November 4, 2025 • 37 mins
What happens when you sell your company, then buy it back to take it private again? We sit down with John Roman, CEO of Battle Brands, to unpack the bold moves behind Battle Box’s rise—from a Facebook-fueled launch to an eight-figure portfolio, a high-profile acquisition, and a decisive buyback that reset the roadmap on his terms.
John walks us through the early grind, the moment he left a comfortable corporate path, and the hard choices that unlocked growth: firing a non-performing partner, recruiting a top creator in-house, and making content the engine rather than a side project. We dig into why human storytelling beats hard selling, how raw behind-the-scenes moments build trust, and why community is the most defensible moat in e-commerce. If you’re aiming to reduce churn and raise LTV, you’ll hear how reframing “subscription” as “membership” unlocks recurring revenue with real perks, belonging, and out-of-box value that customers actually feel.
Then we go deep on live shopping. After years of hype, John explains why the U.S. market is finally ready, how Whatnot differs from doomscrolling on TikTok, and what it takes to scale from a 10-hour test to 45 hours of weekly programming with multiple hosts and show runners. The playbook is fast, vertical, and emotionally driven—short attention spans, quick decisions, and high intent. We connect the dots between creator-led content, membership benefits, retention strategy, and live shopping as an always-on touchpoint that turns fans into customers and customers into advocates.
If you’re building an e-commerce brand, this conversation delivers practical ideas on content strategy, community building, membership design, retention levers, and the live commerce stack. Subscribe, share this with a founder who needs a push, and leave a review with the one tactic you’ll test next.
Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call. https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man Podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income stream in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts, serialentrepreneurs, David Schomer and
(01:29):
Ken Wilson.
SPEAKER_03 (01:31):
Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man podcast.
Today's guest is a powerhouse inthe e-commerce and subscription
world, John Roman, the CEO ofBattle Brands, the parent
company behind Battle Box, themassive outdoor gear
subscription box that became ahousehold name after landing its
own Netflix series, SouthernSurvival.
(01:55):
John's story is wild.
He helped scale the Battle Boxgroup, which also included
Carnivore Club and Wanlow,$30million subscription portfolio
before the company was acquiredin 2021.
But here's where it gets evenbetter.
Less than two years later, Johnled a group to buy Battle Box
back and take it private again.
(02:17):
Talk about betting on yourself.
He's a five-time founder withfive exits and four acquisitions
under his belt, a rare combo ofoperator and deal maker.
He's an absolute expert incontent marketing, community
building, retention, and shortform video, having cracked the
code on TikTok, Instagram Reels,and YouTube Shorts long before
(02:38):
most brands caught on.
If you want to learn about howto turn fans into customers,
reduce churn, boost AOV, andbuild an eight-figure brand
through storytelling andstrategy, you're going to love
this conversation.
Please welcome to the show, JohnRoman.
John, welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (02:57):
David, thanks for having me.
Man, I uh can I can I have thatintro?
That might be like the kindestwords I've ever heard.
It is amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (03:07):
Well, I all all publicly available and and and
uh yeah, uh absolutely,absolutely.
I could send that over to you.
But uh Yeah, so so for peoplethat have not heard of you, can
you share a little bit of yourbackground and path in the
e-commerce world?
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (03:25):
So so uh e-com is my my third career, which uh career
one to the joy of my parentsafter graduating university.
I decided I was gonna play pokerprofessionally.
So I did that for four and ahalf years.
Um TLDR was uh it was good, wasnot great.
(03:46):
I was a B plus player, um, notan A player, worked really hard
to become an A, couldn'tcouldn't do it, couldn't make
it.
Um and you look at people thatuh were still in that profession
that were um my age now.
Um and it's it's probably notthe spot I wanted to be in.
It looked like they picked up acouple other vices.
Um life had been maybe a littlebit hard.
(04:08):
So made the tough decision notnot to continue that.
Um had started dating my nowwife at at that time.
So made the decision I'm gonnajump into uh the corporate
corporate world, work work forthe man.
Um and uh I grabbed anentry-level sales job um that uh
(04:32):
typically was filled by uhrecent college grads, took that
at 26, um, and obviously had alittle bit of a chip on my
shoulder because I'm four yearsolder than five years older than
everyone else.
And um I'll work them, bothsmarter, harder, had a lot of
success in sales, quickly movedup the uh the corporate ladder.
(04:55):
Um and by the end of thatjourney, I was I was building
and training and launching salesteams, um, specifically B2B in
the in the enterprise world.
Um somehow along that path, Istarted investing in companies,
um not in a traditional like uhprivate equity or VC world, but
(05:20):
like I was building a network ofpeople.
Um and when things crossed mydesk randomly um that could use
investment, I I did that.
And and Battle Box was was oneof those um companies.
So I invested in it uh uh a weekand a half after launch.
(05:41):
And uh what I agree agreed to bea part of was a board seat and
you know five hours a month ofsome high-level advice from just
someone with uh myself havingrelatively strong business
acumen.
And it quickly, quickly, quicklychanged.
(06:02):
Um where you know I was puttingin 50 hours, 60 hours for my day
job, my corporate job, and then50, 60 hours with Battle Box 2,
and it became um just notsustainable.
You can't you can't continue.
I'm not I'm not built tocontinually put in 120-hour work
weeks.
And uh it just got to a a pointwhere I had to choose one or the
(06:27):
other.
The the startup that I wasworking for um had revenue uh
slightly north of 10 million.
And in April of 2016, so 14months after we launched Battle
Box, the run rate was lookinglike it was going to do a little
bit more than the company I wasworking for.
And it was that moment I waslike, okay, well then this I'm
(06:50):
I'm a pretty risk-adverse guy.
And I was like, okay, that'sthat's it.
Let's let's let's do this.
And uh we had just just boughtour first home three months
prior.
So my wife was super thrilled umto hear that I wanted to uh do
this after after us getting thismortgage and and living in the
(07:12):
home we live in now.
But uh she was supportive and wedid it, and the rest, the rest
is history, and you touched on alot of it.
SPEAKER_03 (07:20):
That's outstanding.
That's outstanding.
Given the name of the show,Firing the Man, I do want to dig
into that day, that aha momentwhere you said, I'm doing it.
I'm going in, I'm putting in mynotice, and I'm going with
Battle Box full-time.
Do you remember, you know, whatthat day was like, what you were
thinking?
SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
Yeah.
So um, you know, the the the theorder of of things might have
might have been a little bit offif my wife happens to listen to
this.
Um she did give me the the theblessing and the hey, let's do
uh I support you.
But um the the the the dayitself was I absolutely remember
(08:01):
so I had been brought in onlyfour months prior to this new
company.
Um so the reality of me leavinga place in four months is not in
my DNA.
I'm you know I've I had done somuch hiring and unfortunately
firing in these building thesesales roles.
Like I had ingrained justbecause I had said it so much,
(08:23):
like you gotta put two years insomewhere to really give it a a
fair shot.
Um and we were sitting here fourmonths in, I had come to the
conclusion that the company thatum great company and and I the
CEO now was the CMO then.
She came on at the same time Idid, and I I had lunch with her
(08:44):
last week.
And she's she's she has grownthe company to where it um maybe
five X it since uh the point,you know, back in 2020 2016 when
when I was there.
But the software that we wereselling was not where it needed
to be.
And I was meeting with the CEOand uh a board member.
(09:07):
The board member was the onethat had brought me in in into
the opportunity.
And I I just remember sittingthere, hey, this is uh, you
know, the software is not whereit needs to be.
We need to there's a couple wayswe get there.
One, we we make an acquisition,strategic acquisition, tuck it
in um and and and get thetechnology faster.
(09:28):
But we're talking with due diligoff offer, due diligence,
integration, like it's gonna bea year, year and a half.
Um, and then the software mightbe ready.
Or we can build it ourselves.
We're looking at two, two and ahalf years.
And um they were like, oh, okay.
Well, which one do you want todo?
Well, you brought me on to builda sales team.
(09:51):
Um and there's also a part of methat was like there's some
attractiveness um of doing oneof those, okay, trying to find a
company to buy technology-wise,or leading a team of uh and
building something, which I knownothing about.
Um so both were super outside mywheelhouse.
And there was a part of me thatwas like, okay, maybe, maybe,
(10:13):
maybe I'm gonna learn a new anew skill set.
But then I have in the back ofmy head this looming and then
they knew about Battle Boxalready.
Um I I was so excited about it Icouldn't shut up.
So they definitely knew that itexists and they knew that it was
growing rapidly, and I'm sure itwas a a general um fear that I
might I might dip out because ofit.
(10:36):
But that was just the momentwhere um I was just very honest
with them and I said, look, likeum it's not what I signed up
for.
And I think it both options areexciting.
But that's the thing about aboutthe corporate world, right?
There's a lot of asks, a lot oftaking.
Um, and by design, there's not alot of giving um from that from
(10:58):
from the co corporate overlords,right?
Um these these businesses aretypically built with uh
shareholder value being the thenumber one pillar.
And that normally comes at theexpense of the people working
working for the man.
So lots of lots of other storiesof of my corporate life, but
(11:21):
that was just the moment I couldhave um I had equity, uh phantom
equity with this opportunity,right?
If there was ever this exitevent, I was surely gonna get a
payday.
But I had actual meaningful,real, no rules equity on the
battle box side, and and andthey are they're not the same.
And uh I wanted I wanted to toto do it.
(11:45):
So I that was it.
SPEAKER_03 (11:47):
Outstanding.
Outstanding.
I I love that firing demandstory, and it seems like you you
were talking about thehundred-hour weeks.
It seems like when people youyou almost have to go through
that.
You you have to, as you'rebuilding up whatever it is on
the side as you're working yourcorporate job, there is
something about that that isalmost necessary for the
(12:10):
process.
I I was a 4 a.m.
to 7 a.m.
guy.
And then I'd go to my day job atCPA firm.
And it was something that as Ilook back on it, I'm I'm glad I
went through it.
At the time it was exhausting,but uh absolutely part of it.
So let's uh let's turn thecorner and talk about Battle
Box.
So let's talk about the theclimb up, uh growing that
(12:34):
company.
What were some of the leversthat you pulled that really led
to uh successful growth?
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (12:41):
So in the in the beginning, um can tell you that
that uh we're Facebook adexperts, but uh that would be a
lie.
Um we didn't really know what wewere doing on the Facebook side.
We obviously had enough umcritical thinking to know how to
start an ad and create an ad andadd a creative and put some copy
(13:02):
with a call to action and umhave a website, but it was uh
not not rocket science backthen.
We we launched exclusively onFacebook.
This all of our lead sources,lead source was Facebook, or if
you went to Google Analytics andlooked at traffic and source, it
was all Facebook because that'swhere we tested and and started.
(13:25):
And obviously, you know, uh it'sprobably not a not a best
practice for longevity.
We we quickly realized that anddiversified our lead sources and
and traffic.
But that's that's all we did.
Facebook by itself in that firstyear got us uh four and a half
million in revenue and um justjust just and not even a complex
(13:49):
strategy, just spinning up adsand they were working.
And um it wasn't it wasn't untilwe got into year two that we
really started diversifying.
Um when I came on board umfull-time in April of 2016, I
had two two main immediateobjectives to accomplish.
(14:11):
One, there was a fourth partnerand um they just weren't
bringing any value.
And uh they were they were justgiven this equity, but um they
weren't doing anything.
So I was elected um uh to tofigure it out, which was uh not
a not a fun thing to be chosenfor, but I had to figure out how
(14:32):
to get this fourth partner out.
Um and the result was writingthem a uh at the time very large
check relatively to to get thatequity back.
And then um the second thing,which was enjoyable, was uh
reaching out to one of ournumber one creators at the time,
(14:53):
bringing the most most traffic.
Uh this is in year two, and thatwas Brandon Curran, if you've
seen a battle box video of thebearded gentleman, and uh
reaching out to him and andgetting him to uh move him, his
wife, and his three kids down toGeorgia because the the vision
(15:13):
was we were going to lead in oncontent and it was just gonna be
about content.
Content was gonna be our top offunnel and and building a
community through the content.
And uh he saw the vision and didit.
And um that was that was thatwas that inflection point he
went from that video he wasdoing at nighttime on his own
(15:34):
once a month to how many videoscan you can you uh film, edit,
and post, farm the tableyourself.
So that that that was the gamechanger.
SPEAKER_03 (15:46):
That's outstanding.
That's outstanding.
That is on the content side ofthings, that seems to be an area
where a lot of brands get itwrong.
And I'm curious, what as acompany is thinking about their
own content and and their ownpromotion, what are some things
that they should be considering?
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
Um as silly as it is to say um when you're when
you're doing content, um I thinkthere's two elements that people
get wrong.
One, they don't show the humanelement.
Um in in today's day and age,especially in a uh this was this
was true ten years ago, but it'seven more true now.
(16:29):
People crave connection.
And in a in a post-COVID worldwhere there's so much remote
work now and human interactionis not at the same level it was
before, um, connection matters.
So I think not having that humanelement, not showing whether
it's vulnerability or or whathave you, showing the human
(16:52):
element I think is key.
The second piece uh on thethings that that I think brands
get wrong, it's not lack ofsomething, but it's the
opposite.
It's it's it's selling too hard.
It's it's trying to make itabout selling a product.
And as much as people um youknow crave connection, people
(17:15):
also don't want to be sold to.
Nobody, nobody wants to be soldto.
Whether it's uh an unsolicitedphone call or or an ad when
you're trying to do somethingelse, like yes, they work or
they wouldn't be done, but itthe vast majority of people do
not enjoy being on the other endof any of that.
SPEAKER_03 (17:38):
Absolutely.
I I agree with that.
And as I think of some of therecent products that I've I've
engaged with or brands that I'veengaged with, and I think about
their content.
It's it's raw, it's real, it'shey, here's what our warehouse
looks like, and here's where wemake the stuff.
Uh, or here's some issues thatwe're running into today.
And and it has nothing.
(17:59):
There's no sales pitch, there'sno coupon code, there's no click
the link below.
Uh it's just here's here's whatwe're doing.
And and so oh, I I I thinkthat's really, really sound
advice.
And it's interesting, you hadmentioned post-COVID era, and
there really that is aninflection point and in a lot of
different areas of people'slife.
(18:20):
But speaking to e-commercespecifically, what what are some
things you've noticed in thepost-COVID era?
Uh you know, you had you hadbrought up the point of people
craving connection.
Are there any other things, anyother strategies that you think
particularly do well in thisera?
SPEAKER_02 (18:40):
Um Yeah, so you know, you you talk about during
the the the the epidemic itself,2020-2021, um couldn't do any
wrong in e-comm, right?
Like everything worked,everything was great.
All we do is grow and sell more.
Um and then the reality of ofnot normalcy, but new normalcy
(19:05):
came into play.
And I mean, fellow um, so wedon't technically view ourselves
as a as a subscription boxbecause at this point we do so
much more.
But if I am going to categorizethis as a subscription box, um
there I have a lot of a lot ofuh friends that are their peers
that run similar, not outdoorper se, but subscription box
(19:27):
brands.
And they all saw a 30, 40, 50percent drop in in revenues as
as we saw, you know, this newnormal.
Now no one wants to look at 2020and the start of 2021 as an
anomaly, and if you do, youknow, 2022 still higher than
(19:48):
2019.
So like everything's stillmoving in the right direction.
You just had this little blip onthe radar, but the reality is
most businesses in 2020 and 2021just thought that that was gonna
be the new standard.
So they made decisions based onthat that would not have been
sustainable with 2019 or or 2022numbers.
(20:11):
So it's uh you know silverlining is it's still uh the the
business, the the spacescontinue to grow.
Um you just can't really compareit against that.
But back to your question of ofthings that things that matter,
I I think it it it honestlydepends on what you're selling,
(20:32):
right?
Where it falls in the need wantscale.
Um if it's on the want, all Iknow is is is building content
and community around it.
Um that's that's what we've hadsuccess with.
And I could I could suggestother things, but um unless I've
done them and proven them out, Idon't think it's a
recommendation.
SPEAKER_03 (20:53):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um well let let's talk a littlebit more about subscriptions.
So I uh I know and I'm includedin this, there are a lot of
people listening who havedirect-to-consumer brands, and
there is not an element ofsubscription.
There are a series of one-timepurchases.
(21:17):
And as we peek over the fence atthe subscription box and and
we're looking at our owncustomer lifetime value and the
customer lifetime value on asubscription service, it looks
nice.
And and so what are what aresome ways or what are some best
practices in putting together asubscription box program that
(21:40):
some of our listeners couldcould tack onto their existing
D2C brands?
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Yeah, so I think um it, you know, to a D2C brand
listener, I don't think itnecessarily needs to be a
subscription box that could bean element of it.
It could be it.
Um I think you need to look atit in a different lens, and
that's just a lens ofmembership, right?
So if you have a assuming youhave a product that isn't just a
thing you would buy one time andbe done.
(22:07):
Um, you know, like uh I don'tthink um, you know, someone
that's bad example, but youknow,$3,000 computer, like
someone's not gonna get amembership or a subscription to
a you might get a membership forlike, um, so now I'm I'm wrong.
You might actually get amembership because you you might
need service or added benefit.
(22:29):
But but that's to me the lens tolook it at.
So I guess everything could be amembership.
But membership, right?
To get recurring revenue.
And I think um for us, the waywe look at it is we're we're
obsessed with bringing value tothat customer outside of just
the physical product.
(22:50):
Um we as silly as it is to say,we, you know, on average, uh Pro
Plus, which is the$170 a monthwith sales tax and shipping is
$200 a month, that is our mostpopular uh product, skew.
It's 55% of our base is in thatproduct.
We don't and don't get me wrong,it at the end of the day, it a
(23:13):
certain part of it is about theitems in the box, right?
You can't get around that.
But we just make so much of itnot about that.
It's about the membership, it'sabout the community, it's about
the added values and benefitsthat you get outside of it.
Our goal is to make to providethat much value outside that
(23:34):
that outside value you couldargue would pay on its own
accord for for the the monthlycharge.
Um which is which is a lot.
So it's uh it's just a differentapproach of of of giving more
giving more than than uh youknow you're you're necessarily
charging, providing value, andit doesn't have to be in a
(23:56):
physical product manner.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (23:59):
Absolutely.
In regards to, you know, you youdocument the content, and then
you have to just decide whatplatform do I do I put this on,
or what platforms m more likely.
What are, as we sit here talkingin October of 25, where do you
see a lot of opportunity?
(24:21):
Where is we you were talkingearlier about the wild west of
Facebook ads where everyone wasa pro.
I remember those days and I Ilook back on them.
Yeah.
What where where it is thatopportunity as you sit here
today?
What what do you think?
SPEAKER_02 (24:36):
Um so every time I I so I have an absolute answer.
And I I before saying it, I wantto preface it a little bit
because I was a non-believer inthis because the US has talked
about it uh for the past tenyears, and it's it was just
(24:59):
never the case, and I thinkwe're finally at the the early
stages of it actually finallybeing a reality, and that's live
shopping.
Um live shopping to me, um, sowe launched it in in April, so
relatively uh not that long ago.
Uh it's already, we're onwhatnot as the platform.
(25:22):
We've done some testing onTikTok shop.
Uh we'll do some testing likelyon eBay coming up, and then once
Amazon rules theirs out, we'llprobably look at that too.
The the reality is it's uh, youknow, for 10 years, someone has
been saying live shopping, liveshopping, look at China, look at
China.
Um the real the China China'sdifferent, right?
(25:45):
It's a different consumer, it'sa different society, it's a
different consumer behavior,different uh consumer purchasing
um variables, I don't think willever be China.
But um even if we become afraction of what they're doing,
then it's it's all of a sudden avery, very large trillion dollar
(26:09):
in ten years space.
Uh so China will be uh liveshopping this year, they'll do
it over a trillion in inrevenue.
Um we're nowhere near that.
I think we're probably maybe 70billion this year, maybe maybe
close to 100 billion.
(26:30):
But all of the the indicatorsare there that it's it's it's
exponentially it exponentiallygrew from 2024.
And all of the things you'reseeing, you know, whatnot, for
example, was 12 employeespre-COVID.
Um they raised at a$5 billionevaluation this year and have
600 employees.
(26:50):
Like, that's a force.
And and they're just one, right?
You have eBay trying to figureout Amazon trying to figure it
out, um, ByteDance or TikTok orwhoever the new owner is going
to be trying to figure it out.
And I think this is the timethat it actually is going to
happen.
And if if I wouldn't have jumpedin in April and we wouldn't have
(27:12):
had the success we're havingthere, I don't think I'd be a
believer because I'm I'm numb toit, right?
I'm numb to hearing about it fora decade and trying stuff and it
not working.
But this is this is theopportunity.
I think it's too early.
I think you could come in tolive shopping now, figure it out
through through mistakes,learning, learning through just
(27:32):
jumping in there, and still beable to grab giant, giant land
amounts where where you couldjust dominate and and establish
yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (27:43):
Okay.
And you had mentioned what wasthe platform again that you're
using?
So we're using whatnot?
W-H-A-T-N-O-T.
Okay.
All right.
When when I think live shopping,I think of old school QVC,
somebody sta standing on astage, and I I have a hunch that
(28:04):
that is it is probably differentin in practice.
Uh what what is your liveshopping setup look like?
And in what's the is it veryformal, like scripted content?
Is it off the cuff?
Are you doing it withinfluencers?
What does it look like?
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (28:20):
So so yeah, so you know, QVC, home shopping
network, uh that whole genre ofof live selling, it it skipped
our generation.
Our generation caused it tofail, right?
Um, but you look at our parents'generation, they'd they'd watch
it and they'd order the the lampthat you can touch on.
(28:41):
And it's a thing.
Um my my wife's uh mother stillis watching it and ordering
stuff.
Um but you know, our generationdidn't find it to be the right
way to buy stuff, um, especiallywith the rise of e-commerce.
And uh this new generation, itit's gone full circle, but
(29:04):
there's a major difference,right?
And the major difference is thenew generation does not have
attention span at all, right?
Um the success of of TikTok orInstagram Reels or YouTube
Shorts validates that every day.
All they want to do is Doomscroll.
And and that's what the liveshopping is now.
It's the same format.
(29:26):
Um, whatnot is literally thesame format as Doom Scrolling on
any of those three platforms,vertical, vertical short forms.
The difference is, um, and youknow, TikTok shop the algorithm
will sneak some shopping stuffin there.
The difference is whatnot is ashopping platform.
So the the intent is muchhigher, right?
(29:48):
You go on TikTok, you're doomscrolling to be entertained, and
then you see an item and youmight buy it, but there's no um
brand loyalty there.
It's a very transactional umscenario.
While whatnot, and you know, Idon't not say whatnot is the end
all be all.
There's I'm sure some otheroptions out there, and the
(30:09):
reality is one of the bigplayers will likely figure it
out as well.
And and if they can't figure itout, they'll buy somebody that
did.
So, you know, I don't know ifwhatnot ends up being the
winner.
There's there's a world whereAmazon buys them, right?
Um But it's a much differentexperience.
It's it's vertical short form.
(30:30):
So you're not talking about aproduct for a 15-minute section
segment.
You're talking about a productpossibly for only 20 seconds.
Um, because that's what uhcurrent attention spans are.
So it's it's quick, it'sadditional products, it's no due
diligence or research uh on theproduct, you're not opening up
(30:51):
another tab and looking like youjust gotta make a decision, very
emotional purchase.
Um and this current generationis they love to make emotional
purchases.
So it's just it's just adifferent world, and it's tough
to get your your uh head aroundit.
But um to the To answer the lastpart of your question, for us,
we we didn't believe that thiswas going to be a thing because
(31:13):
we had heard about it for solong.
So in April we did a very lighttest.
Um we did 10 hours of liveselling.
We just used existing teammembers.
So Brandon, um, the thegentleman I spoke about earlier,
he did he did the shows.
Um and we had uh one of our ourmarketing coordinator was
running the back end of it, anda couple of us on the marketing
(31:35):
team were just watching andgathering these learnings and
trying to understand it.
Um fast forward to to October,um we have two full-time show
runners that all they do is runthe back end of live.
Uh we'll we're doing about 45hours of programmed content
every week.
(31:55):
Um and we have five, five hosts.
Technically four.
The fifth is coming on uh laterlater this this month.
And we're now almost at fullcapacity for the single channel.
So we're deciding what asecondary and tertiary channel
on whatnot, or or maybe it goeselsewhere looks like.
(32:17):
Um so it's it's completelychanged in our our approach
towards it has completelychanged in the uh six months
we've been doing it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:26):
I I'm glad that we went on this detour uh on live
shopping, because you're you'reabsolutely right.
It it is something that ourgeneration has kind of scoffed
at a little bit.
And and the the results are arespeaking for themselves with
what you guys are doing andscaling up.
And so this has been uh anoutstanding conversation.
(32:47):
John, I feel like we could uh wecould talk for hours, but want
to be respectful of your time.
Before we close out the show, wehave something called the fire
round.
It's four questions we askeverybody at the end of the
episode.
Are you ready?
I am.
All right.
What is your favorite book?
The Signal and the Noise.
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
What are your hobbies?
Um sports cards and travelingand food.
SPEAKER_03 (33:18):
Very nice.
What is one thing you do notmiss about working for the man?
SPEAKER_01 (33:25):
I'm I'm going to go with your uh earlier, the the
the 4 a.m.
wake up.
I used to wake up at 4 30 everyday.
I did it for for so many years.
SPEAKER_03 (33:36):
Absolutely, yeah.
You you and I agree on that onefor sure.
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
Don't don't get me wrong, I still I still wake up
at 7, but um it's it's adifferent life experience for
sure.
43 and 7 are not the same.
SPEAKER_03 (33:49):
Yeah.
Uh and final question what doyou think sets apart successful
entrepreneurs from those whogive up, fail, or never get
started?
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Oh, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
Um I think almost you almost have to have a
certain level of crazy.
Um so, you know, I'm a very riskrisk adverse person, but it's uh
I almost have to at times liketell myself, okay, like stop
(34:22):
being so risk adverse, thinkabout crazy ideas, crazy stuff.
Um just critical thinking andand a a slight um slight crazy
view of reality.
SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
So there's gotta be something wrong with you.
Uh to truly execute it.
SPEAKER_03 (34:47):
I fully agree with that.
You go to enough conferences,you there's a personality type
of entrepreneur, although I dobelieve that that word is way
overused.
I hate I hate the word.
I do too.
I do too, but but you know whatI'm talking about.
There's a personality type of,and they are a little crazy.
And I I would put myself in thatcategory, and I am a little
crazy.
(35:07):
Um, and you go to conferencesand you meet people that are a
little bit crazy, and I and Idon't I I think that's a very
good answer.
And so um well outstanding.
Great, great answer, and that'sthe first one that I've heard uh
going down that road, but I Icertainly agree with it.
So, John, if if people areinterested in in learning more
(35:27):
about Battle Box, checking outyour podcast, what's the best
way to do that?
SPEAKER_02 (35:31):
Um so uh yeah, battle box is
b-a-t-t-l-b-o-x.com.
You can just Google it or uhspell it any which way, it'll
it'll pop up.
Um podcast is uh awesomepod.comas o-m pod.
Uh again, you can just type inas o m podcast into Google and
(35:54):
it'll come right up.
And then I have a a blog calledonlinequeso.com where um uh do a
lot of building in public, um, alot of e-com talk.
Uh it's a little bit differentthan most because the the goal
there is to um not just sh notjust show the winnings, the
(36:14):
wins, but really highlight thelosses because the losses are
where you get the learnings andand how you get better and
stronger.
And I think uh social media ingeneral, uh but especially like
even LinkedIn, like you know,there's a lot of noise out
there, right?
Um and the noise is people justbragging and talking about how
(36:34):
great everything is.
Um and the signal.
Um see what I did there, Ibrought back the reference to
the book.
Um the the signal there is uh isthat everyone most people have
way more losses than they havewins.
And uh I think the losses formwho you are and how you handle
situations and how you you pushback uh towards them onward.
(36:58):
Outstanding.
SPEAKER_03 (36:59):
Outstanding.
Well, John, thank you so muchfor your time today.
And for our audience, go checkout John's podcast, check out
Battle Box and everything thathe's doing.
I'll post the links to all thatin the show notes, and we'll see
you next week.
Awesome.
Thanks, David.
Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man Podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income stream in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts, serialentrepreneurs, David Schomer and
(01:29):
Ken Wilson.
SPEAKER_03 (01:31):
Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man podcast.
Today's guest is a powerhouse inthe e-commerce and subscription
world, John Roman, the CEO ofBattle Brands, the parent
company behind Battle Box, themassive outdoor gear
subscription box that became ahousehold name after landing its
own Netflix series, SouthernSurvival.
(01:55):
John's story is wild.
He helped scale the Battle Boxgroup, which also included
Carnivore Club and Wanlow,$30million subscription portfolio
before the company was acquiredin 2021.
But here's where it gets evenbetter.
Less than two years later, Johnled a group to buy Battle Box
back and take it private again.
(02:17):
Talk about betting on yourself.
He's a five-time founder withfive exits and four acquisitions
under his belt, a rare combo ofoperator and deal maker.
He's an absolute expert incontent marketing, community
building, retention, and shortform video, having cracked the
code on TikTok, Instagram Reels,and YouTube Shorts long before
(02:38):
most brands caught on.
If you want to learn about howto turn fans into customers,
reduce churn, boost AOV, andbuild an eight-figure brand
through storytelling andstrategy, you're going to love
this conversation.
Please welcome to the show, JohnRoman.
John, welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (02:57):
David, thanks for having me.
Man, I uh can I can I have thatintro?
That might be like the kindestwords I've ever heard.
It is amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (03:07):
Well, I all all publicly available and and and
uh yeah, uh absolutely,absolutely.
I could send that over to you.
But uh Yeah, so so for peoplethat have not heard of you, can
you share a little bit of yourbackground and path in the
e-commerce world?
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (03:25):
So so uh e-com is my my third career, which uh career
one to the joy of my parentsafter graduating university.
I decided I was gonna play pokerprofessionally.
So I did that for four and ahalf years.
Um TLDR was uh it was good, wasnot great.
(03:46):
I was a B plus player, um, notan A player, worked really hard
to become an A, couldn'tcouldn't do it, couldn't make
it.
Um and you look at people thatuh were still in that profession
that were um my age now.
Um and it's it's probably notthe spot I wanted to be in.
It looked like they picked up acouple other vices.
Um life had been maybe a littlebit hard.
(04:08):
So made the tough decision notnot to continue that.
Um had started dating my nowwife at at that time.
So made the decision I'm gonnajump into uh the corporate
corporate world, work work forthe man.
Um and uh I grabbed anentry-level sales job um that uh
(04:32):
typically was filled by uhrecent college grads, took that
at 26, um, and obviously had alittle bit of a chip on my
shoulder because I'm four yearsolder than five years older than
everyone else.
And um I'll work them, bothsmarter, harder, had a lot of
success in sales, quickly movedup the uh the corporate ladder.
(04:55):
Um and by the end of thatjourney, I was I was building
and training and launching salesteams, um, specifically B2B in
the in the enterprise world.
Um somehow along that path, Istarted investing in companies,
um not in a traditional like uhprivate equity or VC world, but
(05:20):
like I was building a network ofpeople.
Um and when things crossed mydesk randomly um that could use
investment, I I did that.
And and Battle Box was was oneof those um companies.
So I invested in it uh uh a weekand a half after launch.
(05:41):
And uh what I agree agreed to bea part of was a board seat and
you know five hours a month ofsome high-level advice from just
someone with uh myself havingrelatively strong business
acumen.
And it quickly, quickly, quicklychanged.
(06:02):
Um where you know I was puttingin 50 hours, 60 hours for my day
job, my corporate job, and then50, 60 hours with Battle Box 2,
and it became um just notsustainable.
You can't you can't continue.
I'm not I'm not built tocontinually put in 120-hour work
weeks.
And uh it just got to a a pointwhere I had to choose one or the
(06:27):
other.
The the startup that I wasworking for um had revenue uh
slightly north of 10 million.
And in April of 2016, so 14months after we launched Battle
Box, the run rate was lookinglike it was going to do a little
bit more than the company I wasworking for.
And it was that moment I waslike, okay, well then this I'm
(06:50):
I'm a pretty risk-adverse guy.
And I was like, okay, that'sthat's it.
Let's let's let's do this.
And uh we had just just boughtour first home three months
prior.
So my wife was super thrilled umto hear that I wanted to uh do
this after after us getting thismortgage and and living in the
(07:12):
home we live in now.
But uh she was supportive and wedid it, and the rest, the rest
is history, and you touched on alot of it.
SPEAKER_03 (07:20):
That's outstanding.
That's outstanding.
Given the name of the show,Firing the Man, I do want to dig
into that day, that aha momentwhere you said, I'm doing it.
I'm going in, I'm putting in mynotice, and I'm going with
Battle Box full-time.
Do you remember, you know, whatthat day was like, what you were
thinking?
SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
Yeah.
So um, you know, the the the theorder of of things might have
might have been a little bit offif my wife happens to listen to
this.
Um she did give me the the theblessing and the hey, let's do
uh I support you.
But um the the the the dayitself was I absolutely remember
(08:01):
so I had been brought in onlyfour months prior to this new
company.
Um so the reality of me leavinga place in four months is not in
my DNA.
I'm you know I've I had done somuch hiring and unfortunately
firing in these building thesesales roles.
Like I had ingrained justbecause I had said it so much,
(08:23):
like you gotta put two years insomewhere to really give it a a
fair shot.
Um and we were sitting here fourmonths in, I had come to the
conclusion that the company thatum great company and and I the
CEO now was the CMO then.
She came on at the same time Idid, and I I had lunch with her
(08:44):
last week.
And she's she's she has grownthe company to where it um maybe
five X it since uh the point,you know, back in 2020 2016 when
when I was there.
But the software that we wereselling was not where it needed
to be.
And I was meeting with the CEOand uh a board member.
(09:07):
The board member was the onethat had brought me in in into
the opportunity.
And I I just remember sittingthere, hey, this is uh, you
know, the software is not whereit needs to be.
We need to there's a couple wayswe get there.
One, we we make an acquisition,strategic acquisition, tuck it
in um and and and get thetechnology faster.
(09:28):
But we're talking with due diligoff offer, due diligence,
integration, like it's gonna bea year, year and a half.
Um, and then the software mightbe ready.
Or we can build it ourselves.
We're looking at two, two and ahalf years.
And um they were like, oh, okay.
Well, which one do you want todo?
Well, you brought me on to builda sales team.
(09:51):
Um and there's also a part of methat was like there's some
attractiveness um of doing oneof those, okay, trying to find a
company to buy technology-wise,or leading a team of uh and
building something, which I knownothing about.
Um so both were super outside mywheelhouse.
And there was a part of me thatwas like, okay, maybe, maybe,
(10:13):
maybe I'm gonna learn a new anew skill set.
But then I have in the back ofmy head this looming and then
they knew about Battle Boxalready.
Um I I was so excited about it Icouldn't shut up.
So they definitely knew that itexists and they knew that it was
growing rapidly, and I'm sure itwas a a general um fear that I
might I might dip out because ofit.
(10:36):
But that was just the momentwhere um I was just very honest
with them and I said, look, likeum it's not what I signed up
for.
And I think it both options areexciting.
But that's the thing about aboutthe corporate world, right?
There's a lot of asks, a lot oftaking.
Um, and by design, there's not alot of giving um from that from
(10:58):
from the co corporate overlords,right?
Um these these businesses aretypically built with uh
shareholder value being the thenumber one pillar.
And that normally comes at theexpense of the people working
working for the man.
So lots of lots of other storiesof of my corporate life, but
(11:21):
that was just the moment I couldhave um I had equity, uh phantom
equity with this opportunity,right?
If there was ever this exitevent, I was surely gonna get a
payday.
But I had actual meaningful,real, no rules equity on the
battle box side, and and andthey are they're not the same.
And uh I wanted I wanted to toto do it.
(11:45):
So I that was it.
SPEAKER_03 (11:47):
Outstanding.
Outstanding.
I I love that firing demandstory, and it seems like you you
were talking about thehundred-hour weeks.
It seems like when people youyou almost have to go through
that.
You you have to, as you'rebuilding up whatever it is on
the side as you're working yourcorporate job, there is
something about that that isalmost necessary for the
(12:10):
process.
I I was a 4 a.m.
to 7 a.m.
guy.
And then I'd go to my day job atCPA firm.
And it was something that as Ilook back on it, I'm I'm glad I
went through it.
At the time it was exhausting,but uh absolutely part of it.
So let's uh let's turn thecorner and talk about Battle
Box.
So let's talk about the theclimb up, uh growing that
(12:34):
company.
What were some of the leversthat you pulled that really led
to uh successful growth?
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (12:41):
So in the in the beginning, um can tell you that
that uh we're Facebook adexperts, but uh that would be a
lie.
Um we didn't really know what wewere doing on the Facebook side.
We obviously had enough umcritical thinking to know how to
start an ad and create an ad andadd a creative and put some copy
(13:02):
with a call to action and umhave a website, but it was uh
not not rocket science backthen.
We we launched exclusively onFacebook.
This all of our lead sources,lead source was Facebook, or if
you went to Google Analytics andlooked at traffic and source, it
was all Facebook because that'swhere we tested and and started.
(13:25):
And obviously, you know, uh it'sprobably not a not a best
practice for longevity.
We we quickly realized that anddiversified our lead sources and
and traffic.
But that's that's all we did.
Facebook by itself in that firstyear got us uh four and a half
million in revenue and um justjust just and not even a complex
(13:49):
strategy, just spinning up adsand they were working.
And um it wasn't it wasn't untilwe got into year two that we
really started diversifying.
Um when I came on board umfull-time in April of 2016, I
had two two main immediateobjectives to accomplish.
(14:11):
One, there was a fourth partnerand um they just weren't
bringing any value.
And uh they were they were justgiven this equity, but um they
weren't doing anything.
So I was elected um uh to tofigure it out, which was uh not
a not a fun thing to be chosenfor, but I had to figure out how
(14:32):
to get this fourth partner out.
Um and the result was writingthem a uh at the time very large
check relatively to to get thatequity back.
And then um the second thing,which was enjoyable, was uh
reaching out to one of ournumber one creators at the time,
(14:53):
bringing the most most traffic.
Uh this is in year two, and thatwas Brandon Curran, if you've
seen a battle box video of thebearded gentleman, and uh
reaching out to him and andgetting him to uh move him, his
wife, and his three kids down toGeorgia because the the vision
(15:13):
was we were going to lead in oncontent and it was just gonna be
about content.
Content was gonna be our top offunnel and and building a
community through the content.
And uh he saw the vision and didit.
And um that was that was thatwas that inflection point he
went from that video he wasdoing at nighttime on his own
(15:34):
once a month to how many videoscan you can you uh film, edit,
and post, farm the tableyourself.
So that that that was the gamechanger.
SPEAKER_03 (15:46):
That's outstanding.
That's outstanding.
That is on the content side ofthings, that seems to be an area
where a lot of brands get itwrong.
And I'm curious, what as acompany is thinking about their
own content and and their ownpromotion, what are some things
that they should be considering?
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
Um as silly as it is to say um when you're when
you're doing content, um I thinkthere's two elements that people
get wrong.
One, they don't show the humanelement.
Um in in today's day and age,especially in a uh this was this
was true ten years ago, but it'seven more true now.
(16:29):
People crave connection.
And in a in a post-COVID worldwhere there's so much remote
work now and human interactionis not at the same level it was
before, um, connection matters.
So I think not having that humanelement, not showing whether
it's vulnerability or or whathave you, showing the human
(16:52):
element I think is key.
The second piece uh on thethings that that I think brands
get wrong, it's not lack ofsomething, but it's the
opposite.
It's it's it's selling too hard.
It's it's trying to make itabout selling a product.
And as much as people um youknow crave connection, people
(17:15):
also don't want to be sold to.
Nobody, nobody wants to be soldto.
Whether it's uh an unsolicitedphone call or or an ad when
you're trying to do somethingelse, like yes, they work or
they wouldn't be done, but itthe vast majority of people do
not enjoy being on the other endof any of that.
SPEAKER_03 (17:38):
Absolutely.
I I agree with that.
And as I think of some of therecent products that I've I've
engaged with or brands that I'veengaged with, and I think about
their content.
It's it's raw, it's real, it'shey, here's what our warehouse
looks like, and here's where wemake the stuff.
Uh, or here's some issues thatwe're running into today.
And and it has nothing.
(17:59):
There's no sales pitch, there'sno coupon code, there's no click
the link below.
Uh it's just here's here's whatwe're doing.
And and so oh, I I I thinkthat's really, really sound
advice.
And it's interesting, you hadmentioned post-COVID era, and
there really that is aninflection point and in a lot of
different areas of people'slife.
(18:20):
But speaking to e-commercespecifically, what what are some
things you've noticed in thepost-COVID era?
Uh you know, you had you hadbrought up the point of people
craving connection.
Are there any other things, anyother strategies that you think
particularly do well in thisera?
SPEAKER_02 (18:40):
Um Yeah, so you know, you you talk about during
the the the the epidemic itself,2020-2021, um couldn't do any
wrong in e-comm, right?
Like everything worked,everything was great.
All we do is grow and sell more.
Um and then the reality of ofnot normalcy, but new normalcy
(19:05):
came into play.
And I mean, fellow um, so wedon't technically view ourselves
as a as a subscription boxbecause at this point we do so
much more.
But if I am going to categorizethis as a subscription box, um
there I have a lot of a lot ofuh friends that are their peers
that run similar, not outdoorper se, but subscription box
(19:27):
brands.
And they all saw a 30, 40, 50percent drop in in revenues as
as we saw, you know, this newnormal.
Now no one wants to look at 2020and the start of 2021 as an
anomaly, and if you do, youknow, 2022 still higher than
(19:48):
2019.
So like everything's stillmoving in the right direction.
You just had this little blip onthe radar, but the reality is
most businesses in 2020 and 2021just thought that that was gonna
be the new standard.
So they made decisions based onthat that would not have been
sustainable with 2019 or or 2022numbers.
(20:11):
So it's uh you know silverlining is it's still uh the the
business, the the spacescontinue to grow.
Um you just can't really compareit against that.
But back to your question of ofthings that things that matter,
I I think it it it honestlydepends on what you're selling,
(20:32):
right?
Where it falls in the need wantscale.
Um if it's on the want, all Iknow is is is building content
and community around it.
Um that's that's what we've hadsuccess with.
And I could I could suggestother things, but um unless I've
done them and proven them out, Idon't think it's a
recommendation.
SPEAKER_03 (20:53):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um well let let's talk a littlebit more about subscriptions.
So I uh I know and I'm includedin this, there are a lot of
people listening who havedirect-to-consumer brands, and
there is not an element ofsubscription.
There are a series of one-timepurchases.
(21:17):
And as we peek over the fence atthe subscription box and and
we're looking at our owncustomer lifetime value and the
customer lifetime value on asubscription service, it looks
nice.
And and so what are what aresome ways or what are some best
practices in putting together asubscription box program that
(21:40):
some of our listeners couldcould tack onto their existing
D2C brands?
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Yeah, so I think um it, you know, to a D2C brand
listener, I don't think itnecessarily needs to be a
subscription box that could bean element of it.
It could be it.
Um I think you need to look atit in a different lens, and
that's just a lens ofmembership, right?
So if you have a assuming youhave a product that isn't just a
thing you would buy one time andbe done.
(22:07):
Um, you know, like uh I don'tthink um, you know, someone
that's bad example, but youknow,$3,000 computer, like
someone's not gonna get amembership or a subscription to
a you might get a membership forlike, um, so now I'm I'm wrong.
You might actually get amembership because you you might
need service or added benefit.
(22:29):
But but that's to me the lens tolook it at.
So I guess everything could be amembership.
But membership, right?
To get recurring revenue.
And I think um for us, the waywe look at it is we're we're
obsessed with bringing value tothat customer outside of just
the physical product.
(22:50):
Um we as silly as it is to say,we, you know, on average, uh Pro
Plus, which is the$170 a monthwith sales tax and shipping is
$200 a month, that is our mostpopular uh product, skew.
It's 55% of our base is in thatproduct.
We don't and don't get me wrong,it at the end of the day, it a
(23:13):
certain part of it is about theitems in the box, right?
You can't get around that.
But we just make so much of itnot about that.
It's about the membership, it'sabout the community, it's about
the added values and benefitsthat you get outside of it.
Our goal is to make to providethat much value outside that
(23:34):
that outside value you couldargue would pay on its own
accord for for the the monthlycharge.
Um which is which is a lot.
So it's uh it's just a differentapproach of of of giving more
giving more than than uh youknow you're you're necessarily
charging, providing value, andit doesn't have to be in a
(23:56):
physical product manner.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (23:59):
Absolutely.
In regards to, you know, you youdocument the content, and then
you have to just decide whatplatform do I do I put this on,
or what platforms m more likely.
What are, as we sit here talkingin October of 25, where do you
see a lot of opportunity?
(24:21):
Where is we you were talkingearlier about the wild west of
Facebook ads where everyone wasa pro.
I remember those days and I Ilook back on them.
Yeah.
What where where it is thatopportunity as you sit here
today?
What what do you think?
SPEAKER_02 (24:36):
Um so every time I I so I have an absolute answer.
And I I before saying it, I wantto preface it a little bit
because I was a non-believer inthis because the US has talked
about it uh for the past tenyears, and it's it was just
(24:59):
never the case, and I thinkwe're finally at the the early
stages of it actually finallybeing a reality, and that's live
shopping.
Um live shopping to me, um, sowe launched it in in April, so
relatively uh not that long ago.
Uh it's already, we're onwhatnot as the platform.
(25:22):
We've done some testing onTikTok shop.
Uh we'll do some testing likelyon eBay coming up, and then once
Amazon rules theirs out, we'llprobably look at that too.
The the reality is it's uh, youknow, for 10 years, someone has
been saying live shopping, liveshopping, look at China, look at
China.
Um the real the China China'sdifferent, right?
(25:45):
It's a different consumer, it'sa different society, it's a
different consumer behavior,different uh consumer purchasing
um variables, I don't think willever be China.
But um even if we become afraction of what they're doing,
then it's it's all of a sudden avery, very large trillion dollar
(26:09):
in ten years space.
Uh so China will be uh liveshopping this year, they'll do
it over a trillion in inrevenue.
Um we're nowhere near that.
I think we're probably maybe 70billion this year, maybe maybe
close to 100 billion.
(26:30):
But all of the the indicatorsare there that it's it's it's
exponentially it exponentiallygrew from 2024.
And all of the things you'reseeing, you know, whatnot, for
example, was 12 employeespre-COVID.
Um they raised at a$5 billionevaluation this year and have
600 employees.
(26:50):
Like, that's a force.
And and they're just one, right?
You have eBay trying to figureout Amazon trying to figure it
out, um, ByteDance or TikTok orwhoever the new owner is going
to be trying to figure it out.
And I think this is the timethat it actually is going to
happen.
And if if I wouldn't have jumpedin in April and we wouldn't have
(27:12):
had the success we're havingthere, I don't think I'd be a
believer because I'm I'm numb toit, right?
I'm numb to hearing about it fora decade and trying stuff and it
not working.
But this is this is theopportunity.
I think it's too early.
I think you could come in tolive shopping now, figure it out
through through mistakes,learning, learning through just
(27:32):
jumping in there, and still beable to grab giant, giant land
amounts where where you couldjust dominate and and establish
yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (27:43):
Okay.
And you had mentioned what wasthe platform again that you're
using?
So we're using whatnot?
W-H-A-T-N-O-T.
Okay.
All right.
When when I think live shopping,I think of old school QVC,
somebody sta standing on astage, and I I have a hunch that
(28:04):
that is it is probably differentin in practice.
Uh what what is your liveshopping setup look like?
And in what's the is it veryformal, like scripted content?
Is it off the cuff?
Are you doing it withinfluencers?
What does it look like?
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (28:20):
So so yeah, so you know, QVC, home shopping
network, uh that whole genre ofof live selling, it it skipped
our generation.
Our generation caused it tofail, right?
Um, but you look at our parents'generation, they'd they'd watch
it and they'd order the the lampthat you can touch on.
(28:41):
And it's a thing.
Um my my wife's uh mother stillis watching it and ordering
stuff.
Um but you know, our generationdidn't find it to be the right
way to buy stuff, um, especiallywith the rise of e-commerce.
And uh this new generation, itit's gone full circle, but
(29:04):
there's a major difference,right?
And the major difference is thenew generation does not have
attention span at all, right?
Um the success of of TikTok orInstagram Reels or YouTube
Shorts validates that every day.
All they want to do is Doomscroll.
And and that's what the liveshopping is now.
It's the same format.
(29:26):
Um, whatnot is literally thesame format as Doom Scrolling on
any of those three platforms,vertical, vertical short forms.
The difference is, um, and youknow, TikTok shop the algorithm
will sneak some shopping stuffin there.
The difference is whatnot is ashopping platform.
So the the intent is muchhigher, right?
(29:48):
You go on TikTok, you're doomscrolling to be entertained, and
then you see an item and youmight buy it, but there's no um
brand loyalty there.
It's a very transactional umscenario.
While whatnot, and you know, Idon't not say whatnot is the end
all be all.
There's I'm sure some otheroptions out there, and the
(30:09):
reality is one of the bigplayers will likely figure it
out as well.
And and if they can't figure itout, they'll buy somebody that
did.
So, you know, I don't know ifwhatnot ends up being the
winner.
There's there's a world whereAmazon buys them, right?
Um But it's a much differentexperience.
It's it's vertical short form.
(30:30):
So you're not talking about aproduct for a 15-minute section
segment.
You're talking about a productpossibly for only 20 seconds.
Um, because that's what uhcurrent attention spans are.
So it's it's quick, it'sadditional products, it's no due
diligence or research uh on theproduct, you're not opening up
(30:51):
another tab and looking like youjust gotta make a decision, very
emotional purchase.
Um and this current generationis they love to make emotional
purchases.
So it's just it's just adifferent world, and it's tough
to get your your uh head aroundit.
But um to the To answer the lastpart of your question, for us,
we we didn't believe that thiswas going to be a thing because
(31:13):
we had heard about it for solong.
So in April we did a very lighttest.
Um we did 10 hours of liveselling.
We just used existing teammembers.
So Brandon, um, the thegentleman I spoke about earlier,
he did he did the shows.
Um and we had uh one of our ourmarketing coordinator was
running the back end of it, anda couple of us on the marketing
(31:35):
team were just watching andgathering these learnings and
trying to understand it.
Um fast forward to to October,um we have two full-time show
runners that all they do is runthe back end of live.
Uh we'll we're doing about 45hours of programmed content
every week.
(31:55):
Um and we have five, five hosts.
Technically four.
The fifth is coming on uh laterlater this this month.
And we're now almost at fullcapacity for the single channel.
So we're deciding what asecondary and tertiary channel
on whatnot, or or maybe it goeselsewhere looks like.
(32:17):
Um so it's it's completelychanged in our our approach
towards it has completelychanged in the uh six months
we've been doing it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:26):
I I'm glad that we went on this detour uh on live
shopping, because you're you'reabsolutely right.
It it is something that ourgeneration has kind of scoffed
at a little bit.
And and the the results are arespeaking for themselves with
what you guys are doing andscaling up.
And so this has been uh anoutstanding conversation.
(32:47):
John, I feel like we could uh wecould talk for hours, but want
to be respectful of your time.
Before we close out the show, wehave something called the fire
round.
It's four questions we askeverybody at the end of the
episode.
Are you ready?
I am.
All right.
What is your favorite book?
The Signal and the Noise.
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
What are your hobbies?
Um sports cards and travelingand food.
SPEAKER_03 (33:18):
Very nice.
What is one thing you do notmiss about working for the man?
SPEAKER_01 (33:25):
I'm I'm going to go with your uh earlier, the the
the 4 a.m.
wake up.
I used to wake up at 4 30 everyday.
I did it for for so many years.
SPEAKER_03 (33:36):
Absolutely, yeah.
You you and I agree on that onefor sure.
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
Don't don't get me wrong, I still I still wake up
at 7, but um it's it's adifferent life experience for
sure.
43 and 7 are not the same.
SPEAKER_03 (33:49):
Yeah.
Uh and final question what doyou think sets apart successful
entrepreneurs from those whogive up, fail, or never get
started?
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Oh, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
Um I think almost you almost have to have a
certain level of crazy.
Um so, you know, I'm a very riskrisk adverse person, but it's uh
I almost have to at times liketell myself, okay, like stop
(34:22):
being so risk adverse, thinkabout crazy ideas, crazy stuff.
Um just critical thinking andand a a slight um slight crazy
view of reality.
SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
So there's gotta be something wrong with you.
Uh to truly execute it.
SPEAKER_03 (34:47):
I fully agree with that.
You go to enough conferences,you there's a personality type
of entrepreneur, although I dobelieve that that word is way
overused.
I hate I hate the word.
I do too.
I do too, but but you know whatI'm talking about.
There's a personality type of,and they are a little crazy.
And I I would put myself in thatcategory, and I am a little
crazy.
(35:07):
Um, and you go to conferencesand you meet people that are a
little bit crazy, and I and Idon't I I think that's a very
good answer.
And so um well outstanding.
Great, great answer, and that'sthe first one that I've heard uh
going down that road, but I Icertainly agree with it.
So, John, if if people areinterested in in learning more
(35:27):
about Battle Box, checking outyour podcast, what's the best
way to do that?
SPEAKER_02 (35:31):
Um so uh yeah, battle box is
b-a-t-t-l-b-o-x.com.
You can just Google it or uhspell it any which way, it'll
it'll pop up.
Um podcast is uh awesomepod.comas o-m pod.
Uh again, you can just type inas o m podcast into Google and
(35:54):
it'll come right up.
And then I have a a blog calledonlinequeso.com where um uh do a
lot of building in public, um, alot of e-com talk.
Uh it's a little bit differentthan most because the the goal
there is to um not just sh notjust show the winnings, the
(36:14):
wins, but really highlight thelosses because the losses are
where you get the learnings andand how you get better and
stronger.
And I think uh social media ingeneral, uh but especially like
even LinkedIn, like you know,there's a lot of noise out
there, right?
Um and the noise is people justbragging and talking about how
(36:34):
great everything is.
Um and the signal.
Um see what I did there, Ibrought back the reference to
the book.
Um the the signal there is uh isthat everyone most people have
way more losses than they havewins.
And uh I think the losses formwho you are and how you handle
situations and how you you pushback uh towards them onward.
(36:58):
Outstanding.
SPEAKER_03 (36:59):
Outstanding.
Well, John, thank you so muchfor your time today.
And for our audience, go checkout John's podcast, check out
Battle Box and everything thathe's doing.
I'll post the links to all thatin the show notes, and we'll see
you next week.
Awesome.
Thanks, David.
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