October 10, 2024 • 54 mins
Imagine the world as a vast tapestry, interwoven with threads of destiny and choices. Can the seemingly random events in our lives hold a divine purpose? On the latest episode of Finding Faith and Losing Sleep, we unravel the intriguing concept of predestination as highlighted in Ephesians. We explore the mysterious synchronicities that challenge our understanding of free will and divine preordination, encouraging you to contemplate how your decisions might align with a higher plan. Through personal stories and engaging analogies, we invite you to reflect on the uncanny coincidences in your own journey and ponder their possible significance.
Our exploration doesn't stop at predestination; it extends into the fabric of cultural influences and spiritual warfare that shape our society. From historical movements to today's complex issues like the transgender movement and celebrity culture, we discuss how these elements intertwine with our spiritual beliefs. By analyzing the power dynamics and moral dilemmas faced by influential figures, we draw parallels to biblical teachings, offering insights into how these themes resonate with our personal values. Through this lens, we challenge you to consider the role of kindness and integrity in navigating the ever-evolving landscape of cultural and spiritual influences.
Finally, we turn our focus to the essence of community and spiritual practices beyond traditional church walls. Delving into the significance of prayer, protection, and unity, we highlight the importance of life groups and the church as a living community. Whether it's during times of adversity like the COVID-19 pandemic or natural disasters, we emphasize the transformative power of empathy and support. As we discuss the teachings of Ephesians, we encourage listeners to embrace their roles in fulfilling God's purpose, finding hope and purpose amid life's challenges, and recognizing the predestined good works prepared for us all.
Email: findingfaith.losingsleep@gmail.com
Twitter: @FindingFaithPod
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
it's time to wake up and pray up here on the finding
faith and losing sleep podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand joining us on this another
episode.
We were doing these.
Hey, back to back to back.
It feels like guys, even thoughI know it's not quite that fast
, but it feels like it doesbecause we took a long break
before and now we're right backin the saddle again.
Maybe just back to back.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, it's close enough.
We didn't go multiple monthsthis time, so it's good to be
back behind the mic again.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And the reason why I think that this momentum is
going is because we started abook of Ephesians last time and
we never even got into the bookof Ephesians because all I did
was talk about the book of Actsand going into Ephesians.
But you know, that was soimportant.
The last episode was soimportant to get a backdrop of
things and, michelle, you werethe one who said that you liked
(00:54):
all the like, the history ofthings, the writing down for us
to be able to learn from whatpeople did in the past.
Yeah, I sure do, and that isimportant because it is what
some of our founding faith is on, pierre, where we have this
built upon what the apostlestaught, and we're going to look
(01:15):
at that a little bit inEphesians as we skip around in
there really fast and just kindof take a big overview of that.
But you mentioned to me too,pierre, that this show was about
losing sleep and things thatkept us up at night.
And you know the last episode,really I don't know if it really
would keep people up at nightor not.
I don't know about that, but Ithink a lot of people have
(01:36):
biblical questions and we werejust kind of talking about those
things.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, you just we want to continue to just have
those difficult conversations aswell, which you probably would
have heard in our earlierepisodes, and I think you can
kind of intertwine when it comesto still have the biblical talk
, which we're going to do, butalso touch on some of the harder
topics that maybe stem from thebiblical talk or that can maybe
(02:02):
tie in to some of the biblicaltalk as well, and just making
sure that you know, we staygenuine to the show and the
title and just kind of get backto the basics a little bit.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Finding Faith and Losing Sleep podcast.
That's what our title is andthat's what we I don't know if
that's what we try not to do orthat's what we try to do.
I don't want to lose sleep, butthere are things at night that
keep me awake, that I thinkabout, that, do make me lose
sleep.
And, pierre, one of the thingsthat keeps me up and it's stuff
that you and I have talked about, I think, over the years, as
(02:34):
we've known each other a littlebit is predestination.
And that's what Ephesians 1talks about.
Just for a smidgen, in verses 7and 8, it says In Him, meaning
Christ, we have redemptionthrough His blood and the
forgiveness of our trespasses,according to the riches of His
grace, which he lavished upon usin all wisdom and insight.
Well, why do we have redemption?
(02:55):
Why do we have His forgivenessagainst our sins and everything?
And it goes back up over toverse five where it says he
predestined us I think it'stalking about God there to
adoption his sons through JesusChrist himself, according to the
kind intention of his will.
And I look at those words and Ithink that word predestined has
(03:19):
made me lose sleep over theyears, because I'm like well,
wait a minute now.
What part of my predestinationdid I step into at some point
where it was no longer my will?
And was it always not my will?
Did God always intend for me todo stuff that I didn't even
want to do, but I didn't?
You know, predestination isjust a tricky topic.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It is, it is and it's actually like kind of
throughout.
Like there's other parts whereit talks about like we were, we
were picked out for thisappointed time, like in history,
which is still like apredestined type of ordeal.
And you do, you start to thinkabout so wait, am I, am I making
my own decisions, like you know, because we got free will, or
(04:05):
are my decisions already knownand and god's well aware, I'm
going to mess this up, I'm goingto mess that up?
And it's hard to kind of thinkabout.
And I honestly think and I thinkpart of this comes from me just
going down so many near deathexperience rabbit holes and
watching those videos that wejust we kind of walk a bunch of
walk upon a bunch of options.
So, like we're, we're free will, but we get to like a
(04:27):
crossroads and I think, like thefork in the road and depending
on which way we go our way orgod's way we're gonna go down
that path and then at some pointwe're gonna get another fork
where god's gonna give usanother chance and I think that
can kind of still be predestinedwhere he's still kind of trying
to guide us but he's going tolet us choose what path we want
(04:49):
to go down and figure it outfrom there I'm laughing because
all I can think about is I usedto have books like that that
they could get from the bookfair, where you could choose
your ending.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
That's what it reminded me of when you were
talking about that.
It also made me think of one ofour friends who says, like you
can choose God's way, so my wayor the cry way.
Like I was like yeah, that'sabout right.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
That's a good one.
But then we run into likesynchronicities in life as well,
where it's uncontrollablecoincidences.
But the coincidences seem sounbelievable that it's just odd.
And do one of you want to sharethe coincidence that the three
of us shared in today?
That was very strange and justseemed to be out of the blue,
(05:38):
but I think the three of us havehad a lot of different
synchronicities throughout ourtimes of knowing each other, so
I'll ask one of you guys toshare the synchronicity from
today anyway.
Yeah, so I'll start.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
So today's my mom's birthday, if you listen to the
show.
My mom passed away about sevenyears ago now and it's usually a
tough day.
You just have those memoriesand you know you used to have
the celebrations and happybirthdays, and one of my cousins
even sent me like a photo ofold photo of her outside, you
(06:17):
know, one of our houses that westayed at with the happy
birthday balloons and all thatstuff behind.
So just a really really toughday, you know, usually.
You know, based off these lastseven years.
But we're hosting an exchangestudent, a really great girl.
She's coming from the countryof Hungary and guess what?
(06:37):
Guess what her birthday is.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I suppose you're asking me because Michelle, I
would assume, already knows,since she is your wife and lives
in the same house.
Today I will go out on a limband say today, yes, so her
birthday is today.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It just brought a different feeling, I guess you
could say, whereas these lastseven years or so it's kind of
just been honestly sorrow.
I wish I could say all mymemories are just joyful and
happy memories, but that's notthe case.
There's a lot of missing andstuff that takes place, but that
kind of changed a little bittoday to just see the joy of our
(07:16):
exchange student and it'sreally her first birthday here
in America and it's how we dogifts and how we do cake and
stuff along those lines.
So that was just reallyuplifting to see the joy that
she had and that she brought.
And then you made me aware ofsomething, Wes.
What did you make me aware oftoday in your own neck of the
woods?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
We were getting together to possibly podcast
tonight and I said, well, I'mnot sure all the plans, because
today's my mother's birthday.
So that was just when youshared with me that it was your
mother's birthday, and then youshared with me that it was, uh,
the young lady from Hungary'sbirthday.
I, it's just, it's just weird.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's just weird man and we've talked like for years,
like we do another podcasttogether as well, and I never
knew that about your mom.
And so the fact that ithappened today, when we're also
celebrating, you know, ourexchange student's birthday,
just kind of brought things fullcircle, and again it just felt
too spot on to be a coincidence.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, and like I think I've mentioned it a few
times different things here,like, for instance, the day I
had my miscarriage was Christmasand that ended up being the day
that Pierre proposed.
So he took a sad occasion andmade it happy for me, and the
day that my friend Mark passedaway ended up being Pierre's
(08:36):
birthday and the day that Oliviawas due.
So, like it's just, at somepoint, something you know, just
it goes beyond coincidence and Ithink God can use those things
and you have those periods ofsorrow.
But, like today for Pierre,like for us to see the joy on
(08:56):
what can be, and has been in thepast, a sad occasion, I think
it's beautiful to see how Godcan work and bring you joy when
you do need it.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And the only reason why I bring it up is because
we're talking aboutpredestination and going through
the book of Ephesians that mybuddy wanted me to go through on
the podcast and we started thatand then it got into that
predestination talk or Paul doeshere in this book and I was
like you know, there's just somany different synchronicities
that line up throughout lifewith us and other things, not
(09:29):
just you and me and not just thepodcast.
But I'm sure the listeners haverun across things too where
they're like whoa, that's weird.
And then the thought goes waita minute here, how did that line
up just like that?
You know, and I don'tnecessarily think that this is
what Paul is talking about inthe book of Ephesians, when I
think he's talking aboutpredestining things or things
(09:51):
happening up and synchronicitieshappening and making us do
things.
I love the analogy.
You had Pierre of the forks inthe road.
I think God was allowing peopleand has always had it in his
plan to be reconciled to himthrough the blood of Christ,
once the fall came through theblood of Christ.
And so that is what thepredestination is is that you're
(10:13):
just predetermined.
He's predetermined that he'sgoing to give people the
opportunity to change aroundtheir life, to believe in his
son, to be able to have thatforgiveness that comes through
that, and that's where I thinkthat that predestination comes
from.
The other stuff, I don't knowthat I have any answers for I
probably have more questionsthan I have answers.
Like you know, Pierre and I arerelated somehow, or I have a
(10:38):
really simple mind like thatWell, I mean, I think so where I
was going with the appointedtime.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I believe it goes back to Acts, which also, you
know, kind of starts the churchwith Paul and it kind of talks
about you know how one man, youknow he made it on nations to
inhabit the whole earth and hemarked out their appointed times
.
Acts 17, verse 26, there, andthe reason that's really come to
me here recently.
So like the world's kind ofcrazy right now.
(11:07):
I think we can all agree thatthe world's kind of gone mad and
you often hear like I'mconcerned about my kids or I
hate that my kids have to growup in this world.
And then I go to Acts 17, 26,and it says that he, you know,
got marked their appointed timesin history and it kind of
(11:30):
brings you comfort because to methat's saying that he's placed
our kids in this moment for areason as mad as we think the
world is, as crazy as we thinkthe world is, our kids have been
marked for this time.
This is their time to shine.
I've just seen differentconcerts and stuff.
(11:51):
Like the youth, they have somuch energy and so much passion
for God right now that I had nopart of honestly growing up.
It kind of brings me hope.
Man, again, you think about themadness and the chaos.
Yeah, you can have that fearlike, oh I hate that they have
to live in this time we shouldhave done a better job.
Or you can also look at it thatthey were appointed for this
(12:11):
time and you know God is gettingready to raise up a monster
himself.
And you think about and I knowthis is a touchy subject as well
you think about some of thetransgender type of situations
that also take place right now.
Like I don't know the ins andouts of that and the reasons
(12:32):
that people do it.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I'm sure they have their own reasons, but if You're
saying ins and outs and talkingtransgenderism, that's going a
little bit too far into thebiological conversation, I think
, for this podcast.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Potentially, but I'm just thinking like, so it's a
joke, I was trying to be funny.
I was trying to but on the flipside, you wonder like is satan
satan who I don't think we giveenough credit to at times?
Is he like trying to convincesome of these young people to go
to the other side because heknows what God's appointed them
(13:11):
for?
You ever thought about that?
There's a lot of confusionright now.
Again, I'm not on that side ofthe coin so I don't know what's
taking place over there, butwhen you think about the world
and where it's at, our kidsbeing appointed for this time, I
(13:32):
mean it'd be really smart ofSatan to try to convince someone
that has a predetermineddestiny that they're not who God
made them to be.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yes, I completely agree, and I often wonder, too,
how Satan uses those vessels,whatever vessels they are that
he uses.
Right, because he hasinstruments, just like God would
have instruments.
You know, we have people thatcome into our lives and we're,
like man, so glad I saw them,I'm so glad I met them, they
turned my life around.
You know, man, so glad I sawthem, I was so glad I met them.
They turned my life around.
You know, a lot of times we'llhave those people in our life.
(14:06):
And here's the thing, thoughSatan has similar tools, I
believe, in his toolbox, and sowhat tools is he using to be
able to get to, maybe, ourchildren ourselves?
Whoever it is, what tools doeshe have?
And here's some things I'vefound out over the years of
(14:31):
looking into weird things.
Right, I think that sometimesthe tools that he uses are man's
knowledge, money, wisdom andpower.
All right, and, and thosepeople I can pinpoint some of
those people that have thoseinstruments or those tools, or
(14:52):
those avenues, they're in thegovernment, and and I know I'm
not, I'm not trying to go in theweird West way or anything like
that, but um, it just recently,if I'm not mistaken, it was, uh
, a ice cube or ice tea, one ofthe ices, I don't know which one
one of the ices he he was, ifI'm not mistaken.
(15:19):
He talked about about how thegovernment was using rap music
in the 80s as an agent ofkeeping the black population
down by having the rap music andlisten I I sound like an old
man talking about that stuff.
I could tell you so many lyricsI used to listen to that stuff,
(15:40):
the n, all those I used tolisten to that stuff.
Right, so I know what he wastalking about, that they used it
to to perpetrate if I'm sayingthat the ears and the minds of a
generation, to actually getthem to believe that that is how
you are to act and and by doingthat it caused it was a cause
(16:10):
and effect thing.
Once it becomes popular, theneverybody wants to continue to
say it and then you think aboutchanting and stuff.
That's what we do wheneverwe're singing music.
We're chanting those lyrics,we're bringing power into those
words and next thing, you know,it's all popularized.
Everybody believes that's whatyou're doing.
Then we had the scene of MTV.
Come on, you know, come ontothe scene.
(16:32):
And so now we're giving visualeffects as well as sound effects
.
Sound effects like audio, audio.
We're giving audio and visualto this and a lot of times those
videos would recreate something, not only if you're talking
about gangstrap, where themurder and, uh, drugs and, and
(16:55):
then there's the sex that goesalong with that and you know all
the violence and everything.
But it was the same thing backin the hippie movement.
You think about.
You guys got these picturesright of hippies in your head,
right and Woodstock.
Let me give you Woodstock.
If I say Woodstock, you seethese flower power, kids and
(17:17):
everything right, and they allleft from home, all across the
world or I don't know if a worldbut the United States and they
all flock there.
The last time I checked, drugswere pretty expensive, right,
and my best memory of whathippies looked like they looked
homeless.
Where did all the money comefrom?
(17:39):
How did they afford all thedrugs that were there?
Where did they get that stuff?
And there's several books thatare out there that would say
well, they got it because thegovernment just handed it out to
them and it was an offshoot ofthe government.
If people wanted to protest theVietnam War, the only ones that
did that were the dirty hippies.
(18:01):
You must be a hippie, and sonow the hippies have the moniker
of being a bad person or anunknowledgeable person, a poor
person, and so they wanted tocreate that same kind of
environment during that hippiestage of the world or of our
United States history, as theydid in the 80s with rap music
(18:21):
and creating that kind ofculture.
They were just creatingcultures.
I say that and I'm just sayingthat if we're going to say Satan
uses people possibly toinfluence a generation, pierre,
I know that that's what they didaccording to some historians,
to some historians in theWoodstock era.
(18:43):
I know that's what they didaccording to some historians in
the 80s.
It doesn't put it beyond me tothink that they're doing the
same thing now with thetransgender movement.
And I will just point directlyto the White House and say look
at all the people that have beenin the White House as part of
(19:06):
different administrations,putting in charge of different
administrations, and there'sbeen cross-dressers, transgender
individuals in high politicalpositions.
It just makes me say, well,maybe they're doing that with
that as well, pierre, and youand I haven't talked about that
(19:26):
much, so I'm glad you brought itup.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
We haven't talked about it really at all.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Not to that extent.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Which is fitting because we're discussing
Ephesians right.
So you have your Bible, youhave your chips in front of you,
wes.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I do?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I got my bag of chips right here.
So Ephesians 6, chapter 6,verse 12.
What version of the Bible areyou reading out of?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
I read out of the New American Standard Version sir.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And so what does that verse say in your New American
Standard Version?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but
against the rulers, against thepowers, against the world
forces of its darkness, againstthe spiritual forces of
wickedness in all heavenlyplaces, in the heavenly places.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And what I find interesting.
So there's so many differenttranslations.
Do you have?
Can you pull one up?
Yeah, ephesians 6.12, and Idon't know what version you'll
have.
I can make one up.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I can make up a version we talk about.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
West.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Vernacular.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Here's the NIV.
What's the NIV say?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but
against the rulers, against theauthorities, against the powers
of this dark world and againstthe spiritual forces of evil in
the heavenly realms.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So many of these translate to the powers of the
dark world.
When you look at a lot of thesetranslations or the world
forces, are you familiar withthe Geneva Bible?
Yeah, so if you're not, theGeneva Bible was basically
before the King James Version.
(21:10):
And when you look at thetranslation of the Geneva Bible,
it says worldly governors there, which is very interesting, not
powers of dark forces, not theworld dark.
It says worldly governors,which I think is pretty cut and
(21:30):
dry.
I found it actually prettyinteresting that once the king's
version came out, that thatpart was kind of translated a
little bit, to not mention thestraight facts that it said
worldly governors as a part ofthat there.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Do you remember, michelle, what Nebuchadnezzar's
downfall was?
Do you remember what he waskind of claiming as he stood
upon his tower?
Nope, nebuchadnezzar in the OldTestament, I think in the book
of Daniel, is where it is.
He's basically up there andhe's just saying look at what I
have made, I am God, I am God.
(22:09):
And then God said no, you'renot.
And turned him into basically awild beast I think he lost his
mind, kind of a thing, andrunning out there in the woods
and everything, finally repentedand came back to his senses and
God restored him.
But it's just an example of aworld leader, pierre, even in a
(22:31):
biblical time, who thought hewas God and God had to humble
him right.
And I just think that if youhave that, that you, if you have
that much power, if you havethat much money, you have that
much influence over being ableto do things, maybe you do want
to try to create your ownenvironment.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I'm sure it comes to that.
I've never had that, that powerto know, and I probably never
want it.
And it was talked about before.
Like I find it interesting thatmost folks that are rich and
famous will tell you that theydon't wish that on anyone, and
us that aren't rich and famoususually would scoff or laugh at
that, like, yeah, I'm sure allthat money is so awful to have,
(23:12):
but when you look at some of thethings that you see within,
know, within, like the celebritycommunity so I'll turn to you
bag, I know you're in realitytelevision and all that type of
stuff so what, uh, what do youoften see, like which, within
the celebrity culture?
Like what are the things thatyou you kind of see come about
(23:32):
celebrities and what they do andhow they kind of live their
life?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
I mean like in the public eye, it's in general.
Yeah, like typically it's inthe public eye.
Typically there's a lot ofalcohol involved.
I mean I think that you seethat they don't have any privacy
at all.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, I don't know what you're looking for here,
like when you look at that, thatculture.
So you look at jenniferanderson, brad pitt who's the
next person that comes to mindafter brad pitt?
Jennifer anderson who you thinkof?
Anybody?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
yep, but I can't think of her name, so angelina
jolie.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Thank you, jolie yeah , but where I'm getting at it so
like their, their culture, alot of it they're just divorcing
they're divorcing, they'reswitching partners and they're
just, they're just kind ofrunning wild, and even those
that are married.
So I've always been a a big fanof, like, justin timberlake's
music growing up.
(24:36):
Uh, what, even him, like he'sgotten in in trouble and you
know messing around on his wife,you know, who's also an actress
, with jessica bill and um wes.
I know you've you kind of know.
You know something you want totalk about was with the man
formerly known as puff daddy,who goes by diddy, and you know
he's had like jennifer lopez,you know, at one point, but now
(24:58):
you know he's in the news forother reasons.
What are your thoughts on Diddy?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Look, you're getting into this kind of conversation
here, pierre.
This is going to make my pastorgive me a phone call, I think
in a little while.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
These are the folks that some people look up to,
some people want to be like.
He had a show that folks weretrying out to try to be a part
of his making the band and youknow they're part of, they're
part of this whole famous and Iknow they're not our politicians
, but they still have a lot ofpower and a lot of pull on the
public eye well, and and, andthe thought is by some people
(25:37):
that I know is that this poweris given to an individual like
Sean Combs.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Okay, I can't.
It's hard for me to say PuffDaddy.
I can't refer to somebody knownas Puffy.
I've never had a friend namedPuffy or P Diddy, you know hey.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
P.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Diddy, so I'd probably call him Mr Combs.
But Sean Combs is given thatkind of power to be able to get
those kind of details and putpeople in compromising positions
, to be able to have the actionsfilmed so that blackmail could
be used against them.
So that blackmail could be usedagainst them and you could say,
(26:18):
well, wes, that is crazy talk.
Man, that is crazy talk.
Yeah, it is.
But maybe where there's a lotof smoke, there's fire, right,
and there was that.
It really reminded me of thewhole Epstein Island thing.
I mean, it's the same exactplay, it's the same exact script
.
You could say but you know, wes, that just, and listen, these
(26:42):
are the conversations that go onin my head that keep me up at
night, where I'm saying Wes, tomyself all right, wes, that
doesn't really happen in reallife.
And then honestly and this is,you can just Google this and it
depends on how much you trustGoogle, ok, how much you?
trust Google Because it's likewell, wes, the government, would
(27:03):
never do anything like that.
They would never give a manthat kind of power to be able to
get that kind of dirt onsomebody to make them do
something, because now they gotthe dirt on them, right?
So you think about all thedifferent people that we talked
about that are in the news, likeyou're saying, that are in
entertainment business andeverything.
Well, if you have dirt onsomebody, you can make them do
(27:27):
something that maybe theywouldn't necessarily want to do.
You can make them say somethingthat they wouldn't necessarily
want to say.
Now, here's the deal with that.
You and I don't think that way,right?
That's not how we get resultsin life.
I'm kind to people.
I feel bad if I try to.
You know, strong-arm somebodyinto doing something right.
(27:48):
I just can't.
That doesn't cross my mindreally.
You know what I mean.
Like, it's just not how Ioperate, because I want to love
my neighbors myself, as Jesushas taught me.
I want to.
That's my goal in life.
My goal in life is to notstrong-arm somebody into getting
them to do what I want them todo.
You can hold on, hold on.
(28:09):
You can Google this phrase, andI hate to.
I don't like to say this phraseout loud.
I don't know where mynine-year-old is.
You can Google the phraseOperation Midnight Climax.
Okay, I know all the wordsthere don't sound good to get.
I'm not Googling that.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Googling that.
When I read about thatoperation, that's when the light
bulb went off for me thatpeople that have power don't
(28:50):
think the way I do.
They were using that as anexperiment, operation Midnight
Clonics as an experiment.
What they did and this is goingto sound crazy they had
successful businessmen in SanFrancisco.
They got an apartment buildingin San Francisco when I say they
(29:10):
, it was either the FBI, cia,government, the powers that be
Can we just say that Powers thatbe, since we're in the book of
Ephesians and they enticed thewell-to-do businessmen in that
area with prostitutes and theylured them.
(29:30):
I say lured them.
You know a woman and a man, youknow how the luring goes, a man
, you know how the luring goes.
And then when they got themback into the hotel rooms LSD
and alcohol and two-way mirrors,and they were experimenting to
(29:53):
get dirt on these guys and theywould do it a couple of times
and once they had the dirt onthese guys, they would tell the
men that they had that dirt andthey essentially were treating
them like lab rats because theywanted to see what their
reactions would be.
And there were men jumping outof windows that would, you know,
didn't know how to react otherthan taking their own life.
I don't know what other men did.
(30:16):
It didn't give every detail ofevery man, so that's the one
that went off in my head of like, okay, there may be people who
don't think the same way as I do, right, there may be people who
were taught differently than Iwas.
There may be people who do.
And then I think back, though,also like these are Old
(30:38):
Testament stories too, like thisyou know, as you go throughout
time, there's just some of thesame things that were talked
about in the Old Testament aswell, where men are just messing
up and messing with women andjust doing some wrong things.
And so I think back to all that.
I think these people all havepower, the power is given to
(30:58):
them, and then they can use itfor their own gain.
That's what I think.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, I think that's always been the case.
We talked earlier.
History repeats itself oftenand I think that's still the
case today.
Once you have that type ofpower and authority, I think
folks have a fear of losing it.
I think we even see it in ourgovernment, like I know,
(31:27):
michelle and I often talk Like Icould care less about either
one of our presidentialcandidates right now, if I'm
being honest, and it's becauseour country is so divided, yep,
and I.
I think it's intentional,because you have one party that
wants majority of the power andto be able to call the shots and
(31:48):
have control and you have theother party doing the same and
the candidates really have justbecome puppets, if you ask me.
And it it's basically just afight for party over party and
each one tries to manipulate thepublic into taking their side
and do awful things in order topoint their finger at the other
(32:08):
side, when you really didn't seethat even a few years ago.
You can even look back atwhatever you want to say about
Clinton, bush, obama, all thesethings, they still are close.
You can still say they're evenfriends.
You see them at certain events.
They're sitting at the table,they're laughing.
(32:28):
I think they all still had thegreater good in mind of the
country.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Just debating the topics, correct.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
I don't think that's the case any longer.
I think it's all about wantingto be right, wanting to be in
control, and that's why socialmedia and all the algorithms are
just pulling people so farapart, because if you're a Trump
supporter, you're crazy, and ifyou're on the other side,
you're crazy if you're asupporter of the Democrats in
(33:01):
Kamala.
So you can't win because nomatter what side of the coin you
are, on it looks like you'recrazy based off what your
beliefs are.
And I feel like that's theintention.
And I go back to this comic andI think I talked about the comic
before where a king's on hiscastle and he has all the public
eye out there with fire andpitchforks.
(33:22):
He's like what are we going todo?
And the answer was you just gotto convince those with the fire
that the people with thepitchforks are trying to take
away their fire, and that'sthat's basically what it comes
down to today.
He, he got guns, for example,gun violence.
You talk about that and theschool shootings and all the
things that happen, but versussomething happening, the
(33:44):
question is just kind of turnedto, where you just try to make
those with guns think that thosewithout them are trying to take
their guns away.
All of a sudden, that causeschaos, and you're still in power
, because the attention's nowturned away from you.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
It's politicized.
If that's a word, hey, I thinkI might've made up my own word
there.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Very good, I'm proud of you.
Michelle, michelle, the?
Um.
We're talking a lot aboutpeople who have a lot of power,
but I think it's our uh friend,maybe a listener to the, to the
podcast.
Who's the?
Who's the rapper?
(34:24):
That Christian rapper that yousaid your daughter really likes
Pierre.
What's his name?
Kb, kb.
I think it's KB who says howdoes it stay on top?
He becomes a servant of all iswhat he says, because when
you're a servant of all, youhave nowhere left to fall.
I'm surprised.
I remembered that, to be honestwith you, in Ephesians, chapter
(34:47):
3, verse 8, this is what Paulsays, and this let me preface
this this is why all the stuffthat we're talking about now and
all the stuff that's gonethrough my head, the things I
said, keep me up at night.
The things I've talked about inthis episode, the things you
brought up here, the things youbrought up Michelle, this is
what those topics right thereI'm just going to be blunt and
(35:10):
honest it's what makes mebelieve in the Bible more.
Believe in the Bible more,because the Bible is so
contradictory in premise to allthose things, and I know I said
that those things were in theBible.
Some of those things were inthe Bible in the Old Testament.
(35:36):
But the way God talks aboutlove, the way the New Testament
is set up around loving eachother, serving each other, it's
so contradictory to all thosethings that we're talking about
from the people who have powernow.
In Ephesians, chapter 3, verse 8, paul says To me the very least
(36:00):
of all saints.
This grace was given to preachto the Gentiles the unfathomable
riches of Christ.
He's in prison when he'swriting this Prison and he's
including himself in with saintsyou know, which is cool and
he's talking about everybody whobelieves in Christ is a saint,
but he says the very least ofthem.
I'm not the top of the ladder,oh, no, no, no.
I'm not the top of the ladder,oh, no, no, no, I am the very
(36:21):
lowest of the ladder.
You know, and that is a qualityto have in our lives about
being a servant.
And my little notes on this wasto think about, like where you
go to church, what are some ofthe qualifications or qualities
(36:43):
of a good church?
Well, one of the things isbuilt on the apostles' teaching
right, biblical teaching.
And then in my little noteshere, this was a quality of the
guy or guys whoever is up incharge of the church.
Do they raise themselves aboveeveryone else?
(37:06):
Do they have the bravado ofbeing, whatever you know, high
and mighty?
Do they live in a $8 million,$10 million, $20 million mansion
?
Or do they treat themselves andothers like they are, the
servants like Paul is talkingabout here?
I don't know what you thinkabout that, michelle.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I mean, I think that it's, it is a true marker of
what's internal, like we, ifyou're a pastor, like you said,
lives in that million dollarhouse, then maybe what's on the
inside is, you know, kind ofbeing portrayed on the outside
(37:54):
and you get to see that and, um,if they're acting and bigger
than life, then maybe that'swhat they believe of themselves
on the inside and are they trulya servant.
And so, you know, I, I think Ihave always truly believed that
if you are something, you don'thave to tell a soul, it's going
(38:17):
to show.
But if you have to tellsomebody, you're something.
So if you are something, youdon't have to tell a soul, it's
going to show.
But if you have to tellsomebody, you're something.
So if you have to tell somebodythat you're a Christian, if you
have to tell somebody you're agood person.
If you have to tell somebodyyou're a great athlete, whatever
it might be, if you have totell somebody, you're trying to
convince them and probablyyourself, that you are, because
you may not be, but if you are,the proof is in the pudding and
(38:37):
it's going to show for itself.
So I think the same thing goesfor the pastors or for those
people who are in, you know, thespotlight, or in the leaders of
the world, or whatever you wantto say.
I think the proof is in thepudding If you are something,
it's going to show for itself.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
And Pierre, you had mentioned just about like the
two different sides ofeverything it feels like now and
how it's pitted against eachother and it's no longer working
for the common good.
And once again the Biblebecomes more reliable to me
because it goes contrary tothose things of the flesh that
we had talked about fromEphesians there.
But we know that, the things ofthe flesh that we had talked
(39:20):
about from Ephesians there.
But we know that the things ofthe flesh just aren't good for
us, right?
I mean, it doesn't, man?
I love candy corn.
It's that time of year y'allthis year, I you have peanuts.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
You have peanuts.
It tastes like a payday.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
No, no, no, no, you're ruining candy corn I used
to think the candy cornpumpkins.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
That's the only way I like it, the candy corn
pumpkins.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Oh, buddy, they're too sweet, exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
That's kind of the point is that there are things
of the flesh that teach us thattoo much of it is not good for
us, right?
And too many little marshmallowpumpkins are just are not very
good for my belly, even thoughit says like there's 12 servings
, 14, 16 servings in a bag,depending on the size of the bag
(40:05):
.
I will put a challenge to thatevery single time I open the bag
.
There's no way that that'ssupposed to be real.
But Pierre, ephesians 1, is itEphesians 1, pierre?
No, it's Ephesians 2, pierre.
It's Ephesians, chapter 2.
It says that I guess I will beright there in verse 19,.
(40:29):
My friend, is that okay withyou?
Yeah, go for it.
You are no longer strangers andaliens, but you are fellow
citizens with the saints and areof God's household, having been
built upon the foundation ofthe apostle and the prophets,
christ Jesus himself being thecornerstone, from whom the whole
building being fitted togetheris growing into a holy temple in
(40:53):
the Lord in whom you are beingbuilt together in a dwelling God
in the spirit.
Temple in the Lord in whom youare being built together in a
dwelling God in the Spirit.
Now we had all those differentbackgrounds that we talked about
from Ephesians before and howit was a place that had a lot of
different people coming in andout of there and how that was
perfect for God.
(41:14):
And so Paul is talking aboutall those different people being
in from all those differentplaces, having all those
different habits, having allthose different traditions.
But he said no, no, you guysare all being built together as
one thing here, one temple, andup.
A couple of other verses there.
We'll just go to verse 16.
It says that he might reconcilethem both into one body to God
(41:34):
through the cross, that by it,having put it to death the
enmity, put it to death theenmity, putting to death hatred,
putting to death fighting, andall of these things just start
becoming one.
And so there's unity in theBible, or at least there should
be unity in the Bible, andsometimes people use that
against others as well.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
They do and I think it's really interesting.
So we're we're going back tothese times.
So when you, when you think ofthe church today, what do you?
What do you think of?
When someone says I'm going tochurch, where do you think
they're going?
A building, a building.
When you look back here, whenyou're, when you're talking
(42:16):
about the church, and you know,no, but they they did.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
They did get together , but he wasn't talking about a
building.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
He wasn't they were.
They were just gatheringwherever they could gather.
Sometimes it was in homes,sometimes it was just out in the
open, but it was just agathering of, of god's people.
That was.
That was the church.
It wasn't.
It wasn't a building like it isnow, or that's what people kind
of put it under.
And so I think we got to keepthat in mind, like, when we talk
(42:52):
about the church, it was neverabout the building, it was about
God's people and comingtogether in community, serving
each other, serving others, andI just hope people don't get
away from that, and I just hopepeople don't get away from that.
You know, oftentimes you hearabout the church.
Hurt that kind of takes placein churches and it's usually
(43:14):
it's not the building that hurtsyou, it's the people.
And so we just got to be betterat being the church ourselves,
and our bodies are templestechnically.
We're supposed to, you know,make room for the Holy Spirit,
make room for God to enter us,and that's the temple.
Our bodies are templestechnically.
We're supposed to, you know,make room for the, the holy
spirit, make room for god toenter us, and that's the temple.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
our bodies are temples, we are the church, and
I think we just gotta I don'tknow kind of find a way to, to
do a better of of being that,that temple for god well, I
think it is easier when you goto church, though, to to be
moved and to be filled, because,like, for instance, when COVID
(43:53):
was around and we're trying todo church online, I can tell you
I personally did not get the.
The message could be just asgood, but there's a different
feeling when I'm in the buildingand in person than via a screen
or whatnot.
Like, it's just a differentfeeling for me, and I think
(44:14):
that's probably the same formost people.
But so I don't think I don'tthink you're necessarily saying
like, don't go to church.
You're just saying make surethat you keep in mind that, like
pastor, our pastor always saysbe the church.
Like when you leave thatbuilding, you do.
You have to take it uponyourself to continue to be the
(44:35):
church to others and to in yourhomes and you know your
workplaces and to others in thecommunity and you don't have to
go to that building right to be.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
I mean, yeah, we're not on the screen, but if you're
just gathering together, likeeven for our front of our life
groups, our life groups, like wehave so many good discussions
and so uplifting, and you know,michelle and I, you know, lead
one and there's times where wedidn't want to go, like we're
leaders and we're like we don'twant to do this tonight, but we
show up and maybe only one ortwo other people show up and
(45:05):
it's like, okay, are we wastingour time here?
But once we start to dive inand just have discussions, like
some of our best evenings, youknow we left.
You know were nights.
We didn't want to show up inthe first place, you know, but
we showed up, god showed up withus and we had good discussions,
good conversations.
We loved on each other, youknow, and that was out the
(45:27):
pastor.
The pastor wasn't there and infact our pastor often says that
the reason for life groups is sowe can be the pastor.
You know, the church is so bigwhen you think about, you know,
sunday mornings and all thepeople in there, there's no way
that the pastor themselves canreach all those people.
The reason for these smallgroups and live groups is so
(45:49):
others can pastor to each otherand you know open up to about,
you know just life and you knowwhat struggles are and you know
sharing and similarities andjust be able to be empathetic
with each other andcompassionate throughout life.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I think one of the reasons why some are more
empathetic than others maybe isbecause they feel the
forgiveness of God, maybe alittle bit stronger because
they've strayed away, or maybethey're just a little bit better
at vocalizing it or verbalizingit.
And Paul says in chapter 2, youwere dead in your sins and your
trespasses, which you formerlywalked according to the course
(46:27):
of this world, according to theprince of the power of the air,
of the spirit that is nowworking in the sons of
disobedience, among whom themtoo, we all were formerly lived
in the lust of our flesh,indulging in the desires of the
flesh and of the mind, and wereby nature children of wrath,
even as all the rest, but Godbeing rich in his mercy because
(46:49):
of his great love in which heloved us.
Even when we See that Jesus, inorder that in the ages to come
he might show the surpassingriches of his grace in the
kindness toward us in ChristJesus, see that he's talking
(47:13):
about our podcast there, becausein the ages to come our podcast
will still be out there andwe'll still be showing people
the kindness of Christ.
That's what we'll be doing, forby grace you have been saved.
This is Ephesians, chapter two,verse eight, for by grace you
have been saved through faith,and it's not of yourselves, it
is the gift of God, not as aresult of anything you've done,
(47:34):
not works that no one can boast.
We are His workmanship, createdin Christ Jesus for good works
which God prepared beforehandthat we should walk in them.
God back to the wholepredestinational thing.
God prepared these works for usto do and it's good works, not
(47:58):
P Diddy works, not J Lowellworks, not any of those kind of
works.
God prepared his own work forus to do and we are his tools
that he uses to get his job done.
And it is up to us to do that,to preserve the peace of God.
That brings us to Ephesians.
(48:20):
I gotta read Ephesians 4.
I'm on a roll.
I'm on a roll.
There is one body, one spirit,just as also you were called in
one hope of your calling.
One Lord, one faith, onebaptism, one God and Father of
all who are over, all andthrough, all and in all.
We are to preserve that onenessfor God, because that's when
(48:46):
big things can happen.
Oneness for God, because that'swhen big things can happen.
And it's up to all of us to getto work to do the things that
he's called us to do, which he'sprepared beforehand, and
there's going to be weird littlesynchronicities that if you
don't take the time in life toopen up your eyes and allow Him
to show you what those littlesynchronicities are, you might
(49:07):
miss them right, and maybe theperson sitting next to you in
the cubicle, maybe the personstanding in front of you at the
line.
It just may be so, but juststart a conversation and you
never know what littlesynchronicities God has in store
for you that day.
That's the exciting ride and,pierre and Michelle, I am glad I
am on the ride with y'all.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
We're glad too, Wes.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
And I think that oftentimes we chalk those little
synchronicities up tocoincidence, like we said before
, and fail to see the beauty ofGod, like how he brings people
together and make you have thataha moment and I think we had
one of those today Like it waslike oh see how that works.
We didn't know that all theseyears.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
It definitely was an aha moment, Pierre.
If people want to complainabout this episode, where would
they do?
Speaker 2 (49:59):
that, yeah, so you're going to go to at loafing it on
Twitter.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
You're going to start with me.
You're coming in hot on Twitter.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
You're going to start with me.
You're coming in hot.
You can email us atfindyfaithloseysleep at gmailcom
.
We are on Twitter, slash x atfindingfaithpod.
If you listen on Apple Podcasts, there's an option to send a
text message as well.
You can send us over a voicemessage and again address that
to Wes as well.
Leave your reviews, if you canit, over a voice message and
(50:28):
again address that to Wes aswell.
And leave your reviews if youcan.
You know it helps the algorithm.
We don't need it for anything,but it helps to get our show out
there to others.
So, if you can leave us areview, slap some stars on there
, preferably the you know, thefive stars and a good review.
But you know, if you don't likewhat we're saying, that's okay
too.
We love you anyways.
But yeah, those are ways youcan reach out to us and thank
(50:49):
you for all the listeners thathave been listening.
Continue listening through thehighs, through the lows, through
the breaks, when we're not ableto get behind the microphone.
We truly appreciate it and hopethat you know we're bringing
something into your earbuds oryour car or wherever you're
listening from each day.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Absolutely, definitely.
We do appreciate all thosethings and any kind words it's
always good to hear from you andany kind of topics you want us
to talk about, we'll be happy totackle those things.
And if you do follow me over onTwitter, if you go over to my
Twitter handle, I am sure youwill find a lot of those
conversations I have with myselfon Twitter.
If you just go in the littlesearch bar it'll.
It'll lead you to links.
I am sure of that, becausesometimes that was the only you
(51:26):
know.
You know it felt, it really feltlike you protect people
sometimes that don't know thatkind of information, because I
do think that people try to takeadvantage of people, and they
do.
I've seen them do it over andover and over again and I just I
want to protect people, man,because I love people.
I don't want to see people gethurt.
(51:47):
I don't want to see them fallinto those same patterns of
self-destruction that I've seenso many people fall into during
my days while I've been here onthis earth.
Life's too short to be ablejust to go around doing all
those things and to not live forother people.
It's just way too short.
But we do appreciate everybodyand thank you so much for
listening and continue to prayfor us, and we'll continue to
(52:09):
pray for you.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Hey, wes, before you end that I know you ended it
already, but I think we would beremiss if we don't say that,
you know, acknowledge that we'repraying for everyone who has
been affected by the previoushurricane and by this hurricane
coming through now.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Definitely, and that is fresh on my mind.
It's one of those things that Ilook at and keep updated.
I can't believe the events thathappened in some of those areas
of Tennessee and justunbelievable footage that we see
, and so thankful for the peoplewho are pressing through to any
kind of obstructions, that theyhave to be able to tend to the
(52:48):
needs of other people.
And, Father, right now I justwant to lift those people up.
I want to lift up all theworkers that are there.
So, Lord, we live in thisfallen world and there are going
to be things that happen, andwe are so thankful that you have
given us the good news thatthis world is not the last of it
all, that there is an eternalhome for us where there's no
(53:08):
pain, no suffering, no sorrow,no tears.
Father, what a blessing it isto have that knowledge so that
we don't have our hopes justbuilt into the things that can
be destroyed here on this earth.
Thank you so much for the lovethat you've shown to all of us
and I ask that you'll continueto do so.
Thank you so much for beingpatient with me and with others
and allowing me to have theopportunity to find that fork in
(53:30):
the road that you put there infront of me, to be able to
listen to the good news that wasshared with me and to be able
to put my old self away, eventhough it's been a slow, slow
progress.
Father, I thank you so much forthat opportunity and we thank
you for being patient with us.
I ask that you'll continue tobe patient with others as they
come to know you and have yoursalvation.
Father, we ask that you'llcontinue to use us all of us who
(53:53):
are listening to be able to beyour workers, Give us
opportunities to be able toshare your gospel and also give
us the boldness and theconfidence to do so, never being
ashamed of who we are or whatyou have made us into, Father,
because of how much you've lovedus.
Thank you for loving us beforewe ever loved you.
We pray all this in Jesus'sname, Amen.
Amen.
it's time to wake up and pray up here on the finding
faith and losing sleep podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand joining us on this another
episode.
We were doing these.
Hey, back to back to back.
It feels like guys, even thoughI know it's not quite that fast
, but it feels like it doesbecause we took a long break
before and now we're right backin the saddle again.
Maybe just back to back.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, it's close enough.
We didn't go multiple monthsthis time, so it's good to be
back behind the mic again.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And the reason why I think that this momentum is
going is because we started abook of Ephesians last time and
we never even got into the bookof Ephesians because all I did
was talk about the book of Actsand going into Ephesians.
But you know, that was soimportant.
The last episode was soimportant to get a backdrop of
things and, michelle, you werethe one who said that you liked
(00:54):
all the like, the history ofthings, the writing down for us
to be able to learn from whatpeople did in the past.
Yeah, I sure do, and that isimportant because it is what
some of our founding faith is on, pierre, where we have this
built upon what the apostlestaught, and we're going to look
(01:15):
at that a little bit inEphesians as we skip around in
there really fast and just kindof take a big overview of that.
But you mentioned to me too,pierre, that this show was about
losing sleep and things thatkept us up at night.
And you know the last episode,really I don't know if it really
would keep people up at nightor not.
I don't know about that, but Ithink a lot of people have
(01:36):
biblical questions and we werejust kind of talking about those
things.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, you just we want to continue to just have
those difficult conversations aswell, which you probably would
have heard in our earlierepisodes, and I think you can
kind of intertwine when it comesto still have the biblical talk
, which we're going to do, butalso touch on some of the harder
topics that maybe stem from thebiblical talk or that can maybe
(02:02):
tie in to some of the biblicaltalk as well, and just making
sure that you know, we staygenuine to the show and the
title and just kind of get backto the basics a little bit.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Finding Faith and Losing Sleep podcast.
That's what our title is andthat's what we I don't know if
that's what we try not to do orthat's what we try to do.
I don't want to lose sleep, butthere are things at night that
keep me awake, that I thinkabout, that, do make me lose
sleep.
And, pierre, one of the thingsthat keeps me up and it's stuff
that you and I have talked about, I think, over the years, as
(02:34):
we've known each other a littlebit is predestination.
And that's what Ephesians 1talks about.
Just for a smidgen, in verses 7and 8, it says In Him, meaning
Christ, we have redemptionthrough His blood and the
forgiveness of our trespasses,according to the riches of His
grace, which he lavished upon usin all wisdom and insight.
Well, why do we have redemption?
(02:55):
Why do we have His forgivenessagainst our sins and everything?
And it goes back up over toverse five where it says he
predestined us I think it'stalking about God there to
adoption his sons through JesusChrist himself, according to the
kind intention of his will.
And I look at those words and Ithink that word predestined has
(03:19):
made me lose sleep over theyears, because I'm like well,
wait a minute now.
What part of my predestinationdid I step into at some point
where it was no longer my will?
And was it always not my will?
Did God always intend for me todo stuff that I didn't even
want to do, but I didn't?
You know, predestination isjust a tricky topic.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
It is, it is and it's actually like kind of
throughout.
Like there's other parts whereit talks about like we were, we
were picked out for thisappointed time, like in history,
which is still like apredestined type of ordeal.
And you do, you start to thinkabout so wait, am I, am I making
my own decisions, like you know, because we got free will, or
(04:05):
are my decisions already knownand and god's well aware, I'm
going to mess this up, I'm goingto mess that up?
And it's hard to kind of thinkabout.
And I honestly think and I thinkpart of this comes from me just
going down so many near deathexperience rabbit holes and
watching those videos that wejust we kind of walk a bunch of
walk upon a bunch of options.
So, like we're, we're free will, but we get to like a
(04:27):
crossroads and I think, like thefork in the road and depending
on which way we go our way orgod's way we're gonna go down
that path and then at some pointwe're gonna get another fork
where god's gonna give usanother chance and I think that
can kind of still be predestinedwhere he's still kind of trying
to guide us but he's going tolet us choose what path we want
(04:49):
to go down and figure it outfrom there I'm laughing because
all I can think about is I usedto have books like that that
they could get from the bookfair, where you could choose
your ending.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
That's what it reminded me of when you were
talking about that.
It also made me think of one ofour friends who says, like you
can choose God's way, so my wayor the cry way.
Like I was like yeah, that'sabout right.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
That's a good one.
But then we run into likesynchronicities in life as well,
where it's uncontrollablecoincidences.
But the coincidences seem sounbelievable that it's just odd.
And do one of you want to sharethe coincidence that the three
of us shared in today?
That was very strange and justseemed to be out of the blue,
(05:38):
but I think the three of us havehad a lot of different
synchronicities throughout ourtimes of knowing each other, so
I'll ask one of you guys toshare the synchronicity from
today anyway.
Yeah, so I'll start.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
So today's my mom's birthday, if you listen to the
show.
My mom passed away about sevenyears ago now and it's usually a
tough day.
You just have those memoriesand you know you used to have
the celebrations and happybirthdays, and one of my cousins
even sent me like a photo ofold photo of her outside, you
(06:17):
know, one of our houses that westayed at with the happy
birthday balloons and all thatstuff behind.
So just a really really toughday, you know, usually.
You know, based off these lastseven years.
But we're hosting an exchangestudent, a really great girl.
She's coming from the countryof Hungary and guess what?
(06:37):
Guess what her birthday is.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I suppose you're asking me because Michelle, I
would assume, already knows,since she is your wife and lives
in the same house.
Today I will go out on a limband say today, yes, so her
birthday is today.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It just brought a different feeling, I guess you
could say, whereas these lastseven years or so it's kind of
just been honestly sorrow.
I wish I could say all mymemories are just joyful and
happy memories, but that's notthe case.
There's a lot of missing andstuff that takes place, but that
kind of changed a little bittoday to just see the joy of our
(07:16):
exchange student and it'sreally her first birthday here
in America and it's how we dogifts and how we do cake and
stuff along those lines.
So that was just reallyuplifting to see the joy that
she had and that she brought.
And then you made me aware ofsomething, Wes.
What did you make me aware oftoday in your own neck of the
woods?
Speaker 1 (07:36):
We were getting together to possibly podcast
tonight and I said, well, I'mnot sure all the plans, because
today's my mother's birthday.
So that was just when youshared with me that it was your
mother's birthday, and then youshared with me that it was, uh,
the young lady from Hungary'sbirthday.
I, it's just, it's just weird.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's just weird man and we've talked like for years,
like we do another podcasttogether as well, and I never
knew that about your mom.
And so the fact that ithappened today, when we're also
celebrating, you know, ourexchange student's birthday,
just kind of brought things fullcircle, and again it just felt
too spot on to be a coincidence.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, and like I think I've mentioned it a few
times different things here,like, for instance, the day I
had my miscarriage was Christmasand that ended up being the day
that Pierre proposed.
So he took a sad occasion andmade it happy for me, and the
day that my friend Mark passedaway ended up being Pierre's
(08:36):
birthday and the day that Oliviawas due.
So, like it's just, at somepoint, something you know, just
it goes beyond coincidence and Ithink God can use those things
and you have those periods ofsorrow.
But, like today for Pierre,like for us to see the joy on
(08:56):
what can be, and has been in thepast, a sad occasion, I think
it's beautiful to see how Godcan work and bring you joy when
you do need it.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And the only reason why I bring it up is because
we're talking aboutpredestination and going through
the book of Ephesians that mybuddy wanted me to go through on
the podcast and we started thatand then it got into that
predestination talk or Paul doeshere in this book and I was
like you know, there's just somany different synchronicities
that line up throughout lifewith us and other things, not
(09:29):
just you and me and not just thepodcast.
But I'm sure the listeners haverun across things too where
they're like whoa, that's weird.
And then the thought goes waita minute here, how did that line
up just like that?
You know, and I don'tnecessarily think that this is
what Paul is talking about inthe book of Ephesians, when I
think he's talking aboutpredestining things or things
(09:51):
happening up and synchronicitieshappening and making us do
things.
I love the analogy.
You had Pierre of the forks inthe road.
I think God was allowing peopleand has always had it in his
plan to be reconciled to himthrough the blood of Christ,
once the fall came through theblood of Christ.
And so that is what thepredestination is is that you're
(10:13):
just predetermined.
He's predetermined that he'sgoing to give people the
opportunity to change aroundtheir life, to believe in his
son, to be able to have thatforgiveness that comes through
that, and that's where I thinkthat that predestination comes
from.
The other stuff, I don't knowthat I have any answers for I
probably have more questionsthan I have answers.
Like you know, Pierre and I arerelated somehow, or I have a
(10:38):
really simple mind like thatWell, I mean, I think so where I
was going with the appointedtime.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I believe it goes back to Acts, which also, you
know, kind of starts the churchwith Paul and it kind of talks
about you know how one man, youknow he made it on nations to
inhabit the whole earth and hemarked out their appointed times
.
Acts 17, verse 26, there, andthe reason that's really come to
me here recently.
So like the world's kind ofcrazy right now.
(11:07):
I think we can all agree thatthe world's kind of gone mad and
you often hear like I'mconcerned about my kids or I
hate that my kids have to growup in this world.
And then I go to Acts 17, 26,and it says that he, you know,
got marked their appointed timesin history and it kind of
(11:30):
brings you comfort because to methat's saying that he's placed
our kids in this moment for areason as mad as we think the
world is, as crazy as we thinkthe world is, our kids have been
marked for this time.
This is their time to shine.
I've just seen differentconcerts and stuff.
(11:51):
Like the youth, they have somuch energy and so much passion
for God right now that I had nopart of honestly growing up.
It kind of brings me hope.
Man, again, you think about themadness and the chaos.
Yeah, you can have that fearlike, oh I hate that they have
to live in this time we shouldhave done a better job.
Or you can also look at it thatthey were appointed for this
(12:11):
time and you know God is gettingready to raise up a monster
himself.
And you think about and I knowthis is a touchy subject as well
you think about some of thetransgender type of situations
that also take place right now.
Like I don't know the ins andouts of that and the reasons
(12:32):
that people do it.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I'm sure they have their own reasons, but if You're
saying ins and outs and talkingtransgenderism, that's going a
little bit too far into thebiological conversation, I think
, for this podcast.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Potentially, but I'm just thinking like, so it's a
joke, I was trying to be funny.
I was trying to but on the flipside, you wonder like is satan
satan who I don't think we giveenough credit to at times?
Is he like trying to convincesome of these young people to go
to the other side because heknows what God's appointed them
(13:11):
for?
You ever thought about that?
There's a lot of confusionright now.
Again, I'm not on that side ofthe coin so I don't know what's
taking place over there, butwhen you think about the world
and where it's at, our kidsbeing appointed for this time, I
(13:32):
mean it'd be really smart ofSatan to try to convince someone
that has a predetermineddestiny that they're not who God
made them to be.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yes, I completely agree, and I often wonder, too,
how Satan uses those vessels,whatever vessels they are that
he uses.
Right, because he hasinstruments, just like God would
have instruments.
You know, we have people thatcome into our lives and we're,
like man, so glad I saw them,I'm so glad I met them, they
turned my life around.
You know, man, so glad I sawthem, I was so glad I met them.
They turned my life around.
You know, a lot of times we'llhave those people in our life.
(14:06):
And here's the thing, thoughSatan has similar tools, I
believe, in his toolbox, and sowhat tools is he using to be
able to get to, maybe, ourchildren ourselves?
Whoever it is, what tools doeshe have?
And here's some things I'vefound out over the years of
(14:31):
looking into weird things.
Right, I think that sometimesthe tools that he uses are man's
knowledge, money, wisdom andpower.
All right, and, and thosepeople I can pinpoint some of
those people that have thoseinstruments or those tools, or
(14:52):
those avenues, they're in thegovernment, and and I know I'm
not, I'm not trying to go in theweird West way or anything like
that, but um, it just recently,if I'm not mistaken, it was, uh
, a ice cube or ice tea, one ofthe ices, I don't know which one
one of the ices he he was, ifI'm not mistaken.
(15:19):
He talked about about how thegovernment was using rap music
in the 80s as an agent ofkeeping the black population
down by having the rap music andlisten I I sound like an old
man talking about that stuff.
I could tell you so many lyricsI used to listen to that stuff,
(15:40):
the n, all those I used tolisten to that stuff.
Right, so I know what he wastalking about, that they used it
to to perpetrate if I'm sayingthat the ears and the minds of a
generation, to actually getthem to believe that that is how
you are to act and and by doingthat it caused it was a cause
(16:10):
and effect thing.
Once it becomes popular, theneverybody wants to continue to
say it and then you think aboutchanting and stuff.
That's what we do wheneverwe're singing music.
We're chanting those lyrics,we're bringing power into those
words and next thing, you know,it's all popularized.
Everybody believes that's whatyou're doing.
Then we had the scene of MTV.
Come on, you know, come ontothe scene.
(16:32):
And so now we're giving visualeffects as well as sound effects
.
Sound effects like audio, audio.
We're giving audio and visualto this and a lot of times those
videos would recreate something, not only if you're talking
about gangstrap, where themurder and, uh, drugs and, and
(16:55):
then there's the sex that goesalong with that and you know all
the violence and everything.
But it was the same thing backin the hippie movement.
You think about.
You guys got these picturesright of hippies in your head,
right and Woodstock.
Let me give you Woodstock.
If I say Woodstock, you seethese flower power, kids and
(17:17):
everything right, and they allleft from home, all across the
world or I don't know if a worldbut the United States and they
all flock there.
The last time I checked, drugswere pretty expensive, right,
and my best memory of whathippies looked like they looked
homeless.
Where did all the money comefrom?
(17:39):
How did they afford all thedrugs that were there?
Where did they get that stuff?
And there's several books thatare out there that would say
well, they got it because thegovernment just handed it out to
them and it was an offshoot ofthe government.
If people wanted to protest theVietnam War, the only ones that
did that were the dirty hippies.
(18:01):
You must be a hippie, and sonow the hippies have the moniker
of being a bad person or anunknowledgeable person, a poor
person, and so they wanted tocreate that same kind of
environment during that hippiestage of the world or of our
United States history, as theydid in the 80s with rap music
(18:21):
and creating that kind ofculture.
They were just creatingcultures.
I say that and I'm just sayingthat if we're going to say Satan
uses people possibly toinfluence a generation, pierre,
I know that that's what they didaccording to some historians,
to some historians in theWoodstock era.
(18:43):
I know that's what they didaccording to some historians in
the 80s.
It doesn't put it beyond me tothink that they're doing the
same thing now with thetransgender movement.
And I will just point directlyto the White House and say look
at all the people that have beenin the White House as part of
(19:06):
different administrations,putting in charge of different
administrations, and there'sbeen cross-dressers, transgender
individuals in high politicalpositions.
It just makes me say, well,maybe they're doing that with
that as well, pierre, and youand I haven't talked about that
(19:26):
much, so I'm glad you brought itup.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
We haven't talked about it really at all.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Not to that extent.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Which is fitting because we're discussing
Ephesians right.
So you have your Bible, youhave your chips in front of you,
wes.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I do?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I got my bag of chips right here.
So Ephesians 6, chapter 6,verse 12.
What version of the Bible areyou reading out of?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
I read out of the New American Standard Version sir.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And so what does that verse say in your New American
Standard Version?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but
against the rulers, against thepowers, against the world
forces of its darkness, againstthe spiritual forces of
wickedness in all heavenlyplaces, in the heavenly places.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And what I find interesting.
So there's so many differenttranslations.
Do you have?
Can you pull one up?
Yeah, ephesians 6.12, and Idon't know what version you'll
have.
I can make one up.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I can make up a version we talk about.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
West.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Vernacular.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Here's the NIV.
What's the NIV say?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but
against the rulers, against theauthorities, against the powers
of this dark world and againstthe spiritual forces of evil in
the heavenly realms.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So many of these translate to the powers of the
dark world.
When you look at a lot of thesetranslations or the world
forces, are you familiar withthe Geneva Bible?
Yeah, so if you're not, theGeneva Bible was basically
before the King James Version.
(21:10):
And when you look at thetranslation of the Geneva Bible,
it says worldly governors there, which is very interesting, not
powers of dark forces, not theworld dark.
It says worldly governors,which I think is pretty cut and
(21:30):
dry.
I found it actually prettyinteresting that once the king's
version came out, that thatpart was kind of translated a
little bit, to not mention thestraight facts that it said
worldly governors as a part ofthat there.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Do you remember, michelle, what Nebuchadnezzar's
downfall was?
Do you remember what he waskind of claiming as he stood
upon his tower?
Nope, nebuchadnezzar in the OldTestament, I think in the book
of Daniel, is where it is.
He's basically up there andhe's just saying look at what I
have made, I am God, I am God.
(22:09):
And then God said no, you'renot.
And turned him into basically awild beast I think he lost his
mind, kind of a thing, andrunning out there in the woods
and everything, finally repentedand came back to his senses and
God restored him.
But it's just an example of aworld leader, pierre, even in a
(22:31):
biblical time, who thought hewas God and God had to humble
him right.
And I just think that if youhave that, that you, if you have
that much power, if you havethat much money, you have that
much influence over being ableto do things, maybe you do want
to try to create your ownenvironment.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I'm sure it comes to that.
I've never had that, that powerto know, and I probably never
want it.
And it was talked about before.
Like I find it interesting thatmost folks that are rich and
famous will tell you that theydon't wish that on anyone, and
us that aren't rich and famoususually would scoff or laugh at
that, like, yeah, I'm sure allthat money is so awful to have,
(23:12):
but when you look at some of thethings that you see within,
know, within, like the celebritycommunity so I'll turn to you
bag, I know you're in realitytelevision and all that type of
stuff so what, uh, what do youoften see, like which, within
the celebrity culture?
Like what are the things thatyou you kind of see come about
(23:32):
celebrities and what they do andhow they kind of live their
life?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
I mean like in the public eye, it's in general.
Yeah, like typically it's inthe public eye.
Typically there's a lot ofalcohol involved.
I mean I think that you seethat they don't have any privacy
at all.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, I don't know what you're looking for here,
like when you look at that, thatculture.
So you look at jenniferanderson, brad pitt who's the
next person that comes to mindafter brad pitt?
Jennifer anderson who you thinkof?
Anybody?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
yep, but I can't think of her name, so angelina
jolie.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Thank you, jolie yeah , but where I'm getting at it so
like their, their culture, alot of it they're just divorcing
they're divorcing, they'reswitching partners and they're
just, they're just kind ofrunning wild, and even those
that are married.
So I've always been a a big fanof, like, justin timberlake's
music growing up.
(24:36):
Uh, what, even him, like he'sgotten in in trouble and you
know messing around on his wife,you know, who's also an actress
, with jessica bill and um wes.
I know you've you kind of know.
You know something you want totalk about was with the man
formerly known as puff daddy,who goes by diddy, and you know
he's had like jennifer lopez,you know, at one point, but now
(24:58):
you know he's in the news forother reasons.
What are your thoughts on Diddy?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Look, you're getting into this kind of conversation
here, pierre.
This is going to make my pastorgive me a phone call, I think
in a little while.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
These are the folks that some people look up to,
some people want to be like.
He had a show that folks weretrying out to try to be a part
of his making the band and youknow they're part of, they're
part of this whole famous and Iknow they're not our politicians
, but they still have a lot ofpower and a lot of pull on the
public eye well, and and, andthe thought is by some people
(25:37):
that I know is that this poweris given to an individual like
Sean Combs.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Okay, I can't.
It's hard for me to say PuffDaddy.
I can't refer to somebody knownas Puffy.
I've never had a friend namedPuffy or P Diddy, you know hey.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
P.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Diddy, so I'd probably call him Mr Combs.
But Sean Combs is given thatkind of power to be able to get
those kind of details and putpeople in compromising positions
, to be able to have the actionsfilmed so that blackmail could
be used against them.
So that blackmail could be usedagainst them and you could say,
(26:18):
well, wes, that is crazy talk.
Man, that is crazy talk.
Yeah, it is.
But maybe where there's a lotof smoke, there's fire, right,
and there was that.
It really reminded me of thewhole Epstein Island thing.
I mean, it's the same exactplay, it's the same exact script
.
You could say but you know, wes, that just, and listen, these
(26:42):
are the conversations that go onin my head that keep me up at
night, where I'm saying Wes, tomyself all right, wes, that
doesn't really happen in reallife.
And then honestly and this is,you can just Google this and it
depends on how much you trustGoogle, ok, how much you?
trust Google Because it's likewell, wes, the government, would
(27:03):
never do anything like that.
They would never give a manthat kind of power to be able to
get that kind of dirt onsomebody to make them do
something, because now they gotthe dirt on them, right?
So you think about all thedifferent people that we talked
about that are in the news, likeyou're saying, that are in
entertainment business andeverything.
Well, if you have dirt onsomebody, you can make them do
(27:27):
something that maybe theywouldn't necessarily want to do.
You can make them say somethingthat they wouldn't necessarily
want to say.
Now, here's the deal with that.
You and I don't think that way,right?
That's not how we get resultsin life.
I'm kind to people.
I feel bad if I try to.
You know, strong-arm somebodyinto doing something right.
(27:48):
I just can't.
That doesn't cross my mindreally.
You know what I mean.
Like, it's just not how Ioperate, because I want to love
my neighbors myself, as Jesushas taught me.
I want to.
That's my goal in life.
My goal in life is to notstrong-arm somebody into getting
them to do what I want them todo.
You can hold on, hold on.
(28:09):
You can Google this phrase, andI hate to.
I don't like to say this phraseout loud.
I don't know where mynine-year-old is.
You can Google the phraseOperation Midnight Climax.
Okay, I know all the wordsthere don't sound good to get.
I'm not Googling that.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Googling that.
When I read about thatoperation, that's when the light
bulb went off for me thatpeople that have power don't
(28:50):
think the way I do.
They were using that as anexperiment, operation Midnight
Clonics as an experiment.
What they did and this is goingto sound crazy they had
successful businessmen in SanFrancisco.
They got an apartment buildingin San Francisco when I say they
(29:10):
, it was either the FBI, cia,government, the powers that be
Can we just say that Powers thatbe, since we're in the book of
Ephesians and they enticed thewell-to-do businessmen in that
area with prostitutes and theylured them.
(29:30):
I say lured them.
You know a woman and a man, youknow how the luring goes, a man
, you know how the luring goes.
And then when they got themback into the hotel rooms LSD
and alcohol and two-way mirrors,and they were experimenting to
(29:53):
get dirt on these guys and theywould do it a couple of times
and once they had the dirt onthese guys, they would tell the
men that they had that dirt andthey essentially were treating
them like lab rats because theywanted to see what their
reactions would be.
And there were men jumping outof windows that would, you know,
didn't know how to react otherthan taking their own life.
I don't know what other men did.
(30:16):
It didn't give every detail ofevery man, so that's the one
that went off in my head of like, okay, there may be people who
don't think the same way as I do, right, there may be people who
were taught differently than Iwas.
There may be people who do.
And then I think back, though,also like these are Old
(30:38):
Testament stories too, like thisyou know, as you go throughout
time, there's just some of thesame things that were talked
about in the Old Testament aswell, where men are just messing
up and messing with women andjust doing some wrong things.
And so I think back to all that.
I think these people all havepower, the power is given to
(30:58):
them, and then they can use itfor their own gain.
That's what I think.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, I think that's always been the case.
We talked earlier.
History repeats itself oftenand I think that's still the
case today.
Once you have that type ofpower and authority, I think
folks have a fear of losing it.
I think we even see it in ourgovernment, like I know,
(31:27):
michelle and I often talk Like Icould care less about either
one of our presidentialcandidates right now, if I'm
being honest, and it's becauseour country is so divided, yep,
and I.
I think it's intentional,because you have one party that
wants majority of the power andto be able to call the shots and
(31:48):
have control and you have theother party doing the same and
the candidates really have justbecome puppets, if you ask me.
And it it's basically just afight for party over party and
each one tries to manipulate thepublic into taking their side
and do awful things in order topoint their finger at the other
(32:08):
side, when you really didn't seethat even a few years ago.
You can even look back atwhatever you want to say about
Clinton, bush, obama, all thesethings, they still are close.
You can still say they're evenfriends.
You see them at certain events.
They're sitting at the table,they're laughing.
(32:28):
I think they all still had thegreater good in mind of the
country.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Just debating the topics, correct.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
I don't think that's the case any longer.
I think it's all about wantingto be right, wanting to be in
control, and that's why socialmedia and all the algorithms are
just pulling people so farapart, because if you're a Trump
supporter, you're crazy, and ifyou're on the other side,
you're crazy if you're asupporter of the Democrats in
(33:01):
Kamala.
So you can't win because nomatter what side of the coin you
are, on it looks like you'recrazy based off what your
beliefs are.
And I feel like that's theintention.
And I go back to this comic andI think I talked about the comic
before where a king's on hiscastle and he has all the public
eye out there with fire andpitchforks.
(33:22):
He's like what are we going todo?
And the answer was you just gotto convince those with the fire
that the people with thepitchforks are trying to take
away their fire, and that'sthat's basically what it comes
down to today.
He, he got guns, for example,gun violence.
You talk about that and theschool shootings and all the
things that happen, but versussomething happening, the
(33:44):
question is just kind of turnedto, where you just try to make
those with guns think that thosewithout them are trying to take
their guns away.
All of a sudden, that causeschaos, and you're still in power
, because the attention's nowturned away from you.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
It's politicized.
If that's a word, hey, I thinkI might've made up my own word
there.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Very good, I'm proud of you.
Michelle, michelle, the?
Um.
We're talking a lot aboutpeople who have a lot of power,
but I think it's our uh friend,maybe a listener to the, to the
podcast.
Who's the?
Who's the rapper?
(34:24):
That Christian rapper that yousaid your daughter really likes
Pierre.
What's his name?
Kb, kb.
I think it's KB who says howdoes it stay on top?
He becomes a servant of all iswhat he says, because when
you're a servant of all, youhave nowhere left to fall.
I'm surprised.
I remembered that, to be honestwith you, in Ephesians, chapter
(34:47):
3, verse 8, this is what Paulsays, and this let me preface
this this is why all the stuffthat we're talking about now and
all the stuff that's gonethrough my head, the things I
said, keep me up at night.
The things I've talked about inthis episode, the things you
brought up here, the things youbrought up Michelle, this is
what those topics right thereI'm just going to be blunt and
(35:10):
honest it's what makes mebelieve in the Bible more.
Believe in the Bible more,because the Bible is so
contradictory in premise to allthose things, and I know I said
that those things were in theBible.
Some of those things were inthe Bible in the Old Testament.
(35:36):
But the way God talks aboutlove, the way the New Testament
is set up around loving eachother, serving each other, it's
so contradictory to all thosethings that we're talking about
from the people who have powernow.
In Ephesians, chapter 3, verse 8, paul says To me the very least
(36:00):
of all saints.
This grace was given to preachto the Gentiles the unfathomable
riches of Christ.
He's in prison when he'swriting this Prison and he's
including himself in with saintsyou know, which is cool and
he's talking about everybody whobelieves in Christ is a saint,
but he says the very least ofthem.
I'm not the top of the ladder,oh, no, no, no.
I'm not the top of the ladder,oh, no, no, no, I am the very
(36:21):
lowest of the ladder.
You know, and that is a qualityto have in our lives about
being a servant.
And my little notes on this wasto think about, like where you
go to church, what are some ofthe qualifications or qualities
(36:43):
of a good church?
Well, one of the things isbuilt on the apostles' teaching
right, biblical teaching.
And then in my little noteshere, this was a quality of the
guy or guys whoever is up incharge of the church.
Do they raise themselves aboveeveryone else?
(37:06):
Do they have the bravado ofbeing, whatever you know, high
and mighty?
Do they live in a $8 million,$10 million, $20 million mansion
?
Or do they treat themselves andothers like they are, the
servants like Paul is talkingabout here?
I don't know what you thinkabout that, michelle.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
I mean, I think that it's, it is a true marker of
what's internal, like we, ifyou're a pastor, like you said,
lives in that million dollarhouse, then maybe what's on the
inside is, you know, kind ofbeing portrayed on the outside
(37:54):
and you get to see that and, um,if they're acting and bigger
than life, then maybe that'swhat they believe of themselves
on the inside and are they trulya servant.
And so, you know, I, I think Ihave always truly believed that
if you are something, you don'thave to tell a soul, it's going
(38:17):
to show.
But if you have to tellsomebody, you're something.
So if you are something, youdon't have to tell a soul, it's
going to show.
But if you have to tellsomebody, you're something.
So if you have to tell somebodythat you're a Christian, if you
have to tell somebody you're agood person.
If you have to tell somebodyyou're a great athlete, whatever
it might be, if you have totell somebody, you're trying to
convince them and probablyyourself, that you are, because
you may not be, but if you are,the proof is in the pudding and
(38:37):
it's going to show for itself.
So I think the same thing goesfor the pastors or for those
people who are in, you know, thespotlight, or in the leaders of
the world, or whatever you wantto say.
I think the proof is in thepudding If you are something,
it's going to show for itself.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
And Pierre, you had mentioned just about like the
two different sides ofeverything it feels like now and
how it's pitted against eachother and it's no longer working
for the common good.
And once again the Biblebecomes more reliable to me
because it goes contrary tothose things of the flesh that
we had talked about fromEphesians there.
But we know that, the things ofthe flesh that we had talked
(39:20):
about from Ephesians there.
But we know that the things ofthe flesh just aren't good for
us, right?
I mean, it doesn't, man?
I love candy corn.
It's that time of year y'allthis year, I you have peanuts.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
You have peanuts.
It tastes like a payday.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
No, no, no, no, you're ruining candy corn I used
to think the candy cornpumpkins.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
That's the only way I like it, the candy corn
pumpkins.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Oh, buddy, they're too sweet, exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
That's kind of the point is that there are things
of the flesh that teach us thattoo much of it is not good for
us, right?
And too many little marshmallowpumpkins are just are not very
good for my belly, even thoughit says like there's 12 servings
, 14, 16 servings in a bag,depending on the size of the bag
(40:05):
.
I will put a challenge to thatevery single time I open the bag
.
There's no way that that'ssupposed to be real.
But Pierre, ephesians 1, is itEphesians 1, pierre?
No, it's Ephesians 2, pierre.
It's Ephesians, chapter 2.
It says that I guess I will beright there in verse 19,.
(40:29):
My friend, is that okay withyou?
Yeah, go for it.
You are no longer strangers andaliens, but you are fellow
citizens with the saints and areof God's household, having been
built upon the foundation ofthe apostle and the prophets,
christ Jesus himself being thecornerstone, from whom the whole
building being fitted togetheris growing into a holy temple in
(40:53):
the Lord in whom you are beingbuilt together in a dwelling God
in the spirit.
Temple in the Lord in whom youare being built together in a
dwelling God in the Spirit.
Now we had all those differentbackgrounds that we talked about
from Ephesians before and howit was a place that had a lot of
different people coming in andout of there and how that was
perfect for God.
(41:14):
And so Paul is talking aboutall those different people being
in from all those differentplaces, having all those
different habits, having allthose different traditions.
But he said no, no, you guysare all being built together as
one thing here, one temple, andup.
A couple of other verses there.
We'll just go to verse 16.
It says that he might reconcilethem both into one body to God
(41:34):
through the cross, that by it,having put it to death the
enmity, put it to death theenmity, putting to death hatred,
putting to death fighting, andall of these things just start
becoming one.
And so there's unity in theBible, or at least there should
be unity in the Bible, andsometimes people use that
against others as well.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
They do and I think it's really interesting.
So we're we're going back tothese times.
So when you, when you think ofthe church today, what do you?
What do you think of?
When someone says I'm going tochurch, where do you think
they're going?
A building, a building.
When you look back here, whenyou're, when you're talking
(42:16):
about the church, and you know,no, but they they did.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
They did get together , but he wasn't talking about a
building.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
He wasn't they were.
They were just gatheringwherever they could gather.
Sometimes it was in homes,sometimes it was just out in the
open, but it was just agathering of, of god's people.
That was.
That was the church.
It wasn't.
It wasn't a building like it isnow, or that's what people kind
of put it under.
And so I think we got to keepthat in mind, like, when we talk
(42:52):
about the church, it was neverabout the building, it was about
God's people and comingtogether in community, serving
each other, serving others, andI just hope people don't get
away from that, and I just hopepeople don't get away from that.
You know, oftentimes you hearabout the church.
Hurt that kind of takes placein churches and it's usually
(43:14):
it's not the building that hurtsyou, it's the people.
And so we just got to be betterat being the church ourselves,
and our bodies are templestechnically.
We're supposed to, you know,make room for the Holy Spirit,
make room for God to enter us,and that's the temple.
Our bodies are templestechnically.
We're supposed to, you know,make room for the, the holy
spirit, make room for god toenter us, and that's the temple.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
our bodies are temples, we are the church, and
I think we just gotta I don'tknow kind of find a way to, to
do a better of of being that,that temple for god well, I
think it is easier when you goto church, though, to to be
moved and to be filled, because,like, for instance, when COVID
(43:53):
was around and we're trying todo church online, I can tell you
I personally did not get the.
The message could be just asgood, but there's a different
feeling when I'm in the buildingand in person than via a screen
or whatnot.
Like, it's just a differentfeeling for me, and I think
(44:14):
that's probably the same formost people.
But so I don't think I don'tthink you're necessarily saying
like, don't go to church.
You're just saying make surethat you keep in mind that, like
pastor, our pastor always saysbe the church.
Like when you leave thatbuilding, you do.
You have to take it uponyourself to continue to be the
(44:35):
church to others and to in yourhomes and you know your
workplaces and to others in thecommunity and you don't have to
go to that building right to be.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
I mean, yeah, we're not on the screen, but if you're
just gathering together, likeeven for our front of our life
groups, our life groups, like wehave so many good discussions
and so uplifting, and you know,michelle and I, you know, lead
one and there's times where wedidn't want to go, like we're
leaders and we're like we don'twant to do this tonight, but we
show up and maybe only one ortwo other people show up and
(45:05):
it's like, okay, are we wastingour time here?
But once we start to dive inand just have discussions, like
some of our best evenings, youknow we left.
You know were nights.
We didn't want to show up inthe first place, you know, but
we showed up, god showed up withus and we had good discussions,
good conversations.
We loved on each other, youknow, and that was out the
(45:27):
pastor.
The pastor wasn't there and infact our pastor often says that
the reason for life groups is sowe can be the pastor.
You know, the church is so bigwhen you think about, you know,
sunday mornings and all thepeople in there, there's no way
that the pastor themselves canreach all those people.
The reason for these smallgroups and live groups is so
(45:49):
others can pastor to each otherand you know open up to about,
you know just life and you knowwhat struggles are and you know
sharing and similarities andjust be able to be empathetic
with each other andcompassionate throughout life.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
I think one of the reasons why some are more
empathetic than others maybe isbecause they feel the
forgiveness of God, maybe alittle bit stronger because
they've strayed away, or maybethey're just a little bit better
at vocalizing it or verbalizingit.
And Paul says in chapter 2, youwere dead in your sins and your
trespasses, which you formerlywalked according to the course
(46:27):
of this world, according to theprince of the power of the air,
of the spirit that is nowworking in the sons of
disobedience, among whom themtoo, we all were formerly lived
in the lust of our flesh,indulging in the desires of the
flesh and of the mind, and wereby nature children of wrath,
even as all the rest, but Godbeing rich in his mercy because
(46:49):
of his great love in which heloved us.
Even when we See that Jesus, inorder that in the ages to come
he might show the surpassingriches of his grace in the
kindness toward us in ChristJesus, see that he's talking
(47:13):
about our podcast there, becausein the ages to come our podcast
will still be out there andwe'll still be showing people
the kindness of Christ.
That's what we'll be doing, forby grace you have been saved.
This is Ephesians, chapter two,verse eight, for by grace you
have been saved through faith,and it's not of yourselves, it
is the gift of God, not as aresult of anything you've done,
(47:34):
not works that no one can boast.
We are His workmanship, createdin Christ Jesus for good works
which God prepared beforehandthat we should walk in them.
God back to the wholepredestinational thing.
God prepared these works for usto do and it's good works, not
(47:58):
P Diddy works, not J Lowellworks, not any of those kind of
works.
God prepared his own work forus to do and we are his tools
that he uses to get his job done.
And it is up to us to do that,to preserve the peace of God.
That brings us to Ephesians.
(48:20):
I gotta read Ephesians 4.
I'm on a roll.
I'm on a roll.
There is one body, one spirit,just as also you were called in
one hope of your calling.
One Lord, one faith, onebaptism, one God and Father of
all who are over, all andthrough, all and in all.
We are to preserve that onenessfor God, because that's when
(48:46):
big things can happen.
Oneness for God, because that'swhen big things can happen.
And it's up to all of us to getto work to do the things that
he's called us to do, which he'sprepared beforehand, and
there's going to be weird littlesynchronicities that if you
don't take the time in life toopen up your eyes and allow Him
to show you what those littlesynchronicities are, you might
(49:07):
miss them right, and maybe theperson sitting next to you in
the cubicle, maybe the personstanding in front of you at the
line.
It just may be so, but juststart a conversation and you
never know what littlesynchronicities God has in store
for you that day.
That's the exciting ride and,pierre and Michelle, I am glad I
am on the ride with y'all.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
We're glad too, Wes.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
And I think that oftentimes we chalk those little
synchronicities up tocoincidence, like we said before
, and fail to see the beauty ofGod, like how he brings people
together and make you have thataha moment and I think we had
one of those today Like it waslike oh see how that works.
We didn't know that all theseyears.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
It definitely was an aha moment, Pierre.
If people want to complainabout this episode, where would
they do?
Speaker 2 (49:59):
that, yeah, so you're going to go to at loafing it on
Twitter.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
You're going to start with me.
You're coming in hot on Twitter.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
You're going to start with me.
You're coming in hot.
You can email us atfindyfaithloseysleep at gmailcom
.
We are on Twitter, slash x atfindingfaithpod.
If you listen on Apple Podcasts, there's an option to send a
text message as well.
You can send us over a voicemessage and again address that
to Wes as well.
Leave your reviews, if you canit, over a voice message and
(50:28):
again address that to Wes aswell.
And leave your reviews if youcan.
You know it helps the algorithm.
We don't need it for anything,but it helps to get our show out
there to others.
So, if you can leave us areview, slap some stars on there
, preferably the you know, thefive stars and a good review.
But you know, if you don't likewhat we're saying, that's okay
too.
We love you anyways.
But yeah, those are ways youcan reach out to us and thank
(50:49):
you for all the listeners thathave been listening.
Continue listening through thehighs, through the lows, through
the breaks, when we're not ableto get behind the microphone.
We truly appreciate it and hopethat you know we're bringing
something into your earbuds oryour car or wherever you're
listening from each day.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Absolutely, definitely.
We do appreciate all thosethings and any kind words it's
always good to hear from you andany kind of topics you want us
to talk about, we'll be happy totackle those things.
And if you do follow me over onTwitter, if you go over to my
Twitter handle, I am sure youwill find a lot of those
conversations I have with myselfon Twitter.
If you just go in the littlesearch bar it'll.
It'll lead you to links.
I am sure of that, becausesometimes that was the only you
(51:26):
know.
You know it felt, it really feltlike you protect people
sometimes that don't know thatkind of information, because I
do think that people try to takeadvantage of people, and they
do.
I've seen them do it over andover and over again and I just I
want to protect people, man,because I love people.
I don't want to see people gethurt.
(51:47):
I don't want to see them fallinto those same patterns of
self-destruction that I've seenso many people fall into during
my days while I've been here onthis earth.
Life's too short to be ablejust to go around doing all
those things and to not live forother people.
It's just way too short.
But we do appreciate everybodyand thank you so much for
listening and continue to prayfor us, and we'll continue to
(52:09):
pray for you.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Hey, wes, before you end that I know you ended it
already, but I think we would beremiss if we don't say that,
you know, acknowledge that we'repraying for everyone who has
been affected by the previoushurricane and by this hurricane
coming through now.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Definitely, and that is fresh on my mind.
It's one of those things that Ilook at and keep updated.
I can't believe the events thathappened in some of those areas
of Tennessee and justunbelievable footage that we see
, and so thankful for the peoplewho are pressing through to any
kind of obstructions, that theyhave to be able to tend to the
(52:48):
needs of other people.
And, Father, right now I justwant to lift those people up.
I want to lift up all theworkers that are there.
So, Lord, we live in thisfallen world and there are going
to be things that happen, andwe are so thankful that you have
given us the good news thatthis world is not the last of it
all, that there is an eternalhome for us where there's no
(53:08):
pain, no suffering, no sorrow,no tears.
Father, what a blessing it isto have that knowledge so that
we don't have our hopes justbuilt into the things that can
be destroyed here on this earth.
Thank you so much for the lovethat you've shown to all of us
and I ask that you'll continueto do so.
Thank you so much for beingpatient with me and with others
and allowing me to have theopportunity to find that fork in
(53:30):
the road that you put there infront of me, to be able to
listen to the good news that wasshared with me and to be able
to put my old self away, eventhough it's been a slow, slow
progress.
Father, I thank you so much forthat opportunity and we thank
you for being patient with us.
I ask that you'll continue tobe patient with others as they
come to know you and have yoursalvation.
Father, we ask that you'llcontinue to use us all of us who
(53:53):
are listening to be able to beyour workers, Give us
opportunities to be able toshare your gospel and also give
us the boldness and theconfidence to do so, never being
ashamed of who we are or whatyou have made us into, Father,
because of how much you've lovedus.
Thank you for loving us beforewe ever loved you.
We pray all this in Jesus'sname, Amen.
Amen.
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