Episode 20: Lessons from Eden: Exploring Morality, Old Habits and the Power of Faith

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Ever wonder why we are instinctively drawn to the forbidden, or how exaggerated stories can lead us down the wrong path? Join us as we reflect on these questions in our milestone 20th episode. We kick off the episode with a light-hearted discussion about our NFL team rivalry and our growing Twitter community @findingfaithpod, but things quickly take a deep dive as we explore the timeless stories and lessons from the Garden of Eden.

We grapple with the intriguing concept of heaven and earth, the repercussions of the serpent’s temptation, and the pivotal role of Jesus as the sacrificial lamb. Moving forward, we draw inspiration from the trials of Cain and Abel to discuss the origins of morals and the profound perfection of life's inner workings. In the face of trials, we consider the enduring power of love and the strength we can draw from our faith.

We conclude the episode by tackling the challenge of breaking old habits and the importance of practicing righteousness. We share our personal experiences and insights on how making changes in our behavior can bring about positive outcomes in our lives. Inspired by the story of Cain and Abel, we caution against the destructive power of bitterness and jealousy. As always, we are eager to hear your thoughts, so don't hesitate to reach out to us through our email or Twitter handle. We look forward to continuing our journey of finding faith (and hopefully not losing too much sleep) together.

Email: [e-mail]
Twitter: @FindingFaithPod

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's time to wake up and find faith in losing sleep.
Podcast episode 20 20 happyanniversary here in Michele.
That's our 20th episodeanniversary.
It's awesome.
Yeah, pretty crazy thing aboutactually I knew we're at 20, but

(00:33):
it didn't really really hit methat we're at 20.
Yeah, that's 20.
Two oh two, oh hey, that isPierre and Michele.
They are a married couple onthe finding faith and losing
sleep.
They don't just play it on thefinding faith and losing sleep.
I'd be in trouble all the time.
Okay, that's what it is.
I am Wes, easily one of yourhosts at low for dinner on
Twitter.
Pierre is at P we 31 andMichelle, I've heard the bad
news that you actually are nolonger on Twitter, so I don't

(00:55):
have to give out your Twitterhandle anymore.
That's kind of like a littleblessing.
This week is what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Very funny, wes, you're still on Twitter.
What you don't want to say itthis week?
I don't know why.
Why would that be?

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Michelle and I are friends for a long time now and
one of the kind of frenemiesactually, because her team is
the Green Bay Packers and myteam is the Chicago Bears.
This is week one of the NFLseason and of course our bears,
my bears and her Packers areplaying each other.
So I just give her a littlehard time because I am in the
driver's seat of the findingfaith and losing sleep podcast.
She is at go pack, go for oneone over on Twitter and Pierre,

(01:32):
I don't, I can never rememberthe Twitter handle for the for
the podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
It's at finding faith pod.
So just at finding faith pod.
Pretty simple, honestly, butit's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
He's bears and cut him some slack.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
And we actually have a lot of followers.
I checked it out and I was like, wow, how in the world do we
have that many followers?
I don't, I don't, okay, but I,you know, I have finding faith.
Pod is what it is, and then theemail where people can call and
complain, or email and complain.
They can't call.
The email address, of course,about the podcast is what.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
It's a finding faith dot losing sleep.
At gmailcom and you actuallyhad one said long time listener,
but it was addressed to you soI'm not sure how long time they
were looking to be a guest onthe podcast, so I hadn't I
hadn't replied yet, so I willreply, but I thought I'd bring
that up at the email wasaddressed to West specifically

(02:25):
as a long time listener.
I was like you can't be thatlong time If you don't know that
I'm the one.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
That means that you know, well, you know, we are on
our 20th podcast anniversary, sothat's good.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
They want to be on our podcast, or they want you to
be on their podcast or theyhave a sound like they have a
client that wants to be on ourpodcast.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Oh, my, that's that's we have to.
That may be a little sketchy, Idon't.
I don't know how to handle that.
That sounds interesting.
We may have to pursue that,peers, what we may have to do.
By the way, if you get a chanceto leave a review or leave a
comment or anything like that,give, give some ratings, please
do just.
It helps beat the aggl rhythmsand we try to get the show out
there to other people, becausewe are just normal, average,

(03:06):
everyday people trying to workour way through life, different
situations, differentcircumstances.
If you have been with us for along time like a long time
listener, then then you havecome to realize that we do talk
about some controversial topicsand it's cool to talk about
those things, especially withpeople from different
backgrounds, like all three ofus have, and still agree to
disagree, maybe sometimes stilljust be able to have a good

(03:28):
friendship, a good brotherly andsisterly love for one another.
Throughout all these differentthings that we're going through
in life, having differentopinions from different
backgrounds, and still beingable to get along.
I think that's important to beable to do and that's what
that's what this whole podcastis made up for.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, and I need.
I need people to email peers sothat I can start sending stuff
anonymously.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Oh, how does that work?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
I don't know either.
But yeah, it's good, especiallytoday's society, to be able to
agree, to disagree, and I knowit gets tough for us.
You know, if you got any typeof opinion on something that
differs, you know you're just belittle or told your own or
stupid or whatever.
And you know we all three of ushave different opinions on

(04:14):
different topics and it's coolthat we can disagree and talk
through it and then come back,you know, later and still be
free.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
And I totally have been belittled and felt stupid.
After all my years in this life, I've felt that way.
So it's okay, I'm cool.
I'm cool with doing that.
That's fine with me.
But hey, I do want to thankpeople too.
We've received at least one ortwo questions, if I'm not
mistaken, either throughoutleaving a comment on whatever
listening platform you like tolisten to it on, or through the

(04:43):
email, and I have been trying toget a question episode right
Instead of doing like wenormally do working our way
through the Bible or working ourway through life, however it is
.
I want a question episode, butwe're going to need more than
one or two or three questions,however many we have.
I want more than that.
So, finding faith, losing sleepat gmailcom Is that right?

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Finding faithlosingsleep at gmailcom.
So halfway there you forgot theperiod in the middle.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
I forget exclamation points and commas too.
We are in Genesis, chapterthree, guys, and we done this
episode before.
I feel like, didn't we do thislike in a past episode?

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, we went, we went one, two and we bled into
three, because that's when Ikind of had my theory on the
whole Lucifer being in thegarden situation.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, you really went low.
If you went back a couple ofepisodes and listened to that,
pierre, I didn't know youthought that far outside the box
, pierre.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
I can't.
I told you like this is alosing sleep is the last part of
this podcast, so there's thingsthat I think about that keep me
awake and I go down a bunch ofrabbit holes.
I like to, I want to know.
Even though there's certainthings I know we can't know and
we'll never know, there's stilldoesn't stop me from pursuing
some, some more knowledge oncertain situations.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Michelle, I think that that's something, as I
studied for this and prayedabout this episode different
things like that.
It's one of the things that youknow, I want to have answers to
, because there's there's a lotof questions that pop up in
Genesis, chapter three.
The number one question thatcomes up for me how in the world
was Satan a snake?
You know, did the snake reallytalk?

(06:22):
Did those kind of questionsjust make me go well, and it's
hard to understand and fathomthat something like that could
happen, and so that's where yougot to have a little faith, but
you also don't necessarily haveto have all the answers.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I think that's true.
I mean, I actually appreciatethe fact that Pierre goes down
these rabbit holes because it'skind of in my nature to do the
same thing, but he kind of doesit for me.
So it and having honestlyhaving this podcast, like those
things help, I think, ourmarriage.
Because if you, if you know usor if you have listened long

(06:59):
enough, you might be surprisedif you're only a listener and
don't actually know us.
But Pierre is actually kind ofa man, a few words.
So it's been good for me tohear sometimes what he thinks
about things and and how hefeels about things other than
when he goes down these rabbitholes.
But you know, I think I guess Idon't know, like it's you're

(07:21):
right, wes it's hard because wedon't know right and we're.
I think we're all justthirsting for that knowledge,
which is why this is soimportant for us to be able to
talk through these things, causeI know we're not the only ones
and you know Pierre usually hasbetter insight than I do, but
I'll, I'll grant him that Idon't.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
I don't know that I necessarily conclude I did a lot
of study, I did a lot ofbackground, I've had a lot of
experience in studying thesethings and I've thought about
this Genesis chapter three for along time and I hate to break
the news to everybody, but Idon't have any, you know,
groundbreaking revelations onthe answer to some of those
questions about Genesis chapterthree.
I'm going to lead us around todifferent Bible things and talk

(08:03):
about some different Biblethings to try and comfort us, so
we don't lose too much sleepover it.
But I will encourage you if youthink that you have the answers
to some of these questions, youcan get in touch with us
through all those differentavenues like we talked about
earlier, and please do, becausewe want answers too, and and the
reason why we put ourselves outthere is to tell you that we
don't have all the answers andsometimes we have more questions

(08:23):
than answers.
But as a believer, or even as aperson, that's okay.
It's okay to have questions andit's okay to try and think
about these things and to try torational and to talk about them
with other people.
It's okay.
I don't think that it should bea discouraging thing, pierre.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
For sure, like you want to be able to have these
conversations, like it doesn'thelp to always just let things
be or just leave them on theback burner.
If things are bothering you orconcerning you, even if you
don't get the answers you'relooking for, it's often good to
talk through things.
I mean, that's why people gothrough like therapists and

(09:05):
therapy and psychologists andthose type of situations,
because sometimes a relief issimply getting something off
your chest and just being ableto speak it out and have someone
to listen.
You know, and I think we're ina world right now there's
there's a lot of talkers,there's a lot of people that
want to talk.
Are there enough listeners thatwill truly just be be willing

(09:27):
to sit down and, you know, justhear what hear people out, hear
what they have to say, withoutbasically listening to reply,
just listen to listen, and Ithink it's something that we all
struggle with at some point.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
You know, it makes me mad is when people tell me that
they you bring up.
Let's just say, I bring upreligion to somebody, because
the day ends in a Y and so I'mgoing to bring up religion to
somebody, that's just how it'sgoing to be.
And they tell me, oh no, no, no, I don't talk about religion
with people and I just.
It makes me mad, I don't youbring up politics, I don't talk

(09:59):
about politics.
And I sit there and I think,well, how's the world ever gonna
become a better place if wecan't talk about politics and
religion amongst each other orwith each other, because those
are two very important thingsthat, honestly, when done right,
makes the world a better place.
You know, I mean just it canmake the world a better place.
Through government, throughpolitics, you can make the world

(10:24):
a better place.
Through religion, you can makethe world a better place.
Yes, when both sides are abused,when either thing is abused, it
makes the world maybe a worseplace, especially for
individuals that get abused bythe systems.
All right, it does, but you cannever improve on a broken
system if you can't talk aboutit, and you can't ever I don't

(10:44):
wanna say expose broken systemsif you don't ever talk about it.
But it just frustrates mebecause I think people need to
get that stuff out and open.
And one of the reasons why theydon't wanna talk about it is
either because they've ignoredit, because they're so
frustrated with the systemswhether it's a government or
whether it's a religion they'reso frustrated with it that they

(11:04):
just ignore it, so they don'tthink they know enough about it,
so they don't wanna talk aboutit or they've been hurt in the
past by something and they don'twanna rehash those kind of
things.
And I can understand some ofthat stuff okay, I do.
But if we don't ever talk aboutit, how in the world are we
gonna ever make any of it anybetter?

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, I think some of that West might be that people
are afraid that their words willbe twisted and the intent
behind them then turns intosomething different because
somebody misunderstood ormisrepresented what they said or
how they felt and it justbecomes this big argument or

(11:43):
something that gets out ofcontrol.
That really didn't need tohappen.
And so I think a lot of timespeople just err on the side of
not having the conversationversus having to then go back,
reiterate and justify and defendwhat they've said or how they
feel, and I think it's sad.

(12:04):
I think you're right that it isimportant to have those
conversations and to find somecommon ground, and if you can't
find the common ground to beable to agree, to disagree, like
we talked.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
I wish I would have thought about that, pierre,
before we decided to do thepodcast that our words could be
twisted and manipulated andturned all the way around.
I used to kiss us, I wish, hey,speaking about arguments.
So here we have the Fall man,right In Genesis, chapter three.
The serpent, it says, was moreof the crafty than any other
beast of the field which theLord God had made.

(12:36):
And he said to the woman how doI do a serpent's voice?
I've done God's voice and Ifelt kind of strange about that.
The serpent's voice in a snake.
I don't.
I kind of, yeah, how do you dothat?

Speaker 2 (12:47):
You had to do the little on the end of your s's.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
I'm not surprised a Green Bay Packer fan can do a
good snake in the grass voice.
No, no, yeah I do.
I picture the snake in what'swith Jungle Book, the Jungle
Book.
No, yeah, I'm not gonna do thevoice though.
He said to the woman.
Indeed, god said you shall noteat from any tree of the garden.
Eat from any tree of the garden.

(13:13):
And the woman said to theserpent from the fruit of the
tree of the garden we may eat.
Yeah, we may eat, but not thefruit of the tree which is in
the middle of the garden.
God has said you shall not eatfrom it or touch it, lest you
die.
First thing, I notice that'snot what God said.
God did not say that.
If you go back over to Genesis,chapter two, verse 16, lord God
commanded a man saying from anytree of the garden you may eat

(13:35):
freely, but from the tree of theknowledge of good and evil you
shall not eat, for in the daythat you eat it from it, you
shall surely die.
The woman said you shall noteat from it, or you shall not
touch it, or lest you shall die.
She added to it, she added tothe commandment what are you
saying, wes?
No, nothing there.
But it reminded me of, likejust today, in religion or in

(14:02):
other aspects, of things peopleadd to the word of God for
whatever reason they wanna addto it, for maybe selfish desires
, I don't know, but they add toit.
And it reminds me of even inthe book of Revelation where, in
what is the last chapter ofRevelation, one of the last
things that's ever written inRevelation chapter 22, verses 18

(14:23):
and 19,.
Anybody who adds to the word nowthey'll be added to like the
lake of fire, I think, is whatit says all the plagues shall be
added to them, right?
And if anybody takes away fromthe word of God, then they're
gonna take away from them fromthe tree of knowledge of good
and evil in the final days.
So I think about that and I'mlike holy cow.
It's all kind of tying togethera little bit whenever I read

(14:44):
all these things and it'sstrange to be able to tie it all
together like that.
But that's the warning.
But you see that Eve does thatvery thing.
Let me see the very thing Godshall take away his part from
the tree of life and from theholy city, which are written in
this book, and I think it wastalking about the book of
Revelation there, but still itjust kind of all ties back
together to the knowledge of thetree of good and evil.

(15:06):
So what are your thoughts aboutthat?

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, I mean I think you're right, and I don't know
about the.
I mean it's cool.
You pointed out the wholewhether it's touch or whether
it's just eat, but I think, atthe end of the day, it was just
kind of in my mind just leavethe tree alone, like, if that's
the one thing that's off limits,then, you know, allow it to be

(15:31):
off limits.
But I mean, you see that,throughout, though, or folks are
kind of always enticed by whatthey can't have in life, and I
think it starts, you know, righthere with the first two human
beings, where a littletemptation, a little, you know,
snake in the ear can convinceyou to do things that you know

(15:51):
you're not supposed to do, and Ithink that happened here with
Eve, and so, even though, youknow, let's say, it was just eat
, not touch, the fact that sheadded to it could have even been
just been more of her knowledge, knowing that it was wrong to
the point that she exaggeratedhow wrong it was.
So not even just eat, but justeat and touch, because she knew

(16:13):
that that was really the onething that was off limits, and
so she may have exacerbated it alittle bit.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Do you think that's human nature too, a little bit
Like right off the bat it shows,like even Eve did it in the
very beginning.
Like to exaggerate orsensationalize something in a
story, Like if you're telling it.
Do you think that's a bit ofhuman nature to like add
additional details to make itmore interesting or, to you know

(16:40):
, make a dangerous situationmore dangerous, or something
like that.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
I think it can be.
I mean, folks want to tell acool story and I know if you're
a kid you ever played the gametelephone like you start the
person next to you.
By the time it got to the endit was something completely
different.
Was it truly something beingdifferent passed around, or did
someone take it upon themselvesto kind of exaggerate the story?

(17:07):
So yeah, I think it's possiblewhen you hear and I even hear
stories that I've heard, youknow, hundreds of times, that
maybe changes just a little bitor gets a little bit more
dramatic than what it was thefirst time I heard it.
And I may even tell somethingmyself a little differently, but
I don't know if I do it for anytype of attention.
It's just in the moment, Iguess.
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
I don't know.
I remember this one time,whenever I was flying to Ecuador
I mean, I was sailing a ship toAfrica is what I was doing in
the ship.
And I was going over there tomeet the Philippine.
I don't know, I was just makingthat up like exaggerating a
story.
You don't say I'll say I don'tget a lot of stories right

(17:50):
anymore.
Like my wife is just waiting inthe background whenever I say a
story just to be able tocorrect all the times I say the
story wrong and it's not onpurpose.
She says I say it wrong.
I'm telling you I'm not sayingit wrong.
It is right as rain in my mind,but I'm not saying it wrong.
I just maybe misremember somethings.
So I didn't start writing stuffdown a little bit more.
I think my brain is full withstuff, but whenever I look at

(18:13):
Genesis, chapter three, yes, Ithink that it is right here.
I think maybe that they put ahedge around what the rule of
God was, possibly even too, youknow, just to take a little more
precaution.
Maybe they should have built abigger hedge.
I think of because Satan was inthere.

(18:33):
And then he said he convincesher.
I say Satan's a he, the serpentconvinces Eve to go ahead and
take a bite of it.
We don't know if it's an apple,we don't know if it's a fig, it
doesn't matter, it's a fruitfrom the tree of knowledge of
God and evil.
She eats it and then her eyesare open.
Then she persuades her husbandto do it.

(18:54):
Women have got a lot of trickytricks in order to persuade
their husband to do things, soI'm not sure how she did it.
She told him hey, it's good forfruit, it's good to eat, it's
good, all those things.
It's delicious.
And so he eats it.
And then both their eyes areopen and then they realize that
they don't have any clothes on.
Is that the best way to saythat?
I don't have to say the otherthey don't have any clothes on.
And then they hear the word ofGod.

(19:16):
Or they hear God one day comingthrough the garden.
Now, that's weird too right.
They sit, god, they hear God.
He's walking through the garden.
What's going on?
Hey?

Speaker 2 (19:27):
here's rabbit hole.
We'll inform you.
Hold on please.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
So, yeah, one of the holes I went down is so the
garden of Eden was kind of likea heaven and earth combined type
of situation.
It was the earth actually beingin God's presence and so the
fact that God was walking in thegarden with them, it says in

(19:52):
the evening wind.
But basically the rabbit hole Iwent down was that the way the
world was initially created inthe garden of Eden is you were
in the presence of God, so hewas there, he was roaming,
heaven and earth were kind ofintertwined and then once this
all took place, with theforbidden fruit being eaten,

(20:13):
that kind of separated Adam andEve and earth from the presence
of God.
And with that, in order to getback in the presence of God, is
why you had things like thesacrificing of animals is
basically something had to dieIf it wasn't you yourself.
You were sacrificing an animalversus yourself as a human, and

(20:38):
sacrificing that animal is whatgot you back into the presence
of God.
That basically Adam and Eve gotus kicked out of and then,
moving forward in the story,jesus became that sacrifice to
open up the presence of God tous more willingly, where we
didn't have to sacrifice cleananimals any longer.

(21:00):
So I think, with this and inGenesis and how the rabbit hole
taught me is that the garden ofEden was technically a heaven
and earth combined type ofsituation in the presence of God
, and that's ultimately whatwe're looking to get back to at
the end of the story, at the endof Revelation, et cetera, when
we're all made whole.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Well, and what was interesting in what we watched
and listened to also was thatit's saying you don't have to
wait till you die to experienceheaven, like the intent is for
you to be able to experience itwhile you're still here on earth
.
So that was interesting too.
You're like, oh, wait a minute.
So it's kind of cool.

(21:43):
It really was the juxtapositionof having both heaven and earth
together and then having themseparate, and then there's a
crossover that still exists andwe can actually reach that while
we're still alive.
And where I had frustration andPierre will tell you is I still
have this whole question aboutwhen we die and I just wanna

(22:08):
understand that more clearly.
And I'm sure that'll be on.
We'll touch on that later, butwhat we watched didn't touch on
that enough for me.
But that's okay, because Istill like to hear about heaven
and earth.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
And it basically touched on Jesus being the one
person, the one God, that wasboth.
He was full human on earth andfull son in heaven, and he's
kind of that bridge, like I said, now, and even as he's ascended
to heaven, he's left thatbridge open to where his word,

(22:44):
his teaching, is kind of thepresence of God throughout this
earth, currently in this world.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, interesting things.
It's stuff that we just don'tknow about.
And there's even crazier stuff.
I don't wanna say that yourstuff is even crazy because it's
hypothetical.
We don't know the answers tosome of these things and it's
good to try and draw thoseconclusions, but I don't think
you're crazy.
Now there are crazy things outthere about stuff like this that

(23:17):
really think outside of the box.
I don't know if you guys haveever heard like this reptilian
conspiracy theory, right, aDavid Ike guy where he talks
about it's kind of like areptilian theory where that's
what created reptilians arealiens and the serpent is one of
those reptilian people over thewords, over governments and

(23:38):
stuff like that.
Just crazy stuff, I meanbecause people don't know the
answers to some of these thingsand they try to fill on the
blanks.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Didn't they ever show like V or something like that
years ago.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
You're right, but this David Ike fellow has made a
living off of these, off ofthis reptilian theory and all
these stuff.
But anyway, you read it and yougo huh, I don't want to rule
that out either, because itsounds kind of.
Then I think about the serpentin the Garden of Eden and I'm
going well, that's kind of areptilian thing, isn't it?

(24:12):
And I start thinking about whatDavid Ike and I'm like okay, no
, I can't.
We can't fill in the blanks toall the questions.
We don't have all the answers.
There's some weird stuff that'sgoing on that we don't even
know about.
You think about Jude, chapterJude, chapter nine, jude, verse
nine, where it talks aboutMichael the Archangel and Satan

(24:35):
wrestling or trying to.
Satan's trying to wrestle thebones of Moses from Michael the
Archangel.
Hold on a minute now, what areyou trying to tell me?
And this is from the book oftruth You're trying to tell me
that that really happened.
Well, I'm going to take it thatit did, because I believe in
the Bible and I believe thatthis has got a pretty good,
accurate account of a lot ofthings, and so I'm just going to

(24:58):
have to take.
I want to see them wrestle.
I want to see the WWE and seewhat Vince McMahon does whenever
that happens, right.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
And boy.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
But that's what.
That's what we're told to likein Ephesians chapter six.
I'm going to jump over there,Pierre, so I'm opening up my bag
of chips here.
Ephesians, chapter six Well, Imean, I got to flip the pages of
the Bible.
What do you want me to do?
I can't.
Just, I ain't got it all rightthere on my phone or anything
like that.
I'm old school man.
Ephesians, chapter six, verse 10.
Finally, be strong in the Lordand in the strength of his might

(25:29):
.
Put on the full armor of Godthat you may be able to stand
firm against the schemes of thedevil, for our struggle is not
against flesh and blood, butit's against the rulers, against
the powers, against the worldforces of the darkness, against
the spiritual forces ofwickedness in heavenly places.
And you just break down thosewords real quick, because Paul

(25:53):
says hold up, you put on thefull armor of God, because your
battle is not against thesethings, right, it's against the
schemes of the devil, and ourstruggle is it against flesh and
blood.
Paul, you don't know me verywell, because I'm actually flesh
and blood.
That's what I am, and mystruggle is against flesh and

(26:17):
blood.
But Paul's telling me, though,your struggle is not against
that, it's against things thatyou can't even see Darkness in
this world, in heavenly places.
That's where your struggle is.
Now, that trips me out y'all,because that's strange.
I can't see what these thingsare, that maybe are manipulating
, that maybe moving some thingsaround to try in what does Peter

(26:40):
say?
We see the Satan as a serpentin Genesis, chapter 3, but Peter
tells us that Satan is like aroaring lion hiding behind
corners.
You know, right in the pounce.
And so we just got all thisstuff going on and we just have
to be on guard for the schemesagainst the devil.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
I mean it makes sense , like I know it's kind of hard
to fathom in our human minds,based off what we know, what we
can see, but when you just thinkabout all the things you're
faced with, all the obstaclesthat come, all the valleys I got

(27:24):
myself.
I've been, I've been feelingpretty awful over the last few
weeks and I can't figure outwhat's going on.
I saw I think it was a quotefrom Denzel Washington, the
actor that kind of talks aboutif you're doing wrong, the devil
kind of leaves you alone.
You know he's fine, he'sletting you frolic If you're

(27:47):
doing right or on the right path.
That's when he attacks, that'swhen he's after you.
And I felt like I've been in apretty good place here lately.
It's my faith and you knowspiritual life and personal life
and I got all of a sudden likethere's been some struggles just
trying to figure out what inthe world is going on with my,
my health and stuff over theselast few weeks and I I get to

(28:11):
thinking like maybe you knowthis is one of those devil
attacking moments where he'sfound a way in a way to cause me
some doubt, cause me somefrustration, and you know he's
on the attack and he's trying toprevent me from maybe that next
step, that next path, that nextpurpose.
And and that could be the casefor so many of us you know, once

(28:33):
, once you're on a really goodpath and you're trying to do
right in life, it often seemsthat something happens that
tries to get you off track.
It's like why would that be?
And on the flip side, when,when you're not living things
right, it seems like again, itseems like things aren't going
too bad.
You know you're doing awfulthings.

(28:54):
Maybe that's why, but itdoesn't seem like necessarily
you're only attack.
So I don't know, it's just ahard thing to fathom, but the
spirits and the powers kind ofmake sense Just when you think
about life and kind of howthings play out.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Well, my best friend and I have had this conversation
over many years because she'sshe kind of well, she was the
catalyst for me to find my faithand find a deeper faith, and I
appreciate that so so much.
She's always just kind of beenthat person that was a good

(29:32):
person for me to watch and tostudy and see how things really
should be done, and it was kindof interesting that when she was
going through some rough timesit was me who was giving her the
reminder that hey, don't forget, Like remember what you told me
, like if Satan can't get at youthis way, he's going to try to
find another way.

(29:53):
So if you've removed thisobstacle now, he's got to find a
different way in.
And once he finds that if hecan't get at you one way, he's
going to try another way.
And so I think it's just youknow, like we've said before,
putting on your armor every dayand realizing that sometimes
that armor isn't behind you.
So you have to make sure thatyou know you're you're

(30:17):
protecting yourself, becausehe's a sneaky one.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Not only that, but I'm sure, if you and Pierre, or
any time you go through any kindof struggles, whether it's
health or whatever, if you'vesurrounded yourself with the
armor of God and you've beendoing the right things, I just
wonder, like, are people thereto reach out and help?

(30:41):
Are people checking on you?
Are you finding some love there?
Are you, are you doing thatkind of stuff?
Are you receiving more so thanbeing able to give?
I think that's one of the mostfrustrating things.
Whenever you are sick orwhatever, you're just not able
to give like you want to.
That's the sign of a goodChristian.
That's the sign of a matureChristian is wanting to give.
It's a sign of growth, justlike in Mother Nature itself.

(31:06):
That's what plants do.
Plants give.
You know they grow and thenthey give.
And how many times are we talkedabout in a Christian faith or
in a Christian walk, from abiblical perspective, as a tree
or, as you know, look at howsomebody grows.
Or you think about Jesus'sanalogies of how seed was spread
out there in the ground andbeing fertile seeds and growing

(31:29):
and being able to give back.
So I think that whenever youlook at something like that,
that has a lot of effect andcause an effect on our lives.
I agree with Pierre.
So I'm glad you're doing better.
I want to say that you're goingto do even better.
I know I've been thinking aboutyou, I've been praying for you
and stuff like that, so I thinkthat those things are going to
be able to happen for you.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
Thank you, I appreciate that and it's just
been like the last couple yearshave been just an obstacle.
And so, you know, we hadMichelle and her cancer battle
and she had some other issuesthat needed some surgeries.
And now it's on to me and soI'm feeling like we're like like
a power couple here, like we're, we must be getting ready to do

(32:13):
something big.
And they were already in theprocess of doing something big.
The way things have just goneand you know, I don't wish
what's happened on us, onanybody, that would never be the
case.
But you, you get in thosemoments where you're like so why
, why us?
At times you know thosequestions why, why all of this?
You know why, why couldn't itjust be one versus three or

(32:34):
whatever it might be?
But then you start again.
You start to think like who'sthe who's the devil going to
target, and I feel like we'vebeen in a pretty, pretty good
space, even amongst the thething that's on at us.
So it kind of adds up andhonestly gives me a little bit
of peace of mind to think thatway that maybe I'm just on a
really good track and, you know,our families on a really good

(32:56):
track and that's why all thesethings are happening, and just
continue to have faith and pushthrough it.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
Well, and everything we keep reading is like be
joyful when you have thesetrials and tribulations so like
that just keeps coming up overand over again is to be joyful
that you know?

Speaker 3 (33:13):
you can consider it all joy.
Not some consider it all joy.
But you are faced with trialsand I think that's that's tough
for anybody, even with us.
You know, taking this faithjourney that's tough to consider
.
You know cancer joy.
Consider unknown answers tohealth joy.
Consider deaf in your familyjoy.

(33:35):
But these are trials and I meanoftentimes you can look back on
these situations if you survivethem and speak to how much
stronger those things made you.
But in the moment it's tough,it's hard to be joyful.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
No, it is, and we don't.
We don't know all the answersor anything.
First Corinthians, chapter 13,verse nine it talks about that
and it says that we know in partand that we prophesy in part.
And you know, we all have allthese things in part in this
world, but one day, all of ourhope, all of our love, all of
our faith, all of our faith, allthose things are going to come

(34:12):
to an end.
Except for faith, or sorry,except for love, get faith, hope
and love.
Faith, hope and love, lovenever fails.
Love is always there.
Love is going to be lastingeternally.
And so where we hope thesethings are going to go away,
they will.
Those things will go away.
Where we are knowledge, wherewe don't have complete knowledge
, that's going to go awaybecause we're going to have,

(34:34):
we're going to have completeknowledge.
But love, love is going toalways be there because God has
always loved us from thebeginning and he's going to love
us for eternity.
So it's always, it's always oneof those things to be able to
look forward to, for sure.
But I know that I don't knoweverything and that's why I just
know in part.
Hey, back to Genesis three.
And, by the way, you two, youguys, are going to be built back
like the $6 million coupleinstead of the $6 million man.

(34:57):
It's going to be this milliondollar couple.
You're going to be like.
The biotic man of the bioticwoman is what you're going to be
from a spiritual standpoint.
That's what you're going tohave, like all the spiritual
fruit laying around you andeverything, and you're just
going to be able to eat from thespiritual fruit whenever you
need to, and you'll be strongerand bigger and better than ever
is what's going to end upSpeaking to existence.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Amen.
And here's the thing.
I think it's important that wetalk about these things because
you know, I know when we listento other people or we see other
people, it's easy to draw aconclusion that hey,
everything's great, everythingis good.
And I think it's important forpeople to know that.
You know we struggle to and youknow we have to find a way to
push through and to lean on ourfaith and to really dive even

(35:40):
deeper and to let it growstronger, and so it's just
important for people to knowthat.
I think.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Wrapping up Genesis 3 , it talks about, you know, all
the punishments then that cometo the woman and the serpent and
the man.
And God finds out, figures outall the things that have
happened, and the man blames thewoman, the woman blames the
snake, and the snake has toanswer to God first, and then
God hands out punishments allthe way down the line, the snake

(36:07):
to the woman, to the man Right.
And it says here that that'swhere Adam called his wife Eve
in verse 20, because she wasmother of all the living.
And Lord God made garments ofskin for Adam and his wife and
clothed them.
So God clothed them.
You know God's the one that putgarments on them, which is kind
of cool.
Then the Lord said behold, manhas become like one of us,

(36:29):
knowing good and evil, and nowhe has stretched out his hand
and take also from the tree oflife and eat and live forever.
Therefore the Lord God sent himout of the Garden of Eden to
cultivate the ground from whichhe was taken.
Never had to cultivate itbefore, never had to work the
ground, he's just able to be alazy teenager at the house.
You know that's what man was.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
What did it say on 23 ?

Speaker 1 (36:51):
23.
Therefore, the Lord, god, senthim out of the Garden of Eden to
cultivate the ground he senthim out of the Garden of Eden
sent him out of God's presence.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
You're just trying to drive home your yeah, it makes
sense.
Like we just talked about, youknow that, the garden, the
reason God was blowing there, isthat it was, it was the
presence of God was there, likeheaven Was there Up until that
point, but God sent them out ofthe Garden of Eden, sent him out

(37:22):
of his presence.
So sorry.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
No, no, it's good.
And my question is who's the usRight?
Because he said let's he becomelike one of us.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
I'm just the other heavenly figures.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah, I mean there's plurality there, like we talked
about in Genesis, chapter 1,where the father, son, holy
Spirit, is what we kind of.
The Trinity is what we, what wesay there, and so it's still
that plurality thing.
That theme that's kind of goingthrough there, that's to become
like one of us knowing good andevil and essentially living
forever, eternally, I guess, iswhat it is.
And so you got to kind of putan end to eternity and and that

(38:01):
that goes to For us, like wheredid God come from?
Who made God?
It's hard for us to wrap ourmind around that or our brain
around that, because we aremortal figures and so we had a
beginning and an end.
And if God never had abeginning and an end, we can't
really wrap our head around that, right?
So that's, that's always toughto do and that's one of those

(38:22):
top 10 questions everybodyalways asks Well, where did God
come from?
I don't know.
But he I don't know that henecessarily came from anywhere,
because I know where I came fromor I know how I got here.
But I had a starting point andI'm going to end up having a
finishing point.
So that's how I wrap that upand so I have to, I have to try,
and for me I'm like, okay, well, where did God come from?

(38:44):
Who made God?
Well, god didn't have a makerLike I did, so that's that's
number one.
So I and then God's not gonnahave an end like I do, so that's
, that's gonna be a number two.
So now I got to really thinkoutside that comfortable box
that I'm in, because I live in amortal box, in a mortal shell,
and it's hard for me tocomprehend what that eternity is

(39:05):
.
But, that's, that's what I haveto try and do and I have to try
and wrestle with, and I have totry and reconcile in my mind.
But I do know that this can'tbe all that.
There is.
It just it's just.
It just can't.
Is it that, if it was, itdoesn't make any sense how we
live our lives?
Because if, if this, if we alldeep down inside think that the

(39:28):
world is all there is, a fleshand blood is all there is, if
all I have to do is live daytoday, why in the world should I
care about anybody else?
Mm-hmm, why don't I just go andtake whatever I want from
wherever I want?
Right Well you that I'll getpunished.
Right, I get punished.
It was, somebody may kill you.
So what if there ain't nothing?

(39:48):
If there, if there isn'tanything after the endpoint, who
cares?
Right, so I could just dowhatever I want, but I think
somewhere or something justtells us that there has got to
be more than just what we see.
There's got to be more thanjust what we feel.
Otherwise there would be justno purpose in this world.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
I think there's some people that live that way.
Unfortunately, like, even liketoday's, it's exciting.
I just feel like just the yeah,like folks just have no hope.
They feel there's nothing likethe way some people treat like
human lives with, you know,murder and things on those lines
.
That's, that's exactly what'scoming from.

(40:29):
It's those that that feelthere's nothing more.
So they disregard everything.
They disregard, you know,others and People's lives, their
feelings, their emotions.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yes, I think.
Why do they try not to getcaught?
Why, why do?
Why do they try not to getcaught?
Why do they try to hide things?

Speaker 2 (40:48):
They don't want to get punished.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, it's kind of the way well, that's where,
that's where the whole thing isis like there's a right from
wrong aspect, like we all haveMorals to some extent, and so
where did those morals come from?
Like how do we know right fromwrong?
Why do we feel that something'sright, something's wrong, like

(41:11):
that all has to come fromsomewhere.
And we talked about justcreation and the fact that the
way the body works, the waybabies are formed, the way
nature, the Sun, well, thisplays out like there's, there
has to be something.
Things just work and operatetoo perfectly for it to just be

(41:31):
all a coincidence.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Yeah, in my opinion, well, and I think that's becomes
really evident when You're able, like they always say,
hindsight is 2020.
Well, when you're able to lookback, you can there.
I can't even count the numberof times when I thought
something was just terrible andI can look back very clearly now
and go Okay, I see why that hadto happen and how this had to

(41:58):
fall in place or this wouldn'thave happened.
And, like Pierre said, to havethat just be coincidence that
many times over is Too much sofor me.
If nothing else in my lifesolidifies to me my faith, it's
that being able to see, lookback and go Holy cow, like if

(42:20):
that wouldn't have happened,this couldn't have happened, and
so on and so on.
And some of those details areso Intricate that there's no way
like I or another human couldhave formed them that way.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah, I could see that, totally All right.
So God pushes them out of thegarden, right?
And?
And then, because we're doingthis on a, we're doing this
later than normal and it's andit's after dark if I look
outside my window.
I'm going to read Chapter 4,verse 1.
Now the man had relations withhis wife, eve, and she conceived

(42:52):
and gave birth to Cain.
And she said I have Gotten aman child, with the help of the
Lord and against you, gave birthto his brother, abel, and Abel
was the keeper of the flocks andCain was the tiller of the
ground, and that's neat.
And then I mean, like there'sthe first verse, there's the
first verse, that's cool.
Kind of see that that can'tenable, can't even first ones

(43:14):
ever from what we're told.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
What do you mean by that?
Because you're the one thattold me West that there, just
because this is the story wehear, doesn't mean that there
weren't other people rememberthat I.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Do remember that I do leave that door open because,
we don't ever hear of likedaughters being born.
And then we're Did Cain, mary,his sister, did Abel, you know,
did Abel, where they get theirwives from, you know that kind
of stuff, you know.
We started thinking about that.
And then there are other womenin that are introduced.
There are women introduced intothis and it's like where they
get, where they come from, right.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
If you were the person Jesus, Jesus's lineage
yeah, okay, that's, and that'swhat's important.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
That's what the but, that's what the Bible's telling
us about.
It's all leading up to Jesus,right, he?
He is the crimson threadthrough the silver pages of your
Bible.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
West, that was very eloquent.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
I don't know how it came out that clear, but so so
then you know Cain and Abel,their product brothers, you know
, and they, they, they were hada little disputes here and there
, I would imagine somewherealong the way.
But so Cain made an offering,right, abel brought his first

(44:27):
things of his flock, of theirfat portions, and the Lord had
regard for Abel and his Offering.
But Cain and his offering, goddidn't like it.
Cain became very angry and hiscountenance fell.
I never knew what countenancemeant.
Do you guys know that wheneveryou read the Bible Allegedly
here intelligence goes up?
I've read the Bible a lot, Idon't know, I just think.

(44:47):
Just think of how, how dumb Iwas before I started reading the
Bible.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
But His face was downcast.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Okay, well, that's wrong.
It's countenance fell Becauseyou got to look up.
For me.
I had to start looking up, like, what countenance meant, and I
haven't changed Bibles in 25years.
It's the same Bible I've hadforever.
I know where things are on thepages.
I've written notes in here.
I'm just an old-school guy.
I just don't like change.
Okay so, so mine is a newAmerican standard version.

(45:16):
At the time I researched it, itwas.
It was the best version going.
All right, so is it that?
So I got that and it sayscountenance fell.
Well, here's the problem withgetting reading the Bible.
I don't know what worldcountenance means.
So I had to look up whatcountenance was and, like you
said, it was face falling, itwas.
It was his shoulder shrugging,it was just feeling down because
he didn't.
He didn't do right, right.

(45:37):
And Lord said Cain, why are youangry and why has your
countenance fallen?
If you do well, well not, yourcountenance be lifted up.
And if you do not do well, sinis crouching at your door and
the desire is for you.
But you must master it.
I Love that.
You must master sin.
I think about how the Biblerelates some of that stuff with,

(46:00):
with, like James or the firstJohn, first John, how it talks
about how you know people whopractice sin Basically
essentially get good at it.
And people who practicerighteousness get good at it and
and it's it's it takes practice.
It's not something you justroll out of bed.
And if you've been sittingforever, if you've been
practicing unrighteousnessforever, if you've just been

(46:22):
practicing living your own lifeand not having any regard for
anybody else's, it's hard tobreak those habits Because and
you've gotten good at it becauseyou practiced it anything you
practice, you get better at thanwhat you were before.
And if you've been practicingunrighteousness or sin for 30
years, let's say 16.
Maybe maybe people go off thetracks at 16.

(46:44):
I was more like eight.
I was, I was practicing ateight.
So when I was 28 I had beenpracticing for 20 years.
That's a long time ofpracticing Artcraft.
You know it's not, but I wasgood.
I was good.
I can hide it.
I keep it sheltered, even frommy wife.
I keep.

(47:04):
I keep whatever I wanted toaway from her.
She had no idea, right, or atleast she'd never catch me.
I've been so good and I knewhow to hide that stuff.
But I was trying not to be goodat it anymore.
Even during years of Of of, youknow, being married or whatever
, I was trying not to do wronganymore.

(47:26):
It's just I was practicing itand that's what I was used to.
So it was hard to stop and andso I had to start trying to
practice the righteousness partand eventually Practicing
righteousness overcamepracticing unrighteousness and
it was harder to sin.
Then it was to not sin.
Does that make sense?
I mean that I said that right,because because before it was

(47:48):
easier to sin than to not sin,but whenever I kept practicing
it it became easier to not sin.
Oh, it became easier to, yeah,easier to not sin than to sin.
So it, but it took practice.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
I think you see that a lot when, like, folks have
been incarcerated for a longtime, that's what I was gonna
say.
So you got someone that's beenlocked up in jail or prison for
X amount of years and when theythey get released, oftentimes
they don't know how to surviveor how to live out in freedom.

(48:23):
They're so used to jail andjust the routine of you know,
the free meals a day or thefriendships that you built in
there or the bed to lay down on,like perhaps you get free and
you don't have anywhere to go.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Struggle to find a job.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Oftentimes, you know they end up right back into jail
or into prison and you're likewell, is that where their
comfort zone is?
Is that what they'recomfortable with?
Is that what they werepracticing?
That's where they've been for Xamount of years.
They get out here and maybethey don't like it.
Maybe they don't like theirfreedom.

(49:04):
Honestly, they prefer thestructure of knowing what they
do have behind bars and they endup doing something to, sure
enough, get themselves lockedback up.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Maybe they should join the army or Marines or
something.
Can we put them in one of thoseproductive kind of things where
they're fighting?

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Well, I mean, you see so many military vets like,
hang on and, you know, reenlistintentionally, even once they've
served their time, just becausethat's what they're used to.
That's the you know you'reputting your life on the line,
but that's still their comfortzone and that's what people
often revert back to when theydon't know where to go, is they

(49:47):
turn to their comfort zone.
And, you know, is your comfortzone going to be the Bible?
Is it going to be Jesus?
Is it going to be alcohol?
Is it going to be food?
Is it going to be, you know,bad relationships, that comforts
where people tend to turn.
And, like you said, if you'vebeen practicing the good, then
you'll turn to the good.
If you've been practicing thebad, you're going to likely
revert back to those bad habitsbecause that's where your

(50:09):
comfort zone is.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
I think it comes back to you as humans.
Even though the unknown mightbe better, we're more
comfortable staying in the known.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
You're right, and from somebody who's been on both
sides of that fight, I wouldn'thave it any other way of being
on the side of doing good.
Every once in a while during mydays of doing bad, I'd make
somebody happy, right, but Ididn't really mean to, I was

(50:46):
accidental.
Now I make people happy and Ihave a reputation of being kind
of a dependable guy.
I say that I downplay that alittle bit.
I'm a dependable guy.
I have a reputation of being agood dude.
I'll count on me, those kind ofthings and a man of good

(51:08):
reputation Bar, that's priceless.
That is priceless.
But it took years of practiceto do that, and I say years.
The number one thing I ever didwas surround myself with people
who were good been already, youknow or good people.
I surrounded my family withgood people, family people.

(51:29):
I did those things so I couldknow how to do that stuff and
that's how it rubbed off on me.
That's how I learned.
That's how I had to see it inplay.
I had to see it in action.
If I had to do it by myself,going solo, resisting temptation
, resisting Satan, all thosethings, I don't know that I
could ever do it.
I tried at a time or two.
I tried all by myself.
I just didn't have the strength, I didn't have the willpower.

(51:50):
I needed a support group inorder to help me be able to push
me through those times withoutthem even knowing that they were
pushing me through there.
They didn't have to push likefrom behind me.
I was digging in my heels andnot wanting to go anywhere, but
I just made it.
I see how their family unitworked.
I saw how I thought of them andI was like man, I'd love to be

(52:11):
that way someday.
Now, I'm not a real deepthinker, so I didn't really go
home at night and think, boy, Iwant to be like that person.
I didn't think that, but I justknew that's what I wanted to be
.
You know, I just knew that'swhere I wanted to go, without
even really ever thinking aboutit.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Well, and I think that's smart because, you know,
I grew up hearing all the timeyou know our product of your
environment, so you recognizedthat you needed to surround
yourself in a differentenvironment to become like that,
and so kudos to you, Wes.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
And if you don't know how to do something, what's the
old saying If you don't knowhow to do something, surround
yourself with smart people whoknow how to do it Right, and
that's how you get there towherever you want to go, and
that's a successful businessmanknow how to do that kind of
stuff.
And so it's just one of those.
And look, not kudos to me.
I had lucked into it, but youguys have know me enough now
that it's not really luck.

(53:02):
God had a providential hand onme even when I was trying to
learn how to drive a GMC big,big Chevy wagon or something,
whatever it was.
I was a van at age eight orseventh grade, whatever it was
just had a protective hand on me.
It just wasn't my time yet.
So it's not my time All right.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
So one thing really quickly I thought about when you
were talking is the job that Istarted when Pierre and I
actually where Pierre and Iactually ended up meeting.
When I started that job, Ineeded to learn very quickly and
I didn't know what I didn'tknow.
I didn't know the questions toask to gain the knowledge.

(53:42):
So I actually ended up settingup a card table in between the
desks at the end of a rowbetween two of my coworkers who
had been there the longest, justso I could absorb and hear what
they were talking about, whatinformation they were giving out
, when people would come backand ask questions, or what they
were talking about amongstthemselves or working.

(54:03):
And that was the quickest andeasiest way for me to learn,
because I had no idea what toask.
And I think what you describedis along those same lines, like
if you surround yourself withthat, you just naturally absorb
and you learn, and so I thinkthat's important.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I do too.
I do too.
Surround yourself with goodpeople.
Be easier to put on the armorof God.
Cain told Abel his brother andit came about when they were in
the field that Cain rose upagainst Abel, his brother and
killed him.
And Lord said to Cain where isAbel, your brother?
And he said I don't know.
Am I my brother's keeper?
And God said what have you done?

(54:42):
The voice of your brother'sblood is crying to me from the
ground.
And now you are cursed from theground, which has opened up its
mouth to receive your brother'sblood from your hand.
And you cultivate the ground.
It shall no longer yield itsstrength to you.
You shall be a vagrant and awanderer on earth.
And then Cain cried out mypunishment's too.
Great Behold, the Lord hasdriven me from this day, from
the face of the ground.
And he goes on, and then hetries to be like a tough guy.

(55:05):
I guess in all this.
This is the way I kind of seethis, pierre and Michelle,
because the Lord said to himthen therefore, whoever kills
Cain because Cain said it'llcome about, whoever finds me
will kill me is what's going toend up happening.
And the Lord said therefore,whoever kills Cain.
Who is God talking to?
From my recollection now,there's only two people left

(55:27):
besides Cain.
Right From what we know is now,it's just Adam and Eve, unless
they had more offspring than weweren't told about, right.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
It's those other people you were talking about
with.
There's gotta be.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
There's gotta be, the Lord, said to him.
Therefore, whoever kills Cain,vengeance will be taken on him
seven fold, and then appointed asign of Cain, lest anyone
finding him should say to himand then goes on a little bit.
So, pierre.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Do you ever stay up at night wondering why you have
the color skin you have?

Speaker 3 (56:05):
No no.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
For those that don't know, Pierre is a black man.
Is that politically correct?
I don't know what's politicallycorrect anymore.
Did I say it right?

Speaker 3 (56:14):
That's fine.
I answered a black man.
I'm not from Africa myself, soI don't speak African American,
but I mean it doesn't bother me.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
either way, the color of Pierre's skin is darkened.
Is that?
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
It's like milk chocolate.
It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
Oh, come on, that's Michelle.
Come on, this is a child'spodcast, but this is one of the.
I had a guy one time that Iworked with and he was a
reputable man, he's a very smartguy and stuff like that and he
said do you know where blackpeople came from?
And I said no, I didn't knowhow to answer that either,

(56:52):
because he was a black guy andhe's bigger than me, so I was
kind of scared of what was goingto end up happening.
And he said what story of Kane?
I said what about it?
He said the mark and then hewent on to talk about it and I
was like, oh okay, All right,and that was kind of cool to
hear that too.
Maybe that's where this firstdistinction came from in

(57:13):
people's skin colors.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Yeah, maybe potentially, I don't know about
that.
but I see what part you'retalking about.
But is it right?
Because I know you can go backto which we're not here yet.
But I know oftentimes I hearthe split between Ishmael and

(57:37):
Isaac.
You know, I've heard that aswell when it came to Hagar and
that kind of being.
You know the split when it cameto race as well.
But one thing that kind ofjumps out here, like we listen
to a lot of music and so we'retalking about, you know, kane
and Abel.
I know there's one.

(57:58):
There's one part of us somecall it Cray, some by La Cray
where he says they say don't getbitter, get better.
I'm working on switching thoseletters.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
And that's what it felt like just with Kane, like
he killed his brother out ofbitterness.
And I think about all thethings that we kind of do out of
bitterness and just how muchbitterness can cause regret in
the moment.
And I mean, I even think oftimes where I've just been

(58:33):
bitter and you know, obviously Ididn't act on it, thankfully.
But you know, losing losinglike both parents and all those
things, and you kind of witnessother people either bat-mouthing
their parents or talking badabout their parents.
I know everyone doesn't have thesame type of relationship with
their parents but there caneasily be bitterness.

(58:54):
I know Michelle, you know feltit some after you know the
miscarriage, where she hearspeople, you know, can't wait to
get rid of this baby and outsidesmoking while being pregnant.
There's a bitterness there andI think Kane definitely had that
bitterness himself that hisfruits that he, you know,

(59:14):
basically brought to the Lord,weren't as fruitful as what his
brother brought and he let thatbitterness kind of overtake him
and I think do something that heregret it and you know he's,
he's cursed, he gets cursed forit.
So think about the times we'vegot better like that.

(59:36):
We get cursed for some of ourbitterness and who knows who
knows those situations.
But I think it's right here inthe Bible you're four chapters
in and you see jealousy andbitterness right up front.
If you know you're, you'reflesh and blood and I think it's
really a warning to not letbitterness kind of overcome you

(59:57):
because easily they could haveworked together.
Abel was willing, you know, togo out to the field and help him
, you know, bring those samesacrifices that he brought so he
could be in favor with the Lordhimself, and he let bitterness
overcome.
So that's, I think that's, thelesson for us all to to just be
careful with bitterness, causein those bitter moments you can.

(01:00:18):
You can have a lifelong regret.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
And God appointed a sign on Cain, for anyone finding
him should slain him.
So they won't slay him.
And Cain went out from thepresence of the Lord and settled
in the Land of Nod, east ofWheaton.
And Cain had relations with hiswife and she conceived and gave
birth to Enic and he built acity called the name of the city
Enic after the name of his son.
And then he goes on to talkabout the genealogy there of

(01:00:46):
Cain.
A little bit Enic had Mahujala,mahujala, cain father, and
Mathu'sala, and Mathu'sala andAmic.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
Chronicles is the worst, by the way.
So I started.
I started Chronicles firstChronicles.
Oh my goodness, I told you Istruggled with the names, or the
names.
Oh my goodness, it has been anobstacle, sorry, sorry to
interrupt but that's just.
I started having flashbacks toChronicles.
I finally got out of thegenealogy portion of whoo.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
What you?
You're getting downhill now,man, you're getting downhill now
.
So if you're going toChronicles, you're making it
through it.
But I say those names becauseyou got books of Enics running
around and stuff like that tooand everything.
And then you got a Laimic here,and Laimic will be mentioned
later on in the Bible a coupleof times and these people have
different jobs, that kind oflook like.

(01:01:39):
Laimic took to himself two wives.
The name of the one was Ada andthe name of the other one was
Zilla, and Ada gave birth toJ-Ball and he was the father of
those who dwell in tents andhave livestock, and his
brother's name was Jubal and hewas the father of those who play
the leer in pipe.
And Zilla she gave birth toTubalcain, and then I've always

(01:02:00):
liked that name.
I'm not going to name my sonTubalcain, but you know if
Tubalcain, the forger ofimplements and bronze and iron,
and the sister of Tubalcain wasNama, nama.
And then Laimic said like ifanybody kills me, let punishment
be on me 10 times or whateverhe says there, I don't even know
70 times, seven fold, 77 foldof what happens to Cain.

(01:02:22):
So he was kind of trying tomake himself bigger than Cain.
You know just all that stuff.
But here's the important part.
Adam had relations with hiswife again, not that part, I'm
not talking about that.
She gave birth to a son.
His name was Seth.
For she said God has appointedto me another offspring in place
of Abel, for Cain killed himand a Seth.

(01:02:45):
To him also came a son who wasborn, and his name was Enish.
Then men began to call upon thename of the Lord.
That's something right there.
We get that there.
Call upon the name of the Lord.
Are they praying to him?
Are they calling on him?
I mean, I'm just gonna put itin my terminology where they
make a phone call, you knowthey're not texting him.

(01:03:07):
Probably I wouldn't think, eventhough maybe they did to some
degree.
Maybe they wrote hieroglyphicsto God, I don't know what they
did, but they started calling on, they started praying on them,
they started singing worship,whatever it was.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Mindsets to proclaim the name of the.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Lord, I like mine better.
I'll be honest, Michelle, asyou.
You're not impressing me withyour Bible verse.
No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
It says to call on, but then it gives you like the
footnote and it says or toproclaim Well, it's not even
different.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
It says at this time, men first made use of the name
of the Lord and worship.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
There you go and that's what it is.
And why do we have all thesedifferent versions?
Well, I have one that was from20 years ago, however long it's
been, and you guys got ones thatare newer, and I have some that
are newer.
It's just, once again, theseare.
This is the one that I like,but this is the important part.
Luke, chapter three.
I say it's important, it's whatI feel is important.

(01:04:07):
Luke, chapter three, startingverse 23,.
It's the genealogy of Jesus,again y'all, and I'm not gonna
go through it, but I just wannaread the last verse here, a
verse of chapter three, verse 38.
Says the son of Enish, the sonof Seth, the son of Adam, the

(01:04:29):
son of God.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
It traces Jesus' genealogy all the way back to
the son of God and it startsfrom what we're talking about
now.
And you wonder why those namesare important.
I'm not gonna say they'reimportant.
Important they're not a matterof life and death, they're not a
part of your salvation, butthey are a part of your
salvation because it's a part ofyour history as well.

(01:04:53):
If you're a believer in ourFather, our brother, lord and
Savior, jesus Christ, becauseyou've been adopted into that
family, you are part of thatfamily story, which for me it's
kind of cool and I hope it'skind of cool for whoever as well
.

(01:05:13):
But, as we talked about before,from Matthew, chapter one, that
story is tainted.
That story's got a lot ofdifferent things.
People don't need to feel likethey're unworthy to be a part of
that story If you're a part ofAdam's family.
His family was kind of brokenat some point.
He didn't do everything rightas a father maybe.

(01:05:35):
Evidently.
I mean we see him eating fromthe tree.
We see his wife eating from thetree.
We see his firstborn childrenhaving a dispute to where one
killed the other.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
You can even argue that if that didn't happen, then
Seth didn't come into play.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
No, you're right, and here's the part of that, pierre
.
I think Bible tells us Godworks all things together for
them that love the Lord.
Okay, my kids are having adispute in the background, by
the way, I apologize for that.
God says the Bible says Godworks all things together for

(01:06:22):
them that love the Lord.
Don't leave off the back partof that for them that love the
Lord.
Adam apparently loved the Lord.
Men started calling upon God'sname.
Then is what we read about inGenesis, chapter four.
So Seth loved the Lord, thosepeople love the Lord, and so God

(01:06:45):
worked it all out to where itgot, to where the point is right
now, today, that we could be apart of that family.
The purpose, the plan Cainwasn't going to mess up that
plan.
The Satan wasn't going to messup that plan, because God has a
plan and no matter how manytimes we stumble, we tumble, we
fall, we get back up, he's goingto work that plan out for good.

(01:07:08):
If we continue to love him andthat's the practicing part we
continue to practice to love him, to let him work it out we make
the next best decision.
If we mess up, what's the nextbest decision?
Well, god told Cain.
God told Adam that now you'regoing to have to work the ground

(01:07:30):
right.
Told Cain, you're going to haveto work the ground.
Cain didn't like it, so Caindidn't make the best decision.
Cain didn't make the bestdecision.
Cain made a bad decision and hepiled a bad decision on top of
another bad decision on top ofanother bad decision right and
got the family history that hehas.
Adam made the next bestdecision and he kept piling on

(01:07:55):
those best decisions, eventhough maybe he made some wrong
ones along the way.
He kept loving the Lord andtrying to do right and it got to
Seth.
And then we take off from there.
That's how.
I was wrapping it up, guys,that's it, that's it, that's all
I got.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
I think you did a great job.
It makes perfect sense and yousee it throughout the Bible.
Like people make mistakes, kingDavid makes mistakes, but his
love for the Lord doesn't falter.
He turns back in.
Lord is always there with openarms, willing to work things out
for your good.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
But God that's right, we will pick up I don't know
where we're going Jumping overto the New Testament made next
time.
Hopefully we'll have thequestion, the question episode
between all that.
That'd be so cool if we do it,and who knows, something may
happen along the way where wedon't have to stick to a plan.
We're gonna leave room for Godto be able to work things out in
whatever direction he wants usto take at this podcast, because

(01:08:53):
this podcast was dedicated tohim to start with, and so that's
why we're trying to dedicate itto him always.
So that's what we're gonna do,right, guys?
Amen, oh right, hey, pierre,tell everybody where they can
find it again, because that wasat least 30 minutes ago and I'm
not gonna remember where all thefinding faith, that losing
sleep at gmailcom is, all thatstuff is.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
There you go.
Findingfafelosingsleep atgmailcom.
If you would like to email usalso on Twitter, slash ex at
findingfafepod.
You can find me personally onTwitter at pwe31.
You can find Michelle atgopacgo411.
And Mike Weck at loafinit onTwitter as well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Oh yeah, I appreciate you guys so very much, Not only
Pierre and Michelle, but alsoall the listeners.
We look forward to hearing thequestions that you have or any
kind of reviews, and you'd liketo leave some kind of comments
with some questions in there.
We do appreciate that as well.
We always love to hear from you.
But, more importantly than that, you guys pray for us and we
will pray for you and we'll seeyou guys next time.