Ever wondered how a natural disaster could redefine your career path? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Constance McConnell, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) and Certified Financial Social Worker, (CFSW) whose journey into social work began after a tornado struck her town during her senior year of high school. Constance reveals how this life-altering event led her to pivot from psychology to social work, and she shares her experiences working with students on individualized educational plans in elementary schools. You'll gain valuable insights into the day-to-day responsibilities of a school social worker and the profound impact they have on young lives.
But that's not all. We also explore the world of financial social work with Constance, uncovering the psychological and behavioral challenges individuals face regarding personal finances. She offers practical strategies for helping clients open up about their financial histories, understand their money attitudes, and align their financial goals with personal values. We'll tackle the stigma around financial discussions and the importance of fair compensation in the social work profession. Through motivational interviewing and real-life success stories, Constance illustrates how combining financial social work with coaching can empower clients to manage their finances confidently and destigmatize money talk. Tune in for an episode packed with actionable advice and inspiring stories!
Please join me on my different platforms and follow along my journey towards FIRE.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hello everyone, this is the Fire Social Workers Show.
I just wanted to jump in andsay hello to everyone out there.
Just got done with the previousstream for military broadcast
radio and now we have we're kindof I'm putting on my social
worker hat and we're going totalk to a fellow social worker
(00:24):
We'll go and bring on, and hername is Constance McDonald.
So, constance, how are youdoing?
I'm good.
How are you doing?
I'm doing good, I'm doing good.
So we kind of been trying tocoordinate this for a little
while, and you know whatschedule is.
It's always a littlechallenging, but just wanted to
thank you for coming on, and youknow.
So, just to give a little bitof background, you are a
(00:45):
licensed clinical social workerwith a private practice and then
you're also a certifiedfinancial social worker correct.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's that's how Idiscovered you on LinkedIn.
I was just trying to.
I'm also, honestly, I'm tryingto learn about financial social
work because I'm still new tothe, to the, to the field and
you and I'm also still kind ofnew to social work.
(01:08):
So I'm always trying to networkand learn and grow and develop.
So I just wanted to pick yourbrain and just ask you some
questions.
So I appreciate you jumping onand yeah, so let's have a little
bit of a backstory.
I always love to get an originstory.
So what got you into socialwork in the first place?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh, I'm going to take you way back then, that's okay.
I was a senior in high school2006.
So now you know my age and myaccount got hit by a tornado.
Oh, and my town got hit by atornado and it was I remember it
being like the first week ofMarch, because it had snowed the
(01:52):
week before.
So it was just wacky weatherand the tornado caused a lot of
damage and we were out of powerfor a whole week and out of
school for a whole week and outof school for a whole week and,
um, I just remember thecommunity just really coming
(02:16):
together and one of the thingsthat we we had to do um was
because our power went out.
We had to throw out all of ourfood out of our yeah so um, that
was the first time I ever wentto a soup kitchen and I was able
to kind of just really see howthe community came together and
helped people and started askingmore questions about you know
(02:37):
what these people do, what theirtitles are.
And I met a community socialworker, yeah.
(03:07):
And so then I started to askquestions with my school
counselor, Just curious aboutlike all the different types of
helping fields I know.
From then I knew I was like Ireally want to make a difference
, I want to really help people,and so I was able to sit down
and talk with a psychologist, acounselor and a social worker
and in college I was apsychology major initially I had
my mind made up that I wasgoing to do industrial
psychology.
I really like finances.
I've always liked finances andbusiness.
The psychology behind businessseemed appealing to me, so I
(03:32):
took the class.
I dropped that class.
I didn't drop that many classesin college but I dropped that
class.
I found it really boring.
I was sitting down talking tomy counselor, she said why don't
you consider social work?
Because I told her that Iwanted to like be out in the
field to help people like I.
(03:53):
I had learned more about theindustrial psychology being more
about research and I was like Ireally want to work with people
.
So she said, take classes andsocial work and I fell in love
with it so that was mid in yourbachelor's you.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You switched into social work, or okay, all right
cool and then um, and then fromthere, you graduated with your
bachelor's in social work allright and then you decided you
wanted.
When did you decide you want toget your master's?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
uh, pretty much my junior year I think I was in.
I was still an undergrad.
Um, yeah, I said to learn moreabout, like the different types
of social workers and um, I wasreally interested in school.
So I in my state.
Um at the time where I wasstudying in illinois, you have
to have your master's.
Um At the time where I wasstudying in Illinois, you had to
(04:50):
have your master's in socialwork to practice in the schools.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Okay, so did you do the advanced standing and went
right into your master's program, or did you do the traditional
path?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Okay, okay, yeah, um, I did advanced standing but, um
, the uh school social work, uhspecialty, it didn't really
matter if you were advancedsitting or not, it was still
going to be two years becausethey wanted to do a full, like a
full academic year okay, yeah,all right, so then you.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So then you did your master's program.
Did you go right into the fieldor did you?
Well, I guess you had to gointo the field a little bit
before you get your LCSW.
But what was your first job outof grad school?
School, social worker?
Oh, school, okay, yeah.
What level of school were you?
High school?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
My internship was in middle and then I got a role in
elementary and fell in love withit.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, okay, so you're working in a school setting.
Can you give kind of a day inthe life of what it was like to
be as a master social worker atan elementary school?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Can't give you a typical day, because no day is
typical, right.
But what was consistent wasthat I had a caseload of
students who had individualizededucational plans.
Students who had individualizededucational plans.
So they were part of thespecial education program and
(06:29):
the 504 accommodation programand I worked with those students
who had social emotional needsand we coordinated with the team
and worked on a specific goalaround their social emotional
needs and I would feed themdepending on their needs.
(06:53):
Some kids I saw every day.
Some kids I saw once a week.
Some kids I saw like twice aweek.
So it's just based off of theirneeds.
Consulted with teachers andgave them behavioral health
support and tips.
Did interventions with firststudents who needed additional
(07:17):
support behaviorally ran groups.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
So yeah, Never a dull moment, it sounds like right no
no, so, uh, so did you.
Uh, did you immediately startworking on your lcsw?
Um, right, right, when youfirst started, okay yeah, how
long did it take for you to getthat um two and a half years,
okay.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So yeah, I was very lucky to have my supervisor, who
also was a clinical, clinicalsocial worker and she had worked
in the school, helped superviseme, did that?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
mm-hmm.
So what?
How long did you work in theschool?
Are you still in the schoolsystem?
Not?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
anymore.
Okay, so I've done a mix.
So I started in school and thenmy husband had a job
opportunity out of state andmoved for that opportunity and
at that point I honestly was alittle burned out from school.
But I wanted to work in adifferent field and by that time
(08:29):
I had my clinical license.
So that definitely opened thedoor for me to work in a variety
of different settings.
So then I couldn't run awayfrom the action.
I went to the hospital worked inthe hospital, worked in the ER
worked in the health unit and Ilearned a lot I learned a lot,
um, you know, in that role, um,so I did that and then I ended
(08:53):
up going back to school after Ihad my daughter for a little bit
yeah what were you going toschool for?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
the, the second go-round?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
oh, I mean I went back to the school setting oh,
the school setting okay okayyeah and uh, while I was doing
that.
I my um.
One of my close friends startedher own um mental health
organization and clinic and so Istarted doing that on the side.
So that's when I starteddipping more into the telehealth
(09:24):
side of therapy.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, so it was kind of a slow progression and it
sounds like from what I'vetalked to a lot of different
social workers is that you knowevery career trajectory is very
different and you know, like you, it is kind of rocky sometimes
or you start, start with onevision or one goal and then you
end up in a completely differentdirection.
But that's the beauty.
(09:50):
I think the beauty of socialwork to me is that you know you
can, you can go into differentdirections and you know, like I
originally wanted to work at theVA, that was like my whole.
I had tunnel vision on I'mgoing to work at the VA, I got
my internship there.
I had I didn't really have abackup plan, to be honest.
I was like I'm going to work atthe VA and did my internship
(10:11):
and then, sure enough, therewasn't an open position that
lined up at the end of myinternship.
So I was kind of like, well,now what do I do, you know?
And then, sure enough, hospitalsocial work kind of came to the
rescue and so I've been doingthat for a while and yeah, and
(10:33):
then I got into, I got curiousabout well, you know, a little
bit of a backstory about me isthat I've always been interested
in personal finance and justyou know all that stuff, so I'm
just nerdy about that.
But when I found out about theCenter for Financial Social Work
, I was immediately like this isawesome, I have to know this, I
have to do this.
And so I kind of went down thatrabbit hole of certified
(10:53):
financial social work.
So I am curious to kind of seewhere did you fall into that and
how did you get interested intothe or get your certification?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
into the or get your certification.
Yeah, so I like you.
I've always been interested inpersonal finance and business
entrepreneurship, and so, whileI was gaining the experience
that I shared with you before, Iwas still like helping my loved
ones with like their budget andgiving them tips on how to
better manage their personalfinances, and listening to
(11:27):
personal finance podcast for fun, so everyone knew that I was a
finance nerd.
So, during the COVID lockdown mysister-in-law actually found
the Center of Financial SocialWork and she sent me the link.
She was like I think you wouldreally like this.
(11:50):
I went and started thecertification during lockdown
and got certified by 2021.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Okay, yeah, so you've been certified for a couple of
years now.
Have you been able to use it,like maybe in your private
practice, or are you doing anytype of specific financial
counseling in your practice?
Or or, however you, how are youactually implementing it in
today?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I'm implementing it in a variety of ways in my
private practice.
I offer financial coaching toindividuals and I also offer a
financial coaching group.
I actually have one coming up inSeptember on September 11th,
that I'm opening up to thecommunity, and then in my
(12:47):
psychotherapy part of mypractice, I help clients whose
main stress is related tofinances Okay, whose main stress
is related to finances Okay.
And then I also do psychevaluations for people who are
going through immigration courtand I've done a few evaluations
(13:11):
around financial hardship beingone of the reasons.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Okay, well, that's a very broad variety of use cases
that you've managed to implement.
So that's really cool Because,like part of me, you know, like
I'm kind of like still new tothe, you know, financial, social
work realm and I've beenlooking at different things,
like you said, like trying grouppractices or a private practice
or coaching, and you know, sofar I'm still working on the
(13:38):
building the infrastructure ofkind of doing that.
But you know, like you, I'vebeen the unofficial finance
person that people would want toeither ask for advice or then I
would give unsolicited advice.
But I would try.
You know, I learned that whenit comes to finances, you got to
tread cautiously especially.
You know I learned that when itcomes to finances, you got to
(13:59):
tread cautiously especially youknow if, because it is so
personal and because there isthat stigma, you know, a lot of
times, even when people are indire straits financially, they
don't want to talk about it orthey don't want to actually do
the work.
And you know like it's.
It's like, I mean just likewith regular you know therapy.
(14:20):
Sometimes people are thereeither begrudgingly or almost
like they they're like beingtold to be there, or you know
their spouses is forcing them tocome.
So but yeah, I think when youdo meet the right person in the
right place, then it could bereally transformational.
So that's kind of where I'mhoping to find those people who
(14:42):
are you know, they know theyneed the help, but they're also
willing to do the work.
Because you know, as you'veprobably seen, and I've come
across it too that you can givepeople the full roadmap, the
game plan, everything, all thesteps that they need to do.
But the behavioral side of thepsychological side of personal
(15:04):
finance is just really difficultfor some people to overcome.
Have you found some goodstrategies or techniques that
you've found in your practicethat is helpful with kind of
breaking down some of thosebarriers?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
that you've found in your practice that is helpful
with kind of breaking down someof those barriers.
Yeah, I think, like you said,talking about finances is taboo
in a lot of cultures, and onething that I've realized is that
knowing that it's a difficultconversation to have with
clients realized is that knowingthat it's a difficult
(15:41):
conversation to have withclients.
I'd like to learn more abouttheir story first around how and
what they thought about moneylike in childhood, starting in
childhood and kind of gettingtheir perspective on what money
meant to them, growing up, um inattitudes and values that not
(16:02):
only they may have been taughtlike within their household, but
even society.
Um, and having thatconversation first before we
jump into hey, let's, let's do abudget.
Yeah, people need to, like yousaid, you have to have buy-in,
you have to have engagement, andpeople like talking about
(16:26):
themselves, they like to have aspace where they can express
their experiences, and so Ithink starting there definitely
helps with the motivation partof like doing the work.
(16:46):
They know why they're doing thework you know we're having
conversations of why.
Why it's important for you tomake this change before we jump
into that part.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.
So I'm curious if you've, uh,have you, have you had any light
bulb moment?
Or have you helped a clienthave their light bulb moment and
see that them kind of light upand realize, oh, this is what
I've been doing wrong the wholetime, or anything like that, or
even maybe just a small lightbulb moment?
Is there anything that youcould share or any experience
(17:19):
that you've had with that.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So I also do lunch and learn for different
organizations and last fall Idid a continuing ed or like
lunch and learn for the NationalAssociation of Social Workers
in North Carolina and we talkedabout financial social work.
And two things that I foundreally interesting was that out
(17:49):
of the huge group that sat in onthe presentation, like half of
them hadn't even heard offinancial social work.
They're very clear around it.
And then two we ended and Ithought it was gonna have a lot
like a lot more questions, butwe had a very deep conversation
around how finances and talkingabout finances um is taboo in
(18:14):
the social work field and howwe're kind of looked at as
martyrs and just we should justbe happy with whatever we get.
But yeah, end of the day, weprovide, we provide a value to
society and, um, we, we shouldbe compensated for it, just like
other professions, exactly,yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
But yeah, we talked, we talked about like how this is
taboo to ask for a raise or tonegotiate your salary, to raise
your rate, like the thing thatkind of comes around, like doing
all those things as a socialworker, um yeah, yeah, yeah, and
I have talked to other socialworkers too that, yeah, like you
(19:01):
mentioned, the martyr, martyrkind of feeling of like, well,
I'm not in this for the money,I'm in this, you know, to make a
difference, and that's reallygreat and noble and everything,
but we still have bills to pay.
We have the same kind of studentdebt that other other
professions have, if not more so.
So, yeah, I think it is part ofthe conversation that we need
to have, if not more so, um, soyeah, I think it is part of the
conversation that we need tohave collectively as a, as a
(19:22):
profession, you know to, to, tojustify, you know that we are,
we deserve a fair wage and andwe deserve, if anything, we
deserve more than than whatwe're collectively making.
Because I'm I'm in the jobmarket now looking at different
uh, you know, looking atdifferent opportunities and I'm
seeing a master's level jobsthat are that are paying 40, 50,
(19:45):
45,000 a year and I'm just likethat's not, that's not right it
just doesn't seem right, youknow.
Um so I'm glad that that otherother people are having that
conversation and I think youknow, um, you know, like, with
the interstate compact, maybe wecan start talking about like
just raising, just generally,how much social workers get paid
(20:07):
.
I don't I don't know howexactly that would look seem
like there's a little bit ofresistance or hesitance to ask
for a raise or even to turn downa job because they're not
paying as much as you feel likeyou deserve.
(20:29):
That the, the edge, the um,educational, like the college
level, the cswe level, can startincorporating you know,
different um, differenteducational aspects to new
social workers.
That says, okay, this is howyou, this is how you negotiate
(20:50):
for a job, I mean for, uh, youknow your salary, like things
like that.
That would be useful for youbecause I never had that kind of
guidance.
You know, or even nowadays, youknow, a lot of social workers
are more entrepreneurial, youknow, and they're trying to
start their own business and youknow we don't get any exposure
to to.
(21:10):
You know how to start abusiness or how to do an LLC.
I had to do.
You know, I'm basically doingall this myself, trying to, you
know, learn it as I go.
So that's why you know I was, Iwas really hoping, I'm hoping
to, like you know, partner upwith other social workers and
really get, get you know, havethe conversations and start
getting it out there that youknow we, we do deserve, we
(21:32):
deserve our fair wage and wejust, you know we deserve to to.
Not, I would say, demand like,but kindly request that we, we
get a raise.
Sometimes you know and not feelashamed or are embarrassed
about that.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .
Even in like some of the the Idon't know if you're part of any
like professional groups likeon Facebook.
I don't know if you're part ofany like professional groups
like on Facebook, but there'sbeen even conversations around
just the huge discrepancybetween a master's level social
(22:06):
worker by state, how much theyget paid.
And I just find that sointeresting because we still
provide a value and, um, youknow, we, we help people, heal
and that that's.
That is that I mean, we, wechange people's lives we help
(22:30):
them be better people yeah
Speaker 2 (22:32):
and advocate for themselves, and yeah, so, and I
mean let's, let's let's work out, you in there, right, I mean,
let's be, and I was.
I was just thinking about thisbrainstorming the other day, but
like, if let's say you, you,you gave across the board social
workers, let's say, a crazynumber like six figures, which I
feel like we deserve.
Just think about how muchhappier social workers would be.
(22:56):
For one we would be able toprovide much better care because
we're not worried about our ownbills or our own financial
stresses.
And then, you know, it'll alsoencourage people to want to join
the social work field.
You know like it would be a a.
You know they're like, hey,social work, we're helping
people, but we're also gettingpaid, you know yeah so that's uh
.
It's one of those things where,like, I don't know how that
(23:16):
would work or how that wouldlook, but I think just at our
level, at my level, justbasically asking for a fair wage
and then hopefully just kind ofslowly increasing that salary
so it'll get higher and higheracross the board, the board, um,
(23:42):
but yeah, so, so, uh, so,financial social work, um, you
know that's uh, that's obviouslya passion for you.
Um, what are your uh?
Are you, do you have any anyfuture aspirations?
Or?
Or you know you have, um, youdo have a private practice.
Is that uh?
Is that in person or is thatjust uh?
Is that online?
At this point, it's online,okay, yeah.
So, yeah, I was going to reallyquickly just show, um, you know,
(24:04):
share your.
Let's see, I wanted tohighlight your, your page, and
and so you're basically you saidout of North Carolina, correct?
Yeah?
But I've moved a lot in my life, so I'm I'm gonna do some out
of state okay, yeah, and thatyou know, and that ties back to
(24:26):
the um, uh, the interstatecompact, you know like yeah you
know, uh, the gettingreciprocity, like you already
have done that, but hopefullywhen this, when that rolls out,
we can all open up privatepractices online.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
You know um yeah and once again bring in some extra
money, which we all would loveto have yeah, but yeah, uh, so
the part I mean we can have awhole another episode about that
(25:05):
, but um reciprocity you oh yougot over from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, wow, okay, my test scores.
Oh, you did licensed inMississippi and moved to
Tennessee and then, yeah, likeit wasn't necessarily starting
from scratch.
That sounds like you'redescribing, but yeah, it was.
It was a lot of work, you know,um, so I definitely, uh, I'm
glad that they're working on thereciprocity, uh, the interstate
compact, so, uh, so, yeah, sothis is um, you know, wow, you
(25:32):
do have a lot of uh client uh,illinois, iowa, um, minnesota,
wisconsin, north Carolina, southCarolina, lot of uh, illinois,
iowa, minnesota, wisconsin,north carolina, south carolina,
virginia, florida and vermont.
Wow, you, you really havetraveled um.
So that that's really cool thatyou can, you can provide those
services to all those differentuh states.
Uh, are you currently takingclients at this point or um?
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, I am taking science in all three of my
specialties.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
So so you have been yeah, Wow, that's pretty
impressive.
So serving finance, so you can.
So as a coach, you can do thatin all 50 states, right yeah.
Okay, so that's, that'ssomething that I'm curious.
I was curious about, you know,if that I'd heard with coaching,
that yeah, you can do it indifferent states.
(26:26):
I just I didn't know if thatwas a for sure In you know,
because I think one thing aboutfinancial social work is that a
lot of people don't know aboutit as much.
So when people say, oh, you'rea certified financial social
worker, they don't really knowwhat that entails.
(26:47):
So I think part of theeducation piece and what I've
been trying to also highlight,all the financial social workers
in the field and they're outthere doing, uh, doing the work,
like this is what we do.
You know Um and uh, and, ifit's, if it's, you know, um,
providing the coaching privatepractice type of coaching or um,
(27:09):
you know, uh, like basically,what you're doing is is you're
providing that online, correct?
Like financial coaching?
Okay, yeah, I guess, uh, maybeyou should.
You can create your own uh,financial coaching private
practice and then take me underyour wing because apparently we
(27:29):
have, we have shared interestsand uh, you know, like, I don't
have the, the uh, total, uhlevel of experience that you
have.
But, like said, I'm trying tolearn from other people and just
highlight what other socialworkers are doing out there in
the world, and I just love whatyou're doing.
(27:50):
So you actually provide afinancial wellness checkup.
So what does?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
that look like?
Yeah, I partner with BudgetSimple, so what does that look
like?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, I partner with Budget.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Simple and I helped draft one of the
self-assessments on just howeducated people are with their
finances and their attitudesaround their finances.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Okay, that's cool.
I don't know if I'd heard aboutthat one before.
I'm going to have to messaround with that and learn more
about that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
That's cool.
I don't know if I'd heard aboutthat one before.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I'm going to have to mess around with that and learn
more about that.
Yeah, that's cool.
So what has been the mostimpactful, I guess?
Do you have any success storiesthat you would like to maybe
highlight, or you know justsomething that makes you feel
good when you think about?
You know, as a you don't haveto give any details, obviously
(28:45):
of a client but you know, justin general, is there anything
that you think fondly ofwhenever you think about people
that you've helped?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I just love to see people's growth from you know,
when we first meet, to theinsight that they've gained, the
skills that they learn and theytell me about, like applying
outside of therapy I was I wouldlike to hear that um and um,
advocacy and um, sometimes my uhspecialty of financial stress
(29:15):
and life stressors intersect.
Financial stress and lifestressors intersect.
I've noticed that in a few ofmy clients and so we've done
some self exploratory exercisesto really help people make sure
that their values align withtheir financial goals and
sometimes some of my clients thegoal is more increasing, like
(29:39):
their self-esteem andself-advocacy, and I definitely
can apply to finances.
So helping you know, encouragingthem to you know, keep track of
(30:05):
you know what they've done andmy thoughts on that and use that
as data to advocate, for youknow what they need and what
they want in relationships oreven, um, in career.
I have a lot of conversationswith clients about their career
yeah yeah and uh.
(30:26):
Yeah, you know, I've I some ofmy.
I've had a client who wastransitioning from um two income
to one income because ofdivorce, um.
Another client, um, who wasmaking the most money they've
ever made in their life and kindof dealing with imposter
syndrome like, oh man, do Ireally deserve this role, do I
(30:47):
deserve this money?
And clients that aretransitioning from working full
time to retirement, making surethat their their money moves
aligned with what they reallyenvision and what they value and
want post-retirement um, in thespace to kind of process that
(31:11):
too yeah, yeah, it sounds like,uh, it really highlights to me
the, the missing components oftraditional financial planning.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
You know, like CFPs and nothing against the whole
industry, like the financialindustry, but there's a lot of
the human element that's missingfrom, you know, like those
financial planners and financial, you know all the different
three and four letter acronymsand I feel like that's what
really drew me to financialsocial work is that it really
(31:45):
highlights the human element offinances, because we're human
and finances are just one ofthose things that we just we're
not.
Usually we don't have greatrole models, usually growing up
we don't have great role modelsusually growing up Society
doesn't really help Some of theexpectations and what we're
programmed to want financially.
(32:06):
And then you get down into thenitty-gritty of your everyday
financial life and a lot oftimes people are like I think I
know what I'm doing but I'm notreally sure.
So I think that's where I thinkfinancial social work could be
really helpful to a lot ofpeople.
You know, just to kind ofhumanize and normalize finances
(32:30):
and really, like you saidearlier, destigmatize finances
and really like just normalize,like hey, finances are not
always fun, you know, and it'stough and so, you know, by by
having these tough conversations, um it, it can really, um, you
know, just like that light bulbmoment, or even just you know
(32:52):
that person that, uh, that feelsthat imposter syndrome about
getting a raise, and there's awhole, there's a dynamic there,
you know like that that thatthat can a lot of people can
probably resonate with.
And I have heard that there.
There, you know people.
When they make a certain amountof money, they, you know, more
than they could ever imagine ormore than they can ever spend.
(33:13):
There's kind of a shame or anembarrassment almost, because
they're like, well, my familydoesn't have this kind of money
and and you know so.
Then you feel you know a littlebit of shame there where you're
like, well, do I deserve thismoney?
Yeah, so there, yeah, there's alot that, a lot there.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
So I'm glad you brought that up, yeah, and I
that's one thing I really likeabout like being a social worker
, this in general, like youreally look at the whole person
and it's really important, likeif you're going to advise
somebody to make decisions withsomething that is already hard
to have a conversation aboutwhich is money?
(33:51):
I think it's important to havebuy-in and to know, like, what
is important to that personbefore you tell them what to do
with their money.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I think that's also the difference between a
financial advisor or they'retelling you what you should do
with your money, whereas I feellike we're trying to just guide
them to what do you want to dowith your money, what feels
right to you, instead of saying,like, what do you want to do
with your money?
What is what is what feels rightto you, instead of like saying,
oh, you need to put this amountin this account.
(34:25):
Or you know, like, okay, thenuts and bolts part of finances
is one thing, but yeah, likepeople want to have that buy-in,
like you said, of like now Iunderstand why I want to save up
aggressively for a retirement,or I don't want to save up
aggressively for retirementretirement, or I don't want to
save up aggressively forretirement.
You know like, I think that'swhere the traditional financial
world just misses a lot of that.
(34:46):
So, so, hopefully, you know,and one thing that I've tried to
do is really try to advocate myfellow social workers, you know
like, hey, financial socialwork we need to be talking about
these things because we are onthe front lines a lot, a lot of
times.
So, I've been really pushing forfor all my social workers and
(35:07):
on my network to to at leastlook into it.
You know you don't have to getcertification, but I would
encourage people to do that.
Um, but one thing I reallyliked and I'm you know I'm not
here to necessarily plug the theprogram, but you know it, it
you put you, you're goingthrough your own financial
healing process through theprogram.
You know and that's that's worththe weight of the word, the
(35:32):
cost right there, you know, um,but yeah, so I can go on a all
kinds of rants about that allday, but yeah, I just wanted to
just thank you.
I know you've got a little bit,we've got a few minutes left,
and so your website iscouragetothealorg and so that's
(35:53):
where people can find you.
Are you on any kind of socials?
Are you doing anything likethat, or are you kind?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
of I'm trying.
I'm on TikTok and YouTube shortand you can find me under a
financial social worker.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Nice, okay, yeah, and I mean, like I said, you know
social media is not necessarilymy strong suit, but you know, I
see it as part of the macrothing of like you know, we can.
We can reach more eyeballs andmore ears by getting it out
there, as as uncomfortable as itmay be.
But you know, it's a goodmessage and I feel like we
should, we should just be, youknow, trying to spread the,
(36:33):
spread the gospel and and try toheal as many people as possible
through their finances or withtheir finances.
I totally agree, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
I think, since financial social work is a
relatively young specialty insocial work, I think it's really
important for us to continue toshare our experiences, but
share with others what we do,and what our goals are, so they
can also see.
Hey, like this is another formof social work to either aspire
(37:10):
to be or to use as a resource,you know so.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Well, we're out there fighting the good fight and I
just wanted to say thank you foryou're spending your time and,
you know, like advocating forfinancial social work and doing
what you do.
I know you're you're you're onthe ground, you're you're, you
know you're in the trenches andyou're you're doing the work.
So I appreciate that and I will, I will highlight you and your
(37:38):
efforts and you know we can,hopefully, and and your efforts
and we, you know we canhopefully we'll be able to work
together and, you know,collaborate again in the future.
And, you know, just keep theconversation going.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Well, thank you so much, Joey, for having me.
It's been a pleasure to talk toyou, of course.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, well, of course , of course, all right.
Well, I respect your time and Iknow you got places to be.
I've got a four year old that'sbeen banging on the door for a
little while now, wanting toplay with that.
The struggle is real.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yes, yes, all right.
Well, thank you yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, thank you, constance, and that's going to
be it for for the fire socialworkers show.
If you're interested infinancial social work or you're
a financial social worker, youwant to be on the show, let me
know.
Until the next time, I will seeyou guys on the next stream.
Bye.
All right.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hello everyone, this is the Fire Social Workers Show.
I just wanted to jump in andsay hello to everyone out there.
Just got done with the previousstream for military broadcast
radio and now we have we're kindof I'm putting on my social
worker hat and we're going totalk to a fellow social worker
(00:24):
We'll go and bring on, and hername is Constance McDonald.
So, constance, how are youdoing?
I'm good.
How are you doing?
I'm doing good, I'm doing good.
So we kind of been trying tocoordinate this for a little
while, and you know whatschedule is.
It's always a littlechallenging, but just wanted to
thank you for coming on, and youknow.
So, just to give a little bitof background, you are a
(00:45):
licensed clinical social workerwith a private practice and then
you're also a certifiedfinancial social worker correct.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's that's how Idiscovered you on LinkedIn.
I was just trying to.
I'm also, honestly, I'm tryingto learn about financial social
work because I'm still new tothe, to the, to the field and
you and I'm also still kind ofnew to social work.
(01:08):
So I'm always trying to networkand learn and grow and develop.
So I just wanted to pick yourbrain and just ask you some
questions.
So I appreciate you jumping onand yeah, so let's have a little
bit of a backstory.
I always love to get an originstory.
So what got you into socialwork in the first place?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh, I'm going to take you way back then, that's okay.
I was a senior in high school2006.
So now you know my age and myaccount got hit by a tornado.
Oh, and my town got hit by atornado and it was I remember it
being like the first week ofMarch, because it had snowed the
(01:52):
week before.
So it was just wacky weatherand the tornado caused a lot of
damage and we were out of powerfor a whole week and out of
school for a whole week and outof school for a whole week and,
um, I just remember thecommunity just really coming
(02:16):
together and one of the thingsthat we we had to do um was
because our power went out.
We had to throw out all of ourfood out of our yeah so um, that
was the first time I ever wentto a soup kitchen and I was able
to kind of just really see howthe community came together and
helped people and started askingmore questions about you know
(02:37):
what these people do, what theirtitles are.
And I met a community socialworker, yeah.
(03:07):
And so then I started to askquestions with my school
counselor, Just curious aboutlike all the different types of
helping fields I know.
From then I knew I was like Ireally want to make a difference
, I want to really help people,and so I was able to sit down
and talk with a psychologist, acounselor and a social worker
and in college I was apsychology major initially I had
my mind made up that I wasgoing to do industrial
psychology.
I really like finances.
I've always liked finances andbusiness.
The psychology behind businessseemed appealing to me, so I
(03:32):
took the class.
I dropped that class.
I didn't drop that many classesin college but I dropped that
class.
I found it really boring.
I was sitting down talking tomy counselor, she said why don't
you consider social work?
Because I told her that Iwanted to like be out in the
field to help people like I.
(03:53):
I had learned more about theindustrial psychology being more
about research and I was like Ireally want to work with people
.
So she said, take classes andsocial work and I fell in love
with it so that was mid in yourbachelor's you.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
You switched into social work, or okay, all right
cool and then um, and then fromthere, you graduated with your
bachelor's in social work allright and then you decided you
wanted.
When did you decide you want toget your master's?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
uh, pretty much my junior year I think I was in.
I was still an undergrad.
Um, yeah, I said to learn moreabout, like the different types
of social workers and um, I wasreally interested in school.
So I in my state.
Um at the time where I wasstudying in illinois, you have
to have your master's.
Um At the time where I wasstudying in Illinois, you had to
(04:50):
have your master's in socialwork to practice in the schools.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Okay, so did you do the advanced standing and went
right into your master's program, or did you do the traditional
path?
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Okay, okay, yeah, um, I did advanced standing but, um
, the uh school social work, uhspecialty, it didn't really
matter if you were advancedsitting or not, it was still
going to be two years becausethey wanted to do a full, like a
full academic year okay, yeah,all right, so then you.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So then you did your master's program.
Did you go right into the fieldor did you?
Well, I guess you had to gointo the field a little bit
before you get your LCSW.
But what was your first job outof grad school?
School, social worker?
Oh, school, okay, yeah.
What level of school were you?
High school?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
My internship was in middle and then I got a role in
elementary and fell in love withit.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, okay, so you're working in a school setting.
Can you give kind of a day inthe life of what it was like to
be as a master social worker atan elementary school?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Can't give you a typical day, because no day is
typical, right.
But what was consistent wasthat I had a caseload of
students who had individualizededucational plans.
Students who had individualizededucational plans.
So they were part of thespecial education program and
(06:29):
the 504 accommodation programand I worked with those students
who had social emotional needsand we coordinated with the team
and worked on a specific goalaround their social emotional
needs and I would feed themdepending on their needs.
(06:53):
Some kids I saw every day.
Some kids I saw once a week.
Some kids I saw like twice aweek.
So it's just based off of theirneeds.
Consulted with teachers andgave them behavioral health
support and tips.
Did interventions with firststudents who needed additional
(07:17):
support behaviorally ran groups.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
So yeah, Never a dull moment, it sounds like right no
no, so, uh, so did you.
Uh, did you immediately startworking on your lcsw?
Um, right, right, when youfirst started, okay yeah, how
long did it take for you to getthat um two and a half years,
okay.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So yeah, I was very lucky to have my supervisor, who
also was a clinical, clinicalsocial worker and she had worked
in the school, helped superviseme, did that?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
mm-hmm.
So what?
How long did you work in theschool?
Are you still in the schoolsystem?
Not?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
anymore.
Okay, so I've done a mix.
So I started in school and thenmy husband had a job
opportunity out of state andmoved for that opportunity and
at that point I honestly was alittle burned out from school.
But I wanted to work in adifferent field and by that time
(08:29):
I had my clinical license.
So that definitely opened thedoor for me to work in a variety
of different settings.
So then I couldn't run awayfrom the action.
I went to the hospital worked inthe hospital, worked in the ER
worked in the health unit and Ilearned a lot I learned a lot,
um, you know, in that role, um,so I did that and then I ended
(08:53):
up going back to school after Ihad my daughter for a little bit
yeah what were you going toschool for?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
the, the second go-round?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
oh, I mean I went back to the school setting oh,
the school setting okay okayyeah and uh, while I was doing
that.
I my um.
One of my close friends startedher own um mental health
organization and clinic and so Istarted doing that on the side.
So that's when I starteddipping more into the telehealth
(09:24):
side of therapy.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, so it was kind of a slow progression and it
sounds like from what I'vetalked to a lot of different
social workers is that you knowevery career trajectory is very
different and you know, like you, it is kind of rocky sometimes
or you start, start with onevision or one goal and then you
end up in a completely differentdirection.
But that's the beauty.
(09:50):
I think the beauty of socialwork to me is that you know you
can, you can go into differentdirections and you know, like I
originally wanted to work at theVA, that was like my whole.
I had tunnel vision on I'mgoing to work at the VA, I got
my internship there.
I had I didn't really have abackup plan, to be honest.
I was like I'm going to work atthe VA and did my internship
(10:11):
and then, sure enough, therewasn't an open position that
lined up at the end of myinternship.
So I was kind of like, well,now what do I do, you know?
And then, sure enough, hospitalsocial work kind of came to the
rescue and so I've been doingthat for a while and yeah, and
(10:33):
then I got into, I got curiousabout well, you know, a little
bit of a backstory about me isthat I've always been interested
in personal finance and justyou know all that stuff, so I'm
just nerdy about that.
But when I found out about theCenter for Financial Social Work
, I was immediately like this isawesome, I have to know this, I
have to do this.
And so I kind of went down thatrabbit hole of certified
(10:53):
financial social work.
So I am curious to kind of seewhere did you fall into that and
how did you get interested intothe or get your certification?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
into the or get your certification.
Yeah, so I like you.
I've always been interested inpersonal finance and business
entrepreneurship, and so, whileI was gaining the experience
that I shared with you before, Iwas still like helping my loved
ones with like their budget andgiving them tips on how to
better manage their personalfinances, and listening to
(11:27):
personal finance podcast for fun, so everyone knew that I was a
finance nerd.
So, during the COVID lockdown mysister-in-law actually found
the Center of Financial SocialWork and she sent me the link.
She was like I think you wouldreally like this.
(11:50):
I went and started thecertification during lockdown
and got certified by 2021.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Okay, yeah, so you've been certified for a couple of
years now.
Have you been able to use it,like maybe in your private
practice, or are you doing anytype of specific financial
counseling in your practice?
Or or, however you, how are youactually implementing it in
today?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I'm implementing it in a variety of ways in my
private practice.
I offer financial coaching toindividuals and I also offer a
financial coaching group.
I actually have one coming up inSeptember on September 11th,
that I'm opening up to thecommunity, and then in my
(12:47):
psychotherapy part of mypractice, I help clients whose
main stress is related tofinances Okay, whose main stress
is related to finances Okay.
And then I also do psychevaluations for people who are
going through immigration courtand I've done a few evaluations
(13:11):
around financial hardship beingone of the reasons.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Okay, well, that's a very broad variety of use cases
that you've managed to implement.
So that's really cool Because,like part of me, you know, like
I'm kind of like still new tothe, you know, financial, social
work realm and I've beenlooking at different things,
like you said, like trying grouppractices or a private practice
or coaching, and you know, sofar I'm still working on the
(13:38):
building the infrastructure ofkind of doing that.
But you know, like you, I'vebeen the unofficial finance
person that people would want toeither ask for advice or then I
would give unsolicited advice.
But I would try.
You know, I learned that whenit comes to finances, you got to
tread cautiously especially.
You know I learned that when itcomes to finances, you got to
(13:59):
tread cautiously especially youknow if, because it is so
personal and because there isthat stigma, you know, a lot of
times, even when people are indire straits financially, they
don't want to talk about it orthey don't want to actually do
the work.
And you know like it's.
It's like, I mean just likewith regular you know therapy.
(14:20):
Sometimes people are thereeither begrudgingly or almost
like they they're like beingtold to be there, or you know
their spouses is forcing them tocome.
So but yeah, I think when youdo meet the right person in the
right place, then it could bereally transformational.
So that's kind of where I'mhoping to find those people who
(14:42):
are you know, they know theyneed the help, but they're also
willing to do the work.
Because you know, as you'veprobably seen, and I've come
across it too that you can givepeople the full roadmap, the
game plan, everything, all thesteps that they need to do.
But the behavioral side of thepsychological side of personal
(15:04):
finance is just really difficultfor some people to overcome.
Have you found some goodstrategies or techniques that
you've found in your practicethat is helpful with kind of
breaking down some of thosebarriers?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
that you've found in your practice that is helpful
with kind of breaking down someof those barriers.
Yeah, I think, like you said,talking about finances is taboo
in a lot of cultures, and onething that I've realized is that
knowing that it's a difficultconversation to have with
clients realized is that knowingthat it's a difficult
(15:41):
conversation to have withclients.
I'd like to learn more abouttheir story first around how and
what they thought about moneylike in childhood, starting in
childhood and kind of gettingtheir perspective on what money
meant to them, growing up, um inattitudes and values that not
(16:02):
only they may have been taughtlike within their household, but
even society.
Um, and having thatconversation first before we
jump into hey, let's, let's do abudget.
Yeah, people need to, like yousaid, you have to have buy-in,
you have to have engagement, andpeople like talking about
(16:26):
themselves, they like to have aspace where they can express
their experiences, and so Ithink starting there definitely
helps with the motivation partof like doing the work.
(16:46):
They know why they're doing thework you know we're having
conversations of why.
Why it's important for you tomake this change before we jump
into that part.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.
So I'm curious if you've, uh,have you, have you had any light
bulb moment?
Or have you helped a clienthave their light bulb moment and
see that them kind of light upand realize, oh, this is what
I've been doing wrong the wholetime, or anything like that, or
even maybe just a small lightbulb moment?
Is there anything that youcould share or any experience
(17:19):
that you've had with that.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So I also do lunch and learn for different
organizations and last fall Idid a continuing ed or like
lunch and learn for the NationalAssociation of Social Workers
in North Carolina and we talkedabout financial social work.
And two things that I foundreally interesting was that out
(17:49):
of the huge group that sat in onthe presentation, like half of
them hadn't even heard offinancial social work.
They're very clear around it.
And then two we ended and Ithought it was gonna have a lot
like a lot more questions, butwe had a very deep conversation
around how finances and talkingabout finances um is taboo in
(18:14):
the social work field and howwe're kind of looked at as
martyrs and just we should justbe happy with whatever we get.
But yeah, end of the day, weprovide, we provide a value to
society and, um, we, we shouldbe compensated for it, just like
other professions, exactly,yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
But yeah, we talked, we talked about like how this is
taboo to ask for a raise or tonegotiate your salary, to raise
your rate, like the thing thatkind of comes around, like doing
all those things as a socialworker, um yeah, yeah, yeah, and
I have talked to other socialworkers too that, yeah, like you
(19:01):
mentioned, the martyr, martyrkind of feeling of like, well,
I'm not in this for the money,I'm in this, you know, to make a
difference, and that's reallygreat and noble and everything,
but we still have bills to pay.
We have the same kind of studentdebt that other other
professions have, if not more so.
So, yeah, I think it is part ofthe conversation that we need
to have, if not more so, um, soyeah, I think it is part of the
conversation that we need tohave collectively as a, as a
(19:22):
profession, you know to, to, tojustify, you know that we are,
we deserve a fair wage and andwe deserve, if anything, we
deserve more than than whatwe're collectively making.
Because I'm I'm in the jobmarket now looking at different
uh, you know, looking atdifferent opportunities and I'm
seeing a master's level jobsthat are that are paying 40, 50,
(19:45):
45,000 a year and I'm just likethat's not, that's not right it
just doesn't seem right, youknow.
Um so I'm glad that that otherother people are having that
conversation and I think youknow, um, you know, like, with
the interstate compact, maybe wecan start talking about like
just raising, just generally,how much social workers get paid
(20:07):
.
I don't I don't know howexactly that would look seem
like there's a little bit ofresistance or hesitance to ask
for a raise or even to turn downa job because they're not
paying as much as you feel likeyou deserve.
(20:29):
That the, the edge, the um,educational, like the college
level, the cswe level, can startincorporating you know,
different um, differenteducational aspects to new
social workers.
That says, okay, this is howyou, this is how you negotiate
(20:50):
for a job, I mean for, uh, youknow your salary, like things
like that.
That would be useful for youbecause I never had that kind of
guidance.
You know, or even nowadays, youknow, a lot of social workers
are more entrepreneurial, youknow, and they're trying to
start their own business and youknow we don't get any exposure
to to.
(21:10):
You know how to start abusiness or how to do an LLC.
I had to do.
You know, I'm basically doingall this myself, trying to, you
know, learn it as I go.
So that's why you know I was, Iwas really hoping, I'm hoping
to, like you know, partner upwith other social workers and
really get, get you know, havethe conversations and start
getting it out there that youknow we, we do deserve, we
(21:32):
deserve our fair wage and wejust, you know we deserve to to.
Not, I would say, demand like,but kindly request that we, we
get a raise.
Sometimes you know and not feelashamed or are embarrassed
about that.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah .
Even in like some of the the Idon't know if you're part of any
like professional groups likeon Facebook.
I don't know if you're part ofany like professional groups
like on Facebook, but there'sbeen even conversations around
just the huge discrepancybetween a master's level social
(22:06):
worker by state, how much theyget paid.
And I just find that sointeresting because we still
provide a value and, um, youknow, we, we help people, heal
and that that's.
That is that I mean, we, wechange people's lives we help
(22:30):
them be better people yeah
Speaker 2 (22:32):
and advocate for themselves, and yeah, so, and I
mean let's, let's let's work out, you in there, right, I mean,
let's be, and I was.
I was just thinking about thisbrainstorming the other day, but
like, if let's say you, you,you gave across the board social
workers, let's say, a crazynumber like six figures, which I
feel like we deserve.
Just think about how muchhappier social workers would be.
(22:56):
For one we would be able toprovide much better care because
we're not worried about our ownbills or our own financial
stresses.
And then, you know, it'll alsoencourage people to want to join
the social work field.
You know like it would be a a.
You know they're like, hey,social work, we're helping
people, but we're also gettingpaid, you know yeah so that's uh
.
It's one of those things where,like, I don't know how that
(23:16):
would work or how that wouldlook, but I think just at our
level, at my level, justbasically asking for a fair wage
and then hopefully just kind ofslowly increasing that salary
so it'll get higher and higheracross the board, the board, um,
(23:42):
but yeah, so, so, uh, so,financial social work, um, you
know that's uh, that's obviouslya passion for you.
Um, what are your uh?
Are you, do you have any anyfuture aspirations?
Or?
Or you know you have, um, youdo have a private practice.
Is that uh?
Is that in person or is thatjust uh?
Is that online?
At this point, it's online,okay, yeah.
So, yeah, I was going to reallyquickly just show, um, you know,
(24:04):
share your.
Let's see, I wanted tohighlight your, your page, and
and so you're basically you saidout of North Carolina, correct?
Yeah?
But I've moved a lot in my life, so I'm I'm gonna do some out
of state okay, yeah, and thatyou know, and that ties back to
(24:26):
the um, uh, the interstatecompact, you know like yeah you
know, uh, the gettingreciprocity, like you already
have done that, but hopefullywhen this, when that rolls out,
we can all open up privatepractices online.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
You know um yeah and once again bring in some extra
money, which we all would loveto have yeah, but yeah, uh, so
the part I mean we can have awhole another episode about that
(25:05):
, but um reciprocity you oh yougot over from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, wow, okay, my test scores.
Oh, you did licensed inMississippi and moved to
Tennessee and then, yeah, likeit wasn't necessarily starting
from scratch.
That sounds like you'redescribing, but yeah, it was.
It was a lot of work, you know,um, so I definitely, uh, I'm
glad that they're working on thereciprocity, uh, the interstate
compact, so, uh, so, yeah, sothis is um, you know, wow, you
(25:32):
do have a lot of uh client uh,illinois, iowa, um, minnesota,
wisconsin, north Carolina, southCarolina, lot of uh, illinois,
iowa, minnesota, wisconsin,north carolina, south carolina,
virginia, florida and vermont.
Wow, you, you really havetraveled um.
So that that's really cool thatyou can, you can provide those
services to all those differentuh states.
Uh, are you currently takingclients at this point or um?
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, I am taking science in all three of my
specialties.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
So so you have been yeah, Wow, that's pretty
impressive.
So serving finance, so you can.
So as a coach, you can do thatin all 50 states, right yeah.
Okay, so that's, that'ssomething that I'm curious.
I was curious about, you know,if that I'd heard with coaching,
that yeah, you can do it indifferent states.
(26:26):
I just I didn't know if thatwas a for sure In you know,
because I think one thing aboutfinancial social work is that a
lot of people don't know aboutit as much.
So when people say, oh, you'rea certified financial social
worker, they don't really knowwhat that entails.
(26:47):
So I think part of theeducation piece and what I've
been trying to also highlight,all the financial social workers
in the field and they're outthere doing, uh, doing the work,
like this is what we do.
You know Um and uh, and, ifit's, if it's, you know, um,
providing the coaching privatepractice type of coaching or um,
(27:09):
you know, uh, like basically,what you're doing is is you're
providing that online, correct?
Like financial coaching?
Okay, yeah, I guess, uh, maybeyou should.
You can create your own uh,financial coaching private
practice and then take me underyour wing because apparently we
(27:29):
have, we have shared interestsand uh, you know, like, I don't
have the, the uh, total, uhlevel of experience that you
have.
But, like said, I'm trying tolearn from other people and just
highlight what other socialworkers are doing out there in
the world, and I just love whatyou're doing.
(27:50):
So you actually provide afinancial wellness checkup.
So what does?
Speaker 1 (27:55):
that look like?
Yeah, I partner with BudgetSimple, so what does that look
like?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, I partner with Budget.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Simple and I helped draft one of the
self-assessments on just howeducated people are with their
finances and their attitudesaround their finances.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Okay, that's cool.
I don't know if I'd heard aboutthat one before.
I'm going to have to messaround with that and learn more
about that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
That's cool.
I don't know if I'd heard aboutthat one before.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I'm going to have to mess around with that and learn
more about that.
Yeah, that's cool.
So what has been the mostimpactful, I guess?
Do you have any success storiesthat you would like to maybe
highlight, or you know justsomething that makes you feel
good when you think about?
You know, as a you don't haveto give any details, obviously
(28:45):
of a client but you know, justin general, is there anything
that you think fondly ofwhenever you think about people
that you've helped?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I just love to see people's growth from you know,
when we first meet, to theinsight that they've gained, the
skills that they learn and theytell me about, like applying
outside of therapy I was I wouldlike to hear that um and um,
advocacy and um, sometimes my uhspecialty of financial stress
(29:15):
and life stressors intersect.
Financial stress and lifestressors intersect.
I've noticed that in a few ofmy clients and so we've done
some self exploratory exercisesto really help people make sure
that their values align withtheir financial goals and
sometimes some of my clients thegoal is more increasing, like
(29:39):
their self-esteem andself-advocacy, and I definitely
can apply to finances.
So helping you know, encouragingthem to you know, keep track of
(30:05):
you know what they've done andmy thoughts on that and use that
as data to advocate, for youknow what they need and what
they want in relationships oreven, um, in career.
I have a lot of conversationswith clients about their career
yeah yeah and uh.
(30:26):
Yeah, you know, I've I some ofmy.
I've had a client who wastransitioning from um two income
to one income because ofdivorce, um.
Another client, um, who wasmaking the most money they've
ever made in their life and kindof dealing with imposter
syndrome like, oh man, do Ireally deserve this role, do I
(30:47):
deserve this money?
And clients that aretransitioning from working full
time to retirement, making surethat their their money moves
aligned with what they reallyenvision and what they value and
want post-retirement um, in thespace to kind of process that
(31:11):
too yeah, yeah, it sounds like,uh, it really highlights to me
the, the missing components oftraditional financial planning.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
You know, like CFPs and nothing against the whole
industry, like the financialindustry, but there's a lot of
the human element that's missingfrom, you know, like those
financial planners and financial, you know all the different
three and four letter acronymsand I feel like that's what
really drew me to financialsocial work is that it really
(31:45):
highlights the human element offinances, because we're human
and finances are just one ofthose things that we just we're
not.
Usually we don't have greatrole models, usually growing up
we don't have great role modelsusually growing up Society
doesn't really help Some of theexpectations and what we're
programmed to want financially.
(32:06):
And then you get down into thenitty-gritty of your everyday
financial life and a lot oftimes people are like I think I
know what I'm doing but I'm notreally sure.
So I think that's where I thinkfinancial social work could be
really helpful to a lot ofpeople.
You know, just to kind ofhumanize and normalize finances
(32:30):
and really, like you saidearlier, destigmatize finances
and really like just normalize,like hey, finances are not
always fun, you know, and it'stough and so, you know, by by
having these tough conversations, um it, it can really, um, you
know, just like that light bulbmoment, or even just you know
(32:52):
that person that, uh, that feelsthat imposter syndrome about
getting a raise, and there's awhole, there's a dynamic there,
you know like that that thatthat can a lot of people can
probably resonate with.
And I have heard that there.
There, you know people.
When they make a certain amountof money, they, you know, more
than they could ever imagine ormore than they can ever spend.
(33:13):
There's kind of a shame or anembarrassment almost, because
they're like, well, my familydoesn't have this kind of money
and and you know so.
Then you feel you know a littlebit of shame there where you're
like, well, do I deserve thismoney?
Yeah, so there, yeah, there's alot that, a lot there.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
So I'm glad you brought that up, yeah, and I
that's one thing I really likeabout like being a social worker
, this in general, like youreally look at the whole person
and it's really important, likeif you're going to advise
somebody to make decisions withsomething that is already hard
to have a conversation aboutwhich is money?
(33:51):
I think it's important to havebuy-in and to know, like, what
is important to that personbefore you tell them what to do
with their money.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I think that's also the difference between a
financial advisor or they'retelling you what you should do
with your money, whereas I feellike we're trying to just guide
them to what do you want to dowith your money, what feels
right to you, instead of saying,like, what do you want to do
with your money?
What is what is what feels rightto you, instead of like saying,
oh, you need to put this amountin this account.
(34:25):
Or you know, like, okay, thenuts and bolts part of finances
is one thing, but yeah, likepeople want to have that buy-in,
like you said, of like now Iunderstand why I want to save up
aggressively for a retirement,or I don't want to save up
aggressively for retirementretirement, or I don't want to
save up aggressively forretirement.
You know like, I think that'swhere the traditional financial
world just misses a lot of that.
(34:46):
So, so, hopefully, you know,and one thing that I've tried to
do is really try to advocate myfellow social workers, you know
like, hey, financial socialwork we need to be talking about
these things because we are onthe front lines a lot, a lot of
times.
So, I've been really pushing forfor all my social workers and
(35:07):
on my network to to at leastlook into it.
You know you don't have to getcertification, but I would
encourage people to do that.
Um, but one thing I reallyliked and I'm you know I'm not
here to necessarily plug the theprogram, but you know it, it
you put you, you're goingthrough your own financial
healing process through theprogram.
You know and that's that's worththe weight of the word, the
(35:32):
cost right there, you know, um,but yeah, so I can go on a all
kinds of rants about that allday, but yeah, I just wanted to
just thank you.
I know you've got a little bit,we've got a few minutes left,
and so your website iscouragetothealorg and so that's
(35:53):
where people can find you.
Are you on any kind of socials?
Are you doing anything likethat, or are you kind?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
of I'm trying.
I'm on TikTok and YouTube shortand you can find me under a
financial social worker.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Nice, okay, yeah, and I mean, like I said, you know
social media is not necessarilymy strong suit, but you know, I
see it as part of the macrothing of like you know, we can.
We can reach more eyeballs andmore ears by getting it out
there, as as uncomfortable as itmay be.
But you know, it's a goodmessage and I feel like we
should, we should just be, youknow, trying to spread the,
(36:33):
spread the gospel and and try toheal as many people as possible
through their finances or withtheir finances.
I totally agree, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
I think, since financial social work is a
relatively young specialty insocial work, I think it's really
important for us to continue toshare our experiences, but
share with others what we do,and what our goals are, so they
can also see.
Hey, like this is another formof social work to either aspire
(37:10):
to be or to use as a resource,you know so.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Well, we're out there fighting the good fight and I
just wanted to say thank you foryou're spending your time and,
you know, like advocating forfinancial social work and doing
what you do.
I know you're you're you're onthe ground, you're you're, you
know you're in the trenches andyou're you're doing the work.
So I appreciate that and I will, I will highlight you and your
(37:38):
efforts and you know we can,hopefully, and and your efforts
and we, you know we canhopefully we'll be able to work
together and, you know,collaborate again in the future.
And, you know, just keep theconversation going.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Well, thank you so much, Joey, for having me.
It's been a pleasure to talk toyou, of course.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, well, of course , of course, all right.
Well, I respect your time and Iknow you got places to be.
I've got a four year old that'sbeen banging on the door for a
little while now, wanting toplay with that.
The struggle is real.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Yes, yes, all right.
Well, thank you yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, thank you, constance, and that's going to
be it for for the fire socialworkers show.
If you're interested infinancial social work or you're
a financial social worker, youwant to be on the show, let me
know.
Until the next time, I will seeyou guys on the next stream.
Bye.
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