March 8, 2025 • 50 mins
Change is an inevitable part of life, though many of us resist it because it takes away our feeling of control and disrupts our comfortable routines.
• Exploring why humans naturally resist change and prefer established patterns
• Understanding the psychological change arc when confronting new situations
• Recognizing that significant growth rarely happens within our comfort zones
• How an unwanted job change created divine appointments to help troubled marriages
• Using the book "Who Moved My Cheese" as a framework for adapting positively
• Learning from Paul's candid struggles with change in Romans 7
• Finding comfort in "no condemnation" despite our imperfect responses to change
• Remembering that while God never changes, He often calls us to transform
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Email: findingfaith.losingsleep@gmail.com
Twitter: @FindingFaithPod
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's time to wake up and pray up here.
On the Finding Faith and LosingSleep podcast.
I'm Wes Eastman, one of yourhosts at Loafin' it over on
Twitter.
If Twitter is still such athing anymore, it might be X or
whatever it is, and I have withme all the way from up north in
Yankee land.
It is Pierre and Michelle.
How are you two doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
How are you Doing?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
well Not really Yankee land.
It is, pierre and Michelle.
How are you two doing today?
Doing well.
How are you Doing well?
Not really Yankee land, likewe're not in New York, which is
where I think Yankee is, but Iget where you're going.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah, we are.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I want to go back to, like the Civil War days.
Sure.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
We are it's Confederate, it's Confederacy
down here.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I mean that's fair given some things that are
taking place in the country, butwe won't go there.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, we might have to go there at some point.
Hey, I was thinking about this,like I gave out my Twitter
handle at lowfimp.
Here is at PeeWee31 over onTwitter.
Michelle is at GoPackGo911.
Is that 411?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
411, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
At GoPackGo411.
I don't know what the Twitterhandle is.
Pierre, that's your job.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
At FindingFaithPod is the Twitter slash X, x as well.
You got to toss an X.
It's been X for a little bitnow, so Twitter slash X.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
My favorite is when he says X every time he crosses
his arms in an X Well, kind offorever, you know how it is.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
What do you guys think of Twitter or X nowadays?
I know I still see Pierre onthere every so often.
I know I'm on there every sooften.
I think I get my news fromthere, pierre.
It feels like that's how I reada newspaper now, and this is
something.
By the way, our podcast isabout things that keep you up
late at night.
It involves faith a lot oftimes, or just our walk in life.
The three of us are Christians,not theologians.
(01:41):
I guess we are kind oftheologians, but very amateurish
, is that right?
I mean, I could say we haven'tbeen to college to get our
theological degrees, but we aretheologians.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Everybody who talks about Christianity or religion
is a theologian.
Am I right?
I don't know, that's adangerous term.
I don't want to give the wrongperception to those listening
and tuning in.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
We just have opinions .
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, okay, opinions, opinions about stuff, uh, but,
but that is where I get myinformation from, as far as like
newspapers or stuff like thatgoes.
And I I would like to say I usereliable sources, um, and maybe
unreliable sources as well,just to see what's out there.
But what do you guys thinkabout?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
x I mean I, I honestly mostly use it for
sports stuff.
Um, so you know, you and I dolike a dfs pod as well for daily
fantasy sports and like most ofthe news breaks first on there.
So that's that's why I mostlyuse it is to get news on like
lineups and things that arecoming out.
I don't actually dive into likereal world news outside of
(02:46):
sports.
Um, a lot of ads, it feels likethese days, yeah, um, a lot of
bots as well.
Um, which is kind of you know,shifted where you just get like
folks liking or replying thatthat don't seem to be real
people.
Um, that's just my experiencewith it.
Michelle, do you really diveinto the twitter machines too?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
uh, nope, I never have.
Really.
Honestly, I'll be on thereevery once in a while, but I'm
still.
You know, as olivia would say,I'm old.
Um, I still use facebook, butmostly I use facebook just as
like my memory, because I likelike the memories that come up.
So, um, I usually just kind ofuse it for that and to post like
(03:28):
new stuff to come up in mymemories next year, the year
after.
So, unfortunately, I don't usesocial media like Instagram,
twitter, like all of that reallyvery much at all how can people
get a hold of you on myspace,michelle?
Speaker 1 (03:41):
how can they shut?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
up wes.
No, I okay.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So here's my space, my eyes was kind of fire too.
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
My space was kind of I used to like switch.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I used to switch girls in my top 10 just to get
reaction I, that is a hundredpercent true, I guarantee you
we're learning a lot of thingsabout pier tonight.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Um, there was a talk before the podcast about some
things and we're learning a lotabout pier hey, I tell people,
if you knew me, then you believeme now.
I mean that I I never had amyspace thing.
Um, I don't, I don't, I don'tknow about any of that.
So where do you guys get newsfrom or headlines from?
(04:26):
Where do you guys get that?
Because that really is.
I mean, twitter is where I getmy headlines from, besides the
things that are just sent to myphone from some application I
have on there that I don't evenknow that I downloaded, it just
was always on my phone, and soit's like Newsbreak or something
like that and it just tells meheadlines.
But it's really, really builtupon me.
(04:48):
The algorithm has me reallydialed in there, and I'm sure
Twitter does as well.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
We don't.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I'll get it from her parents.
I don't watch these.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
We're half the oblivious.
I thought this show was kind ofabout current events and stuff,
is it not?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
It is, but you catch wind, You're going to hear it,
yeah.
I don't need a news outlet toknow what's going on.
People conversate, whether itbe at church or in our live
groups or again amongst family.
They kind of talk about it andthen from there you can always
just kind of if you'reinterested enough, google to get
a sense of what actuallythey're discussing or talking
(05:28):
about.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, if I knew everything that was going on,
I'd never sleep, I'm sure, likeI sleep very little these days
anyway, so that would probablymake it worse.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I think I have this right and you guys can fact
check me.
You know how we are on thisshow.
You can always just fact checkme and see if I'm telling the
truth on something or not.
But I believe MySpace the dayMySpace ended was the next day
Facebook started.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh, I don't doubt that.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I don't think that's true.
I do think it's true and thatjust goes into.
Like the CIA or the FBI weredoing both of them at some point
, you know, just to be able toget more people on to a
different platform, because theyalready had everybody's
information on MySpace.
It was kind of coming dead, andso they had to do a different
(06:15):
one and everybody just rolledinto that one.
You know, it was all just.
It's all about just gettinginformation, is what it's about.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I do remember rolling over and you know, what's funny
is like I don't know.
A couple of months ago Iactually logged into my MySpace
and, lo and behold, it was stillthere.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I know that's not true because I had both and it
was in college.
So when Facebook first started,I want to say it was in 2004,.
Because I would have been Iwould have been a junior or
senior when Facebook started andit was only for college
students.
You had to be in a universityto even have it and MySpace was
(06:54):
still going on.
So maybe when they went publicand it was more for the general
public versus students, thatmight have been the case, but
not the initial launch, becauseFacebook was students, only for
students.
That might have been the case,but not the initial launch,
because facebook was studentsonly and I believe it initially
started at harvard.
Um was the first, I think,because I believe if you watch
the movie uh, I can't rememberwhat it's called there's a movie
about it and I think harvardwas the first university and
(07:16):
then it kind of branched out toother universities before it
actually went public, to thosethat weren't associated with the
university.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I still have an AOL email address.
No, I'm just kidding about that.
As we talk about, you know,myspace, facebook and all that,
it leads us into our discussionhere this evening, or our topic
about change.
We're going to talk aboutchange tonight, and it's you
know, change is one of thosethings that I don't know.
I don't go into them reallyfast and furious a lot of times.
(07:46):
You know, change the definitionof it is to make someone or
something different, to altersomething or to modify it, to
replace something with somethingelse, especially something of
the same kind that is newer orbetter, substitute one thing for
another.
So when I think about change,though it really seems like it's
(08:07):
hard for me to change, what doyou guys think?
Is it hard for you guys tochange too, or is it one of
those things that you're justlike, oh boy, I can't wait to
change Because my wife itdepends?
I really think my wife likes tochange.
I know she likes to change thefurniture around in the house.
She loves to do that Loves, andI would.
I bet you if, if it was up tome, I would have the same chair
(08:30):
in the same place my entire life.
You know that's just where itgoes, but she loves to change
that stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I.
I am not the best with change.
I don't love it.
I.
I understand it's mostlyinevitable, so I give into it.
I.
It's not in my nature really.
I'm, I'm which is weird becauseI don't know.
I I like change for some thingsand not for others is probably
(08:57):
the best answer I and mydaughter are pretty good at
changing clothes.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I can tell you that much um here does the laundry at
the house.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
You can tell that I do my own.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
But yeah, change is difficult.
Uh, when it comes to thingsoutside of material, like,
especially if you're looking atspiritually, I feel, um,
physically, you know, even likethose that like try to like,
exercise, workout it out, it's alot harder to get in shape
versus getting out of shape, andso it's really, it's really,
(09:30):
it's really tough, for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Oh yeah, it is, and that's interesting.
You say you do your own, I domy own laundry as well, I do.
I let I you know the girls cando their laundry or whatever,
but I do my own laundry.
Just it feels like I've lifteda burden, is what it feels like.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I lift the burden off myself, because you don't know
what to put in the dryer or whatto hang up.
It becomes stressful, so I'mjust going to do my own, and
y'all can figure it out foryourself.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I have no idea how khakis like a khaki pair of
pants, a tan pair of pants andred shirts go in the laundry at
the same time or the washingmachine at the same time.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I don't understand that they shouldn't they do,
they do I was told they do, somaybe that's why they got that
little pink I legit do reds,oranges and sometimes dark
purples all together as one load.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
A change.
You may need to change that,michelle, because it's all going
to blend together.
You're going to have tie-dye.
Everything is what you're goingto end up having, but that's
okay, that's all right, that'sokay.
Change this is from a.
What is this from?
I was looking at differentthings about change.
This is from a Harvard BusinessReview all right, harvard
Business Review and one of thethings that makes me sound smart
(10:51):
whenever I say that but I don'tunderstand a word that they say
.
So I don't know about that.
But they say you could kind ofblame our history as a species
for not liking change and whychange is so hard for a lot of
people.
If you think about what it waslike until a couple of past
generations, people stayed inthe same city.
They did the vocation of theirparents.
(11:14):
Everything just kind of stayedthe same.
You even inherited like yourparents' house.
But I don't know that that'snecessarily what's in the plans
for all of us anymore.
It feels like there's morechange on the horizon for
everybody than what it used tobe, and I believe that.
I think that that's true.
I agree.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Just think about how much this life is changing.
So you look back at like olderdays.
For one, like we just talkedabout, you know news outlets.
There was a time where youdidn't have TVs and radios so
you wouldn't know what was goingon.
You look at different ways oflike transportation.
You wouldn't be able to get tocertain places, you know because
(11:54):
you know cars were different.
You know you maybe weren't ableto fly at a certain point in
time.
And even myself I'm goingthrough a major change with my
job and even myself I'm goingthrough a major change with my
job.
So after 17 years I think itwas you know I got let go for
technically no reason.
They were doing some reductions.
I think honestly I made toomuch compared to some of my
(12:19):
peers, but that's a pretty bigchange when you've been
somewhere for 17 years, like I'mlooking back at my resume, like
the latest resume.
I had and man, it was so basic,you know, just out of school and
not much history at all, andjust having to update that and
just looking at the differencesbetween kind of the experience
that I had then and all thethings I've learned over these
(12:41):
17 years with different toolsand different technical skills,
et cetera, it's a it's a bigdifference, it's a big change.
The, the job like market itselfhas changed quite a bit.
Where it's a little tough rightnow, honestly, and it's a lot
of people you know looking for asmall amount of jobs, so you
(13:03):
really got to make sure you'restanding out.
It's weird.
It's really weird.
It's difficult, but you know,you can look at it from a bright
side, which is I'm trying to,as well as sometimes, changes
required in order to moveforward to your next step in
life.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
And I think what we found is that all too often God
kind of has to slam that doorfor you, like, okay, you're
taking too long, this isn't theplan, so I got to kick you out
of here in order for you to getdown the road where you need to
be.
And I think we're all a littlefrom time to time a little
resistant to change.
And things can happen andyou'll be like I don't know why
(13:42):
that had to happen.
And then you know thathindsight will give you that
answer.
Often you'd be like, oh okay, Iget it.
If that wouldn't have happened,then all of these other things
couldn't have happened the waythat they did and I wouldn't be
where I am.
But it's hard to see, andsometimes remember that you're
going to have that hindsight atsome point, but until you get
(14:02):
there, sometimes it can bereally challenging.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
If you need to, Pierre, you could throw my name
around.
That'll help.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I already threw your name around.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I'm sure you do.
I remember one time when wemoved into the house that we're
currently in.
It was a minute and a half awayfrom work.
It was a minute and a half awayfrom work.
Oh, wow, oh, wow, wow.
You know, and, and my, myentire you know route and
everything right here on thisside of town, man, I had it made
(14:34):
you know it.
Just it felt so, everything wasjust right there and it's how I
liked it, it's how I loved itbecause, uh, you guys know my
past and how I moved around fromhouse to house to house, all
those things, whenever I was akid growing up.
So now here I am, condensed inthis one little area.
Everybody knows my name.
I can't walk down the road orgo outside without people saying
hey to me, stuff like that.
(14:55):
It really feels good and Ireally, really like that and
that was cool.
And then work changed.
They shut down the warehouse.
The closest warehouse that Icould do things in was about an
hour away.
In my brain, an hour is what itwas.
So I had to drive an hour there.
(15:16):
I had to load a truck, drive anhour back, run the route, drive
an hour back, unload and drivean hour back home.
You went from a three minutecommute essentially to a four
hour commute.
Wow, I tell you what.
(15:37):
I couldn't get over the hump.
I just couldn't figure it out.
We're going to talk about thathere in a minute.
I'm going to tell you something.
One book that really helped meout is a little cartoon out
there and everything like that.
It's kind of in that same facetof life as that Stephen Covey
and stuff like that.
But this one is Dr SpencerJohnson, who Moved my Cheese is
(15:58):
what it's called.
Oh yeah, that's such a goodbook.
Oh, it's a cool little book,isn't it?
And it's about how differentpeople react different ways.
And you got the two different,separate people.
Both had two groups in thereand one group was like just
sitting down, going wait aminute.
Somebody moved my cheese andthey just waited for the cheese
to come back.
And then you had another groupthat said, oh, somebody moved my
(16:22):
cheese and then theyaggressively went out to go find
more cheese and it just kind ofmade it helped me.
Somebody gave me that book andhad me read it and it really
helped me.
Just go okay, man, you got togo get your cheese, dog you know
, that's how I was thinkingabout it.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I've never read that book.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It's good you would like it.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I don't like many books.
I'm that guy when folks arelike so has anyone read this
book.
By the way, like don't look atme, like I'm not going to be the
one person in the room that hasread the book, so you can just
ignore me sitting there.
Make eye contact with someoneelse, can ask them if they read
the book.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Because there's a pretty good chance.
I have not read the book.
It's a pretty easy book to read.
There's a little YouTube likean 80s, early 80s, late 70s
cartoon too, Pierre, so I'llsend you that a little bit later
.
I sent it to Josh Larkey theother day Everybody, Josh Larkey
so I'll send it to you as well.
So there's people like that inthe world as far as change goes
and how they react to differentkinds of change.
And in this article, from whatdid I say?
(17:26):
Harvard Business Review.
Is that what I said?
That is what you said?
I'm surprised I could remember,but it's a change arc and,
Pierre, I hope that we can putthis in the episode description
over on the Finding Faith LosingSleep podcast Twitter handle.
What is that?
Is that?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
The podcast Twitter handle is at FindingFaithPod.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Okay, well, that was easy.
The change arc, though peoplewant to know, and when they
first hear about changehappening, whether that's at
work, like a boss comes in andsays, hey, we got some new
policies, hey, we got to changesome things up around here, or
whether that's a job, callingand saying, hey, you got it,
it's, you're no longer employedhere, or I think it could be a
(18:08):
lot of things.
So, like news from the doctorRight, I don't, what are the?
What other things kind ofchange in life, like that news
from your children?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, that can be a thing.
Yeah, that can be a thing.
It is a bunch.
I mean IRS news, bill collectornews, your parents or a good
friend, sometimes your pastor,like you, can get news from
anywhere, any source and,depending on how it relates to
(18:45):
you, can really rock your world.
And you see, you can get newsthat's equally as bad as from
someone else that doesn't relateto you and it doesn't shake you
as much.
But I think when it hits closerto home, that kind of I don't
know that determines how you'regoing to react to the news that
you're getting.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
When change is first proposed at the bottom of this
arc if you could just see an arclike a half a circle people ask
the question what does thischange mean to me?
Why is this change happening?
And then the other question iswhat will it look like when the
change has been made?
And we try to gather all thatinformation in order to begin to
(19:26):
assess the different reactionsthat we're going to have or the
risk or the difficulty involvedin the different changes that's
going to need to take place.
And so we all just ask thosequestions, and I think they're
good questions to ask.
Will it be difficult?
Will it be costly?
Are things just going to beweird?
Difficult means that you justdon't know how to do things, or
(19:49):
how hard is this going to be forme to do?
I think is what it is.
Costly means what will it takefrom me in the things that I
value?
That could mean money, or itcan involve different things
like invisible valuables,identity, like I talked about
here.
I was no longer just sittingright here in my little comfort
zone at work.
(20:10):
I had to travel four hours.
Now, power, reputation,relationships, and weird just
means you know this is going tobe weird.
It's unnatural.
That ain't how we do it downhere.
That's what I want to say.
Do you think that we're I?
That ain't how we do it downhere.
That's what I want to say.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Do you do you think that we're?
I was just sitting herethinking about this.
Do you think that we'reresistant to change because it
takes our control away?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
definitely we like patterns.
I like patterns.
I like to just do the samething.
I was going to say the routineI have every day is unbelievably
smooth, right, and so when youstart throwing different things
in the way, I'm like that ain'thow I do it around here.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I think that's kind of why change happens, though I
think sometimes's kind of whychange happens, though I think
sometimes God just wants us tostep out a little bit, get out
of our comfort zone.
A lot of big things don't takeplace within your comfort zone.
You gotta take a chance, yougotta take a risk.
(21:19):
I think you see that you know,throughout the Bible you look at
Moses and it came to likePharaoh.
He's like no, not me, you justgot this wrong.
We talked about it Like he'dasked, you know multiple times
like wait a minute.
So no, because of this, nobecause of that.
And you know, ultimately he was.
You know who.
(21:40):
God chose to go to Pharaoh andrequest to let my people go.
And there's so many differentother scenarios where that was
the case, where someone wasuncomfortable with something and
you know God kind of had tonudge them or reassure them that
you know they were called to dowhat they were called to do,
(22:01):
even though it was uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yes, I agree, and sometimes we have to do that,
and we got to have faith thatGod is there with us during some
of those uncomfortable changesand we just got to know that
it's a God that's never changingand it's a God that's always
going to be there for us andhe's promised that for us.
So I think that we can takesolace in that.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
It's weird God never changes, but he sometimes makes
us change.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Hopefully for our good and His glory right.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
That's right.
He knows the plans he has forus, right Plans to prosper.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
People begin to accept change whenever their
mindset kind of changes aboutthose difficulties being costly
or weird or it's just going tobe just too hard, and start
thinking about change being easyand rewarding and normal, once
they kind of accept that I gotto go find my cheese again.
I can't just let somebody stealmy cheese and just sit here and
(23:02):
not try to go out and find itagain, as that book said, and
that could take some kind oftriggering.
It could be a mindset and Iwant to remind everybody you've
changed a million times alreadyin your life.
Things have happened.
You're no longer the personthat you once were.
At some point you were a littlebaby and everything and things
(23:24):
have changed over your life.
And whenever you get put in anobstacle in your routine, when
an obstacle gets put there, justremember there was an obstacle
put there not too long ago andtoday is still going on.
You know you can.
You can look at it like I'vealready overcome so many hurdles
(23:46):
.
I know I can overcome this onetoo, especially if God is there
as your strength.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, absolutely I think.
I think it can be tough, though, depending on that change, and
I don't know like it's hard to.
It's hard to think aboutbecause you never know what's
going to happen, but certainchanges I think are are easier
to come by, depending on whereyou're at in life, if that makes
(24:17):
sense.
So things, things that I gothrough now as an adult, you
know, in my 40s, I have enoughhindsight I can look back on to
find peace and know and trustthat things are going to be okay
, whereas you know, things thattook place when I was young, you
(24:38):
know, in my 20s, I probablyblew out of proportion.
They probably weren't asoverwhelming as I thought they
were, but in my time and howseasoned I was then or
non-season, I guess you couldsay it changed the way my
reaction was Perspective yeah,correct, perspective is a good
(24:58):
word for it and I think that'sgoing to happen with many people
.
Depending on where you're at inlife, what you've gone through
is going to depend on how you'regoing to react, so certain
people can still be in the samesituation.
Age doesn't necessarily matterhow life has kind of helped you
to grow throughout or if youeven chose to grow and change in
(25:21):
the first place is really goingto have an impact on how things
continue to happen, because weknow in this world there's going
to be trouble.
Right, we were told that that'sa definite.
With that trouble, how are yougoing to react?
Are you going to continue tohave perhaps the same behavior
that you had as a teen or as ayoung adult, or are you going to
(25:45):
grow from the troubles thattook place to handle those
circumstances better as you'vegotten older?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I said this to somebody.
They were in my way.
I'm just going to be honestwith you.
They were in my way.
I couldn't work.
They were in my way and I wasjust standing there and I was
just piddling and I was waitingfor them to finish because they
were pointing in the directionthat I needed to go.
The lady turned around.
She's like oh, I'm sorry, was Iin your way?
(26:18):
How long were you waiting?
Said, ah, no big deal, as longas I got my computer here.
I always got something to do.
She said well, next time justtell me.
And I said, ah, I look at itthe way I've looked at it like
this the Lord will put me wherehe needs me, for whatever reason
.
And so I'll just wait.
I'm just waiting for him tomove you.
Just wait, I'm just waiting forhim to move you.
(26:43):
That's what I said.
But it it opened up aconversation and we'll continue
that conversation, uh, wheneverI see her.
But it just opened up aconversation for that.
And I remember, whenever thiswarehouse closed and I had to do
that whole four hour commutething, uh, I, I didn't know why
and, to be honest with you, Iwas flabbergasted.
I just like I said it knockedme down, knocked me down.
I was having to wake up reallyearly in the morning and just
(27:04):
never getting home at night.
It was just, it was reallyweird.
And then I got to know some ofthe guys at this new warehouse
right and Wes is always be.
Wes where I'm, I always got anevangelistic mindset.
It's just the gift that god hasgiven me.
I don't I reminisce with peopleI don't even know and I I never
(27:25):
meet a stranger kind of aperson, right and uh.
So I was talking to these guys,develop a relationship.
There were and this is allgod's doing, not my doing, but
it was these couple of peoplethat I'm particularly thinking
about are yoked, pierre.
Yoked, okay, yoked is verystrong is what they were.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
They go to the gym.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, jacked, jacked, I am not Okay, I'm just not.
And I'm sure I was grumpybecause, as you could tell, I
had to get up early, not a lotof sleep, stuff like that.
And this one guy, he wastelling me about his marriage
and that he's just going to geta divorce.
(28:10):
I said, what, are you a wimp?
That's what I said.
That's what I said.
I don't know if I was relyingon the strength of God or the
stupidity.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
You did.
Your whole life flashed infront of you.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
No, not when I said it, but when he turned around
and said what I said.
Well, I don't understand whyyou would do that.
You're such a big tough guy andyet you're going to take the
easy way out of this.
You know, just something likethat.
I don't know, don't quote me,okay, but it was something like
that.
I don't know, don't quote me,ok, but it was something like
that.
Then the other guy, at adifferent point, he kind of said
the same thing and I saidyou're scared, aren't you?
(28:49):
He said scared of what I said.
You're just scared, big oldtough guy like you, sitting
there, scared of everything, andyou're just going to sit there
and take this easy way out again.
Both of those marriages I don'tknow that they're still going on
today, but they were going onwhen I left there, because they
both reunited with their wivesand stuff like that and I was
like and and and, honestly, Iwas like that's why you sent me
(29:12):
here.
Okay, all right, I get it now.
Fine, I get it now.
Can we please get the warehouseback towards the other side of
town?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Mission accomplished, we'll be back.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
But you know, the point is we don't know the
reasons why, but we still haveto use the talents and gifts
that God has given us, no matterwhere we're being sent, no
matter what we're doing.
And look, I know that's hard,sometimes it could be a lot, it
could be easier said than done.
I know that's hard, sometimesit could be a lot, it could be
easier said than done.
I share that story with you,not to brag on myself, but just
to share it with you, that ifyou're in that same kind of
(29:45):
circumstance out there, thatmaybe trying to figure out where
you can get more cheese, whereyou can get it, or trying to
figure out how this could be apositive, I didn't know and I
didn't know at the time thatthis was going to happen.
And whenever I said thosethings I certainly didn't know
what I was saying.
(30:06):
But I was in the right place atthe right time for God's
purpose.
And if change has come to youand it's out of your control and
you've done everything you knowyou can possibly do to keep
that routine, then it's not youchanging it, it's something else
(30:27):
changing it, it's an outsidesource.
And if we believe that God isin control of everything.
And if we're going to trustthat God has our best interests
at heart, then let's just goahead and say God, put me where
you need me at the right placeat the right time for your glory
.
Put me where you need me at theright place at the right time
for your glory.
It makes life a lot easier forme.
Now, it doesn't mean I alwaysremember it whenever I'm sitting
(30:47):
in a hospital room or somethinglike that.
You know, with the differentthings that we've just been
through as a family hererecently doesn't mean I always
remember that and it's a loteasier said than applied.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
But it's still something that needs to, that I
need to have my mindset on.
Yep, that's a good word.
Um, I agree, I agree and again,like you say, though, it's
really tough in certain moments.
Um, hospital rooms isdefinitely a big one.
Um, it's just people's sorrowand um, I know, like I went,
there's like a lot of folks thatstand by, like our, our local
stores, and they have likedifferent signs.
(31:26):
You know that they're in need,they're in need of help.
And I want to say it wasglorify, the glorify app, maybe
a week ago or so.
It touched on like compassionversus pity and really made me
think.
Like how many times, like you,you go past someone clearly
struggling, no idea why they'restruggling, but your, your
(31:49):
initial thought is more of apity standpoint you just kind of
feel sorry for them and don'tdo anything about it versus
having a compassion, you know,like jesus did, and seems you're
did, and doing something likesome type of action based off
that compassion that you have.
It doesn't necessarily meangiving them money.
(32:10):
Sometimes you're giving themtime and having a conversation,
learning their story, how theygot there, et cetera.
Sometimes it is, you know,giving them.
You know something that you'rehoping that can help, but
oftentimes you don't know theend result.
So, like you got to witness,you know, at least for a little
bit.
You know those marriagesreconnect and continue.
(32:32):
There's also going to be timeswhere you're put in situations
where you don't know what theend result is going to be, but
you still are in that situationto maybe plant a seed or to
bring hope.
You know personally to thatindividual or to that situation
that maybe you're the one shotthat person has in the hope.
(32:54):
Maybe other people are going todrive by or walk by and ignore
that situation, but you know Godhas you there in hopes that
you're the one that's going to.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
You know, intervene and and try to change the
situation some and showcompassion versus pity well and
I might get this wrong, but I Iheard on k love um that there
was this, this guy.
It's kind of like listening tothe holy spirit now, that nudge
like sometimes, where you justhave a feeling like you need to
(33:23):
go do something.
And this guy was talking aboutum.
He was at work and his boss wasan atheist and he had that
nudge to go invite him to churchand everything in him said this
why, like, he's not going?
Um, you know he's an atheist, Imight get fired if I go and
invite him to church.
(33:43):
But he did it and the bossturned him down and he didn't
understand it.
And fast forward like a fewyears and he is preaching and
after his sermon a guy comes upand he introduces himself and
he's like you know you don'tknow me, but I need to tell you
my story because you're thereason I'm here and he was like,
(34:05):
excuse me, and he was likesomething along the lines of he
was looking for work andsomebody asked him if he'd ever
laid tile and he was like youknow, I did my bathroom once.
Sure, I could use the money.
Yeah, I could, I can lay sometile.
So they had him go to thisman's office and he's like you
came in and I was behind thedesk laying tile when you came
(34:26):
in and invited your boss tochurch and he turned it down.
But I went and it's because ofwhat you said to him.
That is the reason that I'mhere.
And so, if something alongthose lines and it was just
super powerful, because youdon't always know why god's
having you do something like hethought, clearly it was that he
was supposed to invite his bossto church, but his boss had
(34:47):
absolutely nothing to do with it.
It was the man behind the deskthat he couldn't see.
So sometimes, even when wethink it's a failure, when god's
leading us a certain way, itcould be that we just didn't
have the right perspective, soyou never know who's watching or
who's listening.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, I like that.
That was a good one, michelle,it was good on Caleb.
That's true, but yeah, no, thatis good, Pierre.
If we had a commercial breaklike right now, I think would be
a great commercial break, andthen we would come back and kind
of wrap the show up.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
We don't have a commercial break.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
It was a dramatic pause.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
But we can plug, you know.
You can email us atfindinglosingsleep at gmailcom.
You can leave a review, if youlike, over on any of the
listening platforms.
We're on Apple Podcasts, we'reon Spotify, iheartradio, you
name them.
There's a few others I thinkI'm missing, but we're out there
(35:54):
.
So thanks for listening.
If you want to show yoursupport, leave a review, slap us
five stars if you don't mind.
And again, email atfindingfaithlosingasleep at
Gmail.
You can also text us throughone of the listening platforms.
You know, when you go into thesummary of the show or the
episode, it gives you an optionto send us a text If you'd like
to do that as well.
(36:15):
Now back to our regular program.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
That's a change in our podcast.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
A change.
Yeah, hey, and I read up aboutpeople leaving reviews and
everything.
First of all, it only takeslike a minute, not even that.
If you have it just right thereon your iPhone or anything, you
can just next time you stop itfor a little bit, I was going to
say stop at a red light, don'tdo it.
Then Keep driving Both eyes onthe wheel, both hands on the
(36:42):
wheel, but next time you stop,just hit a review.
You know just real quick youcan do that in just a matter of
minutes.
And what it does is it helps getthe podcast out there to other
people.
And we've said it many times,we don't collect any money for
this or anything.
We actually pay money to beable to have this go out to the
world or wherever, just becausewe want to be able to do our
(37:02):
part, to be able to help changepeople's lives, and so that's
how it goes out there, and so ifyou could just leave a review,
let us know.
We would love to hear from youtoo.
Just hey, you guys are doing agood job.
That'd be great, that'd begreat.
But it helps get the podcastout there in front of more eyes
or in more ears and if it'shelped you, hopefully it can
help somebody else as well.
(37:22):
I think about Paul and his ideaof change, and what was Paul
before he became a Christian?
Do you guys know Saul?
He was Saul, and what did he dofor a living?
Speaker 2 (37:35):
He was persecuting.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Christians honestly.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
So, you know, here's one of the weird things about
Paul that I've often wrestledwith at night, which is what
this podcast is about.
He, you know, he was doingGod's will in his mind
beforehand, and he probably wasdoing God's will for a long time
in his life and at some pointmaybe he started denying what
his heart was feeling.
I don't know, I don't know whyhe continued to do the things he
(38:02):
did, other than he was verycomfortable in his skin and he
knew what his routine was and heknew what the right thing to do
was, and that was to arrestChristians, persecute Christians
, to quit letting thisChristianity spread.
That was his job as a what washe?
(38:23):
A Jewish Pharisee kind of guy,you know, a Roman kind of Jewish
Pharisee guy.
That's what his job was, and itdoesn't feel like he liked
change all that much, you know,true.
And then he got hit on the roadto Damascus with that big,
bright light and his, his lifechanged and Jesus spoke to him,
(38:44):
saw, saw.
Why are you persecuting me?
You know those kind of thingsand you could read that in the
book of acts.
But I just think about himwrestling now with Christianity
and with his old self and allthe things that he knew was
right.
I think about how hard it wasfor me to walk in the faith
(39:05):
after all the old habits that Iused to have walking in this
world so hard.
And it's hard for people tocome out of the world into faith
.
But you know, there are somepeople who struggle with
different religions too.
Maybe they were raised.
(39:26):
I don't know, mormon Catholic.
Maybe they were raisedChristian.
They're going to something.
Maybe they were raised Muslimand there's all these different,
you know, habits that peoplehave and now they're starting to
find out something new andthat's hard to do.
That's really hard and I thinkabout Paul doing that.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, it's hard for anyone and you have it.
Like you mentioned, you have itin different religions.
You have some Christians thatchange you know where.
They don't believe becausesomething took place in their
lives.
You have some that wereatheists or agn now do believe
because something changed inyour life, and so I think that's
(40:08):
a good reminder to just becareful.
I guess I'm not sure if becareful is what I'm looking for,
but just be cautious that lifedoesn't toss you lemons to the
point where you're trying tomake apple juice.
It's going to be tough.
Everyone goes through things.
(40:29):
We've all gone through things,from health-wise to death, to
job stuff and financialobligation.
We've all gone through things.
But don't let it change you forthe for the worst, I guess would
be the thing, because sometimesthat happens, like you let
tragedy, um, or something awfuljust change you completely to
(40:53):
where you're.
You're unidentifiable as theperson you used to be, and it's
not for the good.
Um, it's different to bechanged for the good and you
know, be the light, you know andbe love versus changing and
becoming that darkness and thathate.
I think that's a gooddecipheral and kind of the
changes in our opinion from Godversus not from God.
(41:16):
So if you feel yourselfchanging, you know for the worse
that change may not be a changefrom God and I recommend you
pray about it, get into yourword, get into your Bible or get
into folks you trust.
Sometimes it's those trustedvoices that can help you out of
situations as well.
But don't let change ruin yourgoodness, your light, your joy
(41:43):
and things along those lines.
Easier said than done, I'm sure, in certain situations, but
everyone's been through thosevalley-type moments, so make
sure you're changing for thegood.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Sometimes we like to hold on to things, sometimes
just because it's our comfortzone, it's what we know.
The fear of the unknown sticksin there and it's a lot easier
to just stay with what you knowversus jumping out and taking
the chance and changing, eventhough it could be so much
better.
We like to stay stuck sometimes.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
I think it's just human nature and don't get down
on yourself either human natureand don't get down on yourself
either If you fail at continuingto carry your joy with you when
things change or you're tryingto make and create new habits.
Don't get down on yourself ifyou fail once or twice.
I'm not saying to continue totry to fail or that you want to
(42:37):
fail, but don't be too hard onyourself either to the point to
where you stop trying to changeor you stop trying to continue
being your old self into thisdifferent environment that
you're having to go into.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, I agree and I think, like you mentioned, with
the conversation you had withthe gentleman and divorce, like
sometimes things are going to behard, it doesn't mean you give
up, it doesn't mean you quit onthings that get difficult, so
just keep that in mind as well.
But I also wonder, like what ifone of them was supposed to
(43:12):
change Wes and you came in andyou, I won't go down that road,
I won't?
Speaker 1 (43:18):
go down that road.
See when you got that thoughtseriously, while you were
talking about what you weresaying, I was like, just think
if one of those wives had prayedfor their husband and the
divorce and everything.
And then I come walking intothe picture.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
West said, not today.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
And once again, that is not to brag on anything about
me, not one bit, and I hope ourlisteners know that.
Thinking back to Paul and Idon't know that there was a
tougher dude on himself thanPaul was, and I'm so glad that
he was an open book and inRomans 7, he just talks about
(43:58):
his old self wrestling with thelaw and all the different things
that were in the law the OldTestament, I guess we could say
and trying to figure out thisnew way of life.
And he was doing this so peoplewould understand his struggles
and not beat themselves up ifthey were struggling themselves
(44:19):
with making changes.
Right, yeah?
And he says in verse 14, for weknow that the law or the old
way is spiritual, but I am ofthe flesh sold into bondage to
sin.
For that which I am doing, Idon't understand.
I'm not practicing what I wouldlike to do, but I am doing the
very thing I hate to do.
(44:40):
But if I do the very thing I donot wish to do, but I am doing
the very thing I hate to do.
But if I do the very thing I donot wish to do, I agree with
the law, confessing that it isgood.
So now no longer am I the onedoing it, but sin that dwells in
me, isn't that weird.
Like he says, I ain't evendoing it, it's just an old habit
.
It's just sin dwelling in medoing it.
I can't stop it.
It just feels like he's just sofrustrated.
(45:03):
Right, for I know that nothinggood dwells in me that is in my
flesh, for the wishing ispresent in me, but the doing of
good is not.
What a guy he knew.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
I mean, and there's people right now, like you know
how many years ago this was thatPaul wrote this to the Romans
there's people today 2025, thatare facing those same struggles,
like they're doing things theydo not want to do and it feels
uncontrollable, controllable.
So just note that.
(45:39):
You know these types ofstruggles have happened, you
know along the way, and I thinkrecognizing that is a good first
step, right Like recognizing Idon't want to do this.
You know, I got to figure out away to no longer do it because
I don't want to do it, so that'sa good first step.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Yeah, he's not in denial, he's past the denial
step.
You know he understands whathe's doing.
Verse 19, that's Romans,chapter 7, verse 19.
For the good that I wish, I donot do, but I practice the very
evil that I do not wish.
But if I'm doing the very thingI do not wish, I am no longer
the one doing it, but sin thatdwells in me.
(46:19):
I find, then, the principlethat evil is present in me, the
one who wishes to do good, for Ijoyfully concur with the law of
God in the inner man, but I seea different law in the members
of my body, waging war againstthe law of my mind and making me
a prisoner of the law of sinwhich is in my members.
Wretched man that I am, whowill set me free from the body
(46:43):
of this death?
Thanks be to God, through JesusChrist, our Lord.
So then, on the one hand, Imyself, with my mind, am serving
the law of God, but on theother, with my flesh, the law of
sin.
Boy Paul, you just quit beatingyourself up.
And then he focuses right therein chapter 8, verse 1, the very
next verse.
(47:04):
There is now, therefore, nocondemnation for those who are
in Christ.
Jesus Isn't that beautiful.
He just gets done beatinghimself up over and over again,
talking about he's just a sinfulman, a wretched man that I am,
and he just feels so bad abouthimself standing before God and
doing the things he doesn't wantto do, and then he reminds
(47:27):
everybody who's reading thisthat there is no condemnation
for people who have clothedthemselves with Christ, and
that's our eternal only hope.
And that's what we really haveto remember is there are some
people that are struggling withso many things out there that
don't want to, that just don'twant to.
(47:47):
They don't have that hope, andfor me to give them that hope is
my job, and that's what we comehere to this podcast for,
that's what we walk around inour shoes for, that's what we
live our lives for, and I hopethat those are encouraging words
, not from me, but from Paul,the Apostle, paul, who desires
(48:09):
all men everywhere to hear thesewords, and they can know that
struggle that he had.
And if we call him an apostle,if we say he's Paul and we hold
him in high esteem, then youshould hold yourself in high
esteem too, because if he canstruggle with things, you can
too, as long as you're trying todo the right thing, like he was
(48:29):
, yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
I can, I do.
It's a good reminder.
I mean all Paul's letters and Iwon't go through it all, but I
even wrote like AI is pretty bigright now, I'm sure you know
that, but I think it wasyesterday Like I just typed in
AI like what would a letter fromPaul?
(48:51):
So it's crazy, we're talkingabout Paul today what would a
letter from Paul to the worldtoday look like?
And it came, yeah, a pretty,pretty long thing.
I'll send it to you and it'spretty neat.
It's kind of you kind of usesome of the same terminology
that you know.
Ai tried to fit it into whatPaul would say and I can
actually, you know, picture thatbeing in the Bible.
(49:12):
To some extent.
It's pretty cool.
I know it's not, it's not inthe Bible, it's just AI, but
just the thought process of it.
It still resonates, you know,with what happens today.
The thought process of it.
It still resonates with whathappens today.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
That was my closing thought.
Do you guys have anything elseto add?
Or is that putting a nicelittle bow on things?
Speaker 2 (49:32):
It was good to get back behind the mic.
I know we've been out for a bit.
Again a lot of change has beentaking place in our household.
Good to get back.
Hopefully you know these arelistening.
Thanks for listening.
Yes, we got a bunch of recentGerman listeners, so thank you
(49:52):
to Germany.
If you leave a review, maybetry to translate it in English
because I probably won't be ableto read it in German, but
thanks to those listeninganywhere, in your cars, in your
homes, at work, we trulyappreciate you allowing us into
your lives a little bit.
Obviously, we just pray andhope that it's helpful as we
talk through some of our ownstruggles, opportunities, joys,
(50:15):
wins, changes in our lives thatyou can also see in yourself.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
We've got a lot going on outside right now.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Hey, I can hear it and we will go ahead and we will
wrap it up on the sirens in thebackground.
They're coming after you guys.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
We had somebody standing outside of our house a
second ago, so it was a littleunsettling, but I don't know
what's going on.
We live in a great neighborhoodso it was highly unusual.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Yeah, well, okay.
Well, we'll let you guys checkthat out and I'll just remind
the listeners to pray for us,just like we pray for you.
It's time to wake up and pray up here.
On the Finding Faith and LosingSleep podcast.
I'm Wes Eastman, one of yourhosts at Loafin' it over on
Twitter.
If Twitter is still such athing anymore, it might be X or
whatever it is, and I have withme all the way from up north in
Yankee land.
It is Pierre and Michelle.
How are you two doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
How are you Doing?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
well Not really Yankee land.
It is, pierre and Michelle.
How are you two doing today?
Doing well.
How are you Doing well?
Not really Yankee land, likewe're not in New York, which is
where I think Yankee is, but Iget where you're going.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah, we are.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I want to go back to, like the Civil War days.
Sure.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
We are it's Confederate, it's Confederacy
down here.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I mean that's fair given some things that are
taking place in the country, butwe won't go there.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Well, we might have to go there at some point.
Hey, I was thinking about this,like I gave out my Twitter
handle at lowfimp.
Here is at PeeWee31 over onTwitter.
Michelle is at GoPackGo911.
Is that 411?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
411, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
At GoPackGo411.
I don't know what the Twitterhandle is.
Pierre, that's your job.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
At FindingFaithPod is the Twitter slash X, x as well.
You got to toss an X.
It's been X for a little bitnow, so Twitter slash X.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
My favorite is when he says X every time he crosses
his arms in an X Well, kind offorever, you know how it is.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
What do you guys think of Twitter or X nowadays?
I know I still see Pierre onthere every so often.
I know I'm on there every sooften.
I think I get my news fromthere, pierre.
It feels like that's how I reada newspaper now, and this is
something.
By the way, our podcast isabout things that keep you up
late at night.
It involves faith a lot oftimes, or just our walk in life.
The three of us are Christians,not theologians.
(01:41):
I guess we are kind oftheologians, but very amateurish
, is that right?
I mean, I could say we haven'tbeen to college to get our
theological degrees, but we aretheologians.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Everybody who talks about Christianity or religion
is a theologian.
Am I right?
I don't know, that's adangerous term.
I don't want to give the wrongperception to those listening
and tuning in.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
We just have opinions .
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, okay, opinions, opinions about stuff, uh, but,
but that is where I get myinformation from, as far as like
newspapers or stuff like thatgoes.
And I I would like to say I usereliable sources, um, and maybe
unreliable sources as well,just to see what's out there.
But what do you guys thinkabout?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
x I mean I, I honestly mostly use it for
sports stuff.
Um, so you know, you and I dolike a dfs pod as well for daily
fantasy sports and like most ofthe news breaks first on there.
So that's that's why I mostlyuse it is to get news on like
lineups and things that arecoming out.
I don't actually dive into likereal world news outside of
(02:46):
sports.
Um, a lot of ads, it feels likethese days, yeah, um, a lot of
bots as well.
Um, which is kind of you know,shifted where you just get like
folks liking or replying thatthat don't seem to be real
people.
Um, that's just my experiencewith it.
Michelle, do you really diveinto the twitter machines too?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
uh, nope, I never have.
Really.
Honestly, I'll be on thereevery once in a while, but I'm
still.
You know, as olivia would say,I'm old.
Um, I still use facebook, butmostly I use facebook just as
like my memory, because I likelike the memories that come up.
So, um, I usually just kind ofuse it for that and to post like
(03:28):
new stuff to come up in mymemories next year, the year
after.
So, unfortunately, I don't usesocial media like Instagram,
twitter, like all of that reallyvery much at all how can people
get a hold of you on myspace,michelle?
Speaker 1 (03:41):
how can they shut?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
up wes.
No, I okay.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So here's my space, my eyes was kind of fire too.
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
My space was kind of I used to like switch.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I used to switch girls in my top 10 just to get
reaction I, that is a hundredpercent true, I guarantee you
we're learning a lot of thingsabout pier tonight.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Um, there was a talk before the podcast about some
things and we're learning a lotabout pier hey, I tell people,
if you knew me, then you believeme now.
I mean that I I never had amyspace thing.
Um, I don't, I don't, I don'tknow about any of that.
So where do you guys get newsfrom or headlines from?
(04:26):
Where do you guys get that?
Because that really is.
I mean, twitter is where I getmy headlines from, besides the
things that are just sent to myphone from some application I
have on there that I don't evenknow that I downloaded, it just
was always on my phone, and soit's like Newsbreak or something
like that and it just tells meheadlines.
But it's really, really builtupon me.
(04:48):
The algorithm has me reallydialed in there, and I'm sure
Twitter does as well.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
We don't.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I'll get it from her parents.
I don't watch these.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
We're half the oblivious.
I thought this show was kind ofabout current events and stuff,
is it not?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
It is, but you catch wind, You're going to hear it,
yeah.
I don't need a news outlet toknow what's going on.
People conversate, whether itbe at church or in our live
groups or again amongst family.
They kind of talk about it andthen from there you can always
just kind of if you'reinterested enough, google to get
a sense of what actuallythey're discussing or talking
(05:28):
about.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, if I knew everything that was going on,
I'd never sleep, I'm sure, likeI sleep very little these days
anyway, so that would probablymake it worse.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I think I have this right and you guys can fact
check me.
You know how we are on thisshow.
You can always just fact checkme and see if I'm telling the
truth on something or not.
But I believe MySpace the dayMySpace ended was the next day
Facebook started.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Oh, I don't doubt that.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I don't think that's true.
I do think it's true and thatjust goes into.
Like the CIA or the FBI weredoing both of them at some point
, you know, just to be able toget more people on to a
different platform, because theyalready had everybody's
information on MySpace.
It was kind of coming dead, andso they had to do a different
(06:15):
one and everybody just rolledinto that one.
You know, it was all just.
It's all about just gettinginformation, is what it's about.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I do remember rolling over and you know, what's funny
is like I don't know.
A couple of months ago Iactually logged into my MySpace
and, lo and behold, it was stillthere.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I know that's not true because I had both and it
was in college.
So when Facebook first started,I want to say it was in 2004,.
Because I would have been Iwould have been a junior or
senior when Facebook started andit was only for college
students.
You had to be in a universityto even have it and MySpace was
(06:54):
still going on.
So maybe when they went publicand it was more for the general
public versus students, thatmight have been the case, but
not the initial launch, becauseFacebook was students, only for
students.
That might have been the case,but not the initial launch,
because facebook was studentsonly and I believe it initially
started at harvard.
Um was the first, I think,because I believe if you watch
the movie uh, I can't rememberwhat it's called there's a movie
about it and I think harvardwas the first university and
(07:16):
then it kind of branched out toother universities before it
actually went public, to thosethat weren't associated with the
university.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I still have an AOL email address.
No, I'm just kidding about that.
As we talk about, you know,myspace, facebook and all that,
it leads us into our discussionhere this evening, or our topic
about change.
We're going to talk aboutchange tonight, and it's you
know, change is one of thosethings that I don't know.
I don't go into them reallyfast and furious a lot of times.
(07:46):
You know, change the definitionof it is to make someone or
something different, to altersomething or to modify it, to
replace something with somethingelse, especially something of
the same kind that is newer orbetter, substitute one thing for
another.
So when I think about change,though it really seems like it's
(08:07):
hard for me to change, what doyou guys think?
Is it hard for you guys tochange too, or is it one of
those things that you're justlike, oh boy, I can't wait to
change Because my wife itdepends?
I really think my wife likes tochange.
I know she likes to change thefurniture around in the house.
She loves to do that Loves, andI would.
I bet you if, if it was up tome, I would have the same chair
(08:30):
in the same place my entire life.
You know that's just where itgoes, but she loves to change
that stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I.
I am not the best with change.
I don't love it.
I.
I understand it's mostlyinevitable, so I give into it.
I.
It's not in my nature really.
I'm, I'm which is weird becauseI don't know.
I I like change for some thingsand not for others is probably
(08:57):
the best answer I and mydaughter are pretty good at
changing clothes.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I can tell you that much um here does the laundry at
the house.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
You can tell that I do my own.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
But yeah, change is difficult.
Uh, when it comes to thingsoutside of material, like,
especially if you're looking atspiritually, I feel, um,
physically, you know, even likethose that like try to like,
exercise, workout it out, it's alot harder to get in shape
versus getting out of shape, andso it's really, it's really,
(09:30):
it's really tough, for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Oh yeah, it is, and that's interesting.
You say you do your own, I domy own laundry as well, I do.
I let I you know the girls cando their laundry or whatever,
but I do my own laundry.
Just it feels like I've lifteda burden, is what it feels like.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I lift the burden off myself, because you don't know
what to put in the dryer or whatto hang up.
It becomes stressful, so I'mjust going to do my own, and
y'all can figure it out foryourself.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I have no idea how khakis like a khaki pair of
pants, a tan pair of pants andred shirts go in the laundry at
the same time or the washingmachine at the same time.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I don't understand that they shouldn't they do,
they do I was told they do, somaybe that's why they got that
little pink I legit do reds,oranges and sometimes dark
purples all together as one load.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
A change.
You may need to change that,michelle, because it's all going
to blend together.
You're going to have tie-dye.
Everything is what you're goingto end up having, but that's
okay, that's all right, that'sokay.
Change this is from a.
What is this from?
I was looking at differentthings about change.
This is from a Harvard BusinessReview all right, harvard
Business Review and one of thethings that makes me sound smart
(10:51):
whenever I say that but I don'tunderstand a word that they say
.
So I don't know about that.
But they say you could kind ofblame our history as a species
for not liking change and whychange is so hard for a lot of
people.
If you think about what it waslike until a couple of past
generations, people stayed inthe same city.
They did the vocation of theirparents.
(11:14):
Everything just kind of stayedthe same.
You even inherited like yourparents' house.
But I don't know that that'snecessarily what's in the plans
for all of us anymore.
It feels like there's morechange on the horizon for
everybody than what it used tobe, and I believe that.
I think that that's true.
I agree.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Just think about how much this life is changing.
So you look back at like olderdays.
For one, like we just talkedabout, you know news outlets.
There was a time where youdidn't have TVs and radios so
you wouldn't know what was goingon.
You look at different ways oflike transportation.
You wouldn't be able to get tocertain places, you know because
(11:54):
you know cars were different.
You know you maybe weren't ableto fly at a certain point in
time.
And even myself I'm goingthrough a major change with my
job and even myself I'm goingthrough a major change with my
job.
So after 17 years I think itwas you know I got let go for
technically no reason.
They were doing some reductions.
I think honestly I made toomuch compared to some of my
(12:19):
peers, but that's a pretty bigchange when you've been
somewhere for 17 years, like I'mlooking back at my resume, like
the latest resume.
I had and man, it was so basic,you know, just out of school and
not much history at all, andjust having to update that and
just looking at the differencesbetween kind of the experience
that I had then and all thethings I've learned over these
(12:41):
17 years with different toolsand different technical skills,
et cetera, it's a it's a bigdifference, it's a big change.
The, the job like market itselfhas changed quite a bit.
Where it's a little tough rightnow, honestly, and it's a lot
of people you know looking for asmall amount of jobs, so you
(13:03):
really got to make sure you'restanding out.
It's weird.
It's really weird.
It's difficult, but you know,you can look at it from a bright
side, which is I'm trying to,as well as sometimes, changes
required in order to moveforward to your next step in
life.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
And I think what we found is that all too often God
kind of has to slam that doorfor you, like, okay, you're
taking too long, this isn't theplan, so I got to kick you out
of here in order for you to getdown the road where you need to
be.
And I think we're all a littlefrom time to time a little
resistant to change.
And things can happen andyou'll be like I don't know why
(13:42):
that had to happen.
And then you know thathindsight will give you that
answer.
Often you'd be like, oh okay, Iget it.
If that wouldn't have happened,then all of these other things
couldn't have happened the waythat they did and I wouldn't be
where I am.
But it's hard to see, andsometimes remember that you're
going to have that hindsight atsome point, but until you get
(14:02):
there, sometimes it can bereally challenging.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
If you need to, Pierre, you could throw my name
around.
That'll help.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I already threw your name around.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I'm sure you do.
I remember one time when wemoved into the house that we're
currently in.
It was a minute and a half awayfrom work.
It was a minute and a half awayfrom work.
Oh, wow, oh, wow, wow.
You know, and, and my, myentire you know route and
everything right here on thisside of town, man, I had it made
(14:34):
you know it.
Just it felt so, everything wasjust right there and it's how I
liked it, it's how I loved itbecause, uh, you guys know my
past and how I moved around fromhouse to house to house, all
those things, whenever I was akid growing up.
So now here I am, condensed inthis one little area.
Everybody knows my name.
I can't walk down the road orgo outside without people saying
hey to me, stuff like that.
(14:55):
It really feels good and Ireally, really like that and
that was cool.
And then work changed.
They shut down the warehouse.
The closest warehouse that Icould do things in was about an
hour away.
In my brain, an hour is what itwas.
So I had to drive an hour there.
(15:16):
I had to load a truck, drive anhour back, run the route, drive
an hour back, unload and drivean hour back home.
You went from a three minutecommute essentially to a four
hour commute.
Wow, I tell you what.
(15:37):
I couldn't get over the hump.
I just couldn't figure it out.
We're going to talk about thathere in a minute.
I'm going to tell you something.
One book that really helped meout is a little cartoon out
there and everything like that.
It's kind of in that same facetof life as that Stephen Covey
and stuff like that.
But this one is Dr SpencerJohnson, who Moved my Cheese is
(15:58):
what it's called.
Oh yeah, that's such a goodbook.
Oh, it's a cool little book,isn't it?
And it's about how differentpeople react different ways.
And you got the two different,separate people.
Both had two groups in thereand one group was like just
sitting down, going wait aminute.
Somebody moved my cheese andthey just waited for the cheese
to come back.
And then you had another groupthat said, oh, somebody moved my
(16:22):
cheese and then theyaggressively went out to go find
more cheese and it just kind ofmade it helped me.
Somebody gave me that book andhad me read it and it really
helped me.
Just go okay, man, you got togo get your cheese, dog you know
, that's how I was thinkingabout it.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
I've never read that book.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It's good you would like it.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I don't like many books.
I'm that guy when folks arelike so has anyone read this
book.
By the way, like don't look atme, like I'm not going to be the
one person in the room that hasread the book, so you can just
ignore me sitting there.
Make eye contact with someoneelse, can ask them if they read
the book.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Because there's a pretty good chance.
I have not read the book.
It's a pretty easy book to read.
There's a little YouTube likean 80s, early 80s, late 70s
cartoon too, Pierre, so I'llsend you that a little bit later
.
I sent it to Josh Larkey theother day Everybody, Josh Larkey
so I'll send it to you as well.
So there's people like that inthe world as far as change goes
and how they react to differentkinds of change.
And in this article, from whatdid I say?
(17:26):
Harvard Business Review.
Is that what I said?
That is what you said?
I'm surprised I could remember,but it's a change arc and,
Pierre, I hope that we can putthis in the episode description
over on the Finding Faith LosingSleep podcast Twitter handle.
What is that?
Is that?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
The podcast Twitter handle is at FindingFaithPod.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Okay, well, that was easy.
The change arc, though peoplewant to know, and when they
first hear about changehappening, whether that's at
work, like a boss comes in andsays, hey, we got some new
policies, hey, we got to changesome things up around here, or
whether that's a job, callingand saying, hey, you got it,
it's, you're no longer employedhere, or I think it could be a
(18:08):
lot of things.
So, like news from the doctorRight, I don't, what are the?
What other things kind ofchange in life, like that news
from your children?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, that can be a thing.
Yeah, that can be a thing.
It is a bunch.
I mean IRS news, bill collectornews, your parents or a good
friend, sometimes your pastor,like you, can get news from
anywhere, any source and,depending on how it relates to
(18:45):
you, can really rock your world.
And you see, you can get newsthat's equally as bad as from
someone else that doesn't relateto you and it doesn't shake you
as much.
But I think when it hits closerto home, that kind of I don't
know that determines how you'regoing to react to the news that
you're getting.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
When change is first proposed at the bottom of this
arc if you could just see an arclike a half a circle people ask
the question what does thischange mean to me?
Why is this change happening?
And then the other question iswhat will it look like when the
change has been made?
And we try to gather all thatinformation in order to begin to
(19:26):
assess the different reactionsthat we're going to have or the
risk or the difficulty involvedin the different changes that's
going to need to take place.
And so we all just ask thosequestions, and I think they're
good questions to ask.
Will it be difficult?
Will it be costly?
Are things just going to beweird?
Difficult means that you justdon't know how to do things, or
(19:49):
how hard is this going to be forme to do?
I think is what it is.
Costly means what will it takefrom me in the things that I
value?
That could mean money, or itcan involve different things
like invisible valuables,identity, like I talked about
here.
I was no longer just sittingright here in my little comfort
zone at work.
(20:10):
I had to travel four hours.
Now, power, reputation,relationships, and weird just
means you know this is going tobe weird.
It's unnatural.
That ain't how we do it downhere.
That's what I want to say.
Do you think that we're I?
That ain't how we do it downhere.
That's what I want to say.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Do you do you think that we're?
I was just sitting herethinking about this.
Do you think that we'reresistant to change because it
takes our control away?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
definitely we like patterns.
I like patterns.
I like to just do the samething.
I was going to say the routineI have every day is unbelievably
smooth, right, and so when youstart throwing different things
in the way, I'm like that ain'thow I do it around here.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I think that's kind of why change happens, though I
think sometimes's kind of whychange happens, though I think
sometimes God just wants us tostep out a little bit, get out
of our comfort zone.
A lot of big things don't takeplace within your comfort zone.
You gotta take a chance, yougotta take a risk.
(21:19):
I think you see that you know,throughout the Bible you look at
Moses and it came to likePharaoh.
He's like no, not me, you justgot this wrong.
We talked about it Like he'dasked, you know multiple times
like wait a minute.
So no, because of this, nobecause of that.
And you know, ultimately he was.
You know who.
(21:40):
God chose to go to Pharaoh andrequest to let my people go.
And there's so many differentother scenarios where that was
the case, where someone wasuncomfortable with something and
you know God kind of had tonudge them or reassure them that
you know they were called to dowhat they were called to do,
(22:01):
even though it was uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yes, I agree, and sometimes we have to do that,
and we got to have faith thatGod is there with us during some
of those uncomfortable changesand we just got to know that
it's a God that's never changingand it's a God that's always
going to be there for us andhe's promised that for us.
So I think that we can takesolace in that.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
It's weird God never changes, but he sometimes makes
us change.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Hopefully for our good and His glory right.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
That's right.
He knows the plans he has forus, right Plans to prosper.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
People begin to accept change whenever their
mindset kind of changes aboutthose difficulties being costly
or weird or it's just going tobe just too hard, and start
thinking about change being easyand rewarding and normal, once
they kind of accept that I gotto go find my cheese again.
I can't just let somebody stealmy cheese and just sit here and
(23:02):
not try to go out and find itagain, as that book said, and
that could take some kind oftriggering.
It could be a mindset and Iwant to remind everybody you've
changed a million times alreadyin your life.
Things have happened.
You're no longer the personthat you once were.
At some point you were a littlebaby and everything and things
(23:24):
have changed over your life.
And whenever you get put in anobstacle in your routine, when
an obstacle gets put there, justremember there was an obstacle
put there not too long ago andtoday is still going on.
You know you can.
You can look at it like I'vealready overcome so many hurdles
(23:46):
.
I know I can overcome this onetoo, especially if God is there
as your strength.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, absolutely I think.
I think it can be tough, though, depending on that change, and
I don't know like it's hard to.
It's hard to think aboutbecause you never know what's
going to happen, but certainchanges I think are are easier
to come by, depending on whereyou're at in life, if that makes
(24:17):
sense.
So things, things that I gothrough now as an adult, you
know, in my 40s, I have enoughhindsight I can look back on to
find peace and know and trustthat things are going to be okay
, whereas you know, things thattook place when I was young, you
(24:38):
know, in my 20s, I probablyblew out of proportion.
They probably weren't asoverwhelming as I thought they
were, but in my time and howseasoned I was then or
non-season, I guess you couldsay it changed the way my
reaction was Perspective yeah,correct, perspective is a good
(24:58):
word for it and I think that'sgoing to happen with many people
.
Depending on where you're at inlife, what you've gone through
is going to depend on how you'regoing to react, so certain
people can still be in the samesituation.
Age doesn't necessarily matterhow life has kind of helped you
to grow throughout or if youeven chose to grow and change in
(25:21):
the first place is really goingto have an impact on how things
continue to happen, because weknow in this world there's going
to be trouble.
Right, we were told that that'sa definite.
With that trouble, how are yougoing to react?
Are you going to continue tohave perhaps the same behavior
that you had as a teen or as ayoung adult, or are you going to
(25:45):
grow from the troubles thattook place to handle those
circumstances better as you'vegotten older?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I said this to somebody.
They were in my way.
I'm just going to be honestwith you.
They were in my way.
I couldn't work.
They were in my way and I wasjust standing there and I was
just piddling and I was waitingfor them to finish because they
were pointing in the directionthat I needed to go.
The lady turned around.
She's like oh, I'm sorry, was Iin your way?
(26:18):
How long were you waiting?
Said, ah, no big deal, as longas I got my computer here.
I always got something to do.
She said well, next time justtell me.
And I said, ah, I look at itthe way I've looked at it like
this the Lord will put me wherehe needs me, for whatever reason
.
And so I'll just wait.
I'm just waiting for him tomove you.
Just wait, I'm just waiting forhim to move you.
(26:43):
That's what I said.
But it it opened up aconversation and we'll continue
that conversation, uh, wheneverI see her.
But it just opened up aconversation for that.
And I remember, whenever thiswarehouse closed and I had to do
that whole four hour commutething, uh, I, I didn't know why
and, to be honest with you, Iwas flabbergasted.
I just like I said it knockedme down, knocked me down.
I was having to wake up reallyearly in the morning and just
(27:04):
never getting home at night.
It was just, it was reallyweird.
And then I got to know some ofthe guys at this new warehouse
right and Wes is always be.
Wes where I'm, I always got anevangelistic mindset.
It's just the gift that god hasgiven me.
I don't I reminisce with peopleI don't even know and I I never
(27:25):
meet a stranger kind of aperson, right and uh.
So I was talking to these guys,develop a relationship.
There were and this is allgod's doing, not my doing, but
it was these couple of peoplethat I'm particularly thinking
about are yoked, pierre.
Yoked, okay, yoked is verystrong is what they were.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
They go to the gym.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, jacked, jacked, I am not Okay, I'm just not.
And I'm sure I was grumpybecause, as you could tell, I
had to get up early, not a lotof sleep, stuff like that.
And this one guy, he wastelling me about his marriage
and that he's just going to geta divorce.
(28:10):
I said, what, are you a wimp?
That's what I said.
That's what I said.
I don't know if I was relyingon the strength of God or the
stupidity.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
You did.
Your whole life flashed infront of you.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
No, not when I said it, but when he turned around
and said what I said.
Well, I don't understand whyyou would do that.
You're such a big tough guy andyet you're going to take the
easy way out of this.
You know, just something likethat.
I don't know, don't quote me,okay, but it was something like
that.
I don't know, don't quote me,ok, but it was something like
that.
Then the other guy, at adifferent point, he kind of said
the same thing and I saidyou're scared, aren't you?
(28:49):
He said scared of what I said.
You're just scared, big oldtough guy like you, sitting
there, scared of everything, andyou're just going to sit there
and take this easy way out again.
Both of those marriages I don'tknow that they're still going on
today, but they were going onwhen I left there, because they
both reunited with their wivesand stuff like that and I was
like and and and, honestly, Iwas like that's why you sent me
(29:12):
here.
Okay, all right, I get it now.
Fine, I get it now.
Can we please get the warehouseback towards the other side of
town?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Mission accomplished, we'll be back.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
But you know, the point is we don't know the
reasons why, but we still haveto use the talents and gifts
that God has given us, no matterwhere we're being sent, no
matter what we're doing.
And look, I know that's hard,sometimes it could be a lot, it
could be easier said than done.
I know that's hard, sometimesit could be a lot, it could be
easier said than done.
I share that story with you,not to brag on myself, but just
to share it with you, that ifyou're in that same kind of
(29:45):
circumstance out there, thatmaybe trying to figure out where
you can get more cheese, whereyou can get it, or trying to
figure out how this could be apositive, I didn't know and I
didn't know at the time thatthis was going to happen.
And whenever I said thosethings I certainly didn't know
what I was saying.
(30:06):
But I was in the right place atthe right time for God's
purpose.
And if change has come to youand it's out of your control and
you've done everything you knowyou can possibly do to keep
that routine, then it's not youchanging it, it's something else
(30:27):
changing it, it's an outsidesource.
And if we believe that God isin control of everything.
And if we're going to trustthat God has our best interests
at heart, then let's just goahead and say God, put me where
you need me at the right placeat the right time for your glory
.
Put me where you need me at theright place at the right time
for your glory.
It makes life a lot easier forme.
Now, it doesn't mean I alwaysremember it whenever I'm sitting
(30:47):
in a hospital room or somethinglike that.
You know, with the differentthings that we've just been
through as a family hererecently doesn't mean I always
remember that and it's a loteasier said than applied.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
But it's still something that needs to, that I
need to have my mindset on.
Yep, that's a good word.
Um, I agree, I agree and again,like you say, though, it's
really tough in certain moments.
Um, hospital rooms isdefinitely a big one.
Um, it's just people's sorrowand um, I know, like I went,
there's like a lot of folks thatstand by, like our, our local
stores, and they have likedifferent signs.
(31:26):
You know that they're in need,they're in need of help.
And I want to say it wasglorify, the glorify app, maybe
a week ago or so.
It touched on like compassionversus pity and really made me
think.
Like how many times, like you,you go past someone clearly
struggling, no idea why they'restruggling, but your, your
(31:49):
initial thought is more of apity standpoint you just kind of
feel sorry for them and don'tdo anything about it versus
having a compassion, you know,like jesus did, and seems you're
did, and doing something likesome type of action based off
that compassion that you have.
It doesn't necessarily meangiving them money.
(32:10):
Sometimes you're giving themtime and having a conversation,
learning their story, how theygot there, et cetera.
Sometimes it is, you know,giving them.
You know something that you'rehoping that can help, but
oftentimes you don't know theend result.
So, like you got to witness,you know, at least for a little
bit.
You know those marriagesreconnect and continue.
(32:32):
There's also going to be timeswhere you're put in situations
where you don't know what theend result is going to be, but
you still are in that situationto maybe plant a seed or to
bring hope.
You know personally to thatindividual or to that situation
that maybe you're the one shotthat person has in the hope.
(32:54):
Maybe other people are going todrive by or walk by and ignore
that situation, but you know Godhas you there in hopes that
you're the one that's going to.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
You know, intervene and and try to change the
situation some and showcompassion versus pity well and
I might get this wrong, but I Iheard on k love um that there
was this, this guy.
It's kind of like listening tothe holy spirit now, that nudge
like sometimes, where you justhave a feeling like you need to
(33:23):
go do something.
And this guy was talking aboutum.
He was at work and his boss wasan atheist and he had that
nudge to go invite him to churchand everything in him said this
why, like, he's not going?
Um, you know he's an atheist, Imight get fired if I go and
invite him to church.
(33:43):
But he did it and the bossturned him down and he didn't
understand it.
And fast forward like a fewyears and he is preaching and
after his sermon a guy comes upand he introduces himself and
he's like you know you don'tknow me, but I need to tell you
my story because you're thereason I'm here and he was like,
(34:05):
excuse me, and he was likesomething along the lines of he
was looking for work andsomebody asked him if he'd ever
laid tile and he was like youknow, I did my bathroom once.
Sure, I could use the money.
Yeah, I could, I can lay sometile.
So they had him go to thisman's office and he's like you
came in and I was behind thedesk laying tile when you came
(34:26):
in and invited your boss tochurch and he turned it down.
But I went and it's because ofwhat you said to him.
That is the reason that I'mhere.
And so, if something alongthose lines and it was just
super powerful, because youdon't always know why god's
having you do something like hethought, clearly it was that he
was supposed to invite his bossto church, but his boss had
(34:47):
absolutely nothing to do with it.
It was the man behind the deskthat he couldn't see.
So sometimes, even when wethink it's a failure, when god's
leading us a certain way, itcould be that we just didn't
have the right perspective, soyou never know who's watching or
who's listening.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, I like that.
That was a good one, michelle,it was good on Caleb.
That's true, but yeah, no, thatis good, Pierre.
If we had a commercial breaklike right now, I think would be
a great commercial break, andthen we would come back and kind
of wrap the show up.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
We don't have a commercial break.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
It was a dramatic pause.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
But we can plug, you know.
You can email us atfindinglosingsleep at gmailcom.
You can leave a review, if youlike, over on any of the
listening platforms.
We're on Apple Podcasts, we'reon Spotify, iheartradio, you
name them.
There's a few others I thinkI'm missing, but we're out there
(35:54):
.
So thanks for listening.
If you want to show yoursupport, leave a review, slap us
five stars if you don't mind.
And again, email atfindingfaithlosingasleep at
Gmail.
You can also text us throughone of the listening platforms.
You know, when you go into thesummary of the show or the
episode, it gives you an optionto send us a text If you'd like
to do that as well.
(36:15):
Now back to our regular program.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
That's a change in our podcast.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
A change.
Yeah, hey, and I read up aboutpeople leaving reviews and
everything.
First of all, it only takeslike a minute, not even that.
If you have it just right thereon your iPhone or anything, you
can just next time you stop itfor a little bit, I was going to
say stop at a red light, don'tdo it.
Then Keep driving Both eyes onthe wheel, both hands on the
(36:42):
wheel, but next time you stop,just hit a review.
You know just real quick youcan do that in just a matter of
minutes.
And what it does is it helps getthe podcast out there to other
people.
And we've said it many times,we don't collect any money for
this or anything.
We actually pay money to beable to have this go out to the
world or wherever, just becausewe want to be able to do our
(37:02):
part, to be able to help changepeople's lives, and so that's
how it goes out there, and so ifyou could just leave a review,
let us know.
We would love to hear from youtoo.
Just hey, you guys are doing agood job.
That'd be great, that'd begreat.
But it helps get the podcastout there in front of more eyes
or in more ears and if it'shelped you, hopefully it can
help somebody else as well.
(37:22):
I think about Paul and his ideaof change, and what was Paul
before he became a Christian?
Do you guys know Saul?
He was Saul, and what did he dofor a living?
Speaker 2 (37:35):
He was persecuting.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Christians honestly.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
So, you know, here's one of the weird things about
Paul that I've often wrestledwith at night, which is what
this podcast is about.
He, you know, he was doingGod's will in his mind
beforehand, and he probably wasdoing God's will for a long time
in his life and at some pointmaybe he started denying what
his heart was feeling.
I don't know, I don't know whyhe continued to do the things he
(38:02):
did, other than he was verycomfortable in his skin and he
knew what his routine was and heknew what the right thing to do
was, and that was to arrestChristians, persecute Christians
, to quit letting thisChristianity spread.
That was his job as a what washe?
(38:23):
A Jewish Pharisee kind of guy,you know, a Roman kind of Jewish
Pharisee guy.
That's what his job was, and itdoesn't feel like he liked
change all that much, you know,true.
And then he got hit on the roadto Damascus with that big,
bright light and his, his lifechanged and Jesus spoke to him,
(38:44):
saw, saw.
Why are you persecuting me?
You know those kind of thingsand you could read that in the
book of acts.
But I just think about himwrestling now with Christianity
and with his old self and allthe things that he knew was
right.
I think about how hard it wasfor me to walk in the faith
(39:05):
after all the old habits that Iused to have walking in this
world so hard.
And it's hard for people tocome out of the world into faith
.
But you know, there are somepeople who struggle with
different religions too.
Maybe they were raised.
(39:26):
I don't know, mormon Catholic.
Maybe they were raisedChristian.
They're going to something.
Maybe they were raised Muslimand there's all these different,
you know, habits that peoplehave and now they're starting to
find out something new andthat's hard to do.
That's really hard and I thinkabout Paul doing that.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, it's hard for anyone and you have it.
Like you mentioned, you have itin different religions.
You have some Christians thatchange you know where.
They don't believe becausesomething took place in their
lives.
You have some that wereatheists or agn now do believe
because something changed inyour life, and so I think that's
(40:08):
a good reminder to just becareful.
I guess I'm not sure if becareful is what I'm looking for,
but just be cautious that lifedoesn't toss you lemons to the
point where you're trying tomake apple juice.
It's going to be tough.
Everyone goes through things.
(40:29):
We've all gone through things,from health-wise to death, to
job stuff and financialobligation.
We've all gone through things.
But don't let it change you forthe for the worst, I guess would
be the thing, because sometimesthat happens, like you let
tragedy, um, or something awfuljust change you completely to
(40:53):
where you're.
You're unidentifiable as theperson you used to be, and it's
not for the good.
Um, it's different to bechanged for the good and you
know, be the light, you know andbe love versus changing and
becoming that darkness and thathate.
I think that's a gooddecipheral and kind of the
changes in our opinion from Godversus not from God.
(41:16):
So if you feel yourselfchanging, you know for the worse
that change may not be a changefrom God and I recommend you
pray about it, get into yourword, get into your Bible or get
into folks you trust.
Sometimes it's those trustedvoices that can help you out of
situations as well.
But don't let change ruin yourgoodness, your light, your joy
(41:43):
and things along those lines.
Easier said than done, I'm sure, in certain situations, but
everyone's been through thosevalley-type moments, so make
sure you're changing for thegood.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Sometimes we like to hold on to things, sometimes
just because it's our comfortzone, it's what we know.
The fear of the unknown sticksin there and it's a lot easier
to just stay with what you knowversus jumping out and taking
the chance and changing, eventhough it could be so much
better.
We like to stay stuck sometimes.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
I think it's just human nature and don't get down
on yourself either human natureand don't get down on yourself
either If you fail at continuingto carry your joy with you when
things change or you're tryingto make and create new habits.
Don't get down on yourself ifyou fail once or twice.
I'm not saying to continue totry to fail or that you want to
(42:37):
fail, but don't be too hard onyourself either to the point to
where you stop trying to changeor you stop trying to continue
being your old self into thisdifferent environment that
you're having to go into.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, I agree and I think, like you mentioned, with
the conversation you had withthe gentleman and divorce, like
sometimes things are going to behard, it doesn't mean you give
up, it doesn't mean you quit onthings that get difficult, so
just keep that in mind as well.
But I also wonder, like what ifone of them was supposed to
(43:12):
change Wes and you came in andyou, I won't go down that road,
I won't?
Speaker 1 (43:18):
go down that road.
See when you got that thoughtseriously, while you were
talking about what you weresaying, I was like, just think
if one of those wives had prayedfor their husband and the
divorce and everything.
And then I come walking intothe picture.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
West said, not today.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
And once again, that is not to brag on anything about
me, not one bit, and I hope ourlisteners know that.
Thinking back to Paul and Idon't know that there was a
tougher dude on himself thanPaul was, and I'm so glad that
he was an open book and inRomans 7, he just talks about
(43:58):
his old self wrestling with thelaw and all the different things
that were in the law the OldTestament, I guess we could say
and trying to figure out thisnew way of life.
And he was doing this so peoplewould understand his struggles
and not beat themselves up ifthey were struggling themselves
(44:19):
with making changes.
Right, yeah?
And he says in verse 14, for weknow that the law or the old
way is spiritual, but I am ofthe flesh sold into bondage to
sin.
For that which I am doing, Idon't understand.
I'm not practicing what I wouldlike to do, but I am doing the
very thing I hate to do.
(44:40):
But if I do the very thing I donot wish to do, but I am doing
the very thing I hate to do.
But if I do the very thing I donot wish to do, I agree with
the law, confessing that it isgood.
So now no longer am I the onedoing it, but sin that dwells in
me, isn't that weird.
Like he says, I ain't evendoing it, it's just an old habit
.
It's just sin dwelling in medoing it.
I can't stop it.
It just feels like he's just sofrustrated.
(45:03):
Right, for I know that nothinggood dwells in me that is in my
flesh, for the wishing ispresent in me, but the doing of
good is not.
What a guy he knew.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
I mean, and there's people right now, like you know
how many years ago this was thatPaul wrote this to the Romans
there's people today 2025, thatare facing those same struggles,
like they're doing things theydo not want to do and it feels
uncontrollable, controllable.
So just note that.
(45:39):
You know these types ofstruggles have happened, you
know along the way, and I thinkrecognizing that is a good first
step, right Like recognizing Idon't want to do this.
You know, I got to figure out away to no longer do it because
I don't want to do it, so that'sa good first step.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Yeah, he's not in denial, he's past the denial
step.
You know he understands whathe's doing.
Verse 19, that's Romans,chapter 7, verse 19.
For the good that I wish, I donot do, but I practice the very
evil that I do not wish.
But if I'm doing the very thingI do not wish, I am no longer
the one doing it, but sin thatdwells in me.
(46:19):
I find, then, the principlethat evil is present in me, the
one who wishes to do good, for Ijoyfully concur with the law of
God in the inner man, but I seea different law in the members
of my body, waging war againstthe law of my mind and making me
a prisoner of the law of sinwhich is in my members.
Wretched man that I am, whowill set me free from the body
(46:43):
of this death?
Thanks be to God, through JesusChrist, our Lord.
So then, on the one hand, Imyself, with my mind, am serving
the law of God, but on theother, with my flesh, the law of
sin.
Boy Paul, you just quit beatingyourself up.
And then he focuses right therein chapter 8, verse 1, the very
next verse.
(47:04):
There is now, therefore, nocondemnation for those who are
in Christ.
Jesus Isn't that beautiful.
He just gets done beatinghimself up over and over again,
talking about he's just a sinfulman, a wretched man that I am,
and he just feels so bad abouthimself standing before God and
doing the things he doesn't wantto do, and then he reminds
(47:27):
everybody who's reading thisthat there is no condemnation
for people who have clothedthemselves with Christ, and
that's our eternal only hope.
And that's what we really haveto remember is there are some
people that are struggling withso many things out there that
don't want to, that just don'twant to.
(47:47):
They don't have that hope, andfor me to give them that hope is
my job, and that's what we comehere to this podcast for,
that's what we walk around inour shoes for, that's what we
live our lives for, and I hopethat those are encouraging words
, not from me, but from Paul,the Apostle, paul, who desires
(48:09):
all men everywhere to hear thesewords, and they can know that
struggle that he had.
And if we call him an apostle,if we say he's Paul and we hold
him in high esteem, then youshould hold yourself in high
esteem too, because if he canstruggle with things, you can
too, as long as you're trying todo the right thing, like he was
(48:29):
, yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
I can, I do.
It's a good reminder.
I mean all Paul's letters and Iwon't go through it all, but I
even wrote like AI is pretty bigright now, I'm sure you know
that, but I think it wasyesterday Like I just typed in
AI like what would a letter fromPaul?
(48:51):
So it's crazy, we're talkingabout Paul today what would a
letter from Paul to the worldtoday look like?
And it came, yeah, a pretty,pretty long thing.
I'll send it to you and it'spretty neat.
It's kind of you kind of usesome of the same terminology
that you know.
Ai tried to fit it into whatPaul would say and I can
actually, you know, picture thatbeing in the Bible.
(49:12):
To some extent.
It's pretty cool.
I know it's not, it's not inthe Bible, it's just AI, but
just the thought process of it.
It still resonates, you know,with what happens today.
The thought process of it.
It still resonates with whathappens today.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
That was my closing thought.
Do you guys have anything elseto add?
Or is that putting a nicelittle bow on things?
Speaker 2 (49:32):
It was good to get back behind the mic.
I know we've been out for a bit.
Again a lot of change has beentaking place in our household.
Good to get back.
Hopefully you know these arelistening.
Thanks for listening.
Yes, we got a bunch of recentGerman listeners, so thank you
(49:52):
to Germany.
If you leave a review, maybetry to translate it in English
because I probably won't be ableto read it in German, but
thanks to those listeninganywhere, in your cars, in your
homes, at work, we trulyappreciate you allowing us into
your lives a little bit.
Obviously, we just pray andhope that it's helpful as we
talk through some of our ownstruggles, opportunities, joys,
(50:15):
wins, changes in our lives thatyou can also see in yourself.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
We've got a lot going on outside right now.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Hey, I can hear it and we will go ahead and we will
wrap it up on the sirens in thebackground.
They're coming after you guys.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
We had somebody standing outside of our house a
second ago, so it was a littleunsettling, but I don't know
what's going on.
We live in a great neighborhoodso it was highly unusual.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Yeah, well, okay.
Well, we'll let you guys checkthat out and I'll just remind
the listeners to pray for us,just like we pray for you.
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