December 24, 2024 • 49 mins
Discover the transformative journey of Fred Gleeck, an entrepreneur who turned his setbacks into stepping stones after being fired by five Fortune 500 companies. Experience his unique blend of theater and business acumen as Fred shares how these diverse skills led him to a successful career as a professional speaker and information product creator. He stresses the importance of embracing entrepreneurship early to avoid the golden handcuffs of corporate life, while candidly discussing the hurdles and triumphs that come with this bold switch.
Gain valuable insights into the art and strategy of forming equity partnerships that thrive on mutual trust and complementary skills. Fred reveals how to transition from traditional compensation models to innovative, performance-based arrangements that benefit all stakeholders. With engaging examples and role-play scenarios, he highlights the crucial steps in building resilient partnerships, from crafting simplified equity agreements to managing financial responsibilities and exit plans akin to a business prenup.
Elevate your understanding of equity-based compensation through Fred’s 90 Day Accelerator program, designed to help clients secure meaningful equity deals. Tune in as we discuss his microbook, "Don't Scale," which advocates for achieving more with fewer clients and less stress. Fred also shares reflections on his entrepreneurial path and newfound passion for poker, offering practical advice and personal insights for listeners eager to 'fire the man' and redefine their career paths.
How to connect with fred?
Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Dynamic-Equity-Integration-Coaches-Consultants-ebook/dp/B0CQ489WRL
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fredgleeck/ Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/fred.gleeck
Website: https://www.fredgleeck.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income streams in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts serialentrepreneurs David Shomer and
(00:20):
Ken Wilson.
Entrepreneurs David Shomer andKen Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast.
Today we're excited to welcomeFred Gleek, a trailblazer in
information, marketing andentrepreneurial partnerships.
Born in Japan and raised in thePhilippines as a diplomat's son
, fred's early path includedbecoming the country's best
golfer and later navigating acorporate career where he was
(00:47):
then fired by five Fortune 500companies, which made it clear
entrepreneurship was his calling.
For 20 years, fred thrived as aprofessional speaker and info
product creator, but grewfrustrated as few implemented
his teachings.
In 2009, he shifted to apartnership model, co-founding
(01:08):
Dynamic Equity with voiceoverartist Bill DeWeese.
Since then, brett hasexclusively partnered with
entrepreneurs, sharing in boththe work and the rewards.
Brett is the author of DynamicEquity, integration and Don't
Scale and joins us today toshare his journey, insights and
(01:28):
why partnerships can be the keyto entrepreneurial success.
Brett, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, thank you very much and thanks for the
introduction.
I might say that, given thename of this podcast is Firing
the man.
In fact, the man fired me manytimes.
In fact, the man fired me manytimes.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So why don't we start there?
So you've had a reallyfascinating path, you know,
being a golfer in thePhilippines to being fired.
So how did all of thoseexperiences shape your
entrepreneurial journey?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, it's a good question.
And what happened was thatright out of high school, going
into college, so my golfingcareer kind of ended my junior
year of high school as I got tobe the best golfer in the
Philippines and because I'dgotten to the pinnacle in that
sport in that country.
First off I thought I was kindof hot, you know what.
But I came to the United Statesand no, not so much.
(02:17):
So golfing and playing golf fora living was, although a dream
early on, was quickly dissolvedinto an impossibility,
especially when I started schoolat Wake Forest, transferred to
University of Florida, but atWake Forest, where Arnold Palmer
and some of the top golfers inthe world have gone, I realized
no chance.
(02:38):
But what happened was when Ifirst started college, I told my
dad that I was going to bemajoring, wanted to major in
theater, and he goes well,that's nice.
I don't know how you're goingto pay for that.
So instead my parents offeredto pay for a degree in anything
business related, all the waythrough a master's degree.
So I hopped on that gravy trainand just said, okay, let's do
(02:59):
this.
But what happened is, right outof getting, right out right
after, after getting in gradschool I read a book called Put
your Money when your Mouth Is bya guy named Robert Anthony, and
he wrote this book talkingabout how you can make a living
as a professional speaker and Ithought to myself wait a second.
This kind of combines my loveof doing anything theater or
(03:23):
acting related with a businessbackground, so what I started
doing was a lot of seminars.
I refer to that as businesstheater.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Very nice, very nice.
So what was you know aslisteners of the show who maybe
have the goal of firing the manbut have not done it yet?
What was one of the biggestmindset shifts that you had when
transitioning from thecorporate world to being
self-employed?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, I think that my realization was that, first off
, I hadn't like a lot of myfriends that I went to grad
school with.
I got a master's ininternational business for what
that's worth and it's basicallyworth nothing in the
entrepreneurial field but what Irealized was that the further
along you get in the corporategame, the more money you start
(04:11):
to make, the more difficult itis to extricate yourself from
the man.
And therefore I realized thatif I was going to do something,
I should do it sooner ratherthan later, because by the time
you know, some of my friends at,you know, 10, 15 years in were
making a couple hundred thousand, quarter of a million dollars a
(04:31):
year, and I realized that if Igot to that point, it would be
very difficult to get out.
So my mindset was do I likedoing this?
And the answer was hell, no.
Do I want to get out?
Yes, when should I get out?
Soon as possible.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Very nice, very nice, and that's something that I
think a lot of people need tohear.
That, and the golden handcuffswe've talked about that a little
bit on the show and you know,for people that don't seem to
have anything to lose, that'sthe perfect time.
That don't seem to haveanything to lose, that's the
perfect time.
And so waiting until you have afamily and a mortgage and car
(05:12):
payments is not the time, butnot that you can't do it.
Then you know as well.
But I really like that mindsetand approach to that.
So we met a couple of weeks agoand you and I had a great
conversation about the dynamicequity model, and that's what
we're going to focus on ourdiscussion today.
(05:32):
So why don't we start with?
What is it?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Okay, let me give you the origin.
So I was doing, you know,initially, early on, I did a lot
of speaking, seminars and stufflike that.
When I do that either my ownevents or somebody else's I
would sell a package ofinformation showing people how
to do whatever.
You know, my model, which backthen was how to create and sell
information products.
Then what happened was, Irealized well, I, I, I, over
(06:01):
time, I realized that the peoplethat I sold these packages to,
they made me a bunch of money,but very, very few people
implemented anything.
So I switched up my model in2009, December, and I switched
the model up and started doingthese one-week boot camps at my
house in Las Vegas.
(06:22):
I would have people and I wouldbunk them six at a time in my
house.
They'd be two to a room, I'dhave the master bedroom and we'd
feed them and train them on mysystem and they'd give me a
bunch of money for that event.
It was a week long and my goalof that was to circumvent and
(06:42):
not have the same results ofjust selling people a package.
My goal was to have them reallydo something with the material
and again, I was delusionalthinking that that one week,
giving them all the tools wouldbe enough, and the answer was
they still did absolutelynothing.
So about three years into thatventure, I had a guy show up in
(07:02):
my event for one of thesebootcamps December of 2009, I
believe it was and he was avoiceover artist and it was kind
of there's another side storyon that, but it's not really
where they'd call that excitingbut what happened was when Bill
Dewey's voiceover artist showedup, he was getting a lot of
questions from people saying tohim hey, you know, how do I get
(07:27):
started in this business?
Can you show me what to do?
And he found me because at thatpoint in time, I was number one
in Google for the keywordsinformation marketing and
information products, and so hecame to my event, paid me money,
but by the end of the event Irealized that, rather than
sending him out on his own tofend for himself, we got along
(07:48):
really, really well and Ithought this might make for a
kind of a cool partnership.
And that's where the wholeconcept of dynamic equity
originated, because I drew up avery simple one page agreement,
which is what I recommend peopledo in these kinds of situations
.
People do in these kinds ofsituations and we started a
venture which is still going onand we built the single largest
voiceover training company inthe world and the largest
(08:10):
YouTube channel for the topic ofvoiceover work.
So that's the origins of howthis started.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
That's very, very interesting and I'm glad that
you started with the originstory and so you know whether it
be an agency or a serviceprovider.
It seems like flat fee tends tobe kind of the model, the model
that everybody goes to, and soas we started talking about this
, it was really interesting tome.
It was something I had neverreally thought about, to be
(08:39):
honest, and so you know when youwere, say, talking to Mr
DeWeese or in other partnerships, that you've done, what are you
looking for?
What are you looking for in apartner?
What makes a good?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
partner?
I'll answer that question, butfirst I'd like to tell you that
when people think about fees,when they do coaching and
consulting or whatever kind ofwork, it's usually divided up
into two possibilities flat fees, hourly or monthly, or some
people get a little bit moresophisticated and do revenue
sharing.
What I'm talking about isequity and not revenue sharing.
(09:15):
Revenue sharing is a temporarypiece of the pie.
Mine is a permanent, foreverpiece of the pie.
That means that if I get hit bya bus tomorrow, even my kids
will continue to get paid fromthe deals that I do.
Now to go back to your originalquestion, which I've now
forgotten, let's cover that.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, so when you're looking for a partner, what
qualities are you looking forthat makes you think that they
would be a good person to havethis long-term venture with?
Speaker 3 (09:48):
And in the supplemental material that I
want all of the people listeningor watching this podcast to
have, I have a little chart anda graph and in that chart and
graph that I have, it's anine-step process.
One of the things, one of thesteps, I believe it's let me
just see here it is step numberfour, which is partner roles,
(10:09):
and with that you have to bethinking about the fact that
there are.
I always think of people andrelationships business-wise as
having two components.
Number one is do ourpersonalities mesh well?
Do we have, you know, two typeA's not a formula for good
results generally and thepersonality side is something
(10:33):
you have to consider.
But you also have to considerthe skill side.
So we've got talents and skillsas human beings and you and I
will probably have, hopefully,very different skills if we're
going to partner effectivelytogether and hopefully have
different personality types toalso partner well together.
So I look at this as having twomajor components the
personality side and the skillside.
(10:53):
What we're looking for iscomplementary and not
coincidence skills andpersonality traits.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Very nice, very nice, and I think that's really good
advice in picking a partner inreally anything, and so I really
like that response.
So, you know, let's talk aboutwhen you approach a potential
partner.
How do you structure thatinitial conversation about
equity without making it feeltransactional?
(11:20):
Transactional?
And what I want to get to hereis you know, oftentimes
entrepreneurs feel like theircompany's their baby, and to
give away a portion of your babyseems like it inflict pain or
it may be maybe an awkwardconversation, and so how do you
approach those conversationsright off the bat?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Okay.
So I'm going to use youranalogy of the baby to
illustrate how this would work.
So let's say, for example, andyou have kids as well, as I
recall, right?
Yep, okay.
So let's say that in you know,in the process of raising your
kids, you've got a good buddy ofyours who is really really good
at a skill that one of yourchildren wants to know.
(12:04):
He's an amazing archer, let'ssay he shoots.
You know arrows and bows andarrows and whatever, and one of
your kids is really intolearning about that.
And so what you do because youtrust him and you like him is
you let him mentor your child inthe archery field.
So in a way, you're allowinghim to become in some ways, a
(12:26):
little bit of an equity partnerin the relationship to your
children.
And so, similarly in business,when you're making the decision
to decide to give your baby atleast partially away and I
always tell people you shouldlook for some kind of a deal,
generally between 10 and 50% ofthe equity piece that you want
(12:51):
and so with your kid, you're notgoing to let that person who
does archery spend every wakingmoment with your child.
They're going to spend aportion of it.
Similar to equity.
There's going to be anegotiation for what percentage
amount is fair for both partiesand in terms of how youortion it
.
Similar to equity.
There's going to be anegotiation for what percentage
amount is fair for both partiesand in terms of how you approach
it.
I would never start eventalking about this as an equity
(13:14):
deal until I get to know theperson first.
Going back to our earlierconversation with regards to a
mesh of both personality andskills, because if we start the
equity conversation before weunderstand whether we have a
good match in that area, it'scompletely nonsensical.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Very nice.
Very nice I'm glad you broughtthat up is laying the foundation
for conversation and not kindof cold pitching this.
And so let's play this out.
Let's do a little role play.
So assume I say I've got a petsupply company and you're an
agency and you can pick whatthat agency does.
But you know you've got aservice to sell me or a service
(13:53):
to offer me and I'm interested.
So how does you know?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
let's, let's go through that conversation.
Ok, so we're going to assumethat we have the personality
side and the skill side as amatch.
Correct, correct, yep?
Okay.
So the next thing I would do isI would say to you you know
what I would like to help youreally dramatically improve your
(14:18):
revenue and results.
But I want to make sure,because so many people out there
are taking money for servicesand not providing real dollar
value, coming back, because ithappens all the time chips, if
you want to call it, with adagencies, in which none of them,
after being paid fixed fees,delivered me virtually any
(14:51):
results.
It's certainly not what I'vebeen paid.
So if I were to say to you hey,you know what, isn't it kind of
stupid to be paying people forresults that they don't deliver?
And you would say, of course,yeah, yeah, of course.
So now I'm going to say to youalso David, don't you like the
(15:11):
idea of having people that youwork with yet a piece or not?
I wouldn't say it that way.
I would say don't you, david,think that it's important for
people to be compensated basedon results?
You'd say yes, and then I wouldsay well, in addition to that
being a fair deal, wouldn't itbe nice to return me and my
(15:33):
services I'm giving you, as apet supplier, a pet food pet,
whatever supplier in thee-commerce.
Wouldn't it be nice if, ratherthan me being a fixed cost, that
I become a variable cost?
Now I'm ticking into my MBAbrain here, because for me, I
(15:54):
would rather have every singleperson on my team be given
compensation based upon results.
And if every single person onmy team the given compensation
based upon results, and if everysingle person on my team was
compensated based on results,without any flat salary, I would
have zero fixed costs.
I would have only variablecosts.
And to me, that is the key tounderstanding my process, which
(16:16):
is and I've now started to putit as I have a standard little
LinkedIn response file that I goto and whenever anyone hits me
up for like, hey, I've got thisthing, you can get 5 million
clients in the next two months Igo hey, it sounds like you've
got a great thing going here.
I want to make you even moremoney than what you expected.
(16:36):
And they're like wow, what'sthis?
I go, I'm not going to pay youa dime, but I'm going to overpay
you based on results.
How do you like them, applesand they're going to go.
Oh, wait, wait, wait, no, Ihave to have some money.
And that's a really valid point.
And here's how I think of it Ifyou have only two clients,
(16:57):
you're going to have a hard timeimplementing my dynamic equity
system.
And here's why Because you can'tafford to go from flat fees to
equity yet Once you have four,five, six people in which
they're paying you hourly fees.
Now what you do is you approachthe one that you have the best
relationship with, that maybeyou have the most revenue being
(17:19):
generated by, and you say, hey,you have the most revenue being
generated by.
And you say, hey, you know,david, I've got five other
clients other than you, but Ithink I'd like to see if we can
transform our relationship froma fixed fee basis to an equity
deal.
Let me explain to you how thatmight work, because if that deal
doesn't produce revenue earlyon, I've still got four or five
(17:40):
other clients that are producingme hourly or fixed fee revenue
that I can slide with until then.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I like that, I really like that.
And you know you had mentionedapproaching existing clients,
existing flat fee clients, andyou know talk about laying a
foundation for that relationship.
You know they've already workedwith you, they're familiar with
your process, and so I reallyreally like that.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
And you know whether or not you want them over to
your house for dinner.
That is my main rule increating partnerships.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I think that's a very good and simple rule and it's
an easy, easy way to draw a linein the sand.
I really like that, and it's aneasy, easy way to draw a line
in the sand.
I really like that.
So, yeah, I may have mentionedbefore the podcast, I was
formerly a CPA and so gettinginto the numbers is something I
always really enjoy, and so whenwe're talking about equity,
(18:36):
there's you know, there's twocomponents of a business, right,
there's the monthly cash flowsthat it spits off and then the
value of the business when it'ssold.
If it is sold and and you know,assuming that you're providing
an awesome service this companyis going to grow really, really
fast, and I've experienced thismyself.
Where I grew up my first company, we grew by 100 to 200% three
(19:00):
years in a row.
Most people would look at thatand say you're cashflow rich,
and that is wrong.
I was cashflow poor because allof my money was tied up in
getting inventory back in stockand continuing to grow the
company.
And so what are the economicsof this look like when you do
(19:20):
have a 20% stake and you areproviding awesome services and
they are growing really fast?
But in order to support thatgrowth.
They need to put most of thatcashflow back into the business
as opposed to an equitydistribution.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Okay, well, as a CPA, you'll know the difference
between net and gross, and so mydeals are always based on the
net.
So if, for example, you and Iagree that I'm going to be
getting a 20% share, equity-wise, and if we make no money for
the first two or three years,then I get $0.
(19:56):
But it does mean going back tothe earlier example.
I still have four or fiveclients who are paying me, so
I'm kind of betting on the calmwith this one.
I'm betting that the deal thatI have with you will not pay me
money necessarily right away,but will over time.
And I'll give you the examplewith my first partner, bill
(20:17):
DeWeese.
I said to him when we firststarted.
I said here's how we're goingto do it.
You're going to have a P&L forour deal and since we're
starting from scratch and thisis what I would recommend most
people do if we're starting fromscratch, the deal is 50% of the
net, that's provided that wefeel that there's an equal
exchange of value.
(20:38):
I have knowledge, he hassubject matter knowledge and we
are going to go together if weboth agree.
And he agreed to that deal.
Now, by the way, an interestingaside here so when we agreed to
this 50-50 split of all revenue.
We hadn't thought of onescenario that came up.
So after we were going for awhile, bill says to me you know
what, when I do like one-on-onework to help people put together
(21:01):
their demos and I charge them$2,500 and I have to give you
$1,250, that's not fair.
And I said you're damn right,it's not fair.
So that for any deal in whichhe worked with less than five
(21:23):
people, that's one, two, threeor four at a time I only got 20%
of that deal and not a full 50,because it was just onerous,
that's just not cool for me toask him to spend his time
one-on-one with someone and forme to get 50% Absurd.
So we changed it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I like that.
I like that.
So let's talk about structuringthe agreements.
So you had mentioned, somewherebetween 10 and 50% is typically
where you like to land.
Is there any exercises thatyou're going through to define
what are the roles,responsibilities?
Who's doing what?
What does that conversationlook like on the front end?
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Okay.
So two parts of that that Iwant to discuss.
Number one is I have somethingthat I'm going to include in the
resource documents of thispodcast called my equity
calculator.
You answer 19 questions thereare multiple choice questions
and after you answer them itwill give you a suggested equity
range for you to ask for ofsomebody that you come in touch
(22:23):
with you know, get in touch with.
So that's, that's number one.
So first off is understandingthe percentages, but also the
partner roles within my like youknow, my bigger version of a
program that I have.
I talk about the division ofpartner roles, but I think it's
really important, before you getstarted with anyone, to have
(22:45):
like if you and I were workingtogether in a potential equity
deal.
I would say, david, do me afavor.
I don't know you that well.
Could you list as many thingsas you can think of, on both the
skills side and the personalityside, that make you good?
For example, with Bill, I amdefinitely much more type A,
(23:05):
much more aggressive, much morea lot.
Bill is type B, very chill.
Whenever we have to talk tocertain people where I may come
off a little bit too strong, hedoes that because we both know
I'm not the guy to be doing whenit comes to negotiating deals
with some vendors.
I am the guy.
So you and I.
If we were trying to figure outwhich roles each of us would
(23:27):
have, I would ask you, oranybody listening, to consider,
with their person they're goingto do an equity deal with, to
have each party list out whatare their top 10 best skills,
top 10 best elements of theirpersonality, and also do some of
the negatives as well, becausefor me, I mean I'm much less of
(23:48):
a hothead than I used to be, butI can get a little bit kind of,
you know, in your face, and soif I'm with somebody who's
similar like that, we're in deep, deep trouble.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I think that I really like that is just laying it
every.
Here's all the roles,responsibilities, things to do
and, you know, sorting those outon the front end.
That, I think, just anotherexample of really good
communication.
So so, assuming you get throughthe initial conversations, you
agree on an equity split.
Conversations you agree on anequity split, what are some like
(24:24):
legal safeguards or contractsthat you would put in place to
ensure that that equity stake issecure over time?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Well, the one thing I always like to say is, the
larger the company that you'retrying to do a deal with, the
more chances they will have alegal department.
They don't have a legaldepartment.
They have somebody on retainerthat reviews contracts and the
last thing you want to do in asituation like this is present
them with some 55 page document.
(24:51):
It'll disappear into thelawyer's office and never come
out the back end.
So everything that I do, I dowith a one page, simple
agreement.
Now, are there some downsidesto that?
Yes, but I recently had alawyer buddy of mine a number of
years back, had a lawyer buddyof mine review the contract that
(25:12):
I give to people when we dodeals and he, after he looked at
it and got back to me, he saysdo people actually sign this?
After he looked at it and gotback to me, he says do people
actually sign this?
And I go, yeah, and it's prettymuch I have again in the system
that I've created.
I do have various elements thatmust be included and I put in
the document that we're showingto people.
(25:34):
One of the things I put in thedocument was one page agreements
must have what I call theforever clause and the forever
clause is the basis of yourequity deal, which is like let's
take myself and Bill, thevoiceover artist.
I use him.
I have other clients as wellBurke was a publicity guy and
(25:55):
Bob I've got other people, buthe's the best because he's the
longest standing, easiest togive examples of other people,
but he's the best because he'sthe longest standing, easiest to
give examples of.
So, with Bill, in the eventthat I get proverbial hit by a
bus tomorrow, if my kids donothing to help him or he
(26:17):
doesn't agree to have them, theyget 10% of the net forever
going forward.
However, there's a little bit ofa wrinkle to that and in my
case it could very well happen.
My daughter, kayla, has beensitting with me while I've been
doing business since she wasseven years old.
She could do my sales calls,she could do my equity
agreements, she knows my stuffand she's very much of a techie.
(26:41):
I am not.
So in the event that I get hitby a bus tomorrow, bill would
probably contact Kayla and say,kayla, I owe you 10%.
And Kayla would respond withyes, phil, you definitely owe me
10% for doing nothing, but Ihave some skills that are better
than Fred, so at least maybe Icould provide those.
(27:01):
And instead of getting 10%,what about if I get 20%?
And that would be very fair.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I like that, I like that, the forever clause, and
I'm so glad to hear you say thatyou're avoiding those 50-page
contracts.
And if there's any lawyerslistening, I apologize, but gosh
, sometimes that legal language,I just wonder if they're
justifying their own existenceand and, and you know, I, I have
(27:28):
read contracts where you know,as someone with their master's
degree, I don't know what it's,I don't know what it means, and
and so I, I liked the you knowsimple, the simple one page, and
that's really really, reallyinteresting.
So okay, so you enter into thepartnership, you've got your
(27:52):
contract in place to protect you.
How hands-on are you in thebusiness?
And obviously this would dependon what skill you are providing
.
But what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
That's a good question and I think that the
answer is the percentage thatyou are asking for or decide on
with your partner reallydetermines your degree of
involvement.
For example, I recently, andkind of in your, in your, more
in your world than mine.
I'm more in the you know,masterclass type stuff or
whatever.
(28:25):
And and let's talk about, likee-commerce I bumped into a guy
not long ago playing poker, as amatter of fact, uh, at the
poker table, who owns a popcorncompany.
They produce both savor andsweet popcorn, Right and we
started talking.
We never came to an agreement,but we started talking about
what we might be able to dotogether and what I told him.
(28:47):
When we got to the point ofconsidering doing an agreement.
I said well, clearly, you, you,he bought the business from
someone else.
So I said you have an existingbusiness, so clearly I don't
deserve 50%.
That's absurd.
I said what about if we were totake and as an accountant,
you'll love this what about ifwe were to take the last 12, 24
(29:10):
months of revenue, whatever itis, say the last 12 months of
revenue, and use that number asa baseline, an average monthly
of that last 12 months.
And use that as a baseline,because I'm coming in there, I'm
saying as a marketingconsultant, so we're going to
use your $300,000 a month as amonthly baseline and say if, as
(29:32):
soon as it exceeds that as aresult of my marketing help, I
am going to get paid.
And so with this agreement, myagreement was a flat percentage
based on the increase that Icould bring to the popcorn
business as a result of myprimarily online marketing
skills.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I really like that.
And for the business owner, whoyou know may need some warming
up to this agreement, you knowthey've assumed the risk to up
until this point.
They've built the company,they've had the long nights, and
so I really like that puttingin a baseline hey, this is what
you've built, this is yours,everything that we build after
(30:13):
this, this is ours and this ishow much I get.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
I like that and, by the way, if that was a
multi-billion dollar companythat you were going to do that
for, rather than a littlepopcorn shop, your percentage
might be 1% or half a percentagepoint.
Let's say you were going to dothis for Texaco or pick another
huge multinational, if you werehired.
By and, by the way, as an asidestory, when I first moved to
(30:40):
New York City inspired by and bythe way, as an aside story when
I first moved to new york city,I was in a three-bedroom
apartment sharing with uh twoother two guys had the, uh, the
the big room down the hall andmyself and lisa de crane sure
shared singles, lisa de crane.
I asked her one day.
I said, lisa, what's your daddo?
(31:00):
Oh, he works for an oil company.
So sorry for the aside, but thewhole idea is, if you do
something, so when I say topeople generally, a 10 to 50%
deal is good, if you do a dealwith a major big corporation,
that percentage might be muchless than 10%.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, so you enter into the partnership, things are
going well and the businessdecides to sell, which is
exciting.
2% of businesses get to thisfinish line.
What does that look like interms of or maybe it's one of
the 98% of businesses thatdoesn't sell?
(31:42):
We've talked about how youapproach this, how you enter it,
how you maintain it.
What does the backside of thislook like?
What's the divorce element?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, yeah, and it's a good question.
So in your contract, it wouldbe good to have what happens in
the event of this scenario.
Now I can tell you, and I'msure you probably, as an
accountant, have probably seenthis a business that is being
purchased does not want to haveme as an ex-rooted stakeholder.
(32:17):
When they buy the business thatthey then have to pay, they're
not going to go for it.
So there's got to be someagreement based on the, for
example.
The easiest way to do it wouldbe to say okay, here's the deal.
We agreed that I was getting20%, picking a number out of the
year.
In the event that there is asale, I get 20% or somewhere
(32:44):
between zero and 20% at sale.
So you decide that in advance.
Certainly, your number wouldnever be greater than the
percentage equity agreement youhad decided on.
So best case scenario for youof itself, you get 20% of the
sale.
Worst case scenario is it'ssomething less than that that
you have pre-negotiated and youhave put into the sale.
(33:05):
Worst case scenario is it'ssomething less than that.
You have that you havepre-negotiated and you have put
into the contract In the eventof sale.
Here's the elements of the dealthat will be held in place so
that the purchaser of thebusiness has a way to get me out
of there, because they don'twant to have to deal with this
ongoing deal.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
I like it.
I like it it kind of, you know,sticking with his marriage
analogy.
That's kind of the prenup,right, it is the prenup, very
much so.
So I was trying to recall thequestion that I had a little bit
earlier and I want to rewindjust a little bit to.
While we're operating thebusiness as partners Anyone
that's run their own businessthey know that capital calls
(33:43):
having to put personal fundsinto the business.
For various reasons, it justtends to come with the territory
.
Whether that's there's a newopportunity that you want to
strike on, you get sued.
There are things that come upthat require capital, and so is
that something that's negotiatedon the front end?
(34:05):
Or say, a company does get suedor there is a big opportunity,
how, as the minority stakeholderpresumably, how is that handled
on capital calls?
Speaker 3 (34:18):
scenarios.
When Bill and I first startedour deal initially, we had a guy
who was, I think, at the sameevent that Bill was at, ermal
Indian dude, who was an experton SEO, and Ermal said to us hey
(34:39):
, you know what?
I could take your voiceoversite and get you top one, two or
three rankings in Google and myfees cost $15,000.
So what I have always said withmy partners is any kind of
expenditure is put on theircredit card but it goes into our
(35:02):
P&L and those dollars have tobe recovered first, especially
if it's early on until we makeour split or set up our split.
So say, for example, in thatcase and we literally did this
with him within a month ofstarting, so we did it a month
into starting $15,000 put into aP&L, $15,000 put into a P&L.
(35:27):
So for the first few months ofthis venture I received
absolutely $0 because Bill hadto be paid back on the $15,000
he gave to Ermal to get the SEOthing going.
So in my case this is oneexample which the credit card or
the resources or the funding inmy case, always comes from the
partner.
Another thing you'll find kindof amusing is the fact that in
(35:48):
my agreement the partner alwaystakes on all the accounting and
the distribution of funds role,for two reasons.
Number one I hate doing thatcrap.
Uh, I just don't.
You might be good, I'm justawful at it.
I have terrible records.
Haven't balanced checkbook inmy life, just don't know what
(36:09):
that would entail.
And so I make the partner.
One of the things they do is totake care of that.
But the other thing that itdoes is this if my arrangement
with you is you collect all themoney at the end of the month
and this is how my contractreads At the end of the month I
get 50% of the net paid withinfive days of the end of the
(36:31):
month for the previous month.
So by the 5th of December I getpaid my net amount from
November.
Now what does that also do?
What other benefit does thatprovide?
I can never be accused offinancial impropriety.
The monies are not coming intome and I'm not dispersing them.
So hopefully I've chosen mypartners carefully, but I can
(36:55):
never be accused of anyfinancial shenanigans.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I like that.
I really really like that youbrought up.
You know we've talked a lotabout the revenue and the net
profit On the expense side ofthings.
How is that handled?
Because there are some expensesthat are clearly business
expenses, non-negotiable.
It just is what it is.
However, there are certainmeals and entertainment is a
(37:23):
great example.
You take the family to Hawaii,you go to a conference for one
day and you and your accountantdecide on how you treat that
business expense.
How do you handle those typesof discretionary items?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I've got a clause in the contract that says any
expense over $100 is discussedand agreed to.
So give you a good example, Ifound and I'm a big believer in
paying as I sell a program.
One of the programs I sell ismy 90-day accelerator and I tell
people you know here's how todo what I do and jump on sales
(38:02):
calls with them and close deals.
To do what I do and jump onsales calls with them and close
deals.
But with Bill we found aprogram after we'd been going
for a while.
So we're pulling in some goodrevenue.
Cost 20 grand, and so luckily,he's kind of like me in this
area in that he's a little bitof a risk taker and I said you
know, I really think this mighthelp dramatically increase
revenue.
(38:23):
He said it's 20 grand, he goes20 grand, I go yeah, I'll take a
look at it.
By the time he looked at it forabout 15, 20, he said okay,
fine, so that's going to go onhis card.
But our decision as to whetheror not to do something was
dictated by the initial contract, which said any expense over a
hundred dollars must be agreedto by both parties.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
I like it.
I like it.
And what a perfect safeguard toput into place on the front end
of the agreement to playdefense against those types of
scenarios.
So you know this conversationand to our listeners, this
conversation may be interpretedas great advice for agency
owners or service providers.
(39:04):
But I want to.
But I want to look at thisthrough the opposite lens.
For the entrepreneur thatapproaches the agency that has
great results, has great clients.
You've heard really good thingsabout it.
They quote you a monthly fee of20 grand a month.
You know it's going to helpyour business, but you don't
have 20 grand a month to coughup.
(39:26):
So let's talk about this alittle bit from the
entrepreneur's perspective.
In terms of making this pitch,you know what advice would you
give to?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
them?
Good question.
I think that this goes back towhat I now do with all the
people on LinkedIn who hit me upfor services in which they say
I'm the greatest at X, y or Z.
So if you're an entrepreneurand you're dealing with an
agency that, say, wants tocharge you a large flat fee
monthly for your services, whatyou say is you know what?
(39:58):
I would like to pay you evenmore than that amount.
I believe that you're reallygood at what you do, but as I'm
going back to a Ronald Reaganline trust but verify.
So the whole idea here is ifyou're as good as you are and my
(40:21):
product is as good as I know itto be, then why don't we
structure this?
And you have two ways to go.
My goal would be to try and doa complete percentage split with
no dollars up front.
If they say to me in exchangewell, you know what I like the
(40:42):
idea of having an upside, but weneed to pay certain expenses
that are fixed regardless, Isaid okay, talk to me about that
, how much would they be?
And we come up with it's fivegrand.
So rather than giving them the20 grand, let me give you five
grand a month plus a piece ofthe action.
(41:02):
Now I would then add to thatclause once I prove to you that
we've got a good deal going andthat would not be a number of
months of working together, thatwould be a volume deal.
So as soon as we hit Xpercentage, that five grand goes
away and it switches to astraight percentage deal.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And yeah, it doesn'tnecessarily have to be one or
the other kind of a mixture,hybrid model to fit the scenario
that you're working with.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
My thought is, the hybrid model David is temporary.
I'm always shooting to go tothe straight percentage, but if
they won't buy that initially,I'd say okay, well, let me ride
with you, I'll pay you your fivegrand a month plus this, but
under these conditions it'llswitch.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, I like that, I really like that.
Let's do the engagement beforewe get to the altar.
So very good, very good.
Now, fred, one of the reasonsthat I really wanted to invite
you on the podcast was you'vegot a ton of experience with
this and you work with clientsthat are wanting to get into
this equity-based compensation.
(42:12):
So what types of clients do youwork with?
And if someone were to get intouch with you, what types of
things could they expect?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Yeah, and I mean the thing I offer now is what
happened was after seeing andI've created now a lot of
different partnerships, many ofwhich are ongoing, but in the
last six to nine months, Istarted saying to myself I think
that I should be teaching thesystem that I created, this
(42:46):
thing called the 90 dayaccelerator, which is to to
teach people, to take people on,kind of as an you know they're,
I'm there, I'm, they're taking,I'm taking them on as an
apprentice, and so I work withpeople one-on-one for 90 days to
land them at least one equitydeal, and if I don't land them
an equity deal in 90 days, wekeep going for up to a year, and
if I haven't landed them anequity deal in a year, I refund
(43:07):
their money because, similar tomy philosophy for paying vendors
, people shouldn't pay me unlessI deliver results full stop.
So that's how I work, and it'svery much a one-on-one to help
them get going, and then lateron we allow the people or we
(43:28):
encourage the people to stay onwith us in a group environment
where we have kind of amastermind thing, where
everybody is helping each otherVery nice, very nice, and before
the episode you had sent me anemail with an offer.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
or are firing the main audience?
Can you talk about that offer?
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, I can, and it's ridiculous and anyone who hears
this should go for this offerbecause it's absurd.
And I have what I call becauseI've recently I bought this
guy's program, spent a bunch ofmoney with him, loved his idea.
It's the concept of a microbook.
So a microbook is basically,and even worse than that.
(44:06):
So let me explain how I didthis.
So this is my regular book,right.
However, what I did was I lovedthe idea of calling my
microbook don't scale, becauseeverybody and their brother out
there, including an old guy Iused to work with at CareerTrack
(44:26):
, vern Harnish, has got a bookon scaling.
So I'm a don't scale guy.
I want more money with lessaggravation, less clients, fewer
clients.
I just want it to be easy.
So this deal is three bucks andif three bucks is too much for
you, I put a 50% off coupon inthere that you can get it for a
(44:47):
buck 50.
So if you want to learn aboutmy process, you can do so for a
measly buck 50.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
That's outstanding and the coupon code for that is
FTM1, the number one firing theman, ftm1.
So, and we'll post a link tothat in the show notes.
Now, fred, before we break, wehave something called the Fire
Round.
It's a list of four questionsthat we ask every guest.
Are you ready for the?
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Fire Round.
What's the show called by theguy who used to do.
He did this thing for actorsInside the Actor's Studio and he
does a similar thing If youhaven't seen this.
He asked these are some.
You're going to have to lookthis up because in his fly
(45:35):
around there's some really weirdquestions, which I love.
But I want to hear what theseare, let's go Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
I'll have to check those out.
So number one what's yourfavorite book?
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Favorite book, a Prayer for Owen Meany, by John
Irving and many people inbusiness.
I had a guy say to me one timeoh, I'm in business, I don't
read fiction.
I think you're dumb and stupidif you have that answer, because
the ideas that you get fromfiction oftentimes are much
better than the best businessbook that somebody just
(46:06):
recommended.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
I like it.
I'm going to add that one to myreading list.
What are your hobbies?
Speaker 3 (46:12):
I play a lot of poker .
I just spent a bunch of moneyon a Black Friday sale or a
poker training course by BartHanson called Crush Live Poker,
and spent my $350 instead of$499.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Outstanding.
What is one thing you do notmiss about working for the man?
Speaker 3 (46:32):
I hated to have to wear a suit.
I'm sitting here right now, atleast, I have pants on, but
they're shorts.
But I just hated I would haveto ride the New York subway.
I lived in New York for manyyears and I used to ride the
subway and have to put on a suitand it was just mind numbingly
uncomfortable.
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I like it, I like it.
And the last question what doyou think sets apart successful
entrepreneurs from those whogive up, fail or never get
started?
Speaker 3 (47:03):
I think it'd be a couple of things.
Number one is a super passionfor what it is they do, that
they would do what they're doingeven if they weren't getting
paid, and the ability of peopleto admit they're wrong.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Very good, very good, brad.
This has been an outstandinginterview.
If people are interested ingetting in touch with you or
working with you, what would bethe best way?
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Best way would be just to contact me, and I
realized I didn't put it on thedocument.
Just send me an email,fredgleek F-R-E-D-G-L-E-E-C-K,
at gmailcom and in the subjectline, because I get a lot of
emails, just put fire the man.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Awesome, awesome, and we'll post links to all that in
the show notes.
Fred, want to thank you forbeing a guest and looking
forward to staying in touch,absolutely.
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income streams in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts serialentrepreneurs David Shomer and
(00:20):
Ken Wilson.
Entrepreneurs David Shomer andKen Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast.
Today we're excited to welcomeFred Gleek, a trailblazer in
information, marketing andentrepreneurial partnerships.
Born in Japan and raised in thePhilippines as a diplomat's son
, fred's early path includedbecoming the country's best
golfer and later navigating acorporate career where he was
(00:47):
then fired by five Fortune 500companies, which made it clear
entrepreneurship was his calling.
For 20 years, fred thrived as aprofessional speaker and info
product creator, but grewfrustrated as few implemented
his teachings.
In 2009, he shifted to apartnership model, co-founding
(01:08):
Dynamic Equity with voiceoverartist Bill DeWeese.
Since then, brett hasexclusively partnered with
entrepreneurs, sharing in boththe work and the rewards.
Brett is the author of DynamicEquity, integration and Don't
Scale and joins us today toshare his journey, insights and
(01:28):
why partnerships can be the keyto entrepreneurial success.
Brett, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, thank you very much and thanks for the
introduction.
I might say that, given thename of this podcast is Firing
the man.
In fact, the man fired me manytimes.
In fact, the man fired me manytimes.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So why don't we start there?
So you've had a reallyfascinating path, you know,
being a golfer in thePhilippines to being fired.
So how did all of thoseexperiences shape your
entrepreneurial journey?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, it's a good question.
And what happened was thatright out of high school, going
into college, so my golfingcareer kind of ended my junior
year of high school as I got tobe the best golfer in the
Philippines and because I'dgotten to the pinnacle in that
sport in that country.
First off I thought I was kindof hot, you know what.
But I came to the United Statesand no, not so much.
(02:17):
So golfing and playing golf fora living was, although a dream
early on, was quickly dissolvedinto an impossibility,
especially when I started schoolat Wake Forest, transferred to
University of Florida, but atWake Forest, where Arnold Palmer
and some of the top golfers inthe world have gone, I realized
no chance.
(02:38):
But what happened was when Ifirst started college, I told my
dad that I was going to bemajoring, wanted to major in
theater, and he goes well,that's nice.
I don't know how you're goingto pay for that.
So instead my parents offeredto pay for a degree in anything
business related, all the waythrough a master's degree.
So I hopped on that gravy trainand just said, okay, let's do
(02:59):
this.
But what happened is, right outof getting, right out right
after, after getting in gradschool I read a book called Put
your Money when your Mouth Is bya guy named Robert Anthony, and
he wrote this book talkingabout how you can make a living
as a professional speaker and Ithought to myself wait a second.
This kind of combines my loveof doing anything theater or
(03:23):
acting related with a businessbackground, so what I started
doing was a lot of seminars.
I refer to that as businesstheater.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Very nice, very nice.
So what was you know aslisteners of the show who maybe
have the goal of firing the manbut have not done it yet?
What was one of the biggestmindset shifts that you had when
transitioning from thecorporate world to being
self-employed?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Well, I think that my realization was that, first off
, I hadn't like a lot of myfriends that I went to grad
school with.
I got a master's ininternational business for what
that's worth and it's basicallyworth nothing in the
entrepreneurial field but what Irealized was that the further
along you get in the corporategame, the more money you start
(04:11):
to make, the more difficult itis to extricate yourself from
the man.
And therefore I realized thatif I was going to do something,
I should do it sooner ratherthan later, because by the time
you know, some of my friends at,you know, 10, 15 years in were
making a couple hundred thousand, quarter of a million dollars a
(04:31):
year, and I realized that if Igot to that point, it would be
very difficult to get out.
So my mindset was do I likedoing this?
And the answer was hell, no.
Do I want to get out?
Yes, when should I get out?
Soon as possible.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Very nice, very nice, and that's something that I
think a lot of people need tohear.
That, and the golden handcuffswe've talked about that a little
bit on the show and you know,for people that don't seem to
have anything to lose, that'sthe perfect time.
That don't seem to haveanything to lose, that's the
perfect time.
And so waiting until you have afamily and a mortgage and car
(05:12):
payments is not the time, butnot that you can't do it.
Then you know as well.
But I really like that mindsetand approach to that.
So we met a couple of weeks agoand you and I had a great
conversation about the dynamicequity model, and that's what
we're going to focus on ourdiscussion today.
(05:32):
So why don't we start with?
What is it?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Okay, let me give you the origin.
So I was doing, you know,initially, early on, I did a lot
of speaking, seminars and stufflike that.
When I do that either my ownevents or somebody else's I
would sell a package ofinformation showing people how
to do whatever.
You know, my model, which backthen was how to create and sell
information products.
Then what happened was, Irealized well, I, I, I, over
(06:01):
time, I realized that the peoplethat I sold these packages to,
they made me a bunch of money,but very, very few people
implemented anything.
So I switched up my model in2009, December, and I switched
the model up and started doingthese one-week boot camps at my
house in Las Vegas.
(06:22):
I would have people and I wouldbunk them six at a time in my
house.
They'd be two to a room, I'dhave the master bedroom and we'd
feed them and train them on mysystem and they'd give me a
bunch of money for that event.
It was a week long and my goalof that was to circumvent and
(06:42):
not have the same results ofjust selling people a package.
My goal was to have them reallydo something with the material
and again, I was delusionalthinking that that one week,
giving them all the tools wouldbe enough, and the answer was
they still did absolutelynothing.
So about three years into thatventure, I had a guy show up in
(07:02):
my event for one of thesebootcamps December of 2009, I
believe it was and he was avoiceover artist and it was kind
of there's another side storyon that, but it's not really
where they'd call that excitingbut what happened was when Bill
Dewey's voiceover artist showedup, he was getting a lot of
questions from people saying tohim hey, you know, how do I get
(07:27):
started in this business?
Can you show me what to do?
And he found me because at thatpoint in time, I was number one
in Google for the keywordsinformation marketing and
information products, and so hecame to my event, paid me money,
but by the end of the event Irealized that, rather than
sending him out on his own tofend for himself, we got along
(07:48):
really, really well and Ithought this might make for a
kind of a cool partnership.
And that's where the wholeconcept of dynamic equity
originated, because I drew up avery simple one page agreement,
which is what I recommend peopledo in these kinds of situations
.
People do in these kinds ofsituations and we started a
venture which is still going onand we built the single largest
voiceover training company inthe world and the largest
(08:10):
YouTube channel for the topic ofvoiceover work.
So that's the origins of howthis started.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
That's very, very interesting and I'm glad that
you started with the originstory and so you know whether it
be an agency or a serviceprovider.
It seems like flat fee tends tobe kind of the model, the model
that everybody goes to, and soas we started talking about this
, it was really interesting tome.
It was something I had neverreally thought about, to be
(08:39):
honest, and so you know when youwere, say, talking to Mr
DeWeese or in other partnerships, that you've done, what are you
looking for?
What are you looking for in apartner?
What makes a good?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
partner?
I'll answer that question, butfirst I'd like to tell you that
when people think about fees,when they do coaching and
consulting or whatever kind ofwork, it's usually divided up
into two possibilities flat fees, hourly or monthly, or some
people get a little bit moresophisticated and do revenue
sharing.
What I'm talking about isequity and not revenue sharing.
(09:15):
Revenue sharing is a temporarypiece of the pie.
Mine is a permanent, foreverpiece of the pie.
That means that if I get hit bya bus tomorrow, even my kids
will continue to get paid fromthe deals that I do.
Now to go back to your originalquestion, which I've now
forgotten, let's cover that.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, so when you're looking for a partner, what
qualities are you looking forthat makes you think that they
would be a good person to havethis long-term venture with?
Speaker 3 (09:48):
And in the supplemental material that I
want all of the people listeningor watching this podcast to
have, I have a little chart anda graph and in that chart and
graph that I have, it's anine-step process.
One of the things, one of thesteps, I believe it's let me
just see here it is step numberfour, which is partner roles,
(10:09):
and with that you have to bethinking about the fact that
there are.
I always think of people andrelationships business-wise as
having two components.
Number one is do ourpersonalities mesh well?
Do we have, you know, two typeA's not a formula for good
results generally and thepersonality side is something
(10:33):
you have to consider.
But you also have to considerthe skill side.
So we've got talents and skillsas human beings and you and I
will probably have, hopefully,very different skills if we're
going to partner effectivelytogether and hopefully have
different personality types toalso partner well together.
So I look at this as having twomajor components the
personality side and the skillside.
(10:53):
What we're looking for iscomplementary and not
coincidence skills andpersonality traits.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Very nice, very nice, and I think that's really good
advice in picking a partner inreally anything, and so I really
like that response.
So, you know, let's talk aboutwhen you approach a potential
partner.
How do you structure thatinitial conversation about
equity without making it feeltransactional?
(11:20):
Transactional?
And what I want to get to hereis you know, oftentimes
entrepreneurs feel like theircompany's their baby, and to
give away a portion of your babyseems like it inflict pain or
it may be maybe an awkwardconversation, and so how do you
approach those conversationsright off the bat?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Okay.
So I'm going to use youranalogy of the baby to
illustrate how this would work.
So let's say, for example, andyou have kids as well, as I
recall, right?
Yep, okay.
So let's say that in you know,in the process of raising your
kids, you've got a good buddy ofyours who is really really good
at a skill that one of yourchildren wants to know.
(12:04):
He's an amazing archer, let'ssay he shoots.
You know arrows and bows andarrows and whatever, and one of
your kids is really intolearning about that.
And so what you do because youtrust him and you like him is
you let him mentor your child inthe archery field.
So in a way, you're allowinghim to become in some ways, a
(12:26):
little bit of an equity partnerin the relationship to your
children.
And so, similarly in business,when you're making the decision
to decide to give your baby atleast partially away and I
always tell people you shouldlook for some kind of a deal,
generally between 10 and 50% ofthe equity piece that you want
(12:51):
and so with your kid, you're notgoing to let that person who
does archery spend every wakingmoment with your child.
They're going to spend aportion of it.
Similar to equity.
There's going to be anegotiation for what percentage
amount is fair for both partiesand in terms of how youortion it
.
Similar to equity.
There's going to be anegotiation for what percentage
amount is fair for both partiesand in terms of how you approach
it.
I would never start eventalking about this as an equity
(13:14):
deal until I get to know theperson first.
Going back to our earlierconversation with regards to a
mesh of both personality andskills, because if we start the
equity conversation before weunderstand whether we have a
good match in that area, it'scompletely nonsensical.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Very nice.
Very nice I'm glad you broughtthat up is laying the foundation
for conversation and not kindof cold pitching this.
And so let's play this out.
Let's do a little role play.
So assume I say I've got a petsupply company and you're an
agency and you can pick whatthat agency does.
But you know you've got aservice to sell me or a service
(13:53):
to offer me and I'm interested.
So how does you know?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
let's, let's go through that conversation.
Ok, so we're going to assumethat we have the personality
side and the skill side as amatch.
Correct, correct, yep?
Okay.
So the next thing I would do isI would say to you you know
what I would like to help youreally dramatically improve your
(14:18):
revenue and results.
But I want to make sure,because so many people out there
are taking money for servicesand not providing real dollar
value, coming back, because ithappens all the time chips, if
you want to call it, with adagencies, in which none of them,
after being paid fixed fees,delivered me virtually any
(14:51):
results.
It's certainly not what I'vebeen paid.
So if I were to say to you hey,you know what, isn't it kind of
stupid to be paying people forresults that they don't deliver?
And you would say, of course,yeah, yeah, of course.
So now I'm going to say to youalso David, don't you like the
(15:11):
idea of having people that youwork with yet a piece or not?
I wouldn't say it that way.
I would say don't you, david,think that it's important for
people to be compensated basedon results?
You'd say yes, and then I wouldsay well, in addition to that
being a fair deal, wouldn't itbe nice to return me and my
(15:33):
services I'm giving you, as apet supplier, a pet food pet,
whatever supplier in thee-commerce.
Wouldn't it be nice if, ratherthan me being a fixed cost, that
I become a variable cost?
Now I'm ticking into my MBAbrain here, because for me, I
(15:54):
would rather have every singleperson on my team be given
compensation based upon results.
And if every single person onmy team the given compensation
based upon results, and if everysingle person on my team was
compensated based on results,without any flat salary, I would
have zero fixed costs.
I would have only variablecosts.
And to me, that is the key tounderstanding my process, which
(16:16):
is and I've now started to putit as I have a standard little
LinkedIn response file that I goto and whenever anyone hits me
up for like, hey, I've got thisthing, you can get 5 million
clients in the next two months Igo hey, it sounds like you've
got a great thing going here.
I want to make you even moremoney than what you expected.
(16:36):
And they're like wow, what'sthis?
I go, I'm not going to pay youa dime, but I'm going to overpay
you based on results.
How do you like them, applesand they're going to go.
Oh, wait, wait, wait, no, Ihave to have some money.
And that's a really valid point.
And here's how I think of it Ifyou have only two clients,
(16:57):
you're going to have a hard timeimplementing my dynamic equity
system.
And here's why Because you can'tafford to go from flat fees to
equity yet Once you have four,five, six people in which
they're paying you hourly fees.
Now what you do is you approachthe one that you have the best
relationship with, that maybeyou have the most revenue being
(17:19):
generated by, and you say, hey,you have the most revenue being
generated by.
And you say, hey, you know,david, I've got five other
clients other than you, but Ithink I'd like to see if we can
transform our relationship froma fixed fee basis to an equity
deal.
Let me explain to you how thatmight work, because if that deal
doesn't produce revenue earlyon, I've still got four or five
(17:40):
other clients that are producingme hourly or fixed fee revenue
that I can slide with until then.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I like that, I really like that.
And you know you had mentionedapproaching existing clients,
existing flat fee clients, andyou know talk about laying a
foundation for that relationship.
You know they've already workedwith you, they're familiar with
your process, and so I reallyreally like that.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
And you know whether or not you want them over to
your house for dinner.
That is my main rule increating partnerships.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I think that's a very good and simple rule and it's
an easy, easy way to draw a linein the sand.
I really like that, and it's aneasy, easy way to draw a line
in the sand.
I really like that.
So, yeah, I may have mentionedbefore the podcast, I was
formerly a CPA and so gettinginto the numbers is something I
always really enjoy, and so whenwe're talking about equity,
(18:36):
there's you know, there's twocomponents of a business, right,
there's the monthly cash flowsthat it spits off and then the
value of the business when it'ssold.
If it is sold and and you know,assuming that you're providing
an awesome service this companyis going to grow really, really
fast, and I've experienced thismyself.
Where I grew up my first company, we grew by 100 to 200% three
(19:00):
years in a row.
Most people would look at thatand say you're cashflow rich,
and that is wrong.
I was cashflow poor because allof my money was tied up in
getting inventory back in stockand continuing to grow the
company.
And so what are the economicsof this look like when you do
(19:20):
have a 20% stake and you areproviding awesome services and
they are growing really fast?
But in order to support thatgrowth.
They need to put most of thatcashflow back into the business
as opposed to an equitydistribution.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Okay, well, as a CPA, you'll know the difference
between net and gross, and so mydeals are always based on the
net.
So if, for example, you and Iagree that I'm going to be
getting a 20% share, equity-wise, and if we make no money for
the first two or three years,then I get $0.
(19:56):
But it does mean going back tothe earlier example.
I still have four or fiveclients who are paying me, so
I'm kind of betting on the calmwith this one.
I'm betting that the deal thatI have with you will not pay me
money necessarily right away,but will over time.
And I'll give you the examplewith my first partner, bill
(20:17):
DeWeese.
I said to him when we firststarted.
I said here's how we're goingto do it.
You're going to have a P&L forour deal and since we're
starting from scratch and thisis what I would recommend most
people do if we're starting fromscratch, the deal is 50% of the
net, that's provided that wefeel that there's an equal
exchange of value.
(20:38):
I have knowledge, he hassubject matter knowledge and we
are going to go together if weboth agree.
And he agreed to that deal.
Now, by the way, an interestingaside here so when we agreed to
this 50-50 split of all revenue.
We hadn't thought of onescenario that came up.
So after we were going for awhile, bill says to me you know
what, when I do like one-on-onework to help people put together
(21:01):
their demos and I charge them$2,500 and I have to give you
$1,250, that's not fair.
And I said you're damn right,it's not fair.
So that for any deal in whichhe worked with less than five
(21:23):
people, that's one, two, threeor four at a time I only got 20%
of that deal and not a full 50,because it was just onerous,
that's just not cool for me toask him to spend his time
one-on-one with someone and forme to get 50% Absurd.
So we changed it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I like that.
I like that.
So let's talk about structuringthe agreements.
So you had mentioned, somewherebetween 10 and 50% is typically
where you like to land.
Is there any exercises thatyou're going through to define
what are the roles,responsibilities?
Who's doing what?
What does that conversationlook like on the front end?
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Okay.
So two parts of that that Iwant to discuss.
Number one is I have somethingthat I'm going to include in the
resource documents of thispodcast called my equity
calculator.
You answer 19 questions thereare multiple choice questions
and after you answer them itwill give you a suggested equity
range for you to ask for ofsomebody that you come in touch
(22:23):
with you know, get in touch with.
So that's, that's number one.
So first off is understandingthe percentages, but also the
partner roles within my like youknow, my bigger version of a
program that I have.
I talk about the division ofpartner roles, but I think it's
really important, before you getstarted with anyone, to have
(22:45):
like if you and I were workingtogether in a potential equity
deal.
I would say, david, do me afavor.
I don't know you that well.
Could you list as many thingsas you can think of, on both the
skills side and the personalityside, that make you good?
For example, with Bill, I amdefinitely much more type A,
(23:05):
much more aggressive, much morea lot.
Bill is type B, very chill.
Whenever we have to talk tocertain people where I may come
off a little bit too strong, hedoes that because we both know
I'm not the guy to be doing whenit comes to negotiating deals
with some vendors.
I am the guy.
So you and I.
If we were trying to figure outwhich roles each of us would
(23:27):
have, I would ask you, oranybody listening, to consider,
with their person they're goingto do an equity deal with, to
have each party list out whatare their top 10 best skills,
top 10 best elements of theirpersonality, and also do some of
the negatives as well, becausefor me, I mean I'm much less of
(23:48):
a hothead than I used to be, butI can get a little bit kind of,
you know, in your face, and soif I'm with somebody who's
similar like that, we're in deep, deep trouble.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I think that I really like that is just laying it
every.
Here's all the roles,responsibilities, things to do
and, you know, sorting those outon the front end.
That, I think, just anotherexample of really good
communication.
So so, assuming you get throughthe initial conversations, you
agree on an equity split.
Conversations you agree on anequity split, what are some like
(24:24):
legal safeguards or contractsthat you would put in place to
ensure that that equity stake issecure over time?
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Well, the one thing I always like to say is, the
larger the company that you'retrying to do a deal with, the
more chances they will have alegal department.
They don't have a legaldepartment.
They have somebody on retainerthat reviews contracts and the
last thing you want to do in asituation like this is present
them with some 55 page document.
(24:51):
It'll disappear into thelawyer's office and never come
out the back end.
So everything that I do, I dowith a one page, simple
agreement.
Now, are there some downsidesto that?
Yes, but I recently had alawyer buddy of mine a number of
years back, had a lawyer buddyof mine review the contract that
(25:12):
I give to people when we dodeals and he, after he looked at
it and got back to me, he saysdo people actually sign this?
After he looked at it and gotback to me, he says do people
actually sign this?
And I go, yeah, and it's prettymuch I have again in the system
that I've created.
I do have various elements thatmust be included and I put in
the document that we're showingto people.
(25:34):
One of the things I put in thedocument was one page agreements
must have what I call theforever clause and the forever
clause is the basis of yourequity deal, which is like let's
take myself and Bill, thevoiceover artist.
I use him.
I have other clients as wellBurke was a publicity guy and
(25:55):
Bob I've got other people, buthe's the best because he's the
longest standing, easiest togive examples of other people,
but he's the best because he'sthe longest standing, easiest to
give examples of.
So, with Bill, in the eventthat I get proverbial hit by a
bus tomorrow, if my kids donothing to help him or he
(26:17):
doesn't agree to have them, theyget 10% of the net forever
going forward.
However, there's a little bit ofa wrinkle to that and in my
case it could very well happen.
My daughter, kayla, has beensitting with me while I've been
doing business since she wasseven years old.
She could do my sales calls,she could do my equity
agreements, she knows my stuffand she's very much of a techie.
(26:41):
I am not.
So in the event that I get hitby a bus tomorrow, bill would
probably contact Kayla and say,kayla, I owe you 10%.
And Kayla would respond withyes, phil, you definitely owe me
10% for doing nothing, but Ihave some skills that are better
than Fred, so at least maybe Icould provide those.
(27:01):
And instead of getting 10%,what about if I get 20%?
And that would be very fair.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I like that, I like that, the forever clause, and
I'm so glad to hear you say thatyou're avoiding those 50-page
contracts.
And if there's any lawyerslistening, I apologize, but gosh
, sometimes that legal language,I just wonder if they're
justifying their own existenceand and, and you know, I, I have
(27:28):
read contracts where you know,as someone with their master's
degree, I don't know what it's,I don't know what it means, and
and so I, I liked the you knowsimple, the simple one page, and
that's really really, reallyinteresting.
So okay, so you enter into thepartnership, you've got your
(27:52):
contract in place to protect you.
How hands-on are you in thebusiness?
And obviously this would dependon what skill you are providing
.
But what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (28:05):
That's a good question and I think that the
answer is the percentage thatyou are asking for or decide on
with your partner reallydetermines your degree of
involvement.
For example, I recently, andkind of in your, in your, more
in your world than mine.
I'm more in the you know,masterclass type stuff or
whatever.
(28:25):
And and let's talk about, likee-commerce I bumped into a guy
not long ago playing poker, as amatter of fact, uh, at the
poker table, who owns a popcorncompany.
They produce both savor andsweet popcorn, Right and we
started talking.
We never came to an agreement,but we started talking about
what we might be able to dotogether and what I told him.
(28:47):
When we got to the point ofconsidering doing an agreement.
I said well, clearly, you, you,he bought the business from
someone else.
So I said you have an existingbusiness, so clearly I don't
deserve 50%.
That's absurd.
I said what about if we were totake and as an accountant,
you'll love this what about ifwe were to take the last 12, 24
(29:10):
months of revenue, whatever itis, say the last 12 months of
revenue, and use that number asa baseline, an average monthly
of that last 12 months.
And use that as a baseline,because I'm coming in there, I'm
saying as a marketingconsultant, so we're going to
use your $300,000 a month as amonthly baseline and say if, as
(29:32):
soon as it exceeds that as aresult of my marketing help, I
am going to get paid.
And so with this agreement, myagreement was a flat percentage
based on the increase that Icould bring to the popcorn
business as a result of myprimarily online marketing
skills.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I really like that.
And for the business owner, whoyou know may need some warming
up to this agreement, you knowthey've assumed the risk to up
until this point.
They've built the company,they've had the long nights, and
so I really like that puttingin a baseline hey, this is what
you've built, this is yours,everything that we build after
(30:13):
this, this is ours and this ishow much I get.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
I like that and, by the way, if that was a
multi-billion dollar companythat you were going to do that
for, rather than a littlepopcorn shop, your percentage
might be 1% or half a percentagepoint.
Let's say you were going to dothis for Texaco or pick another
huge multinational, if you werehired.
By and, by the way, as an asidestory, when I first moved to
(30:40):
New York City inspired by and bythe way, as an aside story when
I first moved to new york city,I was in a three-bedroom
apartment sharing with uh twoother two guys had the, uh, the
the big room down the hall andmyself and lisa de crane sure
shared singles, lisa de crane.
I asked her one day.
I said, lisa, what's your daddo?
(31:00):
Oh, he works for an oil company.
So sorry for the aside, but thewhole idea is, if you do
something, so when I say topeople generally, a 10 to 50%
deal is good, if you do a dealwith a major big corporation,
that percentage might be muchless than 10%.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, so you enter into the partnership, things are
going well and the businessdecides to sell, which is
exciting.
2% of businesses get to thisfinish line.
What does that look like interms of or maybe it's one of
the 98% of businesses thatdoesn't sell?
(31:42):
We've talked about how youapproach this, how you enter it,
how you maintain it.
What does the backside of thislook like?
What's the divorce element?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, yeah, and it's a good question.
So in your contract, it wouldbe good to have what happens in
the event of this scenario.
Now I can tell you, and I'msure you probably, as an
accountant, have probably seenthis a business that is being
purchased does not want to haveme as an ex-rooted stakeholder.
(32:17):
When they buy the business thatthey then have to pay, they're
not going to go for it.
So there's got to be someagreement based on the, for
example.
The easiest way to do it wouldbe to say okay, here's the deal.
We agreed that I was getting20%, picking a number out of the
year.
In the event that there is asale, I get 20% or somewhere
(32:44):
between zero and 20% at sale.
So you decide that in advance.
Certainly, your number wouldnever be greater than the
percentage equity agreement youhad decided on.
So best case scenario for youof itself, you get 20% of the
sale.
Worst case scenario is it'ssomething less than that that
you have pre-negotiated and youhave put into the sale.
(33:05):
Worst case scenario is it'ssomething less than that.
You have that you havepre-negotiated and you have put
into the contract In the eventof sale.
Here's the elements of the dealthat will be held in place so
that the purchaser of thebusiness has a way to get me out
of there, because they don'twant to have to deal with this
ongoing deal.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
I like it.
I like it it kind of, you know,sticking with his marriage
analogy.
That's kind of the prenup,right, it is the prenup, very
much so.
So I was trying to recall thequestion that I had a little bit
earlier and I want to rewindjust a little bit to.
While we're operating thebusiness as partners Anyone
that's run their own businessthey know that capital calls
(33:43):
having to put personal fundsinto the business.
For various reasons, it justtends to come with the territory
.
Whether that's there's a newopportunity that you want to
strike on, you get sued.
There are things that come upthat require capital, and so is
that something that's negotiatedon the front end?
(34:05):
Or say, a company does get suedor there is a big opportunity,
how, as the minority stakeholderpresumably, how is that handled
on capital calls?
Speaker 3 (34:18):
scenarios.
When Bill and I first startedour deal initially, we had a guy
who was, I think, at the sameevent that Bill was at, ermal
Indian dude, who was an experton SEO, and Ermal said to us hey
(34:39):
, you know what?
I could take your voiceoversite and get you top one, two or
three rankings in Google and myfees cost $15,000.
So what I have always said withmy partners is any kind of
expenditure is put on theircredit card but it goes into our
(35:02):
P&L and those dollars have tobe recovered first, especially
if it's early on until we makeour split or set up our split.
So say, for example, in thatcase and we literally did this
with him within a month ofstarting, so we did it a month
into starting $15,000 put into aP&L, $15,000 put into a P&L.
(35:27):
So for the first few months ofthis venture I received
absolutely $0 because Bill hadto be paid back on the $15,000
he gave to Ermal to get the SEOthing going.
So in my case this is oneexample which the credit card or
the resources or the funding inmy case, always comes from the
partner.
Another thing you'll find kindof amusing is the fact that in
(35:48):
my agreement the partner alwaystakes on all the accounting and
the distribution of funds role,for two reasons.
Number one I hate doing thatcrap.
Uh, I just don't.
You might be good, I'm justawful at it.
I have terrible records.
Haven't balanced checkbook inmy life, just don't know what
(36:09):
that would entail.
And so I make the partner.
One of the things they do is totake care of that.
But the other thing that itdoes is this if my arrangement
with you is you collect all themoney at the end of the month
and this is how my contractreads At the end of the month I
get 50% of the net paid withinfive days of the end of the
(36:31):
month for the previous month.
So by the 5th of December I getpaid my net amount from
November.
Now what does that also do?
What other benefit does thatprovide?
I can never be accused offinancial impropriety.
The monies are not coming intome and I'm not dispersing them.
So hopefully I've chosen mypartners carefully, but I can
(36:55):
never be accused of anyfinancial shenanigans.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I like that.
I really really like that youbrought up.
You know we've talked a lotabout the revenue and the net
profit On the expense side ofthings.
How is that handled?
Because there are some expensesthat are clearly business
expenses, non-negotiable.
It just is what it is.
However, there are certainmeals and entertainment is a
(37:23):
great example.
You take the family to Hawaii,you go to a conference for one
day and you and your accountantdecide on how you treat that
business expense.
How do you handle those typesof discretionary items?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I've got a clause in the contract that says any
expense over $100 is discussedand agreed to.
So give you a good example, Ifound and I'm a big believer in
paying as I sell a program.
One of the programs I sell ismy 90-day accelerator and I tell
people you know here's how todo what I do and jump on sales
(38:02):
calls with them and close deals.
To do what I do and jump onsales calls with them and close
deals.
But with Bill we found aprogram after we'd been going
for a while.
So we're pulling in some goodrevenue.
Cost 20 grand, and so luckily,he's kind of like me in this
area in that he's a little bitof a risk taker and I said you
know, I really think this mighthelp dramatically increase
revenue.
(38:23):
He said it's 20 grand, he goes20 grand, I go yeah, I'll take a
look at it.
By the time he looked at it forabout 15, 20, he said okay,
fine, so that's going to go onhis card.
But our decision as to whetheror not to do something was
dictated by the initial contract, which said any expense over a
hundred dollars must be agreedto by both parties.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
I like it.
I like it.
And what a perfect safeguard toput into place on the front end
of the agreement to playdefense against those types of
scenarios.
So you know this conversationand to our listeners, this
conversation may be interpretedas great advice for agency
owners or service providers.
(39:04):
But I want to.
But I want to look at thisthrough the opposite lens.
For the entrepreneur thatapproaches the agency that has
great results, has great clients.
You've heard really good thingsabout it.
They quote you a monthly fee of20 grand a month.
You know it's going to helpyour business, but you don't
have 20 grand a month to coughup.
(39:26):
So let's talk about this alittle bit from the
entrepreneur's perspective.
In terms of making this pitch,you know what advice would you
give to?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
them?
Good question.
I think that this goes back towhat I now do with all the
people on LinkedIn who hit me upfor services in which they say
I'm the greatest at X, y or Z.
So if you're an entrepreneurand you're dealing with an
agency that, say, wants tocharge you a large flat fee
monthly for your services, whatyou say is you know what?
(39:58):
I would like to pay you evenmore than that amount.
I believe that you're reallygood at what you do, but as I'm
going back to a Ronald Reaganline trust but verify.
So the whole idea here is ifyou're as good as you are and my
(40:21):
product is as good as I know itto be, then why don't we
structure this?
And you have two ways to go.
My goal would be to try and doa complete percentage split with
no dollars up front.
If they say to me in exchangewell, you know what I like the
(40:42):
idea of having an upside, but weneed to pay certain expenses
that are fixed regardless, Isaid okay, talk to me about that
, how much would they be?
And we come up with it's fivegrand.
So rather than giving them the20 grand, let me give you five
grand a month plus a piece ofthe action.
(41:02):
Now I would then add to thatclause once I prove to you that
we've got a good deal going andthat would not be a number of
months of working together, thatwould be a volume deal.
So as soon as we hit Xpercentage, that five grand goes
away and it switches to astraight percentage deal.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And yeah, it doesn'tnecessarily have to be one or
the other kind of a mixture,hybrid model to fit the scenario
that you're working with.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
My thought is, the hybrid model David is temporary.
I'm always shooting to go tothe straight percentage, but if
they won't buy that initially,I'd say okay, well, let me ride
with you, I'll pay you your fivegrand a month plus this, but
under these conditions it'llswitch.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, I like that, I really like that.
Let's do the engagement beforewe get to the altar.
So very good, very good.
Now, fred, one of the reasonsthat I really wanted to invite
you on the podcast was you'vegot a ton of experience with
this and you work with clientsthat are wanting to get into
this equity-based compensation.
(42:12):
So what types of clients do youwork with?
And if someone were to get intouch with you, what types of
things could they expect?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Yeah, and I mean the thing I offer now is what
happened was after seeing andI've created now a lot of
different partnerships, many ofwhich are ongoing, but in the
last six to nine months, Istarted saying to myself I think
that I should be teaching thesystem that I created, this
(42:46):
thing called the 90 dayaccelerator, which is to to
teach people, to take people on,kind of as an you know they're,
I'm there, I'm, they're taking,I'm taking them on as an
apprentice, and so I work withpeople one-on-one for 90 days to
land them at least one equitydeal, and if I don't land them
an equity deal in 90 days, wekeep going for up to a year, and
if I haven't landed them anequity deal in a year, I refund
(43:07):
their money because, similar tomy philosophy for paying vendors
, people shouldn't pay me unlessI deliver results full stop.
So that's how I work, and it'svery much a one-on-one to help
them get going, and then lateron we allow the people or we
(43:28):
encourage the people to stay onwith us in a group environment
where we have kind of amastermind thing, where
everybody is helping each otherVery nice, very nice, and before
the episode you had sent me anemail with an offer.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
or are firing the main audience?
Can you talk about that offer?
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, I can, and it's ridiculous and anyone who hears
this should go for this offerbecause it's absurd.
And I have what I call becauseI've recently I bought this
guy's program, spent a bunch ofmoney with him, loved his idea.
It's the concept of a microbook.
So a microbook is basically,and even worse than that.
(44:06):
So let me explain how I didthis.
So this is my regular book,right.
However, what I did was I lovedthe idea of calling my
microbook don't scale, becauseeverybody and their brother out
there, including an old guy Iused to work with at CareerTrack
(44:26):
, vern Harnish, has got a bookon scaling.
So I'm a don't scale guy.
I want more money with lessaggravation, less clients, fewer
clients.
I just want it to be easy.
So this deal is three bucks andif three bucks is too much for
you, I put a 50% off coupon inthere that you can get it for a
(44:47):
buck 50.
So if you want to learn aboutmy process, you can do so for a
measly buck 50.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
That's outstanding and the coupon code for that is
FTM1, the number one firing theman, ftm1.
So, and we'll post a link tothat in the show notes.
Now, fred, before we break, wehave something called the Fire
Round.
It's a list of four questionsthat we ask every guest.
Are you ready for the?
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Fire Round.
What's the show called by theguy who used to do.
He did this thing for actorsInside the Actor's Studio and he
does a similar thing If youhaven't seen this.
He asked these are some.
You're going to have to lookthis up because in his fly
(45:35):
around there's some really weirdquestions, which I love.
But I want to hear what theseare, let's go Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
I'll have to check those out.
So number one what's yourfavorite book?
Speaker 3 (45:45):
Favorite book, a Prayer for Owen Meany, by John
Irving and many people inbusiness.
I had a guy say to me one timeoh, I'm in business, I don't
read fiction.
I think you're dumb and stupidif you have that answer, because
the ideas that you get fromfiction oftentimes are much
better than the best businessbook that somebody just
(46:06):
recommended.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
I like it.
I'm going to add that one to myreading list.
What are your hobbies?
Speaker 3 (46:12):
I play a lot of poker .
I just spent a bunch of moneyon a Black Friday sale or a
poker training course by BartHanson called Crush Live Poker,
and spent my $350 instead of$499.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Outstanding.
What is one thing you do notmiss about working for the man?
Speaker 3 (46:32):
I hated to have to wear a suit.
I'm sitting here right now, atleast, I have pants on, but
they're shorts.
But I just hated I would haveto ride the New York subway.
I lived in New York for manyyears and I used to ride the
subway and have to put on a suitand it was just mind numbingly
uncomfortable.
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I like it, I like it.
And the last question what doyou think sets apart successful
entrepreneurs from those whogive up, fail or never get
started?
Speaker 3 (47:03):
I think it'd be a couple of things.
Number one is a super passionfor what it is they do, that
they would do what they're doingeven if they weren't getting
paid, and the ability of peopleto admit they're wrong.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Very good, very good, brad.
This has been an outstandinginterview.
If people are interested ingetting in touch with you or
working with you, what would bethe best way?
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Best way would be just to contact me, and I
realized I didn't put it on thedocument.
Just send me an email,fredgleek F-R-E-D-G-L-E-E-C-K,
at gmailcom and in the subjectline, because I get a lot of
emails, just put fire the man.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Awesome, awesome, and we'll post links to all that in
the show notes.
Fred, want to thank you forbeing a guest and looking
forward to staying in touch,absolutely.
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