Warning Signs It's Time For a New Job

Ever felt stuck in a job and yearned for a change? The pandemic has stirred a career revolution, prompting many to reconsider their jobs and seek out new opportunities. Join Pete Newsome and Ricky Baez as they highlight the warning signs that signal it's time for a new job. They emphasize the importance of having a well-thought-out plan before making the big move and the dangers of letting emotions dictate your decisions.

Workplace ethics is a matter we all grapple with. Pete and Ricky shed light on this delicate issue, discussing how personal values can influence your career choices, and how the pandemic has put many in positions where they are forced to stay in jobs that conflict with their principles. The interview process is a crucial juncture where both employers and potential employees need to be transparent and honest. They pinpoint common mistakes and offer tips on how to make the process smoother and more successful.

Ever been in a toxic work environment? Pete and Ricky discuss this perplexing issue, examining the warning signs that suggest it's time to move on. They also explore the importance of self-reflection, understanding if you are part of the toxicity, and the necessity of having a plan B. In conclusion, they share insightful tips on how to prepare for a career transition, the importance of proper notice before quitting, and how to navigate the emotional roller-coaster that comes with changing jobs. This episode is a one-stop shop for all your career transition needs!

Episode Transcript

Pete Newsome (00:03):
You're listening to the Finding Career Zen
Podcast.
I'm Pete Newsome, joined byRicky Baez.
Once again today, Ricky how areyou?

Ricky Baez (00:09):
I'm feeling the force today, Pete, feeling the
force.

Pete Newsome (00:12):
I see that you have Star Wars gear on.
That's a very, very specificlook you're choosing to go with
today.

Ricky Baez (00:18):
Well, it is Right.
After this, I got to go have ameeting with a client and she is
a humongous Star Wars fan.
I got to fit the part becausewe're going to get along great.

Pete Newsome (00:27):
Now, is there any risk that you you know that she
may be a Star Trek fan and yougot that wrong?
In which case, is there any?

Ricky Baez (00:35):
you know how hilarious that would be.

Pete Newsome (00:38):
Because you, because you you know nerds in
that area feel pretty passionateabout your choice of one or the
other, right?
It's not like you can go backand forth.

Ricky Baez (00:47):
I got to tell you, Pete, if, if I got there and
she's like ew, I don't thinkwe're going to go past that
conversation.
I'm not going to like heranyway.
I mean, how can we possibly getalong, as she hates Star Wars
and she's a huge Star Trek fan?
Because I don't like.
I do not like Star Trek at all.

Pete Newsome (01:02):
Understood.
Well, let's hope you got itright, and I hope so, which is
best you can let us know theoutcome next time we're together
.
There you go.

Ricky Baez (01:09):
Absolutely.

Pete Newsome (01:11):
So we're going to talk about something different
today.
Believe it or not, not StarWars Come on, I'm gone, I'm
leaving.
We'll talk.

Ricky Baez (01:18):
Star Wars later.

Pete Newsome (01:19):
All right.
Today we're going to talk aboutthe signs of when it's time to
look for a new job.
What are the warning signs thatemployees should work for?
That's a topic that all comesup in almost everyone's career
at some point.

Ricky Baez (01:34):
It does and it's.
I think people are more, aremore bold in their decision to
decide to jump ship or stay.
Stay on a ship post pandemic,right, pre pandemic?
I don't think any.
I would venture to guess theamount of people who would jump
ship because of these thingswould be was less than the
pandemic Then after the pandemic, because now we have other

(01:56):
choices.
So this is important to knowfor people out there, for
business leaders and and and andorganising, and even people
looking for a job to know whatare some of the signs to say I
am done with this.
This is not good for my mentalhealth or financial health.
I got to go somewhere else.
So this is a great list.

Pete Newsome (02:13):
I want to make sure I understand what you're
saying that people are moreprone to jump quickly now than
pre pre COVID, I think so Ibelieve so.

Ricky Baez (02:23):
Why is that?
Because I think it's I.
I know there there were somepeople before the pandemic who
were thinking about jumping shipto go somewhere else, whether
it's to go to a different job,whether to just venture out on
their own and start their ownthing or just enter the gig
economy.
And they, they were afraid todo it because those waters were
not as tested as they feltcomfortable with.

(02:44):
Come pandemic they kind of gotpushed into those waters and you
either sank or you swim.
And people learned that theycan swim.
And I and and now with all ofthese success stories out there
with the gig economy and how thepandemic sparked a brand new
industry, I really think peoplehave the the nerve now more to

(03:06):
jump ship them before I reallydo.

Pete Newsome (03:09):
I agree with you.
I think there was a lot of thathappening a year ago, so we're
recording this in August 2023.
Now the pendulum has started toswing back.
I think for the past six monthsit's it's gone to no longer be
such a strong employees market,and so there may be more
hesitation now than there wasthis time a year ago, and

(03:30):
rightfully so.
Companies aren't hiring asquickly yeah, there was.
Yeah, the pendulum has just hadsuch big swings in the space
over the past three years.
I think it's settling, butstill a weird time in the market
.
Still companies aren't hiringat the pace they were what under
what I would consider to benormal circumstances of the time

(03:51):
of my professional life, whichis a little over 25 years now.
So I know this is, this is aweird time, but the message
today, more than anything else,is don't stay in a bad situation
.
That's right.
Yeah, identifying what a badsituation is is very personal,
but there are some warning signsthat are universal and that's

(04:12):
what we'll talk about today and,you know, create almost a
checklist of sorts for anyonewho is asking the question is
this a good time to leave?
Right, should I consider now?
There's an old saying in.
It probably applies to a lot ofdifferent aspects of life.
That is, effectively don't runaway from something, run to
something.
So to keep that in mind as wellwith this conversation, while

(04:36):
we're talking about reasons toleave, the best reason of all to
leave is because you havesomething better to go to.
That is the goal, and so onething that I'll caveat up front
is understand.
Don't let your emotions takeover.
Don't leave without thinking itout.

(04:58):
So listen to this podcast,listen to the things we're going
to talk about, consider howthey apply in your own situation
and then put together a plan.
But to the best degree possible, have a plan for what you're
going to do next, versus justhey, I need to get out here.

Ricky Baez (05:19):
Use just something really interesting there, pete,
you said consider how thisapplies to your situation.
This is a list that it's notall encompassing, but some
things do apply to you, somethings do not.
What I want people to thinkabout is, if you're planning on
jumping ship because of any ofthe things you hear today,
please, please, be cognizant ofthe fact that what if some of

(05:42):
these things that you're runningaway from you find them where
you're running to, right?
So what are the things that arereally really crosses the line
for you.
For you to say this is enough,because, look, the grass isn't
necessarily greener on the otherside.
The grass is greener where youwater it, so you have to decide
where it is you want to be,because some of these things

(06:03):
you're going to find elsewhere,right?
So let's take it off real quick, if it's okay with you, pete.

Pete Newsome (06:10):
Yeah, that's a great point.
I'm glad you made it.

Ricky Baez (06:13):
What about if your work isn't recognized?
So if you go to work and yourwork is not recognized, right?

Pete Newsome (06:20):
Go ahead.
Well, there's just so muchmeaning behind that.
How does that make you feel?
That's a big thing with, Ithink, younger professionals
today is to attach feelings andemotions to their job in a way
that my generation did not andstill does not right.
Where I don't, I tend toseparate that a lot my job from

(06:44):
my emotions, as best as I can.
Today that's not prevalent, Idon't think, or it's becoming
less so.
So there's multiple reasons foryour work not being recognized
to be a problem.
That's how it's going to makeyou feel to the point of being
just dissatisfied, unhappy,carrying on over to your

(07:07):
personal life, but also that'sgoing to limit your ability to
advance, to succeed in anorganization.
So to me, that statement is asimple thing to say, but it has
a pretty complex message behindit.

Ricky Baez (07:24):
Now can I say something from the opposite side
too, because I've had somereally good conversations with
employees about these, becausethey'll say they'll complain
that their work isn't beingrecognized.
My pushback to them now this isfrom an HR perspective.
My pushback to the employee waswhat have you done to make sure
your work is noticed?
Right, you have to be able topat yourself in the back.

(07:47):
You have to be able to tootyour own horn, especially in a
big organization.
You cannot expect a leader of5,000 people to know what every
single person is doing.
So if you feel your work isn'tbeing recognized, before you
jump ship, make sure that you'redoing everything you can to
make sure your work is beingnoticed.
Here's why, because if youdon't do that and you go

(08:09):
somewhere else, you may berunning through the same thing,
right, if you don't marketyourself.
So you've got and this is hardfor people who are introverts.
It's really hard for them, andI recognize that Guess what
folks you got to step outsidethat box because you got to be
recognized for it.

Pete Newsome (08:25):
And I'll tell you this is something that I would
consider to be a weakness for meas a leader, where I, as a
career salesperson that's how Ialways have thought of myself,
because that's how I made myliving for so long.
That's that's what I brought tothe table when I started my
business years ago is I'm goingto be.

(08:48):
My work will stand for itselfin terms of my compensation
right.
That's what I experienced, asin heavily leveraged
compensation plans earlier in mycareer, where it's great if my
boss says I'm doing a wonderfuljob, but if my numbers indicate

(09:09):
otherwise, that's the real story.
Conversely, if I'm making twicemy base salary and commission
because I'm at 150% of my compplan as a salesperson, I didn't
care whether my boss patted meon the back, because the reward

(09:29):
that I was looking for, therecognition, was in my paycheck.

Ricky Baez (09:34):
So that's a good point.

Pete Newsome (09:36):
So that's a mentality that my career evolved
into, and as a leader now whorealizes that that's not
everyone's way of thinking, it'sbeen, as you know, as you're
working with me on HR issues,that that's not my natural
strength, far from it and so Ihave to realize people seek

(10:00):
recognition in different ways,and that's one of the reasons
why we founded Zengig is whenthat realization finally took
hold for me Is that you knowwhat?
It took me longer than itshould have to realize To just
completely recognize.
Not everyone thinks the way Ido about that, and that's okay.
So a lot of people do want tobe acknowledged and feel the

(10:24):
need to have that pat on theback or publicly be recognized
that they were doing a good job.
So we all seek it in differentways, and now that I've fully
realized that and embrace it, Ithink it's worth mentioning
because you have to know whatthat means to you.
So a simple sentence aboutrecognition in your work, very

(10:48):
different meanings behind it.

Ricky Baez (10:49):
Absolutely.
So you have to know what'simportant to you, because that's
a good point, what you said.
To me what's important is mypaycheck.
I don't care if my boss likesit or not.
If my paycheck reflects thework I've put in, that's awesome
.
So folks think about what youwant to get out of it, because
if it's being reported in yourpaycheck, technically you're
good, right.

(11:10):
But if you want more than that,yes, up to you.

Pete Newsome (11:12):
Well, and a lot of jobs, don't you know whether
and this is always an argumentwhen it comes to the topic of
something like quite quitting,which we've discussed a lot
where, if you're going to bepaid the same, whether you put
in a full, solid, eight hour dayversus slacked and goofed off
half the day, that's going to behard to have motivation in that

(11:36):
as an employee, and so thatrecognition is going to need to
come from somewhere else If it'snot going to affect your
paycheck.
And I would say that's most jobsthat really it's just happened
to not be the job that I was infor most of my career, how I've
made my living.
So one is directly tied to theother for me, but I think that's

(11:59):
the minority, so let's move onto the next one, right?
I acknowledge that now, whenyour employer is across ethical
boundaries, that's a big one,and one that I also hopeful to
say that it doesn't happen toofrequently, right?

(12:20):
I think, generally, mostbusinesses try to do the right
thing, most individuals tryingto do the right things, but
sometimes there's some badactors out there.

Ricky Baez (12:32):
Let's define that, though right, because it's
ethical boundaries can be a lotof different things.
I'll give you a great examplethat I was involved with years
and many moons ago and whatpeople thought was an ethical
dilemma.
And the issue was years ago wehad a potluck where all this old
well, not potluck, but it'sjust a catered lunch for a bunch

(12:54):
of people right, we had acatered lunch.
We bought this barbecue jointdown the street and we had a lot
of food left over.
A couple of employees wanted todonate that to the homeless
shelter and we're telling themwe can't do that, we cannot
donate that to the homeless.
And they thought we wereheartless bastards.
But even when I told them, look, if we donate this to the

(13:14):
homeless shelter which, don'tget me wrong in my heart, I
believe we should I'm puttingour organization and legal risk
is somebody gets sick, we'reliable, I have to look out for
the best interests of theorganization and they thought I
was heartless and I'm like I'msorry, I have to think for the
organization.
Now, to them that could havebeen an ethical boundary and I
don't know if that's enough forthem to quit or not.

(13:36):
But I know some people werethinking about quitting that day
because of the conversationthat I had with them.

Pete Newsome (13:42):
Well, people, you know those.
These are emotional times,right that we're in and we're in
a litigious society.
We know that, and so that's athat's an interesting one.
It depends I could see thatconversation headed it can head
in that direction and and youknow, maybe, maybe people could

(14:05):
could chalk that up right Ifthey didn't like the way their
employer whether they werejustified of this or not, if
your perceptions, reality didn'tdidn't like the way that played
out.
I've experienced it a number oftimes in staffing where people
didn't candidates didn't want toconsider working for a certain

(14:26):
kind of business.
Debt collection was one that Ifound odd.
A candidate that said nope, Idon't want to work for debt
collection company.
I think that's a bad industry.
I don't want to be part of it.
Okay, there was another time wehad a prospect come to us.
We didn't end up working withthis company.
They were in the adult filmindustry.
They were, they were ran adultvideo websites and you know,

(14:51):
that's just we.
There's a lot of people whowouldn't want to go work for a
company like that.
Right, I think that's a given.
So well, now are those ethical?
I mean, those are personalchoices, are personal morals.
What we value, what we align,we're not willing to cross.

(15:11):
Those are very personal things.
So I think you know that cominginto the organization and, like
I said, we've had thoseexperiences and we have a choice
to make.
But when I think of you knowyou see ethical boundaries cross
.
I think of legal issues as acompany doing something they
shouldn't do, or theyconsciously break into law, or

(15:32):
stealing, whatever it might betelling their customers
something that they know is nottrue.
That happens all the time inbusiness.
Well, let me say this I don'tthink it happens with most
people, but the numbers dictatethat it's going to still happen
a lot.
We know that.

(15:53):
So when you face that, that's atough thing, I mean I think
that's a great reason to move onright.
If you see the law being brokenAbsolutely.

Ricky Baez (16:03):
And look, because I don't want people to think I'm a
heartless bastard out thereLook, yes, we did not do the
food for the homeless thing, butwe did donate a large chunk of
money because that's better,right.
It fulfills our socialresponsibility as an
organization and we don't getanybody in trouble.
But you're right, if thishappens quite often and you have

(16:23):
to make a decision, if you gohome at night, if you go home at
night knowing your organizationis doing this unethical thing,
and if you cannot sleep at night, then that is a good indicator
that you might want to gosomewhere else.
And that goes well into ournext point, pete.
Once you go to bed at night,you can't sleep and you wake up
the next morning you realizeyour company's values don't

(16:45):
align with yours.
You have a decision to make.

Pete Newsome (16:49):
Well, and hopefully you can identify that
in the interview process, likethe stories I just told, which
were a little premature, giventhat this is the next thing on
our list.
That's more in line with valuesnot matching up because of the
industry the organization is inwhat they do for a living.
That's going to happen a lot,or maybe it just isn't

(17:10):
interesting to you, but try toidentify that on the front.
I'm trying to think of exampleswhere that comes up after
someone's already employed,where they discovered, wow, this
company doesn't really thinkthe way I do.
I mean, ideally those kinds ofthings would come up, like I
said, in the process.

Ricky Baez (17:30):
Pre-employment yeah, I could tell you.
I see a lot of this happeningwhen the interviewer just lied
through their teeth.
It's just a great company towork for oh my God, everybody
loves it.
How's it working with yourleaders?
Oh my God, they're the bestleaders in the world.
They can run Tesla, right, allthese things.
And then you start working andyou find that it's the exact

(17:50):
opposite and people quicklyrealize that in their first week
.
If it's really that night andday.
But then some people stick itout because we have no other
choice.
I can't find another jobelsewhere, but you just became a
stepping stone if you're lyingin your interview.

Pete Newsome (18:05):
Well, right.
So if you discover that thathad happened and once again I'll
say I don't think that happensa lot I don't see an upside to
companies being dishonest aboutthe during the interview process
, knowing the candidates goingto figure it out quickly, that
just seems like a waste ofeveryone's time.
I haven't encountered that much.

(18:26):
I think it's more nuance thanthat when, as I'm starting to
think of these scenarios wherewow, there's a lot of pressure,
I didn't get that there wasgoing to be so much pressure, or
that they're workaholics, rightand boy.
That's not really what I wantand I didn't pick up on that in

(18:48):
the interview.
Now I think an employer shouldtry to.
One of my approaches in hiringand specifically in recruiting
has always been let me get allthe bad out of the way.
Let's start with that.
Let's let's.
If I know when I'm recruitingfor a client that the manager
has is a really hard driver, hashigh expectations, really just

(19:13):
not everyone is going to likeworking for that manager I want
to share that with the candidateearly in the process because
you don't want these bad thingscoming out at the end when
everything otherwise looked good.
So that is, I suspect, a commonmistake, because companies

(19:35):
probably the biggest recruitingmistake that I see out there is
this applies to staffingcompanies as well as to end user
companies who are hiring theywant to sell the candidate right
, you alluded to that earlierand no, no, no, no.
Talk the candidate out of it,right?
Because then you know that it'sreally a good match.

(19:56):
If I only tell you the goodit's like going on a date with
someone for the first time,they're going to put their best
face on.
Or if you're on a datingplatform, right, they're not
putting the pictures of whenthey wake up in the morning.
I assume right, I've never beenon one, had to use a dating app
.
That's going to be Lutron Petewatch.

(20:18):
I'm just going to make that'swhat I consider to be a safe
assumption that people areputting their best foot forward.
Right, let me see what youreally look like.
And then all of a sudden.
Well, that's how you shouldapproach an interview process,
because it is kind of like amarriage, right, you don't get
the chance to find out what theylook like in the morning after

(20:39):
you've been there.
You don't want to find that outafter a week.
But there's also the realitythat you never really know what
someone's like until you lookwith them.
That's another thing that I'vethought.
So I could do all the screeningin the world, but the attempt
should be there to say here'swhere things may go wrong if you
or we may not align the betterjob you do of putting those on

(21:03):
the surface up front.
I think that's a way to go.

Ricky Baez (21:08):
So for everybody out there listening, I just wanted
to be clear.
Pete just advocated that whenyou get married there has to be
a 90 day probationary period.
That's what I got out of it,I'm kidding.

Pete Newsome (21:20):
Well, I will say this.
There are things that you don'tknow about someone until you
have the chance to live withthem.
Listen, I've been married for26 years.
I love my wife dearly, but whyshe insists on moving things on
my bathroom sink and letting herlook however she wants is a

(21:43):
mystery I'll never solve.

Ricky Baez (21:46):
Oh, Pete.
Every guy listening to thisright now said oh my God me too.

Pete Newsome (21:55):
Apparently.
There's rules, ricky, that youhad to figure out after 26 years
.
But look, we know that's goingto happen in every scenario.
So this is not the topic ofwhat we're doing today, but the
takeaway from this is, I wanteveryone to know try to avoid
this on the front end.
Try to make sure you align inthe interview process.

(22:15):
That applies to employees aswell as employers.
So anything else on that one,before we move on.

Ricky Baez (22:20):
Yes, you used a good line because when you and I
have had several conversationsin the past about this guy that
interviewed you in the past andFred, I'll tell you the bad part
of it.
This job is 7 to 7 all thesehours.
Are you okay with that?
And you force them toself-adject and the people who
stuck around they know what toexpect.
So that's the best way to goout there.

(22:40):
If you're an interviewer, ifyou're hiring authority, please
make sure that you put out thegood, the bad and the ugly.
If you're interviewing and Iwant to know what you think
about this, pete if you're theinterviewer, the candidate, how
do you feel about asking hey,you mind, if I talk to three
random people on my way out, howdo you feel about that?

Pete Newsome (23:00):
Well, I think it's .
Depending on the situation.
It may be odd, it may beawkward, it may be hard to do
because you're still trying toget the job as a candidate, and
so if you decide that you'retrying to take control, there's
some risk associated with that,and so I don't know that I'd

(23:21):
give that advice universally.
I like the concept.
I think, as a candidate, doyour own research should be part
of the equation, and I don'tmean getting on an online review
site where people go with theiraccess to grind.
That is not the thing to do.
But try to use your network toget the real scoop and ask.

(23:44):
It's sort of like asking for awhat is it called a referral?
Or if, hey, give me a reference, who's bought your product or
services in the past?
Can I?
Yeah, I mean, it'd be great.
I just think for a lot ofcandidates, a lot of scenarios
is going to be hard to pull off.

Ricky Baez (24:01):
Yeah, it would, especially on the interviewer
side.
Every organization has that oneperson that I don't want the
candidates talking to Right.
Well, chances are they'll getthat person.

Pete Newsome (24:13):
Yeah, well, okay.
So let me, let's just closewith this.
I'm going to look in the cameradirectly and make sure I say
this to any recruiter who'slistening rule candidates out.
Don't talk them into a job.
Find the bad on both sides,share it, bring it to the
surface and then, once you dothat, if everything still looks
good, move forward Right.

(24:34):
But bad news early is good news, that we know.
So okay.
Next one you hit a careerceiling, can't go anywhere.
So here's my quick thought onthat you still have to stay long
enough to get the benefit ofbeing in the role.
So I don't I'm not an advocatefor job hopping.
For that reason you have to.

(24:56):
If you say that you were a, thisis a terrible analogy.
But if you were a Sherpa, youknow, on Mount Everest, but you
only lasted two days, right, Ican't really give you credit for
death defying.
You know incredible work andeffort, right.

(25:16):
But if you did that for twoyears, I suspect the ceiling is
relatively low.
As a Sherpa on Mount Everest,right, I mean no pun intended on
the height, but that thatthere's no, there's no great
advancement opportunities fromfrom the Sherpa profession.
However, if you're going to, ifyou're going to get the benefit

(25:37):
of it on your resume and andnot have it be a negative on you
, you've got to stick it out fora certain period of time.
You've actually gone throughthe cycle, dealt with the
inevitable adversity of that jobbrings with it and that you've
overcome long enough to you know, to get credit in my mind.

Ricky Baez (25:55):
That's right, it's look, it's now.
It depends on what you want.
A lot of people out there theythey don't want to get promoted,
they just want to stay wherethey are and that's it.
It's perfectly okay.
But if those of you who do wantto get promoted, before you
jump ship, if you see thatcareer ceiling, does your boss
know about your ambition?
Does your organization knowwhat you want to do?

(26:16):
Because if you don'tcommunicate to them right, maybe
, maybe, maybe they thought wedon't need this position now
that we don't need one extraposition.
Talk to them, let them knowwhat your ambitions are Now,
before you bring that up, youbetter make sure you're
performing, cause let me tellyou, if you're not performing,
if you're in a pip, it's thatthat conversation is.
I'm going to be honest it'sgoing to fall in deaf ears,

(26:38):
because what I'm going to say isI'm happy for your ambition,
I'm happy that you have thisdrive.
Let's focus on your performanceright now first, and then we'll
get there.

Pete Newsome (26:46):
So this is an interesting.
It brings up an interestingpoint in something that I will
tell you.
I is an area I don't have greatadvice to give.
I should, given by experience,but I don't on this particular
space, and what I'm referring tois this I've seen clients, when

(27:08):
interviewing, irrationallyexpect their candidates to
commit to staying a long time,and I mean indefinitely.
And I'm specifically thinkingof some relatively low end
positions, early careerpositions, positions that you
could expect a candidate wouldwant to evolve out of right in

(27:30):
advance, from where, if theyhear I eventually want to go to
grad school for XYZ, that wouldrule the candidate out.
On the other side, I've seenemployers rule out candidates
for not having showing enoughambition in their in their role.
Wow, they were content to sitat XYZ position too long.

(27:51):
They don't seem to be hungryenough for me in the what I'm
looking to hire.
So I think in both of the thesescenarios, most of the time the
expectations of the manager areunrealistic.
It's a personal style, it'ssomething that they latched on
to an interviewing versus theorganization's perspective as a

(28:13):
whole, and probably also the itdoesn't realistically represent
the situation right and what.
It's just something the managerhas, you know does right, and
so I can't say here's where Istruggle with the advice.
I can't say wow, answer thisway, always say that you want to

(28:34):
stay forever.
Or always say that you'relooking to, you know you're
really ambitious and you want tomove up because it's not going
to serve you well.
So the best I can you knowadvice I can give there is just
to be honest and genuine in thatanswer.
Now, that should always be thecase, but there's a little
gamesmanship when it comes tointerviewing and building a
resume and all that.

(28:56):
We know that right, you have totry to find an advantage for
yourself and just like thedating app pictures you don't
want to on your resume, put whatyou look like in the morning,
if you're, you want to put yourbest foot forward.
So more than one thing is truehere.
But be honest about yourambition.

(29:17):
So then you don't find outafter the fact hey, there's
nowhere for you to advance toolate.
You know to have thatdiscussion now.

Ricky Baez (29:25):
And Pete, I'm about to throw something out here,
left field.
I'm a huge fan of a show calledSons of Anarchy and, for those
of you who don't know, that is ashow about a fictitious town in
California where thismotorcycle club just runs
rampant all over there, thatplace.
There was this one line set inthat show that resonated with me
, and this is 10 years later,and the line was always tell the

(29:47):
truth, regardless what happensout of it and what's supposed to
happen and what happens, thenegative things that happens
after you tell the truth.
That's what's supposed tohappen, right.
And that stuck with me for along time, and I use that in
interviews, I use thateverywhere.
Because if a candidate says,look, I don't want to move on, I
want to go to school, and theorganization says, well, I'm not

(30:09):
going to hire you, that's notthe job for you, right, that's
not the job for you, thenBecause if you lie and you do
that and you decide to go tograd school, and the next thing
you know you're going to haveissues rescheduling later on,
right, you might as well startoff on the right foot with an
organization who your valuesresonate with theirs and vice
versa.
That's the best thing, sons ofAnarchy.

(30:31):
Great show Fx.

Pete Newsome (30:33):
So let me just add onto that and you see if you
disagree with this Always behonest, but don't unnecessarily
put out information that may belimiting.
Agreed, if you're planning togo to grad school, I don't think
that's your ex, you're notobligated to.
I don't think you should feelthat way.
I don't where it's unrealisticto think.

(30:55):
I should know the statistics onthis.
I don't off top of my head howmany times people change jobs in
their careers, what the averagetenure is, but it job changes
frequent.
If I had to estimate, I wouldsay people change jobs in their
professional career probably 10times on average, and that could
be love.

Ricky Baez (31:15):
I don't think it's high, it's not high by much If
so.

Pete Newsome (31:19):
But my point is odds are you're not going to
stay forever.
I mean that's we want to go inhoping for the best, but you
don't have to say, oh, by theway, last thing is, you're
walking out of the door.
I plan to leave here in threeyears.
Don't volunteer thatinformation.
So, even though you shouldanswer honestly if asked

(31:39):
directly, don't go out of yourway to interject something that
is just going to limit yourability to get the job If asked
don't lie.

Ricky Baez (31:50):
If not asked, don't tell there you go, there you go.
I should run for president.

Pete Newsome (31:55):
Well, you said don't lie.
So I don't know.
I don't know if you'requalified.

Ricky Baez (31:59):
It's a shame.

Pete Newsome (32:00):
It's a shame it's automatically out.
So the next one on the list isif you see your company having a
series of layoffs.
Now, I'm not so sure about thisone, while that's something to
pay attention to.
That one's tough man Is becausecompanies go through layoffs for
so many reasons.
As you know as an HRprofessional, there's legal
reasons that you made declare alayoff that are just a way of

(32:24):
cleaning house, so to speak.
It's the best thing theorganization could do from a
help and wellness standpoint,for that benefits the current
employees.
So you can't just on thesurface say, wow, they're going
through layoffs, I need to leave.
On the other hand, I've beenpart of this where there's signs

(32:44):
that the company is just goingin the wrong direction.
Without a plan, there's nolight at the end of the tunnel.
So you may want to look.
You should always be lookingout for yourself and, you know,
planning ahead.
Agreed, is that a red flag or areason to start taking action?
It's worth paying attention to,at the very least, I think.

Ricky Baez (33:07):
I'm on the fence, pete.
I'm on the fence because westarted this show talking about
if your work isn't recognized,that's a sign that you should
leave.
But let me tell you, if you'reconsidering leaving because your
organization has just had aseries of layoffs, think about
what that says about your workethic.
If you survive the layoff, thatmeans your work is being
recognized.

(33:27):
If you survive the layoff, thatmeans you are valuable to the
organization.
Right, but nobody knows how badit's going to get, because it's
going to be a point where, nomatter how valuable your
position is, if theorganization's got to cut, the
organization's got to cut.
But I feel weird about that onebecause I think if you survive

(33:48):
the layoff, that is theorganization's way of
inadvertently telling you you'revaluable.

Pete Newsome (33:52):
Yes.

Ricky Baez (33:53):
Right now.

Pete Newsome (33:54):
And it's natural for people to worry.
I think the bigger the company,the farther away you are from
where the decision's made.
You don't have great clarity onwhy it's being done, and so I
recommend to ask.
I'm a big believer in ask whereyou stand all the time.
Everyone has the right to dothat and deserves an answer to

(34:16):
it.
I have probably shared thisbefore, but one of the
surprising things to me as abusiness owner for the past two
decades is how infrequentlypeople will come and clarify
things where I don't find outuntil too late to do anything
about it.
Someone misinterpretedsomething or heard something

(34:38):
that bothered them.
Well, I want to know.
I want to know if you'reworried or concerned.
I will always have an answer tothat.
They may not be the answer theindividual wants to hear, but
I'll always give the answer andI want the opportunity to know
what's bothering any employeethat we have.
So that's.

(34:58):
I don't know if that'suniversal, but I think you
should.
Don't worry and wonder in thewater cooler.
Talk, so to speak.
Go to the source, go to yourmanager and say I'm concerned
about this.
Should I be right?
Yep, Put it out there.

Ricky Baez (35:15):
And look, do do what I did with my team back in the
day.
When my team got laid off overin Sears, they were not
surprised why?
Because after every layoff wesurvived.
I'm like guys, don't celebrate,we could be next next time.
Always have a plan B.
Come in, do the job to the bestof your ability, but at the
same time, exactly like you said, you have to look out for
yourself.
Always have a plan B in casethis boot drops and the dead.

(35:38):
Smooth transition, smooth Allright.

Pete Newsome (35:41):
So next up, I'm going to combine two.
Okay, topic work environment.
Love that word.
And then it's affecting yourmental health, right?
You're?
You're, the stress is too much,your mental health is declining
.
So talk to work environment.

Ricky Baez (35:58):
Okay.
So here is here's.
I have to define toxic workenvironment, because a toxic
work environment in an office isradically different than a
toxic work environment in aconstruction site.
I have a client that, let metell you, when I'm going to see
these guys at the constructionsite, I'm like, wow, I didn't
hear that in the Marine Corps,right, but they get along.

(36:19):
That is their environment.
To me, a toxic work environmentis only defined if the
environment in which everybodythrives don't thrive.
That's what a talk, what a talkto a toxic work environment,
for one place is very differentthan another.
So let's talk about a workenvironment.
If you have a manager that'sconstantly yelling, you have a

(36:42):
manager constantly puttingpeople down.
It doesn't have to be a manager, it could be an employee, it
could be a coworker, where yougo home at night and your chest
is hurting.
I've had that happen, pete.
I've had that happen a longtime ago.
I come home I was in my early30s and I'm like, am I really
about to have a heart attack?
And it wasn't because of thetaco I had earlier, it's because
of what's happening at work.

(37:02):
It's that's if you, if yourmental health is suffering, if
your relationship and home issuffering because of what's
happening at work.
It is definitely time to jumpship, definitely.

Pete Newsome (37:14):
It's.
This is also very personal andsubjective, to say the least.
You have the definition oftoxic work environment.
We could talk for hours aboutthat, because what I consider to
be normal work environmenttoday in many cases is it would
be labeled toxic by a lot ofpeople.

(37:36):
Also, it's beginning footballseason, which means hard knocks
is on TV.
They're doing the Green BayJets.
Green Bay Jets oh my God.
Aaron Rodgers of the Green BayPackers is now a jet a New York
jet, of course and if you watchthat show, they're using

(37:58):
language or talking to eachother in a way that to your
point earlier about theconstructions, I would not apply
and be okay in a regular officeenvironment and that's okay
there, and no one's gettingupset, right, everyone's
expecting it.
It's part of the culture.
So I struggle with thisdefining it.
I don't want to try to defineit because it's just such a

(38:21):
personal thing, but, like yousaid, if your job is affecting
you outside of the officementally, emotionally,
physically then it's a badsituation for you.
Whether it's a bad situation, Ithink that's what I want to
separate Just because it's badfor you doesn't mean it's bad,

(38:43):
and that is probably more asocietal scenario that we have
going on right now where justbecause something doesn't work
out, it doesn't mean someone wasin the wrong Right, it doesn't
mean you have to blame.
Don't blame your employer forbeing who they are and that's

(39:05):
great.
Well, I mean, it's true andI've experienced that.
I experienced on Glassdoor aformer employee in one of our
offices in another city.
We don't have any more.
They made us work these hoursand they constantly were trying
to get us to produce.
Literally.

Ricky Baez (39:26):
The complaint on Glassdoor was our job
description, effectively, andI'm like I love it, and that's
just more about the author thananything else, right?

Pete Newsome (39:38):
But it was the takeaway from that and it's no
fun getting those kind ofreviews, even as unwarranted as
it might be, because that's thereality of that individual and
that's okay for them.
They should move on.
But it doesn't mean thesituation was bad.
So just know that.
And I'll just use this as anopportunity to say, if you do

(40:01):
depart, because for thosereasons right, and I've been
there too I've been in asituation where I dreaded going
into work on Monday yes, that issomething to move on from.
That's right.
It doesn't mean with the onesituation that I come up with.
It's happened to me once in mycareer, really, really blatantly
.
I inherited a manager, which isusually when these things kind

(40:26):
of happen not someone that hiredme, not someone I agreed to go
work for, just situationally, asI moved within the organization
.
This person came in, was hiredabove me Not a good fit, not a
good fit and I for years wasblame the individual right.
But then I realized it was myfault, even though I thought I

(40:47):
knew better at the time andperhaps I did.
This person was in charge.
My job, reporting to them, wasto make sure they were happy
with my performance.
I chose to take a differentapproach and so it became toxic.
By any.
Definitely it was an awfulrelationship, but I was.
I still have to takeresponsibility for it, and so

(41:11):
the day I left I didn't feelthat way.
For a year after I didn't feelthat way.
It's been a long time.
And I could look back and go.
I get it.
That was me Right, and so I'vebeen better on the other side of
it.
But just know that if you're ina bad situation you should
consider moving on if it'sreally affecting you outside of
work.

Ricky Baez (41:31):
Can I say something real quick about that, because
you said something reallyimportant that I want the
audience to really hone in on.
Folks, did you realize what hejust said?
Self reflection.
That's important in thesesituations.
In these situations, if you'renot jiving with somebody, if
you're not, if you're not reallyreally you know being efficient
or working with somebody, takea step back.

(41:53):
And I'm not being funny here,are you the problem?
It's the problem.
You try to check those boxesout first before you keep
approaching it.
Right For you, pete.
It took a long time To me.
Sometimes I noticed it in aninstant.
Sometimes I noticed it fiveyears later right, but it was me
right.
So that I just don't want tomove on from this particular

(42:14):
piece without saying you have totake a self reflection and see
if you are adding to this issueand if you remove yourself or
things going to be instantly bebetter.
You posted something the otherday that was really profound and
I'm surprised it didn't get asmany traction as it did.
You said something to theeffect Could you imagine, just
for the slightest second, ifyou're the one that's wrong?

(42:36):
How did that quote go?
You put it out there and it wasperfect.
You put it on.

Pete Newsome (42:40):
It was because it was on Twitter, where, you know,
I don't have a lot ofinteraction, but it was a
conversation I had with my kids.
We all are quick to judge.
I think whether we try to beyour, some are better than
others.
Right, I'm at times quick tojudge, so it could be something
like you know, you're in trafficand you perceive that someone

(43:03):
cuts you off and you're upset atthat individual.
They have their own perspectiveon that right, and if you just
assume that you're right always,I think that's a dangerous path
to go down.
And if you just apply that inevery scenario, hey, what if I'm
wrong?
Let me consider the possibilitythat I'm the one not wrong

(43:24):
about hey, this is blue or green, or there's four of those,
clearly not two.
What if I'm in the wrong?
What if my perspective isskewed on this one and I'm being
unjust in the way I'm lookingat this situation?
Just think how everything wouldbe different, right?

(43:47):
More people need to do that Imean I certainly need to do it,
and so it's one of those thingswhere I said it to my kids.
I'm like, well, I better,they're looking at me, so I need
to try to do that too.
So that was where it came from.

Ricky Baez (44:02):
Excellent.
I mean I thought I thought itwas.
It was perfect.
I'm like right, we're so up toshow our position, we don't take
a step back, Even think aboutif we're the ones adding fuel to
the fire.
So I just thought it was good.

Pete Newsome (44:17):
And this is some are much better than others at
doing it in the moment, andespecially with something like
work.
I mean, everyone goes into anew career opportunity, hopeful
and expecting that it's going tobe good.
Right, the honeymoon period, ifyou will.
And why am I on like thisrelationship kick today,
everything's about real.
Because it is right it is.

(44:37):
It's where you spend yourwaking hours.
The relationship you have withyour employer and employees is
an intimate one in many cases.
Right, you're so tied together,but we all want it to work out
on the front end, but the oddsshow that it's not going to
ultimately work out right, youleave every job except one.

(44:58):
That's the definitive truth,just like a relationship, every
relationship you're in is goingto end except for one.
And so if you go into that justnot looking to, or you leave
not looking to blame but tolearn, that is the healthy way
to do it.
But so hard in the moment,that's right.

(45:19):
So hard, it's really easy tolook back.
Right, it's easy to sit behinda microphone and say it when
having to be accountable toanyone or anything, and you're
not having to back it up.

Ricky Baez (45:30):
But speaking of which, I have an issue with
something on this list.
Right, because let's say allthese things are happening,
let's say your job is not beingrecognized, it's a toxic work
environment.
If you made a constant decision, you know what I need to leave,
right?
One of the things on here thatI think you and I might disagree

(45:53):
on if you make sure you leavethe job at the right time,
because you have to know when toleave depends how bad things
are and you just say I'm goingto leave, there's a point here
that says don't leave withoutanother opportunity lined up.
I don't know if that's truetoday, as it was 10 years ago,

(46:16):
because right now, pete, if I'mupset at something right, and
I'm like you know what, I don'thave time to interview.
Let me just leave, and you andI have talked about this before.
I can make $600 this weekendeasily on Uber Lift all these
things to carry me over until Ihave another job.
But I think people right nowhave an out before having

(46:38):
something else lined up to holdthem through, and the reason I'm
big on this is I talk to everyLyft or Uber driver that I take
and I travel quite a bit.
I just got back from PuertoRico on Monday night and I was
talking to the Uber driver andhe's a perfect example guy from
Venezuela, being here for 20years.
He hated his job, he quit, he'strying to find something else

(46:59):
and he's doing this.
In the meantime, he makesalmost 80% doing Uber than what
he was making.
That is real job, so he's justtaking a 20% cut for him to find
some sanity.
What do you say about that?

Pete Newsome (47:12):
So I would.
I would say that universally isnot something I would recommend
, but also these individuals whogo into that gig work that is,
having a plan and something togo to.
So I just want to verify that.
Okay, where the plan may not bethat next great job lined up,

(47:38):
the career move that you hope isindefinite, right, that offers
everything you're looking for,but they still sound like they
had a plan, versus quitting outof emotion and not knowing
what's coming next.
I don't support that becausethere's so many factors beyond
your control.
You really need to know yourmarketability and what your

(48:01):
options are, and there's a lotof people looking for a job
right now, more so than therehas been since during COVID.
But I don't even that was suchan abnormal time in the job
market.
You almost can put that aside.
Right, we know that was justnot a normal situation.
But if I look back on howthings I'm going to say feel

(48:24):
right now, compared to the 25years I've been paying attention
to these things, it doesn'tfeel good right now to be
unemployed.
It doesn't feel good right nowto be.
I don't think this is a greattime to be on the market.
There are things you can do toincrease the odds in your favor.
Different show We've talkedabout that, but leaving without

(48:48):
a plan.

Ricky Baez (48:50):
Proceed with God.
It's scary, I get it.
It's scary.
Sometimes people do that.
I've had employees that theyleft just because they wanted
that extra, which didn't makesense, to be honest.
Now, this is before Uber.
I had an employee come to meand say she was really
frustrated because she cannotget promoted to the next stop,
and I told her I'm like, well,that's mine All right, unless I

(49:11):
quit, get hit by a bus or hitthe lotto.
That's not going to happen.
I get fired.
That's not going to happen,right.
But then she just said you knowwhat?
Then I'm just going to go getsomething else.
And so, do you have somethingelse locked on?
Because she was a good employee, she was really good.
I'm like do you have somethingelse because I can help her?
No, and she just left.
That never made sense to me.
It's because she was concernedor complaining because she could

(49:33):
not get a promotion and go tothe next step, and her answer to
that is go to $0 an hour.

Pete Newsome (49:39):
Yeah Well, I think it's hard to find a.
If you conduct a job searchproperly, it can be a full-time
job If you do it thoroughly.
It can take a lot of time andeffort, but once again, there's
ways to circumvent that.
There's ways to shortcut thatWorking with third-party
staffing companies, making sureyour digital presence is

(50:02):
maximized.
There's so many things you cando while you're still employed.
But there's other scenariosthat exist where it's just
impractical to fully look forthe right job if you're
depending on the hours you workin the situation.
So everything is so unique.
But have a plan, think it out,don't go ready, fire aim in that

(50:23):
scenario.

Ricky Baez (50:24):
Tom Peters.
Right, that's Tom Peters,that's his.
The great author, ready fireaim.
I actually like that.

Pete Newsome (50:33):
It's just.
That's not how you shouldapproach your career.
I agree Especially when whatwe're talking about is you've
decided that you need to make amove because the situation
you're in is not aligned withyour goals, is not leading
towards your goals, and whateverthose may be, so personal and
unique, but don't act out ofemotion.

(50:55):
Don't act.

Ricky Baez (50:57):
Well, maybe.
Well, hold on now, becauseyou're saying don't act out of
emotion.
But what if your instinct tellsyou you should leave?
Shouldn't you trust yourinstincts?

Pete Newsome (51:05):
Well, we'll quantify that right.
What does that mean?

Ricky Baez (51:10):
Okay, all right, I show up to work today.
I see my boss.
I'm like God.
I can't stand that guy.
I'm done, I'm going to leave.
Right, something tells me in mystomach I need to leave today.

Pete Newsome (51:22):
I need to resign today.
That makes no sense to me,right?
You just have a feeling todayis the day, that's okay, good
luck.
I mean, one of the lists heresays trust your instincts.
Trust your instincts, sure, butdon't.
That doesn't mean you actimmediately, right, those are.
Separate those, just because,like, your instinct may be

(51:48):
telling you that you need tomake a move.
So my recommendation there isunderstand where that's coming
from, right?
That doesn't just.
Is it a bad vibe?
Can you put your arms aroundwhy you're feeling that way?
Deal with that first.
But let's say you can't, right,let's say you're like I can't
articulate why I feel this way.

(52:08):
I just do when.
It's not going away, it'sgrowing because we all have bad
days.
By the way, I mean yourscenario.
I know you're just throwing itout there, but I walk in this
morning and I go.
I don't like the look of myboss.
I'm leaving, right.

Ricky Baez (52:19):
Don't do that.
You're a Star Trek fan.

Pete Newsome (52:21):
No, don't do that.
We all have bad situations.
Assess it, you know.
Step back for a moment.
Don't act on emotion in thatscenario.
So I'm going to double down onwhat I said.
But if you, if the feeling isnot going away, even if you
don't, you don't have to justifyit to anyone else.
It's personal.
Put together a plan on whathappens next.
Don't play with this loosely.

(52:44):
Depending on the obligationsthat you have, the
responsibilities that you'recommitted to other people you're
accountable for.
Whatever it might be right,there's a very big difference in
a you know, someone who's in a,who doesn't have many bills to
pay or is independently wealthy,versus someone who is a sole

(53:04):
provider for a family and livespaycheck to paycheck.
Sometimes you have to suck itup because of your personal
situation.
You are responsible for yourown results ultimately, and so I
caution the hey act on emotion.

Ricky Baez (53:24):
So that's where I was trying to get to, because
your instincts would tell you ifthe job is not right for you,
but it should not be theindicator for you to jump ship.
That just means start planning.
Start planning because rightnow, if you said right now I'm
not, you know, I can't standthis job, I'm going to jump ship
.
Not a good time.
The market is not great rightnow.
Do you know how many people areout there right now

(53:46):
involuntarily looking for a jobbecause of layoffs?
Consider the job market.
So what this means is have astrategy, have a plan and know
when to strike and let youremployer give you employer some
time.
Don't just show up one day andsay I'm leaving today, I'm going
to give you my two minutenotice.
That's never going to go well.

Pete Newsome (54:06):
We've talked about that a lot right now.
We have.

Ricky Baez (54:08):
Just give them enough time, at least two weeks,
right?
Depending on your position.
I'm talking to somebody rightnow and this person a bit for
this organization for 25 years.
And this person I'm talking toright now, she is in a really
bad spot because if she leavesright now, the organization goes
under.
And I told her you give them athree month notice, three months

(54:29):
, and let them know by this dayI'm gone.
Now she can say that right,because they're not going to
fire her.
They need her, right, butthat's plenty of time for the
organization to set up acontingency plan for when she
leaves.

Pete Newsome (54:42):
Now, Ricky, people will hear that and say the
employer doesn't deserve that.
Why should you do that for them?

Ricky Baez (54:47):
Well, you know I can understand why people say that,
because if you was to, west ofFame is saying, if he was to die
, your position will be opposedto before your obituary, will?
I mean?
That's true?
I mean it will be naive of meto think that the organization

(55:09):
is going to wait three months,right, for me, after my death
that's not going to happen,right?
But here's what I'm telling you.
The organization may notdeserve it, but your business
partners do, the people you workwith, do the boss who you get
along with, do they deserve it?
Forget the organization.
Focus on the people who you'veworked with for the past 25

(55:30):
years who deserve that kind oftime.
That's what you want to focuson.

Pete Newsome (55:35):
That's a good way to put it.
I like that, and these arethings that you're not going to
see.
There's no guidebook on that.
It just comes down to doing theright thing, so that's an area
where you should trust yourinstinct.
You know, in particular, right,does this feel right?

Ricky Baez (55:52):
Yeah, and now, now again, I told her three months
just because of her position aregular position, two weeks,
give them two weeks, guys, letthem know, right, even if you
don't think they deserve it,that's fine.
You got some people out therewho don't deserve to go through
all that turmoil because youdecided to jump ship early.

Pete Newsome (56:10):
Yes.

Ricky Baez (56:11):
And that's what you got to think about.

Pete Newsome (56:13):
So that's a great point, so, but there's what
about reasons not to leave?
Let's knock out some of thesereal quick before we wrap up.

Ricky Baez (56:21):
Oh, I'll tell you that I can see it is right now.
If you have an amazing boss, ifyou have an amazing team, if
you have an amazing businesspartners, you're not going to
leave.
I'm an example of that, pete.
I'm an example.
I worked at Sears HomeImprovement, for I thought I was
going to work there for sixmonths.
I worked there for seven years.
Why that three, three legacystool was real.

(56:43):
My boss was awesome.
My I had an amazing team andbusiness partners who really
cared about HR and they reallylisten.
I stayed there for seven years,getting paid 30% less of what I
was worth and the reason I wasOK with that a I live below my
means and B I value that workenvironment more than 30% more
on my paycheck.
Now I'm at a place in my careerwhere I can't do that.

(57:06):
I understand there's somepeople, exactly how you said
earlier, who live paycheck topaycheck to the sole breadwinner
of their family, who, as muchas they want to do that, they
cannot do that.
So I understand that it dependson what you value.
So if what you value is aliveand well in that organization,
that is a great reason to stayRight.

(57:28):
It depends on what you value inlife.
You value flexibility.
You're getting it.
Stay Right.
You value great relationshipwith your people.
Stay Right.

Pete Newsome (57:39):
Well, and we know that bad things will happen
eventually in every situation.
If you're there for seven years, it's not all going to be rosy,
we know that.
So don't leave just because youmake a mistake.
In fact, I think that's areason to stay and prove that
you can get on the other side ofthat Right.

(58:00):
Don't leave because you werepassed over for a promotion
Right Same thing.
Use that as an opportunity.
It hurts, though there's areason it hurts.
Yeah, it's not fun, but why?
Why did that happen?
Ask the question, no reflection.
Because, well, ricky Jane was abetter farmer than you were,
right, yeah?

(58:22):
She's a star trek fan and thenyou decide whether you can
overcome that.
But don't leave just becausebad things happen or something
comes up once, right?
Or because you have to.
It's going to happen, it'sinevitable, yeah.

Ricky Baez (58:43):
It's.
You know the best way.
You know what's the best way todecide whether you have a great
organization to work with.
If you see it about to hit thefan and you know you've got some
turmoil coming down the thepike that you have no worries.
The people you get to your leftor to your right, you have no
worries.
You're going to come over goodon the other side with the folks

(59:03):
you got.
That's when you know you shouldstay Right.
Everything's golden when it'snice and peachy.
The true colors come out whenthings do not go according to
plan.
The true colors come out whenthe organization has a bumpy
route and the organization, theteam that sticks together in
that process, just do it.
You know, when you got peoplewho served in the military, they

(59:24):
see a lot of nasty stufftogether.
Then they come out.
They have a better relationshipwith each other than the people
that they grew up with.
Right, because people who gothrough misery, people who go
through all those hard timestogether, that builds bonds and
it builds relationships.
Let me tell you I've gone a lotthrough it in other situations

(59:44):
and it builds bonds.

Pete Newsome (59:46):
That's what's going on, much more so than when
things are just easy and good.
When things are going well, itseems easy.
So at that point too, if youare criticized by your boss,
that's not a reason to feelcompelled to leave.

(01:00:08):
Now, there's extremes to this.
Criticism is necessary andvaluable.
That's how you evolve andimprove.
Would you rather be in asituation where you're never
going to be promoted, you're notvalued enough very much in the
organization because you'reconsistently doing something

(01:00:29):
wrong that you don't know waswrong, versus your manager
saying hey, ricky, this is whatyou're not doing correctly.
Here's a way to improve it.
Here's a path to gain power.
Here's a path to gain past it.
Of course you want to be armedwith that.
Now, the way I presented itright in this moment seems

(01:00:52):
different than reality, maybebecause that message sometimes
could be shared in a not-so-kindway.
You consider that too, but youneed feedback in order to grow
on a wall.
The person willing to give itis usually someone who has your
best interest.
They may have their owninterest in mine too.
That's okay.
That's the nature of theemployee-employee relationship.

(01:01:14):
But they're telling you foryour own benefit as well,
because the alternative is nothelping.

Ricky Baez (01:01:24):
What's more important than giving feedback?
Receiving it.
You have to be able to receiveit right.
And you know what?
If you receive feedback,sometimes it's going to be great
, that's awesome.
What you really need to payattention is how you're going to
react when it's not goodfeedback.
Right, because you're right,the reason you're getting

(01:01:44):
feedback.
If the person did not careabout you, they're not going to
give you the feedback.
If they care about yourperformance at work, and
obviously if the person reportsto you, then their neck is on
the line as well, right, so theyhave an incentive to give you
some constructive feedback.
Folks, you have to be able totake the feedback.
You're not perfect.

(01:02:04):
Your boss isn't perfect as muchas he or she tries to look like
one.
You have to be able to takethat feedback.
Take it with stride.
And here's the thing Even ifit's feedback you don't deserve,
don't get emotional with it.
As for clarification, therecould be a complete
misunderstanding on theobjectives, but sometimes people

(01:02:26):
go off on tangents and payfeedback they don't understand
instead of asking forclarification.
So open those lines ofcommunication.

Pete Newsome (01:02:32):
There's a scenario that comes to mind when you say
that with an employee a currentemployee, so I'm not going to
share too many details whoreceived feedback that was
unfounded, by someone who was nolonger associated with our
organization.
It was off base, but at thetime it was meaningful, it was

(01:02:54):
the reality of the moment thefeedback and the employee who
received the feedback said Idon't get this, I don't think
this is warranted.
I think you know what I'mtalking about and I was sort of
independent of it.
I was involved, but notdirectly, and what I said was

(01:03:15):
then prove that right, overcomeit.
Don't take it.
You have to absorb it for whatit is Now.
Go prove that it was wrong.
Very few people do that.
I think it is really hard to do.
This was an intense situation.
It turned out to be the bestthing.

(01:03:35):
I wish it hadn't happened, ofcourse, but I would make a case
that it made this individual somuch better and should be so
much more confident on the otherside of it and prove to be.
The other person was blatantlywrong and it was just.
It was a very good ending to ascenario.
So absorb it, learn from it andthen grow and improve, whatever

(01:04:01):
that means.
And then if you decide afterdoing that, you conclude that
it's not going to matter, thatthe feedback is just never going
to improve, that you're nevergoing to be treated fairly, then
you have to make your owndecision right.
But on the surface, feedbacktells you where you stand and

(01:04:23):
gives you the opportunity to dosomething about it.
It's very valuable.

Ricky Baez (01:04:26):
Everybody listening to this right now.
Just digest what Peach has said.
Right, if you are givenfeedback that you do not agree
with, do not get defensive.
Ask for clarification.
Help me understand why we cameto that conclusion because you
want to be inquisitive, notdefensive?
Okay, if you become defensive,it takes the conversation to a

(01:04:46):
completely different place.
There's a good chance.
The boss is wrong.
There's also a good chance theboss is right.
This is the time to have aconversation, and when your boss
tells you you know what?
Okay, I wasn't there, provethem wrong.
Take that opportunity as thelook.
You're right on the goal line,the game is almost over.
You got to cross it, thattouchdown and the game is over.

(01:05:07):
That's what you need to do.
Take that information andimprove from Ron Because, look,
in this situation, pete, aren'tyou glad that happened now?
Right, because he was able toget more clarification from that
person, or no?

Pete Newsome (01:05:20):
I yes and no, because the yes is on the other
side of it.
I'm glad how it ended up, but Iwish I hadn't let it happen in
the first place.
Got it, I got it, but it wasbecause it was firsthand
involved.
I had to let it play out tosome degree.
So again, I don't want to sharetoo many details of it, but I'm

(01:05:45):
certainly thankful that itended up the way it did.
So the right person won.

Ricky Baez (01:05:54):
So all this is happening, Pete?
All this is happening.
I hate my boss, I hate my job.
You're telling me I need a plan.
I shouldn't just trust myinstinct and quit right away,
but you're telling me to have aplan.
What does that plan look like?

Pete Newsome (01:06:09):
So you need to know what's coming on the other
side right as best you can.
So how do we do that whileyou're employed?
Well, it starts with updatingyour resume.
That's a given.
Make sure you're active onLinkedIn.
That's the place whererecruiters find people, so go
there.
I always think of it as a freeresume that you can post without

(01:06:31):
having to look over yourshoulder that your employer is
going to see it, but also whereyou can post online.
Sign up for email alerts.
You can go to our sisterwebsite, zengigcom and sign up
for email alerts.
It will be emailed to yourinbox every day of new jobs that
match what you're looking for.

(01:06:54):
Certifications, continuedlearning you can do all of those
things to improve yourself.
So there's short term plans andlong term plans.
You can hire a career coach.
That is a potentially valuablething to do.
Get in touch with staffingcompanies who work in your
industry, in your market, inyour specialty, whatever it
might be.
So there's a lot of things thatyou can do.

(01:07:17):
We have, of course, no shortageof blogs and articles on that,
so check them out.
We'll link them in the shownotes.
But it's all about takingaction, action, action, action.
Don't sit back and wait.
Be proactive, take ownership ofyour own career and your
success.

Ricky Baez (01:07:34):
And folks, it's good that you have an advocate in
your corner, but never rely onan advocate in your corner.
You should always, always beready to advocate for yourself.
You should always be ready toto toot your own horn.
This is the part that I getfrom my students a lot, pete
right that they're afraid theyseem like a feasting to an ego.

(01:07:54):
They might be egotistic if theytalk too much about themselves,
and I'd say that's a greatconcern to have.
But the alternative, thebyproduct of that, is so much
more valuable than what you'reafraid of.
Absolutely Just continue to doit.
Continue to do it.
That's like saying you know, Idon't want to, I don't want to
work out and be healthy, right,and live longer, because you

(01:08:16):
know, planet Fitness gives freepizza every Tuesday.
That's true, by the way.
So so I mean it just doesn'tmake sense, right?
That's a byproduct, right?
I see you smiling.
You've been to Planet Fitnesson Tuesday.

Pete Newsome (01:08:29):
I just know of no, I haven't.
But I know, I know that's theirgimmick.

Ricky Baez (01:08:33):
So it's such a weird gimmick, Anyway.
So that's what you need to do,folks.
Do not be afraid to toot yourown horn.
Now, if you're starting to askfor feedback, this is when you
should self reflect and ask forfeedback.
Train is train yourself.
Record yourself, right.
Giving that 30 second elevatedspeech, right, See, see how you

(01:08:54):
come across.
Give it to your friends andfamily and see how you know what
they tell you.
Now, this was controversial, sofollow me here, Pete.
Give it to people who yougenerally don't like.
Give what Give the recording topeople who you generally don't
like.

Pete Newsome (01:09:10):
Okay, all right.

Ricky Baez (01:09:11):
Here's why.
Here's why.
Here's why yes, they're goingto dial it up to attend, but
there's going to be some truthin there that your mom is not
going to give you and yourspouse is not going to give you,
but the person who doesn't likeyou is going to give you.
I've done that before.
It has worked wonders, becauseI've gotten some great feedback

(01:09:31):
inadvertently that I did not getfrom my own friends or family.

Pete Newsome (01:09:35):
All right, well, that I would, yeah, you would, I
would expect that.
So, if you really want, if youreally want the truth, go.

Ricky Baez (01:09:42):
If you really want your feelings hurt, people would
only cry with a half gallon ofice cream in the public.
Yeah, try that.

Pete Newsome (01:09:48):
All right.
So, with that in mind, I thinkwe have a, we have a plan.
So, yeah, we do lots of thingsto consider when making a
decision to leave, and then whatcomes on the other side of
that's just as important.
So, Ricky, I think we've doneit.
We beat the horse.

Ricky Baez (01:10:05):
This poor horse.
Pete is going to call us.
Pete, yeah, probably going tocall us.
We keep saying that too much.
We had those horses out there.
We've beaten the topic.

Pete Newsome (01:10:16):
Al right.
Well, everyone thanks forlistening.
Drive safe.
Have a great rest of your day,Ricky.
Goodbye for now.

Ricky Baez (01:10:23):
Have a good one, have an amazing weekend.
See you next week.