March 1, 2024 • 54 mins
Ever found yourself in a serendipitous moment that shifted your perspective on faith? Together, we share such a story of an unplanned church visit that blossomed into a profound conversation about authenticity in faith. This episode of Finding Faith and Losing Sleep takes you on a journey through the complexities and beauty of living a life aligned with Christ's teachings, despite encountering hypocrisy and judgment within the church itself.
Expect a blend of humor and depth as we traverse topics like the struggles of standing up for personal convictions and the art of shining your own light without blinding others. Our discussions delve into the essence of modern evangelism, the challenges of being a guiding light in the darkness, and how Jesus navigated his relationships with the outcasts of society. We challenge you to consider how to emulate this inclusivity, drawing on personal anecdotes and biblical references to spark a purposeful conversation on living in love.
Let's talk action, not just contemplation. We encourage you to engage, to reach out with your stories, queries, and reflections as we navigate this shared, sometimes Lego-strewn path of growth and understanding in faith. So whether you're here for the heart-to-heart discussions or the spiritual musings, this episode promises to be a candid look at what it means to faithfully walk through the rigors of everyday life. Join us, and let's explore the transformative power of these everyday faith conversations together.
Email: findingfaith.losingsleep@gmail.com
Twitter: @FindingFaithPod
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
It's time to wake up and pray up here.
On the Fighting Faith andLosing Sleep podcast, I am, wes
Easley, one of your hosts, andof course, I am always joined on
this podcast by Michelle and byPierre, a married couple from
up north.
I am from down south, so thatmakes me a southerner.
That makes them a Yankee,pierre, michelle.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
guys know that you're Yankees.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
You could have said northerner, I mean, it would
have still fit.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well, that's true it could have, but I've always
liked the term Yankee and Idon't mind being called.
I would say that I don't likebeing called a hillbilly, but
there's a little party or melike a redneck or something.
I don't mind being called thata little bit.
That means I'm out in the sun,that means I'm working, that
means I'm doing things out inthe yard a lot, and I think
that's where the terminologycomes from.
(00:52):
From a redneck standpoint.
I'm not sure where Yankee camefrom.
I'd have to Google that inorder to find out where Yankee
derives from.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm not sure I know the New York Yankees.
I remember singing YankeeDoodle as a kid and that's about
it.
I do like how you clarifiedthat we're not always with you.
You started with that.
They're always with me andyou're always with me on the
podcast.
So thanks for clarifying so wedon't come off as creepers.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, we're just in your little pocket.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'm always wondering where you are and I have a
Michelle that appeared in mypocket Lock it in my pocket.
Hey, but you are joining us hereand we are a podcast just made
for everyday people talkingabout everyday things.
Sometimes it's controversial,sometimes it's not.
We're trying to live our livesthe best way that we possibly
can, because at what point inour lives we were all lost.
Here, michelle and myself Icould speak for all three of us.
(01:44):
We were all lost, but then wewere found.
We found a way that made ourlives a little bit better, and
so we try to share that withothers, and we do that.
One of the ways is through apodcast form, pierre, something
that you came up with, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I just wanted to talk through life and we're in a
couple of live groups ourselvesat least I'm in a couple, we
lead one and just goodconversations that take place
that make you really think aboutyour faith, about the Bible and
just about life itself.
And I thought why not do thisin front of a microphone, as if
(02:18):
we're having these conversations, if we're struggling with it,
and what's going to stop others?
They're probably going throughthe same thing, so let's talk it
through and perhaps reach outto at least one person, and I
think we've done that by now, soI guess we're targeting one
more.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
And a big shout out to all of our friends in Jordan,
isn't that, pierre?
You told me that we are highlyright that Jordan is.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
That's amazing.
Yeah, I got a notification.
So Charitable is basically likea ranking website.
They rank podcasts throughApple to Spotify, to a bunch of
others, and all of a sudden Igot an email alert.
I still check the emails lessand basically congratulations,
you know, you're ranked inJordan and I'm like, okay, we're
probably 100 or something and Ilooked for like 23,.
(03:01):
I'm like whoa, I mean we're nineand you know the Bible Recap
was number one.
I think Girls Gone Bible wasnumber two really popular
podcast.
So to be in the top 25 was justspectacular.
So thanks to our listeners overin the country of Jordan and I
guess you said we were up tonine.
Apparently it gives me like atracker we were at rank nine at
(03:23):
some point and our episode 22actually got as high as number
three over there, so that's justspectacular.
So heartfelt thanks towhoever's listening over in the
country of Jordan.
We appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
And it was so funny.
Pierre brings his phone in toshow me I was working and he
opens the door and he like holdshis phone out and he shows me
and I was like okay, and I waslike whoa, we're ranked.
Really, I was like who's Jordan?
And then I was like wait, youmean like as in the country?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And I hope one of the things, one of the reasons why
is because we do try to keepeverything in somewhat layman's
terms, I think, is how theshow's been described before,
where we're not necessarilytrying to be theologians we try
to talk about the Bible, we tryto talk about Christ like things
, we try to talk about thosecircumstances in life that
pertain to the Bible and gleanwisdom from Scripture.
(04:13):
I guess is what we try to do,michelle, and so I'm glad and I
hope that that's kind of theeffect of it all.
But, pierre, you and I weretexting each other I don't know
if that's what we call it or notwhenever we do it on the X
platform.
How would people get ahold ofus over there on X?
How would they follow the show?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's at Finding Faith .
Pot is our handle over there,and then we also have an email
findingfafelosingsleepatgmailcom.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So if people wanted to get in touch with us and they
can kind of text you towardsthose by using that email and
using the X thing, I was doingit on the X platform as well
with you and then all of asudden our little text message
stuff started.
It took a right turn and aright turn down.
Uh, oh, lane is what I wouldcall it, pierre, I don't know,
because it became very I don'twant to say heated.
(05:00):
It wasn't heated, we weren'targuing, but we just have this
kind of ongoing conversationabout a couple of things and you
just I could feel the passionwhen you were pushing the
buttons to make this textmessage on X go through to me
and I thought, boy, that'ssomething we got to talk about
on the show and you were rightthere for it as well.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, I mean we touched on a variety of topics.
We had talked, you know,divorce, we mentioned some of
the homosexuality stuff, andreally what I was passionate
about was just, you know whatthis episode is probably going
to be about, and that's justbeing more Christ-like.
I just feel like it lacksamongst a lot of so-called
(05:41):
Christians.
But I think that even falls onus at times.
There's times where I'm not theman I want to be in my own
household or outside in theworld, and you know, that's
something I feel like we reallyshould be more passionate about.
You know, we have theseconversations about, you know,
who we are and how we're changed, but we don't always, you know,
present that person to others.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
My biggest question.
I don't know which one of youtwo are wordsmith, because I'm
definitely not a wordsmith.
How do you spell Christ-like?
Is that one word?
Is it two words, with a littlehyphen in the middle of it?
What do you spell?
How do you?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
spell Christ-like.
I've always seen it with ahyphen.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah same here.
All right, well, I just had toput that to rest in my mind.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So, even so, really cool story, as we kind of go
into this.
So, as the listeners know, asyou know, wes, we have a life
that we run and we meet onThursday.
So we're usually meetingactually right now, in this
moment, but we have someschedule conflicts that we met
last night and maybe halfwaythrough, as we're Well, first of
(06:46):
all, it was truly last minutethat we met last night.
Yeah, yeah.
So maybe halfway throughthere's this couple that shows
up and they just kind of walk inthe church for a moment and
they come over to us, they graba seat and they kind of just
pull up a chair and ask if theycan listen.
We're like sure, yeah, ask themif.
Michelle, you stated we meet onThursdays and last like minute
(07:07):
decided, hey, let's just dotonight, let's do Wednesday
night.
Most people can be there.
So I sent out a little groupmessage to everyone saying, hey,
we're just going to meettonight at the church, so meet
us there.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Okay now time out.
Let me Can I call time out.
Just make sure that this is allset up right.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
You can't ask, you've already done it, so time out it
is.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Let me make sure this is set up well, and we did not
talk about this before the show,just put it out there for the
listeners we talked about.
We did the text thing on to Xlast week and so we've been
planning for the episode hereand we were going to record.
I think last night is when werecorded record and then you two
canceled on me, of course, butno and you said our live group
(07:50):
is going to meet on Wednesdaynight instead of Thursday night,
so can we change it to tomorrownight?
And of course we could.
That was fine, but this is allsomething that we talk about on
the show where it's beyond ourcontrol, right?
And I tell you guys that I tryto not worry about those things
that are beyond my control,because when it's beyond my
(08:12):
control, I try to go okay, god,you're controlling this.
What's my part in all of this?
Let me just I'm going to gowith the flow, I'm going to look
for what your desires are andI'm going to try to carry out
whatever your wishes are throughmy little hands.
That's kind of how things go inmy life and that's how I try to
go with the flow and not stressout about things, not worry
(08:33):
about things, and the podcast isone of those instances as well,
especially when you try torecord with people who are all
over the United States, like wedo at times.
So that's how the story is.
So you guys go there Lastminute, you're holding your
class on a different night, andthen these people walk in.
So this is getting juicy.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Yeah, and we're halfway through.
We were halfway through ourmeeting.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, then came in late.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, oh way late.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, and so they just pull up and share their ass
.
They can listen to lecture, andI initially thought it was a
new member from last weekbecause I didn't get to go last
week.
But the way Michelle waslooking at me I'm like no, she
doesn't know who these twopeople are.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
You guys really should lock the church doors, by
the way.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
We should have, but I'm glad we did.
I'm glad we didn't either.
So finally, time in.
They are from Portland, oregon,where they came out, and they
just moved to Indiana inDecember, just started attending
the church and I know thehusband was 61 years old and he
(09:39):
finally started to talk and hebasically dove into the fact
that his wife saved his life.
He was at a point where he wasfacing opioids that he was
dealing with and just otherthings that he was battling in
life in he felt God brought hisnow wife into his life and he
(10:03):
shared some stuff on it His sonthat had passed away and it was
just really, really heartwarming.
And so we're like wow, andwe're getting the tissues out.
People are crying.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Oh, I know Michelle's crying.
I know Michelle's crying.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Watch it.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Wes.
This couple is just sharingtheir story to our group and
we're all new to them.
And they're like, yeah, likethis is like a date for us, you
know, like a date.
It's like, yeah, you know,church is a date.
You show up and you dress upnice and you hear good music,
you may get to dance.
And we're like, okay, well,what led you here?
And I was like, well, we weretold that there was a Bible
(10:38):
study here tonight.
We got an alert and I'm like,okay, that's great, but we don't
meet on Thursdays.
We're not that Bible study.
That's not us.
We didn't send out that order.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
And there wasn't one.
I mean, there was a women'sgroup that was meeting, but
there was not a Bible study.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So and this was their first attempt at just trying
Like we wanna go to the church.
We saw there were cars here.
Something told us to come onthis night and here you are.
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Something told us meeting the alert right.
What's that Something told usto come on this night meeting
the alerts right.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, the alert is about first Wednesday, which is
the first Wednesday of eachmonth, which is actually next
week, yeah.
But yeah, they show up andwe're like, yeah, we don't
usually meet on this night, butwe happen to be here tonight.
You happen to show up, we havethis connection and really good
conversation.
It was just really super cool.
But how that ties in is so.
(11:40):
The husband multiple times gaveus a reason why he's trying to
continue to get better, and whathe kept saying was I just wanna
be more Christ-like.
No, and I looked at Michelleand we knew what the topic was
gonna be on this.
So the fact that this coupleshows up to the church on a
(12:04):
night that we don't usually meetto our live group shares their
story, and her husband's focuswas to just be more Christ-like
is how he wants to kind of moveforward on.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I can even count the number of times he said that
either.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
He's y'all dropping to me One of those coincidental
accidentals right, I think Ijust termed up a phrase there
Coincidental, accidental sayswhat that is.
That's very, very unique andit's great to see how things
like that work in our lives.
And I don't get shocked by thatstuff anymore.
(12:38):
I don't get amazed by itanymore.
I do to some degree, you know,like I'm like, well, that's cool
, you know, but at the same timeI'm not like, yeah, you're just
.
I always think that Godsometimes just enjoys playing
with me a little bit, you know,toying with me and having fun
like that.
So that's a cool story, that'sa great story.
That's a great story.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's pretty hard.
I couldn't stop thinking aboutit.
I got home and I'm like weweren't supposed to be there,
like we don't meet that night,and he kept talking about being
Christ-like.
That's what we were alreadytalking about in our pot.
It was just-.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Well, and you talked about you need to lock the doors
.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Typically, the doors are locked Like yeah everybody
gets in and we lock the doorsusually, but I didn't know like
there was a women's group takingplace, I didn't know if they
could get in, so I just left itunlocked and sure enough-.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
So another anomaly A couple comes in and finds us.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
FYI, what we do at our church whenever we have
meetings like that on thosenights, is we have a man
stationed at a door, or maybetwo doors, even that people
usually come in.
So we just we have security,which is one of our own men that
stand at the door just to kindof give a presence there.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
And the door is locked.
We just give a presence tounlock the door.
Well, we'll keep people out,but at the same time.
So a cool story.
Now that has a little bit oframification to what we were
texting about or DMing about.
I'm gonna go-.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You were texting.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, we just say texting.
I'm just gonna say texting isthe same thing.
But we were texting aboutPierre and you were passionate
because it seemed like somebodywas doing somebody wrong.
The conversation was somebodydoing something wrong.
That's what I remember of it.
I have a short memory and Idon't remember a lot of things.
I just remember, like mesending you a video, and it was
(14:25):
a video of a debate betweenBarack Obama and somebody that
he was running against.
Whenever it was back inIllinois times too.
I mean, it was in the 90s atsome point, I don't even know,
it could have been 2000s, Idon't know, but before he was
president, it was silly.
When he was, I think it wasSenator in Illinois and you just
(14:47):
went off on the tangent and Iwas like holy cow.
I didn't mean to open up a canof worms there, but I did.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, I don't remember that topic, but yeah,
you caught me at a unique timeand I remember the video and I'm
just like I feel like this is aconversation we have to have
because, again, I feel likethere's a lot of people that
claim to be something that theydon't necessarily portray in
(15:16):
their real life, and I meanwe'll just say Christians Like.
I feel like there are timesthat Christians, which the first
part of that is Christ, aren'tChrist like, and I think it's a
good topic because I know I fallinto this bucket myself at
times in life.
But we talked about otherepisodes.
(15:37):
I really feel like one of thebigger turnoffs for those trying
to find faith or interested intheir faith and growing.
That is how those prove thosethat claim to be in the church,
claim to be loving, claim to belike Christ or are far from it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
All right.
So it's kind of like it's yourattitude, right, it's our
attitudes, not only ourattitudes towards those who are
in the church, but also thosewho are outside of the church.
And what are we gonna do withthose attitudes?
And let me ask you guys thisMichelle, maybe I'll direct this
question over to you Does itdepend on how that person is
(16:24):
reacting?
Let's say, we run up onsomebody out there in the
streets out and we're shoppingat Walmart or something like
that.
We run into somebody andthey're just not acting very
nicely.
Is it up to them to be able tobring the Christ-like out in us,
or do we just need to exhibitthat towards them, regardless of
how they're acting?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I think it's that we need to do it, regardless of how
they're acting.
And here's the thing.
Let me just preface all of thisby saying, first of all, I have
no idea what the two of youwere talking about, so this is
gonna be really interesting.
Pierre and I talked the most onthis podcast, but one thing
that I do wanna interject reallyquickly is that, based on what
(17:10):
Pierre just said, I will saythat the reason that, as far as
I understand it cause I wasyoung, but the reason that I've
always been told that we stoppedgoing to church when I was a
child, is because my dad and momgot really fed up and
(17:30):
frustrated with the hypocrisythat they were witnessing, like
if somebody came in not dressedto the nines and hearing people
talk about look what they woreto church and look who's here
and why are they here.
And I think we've talked aboutthat, we've touched on that
before that church should be foreveryone, and that's the point.
(17:55):
It's for the sinners and thepoor and the broken, and it's
not a place for perfect people,because none of us are perfect.
But, to answer your question,unless I think that it is our
duty to act Christ-like nomatter how someone is acting.
(18:16):
We need to still show grace andlove, and that is not the
easiest and I will say I toofailed that and I hate that.
I do, and sometimes I beatmyself up over it, and even not
just in public but in private,like even my interactions with
my daughter or with my mom anddad, or with Pierre or my
(18:37):
siblings.
It's tough.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So I remember when, before I became a Christian,
you'd have to catch me.
I was always a people pleaser,I guess, but you'd have to catch
me on a good day in order to,like, go out of my way to help
you.
I would just assume, knock anold lady down and take her
wallet instead of helping heracross the road.
(19:01):
You know what I mean.
It was one of those thingswhere I was a people pleaser
whenever I was working.
But if I wasn't working I neverfound a way to.
I never looked for any way tohelp somebody outside of being
at work and being an employee atsome place.
You know, that just wasn't whatI did.
I was always to myself, Ialways kept to myself and I just
(19:23):
I didn't want anybody to bug meand I didn't want to bug
anybody.
And that was kind of Yankee inme.
You know, Now that I'm asoutherner, I feel like I'm
always trying to be helpful alittle bit more.
Maybe I've been taught a littlebit better than what I was
taught up North.
But also as a Christian, I kindof take that work ethic with me
always wherever I go, at alltimes.
(19:44):
Now, that doesn't mean I'mperfect all the time, but I
would like to think that I'mnever rude or beyond rude.
Maybe I am and I don't know it.
Maybe I cut off somebodyaccidentally trying to get to
something that I want to get to,but I don't think I am.
I think I try to make sure thatI'm always yielding to people
and allowing them to go in frontof me and stuff like that.
If I'm in a store, but I thinkdown here, I'm always or now
(20:09):
anyway in my life I'm alwayshaving that same attitude of I'm
on the clock for God, I'malways working for Him, so I'm
always trying to find ways tohelp out others along the way,
if that makes any sense to you.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
I think that's a great way to put it, that you're
on the clock.
I mean, have that mentality.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Now I was gonna say, pierre, that doesn't always mean
I agree with everybody and howthey are acting, you know, but
that doesn't mean I treat themany.
That doesn't mean I treat thembadly because of how they're
acting.
That doesn't mean I treat thembadly, pierre, because of how
they're dressed or maybe howthey speak.
It doesn't mean that I treatthem or go out of my way to
(20:54):
treat them rough, and actually Ilook for ways to encounter them
, to somehow try and shine alight in their life that I think
needs to be shined, becausemaybe they are just in a dark
place.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, I think the balance of what that looks like
is where the struggle is.
So, like a part of ourconversation I know we talked
about Michelle's been divorcedbefore.
There's a couple in one of mylife groups that that's the case
.
Like the same situation, thewife's been divorced before and
(21:31):
remarried to who her husband isnow and their previous church
kicked them out.
They knew she was married, theyknew her previous husband and
they knew that who she wasmarried to now was not that
previous husband, so theyrespectfully asked them not to
attend their church anymore.
(21:53):
When you think about what thechurch should be, how is that
Christ like?
How do you reach those people?
I think part of ourconversation on Twitter slash X
with the DM was a note that cameto me from someone in the
(22:14):
homosexual community and theirthoughts on Christians.
They said that the meanest,most narrow-minded people that
they've ever encountered allhave one thing in common they're
Christian, and they made thenote that most Christians play
the role of Pharisees ratherthan Christ.
This was someone that also grewup in church, et cetera.
(22:38):
I won't go into that wholeconversation, but just reading
that you have to think.
So how do we get to this pointand how do we fix it?
And I'm not necessarily sayingyou have to accept certain
lifestyles, but how do you notcome across as the meanest and
(22:59):
cruelest to something that youmight just disagree with?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Well, and Pierre and I did have this conversation
because he showed me the textand my reaction was the first
thing I said was that's reallysad that we're not, as a
Christian community, not lovingand acting like Jesus, because
Jesus was not here with thePharisees, he was here with the
(23:27):
sinners, the broken.
They're rejected, and he lovedthem.
In spite of that and the secondpart of that was I also and if
I'm really brutally honest, Ireally struggle with where is
that line?
Because I also believe thatwe're supposed to hold up what
the Bible says.
And so, as a Christian, whereis the line between holding the
(23:53):
line of what the Bible saysversus being loving?
And I think that's the key is,we are first called to love and
be like Jesus, and if we gobeyond that, it's a judgment
thing and it's not for us tojudge.
However, this is where Ipersonally struggle, like how do
(24:18):
you stand up for your beliefs?
I mean, I don't know.
I hope you know what I'm tryingto get across here Like there
is a line there that's a grayarea, and that's where I
struggle, as just a human beingis always in that gray area,
whether it's in my walk with Godor in work Whenever there's a
(24:38):
line that's kind of shaded.
I like to be in control ofthings.
That's just who I am, and so Istruggle when it's outside of my
comfort zone and it is in thatgray area.
So I hope I explained that wellenough.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
But it's a great conversation that we're having
right now.
It takes it takes us a littlebit to get warmed up, it feels
like, but we're having a greatconversation right now.
Let me, let me.
I'm going to go over to 1stJohn, chapter two.
Okay, my little children, I amwriting these things to you that
you may not sin and if anyonesins, we have an advocate with
(25:16):
the Father, Jesus Christ, therighteous, and he himself is the
propitiation for our sins.
The only reason why I want toread that is because
propitiation was like the firstbig word I ever learned in the
church and I just love sayingthe word propitiation, Isn't
that?
It's a cool word.
It sounds cool, doesn't it?
It's fun.
Yeah, it was a propitiation forus.
That means that means he's theone you know, he's the gift for
(25:39):
our sins, he's how he.
So if I ever needed apropitiation with my wife, some
people would bring my wife ifshe was angry at me or whatever.
Some people would bring theirwives like a dozen roses.
Well, that would be apropitiation for your sins
against your wife.
Right, here's the dozen roses.
Take this on behalf of my sins.
I am sorry for what I've done.
(26:00):
Right, For me, it was a dozendonuts.
If I got a dozen donuts insteadof a dozen roses, I was in man.
That was a good smooth move.
Can I please have a dozenpropitiation donuts please?
Is that what I need to bringhome to my wife?
But so Christ was thatpropitiation to God.
He says here, I am theiroffering.
(26:21):
I am what is standing betweenyou and their sins.
I'm giving myself up for theirsins.
So he was the dozen donuts.
I don't believe that that hasever been done before saying
that Jesus was a dozen donuts.
But you guys understand whatI'm saying.
Please take that in context, Iguess.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
He had me Krispy Kreme, because those are the
best.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
He was hot Krispy Kreme.
He was hot Krispy Kreme, a lifeof fun.
Literally.
Yes, there you go.
He himself is the propitiationfor our sins, and not for ours
only, but also for those who arethe whole world.
And by this we know that wehave come to know him if we keep
his commandments.
The one who says I have come toknow him and does not keep his
commandments as a liar and thetruth is not in him.
(27:07):
It's going to get good here ina second.
I got to read verse five,though.
But whoever keeps his word inhim, the love of God is truly
been perfected.
By this we know that we are inhim.
Now the perfected part.
I think we're all a work inprogress, myself included, you
know.
So it takes a little bit to getto that Jesus level of
(27:27):
perfection.
Can we say that Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Absolutely, I feel it ever happened.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
You have to work towards it.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
And speak for yourself.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
But I have to think of it myself.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Verse six, the one who says he abides in him ought
himself to walk in the samemanner as he walked.
So we're seeing some good goalshere, laid out by John and the
way John said it at first therein verse one my little children.
So this is.
I picture it, old gray hairJohn, with a big gray beard, you
know.
And he's trying to tell us howto live our lives.
(28:04):
And he says in verse six, there, that you ought to walk in the
same manner that he walked, butbeloved, I'm not writing a new
commandment to you, but an oldcommandment which you have had
from the beginning.
The old commandment is the wordwhich you have heard.
On the other hand, I'm writinga new commandment to you, which
is true in him and that you inhim and in you, because the
(28:24):
darkness is passing away and thetrue light is already shining.
The one who he says he is inthe light and yet hates his
brother, is in the darkness.
Until now, the one who loveshis brother abides in the light
and there is no cause forstumbling in him.
We are supposed to be the lightof the world, right?
(28:46):
Yes, and we are supposed toshine that light in the darkness
.
Now let me tell you something.
If you go walking through myhouse right now, my
eight-year-old has Legos laidall over the place.
I mean literally, literally.
Somehow the Lego room got setup right next to the front room
(29:07):
windows over there and she hasjust been over there playing.
She is now becoming a Legoengineer, I guess, building
house after house after house.
But while she's doing it andsearching for her part, she just
that's not the one I need anddiscards it, discards it,
discards it and there's Legosall over the floor.
Because she doesn't put theLegos back in the tub and she
(29:29):
just puts them all over thefloor.
And in the dark those thingscan hurt.
In the dark, life can hurt, sincan hurt.
And let me tell you somethingIf I step on one of those Legos
and I'm right there in themiddle of hurt and I'm yipping
(29:50):
and yapping and jumping aroundwith one foot, you know like
that and just angry as can be atthe Legos, you know how they
are and somebody turns on alight and says can I help you?
All I'm going to do is look atthem and growl no, you can't
help me, just put up these Legos.
You know, I'm just going to.
You know you're not going tohear me be very kind at that
point because I'm hurting.
I think it's the same thing inlife If somebody is in the
(30:16):
middle of that hurt, in the dark, and you go trying to tell them
, hey, what can I do for you?
Hey, hey, let me help you, letme help.
No, no, no, that's what you do.
You try to shine the light fora while and you just be there to
see if you can help.
You start looking around forthe thing that hurt them and
(30:37):
start trying to pick up theLegos.
You start trying to pick up thepieces for them without them
even knowing it right.
But if you just take a blindinglight in somebody's eyes,
that's already hurting.
That's just going to makethings worse.
So I think, as you know, we'retalking about all this stuff.
I think that the first steps inall this is to build that
(30:58):
relationship, to be a light topeople who are in the dark, so
that then, michelle, we arebeing friends with them and then
we can maybe start talkingabout those spiritual matters
that may be concerning for theirsouls.
I think that that's the stepsand I think that that's the
process in doing that.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah, I think so too, and I mean I'll be the first to
say like I struggle withjudgment myself sometimes, like
Pierre and I go round and roundabout stuff sometimes because I
find myself being judgmental andI have to.
I'm faster, I'm quicker torecognize it these days, which
(31:40):
I'm very thankful for, and I'vecome to the place recently where
I've realized, through Pierreand I's conversations and
through our sermons and my Biblestudy, that you have to guard
your thoughts, so it's not evennecessarily what comes out of
your mouth but what you think.
(32:01):
So I've really really beentrying very hard to keep that in
mind and to make sure that thethoughts that come through my
head are pure and that I'm notjust speaking things with my
mouth or feeling them with myheart, but actually coming
(32:24):
together as one my mind, my soul, my thoughts, like all of it.
Because I think it's superimportant and I'm truly
struggling with that these days,like we really quickly when we
had the topic on divorce, Istruggled because one of the
(32:44):
things the pastor said and I hadto talk about it with our life
group last week and I wasbrutally honest that hey, I'm
really struggling with this onebecause, if I heard him
correctly.
He said that I can be forgivenbut I'll never be favored by God
, and I was like whoa hold up?
So, anyway, that's a wholenother conversation.
(33:09):
And it was just what my pointin that was that just because we
as a trio here have theseconversations and and you know,
pierre and I lead the life groupand we have this podcast it
does not mean for a second thatwe don't go hold on what does
that mean?
And that we don't struggle toand like have our frustrations
(33:30):
with things that we hear andthat we have to grapple with.
So I just wanted to kind ofthrow that out there really
quickly.
But what, I think that you'reright in that how we, how we
deal with those things, isreally important and to just be
there as a support for people asmuch as we can, even if we
disagree with them.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
And Pierre, have you ever seen that group and I don't
know what church it is or whereit is from or anything, I think
they're in Texas or so I couldbe absolutely wrong about that
where they'll go out and andthey will just pick it, like in
front of some kind of place andjust talk and their and their
picket signs are all like youguys are going to hell, I mean
(34:10):
that's.
They just sit there and theypick it and they just yell to
people and I mean they're veryforceful and in their, in their
condemnation of these folks,without ever having a
relationship with them.
They're just, they're justcalling them centers and just
telling them that that they're,that they're damned for life.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I'm not familiar with that, but I know the practice
like I've seen it on streetcorners and megaphones etc.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, and okay, so there's.
I don't know if there's a timefor that or not.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Did Jesus ever pick it?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I there were.
There were times when he wentinto the temple, though right.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Okay, and yeah, we're done the table Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
And and had a whip and he just started chasing
everybody off and tell him thatthey were all sinners and doing
that kind of stuff.
He was doing that in a veryforceful manner.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Why, why, why was he doing that?
What was?
What was his boiling point?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Well, I'm not sure what the boiling point was.
I know that he said it, andmaybe this is what you're
talking about that this is myfather's house and you shouldn't
you know this.
Don't.
Don't turn it into a den ofthieves.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yes, okay.
So he's upset about what'shappening, you know, in the
temple, what's exchanging takingplace there, but when you look
at human beings that heinteracted with outside of the
temple, who did who did he turnaway?
Nobody, nobody.
(35:43):
So if we're calling ourselvesChristians which you know
translates technically to Christlike who, who should we be
turning away?
Nobody, nobody.
And that's I mean it's nothappening regardless.
I mean it's not just you knowcertain communities, certain
contexts, it's you got differentchurches, different people that
(36:07):
turn away different type, andmy thought process is how do we
overcome that?
I mean we mentioned, you know,jesus didn't come from the
Pharisees.
There was a point where he washaving dinner with a Pharisee
and after that dinner was over,you know a woman comes in which,
(36:27):
if you know anything about kindof back then that's kind of a
process where, like, the partyis getting started.
I'm guessing, you know, as aprostitute.
She lays down at his feet, youknow, rubbing her hair perfume,
whatever you want to call it.
It sounds like that party'sgetting started, but but you
know, as as all the Phariseesare in shock and kind of
(36:48):
disgusted, you know Jesusdoesn't react the same way.
We got to 10 commandments and10 commandments talks about, you
know no adultery.
The woman at the well, she wasan adulterer.
How did Jesus treat her?
So we have folks that areclearly sitting that she, she,
(37:10):
clearly broke a commandment orherself, that's why she's at the
well, you know, when she was atthat time of day.
But how did Jesus react andtreat her and change ultimately
her life in that moment?
And then think about how we, indifferent scenarios but same
similar scenarios, treat otherswith that same approach.
(37:34):
And I honestly think about Idon't know if you've seen the
movie is called Jesus Revolution, based off a true story out in
the West Coast.
But ultimately a bunch ofhippies decide to follow you
know God, follow Jesus, andstart attending this church that
(37:55):
does not allow hippies.
And you see a bunch of theprominent members, the, the
donors, basically say this thisisn't going to work Like you
invite them in here, we'releaving, and it became that
pastor's job to have a sense ofOK, how do I react to this?
Do I let my biggest donors go?
(38:16):
You know?
You know, maybe deacons of thechurch?
Or do I invite in theseoutcasts that don't look like us
, don't act like us, don'tbehave like us, that are hungry
for Jesus?
And ultimately he went with thehippie route and his whole
Jesus Revolution exploded.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, I've heard about that.
I haven't necessarily seen that.
There's been other movies likethat too that are similar.
But yeah, you know, you wouldhope that the more mature would
understand what the bigger goalsare, and that is to help people
who are in the darkness.
You know, by being a light tothose people.
And you can't do that if you'reif you're I don't want to say
(39:00):
the doors, because you and Ihave talked before, we've said
it before many times on thispodcast it doesn't necessarily
mean you have to go to church.
That should be one of thoseultimate goals for you, but to
start that relationship withChrist and God, sometimes going
to church is like one of thelast steps somebody has to take.
You know it's not the firststep.
Sometimes the first step is,like we've talked about before,
(39:22):
it's just praying, it's justopening that door, just
acknowledging the name.
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
It's true, it's true, but I also feel like in certain
situations, there's like theblind leading the blind with
some of us.
You talk about, you know, beingthe light for the darkness.
We have to stop being thedarkness ourselves.
Hey, everybody, you know there'speople, but there are times
(39:48):
when we think we're the lightand we're not, and we're, we're
trying to fight darkness withdarkness, and that's not going
to get the job done, that's notgoing to do what we're, what
we're called to do, which is,which is what?
What do we call to do above allelse?
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Love one another.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, love God and love each other.
And you know we talked aboutlike our purpose before.
I think I've even tied it intosong, by Elevation Worship, with
our purpose, but I've actuallykind of swayed a little bit
because I think that the aboveall else is our purpose in life,
it's just simply love God andlove each other.
(40:26):
I think that's ultimately whywe're here.
I think that's why God made thecreation, I think that's why we
have our own kids, is the hopethat they can, you know, just
enjoy life, get to experiencelife, ultimately find a
relationship with God and andlove those surrounding them.
And I feel like it might bethat simple and we're just
(40:47):
missing the mark.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
After Jesus fed the 5000 and you know people, people
went away and everybody was fed.
And people went away and saysin verse 18 of Luke, chapter
nine it came about that while hewas praying alone, the
disciples were with him and hequestioned them.
He said who did it?
Who the multitudes say that Iam?
(41:12):
And they answered and said Johnthe Baptist.
And others say Elijah.
One of the prophets, one of theprophets of old, has risen again
.
Is what people are saying.
And he said to them OK, that'swho they say, but who do you say
that I am?
And Peter answered and he saidyou are the Christ of God, you
(41:37):
are the sent one, you are thechosen one, you are you.
You are the one from God, notany of those Replicas, you're
not any of those four shadowwings, not John the Baptist,
you're not Elijah, you are thereal deal, right?
Hmm, this is after they've seenhim do all these different
miracles, when they're kind ofunderstanding things, when
(41:58):
they've been with him for a longtime.
And and he answered them andinstructed them not to tell
anyone.
This right, his time wasn't upyet.
Is the reason why he still hadthings to do.
He said the son of man mustsuffer many things but he and be
rejected by the elders andchief priests and scribes and be
(42:18):
killed and raised up on thethird day.
That's that's weighty Guys.
That's that's pretty weighty Toknow that that's going to come
and you have to go through withit, right.
Mm-hmm for us.
We, we are those people now whohave to take losses in order to
(42:41):
see get a bigger victory forGod.
And that's what.
That's what Jesus was doinghere at this point.
He was taking losses.
I'm sure he wanted to tell thesepeople I didn't come here just
to feed you and he had to startthat relationship with them
right, he had to provide thoseEarthly needs so he could give
(43:03):
them the spiritual needs thatthey really didn't even know
that they needed.
And If we shut people out andwe turn away people and reject
people Before we can ever givethem the spiritual goodness that
they need, then we didn't doour job, jesus said.
(43:24):
Jesus said If anybody wishes tocome after me which we do,
right, you and I, or the threeof us we do we wish to come
after him.
Let him deny himself, take uphis cross daily and follow me,
for whoever wishes to save hislife shall lose it, but whoever
loses his life for my sake, heis the one who will save it.
(43:47):
For what is it if a man wasprofited, if he gains the whole
world and loses or forfeitshimself?
We are to take up that crossdaily, but we are to be
crucified with Christ so that wecan live with him daily and and
(44:08):
others can live with him aswell.
It's, it's one of those realtricky things when, yes, we are
to what, love the sinner buthate the sin.
But we got to love that sinnerfirst, you know, before we could
tell that we hate that sin, andI don't know that we would ever
necessarily say hate that sin.
I think about my children, and Ihave two daughters.
(44:31):
I have to be delicate with mywords.
I Haven't always accomplishedthat and then I've had to go
back and apologize for thethings I said when I didn't
accomplish that and work and Iweren't and I wasn't delicate
with my words and Trying toteach them a lesson or trying to
tell them they're wrong aboutsomething, you know I, it's
always works out better wheneverI approach them or my wife or
(44:55):
anybody else, with lovingkindness first and then Shifted
into a conversation where theyI'm trying to point out where
they're wrong, but I try to.
I try to approach that witheven an open dialogue.
This is why I think you'rewrong.
What do you think about that?
And and so I.
(45:17):
I think that that's what we haveto do with others, is what we
got to approach it like that.
We got a week.
We can't be harsh with ourwords, we have to be loving,
kindness with our words.
And then, after we build arelationship with that
Individual or those people orthat group or whatever it is,
after we have that relationshipwith them, all of a sudden, the
conversation We'll be able toturn into hey, why do you think
(45:40):
that this is wrong?
Or why do you think that thisis right?
It'll just not.
The conversations willnaturally occur.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Yeah, I think it's a good, a good approach.
You have to build a rapport.
I mean, none of us just want tobe have someone come at you
with, hey shame on you, you'rewrong.
Like that just puts yourdefenses up immediately, whether
even if you agree with them.
Like you, at that point youfeel like you have to defend
your position and and want toprove your point.
So I think I think you're right.
(46:08):
West.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Well, I know I'm right, Michelle.
It's just something that I'mtrying to convince you of
eventually.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
No built that rapport so.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
The whole, the whole text messaging on X was Pierre
trying to tell.
Figure out how he can convinceyou that he's right as well,
michelle.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Oh, he does that all the time, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
That's about being right.
I can't ask about followers.
That didn't bother me, but Imean I do.
I do what I think about.
So we think about all themiracles that take place in the
Bible, like how many of thosedon't take place if Jesus isn't
open and loving mm-hmm.
(46:51):
Think about the All themiracles we don't have If he
just turned his nose up atsomeone or told them they were.
They were doing wrong or theydid wrong in their past so he
they needed to fix themselvesbefore they could come to him.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
You know, one of the things I was thinking about
since we had that conversationwas how did he he treated the
Pharisees and the Sadducees andthe scribes?
He treated them so much, sodifferent.
Then he treated like the normal, average, average, everyday
person.
I'm sure there were Different,you know he did.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Honestly, I think he gave them equal opportunity and
they chose to react to himdifferently than normal people.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying there and at some
point to me he already knewwhere the conversation was going
to go.
Maybe he already saw what theirhearts were like, or whatever.
Maybe it's just me turning theTV on in my head.
Like I've said, I see how he'sdoing that.
Maybe I hear the tones of hisvoice differently than what they
were necessarily directed, butthat's something that I thought
(48:04):
I was like.
Ok, there you go.
There's a reason to read theGospels again.
Wes is to look at how he treatsthe Pharisees and the Sadducees
and the scribes.
See how he treats them, anddoes he treat them any
differently than just the commonperson?
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Well, and here's the thing, like I think that's human
nature because we see thesemovies and even as much as I
love the chosen right and I do,and it's helped me to bring the
Bible to life there's stillsomeone else's interpretation of
it and so that gets in our headand then when we read it we see
(48:44):
, because we've already had thatimpression, then we can apply
that to what, what we're readingRight.
So I think sometimes it is superimportant for us to do our best
to set that aside and reallyapproach it in a different
manner.
And the reason that you stay inreading your Bible daily and
maybe rereading a passage two orthree different times a week or
(49:06):
whatever like in your lifetimeHowever often that is the reason
we read it again is because wehave different experiences that
we've we've had since we read itlast and we may receive it
differently.
So you know you could readsomething for like the fifth
time and be like whoa, wait aminute.
I didn't see that last time orI didn't understand it that way
(49:27):
because I hadn't had theexperiences that I have now.
So I think it is important toput that aside sometimes and not
have those preconceived notionsabout things.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, yeah, do you think this episode was a little
more Christlike, or did we fallshort?
How do you think, pierre?
Speaker 2 (49:48):
I think it was good conversations.
I don't think an episode isgoing to be Christlike.
It's going to be what ouractions are and what the
listeners actions are beyondthis this episode.
But hopefully it puts some,some thoughts into the listeners
minds and hopefully doesn't inour own minds.
So even you talked about how toapproach your, your daughters
(50:09):
and stuff.
I'm like, yeah, I can, I can bebetter at that myself.
So it's a situation Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
So that's a plan of action.
So we get we treat our lovedones in our house maybe a little
bit differently, right we could, maybe, because I like to leave
sermons whenever I hear them orsomething you know, whenever
I'm reading the Bible.
Okay, what's my plan of actionafter this?
You know what I mean?
I'm just a plan of action kindof a guy, so I want to know what
my plan of action is after thisepisode.
(50:35):
I guess one of them is to tryto do the.
I like that.
You said that.
That.
I said that about my daughter,so I don't forget that.
I'm writing it down.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
I think your plan of action should be above all else.
It should be all of our plan ofaction.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Okay, all right, michelle.
What about you?
What do you think a plan ofaction was from this one?
Speaker 3 (50:58):
I actually agree with PR on this one.
I think that it sounds sosimple to just say that should
be our plan of action, but man,to put that into action is
sometimes very difficult when itgoes against what we believe,
how we feel, maybe even ourexperiences that we've had bad
(51:22):
experiences in the past fromcertain things Like to just be
loving, even if we don't acceptit Like it.
I think it's.
It's so easy to say and so verydifficult to do.
So I do agree with him and Ithink that is just a constant.
(51:43):
It's going to be a constantbattle and a struggle, some more
than others, but yeah, I think,I think that is the takeaway in
general.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
I have two plans of action.
One I'm going to get the vacuumcleaner and suck up all those
Legos laying all over the floor.
That's one of the plans I'mgoing to do, and number two is
tomorrow.
No, it doesn't matter what dayit is, because whenever you
listen to this episode, you can.
You can maybe take the sameplan of action.
I'm going to get uncomfortableand I'm going to meet somebody
(52:15):
who I don't know their name, butyet they look kind of scary to
me.
Okay, and I say scary, I justmean like they're out of my
comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
You know they don't get like wrong or something.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
No, no, I mean because I'm in a lot of stores
all the time and I get to see alot of people and I'm I'm all
over the place.
So there's a lot of strangecharacters that come.
I'm going to find out theirname.
You got it.
I'm going to find out theirname.
I'm going to introduce myselfto some somehow, some way, and I
will find out their name aswell and we'll see.
(52:47):
We'll see where theconversation goes from there.
How about that?
That's my plan of action.
And I say scary, I hope.
I hope you understand.
I just mean out of my comfortzone.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
Yes, scary for you.
Yes, that was scary for me.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
I scared, I'm scared.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
If you are a dog, you're scared of the vacuum
cleaner.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
So that's, that's what I'm going to try to do.
So I appreciate you guysspurring me on to good works
here on the Finding Faith andLosing Sleep Podcast, and we
will encourage you the listenersout there in Jordan or wherever
you are listening we willencourage you to try and leave a
review.
You can slap the stars aroundor you can do whatever you can
do to leave a review on thepodcast listening form platform
(53:31):
You're listening to us on.
That would be great as well.
That would be a plan of action,and the only reason why is
because we love to hear from you, pierre.
You have we still have yet tohave a question and answer
session from questions from thelisteners or anything like that,
but I am still hoping for thatone day, I hope so too.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
I've even asked a couple of folks that I know
listen and they're like you guysexplain things too well for us
to have questions, which wasnice, but I'm like we still we
still got to get Westiesquestions because he's he's
itching at it.
So, yes, if you can't email usfinding faith dot losing sleep
at gmailcom, if any question youmay want us to ask, you can
also hit us up on Twitter.
(54:09):
Slash X at finding faith pot.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yes, or leave a comment on whatever listening
platform you like to listen tothe show on that would work as
well and tell us your plan ofaction.
From this episode or any of thepast episodes.
You can always go back andlisten to those archives.
I think that those episodeswill always be pertinent.
I don't think that we werenecessarily time sensitive on
those things, so I think you canalways glean a little bit of
wisdom from any of those pastepisodes and I look forward to
(54:34):
future episodes as well.
And you pray for us and we willpray for you.
It's time to wake up and pray up here.
On the Fighting Faith andLosing Sleep podcast, I am, wes
Easley, one of your hosts, andof course, I am always joined on
this podcast by Michelle and byPierre, a married couple from
up north.
I am from down south, so thatmakes me a southerner.
That makes them a Yankee,pierre, michelle.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
guys know that you're Yankees.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
You could have said northerner, I mean, it would
have still fit.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well, that's true it could have, but I've always
liked the term Yankee and Idon't mind being called.
I would say that I don't likebeing called a hillbilly, but
there's a little party or melike a redneck or something.
I don't mind being called thata little bit.
That means I'm out in the sun,that means I'm working, that
means I'm doing things out inthe yard a lot, and I think
that's where the terminologycomes from.
(00:52):
From a redneck standpoint.
I'm not sure where Yankee camefrom.
I'd have to Google that inorder to find out where Yankee
derives from.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm not sure I know the New York Yankees.
I remember singing YankeeDoodle as a kid and that's about
it.
I do like how you clarifiedthat we're not always with you.
You started with that.
They're always with me andyou're always with me on the
podcast.
So thanks for clarifying so wedon't come off as creepers.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, we're just in your little pocket.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'm always wondering where you are and I have a
Michelle that appeared in mypocket Lock it in my pocket.
Hey, but you are joining us hereand we are a podcast just made
for everyday people talkingabout everyday things.
Sometimes it's controversial,sometimes it's not.
We're trying to live our livesthe best way that we possibly
can, because at what point inour lives we were all lost.
Here, michelle and myself Icould speak for all three of us.
(01:44):
We were all lost, but then wewere found.
We found a way that made ourlives a little bit better, and
so we try to share that withothers, and we do that.
One of the ways is through apodcast form, pierre, something
that you came up with, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I just wanted to talk through life and we're in a
couple of live groups ourselvesat least I'm in a couple, we
lead one and just goodconversations that take place
that make you really think aboutyour faith, about the Bible and
just about life itself.
And I thought why not do thisin front of a microphone, as if
(02:18):
we're having these conversations, if we're struggling with it,
and what's going to stop others?
They're probably going throughthe same thing, so let's talk it
through and perhaps reach outto at least one person, and I
think we've done that by now, soI guess we're targeting one
more.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
And a big shout out to all of our friends in Jordan,
isn't that, pierre?
You told me that we are highlyright that Jordan is.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
That's amazing.
Yeah, I got a notification.
So Charitable is basically likea ranking website.
They rank podcasts throughApple to Spotify, to a bunch of
others, and all of a sudden Igot an email alert.
I still check the emails lessand basically congratulations,
you know, you're ranked inJordan and I'm like, okay, we're
probably 100 or something and Ilooked for like 23,.
(03:01):
I'm like whoa, I mean we're nineand you know the Bible Recap
was number one.
I think Girls Gone Bible wasnumber two really popular
podcast.
So to be in the top 25 was justspectacular.
So thanks to our listeners overin the country of Jordan and I
guess you said we were up tonine.
Apparently it gives me like atracker we were at rank nine at
(03:23):
some point and our episode 22actually got as high as number
three over there, so that's justspectacular.
So heartfelt thanks towhoever's listening over in the
country of Jordan.
We appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
And it was so funny.
Pierre brings his phone in toshow me I was working and he
opens the door and he like holdshis phone out and he shows me
and I was like okay, and I waslike whoa, we're ranked.
Really, I was like who's Jordan?
And then I was like wait, youmean like as in the country?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And I hope one of the things, one of the reasons why
is because we do try to keepeverything in somewhat layman's
terms, I think, is how theshow's been described before,
where we're not necessarilytrying to be theologians we try
to talk about the Bible, we tryto talk about Christ like things
, we try to talk about thosecircumstances in life that
pertain to the Bible and gleanwisdom from Scripture.
(04:13):
I guess is what we try to do,michelle, and so I'm glad and I
hope that that's kind of theeffect of it all.
But, pierre, you and I weretexting each other I don't know
if that's what we call it or notwhenever we do it on the X
platform.
How would people get ahold ofus over there on X?
How would they follow the show?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's at Finding Faith .
Pot is our handle over there,and then we also have an email
findingfafelosingsleepatgmailcom.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So if people wanted to get in touch with us and they
can kind of text you towardsthose by using that email and
using the X thing, I was doingit on the X platform as well
with you and then all of asudden our little text message
stuff started.
It took a right turn and aright turn down.
Uh, oh, lane is what I wouldcall it, pierre, I don't know,
because it became very I don'twant to say heated.
(05:00):
It wasn't heated, we weren'targuing, but we just have this
kind of ongoing conversationabout a couple of things and you
just I could feel the passionwhen you were pushing the
buttons to make this textmessage on X go through to me
and I thought, boy, that'ssomething we got to talk about
on the show and you were rightthere for it as well.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, I mean we touched on a variety of topics.
We had talked, you know,divorce, we mentioned some of
the homosexuality stuff, andreally what I was passionate
about was just, you know whatthis episode is probably going
to be about, and that's justbeing more Christ-like.
I just feel like it lacksamongst a lot of so-called
(05:41):
Christians.
But I think that even falls onus at times.
There's times where I'm not theman I want to be in my own
household or outside in theworld, and you know, that's
something I feel like we reallyshould be more passionate about.
You know, we have theseconversations about, you know,
who we are and how we're changed, but we don't always, you know,
present that person to others.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
My biggest question.
I don't know which one of youtwo are wordsmith, because I'm
definitely not a wordsmith.
How do you spell Christ-like?
Is that one word?
Is it two words, with a littlehyphen in the middle of it?
What do you spell?
How do you?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
spell Christ-like.
I've always seen it with ahyphen.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah same here.
All right, well, I just had toput that to rest in my mind.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So, even so, really cool story, as we kind of go
into this.
So, as the listeners know, asyou know, wes, we have a life
that we run and we meet onThursday.
So we're usually meetingactually right now, in this
moment, but we have someschedule conflicts that we met
last night and maybe halfwaythrough, as we're Well, first of
(06:46):
all, it was truly last minutethat we met last night.
Yeah, yeah.
So maybe halfway throughthere's this couple that shows
up and they just kind of walk inthe church for a moment and
they come over to us, they graba seat and they kind of just
pull up a chair and ask if theycan listen.
We're like sure, yeah, ask themif.
Michelle, you stated we meet onThursdays and last like minute
(07:07):
decided, hey, let's just dotonight, let's do Wednesday
night.
Most people can be there.
So I sent out a little groupmessage to everyone saying, hey,
we're just going to meettonight at the church, so meet
us there.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Okay now time out.
Let me Can I call time out.
Just make sure that this is allset up right.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
You can't ask, you've already done it, so time out it
is.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Let me make sure this is set up well, and we did not
talk about this before the show,just put it out there for the
listeners we talked about.
We did the text thing on to Xlast week and so we've been
planning for the episode hereand we were going to record.
I think last night is when werecorded record and then you two
canceled on me, of course, butno and you said our live group
(07:50):
is going to meet on Wednesdaynight instead of Thursday night,
so can we change it to tomorrownight?
And of course we could.
That was fine, but this is allsomething that we talk about on
the show where it's beyond ourcontrol, right?
And I tell you guys that I tryto not worry about those things
that are beyond my control,because when it's beyond my
(08:12):
control, I try to go okay, god,you're controlling this.
What's my part in all of this?
Let me just I'm going to gowith the flow, I'm going to look
for what your desires are andI'm going to try to carry out
whatever your wishes are throughmy little hands.
That's kind of how things go inmy life and that's how I try to
go with the flow and not stressout about things, not worry
(08:33):
about things, and the podcast isone of those instances as well,
especially when you try torecord with people who are all
over the United States, like wedo at times.
So that's how the story is.
So you guys go there Lastminute, you're holding your
class on a different night, andthen these people walk in.
So this is getting juicy.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Yeah, and we're halfway through.
We were halfway through ourmeeting.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, then came in late.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, oh way late.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, and so they just pull up and share their ass
.
They can listen to lecture, andI initially thought it was a
new member from last weekbecause I didn't get to go last
week.
But the way Michelle waslooking at me I'm like no, she
doesn't know who these twopeople are.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
You guys really should lock the church doors, by
the way.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
We should have, but I'm glad we did.
I'm glad we didn't either.
So finally, time in.
They are from Portland, oregon,where they came out, and they
just moved to Indiana inDecember, just started attending
the church and I know thehusband was 61 years old and he
(09:39):
finally started to talk and hebasically dove into the fact
that his wife saved his life.
He was at a point where he wasfacing opioids that he was
dealing with and just otherthings that he was battling in
life in he felt God brought hisnow wife into his life and he
(10:03):
shared some stuff on it His sonthat had passed away and it was
just really, really heartwarming.
And so we're like wow, andwe're getting the tissues out.
People are crying.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Oh, I know Michelle's crying.
I know Michelle's crying.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Watch it.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Wes.
This couple is just sharingtheir story to our group and
we're all new to them.
And they're like, yeah, likethis is like a date for us, you
know, like a date.
It's like, yeah, you know,church is a date.
You show up and you dress upnice and you hear good music,
you may get to dance.
And we're like, okay, well,what led you here?
And I was like, well, we weretold that there was a Bible
(10:38):
study here tonight.
We got an alert and I'm like,okay, that's great, but we don't
meet on Thursdays.
We're not that Bible study.
That's not us.
We didn't send out that order.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
And there wasn't one.
I mean, there was a women'sgroup that was meeting, but
there was not a Bible study.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So and this was their first attempt at just trying
Like we wanna go to the church.
We saw there were cars here.
Something told us to come onthis night and here you are.
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Something told us meeting the alert right.
What's that Something told usto come on this night meeting
the alerts right.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, the alert is about first Wednesday, which is
the first Wednesday of eachmonth, which is actually next
week, yeah.
But yeah, they show up andwe're like, yeah, we don't
usually meet on this night, butwe happen to be here tonight.
You happen to show up, we havethis connection and really good
conversation.
It was just really super cool.
But how that ties in is so.
(11:40):
The husband multiple times gaveus a reason why he's trying to
continue to get better, and whathe kept saying was I just wanna
be more Christ-like.
No, and I looked at Michelleand we knew what the topic was
gonna be on this.
So the fact that this coupleshows up to the church on a
(12:04):
night that we don't usually meetto our live group shares their
story, and her husband's focuswas to just be more Christ-like
is how he wants to kind of moveforward on.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I can even count the number of times he said that
either.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
He's y'all dropping to me One of those coincidental
accidentals right, I think Ijust termed up a phrase there
Coincidental, accidental sayswhat that is.
That's very, very unique andit's great to see how things
like that work in our lives.
And I don't get shocked by thatstuff anymore.
(12:38):
I don't get amazed by itanymore.
I do to some degree, you know,like I'm like, well, that's cool
, you know, but at the same timeI'm not like, yeah, you're just
.
I always think that Godsometimes just enjoys playing
with me a little bit, you know,toying with me and having fun
like that.
So that's a cool story, that'sa great story.
That's a great story.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's pretty hard.
I couldn't stop thinking aboutit.
I got home and I'm like weweren't supposed to be there,
like we don't meet that night,and he kept talking about being
Christ-like.
That's what we were alreadytalking about in our pot.
It was just-.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Well, and you talked about you need to lock the doors
.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Typically, the doors are locked Like yeah everybody
gets in and we lock the doorsusually, but I didn't know like
there was a women's group takingplace, I didn't know if they
could get in, so I just left itunlocked and sure enough-.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
So another anomaly A couple comes in and finds us.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
FYI, what we do at our church whenever we have
meetings like that on thosenights, is we have a man
stationed at a door, or maybetwo doors, even that people
usually come in.
So we just we have security,which is one of our own men that
stand at the door just to kindof give a presence there.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
And the door is locked.
We just give a presence tounlock the door.
Well, we'll keep people out,but at the same time.
So a cool story.
Now that has a little bit oframification to what we were
texting about or DMing about.
I'm gonna go-.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You were texting.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, we just say texting.
I'm just gonna say texting isthe same thing.
But we were texting aboutPierre and you were passionate
because it seemed like somebodywas doing somebody wrong.
The conversation was somebodydoing something wrong.
That's what I remember of it.
I have a short memory and Idon't remember a lot of things.
I just remember, like mesending you a video, and it was
(14:25):
a video of a debate betweenBarack Obama and somebody that
he was running against.
Whenever it was back inIllinois times too.
I mean, it was in the 90s atsome point, I don't even know,
it could have been 2000s, Idon't know, but before he was
president, it was silly.
When he was, I think it wasSenator in Illinois and you just
(14:47):
went off on the tangent and Iwas like holy cow.
I didn't mean to open up a canof worms there, but I did.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, I don't remember that topic, but yeah,
you caught me at a unique timeand I remember the video and I'm
just like I feel like this is aconversation we have to have
because, again, I feel likethere's a lot of people that
claim to be something that theydon't necessarily portray in
(15:16):
their real life, and I meanwe'll just say Christians Like.
I feel like there are timesthat Christians, which the first
part of that is Christ, aren'tChrist like, and I think it's a
good topic because I know I fallinto this bucket myself at
times in life.
But we talked about otherepisodes.
(15:37):
I really feel like one of thebigger turnoffs for those trying
to find faith or interested intheir faith and growing.
That is how those prove thosethat claim to be in the church,
claim to be loving, claim to belike Christ or are far from it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
All right.
So it's kind of like it's yourattitude, right, it's our
attitudes, not only ourattitudes towards those who are
in the church, but also thosewho are outside of the church.
And what are we gonna do withthose attitudes?
And let me ask you guys thisMichelle, maybe I'll direct this
question over to you Does itdepend on how that person is
(16:24):
reacting?
Let's say, we run up onsomebody out there in the
streets out and we're shoppingat Walmart or something like
that.
We run into somebody andthey're just not acting very
nicely.
Is it up to them to be able tobring the Christ-like out in us,
or do we just need to exhibitthat towards them, regardless of
how they're acting?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I think it's that we need to do it, regardless of how
they're acting.
And here's the thing.
Let me just preface all of thisby saying, first of all, I have
no idea what the two of youwere talking about, so this is
gonna be really interesting.
Pierre and I talked the most onthis podcast, but one thing
that I do wanna interject reallyquickly is that, based on what
(17:10):
Pierre just said, I will saythat the reason that, as far as
I understand it cause I wasyoung, but the reason that I've
always been told that we stoppedgoing to church when I was a
child, is because my dad and momgot really fed up and
(17:30):
frustrated with the hypocrisythat they were witnessing, like
if somebody came in not dressedto the nines and hearing people
talk about look what they woreto church and look who's here
and why are they here.
And I think we've talked aboutthat, we've touched on that
before that church should be foreveryone, and that's the point.
(17:55):
It's for the sinners and thepoor and the broken, and it's
not a place for perfect people,because none of us are perfect.
But, to answer your question,unless I think that it is our
duty to act Christ-like nomatter how someone is acting.
(18:16):
We need to still show grace andlove, and that is not the
easiest and I will say I toofailed that and I hate that.
I do, and sometimes I beatmyself up over it, and even not
just in public but in private,like even my interactions with
my daughter or with my mom anddad, or with Pierre or my
(18:37):
siblings.
It's tough.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So I remember when, before I became a Christian,
you'd have to catch me.
I was always a people pleaser,I guess, but you'd have to catch
me on a good day in order to,like, go out of my way to help
you.
I would just assume, knock anold lady down and take her
wallet instead of helping heracross the road.
(19:01):
You know what I mean.
It was one of those thingswhere I was a people pleaser
whenever I was working.
But if I wasn't working I neverfound a way to.
I never looked for any way tohelp somebody outside of being
at work and being an employee atsome place.
You know, that just wasn't whatI did.
I was always to myself, Ialways kept to myself and I just
(19:23):
I didn't want anybody to bug meand I didn't want to bug
anybody.
And that was kind of Yankee inme.
You know, Now that I'm asoutherner, I feel like I'm
always trying to be helpful alittle bit more.
Maybe I've been taught a littlebit better than what I was
taught up North.
But also as a Christian, I kindof take that work ethic with me
always wherever I go, at alltimes.
(19:44):
Now, that doesn't mean I'mperfect all the time, but I
would like to think that I'mnever rude or beyond rude.
Maybe I am and I don't know it.
Maybe I cut off somebodyaccidentally trying to get to
something that I want to get to,but I don't think I am.
I think I try to make sure thatI'm always yielding to people
and allowing them to go in frontof me and stuff like that.
If I'm in a store, but I thinkdown here, I'm always or now
(20:09):
anyway in my life I'm alwayshaving that same attitude of I'm
on the clock for God, I'malways working for Him, so I'm
always trying to find ways tohelp out others along the way,
if that makes any sense to you.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
I think that's a great way to put it, that you're
on the clock.
I mean, have that mentality.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Now I was gonna say, pierre, that doesn't always mean
I agree with everybody and howthey are acting, you know, but
that doesn't mean I treat themany.
That doesn't mean I treat thembadly because of how they're
acting.
That doesn't mean I treat thembadly, pierre, because of how
they're dressed or maybe howthey speak.
It doesn't mean that I treatthem or go out of my way to
(20:54):
treat them rough, and actually Ilook for ways to encounter them
, to somehow try and shine alight in their life that I think
needs to be shined, becausemaybe they are just in a dark
place.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, I think the balance of what that looks like
is where the struggle is.
So, like a part of ourconversation I know we talked
about Michelle's been divorcedbefore.
There's a couple in one of mylife groups that that's the case
.
Like the same situation, thewife's been divorced before and
(21:31):
remarried to who her husband isnow and their previous church
kicked them out.
They knew she was married, theyknew her previous husband and
they knew that who she wasmarried to now was not that
previous husband, so theyrespectfully asked them not to
attend their church anymore.
(21:53):
When you think about what thechurch should be, how is that
Christ like?
How do you reach those people?
I think part of ourconversation on Twitter slash X
with the DM was a note that cameto me from someone in the
(22:14):
homosexual community and theirthoughts on Christians.
They said that the meanest,most narrow-minded people that
they've ever encountered allhave one thing in common they're
Christian, and they made thenote that most Christians play
the role of Pharisees ratherthan Christ.
This was someone that also grewup in church, et cetera.
(22:38):
I won't go into that wholeconversation, but just reading
that you have to think.
So how do we get to this pointand how do we fix it?
And I'm not necessarily sayingyou have to accept certain
lifestyles, but how do you notcome across as the meanest and
(22:59):
cruelest to something that youmight just disagree with?
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Well, and Pierre and I did have this conversation
because he showed me the textand my reaction was the first
thing I said was that's reallysad that we're not, as a
Christian community, not lovingand acting like Jesus, because
Jesus was not here with thePharisees, he was here with the
(23:27):
sinners, the broken.
They're rejected, and he lovedthem.
In spite of that and the secondpart of that was I also and if
I'm really brutally honest, Ireally struggle with where is
that line?
Because I also believe thatwe're supposed to hold up what
the Bible says.
And so, as a Christian, whereis the line between holding the
(23:53):
line of what the Bible saysversus being loving?
And I think that's the key is,we are first called to love and
be like Jesus, and if we gobeyond that, it's a judgment
thing and it's not for us tojudge.
However, this is where Ipersonally struggle, like how do
(24:18):
you stand up for your beliefs?
I mean, I don't know.
I hope you know what I'm tryingto get across here Like there
is a line there that's a grayarea, and that's where I
struggle, as just a human beingis always in that gray area,
whether it's in my walk with Godor in work Whenever there's a
(24:38):
line that's kind of shaded.
I like to be in control ofthings.
That's just who I am, and so Istruggle when it's outside of my
comfort zone and it is in thatgray area.
So I hope I explained that wellenough.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
But it's a great conversation that we're having
right now.
It takes it takes us a littlebit to get warmed up, it feels
like, but we're having a greatconversation right now.
Let me, let me.
I'm going to go over to 1stJohn, chapter two.
Okay, my little children, I amwriting these things to you that
you may not sin and if anyonesins, we have an advocate with
(25:16):
the Father, Jesus Christ, therighteous, and he himself is the
propitiation for our sins.
The only reason why I want toread that is because
propitiation was like the firstbig word I ever learned in the
church and I just love sayingthe word propitiation, Isn't
that?
It's a cool word.
It sounds cool, doesn't it?
It's fun.
Yeah, it was a propitiation forus.
That means that means he's theone you know, he's the gift for
(25:39):
our sins, he's how he.
So if I ever needed apropitiation with my wife, some
people would bring my wife ifshe was angry at me or whatever.
Some people would bring theirwives like a dozen roses.
Well, that would be apropitiation for your sins
against your wife.
Right, here's the dozen roses.
Take this on behalf of my sins.
I am sorry for what I've done.
(26:00):
Right, For me, it was a dozendonuts.
If I got a dozen donuts insteadof a dozen roses, I was in man.
That was a good smooth move.
Can I please have a dozenpropitiation donuts please?
Is that what I need to bringhome to my wife?
But so Christ was thatpropitiation to God.
He says here, I am theiroffering.
(26:21):
I am what is standing betweenyou and their sins.
I'm giving myself up for theirsins.
So he was the dozen donuts.
I don't believe that that hasever been done before saying
that Jesus was a dozen donuts.
But you guys understand whatI'm saying.
Please take that in context, Iguess.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
He had me Krispy Kreme, because those are the
best.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
He was hot Krispy Kreme.
He was hot Krispy Kreme, a lifeof fun.
Literally.
Yes, there you go.
He himself is the propitiationfor our sins, and not for ours
only, but also for those who arethe whole world.
And by this we know that wehave come to know him if we keep
his commandments.
The one who says I have come toknow him and does not keep his
commandments as a liar and thetruth is not in him.
(27:07):
It's going to get good here ina second.
I got to read verse five,though.
But whoever keeps his word inhim, the love of God is truly
been perfected.
By this we know that we are inhim.
Now the perfected part.
I think we're all a work inprogress, myself included, you
know.
So it takes a little bit to getto that Jesus level of
(27:27):
perfection.
Can we say that Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Absolutely, I feel it ever happened.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
You have to work towards it.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
And speak for yourself.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
But I have to think of it myself.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Verse six, the one who says he abides in him ought
himself to walk in the samemanner as he walked.
So we're seeing some good goalshere, laid out by John and the
way John said it at first therein verse one my little children.
So this is.
I picture it, old gray hairJohn, with a big gray beard, you
know.
And he's trying to tell us howto live our lives.
(28:04):
And he says in verse six, there, that you ought to walk in the
same manner that he walked, butbeloved, I'm not writing a new
commandment to you, but an oldcommandment which you have had
from the beginning.
The old commandment is the wordwhich you have heard.
On the other hand, I'm writinga new commandment to you, which
is true in him and that you inhim and in you, because the
(28:24):
darkness is passing away and thetrue light is already shining.
The one who he says he is inthe light and yet hates his
brother, is in the darkness.
Until now, the one who loveshis brother abides in the light
and there is no cause forstumbling in him.
We are supposed to be the lightof the world, right?
(28:46):
Yes, and we are supposed toshine that light in the darkness
.
Now let me tell you something.
If you go walking through myhouse right now, my
eight-year-old has Legos laidall over the place.
I mean literally, literally.
Somehow the Lego room got setup right next to the front room
(29:07):
windows over there and she hasjust been over there playing.
She is now becoming a Legoengineer, I guess, building
house after house after house.
But while she's doing it andsearching for her part, she just
that's not the one I need anddiscards it, discards it,
discards it and there's Legosall over the floor.
Because she doesn't put theLegos back in the tub and she
(29:29):
just puts them all over thefloor.
And in the dark those thingscan hurt.
In the dark, life can hurt, sincan hurt.
And let me tell you somethingIf I step on one of those Legos
and I'm right there in themiddle of hurt and I'm yipping
(29:50):
and yapping and jumping aroundwith one foot, you know like
that and just angry as can be atthe Legos, you know how they
are and somebody turns on alight and says can I help you?
All I'm going to do is look atthem and growl no, you can't
help me, just put up these Legos.
You know, I'm just going to.
You know you're not going tohear me be very kind at that
point because I'm hurting.
I think it's the same thing inlife If somebody is in the
(30:16):
middle of that hurt, in the dark, and you go trying to tell them
, hey, what can I do for you?
Hey, hey, let me help you, letme help.
No, no, no, that's what you do.
You try to shine the light fora while and you just be there to
see if you can help.
You start looking around forthe thing that hurt them and
(30:37):
start trying to pick up theLegos.
You start trying to pick up thepieces for them without them
even knowing it right.
But if you just take a blindinglight in somebody's eyes,
that's already hurting.
That's just going to makethings worse.
So I think, as you know, we'retalking about all this stuff.
I think that the first steps inall this is to build that
(30:58):
relationship, to be a light topeople who are in the dark, so
that then, michelle, we arebeing friends with them and then
we can maybe start talkingabout those spiritual matters
that may be concerning for theirsouls.
I think that that's the stepsand I think that that's the
process in doing that.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah, I think so too, and I mean I'll be the first to
say like I struggle withjudgment myself sometimes, like
Pierre and I go round and roundabout stuff sometimes because I
find myself being judgmental andI have to.
I'm faster, I'm quicker torecognize it these days, which
(31:40):
I'm very thankful for, and I'vecome to the place recently where
I've realized, through Pierreand I's conversations and
through our sermons and my Biblestudy, that you have to guard
your thoughts, so it's not evennecessarily what comes out of
your mouth but what you think.
(32:01):
So I've really really beentrying very hard to keep that in
mind and to make sure that thethoughts that come through my
head are pure and that I'm notjust speaking things with my
mouth or feeling them with myheart, but actually coming
(32:24):
together as one my mind, my soul, my thoughts, like all of it.
Because I think it's superimportant and I'm truly
struggling with that these days,like we really quickly when we
had the topic on divorce, Istruggled because one of the
(32:44):
things the pastor said and I hadto talk about it with our life
group last week and I wasbrutally honest that hey, I'm
really struggling with this onebecause, if I heard him
correctly.
He said that I can be forgivenbut I'll never be favored by God
, and I was like whoa hold up?
So, anyway, that's a wholenother conversation.
(33:09):
And it was just what my pointin that was that just because we
as a trio here have theseconversations and and you know,
pierre and I lead the life groupand we have this podcast it
does not mean for a second thatwe don't go hold on what does
that mean?
And that we don't struggle toand like have our frustrations
(33:30):
with things that we hear andthat we have to grapple with.
So I just wanted to kind ofthrow that out there really
quickly.
But what, I think that you'reright in that how we, how we
deal with those things, isreally important and to just be
there as a support for people asmuch as we can, even if we
disagree with them.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
And Pierre, have you ever seen that group and I don't
know what church it is or whereit is from or anything, I think
they're in Texas or so I couldbe absolutely wrong about that
where they'll go out and andthey will just pick it, like in
front of some kind of place andjust talk and their and their
picket signs are all like youguys are going to hell, I mean
(34:10):
that's.
They just sit there and theypick it and they just yell to
people and I mean they're veryforceful and in their, in their
condemnation of these folks,without ever having a
relationship with them.
They're just, they're justcalling them centers and just
telling them that that they're,that they're damned for life.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I'm not familiar with that, but I know the practice
like I've seen it on streetcorners and megaphones etc.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, and okay, so there's.
I don't know if there's a timefor that or not.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Did Jesus ever pick it?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I there were.
There were times when he wentinto the temple, though right.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Okay, and yeah, we're done the table Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
And and had a whip and he just started chasing
everybody off and tell him thatthey were all sinners and doing
that kind of stuff.
He was doing that in a veryforceful manner.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Why, why, why was he doing that?
What was?
What was his boiling point?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Well, I'm not sure what the boiling point was.
I know that he said it, andmaybe this is what you're
talking about that this is myfather's house and you shouldn't
you know this.
Don't.
Don't turn it into a den ofthieves.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yes, okay.
So he's upset about what'shappening, you know, in the
temple, what's exchanging takingplace there, but when you look
at human beings that heinteracted with outside of the
temple, who did who did he turnaway?
Nobody, nobody.
(35:43):
So if we're calling ourselvesChristians which you know
translates technically to Christlike who, who should we be
turning away?
Nobody, nobody.
And that's I mean it's nothappening regardless.
I mean it's not just you knowcertain communities, certain
contexts, it's you got differentchurches, different people that
(36:07):
turn away different type, andmy thought process is how do we
overcome that?
I mean we mentioned, you know,jesus didn't come from the
Pharisees.
There was a point where he washaving dinner with a Pharisee
and after that dinner was over,you know a woman comes in which,
(36:27):
if you know anything about kindof back then that's kind of a
process where, like, the partyis getting started.
I'm guessing, you know, as aprostitute.
She lays down at his feet, youknow, rubbing her hair perfume,
whatever you want to call it.
It sounds like that party'sgetting started, but but you
know, as as all the Phariseesare in shock and kind of
(36:48):
disgusted, you know Jesusdoesn't react the same way.
We got to 10 commandments and10 commandments talks about, you
know no adultery.
The woman at the well, she wasan adulterer.
How did Jesus treat her?
So we have folks that areclearly sitting that she, she,
(37:10):
clearly broke a commandment orherself, that's why she's at the
well, you know, when she was atthat time of day.
But how did Jesus react andtreat her and change ultimately
her life in that moment?
And then think about how we, indifferent scenarios but same
similar scenarios, treat otherswith that same approach.
(37:34):
And I honestly think about Idon't know if you've seen the
movie is called Jesus Revolution, based off a true story out in
the West Coast.
But ultimately a bunch ofhippies decide to follow you
know God, follow Jesus, andstart attending this church that
(37:55):
does not allow hippies.
And you see a bunch of theprominent members, the, the
donors, basically say this thisisn't going to work Like you
invite them in here, we'releaving, and it became that
pastor's job to have a sense ofOK, how do I react to this?
Do I let my biggest donors go?
(38:16):
You know?
You know, maybe deacons of thechurch?
Or do I invite in theseoutcasts that don't look like us
, don't act like us, don'tbehave like us, that are hungry
for Jesus?
And ultimately he went with thehippie route and his whole
Jesus Revolution exploded.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, I've heard about that.
I haven't necessarily seen that.
There's been other movies likethat too that are similar.
But yeah, you know, you wouldhope that the more mature would
understand what the bigger goalsare, and that is to help people
who are in the darkness.
You know, by being a light tothose people.
And you can't do that if you'reif you're I don't want to say
(39:00):
the doors, because you and Ihave talked before, we've said
it before many times on thispodcast it doesn't necessarily
mean you have to go to church.
That should be one of thoseultimate goals for you, but to
start that relationship withChrist and God, sometimes going
to church is like one of thelast steps somebody has to take.
You know it's not the firststep.
Sometimes the first step is,like we've talked about before,
(39:22):
it's just praying, it's justopening that door, just
acknowledging the name.
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
It's true, it's true, but I also feel like in certain
situations, there's like theblind leading the blind with
some of us.
You talk about, you know, beingthe light for the darkness.
We have to stop being thedarkness ourselves.
Hey, everybody, you know there'speople, but there are times
(39:48):
when we think we're the lightand we're not, and we're, we're
trying to fight darkness withdarkness, and that's not going
to get the job done, that's notgoing to do what we're, what
we're called to do, which is,which is what?
What do we call to do above allelse?
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Love one another.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, love God and love each other.
And you know we talked aboutlike our purpose before.
I think I've even tied it intosong, by Elevation Worship, with
our purpose, but I've actuallykind of swayed a little bit
because I think that the aboveall else is our purpose in life,
it's just simply love God andlove each other.
(40:26):
I think that's ultimately whywe're here.
I think that's why God made thecreation, I think that's why we
have our own kids, is the hopethat they can, you know, just
enjoy life, get to experiencelife, ultimately find a
relationship with God and andlove those surrounding them.
And I feel like it might bethat simple and we're just
(40:47):
missing the mark.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
After Jesus fed the 5000 and you know people, people
went away and everybody was fed.
And people went away and saysin verse 18 of Luke, chapter
nine it came about that while hewas praying alone, the
disciples were with him and hequestioned them.
He said who did it?
Who the multitudes say that Iam?
(41:12):
And they answered and said Johnthe Baptist.
And others say Elijah.
One of the prophets, one of theprophets of old, has risen again
.
Is what people are saying.
And he said to them OK, that'swho they say, but who do you say
that I am?
And Peter answered and he saidyou are the Christ of God, you
(41:37):
are the sent one, you are thechosen one, you are you.
You are the one from God, notany of those Replicas, you're
not any of those four shadowwings, not John the Baptist,
you're not Elijah, you are thereal deal, right?
Hmm, this is after they've seenhim do all these different
miracles, when they're kind ofunderstanding things, when
(41:58):
they've been with him for a longtime.
And and he answered them andinstructed them not to tell
anyone.
This right, his time wasn't upyet.
Is the reason why he still hadthings to do.
He said the son of man mustsuffer many things but he and be
rejected by the elders andchief priests and scribes and be
(42:18):
killed and raised up on thethird day.
That's that's weighty Guys.
That's that's pretty weighty Toknow that that's going to come
and you have to go through withit, right.
Mm-hmm for us.
We, we are those people now whohave to take losses in order to
(42:41):
see get a bigger victory forGod.
And that's what.
That's what Jesus was doinghere at this point.
He was taking losses.
I'm sure he wanted to tell thesepeople I didn't come here just
to feed you and he had to startthat relationship with them
right, he had to provide thoseEarthly needs so he could give
(43:03):
them the spiritual needs thatthey really didn't even know
that they needed.
And If we shut people out andwe turn away people and reject
people Before we can ever givethem the spiritual goodness that
they need, then we didn't doour job, jesus said.
(43:24):
Jesus said If anybody wishes tocome after me which we do,
right, you and I, or the threeof us we do we wish to come
after him.
Let him deny himself, take uphis cross daily and follow me,
for whoever wishes to save hislife shall lose it, but whoever
loses his life for my sake, heis the one who will save it.
(43:47):
For what is it if a man wasprofited, if he gains the whole
world and loses or forfeitshimself?
We are to take up that crossdaily, but we are to be
crucified with Christ so that wecan live with him daily and and
(44:08):
others can live with him aswell.
It's, it's one of those realtricky things when, yes, we are
to what, love the sinner buthate the sin.
But we got to love that sinnerfirst, you know, before we could
tell that we hate that sin, andI don't know that we would ever
necessarily say hate that sin.
I think about my children, and Ihave two daughters.
(44:31):
I have to be delicate with mywords.
I Haven't always accomplishedthat and then I've had to go
back and apologize for thethings I said when I didn't
accomplish that and work and Iweren't and I wasn't delicate
with my words and Trying toteach them a lesson or trying to
tell them they're wrong aboutsomething, you know I, it's
always works out better wheneverI approach them or my wife or
(44:55):
anybody else, with lovingkindness first and then Shifted
into a conversation where theyI'm trying to point out where
they're wrong, but I try to.
I try to approach that witheven an open dialogue.
This is why I think you'rewrong.
What do you think about that?
And and so I.
(45:17):
I think that that's what we haveto do with others, is what we
got to approach it like that.
We got a week.
We can't be harsh with ourwords, we have to be loving,
kindness with our words.
And then, after we build arelationship with that
Individual or those people orthat group or whatever it is,
after we have that relationshipwith them, all of a sudden, the
conversation We'll be able toturn into hey, why do you think
(45:40):
that this is wrong?
Or why do you think that thisis right?
It'll just not.
The conversations willnaturally occur.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Yeah, I think it's a good, a good approach.
You have to build a rapport.
I mean, none of us just want tobe have someone come at you
with, hey shame on you, you'rewrong.
Like that just puts yourdefenses up immediately, whether
even if you agree with them.
Like you, at that point youfeel like you have to defend
your position and and want toprove your point.
So I think I think you're right.
(46:08):
West.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Well, I know I'm right, Michelle.
It's just something that I'mtrying to convince you of
eventually.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
No built that rapport so.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
The whole, the whole text messaging on X was Pierre
trying to tell.
Figure out how he can convinceyou that he's right as well,
michelle.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Oh, he does that all the time, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
That's about being right.
I can't ask about followers.
That didn't bother me, but Imean I do.
I do what I think about.
So we think about all themiracles that take place in the
Bible, like how many of thosedon't take place if Jesus isn't
open and loving mm-hmm.
(46:51):
Think about the All themiracles we don't have If he
just turned his nose up atsomeone or told them they were.
They were doing wrong or theydid wrong in their past so he
they needed to fix themselvesbefore they could come to him.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
You know, one of the things I was thinking about
since we had that conversationwas how did he he treated the
Pharisees and the Sadducees andthe scribes?
He treated them so much, sodifferent.
Then he treated like the normal, average, average, everyday
person.
I'm sure there were Different,you know he did.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Honestly, I think he gave them equal opportunity and
they chose to react to himdifferently than normal people.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying there and at some
point to me he already knewwhere the conversation was going
to go.
Maybe he already saw what theirhearts were like, or whatever.
Maybe it's just me turning theTV on in my head.
Like I've said, I see how he'sdoing that.
Maybe I hear the tones of hisvoice differently than what they
were necessarily directed, butthat's something that I thought
(48:04):
I was like.
Ok, there you go.
There's a reason to read theGospels again.
Wes is to look at how he treatsthe Pharisees and the Sadducees
and the scribes.
See how he treats them, anddoes he treat them any
differently than just the commonperson?
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Well, and here's the thing, like I think that's human
nature because we see thesemovies and even as much as I
love the chosen right and I do,and it's helped me to bring the
Bible to life there's stillsomeone else's interpretation of
it and so that gets in our headand then when we read it we see
(48:44):
, because we've already had thatimpression, then we can apply
that to what, what we're readingRight.
So I think sometimes it is superimportant for us to do our best
to set that aside and reallyapproach it in a different
manner.
And the reason that you stay inreading your Bible daily and
maybe rereading a passage two orthree different times a week or
(49:06):
whatever like in your lifetimeHowever often that is the reason
we read it again is because wehave different experiences that
we've we've had since we read itlast and we may receive it
differently.
So you know you could readsomething for like the fifth
time and be like whoa, wait aminute.
I didn't see that last time orI didn't understand it that way
(49:27):
because I hadn't had theexperiences that I have now.
So I think it is important toput that aside sometimes and not
have those preconceived notionsabout things.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Yeah, yeah, do you think this episode was a little
more Christlike, or did we fallshort?
How do you think, pierre?
Speaker 2 (49:48):
I think it was good conversations.
I don't think an episode isgoing to be Christlike.
It's going to be what ouractions are and what the
listeners actions are beyondthis this episode.
But hopefully it puts some,some thoughts into the listeners
minds and hopefully doesn't inour own minds.
So even you talked about how toapproach your, your daughters
(50:09):
and stuff.
I'm like, yeah, I can, I can bebetter at that myself.
So it's a situation Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
So that's a plan of action.
So we get we treat our lovedones in our house maybe a little
bit differently, right we could, maybe, because I like to leave
sermons whenever I hear them orsomething you know, whenever
I'm reading the Bible.
Okay, what's my plan of actionafter this?
You know what I mean?
I'm just a plan of action kindof a guy, so I want to know what
my plan of action is after thisepisode.
(50:35):
I guess one of them is to tryto do the.
I like that.
You said that.
That.
I said that about my daughter,so I don't forget that.
I'm writing it down.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
I think your plan of action should be above all else.
It should be all of our plan ofaction.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Okay, all right, michelle.
What about you?
What do you think a plan ofaction was from this one?
Speaker 3 (50:58):
I actually agree with PR on this one.
I think that it sounds sosimple to just say that should
be our plan of action, but man,to put that into action is
sometimes very difficult when itgoes against what we believe,
how we feel, maybe even ourexperiences that we've had bad
(51:22):
experiences in the past fromcertain things Like to just be
loving, even if we don't acceptit Like it.
I think it's.
It's so easy to say and so verydifficult to do.
So I do agree with him and Ithink that is just a constant.
(51:43):
It's going to be a constantbattle and a struggle, some more
than others, but yeah, I think,I think that is the takeaway in
general.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
I have two plans of action.
One I'm going to get the vacuumcleaner and suck up all those
Legos laying all over the floor.
That's one of the plans I'mgoing to do, and number two is
tomorrow.
No, it doesn't matter what dayit is, because whenever you
listen to this episode, you can.
You can maybe take the sameplan of action.
I'm going to get uncomfortableand I'm going to meet somebody
(52:15):
who I don't know their name, butyet they look kind of scary to
me.
Okay, and I say scary, I justmean like they're out of my
comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
You know they don't get like wrong or something.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
No, no, I mean because I'm in a lot of stores
all the time and I get to see alot of people and I'm I'm all
over the place.
So there's a lot of strangecharacters that come.
I'm going to find out theirname.
You got it.
I'm going to find out theirname.
I'm going to introduce myselfto some somehow, some way, and I
will find out their name aswell and we'll see.
(52:47):
We'll see where theconversation goes from there.
How about that?
That's my plan of action.
And I say scary, I hope.
I hope you understand.
I just mean out of my comfortzone.
Speaker 3 (52:57):
Yes, scary for you.
Yes, that was scary for me.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
I scared, I'm scared.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
If you are a dog, you're scared of the vacuum
cleaner.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
So that's, that's what I'm going to try to do.
So I appreciate you guysspurring me on to good works
here on the Finding Faith andLosing Sleep Podcast, and we
will encourage you the listenersout there in Jordan or wherever
you are listening we willencourage you to try and leave a
review.
You can slap the stars aroundor you can do whatever you can
do to leave a review on thepodcast listening form platform
(53:31):
You're listening to us on.
That would be great as well.
That would be a plan of action,and the only reason why is
because we love to hear from you, pierre.
You have we still have yet tohave a question and answer
session from questions from thelisteners or anything like that,
but I am still hoping for thatone day, I hope so too.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
I've even asked a couple of folks that I know
listen and they're like you guysexplain things too well for us
to have questions, which wasnice, but I'm like we still we
still got to get Westiesquestions because he's he's
itching at it.
So, yes, if you can't email usfinding faith dot losing sleep
at gmailcom, if any question youmay want us to ask, you can
also hit us up on Twitter.
(54:09):
Slash X at finding faith pot.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yes, or leave a comment on whatever listening
platform you like to listen tothe show on that would work as
well and tell us your plan ofaction.
From this episode or any of thepast episodes.
You can always go back andlisten to those archives.
I think that those episodeswill always be pertinent.
I don't think that we werenecessarily time sensitive on
those things, so I think you canalways glean a little bit of
wisdom from any of those pastepisodes and I look forward to
(54:34):
future episodes as well.
And you pray for us and we willpray for you.
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