Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everyone to
the Firing the man podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income streams in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts, serialentrepreneurs David Shomer and
(00:22):
Ken Wilson entrepreneurs DavidShomer and Ken Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome everyone to
the Firing the man podcast,
where we dive into the journeysof entrepreneurs who've taken
the leap from employee tobusiness owner.
I'm your host, and today wehave a special guest who's
empowering veterans to do justthat.
Meet Zach Miller, the CEO ofPatriot Growth Capital.
With over 14 years ofexperience in sales leadership
and business development, zachis on a mission to help military
(00:51):
veterans transition intosuccessful business owners.
Drawing from his own family'smilitary background, he
understands the unique strengthsveterans bring to the
entrepreneurial world.
At Patriot Growth Capital, zachleads a team dedicated to
providing veterans with tools,mentorship and capital needed to
acquire and grow businesses.
(01:13):
Their approach not onlysupports individual success, but
also aims to creategenerational wealth and a
lasting legacy for veteranfamilies.
In this episode, we'll exploreZach's journey, the vision
behind Patriot Growth Capitaland how they're changing the
landscape for veteranentrepreneurs.
Stay tuned as we delve into theinspiring story of Zach Miller
(01:36):
and learn how he's helpingveterans fire the man and take
control of their futures.
Zach, very excited to have youon the show, welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Thank you so much,
david, very stoked to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Absolutely so to
start things off, can you share?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
with us a little bit
about yourself and your path in
the business world.
Yeah, you know a little off thepath of how I ended up where
I'm at today.
You know I'm the son of twoMarines, both mom and dad.
Interesting upbringing,definitely a lot of discipline
Got to be organized, got to makethe bed Chores got to get done.
But you know, through my lifeyou know I was pushed primarily
(02:16):
into sports.
You know both my parents hadsome, you know, challenges in
their childhoods and reallywanted to ensure that their kids
, you know, got to live out kindof their dreams and, you know,
be kids but also kind of sportswas a main focus.
You know, always growing up itwas a big one for my father and
my mom.
So, you know, at the age offour we began to, you know, play
(02:45):
sports and baseball, football,wrestling, and that really, you
know, was a lot of my life uptill I was 21 years old.
But, you know, through myupbringing kind of traditional,
I'd say like middle-class, livedin a great cul-de-sac and in a
good community and had a lot ofreally good friends, and my
parents, you know, had a reallygood social network as well.
So a lot of grill outs, a lotof pool parties and a lot of
socialization right, which Ithink helped me out later in
(03:07):
life.
You know being able tocommunicate with adults and
managers and executives, and youknow the people that would
eventually be above me and theroles that I worked till I got
into Patriot Growth Just a bigadvantage.
You know being able to lookpeople in the eye, communicate
and develop relationships withpeople.
You know, as I, you know againa not very non-traditional path,
(03:33):
but you know I went to go playfootball in college and ended up
having a few injuries that kindof stopped my career my
freshman year.
But through my earlier life, youknow, I really fell in love
with music.
Uh, but through my earlier life, you know I really fell in love
with music.
Um, that was something where,again, being pushed very hard in
sports, I always wanted to beknown, uh, not just as a jock,
(03:55):
uh, but you know, as you knowsomething, somebody that has
more to offer to the world.
And music was always a reallygood outlet for me.
Uh, writing, recording, playedmultiple instruments.
Music was always a really goodoutlet for me writing, recording
, played multiple instruments,always badgering my parents for
different instruments orrecording software, things like
that and to a point they met mewhere I was at.
But there's some funny storiesof when I would ask my dad for a
(04:19):
guitar or some cymbals, for thedrum kit, and he'd get me a
baseball bat.
So it was always kind ofpushing that sports back into my
life.
But through that, when thecareer-ending injury happened, I
actually had an opportunity tochase my musical dream.
So I'd always been playing inbands in the background but
didn't have a lot of time to doit necessarily full-time because
(04:41):
I was an athlete.
But when that happened I kindof I felt like God had finally
given me the gift of freedom,saying, hey, man, now's the time
, go chase that, go chase thatdream.
So you know, one of the bandsthat I had been playing with for
a number of years you know hadthe opportunity to go really
full-time in that and had a bitof success.
(05:02):
You know, got to open up forbands like Disturbed and some
really cool you know hard metalbands that I grew up really
loving playing some amazingvenues, doing some tours and you
know I thought that was goingto be it for me.
I felt like that's what God putme on earth to do, found my
identity through that which, youknow, later in life, you
(05:29):
realize, you know there's also areason why that didn't work out
as well.
But, you know, had a bit ofsuccess, tried to do the solo
stuff once the band kind ofwinded down.
Because, you know, basicallyplaying with a band, living with
a band, you know it's likehaving multiple lives right.
Like everybody has their ownlives, their own goals, their
own wants and needs.
It's very tough to keep theunit together and really, you
know, focused on the main goal.
So as soon as I saw that trainkind of veering off the tracks,
(05:52):
you know I had to kind of lookinternally and say, all right,
well, what are my expectationsof myself?
And you know, again, growing upin a military family, you know
being pushed very hard to be thebest at everything I do.
You know I ultimately beingpushed very hard to be the best
at everything I do.
You know I, I ultimately.
So I got to figure out a way tomake money.
Um, you know I do want to havea family one day.
(06:13):
So I got back into school, Iwent to the artist two of
Atlanta, um, and got anadvertising degree, a bachelor
in advertising.
And the beautiful thing aboutthe art Institute unlike SCAD
and some of these other artschools, you learn the business
side as well.
So I got you learn the businessside as well.
So I got very proficient in theAdobe CS suite with Illustrator
and Photoshop and all thosethings.
But I also learned the businessside and found out that I had a
(06:35):
knack for communicating andcommanding a room and you know,
I wanted to be a creativedirector.
I thought about Mad Men, Ireally wanted to own the room,
pitch the big brands on myawesome idea and, you know, win
the account.
So that's what I set my eyes onand as I transitioned out of
school, one of the prerequisitesmy last quarter was to get an
(06:58):
internship and you know, monthsprior we had a few different
advertising agencies come andspeak.
Again, I was older thaneverybody else in school at that
time because I'd already, youknow, I'd left the sports world,
that college and chase musicand then got back into school.
So I was always prepared whenwe had speakers.
I always had a resume ready.
(07:19):
It's one of the only kids inthe class, you know, that that
would, you know, was there toapproach the individual once
they got done speaking.
It's one of the only kids inthe class.
You know that.
That that would you know, wasthere to approach the individual
once they got done speaking.
And, uh, ben Thomas, who was aum creative director at 22
square, the big full serviceagency here in Atlanta, georgia.
Um, he said something about aninternship and we have this
opening up every summer, right,and it was very close to
summertime at that.
(07:39):
That time fit very well with mylast quarter and that
prerequisite I needed to meet.
So I approached Ben and said Iwant an opportunity to intern
with 22.
He said, all right, well, youneed to apply here.
Gave me all the info of what Ineeded to do with that.
But what I didn't know is thatI would be thrown into a pool of
(08:01):
about 200 people and only eightof us would be selected.
Um, but again, growing up, theway I grew up, learning how to
be social and you know, speak topeople above me uh, older than
me Um, I was able to work a roomwhen they brought us all in all
, 200 of us, um, for kind of thekind of open house you know
section of the internship, and Isaw what they were doing with
(08:23):
that specific night, that theyhad us all there, right.
That's all.
The managers were kind ofwatching how these individuals,
these you know prospectiveinterns, would interact with
each other and I just made it apoint to talk to everybody that
was executive leadership or amanager role at the agency and
also mingle with some of themore interns.
(08:44):
So I really worked the roomhard and that got me into, you
know, the top 20.
And then from there, anotheryou know rabbit I pulled out of
my hat, if you will was again.
I grew up within the socialworld, playing music.
I was on MySpace running thatfor our bands, helping book the
tours, so I knew how to usesocial media.
(09:05):
We're talking 2009, 2010 era atthis point.
So I, you know I quickly found,you know who would be my
managers the plate.
You know who I wanted to internfor at 22.
I figured out where they wereat on Facebook, twitter, started
kind of stalking them, if youwill, and learning what were
their hobbies, what were theyinto and just to who would be on
(09:27):
this team that would eventuallymanage me.
He was selling tickets for areally cool battle of bands
called Collaboration.
I love music.
I saw that he was sellingtickets for this.
He was kind of one of the boardof directors for this event and
(09:47):
reached out to him on Facebooknot via email, not just 22
squared, you know, specificcommunication.
But I reached out to him onFacebook and said, justin, I'd
love to grab some tickets, man,like you know, can we meet up?
Well, he actually, you know,responded directly back to me
like within a minute and said Iactually live right where you
live.
Why don't we meet up and I'llgive you the tickets there?
(10:10):
So I made sure that we met at apizza joint called Fellini's,
kind of iconic here in Atlanta,and he showed up with Natalie
Espanol, who was also going tobe on the team that was going to
be managing me if I got theinternship be on the team that
was going to be managing me if Igot the internship.
So this was a blessing and what.
What transpired from there wasI bought a pitcher of beer, they
bought a pitcher of beer,pitcher of beer, pitcher of beer
(10:34):
.
I mean, you know, at the end ofit they're like you got the
internship, the guy.
So I worked my way to thatposition and that was that was a
huge door opener for me,because then I got to work
underneath Justin and Natalie,but also Chris Tuff, who's who's
a big name here in Atlanta andhas, you know, published
multiple books and was a partnerat 22 squared, leading all the
social strategy for all thebiggest brands that they managed
.
Um, so in that internship I gotto create all of the social
(10:57):
content for Florida's naturalorange juice, buffalo wild wings
, pay less shoes Um, and I gotto leverage some really cool
technology.
That was a part of that.
Now that you know, this is thekind of the second tier of the
story where you know I wasworking within Social Bakers and
Vitru, which was a socialrelationship management tool so
think Sprinkler or Hootsuite anyof those platforms you use to
(11:20):
schedule your social media.
Well, vitru was actually aAtlanta-based startup, a really
good founder and CEO, reggieBradford had stood it up.
He was from Anheuser-Busch, wasa CMO at WebMD, had a really
cool track record, and I foundthem on YouTube.
Once I was using theirtechnology, I got kind of
intrigued with it.
I found some job listings onYouTube that they were posting.
(11:44):
This is kind of new schoolstuff.
They were being very innovativewhere the managers were
creating videos of hey, you know, I run mid-market sales we're
looking for.
You know we're looking to hire,you know 10 more employees like
reach out and one of those wasSteve Peterman, who eventually
became my manager at Vitru.
But a very funny story when Iwent to go interview with Steve
(12:06):
I was still in school.
I was interning at 22,bartending at the big catch here
in Buckhead.
And you know he's like when canyou start?
And I let him know I've got afew classes, I've got an
internship, but you know I couldwork three or four days a week,
work around my schedule, and helaughed at me.
(12:26):
You know he was like this is afull-time job, zach, reach out
to me when you graduate.
So I graduate, I'm stillinterning.
Now I've got an opportunity tocome on full-time to 22 Squared
and I get that job offer.
But I remember Steve Petermanbecause really, where I wanted
to work, I saw myself being moreof a salesperson, sales leader
and building that throughout mycareer.
So I reached back out to Steveand said, hey, I've graduated,
(12:52):
I'm ready to work.
He never responded to me.
What happens the followingweekend is I'm bartending on a
Saturday at the Big Catch,reggie, bradford.
The CEO comes in with his wifeand five kids after a soccer
match.
I hand my towel to my buddy,ben, and I say I'm taking that
table.
Do the best job I can do, youknow wait on them, serve them,
(13:14):
tell them about the specials youknow, try to blow their mind
with.
You know how great I am at thisservice aspect of it.
And when they get done, to paythe bill, holly, his wife, takes
the kids to the van, reggiestanding there.
And I said, reggie, youremember me.
I interviewed with StevePeterman.
I met you actually, you know,months prior, when you were
building out the office and Ireally want to work with you.
(13:36):
I know everything about yourcompetitors and I just listed it
off.
I, you know.
I know how to use your work,like, I know your capabilities,
I know the roadmap and I workwith some major brands that use
your technology.
Holly came back to wonder whyReggie had not paid the bill and
gotten in the car, overheard mesaying all this stuff and said
Reggie, give him a job.
And Reggie calls Steve Petermanright there, says make an offer
(13:58):
to Zach Miller, I want it inhis hands by Monday.
On Monday I got the offer andthat's how I ended up really
into this career of sales, rightand that's where I really
started.
So I worked with Vitru forthree years.
We were acquired by Oracle for$350 million and then what
transpired from there was allthe relationships I'd built
(14:18):
prior, you know, mentors andjust individuals where I showed
up and proved my worth throughworking really hard.
They started opening doors forme.
I got a call from Chris Tuffwhen I was on my way to a call
with Mizuno for Vitru that timeOracle and you know I'm in a
call.
I'm actually in the car with anew hire, who I'm he's shadowing
(14:41):
me and I put on speakerphone,really thinking that you know
puffing my chest up.
I got Chris Tuff calling melike he's shadowing me and I put
on speakerphone, reallythinking that you know puffing
my chest up.
I got Chris tough calling melike he's going to listen to
this call and tough, you know,tells me you're going to go meet
with Dave Williams.
He's the.
He was the founder of three 60.
I now he's running a reallycool startup called blink media,
their preferred marketdeveloper, and what that was was
we were selling Facebookadvertising before there was a
(15:01):
backend to do it yourselfself-service, and so I said I
took it off speaker and put thephone in my ear and learned a
little bit more about who Davewas and how I would go to meet
him.
But Tuff eventually set thatmeeting up for us.
We had one of those scotchlunches that you hear about in
(15:22):
the advertising world, and againit was just one of those
beautifulch lunches that youhear about in the advertising
world and again it was just oneof those those beautiful moments
where Dave Williams gives me ablack Amex and says you're going
to see her swim, you're goingto be my road dog, you don't
need to know anybody, I'llintroduce you to everybody.
But I need you to go, go, makeit happen and build some big
relationships with Facebook andthe Instagram crew at this time
was starting to develop and thatbecame, you know, the kind of
(15:46):
second win with us.
We were acquired by Gannett for80 million another 80 million
in stock, and that just becamemy career, where I was just you
know kind of a serialsalesperson and then sales
manager and building teams andthe whole goal, you know,
leading up through my old career, was kind of can we get the
company to 30 to $50 million ofannual recurring revenue?
(16:06):
And if we could do that, wecould sell for five to 10 X.
You know, it's typically alwaysSAS software.
There were some managed servicecomponents, but always SAS.
And I did that over and overagain and it just, you know,
right place, right time, workingmy butt off making things
happen.
But the beautiful thing aboutstartups is you have that direct
connection to the C-suite,right?
(16:26):
You know, the founders likethere are no walls, there's no
silos, it's everybody wearing alot of hats trying to make
things happen, and whatultimately ended up happening
was, you know, I rode this, thistrack till 2016, 2017.
And you know, when Trump cameinto office, the advertising
world got got to be a littletumultuous.
(16:48):
It was a little different,right?
Everybody had things to say andI started to look at myself and
say you know, do I want tocontinue to operate in this
capacity and have these, theserelationships that are
meaningful to me, but where Ican't be authentic and I didn't.
You know, I love everybodythere's.
No, I didn't see differentsides of everything, but it felt
(17:09):
like the creative communitycould, could speak out loud in a
room about whatever they werefeeling and I felt like I
couldn't right Cause.
Again, I'm I'm a salespersonand I'm trying to make sure our
relationships are tight, but Idon't want to overstep my bounds
or say something that would getme blacklisted or something
like that.
So I started to look atdifferent ways to make money,
(17:29):
different career paths, andalmost settled on being a wealth
manager.
And that was kind of the path Iwas going down in 2017, 2018,
studying for my Series 66 andall the fun certificates you
need to get.
And I was a week away fromtaking the test and got a call
from an old colleague that wasthe CEO of Omnicom, a massive
(17:51):
holding company for a lot ofagencies, ming Wu.
He was coming to be a CEO at anagency in Larkspur, california,
san Francisco.
Basically it was called Mogo,and Mogo had built up a massive
client base of educationaltheater departments.
(18:11):
That was their big thing andthey were starting to move into
sports as well.
So they would be the agency ofrecord, help with ticket sales,
all that sort of stuff, and theywere going to be acquired by
Learfield, which is one of theyou know, nation's largest
multimedia rights holders forcollegiate athletic space.
So Ming gives me a call, kind ofpitches me on this idea.
He's like we don't have aroadmap.
(18:33):
We need to build out somedigital capabilities.
They own 12 different companies.
They haven't leveraged any ofthe first party data.
You know this really well.
Would you want to?
Are you interested in?
You know helping me build this?
And you know it soundedintriguing, but I kind of knew
that I was already kind ofhalfway out the door, you know,
trying to achieve something elsein a different, completely
(18:54):
different world.
But you know, ming basicallysaid why don't you design the
offer letter, why don't youdesign the comp plan that works
for you?
And when I came back to himwith it was very aggressive,
like you don't got to pay me alot in base, but I want the
commission structure to bepretty aggressive and if I don't
like this in six months I leave.
(19:15):
Right, and that was kind ofthat was it.
And what ended up happening wassomething pretty incredible.
I mean, right place, right timeagain.
You know, when COVID hit thedigital product that I was
building, you know it was allabout first party audience and
programmatic advertising andthings that Learfield had not
been able to leverage yet, andwe built this product.
(19:36):
Covid hits and now fans are notshowing up to stadiums, right,
they're not showing up to theschools even so.
We don't even know if sportsare going to go on.
But Learfield had a big problemon their hands.
It was how do we de-risk thisrevenue and not have to refund
it?
So the whole goal for them wasall right, we are going to take
(19:56):
these dollars that we have onthe books, that are committed,
we're going to put them into fan365, the digital product that I
built, and, uh, we're going togive you what you paid for for
free next year If you, if youallow us to right.
So my entire, like building aproduct, staffing a team you
(20:17):
know it was.
It was a lot of work inmanaging every region plus the
national team that became, youknow, an 80 hour a week love of
labor, if you will.
But I had to go into every calland I had to pitch the
de-risking you know entire talktrack of how we're going to do
this and why they should spendmoney with us and allow us to
(20:38):
leverage this in digital.
And again, I just I was in theright place at the right time.
So it ended up being around$105 million of revenue that I
was able to book digitally andthen cross my fingers that Fan
365 performed the product that I, you know, had birthed from the
womb and brought into the world, actually performed.
And it did.
(20:58):
It kicked butt.
The click-through rates werenuts.
You know all the metrics thatwe wanted to see KPI-wise were
incredible.
The reach was awesome and oursponsors fell in love with it.
So you know that's the story ofhow I got there, and what
transpired through the next sixyears was a tremendous amount of
(21:18):
success Me being brought intothe national team to lead the
SEC and ACC multimedia rightdeals, working with the biggest
brands in the world, as I alwayshad, but now in a much more
leadership capacity and helpguiding them and with more
thought leadership on how theyshould spend the sponsorship
dollars effectively and leveragethe digital and all these
(21:38):
things that they hadn't hadaccess to.
And it was an amazing, amazingride.
I always told myself you know,when this train comes to a stop,
I'm ready to do something on myown.
I always knew I wanted to firethe man if you will, and that
just really came.
It came to a cusp.
The last two years I had fivedifferent bosses where I would
(21:59):
build a book intelecommunications or build a
book in the emerging marketworld Always a different
vertical doing exactly what mymanagers said or asked of me and
I just kind of got tiring ofbuilding a book, building
relationships that took time todevelop and then it being kind
of handed off or taken away fromme and me having to go do it
(22:20):
again in a different vertical.
So throughout that last year,you know, I met some amazing
people through the differentmasterminds groups that I'm in
and I'd known a few of them.
I've been in, you know, thelegendary mastermind with Tommy
Breedlove, which I recommend toeverybody.
I've been in that mastermindfor about eight years eight
(22:42):
years now, but a number of yearsand met a few of these partners
.
But more started to pop up, youknow, getting closer to this
kind of end date for me atLearfield and one of the big
goals that I threw out to thecrew on a retreat was you know,
I want to.
I don't want to start a startup.
I've done that.
I know how it works.
I want to buy a business that's, you know, already has systems
(23:03):
in place, already is profitableand take it to the next level.
Right, I would identify thingswithin the P&L and within the
business that I had a really bigcore competency in that they
weren't taking advantage of, andthat would be the business that
I'd buy, and maybe I'd buy afew, but it's more of a
lifestyle thing.
But I kind of threw that out tothe group.
That's what I want to do.
(23:23):
I want to get rid of thesegolden handcuffs.
When we all got done sharing, mypartner now Jonathan Bates kind
of nudged me.
He elbowed me right in the ribs.
I remember it and was like, heyman, what if we bought
companies that were profitable,just like you're saying, but we
brought veterans in to own andoperate those companies for us?
(23:44):
You know that was.
That was really the light bulbmoment.
I was like that's brilliant.
I've never thought about that,I've not, haven't done that
before, but I like, I like theidea.
Let's keep talking about it.
So in in January of 2024, burnthe, burn the ships, ships.
I already had kind of exitstrategy.
I was going to make it toAugust around kickoff and then
(24:07):
really take the leap.
So we started building for thatfirst half of the year and I
left corporate America inOctober to chase this dream full
time.
And that's the story, david.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I know it's a little
unwitted, but no, it's an
outstanding story, and there's acouple of things I want to
recap.
One observation I have is therewas a series of pivots right,
you started as an athlete andthen you went into being in a
band, and if you were to ask meseven years ago, prior to
(24:47):
starting this podcast, what doesstarting a band or being an
athlete have to do with beingsuccessful at business, I would
have said nothing.
And now today, as I sit here, Iwould say everything.
Simply, doing hard things andovercoming obstacles is critical
.
That is business right, and sothat's observation number one.
The other thing that I thinkpeople can take away from your
story is the common theme ofpersistence, like not waiting
(25:11):
for an opportunity to fall inyour lap, but to go.
I want that table, this is thecompensation plan that I want
and going out and getting it andbeing aggressive, and so I
really, really like that, andI'm really excited to dig into
the veteran component and whatyou're doing at Patriot Growth.
But before we do that, I wantto dig into the day that you
(25:35):
decided I'm doing it, I'mburning the ships, I'm firing
the man.
Maybe it's a conversation withyour wife, maybe it was with a
mentor, but like, let's, let'sgo to that day, cause I think
there's a lot of people whocontemplate that day and they
will work 40 years and neverexecute, and so talk to me about
that.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
You're exactly right,
never executing.
Um, I've had a lot of ideas,but I have a lot of URLs I own,
you know.
I've many of ideas and I I'vealways looked at it as okay.
Time, like, how much bandwidthdo I have to achieve this with
the job that I'm in, um and andcoming from the startup world,
right, it's like, well, you canbootstrap for only so long,
right, but you're going to haveto go raise money Eventually.
(26:17):
This thing has to be able to.
It has to be able to, you know,pay for your your, your monthly
expenses, right, and take careof your family.
Um, so you know, the biggestthing here was starting to build
while I had a job and startingto get everything in place, um,
it just started to reemphasize.
You know, I was meant to dothis right, it was, it was
(26:39):
pushing me in the rightdirection.
You got my mindset in the rightdirection.
I was hungry, um, and I I'vealways had the initiative right.
I'm always been persistent.
I mean, that's a that is a big,a big um.
You know, kind of key factor inmy success.
But you know, there was aconversation with our wife and a
conversation with a lot of mymentors and the same thing kept
(27:00):
coming out of all theseconversations like, whatever
you're going to do, zach, you'regoing to be successful at right
, you just got to do it.
Like there's.
There's never going to be aright time.
It's kind of like theconversation you have with with
people about having kids right,you're never going to be ready,
it's just you just got to go forit.
And uh, you know that gave methe push.
My wife, you know, said I trustyou.
Um, it's a little scary tothink about, but I trust you.
(27:23):
And again, I had enough successwhere I had a nest egg to be
able to take the leap.
And for me it was like do Ihave a year's worth of income to
be able to do this?
Um, and I had everything inplace.
So that gave me really theresolve to go after it and to
not really stress out about it.
So I remember talking to my boss.
Well, you know this was thiswas actually the the boss before
(27:49):
I had another boss at the veryend, roy, who is an amazing
leader, just a great manager,awesome human being, and you
know he felt my frustration.
He'd seen what was going on.
He was kind of getting movedout as well, and you know, he
gave me all the information Ineeded of what was coming down
the pipeline and how they weregoing to reorg everything and
(28:11):
what my next mission was goingto be.
And I told him plain, plain andsimple, like I'll do it, roy,
but you know I'm getting tiredof this.
And he said you know I'mgetting tired of this as well,
zach, but this is just the wayit operates.
So when I had that conversationluckily for me, when I started
at Learfield, arnesha my HRcoordinator she also started in
(28:34):
the same kind of class as me atLearfield, so I had a good
relationship with her gave her acall and said how how can I
make this work the best for me?
And, um, you know, she was justhonestly, um, very generous
with her time and and the waythat she helped me, but helped
me basically put in a noticethat would allow me to have my
compensation package and makesure that I left the business
(28:55):
just as good in a position as Idid when I exited.
And it wasn't just you know,you're, you're done.
You know, give us your twoweeks, you'll see you later.
So, um, there was a lot ofmoving parts, but I'd say you
know, roy and Arnesha reallyhelped me, um, just make sure
the exit was smooth, seamless,and um compensated me, uh, to
(29:16):
the best of their ability andallowed me to keep health
insurance, all that sort ofstuff, for a number of months
afterwards.
So, again, right place, righttime, good network, knowing how
to communicate with the rightpeople and making sure they were
on my side.
So that was a lot about the dayand I remember when I did it it
was a breath of relief.
(29:37):
I mean, learfield, you're on theroad a lot.
You know you're at a different.
You know 174 universitiesacross.
You know North America, so SEC,acc, probably 44 schools I
believe at that time.
And you know I'm at a differentuniversity every week working
with the sales teams, cause youremember I had, I had to coach
(29:58):
and teach these individual salesreps that sold Tuscaloosa
sports properties for Alabama.
They were selling the localdeals.
I would help with the bignational deals, right, and
Alabama might be a component ofthat.
I might be Michigan as well andFSU.
So you know there was a lotgoing on there.
But you know I had to figure outhow is it going to make this
(30:19):
work the best for me and um I, Iwas just tired of being on the
road, so as soon as I made thechoice, got it all put in place,
it was a breath of fresh air.
As soon as I was kind of offthe clock with them, um allowed
me to be more present for myfamily, and that's that's been
probably one of the biggest wins, right Outside of waking up
every day fired up, because thisis kind of mine, right.
(30:43):
I'm working with partners thatare just as motivated as me.
We're going to build somethingthat has true purpose behind it.
It's going to impact the rightpeople, the core demographic
we're going after All.
That sort of stuff just gave methe energy to keep running, so
it was an awesome day.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I'll tell you what.
For anyone thinking aboutfiring the man, you should go
back and listen to that again.
There are so many good lessonshere, you know having a plan,
getting feedback from mentors,establishing a nest egg.
You know, this didn't happenovernight.
There was a plan that youexecuted on.
Uh, you know you, you talkedabout mindset.
I think that's huge andsomething that I think a lot of
(31:20):
people will blow off.
It's not something you couldlearn in a textbook, necessarily
, but it's so criticallyimportant.
And two other things asupportive spouse or partner, or
whatever that may be for you.
I've said this a couple oftimes before if there were two
(31:42):
identical twins one had an MBAand one had a supportive spouse
I would take the one with asupportive spouse.
I like it.
That is so critical and and andso, and you know the.
The last lesson here is goingout and keeping good
relationships, not not leavingthe company in a bad spot, not
giving Deborah from accountingthe middle finger, even if you
(32:05):
may want to, and so I reallylike that.
And, yeah, great lessons there.
So I want to turn the cornerand dive into the intersection
of veterans and entrepreneurshipand what you have going on at
Patriot Growth.
So let's start here.
You're working with veterans.
(32:26):
You grew up with two parents inthe military, and so what do
you think makes veteransuniquely suited to
entrepreneurship and toultimately being a business
owner?
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Grit and resilience,
their ability to learn.
You know, I think they veteransin general right, they're open
to learning, they're open tobeing coached.
When the bullets are flyingright, it's not them, you know,
standing up and being a hero.
That's when the training, youknow, really sets in Right.
And so, you know, they havetremendous integrity, they've
(33:04):
got the growth mindset, they'vegot the initiative.
You know, I think that all ofthose attributes combined, you
know, just make them perfectentrepreneurs, cause I think,
you know, as an entrepreneur,you're a chief problem solver,
right End of the day.
Right, and you got to go learnwhat you don't know and you got
to ask for help.
You got to figure out where areyour resources, like.
(33:25):
You got to find a coach.
You got to find somebody, afriend, anybody, a family member
that has done something likethis before to help you.
And it's a lot of learning anda lot of taking from that wisdom
and continually to put it inplay.
That's what I would say toanswer that question.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Absolutely,
absolutely.
Now I think that makes a lot ofsense, and you have a unique
perspective on it in that youwere raised in a family with two
veteran parents, and so now oneof the things I took note that
you said was you were in TommyBreedlove's Mastermind and when
you stood up to present, yousaid I want to acquire an
(34:04):
existing business, and I thinkthat is it's an interesting
approach.
I think a lot of people, whenthey think about going into
business for themselves, theythink about starting from
scratch, and so what influencedthat opinion of buying an
existing business with systemsand processes?
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Well, systems and
processes is like top of mind
when you when you just say itlike that, but I mean you know,
being in the in the in thestartup world, you know when you
bring in venture capital, whenyou build a board you've now
hired bosses that kind of leadyou in a direction you dilute
(34:47):
yourself in the equity side ofit.
Existing businesses, especiallythe ones that I'm constantly
looking for and our team'slooking for, they have been
profitable for a number of years, right, so they've already got
through the growing pains, youknow.
Another piece to this is, youknow, like I said, I've got a
(35:08):
lot of ideas.
I got a lot of URLs, a lot ofthings that I want to do, but
you got to.
You know I always look at it asall right, well, here's my
monthly expenses, like, how am Igoing to get it, you know, up
to that monthly expense and howquickly will it take?
When you're buying an existingbusiness, especially within the
buy boxes we're looking for,they already meet that criteria.
So, you know, I think themhaving the systems and processes
(35:29):
, them already being profitablefor a number of years and
scaling, you know it just, itmakes it a great acquisition
opportunity, especially when youcan identify, you know, holes
in the for me, the advertisingarmor of what they have.
You know what they haven't evennavigated yet right.
Why are they not using Googledisplay network or, um you know,
(35:51):
putting more money into theirsocial advertising or working
with influencers, or even NIL?
Um, again, I'm I'm alwaystrying to look for, you know,
how can I make this companybetter?
Like, I don't, I'm not justtrying to buy it and live off
the money it's putting out today.
How do I grow the business?
So I just think you knowsomething that's already
profitable.
You have the ability to take itmuch farther and scale it to a
(36:12):
bigger, a bigger degree, withoutyou know having a board of
advisors around you, leading youand telling you what they want
out of the business, becauseit's all about returns, it's all
about the exit.
You know they're trying to makemoney as well.
I just believe something that'salready built that you can take
and make better, like what atremendous opportunity and it
can pay your bills every monthand take away some of that
(36:34):
stress.
I mean that's a lot of startupsdie.
90% of them don't, you know,make it.
So you got to kind of lookthrough the lens of all that and
me just again having abackground in startups, you know
I realized you know if I wasgoing to do anything on my own
and start it from scratch, it'dbe more of a lifestyle business
and I'd want some money in thebank to be able to continue to
(36:56):
want to do it and be fired upabout it, without stressing
about the monthly expenses.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Absolutely To any of
our listeners who are debating
this right now.
There's a really good bookcalled Buy Then Build by Walker
Dybul.
He's a broker at QuietlightBrokerage in St Louis, actually,
and when I read that book itmade a real statistical case for
why you are better off buyingan existing business, and it was
all.
I'm a retired CPA, so of course, the number side of it appealed
(37:29):
to me, and just looking at thelikelihood of success is
tremendously higher when you'rebuying an established business
that has already went five yearsand nine out of your 10
competitors have died, butyou're buying the survivor, and
so I really like that.
Another point that you broughtup that has not been discussed a
(37:52):
whole lot on this podcast, butI think is super relevant, is
people will fire the man.
They will then start a company,they will accept VC funding and
then they essentially rehirethe man.
They give themselves a new bossand I, you know, I would
(38:13):
imagine, through all of thedifferent sales positions that
you had, like you experiencedthat.
You experienced the wolf at thedoor from VC, and so, yeah, I
really like that.
So you know, talking aboutbuying these businesses, what
criteria do you look for whenhelping veterans evaluate a
(38:36):
potential business to acquire.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Yeah, I mean we're
looking for businesses that are,
you know, cash flowing, youknow EBITDA wise, you know a
million to $4 million.
It's kind of our sweet spot,right.
We want to stay under the radarof the big PE firms, but we
also want to find businessesthat again, have a great track
record but can also be scaledand grown right Via acquisition
(38:58):
or, you know, adding a new SKUor, you know, going into a
different platform, you know, toadvertise.
We want the business to beprofitable year over year for a
minimum of three we love five.
Also want a seller that'smotivated to stay within the
business for at least 12 months,not 36.
And we'll, you know, leave somemeat on the bone for them via
(39:21):
equity or, you know, via equityor some way we can compensate
them to keep them in that role.
That allows us again to bringour operations team in, start
working within the business,learn the good that we want to
take from the seller and get ridof the bad.
But it also helps reallytransition that veteran into the
role as well when we can havean operations team that's
(39:41):
skilled and effective, like wehave on our team, and then be
able to pull some of thathistorical knowledge, some of
those relationships that existwithin the supply chain and you
know administratively that theseller already has.
I mean, those are beautiful,beautiful things that coincide
to create the veteran, you know,into what we want him to
ultimately become after the 60months, which is, you know, the
(40:03):
operator and owner of thatbusiness.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
I love it.
I love it.
I have never heard of a privateequity model that has
essentially created its own MBAprogram, but not you're
compensated for it and you'relearning, you're doing.
You're not learning out of atextbook, you're doing, you're,
and you're learning, you'redoing.
You're not learning out of atextbook, you're doing, you're
running an actual business.
And so what does that look likefrom a veteran standpoint?
(40:28):
You know what?
From day one through that 60month mark, what are they doing
on a day-to-day basis?
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Yeah, you said
something really cool the MBA
model, right?
So we call it the PGC PracticalMBA, right?
This is where you know ifyou're going to Harvard you're
paying hundreds of thousanddollars for that degree, then
you.
Then you have access to thenetwork.
But you're going into theworkforce or creating something
on your own, but you've got agreat network.
That's that's cool.
But what you do here is you comeinto PGC.
(40:56):
You know, typically month sixof after we've acquired the
business, we're going to pay youa six figure salary, we're
going to start you in ourmailroom and you're going to
learn underneath our operationsteam, quarter over quarter.
We're going to hand you moreresponsibility.
We're going to have some testsfor you.
Make sure that you're you'reunderstanding it and you're
(41:19):
grasping everything and able totake more responsibility on for
the next quarter.
But ultimately, what happenswithin that fifth year?
You know it's this 60 monthtrack, uh, that last year.
You know you're really workingon the business.
You're, you're, you're prettymuch operating the business
alongside our operators, um.
But you know we give you theskills to fish, right, we're not
giving you fish, um.
And the beauty I see in this isthat you know if you want to
own and operate the businessthat you're working in you.
(41:41):
If you this is that you know ifyou want to own and operate the
business that you're working inyou, if you, you know you don't
have to love what we're sellingor what we're doing, but you,
if you know the business well,um, and you're fired up about,
you know, making a milliondollars for your family, um, you
know that's the sort ofposition we put you in.
But if that's, you know, if,let's say, you know wheelchairs
aren't your jam, then you knowwe can also put you in as a
(42:04):
serial operator for morecompanies within our business or
introduce you to some of ourcorporate partners that work
with our nonprofit AdvancingLine of Veterans, get you into
UPS or Coca-Cola, things likethat.
So we're going to build a tonof skills within you and a lot
of core competencies and thengive you the ability to dictate
what does your future look likeand how can we support you.
(42:25):
So the network you know that wehave is vast and got a lot of
skilled operations team,financial literacy teams.
I mean it runs the gamut.
So if there's something youdon't know, there's a hole in
your armor in terms ofaccounting.
We've got to mastermind this inyou.
We've got an individual that'llhelp come consult with you and
(42:45):
teach you these things.
So the way I really see it,david, is you know, once you're
working within our world, ifthere's a business that you now
identify that you want to buy onyour own, then we can also hold
your hand there and walk youthrough.
You know the lending process,whether it's SBA or private
lending or raise money.
We can help you go acquire abusiness that maybe fits your
hobbies or your passions alittle bit more.
(43:06):
And again, you know how to doit because you've already been
running an operated company withan art portfolio.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Absolutely.
I love that, I really like thatmodel and to our listeners and
there are likely a lot of youthat have a business that you
would like to sell in the nextone to three years and you have
a couple options.
You can go with a strategicbuyer, you could go with an
aggregator, but what you havegoing on at PGC is different,
(43:34):
and so my final question, beforewe get into the fire round, is
two people that are consideringselling around is two people
that are considering selling?
Why does it make sense to reachout to?
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Patriot and see if
there's something there.
What makes Patriot different?
Well, it's a great question,david.
So there are a lot of thingsyou can invest within that will
give you a great return.
The beauty about PGC is thelegacy component.
Right, there are some coolcapital gains, tax-free
opportunities that we have builtwithin our world and our model
(44:14):
to make that attractive for aninvestor as well.
But this is not multifamilyinvestments.
This multifamily, you knowinvestments this isn't the stock
market.
This isn't buying land.
This isn't, you know, creatingmore veteran entrepreneurs and
owners, business owners.
There's a crazy stat out therethat at any given time, there's
(44:34):
about 6.2 million small tomedium sized businesses and they
classify that as $50 million ofrevenue and below size
businesses.
And they classify that as $50million of revenue and below the
only 5% of that 6.2 are ownedand operated by a veteran.
But those 5% of companies thatare owned and operated by a
veteran employ over 7 millionAmericans.
So where's you know?
(44:56):
Do you care about America?
Are you fired up?
You know about the Americandream Like we're creating that
and the impact you can make byhelping us?
You know, do you care aboutAmerica?
Are you fired up?
You know about the Americandream Like.
We're creating that and theimpact you can make by helping
us, you know, acquire companiesinvesting in this or for sellers
that want to, you know, have alasting legacy for their company
they actually they care aboutthe clients that they've built
up over the last 30 years orfive years we're able to take
(45:17):
that business farther, impactthe veteran community further,
employ more Americans while alsogiving great, great tax-free
returns to our investorcommunity.
So we've got a beautiful model.
There's a lot of really coolways of how we really niched
ourselves, but I would think theseller really cares about the
business going forward, makingthe most money off the
(45:39):
acquisition possible.
Because we do care about theseller when we identify a
business, we're trying to createa deep relationship with that
seller and we want to make surethat we can give them as much
money as possible in the mosttax advantageous way possible.
And that might be gettingcreative with the deal structure
.
But again, if we are going todo good by you, you're going to
(46:02):
help stay on and help ourveteran community.
Our investors can come and fusecash and make great
distributions from thosebusinesses with an awesome exit.
I think it's a cool flywheelthat, just you know, really
feeds the beast of what we'retrying to do, which is impacting
a million veteran families, youknow, in the next 10 years.
So that's the goal, that's themission and I think it resonates
(46:23):
a lot with sellers, investors,veterans and the entire
investment community.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I love it.
I love it Now, if somebody isinterested in talking to you
about selling their business orinvesting.
You had mentioned at thebeginning or before we started
recording that you guys do havea wait list right now for
investors.
But if someone's interested ineither joining that wait list
for investing or selling, what'sthe best way to get in touch?
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Yep, I would go to
patriotgrowthcapitalcom.
We do have an intake form thereand I would reach out
personally if you submit yourinformation.
But you can also find mepersonally on LinkedIn.
You know my profile is open, soplease reach out with a message
, love to share more about themission and dive into anything
(47:15):
that you're interested in.
You know I think those are twobest methods, and always email
as well, and happy to providethat.
You know, if you want to putthat in the in in the um thread
below, you know of the videopost.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Absolutely.
Yep, I will all have thewebsite linked in in, uh, in the
show notes to everybody who'sdriving.
So all right, Zach, this hasbeen a great interview.
Before we end, we havesomething called the fire round.
This is four questions we askeverybody at the end of the show
Are you ready?
Let's go All right?
What's your favorite book?
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Okay, I love books,
so I would have to say the Bible
.
Right, this is number one.
But if we're going to gooutside of that realm, the War
of Art by Steven Pressfield.
I think it's an amazing book.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Absolutely.
I second that that's a greatbook.
All right, Number two what areyour hobbies?
Speaker 3 (48:05):
Family first.
Right, I've got an amazing wife, two boys, four and six.
They're my world, it'severything that pushes me to be
the best I can be.
Golf, I love golf.
You can see the background it's, you know, I love the golf
course.
It's the one sport that I canstill play, uh with young and
old, uh individuals, and andstill compete.
(48:27):
Nobody wants to wrestle anymore, play tackle football, so I've
resorted to golf.
But music, still a passion,still writing, still recording,
um, you know, just definitely alove and know, I don't know if
it's a hobby or a need, but itfeels like a hobby to me, like
sleep, you know, with with kidsit's, it's getting better the
(48:48):
older they get, but sleep is, isnumber one right now.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Absolutely,
Absolutely.
Number three.
What is one thing you do notmiss about working for the man?
Speaker 3 (49:06):
one thing you do not
miss about working for the man
Politics, playing the corporatepolitic game man, you know it's,
the beauty about what we dotoday is we get to choose who we
work with.
We get to choose who we partnerwith, we get to choose our
investors, and I love thatbecause I can talk about our
core values.
I can, you know, talk about my,my faith, and you know, if
those things don't align, thenyou know, don't gotta we don't
(49:27):
have to work together.
Um, in the uh corporate worldit's a little different than
that.
Right, you gotta keep a lot ofthings close to your chest.
Be careful what you tell otherpeople, um, cause you never know
who's uh gunning for yourposition or doesn't, you know,
doesn't want you in that role.
Just, you know you got to weara mask.
So I'm not tired of thecorporate politic game.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, I agree with
that one.
And final question what do youthink sets apart successful
entrepreneurs from those whogive up, fail or never get
started?
Speaker 3 (50:01):
entrepreneurs from
those who give up, fail or never
get started.
Growth mindset, willing tolearn, you know, I mean, I think
that's it.
You just got to be a foreverlearner.
I mean that's probably one ofthe biggest things.
But also being fearless, and Ithink I said you know chief
problem solver, you know solvingproblems.
I think you know being fearlessand solving problems are going
to be a big part of this,because when you're responsible
(50:23):
for everything right, there's alot, there's a lot of weight
there.
It's tough to go to sleep somenights.
Right, so you got things.
You might not have followed upon things.
You wish you would have saidbetter on this call, oh, we need
to get these things doneadministratively.
Or another fire drill, whichyou know is every day you're,
you're constantly trying to putout fire.
(50:43):
So I think it's just havingthat growth mindset, the
willingness to learn, beingfearless keep put your head down
and go to work.
If you're, if you arepassionate about it, if there's
a purpose behind what you'redoing.
That should not be tough.
But you know, being anentrepreneur and out on your own
will definitely make you sitback and reevaluate.
Are you doing this for theright reason?
Because money is one componentto this.
(51:03):
We can all make money invarious ways, right, but what
are you working so hard for?
So I think a lot of those kindof variables come into play.
But being fearless and solvingproblems and continuing to learn
, that's it man.
That's what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
I love it.
I love it.
And to wrap up the show to ourlisteners if you're a longtime
listener of Firing the manpodcast, you know that last year
and the year before, I had on acouple of aggregators and their
mission was to deploy $1billion worth of capital, and if
you asked why, they would haveresponded well, because that's
(51:46):
how much we raised, and I'd likeyou to contrast that discussion
with the discussion that Zachand I just had about raising
money, using that for good, forimpacting veteran families.
I absolutely love this concept.
I am going to ask you a favor.
(52:08):
I'd love to have a couple moremembers of your team on to learn
more about this, but this isthe future of private equity and
it's something I can get onboard with.
Democrat or Republican, wesupport our veterans here in the
US and that's something we allcan get behind.
So, zach, this has been anabsolute pleasure and looking
forward to staying in touch.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
Thank you so much for
having me, David.
I appreciate you, brother.
Thank you.