October 14, 2025 • 44 mins
Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call. https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon
Tired of hearing that Amazon FBA is “over”? We unpack why the opportunity didn’t die—it evolved—and how smart operators are winning by pairing founder-led insight with ruthless execution. Our guest, veteran seller and agency founder Andy Isom, takes us from his first experiments in the Jungle Scout era to the playbooks he uses today across dozens of live accounts. The big ideas: pick products you actually understand, design for shareability so people want to post what they buy, and respect logistics as a profit lever, not a back-office chore.
We break down the product criteria that still hold up—small, lightweight, and simple for beginners—and when to flip the script with oversized or “boring” items that live in quieter niches. Andy explains how Amazon’s algorithm increasingly rewards external traffic and brand search, why “me too” listings bleed on PPC, and how to choose between rank-first or profit-first ad frameworks. If you’ve ever felt stuck at break-even ACOS, you’ll hear clear ways to test, segment, and scale without gambling the whole account.
Looking for immediate upside? Build a seasonal portfolio. Seasonal SKUs consistently convert harder, advertise cheaper, and generate fast turns when timed well. We map how to stagger products across the calendar, forecast inventory to avoid painful fees, and use ocean freight, 3PL staging, and smarter placement settings to keep logistics costs in check. Along the way, Andy shares why he launched a boutique agency, the advantages of cross-account pattern recognition, and the mindset shifts that separate resilient brand builders from the crowd.
If you’re serious about Amazon in 2025—new seller or seven-figure operator—this conversation offers practical steps to protect margin, spark demand, and scale with precision. Enjoy the episode, then subscribe, share it with a friend who needs a better game plan, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man Podcast, a
(00:03):
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income stream in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts, serialentrepreneurs, David Shomer and
Ken Wilson.
SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
Welcome to Firing the Man, the podcast for
entrepreneurs, brand builders,and e-commerce operators ready
to break free from hustle andbuild something that truly
scales.
I'm your host, David Schomer,and today's guest has mastered
the Amazon trenches and surfacedwith playbooks that real brand
owners can use right now.
(00:45):
Meet Andy Isom, an Amazonseller, e-commerce brand owner,
and founder of the Weevosagency.
He's also the voice behind thetop-ranked podcast Built by
Business, where he shares nofluff, actionable strategies
from inside the trenches ofbrand building.
Whether you're launching yourfirst product or managing a
(01:06):
seven-figure catalog, Andydissects what really matters in
Amazon FBA from navigating theA9 to A10 algorithm shift to
fixing silent conversionkillers, outsmarting
complacency, and capitalizing onnew PPC tools that most sellers
haven't even launched.
Today we'll go beyond generice-commerce advice.
(01:29):
We're digging into designingsystems that maintain growth
without burnout, optimizing forprofitability over rankings, and
scaling using precision, notguesswork.
So whether you're a side hustlestartup or a catalog builder
scaling your portfolio, thisepisode will arm you with the
type of blueprints you can putto work immediately.
(01:52):
Let's fire it up with Andy Isom.
Andy, welcome to the show.
Thanks, David.
I'm happy to be here.
Absolutely.
So to start things off, can youshare with our audience a little
bit about your background andpath in the e-commerce world?
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
So um, quick version of my storyis I actually this is kind of
the fun story.
This is a story I think peoplelike to hear.
Is I was actually in college.
I was sitting in a class.
I can't remember what the classwas.
It was a business school class.
I graduated with a businessdegree.
But I remember this vividly,still to this day.
It was it was 2015.
(02:26):
I even remember the two kidsthat were sitting right next to
me.
I was sitting in the back row ofclass, having a lecture in one
of our business classes, andthese two kids next to me are
looking at their laptop andthey're looking at some like
software tool thing.
And all I can see is a bunch oftoothbrushes, like toothbrush
head replacements for like anelectric toothbrush.
I can see a whole bunch ofthose, and they see just a bunch
(02:46):
of numbers, like dollar signsand you know, reviews.
I was like, so I'm kind of likenot paying attention to the
teacher at this point, and I'mkind of just like looking over
at their laptop, like, what arethese guys doing?
And finally, after class, like Ihad to ask them.
I was like, hey, I'm so sorry.
But like I was totally justpeeping on what you guys were
doing because they're not payingattention.
(03:07):
They're like both likewhispering to each other, like
looking on the screen.
It's like, what were you guysdoing?
They're like, oh, dude, it'sthis software tool, it's called
Jungle Scout, and you can seelike how many products are
selling on Amazon.
So like we're looking at aproduct that you know we might
want to sell on Amazon, um, andwe can see like how much money
(03:28):
people are making selling this.
And I was like, whoa, that'scrazy.
So then they're showing me, andit's they're sharing, they're
gonna sell like, you know,generic brand of like oral B
electric toothbrush headreplacements.
Like, you can sell$100,000 amonth of these, you get them
from China, right?
You sell them for cheaper thanthe name brand, and you know,
that's like what you do.
(03:48):
And I was like, whoa, that iscrazy.
So I actually from that that wasagain like 2015, I'm still in
college.
I actually went home that day,looked up Jungle Scout.
Um, at the time, this is what'scrazy about Jungle Scout too.
You could get a lifetimesubscription for$50.
(04:08):
So I got hooked up LifetimeJungle Scout access for$50
because they're like startup newthing.
And I started messing with it.
And sorry, I'm I'm making, Isaid long story short, uh, but
to kind of like, I guess nowshorten the uh tail end here of
the story, I dabbled in someproject uh some products while I
was still in college.
(04:29):
I had just recently gottenmarried.
I was so broke, I had no job incollege.
I don't know why I even wentdown this path.
I'm ordering samples from China,getting a bill for$200 from UPS,
and my wife was so mad at me.
Oh my gosh.
Because I didn't I didn't knowlike how to do all this.
Like I didn't know that Ishouldn't give a UPS account to
(04:51):
a supplier.
I I didn't realize like, oh, youshould ask them for the shipping
price up front.
Because all I did is I'm like,yeah, oh, I'll set up a UFS
account.
Here's your account, here's myaccount number.
And then they sent me a bill for200 bucks.
I was like, oh crap.
Anyways, I had a lot of likelearning the hard way early on,
but in 2018, we uh I had a jobat that point, had some money,
(05:12):
and my wife and I and ourfriends, we uh actually very
legitimately launched our firstbrand and then yeah, took off
from there and been kind of inthe uh Amazon e-commerce space
since then.
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
Outstanding, outstanding.
And I so I must have got in onthat the Jungle Scout Chrome
extension.
I think I might have paid 99bucks for it, but it's it for a
lifetime, and and like sittinghere with my Chrome tab open,
still looking at it, and it's uhit's outstanding.
So that's that's really, reallycool.
Um, so tell us about some of youknow, you you talked a little
(05:52):
bit about the early days, kindof experimenting, but you know,
with that first brand, what whatdid that look like and and um
what did you do?
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
Yeah, so we started a pet brand again back in 2018.
And I guess to kind of uh thisis a story that I've I've told
so many times over the yearswith people about like how did
you come up with the product?
How did you know how did youdecide on that's that's what you
wanted to sell?
And I'm a big believer that Ithink a lot of the most
(06:23):
successful brands are born moreof, or I guess born more from an
internal idea, problem, passionfrom the founder, and not as
much from a tool telling youwhat you should sell.
And having coached, I've coacheddozens of people now uh
privately, like one-on-one overthe past five years.
(06:46):
And I've seen that same sort ofthing play out where my
students, clients who are themost successful selling products
online, Amazon mainly as beingkind of a focus, the most
successful are the people who,again, they like had an internal
problem that they were trying tosolve for themselves or a
desire, a passion around a hobbyor something.
(07:07):
And then they dug deeper intothat to figure out either what's
a product that fit and alignedwith that, or um, they had a
product idea and they kind ofdived a little bit deeper into
like, okay, I have this idea,but how do I actually make this
idea viable and profitable?
Versus again, I've seen so, so,so, so many people fail in
(07:30):
e-commerce, uh, Amazon inparticular, by just purely
relying on a tool, like a JungleScout or a Helium or whatever
tool you want to use, where theysay, I did I put in all my
number criteria, and this is theproduct the tool tells me I
should sell.
I don't know anything aboutthis, but because Jungle Scout
says, Oh, I should sell hairwigs, I launch hair wigs, don't
(07:54):
know anything about thecustomer, nothing about this,
no, don't know what problem Ineed to solve, don't know how to
price, you know, anything.
And then they wonder why itfails.
Um, many times because again,they'll fizzle out, lose
interest, give up, not have theenergy or emotion to the brand
to like see it through toprofitability.
Um, so yeah, this was a productand a brand that we we had a
(08:18):
dog.
So my wife um was actually handsewing dog bandanas for our dog
and posting pictures onInstagram just because we liked
sharing cute photos of ourpuppy.
And people were DMing us saying,Where did you get that?
And my wife's like, I made it.
I literally sewed it.
And and so people would ask,like, hey, can you make me one?
She's like, Yeah, sure.
(08:38):
Give me 20 bucks and uh I'll goto Joann's, buy fabric that you
want and sew it.
And we would literally likegetting Ven mode, dropping it
off on people's porches, andthen kind of all the pieces
connected, where again I hadthat history of Amazon dabbling
in some stuff.
So I'm always looking at itlike, is this an opportunity?
Is this an opportunity?
And then uh we we partnered withour friends, saw, did some
(09:00):
research, saw like, oh, there'san actual mark uh opportunity.
And then we use the tools tofind the gap that we needed to
fill.
So that's how we figured outlike, all right, what what
bundle should we sell?
What price point?
Where is the gap in this marketthat needs to be filled?
And that's I think where likethe power of the tools come into
(09:20):
play is you kind of pair likeyour natural intuition knowledge
around the category product withwhat the data's telling you, and
you kind of find that sweet spotand and it worked.
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
Outstanding, outstanding.
I I I love that story, and andwhat a gritty, gritty way to
start is is making your ownproducts and selling them, and
and that's outstanding.
Is is that a brand that youstill are running today?
Awesome, awesome.
So let's talk about Amazon as wesit here talking in 2025.
(09:54):
Uh, you will hear a lot ofpeople say, you know, the days
of Amazon's glory days arebehind us, and it's it's really
hard to be successful on Amazonnow.
And so I'm curious, how howwould you respond to those
people?
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
This is a question that I've been asked a lot over
probably the past two years.
I would say 20, like the end of2023 is when the sentiment I
feel like really started to comecome to the forefront of like
e-commerce is like Amazon FBA isdead, Amazon FBA is dead.
I think, I think like almostevery business opportunity that
(10:36):
I've kind of dabbled inthroughout my whole life has
kind of gone through a similartype of, I don't know, curve
where you know someone figuresout a business opportunity like
drop shipping.
I I dabbled in drop shipping.
I had a fishing, I sold fishinggear drop shipping through a
Shopify store, AliExpress, I didthe whole thing.
Where you see like someonediscovers a new leverage, a new
(10:57):
opportunity like drop shipping.
Um it's you know, the supply anddemand where there's a lot of
demand for people who arewilling to buy products from a
drop shipping site and there'snot as much supply.
So then obviously people hearabout it, they see how easy it
is, you get into it, and thenyou know, within a few years,
the curve kind of starts to peakwhere the supply and demand kind
(11:18):
of either levels out or flipsand goes the other way, where
there's too much supply and notenough demand.
And that's when you've kind ofhit that moment of like it's too
saturated, it's dead, it'sdying.
Because it's to me, it's just alot of supply and demand
economics there.
I also think there's a factor ofkind of fatigue, like audience
(11:38):
fatigue, where, and I mean, I'mI'm I'm in this world, right?
I've sold courses on Amazon,I've done Amazon coaching, but
the more the the more that thecategory, the business
opportunity, grows, there's morepeople talking about it, more
people selling courses, sellingcoaching, more people running
ads on Instagram, on Facebook.
And so I think just the generalpublic over time kind of starts
(12:01):
to get a bad taste in theirmouth about it.
I think that's kind of like thefirst initial phases is when you
first see a Facebook ad aboutAmazon FBA like being this great
opportunity in 2020, you'relooking at it like, oh my gosh,
this is an incredibleopportunity.
But once you're seeing Facebookads in 2025 about Amazon FBA is
(12:23):
amazing, everyone's like, oh mygosh, I'm so sick of these.
Like, I've been seeing these adsfor five years.
Like, why are we still pushingthis?
Like, you know, so I think justthat also kind of plays a factor
in the dying, like the businessmodel's dying is people are just
getting sick of hearing aboutit.
Uh, we like we're humans, likehumans like new stuff.
(12:43):
I mean, that's why wecontinually shop and buy new
clothes.
It's like we like what's new,what's new, what's new.
And so we get just sick ofhearing about Amazon FBA, sell
on Amazon, sell on Amazon.
So I do think that like thosetype of things have contributed
to a you know, a negative viewof selling on Amazon as an
(13:04):
opportunity in 2025.
But I think with like prettymuch every business model, even
since like I don't know, thebeginning of time, farming,
let's even say, is there stillan opportunity to make money
farming, being a farmer?
Yes, absolutely.
Is it very different than it wasin the 1800s?
(13:24):
Yes, for sure.
So I think it's like, is theopportunity dead?
No.
But is it evolved?
Is it different?
Yes, definitely.
And so if you're still thinkingthat, you know, Amazon FBA is
the same opportunity it was in2020, it's not.
But can you still make a livingfrom it and do really well and
(13:45):
start now and be successful?
Absolutely.
But you're gonna have toapproach it with a different
strategy in the same way thatlike you're not gonna go out
with a hand plow and start handplowing corn and think that like
you're gonna support your familywith hand tools, garden or
farming.
You're gonna need equipment andyou know, automation and all the
things to make it an actualviable business for you.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
I I very much agree with you.
And uh I I think there are thereare I do, I know there are
millionaires made on Amazonevery single day.
And uh and that has not stopped.
And it they in terms of marketshare, it's still the go-to
place for for people shoppingonline.
And if you think of it as amall, it's the biggest mall in
(14:30):
the world.
There's a lot of people going tothat mall every single day.
And when you try to visualizethe traffic on Amazon as as
people going into a mall, it'sit's hard to even comprehend,
right?
And so um what are let's talkabout, and this is this is to
the new Amazon seller, this isto the experienced Amazon
seller.
(14:51):
Uh, what are somecharacteristics of products that
you've seen do well or tend todo well?
And that this may be the theeconomics of the product where
we're looking at landed cost tosale price.
Um, this may be the size of theproduct or or maybe a price
point.
Um, but what what seems to dowell these days?
SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
That's a I love that question.
Man, that's such a juicyquestion.
I feel like we could talk forfour hours on this question, but
uh a motto that I have lived by.
The people who listen to mypodcast, they know this.
They've heard me literally saythis probably a hundred times in
five years, is small,lightweight, and simple.
Like I have preached that forfive years.
(15:34):
I would say small andlightweight from like the
perspective of profitability isstill like a huge, huge winning
factor.
Uh shipping can eat up a ton ofyour cost, as people learn when
they first launch products,especially if you're sorting or
sourcing from China, right?
So having something that's smalland lightweight, huge advantage.
(15:57):
And then obviously, if it's aproduct that you can source for
reasonably low cost and mark itup for a decent price.
Like, I still think the sweetspot for a lot of products on
Amazon is still in the$20 to$50range.
I mean, they're impulsebyproducts, there's tons of
products that kind of fit inthat category.
(16:18):
It's low risk investment.
So if it fails, you can testsomething else.
Versus, you know, if you'reselling$300 products, you might
have to spend$20,$30 grand oninventory, where if it flops,
you're done.
Like there goes all your cashthat you were going to test
with, and now you're done.
Whereas, whereas again, if youcan get a product made for a
dollar, two dollars, sell it for$20, and it's small,
(16:40):
lightweight, where your FBA feesare gonna be lower, shipping's
gonna be lower, it gives you alot of margin to play with, a
lot of margin for marketing, foradvertising.
And as you know, likeadvertising costs go up over
time.
So, and fees increase over timetoo, which kind of sucks, right?
But the more margin you giveyourself in the beginning to
play with, the more longevityyou're gonna have with that
(17:01):
product as competition comes foryou, PPC, like all the things we
just said.
So, from like a dataperspective, yeah, I'm a huge
fan of small, lightweight, andsimple.
$20 to$50, good profit margin,give yourself a place to start.
But something like from a maybeuh product research perspective,
(17:24):
I I'm kind of finding myself Idon't want to say ditching the
tools because I still use thetools.
I still use all the tools, SmartScout, the Heliums, the Jungle
Scouts, all those tools in doinglike product research and
things.
But something that I've taughtor talked a lot about over this
past year is look for productsthat are built for social media.
(17:50):
I think the old Amazon, I'mcurious what your thoughts on
this are.
I think the old Amazon, meaninglike the pre-COVID era, the 2015
to 2020 era of Amazon, was whitelabeling generic products,
right?
It was iPhone charging cablesthat were not Apple brand, it
was coat hangers, it was justlike random stuff like that,
where people could come toAmazon and get a cheaper version
(18:15):
without spending$15 on theiPhone or the Apple brand.
I think now the the 2025, youcould even say like the 2023 to
2025 plus Amazon is not thosetypes of products where you're
using the research tools andidentifying coat hangers, but
(18:37):
it's more of like really lookingat social media and figuring out
what are products that peoplewant to post about on social
media.
If someone wants to post aboutwithout you paying them, I think
is the biggest key.
If someone wants to takepictures or videos of the
(19:00):
products that they've purchasedsimply because they want to
share it with their friends orfollowers or whatever, and show
how cool they are because theybought this new thing, that's a
winning product.
That's a product that's gonnahave huge legs.
The new algorithm on Amazonheavily favors external traffic.
So any sort of buzz you cangenerate with your brand name on
(19:21):
social media, on Google orwhatever, it's gonna give you a
huge advantage.
So that's what I tell people.
Ask yourself the question isthis a product people would be
excited to post about on socialmedia?
And if it's like no, they're notgonna post about co-hangers,
they're not gonna post aboutpicture frames or whatever, you
know, generic stuff, then don'tsell it.
(19:42):
Because the Chinese will beatyou.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Yes, yeah.
I you you would ask like mythoughts on it, and I I and you
you talk you've talked abouttools a little bit, and I my
relationship with tools havealso changed.
I use them more as a sanitycheck uh at the back end of my
research process as opposed toon the front end.
(20:05):
And I I'll give you a goodexample.
Uh imagine that you're holding acan a six-inch candlestick in
your hand.
Okay, you light it, there's aflame, and wax is dripping down.
There is a little cardboardcircle that would sit at the
base of that so you don't getwax on your hand.
Can you picture what I'm talkingabout?
(20:25):
So I was using this was six orseven years ago.
I was using Jungle Scout and Isaw this huge surge in traffic
for these.
I went out and sourced 5,000 ofthem and went to start selling
them a couple months later afterI had finally got inventory.
And I thought this was going tobe my million-dollar idea.
(20:46):
As it turns out, most churchesdo an Easter vigil where they
hand out candles to everybodyand they need these wafers to
stick around their candles.
And so at that point, I wassearching on like the Tuesday
before Easter Sunday.
And so I still have probably4,950 of those in my warehouse.
(21:09):
And that's a great example ofthe metrics looked great, the
margins looked great, but therewas something I wasn't
considering.
And so uh I in so that thatwould kind of be my my first to
address that that first point ontools.
Um, I think the Me Too productsare tough.
(21:29):
They're really, really tough.
And I I fully agree with you onposting on social media.
I think driving traffic on PPCalone, uh, you tend to break
even a lot or even beunderwater.
And and so uh I, on the otherhand, prefer products over$50,
between like$50 and$100.
I like boring products, which isthe opposite of what you're
(21:52):
saying, but I've had somesuccesses there, um, and
oversized.
And and that is just becauseit's not as saturated.
Now, uh, if you hit it wrong,um, your long-term storage fees
based on cubic feet are going tobe way higher.
Uh and so that I would say thatthose larger products tend to
(22:15):
carry a little bit higher risk.
Um, but I have found that lookthat they're a little bit less
competitive.
And so um, but uh your point onexternal traffic, I I I fully
agree with.
And I think you if you see thethe brains that are crushing it
on Amazon, they have an externalsource of traffic out outside of
(22:36):
PPC.
And and so um, but yeah, really,really good answer there.
Um I do want to.
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
Can I can I touch on the oversized thing?
Please actually I like that yousaid that.
I think too, to maybe clarifyfor for those for for you who
might be listening to this, youhave to be very self-aware.
I think that's something toothat I've learned coaching
people personally is if you'renot really self-aware of your
(23:07):
skill set with e-commerce,product development, marketing,
then you can get yourself into alot of trouble.
So again, I think like the thesmall, lightweight, and simple,
you know,$20,$50, low cost ofmanufacture, good margin, that
protects a lot of people who maynot know what their skill set is
(23:29):
yet, or they just really want totry.
Because I'm the type of persontoo that's like I don't want to
tell people, like I hate to tellpeople like, hey, you just you
do not have the skill set forthis.
Because I've done so many callswith people.
Like when I was doinghigh-ticket private coaching, I
would do calls with peoplebefore, you know, I onboarded
them as a client, and I talk tothem, what's your experience?
(23:51):
And I talk to a lot of peoplewho, in the back of my head, I'm
thinking, there is no chancethis person is going to be
successful with this.
They just they just don'tcomprehend business and products
and that you have to have asense for like what looks good,
how to differentiate, likethings like that.
But again, I hate being that guywho like tells people, don't go
(24:14):
for it, like, don't go for yourdreams, like go try it, learn,
you'll get better.
So that's kind of like myphilosophy of like those type of
people.
However, I've had a lot ofconversations with existing
brand owners or people who arevery skilled that you know,
like, hey, you have a knack forthis.
An oversized product issomething that I've recommended
(24:34):
to quite a few people over thelast few years.
Is you know how this works, youknow how supply chain shipping,
logistics, um, all that stuff,storage fees, like you know how
all this functions in the space.
Now it's time to start lookingwhere no one else is looking.
So I think you said it reallygood.
Like a lot of people look$20 to$50.
(24:55):
That's a very common thing.
A lot of people teach that.
So it's kind of like the zigwhere everyone's zagging, zag
where everyone's zigging,whatever concept.
It's like, all right, I'm gonnado the opposite.
I'll do 50 to 100, I'm gonna dooversize, I'm gonna do boring.
Like it's the stuff that likepeople now start to overlook.
Um, because most people areafraid of that.
(25:15):
It's more risky.
But if you have the skill set,it can be a huge opportunity.
So I like that.
I like that you said that.
SPEAKER_02 (25:20):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I and I agree with you.
We're we're in agreement on thistopic.
So uh we we've talked a littlebit about advertising, and I'd
like to dive in there.
So one observation that I've hadis if you have a product that's
selling for$20, say your landedcost is$10 and your referral
(25:41):
fee, FBA fee is five bucks forsimplicity.
So you've got a$5 profit marginon a$20 product before your PPC
spend.
What I have found is when youstart bidding on your primary
keywords, you you tend to haveabout$5 in in PPC spend to
convert a sale.
And you're at break-even.
(26:01):
And it it's the the uhcapitalism and in the markets of
supply and demand for keywordskind of force it to an
equilibrium.
And and so what you know, aswe're talking in 2025, what's
your view on on PPC and anddoing PPC in a profitable way?
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
This is a really good question.
So in 2023, October 2023, uh Ikind of made the shift in in my
own like personal businessendeavors with e-commerce
education, and I switched fromdoing mostly, uh primarily, I
guess, consulting and coachingto services.
(26:43):
So I launched an agency Octoberof 2023, and I've been basically
doing that essentially fullfocus now.
Moved away from coaching, youknow, finished up some of my
coaching agreements withstudents this past summer.
But now I've been a lot morefocused on PPC.
And it's been really eye-openingto now manage a bunch of clients
(27:05):
and do their PPC.
I mean, with my team, obviously.
My team's doing a lot of theday-to-day, but I mean, I
actually just had two meetingsthis morning.
Tuesday, I do a lot of meetingswith my managers and whatnot to
go over all of our accounts.
So I already had two hours ofmeetings before our uh our
podcast today talking about allof our accounts, strategies, and
everything.
And when it comes to PPC, it'svery interesting how different
(27:26):
strategies work or don't workfor different products and
brands.
So, like some brands andproducts, I should say products
in particular, you can go withlike a very aggressive PPC
ranking strategy, where youknow, we're gonna bid heavily on
exact match keywords, we'regonna push for ranking signals
(27:47):
on Amazon, and then once we, youknow, as we gain ranking, then
the organic sales kind of pickup the slack, and that ends up
pushing us to profitability,even if our ranking is you know
far from profitable uh on thoseconversions.
Um, but other brands that justsimply doesn't work.
Like you just can't do that.
You you can't afford to do that,uh, or it's way, way, way too
(28:10):
long term of a game, or they'rejust I don't know, depending on
the offer, the price, likethere's so many factors here.
But I guess that's kind of likemy my takeaway and insight over
the past two years is you haveto find the right PPC strategy
for your product.
Because if not, like if you ifyou try to do PPC for
(28:32):
profitability too soon, likeokay, I only have 25% margin to
work with, and so I'm only gonnafocus PPC on you know long tail,
profitable keywords, low bids,you'll never get off the ground.
You'll be stuck in like no man'sland of one or two sales a day.
So it's PPC is much morecomplex, I would say, now than
(28:59):
obviously five years ago, butthere's not really like a one
strategy fits all.
It's kind of like having a deepunderstanding.
And I would say this is a hugebenefit of working um with a
team, like working with um anagency, a contractor, whoever,
someone who has a lot of insightinto a lot of different products
(29:21):
in a lot of differentcategories, they're gonna know
or at least have some good ideaof like, hey, for this product,
this is a strategy that weshould test based on all these
other data points that we'veexperienced with other brands.
Otherwise, when you're you knowon your own little island
launching products and runningPPC, you're kind of at the mercy
of YouTube University tryingstuff, spending lots of money,
(29:43):
and then uh hopefully, hopefullyit working out someday.
SPEAKER_02 (29:48):
Absolutely.
I I think that that's probablyone of the first things you
ought to get off your plate asan Amazon business owner is PPC.
And and whether it's an agencyor or somebody that you hire.
I I like when when I'm workingwith somebody who has visibility
into several accounts.
Um because when when you'reself-managing, it's like, am I
(30:08):
doing well?
I don't know.
I'm doing better than lastmonth, but uh I uh it's really
helpful.
And that's where agencies comein.
They say, Oh, you know, okay, wewe managed 20 accounts and and
this is what we're seeing on allof these other accounts.
And and um the the cost ofexperimenting tends to come down
uh because the likelihood of umyou know that they've tried out
(30:32):
a particular strategy on anotheraccount and can bring that
knowledge to your account is isreally, really helpful.
And so um let's this has beengreat, and we're going deep on
on Amazon.
And I uh as an Amazon seller,I'm really, really enjoying this
conversation.
Um what's some low-hanging fruitfor people who are having okay
(30:55):
results on Amazon but but reallywant to step up their game?
What's some low-hanging fruitfor uh scaling an Amazon
account?
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
This is probably the best advice I'm gonna give
today.
And I I think people whoactually take this to heart are
going to crush it.
I literally just had thisconversation with um my agency
partner this morning.
Seasonal products.
I I'm telling you, if you ifyou're listening and you're
(31:25):
thinking about starting, likeyou have no brand, no products,
seasonal products, or if you'reexisting and selling and you're
looking to expand, your nextproduct needs to be a seasonal
product.
I think the issue is we wantthis to be stable income.
Right?
We want it to be likepredictable, where it's like I'm
(31:46):
gonna sell 10 units a day 12months out of the year, and I'm
gonna know exactly all mynumbers, and every month my you
know, PL is gonna be superclean.
I'm gonna know every month I'mgonna make$2,000 profit.
We like that.
That makes us feel good, itmakes us feel like we have a
full-time job and I know wheremy money is gonna come from.
But if you're looking forlow-hanging fruit where you can
(32:08):
come in and crush it inthousands of different products,
be willing to take some bets onseasonal products.
Seasonal meaning, right?
Just for those listening, justto I guess clarify, seasonal
products, products that have,you know, a window of sales
opportunity, but during thatwindow, it's extremely strong.
(32:28):
I mean, you were talking aboutit with the candle thing, right?
Where it might be a productwhere it's springtime.
It's, I mean, obviously theholidays are big ones, like
Christmas related products,Thanksgiving, holidays,
Halloween, back to school,summer, winter products, but
products like that, wherethey're not an evergreen
(32:49):
year-round type of product, butthey're one where demand goes
super high during a certain timeof year.
And I've seen from my own brandand products, and I over 120
SKUs of my own brand, seasonal,always crush, and they're always
the most profitable, they'realways the easiest to advertise.
And then even with all myclients, they have a seasonal
(33:12):
product, their seasonal productalways crushes.
So stack seasonal skews.
Instead of, in my opinion,instead of investing, like I'm
gonna launch five products thatare evergreen, they're gonna
sell year-round.
I would sell five products.
And if you want to be consistentyear-round, sell a product in,
you know, Q1 that does reallywell at the beginning of the
year.
(33:32):
Find a product for spring, findone for summer, and stack
seasonal skews throughout theyear.
You do have to be better, likewith management, right?
You got to time the inventory,you gotta time, you gotta time
stuff really well.
Because if you do research rightnow and you see, oh my gosh,
it's uh what is it?
September Labor Day, beginningof September, right?
(33:55):
And you see like a trend, likesomething is really popping off
right now, you're like, sweet,I'm gonna sell that.
Like, surprise, that only sellsin September and October.
So next April, when you get theinventory, you're gonna be like,
crap, this sucks.
So you kind of got to time it,but if you can.
That's the best low-hangingfruit seasonal products, in my
(34:15):
opinion.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
I think that's great advice.
And I'll just add in a quickpersonal story.
The the most profitable Amazonaccount that I have personally
ever laid eyes on uh was a itwas an eight-figure brand that
sold Halloween customs, and theycrushed it.
And what was really interesting,and I never thought about this,
was that they said, you know, wewe work really, really hard, you
(34:39):
know, in October on fulfillment,um, and obviously three to four
months prior on sourcing, butthey said they're it's an easier
brand to run because you know,November, December, January,
we're we're on vacation.
And and I and I saw their helium10 account, and I can like
(34:59):
personally testify like superprofitable, low CPC, just I I
think that's outstanding adviceuh for experienced Amazon
sellers or for somebody gettingstarted out.
So um it's very, very good.
One of the things that you heara lot of people complain about
(35:19):
is Amazon fees.
And I would say to to thecurrent Amazon sellers, what are
some things that they need to beaware of?
Um perhaps helpful reports or umareas where they can dig in and
see what exactly am I beingcharged for, and then make
(35:40):
decisions on managing those uhthose fees.
SPEAKER_01 (35:45):
Yeah, two, I mean the the fees definitely have
changed over the past five yearspretty dramatically.
I would say uh if I could kindof almost like bundle all of
fees uh and uh uh operationsinto a bucket of extreme
importance, I would saylogistics.
(36:07):
I would say like shippinglogistics is extremely important
nowadays.
Um because if you think aboutmost of the fees, most of the
fees are related to that.
So like inbound placement fee.
That's related to shipping yourproduct into Amazon warehouses.
Are you gonna send everything toone?
Are you gonna split it up intofive?
(36:29):
Um utilization rate kind of.
I mean, that it I know that'smore of like a sales type of
metric, but it's sales based oninventory.
So, like, how quickly are youselling through your inventory
that you have?
Uh, you know, you've got yourinventory surcharge, your
long-term storage fees, howwhatever you want to name those.
Um, so it all kind of comes downto like how efficient are you
(36:53):
being with your shipping, yourlogistics.
And also we've got tariffs now.
So we've got the new tariffthing.
A lot of people were usingdifferent de minimis loopholes
and things like that.
So a lot of that's kind of outthe window.
So you got tariffs that you gotto be really focused on.
And so you just can't afford tobe lazy with your shipping.
I'm someone, I've preached this.
If you go listen to 2020original Andy I some episodes,
(37:14):
I'm like, I love Air Express.
I'm like, Air Express shippingfrom China.
Yes, I love it.
It's fantastic.
DDP, the whole thing.
You cannot ship Air Expressanymore unless you're shipping
like, I don't know, likeenvelopes, like something really
small, right?
You're shipping boat.
Like you're shipping boat now.
That's the way to you gotta findways to be efficient with your
(37:37):
shipping and logistics.
That's where you're gonna likeeither absolutely hurt with fees
or find ways to actually beprofitable.
How much inventory, how much areyou sending to Amazon?
How long is it sitting atAmazon?
What shipping methods are youusing?
Man, all those fees and costsreally are centered around like
(37:58):
the shipping logistics thing, inmy opinion.
SPEAKER_02 (38:00):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I I agree with that.
I definitely agree with that.
So uh let's let's talk about uhWeavos agency and what type of
clients that you serve.
SPEAKER_01 (38:16):
Yeah.
So again, in 2023, I kind ofmade the shift from coaching,
consulting.
I still do um a decent amount ofcoaching and consulting, but my
focus now is more on providingservices.
I kind of saw a lot of mystudents, honestly, like I
didn't really have plans oflike, oh, here's my evolution of
coaching to agency.
(38:36):
No, it was more like I hadcoached so many people in 2020,
20 to 2023 that now a lot of mystudents were like, Andy, like
I'm growing, I'm doing good,I've got 50 SKUs now or
whatever.
I need help managing this.
Like, I can't manage this myselfanymore.
So people kept asking me.
I used to send a ton ofreferrals to other agencies.
(38:57):
Um, but I would I would getfeedback of people having bad
experiences.
And they would send me likereports and be like, Andy, like
my agency is doing this, I don'tknow what they're doing.
And I would tell them, I'd belike, tell your account manager
to do this.
They'd go and then they comeback back.
I told them they did it, andlook, it worked.
I'm like, duh, like surprise.
So I kind of had the aha oflike, gosh, I should probably
(39:19):
just be doing this myself.
Like, why am I why am I sendingpeople to agencies and they're
having bad experiences?
So I launched my own agency, anduh most of my clients, honestly,
are former students of mine,podcast listeners over the
years.
Uh, I don't do it much, I mean,I don't run paid ads.
I'm not like advertising myagency.
(39:40):
It's more just inbound, organic,you know, people who come
through my door and and I kindof choose.
I mean, I'm a boutique agency,you could say.
I'm very involved with all myclients personally.
So I can't have 400 clients likesome agencies.
I think I have how many do Ihave?
I have like 14, I think, rightnow, full Amazon account
(40:00):
management clients.
Um, so yeah, I can afford to bea little bit more picky on like
who I want to work with.
Is this an exciting, you know,product that I feel like has
potential?
And um yeah, like I said, it'sbeen really, really fun and
insightful to see behind thecurtain of so many different
products and brands and andthings now.
(40:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Well, very good.
Very good.
This has been an outstandinginterview, and I think we could
probably sit and talk shop aboutAmazon for several hours.
Uh, but before we end, we havesomething called the fire round.
It's four questions we ask everyguest at the end of the episode.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
All right.
What is your favorite book?
SPEAKER_01 (40:45):
How to win friends and influence people.
It's a good one.
What are your hobbies?
Right now, crazy.
I have obviously lots ofhobbies.
Right now, my crazy random hobbythat I'm obsessed with is my
lawn.
Mowing my lawn, taking care ofmy lawn.
I mowed a putting green into myfront yard.
That's how crazy I am.
That's what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_02 (41:06):
I I have a feeling our Instagram algorithm might
serve us similar content uh as afellow lawn man.
So uh what is one thing you donot miss about working for the
man?
SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
Oh, I feel like for me, like the most freeing thing
was um obviously not being toldwhat to do, like being in
control of what I do and what Iwork on that excites me.
Um but I think too, like beingable to choose who you work
with.
That's a huge benefit.
Like you get to have the say inlike uh who who do you want to
(41:39):
hire?
Who do you want to partner with,who do you want to work with,
instead of kind of being forcedto work with people that you may
not really get along with, butit's like sucks to be you, you
gotta get along with them.
SPEAKER_02 (41:51):
What is what do you think sets apart successful
e-commerce entrepreneurs fromthose who give up, fail, or
never get started?
SPEAKER_01 (41:59):
Ooh, this is a good one.
I mean, I feel like this ismaybe the obvious answer, but uh
being willing to take risks.
I think like risk taking goeshand in hand with
entrepreneurship.
So you gotta build up atolerance for taking risk and
(42:21):
being okay if it doesn't work.
Because when it does work,you're gonna be super, super
glad that you did take the risk.
Very nice.
SPEAKER_02 (42:29):
Andy, this has been a great episode.
If people are interested ingetting in touch with you or
working with your agency, what'sthe best way?
SPEAKER_01 (42:37):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Um, you can just hit up mywebsite, it's just
andyisome.com.
I've got a lot of links on therejust to my personal content
website or uh agency website, Ishould say, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02 (42:50):
So outstanding.
Well, thank you so much for yourtime today and looking forward
to staying in touch.
SPEAKER_01 (42:56):
Yep, absolutely.
Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man Podcast, a
(00:03):
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income stream in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts, serialentrepreneurs, David Shomer and
Ken Wilson.
SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
Welcome to Firing the Man, the podcast for
entrepreneurs, brand builders,and e-commerce operators ready
to break free from hustle andbuild something that truly
scales.
I'm your host, David Schomer,and today's guest has mastered
the Amazon trenches and surfacedwith playbooks that real brand
owners can use right now.
(00:45):
Meet Andy Isom, an Amazonseller, e-commerce brand owner,
and founder of the Weevosagency.
He's also the voice behind thetop-ranked podcast Built by
Business, where he shares nofluff, actionable strategies
from inside the trenches ofbrand building.
Whether you're launching yourfirst product or managing a
(01:06):
seven-figure catalog, Andydissects what really matters in
Amazon FBA from navigating theA9 to A10 algorithm shift to
fixing silent conversionkillers, outsmarting
complacency, and capitalizing onnew PPC tools that most sellers
haven't even launched.
Today we'll go beyond generice-commerce advice.
(01:29):
We're digging into designingsystems that maintain growth
without burnout, optimizing forprofitability over rankings, and
scaling using precision, notguesswork.
So whether you're a side hustlestartup or a catalog builder
scaling your portfolio, thisepisode will arm you with the
type of blueprints you can putto work immediately.
(01:52):
Let's fire it up with Andy Isom.
Andy, welcome to the show.
Thanks, David.
I'm happy to be here.
Absolutely.
So to start things off, can youshare with our audience a little
bit about your background andpath in the e-commerce world?
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
So um, quick version of my storyis I actually this is kind of
the fun story.
This is a story I think peoplelike to hear.
Is I was actually in college.
I was sitting in a class.
I can't remember what the classwas.
It was a business school class.
I graduated with a businessdegree.
But I remember this vividly,still to this day.
It was it was 2015.
(02:26):
I even remember the two kidsthat were sitting right next to
me.
I was sitting in the back row ofclass, having a lecture in one
of our business classes, andthese two kids next to me are
looking at their laptop andthey're looking at some like
software tool thing.
And all I can see is a bunch oftoothbrushes, like toothbrush
head replacements for like anelectric toothbrush.
I can see a whole bunch ofthose, and they see just a bunch
(02:46):
of numbers, like dollar signsand you know, reviews.
I was like, so I'm kind of likenot paying attention to the
teacher at this point, and I'mkind of just like looking over
at their laptop, like, what arethese guys doing?
And finally, after class, like Ihad to ask them.
I was like, hey, I'm so sorry.
But like I was totally justpeeping on what you guys were
doing because they're not payingattention.
(03:07):
They're like both likewhispering to each other, like
looking on the screen.
It's like, what were you guysdoing?
They're like, oh, dude, it'sthis software tool, it's called
Jungle Scout, and you can seelike how many products are
selling on Amazon.
So like we're looking at aproduct that you know we might
want to sell on Amazon, um, andwe can see like how much money
(03:28):
people are making selling this.
And I was like, whoa, that'scrazy.
So then they're showing me, andit's they're sharing, they're
gonna sell like, you know,generic brand of like oral B
electric toothbrush headreplacements.
Like, you can sell$100,000 amonth of these, you get them
from China, right?
You sell them for cheaper thanthe name brand, and you know,
that's like what you do.
(03:48):
And I was like, whoa, that iscrazy.
So I actually from that that wasagain like 2015, I'm still in
college.
I actually went home that day,looked up Jungle Scout.
Um, at the time, this is what'scrazy about Jungle Scout too.
You could get a lifetimesubscription for$50.
(04:08):
So I got hooked up LifetimeJungle Scout access for$50
because they're like startup newthing.
And I started messing with it.
And sorry, I'm I'm making, Isaid long story short, uh, but
to kind of like, I guess nowshorten the uh tail end here of
the story, I dabbled in someproject uh some products while I
was still in college.
(04:29):
I had just recently gottenmarried.
I was so broke, I had no job incollege.
I don't know why I even wentdown this path.
I'm ordering samples from China,getting a bill for$200 from UPS,
and my wife was so mad at me.
Oh my gosh.
Because I didn't I didn't knowlike how to do all this.
Like I didn't know that Ishouldn't give a UPS account to
(04:51):
a supplier.
I I didn't realize like, oh, youshould ask them for the shipping
price up front.
Because all I did is I'm like,yeah, oh, I'll set up a UFS
account.
Here's your account, here's myaccount number.
And then they sent me a bill for200 bucks.
I was like, oh crap.
Anyways, I had a lot of likelearning the hard way early on,
but in 2018, we uh I had a jobat that point, had some money,
(05:12):
and my wife and I and ourfriends, we uh actually very
legitimately launched our firstbrand and then yeah, took off
from there and been kind of inthe uh Amazon e-commerce space
since then.
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
Outstanding, outstanding.
And I so I must have got in onthat the Jungle Scout Chrome
extension.
I think I might have paid 99bucks for it, but it's it for a
lifetime, and and like sittinghere with my Chrome tab open,
still looking at it, and it's uhit's outstanding.
So that's that's really, reallycool.
Um, so tell us about some of youknow, you you talked a little
(05:52):
bit about the early days, kindof experimenting, but you know,
with that first brand, what whatdid that look like and and um
what did you do?
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
Yeah, so we started a pet brand again back in 2018.
And I guess to kind of uh thisis a story that I've I've told
so many times over the yearswith people about like how did
you come up with the product?
How did you know how did youdecide on that's that's what you
wanted to sell?
And I'm a big believer that Ithink a lot of the most
(06:23):
successful brands are born moreof, or I guess born more from an
internal idea, problem, passionfrom the founder, and not as
much from a tool telling youwhat you should sell.
And having coached, I've coacheddozens of people now uh
privately, like one-on-one overthe past five years.
(06:46):
And I've seen that same sort ofthing play out where my
students, clients who are themost successful selling products
online, Amazon mainly as beingkind of a focus, the most
successful are the people who,again, they like had an internal
problem that they were trying tosolve for themselves or a
desire, a passion around a hobbyor something.
(07:07):
And then they dug deeper intothat to figure out either what's
a product that fit and alignedwith that, or um, they had a
product idea and they kind ofdived a little bit deeper into
like, okay, I have this idea,but how do I actually make this
idea viable and profitable?
Versus again, I've seen so, so,so, so many people fail in
(07:30):
e-commerce, uh, Amazon inparticular, by just purely
relying on a tool, like a JungleScout or a Helium or whatever
tool you want to use, where theysay, I did I put in all my
number criteria, and this is theproduct the tool tells me I
should sell.
I don't know anything aboutthis, but because Jungle Scout
says, Oh, I should sell hairwigs, I launch hair wigs, don't
(07:54):
know anything about thecustomer, nothing about this,
no, don't know what problem Ineed to solve, don't know how to
price, you know, anything.
And then they wonder why itfails.
Um, many times because again,they'll fizzle out, lose
interest, give up, not have theenergy or emotion to the brand
to like see it through toprofitability.
Um, so yeah, this was a productand a brand that we we had a
(08:18):
dog.
So my wife um was actually handsewing dog bandanas for our dog
and posting pictures onInstagram just because we liked
sharing cute photos of ourpuppy.
And people were DMing us saying,Where did you get that?
And my wife's like, I made it.
I literally sewed it.
And and so people would ask,like, hey, can you make me one?
She's like, Yeah, sure.
(08:38):
Give me 20 bucks and uh I'll goto Joann's, buy fabric that you
want and sew it.
And we would literally likegetting Ven mode, dropping it
off on people's porches, andthen kind of all the pieces
connected, where again I hadthat history of Amazon dabbling
in some stuff.
So I'm always looking at itlike, is this an opportunity?
Is this an opportunity?
And then uh we we partnered withour friends, saw, did some
(09:00):
research, saw like, oh, there'san actual mark uh opportunity.
And then we use the tools tofind the gap that we needed to
fill.
So that's how we figured outlike, all right, what what
bundle should we sell?
What price point?
Where is the gap in this marketthat needs to be filled?
And that's I think where likethe power of the tools come into
(09:20):
play is you kind of pair likeyour natural intuition knowledge
around the category product withwhat the data's telling you, and
you kind of find that sweet spotand and it worked.
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
Outstanding, outstanding.
I I I love that story, and andwhat a gritty, gritty way to
start is is making your ownproducts and selling them, and
and that's outstanding.
Is is that a brand that youstill are running today?
Awesome, awesome.
So let's talk about Amazon as wesit here talking in 2025.
(09:54):
Uh, you will hear a lot ofpeople say, you know, the days
of Amazon's glory days arebehind us, and it's it's really
hard to be successful on Amazonnow.
And so I'm curious, how howwould you respond to those
people?
SPEAKER_01 (10:13):
This is a question that I've been asked a lot over
probably the past two years.
I would say 20, like the end of2023 is when the sentiment I
feel like really started to comecome to the forefront of like
e-commerce is like Amazon FBA isdead, Amazon FBA is dead.
I think, I think like almostevery business opportunity that
(10:36):
I've kind of dabbled inthroughout my whole life has
kind of gone through a similartype of, I don't know, curve
where you know someone figuresout a business opportunity like
drop shipping.
I I dabbled in drop shipping.
I had a fishing, I sold fishinggear drop shipping through a
Shopify store, AliExpress, I didthe whole thing.
Where you see like someonediscovers a new leverage, a new
(10:57):
opportunity like drop shipping.
Um it's you know, the supply anddemand where there's a lot of
demand for people who arewilling to buy products from a
drop shipping site and there'snot as much supply.
So then obviously people hearabout it, they see how easy it
is, you get into it, and thenyou know, within a few years,
the curve kind of starts to peakwhere the supply and demand kind
(11:18):
of either levels out or flipsand goes the other way, where
there's too much supply and notenough demand.
And that's when you've kind ofhit that moment of like it's too
saturated, it's dead, it'sdying.
Because it's to me, it's just alot of supply and demand
economics there.
I also think there's a factor ofkind of fatigue, like audience
(11:38):
fatigue, where, and I mean, I'mI'm I'm in this world, right?
I've sold courses on Amazon,I've done Amazon coaching, but
the more the the more that thecategory, the business
opportunity, grows, there's morepeople talking about it, more
people selling courses, sellingcoaching, more people running
ads on Instagram, on Facebook.
And so I think just the generalpublic over time kind of starts
(12:01):
to get a bad taste in theirmouth about it.
I think that's kind of like thefirst initial phases is when you
first see a Facebook ad aboutAmazon FBA like being this great
opportunity in 2020, you'relooking at it like, oh my gosh,
this is an incredibleopportunity.
But once you're seeing Facebookads in 2025 about Amazon FBA is
(12:23):
amazing, everyone's like, oh mygosh, I'm so sick of these.
Like, I've been seeing these adsfor five years.
Like, why are we still pushingthis?
Like, you know, so I think justthat also kind of plays a factor
in the dying, like the businessmodel's dying is people are just
getting sick of hearing aboutit.
Uh, we like we're humans, likehumans like new stuff.
(12:43):
I mean, that's why wecontinually shop and buy new
clothes.
It's like we like what's new,what's new, what's new.
And so we get just sick ofhearing about Amazon FBA, sell
on Amazon, sell on Amazon.
So I do think that like thosetype of things have contributed
to a you know, a negative viewof selling on Amazon as an
(13:04):
opportunity in 2025.
But I think with like prettymuch every business model, even
since like I don't know, thebeginning of time, farming,
let's even say, is there stillan opportunity to make money
farming, being a farmer?
Yes, absolutely.
Is it very different than it wasin the 1800s?
(13:24):
Yes, for sure.
So I think it's like, is theopportunity dead?
No.
But is it evolved?
Is it different?
Yes, definitely.
And so if you're still thinkingthat, you know, Amazon FBA is
the same opportunity it was in2020, it's not.
But can you still make a livingfrom it and do really well and
(13:45):
start now and be successful?
Absolutely.
But you're gonna have toapproach it with a different
strategy in the same way thatlike you're not gonna go out
with a hand plow and start handplowing corn and think that like
you're gonna support your familywith hand tools, garden or
farming.
You're gonna need equipment andyou know, automation and all the
things to make it an actualviable business for you.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
I I very much agree with you.
And uh I I think there are thereare I do, I know there are
millionaires made on Amazonevery single day.
And uh and that has not stopped.
And it they in terms of marketshare, it's still the go-to
place for for people shoppingonline.
And if you think of it as amall, it's the biggest mall in
(14:30):
the world.
There's a lot of people going tothat mall every single day.
And when you try to visualizethe traffic on Amazon as as
people going into a mall, it'sit's hard to even comprehend,
right?
And so um what are let's talkabout, and this is this is to
the new Amazon seller, this isto the experienced Amazon
seller.
(14:51):
Uh, what are somecharacteristics of products that
you've seen do well or tend todo well?
And that this may be the theeconomics of the product where
we're looking at landed cost tosale price.
Um, this may be the size of theproduct or or maybe a price
point.
Um, but what what seems to dowell these days?
SPEAKER_01 (15:13):
That's a I love that question.
Man, that's such a juicyquestion.
I feel like we could talk forfour hours on this question, but
uh a motto that I have lived by.
The people who listen to mypodcast, they know this.
They've heard me literally saythis probably a hundred times in
five years, is small,lightweight, and simple.
Like I have preached that forfive years.
(15:34):
I would say small andlightweight from like the
perspective of profitability isstill like a huge, huge winning
factor.
Uh shipping can eat up a ton ofyour cost, as people learn when
they first launch products,especially if you're sorting or
sourcing from China, right?
So having something that's smalland lightweight, huge advantage.
(15:57):
And then obviously, if it's aproduct that you can source for
reasonably low cost and mark itup for a decent price.
Like, I still think the sweetspot for a lot of products on
Amazon is still in the$20 to$50range.
I mean, they're impulsebyproducts, there's tons of
products that kind of fit inthat category.
(16:18):
It's low risk investment.
So if it fails, you can testsomething else.
Versus, you know, if you'reselling$300 products, you might
have to spend$20,$30 grand oninventory, where if it flops,
you're done.
Like there goes all your cashthat you were going to test
with, and now you're done.
Whereas, whereas again, if youcan get a product made for a
dollar, two dollars, sell it for$20, and it's small,
(16:40):
lightweight, where your FBA feesare gonna be lower, shipping's
gonna be lower, it gives you alot of margin to play with, a
lot of margin for marketing, foradvertising.
And as you know, likeadvertising costs go up over
time.
So, and fees increase over timetoo, which kind of sucks, right?
But the more margin you giveyourself in the beginning to
play with, the more longevityyou're gonna have with that
(17:01):
product as competition comes foryou, PPC, like all the things we
just said.
So, from like a dataperspective, yeah, I'm a huge
fan of small, lightweight, andsimple.
$20 to$50, good profit margin,give yourself a place to start.
But something like from a maybeuh product research perspective,
(17:24):
I I'm kind of finding myself Idon't want to say ditching the
tools because I still use thetools.
I still use all the tools, SmartScout, the Heliums, the Jungle
Scouts, all those tools in doinglike product research and
things.
But something that I've taughtor talked a lot about over this
past year is look for productsthat are built for social media.
(17:50):
I think the old Amazon, I'mcurious what your thoughts on
this are.
I think the old Amazon, meaninglike the pre-COVID era, the 2015
to 2020 era of Amazon, was whitelabeling generic products,
right?
It was iPhone charging cablesthat were not Apple brand, it
was coat hangers, it was justlike random stuff like that,
where people could come toAmazon and get a cheaper version
(18:15):
without spending$15 on theiPhone or the Apple brand.
I think now the the 2025, youcould even say like the 2023 to
2025 plus Amazon is not thosetypes of products where you're
using the research tools andidentifying coat hangers, but
(18:37):
it's more of like really lookingat social media and figuring out
what are products that peoplewant to post about on social
media.
If someone wants to post aboutwithout you paying them, I think
is the biggest key.
If someone wants to takepictures or videos of the
(19:00):
products that they've purchasedsimply because they want to
share it with their friends orfollowers or whatever, and show
how cool they are because theybought this new thing, that's a
winning product.
That's a product that's gonnahave huge legs.
The new algorithm on Amazonheavily favors external traffic.
So any sort of buzz you cangenerate with your brand name on
(19:21):
social media, on Google orwhatever, it's gonna give you a
huge advantage.
So that's what I tell people.
Ask yourself the question isthis a product people would be
excited to post about on socialmedia?
And if it's like no, they're notgonna post about co-hangers,
they're not gonna post aboutpicture frames or whatever, you
know, generic stuff, then don'tsell it.
(19:42):
Because the Chinese will beatyou.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Yes, yeah.
I you you would ask like mythoughts on it, and I I and you
you talk you've talked abouttools a little bit, and I my
relationship with tools havealso changed.
I use them more as a sanitycheck uh at the back end of my
research process as opposed toon the front end.
(20:05):
And I I'll give you a goodexample.
Uh imagine that you're holding acan a six-inch candlestick in
your hand.
Okay, you light it, there's aflame, and wax is dripping down.
There is a little cardboardcircle that would sit at the
base of that so you don't getwax on your hand.
Can you picture what I'm talkingabout?
(20:25):
So I was using this was six orseven years ago.
I was using Jungle Scout and Isaw this huge surge in traffic
for these.
I went out and sourced 5,000 ofthem and went to start selling
them a couple months later afterI had finally got inventory.
And I thought this was going tobe my million-dollar idea.
(20:46):
As it turns out, most churchesdo an Easter vigil where they
hand out candles to everybodyand they need these wafers to
stick around their candles.
And so at that point, I wassearching on like the Tuesday
before Easter Sunday.
And so I still have probably4,950 of those in my warehouse.
(21:09):
And that's a great example ofthe metrics looked great, the
margins looked great, but therewas something I wasn't
considering.
And so uh I in so that thatwould kind of be my my first to
address that that first point ontools.
Um, I think the Me Too productsare tough.
(21:29):
They're really, really tough.
And I I fully agree with you onposting on social media.
I think driving traffic on PPCalone, uh, you tend to break
even a lot or even beunderwater.
And and so uh I, on the otherhand, prefer products over$50,
between like$50 and$100.
I like boring products, which isthe opposite of what you're
(21:52):
saying, but I've had somesuccesses there, um, and
oversized.
And and that is just becauseit's not as saturated.
Now, uh, if you hit it wrong,um, your long-term storage fees
based on cubic feet are going tobe way higher.
Uh and so that I would say thatthose larger products tend to
(22:15):
carry a little bit higher risk.
Um, but I have found that lookthat they're a little bit less
competitive.
And so um, but uh your point onexternal traffic, I I I fully
agree with.
And I think you if you see thethe brains that are crushing it
on Amazon, they have an externalsource of traffic out outside of
(22:36):
PPC.
And and so um, but yeah, really,really good answer there.
Um I do want to.
SPEAKER_01 (22:43):
Can I can I touch on the oversized thing?
Please actually I like that yousaid that.
I think too, to maybe clarifyfor for those for for you who
might be listening to this, youhave to be very self-aware.
I think that's something toothat I've learned coaching
people personally is if you'renot really self-aware of your
(23:07):
skill set with e-commerce,product development, marketing,
then you can get yourself into alot of trouble.
So again, I think like the thesmall, lightweight, and simple,
you know,$20,$50, low cost ofmanufacture, good margin, that
protects a lot of people who maynot know what their skill set is
(23:29):
yet, or they just really want totry.
Because I'm the type of persontoo that's like I don't want to
tell people, like I hate to tellpeople like, hey, you just you
do not have the skill set forthis.
Because I've done so many callswith people.
Like when I was doinghigh-ticket private coaching, I
would do calls with peoplebefore, you know, I onboarded
them as a client, and I talk tothem, what's your experience?
(23:51):
And I talk to a lot of peoplewho, in the back of my head, I'm
thinking, there is no chancethis person is going to be
successful with this.
They just they just don'tcomprehend business and products
and that you have to have asense for like what looks good,
how to differentiate, likethings like that.
But again, I hate being that guywho like tells people, don't go
(24:14):
for it, like, don't go for yourdreams, like go try it, learn,
you'll get better.
So that's kind of like myphilosophy of like those type of
people.
However, I've had a lot ofconversations with existing
brand owners or people who arevery skilled that you know,
like, hey, you have a knack forthis.
An oversized product issomething that I've recommended
(24:34):
to quite a few people over thelast few years.
Is you know how this works, youknow how supply chain shipping,
logistics, um, all that stuff,storage fees, like you know how
all this functions in the space.
Now it's time to start lookingwhere no one else is looking.
So I think you said it reallygood.
Like a lot of people look$20 to$50.
(24:55):
That's a very common thing.
A lot of people teach that.
So it's kind of like the zigwhere everyone's zagging, zag
where everyone's zigging,whatever concept.
It's like, all right, I'm gonnado the opposite.
I'll do 50 to 100, I'm gonna dooversize, I'm gonna do boring.
Like it's the stuff that likepeople now start to overlook.
Um, because most people areafraid of that.
(25:15):
It's more risky.
But if you have the skill set,it can be a huge opportunity.
So I like that.
I like that you said that.
SPEAKER_02 (25:20):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I and I agree with you.
We're we're in agreement on thistopic.
So uh we we've talked a littlebit about advertising, and I'd
like to dive in there.
So one observation that I've hadis if you have a product that's
selling for$20, say your landedcost is$10 and your referral
(25:41):
fee, FBA fee is five bucks forsimplicity.
So you've got a$5 profit marginon a$20 product before your PPC
spend.
What I have found is when youstart bidding on your primary
keywords, you you tend to haveabout$5 in in PPC spend to
convert a sale.
And you're at break-even.
(26:01):
And it it's the the uhcapitalism and in the markets of
supply and demand for keywordskind of force it to an
equilibrium.
And and so what you know, aswe're talking in 2025, what's
your view on on PPC and anddoing PPC in a profitable way?
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
This is a really good question.
So in 2023, October 2023, uh Ikind of made the shift in in my
own like personal businessendeavors with e-commerce
education, and I switched fromdoing mostly, uh primarily, I
guess, consulting and coachingto services.
(26:43):
So I launched an agency Octoberof 2023, and I've been basically
doing that essentially fullfocus now.
Moved away from coaching, youknow, finished up some of my
coaching agreements withstudents this past summer.
But now I've been a lot morefocused on PPC.
And it's been really eye-openingto now manage a bunch of clients
(27:05):
and do their PPC.
I mean, with my team, obviously.
My team's doing a lot of theday-to-day, but I mean, I
actually just had two meetingsthis morning.
Tuesday, I do a lot of meetingswith my managers and whatnot to
go over all of our accounts.
So I already had two hours ofmeetings before our uh our
podcast today talking about allof our accounts, strategies, and
everything.
And when it comes to PPC, it'svery interesting how different
(27:26):
strategies work or don't workfor different products and
brands.
So, like some brands andproducts, I should say products
in particular, you can go withlike a very aggressive PPC
ranking strategy, where youknow, we're gonna bid heavily on
exact match keywords, we'regonna push for ranking signals
(27:47):
on Amazon, and then once we, youknow, as we gain ranking, then
the organic sales kind of pickup the slack, and that ends up
pushing us to profitability,even if our ranking is you know
far from profitable uh on thoseconversions.
Um, but other brands that justsimply doesn't work.
Like you just can't do that.
You you can't afford to do that,uh, or it's way, way, way too
(28:10):
long term of a game, or they'rejust I don't know, depending on
the offer, the price, likethere's so many factors here.
But I guess that's kind of likemy my takeaway and insight over
the past two years is you haveto find the right PPC strategy
for your product.
Because if not, like if you ifyou try to do PPC for
(28:32):
profitability too soon, likeokay, I only have 25% margin to
work with, and so I'm only gonnafocus PPC on you know long tail,
profitable keywords, low bids,you'll never get off the ground.
You'll be stuck in like no man'sland of one or two sales a day.
So it's PPC is much morecomplex, I would say, now than
(28:59):
obviously five years ago, butthere's not really like a one
strategy fits all.
It's kind of like having a deepunderstanding.
And I would say this is a hugebenefit of working um with a
team, like working with um anagency, a contractor, whoever,
someone who has a lot of insightinto a lot of different products
(29:21):
in a lot of differentcategories, they're gonna know
or at least have some good ideaof like, hey, for this product,
this is a strategy that weshould test based on all these
other data points that we'veexperienced with other brands.
Otherwise, when you're you knowon your own little island
launching products and runningPPC, you're kind of at the mercy
of YouTube University tryingstuff, spending lots of money,
(29:43):
and then uh hopefully, hopefullyit working out someday.
SPEAKER_02 (29:48):
Absolutely.
I I think that that's probablyone of the first things you
ought to get off your plate asan Amazon business owner is PPC.
And and whether it's an agencyor or somebody that you hire.
I I like when when I'm workingwith somebody who has visibility
into several accounts.
Um because when when you'reself-managing, it's like, am I
(30:08):
doing well?
I don't know.
I'm doing better than lastmonth, but uh I uh it's really
helpful.
And that's where agencies comein.
They say, Oh, you know, okay, wewe managed 20 accounts and and
this is what we're seeing on allof these other accounts.
And and um the the cost ofexperimenting tends to come down
uh because the likelihood of umyou know that they've tried out
(30:32):
a particular strategy on anotheraccount and can bring that
knowledge to your account is isreally, really helpful.
And so um let's this has beengreat, and we're going deep on
on Amazon.
And I uh as an Amazon seller,I'm really, really enjoying this
conversation.
Um what's some low-hanging fruitfor people who are having okay
(30:55):
results on Amazon but but reallywant to step up their game?
What's some low-hanging fruitfor uh scaling an Amazon
account?
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
This is probably the best advice I'm gonna give
today.
And I I think people whoactually take this to heart are
going to crush it.
I literally just had thisconversation with um my agency
partner this morning.
Seasonal products.
I I'm telling you, if you ifyou're listening and you're
(31:25):
thinking about starting, likeyou have no brand, no products,
seasonal products, or if you'reexisting and selling and you're
looking to expand, your nextproduct needs to be a seasonal
product.
I think the issue is we wantthis to be stable income.
Right?
We want it to be likepredictable, where it's like I'm
(31:46):
gonna sell 10 units a day 12months out of the year, and I'm
gonna know exactly all mynumbers, and every month my you
know, PL is gonna be superclean.
I'm gonna know every month I'mgonna make$2,000 profit.
We like that.
That makes us feel good, itmakes us feel like we have a
full-time job and I know wheremy money is gonna come from.
But if you're looking forlow-hanging fruit where you can
(32:08):
come in and crush it inthousands of different products,
be willing to take some bets onseasonal products.
Seasonal meaning, right?
Just for those listening, justto I guess clarify, seasonal
products, products that have,you know, a window of sales
opportunity, but during thatwindow, it's extremely strong.
(32:28):
I mean, you were talking aboutit with the candle thing, right?
Where it might be a productwhere it's springtime.
It's, I mean, obviously theholidays are big ones, like
Christmas related products,Thanksgiving, holidays,
Halloween, back to school,summer, winter products, but
products like that, wherethey're not an evergreen
(32:49):
year-round type of product, butthey're one where demand goes
super high during a certain timeof year.
And I've seen from my own brandand products, and I over 120
SKUs of my own brand, seasonal,always crush, and they're always
the most profitable, they'realways the easiest to advertise.
And then even with all myclients, they have a seasonal
(33:12):
product, their seasonal productalways crushes.
So stack seasonal skews.
Instead of, in my opinion,instead of investing, like I'm
gonna launch five products thatare evergreen, they're gonna
sell year-round.
I would sell five products.
And if you want to be consistentyear-round, sell a product in,
you know, Q1 that does reallywell at the beginning of the
year.
(33:32):
Find a product for spring, findone for summer, and stack
seasonal skews throughout theyear.
You do have to be better, likewith management, right?
You got to time the inventory,you gotta time, you gotta time
stuff really well.
Because if you do research rightnow and you see, oh my gosh,
it's uh what is it?
September Labor Day, beginningof September, right?
(33:55):
And you see like a trend, likesomething is really popping off
right now, you're like, sweet,I'm gonna sell that.
Like, surprise, that only sellsin September and October.
So next April, when you get theinventory, you're gonna be like,
crap, this sucks.
So you kind of got to time it,but if you can.
That's the best low-hangingfruit seasonal products, in my
(34:15):
opinion.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
I think that's great advice.
And I'll just add in a quickpersonal story.
The the most profitable Amazonaccount that I have personally
ever laid eyes on uh was a itwas an eight-figure brand that
sold Halloween customs, and theycrushed it.
And what was really interesting,and I never thought about this,
was that they said, you know, wewe work really, really hard, you
(34:39):
know, in October on fulfillment,um, and obviously three to four
months prior on sourcing, butthey said they're it's an easier
brand to run because you know,November, December, January,
we're we're on vacation.
And and I and I saw their helium10 account, and I can like
(34:59):
personally testify like superprofitable, low CPC, just I I
think that's outstanding adviceuh for experienced Amazon
sellers or for somebody gettingstarted out.
So um it's very, very good.
One of the things that you heara lot of people complain about
(35:19):
is Amazon fees.
And I would say to to thecurrent Amazon sellers, what are
some things that they need to beaware of?
Um perhaps helpful reports or umareas where they can dig in and
see what exactly am I beingcharged for, and then make
(35:40):
decisions on managing those uhthose fees.
SPEAKER_01 (35:45):
Yeah, two, I mean the the fees definitely have
changed over the past five yearspretty dramatically.
I would say uh if I could kindof almost like bundle all of
fees uh and uh uh operationsinto a bucket of extreme
importance, I would saylogistics.
(36:07):
I would say like shippinglogistics is extremely important
nowadays.
Um because if you think aboutmost of the fees, most of the
fees are related to that.
So like inbound placement fee.
That's related to shipping yourproduct into Amazon warehouses.
Are you gonna send everything toone?
Are you gonna split it up intofive?
(36:29):
Um utilization rate kind of.
I mean, that it I know that'smore of like a sales type of
metric, but it's sales based oninventory.
So, like, how quickly are youselling through your inventory
that you have?
Uh, you know, you've got yourinventory surcharge, your
long-term storage fees, howwhatever you want to name those.
Um, so it all kind of comes downto like how efficient are you
(36:53):
being with your shipping, yourlogistics.
And also we've got tariffs now.
So we've got the new tariffthing.
A lot of people were usingdifferent de minimis loopholes
and things like that.
So a lot of that's kind of outthe window.
So you got tariffs that you gotto be really focused on.
And so you just can't afford tobe lazy with your shipping.
I'm someone, I've preached this.
If you go listen to 2020original Andy I some episodes,
(37:14):
I'm like, I love Air Express.
I'm like, Air Express shippingfrom China.
Yes, I love it.
It's fantastic.
DDP, the whole thing.
You cannot ship Air Expressanymore unless you're shipping
like, I don't know, likeenvelopes, like something really
small, right?
You're shipping boat.
Like you're shipping boat now.
That's the way to you gotta findways to be efficient with your
(37:37):
shipping and logistics.
That's where you're gonna likeeither absolutely hurt with fees
or find ways to actually beprofitable.
How much inventory, how much areyou sending to Amazon?
How long is it sitting atAmazon?
What shipping methods are youusing?
Man, all those fees and costsreally are centered around like
(37:58):
the shipping logistics thing, inmy opinion.
SPEAKER_02 (38:00):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I I agree with that.
I definitely agree with that.
So uh let's let's talk about uhWeavos agency and what type of
clients that you serve.
SPEAKER_01 (38:16):
Yeah.
So again, in 2023, I kind ofmade the shift from coaching,
consulting.
I still do um a decent amount ofcoaching and consulting, but my
focus now is more on providingservices.
I kind of saw a lot of mystudents, honestly, like I
didn't really have plans oflike, oh, here's my evolution of
coaching to agency.
(38:36):
No, it was more like I hadcoached so many people in 2020,
20 to 2023 that now a lot of mystudents were like, Andy, like
I'm growing, I'm doing good,I've got 50 SKUs now or
whatever.
I need help managing this.
Like, I can't manage this myselfanymore.
So people kept asking me.
I used to send a ton ofreferrals to other agencies.
(38:57):
Um, but I would I would getfeedback of people having bad
experiences.
And they would send me likereports and be like, Andy, like
my agency is doing this, I don'tknow what they're doing.
And I would tell them, I'd belike, tell your account manager
to do this.
They'd go and then they comeback back.
I told them they did it, andlook, it worked.
I'm like, duh, like surprise.
So I kind of had the aha oflike, gosh, I should probably
(39:19):
just be doing this myself.
Like, why am I why am I sendingpeople to agencies and they're
having bad experiences?
So I launched my own agency, anduh most of my clients, honestly,
are former students of mine,podcast listeners over the
years.
Uh, I don't do it much, I mean,I don't run paid ads.
I'm not like advertising myagency.
(39:40):
It's more just inbound, organic,you know, people who come
through my door and and I kindof choose.
I mean, I'm a boutique agency,you could say.
I'm very involved with all myclients personally.
So I can't have 400 clients likesome agencies.
I think I have how many do Ihave?
I have like 14, I think, rightnow, full Amazon account
(40:00):
management clients.
Um, so yeah, I can afford to bea little bit more picky on like
who I want to work with.
Is this an exciting, you know,product that I feel like has
potential?
And um yeah, like I said, it'sbeen really, really fun and
insightful to see behind thecurtain of so many different
products and brands and andthings now.
(40:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Well, very good.
Very good.
This has been an outstandinginterview, and I think we could
probably sit and talk shop aboutAmazon for several hours.
Uh, but before we end, we havesomething called the fire round.
It's four questions we ask everyguest at the end of the episode.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
All right.
What is your favorite book?
SPEAKER_01 (40:45):
How to win friends and influence people.
It's a good one.
What are your hobbies?
Right now, crazy.
I have obviously lots ofhobbies.
Right now, my crazy random hobbythat I'm obsessed with is my
lawn.
Mowing my lawn, taking care ofmy lawn.
I mowed a putting green into myfront yard.
That's how crazy I am.
That's what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_02 (41:06):
I I have a feeling our Instagram algorithm might
serve us similar content uh as afellow lawn man.
So uh what is one thing you donot miss about working for the
man?
SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
Oh, I feel like for me, like the most freeing thing
was um obviously not being toldwhat to do, like being in
control of what I do and what Iwork on that excites me.
Um but I think too, like beingable to choose who you work
with.
That's a huge benefit.
Like you get to have the say inlike uh who who do you want to
(41:39):
hire?
Who do you want to partner with,who do you want to work with,
instead of kind of being forcedto work with people that you may
not really get along with, butit's like sucks to be you, you
gotta get along with them.
SPEAKER_02 (41:51):
What is what do you think sets apart successful
e-commerce entrepreneurs fromthose who give up, fail, or
never get started?
SPEAKER_01 (41:59):
Ooh, this is a good one.
I mean, I feel like this ismaybe the obvious answer, but uh
being willing to take risks.
I think like risk taking goeshand in hand with
entrepreneurship.
So you gotta build up atolerance for taking risk and
(42:21):
being okay if it doesn't work.
Because when it does work,you're gonna be super, super
glad that you did take the risk.
Very nice.
SPEAKER_02 (42:29):
Andy, this has been a great episode.
If people are interested ingetting in touch with you or
working with your agency, what'sthe best way?
SPEAKER_01 (42:37):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Um, you can just hit up mywebsite, it's just
andyisome.com.
I've got a lot of links on therejust to my personal content
website or uh agency website, Ishould say, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02 (42:50):
So outstanding.
Well, thank you so much for yourtime today and looking forward
to staying in touch.
SPEAKER_01 (42:56):
Yep, absolutely.
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