March 25, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode of Firing the Man, we sit down with Kurt Elster, founder of EtherCycle and host of The Unofficial Shopify Podcast. Kurt shares his journey from flipping Beanie Babies and Furbies on eBay to becoming one of the most trusted Shopify experts. He discusses key strategies for building and scaling a successful Shopify store, including the importance of branding, storytelling, and optimizing your website for conversions. Kurt also highlights the biggest mistakes store owners make—like neglecting their checkout page and cluttering their navigation menu—and offers practical solutions to fix them. Whether you're just starting out or looking to scale, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you grow your e-commerce business.
We also dive into customer acquisition strategies, including the role of Amazon vs. direct-to-consumer sales, how to drive traffic beyond Facebook and Google ads, and why content marketing is a game-changer. Kurt shares his take on the value of trying things yourself before hiring experts, the importance of understanding your unit economics, and how to build trust with potential customers. Plus, in our signature Fire Round, Kurt talks about his favorite book, his passion for e-biking and restoring vintage cars, and what sets successful entrepreneurs apart from those who struggle. Don't miss this conversation filled with expert advice and behind-the-scenes insights from one of Shopify's top consultants!
How to connect with Kurt?
Website: https://kurtelster.com/
https://ethercycle.com/
Podcast: https://unofficialshopifypodcast.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/kurtinc
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtelster
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income streams in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts serialentrepreneurs David Shomer and
(00:20):
Ken Wilson.
Entrepreneurs David Shomer andKen Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome back to the Firing the man podcast, a show
where we bring you the realstory, strategies and insights
from entrepreneurs who havetaken control of their own
destiny.
Today, we have a powerhouse ofa guest joining us Lance Syko.
Lance is an architect,entrepreneur and educator who,
along with his business partner,alex Gore, co-founded F9
(00:48):
Productions, a top-tier designbuild firm in Longmont, colorado
.
With a background spanningarchitecture, construction and
business, lance has been at theforefront of creating innovative
, high-quality designs in bothresidential and commercial
spaces.
Beyond running a successfulfirm, lance is deeply committed
(01:09):
to sustainability as thepresident of Longmont Community
Gardens, promoting greeninitiatives and community
engagement.
He also co-hosts Inside theFirm podcast, where he shares
hard-earned lessons on scalingarchitecture firms,
entrepreneurship and navigatingthe business world.
In today's episode, we dive intoLance's journey from building a
(01:30):
thriving architecture firm tohis passion for business,
community and sustainability.
If you're an entrepreneur,business owner or someone
looking to fire the man andbuild something of your own,
this is an episode you will notwant to miss.
Let's get into it, lance.
Welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks for having me,david, absolutely.
So, to start things off, canyou share with the audience your
(01:54):
transition from architectureand building to a thriving
design build firm?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, I'm 42.
My story starts when I was 13,growing up in Northwest North
Dakota.
I grew up between a sugar beetfarm and a cattle ranch and on
the sugar beet farm I went outto go get my first real job,
which was like working with mydad irrigating sugar beets, and
I lasted about a week.
He and I just didn't get alongand I said I had a replacement,
even ready to like.
My best friend Chris was.
I was like hey Dad, I had areplacement, even ready to like.
(02:23):
My best friend Chris was.
I was like hey, dad, I'm notgoing to do this anymore.
I, you know I don't like it,it's not for me, but Chris was
happy to take my job.
Chris took my job and he goes.
My dad was like well, you got todo something.
I'm like, yeah, of course.
Like I want money for schoolclothes Cause dad wouldn't buy
me the cool Jordans and stufflike that.
So I called his best friend upwho was a general contractor,
(02:44):
his name was Bruce, asked himfor a job and I said I'll do
anything and he goes Well, youcan be my gopher.
And I was like cool.
And he was like yeah, I pay$7.25 an hour.
And I was like what's a gopher?
And he goes oh, you're going togo for this, Go for that.
When you're done going for thethings, then you can get with
the big boys and learn how toroof.
And I was the best dang gopherhe ever had.
I just instantly fell in lovewith the whole industry right
(03:06):
away.
I love the camaraderie.
I love even the catcalling,just kind of that environment.
It was just rough, gruff guysand I was a skinny 13-year-old
kid and I wanted to get musclesand it was real hard work but it
was so rewarding because yougot to see the roof taken off in
the morning, put it back on thenext day.
But it was so rewarding becauseyou got to see the roof taken
off in the morning, put it backon the next day.
(03:26):
About halfway through thesummer Bruce saw something in me
that he didn't see in maybeanybody else that he ever hired
before and I think it was justenthusiasm and actually loving
the job and being curious abouteverything.
And he says so he pulled measide one day and he goes.
You know, I pay you $7.25 anhour.
What do you think I charge thecustomers?
I pay you $7.25 an hour.
(03:46):
What do you think I charge thecustomers.
I go $7.25 an hour and helaughed.
And he laughed and I was like Iwas kind of embarrassed and he
goes no, no.
And then he explained howservice-based businesses work
right, especially if you'reemploying people.
There's usually a two or threeor four I would, I pay them.
You know, I'm charging thecustomer two or three, four
times, like you're what I payyou per hour.
And I go oh, why?
(04:07):
I mean that seems, are youripping them off?
And he goes no, no, no, no, no.
This is this.
And he explained profit,overhead, downtime, you know,
going after work, the whole.
He explained everything to meand I just completely
transformed my brain that day.
And then I had another epiphanyand the sister epiphany to that
(04:28):
was I had the rich dad, poor dadexperience, without even
knowing who Reaper RobertKiyosaki was, and I only read
the book, maybe about 10 yearsago.
But after I read the book Iwent oh my gosh, I had the rich
dad, poor dad experience,because Bruce had almost no
anxiety when it came to moneyand that's all my mother and
father had was anxiety and theyhad a cope, even when I was
(04:49):
growing up, and it was havingmoney, they would say having
money isn't everything.
And I hated that.
I just hated hearing that.
I was like what a cope.
So that's how you're going tolive your life.
And then my favorite rapperabout 10 years ago, kanye West
west, said finish the sentencefor me.
And he goes having money isn'teverything, not having it is.
And I was like, oh, that's whatI've been waiting for.
(05:11):
Like I thank you and uh, and soI go.
Well, I said so well, well,bruce, how do I?
At the end of the summer, I waslike, how do I become you?
Like, how do I become a generalcontractor?
And he goes.
And it was one of the probablybravest things maybe the guys
ever said.
Like it was such a beautifullyconfident thing to say Because I
(05:32):
even think about it as me as anemployer, to say what he said,
which was well, you don't workfor me next summer, you can work
for somebody else.
And then you work for somebodyelse and work for somebody else.
You need to learn all thedifferent trades so you can be a
general contractor.
And he knew how good of aworker I was too, so for him to
say that was like what afatherly moment.
I mean, that's just like Ithought it was so beautiful in
hindsight.
So that's what I did From 13 to21,.
(05:57):
I went.
I wanted to be a builder first,so I worked all those different
trades, went to tech school forbuilding construction technology
in Wahpeton, north Dakota, andby the end of and when, when I
went to tech school was like thefirst time I ever liked school
and all of a sudden I had achoice of what I wanted to do
and I was.
I was getting straight A's andgetting all these scholarships
and like monetizing going toschool.
It was amazing.
So I get to the end of my stintthere, my two year stint and
(06:21):
our capstone project was we hadto build a house with our team
and I started looking at theblueprints and I was like, why
did the architect like draw itlike this?
And then another light bulb wentoff and it was probably the
biggest one of my life and itwas, oh my gosh, what if I
became an architect first, if Ibecame our second?
Like if I became an architect,I would get the clients first
(06:43):
and then I could fold them intobuilding clients like I would
make too many two times, youknow.
And then I don't even thinkabout real estate development
until college, and then that waslike sort of a third light bulb
I was like once I got intoarchitecture school and finished
that I was like, well,shouldn't I be a developer too?
So that's what's kind of led meto be this serial entrepreneur
and trying to have a verticallyintegrated design, build and
(07:03):
ultimately develop firm.
And that's why we do what we do.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Outstanding, outstanding.
So you go to tech school, yougo to college, and then what
comes next after that?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Oh, big letdown, Big layoff, yeah.
So I graduated at the top of myclass in architecture school.
I won the Peter F McKinseyAward at North Dakota State,
which is?
It basically says you are thetop of my class in architecture
school.
I won the Peter F McKinseyAward at North Dakota State,
which is?
It basically says you are thetop graduating student with a
master's degree and you have thebest thesis and all this stuff.
So I was just like cloud nine.
I was even being recruited byMIT.
I declined to go to MIT becauseI was like one of my professors
(07:39):
was like you got to go practice, Otherwise you're just going to
be an academic your whole life.
And I know that's not what youdon't want to do, Lance, Like
you want to be this trifectathing.
So I applied to jobs in Oregon,I applied to jobs in Montana
and I applied to jobs inColorado because I just wanted
to be in the Rocky Mountainregion.
I just the mountains are likemy calling and fishing and all
(08:01):
the other outdoor stuff I do,and so I got one interview in
Oregon.
It went okay.
They didn't hire no interviewsin Montana.
I had seven in Colorado.
So my fiance at the time and I,we left Fargo on that spring
break to come out and do all theinterviews.
(08:21):
It was 70 below.
When we left Fargo, NorthDakota, with the windchill, and
then it was 70 above in Colorado, and this was like March, like
kind of right now, and I stayedwith my aunt and I was like why,
how come you guys haven't toldus about this weather?
And they're like that's thesecret of the whole thing.
So I interviewed all over thestate Aspen, Denver, Boulder,
(08:43):
all over the whole state and wegot an offer in Aspen.
My wife said no at the time.
I'm glad she did too.
She's like we're not raisingkids in Aspen.
I was like that's totally fair.
And then, but there was a firm Ireally liked in Boulder that I
landed with and I didn't get ajob right away.
Actually, I graduated and I hadto keep pestering them and I
(09:05):
finally got a job in October of2008.
But it only lasted nine monthsBecause if any of your I'm sure
your listeners are savvy to theextent that they remember the
Great Recession and that'sexactly what happened.
So it lasted about nine months.
The Great Recession hit 50% ofarchitects, engineers, uh,
contractors were laid off duringthat time.
(09:26):
It was just completelydevastating to one of the
biggest uh industries in americaright home building or just
building in general and um, andI was laid off by these, by
these two guys that I justreally learned a lot of lessons
from, because they were justawful business owners.
So that's when I decided tofire the man is when I was so
(09:48):
hurt and dejected.
I just never wanted to putmyself in the position of being
vulnerable like that again withmy employment, especially with
my children relying on me, mywife relying on me.
I just vowed from that day like, not only am I going to never
have to lay myself off again,but I've had F9 Productions for
(10:08):
15 years and we've had nolayoffs, Because we're positive
reactionaries in the way we'vebuilt our business compared to
how those guys built theirbusiness which, by the way, is
now defunct like completely fellapart.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
One thing I want to call out about your response
which I really really like wasthe people that were employing
you I'm paraphrasing were greatexamples of not how to run a
business, and I think whenpeople think about role models,
they often think of positiverole models, which are important
, but I would argue thatnegative role models, or people
(10:42):
that show you the path not totake, are equally as important.
And so what have been some ofthose you know, as you've
started F9 and have beensuccessfully running it?
What have been some of thoselessons that you've brought with
you?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
you know, number one is just pick up the phone and
don't be actually.
I would say this let me back up.
Number one is don't be afraidto actually lean into the fact
that having an architecture firmis a business Like I really
can't emphasize that enough that, like there's so many
architects out there that arethat insist on it being much
(11:21):
more of an art than a business,right, and it's all focused on
the design and what they can dodesign-wise what's going to be
pretty, what's going to lookgood, what's going to make them
look good, and it might not evenbe functional, right of what
they're designing for theirfolks.
They're so focused on that theydon't focus on customer service
almost whatsoever.
So one of the things that Inoticed right away in reaction
(11:45):
to not only having been employedby those guys but then
freelancing for some otherarchitects, and then, once we
started our business, justhearing the reaction of the
public like they would send usan email, they would find us
online or something we used toactually use Craigslist to
advertise it was fantastic,believe it or not.
Especially during the GreatRecession, people are looking
(12:06):
for deals and we were like, hey,as long as we figure out how to
still make money and give thema quote-unquote deal compared to
the next one.
Where's the harm here?
And the reaction we would getwhen we would.
It was so crazy, David.
They would call us or email usand let's say we missed the call
or we missed the email.
It was like we would try to.
We always made a rule.
It was like get back to themwithin one hour.
(12:27):
If not, if that's not possible,24 hours or less, and we pick.
We usually do the one hour,within one hour or almost
immediately, and it wasoverwhelming.
Over and over again it was likeoh my God, thank you for calling
me back.
You're like the 15th architectI've called and nobody will
answer the phone.
So, honestly, this is the mostfundamental thing you would
(12:48):
think of.
So I'm just like so gratefulfor all those architects that
are still doing a really, reallybad job of just picking up the
phone, responding to the text,responding to the email and like
, what a layup for me.
Like what a layup for me.
I really live and die by this,the law of polarity, where it's
like there's a negative thingthat's going to happen in your
life or that you see happeningin the environment you are.
(13:11):
And in order to balance thatout, there has to be a positive,
Like it's an actual law ofphysics, right?
So I'm always looking for thosekind of openings, especially
when we first formed F9.
And how can we be positivereactionaries to all that
negative stuff that ended upgetting us laid off and ending
up having us firing the firm?
(13:31):
And one of the ways we do thatis we have these nine
foundations, these ninefoundational principles Be
brilliant at the basics, modelit like it gets built.
Training is a force multiplier.
Communicate, uh, is our fourthone.
Serve the client, thecontractor, the city, take
extreme ownership, build theworld, deliver valuable to be
valuable and then have fun isthe last one.
(13:53):
But you didn't even hear theword design there, right?
You didn't hear the word likearchitect.
It's all about customer serviceI like it.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I like it so so.
So who does F9,?
What would a typical clientlook like?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Your typical.
We actually have a pretty goodrange of clients.
We have a lot of first-timefolks that are going to build
their house for their first time, do their first addition, a lot
of first-time developers, a lotof first-time business owners
are opening up that first cakeshop, their first dog
accessories shop or somethinglike that, and we really like
(14:29):
those kinds of clients.
They end up being repeatclients after a while but we
like those clients because we'reyoung, energetic, we're fun and
we try to be the best listenerswe can.
I mean 90% of the first salesmeetings that I have with a meet
and greet with a potentialclient 90, 95% of the meeting is
me just listening, taking notes, being empathetic and trying to
(14:52):
understand how we can solvetheir problems.
And at the very, very end isthe only time I ever start
talking about us and it's likebut I am phrasing it in a way of
like here's how we can help you.
I've listened to everything andhere's how we can make that
sort of thing happen.
We do have some veterandevelopers for sure that hire us
(15:13):
to do, you know, pretty big,substantial developments.
Right now there's a 75 townhome project, multifamily
project in the town weheadquartered in that we're
working on right now.
We're about halfway through thedesign process, but that's kind
of the usual mix of who we'reworking with.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Okay, now put yourself in the shoes of it.
Was Bruce, right?
Yes, okay, so you've now becomea Bruce, and envision a young
Lance comes in and is interestedin starting an architecture
firm.
What would be some guidingprinciples or things that you
(15:51):
would share with a young Lance,based on your experiences of
building and scaling F9?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
If you can't sell, you shouldn't even try to do
this, because it's such acritical part.
It's like my business partnerand I that is, the majority of
our job is out there.
We're out there prospecting.
I'm doing media interviews likethis.
I'm talking to local newspapers.
I was just on the phone withthe New York Times about two or
(16:20):
three hours ago, about two orthree hours ago, and we're
always looking for inroads abouthow we can get our name out
there, how we can get in frontof people, how we can help
people, and especially in anenvironment right now which the
economy is pretty flat, I willtell you it's not hot anymore
like it was when they printedall the money during COVID and
everybody had money andeverybody could build and
(16:40):
everybody wanted to stay at homeand they all had these home
offices or whatever.
Or they're moving from thecoast inland and you know,
making all that kind of stuffhappen Like the multifamily
sector is pretty dead.
So right now, like it is socritical to it when you get that
inquiry, still follow thatoriginal idea that we had where
(17:02):
it's like I need to get backwith this person immediately.
It doesn't matter how small theproject is.
If it's a project that willstill pay the bills for us right
now, or we're kind of scrappingthrough things and trying to
still not lay people off, thenit's really important that they
feel all those customers, nomatter how small they are, they
(17:22):
feel like the number one.
They feel like they're ournumber one customer.
They feel like they're treatedlike kings and queens and that's
why we have so many five-starreviews on Google.
So that would be.
I never heard any talk aboutbeing a good salesman or good
saleswoman or salesperson incollege, and that is it's so
important.
(17:43):
A good saleswoman orsalesperson in college and that
is it's so important and I thinkeverybody can learn it.
But there has to be like aburning desire to in your belly
and that's why I tell people allthe time like I just posted
this on LinkedIn the other day.
I was like there's three times.
There's people ask me all thetime like when's the best time
to start a business?
And I go Great Depression.
They're like what?
I'm?
Like why not?
Well, you started ours in theGreat Recession.
(18:05):
It put us in a corner of acorner of a corner.
We were super hungry every day.
We had to move forward.
There was no option of failure.
It forced us to be supercreative, super lean and all of
that kind of stuff.
So that's the mindset to be in.
Even if you start a businessand you're in a good economy is
sort of a trick yourself intothat Very nice, very nice.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Now, through running your business, are there any
systems or processes that youfeel like really help with, say,
communication with employees orproject management or anything
that you would you would sharewith the other business owners?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
tuning in today, Well , here's a really nuanced, weird
one that I brought up the otherday on a different show too,
and somebody asked me was it allabout communication?
But the reaction was reallypositive.
I was kind of surprised.
We have a rule at F9 and F14.
And that is, if you're an adminperson so me or Al or two of
(19:05):
the project architects, or, onthe construction side, the
superintendent or the foreman weknow that we are very, very
busy to the point where, like myday is sometimes just so
stacked, I am just it's justmeeting, meeting, meeting,
meeting, meeting, and I can'tjust take a random call meeting,
(19:25):
meeting, meeting and I can'tjust take a random call.
So the rule is is that pleasetext me first and say are you
available for a call?
That's much more manageable,because then, even if I'm
talking to you right now and I'mnot on my phone, but if I was
checking my texts, I could say,hey, I'm in a podcast, I'll hit
you back in 30 minutes, orsomething like that.
So then at least they know, youknow some kind of form of
communication is coming down thepipeline.
Lower level staff have to haveto do the same thing for us as
(19:48):
well, up through the admin level.
So it's a it's text, just sortof a pre, like a hey.
It's like a pre pre call, areyou ready?
Sort of prompt.
It might sound stupidly simple,but man it just.
It saves us so much time andanxiety and helps people be
readily available and respectstheir time.
It doesn't interrupt them.
(20:08):
That's just been somethingwe've developed only in the last
six months.
I like it.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I'll tell you, I deal with the same thing, where my
calendar will be stacked oneafter the other from eight until
five, and I'll get a callmidday, and when I have to call
them back the next day, um, they, you know, I would have loved
to get back to them faster, butif they saw my calendar they'd
(20:34):
understand.
Yeah, and so I like that, Ilike that pro tip.
So, um, let's chat about insidethe firm podcast.
So what was kind of the originstory of starting this?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
you know, al and I are, we're, we're millennials,
is what I like.
Like to say right, it's likekind of millennial, kind of Gen
X, so we're kind of in themiddle right, we're like 1983,
1985 and that weird area and andthe and the reason I'm saying
that is because, uh, that makesus like podcast junkies.
I think our generations, wejust I mean, we're the the Joe
(21:09):
Rogan era, tom Green's theoriginal actually.
I just found that out on hisdocumentary and you know, like
last time I was listening to JoeRogan, ian Carell was on.
It was fantastic and I justlook up to that stuff.
I just love like storytellingand how genuine it was and how
opposite it was of just like theFox News or MSNBC like stupid
(21:29):
soundbites that aren't helpfulfor society or our thinking or
anything.
So NBC, like stupid soundbitesthat aren't helpful for society
or our thinking or anything.
So we were just huge fans firstof all, and but then we got to
in 2017 is when we started itand that had that had been year
seven of F9.
And what happens at year sevenfor any businesses?
Usually, that's when your rateof failure, percentage wise,
(21:52):
almost it shrinks to.
You know, very down to like,down to like a couple of
percentage points.
Most startups fail within thefirst seven years.
And so we got to year seven andwe went oh cool, like I think
we're going to make it, I thinkwe're going to make it.
(22:13):
Really hated the rhetoric at thetime of victimhood that was
being perpetuated in the mediaabout Gen X, millennials, even
now Gen Z of, like the worldstacked against you and the
American dream is dead, and likeyou might as well just give up
and get a government job andlike all of that.
I just hate that.
I hate that so much.
I was like we should tell ourstory because then maybe there's
people that will listen and beinspired.
(22:34):
Like, if anything, I just wantto give back and say like you
can do it too.
Like I want more entrepreneursand good capitalists out there
in America than I want peoplewho are just off the government
dole.
Like I want people that are outthere with skin in the game,
because if they have skin in thegame especially if they end up
having a family like that's adifferent America, that's the
(22:55):
America I want to live in.
So that's why we started thepodcast and we started with
episode zero.
It was, you know, a littleshort little intro and then we
just jumped into like rewindingtime as if we were recording it
in 2010 and telling the wholestory.
And we really do have a garage,a garage story.
And telling the whole story.
And we really do have a garage,a garage, you know story.
We weren't started out ofgarage, but we're definitely out
(23:16):
of my business partner's onebedroom apartment in his dining
room.
Like that's where we startedthe firm, and now I'm sitting in
our actual office building thatwe designed, built and
developed for ourselves andthat's why it's called Inside
the Firm too is we just saidlet's just bring everybody
inside the firm, like I don'tthink anybody's doing this yet
and nobody really was.
There's a couple other copycatpodcasts in the architecture
community that are like that now, which I'm flattered by, where
(23:38):
they're just open vests and theyjust tell how it works.
And we were also reacting.
We created it because we werereacting to most architects.
It's moving in the rightdirection now, but most
architects especially even then,you know, a decade and a half
ago we're just so close to theirbest and so worried and
protectionist.
I'm very much a Genesis 128 guybe fruitful and multiply.
(24:02):
So I don't believe in this.
You know that there's notenough.
There's not enough foreverybody.
It's like the more it seemslike the more you give, the more
you get.
The more positive you put out,the more you attract.
So that's the idea behind thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know this is episode 266.
And I have it's like a PhD ofeducation and you kind of get to
pick your professors.
I love it, and if you were togive me a million dollars
tomorrow to stop podcasting, Iwouldn't take it.
It's so curious, like what'sbeen your experiences with
having your own podcast.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Well, there's ups and downs, you know.
So my experience has beenmostly positive.
I want to clarify too like whenwe first started the show up
until about 2019, would havebeen 2019.
Yeah, 2019.
So that would have been two orthree years where we just did a
(25:13):
Friday show and it was justinside the firm.
It was just me and Al talkingshop and you know we, even when
we did our real estatedevelopment, we talked about the
whole thing.
I mean, like there wastragedies that happened on site
and everything like that.
We had a huge flood and justlaid everything bare and you
know it was like gripping stuffactually.
Like we had like amazing letterscome in from people,
(25:59):
no-transcript most rewarding asof late, because I'm just
learning from people and there'sbeen so many times when I'll
have like an author on, that Ithink is going to be interesting
and sure enough they turn to beinteresting and they'll get
like halfway through the episodeand they'll go I just bought
(26:19):
your book on Amazon and then thebook will change my life.
You know there's been a coupleof those that have happened to,
or like one guy I had on I'm aCatholic and he was like I pray
the rosary every morning andI've been thinking about doing
that and I was like I'm going todo that too.
And then it's been like fouryears in a row of me doing that
almost every morning, and youknow, I'm just changing my life
in a positive way.
And then I started guesting onshows like this because I felt
(26:42):
like I had more to share, justas sort of a public figure and
you know, getting to like thesecond seven years of everything
.
So it's just been likeremarkably positive, even though
downloads go up and down.
And it's not so much about that.
I think it's about networking,getting to know people, and you
start to.
(27:02):
You just keep growing everysingle time you do an interview,
whether it's with somebody likeyou or I'm hosting one, or even
if it's just me and Al talking.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, that's awesome, that's really cool and we are a
podcast generation.
I would say we're probablyaround a similar age and I
caught that Tom Greendocumentary too and it's special
.
I got a mule, which is awesome.
Yeah, it was really coolhearing like the switchboard
that he had and he was a reallyearly adopter and without Tom
(27:35):
Green, there's no Joe Rogan anddude it like.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I was just so reminded about how much I love
that guy and when I was watchingthat I was like, oh what I just
, yeah, I.
We used to do Tom Green videos,me and my buddies.
You know it was hilarious.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yes, yeah, I, he was outstanding, so that's cool that
we both saw that.
So, um, let's talk aboutlongmont community gardens and
share a little bit about that.
And and I'm particularlyinterested in there are there
(28:12):
are often times when you'represented with a idea that's
outside of your core businessand it may be something great
like a community garden and butit also can take up some time in
real estate from your corefocus, and so can you talk about
that venture and how that pairsup with running a business
(28:54):
harmony and it just soundsbetter to me Because when I hear
balance, it's like an image ofa scale pops up in my head and I
go, oh, I'm trading one for theother and it's like, what about
a balance?
Speaker 3 (29:00):
So the reason I'm starting the answer in that way
is I this summer, this lastsummer girl I was dating she's
an architect too and she askedme one night how did my day go?
And I told her and here's myday.
My day was I came over to theoffice and it had some staff
meetings and then I jumped on mymountain bike with my backpack
(29:22):
and I went and visited both mygardens and harvested vegetables
and then I went back to thehouse and made a salad from the
garden and then I went back tothe office and then I went and
that was my day.
It was like a beautiful,harmonious day, like it was
everything.
And I'm an entrepreneur who'sself-employed, so I can do that
kind of have that kind offlexibility.
(29:43):
But that's kind of how it's beenwith the garden, because I will
have my architects.
We volunteer some of their timeto do some of the design work
in leading up to going after thegrant that we just got awarded
last year with the USDA it was$86,000.
We were able to double the sizeof the community garden,
(30:03):
actually create a whole nothercommunity garden in town.
My carpenters end up helping.
We donate some of their timeand they end up helping fill the
beds and make the raised bedsand all that kind of good stuff.
And then just all my skillsjust of being an architect, a
builder, a developer, somebodywho's well read and written they
(30:24):
can go after those grants andget them.
That's it's actually beenreally seamless.
It's a lot of work for sure,especially since I've been
drinking water from a fire hoselately, trying to finish up the
expansions as we head intogardening season.
And then, overall, it's alwaysbeen my goal to be A good
capitalist, not one that just Isconcentrated purely on profit
(30:48):
For sake of profit, but likeprofit For sake of people too,
and this was one of my ways ofgiving back to the community.
That like helped grow me andgrow F9 and embraced us, and
that's really what LongmontCommunity Gardens has sort of
become.
So I, just when I gotapproached to take over the
gardens in 2020, I'd beengardening there for about 10
(31:11):
years and the original nonprofitsaid hey, how do you feel about
taking over, I go, this is whatI wanted.
The whole time is my ownnonprofit.
So it was just went hand inhand and I mean I was already
primed to do it as anentrepreneur.
The paperwork was easy to me.
Everybody else it wasintimidating.
I was like no, no, no, I gotthis, so that's how it's been.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
That's awesome.
That's awesome, all right.
Well, this has been anoutstanding interview.
At the end of every interview,we have something called the
fire round.
It's four questions we askevery guest Are you ready for
the fire round?
Yes, sir, outstanding, what isyour?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
favorite book, marcus Aurelius' Meditations.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
All right.
What are your hobbies?
Fishing, I'm addicted.
Very nice.
What is one thing you do notmiss about working for the man?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Oh man being subject to their poor decisions.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
And final question what is one thing that sets
apart successful entrepreneursfrom those who give up, fail or
never get started Discipline.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Discipline equals freedom.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I like it, jocko, very good, very good.
Well, lance, thank you so muchfor your time today and looking
forward to staying in touch.
Yeah, thanks, david.
Thanks for having me on.
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast, a
show for anyone who wants to betheir own boss.
If you sit in a cubicle everyday and know you are capable of
more, then join us.
This show will help you build abusiness and grow your passive
income streams in just a fewshort hours per day.
And now your hosts serialentrepreneurs David Shomer and
(00:20):
Ken Wilson.
Entrepreneurs David Shomer andKen Wilson.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome back to the Firing the man podcast, a show
where we bring you the realstory, strategies and insights
from entrepreneurs who havetaken control of their own
destiny.
Today, we have a powerhouse ofa guest joining us Lance Syko.
Lance is an architect,entrepreneur and educator who,
along with his business partner,alex Gore, co-founded F9
(00:48):
Productions, a top-tier designbuild firm in Longmont, colorado
.
With a background spanningarchitecture, construction and
business, lance has been at theforefront of creating innovative
, high-quality designs in bothresidential and commercial
spaces.
Beyond running a successfulfirm, lance is deeply committed
(01:09):
to sustainability as thepresident of Longmont Community
Gardens, promoting greeninitiatives and community
engagement.
He also co-hosts Inside theFirm podcast, where he shares
hard-earned lessons on scalingarchitecture firms,
entrepreneurship and navigatingthe business world.
In today's episode, we dive intoLance's journey from building a
(01:30):
thriving architecture firm tohis passion for business,
community and sustainability.
If you're an entrepreneur,business owner or someone
looking to fire the man andbuild something of your own,
this is an episode you will notwant to miss.
Let's get into it, lance.
Welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks for having me,david, absolutely.
So, to start things off, canyou share with the audience your
(01:54):
transition from architectureand building to a thriving
design build firm?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, I'm 42.
My story starts when I was 13,growing up in Northwest North
Dakota.
I grew up between a sugar beetfarm and a cattle ranch and on
the sugar beet farm I went outto go get my first real job,
which was like working with mydad irrigating sugar beets, and
I lasted about a week.
He and I just didn't get alongand I said I had a replacement,
even ready to like.
My best friend Chris was.
I was like hey Dad, I had areplacement, even ready to like.
(02:23):
My best friend Chris was.
I was like hey, dad, I'm notgoing to do this anymore.
I, you know I don't like it,it's not for me, but Chris was
happy to take my job.
Chris took my job and he goes.
My dad was like well, you got todo something.
I'm like, yeah, of course.
Like I want money for schoolclothes Cause dad wouldn't buy
me the cool Jordans and stufflike that.
So I called his best friend upwho was a general contractor,
(02:44):
his name was Bruce, asked himfor a job and I said I'll do
anything and he goes Well, youcan be my gopher.
And I was like cool.
And he was like yeah, I pay$7.25 an hour.
And I was like what's a gopher?
And he goes oh, you're going togo for this, Go for that.
When you're done going for thethings, then you can get with
the big boys and learn how toroof.
And I was the best dang gopherhe ever had.
I just instantly fell in lovewith the whole industry right
(03:06):
away.
I love the camaraderie.
I love even the catcalling,just kind of that environment.
It was just rough, gruff guysand I was a skinny 13-year-old
kid and I wanted to get musclesand it was real hard work but it
was so rewarding because yougot to see the roof taken off in
the morning, put it back on thenext day.
But it was so rewarding becauseyou got to see the roof taken
off in the morning, put it backon the next day.
(03:26):
About halfway through thesummer Bruce saw something in me
that he didn't see in maybeanybody else that he ever hired
before and I think it was justenthusiasm and actually loving
the job and being curious abouteverything.
And he says so he pulled measide one day and he goes.
You know, I pay you $7.25 anhour.
What do you think I charge thecustomers?
I pay you $7.25 an hour.
(03:46):
What do you think I charge thecustomers.
I go $7.25 an hour and helaughed.
And he laughed and I was like Iwas kind of embarrassed and he
goes no, no.
And then he explained howservice-based businesses work
right, especially if you'reemploying people.
There's usually a two or threeor four I would, I pay them.
You know, I'm charging thecustomer two or three, four
times, like you're what I payyou per hour.
And I go oh, why?
(04:07):
I mean that seems, are youripping them off?
And he goes no, no, no, no, no.
This is this.
And he explained profit,overhead, downtime, you know,
going after work, the whole.
He explained everything to meand I just completely
transformed my brain that day.
And then I had another epiphanyand the sister epiphany to that
(04:28):
was I had the rich dad, poor dadexperience, without even
knowing who Reaper RobertKiyosaki was, and I only read
the book, maybe about 10 yearsago.
But after I read the book Iwent oh my gosh, I had the rich
dad, poor dad experience,because Bruce had almost no
anxiety when it came to moneyand that's all my mother and
father had was anxiety and theyhad a cope, even when I was
(04:49):
growing up, and it was havingmoney, they would say having
money isn't everything.
And I hated that.
I just hated hearing that.
I was like what a cope.
So that's how you're going tolive your life.
And then my favorite rapperabout 10 years ago, kanye West
west, said finish the sentencefor me.
And he goes having money isn'teverything, not having it is.
And I was like, oh, that's whatI've been waiting for.
(05:11):
Like I thank you and uh, and soI go.
Well, I said so well, well,bruce, how do I?
At the end of the summer, I waslike, how do I become you?
Like, how do I become a generalcontractor?
And he goes.
And it was one of the probablybravest things maybe the guys
ever said.
Like it was such a beautifullyconfident thing to say Because I
(05:32):
even think about it as me as anemployer, to say what he said,
which was well, you don't workfor me next summer, you can work
for somebody else.
And then you work for somebodyelse and work for somebody else.
You need to learn all thedifferent trades so you can be a
general contractor.
And he knew how good of aworker I was too, so for him to
say that was like what afatherly moment.
I mean, that's just like Ithought it was so beautiful in
hindsight.
So that's what I did From 13 to21,.
(05:57):
I went.
I wanted to be a builder first,so I worked all those different
trades, went to tech school forbuilding construction technology
in Wahpeton, north Dakota, andby the end of and when, when I
went to tech school was like thefirst time I ever liked school
and all of a sudden I had achoice of what I wanted to do
and I was.
I was getting straight A's andgetting all these scholarships
and like monetizing going toschool.
It was amazing.
So I get to the end of my stintthere, my two year stint and
(06:21):
our capstone project was we hadto build a house with our team
and I started looking at theblueprints and I was like, why
did the architect like draw itlike this?
And then another light bulb wentoff and it was probably the
biggest one of my life and itwas, oh my gosh, what if I
became an architect first, if Ibecame our second?
Like if I became an architect,I would get the clients first
(06:43):
and then I could fold them intobuilding clients like I would
make too many two times, youknow.
And then I don't even thinkabout real estate development
until college, and then that waslike sort of a third light bulb
I was like once I got intoarchitecture school and finished
that I was like, well,shouldn't I be a developer too?
So that's what's kind of led meto be this serial entrepreneur
and trying to have a verticallyintegrated design, build and
(07:03):
ultimately develop firm.
And that's why we do what we do.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Outstanding, outstanding.
So you go to tech school, yougo to college, and then what
comes next after that?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Oh, big letdown, Big layoff, yeah.
So I graduated at the top of myclass in architecture school.
I won the Peter F McKinseyAward at North Dakota State,
which is?
It basically says you are thetop of my class in architecture
school.
I won the Peter F McKinseyAward at North Dakota State,
which is?
It basically says you are thetop graduating student with a
master's degree and you have thebest thesis and all this stuff.
So I was just like cloud nine.
I was even being recruited byMIT.
I declined to go to MIT becauseI was like one of my professors
(07:39):
was like you got to go practice, Otherwise you're just going to
be an academic your whole life.
And I know that's not what youdon't want to do, Lance, Like
you want to be this trifectathing.
So I applied to jobs in Oregon,I applied to jobs in Montana
and I applied to jobs inColorado because I just wanted
to be in the Rocky Mountainregion.
I just the mountains are likemy calling and fishing and all
(08:01):
the other outdoor stuff I do,and so I got one interview in
Oregon.
It went okay.
They didn't hire no interviewsin Montana.
I had seven in Colorado.
So my fiance at the time and I,we left Fargo on that spring
break to come out and do all theinterviews.
(08:21):
It was 70 below.
When we left Fargo, NorthDakota, with the windchill, and
then it was 70 above in Colorado, and this was like March, like
kind of right now, and I stayedwith my aunt and I was like why,
how come you guys haven't toldus about this weather?
And they're like that's thesecret of the whole thing.
So I interviewed all over thestate Aspen, Denver, Boulder,
(08:43):
all over the whole state and wegot an offer in Aspen.
My wife said no at the time.
I'm glad she did too.
She's like we're not raisingkids in Aspen.
I was like that's totally fair.
And then, but there was a firm Ireally liked in Boulder that I
landed with and I didn't get ajob right away.
Actually, I graduated and I hadto keep pestering them and I
(09:05):
finally got a job in October of2008.
But it only lasted nine monthsBecause if any of your I'm sure
your listeners are savvy to theextent that they remember the
Great Recession and that'sexactly what happened.
So it lasted about nine months.
The Great Recession hit 50% ofarchitects, engineers, uh,
contractors were laid off duringthat time.
(09:26):
It was just completelydevastating to one of the
biggest uh industries in americaright home building or just
building in general and um, andI was laid off by these, by
these two guys that I justreally learned a lot of lessons
from, because they were justawful business owners.
So that's when I decided tofire the man is when I was so
(09:48):
hurt and dejected.
I just never wanted to putmyself in the position of being
vulnerable like that again withmy employment, especially with
my children relying on me, mywife relying on me.
I just vowed from that day like, not only am I going to never
have to lay myself off again,but I've had F9 Productions for
(10:08):
15 years and we've had nolayoffs, Because we're positive
reactionaries in the way we'vebuilt our business compared to
how those guys built theirbusiness which, by the way, is
now defunct like completely fellapart.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
One thing I want to call out about your response
which I really really like wasthe people that were employing
you I'm paraphrasing were greatexamples of not how to run a
business, and I think whenpeople think about role models,
they often think of positiverole models, which are important
, but I would argue thatnegative role models, or people
(10:42):
that show you the path not totake, are equally as important.
And so what have been some ofthose you know, as you've
started F9 and have beensuccessfully running it?
What have been some of thoselessons that you've brought with
you?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
you know, number one is just pick up the phone and
don't be actually.
I would say this let me back up.
Number one is don't be afraidto actually lean into the fact
that having an architecture firmis a business Like I really
can't emphasize that enough that, like there's so many
architects out there that arethat insist on it being much
(11:21):
more of an art than a business,right, and it's all focused on
the design and what they can dodesign-wise what's going to be
pretty, what's going to lookgood, what's going to make them
look good, and it might not evenbe functional, right of what
they're designing for theirfolks.
They're so focused on that theydon't focus on customer service
almost whatsoever.
So one of the things that Inoticed right away in reaction
(11:45):
to not only having been employedby those guys but then
freelancing for some otherarchitects, and then, once we
started our business, justhearing the reaction of the
public like they would send usan email, they would find us
online or something we used toactually use Craigslist to
advertise it was fantastic,believe it or not.
Especially during the GreatRecession, people are looking
(12:06):
for deals and we were like, hey,as long as we figure out how to
still make money and give thema quote-unquote deal compared to
the next one.
Where's the harm here?
And the reaction we would getwhen we would.
It was so crazy, David.
They would call us or email usand let's say we missed the call
or we missed the email.
It was like we would try to.
We always made a rule.
It was like get back to themwithin one hour.
(12:27):
If not, if that's not possible,24 hours or less, and we pick.
We usually do the one hour,within one hour or almost
immediately, and it wasoverwhelming.
Over and over again it was likeoh my God, thank you for calling
me back.
You're like the 15th architectI've called and nobody will
answer the phone.
So, honestly, this is the mostfundamental thing you would
(12:48):
think of.
So I'm just like so gratefulfor all those architects that
are still doing a really, reallybad job of just picking up the
phone, responding to the text,responding to the email and like
, what a layup for me.
Like what a layup for me.
I really live and die by this,the law of polarity, where it's
like there's a negative thingthat's going to happen in your
life or that you see happeningin the environment you are.
(13:11):
And in order to balance thatout, there has to be a positive,
Like it's an actual law ofphysics, right?
So I'm always looking for thosekind of openings, especially
when we first formed F9.
And how can we be positivereactionaries to all that
negative stuff that ended upgetting us laid off and ending
up having us firing the firm?
(13:31):
And one of the ways we do thatis we have these nine
foundations, these ninefoundational principles Be
brilliant at the basics, modelit like it gets built.
Training is a force multiplier.
Communicate, uh, is our fourthone.
Serve the client, thecontractor, the city, take
extreme ownership, build theworld, deliver valuable to be
valuable and then have fun isthe last one.
(13:53):
But you didn't even hear theword design there, right?
You didn't hear the word likearchitect.
It's all about customer serviceI like it.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I like it so so.
So who does F9,?
What would a typical clientlook like?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Your typical.
We actually have a pretty goodrange of clients.
We have a lot of first-timefolks that are going to build
their house for their first time, do their first addition, a lot
of first-time developers, a lotof first-time business owners
are opening up that first cakeshop, their first dog
accessories shop or somethinglike that, and we really like
(14:29):
those kinds of clients.
They end up being repeatclients after a while but we
like those clients because we'reyoung, energetic, we're fun and
we try to be the best listenerswe can.
I mean 90% of the first salesmeetings that I have with a meet
and greet with a potentialclient 90, 95% of the meeting is
me just listening, taking notes, being empathetic and trying to
(14:52):
understand how we can solvetheir problems.
And at the very, very end isthe only time I ever start
talking about us and it's likebut I am phrasing it in a way of
like here's how we can help you.
I've listened to everything andhere's how we can make that
sort of thing happen.
We do have some veterandevelopers for sure that hire us
(15:13):
to do, you know, pretty big,substantial developments.
Right now there's a 75 townhome project, multifamily
project in the town weheadquartered in that we're
working on right now.
We're about halfway through thedesign process, but that's kind
of the usual mix of who we'reworking with.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Okay, now put yourself in the shoes of it.
Was Bruce, right?
Yes, okay, so you've now becomea Bruce, and envision a young
Lance comes in and is interestedin starting an architecture
firm.
What would be some guidingprinciples or things that you
(15:51):
would share with a young Lance,based on your experiences of
building and scaling F9?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
If you can't sell, you shouldn't even try to do
this, because it's such acritical part.
It's like my business partnerand I that is, the majority of
our job is out there.
We're out there prospecting.
I'm doing media interviews likethis.
I'm talking to local newspapers.
I was just on the phone withthe New York Times about two or
(16:20):
three hours ago, about two orthree hours ago, and we're
always looking for inroads abouthow we can get our name out
there, how we can get in frontof people, how we can help
people, and especially in anenvironment right now which the
economy is pretty flat, I willtell you it's not hot anymore
like it was when they printedall the money during COVID and
everybody had money andeverybody could build and
(16:40):
everybody wanted to stay at homeand they all had these home
offices or whatever.
Or they're moving from thecoast inland and you know,
making all that kind of stuffhappen Like the multifamily
sector is pretty dead.
So right now, like it is socritical to it when you get that
inquiry, still follow thatoriginal idea that we had where
(17:02):
it's like I need to get backwith this person immediately.
It doesn't matter how small theproject is.
If it's a project that willstill pay the bills for us right
now, or we're kind of scrappingthrough things and trying to
still not lay people off, thenit's really important that they
feel all those customers, nomatter how small they are, they
(17:22):
feel like the number one.
They feel like they're ournumber one customer.
They feel like they're treatedlike kings and queens and that's
why we have so many five-starreviews on Google.
So that would be.
I never heard any talk aboutbeing a good salesman or good
saleswoman or salesperson incollege, and that is it's so
important.
(17:43):
A good saleswoman orsalesperson in college and that
is it's so important and I thinkeverybody can learn it.
But there has to be like aburning desire to in your belly
and that's why I tell people allthe time like I just posted
this on LinkedIn the other day.
I was like there's three times.
There's people ask me all thetime like when's the best time
to start a business?
And I go Great Depression.
They're like what?
I'm?
Like why not?
Well, you started ours in theGreat Recession.
(18:05):
It put us in a corner of acorner of a corner.
We were super hungry every day.
We had to move forward.
There was no option of failure.
It forced us to be supercreative, super lean and all of
that kind of stuff.
So that's the mindset to be in.
Even if you start a businessand you're in a good economy is
sort of a trick yourself intothat Very nice, very nice.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Now, through running your business, are there any
systems or processes that youfeel like really help with, say,
communication with employees orproject management or anything
that you would you would sharewith the other business owners?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
tuning in today, Well , here's a really nuanced, weird
one that I brought up the otherday on a different show too,
and somebody asked me was it allabout communication?
But the reaction was reallypositive.
I was kind of surprised.
We have a rule at F9 and F14.
And that is, if you're an adminperson so me or Al or two of
(19:05):
the project architects, or, onthe construction side, the
superintendent or the foreman weknow that we are very, very
busy to the point where, like myday is sometimes just so
stacked, I am just it's justmeeting, meeting, meeting,
meeting, meeting, and I can'tjust take a random call meeting,
(19:25):
meeting, meeting and I can'tjust take a random call.
So the rule is is that pleasetext me first and say are you
available for a call?
That's much more manageable,because then, even if I'm
talking to you right now and I'mnot on my phone, but if I was
checking my texts, I could say,hey, I'm in a podcast, I'll hit
you back in 30 minutes, orsomething like that.
So then at least they know, youknow some kind of form of
communication is coming down thepipeline.
Lower level staff have to haveto do the same thing for us as
(19:48):
well, up through the admin level.
So it's a it's text, just sortof a pre, like a hey.
It's like a pre pre call, areyou ready?
Sort of prompt.
It might sound stupidly simple,but man it just.
It saves us so much time andanxiety and helps people be
readily available and respectstheir time.
It doesn't interrupt them.
(20:08):
That's just been somethingwe've developed only in the last
six months.
I like it.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I'll tell you, I deal with the same thing, where my
calendar will be stacked oneafter the other from eight until
five, and I'll get a callmidday, and when I have to call
them back the next day, um, they, you know, I would have loved
to get back to them faster, butif they saw my calendar they'd
(20:34):
understand.
Yeah, and so I like that, Ilike that pro tip.
So, um, let's chat about insidethe firm podcast.
So what was kind of the originstory of starting this?
Speaker 3 (20:49):
you know, al and I are, we're, we're millennials,
is what I like.
Like to say right, it's likekind of millennial, kind of Gen
X, so we're kind of in themiddle right, we're like 1983,
1985 and that weird area and andthe and the reason I'm saying
that is because, uh, that makesus like podcast junkies.
I think our generations, wejust I mean, we're the the Joe
(21:09):
Rogan era, tom Green's theoriginal actually.
I just found that out on hisdocumentary and you know, like
last time I was listening to JoeRogan, ian Carell was on.
It was fantastic and I justlook up to that stuff.
I just love like storytellingand how genuine it was and how
opposite it was of just like theFox News or MSNBC like stupid
(21:29):
soundbites that aren't helpfulfor society or our thinking or
anything.
So NBC, like stupid soundbitesthat aren't helpful for society
or our thinking or anything.
So we were just huge fans firstof all, and but then we got to
in 2017 is when we started itand that had that had been year
seven of F9.
And what happens at year sevenfor any businesses?
Usually, that's when your rateof failure, percentage wise,
(21:52):
almost it shrinks to.
You know, very down to like,down to like a couple of
percentage points.
Most startups fail within thefirst seven years.
And so we got to year seven andwe went oh cool, like I think
we're going to make it, I thinkwe're going to make it.
(22:13):
Really hated the rhetoric at thetime of victimhood that was
being perpetuated in the mediaabout Gen X, millennials, even
now Gen Z of, like the worldstacked against you and the
American dream is dead, and likeyou might as well just give up
and get a government job andlike all of that.
I just hate that.
I hate that so much.
I was like we should tell ourstory because then maybe there's
people that will listen and beinspired.
(22:34):
Like, if anything, I just wantto give back and say like you
can do it too.
Like I want more entrepreneursand good capitalists out there
in America than I want peoplewho are just off the government
dole.
Like I want people that are outthere with skin in the game,
because if they have skin in thegame especially if they end up
having a family like that's adifferent America, that's the
(22:55):
America I want to live in.
So that's why we started thepodcast and we started with
episode zero.
It was, you know, a littleshort little intro and then we
just jumped into like rewindingtime as if we were recording it
in 2010 and telling the wholestory.
And we really do have a garage,a garage story.
And telling the whole story.
And we really do have a garage,a garage, you know story.
We weren't started out ofgarage, but we're definitely out
(23:16):
of my business partner's onebedroom apartment in his dining
room.
Like that's where we startedthe firm, and now I'm sitting in
our actual office building thatwe designed, built and
developed for ourselves andthat's why it's called Inside
the Firm too is we just saidlet's just bring everybody
inside the firm, like I don'tthink anybody's doing this yet
and nobody really was.
There's a couple other copycatpodcasts in the architecture
community that are like that now, which I'm flattered by, where
(23:38):
they're just open vests and theyjust tell how it works.
And we were also reacting.
We created it because we werereacting to most architects.
It's moving in the rightdirection now, but most
architects especially even then,you know, a decade and a half
ago we're just so close to theirbest and so worried and
protectionist.
I'm very much a Genesis 128 guybe fruitful and multiply.
(24:02):
So I don't believe in this.
You know that there's notenough.
There's not enough foreverybody.
It's like the more it seemslike the more you give, the more
you get.
The more positive you put out,the more you attract.
So that's the idea behind thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know this is episode 266.
And I have it's like a PhD ofeducation and you kind of get to
pick your professors.
I love it, and if you were togive me a million dollars
tomorrow to stop podcasting, Iwouldn't take it.
It's so curious, like what'sbeen your experiences with
having your own podcast.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Well, there's ups and downs, you know.
So my experience has beenmostly positive.
I want to clarify too like whenwe first started the show up
until about 2019, would havebeen 2019.
Yeah, 2019.
So that would have been two orthree years where we just did a
(25:13):
Friday show and it was justinside the firm.
It was just me and Al talkingshop and you know we, even when
we did our real estatedevelopment, we talked about the
whole thing.
I mean, like there wastragedies that happened on site
and everything like that.
We had a huge flood and justlaid everything bare and you
know it was like gripping stuffactually.
Like we had like amazing letterscome in from people,
(25:59):
no-transcript most rewarding asof late, because I'm just
learning from people and there'sbeen so many times when I'll
have like an author on, that Ithink is going to be interesting
and sure enough they turn to beinteresting and they'll get
like halfway through the episodeand they'll go I just bought
(26:19):
your book on Amazon and then thebook will change my life.
You know there's been a coupleof those that have happened to,
or like one guy I had on I'm aCatholic and he was like I pray
the rosary every morning andI've been thinking about doing
that and I was like I'm going todo that too.
And then it's been like fouryears in a row of me doing that
almost every morning, and youknow, I'm just changing my life
in a positive way.
And then I started guesting onshows like this because I felt
(26:42):
like I had more to share, justas sort of a public figure and
you know, getting to like thesecond seven years of everything
.
So it's just been likeremarkably positive, even though
downloads go up and down.
And it's not so much about that.
I think it's about networking,getting to know people, and you
start to.
(27:02):
You just keep growing everysingle time you do an interview,
whether it's with somebody likeyou or I'm hosting one, or even
if it's just me and Al talking.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, that's awesome, that's really cool and we are a
podcast generation.
I would say we're probablyaround a similar age and I
caught that Tom Greendocumentary too and it's special
.
I got a mule, which is awesome.
Yeah, it was really coolhearing like the switchboard
that he had and he was a reallyearly adopter and without Tom
(27:35):
Green, there's no Joe Rogan anddude it like.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
I was just so reminded about how much I love
that guy and when I was watchingthat I was like, oh what I just
, yeah, I.
We used to do Tom Green videos,me and my buddies.
You know it was hilarious.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yes, yeah, I, he was outstanding, so that's cool that
we both saw that.
So, um, let's talk aboutlongmont community gardens and
share a little bit about that.
And and I'm particularlyinterested in there are there
(28:12):
are often times when you'represented with a idea that's
outside of your core businessand it may be something great
like a community garden and butit also can take up some time in
real estate from your corefocus, and so can you talk about
that venture and how that pairsup with running a business
(28:54):
harmony and it just soundsbetter to me Because when I hear
balance, it's like an image ofa scale pops up in my head and I
go, oh, I'm trading one for theother and it's like, what about
a balance?
Speaker 3 (29:00):
So the reason I'm starting the answer in that way
is I this summer, this lastsummer girl I was dating she's
an architect too and she askedme one night how did my day go?
And I told her and here's myday.
My day was I came over to theoffice and it had some staff
meetings and then I jumped on mymountain bike with my backpack
(29:22):
and I went and visited both mygardens and harvested vegetables
and then I went back to thehouse and made a salad from the
garden and then I went back tothe office and then I went and
that was my day.
It was like a beautiful,harmonious day, like it was
everything.
And I'm an entrepreneur who'sself-employed, so I can do that
kind of have that kind offlexibility.
(29:43):
But that's kind of how it's beenwith the garden, because I will
have my architects.
We volunteer some of their timeto do some of the design work
in leading up to going after thegrant that we just got awarded
last year with the USDA it was$86,000.
We were able to double the sizeof the community garden,
(30:03):
actually create a whole nothercommunity garden in town.
My carpenters end up helping.
We donate some of their timeand they end up helping fill the
beds and make the raised bedsand all that kind of good stuff.
And then just all my skillsjust of being an architect, a
builder, a developer, somebodywho's well read and written they
(30:24):
can go after those grants andget them.
That's it's actually beenreally seamless.
It's a lot of work for sure,especially since I've been
drinking water from a fire hoselately, trying to finish up the
expansions as we head intogardening season.
And then, overall, it's alwaysbeen my goal to be A good
capitalist, not one that just Isconcentrated purely on profit
(30:48):
For sake of profit, but likeprofit For sake of people too,
and this was one of my ways ofgiving back to the community.
That like helped grow me andgrow F9 and embraced us, and
that's really what LongmontCommunity Gardens has sort of
become.
So I, just when I gotapproached to take over the
gardens in 2020, I'd beengardening there for about 10
(31:11):
years and the original nonprofitsaid hey, how do you feel about
taking over, I go, this is whatI wanted.
The whole time is my ownnonprofit.
So it was just went hand inhand and I mean I was already
primed to do it as anentrepreneur.
The paperwork was easy to me.
Everybody else it wasintimidating.
I was like no, no, no, I gotthis, so that's how it's been.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
That's awesome.
That's awesome, all right.
Well, this has been anoutstanding interview.
At the end of every interview,we have something called the
fire round.
It's four questions we askevery guest Are you ready for
the fire round?
Yes, sir, outstanding, what isyour?
Speaker 3 (31:45):
favorite book, marcus Aurelius' Meditations.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
All right.
What are your hobbies?
Fishing, I'm addicted.
Very nice.
What is one thing you do notmiss about working for the man?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Oh man being subject to their poor decisions.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
And final question what is one thing that sets
apart successful entrepreneursfrom those who give up, fail or
never get started Discipline.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Discipline equals freedom.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I like it, jocko, very good, very good.
Well, lance, thank you so muchfor your time today and looking
forward to staying in touch.
Yeah, thanks, david.
Thanks for having me on.
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