October 24, 2025 • 45 mins
Former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo discusses the New York City mayoral race, his policy proposals, and the danger he sees in electing his opponent, democratic socialist Zohran Mamdani.
With Election Day approaching, Cuomo lays out his potential path to victory and challenges Mamdani’s plans to address affordability concerns. He also comments on broader divisions in the Democratic Party.
Running as an independent after losing to Mamdani in the Democratic primary, Cuomo argues his experience as governor has prepared him to defend against threats from President Trump, and he warns Trump would use Mamdani’s election as an excuse to take over the city.
Cuomo, who resigned as governor in 2021 amid allegations of sexual harassment, explains why he now regrets stepping down and responds to questions about how he has changed and what he has learned.
Support for Firing Line with Margaret Hoover is provided by Robert Granieri, The Tepper Foundation, Vanessa and Henry Cornell, The Fairweather Foundation, and Pritzker Military Foundation.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
If Zoran Mandami wins the election, Donald Trump will take
over New York City. It'll be the perfect excuse for
the president to do what he wants to do on what would be
Mayor Mandami's inaugural day. You will see tanks coming down
5th Ave. with Donald Trump taking a selfie in front of
(00:22):
Trump Tower and it will be mayhem.
That's former New York governor and current New York City
mayoral candidate Andrew Cuomo warning that electing his
opponent could lead to disaster.I'm Margaret Hoover.
This is THE FIRING Line podcast.With Election Day less than two
(00:44):
weeks away, Andrew Cuomo is making his final pitch to voters
that he is best suited to handleNew York City's problems.
It's not about the thrill of winning an election, been there,
done that. It's not about the thrill of
title, been there, done that, right?
It's about the consequences. It's an argument that didn't
(01:06):
work in the Democratic primary, when he lost to democratic
socialist Zoran Mamdani. If you want.
A candidate for mayor who tells you everything that he cannot
do. Then Andrew Cuomo should be your
choice. He is excited young people, but
do they know what freeze the rent means?
Or free buses? What that actually means?
(01:28):
Now running as an independent, Cuomo is trying to put the
scandals that ended his tenure as governor behind him.
I did nothing wrong, so why resign?
Well, because of this distraction, it would have been
improving. I did nothing wrong.
But has he learned anything fromthat dramatic downfall?
(01:48):
There are women who are afraid of the opposition and they want
to support you, but they're looking for contrition.
Oh, Margaret, I get it. I get it.
What? Can you tell them so that they
are convinced that you get it? Governor Andrew Cuomo, welcome
to FIRING LINE Pleasure. As this interview airs, we are
(02:12):
entering the final stretch for the mayor's race and you are the
underdog. What is your path to victory?
Common sense, Common sense. I think New Yorkers understand
that they need a mayor who actually knows how to do the
job. You know, this city has real
problems. And I think New Yorkers want
(02:33):
someone who they know will actually make government work
and make a change in their lives.
And that means you have to have someone who has the experience
in the qualifications to make the government operate.
You know, we've picked mayors inthe past who have no management
experience whatsoever, and it's been a disaster.
(02:54):
So I think they've learned from that.
They know me as governor. They know I get things done.
I ran the state. I built major projects.
And I think they want someone who's going to make a real
change in New York. And I think that's me.
So why are you the underdog? Well, there's it's a three
person. And I don't like that word.
Well, it's a three person race and you have a Republican who
(03:16):
has some Republican votes. My opponent in the Democratic
primary who's actually a democratic socialist is on the
Democratic line. I'm a Democrat on an independent
line. So I think, you know, people are
still sorting that out. So the current mayor of the
city, Mayor Eric Adams, has endorsed you if you welcome his
(03:37):
endorsement. I welcome his endorsement.
He is seen to many as a Trump flaky.
Does that bother you? I disagreed with what the mayor
did with President Trump. I made that quite clear.
But Mayor Adams is a Democrat. I'm a Democrat, and I think he's
going to be very helpful in explaining to it to the people
(03:58):
of New York City what it means to be a Democrat and what it
means to be a democratic socialist and what it means to
have the skills to run this city.
So I welcome his support. What did Mayor Adams get for his
endorsement of you? He didn't get anything except I
think he believes that. Well, I know he believes that
Zoran Mandami is an existential threat to New York, and he's
(04:21):
worked with me as governor. He was a senator.
He knows that I know how to govern and he loves New York.
You have said you're not a socialist, you're not anti
police, you're not anti Israel is your pitch to voters.
I'm not mom, Donnie. Margaret, the important point
here, I think is you're seeing acivil war in the Democratic
(04:42):
Party, not just in New York. It's going on nationwide.
You have the Democratic Socialists of America, DSA, This
is the extreme far left of the Democratic Party that has been
growing in support over the years.
This is Bernie Sanders, AOC, thesocialist wing.
Zoran Mandami is part of that. And then you have mainstream
(05:06):
Democrats, which I represent, Myfather represented, Bill Clinton
represented, Barack Obama represented, and the far left is
challenging the Democratic Partyto take over the Democratic
Party. They have different views and a
different philosophy. Yes, they have the word Democrat
in front of their name, but theyhave nothing to do with the
(05:28):
Democratic Party as far as I'm concerned.
He won the primary, He beat you in the Democratic primary
largely because of identifying this issue of affordability, the
crisis of affordability, and because of his authenticity.
But it was his big ideas, which I know are not ideas you agree
with. What are your big ideas?
(05:48):
Yeah, First identified an issue called affordability.
Affordability has been an issue for the Democratic Party for 40
years, right? It is the constant issue so.
It's different right now though.I mean, look, Donald Trump, it
was about affordability, right? You're speaking to the
(06:09):
disenfranchised middle class. Donald Trump identified the
issue. We had a similar trite answer.
The damn elected price of eggs and gasoline will go down.
No explanation as to how, but heconnected with the issue.
And in some ways, that's how superficial our politics has
(06:29):
become. Affordability for Zoran Mandami.
I will freeze the rent. Oh great.
That means my rent is going to be frozen.
Actually, no. Only about 25% of the rental
units, housing units are what they call rent stabilized.
And you can freeze those rents for a period of time and then
(06:50):
they compound and they actually increase.
And for the 75% of the market, it does nothing.
It's not a new idea. Bill de Blasio did it.
It didn't work in, it won't worknow, but it has a superficial
appeal, like Trump saying the price of eggs will come down.
So with respect, Governor, what you just did when I asked you
(07:14):
what your big ideas were is thatyou defined yourself against the
backdrop of what you're not. You took his ideas and
dismantled them, which I know you disagree with, and you
should. What are your big ideas?
Number one, it's about public safety.
Everything starts with public safety.
We went through a period in thiscity where the geniuses defunded
the police, literally took a billion dollars out of the
(07:37):
police, driven by the socialist.We now have the lowest number of
police officers in New York Cityin modern political history.
You have to increase the Police Department.
I want to add 5000 cops, 1500 inthe subways.
Affordability. The only way to bring rents down
is to increase supply. You have a 1% vacancy rate in
housing to get the gimmicks, build more affordable housing,
(08:01):
get it done. Competent government.
You need 500,000 units to reallyincrease the supply where you're
going to see rents drop, which means we have to have hundreds
of projects ongoing and and, andefficiency in government we
haven't seen in a long, long time.
I think those are the two cornerstones.
(08:25):
Third, it's about jobs, jobs, jobs.
And we have to say to this business community that we have
been harassing for years and nowthey are leaving New York, we
have to say we get it, we want you here.
We need you here. Democratic Party believes in
(08:46):
jobs and opportunity. It's the engine that drives the
train and we understand that. The cost of taxes and
regulations in New York has gotten too high.
What is if you can in one word? And I know you don't like short
answers, but can you sum up yourvision of life in New York City
(09:07):
if you are the mayor in one or two or three words?
My family's safe. I believe my child's going to do
better through a public education system.
I believe that I have a career path in New York City and I love
the energy and I love the environment and I love the
(09:28):
diversity of New York. What's the reverse?
What is your vision for the cityif Mamdani wins the Merrill T?
Businesses leave, wealth leaves.That's a death spiral for an
urban area. Wealth leaves, you have to cut
services. You cut services, quality of
life deteriorates, more wealth leaves, more businesses leave.
(09:54):
What happens to crime? Or crime goes up because you're
cutting the police, cut the police, crime goes up, more
wealth leaves. Which is what is happening now,
right? We don't have to guess.
It is what is happening to New York now.
There is an exodus of wealthy people but also middle class
(10:15):
working families, exodus of businesses and that will
accelerate and that is what theycall the urban death spiral.
You're riding on experience. Take the issue of affordability.
Explain to viewers why your experience governing as an
executive makes you better equipped to tackle the
(10:39):
affordability crisis than somebody who has been a member
of the state legislature. To deal with affordability,
there are first you need to passseveral pieces of legislation.
I think we should lower taxes and eliminate taxes for low
income New Yorkers. I think we should pass what's
called the property tax cap. I passed it for the rest of the
(11:01):
state. New York City mayor didn't want
it. I would pass a property tax cap
for homeowners, no more than a 2% increase per year.
It would be great for homeowners.
And then you have to build housing.
To build housing, you need to know how to put together a
financing plan, deal with the legislative body, the City
Council, get it passed. Deal with community opposition.
(11:23):
Because in New York City, whatever you go to do, there's
going to be community opposition.
Pick a developer quickly withoutgetting ripped off, and then
supervise the construction of the project.
That is the management necessaryto build affordable housing, and
that is different than a set of legislative skills to articulate
(11:49):
and get a piece of legislation passed.
I just think it's difficult for people who don't understand the
complexity of the municipality that is the largest city in the
country to understand why the management is so important and
why, why. I mean, Zoran Mandami has done a
very good job of of of being quick on his feet and standing
(12:13):
up against you on a debate stage.
And that's done a lot to allay people's concerns that he isn't
experienced enough. We're talking about management
skills and I think a clearer vision of what exactly is needed
to manage a city with $115 billion budget, 300,000
employees with a really strong mural T This is not just a
figurehead. Is there anything else that
(12:35):
strikes you about where experience could make a
difference in the lives of ordinary New Yorkers?
Well, when you sit in the mayor's seat, you sit in the
governor's seat of New York, other executives on any given
morning, anything can happen. Any given morning can be another
(12:58):
Hurricane Sandy can be another. COVID can be, God forbid,
another 911. There is no on the job training
for those things, Margaret, and eight and a half million lives
are in your hands and you have to respond like that.
And if you have not been throughthat and you don't know how to
(13:18):
do it, you're not going to learnin a briefing in the 1st 20
minutes, I guarantee you that. In the first debate against you,
he said, Quote what? I don't have an experience.
I make up for an integrity, and what you don't have an
integrity, you could never make up for an experience.
(13:41):
Yeah, he is a nice Riddle. I don't know what he.
How do you respond? I mean, how do you respond to
the charge that integrity is more important than experience?
Yeah, and plus, where is his integrity?
The man lies like a rug. You know, If he is smiling, he
is lying, they say, And it's true in the debate and you can
(14:03):
get away with it. He has said things on Twitter,
on video that he just denies saying.
And so integrity. I haven't seen any from the man.
You have called him extreme overthe course of the race.
Your campaign has introduced policies to tackle
(14:25):
affordability, of course, which he identified in the in the
primary as a as a major concern.His he supports universal
childcare supporters noticed that you also introduced a
universal 3K. He wants to raise the minimum
wage to $30. You later proposed $20.
Mamdani wants free buses and it it seems as though your platform
(14:46):
includes an openness to some free buses, pending some
examination of its efficacy, Curtis Sliwa said.
You're Zoran Light. Yeah, whatever.
Curtis Sliwa, that's a separate,separate topic, but let's just
(15:07):
go through what you said. As are you, I mean, the question
is, are you adopting versions ofhis ideas that are and if they,
if you are, are they that extreme?
Yeah, I've actually done all thethings that he is proposing.
I brought Universal pre-K to thestate of New York.
I piloted Universal 3K New York State.
(15:30):
I'm in New York City. I'm saying we should have
Universal three. Ki passed the highest minimum
wage law in the United States ofAmerica at $15.00 an hour.
I'm saying now we should bring it to 20.
He's saying 30, 30 you could never get past and you should
never get it passed because you put a lot of businesses out of
(15:50):
business very quickly. So everything he's talking about
I actually have done already. Is he that extreme then?
Well, the difference between $20.00 an hour minimum wage and
$30.00 an hour is a big difference.
One is feasible, 1 is not feasible, right?
(16:12):
The minimum wage is a balance. Yes, you want to rate, you can
raise it and you want to raise it.
But if you raise it too high, too fast, you will be literally
doubling the payroll of companies and you will put
companies out of business. That's the extremism and that's
(16:33):
the lack of experience that I'm talking about.
Yeah, 30 sounds better than 20. By the way, 40 sounds better
than 30. Make it $50.00 an hour.
Make it $100.00 an hour. If you don't know what you're
talking about, you know the bigger number sounds better.
In a recent interview, it was onThe View when you were asked by
(16:58):
the ladies why you're losing to a democratic socialist.
You said that it's because people don't understand.
What is it that people don't understand?
I don't think they understand the difference between
democratic socialist and mainstream Democrats, and I
don't think they understand whatthe Democratic Socialist Party
(17:20):
stands for. I don't think they understand
what the socialist theory of theeconomy is, where they are
saying government should controlthe means of production.
Government should own all land, no private ownership of land.
The American dream of home ownership, it's gone.
(17:43):
It didn't work in Venezuela, it didn't work in Cuba, it didn't
work in Chicago. It's not going to work here.
Some of the polls have him as high as 50%.
Now that those are outliers, butit's a large number of people
who are supporting him. Did that many people not
understand what you've just outlined, do you think?
I'm yes, I believe most people do not understand.
(18:04):
They respond to what you were talking about.
He is glib. He is facile.
He has been extraordinary on social media, credit where
credit is due and TikTok. And he is excited.
Young people, the 20 to 30 generation turned out in
(18:25):
historic numbers and that's all to his credit.
But do they know what freeze therent means or free buses, what
that actually means? A grocery store, government run
grocery store in every borough. We have his affordability
(18:49):
answer. Food is expensive.
We will have New York City open a grocery store in every
borough. So we're in Manhattan, one
grocery store in Manhattan run by New York City and they will
be open to everyone, rich people, poor people, and it will
(19:12):
be cheaper. The food will be cheaper because
the New York City government will run it more efficiently
than the private sector. It's laughable.
There was 16,000 grocery stores in New York City.
You're going to add five run by government?
(19:32):
That's the answer. It's it is ridiculous, but do
people understand it? No free buses.
Great. It's been tried, it's been done.
They turned into mobile homelessshelters, but it sounds great.
Are you concerned when you say they don't understand?
It might come across as a littlecondescending.
(19:55):
They don't understand the depth,but there is no discussion on
the depth. It's just the expression frees
the rent. But do you understand what I'm
saying? I mean, a lot of people like the
idea when you say they don't understand.
That can feel condescending to people.
I don't think they would like the idea if they understood the
(20:19):
details of the idea. When you say freeze the rent, I
like that. I trust me.
I'm sympathetic to your policy position, but when you say
people don't understand, they hear somebody saying they don't
know what they're talking about.They feel like you don't
understand. I don't think they have heard
the full proposal. If you hear the headline, yes,
(20:44):
But if you read the story, then it's going to be different.
They have not heard the story because they're not told.
The story has nothing to do withpeople.
Frankly, if it has anything to do with anything, it has to do
with the press and the lack of rigor in the political press
that we now see. 10 years ago they didn't let you get away
(21:08):
with. There's some really good
reporting on rent stabilization and rent freezing and how it
actually in the long run, this is what you got in the debate
last night, that actually it, itdelays investment in the
buildings. Ultimately it ends up being more
expensive. I mean, I think there has been
some good reporting of that. I just think when people here,
they don't understand. They think he doesn't understand
me. They also think he thinks I'm
(21:30):
stupid. It has nothing to do with them.
It has to do with the political process that lets you get away
with three words without explaining yourself.
After you lost the primary, you acknowledged you needed to run a
very different kind of campaign.In the first debate, when you
were asked what you learned fromlosing the primary, you
(21:51):
mentioned social media, that your opponent had distinguished
himself a social media. Is it more than that or is it
just the videos? No, I said it was more than
that, right, If you listen to the debate.
Trust me. Then you know it was a family
event. All right then, you know, I said
more than that. I said social media, which did
(22:13):
make it. He he did very well on social
media. I also said that I wasn't, I
didn't make myself available enough.
I wasn't present enough. Beyond political tactics, did
you learn anything about the voters in that process?
Did you learn anything about yourself in that process?
(22:37):
I learned nothing that I didn't know.
You know, I'm a New Yorker. I talk to New Yorkers all day
long. I think the fear factor is much
higher. I think that's a recent
development. I think that's tied to President
Trump, but I think that's ratcheted way up since President
(22:59):
Trump came in, started sending the National Guard.
What's happening with the Department of Justice, I think
that fear factor is, is way up that that is probably the most
dramatic shift for me. Did you learn anything about
yourself in the primary? I learned I didn't know what I
(23:23):
was talking about with social media.
I, I learned, well, that's understatement.
I'll offend the social media team.
We had a social media team. They were very good.
We needed, we needed to do more in that area.
I learned that I should have been more physically present,
(23:49):
shown up more places, touched more people directly.
Those are tactics. What about yourself in terms of
self reflection? I didn't learn that much more
about myself, you know, it's probably my 8th, 9th campaign,
you know, so. The reason I ask this, I think
there are people who are watching you run this campaign
(24:09):
and they wonder if you want it as badly as Momdani clearly
does. Is the fire in the belly for you
the way it has been in previous campaigns?
The fire in the belly is probably stronger because the
stakes are higher. I think we're talking about the
future of the city of New York. I think you're at a crossroad
(24:33):
and you can see this city dramatically decline and quickly
decline. Take a ride to Chicago.
It can happen very quickly and it is happening already, which
is what people don't get. Or I think there is an upside
(24:54):
where you can have a city betterand stronger than we have seen
in decades. I think those are the stakes and
those are the options. So to me, it's more urgent.
You know, when I was running forre election as governor, I knew
the state was doing well. And, you know, one way or the
other, life would go on as we know it.
(25:18):
I don't know that life goes on as we know it in New York City.
You start to lose more businesses, you start to lose
more people. Crime goes up higher.
Margaret, it's a really potentially frightening
situation. So that's what drives me, right?
(25:40):
At this point in my career, I was a cabinet secretary, I was
attorney general, governor of the state of New York.
It's not about the thrill of winning an election.
Been there, done that. It's not about the thrill of
title. Been there, done that, right?
(26:03):
Federal Cabinet secretary is thehighest position.
I was that in my 40s. So it's not about the thrill.
It's about the consequences and how I think I can make a
difference. I think I can make a dramatic
difference in the trajectory of New York City.
(26:24):
And I think that the variable onthat trajectory is all the
difference in the world. Your opponent has been reaching
out to people. He's met with rabbis who are
concerned that he's anti-Semitic.
He has met with business leaderswho are concerned about his
association with Democratic socialists.
He has gone on Fox News who somesay would like to make him an
(26:48):
albatross for the Democratic Party.
He is seen as somebody who is building bridges and reaching
out. Are you doing enough of that?
Because your opponent said it took him feeding you in a
primary to get you to show up ata mosque?
Is that true? And are you doing enough of
that? Yeah.
Well, is it true? No, it's not true.
(27:11):
Had you been to a mosque before the primary?
Sure. But am I reaching out more to
the Muslim community? Yes.
Why? Because that's a base of votes.
That's very important. He is a Muslim.
And yes, I would like to get a share of that vote.
What's your? Argument to them.
(27:31):
What's your pitch? My pitch is the same across the
board. Who can do more for you?
Who will help you and your family more with your problems
and pick that person. And I believe if you look at my
(27:52):
plan and my proposals and my experience, my ability and what
I've actually achieved, I will do more for you.
Your family will. The life of your family will be
better four years from now if I am mayor.
He reaches out to the Jewish community because the Jewish
community is very suspect of him, right?
(28:15):
That's why he's doing that. If you had President Trump on
the phone right now, you're mayor of New York.
What do you say to him? I say before you do anything
crazy, call me and let's talk. If you come up with one of your
advisors walks in and says I think we should do XY and Z in
(28:39):
New York, before you do anything, call me because I
don't want to have a problem. But you don't want to have a
problem, so call me first, please.
By the way, this came up in the debate.
What's up with the phone call that you say you didn't?
(29:01):
Have a phone call. I just, I know you're a lawyer
so I wonder, was it a text? Was it Adm?
There was no. Was it a, was it a FaceTime?
It's it's three people have saidthere was a call.
Maybe they were wrong as a call.Was there some kind of
communication? There was a newspaper report
that said three people said there was no phone call.
(29:24):
There's no text. Yeah, there was no DM.
Was there communication? There's been no communication
between. No carriers yelling, no
megaphone. I'm talking between you and
Trump, yes. No communication between you
and. Trump No Electronic written.
More slow. More slow.
(29:44):
See, I feel like you're qualifying it, though.
Are you parsing it in some way? You have not communicated in any
way with Donald Trump. Hand signals No.
Semaphores. Nothing.
OK. Why'd you resign as governor?
Because there were allegations made which I said were political
(30:05):
at the time and it was going to be a political mess in Albany,
had a very sensitive time and itwould have been a distraction to
state government. And I believe in government and
state government and I would thelast thing I would do, it would
(30:28):
be a distraction to the proper functioning of government.
I said the report was political.I said it was false.
There was no truth. I did nothing wrong.
But it would have to be sorted out, right?
And it went. We sent the five district
(30:49):
attorneys, Democrat, Republican,short, tall, all across the
state. They all looked at it.
They said there was no there there.
We then litigated it for four years.
There was no there there. I was dropped from the cases so
it is what I said it was. You said last May in a interview
before the primary that you'd quote, actually heard your
(31:11):
father's voice at the time. He had passed away at the time.
And I heard his voice. And he said, look, public
service is about serving the public.
And if you're going to be in a position where you're actually
going to be a distraction from government functioning, then you
should step aside. In that same interview, it was
with Barry Weiss, who's now, of course, the editor in chief of
CBS. You said in that same interview
(31:32):
in retrospect, that you shouldn't have resigned.
Well, here's the yin and the Yang.
The yes, it took four years to actually deconstruct the report
that was done right and it took lawyers and it took depositions
(31:57):
and witnesses, etcetera. So it took four years to prove
there was no there there. Those four years, this would
have been a constant distractionto state government because it
was the height of the Me Too movement.
And this is sexy. And so on one hand, resign, my
(32:19):
father would say, because you'regoing to be this is going to be
a major distraction for four years.
The legislature will use it as an excuse.
Your effectiveness will be impeded.
That's the Yang. The Yang is I did nothing wrong
and I was doing a very good job as governor, and I wanted to
(32:43):
finish the job as governor. That's the Yang.
I did nothing wrong, so why resign?
Well, because of this distraction it would have been
in proving I did nothing wrong. Have you learned anything?
(33:04):
I think I learned a painful expensive lesson that there you
have to be hyper cautious alwaysbecause there is a new cultural
sensitivity that people may feeland if they feel it, it is, it
(33:30):
is real you. You may not intend to offend the
person, you may think you're complimenting a person, but
there is a cultural sensitivity,so be very careful about
everything you say. I may say blue looks good on
(33:54):
you, or you take that a different way, say nothing.
Forget blue, red, green. Yeah.
So you, you're saying you've become, are you saying you've
become more sensitive to maybe acultural sensibility that you
weren't attuned to? Here's why I'm asking.
I, I want to just be very clear.I'm asking because I think that
(34:16):
there are are women and I think there are Democrats, and I think
particularly Democratic women who are afraid of the opposition
and they want to support you, but they're looking for
contrition. They're looking to see that
you've self reflected on your behavior and that you've
learned. Oh, Margaret, I get it.
I get it. What can you tell them so that
(34:38):
they're convinced that you get it?
I my, I get it in that I am so hyper cautious now by the way, I
won't meet with a person alone anymore.
I won't meet with a person who Idon't know unless I have a
(34:59):
witness. I won't kiss a person on the
cheek unless they initiate a kiss on the cheek, you know?
Does that mean you regret some of your previous behavior?
Oh well, to the I, I regret thatthe entire situation what
happened does that. Mean you've changed your
(35:20):
behaviour. That's not the same, because
it's not the same thing. You said you don't even initiate
a kiss now, I mean, so does thatmean you regret some of your
previous behaviour? Well, I, when I, well, literally
the situation was I said to a woman, may I kiss you on the
cheek? She said yes and I kissed her on
the cheek. But yeah, I won't even do that.
I won't comment on anyone's appearance.
(35:43):
So I'm hyper cautious and I get it well, because whatever
sensitivity level you have is should be respected.
And there is a much higher levelof sensitivity and I think it
(36:07):
is. I think it was increasing
dramatically, especially at thattime, and I understood it
intellectually, but practically I wasn't as cautious as I should
(36:27):
be. You've heard your opponent
saying no means no as a reference to your past with
women, without even explicitly calling it out.
Does it bother you? No, because that is such an
absurd look. He has a problem with the truth.
My opponent, right The a kiss ona cheek.
(36:51):
You want to suggest that that has anything to do with no
means? No.
I mean, obviously it's just a cheap, political, nasty comment,
which he is very good at. And then he'll deny it the next
day. In 1977, your father ran for
mayor of New York City against Ed Koch.
(37:12):
Koch One went on to serve 3 terms in office.
She also made several appearances on Firing Line.
And I want you to look at a clipfrom him in 1984 with William F
Ackley Junior. The primaries regrettably bring
out the most militant in both primaries, the Republican and
Democratic. In the Republican, it would be
(37:32):
the most right wing. In the Democratic primary, the
most liberal or militantly liberal come out and have a
greater impact on that primary than the broad number of
Democrats, who are basically mainstream and much closer to
the center. Well, I think what the mayor,
(37:56):
Mayor Koch, God rest his soul, said applies very much to today,
except it's worse today. The primaries have fewer people
voting. Part of it is we change the
date. Campaign finance reform and rank
(38:16):
choice voting have made it even more complicated.
But the basic dynamic is right. Frankly, it started with the
Republican Party. First it was the Tea Party.
And I remember a lot of colleagues of mine who were
moderate, just changing their whole philosophy because they
were afraid of primaries from the Tea Party, from the far
(38:38):
right. And you now have it with the
Democrats from the far left. You have Democrats, you have
Democrats endorsing Zoran Mandami out of fear they don't
agree with any of his positions,but they're afraid the DSA will
then challenge them in a primary.
You lost a closed partisan primary.
(38:59):
Should New York City have open primaries in addition to rank
choice voting? If you had open primaries.
Would that eliminate this situation where you have all
these independent candidates running?
If you had open primaries, it would do that.
Yes, that. 'D be bad and I opposed it at
one time. Now, if we're sitting from where
you sit now, how do you feel? Would open primaries solve that?
(39:23):
Open primaries would help. Would help.
Final question asked in an interview this summer if you
would someday have regrets aboutentering the race.
You said this is what I do. This is what I've done all my
life. I've done one thing.
I'm not a golfer, I'm not a dancer, I'm not a tennis player.
I'm a government professional and I know how to make
(39:43):
government work. Is that what's driving you to
keep fighting? 100% If Zoran Mandami wins the
election, Donald Trump will takeover New York City.
He will be President Trump and Mayor Trump.
He has already said as much. He will say because it'll be the
(40:04):
perfect excuse. For the president to do what he
wants to do, which is seize power and control over New York
City, the greatest city in the country of another globe.
And he will say this. This person is a threat to
public safety. He's 33 years old.
He's never had a job. He's anti police, anti business,
(40:26):
anti-Semitic. I have to come in to protect New
Yorkers and on what would be Mayor Mandami's election
inaugural day, you will see tanks coming down 5th Ave. with
Donald Trump taking a selfie in front of Trump Tower and it will
be mayhem. Is that fear mongering or is
(40:48):
that how realistic do you think that?
Is it is what President Trump said he will do and it is what
makes total sense for him to do.He sends National Guard into
cities. Why?
Because he's making a political point.
These Democrats don't know how to run these cities and they
endanger people. And it takes me, Donald Trump,
(41:11):
to send in the federal troops toclean up the mess these
Democratic lunatics are creating.
That's what the National Guard is about.
They're not really there for anyother purpose.
It's a political power play. When I was governor, he sent
them into 20 cities. He then said I'm going to send
(41:32):
them into New York. I called him up.
We had a conversation. He never sent them into New
York. He needs an excuse, a rationale
or raison d'etre to send them someplace.
Portland gave it to him. Chicago gave it to him.
LA gave it to him. When I was governor, he didn't
(41:54):
have it with Mandami. He'll have it in volumes by
Mandami's own statements. Imagine you're mayor.
President Trump has threatened to arrest your opponent, by the
way, Zoran Mandani, and his administration has suggested
that his citizenship could be revoked.
What would you do as mayor if the president tried to arrest
(42:17):
and denaturalize your opponent? Oh, I don't think there's any
legal basis for that whatsoever.What would you do?
Everything I could, I believe it's illegal.
The point of the question is, try to understand where is the
line and how far will you go to protect New Yorkers, all New
Yorkers, if you're mayor, from the administration's policies.
(42:38):
There is nothing that I won't doto defend New Yorkers.
I was under 2 federal investigations with Donald
Trump. It took years and millions of
dollars. He accused me of federal crimes,
accused me of all sorts of horrendous actions because I
(43:02):
opposed him. He was going to quarantine New
York and during COVID and literally seal New York, which
would have created a panic like we've never seen before.
In the middle of COVID. You can't leave New York.
Airports closed, the bridges closed.
(43:23):
I said to the president, you do that, I'm going to close the
financial markets and there willbe no stocks traded and the
stock market will drop thousandsof points.
I mean, those are the those are the extent that these
conversations went to. He is a very tough customer and
(43:49):
you have to be equally as tough or he will roll over.
You So you're saying it's as much your experience dealing
with Trump that qualifies you tobe the next mayor as it is your
experience previously being an executive power?
But I think dealing with Trump is going to be a major obstacle
for the next mayor because, look, he came into this state.
(44:12):
He took Penn Station over like candy from a baby.
Penn Station was a state projectthat we were working on for four
years. He came in, he just took it.
He's talking about taking over 911, the 9/11 site.
He stopped infrastructure funding for major infrastructure
(44:34):
projects with no basis. How are you going to stop that?
Like what qualifies you and yourexperience to stop that that
your opponent doesn't have? Because he needs a legitimate
basis and he has to know it's there is no, it's not going to
be taking candy from a baby. This is going to be a war.
(44:54):
And this is New York and New York City is the media capital.
And I know how to play this game.
You think you're good at it? I think I'm pretty good at it.
You think you're tough, I think I'm tough.
And if you want to have a war over this, let's just make sure
we understand each other and then decide, is it really worth
the war? And Donald Trump is smart.
(45:21):
And like with the National Guard, not in New York.
It wasn't worth the war. Send them to another city.
It's not worth the war, but it has to be that you have to
confront this president with thesame reality that he is
presenting you. Governor Cuomo, thank you for
(45:43):
joining me on Firing Line. Margaret Hoove, thank you for
having me.
If Zoran Mandami wins the election, Donald Trump will take
over New York City. It'll be the perfect excuse for
the president to do what he wants to do on what would be
Mayor Mandami's inaugural day. You will see tanks coming down
5th Ave. with Donald Trump taking a selfie in front of
(00:22):
Trump Tower and it will be mayhem.
That's former New York governor and current New York City
mayoral candidate Andrew Cuomo warning that electing his
opponent could lead to disaster.I'm Margaret Hoover.
This is THE FIRING Line podcast.With Election Day less than two
(00:44):
weeks away, Andrew Cuomo is making his final pitch to voters
that he is best suited to handleNew York City's problems.
It's not about the thrill of winning an election, been there,
done that. It's not about the thrill of
title, been there, done that, right?
It's about the consequences. It's an argument that didn't
(01:06):
work in the Democratic primary, when he lost to democratic
socialist Zoran Mamdani. If you want.
A candidate for mayor who tells you everything that he cannot
do. Then Andrew Cuomo should be your
choice. He is excited young people, but
do they know what freeze the rent means?
Or free buses? What that actually means?
(01:28):
Now running as an independent, Cuomo is trying to put the
scandals that ended his tenure as governor behind him.
I did nothing wrong, so why resign?
Well, because of this distraction, it would have been
improving. I did nothing wrong.
But has he learned anything fromthat dramatic downfall?
(01:48):
There are women who are afraid of the opposition and they want
to support you, but they're looking for contrition.
Oh, Margaret, I get it. I get it.
What? Can you tell them so that they
are convinced that you get it? Governor Andrew Cuomo, welcome
to FIRING LINE Pleasure. As this interview airs, we are
(02:12):
entering the final stretch for the mayor's race and you are the
underdog. What is your path to victory?
Common sense, Common sense. I think New Yorkers understand
that they need a mayor who actually knows how to do the
job. You know, this city has real
problems. And I think New Yorkers want
(02:33):
someone who they know will actually make government work
and make a change in their lives.
And that means you have to have someone who has the experience
in the qualifications to make the government operate.
You know, we've picked mayors inthe past who have no management
experience whatsoever, and it's been a disaster.
(02:54):
So I think they've learned from that.
They know me as governor. They know I get things done.
I ran the state. I built major projects.
And I think they want someone who's going to make a real
change in New York. And I think that's me.
So why are you the underdog? Well, there's it's a three
person. And I don't like that word.
Well, it's a three person race and you have a Republican who
(03:16):
has some Republican votes. My opponent in the Democratic
primary who's actually a democratic socialist is on the
Democratic line. I'm a Democrat on an independent
line. So I think, you know, people are
still sorting that out. So the current mayor of the
city, Mayor Eric Adams, has endorsed you if you welcome his
(03:37):
endorsement. I welcome his endorsement.
He is seen to many as a Trump flaky.
Does that bother you? I disagreed with what the mayor
did with President Trump. I made that quite clear.
But Mayor Adams is a Democrat. I'm a Democrat, and I think he's
going to be very helpful in explaining to it to the people
(03:58):
of New York City what it means to be a Democrat and what it
means to be a democratic socialist and what it means to
have the skills to run this city.
So I welcome his support. What did Mayor Adams get for his
endorsement of you? He didn't get anything except I
think he believes that. Well, I know he believes that
Zoran Mandami is an existential threat to New York, and he's
(04:21):
worked with me as governor. He was a senator.
He knows that I know how to govern and he loves New York.
You have said you're not a socialist, you're not anti
police, you're not anti Israel is your pitch to voters.
I'm not mom, Donnie. Margaret, the important point
here, I think is you're seeing acivil war in the Democratic
(04:42):
Party, not just in New York. It's going on nationwide.
You have the Democratic Socialists of America, DSA, This
is the extreme far left of the Democratic Party that has been
growing in support over the years.
This is Bernie Sanders, AOC, thesocialist wing.
Zoran Mandami is part of that. And then you have mainstream
(05:06):
Democrats, which I represent, Myfather represented, Bill Clinton
represented, Barack Obama represented, and the far left is
challenging the Democratic Partyto take over the Democratic
Party. They have different views and a
different philosophy. Yes, they have the word Democrat
in front of their name, but theyhave nothing to do with the
(05:28):
Democratic Party as far as I'm concerned.
He won the primary, He beat you in the Democratic primary
largely because of identifying this issue of affordability, the
crisis of affordability, and because of his authenticity.
But it was his big ideas, which I know are not ideas you agree
with. What are your big ideas?
(05:48):
Yeah, First identified an issue called affordability.
Affordability has been an issue for the Democratic Party for 40
years, right? It is the constant issue so.
It's different right now though.I mean, look, Donald Trump, it
was about affordability, right? You're speaking to the
(06:09):
disenfranchised middle class. Donald Trump identified the
issue. We had a similar trite answer.
The damn elected price of eggs and gasoline will go down.
No explanation as to how, but heconnected with the issue.
And in some ways, that's how superficial our politics has
(06:29):
become. Affordability for Zoran Mandami.
I will freeze the rent. Oh great.
That means my rent is going to be frozen.
Actually, no. Only about 25% of the rental
units, housing units are what they call rent stabilized.
And you can freeze those rents for a period of time and then
(06:50):
they compound and they actually increase.
And for the 75% of the market, it does nothing.
It's not a new idea. Bill de Blasio did it.
It didn't work in, it won't worknow, but it has a superficial
appeal, like Trump saying the price of eggs will come down.
So with respect, Governor, what you just did when I asked you
(07:14):
what your big ideas were is thatyou defined yourself against the
backdrop of what you're not. You took his ideas and
dismantled them, which I know you disagree with, and you
should. What are your big ideas?
Number one, it's about public safety.
Everything starts with public safety.
We went through a period in thiscity where the geniuses defunded
the police, literally took a billion dollars out of the
(07:37):
police, driven by the socialist.We now have the lowest number of
police officers in New York Cityin modern political history.
You have to increase the Police Department.
I want to add 5000 cops, 1500 inthe subways.
Affordability. The only way to bring rents down
is to increase supply. You have a 1% vacancy rate in
housing to get the gimmicks, build more affordable housing,
(08:01):
get it done. Competent government.
You need 500,000 units to reallyincrease the supply where you're
going to see rents drop, which means we have to have hundreds
of projects ongoing and and, andefficiency in government we
haven't seen in a long, long time.
I think those are the two cornerstones.
(08:25):
Third, it's about jobs, jobs, jobs.
And we have to say to this business community that we have
been harassing for years and nowthey are leaving New York, we
have to say we get it, we want you here.
We need you here. Democratic Party believes in
(08:46):
jobs and opportunity. It's the engine that drives the
train and we understand that. The cost of taxes and
regulations in New York has gotten too high.
What is if you can in one word? And I know you don't like short
answers, but can you sum up yourvision of life in New York City
(09:07):
if you are the mayor in one or two or three words?
My family's safe. I believe my child's going to do
better through a public education system.
I believe that I have a career path in New York City and I love
the energy and I love the environment and I love the
(09:28):
diversity of New York. What's the reverse?
What is your vision for the cityif Mamdani wins the Merrill T?
Businesses leave, wealth leaves.That's a death spiral for an
urban area. Wealth leaves, you have to cut
services. You cut services, quality of
life deteriorates, more wealth leaves, more businesses leave.
(09:54):
What happens to crime? Or crime goes up because you're
cutting the police, cut the police, crime goes up, more
wealth leaves. Which is what is happening now,
right? We don't have to guess.
It is what is happening to New York now.
There is an exodus of wealthy people but also middle class
(10:15):
working families, exodus of businesses and that will
accelerate and that is what theycall the urban death spiral.
You're riding on experience. Take the issue of affordability.
Explain to viewers why your experience governing as an
executive makes you better equipped to tackle the
(10:39):
affordability crisis than somebody who has been a member
of the state legislature. To deal with affordability,
there are first you need to passseveral pieces of legislation.
I think we should lower taxes and eliminate taxes for low
income New Yorkers. I think we should pass what's
called the property tax cap. I passed it for the rest of the
(11:01):
state. New York City mayor didn't want
it. I would pass a property tax cap
for homeowners, no more than a 2% increase per year.
It would be great for homeowners.
And then you have to build housing.
To build housing, you need to know how to put together a
financing plan, deal with the legislative body, the City
Council, get it passed. Deal with community opposition.
(11:23):
Because in New York City, whatever you go to do, there's
going to be community opposition.
Pick a developer quickly withoutgetting ripped off, and then
supervise the construction of the project.
That is the management necessaryto build affordable housing, and
that is different than a set of legislative skills to articulate
(11:49):
and get a piece of legislation passed.
I just think it's difficult for people who don't understand the
complexity of the municipality that is the largest city in the
country to understand why the management is so important and
why, why. I mean, Zoran Mandami has done a
very good job of of of being quick on his feet and standing
(12:13):
up against you on a debate stage.
And that's done a lot to allay people's concerns that he isn't
experienced enough. We're talking about management
skills and I think a clearer vision of what exactly is needed
to manage a city with $115 billion budget, 300,000
employees with a really strong mural T This is not just a
figurehead. Is there anything else that
(12:35):
strikes you about where experience could make a
difference in the lives of ordinary New Yorkers?
Well, when you sit in the mayor's seat, you sit in the
governor's seat of New York, other executives on any given
morning, anything can happen. Any given morning can be another
(12:58):
Hurricane Sandy can be another. COVID can be, God forbid,
another 911. There is no on the job training
for those things, Margaret, and eight and a half million lives
are in your hands and you have to respond like that.
And if you have not been throughthat and you don't know how to
(13:18):
do it, you're not going to learnin a briefing in the 1st 20
minutes, I guarantee you that. In the first debate against you,
he said, Quote what? I don't have an experience.
I make up for an integrity, and what you don't have an
integrity, you could never make up for an experience.
(13:41):
Yeah, he is a nice Riddle. I don't know what he.
How do you respond? I mean, how do you respond to
the charge that integrity is more important than experience?
Yeah, and plus, where is his integrity?
The man lies like a rug. You know, If he is smiling, he
is lying, they say, And it's true in the debate and you can
(14:03):
get away with it. He has said things on Twitter,
on video that he just denies saying.
And so integrity. I haven't seen any from the man.
You have called him extreme overthe course of the race.
Your campaign has introduced policies to tackle
(14:25):
affordability, of course, which he identified in the in the
primary as a as a major concern.His he supports universal
childcare supporters noticed that you also introduced a
universal 3K. He wants to raise the minimum
wage to $30. You later proposed $20.
Mamdani wants free buses and it it seems as though your platform
(14:46):
includes an openness to some free buses, pending some
examination of its efficacy, Curtis Sliwa said.
You're Zoran Light. Yeah, whatever.
Curtis Sliwa, that's a separate,separate topic, but let's just
(15:07):
go through what you said. As are you, I mean, the question
is, are you adopting versions ofhis ideas that are and if they,
if you are, are they that extreme?
Yeah, I've actually done all thethings that he is proposing.
I brought Universal pre-K to thestate of New York.
I piloted Universal 3K New York State.
(15:30):
I'm in New York City. I'm saying we should have
Universal three. Ki passed the highest minimum
wage law in the United States ofAmerica at $15.00 an hour.
I'm saying now we should bring it to 20.
He's saying 30, 30 you could never get past and you should
never get it passed because you put a lot of businesses out of
(15:50):
business very quickly. So everything he's talking about
I actually have done already. Is he that extreme then?
Well, the difference between $20.00 an hour minimum wage and
$30.00 an hour is a big difference.
One is feasible, 1 is not feasible, right?
(16:12):
The minimum wage is a balance. Yes, you want to rate, you can
raise it and you want to raise it.
But if you raise it too high, too fast, you will be literally
doubling the payroll of companies and you will put
companies out of business. That's the extremism and that's
(16:33):
the lack of experience that I'm talking about.
Yeah, 30 sounds better than 20. By the way, 40 sounds better
than 30. Make it $50.00 an hour.
Make it $100.00 an hour. If you don't know what you're
talking about, you know the bigger number sounds better.
In a recent interview, it was onThe View when you were asked by
(16:58):
the ladies why you're losing to a democratic socialist.
You said that it's because people don't understand.
What is it that people don't understand?
I don't think they understand the difference between
democratic socialist and mainstream Democrats, and I
don't think they understand whatthe Democratic Socialist Party
(17:20):
stands for. I don't think they understand
what the socialist theory of theeconomy is, where they are
saying government should controlthe means of production.
Government should own all land, no private ownership of land.
The American dream of home ownership, it's gone.
(17:43):
It didn't work in Venezuela, it didn't work in Cuba, it didn't
work in Chicago. It's not going to work here.
Some of the polls have him as high as 50%.
Now that those are outliers, butit's a large number of people
who are supporting him. Did that many people not
understand what you've just outlined, do you think?
I'm yes, I believe most people do not understand.
(18:04):
They respond to what you were talking about.
He is glib. He is facile.
He has been extraordinary on social media, credit where
credit is due and TikTok. And he is excited.
Young people, the 20 to 30 generation turned out in
(18:25):
historic numbers and that's all to his credit.
But do they know what freeze therent means or free buses, what
that actually means? A grocery store, government run
grocery store in every borough. We have his affordability
(18:49):
answer. Food is expensive.
We will have New York City open a grocery store in every
borough. So we're in Manhattan, one
grocery store in Manhattan run by New York City and they will
be open to everyone, rich people, poor people, and it will
(19:12):
be cheaper. The food will be cheaper because
the New York City government will run it more efficiently
than the private sector. It's laughable.
There was 16,000 grocery stores in New York City.
You're going to add five run by government?
(19:32):
That's the answer. It's it is ridiculous, but do
people understand it? No free buses.
Great. It's been tried, it's been done.
They turned into mobile homelessshelters, but it sounds great.
Are you concerned when you say they don't understand?
It might come across as a littlecondescending.
(19:55):
They don't understand the depth,but there is no discussion on
the depth. It's just the expression frees
the rent. But do you understand what I'm
saying? I mean, a lot of people like the
idea when you say they don't understand.
That can feel condescending to people.
I don't think they would like the idea if they understood the
(20:19):
details of the idea. When you say freeze the rent, I
like that. I trust me.
I'm sympathetic to your policy position, but when you say
people don't understand, they hear somebody saying they don't
know what they're talking about.They feel like you don't
understand. I don't think they have heard
the full proposal. If you hear the headline, yes,
(20:44):
But if you read the story, then it's going to be different.
They have not heard the story because they're not told.
The story has nothing to do withpeople.
Frankly, if it has anything to do with anything, it has to do
with the press and the lack of rigor in the political press
that we now see. 10 years ago they didn't let you get away
(21:08):
with. There's some really good
reporting on rent stabilization and rent freezing and how it
actually in the long run, this is what you got in the debate
last night, that actually it, itdelays investment in the
buildings. Ultimately it ends up being more
expensive. I mean, I think there has been
some good reporting of that. I just think when people here,
they don't understand. They think he doesn't understand
me. They also think he thinks I'm
(21:30):
stupid. It has nothing to do with them.
It has to do with the political process that lets you get away
with three words without explaining yourself.
After you lost the primary, you acknowledged you needed to run a
very different kind of campaign.In the first debate, when you
were asked what you learned fromlosing the primary, you
(21:51):
mentioned social media, that your opponent had distinguished
himself a social media. Is it more than that or is it
just the videos? No, I said it was more than
that, right, If you listen to the debate.
Trust me. Then you know it was a family
event. All right then, you know, I said
more than that. I said social media, which did
(22:13):
make it. He he did very well on social
media. I also said that I wasn't, I
didn't make myself available enough.
I wasn't present enough. Beyond political tactics, did
you learn anything about the voters in that process?
Did you learn anything about yourself in that process?
(22:37):
I learned nothing that I didn't know.
You know, I'm a New Yorker. I talk to New Yorkers all day
long. I think the fear factor is much
higher. I think that's a recent
development. I think that's tied to President
Trump, but I think that's ratcheted way up since President
(22:59):
Trump came in, started sending the National Guard.
What's happening with the Department of Justice, I think
that fear factor is, is way up that that is probably the most
dramatic shift for me. Did you learn anything about
yourself in the primary? I learned I didn't know what I
(23:23):
was talking about with social media.
I, I learned, well, that's understatement.
I'll offend the social media team.
We had a social media team. They were very good.
We needed, we needed to do more in that area.
I learned that I should have been more physically present,
(23:49):
shown up more places, touched more people directly.
Those are tactics. What about yourself in terms of
self reflection? I didn't learn that much more
about myself, you know, it's probably my 8th, 9th campaign,
you know, so. The reason I ask this, I think
there are people who are watching you run this campaign
(24:09):
and they wonder if you want it as badly as Momdani clearly
does. Is the fire in the belly for you
the way it has been in previous campaigns?
The fire in the belly is probably stronger because the
stakes are higher. I think we're talking about the
future of the city of New York. I think you're at a crossroad
(24:33):
and you can see this city dramatically decline and quickly
decline. Take a ride to Chicago.
It can happen very quickly and it is happening already, which
is what people don't get. Or I think there is an upside
(24:54):
where you can have a city betterand stronger than we have seen
in decades. I think those are the stakes and
those are the options. So to me, it's more urgent.
You know, when I was running forre election as governor, I knew
the state was doing well. And, you know, one way or the
other, life would go on as we know it.
(25:18):
I don't know that life goes on as we know it in New York City.
You start to lose more businesses, you start to lose
more people. Crime goes up higher.
Margaret, it's a really potentially frightening
situation. So that's what drives me, right?
(25:40):
At this point in my career, I was a cabinet secretary, I was
attorney general, governor of the state of New York.
It's not about the thrill of winning an election.
Been there, done that. It's not about the thrill of
title. Been there, done that, right?
(26:03):
Federal Cabinet secretary is thehighest position.
I was that in my 40s. So it's not about the thrill.
It's about the consequences and how I think I can make a
difference. I think I can make a dramatic
difference in the trajectory of New York City.
(26:24):
And I think that the variable onthat trajectory is all the
difference in the world. Your opponent has been reaching
out to people. He's met with rabbis who are
concerned that he's anti-Semitic.
He has met with business leaderswho are concerned about his
association with Democratic socialists.
He has gone on Fox News who somesay would like to make him an
(26:48):
albatross for the Democratic Party.
He is seen as somebody who is building bridges and reaching
out. Are you doing enough of that?
Because your opponent said it took him feeding you in a
primary to get you to show up ata mosque?
Is that true? And are you doing enough of
that? Yeah.
Well, is it true? No, it's not true.
(27:11):
Had you been to a mosque before the primary?
Sure. But am I reaching out more to
the Muslim community? Yes.
Why? Because that's a base of votes.
That's very important. He is a Muslim.
And yes, I would like to get a share of that vote.
What's your? Argument to them.
(27:31):
What's your pitch? My pitch is the same across the
board. Who can do more for you?
Who will help you and your family more with your problems
and pick that person. And I believe if you look at my
(27:52):
plan and my proposals and my experience, my ability and what
I've actually achieved, I will do more for you.
Your family will. The life of your family will be
better four years from now if I am mayor.
He reaches out to the Jewish community because the Jewish
community is very suspect of him, right?
(28:15):
That's why he's doing that. If you had President Trump on
the phone right now, you're mayor of New York.
What do you say to him? I say before you do anything
crazy, call me and let's talk. If you come up with one of your
advisors walks in and says I think we should do XY and Z in
(28:39):
New York, before you do anything, call me because I
don't want to have a problem. But you don't want to have a
problem, so call me first, please.
By the way, this came up in the debate.
What's up with the phone call that you say you didn't?
(29:01):
Have a phone call. I just, I know you're a lawyer
so I wonder, was it a text? Was it Adm?
There was no. Was it a, was it a FaceTime?
It's it's three people have saidthere was a call.
Maybe they were wrong as a call.Was there some kind of
communication? There was a newspaper report
that said three people said there was no phone call.
(29:24):
There's no text. Yeah, there was no DM.
Was there communication? There's been no communication
between. No carriers yelling, no
megaphone. I'm talking between you and
Trump, yes. No communication between you
and. Trump No Electronic written.
More slow. More slow.
(29:44):
See, I feel like you're qualifying it, though.
Are you parsing it in some way? You have not communicated in any
way with Donald Trump. Hand signals No.
Semaphores. Nothing.
OK. Why'd you resign as governor?
Because there were allegations made which I said were political
(30:05):
at the time and it was going to be a political mess in Albany,
had a very sensitive time and itwould have been a distraction to
state government. And I believe in government and
state government and I would thelast thing I would do, it would
(30:28):
be a distraction to the proper functioning of government.
I said the report was political.I said it was false.
There was no truth. I did nothing wrong.
But it would have to be sorted out, right?
And it went. We sent the five district
(30:49):
attorneys, Democrat, Republican,short, tall, all across the
state. They all looked at it.
They said there was no there there.
We then litigated it for four years.
There was no there there. I was dropped from the cases so
it is what I said it was. You said last May in a interview
before the primary that you'd quote, actually heard your
(31:11):
father's voice at the time. He had passed away at the time.
And I heard his voice. And he said, look, public
service is about serving the public.
And if you're going to be in a position where you're actually
going to be a distraction from government functioning, then you
should step aside. In that same interview, it was
with Barry Weiss, who's now, of course, the editor in chief of
CBS. You said in that same interview
(31:32):
in retrospect, that you shouldn't have resigned.
Well, here's the yin and the Yang.
The yes, it took four years to actually deconstruct the report
that was done right and it took lawyers and it took depositions
(31:57):
and witnesses, etcetera. So it took four years to prove
there was no there there. Those four years, this would
have been a constant distractionto state government because it
was the height of the Me Too movement.
And this is sexy. And so on one hand, resign, my
(32:19):
father would say, because you'regoing to be this is going to be
a major distraction for four years.
The legislature will use it as an excuse.
Your effectiveness will be impeded.
That's the Yang. The Yang is I did nothing wrong
and I was doing a very good job as governor, and I wanted to
(32:43):
finish the job as governor. That's the Yang.
I did nothing wrong, so why resign?
Well, because of this distraction it would have been
in proving I did nothing wrong. Have you learned anything?
(33:04):
I think I learned a painful expensive lesson that there you
have to be hyper cautious alwaysbecause there is a new cultural
sensitivity that people may feeland if they feel it, it is, it
(33:30):
is real you. You may not intend to offend the
person, you may think you're complimenting a person, but
there is a cultural sensitivity,so be very careful about
everything you say. I may say blue looks good on
(33:54):
you, or you take that a different way, say nothing.
Forget blue, red, green. Yeah.
So you, you're saying you've become, are you saying you've
become more sensitive to maybe acultural sensibility that you
weren't attuned to? Here's why I'm asking.
I, I want to just be very clear.I'm asking because I think that
(34:16):
there are are women and I think there are Democrats, and I think
particularly Democratic women who are afraid of the opposition
and they want to support you, but they're looking for
contrition. They're looking to see that
you've self reflected on your behavior and that you've
learned. Oh, Margaret, I get it.
I get it. What can you tell them so that
(34:38):
they're convinced that you get it?
I my, I get it in that I am so hyper cautious now by the way, I
won't meet with a person alone anymore.
I won't meet with a person who Idon't know unless I have a
(34:59):
witness. I won't kiss a person on the
cheek unless they initiate a kiss on the cheek, you know?
Does that mean you regret some of your previous behavior?
Oh well, to the I, I regret thatthe entire situation what
happened does that. Mean you've changed your
(35:20):
behaviour. That's not the same, because
it's not the same thing. You said you don't even initiate
a kiss now, I mean, so does thatmean you regret some of your
previous behaviour? Well, I, when I, well, literally
the situation was I said to a woman, may I kiss you on the
cheek? She said yes and I kissed her on
the cheek. But yeah, I won't even do that.
I won't comment on anyone's appearance.
(35:43):
So I'm hyper cautious and I get it well, because whatever
sensitivity level you have is should be respected.
And there is a much higher levelof sensitivity and I think it
(36:07):
is. I think it was increasing
dramatically, especially at thattime, and I understood it
intellectually, but practically I wasn't as cautious as I should
(36:27):
be. You've heard your opponent
saying no means no as a reference to your past with
women, without even explicitly calling it out.
Does it bother you? No, because that is such an
absurd look. He has a problem with the truth.
My opponent, right The a kiss ona cheek.
(36:51):
You want to suggest that that has anything to do with no
means? No.
I mean, obviously it's just a cheap, political, nasty comment,
which he is very good at. And then he'll deny it the next
day. In 1977, your father ran for
mayor of New York City against Ed Koch.
(37:12):
Koch One went on to serve 3 terms in office.
She also made several appearances on Firing Line.
And I want you to look at a clipfrom him in 1984 with William F
Ackley Junior. The primaries regrettably bring
out the most militant in both primaries, the Republican and
Democratic. In the Republican, it would be
(37:32):
the most right wing. In the Democratic primary, the
most liberal or militantly liberal come out and have a
greater impact on that primary than the broad number of
Democrats, who are basically mainstream and much closer to
the center. Well, I think what the mayor,
(37:56):
Mayor Koch, God rest his soul, said applies very much to today,
except it's worse today. The primaries have fewer people
voting. Part of it is we change the
date. Campaign finance reform and rank
(38:16):
choice voting have made it even more complicated.
But the basic dynamic is right. Frankly, it started with the
Republican Party. First it was the Tea Party.
And I remember a lot of colleagues of mine who were
moderate, just changing their whole philosophy because they
were afraid of primaries from the Tea Party, from the far
(38:38):
right. And you now have it with the
Democrats from the far left. You have Democrats, you have
Democrats endorsing Zoran Mandami out of fear they don't
agree with any of his positions,but they're afraid the DSA will
then challenge them in a primary.
You lost a closed partisan primary.
(38:59):
Should New York City have open primaries in addition to rank
choice voting? If you had open primaries.
Would that eliminate this situation where you have all
these independent candidates running?
If you had open primaries, it would do that.
Yes, that. 'D be bad and I opposed it at
one time. Now, if we're sitting from where
you sit now, how do you feel? Would open primaries solve that?
(39:23):
Open primaries would help. Would help.
Final question asked in an interview this summer if you
would someday have regrets aboutentering the race.
You said this is what I do. This is what I've done all my
life. I've done one thing.
I'm not a golfer, I'm not a dancer, I'm not a tennis player.
I'm a government professional and I know how to make
(39:43):
government work. Is that what's driving you to
keep fighting? 100% If Zoran Mandami wins the
election, Donald Trump will takeover New York City.
He will be President Trump and Mayor Trump.
He has already said as much. He will say because it'll be the
(40:04):
perfect excuse. For the president to do what he
wants to do, which is seize power and control over New York
City, the greatest city in the country of another globe.
And he will say this. This person is a threat to
public safety. He's 33 years old.
He's never had a job. He's anti police, anti business,
(40:26):
anti-Semitic. I have to come in to protect New
Yorkers and on what would be Mayor Mandami's election
inaugural day, you will see tanks coming down 5th Ave. with
Donald Trump taking a selfie in front of Trump Tower and it will
be mayhem. Is that fear mongering or is
(40:48):
that how realistic do you think that?
Is it is what President Trump said he will do and it is what
makes total sense for him to do.He sends National Guard into
cities. Why?
Because he's making a political point.
These Democrats don't know how to run these cities and they
endanger people. And it takes me, Donald Trump,
(41:11):
to send in the federal troops toclean up the mess these
Democratic lunatics are creating.
That's what the National Guard is about.
They're not really there for anyother purpose.
It's a political power play. When I was governor, he sent
them into 20 cities. He then said I'm going to send
(41:32):
them into New York. I called him up.
We had a conversation. He never sent them into New
York. He needs an excuse, a rationale
or raison d'etre to send them someplace.
Portland gave it to him. Chicago gave it to him.
LA gave it to him. When I was governor, he didn't
(41:54):
have it with Mandami. He'll have it in volumes by
Mandami's own statements. Imagine you're mayor.
President Trump has threatened to arrest your opponent, by the
way, Zoran Mandani, and his administration has suggested
that his citizenship could be revoked.
What would you do as mayor if the president tried to arrest
(42:17):
and denaturalize your opponent? Oh, I don't think there's any
legal basis for that whatsoever.What would you do?
Everything I could, I believe it's illegal.
The point of the question is, try to understand where is the
line and how far will you go to protect New Yorkers, all New
Yorkers, if you're mayor, from the administration's policies.
(42:38):
There is nothing that I won't doto defend New Yorkers.
I was under 2 federal investigations with Donald
Trump. It took years and millions of
dollars. He accused me of federal crimes,
accused me of all sorts of horrendous actions because I
(43:02):
opposed him. He was going to quarantine New
York and during COVID and literally seal New York, which
would have created a panic like we've never seen before.
In the middle of COVID. You can't leave New York.
Airports closed, the bridges closed.
(43:23):
I said to the president, you do that, I'm going to close the
financial markets and there willbe no stocks traded and the
stock market will drop thousandsof points.
I mean, those are the those are the extent that these
conversations went to. He is a very tough customer and
(43:49):
you have to be equally as tough or he will roll over.
You So you're saying it's as much your experience dealing
with Trump that qualifies you tobe the next mayor as it is your
experience previously being an executive power?
But I think dealing with Trump is going to be a major obstacle
for the next mayor because, look, he came into this state.
(44:12):
He took Penn Station over like candy from a baby.
Penn Station was a state projectthat we were working on for four
years. He came in, he just took it.
He's talking about taking over 911, the 9/11 site.
He stopped infrastructure funding for major infrastructure
(44:34):
projects with no basis. How are you going to stop that?
Like what qualifies you and yourexperience to stop that that
your opponent doesn't have? Because he needs a legitimate
basis and he has to know it's there is no, it's not going to
be taking candy from a baby. This is going to be a war.
(44:54):
And this is New York and New York City is the media capital.
And I know how to play this game.
You think you're good at it? I think I'm pretty good at it.
You think you're tough, I think I'm tough.
And if you want to have a war over this, let's just make sure
we understand each other and then decide, is it really worth
the war? And Donald Trump is smart.
(45:21):
And like with the National Guard, not in New York.
It wasn't worth the war. Send them to another city.
It's not worth the war, but it has to be that you have to
confront this president with thesame reality that he is
presenting you. Governor Cuomo, thank you for
(45:43):
joining me on Firing Line. Margaret Hoove, thank you for
having me.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.