead to head on Access to the
talent, right, but they, theystick with us because they know
they're the candidates that gothrough our process, had a great
experience.
They know that they always cancount on us to deliver um.

(12:16):
And so you know, I think at theend of the day, you know our
belief is just that our job isto support the customer, support
candidate, and you know, justnever getting away the business
and you know again, it's notsomething that we can put on a
website and say, hey, here's avalue add, why it makes us
different.
But given that one chance um,you know, I think, I think

(12:38):
customers, candidates, feel thatthat difference in experience.

Pete Newsome (12:42):
I love that answer really because and that's
probably why you and I Hit itoff so well the first time we
connected because it's verysimilar to the answer I would
give where there's almost twocategories of staffing companies
or right the ones I respectBecause they're thorough and
diligent and honest andconsistent, and then there's the
you know, the other right theother.

(13:03):
Yeah, they cut corners.
They, they'll, they'll, youknow, do something, you know
they'll benefit them today.
That won't pay dividends overtime, and that's just a.
You can't succeed over timedoing that, but there's a lot of
players that will go down thatroad and, um, you know,
providing that consistentexperience is.
I mean, I couldn't have saidany better myself.

(13:25):
So I really appreciate thatanswer.
And no, no surprise, you'resuccessful because of that,
because In a service business,you know, we, we all have the
same product right.
Yeah, can it pull, is everyone.
Um we all kind of have the sametools and access to the same
resources, so it's about whatyou do with them and that's such
an individual thing and um so.
I really, I really appreciatethat answer for sure.

Sam Brenner (13:47):
Yeah, well, you know, hopefully, uh, hopefully,
it keeps paying dividends.
I I think you said it right youdo the right thing and and and
I say this to the team all thetime Good things happen to good
people.
So just be a good person, dothe right thing and good things
will happen.

Pete Newsome (14:02):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So, speaking of good people,there's a lot of good people out
in the market right now, uh,unintentionally, looking for a
job right.
There's no uh choice of theirown, no fault of their own.
Big layoffs have happened In aspace where you operate and we
Operate as well in it.
A lot of professional leveljobs.
So I think, as you go down,yeah, the the chain, I pay a

(14:26):
close attention, as I'm sure youdo, to the labor data and it
sort of sends a false signalRight now, when you see what BLS
is reporting low unemployment,lots of job openings, you know,
historical highs in job right.
Other jobs no one wants rightthe end, and they're not
professional level jobs for sure, because that market.

(14:46):
My perspective, then I guess Ishould, you know, want to hear
your opinion is that it's a,it's a it's, it's no longer an
employee's market.

Sam Brenner (14:54):
Yeah, yeah it's.
I mean you nailed it right.
What is it?
3.9% right now in employment,right, and it's like all time
low, right, Like cool.
I mean that's great for themarket, right.
We're coming up in an electionyear, so I think you know
interest rates are gonna startgoing down, unemployment's gonna
go down and you know all ofthat is fairly unrelated to our

(15:19):
industry and so you know, Idon't know my thoughts on the
industry and the current jobmarket.
It's like it's like there is amassive oversupply of candidates
and there is a massive underdemand for those professional
level candidates.
And I think the interesting partto the unemployment rate that

(15:39):
doesn't really take into.
It's not being taken intoaccount is they're not
accounting for people who arenot actively looking for jobs,
and I think that's one elementin the tech sector that's
interesting, because all ofthese I don't even know a couple
hundred thousand people thathave been laid off are getting

(16:01):
severance and they're notactively looking for jobs, and
then there's a bunch of peoplethat just don't want a job right
now.
Maybe they banked so much moneyduring COVID level compensation
levels that they're travelingthe world, I mean, you know it's
so I bet unemployment'sprobably closer to five, six,

(16:23):
seven percent when you load allthose people back in, which is
still, you know, not terrible.
But I think I was looking at thenumbers the other day and I
think we as an industry, thetech industry, we reduced
overall positions like net 2,500last month and which was really

(16:49):
interesting, and I think whatthat was was that was like
number of postings that weretaken down, and it's not a
direct indicator of them beingfilled, because you're seeing a
lot of them be cycled back.
And so I think what ishappening is you have the

(17:10):
employers who are saying whatyou said it is now an
employer-driven market, right?
Their compensation expectationsare in line with what they're
seeing.
People accept offers at whatthey're willing to offer.
They're reducing their costs,they're trying to keep more jobs
, reduce the overall cost ofthat job, but the candidates are

(17:34):
not there yet.
They haven't reduced theirsalary expectation, and so
that's the major disconnect.
That paradigm has to shift,otherwise it's just gonna be,
they're just gonna be buddingheads over and over.

Pete Newsome (17:50):
Well, it's really hard for individuals to go
backwards, and we saw thependulum swing so far post-COVID
in favor of employees in somany different professions,
recruiting probably being asyeah, I have a big example as we
could come up with and thesalaries just grew unnaturally

(18:11):
right, and I tend to refer tothose kind of things as
unnatural acts that take place.
If you're six months intorecruiting, you probably
shouldn't expect a$100,000-based salary to work
virtually right.
It's great if you can get it.
Don't get me wrong, but thatwas supply and demand, and the
supply was in the favor of theemployees at the time.

(18:36):
Now it's going the other way.
The demand is I would just sayit's back to normal, almost.
I don't think it's at a subparlevel as much, maybe a little
bit right now.
I mean, we're coming into theholiday season.
Hiring slows down this time ofyear.
We know that.
But it's a problem though,right, I mean you and I aren't
gonna solve that.
The market is reacting.

(18:57):
We can't blame employers fordoing what's best for their
businesses, but we still wannabe able to help the employees,
right.
I think part of helping them issetting realistic expectations.
That's not fun to talk about.
But look, I have young childrenin their early 20s.

(19:18):
I'm always straight with themand sometimes it's not what they
want to hear, but you have toadapt to whatever the market it
has going on at that time.
So let's talk about, but wewanna help people, right?
So to start with some generaladvice, I mean you and I, I know

(19:39):
you get approached by peoplewho aren't used to looking for a
job.
Where do they start?

Sam Brenner (19:46):
Yeah, well I'm.
There's a handful of differentplaces to start, but you made a
really interesting point aboutthe recent grads and their
expectation and that generationand I think that that's a big
segment to what's driving thefalse confidence in where

(20:11):
compensation levels could be.
All of these kids came out ofuniversity with computer science
degrees and instantly we'regetting hired by Fang companies
for 150 base plus bonus andthey're looking at 200k comp and
so they're competing with.
Their expectation is 150kminimum.

(20:34):
And then you have someone with10 plus years who also wants
150k because they actually haveestablished their life at 150k
and they know that they're worththat, and so they're having a
hard time competing with the 1%level of candidates, as with 10

(20:54):
years experience as well.
And so here you are recent grad, or maybe you've had one or two
jobs and the market was greatand you're applying to jobs like
what do you do?
Now it's a totally differentmarket.
You're an active job seeker andso a lot of people do ask me

(21:15):
what do you do?
I mean, obviously, work with arecruiter, right, like that's
step one.
But a lot of times recruiterswork for customers, work for the
client.
It's like a home buyer, alisting agent.
The goal is to find the listingand then the buyers come.
Right.
Then you go find the buyer.

(21:36):
So it's the same thing inrecruiting so, at the end of the
day, a job.
If you're looking for a new job, you're going to have to be
proactive.
You're going to have to doeverything all the time.
It's going to have to be yourjob to find your new job you
have to put in eight hours everyday.
You have to have a schedule allthe standard things right, but

(21:59):
none of that's unique.
The unique thing that maybe Icould offer is offering our
business development process toa candidate.
So, for example, first thing youwant to do, is build an email
with your resume attached and acouple of bullet points about

(22:23):
yourself.
Really simple stuff, generic,why you're an expert.
Build that email template, haveit ready to go.
That's kind of step one.
Step two is build a list ofyour ideal jobs, like the actual
job postings.
Go online, build a list of thejob postings or companies that

(22:44):
you want to work for.
Stay away from the Googles, theAmazons, the Facebooks.
They're too big for thisprocess.
If you want to apply to them,you have to start reaching out
to their talent acquisitionpeople.
This process is for, say, 250employee company or less.
So build your list of companies, build your template for the

(23:09):
email and then get online thenand pull up the company that
you're prospecting.
Let's call it company XYZ.
Go online then, pull up companyXYZ and then look at their
employees.
There's a really simple buttonthat says view employees or

(23:31):
let's say it's 200 and 250employees.
You click on that and it pullsup the list.
Look at the job description.
Sometimes the job descriptionwill say who the role reports to
If it does, if it says thisrole reports to the VP of
engineering.
Well, you're on LinkedIn.
You're looking at the peoplewho work there.
Find the VP of engineering.

(23:53):
That's very simple.
You've identified who the VP ofengineering is, who that job
reports to you, have yourtemplate of why you're an
awesome candidate and now you'vegot to email them.
Well, how do you find theiremail?
Well, you can buy a tool thatshows you emails, but really

(24:14):
simple way is to go to Googleand type in look at their
website.
So let's say it's xyzcom.
That's their website wwwxyzcom.
Take xyzcom, go to Google, put aquote, type the app sign for

(24:37):
like an app Gmail.
Type the app sign, paste inxyzcom, end quote and then write
the words and email and pressenter.
You'll see.
It'll show you what that emailshould be.
You just look through the firstpage of results.
You don't have to click intoanything, just kind of look and

(25:00):
see.
Do you see anything?
Do you see JohnSmith?
You'll see.
Okay, the email isfirstnamelastnameatxyzcom.
All right, we've got the format.
Go to your email, paste it in,click send.

(25:20):
Go to LinkedIn connect withthem.
Hopefully they connect whenthey do follow up and you take
that process and you multiply itacross the 10, 20 top positions
and if you don't get a responsefrom the VP, go down the level,
go to directors, go to the CTO.

(25:41):
If you believe you're a fit,then pursue it like it's your
job and I know I just kind ofwent on a big ramble, but I love
it.

Pete Newsome (25:54):
I was a masterclass, right.
I mean that, yeah, no, that wasabsolutely perfect and I know
that that is would be effective.
You'd get results.
I believe that very few peopledo it and very few people will
hear that advice and take, andso if you're one of those few,

(26:19):
know that it's rare air.
You're not going to have awhole lot of competition doing
it, and you really laid it outvery, very, very clearly and you
know it's, it is your job.
I mean, that's that's themessage.
Right, Treat it like your job.
Treat it like a businessdevelopment effort.
You're the product, Exactly.

Sam Brenner (26:39):
Well, I'll I'll I'll tell this story.
It's really funny, and I'lltell it on the simple hope that
that my, my wife's boss doesn'thear this.
But don't worry our followingis not that big, exactly.
Well, she works for Netflix andshe wanted to work for Netflix

(27:02):
like that.
She absolutely wanted to workfor Netflix.
And so five and a half, sixyears ago, whenever she got
hired, you know, she sent methis job link and she's like
this is the perfect job for me.
I have to have this job.
And so she applies and nothinghappens.
Right, and which is standard,right, Everyone's experience.
You apply, nothing happens.

(27:23):
You're one of a thousand, somaybe two three, four thousand
right Exactly, Probably.
So I was like all right, youknow what I'm going to do, this
process, exact process I justlaid out, and so I got into her
email, into her LinkedIn, and Ijust went like full business

(27:46):
development mode.
I hit up every single talentacquisition person that I
thought had a relation to thatjob, anyone that could be a
manager, and, and so she goes.
She ends up getting you know, acall back from one of the
talent acquisition people, and,and she goes through the process
and she gets hired because shetruly was a perfect fit for it.

(28:08):
And on our first day or firstweek, someone like meets her
from the talent team and they'relike, oh, you're that crazy one
that emailed and LinkedInmessaged us.
And she's like, yeah, you knowshe didn't want to say it was me
, but but they still talk aboutit and they're like we would
have never seen your resume hadyou not done that.

(28:29):
And that was awesome.

Pete Newsome (28:31):
So great.
I mean, what a perfect story.
And employers, recruiters, likewe talked about a few minutes
ago, we worry about candidatesnot accepting openings, backing
out, ghosting us, right?
I mean, that goes both ways.
As you said, we love candidateswho show interest and drive and

(28:58):
motivation.
That makes our lives so mucheasier.
And it doesn't mean that you'regoing to have 100% success rate
.
Of course you're not, of course, as a candidate, but it's going
to increase your odds ofsuccess so drastically.
And it's a difference between ashotgun and a rifle approach.
Where you're going to go, aimat your target is what you're

(29:22):
saying, right, go, take aim andthen do everything you can to
hit that target.
I love it.

Sam Brenner (29:26):
Yeah, well, you know another thing that that
I've seen quite a bit.
I don't I don't see it so muchanymore, just in my role, but
when I was on the desk, a lot ofthe candidates that I worked
with, you know, were friends orjust people that I had always
kept in touch with, and what Iwould tell them is you know, hey

(29:47):
look, all I need from you is anemail every day of jobs that
you think you're a good fit for,and then I'll do that, all that
work Like it's that's astandard recruiting business
development process to generatejob orders right and so we have
more capabilities as recruitersto build those lists, to get

(30:09):
those emails, to send things outin mass, and so I would tell
them look you, look at nightsend me the jobs
that you think you're a good fitfor.
I'll build a list, I'll sendyour resume to all the right
people, and so it was beneficialto me.
I got a lot of business thatway and it was beneficial to
them.
They didn't have to be thataccount manager, they didn't

(30:30):
have to learn that process.
So if you partner with a reallygood recruiter that you can
count on to send your resume out, you know that that will work
in in a good symbioticrelationship with a good
recruiter and a candidate thatisn't also going online and
apply.

Pete Newsome (30:47):
So we call that skill marketing.
What do you call that?
That process?

Sam Brenner (30:51):
We call it MPC and most placeable candidate.

Pete Newsome (30:54):
Most placeable candidate, right?
Okay, yeah, explain for asecond, because that's good.
That's a foreign concept tomost job seekers.
They're not.
They don't understand that, butit's.
It's interesting you wouldbring it up today.
Someone sent me a message onLinkedIn yesterday, replied to
one of my posts and said howcome recruiters never do that
anymore?
Back when I was recruiting, weused to proactively send

(31:17):
candidates and I said they do,we do, you sound like you do,
your team does.
Oh yeah, explain why letting arecruiter go through that effort
and present you is better thanyou presenting yourself, and I
want to.
I'm sure your answer is goingto be the same one I would give.

Sam Brenner (31:35):
Yeah, I mean.
I think the simplest answer islook at the situation with my
wife.
She applied and she was in asea of 1000 others when you know
she was the MPC, when shecandidate, marketing herself and

(31:56):
she is proxy or however it is.
That's when the results happen.
You're dealing with a person,you're you're reaching out to a
company with an active needyou're get, you're providing the
solution to their problem, asopposed to just being an
applicant.
That's I don't know.

(32:16):
I mean, I'm not sure if that'sthe right answer, but where I
was going with it is.

Pete Newsome (32:21):
I like so.
So, first of all, mostcandidates aren't going to be
that bold and aggressive.
We know that, yeah, but we as athird party can be more
aggressive.
You on someone's behalf, right,we can, we can, we can, push,
we can.
It's not going to be a bad word.
Maybe it may poorly reflect onus if we push too hard.
But, candidate, it has to be alittle more sensitive and

(32:43):
careful.
You're not going to be thatbold and aggressive in your
follow up.
So that's one of the reasonswhy.
Look, everyone should do it ontheir own.
And, make no mistake, not everyrecruiter is going to be
willing to do that, not becausethey don't want to, they just
don't have the time to do it.
Recruiters, as you mentionedearlier, we're driven by the

(33:03):
demands of our clients.
That's who pays our bills.
So 90 plus percent of our timeis spent finding people for jobs
, not jobs for people, andthat's a big distinction for
someone from the outside lookingin who thinks, yeah, yeah, hey,
you help people find jobs we do, but that's not the order of
things usually.

(33:24):
But if you're a candidate who'swilling to do the work for the
recruiter exactly Like that,make it easy for them.
I think that's amazing advice.
Yeah, I'm really glad youbrought it up.
I didn't.
I didn't know you were going tomention that.
I'm glad you did.

Sam Brenner (33:40):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's that sense and the job
postings that you're interestedin to the recruiter that you
know, and they'll do that's thehard part is finding the jobs.

Pete Newsome (33:50):
It takes time, right, but you're competing.
You want to shift the odds intoyour favor.
As we talked about a fewminutes ago.
This one click apply thing isjust creating a nightmare for
candidates and recruiters.

Sam Brenner (34:07):
Because I saw I started a job.
I saw this post on LinkedIn.
It was the most bizarre thing.
This guy had created a tool towhere he clicks one button and
it submits his resume to 200different like sites and are 200

(34:29):
different jobs, whatever it was, and he was like advertising it
.
And there you have like thecandidates who are like, oh my
gosh, this is amazing, like Igive me access.
And then you have the companieslike if you are ruining
everyone's chance at getting ajob, you're just blowing up the
whole system.

Pete Newsome (34:48):
And I proposed up a couple weeks ago after seeing
a lot of career coaches right,I'm using air quotes.
Yeah, telling candidates applyto every job even if you're not
qualifying for it.
Okay, yeah, you're not going toget it.
All you're doing is making itworse for everyone else and even
worse you're the recruiter isnot going to.

(35:11):
They're going to throw you inthe garbage because not you.
They're going to throw you inthe garbage because you've now
wasted their time and you'veshown no respect for their
process and it it recruiters geta bad knock.
We know that a lot of times.
It's deserved, we know that too, but it is impractical for

(35:31):
someone to sort through 1000resumes when nine out of 10 of
them aren't even close to beingqualified.

Sam Brenner (35:39):
Yeah, well, and that's why this process, whether
you do it on your, I mean.
I always if if you're acandidate and you're listening,
do it on your own.
Like certainly work with arecruiter and they'll and
they'll candidate market you if,if it's the right thing, but if
you do it on the on your own,then you will walk away in a

(35:59):
better position than the 1000easy apply candidates.
All of those are waiting forsomeone to go into the system
and review their resume.
Are you going?
to be one of the 1000, or areyou going to be the one that's
in their inbox on a Mondaymorning, on a Tuesday morning?
And that's the differentiator.

Pete Newsome (36:20):
That's it.
There's not a recruiter on theplanet who doesn't want to find
open their inbox and see theperfect candidate that's sitting
.

Sam Brenner (36:27):
That's gold.
Oh man, oh man.

Pete Newsome (36:33):
Sounds good.
Well, all right.
So that's that's.
You've given some gold.
You know golden adviceextremely valuable, but what
about things to avoid?
Is there any?
Are there any mistakes that yousee that are commonly made?
Maybe, maybe you don't, but isthere anything that you'd want
to say to a, an unintentionaljob seeker?

(36:56):
I don't know why I'm using thatphrase, but someone who hasn't
done it a lot, who maybe thinksthis is how I used to do it, is
just what.
Are there any common mistakesyou see?

Sam Brenner (37:08):
Um, well, yeah, I think the biggest one that I
would say is like not speakingyour mind.
I think like if, the minute youget into the process I'm sure
there's a lot of mistakes inlike overall process, like just
clicking easy, like don't dothat, that's that, you can do

(37:29):
more.
But let's say you're in theprocess and let's say you get an
offer and it's 10,000 less thanwhat you had said.
The biggest mistake that I seeis candidates taking offense to
a process thing, whether it's anoffer or an extra step in the

(37:54):
process.
Maybe they want to re-verifyyour tech skills or they want
you to do a project Like I getit.
That can hurt the ego sometimes, but if you like the company,
like the job, then do it.
If it's 10k less than what youare expecting, make a counter
Like.
The biggest mistake I see ispeople walking away from the

(38:17):
table without making a counter.
The counter can be money.
The counter can be hey, I'm notdoing that tech assessment.
I sat in a four-hour pairedcoding session or I did a case
study.
Whatever it is just counter inwhatever capacity that means in

(38:39):
that situation.
But use your voice, speak upand offer your position.
If the company offers theirposition, whether it's a low
ball.
Offer anything, offer yourposition.
Don't just walk away due to egoor any other reason.
What I think you find is thatif you avoid that mistake,

(39:00):
there's generally a middleground or, even more likely,
they'll end up coming to whereyou want them to be, to where
you need them to be in order tobe excited about the job.
If you're that far in theprocess.
They like you, they want you,and companies have an obligation

(39:21):
to do some of their processessometimes.
So push back, give them theopportunity to come to where you
need them.
But they won't know that unlessyou speak up and you tell them
what you need.

Pete Newsome (39:33):
It's a really important thing for people to
understand.
It's hard when you aren't inthe middle.
We get to see both sides of it.
We understand that companies inmany cases are not great at
making decisions.
Someone who initially getsinvolved later and has their own
opinions and no one in theaudience to have a bad interview

(39:55):
process or a hiring process.
We know that no one intends tooffend anyone, certainly no one
intends to chase off a goodcandidate, but all of these
things can happen inadvertently.
So the advice of don't take itpersonally, don't throw the baby
out with the bathwater sosomething happens.
Be assertive, apply logic, useyour voice, just like you said.

(40:21):
That's a perfect way to put it.
At the end of the day, peopleare people, work with people.
Look at them as a human.
Don't look at the.
You see it online.
It's easy to knock employers.
It's like the Death Star outthere, like the big bad employer

(40:43):
.
It's just people trying to getthrough their day.

Sam Brenner (40:47):
Exactly, exactly.

Pete Newsome (40:50):
To do a bad job.
I worked for two big companies.
Trust me, they were both acluster, but not because of the
individuals, just because thenature of big things don't
operate smoothly and fluidly.
I mean, that's my take.

Sam Brenner (41:02):
Yeah, I'm with you.
I was in Not for me, but forsomeone else.
I was in a hospital recentlyand we were trying to figure out
like is this doctor?
We were in the emergency room,and so it was important that we
decided if the doctor's advicewas the right advice.

(41:23):
Because it was like surgery orno surgery, and so it's a pretty
big decision to make Exactly,and so you have this doctor
who's, like you know, an expertin neurosurgery, and they're
telling you what to do and theiropinion, and I had this
realization as I'm sitting thereand I just didn't like him.

(41:45):
He just had this bad.
Something about it I didn't like, and the person I was helping
was, you know, they wantedadvice, they didn't want to be
there by themselves.
And so I'm looking at him and Ihad this realization.
I'm like this is just some guywho was a kid in school that
decided to go get a medicaldegree.

(42:07):
Like I got a bachelor's inmanagement and HR.
He went and got a medicaldegree and his job that he goes
to every day is this, and youknow, he's not the patron saint
of decisions.
And so, like you know, they'rejust people, these doctors and

(42:28):
lawyers, like they're all justkids who grew up to have a job,
and so it was really interesting.
I had that realization.
I'm like you think of a doctorand you're like, oh, this guy's
genius, right, but it's like arethey, or are they just a guy
who has a job?
He's the dude who ended up inthat job.

Pete Newsome (42:49):
You know, listen, he's probably intelligent, I've
said to work hard to get there,but look at how many mistakes
you make You're great at whatyou do.

Sam Brenner (43:00):
You make mistakes.

Pete Newsome (43:01):
I've been pretty good at what I do.
I've been doing it for a longtime.
I make mistakes every day.
And that's just part of thedeal, and so I think for
candidates who do get upsetright you see it online.
You have people get so offendedat what they're asked to do it
doesn't mean you have to do itRight.

Sam Brenner (43:20):
Right, say no Give a killer, give another option.
Exactly, exactly, great, that'sgreat stuff, sam.

Pete Newsome (43:28):
I mean, this has been gold on three different
points and we're going to recapthat in the show notes.
But as far as how you go aboutcontacting people, working to be
proactive in contacting them,sending your information over
doing what the masses won't do,and then just being a human and

(43:49):
communicating and understandingthat people will make mistakes,
I mean, if you can do thosethings, you're going to be way
ahead of the curve.

Sam Brenner (43:58):
You won't be unemployed if you're unemployed
right now.
That's for sure.

Pete Newsome (44:01):
I love it.
Well, with that I think we canwrap up, and I want to thank you
again for being so generouswith your time today and sharing
this great advice, and foranyone listening.
We'd love to hear from you, soplease follow us and share
questions at zengig.
com.
We'd love to know what's onyour mind.
And Sam, thanks again, love it.

Sam Brenner (44:23):
Thanks, Pete.

Pete Newsome (44:24):
Have a great rest of the day All right.
Thank you.