March 18, 2025 • 41 mins
Bill Carlin takes us on a fascinating journey from his early days as an eBay seller to becoming a fulfillment logistics innovator and podcast host. What began as a part-time wholesale business in college evolved into a $10 million Amazon enterprise, eventually leading him to found Shipmate Fulfillment when he spotted critical gaps in the 3PL industry.
Through his experiences interviewing disruptive entrepreneurs, Carlin has identified two distinct paths to e-commerce success: the magnetic marketers who captivate customers with compelling messaging, and the innovative product developers who create truly original solutions. Both paths, he notes, share one crucial element – grit in the face of inevitable challenges.
Carlin's "digital real estate" concept provides a powerful framework for e-commerce diversification. Just as physical retailers aim to get their products into multiple stores, online entrepreneurs should establish their presence across various platforms rather than relying solely on Amazon. This multi-channel approach creates resilience against platform-specific disruptions while expanding customer reach through marketplaces like Walmart, eBay, TikTok Shop, and Wayfair.
For those struggling with analysis paralysis, Carlin offers his "B+ principle" – launch when something is good enough rather than pursuing perfection. This mindset prevents the inertia that kills so many entrepreneurial dreams before they begin. "When you aim for the B+, you can celebrate the A's," he explains, highlighting how lowering the bar for "ready" allows entrepreneurs to start generating real-world feedback.
Ready to optimize your fulfillment strategy or explore 3PL options? Check out Racklify, Carlin's free platform dubbed "Zillow for warehouses," where you can explore logistics providers without the commission-based matchmaking that typically drives up costs for sellers.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income streams in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts, serialentrepreneurs David Shomer and
(00:22):
Ken Wilson entrepreneurs, davidShomer and Ken Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome back to another episode of Firing the
man podcast, where we bring youthe most insightful
conversations with trailblazersin business, e-commerce and
entrepreneurship.
Today, we have a special guestwho knows a thing or two about
disruption, innovation andchallenging the status quo.
Joining us is Bill Carlin, thehost of the Disruptive Minds
podcast, where he sits down withvisionaries, thought leaders
(00:51):
and industry pioneers to uncoverthe strategies and mindsets
behind game-changing businesses.
Bill has developed deepconversations with some of the
most innovative minds out there,and today we're turning the
tables to learn more about hisown journey.
In this episode, we'll dive deepinto what inspired Bill to
launch his podcast, the impactit's had on his career, the most
(01:14):
memorable guest he's hosted andhis insights on where business
and e-commerce are headed in thefuture.
Whether you're an entrepreneur,a business leader or someone
who just loves hearing fromdisruptive thinkers, this
conversation is going to be oneyou will not want to miss.
Bill, welcome to the show.
Yeah, thanks for having meAbsolutely.
(01:34):
So, to start things off, canyou share with our audience a
little bit about your journey oflaunching the Disruptive Minds
podcast and what inspired that?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, so I'm going to take it way back, way before
there ever was a DisruptiveMinds podcast and what inspired
that?
Yeah, so I'm going to take itway back, way before there ever
was a Disruptive Minds podcastand start at the very beginning,
Right?
So a long time ago, you know, Iwas one of those small little
eBay sellers, you know, sellingsome stuff back in 2010, 2011.
And then I went off to collegeand I found myself doing
(02:06):
wholesale part-time, right.
So I was working with goodsbeing imported from China and
sold to small to medium-sizedretailers some like Sears right,
Ross's, Rose's right and I hadthis great idea why are we
selling this to retailers, right?
When we could just sell it onAmazon directly to the public?
(02:29):
And you know, this is about thetime when Amazon, you know, was
two years in the prime.
So we started selling on Amazon, really quickly ramped that up
to about, you know, almost $10million a year revenue.
And then, from there, we werelike, well, we're already
fulfilling our own stuff.
Why don't we fulfill otherpeople's stuff?
So that led to the developmentof Shitmate Fulfillment, which
(02:50):
I've been doing for the last 10years.
And that's kind of where theDisruptive Minds podcast kind of
came from is.
I was having these discussionsand stuff with people we were
bringing on the YouTube channelpeople we were doing guest blogs
with things like that.
I was like I have a prettylarge network, why don't I just
spin up a podcast in my sparetime and see where it goes?
(03:14):
So that led to the developmentof the Disruptive Minds podcast
and it's been fun.
You know we've done I think 40,50, some odd episodes.
I'm a little less consistentwith it than I used to be where
it was.
You know scheduled episodesthat came out on a fixed
schedule, but we're stillreleasing episodes and we're
(03:34):
still going strong.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Outstanding.
Well, it's fun to talk toanother podcaster because I
think we share a uniqueexperience that a lot of people
don't have.
And you know, when people askme, you know I've been doing it
for six years we're at episodelike in the yeah 265.
And people ask what's it like?
And I would compare it togetting like a PhD in business.
(03:59):
I mean, you have, I've had 265professors.
I've learned something fromeverybody and it's been an
absolutely outstanding process.
If someone were to give me amillion dollars tomorrow to stop
podcasting, I would not take it, and so I'm curious, like
what's been your experience withit?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
So my experience with it has really been the network
effects, right.
So a lot of these people I'vealready known.
But then I went off and I goton like some of network effects
right, so a lot of these peopleI've already known.
But then I went off and I goton like some of the platforms,
right.
I got on like Podmatch and Istarted doing some like LinkedIn
prospecting and then peoplejust started showing up my email
inbox, which was really weird,right, just like, oh, how'd you
get that?
But okay, I'll talk to you.
You know I talked to all kindsof people, right.
(04:45):
So you know, it got to the pointwhere, you know, I can really
choose who I wanted to talk toand why I wanted to talk to them
, and it really allowed me toexplore topics that either I was
curious about or my listenerswere curious about, and it
really let me, like, choose myown adventure.
And that's what I thought waslike really unique about
(05:07):
podcasting.
Flip the other way around,right, like the listener gets to
choose their own adventurebecause they get to listen to
different hosts or a differentpodcast, but the podcast host
literally has like that ultimatelevel of control where it's
like I'm going to talk to theguy who has this startup, or
this guy made me laugh.
I'm going to talk to him andjust see what he's about.
(05:28):
Right, and that level ofcontrol, I think, is what makes
the podcaster experience so muchdifferent.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Absolutely.
I agree with everything thatyou said in terms of my own
experiences, and so witheverything that you said in
terms of my own experiences, andso you know, as I look back on
my tenure as podcast host, thereare a couple guests that stand
out as they said something orthey told a story that changed
the course of my life or changedthe way I thought about
(06:00):
business.
Curious, who have been those,like who have been the most
impactful guests for you?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah.
So I think back to some of likethe earlier episodes, and the
things that have really impactedme the most as a host have been
the story-driven works, right,like people that have had great
stories, because you know it'salways great to throw back to
(06:28):
like an idea or a concept, butif there's somebody you talk to
and their story really resonateswith you, you seem to remember
more of the conversation, right.
So, like, one of the first guysI had on the guy's name was
nicky and he was like aimmigrant right who like came to
america because he was likepersecuted and then started a
(06:51):
bunch of businesses, and it waslike really interesting to hear
like especially like at the timesomebody speak positively about
the country right, and likeactually have like a positive,
optimistic outlook based onsaying, hey, I was here and now
I'm here and I think it was likea really eye-opening
(07:14):
conversation because it likemade you great right, and I I
feel like a lot of times we wehave this abundance mindset in
podcasts, right, like we're outthere looking for like this next
nugget, right Mining for gold,and you don't really realize how
much of an abundance therereally is, because 10, 15, 20
years ago people didn't havethese kinds of outlets, people
(07:35):
didn't have these channels toengage and have these
conversations.
And that's why that one sticksout to me in particular.
Right Like I can go through aname like oh, I learned this
lesson from this marketing guru.
Or oh, this guy who did thisconsulting thing.
He had this great saying let merattle it off real quick, but
really those like stories andlike how people come up with
(07:57):
these ideas and realizing that,like everybody has that struggle
, everybody has that struggle,everybody has that path right.
And it really grounds you inreality.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Now, one of the things that asa podcaster you get to talk to a
lot of successful people andover time you start to notice
some common threads of thingsthat these successful people
have in common.
Curious, what have been some ofthose common threads that
you've observed?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So I've noticed and I'm going to go off on a little
bit here because you know I runa business and interact with
other businesses all the timeright, I go to trade shows every
other week, right, like I'mvery engaged, and what I've
realized is there's two types ofpeople that I think succeed.
The first are the marketers,right, and the second are the
(08:50):
people who build truly great andoriginal things.
And these are the two peoplethat I seem to run into again
and again and again.
Right, the guy who cancaptivate somebody with his
messaging, with his content,with his story, with his you
know, packaging, the colors, theway everything integrates,
(09:12):
right, that's the mastermarketer.
That's the guy who has likemagnetism Think of him as like
your overly social friend thateverybody at the party wants to
be around.
Those guys have success ine-commerce.
They have success in businessin general because people want
to be around them.
Those guys have success ine-commerce.
They have success in businessin general because people want
to be around them, becausethey're magnetic.
And then you have the otherpeople that are like more of an
innovator right, it's thatsocially awkward guy.
(09:34):
You walk up to his booth at thetrade show and you go.
You built this robot that likecalls people and and like he,
he's like real shy, but at thesame time you're like this is so
original, this is so great,that innovation on that product
I would have never thought aboutRight.
And these guys also succeedbecause they just have a truly
great product and they outworkpeople.
(09:56):
So in my time around, I wouldsay that probably 80 percent of
the successful people I meetfall into one of these two
products.
Either they're an innovator orthey're, you know, your social
butterfly marketer type.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I like that and I've neverthought of dividing them into
those camps.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
But as I think of previous guests, I can
definitely think of those twodistinct individuals
entrepreneurial bone right thatgo out there and they buy some
(10:37):
stuff and they sell it on amazon.
Those guys usually fit in oneof those two camps.
They're even like this idea isso genius, I'm gonna innovate
that, I'm gonna, you know, bringthat to the market.
It's gonna work.
Or they're like you know theycould sell.
You know they could sell sandin a desert, right.
Like that kind of personalityabsolutely one.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I've observed I'm curious if you have observed
this as well is grit, like youmay have, you may think, like
the listeners may think, like,oh, maybe an Ivy League
education is what leads a lot ofpeople to be successful, which,
yes, that does help, but Iwould say, like more so than
that is grit, and like failurein response to failure.
(11:16):
What's your read on that?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
So, as somebody with an Ivy league education, I can
say that the the grit thing isreally interesting, because when
you look at people that I knowthat have succeeded, whether
they went to an Ivy leagueschool or not, they're the kind
of people that brag about thehard work, right.
So you have some people they'rejust not cut out for it, right.
They can't.
(11:38):
They don't have that grit, theydon't have that determination.
They take the easy route.
But like I remember, you know,10 years ago, being in college
and somebody waking up andbragging, going well, I was up
till three o'clock last nightdoing that paper.
And most of those guys now have,like, very, very successful
careers, right.
And the same thing's true inentrepreneurship.
Like these guys who have thesebattle tested stories, the guys
(12:01):
that are like sleeping on thefloor of their office.
You know one, there's somethinga little little loose up there,
but that's what gets them goingRight.
That's where they derive thejoy they love.
You know the whole path to thatsuccess, and those are the
people that really succeed, arethe people that embrace the
journey, and they embrace theups and downs of the journey.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Where'd you go to school?
I went to Penn.
Very nice, very nice, yeah, and, and and I should point out Ivy
league and grit that ispossible and probably the
ultimate combination.
So not to, not to pick on IvyLeague.
So now you've put your eggs inthe e-commerce basket.
(12:43):
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, I mean, I've been there forever.
Why?
It's the perfect combination,in my opinion, of immediate
success and delayedgratification.
Right.
So Rome isn't built in a day,but a successful ad campaign is
right.
Right, a successful productlaunch is right.
(13:08):
So you have this like mismatchof short and long term goals
that are not always present inother industries and other
places, right.
So when I think back to thedays of selling on Amazon right,
I could do one simple thinglike lower the price a dollar or
get an extra three reviews thatday, and I'd feel the instant
(13:31):
gratification, I feel thatinstant result.
But at the same time, I hadthese larger, longer visions.
I was developing product lines,I was building brands, brand
recognition and seeing Googletraffic go up for the brand
names that I was introducing atthat time.
And when you start being ableto have both that short-term
(13:55):
dopamine spike of wow, that adcampaign went well, or oh, that
sale went well, or oh, we didreally good on Black Friday
paired with the long-term, likeI built a brand, I built
something that people are using,right, it's like that ultimate
sense of fulfillment, becauseI'm somebody and I think a lot
(14:15):
of people in the e-commercespace feel similar.
These are people that want tomake a change, but they're also
realists, right, like they likethe idea that somebody might be
using their product or gettingvalue from it, that they're
having that impact.
Right Like they might not be adoctor, they might not be a
nurse, they might not be, likeyou know, the big guy on TV
(14:36):
doing the political harmmovements, but they have an
impact and it's a real impactand I think that's what's so
attractive about e-commerce isit's like you know, man sells
water bottle, person drinks outwater bottle.
I impacted person Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Absolutely, Absolutely Now.
So when would have?
About what year would have youstarted on amazon?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
so let me go back.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I think I started in 2015 on amazon okay, I would
consider those days still thewild west, uh it's the back half
of the wild west.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
But like that's when you still had vendor central and
all that stuff still goingright like it was.
It was like crazy.
So funny story with the vendorcentral program.
I think they just continuedthat like 2018, like we're going
way back.
We were selling furniturethrough vendor central by the
container load right so the big40 foot containers that come off
(15:34):
container ships.
We'd get a container offurniture in, we'd load a 53
foot tractor trailer and Amazonwould buy all that inventory
right off the bat and then theywould sell it and mark it up,
rather than like theconventional method where you
choose your price and you chooseall that right.
So Amazon was like doing thislike hybrid wholesale thing they
called Vendor Central.
(15:55):
Well, three years of doing that, all of a sudden I hear this
truck horn right outside thebuilding and this truck's like
I'm here with delivery.
Amazon dropped off an entiretruckload of returns for that
and then took credits back forthat entire truckload of you
(16:16):
know return furniture, whichit's return furniture.
I wouldn't I would have paidthem to keep it right Like it's.
It's beat to death furniture.
But it was that kind of timewhere there was like this weird
hybrid mesh going on and youknow they were still figuring
out their business model, a lotof sellers were still figuring
out their business model andlike these, like weird
(16:43):
interactions, like that wererelatively common.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's a lot of stories likethat of the Amazon Amazon and
the Amazon third party sellersometimes being in conflict with
each other, and so are youstill selling on amazon.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
No, no, I, I ran for the hills, okay, I.
So we're selling on amazon.
I will give the caveat is theultimate um mountain, the summit
.
Right, because you can haveunparalleled success.
I mean, their buyer pool isamazing, right, you're going to
reach so many people that itbecomes a necessity to go on
(17:22):
Amazon.
Build the brand, right, even ifyou're doing wholesale.
Right, you want to build thebrand on Amazon so there's some
name recognition, so you can getin the X store or Y store and
go on the channel and the wholenine yards.
But what ended up happening tome was I was lucky enough that
when I started doing the 3PLservices on top of selling, on.
(17:44):
Amazon.
The revenue for the 3PL waslarger than the revenue from
doing Amazon.
So by virtue of that, it tooklike three or four years to get
out of it, but by like 2020, Iwas pretty much done with Amazon
.
So it's funny One of my my lastbig experience with Amazon was
actually the toilet papershortage.
(18:06):
So, like I said, we started ina wholesale area so we had like
miscellaneous paper products andstuff like that that, like you
know, dollar stores and mom andpop stores would buy.
So I happen to have threecontainers of toilet paper
upstairs in the building whenthe COVID disaster happened,
with all the toilet papershortages, and I happen to have
(18:29):
listings built out on Amazon forevery product in the building,
even if I wasn't selling it.
So when Amazon shut thatcategory down, I was able to
sell toilet paper.
So that was kind of like thelast hurrah of our Amazon
account was like let's move.
You know, half a milliondollars worth of toilet paper in
a week.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's awesome.
That's awesome and that is.
That would be a cool, cool timeto be a part of that.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
It was great we actually got.
At that time we only had acouple of employees working at
the 3PL, so we actually went tolocal bars and restaurants and
hired the bar staff to come inand pack toilet paper and work
part-time, Because at that pointthings were uncertain and all
the industry workers were losingtheir jobs.
(19:15):
We were like hey, if you wantto learn how to work at a 3PL.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
That's awesome.
Come on down, that's awesome.
Now you engage with a lot ofe-commerce professionals in in
what you're doing, and so andwe've got a lot of Amazon
sellers that listen to this whatwould be your advice to
somebody who's heavily involvedin Amazon maybe 90% of their
business is Amazon but wants todiversify?
(19:42):
What would be yourrecommendation?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah.
So there's a concept that, asfar as I know, I'm the only one
pushing it, and I call itdigital real estate, right?
So the idea is just like how,when you go into a store, you
know people pay for certainshelf placements, right, people
try to get into more stores,more locations.
It's the same thing with yourdigital presence, right?
(20:07):
So if you're just selling onAmazon, that's great.
The problem is, you have aproblem, you have a conflict,
you have something arise.
You have a problem, you have aconflict, you have something
arise.
They can literally cut yourcash flow off, right?
So a lot of people want todiversify and what you realize
is that it's a sum of all thesesmaller parts, not any one of
(20:28):
these smaller parts, that'sgoing to save you.
So I used to really preach eBayand Walmart.
Well, now times are changing.
Now I'm preaching TikTok shop,right, like.
But the point is, you know youhave these other channels.
You still have eBay.
You still have Walmart, right.
You have Wayfair, depending onwhat category you're in right.
(20:48):
You have all the othermarketplaces, like Newegg, right
.
And then you have these likenew emerging social channels,
right, where a lot of people areselling through TikTok shop.
They are selling throughInstagram and they are having
success doing it.
So my big word of advice is tojust take up space, right, and
(21:08):
that means get on all theseplatforms and integrate them in
a way that it's easy for you tofulfill them from one source,
right?
So, whether that's a 3PL orin-house, you can use software
to consolidate these orders intoone pipeline and you're not
even going to realize you're on15 different websites selling,
right?
So that's my biggest piece ofadvice.
(21:31):
But the other side of this isalso to increase the footprint
within each of thosemarketplaces, right?
So, if you're selling something, introduce more variations,
right.
Introduce more pack sizes,things that can be easily done,
and one of the keys here iskitting and bundling, right.
So let's say, you sellsomething at a 12 pack, why not
(21:55):
sell it at a 60 pack?
Why not sell it in a 120 pack?
Right, you already are sellingsomething in a 12 pack.
Why not sell it in a 60 pack?
Why not sell it in a 120 pack?
Right, you already are sellingit in a 12 pack.
You can go to the shelf, youcan grab five of them off and
throw them in a bag.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It's, it's, it's these little things like this
that allow you to grow both onamazon and off amazon I like it,
I it and yeah, the kidding andbundling one is one that I've
used and it's an easy win, it'san easy win.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
And it takes up space .
If you sell one or two more ofX-pack size and Y-pack size,
that's one or two sales youdidn't have?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, absolutely no.
I fully agree with that.
So now, one thing that I'veobserved being involved in
e-commerce and before I go intothis, I'm going to preface it
with the people that made themost money during the gold rush
were the people that sold theshovels.
(22:52):
Okay, so here's my observation.
Generally, when people startgetting into e-commerce, they
start as a seller.
They may private label, dropship, but they are doing the
thing, they're the seller, andthey'll either have success or
not, but it seems like the onesthat are successful.
They may exit their businessand you may think, oh, you
(23:16):
exited your business.
I'll bet that you're just goingto go do that again because you
have built up this skill set.
That is valuable, but I oftensee that they don't.
They go and start a businessthat is in service of sellers.
They are selling the shovels tothe gold miners and or Amazon
sellers in this example, and Iam guilty of that, I and it
(23:41):
sounds like that's a similarpath to you, and so I'm curious
why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
It's.
It's the simple age old prof.
It's the simple age old processof selling solutions to
problems.
And I think the problem is thatpeople don't know these
problems exist until they livethe experience right.
So if you never have thestruggles of being the Amazon
seller with you know, threeboxes in your closet, you don't
(24:10):
know what kind of problems thosepeople deal with.
Right, you don't know about thecustomer support problems.
You don't know about theinventory stock out killing your
sales velocity.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
And because of this I think itbecomes a natural progression
for people in the industry tofind a problem and go I can
(24:32):
solve that problem better thanothers in the industry.
So let me go with a perfectexample of how I got to where
I'm at now.
Right?
So in the Amazon space I startedusing a 3PL.
I'm not going to name what 3PLI used, but I got that first
bill.
I realized it was costing memore money to ship from that 3PL
(24:54):
than if I just bought thelabels myself or I shipped it
from Amazon.
So I'm like, why am I using a3PL?
And it made me realize that,like, I don't understand what a
3PL is.
These guys that I'm talking todon't know what a 3PL is.
My other friend that doesn'tsell doesn't know what a 3PL is.
So I started doing research, Istarted figuring out how they
make money, how does it work?
(25:15):
Right.
And at that point in time Iintroduced a pricing model that
was actually similar to whatShipBob currently does, and I
had it predating them.
And you know, now I have adifferent pricing model.
But the point is, you know, Isaw a need for adjustment to the
way 3PLs were selling andpriced and I introduced a 3PL to
(25:36):
the market that behaved in away priced, and I introduced a
3PL to the market that behavedin a way that I would have
wanted a 3PL to behave to me.
And now I'm doing a new thing Icall the Racklify right, which
is a marketplace that helpspeople find 3PLs, and I started
this because of the matchmakingindustry, right.
So there's a whole matchmakingindustry above 3PLs that sell
(25:56):
leads to 3pls.
So when you call one of thoserandom guys on the internet that
says, hey, I can place you in a3pl absolutely free, what
they're doing is they're callingthe 3pl saying, hey, I got a
hot lead, you want to pay me athousand dollars for it, right.
And then, if you sign them,let's do a one percent revenue
share, right.
So what's happening is thesemerchants are being sold to the
(26:17):
highest bidder by thematchmakers, and I think that's
yucky right.
They've tried to get me to buythese leads, so I said why don't
I build a platform that's freeto use, that has all this
information just out there andto an advertising based model?
Right, similar to Amazon?
Right, you want betterplacement, you pay for it, but
(26:39):
we're not going to incentivize.
You know you get the lead, oryou get the lead, or you get the
lead because you know weshouldn't have sellers
indirectly pay for that.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I like that, I like that.
And I, when I remember, Iremember signing up with my
first 3PL and I probably at theend of that was like, am I
getting a good deal?
You know, I did some researchbut there wasn't a place to have
you know, one common, you know,like a competitive bidding
(27:09):
process or seeing what everybodyoffers.
So I really like that.
I really like that.
What is so for the e-commerceentrepreneur, 3pl is a tool, you
know, a tool in the tool belt,and how you know, with the
successful entrepreneurs thatyou're working with, how are
they using that tool or wheredoes a 3PL come in?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
So I'll give you the honest answer and I'll give you
the sales answer back to back.
The honest answer is the peoplethat are using 3PLs the most
effectively are the people thathave the highest need, right, so
these are people that are maybein Europe, right, maybe in
Australia they don't have aphysical building, they can't
buy a physical staff right, it'dbe really hard to police an
(27:53):
employee over here in America ifyou're over there in Italy,
right, these are the people thatreally really need the 3PLs,
same with people that are on theWest Coast that need an East
Coast facility, or vice versa.
Then I'll give you the salesanswer, which I think really
depends on you as theentrepreneur, which is 3PLs,
(28:14):
free up your time and thatallows you to do more stuff,
which allows you to make moresales, which allows you to make
more money.
And the reason I say this isthe sales answer is for some
people that's true, right, likewe have clients that come in and
because now they don't have toworry about shipping stuff, they
scale.
But I have other clients thatcome in and their scale never
(28:37):
really grows, and I don't knowif it's because they're not
redirecting their timeeffectively or whatever, but the
age old sales pitch from thethree PL is it frees up your
time and it frees up yourability to go do other stuff.
So I think that really comesdown to what is that other stuff
?
How likely are you to do it?
And, you know, is this a goodjump for you and, I think, for a
(29:00):
lot of brands that arehyperscale focus, you know,
really looking to expand quickly, they want that infinite level
of reach, right, almost infinitestorage.
A 3PL is a great solution.
But I think people need to askthemselves why am I going for
this 3PL?
Am I going to go work on a 3PLbecause I, you know, want to
(29:22):
save 30 minutes of packing in myafternoon?
Or am I doing this because it'sactually going to allow me to
scale?
I'm going to use that 30minutes to make some more sales
calls.
Maybe, you know, engage withsome other people, right?
So that's my cautionary tale ofthe 3PL is 3PLs are great.
They're going to let you scale.
There's a reason why so manypeople use them, but you want to
(29:45):
make sure that, if you're goingto go transition to a 3PL, that
it makes sense and that you'reactually going to take advantage
of the benefits that come withthat 3PL.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I like both your salesy andyour practical answer and I
think both of them make a lot ofsense.
Now for Amazon sellers thatecosystem has changed a lot
since COVID.
It always felt like we werehandcuffed to using Amazon
fulfillment so we could get theprime batch for and there was
(30:18):
seller fulfilled prime, but itseemed to be tough to find a
logistics network that couldactually deliver on that Um and
and so, and then they built abunch more storage facilities uh
, in my opinion they probablyoverbuilt.
And then they introduced AWD,uh, which is kind of like a
holding warehouse with a lowerfee before it goes into an FBA
(30:46):
warehouse.
Where does a 3PL come in andwhat's a successful strategy of
utilizing a 3PL and ultimatelykind of minimizing storage fees?
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Yeah.
So one of the things that Iwant to kind of side tangent on
here, because you just hit thenail on the head right, they're
just released AWD and the costsare lower, but they're not that
low.
And there's a competing servicethat's known as FBA prep.
Right, and it's a subset of the3PL space, right, some 3PLs
(31:30):
offer this as an additionalservice.
Some 3PLs just do Amazon prepand the idea is that they have
lower storage fees and lowerlabeling fees and lower bubble
wrap fees and lower packagingfees than Amazon.
So, theoretically, you sendyour bulk to one of these
facilities and then you sendsmaller lots over time.
So, at our 3PL shipmate this isa large part of our client base
(31:53):
is Amazon sellers that are, youknow, basically using us to
break bulk.
Right, we'll take in acontainer and we'll send two,
three pallets every couplemonths to Amazon, right?
So that's the way that I see alot of like the highly Amazon
integrated sellers using 3PLseffectively.
(32:14):
Now, what?
I think the correct way to usea 3PL is in conjunction with
Amazon.
So the seller-fulfilled Primebadge is a must Sorry, not
seller-fulfilled badge.
The Prime badge itself is amust.
At this point, we've basicallybecome dependent on it as
(32:36):
consumers and, let's face it,that's where the sales are.
So I see a lot of peopleemploying hybrid strategies
where maybe their faster movinggoods are sold at FBA with the
Prime badge and the long tail isfulfilled from a 3PL.
So perfect example.
(32:57):
One of our largest clients doesnuts and bolts.
If you think about nuts andbolts, how often do you need a
reverse threaded metric nut fora conveyor belt, right?
You don't need it that often.
Yeah, we might sell that parttwo times a year if we're lucky,
right.
So what happens is he takes hisfaster moving, like everyday
(33:20):
hardware stuff, sends that offto Amazon and his slower moving
stuff that, like, he sells oneor two lots of a year for, you
know, $600.
It just lives on a shelf at a3PL.
So that's a great way I seepeople doing it.
And then I also see peopleusing the 3PL to fulfill you
(33:40):
know the other marketplaces,right?
So like, for example, wayfair,tiktok or Walmart.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Like I could fulfill Etsy orders with Amazon FBA
inventory but like when Walmartcame on the scene, that was a
big deal.
Was you need to have separateWFS inventory or fulfill those
out of a 3PL, and you looked atthe opportunity and then you
looked at the amount of capitalyou would need for that much
more inventory.
That would only service thismarket and so, yeah, I like that
(34:17):
.
Married up with your digitalreal estate where you can really
go omni-channel, that makes aton of sense.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Well, that's the idea is the omni-channelness of it.
And, like I said, a place I seefor a lot of curious FBA guys
is the FBA prep angle right,because if you can save on your
storage, you can save on yourlabeling.
It's a great way to get arelationship going and then go
(34:44):
hey, I'm thinking about Walmart,hey, I'm thinking about Wayfair
, hey, I'm thinking about TikTokshop.
And then you can add thoseother services or explore the
rates and see what makes sensewhile you already have an
established relationship that'salready benefiting your business
.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Outstanding, outstanding.
This has been a great deep diveinto the 3PL side of things,
and I think for e-commerceentrepreneurs, it's something
that's critical to learn aboutand needs to be part of your
equation, and so anything elseyou want to mention about
Racklify before we get into thefire round.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, I just want to say that Racklify is free to
explore.
It's kind of like Zillow forwarehouses, right.
So you can get on there.
You can navigate the map, youcan see what's near you.
You can check out some of thecool 3PLs in Kansas that are in
like mines and tunnels right,they're all on there.
So I just encourage people tocheck things out.
(35:41):
You know it's free to browse.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Awesome.
We'll post a link to that inthe show notes.
All right, Bill.
Next is a fire round.
This is four questions we askevery guest at the end of the
episode.
Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (35:54):
I am ready.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
All right, what's your favorite book?
Speaker 3 (35:57):
So my favorite book is called Smart Pricing how
Google, priceline and leadingbusinesses use pricing, and it's
by John Zhang.
He's a professor at Wharton andthis book basically teaches you
how to price your products fore-commerce right.
It tells you the pricingstrategies that large businesses
(36:18):
are using you know, amazonsellers, how the Chinese
factories price their goods, andit really allows you to like
dial in and come up with ways touse mathematical formulas to
fine tune that pricing.
So when I was selling on Amazon, this was like my go-to book
and I'd have like notes of it.
I'd lend it to everybody I know.
(36:39):
So that's a real niche, onethat I think your audience is
going to love, and I've gotten,like you know, tens of thousands
of dollars worth of use out ofthat book.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
That's awesome and I so I'm going to.
I just added that to my Amazoncart.
Is this one so there are somebooks that are good on Audible
cart?
Is this one so there are somebooks that are good on audible,
some that you want to have infront of you like sometimes like
number?
Is this one that you wouldencourage?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
hard copy.
I would encourage hard copy.
It's an educational book, yeah,so get ready for like the
traditional college soft book,uh, kind of read.
But, like I said, if you readit and you understand it and
you're somebody that'sconstantly pricing things, this
is like the only book I've foundthat's like about pricing.
(37:26):
It's about picking the numberat which to sell somebody
something which is exciting.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Nice, nice, all right .
Next question what are yourhobbies?
All right.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Next question what are your hobbies?
So I have a few hobbies.
So number one is I am a hugeSwifty, so I am Taylor Swift's
biggest fan.
All right, right, but in termsof hobbies, I like to fish, I
like concerts, so I go to a tonof concerts.
It was one thing.
And you know I love sports, soI go to a lot of sporting events
(37:56):
.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Outstanding.
What is one thing you do notmiss about working for the man?
Speaker 3 (38:04):
So I've never, worked for the man, fun fact.
So I I like to think that youknow the extra 15 minutes on the
snooze and you know getting thecoffee at Dunkin' Donuts and
being able to pick my own startand stop time is probably the
biggest.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
You're one of the rare unicorns.
I'm not sure if we've ever hadanyone like you who's?
Never worked for the man.
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
All right and final questionwhat is something you think sets
apart successful entrepreneursfrom those who give up, from
those who give?
Speaker 3 (38:37):
up, fail or never get started.
I think the initial inertia isthe big one right.
So I'm a big fan of I call itthe B plus principle, and that
is I don't like to wait, I liketo just do something.
I have an idea, I have athought in mind, a process.
I like to act, and the way Idetermine if something's good
(39:03):
enough to put out there or goodenough to introduce to the world
is what I call the B plusprinciple, which is, if it gets
a B plus I send.
I don't shoot for the A minus,I don't shoot for the A, I don't
shoot for the A plus.
That stuff leads to inactionand that's what causes people to
give up on their dreams, theirhopes, their, their institutes a
degree of fear, like if you'realways striving for the A plus,
(39:25):
you introduce a lot ofdisappointment into your life
when you don't hit it.
But when you aim for the B plus, you can celebrate the A's.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Nice, nice, all right .
Well, bill, thank you for yourtime today.
If people are interested ingetting in touch with you or
checking out your podcast,what's the best way?
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yeah, so you can always find me on LinkedIn.
You can check out theDisruptive Minds podcast.
We also have the RacklifyYouTube channel, which actually
just surpassed 11,000subscribers and 1.5 million
views.
So that's the front.
Nice that million views.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
So that's the front.
Nice, that's outstanding Cool,all right, bill.
Well, thank you so much andlooking forward to staying in
touch.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah, awesome, nice talking to you too.
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income streams in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts, serialentrepreneurs David Shomer and
(00:22):
Ken Wilson entrepreneurs, davidShomer and Ken Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome back to another episode of Firing the
man podcast, where we bring youthe most insightful
conversations with trailblazersin business, e-commerce and
entrepreneurship.
Today, we have a special guestwho knows a thing or two about
disruption, innovation andchallenging the status quo.
Joining us is Bill Carlin, thehost of the Disruptive Minds
podcast, where he sits down withvisionaries, thought leaders
(00:51):
and industry pioneers to uncoverthe strategies and mindsets
behind game-changing businesses.
Bill has developed deepconversations with some of the
most innovative minds out there,and today we're turning the
tables to learn more about hisown journey.
In this episode, we'll dive deepinto what inspired Bill to
launch his podcast, the impactit's had on his career, the most
(01:14):
memorable guest he's hosted andhis insights on where business
and e-commerce are headed in thefuture.
Whether you're an entrepreneur,a business leader or someone
who just loves hearing fromdisruptive thinkers, this
conversation is going to be oneyou will not want to miss.
Bill, welcome to the show.
Yeah, thanks for having meAbsolutely.
(01:34):
So, to start things off, canyou share with our audience a
little bit about your journey oflaunching the Disruptive Minds
podcast and what inspired that?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, so I'm going to take it way back, way before
there ever was a DisruptiveMinds podcast and what inspired
that?
Yeah, so I'm going to take itway back, way before there ever
was a Disruptive Minds podcastand start at the very beginning,
Right?
So a long time ago, you know, Iwas one of those small little
eBay sellers, you know, sellingsome stuff back in 2010, 2011.
And then I went off to collegeand I found myself doing
(02:06):
wholesale part-time, right.
So I was working with goodsbeing imported from China and
sold to small to medium-sizedretailers some like Sears right,
Ross's, Rose's right and I hadthis great idea why are we
selling this to retailers, right?
When we could just sell it onAmazon directly to the public?
(02:29):
And you know, this is about thetime when Amazon, you know, was
two years in the prime.
So we started selling on Amazon, really quickly ramped that up
to about, you know, almost $10million a year revenue.
And then, from there, we werelike, well, we're already
fulfilling our own stuff.
Why don't we fulfill otherpeople's stuff?
So that led to the developmentof Shitmate Fulfillment, which
(02:50):
I've been doing for the last 10years.
And that's kind of where theDisruptive Minds podcast kind of
came from is.
I was having these discussionsand stuff with people we were
bringing on the YouTube channelpeople we were doing guest blogs
with things like that.
I was like I have a prettylarge network, why don't I just
spin up a podcast in my sparetime and see where it goes?
(03:14):
So that led to the developmentof the Disruptive Minds podcast
and it's been fun.
You know we've done I think 40,50, some odd episodes.
I'm a little less consistentwith it than I used to be where
it was.
You know scheduled episodesthat came out on a fixed
schedule, but we're stillreleasing episodes and we're
(03:34):
still going strong.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Outstanding.
Well, it's fun to talk toanother podcaster because I
think we share a uniqueexperience that a lot of people
don't have.
And you know, when people askme, you know I've been doing it
for six years we're at episodelike in the yeah 265.
And people ask what's it like?
And I would compare it togetting like a PhD in business.
(03:59):
I mean, you have, I've had 265professors.
I've learned something fromeverybody and it's been an
absolutely outstanding process.
If someone were to give me amillion dollars tomorrow to stop
podcasting, I would not take it, and so I'm curious, like
what's been your experience withit?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
So my experience with it has really been the network
effects, right.
So a lot of these people I'vealready known.
But then I went off and I goton like some of network effects
right, so a lot of these peopleI've already known.
But then I went off and I goton like some of the platforms,
right.
I got on like Podmatch and Istarted doing some like LinkedIn
prospecting and then peoplejust started showing up my email
inbox, which was really weird,right, just like, oh, how'd you
get that?
But okay, I'll talk to you.
You know I talked to all kindsof people, right.
(04:45):
So you know, it got to the pointwhere, you know, I can really
choose who I wanted to talk toand why I wanted to talk to them
, and it really allowed me toexplore topics that either I was
curious about or my listenerswere curious about, and it
really let me, like, choose myown adventure.
And that's what I thought waslike really unique about
(05:07):
podcasting.
Flip the other way around,right, like the listener gets to
choose their own adventurebecause they get to listen to
different hosts or a differentpodcast, but the podcast host
literally has like that ultimatelevel of control where it's
like I'm going to talk to theguy who has this startup, or
this guy made me laugh.
I'm going to talk to him andjust see what he's about.
(05:28):
Right, and that level ofcontrol, I think, is what makes
the podcaster experience so muchdifferent.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Absolutely.
I agree with everything thatyou said in terms of my own
experiences, and so witheverything that you said in
terms of my own experiences, andso you know, as I look back on
my tenure as podcast host, thereare a couple guests that stand
out as they said something orthey told a story that changed
the course of my life or changedthe way I thought about
(06:00):
business.
Curious, who have been those,like who have been the most
impactful guests for you?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah.
So I think back to some of likethe earlier episodes, and the
things that have really impactedme the most as a host have been
the story-driven works, right,like people that have had great
stories, because you know it'salways great to throw back to
(06:28):
like an idea or a concept, butif there's somebody you talk to
and their story really resonateswith you, you seem to remember
more of the conversation, right.
So, like, one of the first guysI had on the guy's name was
nicky and he was like aimmigrant right who like came to
america because he was likepersecuted and then started a
(06:51):
bunch of businesses, and it waslike really interesting to hear
like especially like at the timesomebody speak positively about
the country right, and likeactually have like a positive,
optimistic outlook based onsaying, hey, I was here and now
I'm here and I think it was likea really eye-opening
(07:14):
conversation because it likemade you great right, and I I
feel like a lot of times we wehave this abundance mindset in
podcasts, right, like we're outthere looking for like this next
nugget, right Mining for gold,and you don't really realize how
much of an abundance therereally is, because 10, 15, 20
years ago people didn't havethese kinds of outlets, people
(07:35):
didn't have these channels toengage and have these
conversations.
And that's why that one sticksout to me in particular.
Right Like I can go through aname like oh, I learned this
lesson from this marketing guru.
Or oh, this guy who did thisconsulting thing.
He had this great saying let merattle it off real quick, but
really those like stories andlike how people come up with
(07:57):
these ideas and realizing that,like everybody has that struggle
, everybody has that struggle,everybody has that path right.
And it really grounds you inreality.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Now, one of the things that asa podcaster you get to talk to a
lot of successful people andover time you start to notice
some common threads of thingsthat these successful people
have in common.
Curious, what have been some ofthose common threads that
you've observed?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So I've noticed and I'm going to go off on a little
bit here because you know I runa business and interact with
other businesses all the timeright, I go to trade shows every
other week, right, like I'mvery engaged, and what I've
realized is there's two types ofpeople that I think succeed.
The first are the marketers,right, and the second are the
(08:50):
people who build truly great andoriginal things.
And these are the two peoplethat I seem to run into again
and again and again.
Right, the guy who cancaptivate somebody with his
messaging, with his content,with his story, with his you
know, packaging, the colors, theway everything integrates,
(09:12):
right, that's the mastermarketer.
That's the guy who has likemagnetism Think of him as like
your overly social friend thateverybody at the party wants to
be around.
Those guys have success ine-commerce.
They have success in businessin general because people want
to be around them.
Those guys have success ine-commerce.
They have success in businessin general because people want
to be around them, becausethey're magnetic.
And then you have the otherpeople that are like more of an
innovator right, it's thatsocially awkward guy.
(09:34):
You walk up to his booth at thetrade show and you go.
You built this robot that likecalls people and and like he,
he's like real shy, but at thesame time you're like this is so
original, this is so great,that innovation on that product
I would have never thought aboutRight.
And these guys also succeedbecause they just have a truly
great product and they outworkpeople.
(09:56):
So in my time around, I wouldsay that probably 80 percent of
the successful people I meetfall into one of these two
products.
Either they're an innovator orthey're, you know, your social
butterfly marketer type.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I like that and I've neverthought of dividing them into
those camps.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
But as I think of previous guests, I can
definitely think of those twodistinct individuals
entrepreneurial bone right thatgo out there and they buy some
(10:37):
stuff and they sell it on amazon.
Those guys usually fit in oneof those two camps.
They're even like this idea isso genius, I'm gonna innovate
that, I'm gonna, you know, bringthat to the market.
It's gonna work.
Or they're like you know theycould sell.
You know they could sell sandin a desert, right.
Like that kind of personalityabsolutely one.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I've observed I'm curious if you have observed
this as well is grit, like youmay have, you may think, like
the listeners may think, like,oh, maybe an Ivy League
education is what leads a lot ofpeople to be successful, which,
yes, that does help, but Iwould say, like more so than
that is grit, and like failurein response to failure.
(11:16):
What's your read on that?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
So, as somebody with an Ivy league education, I can
say that the the grit thing isreally interesting, because when
you look at people that I knowthat have succeeded, whether
they went to an Ivy leagueschool or not, they're the kind
of people that brag about thehard work, right.
So you have some people they'rejust not cut out for it, right.
They can't.
(11:38):
They don't have that grit, theydon't have that determination.
They take the easy route.
But like I remember, you know,10 years ago, being in college
and somebody waking up andbragging, going well, I was up
till three o'clock last nightdoing that paper.
And most of those guys now have,like, very, very successful
careers, right.
And the same thing's true inentrepreneurship.
Like these guys who have thesebattle tested stories, the guys
(12:01):
that are like sleeping on thefloor of their office.
You know one, there's somethinga little little loose up there,
but that's what gets them goingRight.
That's where they derive thejoy they love.
You know the whole path to thatsuccess, and those are the
people that really succeed, arethe people that embrace the
journey, and they embrace theups and downs of the journey.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Where'd you go to school?
I went to Penn.
Very nice, very nice, yeah, and, and and I should point out Ivy
league and grit that ispossible and probably the
ultimate combination.
So not to, not to pick on IvyLeague.
So now you've put your eggs inthe e-commerce basket.
(12:43):
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah, I mean, I've been there forever.
Why?
It's the perfect combination,in my opinion, of immediate
success and delayedgratification.
Right.
So Rome isn't built in a day,but a successful ad campaign is
right.
Right, a successful productlaunch is right.
(13:08):
So you have this like mismatchof short and long term goals
that are not always present inother industries and other
places, right.
So when I think back to thedays of selling on Amazon right,
I could do one simple thinglike lower the price a dollar or
get an extra three reviews thatday, and I'd feel the instant
(13:31):
gratification, I feel thatinstant result.
But at the same time, I hadthese larger, longer visions.
I was developing product lines,I was building brands, brand
recognition and seeing Googletraffic go up for the brand
names that I was introducing atthat time.
And when you start being ableto have both that short-term
(13:55):
dopamine spike of wow, that adcampaign went well, or oh, that
sale went well, or oh, we didreally good on Black Friday
paired with the long-term, likeI built a brand, I built
something that people are using,right, it's like that ultimate
sense of fulfillment, becauseI'm somebody and I think a lot
(14:15):
of people in the e-commercespace feel similar.
These are people that want tomake a change, but they're also
realists, right, like they likethe idea that somebody might be
using their product or gettingvalue from it, that they're
having that impact.
Right Like they might not be adoctor, they might not be a
nurse, they might not be, likeyou know, the big guy on TV
(14:36):
doing the political harmmovements, but they have an
impact and it's a real impactand I think that's what's so
attractive about e-commerce isit's like you know, man sells
water bottle, person drinks outwater bottle.
I impacted person Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Absolutely, Absolutely Now.
So when would have?
About what year would have youstarted on amazon?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
so let me go back.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I think I started in 2015 on amazon okay, I would
consider those days still thewild west, uh it's the back half
of the wild west.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
But like that's when you still had vendor central and
all that stuff still goingright like it was.
It was like crazy.
So funny story with the vendorcentral program.
I think they just continuedthat like 2018, like we're going
way back.
We were selling furniturethrough vendor central by the
container load right so the big40 foot containers that come off
(15:34):
container ships.
We'd get a container offurniture in, we'd load a 53
foot tractor trailer and Amazonwould buy all that inventory
right off the bat and then theywould sell it and mark it up,
rather than like theconventional method where you
choose your price and you chooseall that right.
So Amazon was like doing thislike hybrid wholesale thing they
called Vendor Central.
(15:55):
Well, three years of doing that, all of a sudden I hear this
truck horn right outside thebuilding and this truck's like
I'm here with delivery.
Amazon dropped off an entiretruckload of returns for that
and then took credits back forthat entire truckload of you
(16:16):
know return furniture, whichit's return furniture.
I wouldn't I would have paidthem to keep it right Like it's.
It's beat to death furniture.
But it was that kind of timewhere there was like this weird
hybrid mesh going on and youknow they were still figuring
out their business model, a lotof sellers were still figuring
out their business model andlike these, like weird
(16:43):
interactions, like that wererelatively common.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's a lot of stories likethat of the Amazon Amazon and
the Amazon third party sellersometimes being in conflict with
each other, and so are youstill selling on amazon.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
No, no, I, I ran for the hills, okay, I.
So we're selling on amazon.
I will give the caveat is theultimate um mountain, the summit
.
Right, because you can haveunparalleled success.
I mean, their buyer pool isamazing, right, you're going to
reach so many people that itbecomes a necessity to go on
(17:22):
Amazon.
Build the brand, right, even ifyou're doing wholesale.
Right, you want to build thebrand on Amazon so there's some
name recognition, so you can getin the X store or Y store and
go on the channel and the wholenine yards.
But what ended up happening tome was I was lucky enough that
when I started doing the 3PLservices on top of selling, on.
(17:44):
Amazon.
The revenue for the 3PL waslarger than the revenue from
doing Amazon.
So by virtue of that, it tooklike three or four years to get
out of it, but by like 2020, Iwas pretty much done with Amazon
.
So it's funny One of my my lastbig experience with Amazon was
actually the toilet papershortage.
(18:06):
So, like I said, we started ina wholesale area so we had like
miscellaneous paper products andstuff like that that, like you
know, dollar stores and mom andpop stores would buy.
So I happen to have threecontainers of toilet paper
upstairs in the building whenthe COVID disaster happened,
with all the toilet papershortages, and I happen to have
(18:29):
listings built out on Amazon forevery product in the building,
even if I wasn't selling it.
So when Amazon shut thatcategory down, I was able to
sell toilet paper.
So that was kind of like thelast hurrah of our Amazon
account was like let's move.
You know, half a milliondollars worth of toilet paper in
a week.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's awesome.
That's awesome and that is.
That would be a cool, cool timeto be a part of that.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
It was great we actually got.
At that time we only had acouple of employees working at
the 3PL, so we actually went tolocal bars and restaurants and
hired the bar staff to come inand pack toilet paper and work
part-time, Because at that pointthings were uncertain and all
the industry workers were losingtheir jobs.
(19:15):
We were like hey, if you wantto learn how to work at a 3PL.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
That's awesome.
Come on down, that's awesome.
Now you engage with a lot ofe-commerce professionals in in
what you're doing, and so andwe've got a lot of Amazon
sellers that listen to this whatwould be your advice to
somebody who's heavily involvedin Amazon maybe 90% of their
business is Amazon but wants todiversify?
(19:42):
What would be yourrecommendation?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Yeah.
So there's a concept that, asfar as I know, I'm the only one
pushing it, and I call itdigital real estate, right?
So the idea is just like how,when you go into a store, you
know people pay for certainshelf placements, right, people
try to get into more stores,more locations.
It's the same thing with yourdigital presence, right?
(20:07):
So if you're just selling onAmazon, that's great.
The problem is, you have aproblem, you have a conflict,
you have something arise.
You have a problem, you have aconflict, you have something
arise.
They can literally cut yourcash flow off, right?
So a lot of people want todiversify and what you realize
is that it's a sum of all thesesmaller parts, not any one of
(20:28):
these smaller parts, that'sgoing to save you.
So I used to really preach eBayand Walmart.
Well, now times are changing.
Now I'm preaching TikTok shop,right, like.
But the point is, you know youhave these other channels.
You still have eBay.
You still have Walmart, right.
You have Wayfair, depending onwhat category you're in right.
(20:48):
You have all the othermarketplaces, like Newegg, right
.
And then you have these likenew emerging social channels,
right, where a lot of people areselling through TikTok shop.
They are selling throughInstagram and they are having
success doing it.
So my big word of advice is tojust take up space, right, and
(21:08):
that means get on all theseplatforms and integrate them in
a way that it's easy for you tofulfill them from one source,
right?
So, whether that's a 3PL orin-house, you can use software
to consolidate these orders intoone pipeline and you're not
even going to realize you're on15 different websites selling,
right?
So that's my biggest piece ofadvice.
(21:31):
But the other side of this isalso to increase the footprint
within each of thosemarketplaces, right?
So, if you're selling something, introduce more variations,
right.
Introduce more pack sizes,things that can be easily done,
and one of the keys here iskitting and bundling, right.
So let's say, you sellsomething at a 12 pack, why not
(21:55):
sell it at a 60 pack?
Why not sell it in a 120 pack?
Right, you already are sellingsomething in a 12 pack.
Why not sell it in a 60 pack?
Why not sell it in a 120 pack?
Right, you already are sellingit in a 12 pack.
You can go to the shelf, youcan grab five of them off and
throw them in a bag.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It's, it's, it's these little things like this
that allow you to grow both onamazon and off amazon I like it,
I it and yeah, the kidding andbundling one is one that I've
used and it's an easy win, it'san easy win.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
And it takes up space .
If you sell one or two more ofX-pack size and Y-pack size,
that's one or two sales youdidn't have?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, absolutely no.
I fully agree with that.
So now, one thing that I'veobserved being involved in
e-commerce and before I go intothis, I'm going to preface it
with the people that made themost money during the gold rush
were the people that sold theshovels.
(22:52):
Okay, so here's my observation.
Generally, when people startgetting into e-commerce, they
start as a seller.
They may private label, dropship, but they are doing the
thing, they're the seller, andthey'll either have success or
not, but it seems like the onesthat are successful.
They may exit their businessand you may think, oh, you
(23:16):
exited your business.
I'll bet that you're just goingto go do that again because you
have built up this skill set.
That is valuable, but I oftensee that they don't.
They go and start a businessthat is in service of sellers.
They are selling the shovels tothe gold miners and or Amazon
sellers in this example, and Iam guilty of that, I and it
(23:41):
sounds like that's a similarpath to you, and so I'm curious
why do you think that is?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
It's.
It's the simple age old prof.
It's the simple age old processof selling solutions to
problems.
And I think the problem is thatpeople don't know these
problems exist until they livethe experience right.
So if you never have thestruggles of being the Amazon
seller with you know, threeboxes in your closet, you don't
(24:10):
know what kind of problems thosepeople deal with.
Right, you don't know about thecustomer support problems.
You don't know about theinventory stock out killing your
sales velocity.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
And because of this I think itbecomes a natural progression
for people in the industry tofind a problem and go I can
(24:32):
solve that problem better thanothers in the industry.
So let me go with a perfectexample of how I got to where
I'm at now.
Right?
So in the Amazon space I startedusing a 3PL.
I'm not going to name what 3PLI used, but I got that first
bill.
I realized it was costing memore money to ship from that 3PL
(24:54):
than if I just bought thelabels myself or I shipped it
from Amazon.
So I'm like, why am I using a3PL?
And it made me realize that,like, I don't understand what a
3PL is.
These guys that I'm talking todon't know what a 3PL is.
My other friend that doesn'tsell doesn't know what a 3PL is.
So I started doing research, Istarted figuring out how they
make money, how does it work?
(25:15):
Right.
And at that point in time Iintroduced a pricing model that
was actually similar to whatShipBob currently does, and I
had it predating them.
And you know, now I have adifferent pricing model.
But the point is, you know, Isaw a need for adjustment to the
way 3PLs were selling andpriced and I introduced a 3PL to
(25:36):
the market that behaved in away priced, and I introduced a
3PL to the market that behavedin a way that I would have
wanted a 3PL to behave to me.
And now I'm doing a new thing Icall the Racklify right, which
is a marketplace that helpspeople find 3PLs, and I started
this because of the matchmakingindustry, right.
So there's a whole matchmakingindustry above 3PLs that sell
(25:56):
leads to 3pls.
So when you call one of thoserandom guys on the internet that
says, hey, I can place you in a3pl absolutely free, what
they're doing is they're callingthe 3pl saying, hey, I got a
hot lead, you want to pay me athousand dollars for it, right.
And then, if you sign them,let's do a one percent revenue
share, right.
So what's happening is thesemerchants are being sold to the
(26:17):
highest bidder by thematchmakers, and I think that's
yucky right.
They've tried to get me to buythese leads, so I said why don't
I build a platform that's freeto use, that has all this
information just out there andto an advertising based model?
Right, similar to Amazon?
Right, you want betterplacement, you pay for it, but
(26:39):
we're not going to incentivize.
You know you get the lead, oryou get the lead, or you get the
lead because you know weshouldn't have sellers
indirectly pay for that.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I like that, I like that.
And I, when I remember, Iremember signing up with my
first 3PL and I probably at theend of that was like, am I
getting a good deal?
You know, I did some researchbut there wasn't a place to have
you know, one common, you know,like a competitive bidding
(27:09):
process or seeing what everybodyoffers.
So I really like that.
I really like that.
What is so for the e-commerceentrepreneur, 3pl is a tool, you
know, a tool in the tool belt,and how you know, with the
successful entrepreneurs thatyou're working with, how are
they using that tool or wheredoes a 3PL come in?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
So I'll give you the honest answer and I'll give you
the sales answer back to back.
The honest answer is the peoplethat are using 3PLs the most
effectively are the people thathave the highest need, right, so
these are people that are maybein Europe, right, maybe in
Australia they don't have aphysical building, they can't
buy a physical staff right, it'dbe really hard to police an
(27:53):
employee over here in America ifyou're over there in Italy,
right, these are the people thatreally really need the 3PLs,
same with people that are on theWest Coast that need an East
Coast facility, or vice versa.
Then I'll give you the salesanswer, which I think really
depends on you as theentrepreneur, which is 3PLs,
(28:14):
free up your time and thatallows you to do more stuff,
which allows you to make moresales, which allows you to make
more money.
And the reason I say this isthe sales answer is for some
people that's true, right, likewe have clients that come in and
because now they don't have toworry about shipping stuff, they
scale.
But I have other clients thatcome in and their scale never
(28:37):
really grows, and I don't knowif it's because they're not
redirecting their timeeffectively or whatever, but the
age old sales pitch from thethree PL is it frees up your
time and it frees up yourability to go do other stuff.
So I think that really comesdown to what is that other stuff
?
How likely are you to do it?
And, you know, is this a goodjump for you and, I think, for a
(29:00):
lot of brands that arehyperscale focus, you know,
really looking to expand quickly, they want that infinite level
of reach, right, almost infinitestorage.
A 3PL is a great solution.
But I think people need to askthemselves why am I going for
this 3PL?
Am I going to go work on a 3PLbecause I, you know, want to
(29:22):
save 30 minutes of packing in myafternoon?
Or am I doing this because it'sactually going to allow me to
scale?
I'm going to use that 30minutes to make some more sales
calls.
Maybe, you know, engage withsome other people, right?
So that's my cautionary tale ofthe 3PL is 3PLs are great.
They're going to let you scale.
There's a reason why so manypeople use them, but you want to
(29:45):
make sure that, if you're goingto go transition to a 3PL, that
it makes sense and that you'reactually going to take advantage
of the benefits that come withthat 3PL.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I like both your salesy andyour practical answer and I
think both of them make a lot ofsense.
Now for Amazon sellers thatecosystem has changed a lot
since COVID.
It always felt like we werehandcuffed to using Amazon
fulfillment so we could get theprime batch for and there was
(30:18):
seller fulfilled prime, but itseemed to be tough to find a
logistics network that couldactually deliver on that Um and
and so, and then they built abunch more storage facilities uh
, in my opinion they probablyoverbuilt.
And then they introduced AWD,uh, which is kind of like a
holding warehouse with a lowerfee before it goes into an FBA
(30:46):
warehouse.
Where does a 3PL come in andwhat's a successful strategy of
utilizing a 3PL and ultimatelykind of minimizing storage fees?
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Yeah.
So one of the things that Iwant to kind of side tangent on
here, because you just hit thenail on the head right, they're
just released AWD and the costsare lower, but they're not that
low.
And there's a competing servicethat's known as FBA prep.
Right, and it's a subset of the3PL space, right, some 3PLs
(31:30):
offer this as an additionalservice.
Some 3PLs just do Amazon prepand the idea is that they have
lower storage fees and lowerlabeling fees and lower bubble
wrap fees and lower packagingfees than Amazon.
So, theoretically, you sendyour bulk to one of these
facilities and then you sendsmaller lots over time.
So, at our 3PL shipmate this isa large part of our client base
(31:53):
is Amazon sellers that are, youknow, basically using us to
break bulk.
Right, we'll take in acontainer and we'll send two,
three pallets every couplemonths to Amazon, right?
So that's the way that I see alot of like the highly Amazon
integrated sellers using 3PLseffectively.
(32:14):
Now, what?
I think the correct way to usea 3PL is in conjunction with
Amazon.
So the seller-fulfilled Primebadge is a must Sorry, not
seller-fulfilled badge.
The Prime badge itself is amust.
At this point, we've basicallybecome dependent on it as
(32:36):
consumers and, let's face it,that's where the sales are.
So I see a lot of peopleemploying hybrid strategies
where maybe their faster movinggoods are sold at FBA with the
Prime badge and the long tail isfulfilled from a 3PL.
So perfect example.
(32:57):
One of our largest clients doesnuts and bolts.
If you think about nuts andbolts, how often do you need a
reverse threaded metric nut fora conveyor belt, right?
You don't need it that often.
Yeah, we might sell that parttwo times a year if we're lucky,
right.
So what happens is he takes hisfaster moving, like everyday
(33:20):
hardware stuff, sends that offto Amazon and his slower moving
stuff that, like, he sells oneor two lots of a year for, you
know, $600.
It just lives on a shelf at a3PL.
So that's a great way I seepeople doing it.
And then I also see peopleusing the 3PL to fulfill you
(33:40):
know the other marketplaces,right?
So like, for example, wayfair,tiktok or Walmart.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Like I could fulfill Etsy orders with Amazon FBA
inventory but like when Walmartcame on the scene, that was a
big deal.
Was you need to have separateWFS inventory or fulfill those
out of a 3PL, and you looked atthe opportunity and then you
looked at the amount of capitalyou would need for that much
more inventory.
That would only service thismarket and so, yeah, I like that
(34:17):
.
Married up with your digitalreal estate where you can really
go omni-channel, that makes aton of sense.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Well, that's the idea is the omni-channelness of it.
And, like I said, a place I seefor a lot of curious FBA guys
is the FBA prep angle right,because if you can save on your
storage, you can save on yourlabeling.
It's a great way to get arelationship going and then go
(34:44):
hey, I'm thinking about Walmart,hey, I'm thinking about Wayfair
, hey, I'm thinking about TikTokshop.
And then you can add thoseother services or explore the
rates and see what makes sensewhile you already have an
established relationship that'salready benefiting your business
.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Outstanding, outstanding.
This has been a great deep diveinto the 3PL side of things,
and I think for e-commerceentrepreneurs, it's something
that's critical to learn aboutand needs to be part of your
equation, and so anything elseyou want to mention about
Racklify before we get into thefire round.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, I just want to say that Racklify is free to
explore.
It's kind of like Zillow forwarehouses, right.
So you can get on there.
You can navigate the map, youcan see what's near you.
You can check out some of thecool 3PLs in Kansas that are in
like mines and tunnels right,they're all on there.
So I just encourage people tocheck things out.
(35:41):
You know it's free to browse.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Awesome.
We'll post a link to that inthe show notes.
All right, Bill.
Next is a fire round.
This is four questions we askevery guest at the end of the
episode.
Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (35:54):
I am ready.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
All right, what's your favorite book?
Speaker 3 (35:57):
So my favorite book is called Smart Pricing how
Google, priceline and leadingbusinesses use pricing, and it's
by John Zhang.
He's a professor at Wharton andthis book basically teaches you
how to price your products fore-commerce right.
It tells you the pricingstrategies that large businesses
(36:18):
are using you know, amazonsellers, how the Chinese
factories price their goods, andit really allows you to like
dial in and come up with ways touse mathematical formulas to
fine tune that pricing.
So when I was selling on Amazon, this was like my go-to book
and I'd have like notes of it.
I'd lend it to everybody I know.
(36:39):
So that's a real niche, onethat I think your audience is
going to love, and I've gotten,like you know, tens of thousands
of dollars worth of use out ofthat book.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
That's awesome and I so I'm going to.
I just added that to my Amazoncart.
Is this one so there are somebooks that are good on Audible
cart?
Is this one so there are somebooks that are good on audible,
some that you want to have infront of you like sometimes like
number?
Is this one that you wouldencourage?
Speaker 3 (37:04):
hard copy.
I would encourage hard copy.
It's an educational book, yeah,so get ready for like the
traditional college soft book,uh, kind of read.
But, like I said, if you readit and you understand it and
you're somebody that'sconstantly pricing things, this
is like the only book I've foundthat's like about pricing.
(37:26):
It's about picking the numberat which to sell somebody
something which is exciting.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Nice, nice, all right .
Next question what are yourhobbies?
All right.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Next question what are your hobbies?
So I have a few hobbies.
So number one is I am a hugeSwifty, so I am Taylor Swift's
biggest fan.
All right, right, but in termsof hobbies, I like to fish, I
like concerts, so I go to a tonof concerts.
It was one thing.
And you know I love sports, soI go to a lot of sporting events
(37:56):
.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Outstanding.
What is one thing you do notmiss about working for the man?
Speaker 3 (38:04):
So I've never, worked for the man, fun fact.
So I I like to think that youknow the extra 15 minutes on the
snooze and you know getting thecoffee at Dunkin' Donuts and
being able to pick my own startand stop time is probably the
biggest.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
You're one of the rare unicorns.
I'm not sure if we've ever hadanyone like you who's?
Never worked for the man.
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
All right and final questionwhat is something you think sets
apart successful entrepreneursfrom those who give up, from
those who give?
Speaker 3 (38:37):
up, fail or never get started.
I think the initial inertia isthe big one right.
So I'm a big fan of I call itthe B plus principle, and that
is I don't like to wait, I liketo just do something.
I have an idea, I have athought in mind, a process.
I like to act, and the way Idetermine if something's good
(39:03):
enough to put out there or goodenough to introduce to the world
is what I call the B plusprinciple, which is, if it gets
a B plus I send.
I don't shoot for the A minus,I don't shoot for the A, I don't
shoot for the A plus.
That stuff leads to inactionand that's what causes people to
give up on their dreams, theirhopes, their, their institutes a
degree of fear, like if you'realways striving for the A plus,
(39:25):
you introduce a lot ofdisappointment into your life
when you don't hit it.
But when you aim for the B plus, you can celebrate the A's.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Nice, nice, all right .
Well, bill, thank you for yourtime today.
If people are interested ingetting in touch with you or
checking out your podcast,what's the best way?
Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yeah, so you can always find me on LinkedIn.
You can check out theDisruptive Minds podcast.
We also have the RacklifyYouTube channel, which actually
just surpassed 11,000subscribers and 1.5 million
views.
So that's the front.
Nice that million views.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
So that's the front.
Nice, that's outstanding Cool,all right, bill.
Well, thank you so much andlooking forward to staying in
touch.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah, awesome, nice talking to you too.
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