June 27, 2024 • 42 mins
Ever wondered why your resume isn’t getting the attention it deserves? We have special guest Patrick Sirmeyer, CEO of the Luxus Group. here to help us dissect the common pitfalls of applicant tracking systems (ATS) and debunk the myths around one-click applications. Patrick shares his wealth of experience in recruiting, offering actionable tips on resume formatting and the importance of specificity in job applications to boost your visibility and response rates.
Discover how to get noticed by potential employers through strategic LinkedIn connections and direct messaging. Patrick emphasizes the value of internships and even suggests taking lower-paying jobs initially to gain crucial experience. We also highlight proactive strategies for career development, including early engagement and skill development to avoid disappointment post-graduation. Learn how networking, creative value-adding, and reaching out to alumni can set you apart, with inspiring real-life success stories to illustrate these points!
Additional Resources:
- How to Be Successful After College
- Zengig's Sample Resumes and Recommendations
- Most Valuable Skills in the Job Market Today
- How to Find Keywords in a Job Description to Use in Your Resume
🧠 WANT TO LEARN MORE? Be sure to subscribe and check out https://zengig.com/
👋 FOLLOW PETE NEWSOME ONLINE:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petenewsome/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PeteNewsome
👋 FOLLOW PATRICK SIRMEYER ONLINE:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patricksirmeyer/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pete Newsome (00:00):
Welcome everyone.
My guest today is PatrickSirmeyer, who is CEO of the
Luxus Group.
We're going to be talking aboutstrategies to help young
professionals stand out intoday's very competitive job
market.
Patrick, thanks so much foryour time today.
Patrick Sirmeyer (00:11):
I'm excited to be on again.
I know we chat a lot and we'vegone over a lot of topics and
projects, but you hit a good onefor me when we discussed
today's topic, which is reallyaround advice and consultation
for those who are getting in thejob market and trying to
succeed.
Pete Newsome (00:26):
Absolutely.
It's tough out there right now,especially for young grads, so
before we get started, justshare a little bit about your
background in recruiting andstaffing.
Patrick Sirmeyer (00:34):
I'm currently on year 19, working within
agency recruiting business.
That's third party outsourcedhiring, whether it be contract
staff, full-time hiring,consulting.
There's different levels toengage and a year number 11 in
business ownership.
So I have some knowledge deep,and some of it's just kind of a
surface level.
But you know, like you justmentioned, it's a unique time
(00:55):
for a lot of people, dependingon which industry you're in when
it comes to job searching.
Pete Newsome (01:00):
Well, I'll say it for you, even though you didn't
say it yourself.
You're a true expert in thisspace and, with the success
you've had over the years, andnow, with all the success you're
having, you have a CEO of theLuxus Group, and you know, like
I do, that everyone has anopinion on the job market.
Most of these opinions arecoming from people who aren't
invested in it the way we are,who don't make a living in it
(01:20):
day to day.
They come from a great place,but what I experience constantly
and I know anyone in ourindustry does is they don't come
from a place of greatinformation and experience and
knowledge.
So, with that in mind, what aresome common misconceptions that
new grads have about the jobmarket?
Patrick Sirmeyer (01:41):
Wow, that's a loaded topic.
I could go a lot of directions.
I want to start with somethinglike actual items that I would
say to anyone who's applying tojobs.
We have what's called applicanttracking systems.
Any organization that someone'sgoing to apply to a job you
receive it's called an ATS.
You see a job posting within awebsite could be Indeed,
ziprecruiter or their owninternal site and as you go to
post your resume and put theinformation out there, it's
(02:03):
going to be received by arecruiter at our company or a
talent acquisition, anotherorganization.
What I find often is thatthere's so few people who have
applied for jobs and they havenot looked at the formatting of
their resume.
If I were to give you ascreenshot right now, I have
more than 40% of all applicantscome through and the name
doesn't even come through in afield properly.
The title doesn't come throughthe field properly, dates of
(02:24):
employment don't come throughproperly and if that stuff isn't
received and you're one ofthousands, you literally get
missed.
You get missed out onimmediately because the data
didn't port over and I wouldjust tell people first of all,
let's just go and look at theformatting of your resume
because there's a chance you'reapplying and you're getting no
replies because the data thatyou put in did not pour over to
the right way.
Pete Newsome (02:45):
So this is a this is an important point, and a
great one.
To start with, there'scandidates out there who are
applying all day long, spendingtheir day doing that, and their
resume is going into theseapplicant tracking systems with
no visibility for themwhatsoever, and they have no
idea that's happening.
That's probably the worst partabout it.
Patrick Sirmeyer (03:04):
You're right.
I see, quite often I think it'sIndeed and some others have
this one-click apply option.
I cringe when I can tell thatsomeone's on a one-click apply
because they're applying forirrelevant jobs based on some
keyword searches or maybe it'sjust some of the algorithms that
Indeed has suggested a job tothem.
You know, once again you'regoing to be in the cesspool of
applicants, and I just say thatbecause you can really change a
(03:28):
lot just on solving the thingsthat you can control, which is,
let's not do one click apply.
Let's be specific on what we'reseeking and the stuff you can
do afterward, like the steps youcan take to be proactive or
network or maybe be moreaggressive to make sure you
stand out.
Those are some tasks you can do, but just from the application
piece, I encourage people one,let's look at the format of your
(03:48):
resume.
Two, let's not do one-clickapply.
That to itself is going to putyou in a cesspool that you
almost never get an email backfor.
Pete Newsome (03:55):
So avoid the one-click apply.
But how do you solve the resumeformatting challenge?
What advice do you have there?
Patrick Sirmeyer (04:01):
Well, there's a lot of programs online.
If you were to search for, Ican recommend quite about a bit
of them.
But there's resume formattingplatforms that are out there
that will.
I think it's minimal eight to$10 per month, even just a one
time.
They'll give you somestandardized templates.
One misconception is the sexier,the nicer with the design
focused resume.
You might think it looks nicerfrom some of the graphics that
(04:24):
are on it or just the format,but the way that it's formatted
won't help you in theapplication.
Some of these organizationsonline like it's very simple
resume formatting with just theproper data and it's clarifying
everything you need.
So all that information goesthrough.
I actually done a test at onepoint where I sat in front of
(04:45):
someone who was a hiring manager.
This is in the healthcarebusiness.
They were hiring a clinicaldirector and I had put four
resumes in front of thisindividual physical resume.
This is early in my career andI thought these people were
qualified for the job and as Idid that, I had the individual
look at them.
I actually timed it on my watchto see how much time they spent
looking at each resume andthese people were already vetted
(05:06):
by us.
So we knew they were qualifiedand they were.
This person looked at eachresume for nine seconds before
they made their decision.
Nine seconds and I thought tomyself like we spent a lot more
time than nine seconds totelling you who's qualified.
But so many people are looking.
We're just busy individuals andwe all are and I think that
finding a way for someone tovery easily get information
(05:28):
you're providing, comprehend itand know within nine seconds or
less that you're someone theywant to talk to like we have to
be proactive about that asapplicants.
Pete Newsome (05:37):
So I think of resumes one of two ways.
Either as a cover of a book,right, you're browsing books,
you're trying to figure outwhat's interesting to you, what
you want to read, and the covermatters.
We can say don't judge a bookby its cover, but we all judge
books by their cover.
That's why the covers are soimportant.
And the other way are headlines, whether it's a magazine or a
(05:57):
newspaper I'm dating myself bysaying that.
But even headlines on a Googlesearch, right, that headline
makes all the difference.
What's going to make you wantto click is the same way you
should think about what is goingto make that viewer of the
resume want to dig into thedetails.
Patrick Sirmeyer (06:13):
That's a really good way to say it.
You can't fool anyone when itcomes to the resume.
We oftentimes get applicantswho have resumes that are seven
and nine pages long, and I thinktheir intent was if I overwhelm
this person with the amount ofdata I have on my resume, I
might get selected, but I mean,no one's offering jobs on the
spot like that.
You still have to interview andbe selected.
(06:34):
So you're right, a cover of thebook is a perfect way to say it
, and I think, after you'vegotten notice from the cover of
your book, your resume, youshould have something else that
you can do, or something youhave online, or some other
content, or something that wouldelaborate who you are from that
point.
Pete Newsome (06:50):
I often describe or think of a resume as having
one purpose, which is to get youto the interview stage.
Do you agree with that?
I?
Patrick Sirmeyer (07:00):
do.
I think let me say to yourpoint yes, yes, I agree that
getting you to the interviewstage is correct, but we're
talking about right now, astatus where so many thousands
of people are applying forcertain jobs.
I think hurdle number one iscan we get noticed and receive a
personalized email or call backabout a job?
(07:22):
First, because at that stagenow you get a chance to even
showcase even further from yourreply email maybe some content
Like, for instance, you mightreply back to an employer with
interest saying, hey, I reallyappreciate your time and effort
and you could find this.
You could actually create atemplate through chat, gpt.
But hey, I really appreciateyour interest in me.
I did some research on yourorganization.
One of the things I saw aboutthe job that made me want to
(07:48):
apply was this I feel as thoughI've got these skills and I feel
as though I want to learn andget better in these skills and
I'm hoping working for yourcompany could help me.
Like just that, that would be afive minute read email that
would the person who sent thatthe hiring manager, director,
whoever it might be would readthat and go, wow, this person's
really vested already.
Like we've got to interviewthis person.
Pete Newsome (08:03):
Yeah, I love that you said that.
So let me rephrase what I saida minute ago Rather than get to
the interview stage, it's to getto the next stage, whatever
that might be.
So maybe it is a reply to sayhey, thanks for sending your
application.
We think you're a potentialgood fit.
Tell me more, or at least catchsomeone's attention beyond that
nine seconds, because if youdon't catch it in that timeframe
(08:24):
you're gone forever.
One of the things that I heardrecently from a guy named Steven
Greed, who's CEO of Beam Jobsand that's who I recommend for
resume formatting we really likethe way they do things over
there.
He said make a point ofmentioning the company's name on
your resume Great way to catchcompany's attention.
Right, If you're reviewing thatresume and you see that in the
(08:46):
summary or the objectivestatement, it's going to catch
your attention because you knowit was personal and that's what
this one-click apply is reallystripped away from the
application process.
Nothing's personal, nothing'smeaningful really, and so we
don't put much value on it.
So that's what I encouragecandidates to do, whether it's I
don't really like the termcover letter.
(09:07):
I think that implies it's sortof a dated thing that implies
multiple paragraphs, but find away to share your cover story,
and that could be so manydifferent formats today, from a
handwritten note to a LinkedInmessage, to an email, as you
alluded to, or maybe even in thesummary of your resume.
Patrick Sirmeyer (09:23):
I think you're right.
I think about the idea that forevery applicant you have to
consider out there, there arepeople who are underqualified
for the job, all overqualified,and then properly qualified the
ones who are properly qualified.
The algorithms will pick up andyou'll most likely get selected
in that small percentage.
But I can tell you right nowthere's a lot of people
searching for work who are outof work.
They're overqualified for a jobbut they're humble enough to go
(09:45):
.
Hey, I recognize what the jobmarket is.
I do need employment, I havethe skills and I'm even willing
to do more for this organizationwith these skills, but I'm
being overlooked because fear is.
If you were to consider me, I'mgoing to leave for the next
highest paying job.
But the idea, in my opinion, isif you're an overqualified
individual and you're applyingfor a job, one of the things you
(10:06):
should do is take the time toevaluate and write some
information that shows where youcan add value to the company,
because one of the things I dosee lacking with applicants is
they are more thinking of whatcan you do for me, employer, as
opposed to them thinking whatcan I do for you, employer, and
I would rather see more people,especially, I'd say, new grads,
(10:30):
who don't have as muchexperience, saying, hey, here's
what I believe I can do andprovide value, and here's what
I'm willing to do for you and ifyou give me the opportunity and
give me the chance to prove it,I'm willing to do it.
Pete Newsome (10:36):
And that's what every employer wants.
Right, and as a candidate, youhave to provide what the
employer wants, because that'show you're going to be selected.
Whether you decide to acceptthe job or not is a different
discussion.
You have to get there in thefirst place.
So I want to ask you about thecompetitiveness of today's job
market, because the Bureau ofLabor Statistics, our current
(10:58):
presidential administration,they love to talk about how low
the unemployment rate is, givingthe implication that it's a
great job market.
You and I know the reality issomewhat different.
So why is it important forcandidates today to stand out?
If you're a new grad, why is itimportant to stand out in
today's job market?
Patrick Sirmeyer (11:17):
First of all, those statistics are skewed.
We have a whole nother podcastabout the factors that we're not
considering.
First of all, the people whohaven't been employed in a long
time.
Those have gone to the gigeconomy at 1099.
I mean, there's just so manyfactors within that.
But if you're a new graduate andyou're now looking at
employment and you're trying tofigure out a way to
differentiate yourself we justgot done talking about the topic
of applying for jobs I wouldactually first say throw that
(11:39):
out.
Sure, you can go apply for ajob, but unless you're a
licensed professional which,depending on what that
profession is, there's such ademand for that, if you're going
to be in a status where thereare some just subjective
qualities in which the employeris seeking, you have to find
uniquely creative ways to go outthere and market yourself.
First one, I would say isnetworking, and not just general
(12:01):
networking.
The first thing most studentsthink about is I'm going to go
to networking events and I'mgoing to go to all these local
produced events that are withinmy city.
I don't mean to that effect.
I've been a couple and I'venever gone back.
First thing I always tell peopleto do is you need to get
noticed.
Right, you go to the employerthat you're interested in, you
find some of the departmentsyou're interested in and you
start searching on LinkedIn andyou start connecting with those
(12:23):
people.
You connect with a shortmessage hey, so-and-so.
I just wanted to introducemyself.
I don't think we've connectedbefore, but I love the work you
do and I'm very interested inyour company.
You don't have to put yourpitch out there not saying I
applied for a job.
Look at my resume.
No, you're getting noticed.
If it's a small enough company,they're going to list off quite
a few and I'm going to say well, there was this guy named John
(12:44):
Smith that connected with me.
And now suddenly you start toget some communication
internally within the companywhere people are talking about
you.
So I would say first you got toget noticed through some
LinkedIn connecting and I knowthis is like not for a lot of
people, but I can tell you rightnow if you're willing to have a
side gig, job, whatever itmight be, and then go to an
(13:04):
organization and say I recognizethat I'm not qualified, but I
am willing to provide my effortif you give me a chance at a
lower pay scale to start, orunpaid to start and if you will
evaluate me every three to sixmonths to see if I've learned
the skills to actually do thisjob on a full-time basis or to a
relevant pay scale in whichyou'd pay a qualified person,
(13:25):
I'd be interested.
That's how much I'm interestedin working for your company.
I can tell you that I currentlyhave an employee right now who
came to me six months ago withthat same approach.
He wanted to get in therecruiting industry and he was
willing to go for minimum wageto start because he had no
experience, only to take sixmonths to get up to a relevant
pay to what I pay someone withexperience.
Pete Newsome (13:45):
That is such great advice and it's such a small
timescale that we're talkingabout that you can offer that
for, and it doesn't have to befor 40 hours a week.
It could be for 10 hours a week, it could be for 20.
But the education and exposureyou will have for that, gaining
relevant experience, is worthits weight in gold, and I know
that a lot of people on the jobmarket maybe young professionals
(14:13):
don't want to hear that.
But you have to extend yourtimeline of your career and
think if you spend three monthsdoing that, six months doing
that it will pay for itself somany times over in the course of
your career.
I think it's perfect advice togive.
Patrick Sirmeyer (14:24):
Yeah, when you do an internship, you know well
I actually get quite a fewpeople to ask me for a paid
internship and if I were tooffer an unpaid internship
they're going to go elsewhere.
And I recognize it's better tobe paid than not.
But just keep in mind like theability to do an unpaid
internship shows a lot aboutyour interest and character in
that piece.
But if you were to do aninternship and you go to the
supervisor you're interning forand say, hey, in the three
months that I'll be with you,I'm curious what do you hope
(14:47):
that I will learn or what kindof skills do you expect me to
develop?
Ask that of the person as youstart and then, when you finish,
have an exit meeting and sayhey, on a one to 10 scale.
How do you think I've developedin those skills and what would
you say to me on that topic?
Pete Newsome (15:06):
When do you think someone should do that?
I mean, I wanted to talk to youabout things that students can
do right, because a lot of timesgrads won't realize they have a
problem until they're gettingclose to graduation or have
graduated and it's time for thequote real world, and then they
realize, oops, my degree is notas marketable as I thought it
was going to be.
So we'd like to prevent aproblem versus solving it.
So what advice do you have forstudents?
(15:27):
That's a great one, to startwith, the unpaid internship.
Patrick Sirmeyer (15:30):
Yeah, one of the most disheartening things as
a college student is to gettowards your senior year, or
close to it, only to realizethat the degree you chose is not
going to be the same as yoursenior year.
It only has a couple of paths.
One there's very few jobopportunities that are going to
be specialized within it.
And then number two what a lotof people do they go?
I'm going to go get an advanceddegree master's, you know,
doctorate and not to say they'rebad, it's just that that wasn't
(15:53):
the path you.
You deferred the path of, ofcareer development because
something wasn't just falling inyour lap, and I think that's
where I see the difference.
It's just we're just not in atime right now in which things
will fall in your lap.
When I look at what someone cando to differentiate themselves,
we'll go back to the networkingpiece.
You could do that at a youngage and start networking and try
(16:15):
to find opportunities.
Find people who graduated yourcollege.
I keep an ongoing LinkedInfilter search of people who
graduated my college at anygiven time and I just want to
see what they're doing.
If you had a 10-minuteconversation with three people a
week who graduate youruniversity or your degree
program, only to find out whatthey're doing.
That's wisdom in itself andpeople would love to give that
advice because you know what?
(16:36):
Someone might have taken a paththat you're on and say hey, let
me just save you some headacheand I would guide you to go this
direction instead.
Pete Newsome (16:43):
I recently had a new grad ask me for help.
Who wants to work in a certainindustry?
And I happen to have someconnections there and I offered
that I would make a personalreferral if he sent a
handwritten note to someonewho's very much in a leadership
position in this industry.
Now I've suggested that todozens of new grads and young
people and no one ever does it.
(17:04):
No one ever takes that step towrite the handwritten note.
But you know, as I do, it'smeaningful, it stands out, it's
different, right, and that'swhat we're talking about.
You've said that you, you wantto get noticed.
What a great way to get noticed, because no one else is doing
it right.
Go where the competition is not.
Well, this, this young guy didit and surprised me and he said
two days later he called me,said I did, I sent a letter
(17:25):
yesterday.
Now you gotta make the phonecall right.
And and I did.
And the guy who he sent it towas so impressed I said listen,
I did not obligate you to doanything.
I assumed he wasn't going to doit, but I'm making the call,
I've got to keep my end of thebargain.
And he said pete, I love it,I'm going to call him directly.
And this is a guy who is, like Isaid, is at the top of his
industry and made the call andhas taken steps to help this
(17:49):
young guy.
And I love it because you and Iknow that people who are older,
who are in their profession,love seeing that kind of
ambition in young professionals,because that's what we want in
employees.
So we're inclined to helpanyone who asks for it
proactively.
Patrick Sirmeyer (18:05):
You know ambition and the ability to look
for creative ways to add value.
It takes time.
I recognize that everyone'sbrain is like pre-wired.
I mean, you got to think I'm 18, 19 years into my industry, so
it's hard for me to think aboutas my 22-year-old self.
Graduating college.
I've also been in kind of thesales format, so I've developed
those skills and now I've gotthat confidence.
But if I try to go back to my22-year-old self and think, okay
(18:27):
, I didn't have those skills, Ididn't have that confidence.
I think I was proactive.
One thing I would say I wasproactive, but not every young
adult is that way and I thinkthat takes practice, like
everything else, and it willfeel uncomfortable the first
time you do it.
You like everything else and itwill feel uncomfortable the
first time you do it.
You will feel uncomfortable andI think the second time it will
, but you'll eventually breakyourself with that.
There's a story that TonyRobbins used to talk about.
(18:48):
It was a real estate agent andI don't remember the call, but
it was in California and thisreal estate agent was looking
for a way to sell more homes andhe wanted to get his name in
this really lucrativeneighborhood but he didn't know
how to break in.
So what ended up happening wasthe whoever with the company was
contracted to pick up trash hadgone on strike or dropped the
contract, and so this reallynice neighborhood actually went
(19:09):
probably a month.
Trash is piling up in the front, it's getting really smelly,
and so what this guy did wasactually Tony Robbins was the
one that gave him this advice,but this guy went ahead and he
paid his own dollars to have thetrash picked up and he didn't
even tell anybody about it.
But then later on, when theneighborhood was actually clean,
he started a network and meetsome people and he let them know
(19:31):
that I did that as a value add.
Well, he ended up over thecourse, I think, selling like 20
or $30 million worth of homesover the course of years within
this neighborhood, all becausehe did something that was a pain
point for them.
He found it, he did it on hisown dime and dollar and he
created value there.
And then there was somethingelse he was looking for that
they were willing to trust himwith, and I think the same thing
(19:52):
goes for a new graduate orsomeone.
Applying is like go find amentor or a person that you want
and what can you do for thatperson?
What else could you do for thatindividual that they have a
pain point for?
And then you get theirattention.
Pete Newsome (20:06):
Yeah, and you, we want the income right, as anyone
who spends time wants to bepaid for it.
But what you're going to be paidwhen you're starting out is is
relatively little, even if it isat the current wages, for what
new grads are getting.
And you have to consider thatthe person who's willing to take
you on as a mentor or if you'regoing to be an intern, that is,
(20:27):
they're investing a lot of timeand effort in you, even before
they actually write you a check.
So that is what I think is sovaluable is the ability to learn
.
I mean, you could almost make acase this might sound silly
that that's worth paying someonefor, right?
I mean, I know what's in myhead and the experience that I
have that if I could impart onsomeone just coming out of
school, or if someone in myposition now could have imparted
(20:50):
that on me coming out of school, it was definitely worth more
than what I learned in college.
But I didn't have thatperspective then right, you have
to have the experience in orderto benefit from it.
Patrick Sirmeyer (21:04):
I'll tell you.
I've told every employee that'scome to work for one of my
companies.
I say look, you know we'veagreed to a wage in which you
started and we're going toevaluate you every quarter and
your performance and every yearfor some type of compensation
change.
And I tell them this early on.
What I would encourage you todo is you should get to a point
in that yearly or quarterlyevaluation where you are
compelling me to want to changethat compensation structure for
(21:25):
you in a positive way.
I said what you need to be ableto do is that when I come to
the table and we have thoseevaluations that I realized that
the odds are tilted way in yourfavor.
You've done so much for thecompany that's measurable and
that we've talked about that youit's almost like you don't even
ask for it, like it should beevaluated in that fashion.
I see way too many people thatare just as I mentioned earlier,
(21:46):
they're looking for like whatwill this company give me, what
will they do for me?
And they're comparing all thebenefits and that's fine, I get
that.
You know, I would rather be ina spot where I've given more to
an organization they've given me, because it just I just feel
like I'm in the power seat thewhole time, and maybe that's
something I've developed overyears, but that's what I
encourage people to do.
Pete Newsome (22:05):
Yeah, and it's been a popular sentiment over
the past few years to not havethat attitude and perspective.
But I think the pendulum isswinging the other way.
I mean, I really have a lot offaith and confidence in what I'm
seeing from Gen Z.
I'm biased because my four kidsare Gen Z and so I'm around
their friends a lot.
I'm very encouraged.
I have a bunch of Gen Zemployees now and they are
(22:26):
taking that approach.
But be careful.
What you see and hear on socialmedia suggesting you do
otherwise.
By doing more, by going aboveand beyond, which is such a
tried and true thing to apply,you have more power than you
realize, because when companiesdownsize, make cuts that's
(22:48):
happening a lot these daysthey're not cutting the most
valuable employees, they'recutting the ones who are at the
bottom of the list, and not onlydo you not want to be that, you
want to be the one that they'refighting to keep.
And the way to do that is to goabove and beyond, and it seems
so simple on the surface, butit's not done frequently enough.
Why do you?
Do you have a thought on whythat is?
Patrick Sirmeyer (23:09):
One of the things I think about is I think
I said to you earlier, before westarted recording we're in a
time, right now, where we don'tmeasure experience based on time
anymore.
Okay, so you don't say I have10 years of experience and you
have 12, and you have 15, whohas who's more qualified or who
has, you know, better knowledge.
We're in accelerated learning,really accelerated learning.
(23:33):
In the world we live, in, you,someone can come and learn as
much as I've learned in twoyears in my 18.
Now, to do that, though, theyhave to consume all the right
information.
They have to have a path toconsume that.
That could be YouTube andvideos, and mentorship, and
physical work, and there's justa lot of facets to be able to
get yourself to that point.
But that ambition, though, Idon't see as much, and it might
(23:55):
be because so many things aboutour world are convenient right
now.
One thing I was telling youearlier is I would love to see
every young adult, high schoolto college pick a path.
One of the things I find is, ifyou don't pick a path of what
you want to pursue, of somethingyou're working towards, that is
where you start to waver inlife, and sometimes when you're
(24:18):
young at least when I think,when I was younger if I was
wavering and I didn't have apath of something I was working
towards, that's when justnegative things started to
happen in my life.
But I've gone down a lot ofpaths where I've, like, worked
towards something.
It didn't work to the level Iwanted, but I had a lot of
knowledge and experience, a lotof memories, and then I took a
different path and then that,just over the course of time,
added up to the career I'm intoday.
I just look at many youngadults now where I think, oh, if
(24:41):
you just need to take a path,because some of them are so I
don't know, confused about whatto do, they do nothing.
And that's usually what happenswhen people, when they're
confused.
Pete Newsome (24:50):
Well it's.
It's a conflicting message ofthoughts, right, Because you do
have time.
You have this long runway.
It's a phrase that I've usedyou used it earlier before we
started recording today wheredon't feel pressure to know
where you're going to end up,but it's okay and necessary
perhaps to feel pressure to worktowards that end.
And that does mean going ahundred percent in whatever it
(25:11):
is you're doing, to figure outwhether it is something you're
going to have interest in,aptitude for, whether you know
if you're not good at it.
You probably have to have thatrealization at some point, Right
, I always use the example If Iwant to, if I want to be a
ballerina, it doesn't matter howbadly I want it, I'm just not
equipped for that, right.
So that's a reality of it too.
But I agree with you 100% thatif you are going into college or
(25:36):
you're in college now and yourmajor is undeclared, your number
one mission should be focusingon figuring out what,
acknowledging that it's okay ifyou're wrong right.
Because if you find out you'rewrong at 22, because you went a
hundred percent in thatdirection of thinking that is
what you wanted to do, there isno real penalty, right, for that
(25:59):
.
You have so much time to makeup for it.
I mean, I look at your twentiesas your freshman year, right,
and so you have that much timeto figure it out.
But figure it out by the timeyou get your sophomore year
right, by the time you're 30.
So that's the lens that Iencourage young people,
including my own children, tolook at that through is it's
(26:19):
okay if you don't know, but it'snot okay to not do something
about it.
Right, you need to be figuringthat out as quickly, as fast as
and hard as you can.
But it's okay to be wrong, andthat sounds like a conflicting
message at times.
Patrick Sirmeyer (26:32):
I think we're more likely to see young adults
now have multiple careers, morethan two, maybe even or three,
in the course of their overallworking days.
Also, because, going back tothe idea of accelerated learning
not going to be that Pete orPatrick have 20 plus years in
this industry I mean we're kindof hanging our hat on that.
But like if another young adultsays, hey, in my 15 years of
(26:54):
working, I was able toaccomplish this in in, you know,
phase one and accomplish thisin phase two and this in phase
three.
I mean that's a lot ofknowledge and that's a lot of
experience overall.
And we live in this time nowwhere you can take those paths
in different directions.
You don't have to always godeep and forever.
And you know we just used tojoke.
You know, 30 years with onecompany, I still.
You have employers that willservice and I look at their
(27:16):
LinkedIn.
I'm like, wow, this guy's beenwith a company 35 years.
Such a rare bird.
I don't see that anymore.
You know, I've asked a lot ofemployers today and maybe you
can answer this one for me,which is I asked him.
I say how long would you expectan employee to stay with you to
(27:36):
feel like you it was a goodinvestment of the time you spent
training that person.
I ask that quite often and Iget a lot of answers.
But what do you think?
Pete Newsome (27:40):
most employers in their fifties or sixties are
going to say I'll say that theyprobably give you an answer
that's much higher than realityand that they would be happy
with.
I would guess they would answerprobably in the neighborhood of
10 years, where you know threeto five is probably more realist
.
Patrick Sirmeyer (27:53):
It's it, you, you nailed it.
Three to five is realistic.
They want 10.
I just eternity.
Pete Newsome (28:02):
And it is.
It is a dated mentality.
The world is moving way toofast right now for that.
But I also think it makes senseto go in with an agreement on
both sides of is this a good fitfor now?
We don't know what the futureholds, and that's okay.
This concept of loyalty is onethat I talk about a lot.
It shouldn't be part of thedeal, right, it should be a
(28:25):
day-to-day decision.
Almost.
You're not getting married.
It's employment.
You're trading your time andskill for compensation, and the
minute that doesn't make sensefor either side, it should be
okay for that relationship toend.
And if we have that mentality,I think we'd be a lot happier.
I'm personally a big fan of thefreelance market for that
(28:45):
reason, because there's noexpectation of future commitment
.
Right it's.
Does this make sense today?
As long as we still say yes,it's great, and you nailed it.
We don't.
That's okay.
It's okay to separate.
Patrick Sirmeyer (28:59):
I don't think we ever talked about this topic.
Your philosophy on employmentis identical to mine.
I say it to the employeesprobably at least once a year.
Usually I say it at like ayear-end party or New York
kickoff party.
I say look, every morning youwake up and you have to make a
decision.
Is this where you want to be?
And I hope that you say yes andthen you're going to show it
with your actions and yourpassion.
But I have the same pressure.
(29:21):
It's a reverse side where Ihave to wake up and decide can I
produce a business and aproduct and the ability in this
situation that you want to workfor?
That you have opportunity, withthat you feel you can grow with
and like, if I wake up and I domy part and you wake up to your
part, like every day, we justmake that decision together.
But you might come to a point,at one point you wake up one day
and say this isn't for me, andthen I can feel good about it
(29:41):
because we've made that decisionevery day up until now and
we're just going to part waysamicably.
Pete Newsome (29:47):
And the truth is it would be hypocritical to
suggest otherwise because I'vequit every job I've had except
for this one.
You only end your career havingnot left one job, either
through your own choice orsomeone else's.
So, there's a natural end tothings and we have to be okay
with that.
But I want to get back on track, because you mentioned skills
(30:07):
earlier.
Talk to me a little bit aboutskills you think young
professionals need to have, andwhich skills are most important
for young professionals to havein today's market.
Patrick Sirmeyer (30:17):
So we're going to put technical related skills
to whatever career that youwant to decide, because if you
want the technical skills towhatever career path you're
choosing, there's a lot ofonline programs that you can
find that'll help educatingthose skills.
Pete Newsome (30:30):
Like I mentioned, you can do internships, things
like that but if you want to bean accountant, you have to have
strong accounting skills.
If you want to be a softwaredeveloper, you have to have
strong software developmentskills.
Patrick Sirmeyer (30:40):
So in our conversation, we're making
assumptions that you're going tohave the skills or find a path
to develop them, so we're goingto put that aside because
otherwise you wouldn't beconsidered.
But now we're looking at thingslike what creates success
between you and your potentialemployer or the employment
scenario you're choosing, andthat success comes down a lot to
communication.
(31:00):
So we live in a digital erawhere we do so much
communication over email, textand just different social
platforms, and we would allagree that at some point we have
assumed improperly or heard arelationship through some form
of text-related conversation.
I try to encourage everyone mykids as well to have live
conversations with people andthe idea of where you're trying
(31:21):
to find employment or find agood working relationship, you
should be proactive.
Don't always rely on youremployer to do that.
Our good friend that we bothknow, casey Jaycox, he teaches
this format and it's nowingrained in me and I would
encourage everybody to practicethis.
He calls it TED.
It's tell me, explain, describe.
And it's just this questionasking format of deeper
knowledge to obtain informationfrom someone.
(31:43):
Instead of saying hey, whatabout?
Or this, ask more intelligentquestions, I'd say, hey, pete,
can you tell me about X, y, z,can you explain to me X, y, z?
Can you describe to me and bydoing that it's conversational,
and whether it be the mentoryou're looking for, the manager
you want to work for, like, askthose kinds of questions and
find out?
Like I'm saying, networking butbe compelling in a way that you
(32:05):
can actually have conversationwith people that are important
and giving you knowledge.
One thing I always do on everyemail, no matter what the email
is, I always send an email tosomebody and I ask them a
question at the end.
I want conversation, I wantdialogue, I want us to go back
and forth, but I never make juststatement related emails and I
think if you're just trying tonetwork, you want to be able to
do that same kind of concept.
Pete Newsome (32:26):
I love it.
A friend of mine years ago saidbe interested versus
interesting.
And I think that's such asimple way to approach having a
conversation with anyone.
And you could talk to anyone atany time by simply asking them
questions, and I tell themnothing about myself.
(32:48):
I just ask them questions, I'mshowing interest in them.
We will walk away from thatconversation and they'll think
I'm a great guy.
Yeah, for no reason, right, Igave them nothing about myself,
my interests, my likes, dislikesbut I just asked them about
themselves.
And that is human nature 101.
If you approach your businessrelationships the same way, try
(33:13):
to learn about those you'reworking with, learn from them,
right, while you're learningabout them.
That is all you have to do.
And it is such an easy way tohold a conversation with someone
without putting pressure ofbeing interesting.
Right, because that's hard.
I don't want to have to perform.
That's stressful.
Do you agree with that?
Patrick Sirmeyer (33:30):
I agree.
First of all, our favoritetopic is ourselves.
We want to hear about ourselvesall the time you ask someone
enough questions about them,they're going to walk away
loving you.
Did you ever see the moviePursuit of Happiness with Will
Smith?
Yes, Okay, you know that famousscene where the guy's getting
out of the Ferrari I think he'sa stockbroker and Will Smith's
walking by after his rough dayand then the guy tells him you
know, I'm, I'm a stock broker.
Will Smith was having a roughday but, like he didn't have to
(33:52):
stop and ask this guy, he couldtell the man was successful, but
he wanted to know, like dude,what exactly is it you do?
And I can tell you right now,success would love being asked
that question.
In fact, there's a lot ofYouTube videos that people just
go around and say, hey, how'dyou make your millions?
Pete Newsome (34:06):
It's just human nature, right, which we can't
fight, but we should payattention to, because that's how
success happens right, and weall have to be able to work with
each other.
Any other skills that come tomind for today's marketplace.
Patrick Sirmeyer (34:18):
I add value for that individual and I know
again, I'm speaking to the biasstandpoint because I've worked
in sales Point being is like theskills of being compelling
through sales and questionasking.
I would encourage everyone tojust take some kind of course or
get some kind of training tocome out of your comfort zone
because it's easy for me.
I'm not a full extrovert but Ihave extrovert tendencies, so of
(34:41):
course I'm willing to beinquisitive and ask questions
and dialogue and things likethat.
But if you're an introvertedindividual and you're thinking
like, ooh, that would be like myworst nightmare.
You know to go around askingpeople questions, I get that.
But when I say network, I meanyou could just talk to your best
friend and say, hey, man, whatdoes your dad do for a living?
(35:08):
I'm just curious, you know, andyour best friend could be like
questions that you want to askpeople.
The old book years ago was byNapoleon Hill, where he actually
interviewed all these wealthypeople to figure out how they
made their riches.
He was able to figure out,write a book around all these
characteristics about that.
Now take that well over time.
And now we have today differentformats of YouTube where you
can ask those same questions topeople and find out.
(35:29):
Where did you get that?
But that inquisitive nature,that would probably be the
number one skill that I couldtell someone to.
If not develop, just be in thehabit of practicing it.
Pete Newsome (35:38):
So I have that book behind me.
There's 13 steps, I believe itis that he talks about, on how
to be successful, and what's sogreat about it is that book was
written around a hundred yearsago and it's universally
applicable.
Today, the same things apply.
The words and phrases may havechanged a little bit, but how
success happens has not everchanged in our modern worlds.
(36:00):
You mentioned earlier about thedigital world that we're in.
How much does personal brandingmatter to young professionals
today?
Patrick Sirmeyer (36:08):
I'm going to write that up.
I think this is a topic you andI were talking earlier about
the idea of athletes and youngathletes.
Today and we're living in thisworld, this evolving NIL name
and likeness and the ability tomake money from that I think if
you I use them as an examplelike not a professional, but
they're pursuing their athleticcareer, like they go out there
in early age and they start tocreate a personal brand online
(36:31):
and digitally.
You know, be conscious of whatyou're doing.
I quite often Google my name tosee what comes up in my first
school rankings to make surethat the content I wanted to
come up, because you know I'mout there and relevant.
But if you're in your teens, Iknow what's most likely is you
just got some social mediaplatforms and you're just
posting with your friends andyou know where you went on
vacation and what you did thisweekend.
I would encourage people tojust be more conscious about
(36:52):
what you're posting, how you'reposting and I don't mean from
the idea of, hey, don't postsomething scandalous because an
employer might see it.
I mean, maybe go out there andcreate your own blog, you know,
write your own topics of whatyou think is important.
Go out there and create somecontent around the things that
are most you're passionate about.
And you know, I've often tellpeople that.
You know, we live in this timeframe where you can, I don't say
(37:14):
create an avatar, but you canat least just put out there the
information, what people knowabout you and it's important you
want to be found.
We live in a time now whereit's more skeptical when you
can't find someone online thanwhen you can, and so I
understand the privacy.
If I Google somebody andthere's nothing on them, it
doesn't mean it's true.
It just means that I thinkthere's something skeptical
about the individual as opposedto what I could find from them.
Pete Newsome (37:36):
There's so much time spent on social media.
Young, old, it doesn't reallymatter.
We're all living in that worldtoday, and what I think is so
important is to be a creator ofcontent versus just a consumer
of it.
So yes, we're all going toconsume it, but find a way to
create it to help yourprofessional persona out there,
for lack of a better way to putit.
(37:56):
So if you are a marketer, forexample, show some of your
digital creativity on there.
If you're sales, makecompelling videos.
If you're in technology, youhave opportunity to showcase
that too.
So each channel has its ownnuance.
If you're thinking of that, Ithink it's such good advice that
you just gave, and probably theperfect amount of advice is
(38:18):
think about how you want to beviewed as a professional, not
just as a person.
Patrick Sirmeyer (38:23):
We seem to only like micro-size that to
sports, when the reality isguess what?
As a young adult who's hopingto develop my career, I want to
be scouted too.
Come find me, you know, findthat line and go.
Hey, I want to collaborate onsomething with you because
you're really good at X, and ifyou want to be scouted and you
put out content, otherwiseyou're going to have to be the
one pursuing things you know onyour own.
Pete Newsome (38:46):
And, once again, this is something you can do
while you're a student.
You can do it in school.
Put things that you're learningor apply things that you're
learning in class right now.
Share your projects online.
Start building yourprofessional resume, so to speak
, and professional reputationMaybe that's a better way to put
it as soon as you can.
I think that is great advicethat probably very few young
(39:08):
people take advantage of,because they're thinking of the
moment right, just like you did.
You said you put yourself inthe mind of your 22 year old
self.
I know where my 18 to 22 yearold self was, and it wasn't
thinking of what was going to bethe best thing for me to do for
benefit over the next 20, 30years.
That's for sure.
I wasn't thinking that at all,but it's an easy thing to add
(39:30):
right.
Put all your fun videos, butevery once in a while, sprinkle
in some professional stylecontent and it'll go a long way
towards building that reputation.
I love it All right, soactionable advice.
I've kept you on longer than Itold you I would, patrick, but
this has been so valuable.
Anything that you knowresources or overall advice or
guidance you'd like to give tosomeone who's either in school
(39:54):
or has recently graduated.
Patrick Sirmeyer (39:56):
Yeah.
So here's easy, actual advice,and maybe it'll take you a lot
of places from here.
It's going to sound soelementary, but first find a
potential mentor.
Your potential mentor mightjust be your parents, one of
your parents, uncle, grandparent, neighbor, friend's dad, mom,
whatever.
It could be a person who'sthree years older than you, was
in your fraternity and nowgraduated.
A potential mentor for a shortperiod of time, meaning like
(40:18):
someone to bounce ideas off ofand ask some questions.
Be vulnerable to ask thatperson questions.
Prepare, I would say, forexample, if you're even say
we'll just use college, becauseusually they're thinking of a
career at that point.
You're in college, you're comingup on your junior year I know
it wouldn't wait your senioryear.
You start listing some thingsof what you hope you'd like to
do.
You find, for instance, I oftenask this question what are you
(40:41):
good at Like?
What do you have some skills at?
Okay, what do you love to do?
And we really hope that they'rethe same.
They have some overlap andthey're the same thing.
I find sometimes that I might begood at something and I don't
love it.
There's something that I loveand I'm not good at it.
Now the question is which onedo you want to pursue?
Do you want to go and pursuesomething you're really good at
(41:01):
but don't love?
I'd probably not encourage that.
What if something you have alot of interest in, you know
skills at?
That's going to be a hardhurdle.
You're going to have to thentake those lists that you're
making and go all right, I'mgoing to have to develop these
skills.
Or you go I don't know whatskills I should develop.
There's where your mentor comesin Find the person a couple
steps ahead of you and go hey,by the way, I have a lot of
interest in this, I want to gothis path.
What would you do differently?
(41:22):
What did you do that you feltlike what would be the top three
things that I can do right nowto put myself on that path?
And then you got to starttaking those actions.
When I say make a plan, I knowit sounds dumb, but you just
start with a list, you take alittle action.
Something about taking actionin the right direction just puts
(41:43):
motivation to it, and I oftentell people you operate by
self-discipline and imposeddiscipline in most areas of your
life.
I find that when I was younger,I really needed imposed
discipline areas of your life.
I find that when I was youngerI really needed imposed
discipline.
I needed to go put myselfaround people who would tell me
what to do until my brain couldproperly grasp the idea of like.
Here's the path I'm on.
Today.
I have a lot of self-disciplinein my life because I've had to
develop it, but I have not asmuch imposed.
(42:05):
But when I was younger it wasjust all imposed and there's
nothing wrong with that.
Go find ways where peopledirect your attention, direct
your steps and just follow them.
I won't say blindly, but followthem with the intent of I'm
going to go down this path for afew steps, evaluate myself and
then move forward.
So actual items is put down, alist what are you good at?
What are you passionate about?
Let's see if they align.
Pete Newsome (42:33):
Go, find yourself that kind of mentor coach and
then ask for the three to fivethings that you could do to help
put you on that path.
I cannot think of a betterclosing statement.
So I want to end there, becausethat was perfect advice that
everyone who's young can takeadvantage of.
Patrick Surmeyer, luxus Groupman, thank you so much for your
time today.
This has been wonderful.
Patrick Sirmeyer (42:49):
Thanks, Pete.
Pete Newsome (42:50):
Talk to you soon.
Welcome everyone.
My guest today is PatrickSirmeyer, who is CEO of the
Luxus Group.
We're going to be talking aboutstrategies to help young
professionals stand out intoday's very competitive job
market.
Patrick, thanks so much foryour time today.
Patrick Sirmeyer (00:11):
I'm excited to be on again.
I know we chat a lot and we'vegone over a lot of topics and
projects, but you hit a good onefor me when we discussed
today's topic, which is reallyaround advice and consultation
for those who are getting in thejob market and trying to
succeed.
Pete Newsome (00:26):
Absolutely.
It's tough out there right now,especially for young grads, so
before we get started, justshare a little bit about your
background in recruiting andstaffing.
Patrick Sirmeyer (00:34):
I'm currently on year 19, working within
agency recruiting business.
That's third party outsourcedhiring, whether it be contract
staff, full-time hiring,consulting.
There's different levels toengage and a year number 11 in
business ownership.
So I have some knowledge deep,and some of it's just kind of a
surface level.
But you know, like you justmentioned, it's a unique time
(00:55):
for a lot of people, dependingon which industry you're in when
it comes to job searching.
Pete Newsome (01:00):
Well, I'll say it for you, even though you didn't
say it yourself.
You're a true expert in thisspace and, with the success
you've had over the years, andnow, with all the success you're
having, you have a CEO of theLuxus Group, and you know, like
I do, that everyone has anopinion on the job market.
Most of these opinions arecoming from people who aren't
invested in it the way we are,who don't make a living in it
(01:20):
day to day.
They come from a great place,but what I experience constantly
and I know anyone in ourindustry does is they don't come
from a place of greatinformation and experience and
knowledge.
So, with that in mind, what aresome common misconceptions that
new grads have about the jobmarket?
Patrick Sirmeyer (01:41):
Wow, that's a loaded topic.
I could go a lot of directions.
I want to start with somethinglike actual items that I would
say to anyone who's applying tojobs.
We have what's called applicanttracking systems.
Any organization that someone'sgoing to apply to a job you
receive it's called an ATS.
You see a job posting within awebsite could be Indeed,
ziprecruiter or their owninternal site and as you go to
post your resume and put theinformation out there, it's
(02:03):
going to be received by arecruiter at our company or a
talent acquisition, anotherorganization.
What I find often is thatthere's so few people who have
applied for jobs and they havenot looked at the formatting of
their resume.
If I were to give you ascreenshot right now, I have
more than 40% of all applicantscome through and the name
doesn't even come through in afield properly.
The title doesn't come throughthe field properly, dates of
(02:24):
employment don't come throughproperly and if that stuff isn't
received and you're one ofthousands, you literally get
missed.
You get missed out onimmediately because the data
didn't port over and I wouldjust tell people first of all,
let's just go and look at theformatting of your resume
because there's a chance you'reapplying and you're getting no
replies because the data thatyou put in did not pour over to
the right way.
Pete Newsome (02:45):
So this is a this is an important point, and a
great one.
To start with, there'scandidates out there who are
applying all day long, spendingtheir day doing that, and their
resume is going into theseapplicant tracking systems with
no visibility for themwhatsoever, and they have no
idea that's happening.
That's probably the worst partabout it.
Patrick Sirmeyer (03:04):
You're right.
I see, quite often I think it'sIndeed and some others have
this one-click apply option.
I cringe when I can tell thatsomeone's on a one-click apply
because they're applying forirrelevant jobs based on some
keyword searches or maybe it'sjust some of the algorithms that
Indeed has suggested a job tothem.
You know, once again you'regoing to be in the cesspool of
applicants, and I just say thatbecause you can really change a
(03:28):
lot just on solving the thingsthat you can control, which is,
let's not do one click apply.
Let's be specific on what we'reseeking and the stuff you can
do afterward, like the steps youcan take to be proactive or
network or maybe be moreaggressive to make sure you
stand out.
Those are some tasks you can do, but just from the application
piece, I encourage people one,let's look at the format of your
(03:48):
resume.
Two, let's not do one-clickapply.
That to itself is going to putyou in a cesspool that you
almost never get an email backfor.
Pete Newsome (03:55):
So avoid the one-click apply.
But how do you solve the resumeformatting challenge?
What advice do you have there?
Patrick Sirmeyer (04:01):
Well, there's a lot of programs online.
If you were to search for, Ican recommend quite about a bit
of them.
But there's resume formattingplatforms that are out there
that will.
I think it's minimal eight to$10 per month, even just a one
time.
They'll give you somestandardized templates.
One misconception is the sexier,the nicer with the design
focused resume.
You might think it looks nicerfrom some of the graphics that
(04:24):
are on it or just the format,but the way that it's formatted
won't help you in theapplication.
Some of these organizationsonline like it's very simple
resume formatting with just theproper data and it's clarifying
everything you need.
So all that information goesthrough.
I actually done a test at onepoint where I sat in front of
(04:45):
someone who was a hiring manager.
This is in the healthcarebusiness.
They were hiring a clinicaldirector and I had put four
resumes in front of thisindividual physical resume.
This is early in my career andI thought these people were
qualified for the job and as Idid that, I had the individual
look at them.
I actually timed it on my watchto see how much time they spent
looking at each resume andthese people were already vetted
(05:06):
by us.
So we knew they were qualifiedand they were.
This person looked at eachresume for nine seconds before
they made their decision.
Nine seconds and I thought tomyself like we spent a lot more
time than nine seconds totelling you who's qualified.
But so many people are looking.
We're just busy individuals andwe all are and I think that
finding a way for someone tovery easily get information
(05:28):
you're providing, comprehend itand know within nine seconds or
less that you're someone theywant to talk to like we have to
be proactive about that asapplicants.
Pete Newsome (05:37):
So I think of resumes one of two ways.
Either as a cover of a book,right, you're browsing books,
you're trying to figure outwhat's interesting to you, what
you want to read, and the covermatters.
We can say don't judge a bookby its cover, but we all judge
books by their cover.
That's why the covers are soimportant.
And the other way are headlines, whether it's a magazine or a
(05:57):
newspaper I'm dating myself bysaying that.
But even headlines on a Googlesearch, right, that headline
makes all the difference.
What's going to make you wantto click is the same way you
should think about what is goingto make that viewer of the
resume want to dig into thedetails.
Patrick Sirmeyer (06:13):
That's a really good way to say it.
You can't fool anyone when itcomes to the resume.
We oftentimes get applicantswho have resumes that are seven
and nine pages long, and I thinktheir intent was if I overwhelm
this person with the amount ofdata I have on my resume, I
might get selected, but I mean,no one's offering jobs on the
spot like that.
You still have to interview andbe selected.
(06:34):
So you're right, a cover of thebook is a perfect way to say it
, and I think, after you'vegotten notice from the cover of
your book, your resume, youshould have something else that
you can do, or something youhave online, or some other
content, or something that wouldelaborate who you are from that
point.
Pete Newsome (06:50):
I often describe or think of a resume as having
one purpose, which is to get youto the interview stage.
Do you agree with that?
I?
Patrick Sirmeyer (07:00):
do.
I think let me say to yourpoint yes, yes, I agree that
getting you to the interviewstage is correct, but we're
talking about right now, astatus where so many thousands
of people are applying forcertain jobs.
I think hurdle number one iscan we get noticed and receive a
personalized email or call backabout a job?
(07:22):
First, because at that stagenow you get a chance to even
showcase even further from yourreply email maybe some content
Like, for instance, you mightreply back to an employer with
interest saying, hey, I reallyappreciate your time and effort
and you could find this.
You could actually create atemplate through chat, gpt.
But hey, I really appreciateyour interest in me.
I did some research on yourorganization.
One of the things I saw aboutthe job that made me want to
(07:48):
apply was this I feel as thoughI've got these skills and I feel
as though I want to learn andget better in these skills and
I'm hoping working for yourcompany could help me.
Like just that, that would be afive minute read email that
would the person who sent thatthe hiring manager, director,
whoever it might be would readthat and go, wow, this person's
really vested already.
Like we've got to interviewthis person.
Pete Newsome (08:03):
Yeah, I love that you said that.
So let me rephrase what I saida minute ago Rather than get to
the interview stage, it's to getto the next stage, whatever
that might be.
So maybe it is a reply to sayhey, thanks for sending your
application.
We think you're a potentialgood fit.
Tell me more, or at least catchsomeone's attention beyond that
nine seconds, because if youdon't catch it in that timeframe
(08:24):
you're gone forever.
One of the things that I heardrecently from a guy named Steven
Greed, who's CEO of Beam Jobsand that's who I recommend for
resume formatting we really likethe way they do things over
there.
He said make a point ofmentioning the company's name on
your resume Great way to catchcompany's attention.
Right, If you're reviewing thatresume and you see that in the
(08:46):
summary or the objectivestatement, it's going to catch
your attention because you knowit was personal and that's what
this one-click apply is reallystripped away from the
application process.
Nothing's personal, nothing'smeaningful really, and so we
don't put much value on it.
So that's what I encouragecandidates to do, whether it's I
don't really like the termcover letter.
(09:07):
I think that implies it's sortof a dated thing that implies
multiple paragraphs, but find away to share your cover story,
and that could be so manydifferent formats today, from a
handwritten note to a LinkedInmessage, to an email, as you
alluded to, or maybe even in thesummary of your resume.
Patrick Sirmeyer (09:23):
I think you're right.
I think about the idea that forevery applicant you have to
consider out there, there arepeople who are underqualified
for the job, all overqualified,and then properly qualified the
ones who are properly qualified.
The algorithms will pick up andyou'll most likely get selected
in that small percentage.
But I can tell you right nowthere's a lot of people
searching for work who are outof work.
They're overqualified for a jobbut they're humble enough to go
(09:45):
.
Hey, I recognize what the jobmarket is.
I do need employment, I havethe skills and I'm even willing
to do more for this organizationwith these skills, but I'm
being overlooked because fear is.
If you were to consider me, I'mgoing to leave for the next
highest paying job.
But the idea, in my opinion, isif you're an overqualified
individual and you're applyingfor a job, one of the things you
(10:06):
should do is take the time toevaluate and write some
information that shows where youcan add value to the company,
because one of the things I dosee lacking with applicants is
they are more thinking of whatcan you do for me, employer, as
opposed to them thinking whatcan I do for you, employer, and
I would rather see more people,especially, I'd say, new grads,
(10:30):
who don't have as muchexperience, saying, hey, here's
what I believe I can do andprovide value, and here's what
I'm willing to do for you and ifyou give me the opportunity and
give me the chance to prove it,I'm willing to do it.
Pete Newsome (10:36):
And that's what every employer wants.
Right, and as a candidate, youhave to provide what the
employer wants, because that'show you're going to be selected.
Whether you decide to acceptthe job or not is a different
discussion.
You have to get there in thefirst place.
So I want to ask you about thecompetitiveness of today's job
market, because the Bureau ofLabor Statistics, our current
(10:58):
presidential administration,they love to talk about how low
the unemployment rate is, givingthe implication that it's a
great job market.
You and I know the reality issomewhat different.
So why is it important forcandidates today to stand out?
If you're a new grad, why is itimportant to stand out in
today's job market?
Patrick Sirmeyer (11:17):
First of all, those statistics are skewed.
We have a whole nother podcastabout the factors that we're not
considering.
First of all, the people whohaven't been employed in a long
time.
Those have gone to the gigeconomy at 1099.
I mean, there's just so manyfactors within that.
But if you're a new graduate andyou're now looking at
employment and you're trying tofigure out a way to
differentiate yourself we justgot done talking about the topic
of applying for jobs I wouldactually first say throw that
(11:39):
out.
Sure, you can go apply for ajob, but unless you're a
licensed professional which,depending on what that
profession is, there's such ademand for that, if you're going
to be in a status where thereare some just subjective
qualities in which the employeris seeking, you have to find
uniquely creative ways to go outthere and market yourself.
First one, I would say isnetworking, and not just general
(12:01):
networking.
The first thing most studentsthink about is I'm going to go
to networking events and I'mgoing to go to all these local
produced events that are withinmy city.
I don't mean to that effect.
I've been a couple and I'venever gone back.
First thing I always tell peopleto do is you need to get
noticed.
Right, you go to the employerthat you're interested in, you
find some of the departmentsyou're interested in and you
start searching on LinkedIn andyou start connecting with those
(12:23):
people.
You connect with a shortmessage hey, so-and-so.
I just wanted to introducemyself.
I don't think we've connectedbefore, but I love the work you
do and I'm very interested inyour company.
You don't have to put yourpitch out there not saying I
applied for a job.
Look at my resume.
No, you're getting noticed.
If it's a small enough company,they're going to list off quite
a few and I'm going to say well, there was this guy named John
(12:44):
Smith that connected with me.
And now suddenly you start toget some communication
internally within the companywhere people are talking about
you.
So I would say first you got toget noticed through some
LinkedIn connecting and I knowthis is like not for a lot of
people, but I can tell you rightnow if you're willing to have a
side gig, job, whatever itmight be, and then go to an
(13:04):
organization and say I recognizethat I'm not qualified, but I
am willing to provide my effortif you give me a chance at a
lower pay scale to start, orunpaid to start and if you will
evaluate me every three to sixmonths to see if I've learned
the skills to actually do thisjob on a full-time basis or to a
relevant pay scale in whichyou'd pay a qualified person,
(13:25):
I'd be interested.
That's how much I'm interestedin working for your company.
I can tell you that I currentlyhave an employee right now who
came to me six months ago withthat same approach.
He wanted to get in therecruiting industry and he was
willing to go for minimum wageto start because he had no
experience, only to take sixmonths to get up to a relevant
pay to what I pay someone withexperience.
Pete Newsome (13:45):
That is such great advice and it's such a small
timescale that we're talkingabout that you can offer that
for, and it doesn't have to befor 40 hours a week.
It could be for 10 hours a week, it could be for 20.
But the education and exposureyou will have for that, gaining
relevant experience, is worthits weight in gold, and I know
that a lot of people on the jobmarket maybe young professionals
(14:13):
don't want to hear that.
But you have to extend yourtimeline of your career and
think if you spend three monthsdoing that, six months doing
that it will pay for itself somany times over in the course of
your career.
I think it's perfect advice togive.
Patrick Sirmeyer (14:24):
Yeah, when you do an internship, you know well
I actually get quite a fewpeople to ask me for a paid
internship and if I were tooffer an unpaid internship
they're going to go elsewhere.
And I recognize it's better tobe paid than not.
But just keep in mind like theability to do an unpaid
internship shows a lot aboutyour interest and character in
that piece.
But if you were to do aninternship and you go to the
supervisor you're interning forand say, hey, in the three
months that I'll be with you,I'm curious what do you hope
(14:47):
that I will learn or what kindof skills do you expect me to
develop?
Ask that of the person as youstart and then, when you finish,
have an exit meeting and sayhey, on a one to 10 scale.
How do you think I've developedin those skills and what would
you say to me on that topic?
Pete Newsome (15:06):
When do you think someone should do that?
I mean, I wanted to talk to youabout things that students can
do right, because a lot of timesgrads won't realize they have a
problem until they're gettingclose to graduation or have
graduated and it's time for thequote real world, and then they
realize, oops, my degree is notas marketable as I thought it
was going to be.
So we'd like to prevent aproblem versus solving it.
So what advice do you have forstudents?
(15:27):
That's a great one, to startwith, the unpaid internship.
Patrick Sirmeyer (15:30):
Yeah, one of the most disheartening things as
a college student is to gettowards your senior year, or
close to it, only to realizethat the degree you chose is not
going to be the same as yoursenior year.
It only has a couple of paths.
One there's very few jobopportunities that are going to
be specialized within it.
And then number two what a lotof people do they go?
I'm going to go get an advanceddegree master's, you know,
doctorate and not to say they'rebad, it's just that that wasn't
(15:53):
the path you.
You deferred the path of, ofcareer development because
something wasn't just falling inyour lap, and I think that's
where I see the difference.
It's just we're just not in atime right now in which things
will fall in your lap.
When I look at what someone cando to differentiate themselves,
we'll go back to the networkingpiece.
You could do that at a youngage and start networking and try
(16:15):
to find opportunities.
Find people who graduated yourcollege.
I keep an ongoing LinkedInfilter search of people who
graduated my college at anygiven time and I just want to
see what they're doing.
If you had a 10-minuteconversation with three people a
week who graduate youruniversity or your degree
program, only to find out whatthey're doing.
That's wisdom in itself andpeople would love to give that
advice because you know what?
(16:36):
Someone might have taken a paththat you're on and say hey, let
me just save you some headacheand I would guide you to go this
direction instead.
Pete Newsome (16:43):
I recently had a new grad ask me for help.
Who wants to work in a certainindustry?
And I happen to have someconnections there and I offered
that I would make a personalreferral if he sent a
handwritten note to someonewho's very much in a leadership
position in this industry.
Now I've suggested that todozens of new grads and young
people and no one ever does it.
(17:04):
No one ever takes that step towrite the handwritten note.
But you know, as I do, it'smeaningful, it stands out, it's
different, right, and that'swhat we're talking about.
You've said that you, you wantto get noticed.
What a great way to get noticed, because no one else is doing
it right.
Go where the competition is not.
Well, this, this young guy didit and surprised me and he said
two days later he called me,said I did, I sent a letter
(17:25):
yesterday.
Now you gotta make the phonecall right.
And and I did.
And the guy who he sent it towas so impressed I said listen,
I did not obligate you to doanything.
I assumed he wasn't going to doit, but I'm making the call,
I've got to keep my end of thebargain.
And he said pete, I love it,I'm going to call him directly.
And this is a guy who is, like Isaid, is at the top of his
industry and made the call andhas taken steps to help this
(17:49):
young guy.
And I love it because you and Iknow that people who are older,
who are in their profession,love seeing that kind of
ambition in young professionals,because that's what we want in
employees.
So we're inclined to helpanyone who asks for it
proactively.
Patrick Sirmeyer (18:05):
You know ambition and the ability to look
for creative ways to add value.
It takes time.
I recognize that everyone'sbrain is like pre-wired.
I mean, you got to think I'm 18, 19 years into my industry, so
it's hard for me to think aboutas my 22-year-old self.
Graduating college.
I've also been in kind of thesales format, so I've developed
those skills and now I've gotthat confidence.
But if I try to go back to my22-year-old self and think, okay
(18:27):
, I didn't have those skills, Ididn't have that confidence.
I think I was proactive.
One thing I would say I wasproactive, but not every young
adult is that way and I thinkthat takes practice, like
everything else, and it willfeel uncomfortable the first
time you do it.
You like everything else and itwill feel uncomfortable the
first time you do it.
You will feel uncomfortable andI think the second time it will
, but you'll eventually breakyourself with that.
There's a story that TonyRobbins used to talk about.
(18:48):
It was a real estate agent andI don't remember the call, but
it was in California and thisreal estate agent was looking
for a way to sell more homes andhe wanted to get his name in
this really lucrativeneighborhood but he didn't know
how to break in.
So what ended up happening wasthe whoever with the company was
contracted to pick up trash hadgone on strike or dropped the
contract, and so this reallynice neighborhood actually went
(19:09):
probably a month.
Trash is piling up in the front, it's getting really smelly,
and so what this guy did wasactually Tony Robbins was the
one that gave him this advice,but this guy went ahead and he
paid his own dollars to have thetrash picked up and he didn't
even tell anybody about it.
But then later on, when theneighborhood was actually clean,
he started a network and meetsome people and he let them know
(19:31):
that I did that as a value add.
Well, he ended up over thecourse, I think, selling like 20
or $30 million worth of homesover the course of years within
this neighborhood, all becausehe did something that was a pain
point for them.
He found it, he did it on hisown dime and dollar and he
created value there.
And then there was somethingelse he was looking for that
they were willing to trust himwith, and I think the same thing
(19:52):
goes for a new graduate orsomeone.
Applying is like go find amentor or a person that you want
and what can you do for thatperson?
What else could you do for thatindividual that they have a
pain point for?
And then you get theirattention.
Pete Newsome (20:06):
Yeah, and you, we want the income right, as anyone
who spends time wants to bepaid for it.
But what you're going to be paidwhen you're starting out is is
relatively little, even if it isat the current wages, for what
new grads are getting.
And you have to consider thatthe person who's willing to take
you on as a mentor or if you'regoing to be an intern, that is,
(20:27):
they're investing a lot of timeand effort in you, even before
they actually write you a check.
So that is what I think is sovaluable is the ability to learn
.
I mean, you could almost make acase this might sound silly
that that's worth paying someonefor, right?
I mean, I know what's in myhead and the experience that I
have that if I could impart onsomeone just coming out of
school, or if someone in myposition now could have imparted
(20:50):
that on me coming out of school, it was definitely worth more
than what I learned in college.
But I didn't have thatperspective then right, you have
to have the experience in orderto benefit from it.
Patrick Sirmeyer (21:04):
I'll tell you.
I've told every employee that'scome to work for one of my
companies.
I say look, you know we'veagreed to a wage in which you
started and we're going toevaluate you every quarter and
your performance and every yearfor some type of compensation
change.
And I tell them this early on.
What I would encourage you todo is you should get to a point
in that yearly or quarterlyevaluation where you are
compelling me to want to changethat compensation structure for
(21:25):
you in a positive way.
I said what you need to be ableto do is that when I come to
the table and we have thoseevaluations that I realized that
the odds are tilted way in yourfavor.
You've done so much for thecompany that's measurable and
that we've talked about that youit's almost like you don't even
ask for it, like it should beevaluated in that fashion.
I see way too many people thatare just as I mentioned earlier,
(21:46):
they're looking for like whatwill this company give me, what
will they do for me?
And they're comparing all thebenefits and that's fine, I get
that.
You know, I would rather be ina spot where I've given more to
an organization they've given me, because it just I just feel
like I'm in the power seat thewhole time, and maybe that's
something I've developed overyears, but that's what I
encourage people to do.
Pete Newsome (22:05):
Yeah, and it's been a popular sentiment over
the past few years to not havethat attitude and perspective.
But I think the pendulum isswinging the other way.
I mean, I really have a lot offaith and confidence in what I'm
seeing from Gen Z.
I'm biased because my four kidsare Gen Z and so I'm around
their friends a lot.
I'm very encouraged.
I have a bunch of Gen Zemployees now and they are
(22:26):
taking that approach.
But be careful.
What you see and hear on socialmedia suggesting you do
otherwise.
By doing more, by going aboveand beyond, which is such a
tried and true thing to apply,you have more power than you
realize, because when companiesdownsize, make cuts that's
(22:48):
happening a lot these daysthey're not cutting the most
valuable employees, they'recutting the ones who are at the
bottom of the list, and not onlydo you not want to be that, you
want to be the one that they'refighting to keep.
And the way to do that is to goabove and beyond, and it seems
so simple on the surface, butit's not done frequently enough.
Why do you?
Do you have a thought on whythat is?
Patrick Sirmeyer (23:09):
One of the things I think about is I think
I said to you earlier, before westarted recording we're in a
time, right now, where we don'tmeasure experience based on time
anymore.
Okay, so you don't say I have10 years of experience and you
have 12, and you have 15, whohas who's more qualified or who
has, you know, better knowledge.
We're in accelerated learning,really accelerated learning.
(23:33):
In the world we live, in, you,someone can come and learn as
much as I've learned in twoyears in my 18.
Now, to do that, though, theyhave to consume all the right
information.
They have to have a path toconsume that.
That could be YouTube andvideos, and mentorship, and
physical work, and there's justa lot of facets to be able to
get yourself to that point.
But that ambition, though, Idon't see as much, and it might
(23:55):
be because so many things aboutour world are convenient right
now.
One thing I was telling youearlier is I would love to see
every young adult, high schoolto college pick a path.
One of the things I find is, ifyou don't pick a path of what
you want to pursue, of somethingyou're working towards, that is
where you start to waver inlife, and sometimes when you're
(24:18):
young at least when I think,when I was younger if I was
wavering and I didn't have apath of something I was working
towards, that's when justnegative things started to
happen in my life.
But I've gone down a lot ofpaths where I've, like, worked
towards something.
It didn't work to the level Iwanted, but I had a lot of
knowledge and experience, a lotof memories, and then I took a
different path and then that,just over the course of time,
added up to the career I'm intoday.
I just look at many youngadults now where I think, oh, if
(24:41):
you just need to take a path,because some of them are so I
don't know, confused about whatto do, they do nothing.
And that's usually what happenswhen people, when they're
confused.
Pete Newsome (24:50):
Well it's.
It's a conflicting message ofthoughts, right, Because you do
have time.
You have this long runway.
It's a phrase that I've usedyou used it earlier before we
started recording today wheredon't feel pressure to know
where you're going to end up,but it's okay and necessary
perhaps to feel pressure to worktowards that end.
And that does mean going ahundred percent in whatever it
(25:11):
is you're doing, to figure outwhether it is something you're
going to have interest in,aptitude for, whether you know
if you're not good at it.
You probably have to have thatrealization at some point, Right
, I always use the example If Iwant to, if I want to be a
ballerina, it doesn't matter howbadly I want it, I'm just not
equipped for that, right.
So that's a reality of it too.
But I agree with you 100% thatif you are going into college or
(25:36):
you're in college now and yourmajor is undeclared, your number
one mission should be focusingon figuring out what,
acknowledging that it's okay ifyou're wrong right.
Because if you find out you'rewrong at 22, because you went a
hundred percent in thatdirection of thinking that is
what you wanted to do, there isno real penalty, right, for that
(25:59):
.
You have so much time to makeup for it.
I mean, I look at your twentiesas your freshman year, right,
and so you have that much timeto figure it out.
But figure it out by the timeyou get your sophomore year
right, by the time you're 30.
So that's the lens that Iencourage young people,
including my own children, tolook at that through is it's
(26:19):
okay if you don't know, but it'snot okay to not do something
about it.
Right, you need to be figuringthat out as quickly, as fast as
and hard as you can.
But it's okay to be wrong, andthat sounds like a conflicting
message at times.
Patrick Sirmeyer (26:32):
I think we're more likely to see young adults
now have multiple careers, morethan two, maybe even or three,
in the course of their overallworking days.
Also, because, going back tothe idea of accelerated learning
not going to be that Pete orPatrick have 20 plus years in
this industry I mean we're kindof hanging our hat on that.
But like if another young adultsays, hey, in my 15 years of
(26:54):
working, I was able toaccomplish this in in, you know,
phase one and accomplish thisin phase two and this in phase
three.
I mean that's a lot ofknowledge and that's a lot of
experience overall.
And we live in this time nowwhere you can take those paths
in different directions.
You don't have to always godeep and forever.
And you know we just used tojoke.
You know, 30 years with onecompany, I still.
You have employers that willservice and I look at their
(27:16):
LinkedIn.
I'm like, wow, this guy's beenwith a company 35 years.
Such a rare bird.
I don't see that anymore.
You know, I've asked a lot ofemployers today and maybe you
can answer this one for me,which is I asked him.
I say how long would you expectan employee to stay with you to
(27:36):
feel like you it was a goodinvestment of the time you spent
training that person.
I ask that quite often and Iget a lot of answers.
But what do you think?
Pete Newsome (27:40):
most employers in their fifties or sixties are
going to say I'll say that theyprobably give you an answer
that's much higher than realityand that they would be happy
with.
I would guess they would answerprobably in the neighborhood of
10 years, where you know threeto five is probably more realist
.
Patrick Sirmeyer (27:53):
It's it, you, you nailed it.
Three to five is realistic.
They want 10.
I just eternity.
Pete Newsome (28:02):
And it is.
It is a dated mentality.
The world is moving way toofast right now for that.
But I also think it makes senseto go in with an agreement on
both sides of is this a good fitfor now?
We don't know what the futureholds, and that's okay.
This concept of loyalty is onethat I talk about a lot.
It shouldn't be part of thedeal, right, it should be a
(28:25):
day-to-day decision.
Almost.
You're not getting married.
It's employment.
You're trading your time andskill for compensation, and the
minute that doesn't make sensefor either side, it should be
okay for that relationship toend.
And if we have that mentality,I think we'd be a lot happier.
I'm personally a big fan of thefreelance market for that
(28:45):
reason, because there's noexpectation of future commitment
.
Right it's.
Does this make sense today?
As long as we still say yes,it's great, and you nailed it.
We don't.
That's okay.
It's okay to separate.
Patrick Sirmeyer (28:59):
I don't think we ever talked about this topic.
Your philosophy on employmentis identical to mine.
I say it to the employeesprobably at least once a year.
Usually I say it at like ayear-end party or New York
kickoff party.
I say look, every morning youwake up and you have to make a
decision.
Is this where you want to be?
And I hope that you say yes andthen you're going to show it
with your actions and yourpassion.
But I have the same pressure.
(29:21):
It's a reverse side where Ihave to wake up and decide can I
produce a business and aproduct and the ability in this
situation that you want to workfor?
That you have opportunity, withthat you feel you can grow with
and like, if I wake up and I domy part and you wake up to your
part, like every day, we justmake that decision together.
But you might come to a point,at one point you wake up one day
and say this isn't for me, andthen I can feel good about it
(29:41):
because we've made that decisionevery day up until now and
we're just going to part waysamicably.
Pete Newsome (29:47):
And the truth is it would be hypocritical to
suggest otherwise because I'vequit every job I've had except
for this one.
You only end your career havingnot left one job, either
through your own choice orsomeone else's.
So, there's a natural end tothings and we have to be okay
with that.
But I want to get back on track, because you mentioned skills
(30:07):
earlier.
Talk to me a little bit aboutskills you think young
professionals need to have, andwhich skills are most important
for young professionals to havein today's market.
Patrick Sirmeyer (30:17):
So we're going to put technical related skills
to whatever career that youwant to decide, because if you
want the technical skills towhatever career path you're
choosing, there's a lot ofonline programs that you can
find that'll help educatingthose skills.
Pete Newsome (30:30):
Like I mentioned, you can do internships, things
like that but if you want to bean accountant, you have to have
strong accounting skills.
If you want to be a softwaredeveloper, you have to have
strong software developmentskills.
Patrick Sirmeyer (30:40):
So in our conversation, we're making
assumptions that you're going tohave the skills or find a path
to develop them, so we're goingto put that aside because
otherwise you wouldn't beconsidered.
But now we're looking at thingslike what creates success
between you and your potentialemployer or the employment
scenario you're choosing, andthat success comes down a lot to
communication.
(31:00):
So we live in a digital erawhere we do so much
communication over email, textand just different social
platforms, and we would allagree that at some point we have
assumed improperly or heard arelationship through some form
of text-related conversation.
I try to encourage everyone mykids as well to have live
conversations with people andthe idea of where you're trying
(31:21):
to find employment or find agood working relationship, you
should be proactive.
Don't always rely on youremployer to do that.
Our good friend that we bothknow, casey Jaycox, he teaches
this format and it's nowingrained in me and I would
encourage everybody to practicethis.
He calls it TED.
It's tell me, explain, describe.
And it's just this questionasking format of deeper
knowledge to obtain informationfrom someone.
(31:43):
Instead of saying hey, whatabout?
Or this, ask more intelligentquestions, I'd say, hey, pete,
can you tell me about X, y, z,can you explain to me X, y, z?
Can you describe to me and bydoing that it's conversational,
and whether it be the mentoryou're looking for, the manager
you want to work for, like, askthose kinds of questions and
find out?
Like I'm saying, networking butbe compelling in a way that you
(32:05):
can actually have conversationwith people that are important
and giving you knowledge.
One thing I always do on everyemail, no matter what the email
is, I always send an email tosomebody and I ask them a
question at the end.
I want conversation, I wantdialogue, I want us to go back
and forth, but I never make juststatement related emails and I
think if you're just trying tonetwork, you want to be able to
do that same kind of concept.
Pete Newsome (32:26):
I love it.
A friend of mine years ago saidbe interested versus
interesting.
And I think that's such asimple way to approach having a
conversation with anyone.
And you could talk to anyone atany time by simply asking them
questions, and I tell themnothing about myself.
(32:48):
I just ask them questions, I'mshowing interest in them.
We will walk away from thatconversation and they'll think
I'm a great guy.
Yeah, for no reason, right, Igave them nothing about myself,
my interests, my likes, dislikesbut I just asked them about
themselves.
And that is human nature 101.
If you approach your businessrelationships the same way, try
(33:13):
to learn about those you'reworking with, learn from them,
right, while you're learningabout them.
That is all you have to do.
And it is such an easy way tohold a conversation with someone
without putting pressure ofbeing interesting.
Right, because that's hard.
I don't want to have to perform.
That's stressful.
Do you agree with that?
Patrick Sirmeyer (33:30):
I agree.
First of all, our favoritetopic is ourselves.
We want to hear about ourselvesall the time you ask someone
enough questions about them,they're going to walk away
loving you.
Did you ever see the moviePursuit of Happiness with Will
Smith?
Yes, Okay, you know that famousscene where the guy's getting
out of the Ferrari I think he'sa stockbroker and Will Smith's
walking by after his rough dayand then the guy tells him you
know, I'm, I'm a stock broker.
Will Smith was having a roughday but, like he didn't have to
(33:52):
stop and ask this guy, he couldtell the man was successful, but
he wanted to know, like dude,what exactly is it you do?
And I can tell you right now,success would love being asked
that question.
In fact, there's a lot ofYouTube videos that people just
go around and say, hey, how'dyou make your millions?
Pete Newsome (34:06):
It's just human nature, right, which we can't
fight, but we should payattention to, because that's how
success happens right, and weall have to be able to work with
each other.
Any other skills that come tomind for today's marketplace.
Patrick Sirmeyer (34:18):
I add value for that individual and I know
again, I'm speaking to the biasstandpoint because I've worked
in sales Point being is like theskills of being compelling
through sales and questionasking.
I would encourage everyone tojust take some kind of course or
get some kind of training tocome out of your comfort zone
because it's easy for me.
I'm not a full extrovert but Ihave extrovert tendencies, so of
(34:41):
course I'm willing to beinquisitive and ask questions
and dialogue and things likethat.
But if you're an introvertedindividual and you're thinking
like, ooh, that would be like myworst nightmare.
You know to go around askingpeople questions, I get that.
But when I say network, I meanyou could just talk to your best
friend and say, hey, man, whatdoes your dad do for a living?
(35:08):
I'm just curious, you know, andyour best friend could be like
questions that you want to askpeople.
The old book years ago was byNapoleon Hill, where he actually
interviewed all these wealthypeople to figure out how they
made their riches.
He was able to figure out,write a book around all these
characteristics about that.
Now take that well over time.
And now we have today differentformats of YouTube where you
can ask those same questions topeople and find out.
(35:29):
Where did you get that?
But that inquisitive nature,that would probably be the
number one skill that I couldtell someone to.
If not develop, just be in thehabit of practicing it.
Pete Newsome (35:38):
So I have that book behind me.
There's 13 steps, I believe itis that he talks about, on how
to be successful, and what's sogreat about it is that book was
written around a hundred yearsago and it's universally
applicable.
Today, the same things apply.
The words and phrases may havechanged a little bit, but how
success happens has not everchanged in our modern worlds.
(36:00):
You mentioned earlier about thedigital world that we're in.
How much does personal brandingmatter to young professionals
today?
Patrick Sirmeyer (36:08):
I'm going to write that up.
I think this is a topic you andI were talking earlier about
the idea of athletes and youngathletes.
Today and we're living in thisworld, this evolving NIL name
and likeness and the ability tomake money from that I think if
you I use them as an examplelike not a professional, but
they're pursuing their athleticcareer, like they go out there
in early age and they start tocreate a personal brand online
(36:31):
and digitally.
You know, be conscious of whatyou're doing.
I quite often Google my name tosee what comes up in my first
school rankings to make surethat the content I wanted to
come up, because you know I'mout there and relevant.
But if you're in your teens, Iknow what's most likely is you
just got some social mediaplatforms and you're just
posting with your friends andyou know where you went on
vacation and what you did thisweekend.
I would encourage people tojust be more conscious about
(36:52):
what you're posting, how you'reposting and I don't mean from
the idea of, hey, don't postsomething scandalous because an
employer might see it.
I mean, maybe go out there andcreate your own blog, you know,
write your own topics of whatyou think is important.
Go out there and create somecontent around the things that
are most you're passionate about.
And you know, I've often tellpeople that.
You know, we live in this timeframe where you can, I don't say
(37:14):
create an avatar, but you canat least just put out there the
information, what people knowabout you and it's important you
want to be found.
We live in a time now whereit's more skeptical when you
can't find someone online thanwhen you can, and so I
understand the privacy.
If I Google somebody andthere's nothing on them, it
doesn't mean it's true.
It just means that I thinkthere's something skeptical
about the individual as opposedto what I could find from them.
Pete Newsome (37:36):
There's so much time spent on social media.
Young, old, it doesn't reallymatter.
We're all living in that worldtoday, and what I think is so
important is to be a creator ofcontent versus just a consumer
of it.
So yes, we're all going toconsume it, but find a way to
create it to help yourprofessional persona out there,
for lack of a better way to putit.
(37:56):
So if you are a marketer, forexample, show some of your
digital creativity on there.
If you're sales, makecompelling videos.
If you're in technology, youhave opportunity to showcase
that too.
So each channel has its ownnuance.
If you're thinking of that, Ithink it's such good advice that
you just gave, and probably theperfect amount of advice is
(38:18):
think about how you want to beviewed as a professional, not
just as a person.
Patrick Sirmeyer (38:23):
We seem to only like micro-size that to
sports, when the reality isguess what?
As a young adult who's hopingto develop my career, I want to
be scouted too.
Come find me, you know, findthat line and go.
Hey, I want to collaborate onsomething with you because
you're really good at X, and ifyou want to be scouted and you
put out content, otherwiseyou're going to have to be the
one pursuing things you know onyour own.
Pete Newsome (38:46):
And, once again, this is something you can do
while you're a student.
You can do it in school.
Put things that you're learningor apply things that you're
learning in class right now.
Share your projects online.
Start building yourprofessional resume, so to speak
, and professional reputationMaybe that's a better way to put
it as soon as you can.
I think that is great advicethat probably very few young
(39:08):
people take advantage of,because they're thinking of the
moment right, just like you did.
You said you put yourself inthe mind of your 22 year old
self.
I know where my 18 to 22 yearold self was, and it wasn't
thinking of what was going to bethe best thing for me to do for
benefit over the next 20, 30years.
That's for sure.
I wasn't thinking that at all,but it's an easy thing to add
(39:30):
right.
Put all your fun videos, butevery once in a while, sprinkle
in some professional stylecontent and it'll go a long way
towards building that reputation.
I love it All right, soactionable advice.
I've kept you on longer than Itold you I would, patrick, but
this has been so valuable.
Anything that you knowresources or overall advice or
guidance you'd like to give tosomeone who's either in school
(39:54):
or has recently graduated.
Patrick Sirmeyer (39:56):
Yeah.
So here's easy, actual advice,and maybe it'll take you a lot
of places from here.
It's going to sound soelementary, but first find a
potential mentor.
Your potential mentor mightjust be your parents, one of
your parents, uncle, grandparent, neighbor, friend's dad, mom,
whatever.
It could be a person who'sthree years older than you, was
in your fraternity and nowgraduated.
A potential mentor for a shortperiod of time, meaning like
(40:18):
someone to bounce ideas off ofand ask some questions.
Be vulnerable to ask thatperson questions.
Prepare, I would say, forexample, if you're even say
we'll just use college, becauseusually they're thinking of a
career at that point.
You're in college, you're comingup on your junior year I know
it wouldn't wait your senioryear.
You start listing some thingsof what you hope you'd like to
do.
You find, for instance, I oftenask this question what are you
(40:41):
good at Like?
What do you have some skills at?
Okay, what do you love to do?
And we really hope that they'rethe same.
They have some overlap andthey're the same thing.
I find sometimes that I might begood at something and I don't
love it.
There's something that I loveand I'm not good at it.
Now the question is which onedo you want to pursue?
Do you want to go and pursuesomething you're really good at
(41:01):
but don't love?
I'd probably not encourage that.
What if something you have alot of interest in, you know
skills at?
That's going to be a hardhurdle.
You're going to have to thentake those lists that you're
making and go all right, I'mgoing to have to develop these
skills.
Or you go I don't know whatskills I should develop.
There's where your mentor comesin Find the person a couple
steps ahead of you and go hey,by the way, I have a lot of
interest in this, I want to gothis path.
What would you do differently?
(41:22):
What did you do that you feltlike what would be the top three
things that I can do right nowto put myself on that path?
And then you got to starttaking those actions.
When I say make a plan, I knowit sounds dumb, but you just
start with a list, you take alittle action.
Something about taking actionin the right direction just puts
(41:43):
motivation to it, and I oftentell people you operate by
self-discipline and imposeddiscipline in most areas of your
life.
I find that when I was younger,I really needed imposed
discipline areas of your life.
I find that when I was youngerI really needed imposed
discipline.
I needed to go put myselfaround people who would tell me
what to do until my brain couldproperly grasp the idea of like.
Here's the path I'm on.
Today.
I have a lot of self-disciplinein my life because I've had to
develop it, but I have not asmuch imposed.
(42:05):
But when I was younger it wasjust all imposed and there's
nothing wrong with that.
Go find ways where peopledirect your attention, direct
your steps and just follow them.
I won't say blindly, but followthem with the intent of I'm
going to go down this path for afew steps, evaluate myself and
then move forward.
So actual items is put down, alist what are you good at?
What are you passionate about?
Let's see if they align.
Pete Newsome (42:33):
Go, find yourself that kind of mentor coach and
then ask for the three to fivethings that you could do to help
put you on that path.
I cannot think of a betterclosing statement.
So I want to end there, becausethat was perfect advice that
everyone who's young can takeadvantage of.
Patrick Surmeyer, luxus Groupman, thank you so much for your
time today.
This has been wonderful.
Patrick Sirmeyer (42:49):
Thanks, Pete.
Pete Newsome (42:50):
Talk to you soon.
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