July 12, 2023 • 47 mins
Ever wondered how millennia-old words from the Bible's Genesis continue to influence and resonate with us today? We've got you covered! We take a deep dive into the profound complexities of Genesis, unearthing powerful insights about Jesus' presence at the start, Lucifer's role in the Garden of Eden, and the purpose of the Tree of Knowledge. We unravel these ancient narratives and how they tie into our modern lives, splicing through the heart of their timeless wisdom.
In an open chat, we candidly share our parenting experiences, drawing interesting parallels with God's parenting style with Adam and Eve. We also discuss the intriguing facets of creation stories and Jesus' lineage, and how they shape our worldview. We recognize that even in abundance, humans tend to seek for something more - a trait that was probably at play in Eden. Buckle up for an introspective journey that takes us back to the roots of our faith and existence.
As we wrap up, we express heartfelt gratitude for our listeners and their supportive feedback. We're stoked to foster a space where diverse opinions are not just tolerated but cherished. Feel free to ping us on Twitter, Facebook, or email - we'd love to hear your thoughts! And remember, if you extend a prayer for us, be assured that we are praying for you, too. So, ready to delve into Genesis and see how it reverberates in your life today? Let's jump right in!
Email: findingfaith.losingsleep@gmail.com
Twitter: @FindingFaithPod
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's time to wake up and pray up here on the Finding
Faith and Losing Sleep podcast,episode 17.
In the beginning Again, I thinknumber two, I don't know we're
doing A and B, maybe C, I don'tknow.
It takes a little while to dothe beginning of the creation of
the world.
I mean, god did it in six days.
We might have to take sixpodcasts to do this, pierre.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
You might.
I mean, and I didn't use thattitle, so it's even funnier that
you're still in the beginning.
Either way, yeah, we're notgoing to rush, you know, through
Genesis, the first book, andit's an important book.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
And you didn't scare me this time, wes, so that's
good.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
How did I scare you last time?
I don't remember In thebeginning.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I knew you always do it, but for some reason last
time it just startled me Becausewe had like a little silence
before we actually jump in and Ithink just the moment that you
jump and then start over.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I think the beginning of the podcast.
You know the moment of silencebeforehand.
I use that as my meditationtime.
You know what I mean.
Like you know that eight or 10seconds I meditate like really
hard right, really hard, rightoff the bat, and that way I get
my mind and my stability for thepodcast right there.
I'm nice and centered for it.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I don't, I just, I just wait.
I just wait for the intro, andready to roll some pretty quick
centering.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Well, yeah, listen, I just make stuff up as I go, I
don't know.
Hey, that's Michelle who justgot done talking the female
voice on this podcast.
You can find her on Twitter atgo pack go.
The other male voice, the onethat has the golden tones on the
other end of this microphone, Iguess it is.
It is her husband, his name isPierre, at Pee Wee 31 over on
(01:41):
Twitter.
He is also the executiveproducer of this podcast, so any
kind of complaints about theproducing of the show, it goes
directly to him.
Any kind of compliments goesdirectly to me.
I am West, easily at low for itover on Twitter.
If you find the show a littlebit amusing, a little bit fun,
maybe that is my responsibility.
I don't know what I bring tothe podcast Y'all.
We just all bring it reallynice and hard because we are
just some average, normal,everyday people trying to work
(02:04):
out life a little bit.
That's why we call it thefinding faith, losing sleep
podcast, because these aretopics that keep people up late
at night, because they're tryingto figure it out, and we are
just trying to address differenttopics, to just talk about them
from three differentperspectives, from three
different angles, and we hope todo it in a way that is pleasing
to the ears.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That's it.
We just kind of share our ownperspective and just kind of
talk through some tough topicsand some not so tough topics and
glad that we have listeners andjust speaking of, we had a Paul
Bruce 45, reach out with a nicereview.
Subject line solid.
You said solid, which I alwaysenjoy, a good solid.
(02:43):
I love this podcast and thepeople who host it.
They have taught me so much andencouraged me to think through
hard stuff in just a little timeinto the podcast.
Your genuine friendship andbanter while a start contrast
sometimes the serious topicsyou're talking about at a level
authenticity that I enjoy.
Keep doing what you're doing.
(03:04):
So, Paul, thank you for that.
We're going to keep doing whatwe're doing.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, no, yeah, thank you, Paul.
I appreciate that, and we askyou to leave a review.
We love to hear from you.
We always ask you at the end ofthe podcast.
If you pray for us, we'll prayfor you.
We kind of say that a littlebit at the end of the podcast
and we do mean that.
I sincerely do.
I pray for the listeners.
I pray for the listeners.
I pray for the talkers too aswell, pierre and Michelle, but I
hope the message gets out therethat we can talk about these
(03:30):
things that are controversial.
And look, the last episode thatwe had, we were talked about
Genesis, chapter one, and theirown kind and stuff.
I don't know that wenecessarily agreed with each
other on those things, but wesaid a lot of things that needed
to be said and, I think, a lotof things that need to be talked
about and a lot of things thatneed to be heard.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, and isn't that kind of the purpose of this?
We don't all agree in generalas a society, so I think it's
important for us to know thatyou can agree to disagree and
still be friends and still careabout people, and it doesn't
have to be hey, shame on youbecause you don't agree with me
on this.
Everybody's going to have toatone for themselves in the end.
(04:11):
It's not going to be a grouphearing, so I think what's
important, though, is that wereally just do our best to try
to understand where people arecoming from, and maybe are and
see things a different waysometimes.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So you know, what I love about the Bible is that it
is talked about in the book ofHebrews that the Bible is living
in, active and sharp with anytwo-edged sword able to pierce
bone and mirror all the way tothe heart.
And so it is living and active.
And we just talked aboutGenesis, chapter one.
Last week, pierre and we got totalking about different things
that were going on in societytoday, and I don't want to say
that.
You can take context, you couldtwist it up a little bit and
(04:51):
you can make it say whatever youwant it to say, to say whatever
you want to say about what'sgoing on in the world today.
But I think it actually wasapplicable and this is a book
and especially Genesis,thousands of years ago, 5,000,
6,000 years ago.
However, you want to debate allthat.
It was written such a long timeago, but it is still applicable
today which talks about thelongevity of the Bible, but also
(05:12):
the longevity of God's Word.
People say it gets old.
People say you know that's anold book.
It doesn't apply to me.
You know that kind of stuff.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Maybe you're in denial, maybeyou haven't read it a lot, maybe
you haven't had an open heartor an open brain whenever you've
read it, but it is somethingthat I think it's very
applicable to today, just as itwas yesterday, pierre.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I agree.
I think that's part of thereason why we kind of talk
through you know some of thesesubjects and try to relate it to
today.
We don't know the context andyou can read other books, you
can read historical books, youcan watch films, movies,
whatever you want to do to tryto get an idea of the context of
(05:53):
the world.
You know back then, but even so, like it's living and breathing
into today's society and that'swhat we're talking through.
And I know, like you said, ourlast episode was some touchy
topics but in all honesty,looking at the first seven days
of each episode we put out, thelast one's probably been the
most popular one that we've hadQuite a few listens and
(06:16):
downloads, which you know Ithink just kind of brings up the
point that these are sometopics that folks are thinking
about and wanting to hearopinions on and it's good to
talk through with it and thenstill come back, you know, a
week later and we're stillfriends and we're still
conversing and talking about newsubjects.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So we're not canceled on anything.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Ah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Well, give us time.
Give us time.
No, no, no, hey, but go backand listen to all those
different podcasts.
I think they're all organic,they all have staying power.
There wasn't anything that wasnecessarily socially relevant at
the time, because I think allthese topics continue to go on
in society right now, and whatthey were doing at that time as
well.
So you can go back, you canlisten to those.
(06:55):
But we do appreciate thecomments, the likes, the stars,
all those things, not for us,but just for the program to be
able to get out there into moreyears, to be able to hopefully
edify other people.
We aren't making a dollar, wearen't making a jot or a tittle.
No, I think jot and tittle islike where you dot your eyes
across your t's.
What would it be?
A denera?
Is that a biblical?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I don't know.
I got worried when you startedsaying the other one.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You said tittle.
You don't say tittle, I'm justsaying tittle His face.
He said tittle.
Jesus said that we're callingjot and tittle.
Jesus said that jot and tittle,and now you got me giggling
about it.
It's just crossing your eyes,and crossing your t's is
basically what that means.
But we're not getting any money, we're not getting any denera
(07:42):
or anything like that fromanything.
So this is all for us, it's foryou, it's for us to be able to
talk about this stuff.
It's a little Bible study thatPierre, michelle and I do and we
just have made it public toeverybody Speaking about Bible
studies.
We were in Genesis, chapter one,last week and we kind of left
off there where God made plantsand he said to go ahead after
their own kind and to multiplyon earth and just start filling
(08:05):
up the earth.
He does the same thing there,as he goes on not only with
plants but with animals as well.
Then he made the two greatlights, pierre and Michelle.
He made the two great lightslike they're in verse 15.
We're just going to zoomthrough this part a little bit,
where he made the sun and themoon and the lesser to separate
them.
Then God saw it was all goodand he made the lesser one to
(08:26):
govern the night and the greaterone to govern the days.
We see the sun and moon get putthere.
Then God said the water isstreaming with new living
creatures and let birds flyabove the earth.
God created sea monsters andevery living creature that moves
sea monsters.
Loch Ness monster right there.
Is that what he's talking about, loch Ness monster?
You reckon?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I think it's a little everything.
Well, sharks, they're alltechnically your sea type
monsters, octopus.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
No, I'm serious, they are weird.
You ever go down.
You ever see that stuff thatgoes way down there under the
sea.
We could explore in the sea along time ago, really down deep.
They stopped doing some ofthose things where there was
super deep sea explorationbecause it was dangerous.
They decided to go the otherway, go up to the moon.
I think it's what they did.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
You saw the Titanic thing that happened.
The other tragedy they tried,and more tragically, Well, what
is it?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
The Mariana trench?
I just saw something I think itwas the Mariana trench last
night about some of thecreatures in the deep that are
just only there, really, that wedon't even know about that
stuff's crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Like an octopus is just a crazy looking thing.
The way it can shrink down andgo through a tube and you look
at it.
It's really big, it's got theeight arms.
It takes up a bunch of spaceuntil it doesn't want to.
Then it gets real skinny andjust goes through a little bit
of old tube and you're likewhere the world is.
That thing made out of Crazy.
I wish I could get.
I need that in my waistlinejust so I can get my belt and
(09:52):
pants on a little bit bettersometimes Get my pants on
Tiddles and waistlines.
Is that the title of this show?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
AI, the person that you put in charge of title in
the show.
Pierre might call it Tiddlesand waistlines.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
It'll show up in the tag notes.
I'm sure it's the amount oftime you said it at this point.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I did it on purpose that last time God made the
beasts of the earth as well tomultiply after their kind.
He made the cattle after theirkind, and everything that creeps
on the ground and everycreeping thing, and he saw that
it was good.
Then, in verse 26, is where itgets a little bit saucy again.
Then God said let us make manin our own image, according to
(10:38):
our likeness, and let them ruleover the fish of the sea, the
birds of the air, and over thecattle and over all the earth
and over every creeping thingthat creeps on the earth.
God created man in his ownimage, in the image of God.
He created him Male and female.
He created them.
You notice there in verse 26, wetalked about what Genesis 1.3,
I think, where we saw where Godwas there, and when I talked
(11:01):
about it being the word Elohim,which is a plurality word back
in the Hebrew, it kind of meansthat there was more than one
thing there.
Then you see God in verse 26.
He said let us make man in ourimage, right, and so we're just
assuming I guess that maybethat's how we've been taught a
little bit that that's theFather, the Son and the Holy
(11:22):
Spirit, right, guys?
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, that's how I take it.
I find it even interesting thenext part with the, and let him
have rule over the fish, the sea, the birds, the air, the cattle
and all things basically on theearth, which I'll dive into a
theory here a little bit on whyI find that part to be unique.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
You're going to leave us all right.
Well, fine, leave us hanginglike that, I'll look forward to
it.
I like a little mystery and thereason why we say we saw the
Spirit in Genesis, chapter oneor earlier, and then we talk
about the Father, the Creatorand all those that kind of
person, but also we talk aboutJesus being there too, the word,
because over in John, chapterone, verse one, it says in the
beginning was the word and theword was with God and the word
(12:07):
was God.
He was in the beginning withGod and all things came into
being by him and apart from him,nothing came into being that
has come into being.
So we put that.
You know, he helped createeverything with the word and we
see Jesus being referred to asthe word many times throughout
the scripture, but definitely byJohn towards the end of that
apostolic era I guess towardsthe end of the hundred years
(12:29):
there after Jesus was born, thathe gave credit to Jesus being
all the way there at thebeginning.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Well, you have to think, like John, who called
himself the one that Jesus loved, would have just kind of
witnessed so much, and so yousee a lot of the I Ams as well
throughout the Bible.
I think part of that goes intothe whole the word and the word
being Jesus itself.
(12:56):
And John just kind of had adifferent perspective with that.
Again, going back in thecontext of what he would have
witnessed.
I thought it was a reallyunique way of him to start off.
You know that gospel.
You know a little differentlythan some of the others.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, and there was definitely.
It feels like there was intentto go all the way back to the
beginning of Genesis.
You know he knew what Genesissaid, so I think at that time he
wanted to give credit andattribution to Jesus being back
there at the same time too, tohelp people understand it a
little bit, I may be readinginto it a little bit much there,
but I don't think so.
So yeah, anyway now.
So go ahead.
(13:32):
Go ahead with your theory,pierre.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So I won't go into just yet.
So you talk about, you know,being made in their image.
So when you think about, forexample and this is a question
I'll toss at both of you whenyou think about anger, is that,
that raft and anger, a part ofGod's image?
That we have ourselves and ourown anger and emotions?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
I'll say yes, I think so, I think so.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Okay, so we've seen it throughout.
But you talk about his creationand I'll kind of dive in and
I'll say that this kind of goesinto chapter two some.
Because on the seventh day, youknow, god came to the end of
his work and he took a rest andat that point with me I feel
(14:24):
like that's just that one momentin time where we're doing what
we expect to do in heaven andthat's just living with God in
peace, where he's just hedoesn't have to work anymore,
it's all good.
So he takes his rest.
But shortly after that, youknow, obviously a creature is
going to come into the mix.
(14:45):
You know what creature I'mreferring to.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
The woman, the serpent.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I'm referring to the serpent.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Don't you dare say that's the same one.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
The woman, and so my thoughts here and again.
This is just one of my theories.
So God created man and woman.
So we have this feeling ofGod's all knowing, and I know
one of the questions that comesup is if he was all knowing, why
(15:16):
would the serpent be in thegarden?
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
with and why you throw it to me first.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Because you always throw it to us, and now it's my
turn to pay you back.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
All right.
So what was the question again,why was?
Why did the serpent end upthere?
Okay, we haven't gone that faryet, but I'm fine with jumping
ahead to that a little bit,because I started trying to put
myself in God's place.
Okay, don't get that, don'ttwist my words whenever I say
that, but I'm just saying from afatherly standpoint.
I'm trying to understand him alittle bit more and as a father
(15:50):
myself, I'm like okay, what am Idoing here?
What am I trying to?
I question all of my motives asa father, sometimes like, okay,
am I doing this right, am Idoing this wrong or whatever you
know?
But what is my purpose?
What is my goal?
And I know I've said before toyou guys that one of my goals as
a dad is to protect mychildren's innocence for as long
as possible.
Right, so I want to try to makemy home a safe place for them.
(16:13):
I'm trying to make my home aplace where they can live
without being afraid.
No, fear, no, anything.
Right, so it's a safe haven.
And so I'm trying to do that.
And I thought about that.
I went huh, maybe that's whatGod was trying to do with the
Garden of Eden.
Right, it's the safe place.
(16:33):
It's the place where nothingcan hurt you, nothing can harm
you, and but, at the same time,no matter how hard you try, now
look, god can do all thingsRight.
God can do all things and heallows things to happen as well.
And no matter how hard I try,there's still things that
infiltrate my protective areathat I try for my children.
(16:56):
There are still things that aregoing to come in there and
going to harm them, that aretrying to pull them away from
what I want them to do for theirown good.
And so I started thinking aboutthat a little bit.
And then we got all these little.
You know, where did Satan comefrom?
Where did the devil come from?
We got some biblical thingswhere it talks about Lucifer
(17:17):
falling from the sky, jesusseeing Satan fall from the
heavens like a star, and then weeven see Jacob's ladder, where
we got angels going up and downthis ladder from the earth to
heaven, from the earth to heaven.
And I'm sitting there thinkingabout those things.
I'm going, wow, there's a lotof stuff going on, right.
We may not be able to know ormay not be able to see.
Then, if you go back into like aMormon religion of what they
(17:40):
believe from the there was likea grand council meeting.
They think there was a grandcouncil meeting up in heaven
between all the angels andLucifer was up there and Jesus
was up there and they basicallysplit all the angels down the
middle and Satan got thoseangels and Jesus got other
angels.
It's really kind of wildwhenever you think about it.
But then you read the book ofJob and you got Satan coming to
(18:05):
and fro on earth, with him goingback and visiting God at some
point and reporting to him andGod allowing him to do things.
So maybe we don't know theentire story of what happened in
the book of Genesis and theGarden of Eden.
Maybe we're not told everything.
Because you know, if I'm kindof drawing some conclusions of
Satan's power and what he has,what he is able to do, god
(18:29):
allows him to do some things tofor whatever reason.
I don't know those reasonsother than for us to be able to
learn from that example to tryto not repeat the same things
that hurt others.
That's what I think.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Well, my theory kind of ties into that some.
So I know you talked aboutbeing a father yourself and
wanting to protect, you know,your kids as long as much as
possible.
So if you have a new creation,let's say your child, would you
leave your child alone with asnake or serpent?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
No no.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Who would you leave your child alone with?
Who are the people you tend toleave your child alone with?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, somebody I trust.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, family, somebody I trust.
And when you look at thehistory of Lucifer, he was like
God's right hand angel.
And so my theory, if you justthink about it again, just a
theory, so don't come write meabout me being alone but if
(19:41):
you're going to have a newcreation, you will want to
protect them.
Who better to protect them thanyour right hand man?
And so my thoughts are that,you know, perhaps, just as you
know, god left cherubips, youknow, there to protect the tree
of life once Adam and Eve gotexiled.
(20:02):
Maybe Lucifer was there to lookover Adam and Eve and, you know,
protect them, be theirprotector.
You know, whenever you know,god was, you know, doing,
building, creating other things.
He sent his right hand personto take care of Adam and Eve.
But instead, you know, luciferhad other ideas.
(20:24):
And what jumped out to me wasthat that verse 26 that we read
that said you know, god, let usmake man and he made man of the
image like us.
Let him rule over all the fishof the sea, over the birds to
the air, over the cattle, overall the earth and every living
thing which was flat on theearth.
And what did Lucifer want morethan anything?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Control.
Is that what?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Exactly so.
If you're wanting this, you'reyou're considered God's right
hand man.
You're wanting power, you'rewanting control and all of a
sudden, you're watching and hemakes a new creation in his
image and he gives them all thepower and all the control.
How's that going to make youfeel?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Jealous.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah Right, I know there's not a to me there's no
pinpoint time on when the wholeLucifer young falls from heaven
piece Even when you read it, butI believe it's I don't know if
it's King that kind of talksabout.
You know him being in thegarden and that's just my theory
.
I think he was there initiallyto be a protector of Adam and
(21:37):
Eve and he allowed his jealousyfor them being given control of
the earth instead of himself tocause them, to cause him to
basically have them turn on God,which in turn gave him that
power of the earth that he waslonging for the whole time.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I love thinking outside the box, I love that
kind of stuff.
And up here you're going to bethe first one to admit it,
because I'll admit it, I'lladmit it right now we don't have
book chapter and verse for that.
You don't have book chapter andverse for that.
You're looking at the situationand kind of trying to connect
the dots a little bit and do it.
I think that's cool.
I love to think like that, Ilove to think outside of the box
.
But but please, guys, we, wearen't saying this is what
(22:18):
happened, we are speculating alittle bit here, pierre,
speculated I first time I everheard it.
I love that kind of thoughtbecause I like to have an open
mind, open dialogue, to be ableto think about these things,
because I think we need thatkind of stuff to be able to just
put it together.
But we can't go.
This is book chapter verse.
We can't turn to Genesis,whatever, just to put that
together.
(22:38):
But man, that's, that's a goodtheory, pierre.
I like that theory.
See, I thought you were justgoing to say when he made us,
when he made man in our likeness, separating them from the beast
of the field and from the fishof the air, a fish, fish in the
water and the sea, and then thewell birds in the air.
I thought you were just goingto talk about soul.
I thought that he gave him asoul that that's going to last
eternally, that, like God wasbecause we don't see never, ever
(23:01):
, any animals kind of gettingthat spirit or that soul or
anything.
I think that's that's where youwere going with that, but I was
wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
You are, you are.
And I mean again, that's justsomething that's kept me up,
personally, like thinking likewhy would, why would that
serpent even be there?
Like what, what is the intentof the creator of the universe
putting evil right there withhis, his new creation that he
loves?
And I got to thinking like whatwould I do with my daughter?
Like when I put her, you know,just out with evil, you know
(23:31):
knowingly knowing there was evil.
And I was like no, I would.
I would put her with someone Itrust.
And you know, as we've seenthroughout you know history with
different people, there'speople that you trust, that you
know turn their back on you ordo something evil.
And that just added up to me ona possibility that could have
taken place.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
He's not lying, he really this really has kept him
awake a lot Like.
I'll know this because we'vetalked about it a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
But then you think about that too, michelle, about
what Pierre is talking about.
I would explain why.
God, not only.
You know he punished Satanright off the bat.
You know he made a mistake,right.
Just just, bam just made himinto something that's going to
crawl around on his belly forthe rest of his days, right?
And then he went to the woman,then he went to the man to
punish all those in that order.
But you know, just justthinking about how he punished
(24:19):
them all, this would kind of goto man.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
You turned your back on me, so I'm a dirty little
snake, you know right and again,you read different pieces of
the Bible about Satan's fall,but it doesn't pinpoint exactly
when that took place, and sothat's just again.
Thoughts Losing sleep.
That's, that's part of.
I've lost sleep on that plentyof time.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
No, I get it.
Hey, let's fast forward.
Well, I guess we're hittingrewind now because we are at the
end of chapter three a littlebit.
We might cover up a little,cover a little bit more there.
But if we go to maybe the end ofchapter two where it talks
about maybe verse 20, man gavenames to all the cattle, all the
birds, the sky and every beastof the field, but for Adam there
was not found a helper suitablefor him.
(25:02):
So the Lord God caused a deepsleep to fall upon Adam and he
slept and he took one of theribs and closed up the flesh in
that place.
And the Lord God fashioned awoman out of the rib which he
had taken from the man andbrought her to the man.
And the man said this is nowbone on my bones, flesh on my
flesh.
We shall be, as she shall be,called, woman because she was
taken out of man.
And for this cause a man shallleave his father and mother,
shall cleave to his wife andthey shall become one flesh.
(25:24):
And the man and his wife wereboth naked and their jots and
tiddles were not covered andthey were not ashamed.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
That's right.
So another question that popsup here.
So you have that at the end ofGenesis too, right?
So who are the man and thewoman in the image in Genesis
one 26, or I guess it wasn't 26,it was what?
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, yeah, why did they say that one thing in
Genesis one and Genesis two?
Best I understand, it's justlike a little deeper dive into
what happened in Genesis one.
You know what I mean?
Like they're just kind ofbacktracking a little bit and
explaining it a little bitfurther of where women came from
and everything.
I think that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I'm curious I know Michelle gets caught up like are
there more than one?
You know, more than just Adamand Eve?
Clearly at some point there hadto be more humans around, just
based off the story.
Again, I'm not going to jumpahead again, but move for
thought on it being mentionedtwice there Now and I do think
that too.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I think that we might as well talk about that now as
well.
I believe there's more thanjust what we're told about this.
I've always been told, and itmakes a lot of sense, that we're
really just trying to findJesus is lineage in all of this.
Right, it's the crimson threadwoven through the silver pages
of the Bible.
Is what really is being donehere?
(26:54):
Throughout the entire Bible weget to see Jesus' story laid out
for us as we turn over fromGenesis, chapter one, all the
way to the end in the book ofRevelations.
So we get to see that Justbecause we don't get told
everything doesn't mean itdiscredits the Bible.
God's telling us what he wantsus to know for a specific reason
(27:17):
.
Right, if you buy an Englishdictionary, it tells you all the
English words, but it doesn'ttell you all the Spanish words,
and we know there's a Spanishlanguage out there, a French
language out there.
Just because we don't have thatall included in Webster's
dictionary doesn't mean thatthere aren't other words or
languages out there.
And just because we're not toldeverything, maybe from the
(27:37):
Bible and we have some questionsabout things, it doesn't
invalidate what is alreadywritten in there for us to know.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
That's true and that's an excellent point, Wes,
and I needed you here to tell methat when Pierre and I were
discussing this, because I wasall upset, I'm like I don't even
understand.
But that's an excellent pointin perspective because for me,
like sometimes I get bogged downin the details and I want to
understand it all and why isn'tthis here?
But if you think about it, Imean that's life right.
(28:08):
If we're telling somebody astory, like my friends and
family will tell you.
I probably tell too manydetails, but we do leave things
out, but it doesn't mean theydidn't happen.
So it's an excellentperspective, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Wes, hey, you're welcome, that's what I'm here
for.
But also, so let's say, godcreated Jesus' lineage.
Right here Starts Adam and Eve,right, bam, right there, jesus'
lineage.
And we started another lineagesomewhere else and we're just
not told about that, because theredemption of man comes through
Jesus' lineage and that's theimportant one, right?
(28:45):
So that's what he's going toconcentrate on and that's what
he's going to tell us about andthat's where we get going in all
the creation kind of details.
That doesn't mean he createdthings any differently than
anything else, and maybe Adamand Eve were the very first
people.
So it's not out of contextnecessarily in all those things.
But I just I wonder that toosometimes, like hold on a second
(29:07):
, Everybody came from Adam andEve.
Hold on a second, everybodycame from Noah.
Hold on a second here.
Right, you know and you startthinking yeah, wait a minute,
who did Adam and Eve's sonsmarry their sisters?
You know.
So there's a lot of things thatgo on there and we get to
Genesis, chapter six.
We're going to really open up abig can of worms when it comes
to all that stuff, but you knowso.
(29:29):
So, yes, I think it's okay tothink outside the box.
But just remember, whenever wethink outside the box and we try
to find these answers to things, that's always remember our
thoughts are not book chapterverse.
It's fun to think about, it'sfun to speculate on.
From my opinion, in my opinionit is.
But let's not take them as thebe all and end all, because
(29:52):
they're not book chapter verse.
And maybe, if I ever write abook, maybe I can put chapters
of verses in there so I can havea less chapter six, verse three
.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, less chapter one in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Less chapter two.
You're Dianne.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, I don't have a lot to say, all right, so, no,
no, no, you're good, and I lovewhat Adam said, whatever he's.
You know the name that he gaveto his wife, because it was
probably the first things hethought of too.
He went whoa man, you know.
That's why he called her woman,right?
He was looking at her and hewent whoa man.
That's a old joke.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I guess I heard it in a time or two, but yeah, it
adds up.
It ties in Definitely someexcitement, I'm sure from Adam
there.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
You think, did you guys have those verses read at
your wedding?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Which ones.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
The bone of my bones, flesh, my flesh.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
I can't remember.
It's usually like a standard.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
You don't remember, you weren't there, it's been a
while.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
We're actually coming up with anniversary next month
though.
Yeah, it's been a while.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Dude, I'm coming up.
My wife is let it slip.
She's not one to tell me whenour anniversary is or how many
years we've been married.
She expects me to know and Iwill not know.
You guys know me well enoughnow.
My memory just is not therewhen it comes to I don't pay
attention to time, so it'sreally a difficult whenever it
comes to my anniversary.
I'm about to be married for 30years next year.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Next year.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Congratulations.
I give her all the credit.
I give her all the credit, notme.
I said was that like a silveranniversary, a gold anniversary?
She said it better be some kindof anniversary.
The look she had on her face,no pressure.
She said it's like a Hawaiianniversary.
First thing I thought of Pierrewas ooh, juan Sines lives in
(31:51):
Hawaii.
I can go there and visit Juan's.
On one side, women have thatlook, though, man.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I know Michelle has her own, where she looks a
certain way.
I know I've done it.
I've went too far across theline Her little ears can go back
.
Sometimes I'm like, uh-oh, Icrossed the line, I put my foot
a little too far away, so youbetter pay attention to that one
.
If you've got a certain lookfor the 30 years, you better
make it special.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah, I thought my brain has been going now for a
little bit.
It's been keeping me up atnight.
Hey, we I read that verse area,right, there was read at my
wedding and it was a guy who weknew and he was a father of mine
and the Lord, so to speak, hadus over to the house for Bible
studies, a whole bunch of usover.
Just somebody who I've beenvery grateful for in my life and
(32:38):
he had a real deep voice likethis.
I mean just a really deep voice, and I can still hear.
Whenever I, whenever I readthat part there this is now bone
to my bones and flesh to myflesh I was like, oh man, I was,
I was at the read, listen tothem, read them Anyway.
Uh, all right, so we had theserpent.
You guys, do we want to revisitGenesis 3 or do we kind of
(33:00):
cover that?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I mean I think it's still important.
I think another question youcould ask is so why even?
Why even have the option of atree that could set off evil,
like that, I guess, or theknowledge of it, like why was
that tree even there?
I know you can tie it into thekind of the free will so you can
(33:22):
go and even sending your kidsoff into the world, you can make
them aware of both good and badand hope they always choose
good.
But those are just one of thosethoughts Like if you knew that
what the downfall of mankindcould be.
What's that tree?
Why would it?
Why even be there?
Why would it even be created?
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Well, I think.
I mean, I'm just speculating,but I'd, like you said, because
we have to have our, we have tobe able to make our own
decisions.
And so if, if everything wasjust good all the time, quite
honestly, like it wouldn't haveset up the whole premise for
Jesus because he didn't come andjust like live it up and have a
(34:08):
great time, Like he came andwas tested and went through
trials.
And so, if we expect that ourlife, like if, if all of that
was never there, we wouldn'thave perspectives and we
wouldn't have a need for thispodcast, that's for sure.
But like every, if everythingwas just always good, we
(34:29):
wouldn't know what good wasright.
Like you, you have to have thegood and the bad to really
appreciate the good when itcomes around and to understand
that when the trials of life hitthat we're not, we can't expect
that just because we'reChristians that everything's
(34:49):
going to be good all the time.
Like Jesus didn't have that,why would we think we would?
So I think it's.
It gives us an opportunity tolearn and to appreciate and to
see things differently and, likebe thankful.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, I think so.
I think it also shines a lighton just who we are, because we
still make those bad decisions.
Like how many times are we wejust in a in a world of
contentment, like everythingaround us going well, we know
right from wrong and we wantmore, to the point where we
(35:24):
ended up choosing wrong at somepoint.
Like you see that throughouthistory, where you could have a
really good life, you could haveall you want, but there's that
urge or need for something moreand you go and you try or test
things and poof, you know bitconsequence.
And I know they talk about like,let's say, gateway drugs for
(35:45):
example.
You look at those situationswhere you don't need drugs to
survive but folks look for youknow all these new thrills and
you know they want somethingmore, some more type of an
adrenaline.
You know that they cross theline and try some things that
are not good for you and theyknow that these things aren't
(36:05):
good, but they still do it andunfortunately, those
consequences end up taking theirtoll when those decisions are
made.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Our pastor one of our pastors just did a sermon about
like one of the things that hetalked about was holding on to
things too tightly and likeasked about what you're holding
on to too tightly and for methat's certainly my child, as
what I'm sure it is for a lot ofpeople but the point that he
(36:36):
brought up was, if you'reholding on so tight, like you're
not allowing them to fail andto fall and isn't that where we
learn a lot of our lessons,where we turn to Jesus, where we
learned to go to him and totrust him and to follow him, and
(37:00):
so if you're not allowing yourkids to get into those
situations and to fail sometimes, then maybe they're not
learning the lessons like theyneed to.
And so maybe that was the samekind of thing for God like I'm
not going to hold on too tightly, I'm going to allow them to
fall, and then they'll learnthat they need to come to me.
(37:23):
It's kind of like a baby whenthey're learning to walk.
If you hold on to them all thetime, they're not going to learn
to walk as well as they wouldif you let go and they fall and
they learn how to balancethemselves.
So maybe it's a balance thing.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, I'm going back to trying to put myself in God's
spot, right, and just trying tosay, okay, he's the father, I'm
a father, so we have that kindof common, and that's about
where it ends, I think, as wellbut, you know how disappointing
is it whenever your child doessomething wrong, how
(38:00):
disappointing it could bring youto tears, and you hate it for
them.
Whenever they do something wrong, because you just know that it
can inflict pain, you hope thepatterns aren't starting.
There's so many things therethat go through your mind and
the fear of the things that keepyou up at night.
Sometimes it's just for mychildren and I want them to make
(38:21):
the right choices, but then howhappy and elated are you when
they do make a right choice andyou can clearly see like that
they are overjoyed that theymade the right choice too, but
not because it made you happy.
They just saw the benefits frommaking the right choice.
Maybe that made somebody elsehappy.
Maybe they saw the side effectsof making the right choice and
(38:44):
how it affected other people.
It's cool to be able to see that, and so there's a relation
there too.
So I wonder too with God, is hepleased?
I go back to when Jesus wasbaptized and when he went under
the water he came up and thespirit ascended down to him like
a dove, and then the heavensopened up and they heard a voice
said that this is my belovedson, in whom I am well pleased,
(39:10):
guys.
You know, I can only imaginewhat it's going to be like to be
able to hear that maybe one dayI lost my father whenever I was
really young and, I'll behonest with you, there haven't
been a lot of times that a manhas said to me that they were
pleased with me because theyhaven't had men in my life to be
(39:30):
able to say that, plus becauseI was a screwball.
So I didn't give a lot of guysa lot of opportunities to say
that I made a lot of wrongchoices.
But I can imagine just howpleasing that will be one day,
and so I wonder if that isn't apart of why that tree of
knowledge of good and evil wasthere, so that people can make
the choices of good and peoplecan make the choices of evil
(39:54):
goes back to that free will, towhere we aren't robots, we
aren't pre-programmed to do onlyone thing and one thing only.
We do have choices and thosechoices and decisions, like we
talked about before, are up tous, and then that final judgment
day will come when we have togive account for those choices
and, to be honest with you, thatseems more fair to me than just
(40:19):
me not having any choiceswhatsoever.
Right, I mean it does.
It feels more fair, it feelslike I have liberties.
Then, whenever I have theopportunity to do good or I have
the opportunity to do evil, itfeels fair, it feels right, it
feels just.
And that's what God is too.
(40:40):
He's a just God.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Well, if you were like Pia and I, I'm sure you are
too West.
We're competitive by nature.
So if you are in a tournamentand you're just handed a prize
versus having to work for itlike, aren't you more elated
when you have to work forsomething and achieve something?
So you know, maybe God'sallowing us to have those
(41:07):
perspectives and understandings,and I don't know.
I just think it makes life moreinteresting.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Do you guys think that, like giving all the kids
trophies for finishing like insecond place, third place,
fourth place, everybody gets atrophy?
No, you think, should everybodyget a trophy in life?
Or should that be reservedmaybe for the first place person
, the first place team, to getthe largest trophy and then to
give me a little medals or someparticipation awards to the
other kids or something likethat?
That's fine, but to me, yes,the winners, the achievers, need
(41:38):
to be elevated a little bitmore to allow other people to
have to maybe work a little bitharder to strive for something
greater, to be, you know, happyfor other people.
Instead of just having thatplaying field be one level
playing ground, why even have atournament if everybody's going
to win?
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Right and what's the motivation and drive either,
Like the whole point of beingfirst or being a champion is to
really push yourself and pushyourself to the limits and try
to achieve something, be it asan individual or as a team.
I think that's kind of takenaway if everyone's achieving it,
regardless of the effort and,you know, regardless of the
(42:17):
training and the practice andall the things that they put
into it.
And I know we're, all you know,sports fans.
You can imagine, like all thesethese guys putting their bodies
on the line and football.
You know there's no Super Bowltrophy.
Everyone just kind of gets atrophy at the end.
You've gone through all theseinjuries.
You know what?
18 weeks now, plus some, andeveryone just gets a trophy at
(42:39):
the end.
Thanks for thanks for playing.
No, you're, you're, you'refighting and you're pushing in
order to get that big reward.
And again, that's what we're,we're doing on earth.
You know we, we have the, thegame plan laid out in the word
and you know we're we'refighting and we're battling and
we're we're doing all this good.
And you know, trying to livebetter lives.
(43:00):
You know, honestly, before,over the world and I don't even
talk about it like if, if heavenwasn't real, like I still feel,
like I've lived a better life,a more purposeful life,
believing that it is, and I dobelieve that it is, but even
without it, like my lifepersonally has been better
because I've been moreintentional about the way I live
(43:23):
, with those type of promises.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yeah, and they certainly don't give everybody
in the Olympics the medal Likethat still doesn't happen either
.
So they brought something there.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Maybe, so, maybe so.
Hey, we talked about Genesisthree in one of the past
episodes.
I'm not sure what episode itwas, but you can go back there
and listen to some of that toget a little bit more in depth
detail on what we thought aboutGenesis three and the Garden of
Eden and and Satan and the treeof knowledge of good and evil.
But I'm going to fast forwardhere to the end of chapter three
(43:54):
just so we can wrap this up.
First, one, two the Lord Godsaid behold, the man has become
like one of us, knowing good andevil.
And now let us, let he, let'she, stretch out his hand and
take also from the tree of lifeand eat and live forever.
Therefore the Lord God sent himout of the Garden of Eden to
cultivate the ground from whichhe was taken.
So he drove man out.
At the east of the Garden ofEden he stationed a cherubim and
(44:16):
a flaming sword which turnedevery direction to guard the way
to the tree of life.
That kind of wrapped up theGarden of Eden story.
Next week is Cain and Abel, orat least Genesis.
Chapter four is Cain and Abel,and we'll talk about that at
some point here.
I know you talked aboutbouncing around from the Old
Testament to the New Testamentjust to talk about things.
And I would love to go overinto Matthew or any of those
(44:38):
books just to, kind of, you know, change it up a little bit and
get a different perspective eachweek.
And I know Matthew, chapter oneis all about a genealogy and
that could be really, you know,kind of like okay, how are you
going to make a podcast out ofgenealogy?
I got one, cause I got one.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Oh, I got one.
What?
Speaker 3 (44:56):
I'm in solo.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I think.
I think it's a good one,because genealogies can be
intimidating.
I would love to be able toshare that with everybody,
though, if we can do that.
I know you're the executiveproducer.
I'm just putting the pressureon you not to be able to say no
in front of the thousands oflisteners we have, or whatever.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah, we could.
We could definitely dive intoMatthew, and I will also tell
you and the listeners toremember that Genesis three 24.
I have another theory in thefuture when it comes to that one
as well.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Well.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
I can.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
I like it a lot.
Hey, good job by you guys.
It's good to be able to take amoment just to be able to sit
down and be quiet and study theBible and to meditate on these
things and to talk about it witha couple of good friends and I
feel like you guys are that,even though you're some 500
miles away from where I am now.
But it's cool that we're ableto have that opportunity to be
able to sit down and talk andshare our thoughts, not only
(45:51):
with each other, but with allthe listeners too, and we really
do appreciate all of youlisteners as well.
Thank you so much for ratingthe program.
It touches a heart.
Pierre sent me a couple of thosedifferent, different reviews
and I was like, oh, we gotreviews, man.
And he said, well, there'sothers too Besides that.
I said, really, there's otherand that's just cool to be able
(46:11):
to do so.
You've, you've.
You cheer us up whenever you dothat and we appreciate the
criticism.
And look if you know somethingbetter than we do.
If you have your own theory,we've gone whack a doodle on the
show.
Okay, we have you.
Just say I don't want you tostay up late at night thinking
about this and thinking thatyou're the only one, and so I
love that the format is able,pierre and Michelle, to be able
(46:32):
to, you know, just share ourthoughts and to not be judged
for them, you know yep, I agree,that's the point was.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
We appreciate you.
I know you always thank us andthank the listeners.
You know we're we're trioourselves, not a holy Trinity,
but we're still pretty good trio.
So we thank you for comingalong and kind of leading the
ship as our, as our co-host hereand just give you, give you
your, your thanks as well forfor being willing and being open
(46:59):
yourself, even amongst ourdifferences.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Absolutely no worries .
I am glad to do it and, asalways you listeners out there,
you can get in touch with Pierreat Pee Wee 31 and get in touch
with Michelle at go pack, go 411, over on Twitter, and you can
also reach me on Twitter as well.
At loafing it on Twitter, don'tforget to leave a review.
We're even on Facebook righthere.
Tell them all those places thatwe are.
You know better than I do.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
So we're not on Facebook.
I'm one there personally, andso I've had some outreaches of
folks that have found me onFacebook.
But we are on Twitter atfinding faith pod.
We also have an email that'sopen for for all who want to
chime in and reach out.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
That's a findingfafelosingsleep at
gmailcom and, as always, we wantto encourage you to pray for us
and we will pray for you.
It's time to wake up and pray up here on the Finding
Faith and Losing Sleep podcast,episode 17.
In the beginning Again, I thinknumber two, I don't know we're
doing A and B, maybe C, I don'tknow.
It takes a little while to dothe beginning of the creation of
the world.
I mean, god did it in six days.
We might have to take sixpodcasts to do this, pierre.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
You might.
I mean, and I didn't use thattitle, so it's even funnier that
you're still in the beginning.
Either way, yeah, we're notgoing to rush, you know, through
Genesis, the first book, andit's an important book.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
And you didn't scare me this time, wes, so that's
good.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
How did I scare you last time?
I don't remember In thebeginning.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I knew you always do it, but for some reason last
time it just startled me Becausewe had like a little silence
before we actually jump in and Ithink just the moment that you
jump and then start over.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I think the beginning of the podcast.
You know the moment of silencebeforehand.
I use that as my meditationtime.
You know what I mean.
Like you know that eight or 10seconds I meditate like really
hard right, really hard, rightoff the bat, and that way I get
my mind and my stability for thepodcast right there.
I'm nice and centered for it.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I don't, I just, I just wait.
I just wait for the intro, andready to roll some pretty quick
centering.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Well, yeah, listen, I just make stuff up as I go, I
don't know.
Hey, that's Michelle who justgot done talking the female
voice on this podcast.
You can find her on Twitter atgo pack go.
The other male voice, the onethat has the golden tones on the
other end of this microphone, Iguess it is.
It is her husband, his name isPierre, at Pee Wee 31 over on
(01:41):
Twitter.
He is also the executiveproducer of this podcast, so any
kind of complaints about theproducing of the show, it goes
directly to him.
Any kind of compliments goesdirectly to me.
I am West, easily at low for itover on Twitter.
If you find the show a littlebit amusing, a little bit fun,
maybe that is my responsibility.
I don't know what I bring tothe podcast Y'all.
We just all bring it reallynice and hard because we are
just some average, normal,everyday people trying to work
(02:04):
out life a little bit.
That's why we call it thefinding faith, losing sleep
podcast, because these aretopics that keep people up late
at night, because they're tryingto figure it out, and we are
just trying to address differenttopics, to just talk about them
from three differentperspectives, from three
different angles, and we hope todo it in a way that is pleasing
to the ears.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
That's it.
We just kind of share our ownperspective and just kind of
talk through some tough topicsand some not so tough topics and
glad that we have listeners andjust speaking of, we had a Paul
Bruce 45, reach out with a nicereview.
Subject line solid.
You said solid, which I alwaysenjoy, a good solid.
(02:43):
I love this podcast and thepeople who host it.
They have taught me so much andencouraged me to think through
hard stuff in just a little timeinto the podcast.
Your genuine friendship andbanter while a start contrast
sometimes the serious topicsyou're talking about at a level
authenticity that I enjoy.
Keep doing what you're doing.
(03:04):
So, Paul, thank you for that.
We're going to keep doing whatwe're doing.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, no, yeah, thank you, Paul.
I appreciate that, and we askyou to leave a review.
We love to hear from you.
We always ask you at the end ofthe podcast.
If you pray for us, we'll prayfor you.
We kind of say that a littlebit at the end of the podcast
and we do mean that.
I sincerely do.
I pray for the listeners.
I pray for the listeners.
I pray for the talkers too aswell, pierre and Michelle, but I
hope the message gets out therethat we can talk about these
(03:30):
things that are controversial.
And look, the last episode thatwe had, we were talked about
Genesis, chapter one, and theirown kind and stuff.
I don't know that wenecessarily agreed with each
other on those things, but wesaid a lot of things that needed
to be said and, I think, a lotof things that need to be talked
about and a lot of things thatneed to be heard.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, and isn't that kind of the purpose of this?
We don't all agree in generalas a society, so I think it's
important for us to know thatyou can agree to disagree and
still be friends and still careabout people, and it doesn't
have to be hey, shame on youbecause you don't agree with me
on this.
Everybody's going to have toatone for themselves in the end.
(04:11):
It's not going to be a grouphearing, so I think what's
important, though, is that wereally just do our best to try
to understand where people arecoming from, and maybe are and
see things a different waysometimes.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So you know, what I love about the Bible is that it
is talked about in the book ofHebrews that the Bible is living
in, active and sharp with anytwo-edged sword able to pierce
bone and mirror all the way tothe heart.
And so it is living and active.
And we just talked aboutGenesis, chapter one.
Last week, pierre and we got totalking about different things
that were going on in societytoday, and I don't want to say
that.
You can take context, you couldtwist it up a little bit and
(04:51):
you can make it say whatever youwant it to say, to say whatever
you want to say about what'sgoing on in the world today.
But I think it actually wasapplicable and this is a book
and especially Genesis,thousands of years ago, 5,000,
6,000 years ago.
However, you want to debate allthat.
It was written such a long timeago, but it is still applicable
today which talks about thelongevity of the Bible, but also
(05:12):
the longevity of God's Word.
People say it gets old.
People say you know that's anold book.
It doesn't apply to me.
You know that kind of stuff.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Maybe you're in denial, maybeyou haven't read it a lot, maybe
you haven't had an open heartor an open brain whenever you've
read it, but it is somethingthat I think it's very
applicable to today, just as itwas yesterday, pierre.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I agree.
I think that's part of thereason why we kind of talk
through you know some of thesesubjects and try to relate it to
today.
We don't know the context andyou can read other books, you
can read historical books, youcan watch films, movies,
whatever you want to do to tryto get an idea of the context of
(05:53):
the world.
You know back then, but even so, like it's living and breathing
into today's society and that'swhat we're talking through.
And I know, like you said, ourlast episode was some touchy
topics but in all honesty,looking at the first seven days
of each episode we put out, thelast one's probably been the
most popular one that we've hadQuite a few listens and
(06:16):
downloads, which you know Ithink just kind of brings up the
point that these are sometopics that folks are thinking
about and wanting to hearopinions on and it's good to
talk through with it and thenstill come back, you know, a
week later and we're stillfriends and we're still
conversing and talking about newsubjects.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So we're not canceled on anything.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Ah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Well, give us time.
Give us time.
No, no, no, hey, but go backand listen to all those
different podcasts.
I think they're all organic,they all have staying power.
There wasn't anything that wasnecessarily socially relevant at
the time, because I think allthese topics continue to go on
in society right now, and whatthey were doing at that time as
well.
So you can go back, you canlisten to those.
(06:55):
But we do appreciate thecomments, the likes, the stars,
all those things, not for us,but just for the program to be
able to get out there into moreyears, to be able to hopefully
edify other people.
We aren't making a dollar, wearen't making a jot or a tittle.
No, I think jot and tittle islike where you dot your eyes
across your t's.
What would it be?
A denera?
Is that a biblical?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I don't know.
I got worried when you startedsaying the other one.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
You said tittle.
You don't say tittle, I'm justsaying tittle His face.
He said tittle.
Jesus said that we're callingjot and tittle.
Jesus said that jot and tittle,and now you got me giggling
about it.
It's just crossing your eyes,and crossing your t's is
basically what that means.
But we're not getting any money, we're not getting any denera
(07:42):
or anything like that fromanything.
So this is all for us, it's foryou, it's for us to be able to
talk about this stuff.
It's a little Bible study thatPierre, michelle and I do and we
just have made it public toeverybody Speaking about Bible
studies.
We were in Genesis, chapter one,last week and we kind of left
off there where God made plantsand he said to go ahead after
their own kind and to multiplyon earth and just start filling
(08:05):
up the earth.
He does the same thing there,as he goes on not only with
plants but with animals as well.
Then he made the two greatlights, pierre and Michelle.
He made the two great lightslike they're in verse 15.
We're just going to zoomthrough this part a little bit,
where he made the sun and themoon and the lesser to separate
them.
Then God saw it was all goodand he made the lesser one to
(08:26):
govern the night and the greaterone to govern the days.
We see the sun and moon get putthere.
Then God said the water isstreaming with new living
creatures and let birds flyabove the earth.
God created sea monsters andevery living creature that moves
sea monsters.
Loch Ness monster right there.
Is that what he's talking about, loch Ness monster?
You reckon?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I think it's a little everything.
Well, sharks, they're alltechnically your sea type
monsters, octopus.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
No, I'm serious, they are weird.
You ever go down.
You ever see that stuff thatgoes way down there under the
sea.
We could explore in the sea along time ago, really down deep.
They stopped doing some ofthose things where there was
super deep sea explorationbecause it was dangerous.
They decided to go the otherway, go up to the moon.
I think it's what they did.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
You saw the Titanic thing that happened.
The other tragedy they tried,and more tragically, Well, what
is it?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
The Mariana trench?
I just saw something I think itwas the Mariana trench last
night about some of thecreatures in the deep that are
just only there, really, that wedon't even know about that
stuff's crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Like an octopus is just a crazy looking thing.
The way it can shrink down andgo through a tube and you look
at it.
It's really big, it's got theeight arms.
It takes up a bunch of spaceuntil it doesn't want to.
Then it gets real skinny andjust goes through a little bit
of old tube and you're likewhere the world is.
That thing made out of Crazy.
I wish I could get.
I need that in my waistlinejust so I can get my belt and
(09:52):
pants on a little bit bettersometimes Get my pants on
Tiddles and waistlines.
Is that the title of this show?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
AI, the person that you put in charge of title in
the show.
Pierre might call it Tiddlesand waistlines.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
It'll show up in the tag notes.
I'm sure it's the amount oftime you said it at this point.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
I did it on purpose that last time God made the
beasts of the earth as well tomultiply after their kind.
He made the cattle after theirkind, and everything that creeps
on the ground and everycreeping thing, and he saw that
it was good.
Then, in verse 26, is where itgets a little bit saucy again.
Then God said let us make manin our own image, according to
(10:38):
our likeness, and let them ruleover the fish of the sea, the
birds of the air, and over thecattle and over all the earth
and over every creeping thingthat creeps on the earth.
God created man in his ownimage, in the image of God.
He created him Male and female.
He created them.
You notice there in verse 26, wetalked about what Genesis 1.3,
I think, where we saw where Godwas there, and when I talked
(11:01):
about it being the word Elohim,which is a plurality word back
in the Hebrew, it kind of meansthat there was more than one
thing there.
Then you see God in verse 26.
He said let us make man in ourimage, right, and so we're just
assuming I guess that maybethat's how we've been taught a
little bit that that's theFather, the Son and the Holy
(11:22):
Spirit, right, guys?
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, that's how I take it.
I find it even interesting thenext part with the, and let him
have rule over the fish, the sea, the birds, the air, the cattle
and all things basically on theearth, which I'll dive into a
theory here a little bit on whyI find that part to be unique.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
You're going to leave us all right.
Well, fine, leave us hanginglike that, I'll look forward to
it.
I like a little mystery and thereason why we say we saw the
Spirit in Genesis, chapter oneor earlier, and then we talk
about the Father, the Creatorand all those that kind of
person, but also we talk aboutJesus being there too, the word,
because over in John, chapterone, verse one, it says in the
beginning was the word and theword was with God and the word
(12:07):
was God.
He was in the beginning withGod and all things came into
being by him and apart from him,nothing came into being that
has come into being.
So we put that.
You know, he helped createeverything with the word and we
see Jesus being referred to asthe word many times throughout
the scripture, but definitely byJohn towards the end of that
apostolic era I guess towardsthe end of the hundred years
(12:29):
there after Jesus was born, thathe gave credit to Jesus being
all the way there at thebeginning.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Well, you have to think, like John, who called
himself the one that Jesus loved, would have just kind of
witnessed so much, and so yousee a lot of the I Ams as well
throughout the Bible.
I think part of that goes intothe whole the word and the word
being Jesus itself.
(12:56):
And John just kind of had adifferent perspective with that.
Again, going back in thecontext of what he would have
witnessed.
I thought it was a reallyunique way of him to start off.
You know that gospel.
You know a little differentlythan some of the others.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, and there was definitely.
It feels like there was intentto go all the way back to the
beginning of Genesis.
You know he knew what Genesissaid, so I think at that time he
wanted to give credit andattribution to Jesus being back
there at the same time too, tohelp people understand it a
little bit, I may be readinginto it a little bit much there,
but I don't think so.
So yeah, anyway now.
So go ahead.
(13:32):
Go ahead with your theory,pierre.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So I won't go into just yet.
So you talk about, you know,being made in their image.
So when you think about, forexample and this is a question
I'll toss at both of you whenyou think about anger, is that,
that raft and anger, a part ofGod's image?
That we have ourselves and ourown anger and emotions?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
I'll say yes, I think so, I think so.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Okay, so we've seen it throughout.
But you talk about his creationand I'll kind of dive in and
I'll say that this kind of goesinto chapter two some.
Because on the seventh day, youknow, god came to the end of
his work and he took a rest andat that point with me I feel
(14:24):
like that's just that one momentin time where we're doing what
we expect to do in heaven andthat's just living with God in
peace, where he's just hedoesn't have to work anymore,
it's all good.
So he takes his rest.
But shortly after that, youknow, obviously a creature is
going to come into the mix.
(14:45):
You know what creature I'mreferring to.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
The woman, the serpent.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I'm referring to the serpent.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Don't you dare say that's the same one.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
The woman, and so my thoughts here and again.
This is just one of my theories.
So God created man and woman.
So we have this feeling ofGod's all knowing, and I know
one of the questions that comesup is if he was all knowing, why
(15:16):
would the serpent be in thegarden?
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
with and why you throw it to me first.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Because you always throw it to us, and now it's my
turn to pay you back.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
All right.
So what was the question again,why was?
Why did the serpent end upthere?
Okay, we haven't gone that faryet, but I'm fine with jumping
ahead to that a little bit,because I started trying to put
myself in God's place.
Okay, don't get that, don'ttwist my words whenever I say
that, but I'm just saying from afatherly standpoint.
I'm trying to understand him alittle bit more and as a father
(15:50):
myself, I'm like okay, what am Idoing here?
What am I trying to?
I question all of my motives asa father, sometimes like, okay,
am I doing this right, am Idoing this wrong or whatever you
know?
But what is my purpose?
What is my goal?
And I know I've said before toyou guys that one of my goals as
a dad is to protect mychildren's innocence for as long
as possible.
Right, so I want to try to makemy home a safe place for them.
(16:13):
I'm trying to make my home aplace where they can live
without being afraid.
No, fear, no, anything.
Right, so it's a safe haven.
And so I'm trying to do that.
And I thought about that.
I went huh, maybe that's whatGod was trying to do with the
Garden of Eden.
Right, it's the safe place.
(16:33):
It's the place where nothingcan hurt you, nothing can harm
you, and but, at the same time,no matter how hard you try, now
look, god can do all thingsRight.
God can do all things and heallows things to happen as well.
And no matter how hard I try,there's still things that
infiltrate my protective areathat I try for my children.
(16:56):
There are still things that aregoing to come in there and
going to harm them, that aretrying to pull them away from
what I want them to do for theirown good.
And so I started thinking aboutthat a little bit.
And then we got all these little.
You know, where did Satan comefrom?
Where did the devil come from?
We got some biblical thingswhere it talks about Lucifer
(17:17):
falling from the sky, jesusseeing Satan fall from the
heavens like a star, and then weeven see Jacob's ladder, where
we got angels going up and downthis ladder from the earth to
heaven, from the earth to heaven.
And I'm sitting there thinkingabout those things.
I'm going, wow, there's a lotof stuff going on, right.
We may not be able to know ormay not be able to see.
Then, if you go back into like aMormon religion of what they
(17:40):
believe from the there was likea grand council meeting.
They think there was a grandcouncil meeting up in heaven
between all the angels andLucifer was up there and Jesus
was up there and they basicallysplit all the angels down the
middle and Satan got thoseangels and Jesus got other
angels.
It's really kind of wildwhenever you think about it.
But then you read the book ofJob and you got Satan coming to
(18:05):
and fro on earth, with him goingback and visiting God at some
point and reporting to him andGod allowing him to do things.
So maybe we don't know theentire story of what happened in
the book of Genesis and theGarden of Eden.
Maybe we're not told everything.
Because you know, if I'm kindof drawing some conclusions of
Satan's power and what he has,what he is able to do, god
(18:29):
allows him to do some things tofor whatever reason.
I don't know those reasonsother than for us to be able to
learn from that example to tryto not repeat the same things
that hurt others.
That's what I think.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Well, my theory kind of ties into that some.
So I know you talked aboutbeing a father yourself and
wanting to protect, you know,your kids as long as much as
possible.
So if you have a new creation,let's say your child, would you
leave your child alone with asnake or serpent?
Speaker 3 (19:08):
No no.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Who would you leave your child alone with?
Who are the people you tend toleave your child alone with?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, somebody I trust.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, family, somebody I trust.
And when you look at thehistory of Lucifer, he was like
God's right hand angel.
And so my theory, if you justthink about it again, just a
theory, so don't come write meabout me being alone but if
(19:41):
you're going to have a newcreation, you will want to
protect them.
Who better to protect them thanyour right hand man?
And so my thoughts are that,you know, perhaps, just as you
know, god left cherubips, youknow, there to protect the tree
of life once Adam and Eve gotexiled.
(20:02):
Maybe Lucifer was there to lookover Adam and Eve and, you know,
protect them, be theirprotector.
You know, whenever you know,god was, you know, doing,
building, creating other things.
He sent his right hand personto take care of Adam and Eve.
But instead, you know, luciferhad other ideas.
(20:24):
And what jumped out to me wasthat that verse 26 that we read
that said you know, god, let usmake man and he made man of the
image like us.
Let him rule over all the fishof the sea, over the birds to
the air, over the cattle, overall the earth and every living
thing which was flat on theearth.
And what did Lucifer want morethan anything?
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Control.
Is that what?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Exactly so.
If you're wanting this, you'reyou're considered God's right
hand man.
You're wanting power, you'rewanting control and all of a
sudden, you're watching and hemakes a new creation in his
image and he gives them all thepower and all the control.
How's that going to make youfeel?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Jealous.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah Right, I know there's not a to me there's no
pinpoint time on when the wholeLucifer young falls from heaven
piece Even when you read it, butI believe it's I don't know if
it's King that kind of talksabout.
You know him being in thegarden and that's just my theory
.
I think he was there initiallyto be a protector of Adam and
(21:37):
Eve and he allowed his jealousyfor them being given control of
the earth instead of himself tocause them, to cause him to
basically have them turn on God,which in turn gave him that
power of the earth that he waslonging for the whole time.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I love thinking outside the box, I love that
kind of stuff.
And up here you're going to bethe first one to admit it,
because I'll admit it, I'lladmit it right now we don't have
book chapter and verse for that.
You don't have book chapter andverse for that.
You're looking at the situationand kind of trying to connect
the dots a little bit and do it.
I think that's cool.
I love to think like that, Ilove to think outside of the box
.
But but please, guys, we, wearen't saying this is what
(22:18):
happened, we are speculating alittle bit here, pierre,
speculated I first time I everheard it.
I love that kind of thoughtbecause I like to have an open
mind, open dialogue, to be ableto think about these things,
because I think we need thatkind of stuff to be able to just
put it together.
But we can't go.
This is book chapter verse.
We can't turn to Genesis,whatever, just to put that
together.
(22:38):
But man, that's, that's a goodtheory, pierre.
I like that theory.
See, I thought you were justgoing to say when he made us,
when he made man in our likeness, separating them from the beast
of the field and from the fishof the air, a fish, fish in the
water and the sea, and then thewell birds in the air.
I thought you were just goingto talk about soul.
I thought that he gave him asoul that that's going to last
eternally, that, like God wasbecause we don't see never, ever
(23:01):
, any animals kind of gettingthat spirit or that soul or
anything.
I think that's that's where youwere going with that, but I was
wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
You are, you are.
And I mean again, that's justsomething that's kept me up,
personally, like thinking likewhy would, why would that
serpent even be there?
Like what, what is the intentof the creator of the universe
putting evil right there withhis, his new creation that he
loves?
And I got to thinking like whatwould I do with my daughter?
Like when I put her, you know,just out with evil, you know
(23:31):
knowingly knowing there was evil.
And I was like no, I would.
I would put her with someone Itrust.
And you know, as we've seenthroughout you know history with
different people, there'speople that you trust, that you
know turn their back on you ordo something evil.
And that just added up to me ona possibility that could have
taken place.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
He's not lying, he really this really has kept him
awake a lot Like.
I'll know this because we'vetalked about it a lot.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
But then you think about that too, michelle, about
what Pierre is talking about.
I would explain why.
God, not only.
You know he punished Satanright off the bat.
You know he made a mistake,right.
Just just, bam just made himinto something that's going to
crawl around on his belly forthe rest of his days, right?
And then he went to the woman,then he went to the man to
punish all those in that order.
But you know, just justthinking about how he punished
(24:19):
them all, this would kind of goto man.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
You turned your back on me, so I'm a dirty little
snake, you know right and again,you read different pieces of
the Bible about Satan's fall,but it doesn't pinpoint exactly
when that took place, and sothat's just again.
Thoughts Losing sleep.
That's, that's part of.
I've lost sleep on that plentyof time.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
No, I get it.
Hey, let's fast forward.
Well, I guess we're hittingrewind now because we are at the
end of chapter three a littlebit.
We might cover up a little,cover a little bit more there.
But if we go to maybe the end ofchapter two where it talks
about maybe verse 20, man gavenames to all the cattle, all the
birds, the sky and every beastof the field, but for Adam there
was not found a helper suitablefor him.
(25:02):
So the Lord God caused a deepsleep to fall upon Adam and he
slept and he took one of theribs and closed up the flesh in
that place.
And the Lord God fashioned awoman out of the rib which he
had taken from the man andbrought her to the man.
And the man said this is nowbone on my bones, flesh on my
flesh.
We shall be, as she shall be,called, woman because she was
taken out of man.
And for this cause a man shallleave his father and mother,
shall cleave to his wife andthey shall become one flesh.
(25:24):
And the man and his wife wereboth naked and their jots and
tiddles were not covered andthey were not ashamed.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
That's right.
So another question that popsup here.
So you have that at the end ofGenesis too, right?
So who are the man and thewoman in the image in Genesis
one 26, or I guess it wasn't 26,it was what?
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, yeah, why did they say that one thing in
Genesis one and Genesis two?
Best I understand, it's justlike a little deeper dive into
what happened in Genesis one.
You know what I mean?
Like they're just kind ofbacktracking a little bit and
explaining it a little bitfurther of where women came from
and everything.
I think that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I'm curious I know Michelle gets caught up like are
there more than one?
You know, more than just Adamand Eve?
Clearly at some point there hadto be more humans around, just
based off the story.
Again, I'm not going to jumpahead again, but move for
thought on it being mentionedtwice there Now and I do think
that too.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I think that we might as well talk about that now as
well.
I believe there's more thanjust what we're told about this.
I've always been told, and itmakes a lot of sense, that we're
really just trying to findJesus is lineage in all of this.
Right, it's the crimson threadwoven through the silver pages
of the Bible.
Is what really is being donehere?
(26:54):
Throughout the entire Bible weget to see Jesus' story laid out
for us as we turn over fromGenesis, chapter one, all the
way to the end in the book ofRevelations.
So we get to see that Justbecause we don't get told
everything doesn't mean itdiscredits the Bible.
God's telling us what he wantsus to know for a specific reason
(27:17):
.
Right, if you buy an Englishdictionary, it tells you all the
English words, but it doesn'ttell you all the Spanish words,
and we know there's a Spanishlanguage out there, a French
language out there.
Just because we don't have thatall included in Webster's
dictionary doesn't mean thatthere aren't other words or
languages out there.
And just because we're not toldeverything, maybe from the
(27:37):
Bible and we have some questionsabout things, it doesn't
invalidate what is alreadywritten in there for us to know.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
That's true and that's an excellent point, Wes,
and I needed you here to tell methat when Pierre and I were
discussing this, because I wasall upset, I'm like I don't even
understand.
But that's an excellent pointin perspective because for me,
like sometimes I get bogged downin the details and I want to
understand it all and why isn'tthis here?
But if you think about it, Imean that's life right.
(28:08):
If we're telling somebody astory, like my friends and
family will tell you.
I probably tell too manydetails, but we do leave things
out, but it doesn't mean theydidn't happen.
So it's an excellentperspective, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Wes, hey, you're welcome, that's what I'm here
for.
But also, so let's say, godcreated Jesus' lineage.
Right here Starts Adam and Eve,right, bam, right there, jesus'
lineage.
And we started another lineagesomewhere else and we're just
not told about that, because theredemption of man comes through
Jesus' lineage and that's theimportant one, right?
(28:45):
So that's what he's going toconcentrate on and that's what
he's going to tell us about andthat's where we get going in all
the creation kind of details.
That doesn't mean he createdthings any differently than
anything else, and maybe Adamand Eve were the very first
people.
So it's not out of contextnecessarily in all those things.
But I just I wonder that toosometimes, like hold on a second
(29:07):
, Everybody came from Adam andEve.
Hold on a second, everybodycame from Noah.
Hold on a second here.
Right, you know and you startthinking yeah, wait a minute,
who did Adam and Eve's sonsmarry their sisters?
You know.
So there's a lot of things thatgo on there and we get to
Genesis, chapter six.
We're going to really open up abig can of worms when it comes
to all that stuff, but you knowso.
(29:29):
So, yes, I think it's okay tothink outside the box.
But just remember, whenever wethink outside the box and we try
to find these answers to things, that's always remember our
thoughts are not book chapterverse.
It's fun to think about, it'sfun to speculate on.
From my opinion, in my opinionit is.
But let's not take them as thebe all and end all, because
(29:52):
they're not book chapter verse.
And maybe, if I ever write abook, maybe I can put chapters
of verses in there so I can havea less chapter six, verse three
.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, less chapter one in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Less chapter two.
You're Dianne.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, I don't have a lot to say, all right, so, no,
no, no, you're good, and I lovewhat Adam said, whatever he's.
You know the name that he gaveto his wife, because it was
probably the first things hethought of too.
He went whoa man, you know.
That's why he called her woman,right?
He was looking at her and hewent whoa man.
That's a old joke.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I guess I heard it in a time or two, but yeah, it
adds up.
It ties in Definitely someexcitement, I'm sure from Adam
there.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
You think, did you guys have those verses read at
your wedding?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Which ones.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
The bone of my bones, flesh, my flesh.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
I can't remember.
It's usually like a standard.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
You don't remember, you weren't there, it's been a
while.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
We're actually coming up with anniversary next month
though.
Yeah, it's been a while.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Dude, I'm coming up.
My wife is let it slip.
She's not one to tell me whenour anniversary is or how many
years we've been married.
She expects me to know and Iwill not know.
You guys know me well enoughnow.
My memory just is not therewhen it comes to I don't pay
attention to time, so it'sreally a difficult whenever it
comes to my anniversary.
I'm about to be married for 30years next year.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Next year.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Congratulations.
I give her all the credit.
I give her all the credit, notme.
I said was that like a silveranniversary, a gold anniversary?
She said it better be some kindof anniversary.
The look she had on her face,no pressure.
She said it's like a Hawaiianniversary.
First thing I thought of Pierrewas ooh, juan Sines lives in
(31:51):
Hawaii.
I can go there and visit Juan's.
On one side, women have thatlook, though, man.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I know Michelle has her own, where she looks a
certain way.
I know I've done it.
I've went too far across theline Her little ears can go back
.
Sometimes I'm like, uh-oh, Icrossed the line, I put my foot
a little too far away, so youbetter pay attention to that one
.
If you've got a certain lookfor the 30 years, you better
make it special.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah, I thought my brain has been going now for a
little bit.
It's been keeping me up atnight.
Hey, we I read that verse area,right, there was read at my
wedding and it was a guy who weknew and he was a father of mine
and the Lord, so to speak, hadus over to the house for Bible
studies, a whole bunch of usover.
Just somebody who I've beenvery grateful for in my life and
(32:38):
he had a real deep voice likethis.
I mean just a really deep voice, and I can still hear.
Whenever I, whenever I readthat part there this is now bone
to my bones and flesh to myflesh I was like, oh man, I was,
I was at the read, listen tothem, read them Anyway.
Uh, all right, so we had theserpent.
You guys, do we want to revisitGenesis 3 or do we kind of
(33:00):
cover that?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
I mean I think it's still important.
I think another question youcould ask is so why even?
Why even have the option of atree that could set off evil,
like that, I guess, or theknowledge of it, like why was
that tree even there?
I know you can tie it into thekind of the free will so you can
(33:22):
go and even sending your kidsoff into the world, you can make
them aware of both good and badand hope they always choose
good.
But those are just one of thosethoughts Like if you knew that
what the downfall of mankindcould be.
What's that tree?
Why would it?
Why even be there?
Why would it even be created?
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Well, I think.
I mean, I'm just speculating,but I'd, like you said, because
we have to have our, we have tobe able to make our own
decisions.
And so if, if everything wasjust good all the time, quite
honestly, like it wouldn't haveset up the whole premise for
Jesus because he didn't come andjust like live it up and have a
(34:08):
great time, Like he came andwas tested and went through
trials.
And so, if we expect that ourlife, like if, if all of that
was never there, we wouldn'thave perspectives and we
wouldn't have a need for thispodcast, that's for sure.
But like every, if everythingwas just always good, we
(34:29):
wouldn't know what good wasright.
Like you, you have to have thegood and the bad to really
appreciate the good when itcomes around and to understand
that when the trials of life hitthat we're not, we can't expect
that just because we'reChristians that everything's
(34:49):
going to be good all the time.
Like Jesus didn't have that,why would we think we would?
So I think it's.
It gives us an opportunity tolearn and to appreciate and to
see things differently and, likebe thankful.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, I think so.
I think it also shines a lighton just who we are, because we
still make those bad decisions.
Like how many times are we wejust in a in a world of
contentment, like everythingaround us going well, we know
right from wrong and we wantmore, to the point where we
(35:24):
ended up choosing wrong at somepoint.
Like you see that throughouthistory, where you could have a
really good life, you could haveall you want, but there's that
urge or need for something moreand you go and you try or test
things and poof, you know bitconsequence.
And I know they talk about like,let's say, gateway drugs for
(35:45):
example.
You look at those situationswhere you don't need drugs to
survive but folks look for youknow all these new thrills and
you know they want somethingmore, some more type of an
adrenaline.
You know that they cross theline and try some things that
are not good for you and theyknow that these things aren't
(36:05):
good, but they still do it andunfortunately, those
consequences end up taking theirtoll when those decisions are
made.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Our pastor one of our pastors just did a sermon about
like one of the things that hetalked about was holding on to
things too tightly and likeasked about what you're holding
on to too tightly and for methat's certainly my child, as
what I'm sure it is for a lot ofpeople but the point that he
(36:36):
brought up was, if you'reholding on so tight, like you're
not allowing them to fail andto fall and isn't that where we
learn a lot of our lessons,where we turn to Jesus, where we
learned to go to him and totrust him and to follow him, and
(37:00):
so if you're not allowing yourkids to get into those
situations and to fail sometimes, then maybe they're not
learning the lessons like theyneed to.
And so maybe that was the samekind of thing for God like I'm
not going to hold on too tightly, I'm going to allow them to
fall, and then they'll learnthat they need to come to me.
(37:23):
It's kind of like a baby whenthey're learning to walk.
If you hold on to them all thetime, they're not going to learn
to walk as well as they wouldif you let go and they fall and
they learn how to balancethemselves.
So maybe it's a balance thing.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, I'm going back to trying to put myself in God's
spot, right, and just trying tosay, okay, he's the father, I'm
a father, so we have that kindof common, and that's about
where it ends, I think, as wellbut, you know how disappointing
is it whenever your child doessomething wrong, how
(38:00):
disappointing it could bring youto tears, and you hate it for
them.
Whenever they do something wrong, because you just know that it
can inflict pain, you hope thepatterns aren't starting.
There's so many things therethat go through your mind and
the fear of the things that keepyou up at night.
Sometimes it's just for mychildren and I want them to make
(38:21):
the right choices, but then howhappy and elated are you when
they do make a right choice andyou can clearly see like that
they are overjoyed that theymade the right choice too, but
not because it made you happy.
They just saw the benefits frommaking the right choice.
Maybe that made somebody elsehappy.
Maybe they saw the side effectsof making the right choice and
(38:44):
how it affected other people.
It's cool to be able to see that, and so there's a relation
there too.
So I wonder too with God, is hepleased?
I go back to when Jesus wasbaptized and when he went under
the water he came up and thespirit ascended down to him like
a dove, and then the heavensopened up and they heard a voice
said that this is my belovedson, in whom I am well pleased,
(39:10):
guys.
You know, I can only imaginewhat it's going to be like to be
able to hear that maybe one dayI lost my father whenever I was
really young and, I'll behonest with you, there haven't
been a lot of times that a manhas said to me that they were
pleased with me because theyhaven't had men in my life to be
(39:30):
able to say that, plus becauseI was a screwball.
So I didn't give a lot of guysa lot of opportunities to say
that I made a lot of wrongchoices.
But I can imagine just howpleasing that will be one day,
and so I wonder if that isn't apart of why that tree of
knowledge of good and evil wasthere, so that people can make
the choices of good and peoplecan make the choices of evil
(39:54):
goes back to that free will, towhere we aren't robots, we
aren't pre-programmed to do onlyone thing and one thing only.
We do have choices and thosechoices and decisions, like we
talked about before, are up tous, and then that final judgment
day will come when we have togive account for those choices
and, to be honest with you, thatseems more fair to me than just
(40:19):
me not having any choiceswhatsoever.
Right, I mean it does.
It feels more fair, it feelslike I have liberties.
Then, whenever I have theopportunity to do good or I have
the opportunity to do evil, itfeels fair, it feels right, it
feels just.
And that's what God is too.
(40:40):
He's a just God.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Well, if you were like Pia and I, I'm sure you are
too West.
We're competitive by nature.
So if you are in a tournamentand you're just handed a prize
versus having to work for itlike, aren't you more elated
when you have to work forsomething and achieve something?
So you know, maybe God'sallowing us to have those
(41:07):
perspectives and understandings,and I don't know.
I just think it makes life moreinteresting.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Do you guys think that, like giving all the kids
trophies for finishing like insecond place, third place,
fourth place, everybody gets atrophy?
No, you think, should everybodyget a trophy in life?
Or should that be reservedmaybe for the first place person
, the first place team, to getthe largest trophy and then to
give me a little medals or someparticipation awards to the
other kids or something likethat?
That's fine, but to me, yes,the winners, the achievers, need
(41:38):
to be elevated a little bitmore to allow other people to
have to maybe work a little bitharder to strive for something
greater, to be, you know, happyfor other people.
Instead of just having thatplaying field be one level
playing ground, why even have atournament if everybody's going
to win?
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Right and what's the motivation and drive either,
Like the whole point of beingfirst or being a champion is to
really push yourself and pushyourself to the limits and try
to achieve something, be it asan individual or as a team.
I think that's kind of takenaway if everyone's achieving it,
regardless of the effort and,you know, regardless of the
(42:17):
training and the practice andall the things that they put
into it.
And I know we're, all you know,sports fans.
You can imagine, like all thesethese guys putting their bodies
on the line and football.
You know there's no Super Bowltrophy.
Everyone just kind of gets atrophy at the end.
You've gone through all theseinjuries.
You know what?
18 weeks now, plus some, andeveryone just gets a trophy at
(42:39):
the end.
Thanks for thanks for playing.
No, you're, you're, you'refighting and you're pushing in
order to get that big reward.
And again, that's what we're,we're doing on earth.
You know we, we have the, thegame plan laid out in the word
and you know we're we'refighting and we're battling and
we're we're doing all this good.
And you know, trying to livebetter lives.
(43:00):
You know, honestly, before,over the world and I don't even
talk about it like if, if heavenwasn't real, like I still feel,
like I've lived a better life,a more purposeful life,
believing that it is, and I dobelieve that it is, but even
without it, like my lifepersonally has been better
because I've been moreintentional about the way I live
(43:23):
, with those type of promises.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yeah, and they certainly don't give everybody
in the Olympics the medal Likethat still doesn't happen either
.
So they brought something there.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Maybe, so, maybe so.
Hey, we talked about Genesisthree in one of the past
episodes.
I'm not sure what episode itwas, but you can go back there
and listen to some of that toget a little bit more in depth
detail on what we thought aboutGenesis three and the Garden of
Eden and and Satan and the treeof knowledge of good and evil.
But I'm going to fast forwardhere to the end of chapter three
(43:54):
just so we can wrap this up.
First, one, two the Lord Godsaid behold, the man has become
like one of us, knowing good andevil.
And now let us, let he, let'she, stretch out his hand and
take also from the tree of lifeand eat and live forever.
Therefore the Lord God sent himout of the Garden of Eden to
cultivate the ground from whichhe was taken.
So he drove man out.
At the east of the Garden ofEden he stationed a cherubim and
(44:16):
a flaming sword which turnedevery direction to guard the way
to the tree of life.
That kind of wrapped up theGarden of Eden story.
Next week is Cain and Abel, orat least Genesis.
Chapter four is Cain and Abel,and we'll talk about that at
some point here.
I know you talked aboutbouncing around from the Old
Testament to the New Testamentjust to talk about things.
And I would love to go overinto Matthew or any of those
(44:38):
books just to, kind of, you know, change it up a little bit and
get a different perspective eachweek.
And I know Matthew, chapter oneis all about a genealogy and
that could be really, you know,kind of like okay, how are you
going to make a podcast out ofgenealogy?
I got one, cause I got one.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Oh, I got one.
What?
Speaker 3 (44:56):
I'm in solo.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I think.
I think it's a good one,because genealogies can be
intimidating.
I would love to be able toshare that with everybody,
though, if we can do that.
I know you're the executiveproducer.
I'm just putting the pressureon you not to be able to say no
in front of the thousands oflisteners we have, or whatever.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah, we could.
We could definitely dive intoMatthew, and I will also tell
you and the listeners toremember that Genesis three 24.
I have another theory in thefuture when it comes to that one
as well.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Well.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
I can.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
I like it a lot.
Hey, good job by you guys.
It's good to be able to take amoment just to be able to sit
down and be quiet and study theBible and to meditate on these
things and to talk about it witha couple of good friends and I
feel like you guys are that,even though you're some 500
miles away from where I am now.
But it's cool that we're ableto have that opportunity to be
able to sit down and talk andshare our thoughts, not only
(45:51):
with each other, but with allthe listeners too, and we really
do appreciate all of youlisteners as well.
Thank you so much for ratingthe program.
It touches a heart.
Pierre sent me a couple of thosedifferent, different reviews
and I was like, oh, we gotreviews, man.
And he said, well, there'sothers too Besides that.
I said, really, there's otherand that's just cool to be able
(46:11):
to do so.
You've, you've.
You cheer us up whenever you dothat and we appreciate the
criticism.
And look if you know somethingbetter than we do.
If you have your own theory,we've gone whack a doodle on the
show.
Okay, we have you.
Just say I don't want you tostay up late at night thinking
about this and thinking thatyou're the only one, and so I
love that the format is able,pierre and Michelle, to be able
(46:32):
to, you know, just share ourthoughts and to not be judged
for them, you know yep, I agree,that's the point was.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
We appreciate you.
I know you always thank us andthank the listeners.
You know we're we're trioourselves, not a holy Trinity,
but we're still pretty good trio.
So we thank you for comingalong and kind of leading the
ship as our, as our co-host hereand just give you, give you
your, your thanks as well forfor being willing and being open
(46:59):
yourself, even amongst ourdifferences.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Absolutely no worries .
I am glad to do it and, asalways you listeners out there,
you can get in touch with Pierreat Pee Wee 31 and get in touch
with Michelle at go pack, go 411, over on Twitter, and you can
also reach me on Twitter as well.
At loafing it on Twitter, don'tforget to leave a review.
We're even on Facebook righthere.
Tell them all those places thatwe are.
You know better than I do.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
So we're not on Facebook.
I'm one there personally, andso I've had some outreaches of
folks that have found me onFacebook.
But we are on Twitter atfinding faith pod.
We also have an email that'sopen for for all who want to
chime in and reach out.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
That's a findingfafelosingsleep at
gmailcom and, as always, we wantto encourage you to pray for us
and we will pray for you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.