September 16, 2025 • 40 mins
Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call. https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon
Dylan Jahraus transformed from corporate e-commerce strategist to Etsy powerhouse, landing her shop in the top 0.1% worldwide and hitting $1 million in sales in just a few years. Now coaching over 4,500 Etsy sellers across 30+ countries, Dylan returns to share her expertise on the platform that changed her life.
This conversation dives deep into what makes Etsy different from Amazon and Shopify - from customer expectations to policy control. Dylan reveals that Etsy customers aren't expecting free returns and sellers maintain complete control over their policies, creating a fundamentally different selling environment. She shares how the platform's built-in trust eliminates the friction often associated with independent Shopify stores that might initially appear less trustworthy.
Perhaps most valuable is Dylan's contrarian take on Etsy ads. While many sellers pour money into advertising, Dylan built her million-dollar business primarily through organic growth. "I'm very passionate about exhausting your organic potential first," she explains, noting that in her experience, paid ads have only proven worthwhile for less than 20 people she's worked with. Instead, she recommends free marketing channels like Pinterest, which for one student generated over 1.1 million monthly impressions without spending a dime on ads.
The episode covers practical strategies for international expansion, personalization best practices, and the free shipping debate. Dylan suggests a hybrid shipping model where you might charge a nominal amount when shipping costs are higher while building the remainder into the product price. She also shares her testing methodology to determine what works best for your specific shop.
Whether you're considering Etsy as a new sales channel or looking to optimize your existing shop, this episode provides actionable insights from someone who's mastered the platform. Book a free call with Dylan to chat about your Etsy shop and see if her coaching program might be the right fit for your business goals.
How to connect with Dylan?
Website: https://dylanjahraus.com/
Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/etsy-seller-success-tips-for-starting-growing-and/id1647518076
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeO8Gmc2B-3G2fgcFnRR4Xw
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dylanjahrausofficial
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dylanjahraus/
Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call. https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income streams in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts, serialentrepreneurs David Shomer and
(00:22):
Ken Wilson entrepreneurs, davidShomer and Ken Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to Firing the man podcast, the show for
entrepreneurs and businessbuilders ready to move beyond
the hustle and into ownershipthat truly scales.
I'm your host, david Shomer,and today's guest has
transformed from a corporatee-commerce strategist into a
top-tier Etsy powerhouse.
Meet Dylan Jarvis, an Etsy andShopify seller who's achieved
(00:51):
multi-six-figure success,landing her shop in the top 0.1%
worldwide.
She hit a million dollars insales in just a few years and
has now parlayed that intocoaching over 4,500 Etsy sellers
across 30 plus countriesthrough her structured, no-fluff
programs.
The Ultimate Etsy Course withweekly accountability and 260
(01:18):
group Zoom calls Dylan's weeklypodcast Etsy Seller Success.
Dylan's weekly podcast, etsySeller Success, is packed with
tactical strategies for serioussellers, from how she drives
over 50,000 monthly visits toher shop to how one single
product netted her over 500,000in sales.
(01:38):
For those of you who missed it,dylan was a guest on Firing the
man back in October of 2024.
This was one of our mostdownloaded episodes of all time.
Last week, I sent out a messageto our email list asking for
questions about Etsy to sharewith Dylan.
Well, you delivered, and todaywe're putting Dylan in the hot
(02:00):
seat answering fan-submittedquestions straight from our
hotline.
Let's fire up the conversation.
Here is Dylan Jaris Dylan,welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Awesome.
Thanks for having me, David.
I can't believe it's almostbeen a year.
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I know Time flies.
Time flies when you're ane-commerce seller, I suppose.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
And did you have a baby too?
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
And did you have a baby too?
I did I did.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So I'm now a father of three, and our youngest just
turned one and is walking likeas of last week, which is very,
very exciting Little Samuel.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Oh cute.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
A lot happened.
Wow, yeah, so, yeah, thanks forremembering, yeah.
So, yeah, thanks forremembering, yeah.
So, to kick things off, forthose that missed your first
appearance, which was episode243, and everybody should go
back and listen to that one itwas an outstanding episode.
But for those of you who missedthat, can you fill us in on
your background and path in theentrepreneurial world?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Totally, totally so.
I grew up in a family ofentrepreneurs.
Both of my parents wereentrepreneurs, so it wasn't a
foreign concept to me oranything.
But I got started in corporatee-commerce right out of college.
I worked for some big companiesZappos was in Las Vegas and
then I moved up to Seattle andworked for Zulily and then I
ended up when I was 25, I metsomeone in the military and we
(03:31):
ended up when I was 26, gettingmarried.
We were in San Diego and there'snot much e-commerce here in the
corporate space.
So I was doing all these sidehustles.
I was dog walking, housesitting, buying stuff from
Goodwill and flipping it andEtsy was one of the many side
hustles and actually I didn'ttake it very seriously.
I threw something up there fromour wedding.
Within two months I hadforgotten about it and then all
(03:52):
of a sudden something sold and Irealized, wow, okay, this has
some potential here.
So I basically just appliedeverything from corporate
e-commerce to Etsy and withineight weeks of that, we're
making over 10 grand a month andit kind of was no looking back
from there.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
That's outstanding.
That's outstanding, and all ofthe questions that we have today
are Etsy related from theFiring the man Nation, and so
are you ready to get into someof those?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So ready yes.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Awesome.
So for business owners sellingon Amazon or Shopify or both
that are interested in sellingon Etsy, what are some of the
key differences?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yes, okay.
So the differences are, I wouldsay, good in Etsy's favor.
Now I'll preface this by sayingI have sold on both Amazon and
Shopify and Shopify over sixfigures a year.
Amazon was smaller.
I was in the handmade categoryspecifically on Amazon, so
that's kind of where I was inthose spaces.
(04:52):
Now Etsy has very differentcustomers, the Etsy customer.
Their expectations aredifferent.
The way they behave as aconsumer is different.
They're not expecting freereturns.
They're not going to wear itand then return it that type of
thing.
You own your policy as an Etsyseller.
(05:13):
You own all of your policies.
You can decide if you wantreturns or not.
You choose your turnaround time, you choose production time and
you own all of that.
And in turn you know you canreally compete in that way
Because you own your policies.
You can compete with yourpolicies, and that's something
you can't do in the same way onAmazon.
(05:33):
Now a lot of people think well,why would I drive people to an
Etsy shop if I could just sendthem to Shopify?
Well, etsy has that trust builtup with its customers as well,
whereas Shopify.
First of all, it takes a whileto make a Shopify site not look
sketchy Like even your firstattempt.
It's not going to look supersafe.
It'll look a little scammy.
(05:54):
It's just typical, I feel likein your first couple rounds of
creating a Shopify site.
And with Etsy, they trust theplatform, they're used to
shopping on it, there's notgoing to be friction in that
checkout.
I wonder if this will actuallygo through.
If they're stealing my creditcard and the checkout is smooth,
the trust is there and thenthey are doing the marketing for
(06:16):
you.
So they are bringing thecustomers to their platform.
So instead of paying amarketing team or paying for ads
, you can really rely on thatorganic traffic through their
search engine.
So so many benefits.
Those are just a few of them.
Typically, because of that,your margin will be the highest
on Etsy, because you're notpaying for those eyeballs.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, absolutely, and we're going to.
There's some really goodquestion on ads, but we're going
to.
We're going to wait to addressthat till a little bit later in
the episode.
So for those Amazon and Shopifysellers, if they're considering
Etsy, they're probablywondering one question like are
(06:57):
my products going to sell there?
And so when evaluating theproduct market fit, how do you
go about that?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yes.
So with Etsy you also haveaccess to a lot more customer
data that is qualitative and notjust quantitative.
So what I mean by that is oneof my favorite ways to establish
product market fit is to go toa product and you're using their
search.
So let's say you're searchingfor an heirloom quality gift or
(07:32):
an heirloom gift.
You type that in, you'd filterto, let's say, $200 or higher
and you'd see what are the bestsellers, what is selling really
well, that is $200 or more.
Okay, then you're going to clickinto those listings and they'll
have bestseller badges on them,which means they've had enough
sales and revenue history to winthat badge.
And you'll actually look at thereviews and you'll see who is
(07:55):
reviewing these products, who isbuying these, who is spending
$200 on an engraved hairbrushfor their baby, you know.
And then you click on theirprofiles and you can click on
all those customer profiles andreally look at what else are
they favoriting on Etsy andsuddenly you have a really clear
understanding of what thatcustomer comes to Etsy for.
It's not the hairbrush, it'sall the other things they're
(08:17):
thinking about, all the otherthings they'd buy, and that's
one of the fastest ways to dothat research.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I like it, I really like it, and that is, you know,
I'd never thought about clickingon the customer's profile, and
that is something that youreally don't get on Amazon at
all, and so I really, reallylike that.
So, moving on to the nextquestion for those who are on
(08:44):
Etsy and most of our audiencelives here in the US for
somebody that has an establishedstore in the US and they want
to grow, they can either addmore products or they can sell
their existing products to newpeople, and international
expansion is one that istypically at least discussed
(09:07):
when deciding how am I going togrow my company, and so what
does that look like for an Etsyseller, say, if they wanted to
expand into Canada?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, it's pretty easy.
Actually, it's pretty easy, youbasically, especially if you're
purchasing your shipping labelsthrough Etsy.
They provide a pretty seamlessexperience.
I have never had issues sellinginternationally and it is.
There's no reason not to do it.
Now, the one type of productthat I would hesitate a little
(09:39):
bit is super breakable itemsthat are super high value.
Now, I had a large like threeand a half foot by two and a
half foot flower wall and it wasframed and the frame was just.
That would be the thing thatwould break and so.
But I was still shipping thesethings to Egypt and Dubai and,
as long as you know, you docalculated shipping so the
(10:00):
customer pays fully for theshipping.
You put in the accuratedimensions and weight.
You should be just fine.
Now tariffs like dare we evenbring this up right?
That is the one variable.
And this is today.
It's August 26th Hugeannouncements, huge things
taking going into action rightnow, and I would say it's a very
(10:24):
fluid situation.
The updates that Etsy is makingthey're pretty transparent on
how they're dealing with this.
They're providing alternatives,they're providing options.
So I wouldn't let that hold youback from selling
internationally.
I would say the one thing iswhat's the worst case you offer
international shipping and thenthe person doesn't want to buy
(10:45):
it because it's too expensive.
So what?
You might still catch a few.
So there's no harm in settingit up to offer it.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
That's really interesting.
And so for a US seller, you canpurchase shipping labels from
Etsy to send into Canada.
Yeah, and they will calculatethat cost for you and they'll
like all the border stuff.
They'll handle all of that,presumably.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yep, the customs forms.
Everything is printed out withit so that you are protected.
And you also have the Etsyseller protection program.
So if something gets lost orsomething gets seriously damaged
and it's under a certain value,Etsy will actually cover you
and reimburse the customer thatamount.
(11:33):
And that's only when you buyyour shipping labels through
Etsy and you have to have yourpolicies set up.
If you have no policies,they're not going to support you
with that program.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Interesting, interesting.
So I had mentioned Canada as anatural place to expand to if
you're a US seller and it's justbecause we're in the same
continent.
When you said Egypt, that kindof threw me off, like I was not
expecting Egypt.
And so if where are some areasor what countries does Etsy have
a strong presence in that youcan that you would encourage
(12:11):
people to add to their listing.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yeah, I would turn on .
You can choose the.
I forget if it's countries orcontinents, but I would select
everything available.
Personally, I would absolutelyselect everything available.
Now the one there's a couplelike, for sure Russia.
They are very, you know,careful around.
(12:35):
I don't know that you can shipinto Russia right now, but yeah,
I would turn on everythingpossible now.
But yeah, I would turn oneverything possible.
And I mean Etsy.
We see a very strong presencein the US, in the UK, for sure
Canada.
We also see Australia as well.
Now we see more merchandisecoming from Australia to here
(12:56):
versus here to Australia.
But those are probably some ofthe biggest players Germany,
germany as well.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Okay, okay, that makes sense All right.
So next question is Etsy ads,and the question is is it worth
it and how much should Irealistically spend when I'm
just starting out?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
realistically spend when I'm just starting out.
Yes, Okay, so I am all aboutorganic growth.
You know, even like thiscoaching business, we scaled to
over a million a month withoutads, so I'm very passionate
about exhausting your organicpotential.
First, there's no reason to beturning on ads if you haven't
(13:39):
touched free Pinterest, forexample, Pinterest.
Honestly, doing Pinterest takesabout as much time as it takes
to manage ads or to set them up,and it's free and it's longer
lasting.
So think, for example, what youdo on Pinterest today.
It can be helping you 10 yearsfrom now.
So why wouldn't we want to dothat?
We have someone who did ourPinterest strategy for one year
(14:00):
just under one year, actuallyand they get over 1.1 million
impressions per month.
Now that's huge.
To pay for those eyeballsthrough ads would be just a huge
amount of money, and this is astrategy.
If you can do things likePinterest, Facebook, Instagram,
I would say my favoritecombination is Pinterest and
(14:21):
Facebook.
Pinterest is the long game,Facebook is the short results
kind of game.
If you can do that, yourcompetition's probably not doing
that and it's just another wayfor you to compete.
So if you're not doing thosethings, I would definitely never
touch ads before touching those.
And then ads I mean it's a veryexpensive way to establish
(14:43):
product market fit.
So if you are testing a newproduct, some people think I'm
going to just like blow 50 bucksa day on ads and then see if
people want it.
That is such an expensiveexperiment and maybe it's
because I grew up, like in theMidwest, on a farm with boomer
parents who, like taught me notlike the value of a dollar but
why Like?
(15:03):
If you're willing to let yourmoney on fire, go ahead and try
to see if people like yourproduct with ads.
But I personally would neverrecommend ads unless you know
people like the product, you areconfident in your conversion
rates and you've exhausted everyother organic strategy.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
First, Okay, this is not a fan-submitted question.
This is a personal testimony.
So I have run Etsy ads $10 aday and then I have turned them
off and I have not seen a wholelot of difference in terms of
sales.
And it seems like when I turnit off I'm still getting some
(15:43):
traffic to my listings.
And it feels a lot differentfrom Amazon where you have an
auto campaign, a broad matchcampaign, an exact campaign.
You're bidding like specific,like 26 cents on this keyword.
It's very, you know, for myAmazon business I have a full
time PPC manager.
That's all he does is bid onkeywords.
And when I got over to Etsy,the simplicity of it was in a
(16:09):
way, kind of intimidating.
Like I'm putting money intothis piggy bank and I don't know
where it goes after that orwhat impact it's going to have
on my sales.
And so is that something that?
Am I an anomaly or are thereother people like me?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
No, that is the majority of the cases.
And the thing is, ads canincrease the traffic.
It can increase that trafficnumber, but ads are only going
to perform as well as like yourSEO, for example.
So if your SEO isn't perfect,it's not really going to perform
as well as like your SEO, forexample.
So if your SEO isn't perfect,it's not really going to perform
as well as it could be.
And also, yes, you have no idea.
(16:48):
You put in $10, you say I'mgoing to send it to these 10
listings.
You're not choosing whatproportion to spend on which
listing.
There's so little choice, solittle control.
That's why I say it is likelighting your money on fire.
You have to be okay with notcaring what happens to that.
So I don't operate that way.
And there's much more targetedthings you can do with organic.
(17:11):
So, yeah, I've only seen adswork.
We've had $4,500.
I've probably only seen adswork for less than 20 people
$4,500.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I've probably only seen ads work for less than 20
people Interesting.
That's really reallyinteresting and also good to
know.
That totally changes my mindseton ads and where I'm allocating
dollars.
So thank you for that, yeah.
So next up, the free shippingdebate.
Does offering free shippingactually boost sales or does it
just eat into profit margins?
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Great question.
So in October of last yearwhich was, I guess, when we were
talking last time on your showthey enacted I think it was
October 10th, if I'm rememberingcorrectly and they enacted a
new thing where they said if youhave flat rate shipping under
$6, so $5.99 or less they wouldgive you a boost in search
results.
(18:05):
Now, when they made thatannouncement, we did see a huge
change in traffic for people whohad shipping over $6.
Now I'm not sure if this was atest, because it was an initial
change and then it kind of fadedout and fizzled out.
So now people with shippingover $6, they're not seeing
their traffic having tanked.
(18:27):
It did bounce back.
It was kind of an initialalmost reset of the algorithm.
So if you in general, though, Ido think for a seamless
conversion from viewing itvisiting the listing to buying,
a seamless conversion fromviewing it visiting the listing
to buying, having reasonableshipping in relative to the
(18:47):
price of the product is helpful.
So usually with an averageorder value on Etsy, it's rarely
over $40 from what we see.
So with that kind of average,$6 or less is helpful.
It's more of a no-brainer.
I always recommend testing bothand when you do the test at
least three weeks.
(19:08):
If you've never tested freeshipping, I guess my question
would be why not?
What's stopping you?
It's so easy, it's justchanging one setting.
So I would definitely test bothif you haven't.
And also pay attention to yourcompetition.
Are all the competitors doingfree shipping?
Maybe this would be a way tostand out, offer a lower price
(19:29):
point than them, undercut themand then add it in the shipping
cost.
So test, it is my advice.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I think that's really really good advice.
I think that's really reallygood advice.
And, yeah, it seems like Amazonhas gotten e-commerce shoppers
into the mindset of shipping isfree, which, as business owners,
we know is not true.
You know, you could charge $110and have free shipping, or you
can charge $100 and $10 shipping, but yeah no, I think the
(20:02):
testing.
It makes sense.
And one thing I want to callout which I think is brilliant
is the hybrid model, where youare adding a nominal amount of
shipping costs.
It may not be the full amount,but a $5 or $6 bump.
That's going to help out withprofit margins and may not hurt
(20:23):
your conversion rate a lot.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
So I really like that I really like that.
Yeah, that's a great point.
It doesn't have to be all ornothing.
Let's say shipping costs you 15, maybe charge them five and
build in the rest of the price.
That's a really great reminderto people because I do think
people think it's all or nothingsometimes.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yes, yeah, absolutely , absolutely.
In fact, prior to your answer,that was kind of my mindset.
You either do free shipping oryou don't, and I do think that
hybrid model makes sense.
Are you looking at at the endof that three-week period to
(21:07):
determine?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
whether the shipping cost included or not included
was a better route.
Yeah, so when you test anything, we always want to start top of
funnel.
When we look at the data, okay,so first thing is traffic,
which would reflect aclick-through rate.
Were people more likely toclick on your product when they
saw maybe it was free shippingor maybe, if you did the
(21:29):
opposite, it was a lower priceand they couldn't see what the
exact shipping was?
So that is one thing.
So top of funnel traffic,overall traffic to that listing,
did people click in more orless?
And then the second thing wouldbe the conversion rate on that
listing itself.
So, conversion rate everyoneasks like, what's a good
conversion rate for Etsy?
And I would say it depends ontwo things your price point and
(21:52):
your competition.
For example, if you are sellingsomething that's 99 cents, I
would want to see a conversionrate six to eight percent at
least.
If you're selling somethingthat's $500, under 1% might be
okay.
So just keep that in mind.
There's gray area, there's ascale here.
But look at your conversionrate.
(22:14):
And if the conversion rate wentdown significantly with that
change, okay, you added frictionto the purchasing process.
If it didn't change, okay, thenwhich option was more
profitable for you, and then ifit went up, that's great.
Keep that.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Okay, yeah, I really like that and that's something
that to our listeners.
You could rewind that with aspreadsheet in front of you and
there's your model on how tolook at it.
So, yeah, thanks for beingreally specific there.
That's very, very helpful.
Yeah process, and this issomething I've experienced both
(22:58):
as a seller and as a buyer.
So the question is what's thebest way to collect
personalization details fromcustomers without things
slipping through the cracks?
I see some listings that saycopy and paste your order number
along with the custom text youwant to engrave and then send it
to us in a DM, and there seemsto like there has to be a better
way, and so what's the bestoption here?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, that is a little messy, I would say, once
they're having to find an ordernumber, how do you find that?
Like is this?
You know there's too manynumbers that they could even
pull from.
So simple, simple, simple.
There's the personalizationtext box.
One thing when you're offeringpersonalization, I think the
(23:41):
biggest mistake I see peoplemake with this is they provide
options that the customerdoesn't care about, and this
could be options within avariant, like, let's say, font,
and you're giving them like 15font options and they're all
script.
And you're looking at this onyour phone shopping.
You're like, oh my gosh, Idon't know, I'm going to come
back to this later.
Okay, you just lost 50% ofpeople with that.
(24:03):
And then it's like you knowTimes New Roman, or like Arial,
or you know two fonts that arevery similar.
Well, gosh, I don't know.
Anytime you make people thinkit's a poor customer experience
if they're having to think toomuch.
So I want you to think aboutyour shop and the options you
(24:23):
offer, like Lululemon.
So Lululemon, if you notice,their footprint of a store is
pretty small and they've curatedthe options for you.
They don't have the pulloverand 50 different colors.
They've curated a collection ofseven good color options.
So make those tough decisionsfor the customer, provide them
(24:48):
only good options and make sureall the options are different
enough.
So that is very important whenit comes to personalization.
And then also that's withineach option, like each color
option or font option, curate itdown.
And then also, if you have morethan three decisions that have
to be made on something like doI want it personalized or not?
(25:08):
What color do I want?
Then what pattern do I want?
Do I want a gift tag or a card?
If you're providing so manydecision points, you're going to
lose people.
So maximum of three and have itbe where they can choose at
least two of them in thevariation.
So there's two drop downs.
Exhaust both of those.
(25:29):
And then the third one shouldbe in the personalization text
box or they simply type it inand you can write a lot of text
there.
So you could say this will beprinted exactly as you typed it,
nothing will be changed.
And then you can also say ifyou have additional requests,
send a message or email X.
(25:49):
So that's always an option, butyou're not requiring them to
find you and message you anotherway.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I like that.
And the personalization textbox.
Is that a singular text box orcan you add multiple modules,
like a drop down menu for fonts,which I know you said you
shouldn't but like is there is?
Is it one per listing or canyou add in multiples?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So there are two drop-down variations per listing
so you want to use both ofthose for sure.
And then the third way is ifyou need them to type in
something like an address or aname or a date or something,
then you'd have them type it inand it's only one box.
So if there's multiplequestions you need them to
answer, number it out.
(26:37):
You can use emojis in yourinstructions, in that
personalization instruction boxto really make it eye-catching,
and then also toggle it so it'srequired, so that if you don't
toggle it on to be required,they have to actually click
another step to even find thebox, which most people will miss
.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, I like it.
I like it.
That's really really helpful.
So, on listing strategy, thisnext question asks should I make
one main listing withpersonalization options or
create multiple listings foreach variation personalization?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
options or create multiple listings for each
variation, I see.
So I would say it depends onhow many options you have and
are those options even targetingthe same customer.
So, for example, if you werelet's say you're doing kids
birthday decorations and youhave like three different
options or themes in the shopMaybe you have a princess one
(27:38):
for girls, a trucks one for boys, and then like an animal one
that's a little more genderneutral Would we put all of them
in the same listing where theychoose the girl, the boy or the
neutral?
I wouldn't, and I wouldn'tbecause basically, what you're
doing is you want your thumbnailand your SEO to match up.
You don't want to offersomething in the listing that's
(28:01):
not even relevant to either ofthose things.
So I would say, if it's avariation that would serve the
same customer, yes.
But if you're selling firstbirthday girl party decor,
they're not going to be lookingfor the boy party decor, so why
would you put it in front ofthem?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That makes a lot of sense.
That makes a lot of sense andthat's a good rule if it's
speaking to the same customer.
I really like that, yeah,Awesome.
So on the listing strategy, isthere any we'll call them
(28:43):
advanced tactics in terms of youknow, maybe your title, your
description?
Is there anything on the backend that you can do to make your
listing stand out or gain moreorganic traffic?
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yes, a couple of things we're seeing, especially
now.
One would be professionalphotos.
That really will help.
Photos gosh.
I feel like right now on Etsythey're killing 75% of listings,
people's photos and mock-ups.
They're outdated, they're likethe Achilles heel of your
listing and without that you'rekind of dead in the water.
(29:12):
So professional photos aredefinitely worth it, especially
if it's a product that you knowpeople would like if the photo
was good.
So professional photos arehelpful, maximizing the number
of long-tail keywords.
Now Etsy came out with some SEOtitle advice on what two to
three days ago and they actuallyin this said that you don't
(29:37):
need to use all the charactersin your title.
You could just have 15 words,or is it 15 characters?
Oh, 15 words.
So really these like short,short titles.
Now important.
Um, people think people arefreaking out on YouTube about
this.
They think do I have to gochange all my titles and shorten
them?
(29:57):
Remember, etsy didn't say thatthey will penalize you for using
all the space.
They simply said you don't haveto use all the space.
So, no, do not go changing yourtitles right now.
It's not going to hurt you touse all the SEO real estate.
They just said you don't needto use it all.
My question is why wouldn't youuse it all?
(30:18):
So, anyways, if you're kind of,have you been seeing that chaos
around their titles?
Update.
I would just simmer down.
They're not penalizing you,don't change it.
So yeah, those are a couplerelevant tips for right now.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I think that's
really good to know.
Amazon has also mentionedsomething similar where they're
wanting to get away from keywordstuffing and you see that with
250 character titles that haveevery important keyword in there
and to the shopper it's kind ofannoying.
(30:57):
But to me, e-commerce connectskeywords and products.
That's what it does, and I knowAI.
You can talk about Rufus, youcould talk about some of these
AI shoppers, but to me, the AIsystems are learning from
(31:20):
keywords and text and so yeah, Ican say on the Amazon side of
things, I've continued tokeyword stuff and have been
getting good results.
So very, very good.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
And that's the thing.
Etsy even came out with thisthing.
It's a tool.
It's a beta test right now, sonot for everyone, but you click
a button and it will change yourSEO and it doesn't say it will
change it for the better Like itwill help your ranking.
So I am imagining right now Imean, if you are going on to
Etsy, for sure use provene-commerce SEO strategies.
(31:56):
Don't just trust this beta toolthat they rolled out, because I
saw the demo of it and itwrecked someone's title.
It completely wrecked a title.
So if you see like yourcompetition might be taking
advantage of this new, likeamazing tool that's not so
amazing and it might be hurtingtheir listings, this might mean
it's a new way for you tocompete if you stay and stick
(32:16):
with tried and true SEOprinciples.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
So we had one more question on custom orders and so
, since they can't be resoldright, it's got an engraved name
.
What's the best practice forhandling refunds or returns when
a buyer's not happy?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah Well, everything I sold in my shop was custom,
every single thing.
So there was nothing that wasnot made to order, and I clearly
had policies stating this iscustom made to order.
It cannot be resold.
So therefore there's no returnsor exchanges, and that was
(33:01):
clear in the listing and in thepolicies.
So two different places.
And one thing we also said wasonce you place an order,
production begins within acouple of hours, so there's no
changes to be made.
If you get messages saying youknow and you've like shipped it,
oh my gosh, I want to change itor I noticed a misspelling, let
(33:22):
them know.
Per policy there's no changesand it's already on its way, so
let them know that.
And then I would stick to yourguns, because there are people
who've been trained to abusesellers.
I think Amazon has kind oftrained people to do that and I
(33:42):
would stick to your guns, Unlessyou did something wrong.
I would not be letting peoplereturn personalized stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Okay.
Okay, you've mentioned thepolicy a couple times and this
is something.
I've been on Etsy for quite afew years and I would guess that
my policy is the stock policythat Etsy gives, and so is that.
Am I shooting myself in thefoot, or are there things that I
(34:13):
should do to my policy thatwould enhance the performance of
my account?
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yes.
So, for example, every clientwe work with, we give them copy
and paste policies becausethere's a whole.
There's the static defaultpolicies and then there's a
whole FAQ section that you cancreate yourself and this is
actually considered part of thepolicies.
So that's where you put in yourcustom policies and we give
them copy paste policies thatthey can just put in that are
(34:40):
super robust and we'll coverthem just in case.
So, yes, use the custom FAQarea, because it does show up as
part of your policies.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
OK, ok, very good, very good.
And if people are interested inbecoming one of your students,
what is the best way?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah.
So now let's see last time wetalked.
Even since then, the programhas evolved quite a bit.
So we have different thingslike three-month sprints that
you can do with us, you know,like little 90-day challenges.
It's options where it doesn'thave to be this huge commitment,
it can just kind of get you ontrack and on your way.
So we've probably created over400 unique options, and the best
(35:23):
way to learn more about that isto just book a free call with
us where we can chat throughyour shop.
If it's not the right fit,we'll actually give you free
resources and send you on yourway.
But that way you can actuallytalk to someone in person, show
them your shop, say, hey, thisis what I'm struggling with.
Do I need guidance?
Do I not need guidance?
And that's the best way to evenconsider getting some help.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I like it.
I like it and I will post alink to that in the show notes.
Awesome, dylan, this has beenan outstanding interview.
Before we end the episode, wehave something called the fire
round.
It's four questions we askevery guest at the end of the
show Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
All right, what is your favorite book?
Speaker 3 (36:07):
The Bible.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Very good.
What are your hobbies?
Speaker 3 (36:13):
I'm an entrepreneur.
What are hobbies?
I would say work and buildingmy team.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Great, great.
What is one thing that you donot miss about working for the
man?
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Oh my gosh, probably feeling guilt and pulled in
multiple directions and notfeeling like being worried.
I'm not enough in so many areasof my life now I can really
compartmentalize.
It can be fully with my kids, Ican be fully with my team and,
(36:49):
um, I'm not feeling that spreadthin.
Trying to balance people'semotions, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
I agree with that as well.
All right, and final questionwhat do you think sets apart
successful entrepreneurs fromthose who give up, fail or never
get started?
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I feel like there are andmaybe this is going to be
off-putting to people, but Ifeel like there's this whole
generation.
I don't know if it's ageneration or an age group or
what, but it's.
I call them low-capacity people.
I don't know if you know what Imean, but it's just like, oh,
I'm like so burned out today I'mnot going to do anything, or
(37:35):
I'm just I'm having an off day,I'm not going to, I'm going to
come back tomorrow, or, you know, being willing to let how you
feel dictate what you do.
Like I don't even know thatconcept because, like, I will do
the thing despite how I feel.
And when you let your feelingsguide you on this roller coaster
(37:56):
of your day or of your week,good luck being an entrepreneur,
because that's going to justreally stifle any potential.
So having high capacity,separating feelings from actions
, is really important.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Well, very nice, very nice.
And if people are interested inchecking out your content or
your course, what is the bestway to do so?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, follow us on Instagram.
We post a lot of fun contentthere and then YouTube as well,
which we share over on Instagram.
And then if you ever want tojust chat about Etsy or see if
maybe if your products are theright fit to bring over to Etsy,
book a call with us.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
We'll look at kind of what your situation with Amazon
or Shopify is and then we cankind of show you okay, yeah,
this is what you could bringover to Etsy.
Outstanding Well, dylan, thishas been an outstanding podcast.
Thank you so much for your timeTo the fans.
Thank you so much for yourfan-submitted questions and
Dylan looking forward to havingyou on the show again in the
(38:57):
future.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Yes, thanks for having me, david, this was great
.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Thank you Bye.
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income streams in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts, serialentrepreneurs David Shomer and
(00:22):
Ken Wilson entrepreneurs, davidShomer and Ken Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to Firing the man podcast, the show for
entrepreneurs and businessbuilders ready to move beyond
the hustle and into ownershipthat truly scales.
I'm your host, david Shomer,and today's guest has
transformed from a corporatee-commerce strategist into a
top-tier Etsy powerhouse.
Meet Dylan Jarvis, an Etsy andShopify seller who's achieved
(00:51):
multi-six-figure success,landing her shop in the top 0.1%
worldwide.
She hit a million dollars insales in just a few years and
has now parlayed that intocoaching over 4,500 Etsy sellers
across 30 plus countriesthrough her structured, no-fluff
programs.
The Ultimate Etsy Course withweekly accountability and 260
(01:18):
group Zoom calls Dylan's weeklypodcast Etsy Seller Success.
Dylan's weekly podcast, etsySeller Success, is packed with
tactical strategies for serioussellers, from how she drives
over 50,000 monthly visits toher shop to how one single
product netted her over 500,000in sales.
(01:38):
For those of you who missed it,dylan was a guest on Firing the
man back in October of 2024.
This was one of our mostdownloaded episodes of all time.
Last week, I sent out a messageto our email list asking for
questions about Etsy to sharewith Dylan.
Well, you delivered, and todaywe're putting Dylan in the hot
(02:00):
seat answering fan-submittedquestions straight from our
hotline.
Let's fire up the conversation.
Here is Dylan Jaris Dylan,welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Awesome.
Thanks for having me, David.
I can't believe it's almostbeen a year.
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I know Time flies.
Time flies when you're ane-commerce seller, I suppose.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
And did you have a baby too?
Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
And did you have a baby too?
I did I did.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So I'm now a father of three, and our youngest just
turned one and is walking likeas of last week, which is very,
very exciting Little Samuel.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Oh cute.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
A lot happened.
Wow, yeah, so, yeah, thanks forremembering, yeah.
So, yeah, thanks forremembering, yeah.
So, to kick things off, forthose that missed your first
appearance, which was episode243, and everybody should go
back and listen to that one itwas an outstanding episode.
But for those of you who missedthat, can you fill us in on
your background and path in theentrepreneurial world?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Totally, totally so.
I grew up in a family ofentrepreneurs.
Both of my parents wereentrepreneurs, so it wasn't a
foreign concept to me oranything.
But I got started in corporatee-commerce right out of college.
I worked for some big companiesZappos was in Las Vegas and
then I moved up to Seattle andworked for Zulily and then I
ended up when I was 25, I metsomeone in the military and we
(03:31):
ended up when I was 26, gettingmarried.
We were in San Diego and there'snot much e-commerce here in the
corporate space.
So I was doing all these sidehustles.
I was dog walking, housesitting, buying stuff from
Goodwill and flipping it andEtsy was one of the many side
hustles and actually I didn'ttake it very seriously.
I threw something up there fromour wedding.
Within two months I hadforgotten about it and then all
(03:52):
of a sudden something sold and Irealized, wow, okay, this has
some potential here.
So I basically just appliedeverything from corporate
e-commerce to Etsy and withineight weeks of that, we're
making over 10 grand a month andit kind of was no looking back
from there.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
That's outstanding.
That's outstanding, and all ofthe questions that we have today
are Etsy related from theFiring the man Nation, and so
are you ready to get into someof those?
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So ready yes.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Awesome.
So for business owners sellingon Amazon or Shopify or both
that are interested in sellingon Etsy, what are some of the
key differences?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yes, okay.
So the differences are, I wouldsay, good in Etsy's favor.
Now I'll preface this by sayingI have sold on both Amazon and
Shopify and Shopify over sixfigures a year.
Amazon was smaller.
I was in the handmade categoryspecifically on Amazon, so
that's kind of where I was inthose spaces.
(04:52):
Now Etsy has very differentcustomers, the Etsy customer.
Their expectations aredifferent.
The way they behave as aconsumer is different.
They're not expecting freereturns.
They're not going to wear itand then return it that type of
thing.
You own your policy as an Etsyseller.
(05:13):
You own all of your policies.
You can decide if you wantreturns or not.
You choose your turnaround time, you choose production time and
you own all of that.
And in turn you know you canreally compete in that way
Because you own your policies.
You can compete with yourpolicies, and that's something
you can't do in the same way onAmazon.
(05:33):
Now a lot of people think well,why would I drive people to an
Etsy shop if I could just sendthem to Shopify?
Well, etsy has that trust builtup with its customers as well,
whereas Shopify.
First of all, it takes a whileto make a Shopify site not look
sketchy Like even your firstattempt.
It's not going to look supersafe.
It'll look a little scammy.
(05:54):
It's just typical, I feel likein your first couple rounds of
creating a Shopify site.
And with Etsy, they trust theplatform, they're used to
shopping on it, there's notgoing to be friction in that
checkout.
I wonder if this will actuallygo through.
If they're stealing my creditcard and the checkout is smooth,
the trust is there and thenthey are doing the marketing for
(06:16):
you.
So they are bringing thecustomers to their platform.
So instead of paying amarketing team or paying for ads
, you can really rely on thatorganic traffic through their
search engine.
So so many benefits.
Those are just a few of them.
Typically, because of that,your margin will be the highest
on Etsy, because you're notpaying for those eyeballs.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, absolutely, and we're going to.
There's some really goodquestion on ads, but we're going
to.
We're going to wait to addressthat till a little bit later in
the episode.
So for those Amazon and Shopifysellers, if they're considering
Etsy, they're probablywondering one question like are
(06:57):
my products going to sell there?
And so when evaluating theproduct market fit, how do you
go about that?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yes.
So with Etsy you also haveaccess to a lot more customer
data that is qualitative and notjust quantitative.
So what I mean by that is oneof my favorite ways to establish
product market fit is to go toa product and you're using their
search.
So let's say you're searchingfor an heirloom quality gift or
(07:32):
an heirloom gift.
You type that in, you'd filterto, let's say, $200 or higher
and you'd see what are the bestsellers, what is selling really
well, that is $200 or more.
Okay, then you're going to clickinto those listings and they'll
have bestseller badges on them,which means they've had enough
sales and revenue history to winthat badge.
And you'll actually look at thereviews and you'll see who is
(07:55):
reviewing these products, who isbuying these, who is spending
$200 on an engraved hairbrushfor their baby, you know.
And then you click on theirprofiles and you can click on
all those customer profiles andreally look at what else are
they favoriting on Etsy andsuddenly you have a really clear
understanding of what thatcustomer comes to Etsy for.
It's not the hairbrush, it'sall the other things they're
(08:17):
thinking about, all the otherthings they'd buy, and that's
one of the fastest ways to dothat research.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I like it, I really like it, and that is, you know,
I'd never thought about clickingon the customer's profile, and
that is something that youreally don't get on Amazon at
all, and so I really, reallylike that.
So, moving on to the nextquestion for those who are on
(08:44):
Etsy and most of our audiencelives here in the US for
somebody that has an establishedstore in the US and they want
to grow, they can either addmore products or they can sell
their existing products to newpeople, and international
expansion is one that istypically at least discussed
(09:07):
when deciding how am I going togrow my company, and so what
does that look like for an Etsyseller, say, if they wanted to
expand into Canada?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Yeah, it's pretty easy.
Actually, it's pretty easy, youbasically, especially if you're
purchasing your shipping labelsthrough Etsy.
They provide a pretty seamlessexperience.
I have never had issues sellinginternationally and it is.
There's no reason not to do it.
Now, the one type of productthat I would hesitate a little
(09:39):
bit is super breakable itemsthat are super high value.
Now, I had a large like threeand a half foot by two and a
half foot flower wall and it wasframed and the frame was just.
That would be the thing thatwould break and so.
But I was still shipping thesethings to Egypt and Dubai and,
as long as you know, you docalculated shipping so the
(10:00):
customer pays fully for theshipping.
You put in the accuratedimensions and weight.
You should be just fine.
Now tariffs like dare we evenbring this up right?
That is the one variable.
And this is today.
It's August 26th Hugeannouncements, huge things
taking going into action rightnow, and I would say it's a very
(10:24):
fluid situation.
The updates that Etsy is makingthey're pretty transparent on
how they're dealing with this.
They're providing alternatives,they're providing options.
So I wouldn't let that hold youback from selling
internationally.
I would say the one thing iswhat's the worst case you offer
international shipping and thenthe person doesn't want to buy
(10:45):
it because it's too expensive.
So what?
You might still catch a few.
So there's no harm in settingit up to offer it.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
That's really interesting.
And so for a US seller, you canpurchase shipping labels from
Etsy to send into Canada.
Yeah, and they will calculatethat cost for you and they'll
like all the border stuff.
They'll handle all of that,presumably.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yep, the customs forms.
Everything is printed out withit so that you are protected.
And you also have the Etsyseller protection program.
So if something gets lost orsomething gets seriously damaged
and it's under a certain value,Etsy will actually cover you
and reimburse the customer thatamount.
(11:33):
And that's only when you buyyour shipping labels through
Etsy and you have to have yourpolicies set up.
If you have no policies,they're not going to support you
with that program.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Interesting, interesting.
So I had mentioned Canada as anatural place to expand to if
you're a US seller and it's justbecause we're in the same
continent.
When you said Egypt, that kindof threw me off, like I was not
expecting Egypt.
And so if where are some areasor what countries does Etsy have
a strong presence in that youcan that you would encourage
(12:11):
people to add to their listing.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Yeah, I would turn on .
You can choose the.
I forget if it's countries orcontinents, but I would select
everything available.
Personally, I would absolutelyselect everything available.
Now the one there's a couplelike, for sure Russia.
They are very, you know,careful around.
(12:35):
I don't know that you can shipinto Russia right now, but yeah,
I would turn on everythingpossible now.
But yeah, I would turn oneverything possible.
And I mean Etsy.
We see a very strong presencein the US, in the UK, for sure
Canada.
We also see Australia as well.
Now we see more merchandisecoming from Australia to here
(12:56):
versus here to Australia.
But those are probably some ofthe biggest players Germany,
germany as well.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Okay, okay, that makes sense All right.
So next question is Etsy ads,and the question is is it worth
it and how much should Irealistically spend when I'm
just starting out?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
realistically spend when I'm just starting out.
Yes, Okay, so I am all aboutorganic growth.
You know, even like thiscoaching business, we scaled to
over a million a month withoutads, so I'm very passionate
about exhausting your organicpotential.
First, there's no reason to beturning on ads if you haven't
(13:39):
touched free Pinterest, forexample, Pinterest.
Honestly, doing Pinterest takesabout as much time as it takes
to manage ads or to set them up,and it's free and it's longer
lasting.
So think, for example, what youdo on Pinterest today.
It can be helping you 10 yearsfrom now.
So why wouldn't we want to dothat?
We have someone who did ourPinterest strategy for one year
(14:00):
just under one year, actuallyand they get over 1.1 million
impressions per month.
Now that's huge.
To pay for those eyeballsthrough ads would be just a huge
amount of money, and this is astrategy.
If you can do things likePinterest, Facebook, Instagram,
I would say my favoritecombination is Pinterest and
(14:21):
Facebook.
Pinterest is the long game,Facebook is the short results
kind of game.
If you can do that, yourcompetition's probably not doing
that and it's just another wayfor you to compete.
So if you're not doing thosethings, I would definitely never
touch ads before touching those.
And then ads I mean it's a veryexpensive way to establish
(14:43):
product market fit.
So if you are testing a newproduct, some people think I'm
going to just like blow 50 bucksa day on ads and then see if
people want it.
That is such an expensiveexperiment and maybe it's
because I grew up, like in theMidwest, on a farm with boomer
parents who, like taught me notlike the value of a dollar but
why Like?
(15:03):
If you're willing to let yourmoney on fire, go ahead and try
to see if people like yourproduct with ads.
But I personally would neverrecommend ads unless you know
people like the product, you areconfident in your conversion
rates and you've exhausted everyother organic strategy.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
First, Okay, this is not a fan-submitted question.
This is a personal testimony.
So I have run Etsy ads $10 aday and then I have turned them
off and I have not seen a wholelot of difference in terms of
sales.
And it seems like when I turnit off I'm still getting some
(15:43):
traffic to my listings.
And it feels a lot differentfrom Amazon where you have an
auto campaign, a broad matchcampaign, an exact campaign.
You're bidding like specific,like 26 cents on this keyword.
It's very, you know, for myAmazon business I have a full
time PPC manager.
That's all he does is bid onkeywords.
And when I got over to Etsy,the simplicity of it was in a
(16:09):
way, kind of intimidating.
Like I'm putting money intothis piggy bank and I don't know
where it goes after that orwhat impact it's going to have
on my sales.
And so is that something that?
Am I an anomaly or are thereother people like me?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
No, that is the majority of the cases.
And the thing is, ads canincrease the traffic.
It can increase that trafficnumber, but ads are only going
to perform as well as like yourSEO, for example.
So if your SEO isn't perfect,it's not really going to perform
as well as like your SEO, forexample.
So if your SEO isn't perfect,it's not really going to perform
as well as it could be.
And also, yes, you have no idea.
(16:48):
You put in $10, you say I'mgoing to send it to these 10
listings.
You're not choosing whatproportion to spend on which
listing.
There's so little choice, solittle control.
That's why I say it is likelighting your money on fire.
You have to be okay with notcaring what happens to that.
So I don't operate that way.
And there's much more targetedthings you can do with organic.
(17:11):
So, yeah, I've only seen adswork.
We've had $4,500.
I've probably only seen adswork for less than 20 people
$4,500.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I've probably only seen ads work for less than 20
people Interesting.
That's really reallyinteresting and also good to
know.
That totally changes my mindseton ads and where I'm allocating
dollars.
So thank you for that, yeah.
So next up, the free shippingdebate.
Does offering free shippingactually boost sales or does it
just eat into profit margins?
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Great question.
So in October of last yearwhich was, I guess, when we were
talking last time on your showthey enacted I think it was
October 10th, if I'm rememberingcorrectly and they enacted a
new thing where they said if youhave flat rate shipping under
$6, so $5.99 or less they wouldgive you a boost in search
results.
(18:05):
Now, when they made thatannouncement, we did see a huge
change in traffic for people whohad shipping over $6.
Now I'm not sure if this was atest, because it was an initial
change and then it kind of fadedout and fizzled out.
So now people with shippingover $6, they're not seeing
their traffic having tanked.
(18:27):
It did bounce back.
It was kind of an initialalmost reset of the algorithm.
So if you in general, though, Ido think for a seamless
conversion from viewing itvisiting the listing to buying,
a seamless conversion fromviewing it visiting the listing
to buying, having reasonableshipping in relative to the
(18:47):
price of the product is helpful.
So usually with an averageorder value on Etsy, it's rarely
over $40 from what we see.
So with that kind of average,$6 or less is helpful.
It's more of a no-brainer.
I always recommend testing bothand when you do the test at
least three weeks.
(19:08):
If you've never tested freeshipping, I guess my question
would be why not?
What's stopping you?
It's so easy, it's justchanging one setting.
So I would definitely test bothif you haven't.
And also pay attention to yourcompetition.
Are all the competitors doingfree shipping?
Maybe this would be a way tostand out, offer a lower price
(19:29):
point than them, undercut themand then add it in the shipping
cost.
So test, it is my advice.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I think that's really really good advice.
I think that's really reallygood advice.
And, yeah, it seems like Amazonhas gotten e-commerce shoppers
into the mindset of shipping isfree, which, as business owners,
we know is not true.
You know, you could charge $110and have free shipping, or you
can charge $100 and $10 shipping, but yeah no, I think the
(20:02):
testing.
It makes sense.
And one thing I want to callout which I think is brilliant
is the hybrid model, where youare adding a nominal amount of
shipping costs.
It may not be the full amount,but a $5 or $6 bump.
That's going to help out withprofit margins and may not hurt
(20:23):
your conversion rate a lot.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
So I really like that I really like that.
Yeah, that's a great point.
It doesn't have to be all ornothing.
Let's say shipping costs you 15, maybe charge them five and
build in the rest of the price.
That's a really great reminderto people because I do think
people think it's all or nothingsometimes.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yes, yeah, absolutely , absolutely.
In fact, prior to your answer,that was kind of my mindset.
You either do free shipping oryou don't, and I do think that
hybrid model makes sense.
Are you looking at at the endof that three-week period to
(21:07):
determine?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
whether the shipping cost included or not included
was a better route.
Yeah, so when you test anything, we always want to start top of
funnel.
When we look at the data, okay,so first thing is traffic,
which would reflect aclick-through rate.
Were people more likely toclick on your product when they
saw maybe it was free shippingor maybe, if you did the
(21:29):
opposite, it was a lower priceand they couldn't see what the
exact shipping was?
So that is one thing.
So top of funnel traffic,overall traffic to that listing,
did people click in more orless?
And then the second thing wouldbe the conversion rate on that
listing itself.
So, conversion rate everyoneasks like, what's a good
conversion rate for Etsy?
And I would say it depends ontwo things your price point and
(21:52):
your competition.
For example, if you are sellingsomething that's 99 cents, I
would want to see a conversionrate six to eight percent at
least.
If you're selling somethingthat's $500, under 1% might be
okay.
So just keep that in mind.
There's gray area, there's ascale here.
But look at your conversionrate.
(22:14):
And if the conversion rate wentdown significantly with that
change, okay, you added frictionto the purchasing process.
If it didn't change, okay, thenwhich option was more
profitable for you, and then ifit went up, that's great.
Keep that.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Okay, yeah, I really like that and that's something
that to our listeners.
You could rewind that with aspreadsheet in front of you and
there's your model on how tolook at it.
So, yeah, thanks for beingreally specific there.
That's very, very helpful.
Yeah process, and this issomething I've experienced both
(22:58):
as a seller and as a buyer.
So the question is what's thebest way to collect
personalization details fromcustomers without things
slipping through the cracks?
I see some listings that saycopy and paste your order number
along with the custom text youwant to engrave and then send it
to us in a DM, and there seemsto like there has to be a better
way, and so what's the bestoption here?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, that is a little messy, I would say, once
they're having to find an ordernumber, how do you find that?
Like is this?
You know there's too manynumbers that they could even
pull from.
So simple, simple, simple.
There's the personalizationtext box.
One thing when you're offeringpersonalization, I think the
(23:41):
biggest mistake I see peoplemake with this is they provide
options that the customerdoesn't care about, and this
could be options within avariant, like, let's say, font,
and you're giving them like 15font options and they're all
script.
And you're looking at this onyour phone shopping.
You're like, oh my gosh, Idon't know, I'm going to come
back to this later.
Okay, you just lost 50% ofpeople with that.
(24:03):
And then it's like you knowTimes New Roman, or like Arial,
or you know two fonts that arevery similar.
Well, gosh, I don't know.
Anytime you make people thinkit's a poor customer experience
if they're having to think toomuch.
So I want you to think aboutyour shop and the options you
(24:23):
offer, like Lululemon.
So Lululemon, if you notice,their footprint of a store is
pretty small and they've curatedthe options for you.
They don't have the pulloverand 50 different colors.
They've curated a collection ofseven good color options.
So make those tough decisionsfor the customer, provide them
(24:48):
only good options and make sureall the options are different
enough.
So that is very important whenit comes to personalization.
And then also that's withineach option, like each color
option or font option, curate itdown.
And then also, if you have morethan three decisions that have
to be made on something like doI want it personalized or not?
(25:08):
What color do I want?
Then what pattern do I want?
Do I want a gift tag or a card?
If you're providing so manydecision points, you're going to
lose people.
So maximum of three and have itbe where they can choose at
least two of them in thevariation.
So there's two drop downs.
Exhaust both of those.
(25:29):
And then the third one shouldbe in the personalization text
box or they simply type it inand you can write a lot of text
there.
So you could say this will beprinted exactly as you typed it,
nothing will be changed.
And then you can also say ifyou have additional requests,
send a message or email X.
(25:49):
So that's always an option, butyou're not requiring them to
find you and message you anotherway.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I like that.
And the personalization textbox.
Is that a singular text box orcan you add multiple modules,
like a drop down menu for fonts,which I know you said you
shouldn't but like is there is?
Is it one per listing or canyou add in multiples?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So there are two drop-down variations per listing
so you want to use both ofthose for sure.
And then the third way is ifyou need them to type in
something like an address or aname or a date or something,
then you'd have them type it inand it's only one box.
So if there's multiplequestions you need them to
answer, number it out.
(26:37):
You can use emojis in yourinstructions, in that
personalization instruction boxto really make it eye-catching,
and then also toggle it so it'srequired, so that if you don't
toggle it on to be required,they have to actually click
another step to even find thebox, which most people will miss
.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, I like it.
I like it.
That's really really helpful.
So, on listing strategy, thisnext question asks should I make
one main listing withpersonalization options or
create multiple listings foreach variation personalization?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
options or create multiple listings for each
variation, I see.
So I would say it depends onhow many options you have and
are those options even targetingthe same customer.
So, for example, if you werelet's say you're doing kids
birthday decorations and youhave like three different
options or themes in the shopMaybe you have a princess one
(27:38):
for girls, a trucks one for boys, and then like an animal one
that's a little more genderneutral Would we put all of them
in the same listing where theychoose the girl, the boy or the
neutral?
I wouldn't, and I wouldn'tbecause basically, what you're
doing is you want your thumbnailand your SEO to match up.
You don't want to offersomething in the listing that's
(28:01):
not even relevant to either ofthose things.
So I would say, if it's avariation that would serve the
same customer, yes.
But if you're selling firstbirthday girl party decor,
they're not going to be lookingfor the boy party decor, so why
would you put it in front ofthem?
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That makes a lot of sense.
That makes a lot of sense andthat's a good rule if it's
speaking to the same customer.
I really like that, yeah,Awesome.
So on the listing strategy, isthere any we'll call them
(28:43):
advanced tactics in terms of youknow, maybe your title, your
description?
Is there anything on the backend that you can do to make your
listing stand out or gain moreorganic traffic?
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yes, a couple of things we're seeing, especially
now.
One would be professionalphotos.
That really will help.
Photos gosh.
I feel like right now on Etsythey're killing 75% of listings,
people's photos and mock-ups.
They're outdated, they're likethe Achilles heel of your
listing and without that you'rekind of dead in the water.
(29:12):
So professional photos aredefinitely worth it, especially
if it's a product that you knowpeople would like if the photo
was good.
So professional photos arehelpful, maximizing the number
of long-tail keywords.
Now Etsy came out with some SEOtitle advice on what two to
three days ago and they actuallyin this said that you don't
(29:37):
need to use all the charactersin your title.
You could just have 15 words,or is it 15 characters?
Oh, 15 words.
So really these like short,short titles.
Now important.
Um, people think people arefreaking out on YouTube about
this.
They think do I have to gochange all my titles and shorten
them?
(29:57):
Remember, etsy didn't say thatthey will penalize you for using
all the space.
They simply said you don't haveto use all the space.
So, no, do not go changing yourtitles right now.
It's not going to hurt you touse all the SEO real estate.
They just said you don't needto use it all.
My question is why wouldn't youuse it all?
(30:18):
So, anyways, if you're kind of,have you been seeing that chaos
around their titles?
Update.
I would just simmer down.
They're not penalizing you,don't change it.
So yeah, those are a couplerelevant tips for right now.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I think that's
really good to know.
Amazon has also mentionedsomething similar where they're
wanting to get away from keywordstuffing and you see that with
250 character titles that haveevery important keyword in there
and to the shopper it's kind ofannoying.
(30:57):
But to me, e-commerce connectskeywords and products.
That's what it does, and I knowAI.
You can talk about Rufus, youcould talk about some of these
AI shoppers, but to me, the AIsystems are learning from
(31:20):
keywords and text and so yeah, Ican say on the Amazon side of
things, I've continued tokeyword stuff and have been
getting good results.
So very, very good.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
And that's the thing.
Etsy even came out with thisthing.
It's a tool.
It's a beta test right now, sonot for everyone, but you click
a button and it will change yourSEO and it doesn't say it will
change it for the better Like itwill help your ranking.
So I am imagining right now Imean, if you are going on to
Etsy, for sure use provene-commerce SEO strategies.
(31:56):
Don't just trust this beta toolthat they rolled out, because I
saw the demo of it and itwrecked someone's title.
It completely wrecked a title.
So if you see like yourcompetition might be taking
advantage of this new, likeamazing tool that's not so
amazing and it might be hurtingtheir listings, this might mean
it's a new way for you tocompete if you stay and stick
(32:16):
with tried and true SEOprinciples.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
So we had one more question on custom orders and so
, since they can't be resoldright, it's got an engraved name
.
What's the best practice forhandling refunds or returns when
a buyer's not happy?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah Well, everything I sold in my shop was custom,
every single thing.
So there was nothing that wasnot made to order, and I clearly
had policies stating this iscustom made to order.
It cannot be resold.
So therefore there's no returnsor exchanges, and that was
(33:01):
clear in the listing and in thepolicies.
So two different places.
And one thing we also said wasonce you place an order,
production begins within acouple of hours, so there's no
changes to be made.
If you get messages saying youknow and you've like shipped it,
oh my gosh, I want to change itor I noticed a misspelling, let
(33:22):
them know.
Per policy there's no changesand it's already on its way, so
let them know that.
And then I would stick to yourguns, because there are people
who've been trained to abusesellers.
I think Amazon has kind oftrained people to do that and I
(33:42):
would stick to your guns, Unlessyou did something wrong.
I would not be letting peoplereturn personalized stuff.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Okay.
Okay, you've mentioned thepolicy a couple times and this
is something.
I've been on Etsy for quite afew years and I would guess that
my policy is the stock policythat Etsy gives, and so is that.
Am I shooting myself in thefoot, or are there things that I
(34:13):
should do to my policy thatwould enhance the performance of
my account?
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yes.
So, for example, every clientwe work with, we give them copy
and paste policies becausethere's a whole.
There's the static defaultpolicies and then there's a
whole FAQ section that you cancreate yourself and this is
actually considered part of thepolicies.
So that's where you put in yourcustom policies and we give
them copy paste policies thatthey can just put in that are
(34:40):
super robust and we'll coverthem just in case.
So, yes, use the custom FAQarea, because it does show up as
part of your policies.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
OK, ok, very good, very good.
And if people are interested inbecoming one of your students,
what is the best way?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah.
So now let's see last time wetalked.
Even since then, the programhas evolved quite a bit.
So we have different thingslike three-month sprints that
you can do with us, you know,like little 90-day challenges.
It's options where it doesn'thave to be this huge commitment,
it can just kind of get you ontrack and on your way.
So we've probably created over400 unique options, and the best
(35:23):
way to learn more about that isto just book a free call with
us where we can chat throughyour shop.
If it's not the right fit,we'll actually give you free
resources and send you on yourway.
But that way you can actuallytalk to someone in person, show
them your shop, say, hey, thisis what I'm struggling with.
Do I need guidance?
Do I not need guidance?
And that's the best way to evenconsider getting some help.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I like it.
I like it and I will post alink to that in the show notes.
Awesome, dylan, this has beenan outstanding interview.
Before we end the episode, wehave something called the fire
round.
It's four questions we askevery guest at the end of the
show Are you ready?
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
All right, what is your favorite book?
Speaker 3 (36:07):
The Bible.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Very good.
What are your hobbies?
Speaker 3 (36:13):
I'm an entrepreneur.
What are hobbies?
I would say work and buildingmy team.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Great, great.
What is one thing that you donot miss about working for the
man?
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Oh my gosh, probably feeling guilt and pulled in
multiple directions and notfeeling like being worried.
I'm not enough in so many areasof my life now I can really
compartmentalize.
It can be fully with my kids, Ican be fully with my team and,
(36:49):
um, I'm not feeling that spreadthin.
Trying to balance people'semotions, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
I agree with that as well.
All right, and final questionwhat do you think sets apart
successful entrepreneurs fromthose who give up, fail or never
get started?
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I feel like there are andmaybe this is going to be
off-putting to people, but Ifeel like there's this whole
generation.
I don't know if it's ageneration or an age group or
what, but it's.
I call them low-capacity people.
I don't know if you know what Imean, but it's just like, oh,
I'm like so burned out today I'mnot going to do anything, or
(37:35):
I'm just I'm having an off day,I'm not going to, I'm going to
come back tomorrow, or, you know, being willing to let how you
feel dictate what you do.
Like I don't even know thatconcept because, like, I will do
the thing despite how I feel.
And when you let your feelingsguide you on this roller coaster
(37:56):
of your day or of your week,good luck being an entrepreneur,
because that's going to justreally stifle any potential.
So having high capacity,separating feelings from actions
, is really important.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Well, very nice, very nice.
And if people are interested inchecking out your content or
your course, what is the bestway to do so?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, follow us on Instagram.
We post a lot of fun contentthere and then YouTube as well,
which we share over on Instagram.
And then if you ever want tojust chat about Etsy or see if
maybe if your products are theright fit to bring over to Etsy,
book a call with us.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
We'll look at kind of what your situation with Amazon
or Shopify is and then we cankind of show you okay, yeah,
this is what you could bringover to Etsy.
Outstanding Well, dylan, thishas been an outstanding podcast.
Thank you so much for your timeTo the fans.
Thank you so much for yourfan-submitted questions and
Dylan looking forward to havingyou on the show again in the
(38:57):
future.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Yes, thanks for having me, david, this was great
.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Thank you Bye.
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