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October 23, 2024 52 mins

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Join me in a transformative conversation with Kyle Goodknight, a veteran healthcare professional with over three decades of experience as a respiratory therapist and paramedic. We tackle the critical issues of stress and burnout that first responders face, shedding light on the vital role mental health support plays in sustaining their demanding careers. Kyle opens up about his personal experiences, underscoring the significance of mental health awareness and the need for equipping first responders with the right tools and resources for a fulfilling career.

We confront the often-unspoken emotional toll that repeated exposure to trauma takes on first responders and medical professionals. It's not just the major incidents that leave a mark, but the accumulation of experiences that can push individuals to a breaking point. Through personal stories, we reveal how professional stressors seep into personal lives, affecting family dynamics and highlighting the need for open communication. Our discussion extends to understanding how Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) shape responses to trauma, particularly in close-knit communities where first responders might know victims personally.

Our conversation evolves into normalizing mental health conversations, encouraging first responders to embrace mental health care as essential. I share my personal journey, emphasizing the importance of being open about mental health struggles and the various treatment options available, like EMDR or ketamine therapy. We stress the importance of cultural competency in therapy and the benefits of virtual counseling, offering privacy and accessibility. This episode is a heartfelt call to action for first responders to seek the right therapeutic path, ensuring their well-being and that of their families.

Go and listen to Kyle's podcast at: https://podcast.kylegoodknight.com/

His full podcast can be found at www.kylegoodknight.com

For the ACES test, click here

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Episode Transcript

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Announcer (00:03):
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy
.
A proud member of thePsychCraft Network, the goal of
this podcast is to demystifytherapy, what can happen in
therapy and the wide array ofconversations you can have in
and about therapy Throughpersonal experiences.
Guests will talk about therapy,their experiences with it and

(00:24):
how psychology and therapy arepresent in many places in their
lives, with lots of authenticityand a touch of humor.
Here is your host, steve Bisson.

Steve Bisson (00:38):
Bonjour et bienvenue à mon balado.
Thank you and welcome to thepodcast.
I think I've done that onebefore, but hey, you can
rehearse your French if you wantto.
This is episode 175.
If you haven't listened toepisode 174, please go back and
listen to it.
Stephanie Cohen was an amazingguest overcoming the fear of
dogs her book.
I really read it.
I think it's wonderful.
If you have anyone who needsthat book, please go get it.

(00:59):
It's available everywhere.
So I hope that you get a chanceto look at that book.
But episode 175 will be withKyle Goodnight.
I'm going back to firstresponder stuff again because I
really enjoy it.
Kyle, among other things, is apodcast person.
He does voiceovers.
But more importantly, he servedI believe he was a paramedic

(01:21):
and he's still a paramedic fromwhat I understand and he worked
with a lot of people with issuesin the first responder world
and he's realized that hisstress, burnout and decreased
job performance led him to acertain place where he needed to
do more treatment.
So I'm pretty sure he's goingto share that.
We're going to talk about,hopefully, his other work.
I think we'll talk about trauma, but you know I want to stay
away from just talking abouttrauma for first responders

(01:43):
because there's so much more todo, but we talk about the tools
to sustain a great career.
So here is the interview, aftera short word from freeai
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(02:05):
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(02:26):
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(02:47):
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(03:29):
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(03:50):
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Well, hi everyone and welcome tothis episode.
What's funny is that I met Kyleon his podcast a couple weeks

(04:10):
ago and we have this exchangenow that I've been on his
podcast and he's going to be onmine.
So it's very exciting to me.
Because I don't want to do hiswhole introduction, I'll let him
introduce himself.
But we've had informalconversations and then we had a
formal conversation and we canstop ourselves from talking.

(04:31):
So, kyle, good night.
Welcome to Finding your WayThrough Therapy.

Kyle Goodknight (04:35):
Thank you so much, steve, for having me.
I appreciate it and it was anabsolute joy to have you on my
podcast and talk about the stuffwe talked about and we're just
going to somewhat continue theconversation.
But, um, you know, in general,just because you and I both
through our pre discussion andthe times we met so far, we, we,
we know there's a gap, we knowthere's a, there's an emptiness

(04:56):
of of this type of thing in inour industry, healthcare and
first responder world and, uh,it doesn't have to be that way.
We can head it face on and comeout on the better side and
hopefully get people educatedabout stuff.
And that's the main thing youknow.
Hopefully we'll talk abouttoday is just the different
forms.
But just to introduce myself,my name is Kyle Goodnight.
I'm 30 year.

(05:18):
In healthcare field, I was arespiratory therapist for about
the first 10 or 12 years of mycareer and then I decided to
take the jump and go intoparamedic and become a paramedic
and got into that.
Love the schedule, 24 hours on,48 hours off, and never look
back at doing respiratoryanymore.
I stayed.
I still have my licensure asrespiratory therapist.
I did go into medical sales fora while and sell respiratory

(05:42):
therapy and EMS products.
So I've never been really toofar out of either career.
But but yeah, that's who I am.
I'm, you know.
So I've got that background ofof inside the hospital and all
the stuff we see at level onetrauma centers and ICUs and out
of hospital stuff.
So I'm also an educator.
I'm one of our six educatorsthat goes around the month every

(06:05):
month and trains our departmentand I've gotten a lot of
experience doing that and lovethat, love that part of it and
that's going to be but we'lltalk more about that later.
But that's me in a nutshell.

(06:29):
And I'm also a voiceover actor,you know, a podcaster.
I mean, there's there's acouple of things I I just got
done painting, painting my newstudio behind that wall.
I've got a new studio that'scoming, that that is going to be
very podcast oriented.
And so I'm also in constructionand do handyman stuff.
My whole life, as long as I'vebeen old enough to swing a

(06:49):
hammer, I've been doingconstruction stuff.
So I kind of do a little bit ofeverything.
There's never a dull momentwith me.
I barely I don't know what itmeans to sit down and just chill
.

Steve Bisson (06:59):
And you forgot the most important part A big fan
of the Ohio State.

Kyle Goodknight (07:03):
The Ohio State University of Buckeyes, yeah.

Steve Bisson (07:06):
That's why I mentioned that.
We had a fun conversation.
You went to a game andeverything else.
So I love college football, soI'd like to mention that too.

Kyle Goodknight (07:14):
Yeah, this weekend was fun, man.
That Georgia-Alabama game wascrazy and that catches.
But did you see any of thehighlights from the Ohio State
game?
Jeremiah Smith catching twopasses in a row with one hand
Without like just boop, okay,I'll put this in my arm Crazy.

Steve Bisson (07:29):
I was not able to watch all the games live
Saturday, but I saw thehighlights.
I did definitely watch Alabamaand Georgia and I went on my.
It was funny because I watchedit to the half.
I was at my girlfriend's houseand her parents were there and
I'm like, oh, I'm going to gohome, I'm just tired, I get home
, I'm like what?
The hell happened and thenwatch like one pass after

(07:49):
another completed for like 80yards.
Every single time I'm like whatis going on?

Kyle Goodknight (07:54):
I never thought Georgia would come back like
they did.

Steve Bisson (07:59):
But anyway, we'll digress because I'll talk about
football forever.
Yeah, we, because this is funfootball and watching my
Patriots just crumble right nowis just very difficult, yeah,
and then watch Buffalo come downto earth.
Last night was also very nice.
But anyway you know, since thispodcast is going to probably
play in about three or fourweeks from when we're recording.

Kyle Goodknight (08:18):
Yeah, it'll be a long time.
People are going to be likewhat the hell are you talking?

Steve Bisson (08:21):
about Buffalo's like only lost one game.

Kyle Goodknight (08:35):
Yeah, absolutely, and I started my
therapy path early on.
Um, I remember being in collegeand you know breaking up with a
girlfriend and not, you know,getting bad advice from friends,
you know, and, and so I, youknow, in college you have these
free sessions and you may bewith a grad student or whatever,
but it's, it's, it's a thirdparty.

(08:55):
You know they're not going tobe.
You know, they know they're notgoing to be, you know, one
sided or what have you.
So my, my therapy, you know,progression started very early
for me.
I didn't know, you know, Ididn't know of the first thing I
remember of therapy.
When I was a freshman in highschool, my mom and dad were
facing a divorce and they endedup fixing it and they went to

(09:16):
therapy, but they didn't talkmuch about it.
So I was.
I did know that there wassomething out there, before I
got into college that I'm likewell, maybe subconsciously, I'm
like, well, mom and dad staytogether, therapy may be good,
you know, what have you?
So?
So I have never been ashamed ofdoing it.
I've never.
You know, when I, it's usuallywhen I'm backed up against the
wall, like it's for sure, likeit's not something that I think

(09:37):
of any.
Well, I used to not think of itas a therapeutic or
preventative measure.
I always thought about it asokay.
Once I get to crisis, I'll askfor help.
And unfortunately, you know mypossible divorce.
I've faced divorce once and ittook us two years to correct it
and nothing happened until wegot good counseling and it

(09:57):
wasn't.
They weren't shrinking ourheads, they just helped us think
of things a little bitdifferently, help us think of
things in a different light,help me understand her, help her
understand me.
I remember one time he asked mea question during our couples
therapy and our couple sessionsand I answered it and she was
like whoa, she got all pissedoff and he's like hold on, jen,

(10:18):
hold on, jen, let me interpretKyleese, you know.
So he's like what I think thisman is trying to say is this.
And I'm like yes, that'sexactly what I was trying to say
.
So it's, it's.
Sometimes it's just you don'tknow how to get the words out
properly, to understand ityourself or have someone else
understand you, and it's andit's good to have that third
party to to like okay, so.
So let me unpackage that alittle bit and let's talk about

(10:40):
the different parts of what youjust said and so I've never been
opposed to it.
You know, I actually, when I hadmy blind side is what I call it
when I was in, you know, as arespiratory therapist, I've seen
crazy things in the hospitalsetting, in the ER level one,
trauma centers and and ICUs thesickest of the sick just seen
some crazy stuff, right.
And that was the first 10 yearsof my my career.

(11:02):
And then I became a full-timeparamedic and in the, you know,
in the 911 system and saw morecrazy stuff.
And it wasn't until the 20thyear of being in healthcare
where I have what they call myblind.
I call it my blind side.
I had no clue that this day wasgoing to happen, I had no clue
how it was going to affect meand it just.

(11:22):
It sent me the first one, whichwas about 30 days prior to the
one that really sent me down apath, but it was all built up
from the first one.
It was just one of those thingswhere I didn't realize there
was things going on until thesecond one hit.
And then, when the second onehit, I was very calm, I was very
precise.
I called my mentor up and I saidhey, I'm going to go do this.

(11:43):
And she's she's like no, you, Idon't want you going knocking
door to door in your township tomake sure everybody's alive.
And it because it was a carbonmonoxide incident and I thought
everybody was dead After myshift.
We had so many carbon monoxideruns.
I'm like everybody's dead in mytownship and those are the
words I was using with my mentor.
And she's like listen, are yousafe?
I'm like yeah, I'm safe, I'mfine.

(12:04):
I'm like I just need to go backto work and help and help
people.
And she's like you're talkingthat.
That's not what normal peoplesay, kyle.
They're not just going to godoor to door in a large entire
you know township and and expectthat that's normal.
You know you're, it's out inthe country, you're gonna get

(12:28):
shot to be.
He meet you with the shotgun,like what are you doing here?
I'm just trying to make sureyou're alive, sir.
But so she came over to thehouse.
We both agreed that I shouldprobably get a little bit more
advanced help.
And I'm like yeah, I'm totallydown with that.
I don't feel right.
I don't feel good about the wayI feel right now.
It wasn't suicidal or anythinglike that at that point in time.
I don't believe I've ever beentruly suicidal, but it's one of
those things where those kindsof things enter your mind when
you're going through stuff andyou know, even if it's just a
blip, you need to be able tounpackage that and be able to

(12:49):
understand that.
You need to be open about it,and that's my biggest message to
people now is let's normalizethis conversation.
Let's raise our hand.
Let's try to raise our handbefore we have crisis.
But when you're in crisis, forsure, like, please raise your
hand.
But before crisis, if you cando some preventative measures or
some things that help youunpackage things better, because

(13:10):
it's not all about what we see.
That's the biggestmisconception too.
Well, you trained for this.
Well, why should this affectyou?
You trained for this?
Absolutely not.
I trained to help you in themoment.
I didn't train for theaftermath of what I was going to
be dealing with, right, andit's one of those things where,
no, we didn't train for that, wedon't train for that.

(13:30):
We need to train for that.
It has to be something thatgets put into the education
system and it has to benormalized.
We I've ever been was that daythat I called my mentor and I
said, jenny, I don't feel right,I don't know what's going on
with me, but I need help.

(13:50):
I don't feel.
I look back at that time and Iwas.
That was probably the toughestI've ever been, and I was damn
tough too through my divorce, mypossible divorce.
I was really strong throughthat too, for my kids, for my
wife, so I could show that Icould be different.
And it was, and I was nevertougher than that day when I
called my mentor to say, hey, Idon't know what's going on and I

(14:12):
need help.

Steve Bisson (14:13):
You know, a common thread with everyone that I've
ever talked to is that it wasthe hardest thing for them to do
to reach out and ask for help,whether it's their mentor or
finding a therapist or what haveyou.
So that's a common thread and Ithink you brought up so many
good points that I want to talkabout because, at the end of the
day, I think that it's usuallynot the event that causes people
like people say what eventcaused you to be in therapy?

(14:36):
No, it's an accumulation ofevents.
It's very rare because ithappened.
You know that I see peopleright after the Boston Marathon
bombings.
Of course I did, but usually itwas a succession of different
things and not just one singularthing.
That really affects firstresponders.
I think part of the stigma isthat people wait till they have
their breaking point.

Kyle Goodknight (14:56):
Yeah, and I think that's the biggest stigma
personally.
Yeah, and that's exactly whathappened to me.
I had an incident one timewhere someone I'm in the ER and
someone grabs my back.
It that's that's exactly whathappened to me.
I I had an incident one timewhere someone I'm in the ER and
someone grabs my back.
It's like you need to leave.
And I'm like, wait, what?
No, I'm the airway guy.
I'm like I'm this little kid'sairway right now.
And they're like, no, you haveto leave.
This kid looks just like Carter, my Carter's, my son.

(15:18):
And I'm like, yeah, I know.
And they're like you can't behere.
I'm like, no, I'm his best.
I mean, like I like there's noother therapist in the room,
we'd have to call a therapistdown Like no, I'm doing it.
And and 100%, it was the sameage, same timeframe, drowning
victim, and you know, and it waseverything I could do in the

(15:38):
moment I did my job.
After the moment it was, I hadto go find a quiet spot.
It's probably one of the onlytimes that I broke down on duty
Like I just I needed like 20minutes to myself just to grieve
, right, because it was tooclose to home, and that's.
I think that's another thing toois we, as first responders and
medical professionals.

(15:59):
We see stuff that reminds us ofgrief, our real life, and
that's when it can really messyou up.
And and to understand how topackage that we can't we.
We just we don't know how, wedon't get trained, we don't get
taught how to do that and wehave to find out the hard way.
When our backs up against thewall and someone's like you're
not acting right, you're notbeing, you know you're looking

(16:20):
at a divorce because you'rebeing an asshole, because you
don't know how to, you don'tknow how to deal with stuff and
just know that everything thatwe do, yes, we serve our
community, we serve our fellowman and woman.
That's who we are and it'singrained in us.
But we have to accept the factthat what we see affects us, and
it's not just what we see inthe incident at the hospital or

(16:43):
the scene.
It's also the way that ourfamily is left behind, sometimes
by my duty days and whereeverything always breaks when
I'm on duty and I just can'tleave to come home and get you
out of the garage.
You know like.
You have to, like you have tohave some communication of who
can help when I'm not there, youknow, or who can, who can help
me when you're not here, becausemy wife's a medical

(17:04):
professional as well and there'stimes when she's not here, she
me when you're not here, becausemy wife's a medical
professional as well, andthere's times when she's not
here.
She worked night shift for yearswhen we were raising our kids
and like, wake up in the middleof the night this kid's crying.
I'm like I'm just the dude.
I'm like the baby needs theboob, but the boob's at the work

(17:24):
, you know.
And I'm like, I'm like if, ifanybody listened in this right
now that has has had any type ofdaydreams, any type of flashes.
I call them flashes too, not somuch daydreams, but I'll see
someone and it'll instantlyremind me of somebody from 10
years ago and that's a flash.
That's not a positive thing,you know.
So if you have flashes, if youhave any type of doubt, if you

(17:48):
have any type of remorse afterthe fact, you know, you know it
and everybody, you're you're,you're human.
The brain is a human productand it's not meant to take every
.
All the stuff that we see, allthe stuff we go through, whether
it's at the scene, at thehospital, or in our family life,
in our own personal life.
It's not meant to understand it, and the only way to understand

(18:10):
it is to talk about it and tounderstand that there's other
things out there.

Steve Bisson (18:16):
Right and I think that that's not always what you
see.
You're right.
You know, I had someonerecently tell me that they went
to the same exact area, thatthey had a pretty horrific scene
, we'll say five years ago, andthen they went back for another
horrific scene and it broughtback all what happened five
years ago.
And that doesn't mean thatshe's like broken in my opinion,

(18:37):
but it's just normalizing.
Yeah, human.
You know I'm a therapist.
They teach us about vicarioustrauma, but the bottom line is
we're all going to have it and Iknow it's a different type of
stuff.
So I want to mention vicarioustrauma, because that's what that
is sometimes.
Here's the story I want to share, because this is a true story.
At one point, when my daughterwas about nine months old, I was

(18:59):
asked to go to see someone whohad a SID and I had to go to the
ER.
I was asked because of myspecialty with first responders
and I was sitting therelistening to them talk about the
SID of their seven month old.
Six month old wasn't quite thesame age.
I'm a human right.
Do you think that fucked me upa little bit?
Because of my own kid?
Of course it did, so.

(19:20):
I think that that's what peopledon't normalize, even first
responders in general, and Ithink that it's realizing that
it's not only what you see butit's also how it affects you in
the long term.

Kyle Goodknight (19:31):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and you don't know what
that long term means.
Is that long term a month fromnow, or is it seven years from
now, or is it 20?
You know, I was 20 years inbefore I hit my wall, you know,
and it and it was.
It was very, very it was alocal.
My daughter knew, you know, thelittle girl and it was just.

(19:53):
It was horrible, you know, andand just unfathomable.
And then fast forward 30 daysand we have more incidences of a
carbon monoxide issue and cometo find out.
One of the things that I learnedabout about a year ago was
something called the ACEs score,and if you've listened to any
of my podcasts, I pretty muchbring it up almost every episode
because I think it's thatimportant, because the ACEs

(20:15):
score is adverse childhoodencounters and basically
anything that happens from zeroto 18, you have to count those
years and it's a set of 10questions and if you answer yes
to any of those questions, it'sjust one point and then, when
you add up your points, you havean ACEs score.
Well, I'm an ACEs of six andyou know I watched my sister

(20:35):
overdose when I was 10 years old.
That's not normal, right?
Like my, my father was analcoholic prior to me being born
, but I didn't know him as analcoholic.
But you, you know, my sistergave me the my sister actually.
I'm going to have dinnertonight with.
She's in from out of town andso you know she's still alive.
She didn't die, thank God, yeah, thank God, but it was
something that affected me.

(20:55):
So do I go into an overdosesituation and think of that?
Maybe has it affected me, notto this point.
There could be a day where Iwalk in and it's the same kind
of house, it's the same in thekitchen, on the floor in front
of the sink, and her friends aretrying to wake her up.
You know, maybe that's what Isee and it sends a trigger like,
oh, you need to go talk aboutthis.
Maybe it's just me talkingabout it right now.

(21:17):
Maybe this is all I need and tounderstand that trauma from
when I was a kid.
But the ACEs score is somethingthat you have to understand
what it is, what it means andwhat it does to you.
Because the big thing thathappened to me when I was in Cub
Scouts, I had a Cub Scout whowas the life of the party.
He was the ham of the group andhe succumbed to carbon monoxide

(21:37):
to the point where he didn'tdie.
But he was severely mental andphysically disabled afterwards
and I remember seeing him as alively individual.
And I remember seeing him as alively individual and I remember
seeing him at the Cub Scouts inthe wheelchair, not being able
to sit up and even understandwho we were, severely brain
damaged right and from carbonmonoxide.

(22:00):
Well, that was a traumaticincident.
I didn't see it happen.
It was vicarious because I justsaw the aftermath of it.
It wasn't something I saw withmy own eyes that night when they
pulled him out of the house.
I didn't see that part of itthat I would have as a first
responder and I have as a firstresponder.
But it's one of those thingswhen I had I finally had I

(22:21):
shouldn't say finally, becauseI'd had carbon monoxide
incidences in my career but thisone was different.
I got out of the truck and Iknew somebody that called 911.
They met me at the back of thetruck.
Hey, kyle, go in and help.
Firefighters in there helpingright now, come to find out.
My daughter knew the little girlthat was in the home.
I came home from the debriefingand my daughter's crying in the

(22:42):
kitchen and I'm like, oh my God, baby, what's up?
And she didn't know where I was.
But she saw me in uniform andshe's like my friend and her
family just died and I'm like,oh baby, I'm so sorry.
And she saw the look on my face.
She saw me in uniform and shewas like, oh my God, oh my God,
you were there.
And I'm like, yeah, babe, Ican't talk about it.
And she's like, why didn't yousave him, dad?

(23:03):
You know, and it was thatbreaks your heart.
That that's the worst.
You know, I get, I get it.
I mean, I mean I'm I.
That was part of the reason whyI had my downfall in my blind
side.
I get emotional about itbecause it's OK to get emotional
about it, correct, it was, it's.
I grieve for that family.
My friends were friends withthat family.

(23:23):
I didn't know it until laterwhen I went to the funeral with
my daughter to support her.
You know my daughter wasfriends with her, with some of
that group it was.
They were a handyman, they werea family of four with dogs,
like it was just like, oh my God, this is way too much and it
was just an overload.
You know we talk about the dripsin the cup.
You know every incident that wehave, whether it's family,

(23:45):
whether it's on scene, whetherit's, you know, whatever,
whatever bad happens to us inlife we hear about in life.
It's a drip in the cup right,or a drip in the bowl, drip in
the pool Some people's arebigger than others.
Well, this was a freakingdownpour into my cup, you know
that day and it was thebeginning of my downfall.
I'm looking back on it now.

(24:05):
I was showing signs andsymptoms of PTSD.
I was absolutely 100%, havingnightmares, all that stuff.
The good news is is I couldn'tqualify for PTSD because I
actually had another incidentwithin a 30 day period that
really sent me down the spiral,and that's when I came home from
work that day and said, hey, Ineed help.
So I never actually gotdiagnosed with PTSD, but I was
right up to the to the line ofit.

Steve Bisson (24:26):
Right and there's so many things I want to say to
that.
First of all, sorry, becausethat's tough and it's one of
those things I was asked onlocal TV here in Boston,
massachusetts, someone I gotinterviewed after there was
someone who was found similarsituation.
It was a it wasn't poisoningbut it was you know carbon
monoxide thing, but it was, um,it wasn't poisoning but it was
you know carbon monoxide thing,but it was a small town and the

(24:50):
responders knew the family.
And one of the things that Ikind of sit like they don't
teach you this in any schoolthat when you know if I go, if
you go to Boston, there's a goodchance you don't know everyone
in Boston.
Actually, I'm pretty sure noone knows everyone in Boston, so
you get to these calls andyou're not so attached.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure no oneknows everyone in Boston, so you
get to these calls and you'renot so attached.
But I think that when you're ina smaller town you grew up

(25:10):
around there or what have youthere's an impact that people do
not understand that affects thefirst responders.
And you know I'm in a smalltown out here in what I call
central Massachusetts and I knowsome of them.
Go to calls like oh, you know,I'm a local firefighter, I grew
up in Northbridge all my lifeand I went on a call where
someone passed away and I knewthem because of X, y, z and I'm

(25:31):
trying to keep it as vague as Ipossibly can here and not naming
the real town and that messesyou up.
I think that that's nothing tolike.
You need to reflect on thatwhen you don't go to these calls
.
The other thing, too, is I'mgoing to attach the aces onto
this podcast.
I'm going to put it in the shownotes, because the aces is
something I talk about when I doCIT trainings for police

(25:53):
officers and what I do is,instead of reading the questions
or talking about how people areaffected by that, I'm like here
are the 10 questions, you lookat them and I leave a silence
about two to three minutes and Ican see them kind of like write
them down and you know, one ofthe things that I feel is that
and again, this is justexperience that I have is that
those ACEs do affect if peoplego into the helping field.

(26:15):
I know it sounds strange.

Kyle Goodknight (26:19):
No, it doesn't.
It's very correlated because ifyou have a high ACEs score,
which is four or more, right iswhat they consider a high ACEs
score and a lot of the higherpeople.
Well, and here I'll sharesomething, I was at a lecture.
I was at a mental healthlecture last April and one of

(26:40):
the company called Save aWarrior was there to speak they
were a second speaker on the daywas there to speak, they were a
second speaker on the day, andthey use the ACEs score as like
that is the first thing they dobefore you can come into their
program.
Right, they have to know thatand they have someone that
unpacks it for them when they doit.
But one of the things that theysaid and I can't remember the

(27:00):
gentleman's name who spoke, buthe said that the average ACEs
score of incarceratedindividuals is seven out of 10.
So anything above four is bad,right, is, is, is is things you
have to unpack, Right.
So what they found out throughover twenty, eight hundred
people or so that have come intotheir program mostly first

(27:21):
responders, nurses, veteransGuess what their ACEs score.
Average ACEs score was Seven,seven.

Steve Bisson (27:30):
And it's like wait a second.
Sorry, I knew the answer.
I should have gone.
Oh gee, I don't know.
Kyle, tell me.

Kyle Goodknight (27:34):
No, I'm okay with that, but it's like wait a
second, wait, wait, wait, wait.
So we have, and I'm a six, soit's like, oh, my goodness, you
know like, yeah, and we're outhere helping people, we're
trying to help people, so wehave to help ourselves, help
people, and we have to be.
You know, if we're not therefor ourselves, how in the world
can we be there for other people?

(27:55):
Period, whether that's ourcoworkers or whether that's the
community.

Steve Bisson (28:00):
Or our family.

Kyle Goodknight (28:01):
Our family Right.

Steve Bisson (28:07):
Right, let's not forget about that too, because
you said it yourself and I youknow.
The other part that I didn'tget to touch on just yet is a
lot of people like well, it mustbe the job that makes you go to
therapy.
Well, you said, you know,you're one off, two off, one on,
two off, that's your schedule.
Yep, people who don't work inthat field do not understand the
impact on the family, right, donot understand the stressors
that goes with that, and peopleare like, oh, because they saw

(28:32):
stuff.
No, it doesn't have to alwaysbe trauma.
I'm so sick of this trauma thing, sometimes Right At the end of
the day, what I've, what I'vetold people like you know.
I was listening to adocumentary and I, I wish, I
wish I could remember the name.
But they were saying do youknow how many Christmases I miss
?
You know how many?

Kyle Goodknight (28:43):
Thanksgivings I miss.
I miss Thanksgiving, christmasand New Year's this year I miss.
I'm not even going to be there.

Steve Bisson (28:49):
And you know that may seem trivial when I say it
that way, but when you've missed14 of the 17 birthdays of your
kid, how?

Announcer (28:59):
do you feel, you know ?

Steve Bisson (29:00):
and that's not about Right Trauma.
It's about how the firstresponder job affects you even.

Kyle Goodknight (29:07):
Well, and you know, and to piggyback on that,
on that, I've got a story, youknow, and I don't think I've, I
don't think I've shared thisstory on any podcast ever,
exclusive, exclusive.
Let me get my.

Steve Bisson (29:19):
I wish I had my little button here.

Kyle Goodknight (29:23):
We put it in post so and it brought it up
when you were saying that you'reaway from home.
And you know, as a 24 hour onand 48 hours off, I'm away from
home for a whole 24 hours.
I leave at 5 am, I come back at630 am the next day.
My wife's a nurse and we builda house out in the country.
You know, we that's what wethought we wanted and that's

(29:46):
what we both said.
I built the house, I designedthe house, I'm in construction,
so I was able to do a lot of thework myself.
Well, about six months, maybesix months to a year, living
there.
We live on this big old countryroad with houses within.
You know, closest house to mewas 700 feet away or more and I
get a phone call 2 am away ormore and I get a phone call 2 am

(30:12):
.
I'm on duty.
I was, luckily, on a run and Igot back from the run and I saw
that she called Call her up.
She's like where the hellyou've been?
I'm like baby, I was on a run,what's up?
And she's like we figured outwhat it is, but I thought
someone was trying to break intothe house.
So what had happened?
Some kids down the street shotbottle rockets at the house from
the street.
We had a 400 foot front yard soit started hitting the house.
She thought somebody was takinga hammer trying to break
through our front door, whichwas all glass.

(30:34):
So she's got, she's home withtwo small kids.
You know, I mean at the timethat would have been, carter was
would have been six and Camwould have been three.
You know.
So two small children byherself.
No, she never believed inweapons.
So, you know, she thoughtsomeone was breaking into the
house.
She called a neighbor Neighbor,came over and said hey, you

(30:54):
know, it's just.
You know, there was a box ofpoop on fire on the front porch
and you know they're justhooligans, right.
And, and so she was.
She called me up, she talkedabout it and I'm like do you
want me to come home?
I'll leave right now.
I'll call my captain and say,hey, I got to get home for
emergency.
And she's like.
She's like no, no, no, you know, you just got on a run.
We know how that works, youknow, just talk to me on the

(31:15):
phone.
And I'm like okay.
So as I'm coming home, I seefootprints in the dew footprints
lead right to their house.
And uh, I go over and knock onthe door at six 30 in the
morning, knocking that lady'sdoor, and she's like why are you
?
She's like, and I'm like didyour kids have s'mores last

(31:38):
night by chance?
Yeah, well, there's a box ofs'mores with shit in it on my
porch.
Um, and she was like well, notmy.
I'm like no, no, no, no, no.
I see footprints.
All I want, you know, you'relucky, my wife didn't have a
shotgun because she thoughtsomeone was breaking into the
house.
And I'm like we can, we can.
I just want the boys to comedown and clean things up and
have a talk.
I don't want to call the police, I don't want to do it, which I

(31:58):
can.
You know you guys vandalize myhome.
Fast forward five years.
That's when I came home fromwork and my wife's like I'm done
, I'm out.
I'm like what do you mean?
She's like I can't do itanymore, I can't live here, I
can't be with you.

(32:20):
And as we unpacked thatdiscussion for the next two
years, come to find out she feltuncomfortable from the moment
that night happened.
She was uncomfortable everynight.
I left Right and that weighedon her and she's in health care
too.
So, but she never, she neverbrought it up.
She pushed it down like sheshould have brought it up.
I should have brought up, Ishould have checked in on her,
right, hey, are you doing OKwith that?
You know, do we need to talkabout?
You know, like I, we, we bothshould have done things better,

(32:42):
and that's what I'm talkingabout.
It's not just the stuff thathappened at work.
This was at home.
This was my family.
This was the true fear of herbeing attacked in our own home,
and that was a major downfall ofour possible marriage and our
life together.
And, thank God, we had goodcommunication at a point in time

(33:02):
with a therapist or a counselorthat helped us unpack
everything properly and realizethat it wasn't all me, it wasn't
all her, it was situational, itwas a little bit of everything,
just this big huge conglomerateof bullshit and crap that
happened to us, that made us notwant to be with each other
anymore.
And we were able to unpack itand I'm happy to say I'm 24

(33:23):
years in now.
Congratulations, yeah, and thatwas year 12.
So, yeah, I mean, it was, thatwas year 12.
So, yeah.

Steve Bisson (33:28):
And I think that that's exactly the other part
that I talk about in therapywith some of the first
responders who are like well, Isaw this adverse event, whatever
it is.
I'm just trying to keep it asvague as I can.
I'm like how did that affectyour family?
I'm not here to talk about myfamily.
Hell, you are.

Kyle Goodknight (33:45):
Yeah it affects your family.

Steve Bisson (33:47):
Yeah, and now you know, and the best part of my
job is if you were one of myclients and the day they say I
wonder if I should invite mywife, Please bring your wife in.
Yeah, absolutely, I tell peopleright away.
And what I found is, once youstart opening that, you know, I
know there's always these imagesI'm going to interpret see if

(34:13):
the French Canadian in me justkicked in uh, interpret what's
going on and take your words andmake sense of them and vice
versa.
For your partner, whoever thatis, and being able to have that
open communication is soimportant because both, both.
What people don't understand isthis this job affects your home
life.
This job affects so many otherthings.
It is not singularly anythingelse.
So for me personally, it'salways reminding yourself that

(34:35):
work on the communication athome, work with your kids
there's a lot of stuff that youbring.
This therapy is not about justtrauma, and so you know, I did a
survey recently with a bunch offirst responders and one of the
things they they ask is like,once the trauma is resolved, am
I okay?
And so you know I I did asurvey recently with a bunch of
first responders and one of thethings they ask is like what's
the traumas resolve?
Am I okay?
You know that's the questionthey have.
I'm like I don't know, Maybe,maybe not, highly likely not.

Kyle Goodknight (34:57):
But okay, you smell something that reminds you
of the scene, right, you knowso I think that that's the other
part too.

Steve Bisson (35:02):
Is you know how do we communicate with first
responders about this stigma?
Because I have my own thoughtson that.
I'll share them with you after,but I'd like to hear your
thoughts about how do we work onthis stigma, because everyone
wants something like it's justmy trauma and I'm like, geez, I
wish I would tell you that Iwork only with trauma, right,
yeah?

Kyle Goodknight (35:19):
And the word stigma is starting to become a
stigma.
I know we talking about youknow I and I just recently, you
know, in my, in my division, I'mone of the educators for my
department and I was luckyenough to help guide some

(35:40):
training that we've had recentlyon first responder mental
health and, um, and we ended upwas it two months ago?
We had the whole month.
Was we?
Every month we have a newlecture and this month, two
months ago, we had a lecture onlike basically just just an
introduction to mental healthand first responder stuff,
including, like, what mydepartment offers for us and how

(36:04):
to get ahold of it and stufflike that.
But one of the things that thatI talked about, at least in my
lecture.
I don't know this was sharedwith the other five people, but
I was like, listen, guys, we'veall heard the word stigma.
We hear it on the radio.
Now we hear it about mentalhealth in general and people are
starting to get numb to theword stigma.
So or start already, hear theword stigma and put a guard up.
And I startup and I'm like Idon't want to talk about this

(36:25):
thing, I want to talk aboutnormalization.
I want to normalize thisconversation.
I'm here today to tell you guyshow, what I went through.
A lot of you already know whatI went through because I've been
open about it, because I feelthat is the best policy.
If I'm open about it, I'm notashamed, not even close to
ashamed.
You know the people that didn'tsee or didn't.
I didn't even see.

(36:45):
I didn't even see the family.
I wasn't even there to see thefamily.
I didn't go in and but I had allof this trauma that come down
on me and this incident alongwith my family, and it affected
everything in my life, includingmy friends.
You know, I had friends of minecalling me.
One of the guy was in mywedding and he called me up.
It's like, oh my God, blank,blank, blank, blank.
You know, just passed away.

(37:05):
I'm like, yeah, dude, I know.
And he's like, oh shit.
I'm like yep, I can't reallytalk about it, you know.
And he's like, oh my God.
And I'm like yeah.
So it affected more than justme in that day and the one thing
that I tell people is I'm not,I'm not ashamed of that day.
I you know that story, whetheryou know carbon monoxide Okay,

(37:27):
tomorrow is Firefighter Month.
Right, it is National FirePrevention.

Steve Bisson (37:31):
Week For October yep.

Kyle Goodknight (37:32):
Yep.
So guess what?
Everybody Guess what I talkabout for the whole month of
October.
Not just fires, but the carbonmonoxide detectors.
Everybody get their batterieschanged.
Everybody go get the combo.
Everybody should have a carbonmonoxide detector in the house,
and I don't care if you're anall-electric house, unless
you're an all electric house,unless you're an all electric

(37:52):
house with an electric car andyou have zero combustible gas
stuff in your home.

Steve Bisson (37:54):
You know, get a darn cut or $17, man and no
liquids or whatever, becausethat's also another factor.

Kyle Goodknight (37:59):
No chance of any combustible.
Yeah, like, if you have a hotwater tank done, you got to get
one.
If you've got a furnace boat,get one.
I don't care if you.
I mean most of my life.
Most of my life I lived in a,in a heat pump environment but
and and electric water tank.
But there's still vehicles in acar and I'm telling, I'm here
to tell you right now.
I treated six firefighters whowere on a scene of a cardiac

(38:22):
arrest in a upstairs bedroomwith the garage underneath.
Somebody forgot to turn the caroff.
They went inside and I treatedsix firefighters that day after
they did their job and got thatpatient out and didn't even
realize that there was a carrunning in the basement Right.
Basically it was a.
It was a split level and theywere acting funny.

(38:45):
They weren't, their storiesweren't straight, they couldn't,
they weren't able to give thereport over the radio properly
and I pulled one aside.
I'm like, dude, what is goingon with you?
This is not you.
He's like oh man, I can't keepmy thoughts straight.
Aside.
I'm like, dude, what is goingon with you?
This is not you.
He's like oh man, I can't keepmy thoughts straight and I'm
like come here, come here, letme, let me do something.
So I went out.
I told the doctor.

(39:05):
I said hey, listen, they justworked this lady who had
extremely high carbon monoxidelevel.
They worked her in the housefor more than 20 minutes.
I'm like I go get them.
So I went out to the truck.
I said everybody in here, so Igrabbed everybody this was early
on in my career grabbedeverybody.
We lined everybody up.
I got blood gases on everybodyand their levels were high.
We put them on a hundredpercent oxygen and they were
eventually got discharged.
But it was one of those thingswhere, where it's just you, you

(39:28):
just have to be, you have tonormalize this conversation and
to get back to that, to where westarted with.
This is that's what I talk topeople now.
I want to normalize this.
I don't want this to be astigma.
I don't want this to be, oh youknow, normalize it.
Let's just talk about it Likewe talk about anything.
If you had something going onwith your kid in the medical
world, you're going to talkabout somebody with them.

(39:50):
Right, you're going to say, hey, you know, my, my kids got this
kind of condition or what haveyou.
Like you're going to talk aboutstuff.
How about we normalize all ofthis mental health stuff and
just understand that it's partof life, it's part of being a
human?
You know we're not.
We're human, we have.
It's the best thing and it'sthe worst thing, because we have
a brain and our brains can behighly effective or highly

(40:12):
damaging, and being able tonormalize this conversation
makes everything less damagingup there.

Steve Bisson (40:18):
Normalizing.
I love the word and that's whyI tossed you that softball,
because I want to talk aboutthat.
Yeah, thanks for the home run.
But ultimately, that's the partI talk about also with my
clients, because this is theimportant part is that no one
goes to oh, I've got my physicaltoday.
I just don't want to talk aboutthat.
No, you're going to yourphysical.
Who gives a crap?
Right, right.
And you're like oh, I have mymental health update.

(40:41):
Oh, you're mentally ill oryou're dizzy.
No, no, no, it's a mentalhealth update.
I'm going once a year to checkin with my therapist or whatever
.
The goal of this podcast is todemystify this stuff and make
sure that people treat theirmental health as they would
treat their physical health.
You're not doing so good.
Go see your mental healthcounselor a little more.
That's fine.
Once you start doing better,see them once a year.

(41:03):
Who cares?
But I think that that's my viewand there's a couple of chiefs
I know I can only speakintelligently in the New England
area, but I'm sure there'sother places in the country but
there's chiefs that will giveyou four hours every year to go
see a therapist and it'sbasically time off.
You want to go see yourtherapist.
Some of them is eight hoursactually, it's a whole shift for

(41:24):
police and you go see atherapist and you don't need to
report it, you don't needanything else.
I'm going to see my therapistand to normalize it in that way
is so important.
And being able to sit around thetable if you're at the fire
station, sit at the policestation and talk about the stuff
.
That's hard Because there's toomany people.
You know you talk about theACEs score, the downfall of the
ACEs score.

(41:44):
Just, my experience is thatpeople are like well, I handled
my crap when I was a kid.
I should be able to handle itas an adult.
I'm like no, no, no, that's notat all what that point is.
You missed the whole point here.
Yeah, exactly so.
Um, those, you know, that's whyI talk about.
You know, being able to talk ofnormalization, normalization of
mental health, I just it justto me is so not like common and

(42:09):
but a lot of people don't wantto see it that way.
Yeah, exactly, exactly so.
You know I could go on and onto talk about this, but I do
want to give you, you know, berespectful of your time, no
problem, you know.
One of the things that I wouldlike to hear more is about
Elevate your podcast and tellpeople about it a little more
Sure.

Kyle Goodknight (42:27):
So Elevate is the podcast that I started for
mental health resilience andjust to share different avenues
of what mental health on thebackside of mental health, could
look like therapy, if you will,I don't wanna.
Therapy does also have anegative connotation to it.
In general, people don't wannago to therapy, but there's a lot

(42:48):
of options out there now and Itry to do my best to talk about,
to have.
It's not all about talk therapy.
What I like to say is that youhave a counselor that is a guide
for you, to guide you throughand find out what is the best.
You know not cure, but besttreatment for your symptoms you
wouldn't go to.
You know you have anutritionist for your nutrition.

(43:10):
You wouldn't ask them about howto build lean muscle, although
they may have some idea, butthey're not professional at it.
So you need to.
You know you go to the personaltrainer that that does that.
They kind of sometimes theyoverlap a little bit and
sometimes have knowledge.
People have knowledge in both.
Well, it's the same thing whenit comes, just like you said,

(43:36):
when it comes to your mentalhealth, you need the right
person to help guide you throughwhat is the right therapy, if
you will, for lack of betterterms, the right decision to
treat the symptoms that you have.
Is it EMS, etms, is it?
Is it EDMR?
Is it hypnotherapy?
Is it?
There's all kinds of things outthere.
Is it?
You know the, the ganglionblock, you know therapy?
Or is it ketamine therapy andlike, what is it?
What is it for you?
Is it group therapy?
Is it talk therapy?
What is it Like?

(43:57):
What resonates with you?
Let's see what helps you.
I did EDMR myself and I came outwith flying colors from it.
It worked for me.
I've had other people that havetold me like I tried.
It didn't work for me for verylong, so I went to something
else else.
Well, good, I'm glad you wentto something else.
You know, I'm like it's not allabout one thing.
So the elevate podcast is thatone help normalize the

(44:18):
conversation and bringing onprofessionals in the, in the
industry, even people that aresomewhat removed from the first
responder world, like I had onegal.
Come on, she went.
She went through school for uh,for being a psychologist
married to a police officer, andthat was such a great
conversation because it was likewait a second.

(44:39):
This is helpful Because notonly is she married to a first
responder and sees his lack ofability to say, hey, I need help
, but she's actually a helper,she's actually someone that
would guide things, and is shethe answer for him?
Most likely not because it'syour loved one, but or it's the
person you're, you're married toor engaged to, I think at the
time you know, but, but it'sstill.

(45:00):
It's like she needs to help himunderstand that this is this is
a normal thing to discuss, andanother thing that she brought
up was the fact that whatthey're teaching them in school
is not what is going and workingnowadays, and she came out of
school completely disappointedbecause she felt like she wasn't
prepared for the real world,and so she's.
She came on the podcast talkingabout how we need to basically

(45:23):
elevate the educational systemon what is now found.
I mean some of the things likeif you read go read the book the
body keeps a score.
Some of the stuff that is isingrained in us now only came
out in 2012.
That's what that was.
That was 12 years ago.
That's very, very small amountof time compared to the whole
world of of psychology and andmental health in general.

(45:44):
So you know, and we're just nowlearning about the brain with
the scans that we can do, that,that that show what lights up
during different conversationsand smells and and it's all.
It's all all relevant.
And that stuff is not beingcovered as deep from what she
said in, at least in her school.
You know.
So it's.
You know, the the elevatepodcast is the podcast that that

(46:04):
introduces.
I want it to be a place, a safeplace for people to come listen
to it on their own time, and ifthey get one nugget per episode
, if you get one nugget everyfifth episode, I don't care,
because I want them to getsomething to be able to raise
their hand and say, okay, I wantto be able to unpackage some of
this stuff that I've dealt with.

Steve Bisson (46:23):
I listen to Kyle's podcast, Elevate, and it's
really good.
I recommend it to firstresponders, people who want to
work with first responders,because the competency of the
therapist is also key and Ithink that sometimes that plays
a factor too, because if youdon't have that cultural
competency, I think that thatplays a factor and that's what
affects some of the guys who gosee a therapist.

(46:43):
But that's what I think youtalk about on your podcast.

Kyle Goodknight (46:45):
Yeah, and a lot of first responders don't want
to go to a therapist becausethey don't know my world, they
don't know what I go through.
So we are lucky right now thatwe're having this movement of a
lot of first responders thathave been down the path of
needing help and gotten help andrealize that things are better
now after they've got the help,whatever it was and they want to

(47:06):
do something to give back, andso there are more and more
counselors and therapists outthere that are geared
specifically to the firstresponders, and that's going to
be.
That's huge, you know, and youknow not just have you worked
with first responders, no, doyou specialize in first
responders?
And now, with the power of whatwe're dealing with right now,

(47:27):
you're in Massachusetts, I'm inOhio, we have Zoom counseling.
This is this.
It can, that's, you can now geta counselor that is completely
far away from you.
That's not even in your localcommunity.
So if you wanted to keep itunder wraps, if that's was still
the stigma in your departmentthat you don't want people to
know is, you can do that nowthrough zoom therapy and and it

(47:48):
and it's very effective and it'salmost.
It's almost more effectivebecause you can be a little bit
more open about it.
You know you don't have toworry about the way you can shut
your camera off.
You shut your camera off andthey don't see you and you could
just talk.
You know what I mean.
So it's one of those thingswhere you know it.
It is we are in the best timein our lives to have have the

(48:11):
tools to learn how to cope withthe stuff that we were never
trained in school to deal with.

Steve Bisson (48:17):
Right and you're right.
You know whatever she said.
You don't learn these things inschool.
And you know when I dated thisstory I like to share before we
wrap up here when I was dating,someone had put me in a
situation where she wanted me tobe the therapist for her family
, which is not my role in life.
So one of the things that cameup after that is in my profile

(48:39):
of I can't remember which oneBumble whatever the hell it was.
It said I'm a therapist, butI'm not your therapist.
And to this day that makes mygirlfriend now, who I've been
with her for two and a halfyears, laugh and laugh and laugh
, and sometimes she even says Iwant to ask for advice, but I
know you're not my therapist.
I'm like, okay, go fuck yourself, but anyway.
So just wanted to share thatstory because that is absolutely

(49:02):
true and I thought you'd laughand make people laugh about my
silly stuff.
That happened in my life.
So where do we find Elevate?
I would like people to go pickit up Elevate is it's spelled
with two ones.

Kyle Goodknight (49:16):
So, yep, elevate is, it's spelled with
two ones.
So I take the L out and I puttwo ones.
It's a long story.
I explain it on the Elevatepodcast.
You can listen and find out whyI do it that way.
But basically the two ones arethe on and off duty persona of
the first responder.
So it's E-1-1-E-V-A-T-E.
So just take out the L and puttwo ones in that look like L's
and that's how I spell it.
So on YouTube you know all themajor platforms YouTube, spotify

(49:39):
, apple.
You know kylegoodnightcom I'm,if you spell my name, even if
you spell my name wrong with theleaving the K out of the middle
Kyle Goodnight.
Either way you spell it, you'llfind my website.
That has, you know, has linksto all of my podcasts.
You know I run two differentpodcasts and help about nine
other people with their podcasts.
So I'm kind of in my voiceoverindustry and my voiceover side

(50:02):
job, I've become a podcaster aswell and a podcast coach.
So I'm kind of like it's kindof one of those weird things
where you go to my website andyou're like wait a second, where
do I go?

Steve Bisson (50:16):
I'm like well, I've got it set up at a first
responder podcast or voiceoverand we'll definitely link it to
the show notes so that waypeople can reach out.
Yeah, Whether they need youthrough first responder stuff,
podcast stuff or your voiceover,I'll make sure that it's all
linked up for you, but uh, youknow I was talking to you
beforehand and, truthfully, Ienjoy our talks.
I hope you come back on thepodcast at some point,
absolutely, cause I feel like wedidn't even scratch the surface

(50:38):
as to what people need to hear.

Kyle Goodknight (50:38):
There's so much more we can talk about it so.

Steve Bisson (50:40):
I'm looking forward to that, and if you ever
want me back on your podcast,I'm always available.
So absolutely Love talking tomy first responder world,
because you talked aboutcompetency and that's so
important yeah.

Kyle Goodknight (50:51):
Yeah, yep, so thank you very much, kyle, and
I'll talk to you soon.

Steve Bisson (50:55):
Well, this concludes episode one 75.
Kyle, good night.
Thank you so much.
Really appreciate it.
I think you're going to comeback to the show.
I love this interview.
We even then scratched thesurface of what we can talk
about.
Uh, but all of his stuff is onhis website.
You can go get it.
I think I'm gonna leave theACEs also in the show notes if
you want to look at it foryourself.
But episode 176 will be areturning guest, someone I truly

(51:18):
appreciate as a human being,stephanie Simpson, and she's
going to be here on episode 176.
And I hope you join me then.

Announcer (51:27):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.

(51:50):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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