Have you ever stood at the edge of the unknown, where the stories of near-death experiences (NDE's) tempt the imagination with possibilities of what lies beyond? Our latest episode embarks on a profound exploration, drawing from the heart-rending narratives of those in Pierre's men's group and the introspective musings of Michelle from a childhood friend's perspective. Together, we traverse the enigmatic landscape of out-of-body episodes and the weight of spiritual awakenings.
Music can be a bridge to those we've lost, a theme ever-present in this podcast as we share anecdotes of melodies that hold a special resonance, evoking memories and perhaps even messages from the beyond. We recount tales of songs stirring deep emotions and the uncanny experiences of hearing significant tunes at just the right moment. These stories serve as an invitation to reflect on the signs we all seek - those affirmations of continued existence and the profound impact they have on our lives and beliefs.
Closing our session with a contemplation on the nature of faith, we recognize the deeply personal journey each of us takes towards or away from belief. We welcome you (our listeners) to engage with us and share your own experiences, providing a space for dialogue and understanding. Whether you find solace in the shared affirmations of faith during Easter or grapple with the mysteries of reincarnation and parallel timelines, this episode promises a communal voyage into the heart of human experience and the eternal questions that accompany it.
Email: findingfaith.losingsleep@gmail.com
Twitter: @FindingFaithPod
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
It's time to wake up and pray up here on the Finding
Faith and Losing Sleep podcast.
Oh, I'm Wes Easley.
What are your hopes?
And I am on location today,outside, in the very windy,
windy conditions that I'm in,watching my eight-year-old run
around and play with somefriends who are on spring break.
And I break that news to youbecause Pierre said that he was
(00:26):
also on a little spring breakhimself and that there are
screaming kids outside hiswindow or something.
What'd you say, pierre?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, yeah, also on destination location, and it's
windy here as well.
But yeah, there's a couple kidsthat are out in the little
gathering section outsideplaying Cornhole and one's just
screaming bloody murder.
So if you pick that up,apologies, he's very excited.
But yeah, yeah, it's nice to beon spring break, have a little
(00:54):
time off and work, join somefamily time and decide it was
time to get another episode out.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
It's definitely time to get another episode out.
It's definitely there.
So if you hear screaming andeverything, don't think it's us,
it's them.
Ok, I've got curious kids in myneighborhood as well and I'm
telling you they're going tocome up here, they're going to
start pushing buttons andeverything.
And if you hear screaming kids,it may be me.
Chastising them is what it maybe All right, but I'm doing it
for the show.
I'm doing it for the show.
Ok, that's Michelle who isjoining Pierre, and I didn't
(01:25):
know what this topic was evenabout.
Pierre.
You sent me a show notes.
We don't do a lot of show notes, so it was just like a
paragraph for a sentence.
And you said, hey, let's do ashow on this.
And notice, I'm not giving awaywhat the show is about, yet,
I'm kind of teasing things andyou gave me the initials like
three letters and I didn't knowwhat it was.
(01:45):
And I just sat there and Ilooked at it and I thought about
it and I'm like, what is hetrying to say?
And so I just let it sit therefor a minute and then I asked
you what is this?
And then you told me what itwas and the only thing that I
could come up with was that you,michelle, got into a fight and
she just about killed you.
That's why you wanted to goover this episode, not yet what
(02:07):
is this?
What is this episode?
Pierre Tell the listeners, letthem in on what our conversation
was to start this.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, so the initials I sent you were NDE, so I'll
let the listeners sit on thatfor a moment to see if they know
what that is.
And, honestly, it's justsomething that has been popping
up in my life, just searchingand rabbit holes that I've gone
down, and I had a situationrecently, actually in my men's
(02:36):
group, where someone experiencedone of these and they start
talking about their situation aswell and I'm like, okay, this
might be something that we wantto have a conversation about,
because there's a lot ofpossibilities, I feel, with this
topic and I feel like it wasgood to just talk about it and
see what other thoughts are andmaybe even get some listener
(02:59):
involvement at the end and havethem kind of leave feedback,
which you can atfindingfafelosingsleep, at
gbocom, also on the X slashTwitter machine at
findingfafepod.
But we'll get to that once wedive in.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
All right, and, michelle, he said that this is
coming up a lot in his life.
I don't know if he said ourlife or not, meaning yours and
his, I don't know, but can youtell the listeners what this
topic is about and what theworld Pierre is talking about?
I sure?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
can.
It's near-death experiences andit's kind of Pierre's rabbit
hole, but we have had somediscussions about it and there
were a couple of things thatI've had in my past not myself
personally, but at least oneperson that I know that had a
situation like that, and so it'scome up in our conversation.
(03:48):
But this has kind of been hisbaby and he talks to me about it
.
He'll say, OK, so this is whatI heard now and this is what I
saw this time and what do youthink about this?
And honestly, he would have totell you this part.
But I think some of it cameabout because maybe because I
(04:11):
was struggling with that myself.
So I'll talk about that.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah.
So one of her situations,obviously through the cancer
battle that she's been goingthrough and has went through,
which a lot of listeners theylisten to any episodes would
probably know that was kind oflike what happens once you pass.
Because, honestly, some thingscan be conflicting even within
(04:41):
the Bible itself when you speakto whether you are going to
remember your loved ones evenonce you're beyond this life.
Are you going to remember thosethat took place here on Earth.
And it's honestly a conflictBecause some things say that you
won't remember anything at thispoint and it's all joy and
(05:04):
happiness.
But what's that joy andhappiness if you don't remember
your life here?
But on the flip side, I starteddiving into some of these
experiences and even someexamples.
You see loved ones and stuff onthe other side, so I was like,
well, what's the answer there?
So that's kind of how I starteddiving into it and there's
(05:26):
there's just so much to go intoand I mean, what's your thoughts
?
What do you think New deathexperiences are real?
Do you believe in them yourself?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I think near near death experiences are real.
You're talking to somebodywho's been in over 20 car wrecks
, so I believe that that is real, because I've almost died who
knows how many times, you knowdon't write West noted.
OK.
So, yes, this is, this is oneof those conversations and this
is what the podcast is about.
It's that's what the name comesfrom finding faith and losing
(05:59):
sleep podcast.
There's we lose sleep thinkingabout some of these things and
how they just don't dive rightWith what we see, what we hear,
what people tell us.
And then we get to the Bibleand we start looking at what the
Bible says.
It's just like, ok, wait aminute, here, this is you put it
all together and it justdoesn't.
It just doesn't sit well rightIn my mind.
(06:21):
It just doesn't sit well.
So I've heard of a lot ofexperiences as well, and I don't
know if you've ever talked toanybody who's ever worked in the
hospice field.
Boy, I think they have somestories.
Ok, they have some stories ofthings and it's it's definitely
one of those times in somebody'slife, whenever they're on the
(06:44):
verge of death, that that peoplewant to say that they're
starting to see things.
They're just, they're kind ofgetting delirious.
I don't know, you know, it'skind of like, ok, maybe they
aren't seeing things like theywere, but that doesn't mean
they're not seeing things.
Yeah, you, almost.
I want to.
I want to give people somewhatthe benefit of the doubt that
(07:07):
they're still cognitive.
Ok, I got, I saw my greatgrandmother, ma'am all Ma'am all
was her name and she wasunresponsive, in a hospital bed.
It felt like for days, I don'tknow, we were a whole family,
was up there and everything fora long time.
So I'm not sure how long thetime was that she was
(07:27):
unresponsive, but it wasunresponsive for days.
And then her, her granddaughter, my aunt, she said she said
Ma'am all, you want some snuff?
Because Ma'am all that tooksnuff, which is like chewing
tobacco, you know.
So she said, she said, ma'amall, you want some snuff.
And and my memoir squeezed herfinger.
(07:49):
You know, squeeze my, squeezemy aunt's finger.
So is it?
Could she?
And I'm telling you she'sunresponsive.
You talk to her, she isunresponsive.
But at that time she couldunderstand, she could hear and
there was no doubt that shewanted snuff.
So I kind of want to givepeople the benefit of the doubt,
but at the same time I don'tknow that we'll ever have those
(08:11):
true answers, pierre andMichelle, because until we go
through it and experience it,yeah, and then we might not be
able to convey what we're Havingis the truth and people will
just doubt us.
I always want to give peoplethe benefit of doubt, though.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, I need to.
I don't know if I I want toexperience it Is the need that
something probably went wrong inorder to get to that point.
So I'm fine just going down therabbit holes of others, but I
know what Michelle can, can talkon this, on your friend and
that that kind of has situationif you can dive into kind of
(08:50):
what took place there.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, I dated a guy in high school who, without
saying names, he was out runningand was hit by a car and passed
away on the operating operatingroom table and they brought him
back.
And when they brought him backhe said it directly immediately.
(09:13):
When he saw his mom he said itwas the strangest thing that he
was like there was a kid in hisclass who had passed away
previously, I believe, of abrain aneurysm.
And when he saw him he said,well, what are you?
He saw the kid and he's like,what are you doing here?
You're not supposed to be hereyet.
And that's when he woke up inthe operating room.
(09:35):
So he was not one of thosepeople that embellishes anything
.
He was pretty straightforwardand just.
You know, matter of fact, andso I didn't have any reason, or
don't have any reason to notbelieve what here is.
Mom said, and you know it'sjust, he was pretty shaken by
(09:57):
that and I don't I can't saythat I know what his faith level
was or what his parents faithlevel was.
So at that, at that time In mylife, it wasn't really about a
faith journey, so to speak, butmore so just like, wow, like.
So you know the the fact thathe saw somebody that he knew and
then when the kids said, hey,you're not supposed to be here
yet, it's not your time, that'swhen he wakes up.
(10:18):
So I had told Pierre about thatand that was just one of the
conversations that we'd had.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, that's trippy.
See, I like these kind ofthings because it's the only
category I could put this stuffin is like ghost stories, you
know what I mean.
Like, and I'm not saying thatman's experience, their boys
experience, was a ghost story oranything like that, but that's
just how I that's the box I haveto put it in that I, I don't
know, I'm, I wasn't there.
(10:47):
Yeah, I've heard the story andthe people telling the story are
just you can see it in theireyes.
They believe it, you know, theyknow it's as right as rain.
So, like that's back to them.
Yeah, yeah.
And so I?
That's what I mean aboutwanting to give people the
benefit of the doubt, and Idon't want to discredit.
(11:08):
Oh, they're crazy.
Oh, I'm just delirious now.
I you know, but I will say thatat the same time, I Know myself,
mm-hmm, if, if I'm in a dreamstate, if I'm dreaming, you know
asleep or whatever, on the sofaor or in the bed at night, or
anything like that, and then youhave one of those dreams where
(11:29):
You're, you're, you're doingsomething, right, you're just
doing something in the dream andyou wake up and that something
is right there in front of you,almost Whether it's somebody
about.
You know, you're like about totalk to somebody, and then that
person puts their hand on yourshoulders and then my daughter,
who's eight years old, isstanding right in front of me
and her hand is on my shoulder.
(11:50):
You know, yeah, so it's.
It's kind of one of thosethings where the mind somewhat
knows what's going on, but thebody's just not catching up to
the mind and the mind's tryingto wake up your body in all that
.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Subconscious versus consciously.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, but how you know?
I mean, did my ears, did myears hear that?
Obviously my eyes were closed,so I didn't see it?
I don't think, but you knowyour ears here.
Maybe maybe I smelled her,maybe some of those other senses
were taking over, or whatever,but it, the my mind, was
enabling me to know what wasgoing on and and giving me that
(12:28):
power to wake up and addresswhatever the situation was.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Oh yeah, I used to full on frustrate the heck out
of my mom because she would tryto wake me up and I Would be mad
at her knowing, like in mysomewhat Conscious, I suppose,
state, like if I was asleep andshe's trying to wake me up, I
would be having a conversation,one conversation.
She's having a totallydifferent conversation with me
and we just be arguing likewhile I'm half asleep.
(12:52):
Like it was just crazy and Iknow it would frustrate the heck
out of her sometimes, but Ithink that's just where
subconscious takes over and ourconscious mind isn't, you know,
fully capturing what we'retrying to do.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I Don't know if I have those conscious or
subconscious moments, my myself,but I, so I know the experience
that I I recently kind of setin on Was a member of my men's
group and again, I won't namenames either but Something I
also noticed that takes place alot in the, the near-death
(13:28):
experience, rabbit holes.
I come, I come across her likeout-of-body type of experiences
and I Hadn't talked to this.
This guy, he was actually newerto our group at the time and he
actually told us, on his ownyou know a story that he he
basically tried to take his lifea few years back, took some
(13:52):
sleeping pills I believe he saidit was a 162 sleeping pills at
once.
He said he knew it because hehe went out to get as many that
he could afford at the time witha goal in mind of taking his
life and he took him andApparently he he had an
(14:13):
out-of-body experience where hehe could see himself, as you
often hear, like on the, thehospital bed and, you know, saw
folks working on him, pumpinghis stomach etc.
And he didn't feel any pain.
He said he felt a presence andat one point he wondered if it
was his dad, but he said it wasjust a different A type of
(14:35):
presence, to the point where hehe personally feels it was Jesus
, they're hovering with him.
And he said he felt like a love, but then he felt like a worry,
realizing what he had done andwhat the ultimate result for him
was going to be, knowing thathe, you know, had committed
(14:55):
suicide.
And he said, the moment that hefelt that worry he like shot
Back in his body and was revised.
He's like whoa, I can't believethat just happened.
He remembered it, all that tookplace.
And when I watch differentvideos I see that as well, where
you see people all of a suddenin operating rooms and parks
(15:15):
that basically feel like they'vejust had an out-of-body
experience, where they see whatthey know is their body and it's
just looked at as like a vesselthat they're now relieved from
and the weight's kind of liftedand it's just a different impact
and experience.
So yeah, I get curious aboutthat, but I don't want to
(15:37):
necessarily be in that situationmyself, to where I'm looking at
my body like, uh-oh, what justhappened?
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, no, I.
Yes, there's different phasesof like meditation and your, if
you can ever reach the point notthat I ever meditate, I don't
know like this or anything.
All right, when I'm meditating,I'm maybe just thinking about
God, I'm doing stuff like that,but I'm not oh kind of
(16:04):
meditation or anything like that.
Yeah, but you're supposed to beable to reach different planes
and platitudes, maybe, if that'sthe correct word of
consciousness you know, and tobe able to have those
out-of-body experiences.
I used to listen to a littleradio show on AM Radio, a
coast-to-coast AM with Art Pell,and they used to talk about.
(16:26):
People used to dial up and talkabout those kind of things.
It was very strange to listento because you just you don't
get taught those things.
You know, you just don't gettaught them.
Interesting though that we'retalking about this topic and
it's all kind of circling aroundto something that I've been
doing too.
I've been on this chronologicalBible in a year path and I love
(16:48):
to listen to it.
All right, I love to listen toit, and just within the I want
to say today's reading, but I'mlike days ahead because I'll
listen and I'll just be like,all right, I'm going, I'm just
going, I'm with the whole thingto think.
You know how I am here, you knowhow I am here, but so anyway, I
don't know if it's today'sreading or whatever, but it was
in Job, chapter 14.
(17:08):
And of course we know Job is inthis turmoil and he's just
heartbroken, he's lost hisfamily and he's just questioning
life and all these things.
And while I was listening to itand, by the way, I think it's
the guy from Seinfeld who'sreading it I don't know who's
reading this, it's the amp.
I don't even know what Bibleversion it is, but the guy who's
(17:30):
reading it is the guy who wasthe head of the company that
talks like this.
Do you know who I'm talkingabout?
On Seinfeld.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
No.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
No.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I don't watch.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Seinfeld.
He's got the blonde hair, he'slike the CEO of the company and
he goes on all these huntingexcursions and stuff.
I haven't watched Seinfeld inyears but I just remember the
guy.
He talked like this and so, ashe's reading the Bible, I'm like
, oh, this is so cool, he's justreading it.
Maybe I'll try to do hisimpression of him reading the
(18:01):
Bible.
How frail is humanity.
How short is life.
I can't do it.
How full of trouble.
We blossom like a flower andthen we wither Like a passing
shadow.
We quickly disappear.
You must keep an eye on such afrail creature and demand an
accounting for me.
Who can bring purity out of animpure person?
No one.
You have decided the length ofour lives.
You know how many months wewill live and we are not given a
(18:24):
minute longer.
So leave us alone and let usrest.
He's kind of begging God hereto just let me die.
Quit messing with me.
That was just Job's mentality atthis point.
But I was thinking about how hedefinitely didn't believe in
reincarnation whenever I waslistening to Job, chapter 14.
(18:46):
Because he's like once you die,it's over, it's done.
And I think about those kind ofrumors, speculations that we
hear a lot.
And I'm not saying what Jobsaid is gospel.
Okay, job was a man and he wasgoing under some severe dress at
(19:07):
this point.
And I'm not saying he was beingprophetic.
I'm not telling anybody that hewas explaining the ways of the
world and the ways of theafterlife to anyone.
I'm just telling you what hisopinion was.
And in Job, chapter 14, we seethat.
And then he talks about youalways overpower people and then
they pass away.
You disfigure them in death andsend them away.
(19:28):
They never know if theirchildren grow up in honor or
sink to insignificance.
They suffer painfully and theirlife is full of trouble, just
meaning that when you die youdon't look down on people from
heaven.
You know what I mean when youhear people say well, I know
he's looking down on us rightnow and he's happy.
I've heard people say that kindof stuff, like about my father
(19:50):
or whatever.
Job obviously didn't think that, or maybe he didn't know that
that was the way it was going tobe in life after death or
anything.
He just didn't know.
So I just thought that wasinteresting that we're talking
about this, and I was thinkingabout all these different rumors
and speculations that peoplehave that keep people up at
night.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Well, with all the rabbit holes I've gone down and,
trust me, I've gone down somany at this point there's never
been one in which they'vespoken to seeing what's taking
place, like currently, like,besides, looking down in the
moment at themselves before theyreturn to the body, like the
(20:34):
rest of it's like not aboutseeing loved ones for the most
part which is pretty interestingbecause, again, that was one of
Michelle's concerns but whenyou think about there being like
, no pain, no sorrow, I feellike that would be you not
getting a glimpse into the world.
(20:57):
Unless you're in a state of aspirit where you simply can't
like it's impossible for you tofill those emotions.
Like, how could you look downat today's world, regardless of
what side of the world you're on, and see your family still
(21:19):
going through a sinful type ofworld and being pain, sorrows,
become deaf, other type ofsituations?
How could you look down uponthat and have your voice still
would be a question there.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
And that's what I truly struggled with and I think
that kind of kickstarted all ofthis is.
I was truly struggling withthat whole thing and like I get
it, because if you could lookdown and you see your family
struggling, like you would besad and if you're supposed to be
in a joyful state, that kind ofcontradicts what should be
(21:58):
happening.
At the same time, I do believethat I still believe that God
will allow signs, kind of liketo say, to give us some peace
while we're here, when we'requestioning if that person that
we're thinking of is seeing us.
(22:19):
And the reason I say that firstand foremost is and I think
I've talked about thispreviously, but way back when,
when I was in high school, therewas a boy that the first time I
saw the back of his head I knew, like I knew my own name.
I was gonna marry him and fastforward.
(22:39):
We never actually got to dateand I felt it in my own being
when he passed away and it wasshortly after I had graduated
and fast forward probably 20years and for a long time.
That's kind of how.
And here's a bizarre little funfact the day he died is
(23:01):
actually Pierre's birthday andalso the day Olivia was due.
But I I, for a long time Ithought about him every day and
it was like, okay, well, ifthere was one person for me now
in my what now?
And if that's the fact, am Ijust settling?
(23:21):
And like that was always kindof the thought in my head.
And for many years I thoughtabout him constantly, even when
I was in a relationship.
I just mourned that loss.
And when Pierre came in my lifeit was more few and far between
, and I, you know, I would godays and then weeks and maybe
(23:42):
have a thought.
And then it was months, and oneday in particular, olivia was,
I don't know, maybe two or three.
It had been a while since I'dthought about him and I was
driving home from work and Ijust was struggling, like why is
he so, like, why am I feelingso heavy about this today?
And I didn't want to bring thatinto the house with me, but it
(24:04):
was just kind of still on mymind and all of a sudden it
dawned on me like I just don'tknow if he's in heaven.
I think that's what's botheringme.
I don't know where he went, Idon't know what that
relationship looked like, and soI just kind of said a prayer
sitting there and I was like,okay, god, I think I can let
this go if I just know that he'swith you.
(24:25):
Like can you just give me asign?
And at his funeral they hadplayed Cats in the Cradle
because his father had passedaway previously.
And the moment I said thatPierre, who I'm not sure knew
the new Cats in the Cradle,busts out singing Cats in the
(24:47):
Cradle, and I'm telling you tothis day it still gives me
goosebumps.
Because I just looked at himand I was like whoa, it's still
one of the craziest thingsthat's ever happened.
And for me that was just the.
It's okay, michelle, like youcan let it go.
Like now you can just be happy,you're where you're supposed to
(25:07):
be.
You know I can work all thingsfor good.
This is where you were meant tobe in the first place.
But having him break out inthat, in that instant he just
was like you look like you'veseen a ghost and I'm like kind
of feel like I have.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
And that's why I like you, Michelle, because you have
a lot of ghost stories.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I'm just going to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
You freak me out sometimes I don't know if that's
good for Pierre.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I have one as well and I think I talked about it.
So when I heard of my mom'spassing, we were in Cincinnati.
We had just taken in our Cubsand Reds game the night before,
and so the first time back toCincinnati since that happened
was a Packers and Bengals gamethat we were going to for
(25:54):
Michelle, and it was just toughfeelings, knowing the
surroundings a stadium, a hotelI was at one and I got that call
in the morning, so it was justkind of an uneasy feeling.
And walking into the stadiumthere's a song by Chumbawamba
Chumbawamba called Tup Dumpingthat my mom used to love, just
(26:18):
because it had vodka drinkingthere.
She loved vodka and that washer.
You take a risky drink, youtake a vodka drink, and it talks
about getting knocked down,getting back up again, which was
kind of her fighting song, soto speak.
And so I'm like, ok, it'sreally odd that this song is
playing as soon as we're walkinginto the stadium.
(26:40):
It's an older song for one andthis was just a couple of years
ago that took place.
I'm like, all right, I justkind of brushed it aside.
So walking out the stadium afterthe package of one and like
overtime, there's this streetmusician with like a saxophone
playing and he's not playinganything.
At the time that we're walking,like I can see him.
(27:02):
He's just kind of getting setup.
And as soon as I walk up by him, he starts to play the
Flintstones on a saxophone.
And I'm like, all right, yougot to be kidding me now,
because that was my mom'sfavorite cartoon, and again he
wasn't playing anythingwhatsoever.
And the moment I got like rightin front of him, it starts to
(27:23):
doon and doon and doon.
And I look back at Michelle andshe just kind of acknowledged
the fact that it was playing andI'm like now what are the odds
that I hear a song going in?
And I'm like, yeah, it's just asong.
I hear a song coming out andit's the Flintstones, which
hasn't aired and I don't knowhow long, and the guy's not
(27:45):
playing anything until you getup to that point.
So for me that was just again asign that my mom was there and
wanted me to feel OK, being backin Cincinnati for the first
time.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
See, I know you two a little bit Now.
I've never seen you face toface.
You guys might look like abunch of lunatics, I don't know,
but I think I know you.
I've known Pierre for quitesome time now, and no Michelle
as well through Pierre and evengot a wonderful Christmas card
in the mail from you guys.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It must look like lunatics apparently.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
So that's why I want to say you guys are crazy.
I've talked to you, I know youguys a little bit and I can't
discredit your own accounts.
And it's too coincidental tojust be random.
You know what I mean, thespecific songs, and that's how
(28:49):
you start knowing, in my opinion, whether or not people are
telling the truth, whetherthey're lying, all those things.
First of all, is there storyjive together over a couple of
times of hearing it?
Right, and I've heard yourstory a couple of times,
michelle, I think, like you said, you've talked about it.
Now, pierre, I'm not sure thatyou've ever talked about that
story in depth like that with meor anything, but I remember
(29:11):
details and you guys were bothtelling specific details, using
names, using locations, not justsome random off-the-cuff kind
of facts you know or pretendfacts.
So that's how you kind of tellwhether or not people are
telling the truth or whether ornot they're lying.
And that's why I would want togive you guys the benefit of the
doubt that, wow, what theyexperience is real and what they
(29:34):
went through is real, and so Idon't want to discredit that.
And so I look at something likeJob in Job, chapter 14,
whenever I did.
And I think about what Job isdoing and what Job is going
through.
And you know, maybe Job justdoesn't know those intricacies
of the afterlife because he'snever experienced it.
(29:55):
So that's some things I thinkabout with that.
Now, biblically speaking, thereare people who died and came
back but we don't really getlike insight into what they saw
or what they did.
I think about the widow's son,when it was either Elijah or
Elisha, you know, raised himfrom the dead and everything
like that.
But we don't get details ofwhat things are like.
(30:18):
It just seems like everythingis honky-dory afterwards.
Think about Jerry and hisdaughter and how his daughter
was raised from the dead.
Everything ever changed afterthat, just a honky-dory,
everything is fine, everything'sperfect.
You know we don't get anyinsight there.
But Peter, you brought up oneand I have one too, whenever
(30:39):
Paul starts writing about histime, I guess in 1 Corinthians,
chapter 12, right, or 2Corinthians chapter 12.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, whenever he talks about the thorn in the
flesh and he just he goesthrough that incident with him
and it seems like he had some,you know, being called up into a
third heaven, right, and itjust like out of body experience
, maybe on a different plane.
Am I going to say that Paul wasnuts and discredited everything
(31:10):
else he said?
Well, is he a lunatic?
He doesn't know what he'stalking about.
Well, that guy was crazy.
You know I can't do that andthen still count all of his
other writings as things I needto live by.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well, I think that's what kind of prevents some folks
from telling their truth isthey don't want to come off like
they're crazy or a lunatic.
And I mean you'll see it.
So I tell Michelle this so ifyou go on YouTube and you watch
a bunch of NDE videos, you'relike, okay, who's being real,
(31:44):
who's in it for like their 15minutes of fame.
But what do I tell you?
Pulls me to that even more.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
He'll always say that it's when he it's not
necessarily the people that arein the videos but like the
people commenting becausethey're not in it for anything,
it's the comment.
He typically goes to thecomment section and kind of goes
through those because thosepeople aren't the ones that are
like necessarily putting theirvideos out there, like for their
(32:14):
like, quote unquote 15 minutesof fame.
It's more of this is what Iexperienced, or whatever.
They're not looking for areason other than that to do it.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah, no views, no clicks, or just hey, thanks for
sharing.
Let me share in front of a muchlesser audience, with nothing
uploaded, and there's tons ofthem, like there's so many that
take place and like I mean, whatare the odds that all of these
experiences are just made up?
(32:45):
To me, that's slim to none.
And you'll see, like folks say,I don't really share this
because I don't want people tothink I'm crazy, or I try to
tell my family and they thoughtI was nuts.
But, since you have a similarexperience, I wanna share what I
went through, and for me thatmeans more than the videos.
(33:08):
I want those behind the scenesthat are just trying to share
just to the again, the lesseraudience, just to share the
experience and not to get anytype of monetary value, cause I
know, oh, it's the movie.
Heaven is for real.
I think it was a big popularmovie with the kid.
I wanna say the thing wasColton that basically said he
(33:31):
experienced heaven.
And you see the aftermath ofthat with all the media, all the
public attention.
Whether he wanted that or not,or his family, is one thing, but
if you have someone that's notin it for that whatsoever,
that's just trying to share incomments what they went through,
that just hits another nervefor me.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
No, I get what you're saying and some people do seem
to be after it for their owngreed and all that.
And we understand that.
I say understand it.
I don't understand it, but Iunderstand that people will do
that.
But you look at Paul and talkabout going up to the third
heaven.
We even go over to John in thebook of Revelation whenever he
(34:12):
starts wigging out, I guess, andjust writing all those things.
But he says I, john, yourbrother, fellow partaker, in the
tribulation, in the kingdom ofperseverance which is in Jesus
Christ, was on the island calledPatmos.
Because of the word of God andthe testimony of Jesus, I was in
the spirit on the Lord's dayand I heard behind me a loud
voice like the sound of atrumpet.
(34:33):
And there it goes.
Then there goes the book ofRevelation, right, but John says
he was in the spirit on theLord's day.
What does that mean?
And people will just want tosay well, we'll never have the
complete understanding of whatthe Bible says with John and we
just won't ever understand untilwe get to heaven.
Okay, I can accept that.
I can understand that that's aneasy way out, but I don't want
(34:59):
to discredit other people'schaotic times in their life.
I don't know, chaotic is there?
Not chaotic, but experiences intheir life where maybe they
were in the spirit.
I don't know.
I don't know what it was and Ido want to reach out and tell
people on the Finding Faith inLosing Sleep podcast listeners,
if you've had an experience likethat and you want to share it
(35:21):
with somebody.
We won't tell a soul unless youtell us hey, I don't care if
you share it or not.
You can tell us.
Pierre's good about readingthose things.
I doubt Michelle reads thosethings because she'll just be
sitting there crying all daylong and I don't know how to do
it.
So Pierre's good at that.
If you want to share thosethings and get them off your
(35:43):
chest, just because it bothersyou, it keeps you up at night,
I'll encourage you to get intouch with us through those ways
that Pierre mentioned earlierin the show and we'll mention
them again here at the end ofthe show and just let them out,
cause that's what we're here todo.
We're here to listen, we're hereto talk when and you guys have
heard me enough times, you'veheard Michelle enough times,
you've heard Pierre enough timesto know that we aren't gonna
(36:05):
think you're crazy.
Because even if we do thinkyou're crazy, you can say well,
you're crazier than me.
I hope you know.
That's some of the things.
Whenever I've worked withpeople who are chemically
dependent, they look at me andsay you know, if that guy right
there can make it out ofchemical dependency talking
about me, I know I can, becausehe's a lot worse off than I am.
(36:26):
You know that's just how theythink and I hope that's kind of
how our podcast comes acrossthat we're just average,
everyday people trying to workout our salvation with fear and
trembling.
That's what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, I mean that's the whole reason we put it
together is we're not big timescholars or, you know,
theologians, and we're justaverage people doing life,
talking through life.
You know some touchy subjectsand some thoughtful subjects,
and, again, just conversing andhaving, hopefully, open
(37:02):
conversations that are reachingothers.
And I personally felt this onewasn't important because I think
you know, clearly deaf, thebiggest fear, question mark For
humans, both their own lives andthe lives of their family and
friends.
And when there's ever reallytrue, deep sorrow, it comes from
(37:26):
the unknown of.
You know well, I ever see thisperson again.
You're looking at yourself.
Will they ever, you know, seeme again?
Will it be okay when I'm gone?
You know what does that mean.
And I think that you knowIndies can kind of give hope to
some extent, because they're notall good.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Like there's some dark ones.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
People are seeing the other side of things, but just
the thought of there being youknow something more I think can
help.
And again, you look at Jesushimself.
Right, you know he was on thecross.
What happened?
You know it was three days.
You listen to some of thebiblical scholars.
(38:11):
They believed.
You know he went down and youknow in the hell and took the
keys from.
You know Hades himself is whatsome believe took place and his
own afterlife.
Then he came back.
You know resurrection, whichwill be celebrating here in a
few days.
So I mean, it's just, it'salways been a thought, I think,
on many, many, many minds.
So I felt like it was good tohave a conversation.
(38:33):
So you speak about, you know,no reincarnation.
The Bible doesn't mention anyreincarnation, but a peace
interest.
You know, because some peoplesay, you know they get up there
and they come back and theyremember who they were in a past
life and it's like, okay, isthis real?
Are they wacko?
I mean, we don't know.
That's the thing we don't know.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Well, and going back to what Michelle said with the
young man, she knew from theback of her, back of his head
that she was like, oh, destin,to marry him.
You know why did that thoughtcome in your mind?
Why, when I first saw my wifein the library, first time I saw
her, I told my buddy, I saidwho is that?
And he told me her name and Isaid I'm gonna marry her.
(39:13):
Now, look, you guys know I wasa lot dumber at 18 than I am
even now.
Okay, I can't.
How did I know that?
Was it pretty, destin?
Was it one of those things thatjust uttered out of my mouth
and it came to fruition?
Speaker 3 (39:31):
How do you know it was?
For me it was super weirdbecause I had a boyfriend, a
long-term boyfriend at the time.
So I was at a new school and Iwalked in, saw just the back of
his head and knew it, like Iknew my own name.
So I don't have an answer forthat one.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Very comforting for the boyfriend, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
And my future wife had a boyfriend at the time too,
but he was just no match for myswive.
What's the way out?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Well, so here we go, rabbit hope here coming out.
So, one of the a couple oftimes I've watched some of these
NDE's that are already readinto them, they speak to
basically their life beingplayed in front of them and that
they were ultimately on acontract where they knew what
(40:18):
was gonna take place.
So, for example, our livesright now.
Some would say that we chosethese lives and the reason that
we have you know those oh I knowI'm gonna marry her or day job
moments like I've been somewherethat I shouldn't have been
before is because it's actuallyplayed out in front of us and we
(40:40):
chose to come to Earth and livethis life.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
And that's it.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Okay, now, okay, now I'll even.
Can I tell you crazy West stuff?
Okay, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I've been looking for crazy West every once in a
while.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
So there's theories out there that these are all
different timelines.
Right, we're all differenttimelines and sometimes those
timelines interact with oneanother.
Now there's a big machine overin Sweden.
I wanna say Switzerland, sweden, I don't know, I've never been
over there.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
And I don't know what that accent was, but I don't
think it's Swiss or Sweden butgo ahead.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I think it was a Swedish or really an accent, but
it's a CERN machine, c-e-r-n,and you can Google it and you
can see the opening ceremonies.
And if you ever watched, like,the opening ceremonies of CERN
and their dedication ceremonies,you'll go wow, that is
conjuring up some very weirdstuff.
It looks like you know, it'sjust weird.
And what they do there isthey're trying to find the God
(41:40):
particle and that God particlethey got huge reactors, I guess.
Look this, I'm a simple breadman.
Some of this stuff goes abovemy head.
This I'm just explaining it inbread man language is all I'm
trying to do and it may not be100% accurate everybody.
But they're knocking aroundparticles and they're trying to
find the God particle, they'retrying to create things, but
(42:02):
whenever they're doing that,what people hypothesize is that
they're knocking around some ofthe timelines, right, and they
crank up those generators orthey crank up those reactors or
whatever they're doing, and it'sknocking around some of the
timelines.
And that's where we have someof the Mandela effect.
That's out there, where youremember something and you
(42:23):
remember specifically it beingthis way.
But now, thanks to Google,where we can go back in time,
right, and look at it and it'snot that way, but yet you're
positive.
It was that way, like the wayJif was spelled, or whether or
not the whole thing is.
Mandela died and everybodyremembers Mandela dying, but
then he died again andeverybody's like wait a minute,
(42:45):
I thought he already died and hedidn't.
He didn't die, he was in thehospital.
I believe it was near death,but everybody remembers him
dying and then he didn't die forlike eight years later.
I may not know the exact time,whether or not the fruit of a
loom logo from when I wasgrowing up as a kid, whether or
not that had that little wickerbasket behind it or not, or
(43:07):
whether all the things were inthe wicker bag.
And it doesn't, but it did whenI was growing up as a kid.
Flintstones, pierre.
Is it Flintstones, or is itFlintstones when you're watching
it as a kid?
How was it spelled?
Hannah Barbera, how was itspelled?
Speaker 2 (43:22):
You know, and the publisher's clearinghouse thing
I think was one of them did.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
So people are hypothesizing that the timelines
are getting mixed up and that'swhy we have those deja vu
moments.
We have these interactions withpeople like I'm gonna marry her
, like I talked about my wife,because we were crossing those
timelines and we're reliving it.
And one of the things that Ican't explain how in the world
do child prodigies almost seemto come out of the womb being
(43:53):
able to play a piano or guitaror be able to play chess and
beat grandmothers?
How in the world can they dothat and they'd never been
trained?
That stompifies me, okay.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
I don't know how that happens Like I can tell you for
sure.
I have had multiple momentswhere I can tell you exactly how
this conversation is gonna go,because I've already heard it,
or driving somewhere, and I cantell you what's gonna be around
the corner.
And I know for a fact I'venever been there in my life or
(44:30):
seen a picture, but there wasone that you had said.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Which one?
Speaker 3 (44:40):
What was it?
He just said something aboutnot necessarily conversations or
whatever, but it's gonna driveme crazy now.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I don't know.
Are you talking about deja vu?
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Yeah, but we're.
Oh, it was like the little kidthat swears he's like the
princess of whales or something.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Like people oh yeah, so they feel like they know
their past life.
Like I know there was one kidthat said he was little white
boy, said he was a black womanin his former life and they just
kind of laughed him off andthey ended up putting some
research stuff in front of himand he was able to point to like
(45:23):
a Chicago newspaper and pointout the woman that he was and
they gave like images ofdifferent women and he pointed
out exactly first time whichwoman he was that had like died
in a Chicago like accident yearsago and he swears that that was
him.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
And he knew facts about his life and such.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
And so, yeah, he knew facts and again could point her
out, knew where she was from,pointed out the news article
about it and stated that too,that too he was in his past life
.
And again, like this happens insome of the NDE rabbit holes,
where folks have their liveskind of played before them and
(46:07):
they can choose to come back,like sometimes they get the
option to come back, not just intheir present life, but choose
to come back and try things overthings they did not accomplish
perhaps in their first life.
They get a go at it again andagain they're agreeing to this,
(46:28):
maybe in a second life, and Iknow that's tough, but you have
something that are done, likeyou see people that see their
loved ones and like, hey, Ican't go on.
And they're like, no, you haveto keep going because, like
Michelle said with the friendshe knew you're not done yet
your life's not done, mine, mineis done and complete.
I'm here, I've accomplished allI want to accomplish, but you
(46:50):
still basically go back untilyou get it right, whatever that
may mean, which, again, theseare just some of the scenarios
that I've come across, but it'sinteresting.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
So Well, I've had too many things happen that to get
me to where I am now that it'sjust too much to be coincidental
for me.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I will refrain from telling you some of the stories
I've heard about people talkingabout alien abductions after
they died, because if my pastoris listening to this one right
now, he's just rubbing his headanyway.
So it's I will refrain from thepastoral staff visit into my
house by refraining from tellingthose stories that I've heard.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
I'm just Tell your pastor to get into a
conversation and scientistsshould not figure out as well,
because no one has the answersor what these people are
experiencing.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I agree and I say no.
No, I just mean like I'mkidding, it's a little bit
ingest.
You know what I mean.
But I'm sure if he listens tosome of these podcasts he's
rubbing his head sometimes.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
Are two, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
And it is, and we're just trying to figure this stuff
out.
But there's something that Iknow in my heart that in a
previous life of mine I was deadand I was buried with my
trespasses and sins.
Okay, I've been on both sidesof the Bible.
(48:18):
I've been on the side thatfought against it.
I've been on that side and thatwas my prior life, and I'm
speaking for Michelle and forPierre as well.
We've both been on that side.
We weren't necessarily walkingin God's path, Although you know
we'll say that God brought usaround to the path that we're on
now.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
But we also see on the other side of that Bible,
where, when you believe, whenyou try wholeheartedly, with a
genuine, pure spirit, to carryout those commands that he's
encouraged you to do, not forhis good but for your good and
for his glory in other people'seyes by spreading that goodness.
(49:00):
I would like to say that I havebeen personally changed.
I have had a near deathexperience where my old man, my
old self, was dead.
I've been buried.
I have been resurrected into anew life through baptism.
That's what I've been.
(49:21):
I am now walking as a new manand I'm proud of that guy and I
can see who that is and I cansee who my past self was.
And so, pierre and Michelle,you gotta take a minute, because
it is Easter Sunday, rightaround the corner here and
people are listeners.
I gotta ask ya are you ready?
(49:44):
We don't know a hundred percentfor certain, because if you
pitch yourself right now, you'llknow you're awake.
You would know you're here, butwe don't know what's on the
other side.
I Know the Bible is true Withmy heart of hearts, because I've
seen how life doesn't workwithout it and I've seen how
(50:07):
life works with it, and so I'mgonna put some weight into what
I can see, what I can touch,what I can feel, with the Bible
being active and alive andsharper than a two-edged sword
and Separating my heart indifferent paths.
Okay, I can see that, I canfeel that, and so I want to
(50:28):
encourage our listeners.
Are you ready to take that nextstep?
Are you ready to say, okay, Idon't know where this is gonna
lead me, but I know I want toput my old self behind me and
I'm ready to move into that newchapter of my life.
I'm gonna.
I'm gonna trust in God.
I'm whatever Michelle, pierreand Wes are saying and talking
about God I'm gonna trust inthat same God and I'm gonna
(50:49):
start living my life for him,because I don't want to face the
afterlife Not knowing what'scoming, but knowing that the
Bible tells me if I don't put myfaith and my trust in him, it
ain't good.
Right, is that the southernperson coming out of it ain't
good?
Yeah, but very well said.
(51:11):
And and that's what I want todo I did something to think
about on this resurrectionSunday, because I truly believe
that Jesus died, he was buriedand he was raised to walk a new
life.
Right, and the reason why Ibelieve that is because people
believed it during the time thathe was alive and they gave
their lives up For that truththat they believed.
(51:32):
They.
They were threatened.
You either tell us the truth oryou're gonna die.
Tell us Jesus stayed in thattomb or else we're gonna kill
you.
And they said, okay, how can wetell you that?
We saw him with our own eyes.
Mm-hmm, we know he's alive.
And then they killed him.
They killed the people whoconfessed those things, and and
(51:52):
that's that is such a bigtestimony to me.
So I'll just encourage thelisteners to do that.
Pierre, michelle, if you didn'tmind me saying that, not at all
.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
I think it's perfect West.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
I agree, I don't.
I don't think we have enoughfaith to be an atheist.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
I Like that here.
Tell everybody how to get intouch with us again If they want
to share any of theirexperiences or their stories or
anything they just want to getoff their chest.
By all means, we are in open.
We will be happy to listen.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yes, Contact us.
Get outreach over at findingfaith losing sleep at gmailcom.
Also on the X slash Twittermachine at finding faith pot.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Very good.
Thank you, pierre, michelle.
Hey, you guys have a goodEaster.
There's one thing that you gotto know for Easter and if you're
gonna go to church, I think yougot to know this, the and I
hope you guys know this If I sayhe has risen, what are you
supposed to say?
You don't know he is risen.
Indeed, there it is, there, itis okay.
You've heard it before.
I think I've quizzed you aboutthat before, but yes, that is an
(52:54):
old, old, old church traditionthat's gone way back, and this
Sunday, anyway, at my church,the pastor will say he has risen
and the church will say he hasrisen indeed.
It's time to wake up and pray up here on the Finding
Faith and Losing Sleep podcast.
Oh, I'm Wes Easley.
What are your hopes?
And I am on location today,outside, in the very windy,
windy conditions that I'm in,watching my eight-year-old run
around and play with somefriends who are on spring break.
And I break that news to youbecause Pierre said that he was
(00:26):
also on a little spring breakhimself and that there are
screaming kids outside hiswindow or something.
What'd you say, pierre?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yeah, yeah, also on destination location, and it's
windy here as well.
But yeah, there's a couple kidsthat are out in the little
gathering section outsideplaying Cornhole and one's just
screaming bloody murder.
So if you pick that up,apologies, he's very excited.
But yeah, yeah, it's nice to beon spring break, have a little
(00:54):
time off and work, join somefamily time and decide it was
time to get another episode out.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
It's definitely time to get another episode out.
It's definitely there.
So if you hear screaming andeverything, don't think it's us,
it's them.
Ok, I've got curious kids in myneighborhood as well and I'm
telling you they're going tocome up here, they're going to
start pushing buttons andeverything.
And if you hear screaming kids,it may be me.
Chastising them is what it maybe All right, but I'm doing it
for the show.
I'm doing it for the show.
Ok, that's Michelle who isjoining Pierre, and I didn't
(01:25):
know what this topic was evenabout.
Pierre.
You sent me a show notes.
We don't do a lot of show notes, so it was just like a
paragraph for a sentence.
And you said, hey, let's do ashow on this.
And notice, I'm not giving awaywhat the show is about, yet,
I'm kind of teasing things andyou gave me the initials like
three letters and I didn't knowwhat it was.
(01:45):
And I just sat there and Ilooked at it and I thought about
it and I'm like, what is hetrying to say?
And so I just let it sit therefor a minute and then I asked
you what is this?
And then you told me what itwas and the only thing that I
could come up with was that you,michelle, got into a fight and
she just about killed you.
That's why you wanted to goover this episode, not yet what
(02:07):
is this?
What is this episode?
Pierre Tell the listeners, letthem in on what our conversation
was to start this.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, so the initials I sent you were NDE, so I'll
let the listeners sit on thatfor a moment to see if they know
what that is.
And, honestly, it's justsomething that has been popping
up in my life, just searchingand rabbit holes that I've gone
down, and I had a situationrecently, actually in my men's
(02:36):
group, where someone experiencedone of these and they start
talking about their situation aswell and I'm like, okay, this
might be something that we wantto have a conversation about,
because there's a lot ofpossibilities, I feel, with this
topic and I feel like it wasgood to just talk about it and
see what other thoughts are andmaybe even get some listener
(02:59):
involvement at the end and havethem kind of leave feedback,
which you can atfindingfafelosingsleep, at
gbocom, also on the X slashTwitter machine at
findingfafepod.
But we'll get to that once wedive in.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
All right, and, michelle, he said that this is
coming up a lot in his life.
I don't know if he said ourlife or not, meaning yours and
his, I don't know, but can youtell the listeners what this
topic is about and what theworld Pierre is talking about?
I sure?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
can.
It's near-death experiences andit's kind of Pierre's rabbit
hole, but we have had somediscussions about it and there
were a couple of things thatI've had in my past not myself
personally, but at least oneperson that I know that had a
situation like that, and so it'scome up in our conversation.
(03:48):
But this has kind of been hisbaby and he talks to me about it
.
He'll say, OK, so this is whatI heard now and this is what I
saw this time and what do youthink about this?
And honestly, he would have totell you this part.
But I think some of it cameabout because maybe because I
(04:11):
was struggling with that myself.
So I'll talk about that.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah.
So one of her situations,obviously through the cancer
battle that she's been goingthrough and has went through,
which a lot of listeners theylisten to any episodes would
probably know that was kind oflike what happens once you pass.
Because, honestly, some thingscan be conflicting even within
(04:41):
the Bible itself when you speakto whether you are going to
remember your loved ones evenonce you're beyond this life.
Are you going to remember thosethat took place here on Earth.
And it's honestly a conflictBecause some things say that you
won't remember anything at thispoint and it's all joy and
(05:04):
happiness.
But what's that joy andhappiness if you don't remember
your life here?
But on the flip side, I starteddiving into some of these
experiences and even someexamples.
You see loved ones and stuff onthe other side, so I was like,
well, what's the answer there?
So that's kind of how I starteddiving into it and there's
(05:26):
there's just so much to go intoand I mean, what's your thoughts
?
What do you think New deathexperiences are real?
Do you believe in them yourself?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I think near near death experiences are real.
You're talking to somebodywho's been in over 20 car wrecks
, so I believe that that is real, because I've almost died who
knows how many times, you knowdon't write West noted.
OK.
So, yes, this is, this is oneof those conversations and this
is what the podcast is about.
It's that's what the name comesfrom finding faith and losing
(05:59):
sleep podcast.
There's we lose sleep thinkingabout some of these things and
how they just don't dive rightWith what we see, what we hear,
what people tell us.
And then we get to the Bibleand we start looking at what the
Bible says.
It's just like, ok, wait aminute, here, this is you put it
all together and it justdoesn't.
It just doesn't sit well rightIn my mind.
(06:21):
It just doesn't sit well.
So I've heard of a lot ofexperiences as well, and I don't
know if you've ever talked toanybody who's ever worked in the
hospice field.
Boy, I think they have somestories.
Ok, they have some stories ofthings and it's it's definitely
one of those times in somebody'slife, whenever they're on the
(06:44):
verge of death, that that peoplewant to say that they're
starting to see things.
They're just, they're kind ofgetting delirious.
I don't know, you know, it'skind of like, ok, maybe they
aren't seeing things like theywere, but that doesn't mean
they're not seeing things.
Yeah, you, almost.
I want to.
I want to give people somewhatthe benefit of the doubt that
(07:07):
they're still cognitive.
Ok, I got, I saw my greatgrandmother, ma'am all Ma'am all
was her name and she wasunresponsive, in a hospital bed.
It felt like for days, I don'tknow, we were a whole family,
was up there and everything fora long time.
So I'm not sure how long thetime was that she was
(07:27):
unresponsive, but it wasunresponsive for days.
And then her, her granddaughter, my aunt, she said she said
Ma'am all, you want some snuff?
Because Ma'am all that tooksnuff, which is like chewing
tobacco, you know.
So she said, she said, ma'amall, you want some snuff.
And and my memoir squeezed herfinger.
(07:49):
You know, squeeze my, squeezemy aunt's finger.
So is it?
Could she?
And I'm telling you she'sunresponsive.
You talk to her, she isunresponsive.
But at that time she couldunderstand, she could hear and
there was no doubt that shewanted snuff.
So I kind of want to givepeople the benefit of the doubt,
but at the same time I don'tknow that we'll ever have those
(08:11):
true answers, pierre andMichelle, because until we go
through it and experience it,yeah, and then we might not be
able to convey what we're Havingis the truth and people will
just doubt us.
I always want to give peoplethe benefit of doubt, though.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, I need to.
I don't know if I I want toexperience it Is the need that
something probably went wrong inorder to get to that point.
So I'm fine just going down therabbit holes of others, but I
know what Michelle can, can talkon this, on your friend and
that that kind of has situationif you can dive into kind of
(08:50):
what took place there.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, I dated a guy in high school who, without
saying names, he was out runningand was hit by a car and passed
away on the operating operatingroom table and they brought him
back.
And when they brought him backhe said it directly immediately.
(09:13):
When he saw his mom he said itwas the strangest thing that he
was like there was a kid in hisclass who had passed away
previously, I believe, of abrain aneurysm.
And when he saw him he said,well, what are you?
He saw the kid and he's like,what are you doing here?
You're not supposed to be hereyet.
And that's when he woke up inthe operating room.
(09:35):
So he was not one of thosepeople that embellishes anything
.
He was pretty straightforwardand just.
You know, matter of fact, andso I didn't have any reason, or
don't have any reason to notbelieve what here is.
Mom said, and you know it'sjust, he was pretty shaken by
(09:57):
that and I don't I can't saythat I know what his faith level
was or what his parents faithlevel was.
So at that, at that time In mylife, it wasn't really about a
faith journey, so to speak, butmore so just like, wow, like.
So you know the the fact thathe saw somebody that he knew and
then when the kids said, hey,you're not supposed to be here
yet, it's not your time, that'swhen he wakes up.
(10:18):
So I had told Pierre about thatand that was just one of the
conversations that we'd had.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, that's trippy.
See, I like these kind ofthings because it's the only
category I could put this stuffin is like ghost stories, you
know what I mean.
Like, and I'm not saying thatman's experience, their boys
experience, was a ghost story oranything like that, but that's
just how I that's the box I haveto put it in that I, I don't
know, I'm, I wasn't there.
(10:47):
Yeah, I've heard the story andthe people telling the story are
just you can see it in theireyes.
They believe it, you know, theyknow it's as right as rain.
So, like that's back to them.
Yeah, yeah.
And so I?
That's what I mean aboutwanting to give people the
benefit of the doubt, and Idon't want to discredit.
(11:08):
Oh, they're crazy.
Oh, I'm just delirious now.
I you know, but I will say thatat the same time, I Know myself,
mm-hmm, if, if I'm in a dreamstate, if I'm dreaming, you know
asleep or whatever, on the sofaor or in the bed at night, or
anything like that, and then youhave one of those dreams where
(11:29):
You're, you're, you're doingsomething, right, you're just
doing something in the dream andyou wake up and that something
is right there in front of you,almost Whether it's somebody
about.
You know, you're like about totalk to somebody, and then that
person puts their hand on yourshoulders and then my daughter,
who's eight years old, isstanding right in front of me
and her hand is on my shoulder.
(11:50):
You know, yeah, so it's.
It's kind of one of thosethings where the mind somewhat
knows what's going on, but thebody's just not catching up to
the mind and the mind's tryingto wake up your body in all that
.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Subconscious versus consciously.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, but how you know?
I mean, did my ears, did myears hear that?
Obviously my eyes were closed,so I didn't see it?
I don't think, but you knowyour ears here.
Maybe maybe I smelled her,maybe some of those other senses
were taking over, or whatever,but it, the my mind, was
enabling me to know what wasgoing on and and giving me that
(12:28):
power to wake up and addresswhatever the situation was.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Oh yeah, I used to full on frustrate the heck out
of my mom because she would tryto wake me up and I Would be mad
at her knowing, like in mysomewhat Conscious, I suppose,
state, like if I was asleep andshe's trying to wake me up, I
would be having a conversation,one conversation.
She's having a totallydifferent conversation with me
and we just be arguing likewhile I'm half asleep.
(12:52):
Like it was just crazy and Iknow it would frustrate the heck
out of her sometimes, but Ithink that's just where
subconscious takes over and ourconscious mind isn't, you know,
fully capturing what we'retrying to do.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I Don't know if I have those conscious or
subconscious moments, my myself,but I, so I know the experience
that I I recently kind of setin on Was a member of my men's
group and again, I won't namenames either but Something I
also noticed that takes place alot in the, the near-death
(13:28):
experience, rabbit holes.
I come, I come across her likeout-of-body type of experiences
and I Hadn't talked to this.
This guy, he was actually newerto our group at the time and he
actually told us, on his ownyou know a story that he he
basically tried to take his lifea few years back, took some
(13:52):
sleeping pills I believe he saidit was a 162 sleeping pills at
once.
He said he knew it because hehe went out to get as many that
he could afford at the time witha goal in mind of taking his
life and he took him andApparently he he had an
(14:13):
out-of-body experience where hehe could see himself, as you
often hear, like on the, thehospital bed and, you know, saw
folks working on him, pumpinghis stomach etc.
And he didn't feel any pain.
He said he felt a presence andat one point he wondered if it
was his dad, but he said it wasjust a different A type of
(14:35):
presence, to the point where hehe personally feels it was Jesus
, they're hovering with him.
And he said he felt like a love, but then he felt like a worry,
realizing what he had done andwhat the ultimate result for him
was going to be, knowing thathe, you know, had committed
(14:55):
suicide.
And he said, the moment that hefelt that worry he like shot
Back in his body and was revised.
He's like whoa, I can't believethat just happened.
He remembered it, all that tookplace.
And when I watch differentvideos I see that as well, where
you see people all of a suddenin operating rooms and parks
(15:15):
that basically feel like they'vejust had an out-of-body
experience, where they see whatthey know is their body and it's
just looked at as like a vesselthat they're now relieved from
and the weight's kind of liftedand it's just a different impact
and experience.
So yeah, I get curious aboutthat, but I don't want to
(15:37):
necessarily be in that situationmyself, to where I'm looking at
my body like, uh-oh, what justhappened?
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Yeah, no, I.
Yes, there's different phasesof like meditation and your, if
you can ever reach the point notthat I ever meditate, I don't
know like this or anything.
All right, when I'm meditating,I'm maybe just thinking about
God, I'm doing stuff like that,but I'm not oh kind of
(16:04):
meditation or anything like that.
Yeah, but you're supposed to beable to reach different planes
and platitudes, maybe, if that'sthe correct word of
consciousness you know, and tobe able to have those
out-of-body experiences.
I used to listen to a littleradio show on AM Radio, a
coast-to-coast AM with Art Pell,and they used to talk about.
(16:26):
People used to dial up and talkabout those kind of things.
It was very strange to listento because you just you don't
get taught those things.
You know, you just don't gettaught them.
Interesting though that we'retalking about this topic and
it's all kind of circling aroundto something that I've been
doing too.
I've been on this chronologicalBible in a year path and I love
(16:48):
to listen to it.
All right, I love to listen toit, and just within the I want
to say today's reading, but I'mlike days ahead because I'll
listen and I'll just be like,all right, I'm going, I'm just
going, I'm with the whole thingto think.
You know how I am here, you knowhow I am here, but so anyway, I
don't know if it's today'sreading or whatever, but it was
in Job, chapter 14.
(17:08):
And of course we know Job is inthis turmoil and he's just
heartbroken, he's lost hisfamily and he's just questioning
life and all these things.
And while I was listening to itand, by the way, I think it's
the guy from Seinfeld who'sreading it I don't know who's
reading this, it's the amp.
I don't even know what Bibleversion it is, but the guy who's
(17:30):
reading it is the guy who wasthe head of the company that
talks like this.
Do you know who I'm talkingabout?
On Seinfeld.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
No.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
No.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I don't watch.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Seinfeld.
He's got the blonde hair, he'slike the CEO of the company and
he goes on all these huntingexcursions and stuff.
I haven't watched Seinfeld inyears but I just remember the
guy.
He talked like this and so, ashe's reading the Bible, I'm like
, oh, this is so cool, he's justreading it.
Maybe I'll try to do hisimpression of him reading the
(18:01):
Bible.
How frail is humanity.
How short is life.
I can't do it.
How full of trouble.
We blossom like a flower andthen we wither Like a passing
shadow.
We quickly disappear.
You must keep an eye on such afrail creature and demand an
accounting for me.
Who can bring purity out of animpure person?
No one.
You have decided the length ofour lives.
You know how many months wewill live and we are not given a
(18:24):
minute longer.
So leave us alone and let usrest.
He's kind of begging God hereto just let me die.
Quit messing with me.
That was just Job's mentality atthis point.
But I was thinking about how hedefinitely didn't believe in
reincarnation whenever I waslistening to Job, chapter 14.
(18:46):
Because he's like once you die,it's over, it's done.
And I think about those kind ofrumors, speculations that we
hear a lot.
And I'm not saying what Jobsaid is gospel.
Okay, job was a man and he wasgoing under some severe dress at
(19:07):
this point.
And I'm not saying he was beingprophetic.
I'm not telling anybody that hewas explaining the ways of the
world and the ways of theafterlife to anyone.
I'm just telling you what hisopinion was.
And in Job, chapter 14, we seethat.
And then he talks about youalways overpower people and then
they pass away.
You disfigure them in death andsend them away.
(19:28):
They never know if theirchildren grow up in honor or
sink to insignificance.
They suffer painfully and theirlife is full of trouble, just
meaning that when you die youdon't look down on people from
heaven.
You know what I mean when youhear people say well, I know
he's looking down on us rightnow and he's happy.
I've heard people say that kindof stuff, like about my father
(19:50):
or whatever.
Job obviously didn't think that, or maybe he didn't know that
that was the way it was going tobe in life after death or
anything.
He just didn't know.
So I just thought that wasinteresting that we're talking
about this, and I was thinkingabout all these different rumors
and speculations that peoplehave that keep people up at
night.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Well, with all the rabbit holes I've gone down and,
trust me, I've gone down somany at this point there's never
been one in which they'vespoken to seeing what's taking
place, like currently, like,besides, looking down in the
moment at themselves before theyreturn to the body, like the
(20:34):
rest of it's like not aboutseeing loved ones for the most
part which is pretty interestingbecause, again, that was one of
Michelle's concerns but whenyou think about there being like
, no pain, no sorrow, I feellike that would be you not
getting a glimpse into the world.
(20:57):
Unless you're in a state of aspirit where you simply can't
like it's impossible for you tofill those emotions.
Like, how could you look downat today's world, regardless of
what side of the world you're on, and see your family still
(21:19):
going through a sinful type ofworld and being pain, sorrows,
become deaf, other type ofsituations?
How could you look down uponthat and have your voice still
would be a question there.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
And that's what I truly struggled with and I think
that kind of kickstarted all ofthis is.
I was truly struggling withthat whole thing and like I get
it, because if you could lookdown and you see your family
struggling, like you would besad and if you're supposed to be
in a joyful state, that kind ofcontradicts what should be
(21:58):
happening.
At the same time, I do believethat I still believe that God
will allow signs, kind of liketo say, to give us some peace
while we're here, when we'requestioning if that person that
we're thinking of is seeing us.
(22:19):
And the reason I say that firstand foremost is and I think
I've talked about thispreviously, but way back when,
when I was in high school, therewas a boy that the first time I
saw the back of his head I knew, like I knew my own name.
I was gonna marry him and fastforward.
(22:39):
We never actually got to dateand I felt it in my own being
when he passed away and it wasshortly after I had graduated
and fast forward probably 20years and for a long time.
That's kind of how.
And here's a bizarre little funfact the day he died is
(23:01):
actually Pierre's birthday andalso the day Olivia was due.
But I I, for a long time Ithought about him every day and
it was like, okay, well, ifthere was one person for me now
in my what now?
And if that's the fact, am Ijust settling?
(23:21):
And like that was always kindof the thought in my head.
And for many years I thoughtabout him constantly, even when
I was in a relationship.
I just mourned that loss.
And when Pierre came in my lifeit was more few and far between
, and I, you know, I would godays and then weeks and maybe
(23:42):
have a thought.
And then it was months, and oneday in particular, olivia was,
I don't know, maybe two or three.
It had been a while since I'dthought about him and I was
driving home from work and Ijust was struggling, like why is
he so, like, why am I feelingso heavy about this today?
And I didn't want to bring thatinto the house with me, but it
(24:04):
was just kind of still on mymind and all of a sudden it
dawned on me like I just don'tknow if he's in heaven.
I think that's what's botheringme.
I don't know where he went, Idon't know what that
relationship looked like, and soI just kind of said a prayer
sitting there and I was like,okay, god, I think I can let
this go if I just know that he'swith you.
(24:25):
Like can you just give me asign?
And at his funeral they hadplayed Cats in the Cradle
because his father had passedaway previously.
And the moment I said thatPierre, who I'm not sure knew
the new Cats in the Cradle,busts out singing Cats in the
(24:47):
Cradle, and I'm telling you tothis day it still gives me
goosebumps.
Because I just looked at himand I was like whoa, it's still
one of the craziest thingsthat's ever happened.
And for me that was just the.
It's okay, michelle, like youcan let it go.
Like now you can just be happy,you're where you're supposed to
(25:07):
be.
You know I can work all thingsfor good.
This is where you were meant tobe in the first place.
But having him break out inthat, in that instant he just
was like you look like you'veseen a ghost and I'm like kind
of feel like I have.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
And that's why I like you, Michelle, because you have
a lot of ghost stories.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I'm just going to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
You freak me out sometimes I don't know if that's
good for Pierre.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I have one as well and I think I talked about it.
So when I heard of my mom'spassing, we were in Cincinnati.
We had just taken in our Cubsand Reds game the night before,
and so the first time back toCincinnati since that happened
was a Packers and Bengals gamethat we were going to for
(25:54):
Michelle, and it was just toughfeelings, knowing the
surroundings a stadium, a hotelI was at one and I got that call
in the morning, so it was justkind of an uneasy feeling.
And walking into the stadiumthere's a song by Chumbawamba
Chumbawamba called Tup Dumpingthat my mom used to love, just
(26:18):
because it had vodka drinkingthere.
She loved vodka and that washer.
You take a risky drink, youtake a vodka drink, and it talks
about getting knocked down,getting back up again, which was
kind of her fighting song, soto speak.
And so I'm like, ok, it'sreally odd that this song is
playing as soon as we're walkinginto the stadium.
(26:40):
It's an older song for one andthis was just a couple of years
ago that took place.
I'm like, all right, I justkind of brushed it aside.
So walking out the stadium afterthe package of one and like
overtime, there's this streetmusician with like a saxophone
playing and he's not playinganything.
At the time that we're walking,like I can see him.
(27:02):
He's just kind of getting setup.
And as soon as I walk up by him, he starts to play the
Flintstones on a saxophone.
And I'm like, all right, yougot to be kidding me now,
because that was my mom'sfavorite cartoon, and again he
wasn't playing anythingwhatsoever.
And the moment I got like rightin front of him, it starts to
(27:23):
doon and doon and doon.
And I look back at Michelle andshe just kind of acknowledged
the fact that it was playing andI'm like now what are the odds
that I hear a song going in?
And I'm like, yeah, it's just asong.
I hear a song coming out andit's the Flintstones, which
hasn't aired and I don't knowhow long, and the guy's not
(27:45):
playing anything until you getup to that point.
So for me that was just again asign that my mom was there and
wanted me to feel OK, being backin Cincinnati for the first
time.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
See, I know you two a little bit Now.
I've never seen you face toface.
You guys might look like abunch of lunatics, I don't know,
but I think I know you.
I've known Pierre for quitesome time now, and no Michelle
as well through Pierre and evengot a wonderful Christmas card
in the mail from you guys.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
It must look like lunatics apparently.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
So that's why I want to say you guys are crazy.
I've talked to you, I know youguys a little bit and I can't
discredit your own accounts.
And it's too coincidental tojust be random.
You know what I mean, thespecific songs, and that's how
(28:49):
you start knowing, in my opinion, whether or not people are
telling the truth, whetherthey're lying, all those things.
First of all, is there storyjive together over a couple of
times of hearing it?
Right, and I've heard yourstory a couple of times,
michelle, I think, like you said, you've talked about it.
Now, pierre, I'm not sure thatyou've ever talked about that
story in depth like that with meor anything, but I remember
(29:11):
details and you guys were bothtelling specific details, using
names, using locations, not justsome random off-the-cuff kind
of facts you know or pretendfacts.
So that's how you kind of tellwhether or not people are
telling the truth or whether ornot they're lying.
And that's why I would want togive you guys the benefit of the
doubt that, wow, what theyexperience is real and what they
(29:34):
went through is real, and so Idon't want to discredit that.
And so I look at something likeJob in Job, chapter 14,
whenever I did.
And I think about what Job isdoing and what Job is going
through.
And you know, maybe Job justdoesn't know those intricacies
of the afterlife because he'snever experienced it.
(29:55):
So that's some things I thinkabout with that.
Now, biblically speaking, thereare people who died and came
back but we don't really getlike insight into what they saw
or what they did.
I think about the widow's son,when it was either Elijah or
Elisha, you know, raised himfrom the dead and everything
like that.
But we don't get details ofwhat things are like.
(30:18):
It just seems like everythingis honky-dory afterwards.
Think about Jerry and hisdaughter and how his daughter
was raised from the dead.
Everything ever changed afterthat, just a honky-dory,
everything is fine, everything'sperfect.
You know we don't get anyinsight there.
But Peter, you brought up oneand I have one too, whenever
(30:39):
Paul starts writing about histime, I guess in 1 Corinthians,
chapter 12, right, or 2Corinthians chapter 12.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, whenever he talks about the thorn in the
flesh and he just he goesthrough that incident with him
and it seems like he had some,you know, being called up into a
third heaven, right, and itjust like out of body experience
, maybe on a different plane.
Am I going to say that Paul wasnuts and discredited everything
(31:10):
else he said?
Well, is he a lunatic?
He doesn't know what he'stalking about.
Well, that guy was crazy.
You know I can't do that andthen still count all of his
other writings as things I needto live by.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well, I think that's what kind of prevents some folks
from telling their truth isthey don't want to come off like
they're crazy or a lunatic.
And I mean you'll see it.
So I tell Michelle this so ifyou go on YouTube and you watch
a bunch of NDE videos, you'relike, okay, who's being real,
(31:44):
who's in it for like their 15minutes of fame.
But what do I tell you?
Pulls me to that even more.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
He'll always say that it's when he it's not
necessarily the people that arein the videos but like the
people commenting becausethey're not in it for anything,
it's the comment.
He typically goes to thecomment section and kind of goes
through those because thosepeople aren't the ones that are
like necessarily putting theirvideos out there, like for their
(32:14):
like, quote unquote 15 minutesof fame.
It's more of this is what Iexperienced, or whatever.
They're not looking for areason other than that to do it.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah, no views, no clicks, or just hey, thanks for
sharing.
Let me share in front of a muchlesser audience, with nothing
uploaded, and there's tons ofthem, like there's so many that
take place and like I mean, whatare the odds that all of these
experiences are just made up?
(32:45):
To me, that's slim to none.
And you'll see, like folks say,I don't really share this
because I don't want people tothink I'm crazy, or I try to
tell my family and they thoughtI was nuts.
But, since you have a similarexperience, I wanna share what I
went through, and for me thatmeans more than the videos.
(33:08):
I want those behind the scenesthat are just trying to share
just to the again, the lesseraudience, just to share the
experience and not to get anytype of monetary value, cause I
know, oh, it's the movie.
Heaven is for real.
I think it was a big popularmovie with the kid.
I wanna say the thing wasColton that basically said he
(33:31):
experienced heaven.
And you see the aftermath ofthat with all the media, all the
public attention.
Whether he wanted that or not,or his family, is one thing, but
if you have someone that's notin it for that whatsoever,
that's just trying to share incomments what they went through,
that just hits another nervefor me.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
No, I get what you're saying and some people do seem
to be after it for their owngreed and all that.
And we understand that.
I say understand it.
I don't understand it, but Iunderstand that people will do
that.
But you look at Paul and talkabout going up to the third
heaven.
We even go over to John in thebook of Revelation whenever he
(34:12):
starts wigging out, I guess, andjust writing all those things.
But he says I, john, yourbrother, fellow partaker, in the
tribulation, in the kingdom ofperseverance which is in Jesus
Christ, was on the island calledPatmos.
Because of the word of God andthe testimony of Jesus, I was in
the spirit on the Lord's dayand I heard behind me a loud
voice like the sound of atrumpet.
(34:33):
And there it goes.
Then there goes the book ofRevelation, right, but John says
he was in the spirit on theLord's day.
What does that mean?
And people will just want tosay well, we'll never have the
complete understanding of whatthe Bible says with John and we
just won't ever understand untilwe get to heaven.
Okay, I can accept that.
I can understand that that's aneasy way out, but I don't want
(34:59):
to discredit other people'schaotic times in their life.
I don't know, chaotic is there?
Not chaotic, but experiences intheir life where maybe they
were in the spirit.
I don't know.
I don't know what it was and Ido want to reach out and tell
people on the Finding Faith inLosing Sleep podcast listeners,
if you've had an experience likethat and you want to share it
(35:21):
with somebody.
We won't tell a soul unless youtell us hey, I don't care if
you share it or not.
You can tell us.
Pierre's good about readingthose things.
I doubt Michelle reads thosethings because she'll just be
sitting there crying all daylong and I don't know how to do
it.
So Pierre's good at that.
If you want to share thosethings and get them off your
(35:43):
chest, just because it bothersyou, it keeps you up at night,
I'll encourage you to get intouch with us through those ways
that Pierre mentioned earlierin the show and we'll mention
them again here at the end ofthe show and just let them out,
cause that's what we're here todo.
We're here to listen, we're hereto talk when and you guys have
heard me enough times, you'veheard Michelle enough times,
you've heard Pierre enough timesto know that we aren't gonna
(36:05):
think you're crazy.
Because even if we do thinkyou're crazy, you can say well,
you're crazier than me.
I hope you know.
That's some of the things.
Whenever I've worked withpeople who are chemically
dependent, they look at me andsay you know, if that guy right
there can make it out ofchemical dependency talking
about me, I know I can, becausehe's a lot worse off than I am.
(36:26):
You know that's just how theythink and I hope that's kind of
how our podcast comes acrossthat we're just average,
everyday people trying to workout our salvation with fear and
trembling.
That's what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, I mean that's the whole reason we put it
together is we're not big timescholars or, you know,
theologians, and we're justaverage people doing life,
talking through life.
You know some touchy subjectsand some thoughtful subjects,
and, again, just conversing andhaving, hopefully, open
(37:02):
conversations that are reachingothers.
And I personally felt this onewasn't important because I think
you know, clearly deaf, thebiggest fear, question mark For
humans, both their own lives andthe lives of their family and
friends.
And when there's ever reallytrue, deep sorrow, it comes from
(37:26):
the unknown of.
You know well, I ever see thisperson again.
You're looking at yourself.
Will they ever, you know, seeme again?
Will it be okay when I'm gone?
You know what does that mean.
And I think that you knowIndies can kind of give hope to
some extent, because they're notall good.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Like there's some dark ones.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
People are seeing the other side of things, but just
the thought of there being youknow something more I think can
help.
And again, you look at Jesushimself.
Right, you know he was on thecross.
What happened?
You know it was three days.
You listen to some of thebiblical scholars.
(38:11):
They believed.
You know he went down and youknow in the hell and took the
keys from.
You know Hades himself is whatsome believe took place and his
own afterlife.
Then he came back.
You know resurrection, whichwill be celebrating here in a
few days.
So I mean, it's just, it'salways been a thought, I think,
on many, many, many minds.
So I felt like it was good tohave a conversation.
(38:33):
So you speak about, you know,no reincarnation.
The Bible doesn't mention anyreincarnation, but a peace
interest.
You know, because some peoplesay, you know they get up there
and they come back and theyremember who they were in a past
life and it's like, okay, isthis real?
Are they wacko?
I mean, we don't know.
That's the thing we don't know.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Well, and going back to what Michelle said with the
young man, she knew from theback of her, back of his head
that she was like, oh, destin,to marry him.
You know why did that thoughtcome in your mind?
Why, when I first saw my wifein the library, first time I saw
her, I told my buddy, I saidwho is that?
And he told me her name and Isaid I'm gonna marry her.
(39:13):
Now, look, you guys know I wasa lot dumber at 18 than I am
even now.
Okay, I can't.
How did I know that?
Was it pretty, destin?
Was it one of those things thatjust uttered out of my mouth
and it came to fruition?
Speaker 3 (39:31):
How do you know it was?
For me it was super weirdbecause I had a boyfriend, a
long-term boyfriend at the time.
So I was at a new school and Iwalked in, saw just the back of
his head and knew it, like Iknew my own name.
So I don't have an answer forthat one.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Very comforting for the boyfriend, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
And my future wife had a boyfriend at the time too,
but he was just no match for myswive.
What's the way out?
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Well, so here we go, rabbit hope here coming out.
So, one of the a couple oftimes I've watched some of these
NDE's that are already readinto them, they speak to
basically their life beingplayed in front of them and that
they were ultimately on acontract where they knew what
(40:18):
was gonna take place.
So, for example, our livesright now.
Some would say that we chosethese lives and the reason that
we have you know those oh I knowI'm gonna marry her or day job
moments like I've been somewherethat I shouldn't have been
before is because it's actuallyplayed out in front of us and we
(40:40):
chose to come to Earth and livethis life.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
And that's it.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Okay, now, okay, now I'll even.
Can I tell you crazy West stuff?
Okay, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I've been looking for crazy West every once in a
while.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
So there's theories out there that these are all
different timelines.
Right, we're all differenttimelines and sometimes those
timelines interact with oneanother.
Now there's a big machine overin Sweden.
I wanna say Switzerland, sweden, I don't know, I've never been
over there.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
And I don't know what that accent was, but I don't
think it's Swiss or Sweden butgo ahead.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I think it was a Swedish or really an accent, but
it's a CERN machine, c-e-r-n,and you can Google it and you
can see the opening ceremonies.
And if you ever watched, like,the opening ceremonies of CERN
and their dedication ceremonies,you'll go wow, that is
conjuring up some very weirdstuff.
It looks like you know, it'sjust weird.
And what they do there isthey're trying to find the God
(41:40):
particle and that God particlethey got huge reactors, I guess.
Look this, I'm a simple breadman.
Some of this stuff goes abovemy head.
This I'm just explaining it inbread man language is all I'm
trying to do and it may not be100% accurate everybody.
But they're knocking aroundparticles and they're trying to
find the God particle, they'retrying to create things, but
(42:02):
whenever they're doing that,what people hypothesize is that
they're knocking around some ofthe timelines, right, and they
crank up those generators orthey crank up those reactors or
whatever they're doing, and it'sknocking around some of the
timelines.
And that's where we have someof the Mandela effect.
That's out there, where youremember something and you
(42:23):
remember specifically it beingthis way.
But now, thanks to Google,where we can go back in time,
right, and look at it and it'snot that way, but yet you're
positive.
It was that way, like the wayJif was spelled, or whether or
not the whole thing is.
Mandela died and everybodyremembers Mandela dying, but
then he died again andeverybody's like wait a minute,
(42:45):
I thought he already died and hedidn't.
He didn't die, he was in thehospital.
I believe it was near death,but everybody remembers him
dying and then he didn't die forlike eight years later.
I may not know the exact time,whether or not the fruit of a
loom logo from when I wasgrowing up as a kid, whether or
not that had that little wickerbasket behind it or not, or
(43:07):
whether all the things were inthe wicker bag.
And it doesn't, but it did whenI was growing up as a kid.
Flintstones, pierre.
Is it Flintstones, or is itFlintstones when you're watching
it as a kid?
How was it spelled?
Hannah Barbera, how was itspelled?
Speaker 2 (43:22):
You know, and the publisher's clearinghouse thing
I think was one of them did.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
So people are hypothesizing that the timelines
are getting mixed up and that'swhy we have those deja vu
moments.
We have these interactions withpeople like I'm gonna marry her
, like I talked about my wife,because we were crossing those
timelines and we're reliving it.
And one of the things that Ican't explain how in the world
do child prodigies almost seemto come out of the womb being
(43:53):
able to play a piano or guitaror be able to play chess and
beat grandmothers?
How in the world can they dothat and they'd never been
trained?
That stompifies me, okay.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
I don't know how that happens Like I can tell you for
sure.
I have had multiple momentswhere I can tell you exactly how
this conversation is gonna go,because I've already heard it,
or driving somewhere, and I cantell you what's gonna be around
the corner.
And I know for a fact I'venever been there in my life or
(44:30):
seen a picture, but there wasone that you had said.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Which one?
Speaker 3 (44:40):
What was it?
He just said something aboutnot necessarily conversations or
whatever, but it's gonna driveme crazy now.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I don't know.
Are you talking about deja vu?
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Yeah, but we're.
Oh, it was like the little kidthat swears he's like the
princess of whales or something.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Like people oh yeah, so they feel like they know
their past life.
Like I know there was one kidthat said he was little white
boy, said he was a black womanin his former life and they just
kind of laughed him off andthey ended up putting some
research stuff in front of himand he was able to point to like
(45:23):
a Chicago newspaper and pointout the woman that he was and
they gave like images ofdifferent women and he pointed
out exactly first time whichwoman he was that had like died
in a Chicago like accident yearsago and he swears that that was
him.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
And he knew facts about his life and such.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
And so, yeah, he knew facts and again could point her
out, knew where she was from,pointed out the news article
about it and stated that too,that too he was in his past life
.
And again, like this happens insome of the NDE rabbit holes,
where folks have their liveskind of played before them and
(46:07):
they can choose to come back,like sometimes they get the
option to come back, not just intheir present life, but choose
to come back and try things overthings they did not accomplish
perhaps in their first life.
They get a go at it again andagain they're agreeing to this,
(46:28):
maybe in a second life, and Iknow that's tough, but you have
something that are done, likeyou see people that see their
loved ones and like, hey, Ican't go on.
And they're like, no, you haveto keep going because, like
Michelle said with the friendshe knew you're not done yet
your life's not done, mine, mineis done and complete.
I'm here, I've accomplished allI want to accomplish, but you
(46:50):
still basically go back untilyou get it right, whatever that
may mean, which, again, theseare just some of the scenarios
that I've come across, but it'sinteresting.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
So Well, I've had too many things happen that to get
me to where I am now that it'sjust too much to be coincidental
for me.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
I will refrain from telling you some of the stories
I've heard about people talkingabout alien abductions after
they died, because if my pastoris listening to this one right
now, he's just rubbing his headanyway.
So it's I will refrain from thepastoral staff visit into my
house by refraining from tellingthose stories that I've heard.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
I'm just Tell your pastor to get into a
conversation and scientistsshould not figure out as well,
because no one has the answersor what these people are
experiencing.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
I agree and I say no.
No, I just mean like I'mkidding, it's a little bit
ingest.
You know what I mean.
But I'm sure if he listens tosome of these podcasts he's
rubbing his head sometimes.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
Are two, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
And it is, and we're just trying to figure this stuff
out.
But there's something that Iknow in my heart that in a
previous life of mine I was deadand I was buried with my
trespasses and sins.
Okay, I've been on both sidesof the Bible.
(48:18):
I've been on the side thatfought against it.
I've been on that side and thatwas my prior life, and I'm
speaking for Michelle and forPierre as well.
We've both been on that side.
We weren't necessarily walkingin God's path, Although you know
we'll say that God brought usaround to the path that we're on
now.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
But we also see on the other side of that Bible,
where, when you believe, whenyou try wholeheartedly, with a
genuine, pure spirit, to carryout those commands that he's
encouraged you to do, not forhis good but for your good and
for his glory in other people'seyes by spreading that goodness.
(49:00):
I would like to say that I havebeen personally changed.
I have had a near deathexperience where my old man, my
old self, was dead.
I've been buried.
I have been resurrected into anew life through baptism.
That's what I've been.
(49:21):
I am now walking as a new manand I'm proud of that guy and I
can see who that is and I cansee who my past self was.
And so, pierre and Michelle,you gotta take a minute, because
it is Easter Sunday, rightaround the corner here and
people are listeners.
I gotta ask ya are you ready?
(49:44):
We don't know a hundred percentfor certain, because if you
pitch yourself right now, you'llknow you're awake.
You would know you're here, butwe don't know what's on the
other side.
I Know the Bible is true Withmy heart of hearts, because I've
seen how life doesn't workwithout it and I've seen how
(50:07):
life works with it, and so I'mgonna put some weight into what
I can see, what I can touch,what I can feel, with the Bible
being active and alive andsharper than a two-edged sword
and Separating my heart indifferent paths.
Okay, I can see that, I canfeel that, and so I want to
(50:28):
encourage our listeners.
Are you ready to take that nextstep?
Are you ready to say, okay, Idon't know where this is gonna
lead me, but I know I want toput my old self behind me and
I'm ready to move into that newchapter of my life.
I'm gonna.
I'm gonna trust in God.
I'm whatever Michelle, pierreand Wes are saying and talking
about God I'm gonna trust inthat same God and I'm gonna
(50:49):
start living my life for him,because I don't want to face the
afterlife Not knowing what'scoming, but knowing that the
Bible tells me if I don't put myfaith and my trust in him, it
ain't good.
Right, is that the southernperson coming out of it ain't
good?
Yeah, but very well said.
(51:11):
And and that's what I want todo I did something to think
about on this resurrectionSunday, because I truly believe
that Jesus died, he was buriedand he was raised to walk a new
life.
Right, and the reason why Ibelieve that is because people
believed it during the time thathe was alive and they gave
their lives up For that truththat they believed.
(51:32):
They.
They were threatened.
You either tell us the truth oryou're gonna die.
Tell us Jesus stayed in thattomb or else we're gonna kill
you.
And they said, okay, how can wetell you that?
We saw him with our own eyes.
Mm-hmm, we know he's alive.
And then they killed him.
They killed the people whoconfessed those things, and and
(51:52):
that's that is such a bigtestimony to me.
So I'll just encourage thelisteners to do that.
Pierre, michelle, if you didn'tmind me saying that, not at all
.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
I think it's perfect West.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
I agree, I don't.
I don't think we have enoughfaith to be an atheist.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
I Like that here.
Tell everybody how to get intouch with us again If they want
to share any of theirexperiences or their stories or
anything they just want to getoff their chest.
By all means, we are in open.
We will be happy to listen.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yes, Contact us.
Get outreach over at findingfaith losing sleep at gmailcom.
Also on the X slash Twittermachine at finding faith pot.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Very good.
Thank you, pierre, michelle.
Hey, you guys have a goodEaster.
There's one thing that you gotto know for Easter and if you're
gonna go to church, I think yougot to know this, the and I
hope you guys know this If I sayhe has risen, what are you
supposed to say?
You don't know he is risen.
Indeed, there it is, there, itis okay.
You've heard it before.
I think I've quizzed you aboutthat before, but yes, that is an
(52:54):
old, old, old church traditionthat's gone way back, and this
Sunday, anyway, at my church,the pastor will say he has risen
and the church will say he hasrisen indeed.
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