February 12, 2025 • 15 mins
What if the very nature of your job required you to lock away grief, only for it to accumulate and weigh heavier with each call? Join us for a compelling discussion as we unravel the unique emotional landscape navigated by first responders like EMTs, paramedics, and police officers. These everyday heroes are often thrust into situations that demand stoic professionalism despite the emotional toll of repeated trauma. We'll explore how they confront cumulative grief and the societal pressures to maintain composure amidst chaos. With personal insights and expert perspectives, we aim to illuminate the emotional and psychological challenges that come hand-in-hand with their vital roles.
As we continue our journey through the complexity of grief, we recognize its unpredictable and non-linear path through denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Inspired by Gina Moffa's work, we reflect on how grief can manifest in fluctuating emotional patterns and physical symptoms, proving particularly challenging for first responders. From energy shifts to body tension, understanding these signs is crucial to their well-being. Looking forward, we're thrilled to announce the return of Jessica Jamison in our next episode, where we'll tackle the topic of food trauma and its profound impact on eating habits and perceptions. Join us for these poignant discussions, and remember, if you or someone you know is facing mental health struggles, professional help is always available.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy
.
A proud member of thePsychCraft Network, the goal of
this podcast is to demystifytherapy, what can happen in
therapy and the wide array ofconversations you can have in
and about therapy Throughpersonal experiences.
Guests will talk about therapy,their experiences with it and
(00:24):
how psychology and therapy arepresent in many places in their
lives, with lots of authenticityand a touch of humor.
Here is your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Alors on est plus près que jamais d'être officiel.
We are close to never beingofficial.
Welcome to episode 191 ofFinding finding your way through
therapy.
So very excited.
The studio is really coming intogether.
I'm really hoping that,starting probably this episode
or the next episode, I'm goingto start just doing it out of
this studio that I really like.
Let me know what you think.
I just want to know what peoplethink.
(00:58):
But hey, that's good.
I also have a new soundboard soI like to play with that stuff.
The closest thing that I thinkis acceptable for this podcast
is to say yes, we're probablygoing to be in the studio
regularly starting this episode.
So I don't know if you'reexcited like I am, but obviously
I needed to give myself a hand.
A lot of work went through thisand I do appreciate all the
(01:18):
support that others have givenme.
So episode 190, if you haven'tlistened to it, go back and
listen to it.
Tina Jurotic, who talked abouttraumatic relationships, how to
heal, and her book.
I mean it was a greatconversation, so please go back.
But episode 191, as I said, wewere going to talk about the
process of grief.
The reason why I want to talkabout grief?
For several reasons.
(01:38):
A, that's going to be a themenow in this podcast on a regular
basis with the change andeverything else that's coming up
, and in a couple of weeksyou're going to start seeing the
new name come up.
Anyone who wants to venture,yes, direct message me, let me
know.
But yeah, we're going to betalking about grief a lot more.
So I wanted to talk a little bitabout what first responders
particularly go with grief,because they've observed lots of
(02:02):
unique grief patterns, and thereason why is because I think
that one of the things thathappens with first responders in
particular is cumulative grief.
They have multiple traumaticincidents in shorter periods and
, yes, this is not for everyfirst responder.
In fact, I find that, yes,while it is higher than the
general population, it is notnecessarily all first responders
(02:23):
, but they do process grief alittle differently.
They get a lot of challengingcalls, they're always exposed to
other people's traumas andsometimes it can be their
colleagues, right?
So I really, really think thatthat's something that happens,
as well as what they see in thecommunity, and the time the
process sometimes is not good.
I would say that EMTsparamedics in the Northeast who
(02:44):
work with the fire departmentstend to be able to go back to
the program and when they goback to the program they're able
to the station, not the program, but to go back to the station.
They end up processing with theguys whoever was not on the
call or was on the call orwhatever, so that they have that
time with police.
Unfortunately, it's a lot ofsolo work.
You're not usually with apartner.
You usually have to write thereport and if there's another
(03:07):
call that comes in, guess what?
You got to go take care of thecalls.
So definitely different timesand you'll have a lot of time to
process that.
The other thing is you need tomaintain your composure on the
scene.
How many times did I hear guyscome close to say I almost lost
my shit here, and the reason why?
Because you got to keep yourcomposure.
But sometimes you have your ownstuff going on.
(03:28):
It's very difficult.
So keeping your composure canbe difficult.
Managing public expectations Nowthis is something that you got
to understand about grief.
So a police officer in Vermontdoes something wrong, well, all
police are put together becauseof that Police officer does
something wrong in Utah.
(03:48):
Every police officer is in thesame boat when you have the
public expectations.
And then they throw a camera inyour face because guess what?
My job, your job, for most ofyou who are not first responders
, no one's with a camera in yourface.
Sure, you might be monitored bycameras, but they're not in
your face and trying to evenprovoke you.
And yes, for those who areoffended by my comment, because
(04:09):
they're public, not all publicpeople try to provoke first
responders, but they definitelya lot of them do.
And the reason why I'm going torecord this, I'm going to
record this, they don't care.
So most of them are carryingbody cameras now, but it's
ultimately very difficult todeal with that.
And then that grief.
It could be like what peoplesaid when people don't report,
(04:30):
what will do this and do that?
I think that that plays a hugefactor and it definitely puts a
pressure on the first respondersmore than others.
The administrative pressures.
If I had a dime for every timethat someone told me about
administration, what's the rightword I'm looking for?
Betrayal being told one thingand not doing another.
I think every other week ingroup we talk about
(04:51):
administration betrayal chiefs,deputies, lieutenants, town
managers, sheriffs, people likethat betrayal.
And then, when they startaccumulating because of X, y, z,
or they've been told one thingone day and it changes on the
other.
It just really grows on you.
There's a lot of pressure thatgoes with that.
And then you got to have yourpersonal reactions to stuff.
(05:12):
Right, and, like as a therapist, I do have reactions to what
people say sorry, to break awall, police do too fire, do too
EMT, paramedics, dispatch ERpeople, doc people all of those
people have a reaction, butguess what?
They keep it together becausethey feel that's important, that
needs to be done.
Right, and you got to do allyour professional duties.
(05:33):
But having a personal reactionafterwards can be very difficult
.
And you know, there's a dailything, their daily expectation
that you're always on whenyou're working your 40 hours.
While I think that in principlewe all want to be on in our
jobs for 40 hours, in thisparticular job it is very
difficult, all this firstresponder stuff.
And then I do remember someonetelling me that they went on a
(05:57):
call for something that wassimilar to a call.
They went for that samesomething a couple of years back
and then that comes back andhaunts them.
You can call it trauma, but Icall it grief sometimes because
that plays a factor.
There's anniversaries.
As I write this, I'm notemotional.
Today it's going really well.
One of my good friends,christina, passed away.
This would be 17 years ago,which is unbelievable to think
(06:20):
about.
But the anniversary sometimesthey can play a factor for
people.
My grief today.
The anniversary is okay.
That doesn't mean I'll be okayin the future, but it definitely
is hard sometimes.
And then change in teamdynamics.
Whenever you have someone wholeaves, retires or worse,
misconducts, that can play afactor.
The grief and the loss.
Anytime there's a change in ateam, whether it's sports or
(06:42):
first responders or whatever, itaffects the team.
When I coached soccer I alwaystry to keep everyone there, even
if they were injured, and cometo the bench.
Why?
Because it affects the team andthere's a grief process that
goes on if they're not there.
What's interesting is I've, intime, I remember talking about
grief and what was the Biblewhen I first started?
(07:03):
Yes, 20 something years ago.
A lot of the people talked aboutthe Kubler-Ross five stages of
grief and I'm sure you've heardof that.
I've certainly used them intherapy with some of my clients.
It's been quote disproven.
This is an original idea.
It's not disproven in my bookin the sense that it still
exists.
But they've shown that it's notlinear, it's not the same, it's
not circular.
So the Kubler-Ross, it was agood process of grief and
(07:26):
grieving that's the name of thebook, if you want to go check it
out.
But it starts with the denial,the initial shield for us not to
feel, and it keeps us fromoverwhelming pain.
And I can't believe it.
Or it just didn't happen.
What are you talking about?
Laughing about it?
Some people will laugh too.
That's usually the denial stage.
Anger is the emotional protestof the loss.
(07:47):
No, that can't be.
What the hell are you talkingabout?
And that goes hand in handsometimes with denial, the
bargaining.
We're trying to regain control.
And well, maybe this is just abad dream, maybe this would have
changed something if I did thisor that.
And we bargain, even about ourrelationship with those
individuals.
And then it leads to depression, the weight of the reality sits
(08:10):
in, and then eventually you getto acceptance, learning to live
with a new normal.
That doesn't mean you get overit, you get through it, and
that's something you'll hear meconstantly say about grief and
trauma.
But I want to throw that out.
For the grief Again, it's been.
It's not a linear step.
It's been disproven in thesense that it's not only that
simple, so to speak, andsometimes people have multiple
stages at once, like I said, thedenial, the anger, bargaining,
(08:32):
depression.
And I know that people havegone from acceptance.
I know my friend has been gonenow for, like I said, 17 years,
which seems really unreal to me.
Sorry, I'm getting a littleemotional and I still bargain to
this day.
What if I checked on her?
What if I called her and talkedto her in about a couple of
weeks?
At that point it's not going tochange anything, but I'm still
(08:54):
bargaining, even afterwards.
So keep in mind that thebargaining is something that
might show up in the future andall that.
But again, a lot of peoplewould say that it's been
disproven.
I think that there's a lot ofthings that have been disproven.
I think that there's a lot ofthings that have been disproven.
That doesn't mean they're nothelpful.
But I'll turn to something youknow, someone I really trust,
and you've heard her on the showa couple of times Gina Moffa
(09:14):
shout out.
Gina, hope you're listening andI'll put her book in the show
notes because I truly, trulybelieve her book is one of the
best works on grief that we'veever heard, and she talks about
grief rhythms and they show upas daily emotional fluctuations.
Right now I've been fine allday but I started talking about
Christina, started affecting me.
(09:34):
Now it's not affecting, butdeal with those emotional
fluctuations, the bargaining,the stuff like that.
The energy level changes.
Sometimes we're like on andsometimes we have no energy and
being able to look at all thesechanges that occur in our energy
levels and that's absolutelynormal.
A lot of people struggle withthat but at the end of the day
the energy level is normal tochange because of the things
(09:55):
that are going on Copingcapacities and again, gina MOFA,
it doesn't mean letting go.
I'm trying to remember the firstpart.
I will put it in the show notes.
I really encourage you to readthat book.
I've given it to my clients.
Some of them have kept it andthat's fine, but really like it.
And we talk about the capacities.
Some days I can handle it well,sometimes I don't.
Christina's birthday was inJanuary and when I was thinking
(10:19):
about that I started cryingabout her birthday.
But today's the anniversary ofher death and I'm fine.
So who knows, and maybe I won'tbe able to cope later on.
I still have a few clients,have a few things to see and do
today, so who knows how I'mgoing to feel later on.
But that's normal and theintensity, like I've cried like
a baby about Christina before,and is it the fifth year, is it
(10:42):
the 10th year, I don't know butit really changes and then it
also shows up in different waysin your body.
Sometimes your sleep isdistorted and really not well
because you're thinking about it, you're bargaining, you're
doing a lot of those capacitythings that you're changing.
Body tension right now I'mrelaxed, see, my shoulders are
(11:03):
kind of relaxed, but sometimesI'm tense and really
understanding that physicalmanifestations will occur in
regards to the loss.
Sometimes your energy will bereally high and sometimes it'll
be really low, and thensometimes it'll be very alert
and sometimes it'll be very slowand those are all the
fluctuations that occur becauseof the loss.
(11:23):
And on the psychologicalstandpoint, you're going to have
memory challenges andremembering it differently.
We create our stories.
You know there's a whole studythat shows that all our memories
are flawed and the reason whyis that we want to remember it
in a way that makes it easy forus.
So you know, maybe the memorychallenges or changes.
There's intrusive thoughtsabout you know why her not blank
and I don't want to triggeranyone, but that plays a factor.
(11:46):
Realizing that these thingsoccur is so important.
That's why I want to throw itout here, but it's very
important.
And then concentration issues.
Today I can concentrate,although I've screwed up a
couple of my words.
Maybe it's about Christina,maybe I'm tired, maybe it's
something else, but ultimatelyit does happen.
So just acknowledging it andbeing able to do that is very
important.
(12:13):
So if you go back a little bitto first responders, this grief
stuff can go for anyone, but forfirst responders, manage it on
scene, be able to check in withsomeone there.
If you need to ground yourselfbetween calls making sure you do
deep breathing and I knowthat's not cool for some first
responders, but learning to deepbreathe just a reset, grounding
yourself and I tell peoplesometimes it's using a little
bit of ice on your arms just tomake your body come back to a
(12:34):
physical state, not an emotionalstate that really helps.
If you need to talk to peersupport afterwards or get a
crisis intervention, stressmanagement program or scissor
scissors or peer support, youcan go ahead, reach out to your
resources in the community andobviously, if you have a
therapist or you have people whowork in that field, that can
(12:54):
give you some direction, that'sall even better.
And the long-term resiliencebuilding.
It's just these emotionalcheck-ins.
What I do with a lot of myclients, particularly my first
responders.
They let them shoot aboutwhatever they want.
They tend to bring back some ofthe stuff that's been going on
in their life and no, it's nottypically grief or trauma, other
stuff.
But if you let people shoot, soto speak, talk about whatever
(13:16):
they want to talk about, theyend up being able to open up and
discuss what's truly happeningand then have professional
growth, find ways to.
You know.
Therapy is nice, but gettingother resources in the community
, things that you can reach outto and people you can reach out
to, is so important.
And having peers.
I think that the other part toois, while I do obviously
(13:37):
believe in therapy, right,having peers is so important.
So I want to make sure youthink about that.
If I miss anything about thegrief or you want more specifics
, let me know, direct message meand I can certainly do that
because I've worked with a lotof first responders.
I know these challenges.
I've had grief in my life sincevery young age.
I like to tell you grief islike I can't tell you one day
(14:00):
where grief is predictable forme and I can't tell you that
it's predictable even for myclients or people I know that
are super duper grounded and allthat fun stuff.
Stop thinking that you're goingto be able to get over it.
Stop thinking it's going to begone, and acknowledge that
there's personal demands versusprofessional demands and they
all link together and they cancause grief.
(14:22):
Because sometimes I hear prettybad stories in my job and it
can be hard for me as a humanbeing after all.
So I go home and I may not be agreatest father or the greatest
boyfriend or what have you.
So I got to learn how to dealwith that and being able to
acknowledge that it's sometimesthe grief.
You know, if tonight I'm havinga hard time, I'm going to
acknowledge it's my grief and ifit's not my grief, then
(14:43):
acknowledging my emotions.
But I guess that's a story fora different day so we can talk
about that later.
But the next episode is episode192.
It's going to be with JessicaJamison.
She's been on the show before.
I think it was episode 29, if Iremember correctly, go check it
out.
We'll discuss food trauma andhow it affects our habits eating
and how we perceive things, soI hope you join us.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(15:28):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy
.
A proud member of thePsychCraft Network, the goal of
this podcast is to demystifytherapy, what can happen in
therapy and the wide array ofconversations you can have in
and about therapy Throughpersonal experiences.
Guests will talk about therapy,their experiences with it and
(00:24):
how psychology and therapy arepresent in many places in their
lives, with lots of authenticityand a touch of humor.
Here is your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Alors on est plus près que jamais d'être officiel.
We are close to never beingofficial.
Welcome to episode 191 ofFinding finding your way through
therapy.
So very excited.
The studio is really coming intogether.
I'm really hoping that,starting probably this episode
or the next episode, I'm goingto start just doing it out of
this studio that I really like.
Let me know what you think.
I just want to know what peoplethink.
(00:58):
But hey, that's good.
I also have a new soundboard soI like to play with that stuff.
The closest thing that I thinkis acceptable for this podcast
is to say yes, we're probablygoing to be in the studio
regularly starting this episode.
So I don't know if you'reexcited like I am, but obviously
I needed to give myself a hand.
A lot of work went through thisand I do appreciate all the
(01:18):
support that others have givenme.
So episode 190, if you haven'tlistened to it, go back and
listen to it.
Tina Jurotic, who talked abouttraumatic relationships, how to
heal, and her book.
I mean it was a greatconversation, so please go back.
But episode 191, as I said, wewere going to talk about the
process of grief.
The reason why I want to talkabout grief?
For several reasons.
(01:38):
A, that's going to be a themenow in this podcast on a regular
basis with the change andeverything else that's coming up
, and in a couple of weeksyou're going to start seeing the
new name come up.
Anyone who wants to venture,yes, direct message me, let me
know.
But yeah, we're going to betalking about grief a lot more.
So I wanted to talk a little bitabout what first responders
particularly go with grief,because they've observed lots of
(02:02):
unique grief patterns, and thereason why is because I think
that one of the things thathappens with first responders in
particular is cumulative grief.
They have multiple traumaticincidents in shorter periods and
, yes, this is not for everyfirst responder.
In fact, I find that, yes,while it is higher than the
general population, it is notnecessarily all first responders
(02:23):
, but they do process grief alittle differently.
They get a lot of challengingcalls, they're always exposed to
other people's traumas andsometimes it can be their
colleagues, right?
So I really, really think thatthat's something that happens,
as well as what they see in thecommunity, and the time the
process sometimes is not good.
I would say that EMTsparamedics in the Northeast who
(02:44):
work with the fire departmentstend to be able to go back to
the program and when they goback to the program they're able
to the station, not the program, but to go back to the station.
They end up processing with theguys whoever was not on the
call or was on the call orwhatever, so that they have that
time with police.
Unfortunately, it's a lot ofsolo work.
You're not usually with apartner.
You usually have to write thereport and if there's another
(03:07):
call that comes in, guess what?
You got to go take care of thecalls.
So definitely different timesand you'll have a lot of time to
process that.
The other thing is you need tomaintain your composure on the
scene.
How many times did I hear guyscome close to say I almost lost
my shit here, and the reason why?
Because you got to keep yourcomposure.
But sometimes you have your ownstuff going on.
(03:28):
It's very difficult.
So keeping your composure canbe difficult.
Managing public expectations Nowthis is something that you got
to understand about grief.
So a police officer in Vermontdoes something wrong, well, all
police are put together becauseof that Police officer does
something wrong in Utah.
(03:48):
Every police officer is in thesame boat when you have the
public expectations.
And then they throw a camera inyour face because guess what?
My job, your job, for most ofyou who are not first responders
, no one's with a camera in yourface.
Sure, you might be monitored bycameras, but they're not in
your face and trying to evenprovoke you.
And yes, for those who areoffended by my comment, because
(04:09):
they're public, not all publicpeople try to provoke first
responders, but they definitelya lot of them do.
And the reason why I'm going torecord this, I'm going to
record this, they don't care.
So most of them are carryingbody cameras now, but it's
ultimately very difficult todeal with that.
And then that grief.
It could be like what peoplesaid when people don't report,
(04:30):
what will do this and do that?
I think that that plays a hugefactor and it definitely puts a
pressure on the first respondersmore than others.
The administrative pressures.
If I had a dime for every timethat someone told me about
administration, what's the rightword I'm looking for?
Betrayal being told one thingand not doing another.
I think every other week ingroup we talk about
(04:51):
administration betrayal chiefs,deputies, lieutenants, town
managers, sheriffs, people likethat betrayal.
And then, when they startaccumulating because of X, y, z,
or they've been told one thingone day and it changes on the
other.
It just really grows on you.
There's a lot of pressure thatgoes with that.
And then you got to have yourpersonal reactions to stuff.
(05:12):
Right, and, like as a therapist, I do have reactions to what
people say sorry, to break awall, police do too fire, do too
EMT, paramedics, dispatch ERpeople, doc people all of those
people have a reaction, butguess what?
They keep it together becausethey feel that's important, that
needs to be done.
Right, and you got to do allyour professional duties.
(05:33):
But having a personal reactionafterwards can be very difficult
.
And you know, there's a dailything, their daily expectation
that you're always on whenyou're working your 40 hours.
While I think that in principlewe all want to be on in our
jobs for 40 hours, in thisparticular job it is very
difficult, all this firstresponder stuff.
And then I do remember someonetelling me that they went on a
(05:57):
call for something that wassimilar to a call.
They went for that samesomething a couple of years back
and then that comes back andhaunts them.
You can call it trauma, but Icall it grief sometimes because
that plays a factor.
There's anniversaries.
As I write this, I'm notemotional.
Today it's going really well.
One of my good friends,christina, passed away.
This would be 17 years ago,which is unbelievable to think
(06:20):
about.
But the anniversary sometimesthey can play a factor for
people.
My grief today.
The anniversary is okay.
That doesn't mean I'll be okayin the future, but it definitely
is hard sometimes.
And then change in teamdynamics.
Whenever you have someone wholeaves, retires or worse,
misconducts, that can play afactor.
The grief and the loss.
Anytime there's a change in ateam, whether it's sports or
(06:42):
first responders or whatever, itaffects the team.
When I coached soccer I alwaystry to keep everyone there, even
if they were injured, and cometo the bench.
Why?
Because it affects the team andthere's a grief process that
goes on if they're not there.
What's interesting is I've, intime, I remember talking about
grief and what was the Biblewhen I first started?
(07:03):
Yes, 20 something years ago.
A lot of the people talked aboutthe Kubler-Ross five stages of
grief and I'm sure you've heardof that.
I've certainly used them intherapy with some of my clients.
It's been quote disproven.
This is an original idea.
It's not disproven in my bookin the sense that it still
exists.
But they've shown that it's notlinear, it's not the same, it's
not circular.
So the Kubler-Ross, it was agood process of grief and
(07:26):
grieving that's the name of thebook, if you want to go check it
out.
But it starts with the denial,the initial shield for us not to
feel, and it keeps us fromoverwhelming pain.
And I can't believe it.
Or it just didn't happen.
What are you talking about?
Laughing about it?
Some people will laugh too.
That's usually the denial stage.
Anger is the emotional protestof the loss.
(07:47):
No, that can't be.
What the hell are you talkingabout?
And that goes hand in handsometimes with denial, the
bargaining.
We're trying to regain control.
And well, maybe this is just abad dream, maybe this would have
changed something if I did thisor that.
And we bargain, even about ourrelationship with those
individuals.
And then it leads to depression, the weight of the reality sits
(08:10):
in, and then eventually you getto acceptance, learning to live
with a new normal.
That doesn't mean you get overit, you get through it, and
that's something you'll hear meconstantly say about grief and
trauma.
But I want to throw that out.
For the grief Again, it's been.
It's not a linear step.
It's been disproven in thesense that it's not only that
simple, so to speak, andsometimes people have multiple
stages at once, like I said, thedenial, the anger, bargaining,
(08:32):
depression.
And I know that people havegone from acceptance.
I know my friend has been gonenow for, like I said, 17 years,
which seems really unreal to me.
Sorry, I'm getting a littleemotional and I still bargain to
this day.
What if I checked on her?
What if I called her and talkedto her in about a couple of
weeks?
At that point it's not going tochange anything, but I'm still
(08:54):
bargaining, even afterwards.
So keep in mind that thebargaining is something that
might show up in the future andall that.
But again, a lot of peoplewould say that it's been
disproven.
I think that there's a lot ofthings that have been disproven.
I think that there's a lot ofthings that have been disproven.
That doesn't mean they're nothelpful.
But I'll turn to something youknow, someone I really trust,
and you've heard her on the showa couple of times Gina Moffa
(09:14):
shout out.
Gina, hope you're listening andI'll put her book in the show
notes because I truly, trulybelieve her book is one of the
best works on grief that we'veever heard, and she talks about
grief rhythms and they show upas daily emotional fluctuations.
Right now I've been fine allday but I started talking about
Christina, started affecting me.
(09:34):
Now it's not affecting, butdeal with those emotional
fluctuations, the bargaining,the stuff like that.
The energy level changes.
Sometimes we're like on andsometimes we have no energy and
being able to look at all thesechanges that occur in our energy
levels and that's absolutelynormal.
A lot of people struggle withthat but at the end of the day
the energy level is normal tochange because of the things
(09:55):
that are going on Copingcapacities and again, gina MOFA,
it doesn't mean letting go.
I'm trying to remember the firstpart.
I will put it in the show notes.
I really encourage you to readthat book.
I've given it to my clients.
Some of them have kept it andthat's fine, but really like it.
And we talk about the capacities.
Some days I can handle it well,sometimes I don't.
Christina's birthday was inJanuary and when I was thinking
(10:19):
about that I started cryingabout her birthday.
But today's the anniversary ofher death and I'm fine.
So who knows, and maybe I won'tbe able to cope later on.
I still have a few clients,have a few things to see and do
today, so who knows how I'mgoing to feel later on.
But that's normal and theintensity, like I've cried like
a baby about Christina before,and is it the fifth year, is it
(10:42):
the 10th year, I don't know butit really changes and then it
also shows up in different waysin your body.
Sometimes your sleep isdistorted and really not well
because you're thinking about it, you're bargaining, you're
doing a lot of those capacitythings that you're changing.
Body tension right now I'mrelaxed, see, my shoulders are
(11:03):
kind of relaxed, but sometimesI'm tense and really
understanding that physicalmanifestations will occur in
regards to the loss.
Sometimes your energy will bereally high and sometimes it'll
be really low, and thensometimes it'll be very alert
and sometimes it'll be very slowand those are all the
fluctuations that occur becauseof the loss.
(11:23):
And on the psychologicalstandpoint, you're going to have
memory challenges andremembering it differently.
We create our stories.
You know there's a whole studythat shows that all our memories
are flawed and the reason whyis that we want to remember it
in a way that makes it easy forus.
So you know, maybe the memorychallenges or changes.
There's intrusive thoughtsabout you know why her not blank
and I don't want to triggeranyone, but that plays a factor.
(11:46):
Realizing that these thingsoccur is so important.
That's why I want to throw itout here, but it's very
important.
And then concentration issues.
Today I can concentrate,although I've screwed up a
couple of my words.
Maybe it's about Christina,maybe I'm tired, maybe it's
something else, but ultimatelyit does happen.
So just acknowledging it andbeing able to do that is very
important.
(12:13):
So if you go back a little bitto first responders, this grief
stuff can go for anyone, but forfirst responders, manage it on
scene, be able to check in withsomeone there.
If you need to ground yourselfbetween calls making sure you do
deep breathing and I knowthat's not cool for some first
responders, but learning to deepbreathe just a reset, grounding
yourself and I tell peoplesometimes it's using a little
bit of ice on your arms just tomake your body come back to a
(12:34):
physical state, not an emotionalstate that really helps.
If you need to talk to peersupport afterwards or get a
crisis intervention, stressmanagement program or scissor
scissors or peer support, youcan go ahead, reach out to your
resources in the community andobviously, if you have a
therapist or you have people whowork in that field, that can
(12:54):
give you some direction, that'sall even better.
And the long-term resiliencebuilding.
It's just these emotionalcheck-ins.
What I do with a lot of myclients, particularly my first
responders.
They let them shoot aboutwhatever they want.
They tend to bring back some ofthe stuff that's been going on
in their life and no, it's nottypically grief or trauma, other
stuff.
But if you let people shoot, soto speak, talk about whatever
(13:16):
they want to talk about, theyend up being able to open up and
discuss what's truly happeningand then have professional
growth, find ways to.
You know.
Therapy is nice, but gettingother resources in the community
, things that you can reach outto and people you can reach out
to, is so important.
And having peers.
I think that the other part toois, while I do obviously
(13:37):
believe in therapy, right,having peers is so important.
So I want to make sure youthink about that.
If I miss anything about thegrief or you want more specifics
, let me know, direct message meand I can certainly do that
because I've worked with a lotof first responders.
I know these challenges.
I've had grief in my life sincevery young age.
I like to tell you grief islike I can't tell you one day
(14:00):
where grief is predictable forme and I can't tell you that
it's predictable even for myclients or people I know that
are super duper grounded and allthat fun stuff.
Stop thinking that you're goingto be able to get over it.
Stop thinking it's going to begone, and acknowledge that
there's personal demands versusprofessional demands and they
all link together and they cancause grief.
(14:22):
Because sometimes I hear prettybad stories in my job and it
can be hard for me as a humanbeing after all.
So I go home and I may not be agreatest father or the greatest
boyfriend or what have you.
So I got to learn how to dealwith that and being able to
acknowledge that it's sometimesthe grief.
You know, if tonight I'm havinga hard time, I'm going to
acknowledge it's my grief and ifit's not my grief, then
(14:43):
acknowledging my emotions.
But I guess that's a story fora different day so we can talk
about that later.
But the next episode is episode192.
It's going to be with JessicaJamison.
She's been on the show before.
I think it was episode 29, if Iremember correctly, go check it
out.
We'll discuss food trauma andhow it affects our habits eating
and how we perceive things, soI hope you join us.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(15:28):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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