How to Get in the CAA Mailroom and other Studio Internships | Lillian Lin

Welcome to episode 8 of The First Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry. 

Today, we bring on Lillian Lin, a recent USC film school graduate who is now working at CAA, the world's largest talent agency. We chat about how she got into the CAA mailroom and other big studio internships, as well as her experience working alongside agents and executives.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 00 (00:00):
Actually, sometimes they prefer if you don't have
that much experience, they areaware of everything that's going
on, even though you assume theyare not.
More people are not expectingto stay at agencies than you
would think.
They co-op studios, execs,places.
This guy wants to do this genrenext year.
Do you have something comingup?

(00:20):
You're allowed to beintroverted, but you also need
to know how to present yourself.
They're not going to try tohide or mask their anger at you
leaving.
They're going take everythingfrom you as soon as possible
because they're like, we careabout our clients, our
materials.
And there are interns who wouldnot be as nice to other
interns.

(00:40):
In today's job market, it's sounpredictable.
Your numbers are going to win,like quantity is going to win.

Speaker 01 (00:46):
Also, I've been told at a company that shall remain
nameless, if your applicationdoes not have a cover letter,
they just throw it out.
Lillian, welcome to the show.

Speaker 00 (00:56):
It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 01 (00:57):
Welcome.
We're so excited to have you.
Just talking about, you know,the corporate side of
filmmaking, right?
You guys are the people whomake the movies happen, really.
Yeah.
Well, first of all, talk alittle bit about your USC
journey.
And you recently graduated.
Walk us through how you gotinto film and how you got into

(01:18):
USC.

Speaker 00 (01:18):
So I stumbled into casting because I saw someone
literally ask me for someone tohelp with their big passion
project full of like USC alumsum so I stepped up I was like
I'm into this field I worked asa producer on like several short
films I was like casting wasfun um and once I joined that I

(01:40):
learned so much just throughdoing it and somehow I got
another project that was evenbigger so it just sort of like I
sort of got casting on myresume by stumbling into it.
But casting actually reallyhelped me get my agency job and
my later casting internship.
So, yeah.

Speaker 01 (02:02):
Yeah, speaking of internships, Sets are great and
a lot of people are hands-on andthey do want to just work on
set, but there's this wholeother sector in entertainment
that's all about representationand all about making deals and
making things happen.
So talk a little bit about yourexperience in that world,
whether it's through internshipsor jobs at production companies

(02:25):
and whatnot.
What was your first step andhow did that inform your
creative process and alsomapping out a career?

Speaker 00 (02:32):
Yeah.
I didn't really have a veryspecific map of my career when I
first started applying tointernships.
Early on, it was just driven bystress, like everyone else
getting one.
If I don't get one, I'm notgoing to find a job.
I feel like we overestimatepeople's exact idea of their
life because sometimes I feellike it's so much chance,

(02:55):
opportunity, and we don't alwaysknow we're set on something
until we've tried it.
I feel like that's why...
like mentors and professorstell us to just be open-minded
about everything because youdon't really know where you're
going to end up in and whereyou're going to be great in.
But yeah, I started applying tointernships when I was It was

(03:16):
the earliest I could as aninternational student because of
all the troubles I'm not goingto bother you with.
But I was basically allowed tostart applying around sophomore
year.
And at first, I got thoseunpaid script coverage
internships.
And luckily, I also found onethat was working for an

(03:37):
independent producer.
And I was doing script coveragefor him.
And I think many of his writerfriends were trying to get into
festivals.
And he actually was so nice.
He paid me.
I'm like, yeah, I guess that'swhat the industry is like right
now.
He was so nice, he paid me.
But yeah, and then after that,I got into another slightly

(04:00):
bigger company that was head byan executive in the industry,
and it was this private personalcompany.
I also mostly did scriptcoverage, but I basically did so
much of the coverage and I reada lot of books that, you know,
the company was considering toadapt.
So I just read so much.

(04:22):
And the company was, it had alittle more resources.
So it was offering like talksand seminars with like writers
and people in the industry.
So that was the first one thatreally felt like an actual job.
And during the same time, I wasapplying for I think actually
it was before I started thatinternship.
I applied in October, I think,to a lot of internships, but

(04:48):
also to CAA.
Because CAA is like, I'm notsure about other agencies, but
CAA has a pretty long timelineof when you have to apply.
And they're pretty specificabout when the, you know, like
what...
place you are in your likeeducational career that you have
to apply so you basically havethe only chance you have is the

(05:09):
summer before you graduate soyou can either be like a rising
senior or you can be someonewho's graduating in December
like me but that's the summeryou are allowed to intern for
them and you have to apply ifyou're applying for let's say
2025 summer you have to apply in2024 October and you're gonna
hear back around like JanuaryFebruary of 2025 and you You're

(05:33):
going to do your interviews andyou are probably going to get an
offer or not around March.
So you're going to hear back byMarch.
So I was doing my springinternship when I heard back
from CAA and that's when Istarted.
So I did for that summer, I didCAA and After CAA, I had one

(05:54):
more semester left in myeducation.
So that fall, I did a castinginternship for Fox.
So that's the general timelinebefore I graduated.

Speaker 01 (06:04):
How did you get your first CAA internship?

Speaker 00 (06:08):
That's pretty crazy.
I have reasons, but I thinkit's the same as us saying...
this is the reason I got intoUSC.
Like you don't really know.
You're like, I guess I did wellin that part, but I don't
really know.
Um, Like, I've heard, like, youneed referrals to even get into
those agencies, but I reallyjust code applied.

(06:29):
I didn't have anybody's name Icould put down.
I tried to do that for otherinternships that I didn't get
in.
So, you know, like, I guess,yeah, there's no rule.
But I think I did pretty wellin my first interview.
I applied and I heard back fromthem that I was going to get an
interview through a phone call.
And I talked to a friend whoactually interned for CAA, like

(06:53):
a year ago so she was offeringme advice on like how to do your
interview well and what CIAspecifically looks for and what
they like to hear so yeah andthen I did my first interview
you always interview first withthe HR department and if they
want to refer you to like aspecific department that's gonna

(07:14):
oversee you then you do yoursecond interview with an agent I
think if you're in like a moretech side or a different side
that your process might be aslightly different but for most
of us it's HR and you proceed toagent or agents but I think the
first round is the mostimportant because when I did my

(07:34):
interviews with agents I feellike they were just trying to
know me like they weren't tryingto judge if I deserve the
internship I think once you passthe first round you are 80%
there so that's the mostimportant one

Speaker 01 (07:49):
yeah did you just see it on the USC job listing
thing

Speaker 00 (07:53):
yeah I don't know, I think I was...
slightly aware of what agenciesdo and I was like I want to try
it and I didn't even havepeople tell me like agencies are
the most important internshipsyou can get like I know that now
but like back then well no youcan still get into the mail room
like there are manyopportunities but yeah like I

(08:16):
didn't even know I was justtrying everything and I did
casting so I thoughtrepresentation would be
something that would be fun totry but yeah I code applied and
I did my interview as well Iguess.
So that's how I got in.

Speaker 01 (08:28):
What was the internship like?

Speaker 00 (08:30):
yeah um it was it was really fun i think it really
just opened my eyes to theindustry like um like many
people would say it's the nexuspoint of the whole entertainment
industry like you you do somuch more and you see so much
more um you know for examplethey have like a motion picture

(08:51):
department and that's separatedinto literary and um talent and
they have like tv they havegames they have They even have
like a philanthropy branch.
Music

Speaker 01 (09:04):
touring?

Speaker 00 (09:05):
Yeah, music touring.
They're

Speaker 01 (09:06):
on the top floor, apparently.

Speaker 00 (09:07):
Yeah.
How do you know

Speaker 01 (09:09):
someone?
Somebody told me.
His name is Gabe Cantillo.
I think you might have met himbecause he mentioned you.
Oh, okay.
But he's also at USC.
I

Speaker 00 (09:17):
had a coffee chat with them earlier.
That's very cool.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's very cool.
But yeah.
And they have like comedy.
So there's so much.
And you, I think one thing theydo very differently with their
internship is like they're verycaring of what, how much their
interns learn.
And they do care a lot aboutlike providing return offers.

(09:38):
They are actually training youto come back to the company.
Like they're not just, we needsomeone to do script coverage
for free.
Right.
yeah so they actually do careabout like making you a better
you know candidate for theircompany so they care about
training you and on the veryfirst day they emphasize that
you should talk to as manypeople as you can they don't

(10:01):
have to be in your departmentthey don't have to be your agent
actually you don't necessarilyhave to just talk to agents it's
even better if you talk totheir assistants because they
are closer to your timeline likethey are very likely also new
grads in the last you know fiveyears and they have basically a
bit more time than the agents,so they can tell you more.

(10:21):
And yeah, so it was verydifferent and very informative.

Speaker 01 (10:28):
What were the tasks you had to do there?

Speaker 00 (10:31):
Yeah, it's different for every department.
I was selected for TV talent.
It was mainly, I started doingsome like avail checks those are
things where yeah yeah you knowum you know so much okay yeah
um so they're basically when umlike a new show or like a new

(10:55):
season of a show or anythinglike basically they're looking
for talent to fill certain rolesand um they get these like they
basically get these lists fromlike other studios asking um The
studios were like, you know,around pitch season or around
like different season when theyhave a new show that will send

(11:16):
these.
um list of roles they'relooking for and sometimes attach
like these are the criteriawe're looking for and they will
send it out to like all agenciesutaca gersh everything and um
they will ask do you havesomeone that's fit for this role
um and the companies will youknow first respond with like

(11:38):
this certain list of like youknow 10 to 20 actors or even
more like and um I think I'mtrying to remember exactly how
it went because it was a whileago.
But for avail checks, that'sbasically because each...
Um, each actor is representedby a team.
I probably should havementioned that earlier, but each

(12:00):
actor is each talent isrepresented by a team at CAA.
That's the specific way theywork.
She's like, we don't want oneagent to be responsible for one
actor.
We want like an actor to have awhole team servicing them.
So they will be sending thislist to the agents, um,
assistants that are responsiblefor the actors.

(12:21):
And you first respond withlike, are they available for
this specific timeline that thefilm or the TV show is shooting.
Because if they're not evenavailable, then, you know, you
don't even need to proceedfurther.
But if they are, sometimes theyalso say tech avail.
That means technicallyavailable.
But, you know, that could besaying they have this season
two, but if it gets canceled,they will be available.

(12:44):
Yeah, so all that kind ofstuff.
So you basically sort of doavail checks because assistants
are busy too.
So you sort of, as an intern,you take over that and you also
learn.
Yeah, and I also did...
like more promotional andmarketing things like looking at
the tv shows that your talentrecently did and um trying to
pick out like their best momentsto work them into like their

(13:07):
promotional materials and ithink there were just like many
other um smaller tasks like ifit's award season you basically
watch the awards and you pickout like the winners that are
also our clients and you likehave to like compile that list
and say okay our clients oncelike you know you basically do
like more smaller tasks but it'samazing for like an intern to

(13:32):
just get a grasp of like whatthe industry is like what the
agency is like even just learnthe names of their clients and
yeah so it was it was pretty fun

Speaker 01 (13:43):
let's say like you know i am not a usc student like
how would you get how wouldsomeone like that get into the
industry an internship like thisyou know

Speaker 00 (13:51):
yeah um i met a lot of the other interns who are
from not even film schools umthere were people from harvard
who are not even in film andthere were also you know people
in like actual like film schoolslike chapman um But there
weren't that many USC students.

(14:13):
There were also people fromliberal arts colleges that were
not known for film.
Just people from all walks oflife.
So I think part of it, it's upto luck.
like getting that firstinterview.
I think referrals can stillhelp, but I did get it without a
referral.
So I mean, there's still achance, even if you don't have

(14:34):
anyone to refer, I would justsay just apply and craft your
resume, craft your cover letter,just be the best self you can
be.
And once you get thatinterview, really talk to
someone who has done it beforeand ask interview tips, do your
best.
And yeah, but they're notlimited to any school or
experience and actuallysometimes they prefer if you

(14:57):
don't have that much experiencei think because someone i'm not
sure how true this is butsomeone has said if you have
already worked for like thebiggest names in the industry
and none of them want you back,then that's showing something
about you.
So that's why they're like, wedon't want you to have like
three previous internship withthe biggest names because maybe

(15:17):
that's showing something.
They don't want you long-term.
So, but I don't know how truethat is.
Yeah.

Speaker 01 (15:23):
Interesting.
What was something like thatwas surprising that you learned
that you didn't expect to learn?
Oh,

Speaker 00 (15:28):
okay.
That's a, that's a difficultquestion.
Let's see.
Um, What's something I wasn'texpecting to learn?
I guess it's not that I wasn'texpecting it, but it really
surprised me just how incrediblysmart and hands-on and aware of

(15:56):
their world that agency peopleare.
They...
Um, I think other companies,you know, sometimes they might
forget about what you're doingbecause you're a little intern,
like they'll check up on you,but you know, you're expected to
like hand in your work and youknow, you're expected to ask
questions whenever you havethem.

(16:17):
Like you should just do yourthings and you get checked up
every once in a while.
I feel like agencies really seehow people remember your names.
They remember what you did andthey are aware of everything
that's going on, even though youassume they are not like they
really pay attention toeverything i think that's how

(16:40):
they are able to succeed it'sjust like who people are at
agencies everyone who stays atan agency is just so incredibly
good at interpersonal skills andi like they always emphasize
like you need to read peoplewell you need to understand
people you need to um it's likeexpect your direct supervisor's

(17:03):
needs before he or she talksabout it.
That's something they reallyemphasize.
And it's so funny because a lotof the very senior agents, when
they're doing lunch with usinterns, they're saying, it's 20
years later I've been at thisagency and I still don't know
what I'm doing.
They will be humble about it,but I feel like there's a
certain truth.

(17:24):
You don't really necessarilyhave to have a particular skill.
It's not like after working 20years, as a data analyst you're
like i know exactly how to usethis like you know software but
they have such amazing likeextraordinary soft skills that
are helping them succeed andsometimes that's like hard to
just put into words that's hardto put onto paper but they're

(17:46):
really good at that and you cantell once you're in that sort of
world

Speaker 01 (17:50):
yeah yeah how do you go about like now because i
know um this might be true mightnot be true but as with every
company there's some form ofhierarchy obviously you've got
the assistants and the internsand then the higher up you got
the agents maybe even thepartners and the ceo of the
company so how do you navigate aworld where there is definitely
some kind of structure but ithink like you said the company

(18:13):
does encourage people who areinterns and to interact with the
people who are on the upperlevel so how do you think the
company handles that hierarchy

Speaker 00 (18:24):
Yeah, I would say not everyone handles it the same
way.
And there is definitely ahierarchy.
But I think as an intern, yousort of get a privilege because
they want you to learn aboutthem.
You are basically their, how doyou say, campus ambassador.

(18:45):
Like, they actually tell youthat on the first day.
Yeah, there's, you know, theywant to give you information.
They want to tell you about howgreat the company is.
Like, you might even besurprised at how much they are
trying to be in their best selfin front of you because you're
that intern, but you're alsothat student who will, you know,
tell all of USC how great CAAis.

(19:07):
So, actually...
Initially, I was like a littleshy about talking to agents
because I did get told by HRthat, you know, try to talk to
more people on your levelbecause that's going to help you
much.
And I sort of took that as, youknow, don't bother agents too
much because if they're not evenlike if they're not in your

(19:29):
department or in too much directyou know relations to you like
you have to like jump throughhurdles just to like get them to
set a time but sort of halfwaythrough my internship I had a
mentor figure in my departmenthe introduced himself to us he
was an agent in TV talent heintroduced us himself to all

(19:49):
three of us TV talent internsand he said let's set a time to
do lunch just you me and myassistant and I was like oh my
god what like that's amazing andhe he like he buys you lunch
like he does all that just toget to know you so and then when
we had lunch he's like whyaren't you talking to more
agents like we want to talk toyou and I would say he's not you

(20:12):
know not all agents are likehim he was extremely nice and
kind and you know willing toshare but he was telling me like
I should try to reach out tomore agents of course still you
know reach out to theirassistant and try to set a time
because their assistants managetheir calendar so don't just
walk up to an agent and be likehey drop everything i want to

(20:33):
talk to you like don't do thatstill be polite and know your
place but you know try to reachout to them and if even if they
don't reply like what are yougoing to lose like they're not
going to hate you because youtry to reach out um so He said,
like, to do your research, showyou are sincere.
You're not going to waste theirtime.
But reach out to as many agentsas you can.
He was like, actually send outan email to six agents today.

(20:55):
Like, that's your homework.
Like, just try to reach out topeople.
And, yeah, he encouraged, like,us to be brave and just reach
out and network.
And, yeah, I forgot what thequestion was.
Oh, no, yeah.
It's

Speaker 01 (21:08):
like, yeah, communicating between, you know,
as an intern, how do you get toit?
But that answers my question inthat it's...
It can be pretty easy

Speaker 00 (21:15):
sometimes.
It can be intimidating for surewhen you're in that world.
But I think you got to be morebold and be polite.
Don't waste your time.
Be sincere.
Do your research.
Be your best self.
And then just talk to them.

Speaker 01 (21:30):
And now, do you see yourself in the next five years,
do you see yourself workingmore in the agency world or do
you want to...
venture into different pathsbecause I think CAA understands
and a lot of other agencies toothat as floaters or whatever,
mailroom clerks, that eventuallyafter a year or two or three,

(21:52):
they might want to, you know,enter into, you know, be a
writer's assistant or producer'sassistant.
So where do you see yourselfinto?
Do you think you'll have adecision after you've kind of
worked some time there, or doyou think you have something in
mind now?

Speaker 00 (22:12):
Yeah.
I want to also address howagencies can be a little
different from studios.
I think with studios, if you'renot on a contract, you actually
become an official employee.
You sort of expect to staythere and get promoted.
I think that's a general pathyou expect with studios.

(22:33):
But with agencies...
I that's something that alsosurprised me that I forgot
earlier but more people are notexpecting to stay at agencies
than you would think like I'mnot saying you should use it as
a jumping board because manypeople still go to agencies and
realize they really love beingan agent and many people are
just exploring and it's also agreat place to start because we

(22:55):
also call it the graduate schoolof entertainment yeah because
you come in with like yourcohort your mailroom people and
they're the same year as you andyou sort of grow together and
you become assistants togetherlike you make great friends so
for many people it's just agreat way to like start your
career when you get out of filmschool but it is true that it

(23:16):
takes a long time from anassistant to an agent there are
also exceptions with like I'veheard some extraordinary people
who signed clients when theywere an assistant and they
immediately got promoted liketwo years out of college that
those people exist but I'msaying like for most of us the
normal path to become an agentis going to take you I think

(23:39):
around 8 to 10 years betweenworking as an assistant and an
agent so that could be a longtime for many people and some
people do find out that theywant to do something else other
than agent like they have agreat experience but they
realize it's not for them tobecome an agent or they have
another dream they want topursue and now they have an

(24:01):
agency experience that's goingto lift them to that opportunity
And also there are people whosay they want to be a writer's
assistant.
And they start in TV or motionpicture literary.
And they become an assistantto...
an agent who oversees writersproducers like writers rooms and

(24:23):
they learn and make thoseconnections and once they finish
that once they finish theirtime as an assistant to that
person they now have a greatlike jumping board to their next
job so it's there are manypeople who want to do different
things at agencies and agenciesunderstand that they are not
like expecting everyone to wantto stay or want to become an

(24:44):
agent like they totally see howthey are jumping board in a way
and they sort of pridethemselves on that because they
also say like if you were youknow if you work for CAA once we
will always have a connectionno matter how like where you go
and maybe 10 years from now yourold boss wants a favor from

(25:05):
your studio that you now work atand you know we have a
connection so they love havingpeople there and helping them
grow and helping them reach newheights.
So that's why I sort ofrecommend to everyone, if you
don't exactly know what you wantto do, try to go to an agency.
It's a great place to start andgrow.

Speaker 01 (25:27):
And just to follow up to that, just a year ago, I
was really confused about whatan agent did or even why
agencies existed.
So just for our listeners, inyour words, how would you
describe...
the purpose and the role of anagency slash an agent.
What exactly do they do?

(25:48):
Because I feel like it can behard to understand at first when
you're just starting out toventure in this industry in
general, like why do they exist?
I only know like Warner Bros,Paramount and all that, but
there's all these, there arethese like companies like CA and
UTA who play such aninsignificant role.
So in your words.

Speaker 00 (26:07):
Yeah, I can only speak for the department I was
in because I don't seeeveryone's.
So I can't be sure if it mightwork differently for others.
But I would just say theyreally make phone calls all day.
Like that's the most...
the most action I see in theagency.

(26:28):
But they get so much done inthose phone calls.
And some assistant told me thattheir agent is so well in
basically getting to her goalsthat she can start a phone call
on different sites.
If she's on a call with astudio exec and they want

(26:48):
different things, she can endthe call making the exec want
what she wants.
So that's how good they are attheir job.
like they get so much done intheir phone calls and I used to
think they have to be in personstart those meetings and like
you know have actors andeveryone present just to
negotiate but really thatdoesn't happen as often as you

(27:11):
think and especially I think italso changed after COVID like
most of those negotiations thoselike big meetings that decide
the fate of a film or like thatgets an actor hired all these
things happen in those phonecalls and they just make these
calls from like you know Themoment you see them two, you
leave.
That's just what they do allday, but they get so much done.

Speaker 01 (27:35):
Would you want to be an agent one day, you think?

Speaker 00 (27:37):
I think it would be fun, but we'll see.
It's interesting.
CAA says their main goal isjust to service their clients in
whatever way.
That's why they have teams ofagents.
agents working for like oneclient because a client might be
primarily an actor but maybe heor she wants to direct and now

(28:01):
they also have that departmentof agents ready to serve this
client and if the client youknow has like a commercial or
like if they just won an awardand now everybody wants them to
do like something you know allthese departments can come
together to service that oneclient and the client doesn't
have to go out and look forother representations to help

(28:21):
him that particular field so Ithink that's how they're also
able to keep so many amazingclients at their agency it's
just like the way they functiontoo

Speaker 01 (28:31):
it's cool that you like you know find it really fun
because I think that's a kindof a counter perspective than a
lot of people think andespecially creative people who
are trying to get into thecreative space.
For example, like I'm currentlyworking interning at this
production company where my bosswas in the CIA mailroom for

(28:53):
three months before she got thejob now.
And she thought, you know, fromher perspective, that is, you
know, what everyone needs to getinto if they want a job as an
assistant or more higher jobs,because the mailroom or, you
know, working at an agency islike the prerequisite for a lot
of these jobs but when she youknow was talking to that about

(29:17):
um you know working the mailroomto us uh interns most of my
pretty much all of my internfriends were like no i don't
want to go to the agency it'slike what do you think because
they think it's likesoul-sucking desk job whatever
but like what do you think makesyou you know enjoy it so much

(29:37):
like why is that something youthink is right for you

Speaker 00 (29:41):
Yeah I guess I like to talk like I don't see making
phone calls as like boring but Iunderstand how it can be boring
to some people and I think it'sfun making things happen and so
many films that we see they arefinanced by agencies and they

(30:03):
basically the whole like thewhole induction of the film like
from idea to you know finding adirector finding a writer like
we sometimes think the idea juststarted somewhere like maybe
with the director and like theyjust found a bunch of people and
they just made the film andthey just call all their friends
and be like do you want to bein my film I guess that's how
like film school kind of worksbut that's not how the actual

(30:27):
industry works I was alsosurprised to learn like how many
agents read so much and theyfind a book they want to adapt
and they call up a director andthey call up a writer and say i
love this book i love this ip wemight try to represent this
writer we're looking for ascreenwriter that we represent

(30:49):
to write a script and we'relooking for a director we
represent to direct this thingand then we're gonna try to you
know they're not gonna they'restill gonna consider if actors
fit um the roles they're notgonna just be like oh we're
gonna stuff all our clients intothis one thing and it's just
gonna be our ca thing That'sideal for them, of course,
because all of their clients getto make money on something they

(31:09):
created.
But yeah, they still try tolook for outside talents.
They try to look for fit aswell.
But so much of these productsstarts in agencies.
And I wasn't aware of that.
So yeah, I think you arestill...

(31:29):
very creative even if you'reseemingly sitting behind a desk
you still get to make thesethings happen and agencies do
still do script coverage theystill read materials they still
um when they're trying to likeyou know recommend an actor to
like a director or somethingthey still um you know try to

(31:50):
like help the actor get it theyhelp the actor understand the
role and help them make sure thejob lands and they have to
pitch so much and it's justamazing like when I hear those
phone calls like some agentslike they have such a big memory
they know what this actor wantsto do next year they know
exactly what this actor doesn'tlike and they just keep all that

(32:13):
in their like sort of memorybank and they just co-op like
constantly they co-op studiosexecs like places and they
basically sometimes even quotepitch like, so this guy wants to
do this genre next year.
Do you have something comingup?
Like they might even say that.
So yeah, like so much of theindustry happens in an agency,
but we don't see that becausethey're not exactly listed on

(32:35):
INDB.
So that's something I wassurprised to find out.
I

Speaker 01 (32:38):
also read like on a lot of deadline articles where,
you know, deals happen.
I would read in the end thatCAA Media Finance brokered the
deal.
I feel like I've read thatsentence like a hundred times at
this point even for like veryindependent films like if some
something sells to neon or 824somewhere in the bottom it's an
agency yeah a lot of times the aum brokering the deal are you

(33:02):
familiar with how that processworks like in your imagination
or from what you've learned sofar like how would that process
be like for for a film say goinginto a festival or something
and having it being sold to adistributor and what's the role
of CAA's media finance team inthat process?

Speaker 00 (33:21):
Yeah, I wasn't in that department, but I did hear
another intern talk about theirexperience in that department.
Because at first when I heardfinance, I thought, oh, that's,
you know, an econ student who'sgonna, you know, I don't know,
punch numbers all day.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, I thought that's whatfinance was.
But then I talked to them at aparty and they're like, I just

(33:43):
read, you And I was like, youread scripts in finance?
But yeah, so I...
I am not particularly sure, butI think they also, you know,
read materials and work thesethings out and find out IPs that
are best for adaptation.
And I think they also cover thewhole process.

(34:04):
I mean, as interns, theyprobably don't, you know,
they're not in on everything.
But yeah, that's something thatsurprised me about finance
department as well.
Like they do a whole packagingdeal from the very beginning.

Speaker 01 (34:18):
Yeah.
So like from your perspectiveas an intern, someone who's in
the agency like looking out likehow does someone like a
creative like someone like adirector or actor like how do
they get representation from aplace like ca you think

Speaker 00 (34:32):
I mean, that's an interesting question because I
would say it's not hard to getrepresentation, but it's very
hard to get representation fromthe biggest agencies.
I think by the time you get arepresentation from CAA, you
wouldn't be wondering how to getrepresentation.
It's always like I'm trying tothink, but it's very often

(34:58):
because I was getting like...
the email sort of likenewsletter when i was an intern
of like oh we just got thisclient like they sent that out
to every employee and it wouldbe very often oh i remember it
was i don't know if i can sayexact clients like Sometimes you
are aware of which clientsbelong to which agency, but

(35:18):
sometimes they don't.
So I'm not sure.
But I'll just say sometimes ahit show comes out on Netflix
and the actor is a young,aspiring new actor who has only
been in short films before.
So, of course, they don't havea big representation.
But if the show becomes...
you know, so big, likeeverybody is calling to see if

(35:40):
this actor wants representation.
Sometimes if they're Britishactors and they get a hit show
in America, I feel like I'malready spelling the name, but
you know, if it's a British showand this British guy doesn't
have an American representation,everyone's going to be calling
them, like, you know, so it'sthese kind of people that

(36:00):
they're not looking forrepresentation.
They have calls coming in andthey get to choose.
So, that's yeah like it's it'sso yeah by the time you get
representation from these bigcompanies you you you're the
picker like you you get tochoose

Speaker 01 (36:17):
it's probably better to choose than beg them to

Speaker 00 (36:21):
represent you yeah right yeah and also the reason
for that is you know if they'rerepresenting Tom Cruise like you
don't want them representingyou if you're starting new
because they're gonna give alltheir attention to Tom Cruise
like they're not gonna careabout you you want someone who
actually can spend time on youand want you to succeed and has
enough time for you like theyhave you know if they have a

(36:41):
great actor like they can evenif they sign you so yeah

Speaker 01 (36:44):
and the other side of like representation is uh
management and we took a classtogether last semester that sort
of spelled that out a littlebit but just for our listeners
um in your in your view what'sthe main difference between uh a
manager slash managementcompany and an agency slash an
agent

Speaker 00 (37:04):
yeah um The most fundamental difference is an
agency is full of a team ofagents that service one client,
and they each have their owndepartment.
So the agent, let's say a TVtalent agent, would mostly look
for TV jobs for their client.

(37:24):
And then if the client's also acomedian who's an actor, then
the comedy touring departmentwould be looking for touring
opportunities.
So they are...
a team servicing the sameclient in different fields.
And the agent is more like aniche, like a specialty.
If you're a manager, you'rebasically doing everything for

(37:45):
your client, like from takingcare of their life to getting
them jobs to mapping theircareer trajectory.
You're responsible foreverything.
And that's why some actorswould choose to only have a
manager and not an agent if theyrealize that's what's best for
them in their particular pointin their career.
And sometimes know people havetheir wife as their manager

(38:08):
because you know that's yeah itjust makes sense i guess um so
yeah that's the most fundamentaldifference

Speaker 01 (38:17):
great i mean you were speaking on like you need a
lot of soft skills to work atthese agencies like can you give
some examples of what it is totake you know to be a great
agent or assistant

Speaker 00 (38:29):
yeah um I think based on my observation, I think
everyone at an agency reallyare like they're passionate
about the industry for sure umbut they also understand exactly
what it is they're doing likethey don't think a task is too
small they don't think i can youknow bring coffee because you

(38:52):
know i graduated from this liketop film school i can't do this
like small task like theyunderstand that we are all
trying to meet this one goal umlike assistance mailroom like
agents even though there's adefinitely hierarchy like we're
all trying to make certainthings happen we're also we're
all trying to get a job for aclient so even if you're just

(39:12):
bringing coffee you're like itmight be helping an agent make
the next phone call and thatphone call is going to get the
job so everyone understands thatthere's no task too small um
and those people have like goodinterpersonal skills um you're
allowed to be introverted butyou also need to know how to
present yourself you need tospeak up when it's important you

(39:34):
need to ask questions if youdon't understand you just have
to understand that your personalimpediments cannot get in the
way of getting the job done likeno matter what they don't
really care if you're like aparticular personality they
don't stop you from getting tothe mailroom if you're a certain
type of person they don't evencare if you're just using as a
jumping board but they want tomake sure every minute you spend

(39:55):
there you understand what theassignment is you know what's
the goal and you're willing todo anything necessary to help
the whole agency succeed

Speaker 01 (40:04):
so yeah how do you go about like being proactive
with anticipating someone else'sneeds is this something that
comes naturally for some or isthis like a skill that one can
practice over time

Speaker 00 (40:17):
i think it also comes with time just being with
a boss for a long time, youunderstand their personality,
you understand if they're youknow I guess if they walk
certain way they're pissed todayand you know how to best
approach them you know like justto make sure like yeah the

(40:38):
longer you spend with a personthe more you understand their
needs and to not take anythingpersonally I think is also
important as an assistant that'salso a question I got asked
when I was like doing my returnoffer interview they're asking
like how do you deal withdifficult personalities and I
said like I understand the goalI understand the task.

(40:58):
I don't take things personallybecause I know there are many
things that can happen at work,but you need to be focused on
what the true task is and not tolet other things get in the
way.
I think just understanding thatand also really paying
attention to the people aroundyou, trying to read people

(41:20):
anytime you see people, andtrying to make sure You know, I
think as long as you see thework as the priority, then you
naturally know how to approachpeople who are also trying to
reach the same goal.
Yeah.

Speaker 01 (41:36):
What do you think is, like, the difference between
the top agencies, like CA, UTA,WME and stuff?
Like, for example, workingthere.

Speaker 00 (41:44):
I mean, it's the clients, I think.
I haven't personally been with,like, smaller agencies, so I
wouldn't really know.
Yeah.
But yeah, you see the biggestclients.
You see all these Oscar winnerswalking.
He

Speaker 01 (42:03):
said in his Oscar speech, he was like, thank you
to my CA team.

Speaker 00 (42:08):
Yeah, yeah.
It is a team.
Yes, it is a team.
Yeah, that's important.
Yeah, you see those like...
big names walking the halls andyou're like oh my god I'm
actually working at this placelike it's it's crazy like yeah
and you see those stars likewalking their dogs like across
the hall you're like oh my godbut I think that's the main
difference I don't really knowabout smaller agencies but

(42:30):
because yeah

Speaker 01 (42:32):
uh like even WME like that's not like a smaller
like do you ever feel likethere's like a rivalry between
the agencies or I

Speaker 00 (42:40):
mean that exists for sure um I don't really feel it
when I'm an intern, but Idefinitely know that, I don't
know how much I can say, but Iguess like you're not, if you're
trying to go from one place toanother, like you can feel the

(43:00):
furry, like, you know, likethey, like with clients too,
like there's a definite emotionwith, you know, like like if
you're trying to go from likeone big agency to another then
it's it's like it's big i guesslike they really care they're
not gonna try to hide or masktheir anger are you leaving like

(43:24):
they're gonna take everythingfrom you as soon as possible
because they're like we careabout our clients our materials
and it has happened in agencyhistory where some agents leave
and take away clients.
So they are very sensitiveabout that.
So yeah, you definitely feelthat.
But other than that, you don'treally see the rivalry every
day.
Yeah.

Speaker 01 (43:47):
Do you feel like a lot of people who work at the
agency are people who aspire tobe directors one day?
Is there a lot of creativepeople there or is that mostly
business-y people?

Speaker 00 (43:58):
There are definitely creative people.
Like we said earlier, peoplearen't one particular way you
see writers you see aspiringwriters actors directors and you
also see aspiring agents it'sjust like yeah people from all
walks of life start at agenciesfor their reasons so it will

(44:22):
still make sense if you're likea creative I would still
recommend trying an agency evenjust for an internship like it's
always fun and you learn somuch yeah I

Speaker 01 (44:32):
did read somewhere that the director of Hudson
Summer Nights with TimotheeChalamet in his like one of his
very first roles I think thatwas the director's like debut
film and he also worked at CAAfor some time and I think he
just one day he just went up tohis boss or someone and was like

(44:53):
I got this script or something.
Something happened where he gothis script around and somebody
actually liked it and made ithappen.
So, you know, it is definitelya viable path.
Speaking on that, I do knowthat one of your career goals is
to potentially become ashowrunner.
How do you see working at anagency like CAA as an

(45:16):
opportunity to get you there andequip you with the necessary
skills.

Speaker 00 (45:20):
Yeah.
I'll say like a showrunner islike an ultimate, ultimate goal.
That's, you know, that's like adream if it can happen.
But if there's anyone who wantto go in that path, who want to
be a sort of exec on their ownshow or something, I think being
at an agency, you get anincredible network.
You meet people who have donethat.

(45:41):
CAA represents showrunners.
They represent everybodybasically in the industry.
You can find people a clientthat's basically doing what you
want to do in the future and thecloser you are to them the more
likely you can learn about howthey did it and you might even
become friends with them and youknow like I'm not saying like
you should become friends withclients and stuff but you know

(46:01):
the closer you are to whatthey're doing the closer you are
to the inner workings of howyou know running a show is to
how writing is to how you know awriter's room works like it's
always going to help you in thelong term so yeah you it's
mostly just information andnetwork.

Speaker 01 (46:20):
Yeah.
And earlier you talked abouthow you had an internship at Fox
as well.
What was that internship?
Like what did you, what wasthat?

Speaker 00 (46:27):
Yeah.
Um, I, I think part of it, partof the reason why I got it is
CAA too, because I applied inthe summer.
I was working for CAA and Istarted working in the fall.
Um, and it was, I was workingin the casting department.
Um, the the whole departmentwas really friendly and my execs

(46:49):
were like my supervisors werevery very nice and they actually
also told me that because ihave done like some pd work in
the past i did someinstallations and they said they
looked up my website from myresume and they said like that
was interesting and they werelike it was like i don't think
that's the reason why theywanted me but they were like you
left an impression so you neverknow what gets you a job um so

(47:12):
yeah be yourself be creativedon't be afraid to show anything
like if it doesn't fit on yourresume like you know put on your
website make it cute and likemake you look interesting be
yourself and sometimes thatmight be the reason why they you
know noticed you so you neverknow but yeah so I did it was a
lot of like similar things to mysurprise, there were a lot of

(47:36):
similar things that I actuallydid at my CAA internship as
well, because I initially wantedto do casting on the studio
side because I wanted to see theother side of casting and
representation.
And it was funny because thefirst big meeting I got to sit
on at Fox with a meeting withCAA.
So it was like, oh my God,like, yeah, yeah, full circle

(47:57):
moment.
Um, and I saw how my departmentwas pitching things to an
agency and telling them aboutthese are our new shows and
these are who are looking forand they would even it's very
funny because they will besaying like it will be amazing
if we can get this actor butwe're not picky and we're
willing to you know settle forthese as well yeah of course not

(48:20):
naming names but yeah and theagencies will also be sort of
like strategically saying we'regonna talk to these people and
we'll see what we can do youknow like it It's just so fun to
sit in at those meetings andsee how people negotiate and
talk and still be their bestself.
And I think the most valuablething was also just listening to

(48:44):
those meetings.
I also got to sit on likeweekly casting meetings and
hearing about how each show isgoing and the casting department
does so much more than justputting an actor on a show they
also you know they watch theshow when it comes out they
watch you know the pilot episodewhen a new show is airing and

(49:04):
you know they pay attention toaudience reaction they have like
a test screening they alsowatch that and on like let's say
a comedy show they would evenpick out that part wasn't funny
and they're like but that'sThat's not the actor's fault.
That was like writing.
We're going to send it back tothe writing team.
But also like they don't havepower in like I guess like

(49:26):
people who are not that close tothe casting side.
Like sometimes they would havetheir opinions and they're going
to send that to maybe theproducing team or the writing
team.
they don't get the say reallyit's just a suggestion because
they're more on the casting sidebut they do do all that so it's
yeah that's what also surprisedme like they do a lot of the

(49:48):
things and yeah like they alsoduring pitch season which is
like January of every year it'sthe most busy for them and
during the fall it was a littlemore chill but I still got to do
like a project I got to likeread on scripts they were
currently casting for and Ioffered my own casting choice
and I did my own presentationsand a little pitch.
So it's just a great way topractice how to pitch and

(50:11):
present yourself.

Speaker 01 (50:13):
How do you go about casting, though, especially in
that environment?
I feel like it must be a littlebit different than casting for
indie student projects.
Obviously the caliber oftalent, but how does the company
and how do you go aboutselecting the right actor for
the role?

Speaker 00 (50:32):
Yeah, I will say there's no pressure from the
casting department because Theywant you to succeed and they're
using this project to help you.
They're not necessarily goingto judge you on who you pick.
So you don't really have anypressure to pick the right
people because there's no rightpeople.
They just want to see if youcan talk about why you chose

(50:54):
this actor and this list ofactors for that role and how you
think of that role.
And sometimes what you saymight affect them.
I think I was...
there was this one show thathad a role and i sort of called
him like an internet baby girlkind of role and i was like i
have these actors for this roleand um some people in the

(51:17):
department knew what that meantand someone didn't and she's
like what do you mean like tellme about it like i'd love to
learn that's so funny so youknow like don't be afraid to
like be yourself and just reallyoffer how you think and that's
something also I realize a lotof like the big companies do
look for they want you as Gen Zto offer your advice because
they are looking for fresh bloodand they want that because you

(51:40):
are unique and you offer yourgeneration's views so yeah and
So you really get a whole worldof actors to choose from because
there's no rule.
It's not like at an agency youshould pick the clients for
projects you're doing.
You could pick anything as longas you can justify it.
That's

Speaker 01 (52:00):
great.
And how did you get the returnoffer from CAA to invite you?
What was that like?

Speaker 00 (52:07):
I think...
it happens while you're doingthe internship like it's not
about the interview because bythe time you get the interview
they probably already want youthey're just trying to make sure
you want to come back um sojust do your best be yourself um
while you're doing yourinternship um talk to as many
people as you can i actually hada little trick that i think

(52:28):
helped leave an impression umbecause they're also telling you
that you should write a thankyou card to everyone you talk to
and i know some people mightjust write thank you and like
you know just give it to thembut I was like I'm not like that
busy I have some time and Iwant to make these nice and
that's who I am because I alwayslove like decorating little

(52:48):
journals and I love like doingthat so I brought like my own
basic basically decorations Ibrought like those decorative
tapes I did a bunch of likeextra stuff and I made those
thank-you cards really prettyand I like wrote nicely I wrote
like paragraphs and just beingsincere to every person I talked

(53:10):
to and sometimes they'll justbe like oh thank you that's so
nice and sometimes I even gotemails telling me like did you
write that that's so pretty likethank you so much I love it and
I I didn't do it because I wantto stand out particularly, but
I just liked it.
And somehow that helped meleave an impression.

(53:30):
I think that might have helped.
And other than that, just doingyour job.
Don't be a bad person toanyone.
You might be surprised, butthere are interns who would...
Like not be as nice to otherinterns because they think they

(53:52):
only have to appeal to the upperlevels.
But like I said earlier, theysee it.
Agents are agents for a reason.
They're very good atinterpersonal skills and they
see how you treat other peoplewho might be below you or the
same level as you.
And they do not tolerate that,especially at agencies.
Something that CAA says is whenwe take good care of each

(54:15):
other, good things happen.
And they see it when you're nottaking good care of other
interns and they are gonna youknow kick you out they're not
gonna take you back so like youknow be your best self Be good,
network, and try to leave animpression when you can, and
just be good to people.
I think just, yeah, once youget the internship, it's very
hard to do wrong unless, Iguess, you're a bad person.

Speaker 01 (54:39):
Wait, so when you said you were thanking people
and giving them the thank youcard after you talked to them,
what does that mean?
Did you say hi to Steve downthe hallway, or was that
after...
Or is it like after a coffeechat, you would write a letter?
Yeah.

Speaker 00 (54:56):
Obviously, if you just said hi to someone, you
don't need to write thank youfor saying hi.
But if you do say hi tosomeone, try to schedule a
coffee chat.
Like anyone you meet and talkwith, try to schedule a coffee
chat.
And sometimes they might be sobusy.
They're like, yeah, we canspare like 15 minutes to try to
chat.
It's not going to be like, youknow, sometimes you get those

(55:19):
one hour lunch and sometimes youdon't.
But any sort of coffee chatlike once it's over you write a
thank you card that's um atother places and it might just
be a nice gesture by agenciesit's sort of a must like if you
don't write it they're gonnaremember too so like yeah like
anytime you get a chance to talkdeeply with someone and ask for

(55:42):
their like experience opinionlike anything once it's like
Once it exceeds a simple high,you should write a thank you
card.

Speaker 01 (55:51):
I kind of learned that early on, too.
I was on the set.
I was literally just like aboom operator for half a day.
And then the director just gaveme this thank you card.
Oh, really?
And I was like, whoa.
I felt seen.
I was like...
That gave me such aheartwarming feeling that even
though I was just doing almostlike a volunteer help, that

(56:15):
somebody actually saw that Icontributed.
I don't know, something likethat.
I think that's such a genuinething that can really...

Speaker 00 (56:24):
Yeah, especially coming from a director.
Yeah, I did not expect that atall.

Speaker 01 (56:29):
So that's why I kept doing that in the future.
If I'm directing or producing,I try to...
write up something just toappreciate the fact that they're
even willing to help and dosomething yeah that's awesome
yeah that's smart I never heardof this before really and I'm
gonna start doing that yeah it'slike a personal touch you know

(56:49):
like

Speaker 00 (56:50):
yeah it goes such a long way it does yeah you might
think it's just a card but itgoes a long way oh yeah

Speaker 01 (56:55):
definitely so I have a question actually because I
think a huge part of gettingthese internships is your resume
and cover letter like do youhave any advice on like what
made your cover letter resumestand out

Speaker 00 (57:07):
yeah um let's see i i have tried all the tips that
i've ever gotten i've triedeverything and one thing i
realized there's no one trickthat's gonna get you an offer um
i've tried you know like youknow looking up templates i've

(57:28):
tried like just writingcompletely from the heart and
I've like done those longer onesand shorter ones.
I've tried being more liketechnical and just be like
mentioning my skills while alsomentioning my experiences and
talking about things that's noton the resume, things that are
on the resume.
I've tried like just completelybringing my own touch.
And there are also internshipsthat ask for, what's your

(57:49):
favorite TV show from lastseason?
And, you know, I try to putmore personal touch into that
and then fusing it with mytypical cover letter where I
talk about my experience andtailoring it.
You know, I also, I've triedeverything.
Also having...
After a certain time, you writeso many cover letters that
you're going to start havingcover letter talent, cover

(58:12):
letter script coverage, coverletter development, cover letter
production.
You just have all these readyand then you tailor them.
It's what everyone does.
You're not going to write a newcover letter every time.
It's not realistic.
I'll say there's no particulartrick that's just going to get
you in, but still do it.
try your best and try to tailorit towards them and just don't

(58:37):
make basic mistakes like you'reapplying to Amazon but you write
a cover letter to Universalthat's the thing you should not
do because they understandyou're not writing a new cover
letter to every job but theyalso don't want to see it in
front of their face like oh mygod they want to at least
imagine you're writing this justfor them so Yeah, just be

(59:01):
yourself.
Try to write it to the best ofyour ability.
Don't stress too much about it.
It's more important to writethem and send them out than it
is to write a perfect coverletter.
I think in today's job market,it's so unpredictable.
Your numbers are going to win.
Quantity is going to win.
Yeah.

(59:21):
think about finishing yourcover letters and sending them
out and applying early more thanhow can I craft this cover
letter so it's like you knowyour college admission letter
like don't think too much aboutit just write them and send them
out and do your best

Speaker 01 (59:36):
is there like a certain length that you find
works

Speaker 00 (59:39):
for you?
I usually do a page to a pageand a half wow

Speaker 01 (59:44):
that's a lot

Speaker 00 (59:45):
is it?
I

Speaker 01 (59:46):
usually do like close to one full page but not
exactly full like single spacedor single spaced Single space.

Speaker 00 (59:54):
Okay, I do.
I think I might do a littlemore than single space.
So maybe we're at the samelength.
Yeah, yeah.
Because I want to, I sort ofalso format it so it looks like
my resume because my resume haslike this heading that has my
name and like all myinformation.
And I make it kind of pretty,not like too extra, but kind of

(01:00:15):
pretty.
Yeah.
And I put the exact sameheading on my cover letter.
And then I put my resume in thesame document as my cover
letter.
so when they scroll basicallythey're always singing my name
on the top like there's never apage where it's like they see
just a page because i understandthey read like you know tens to

(01:00:35):
hundreds a day like if theyhave to look for your name
sometimes they could be likenever mind you know wow but if
they see your name like multipletimes in the same document
they'll be like hey that personso i don't know if that works on

Speaker 01 (01:00:47):
top and then your cover letter As the cover letter
document?

Speaker 00 (01:00:51):
It doesn't really matter.
I think sometimes it's just putthem in the same document.

Speaker 01 (01:00:54):
I think that's so smart.
Like thinking from thatperspective, you know, like if I
were reading like thousands ofresumes, like if I'm seeing like
just another...
formatted letter that might beyou know

Speaker 00 (01:01:06):
yeah you might forget who it's from and if you
submit them separately then it'seven harder you know like they
have to like if they like thecover letter they have to be
like who is this person againhow do I find their resume you
know like if they have to golike I've heard that the easier
you make them then the easier itis they can accept you like the

(01:01:26):
easier it is they can offer yousomething so make things as
easy as possible for yeah peopleyou're begging things from i
guess yeah

Speaker 01 (01:01:35):
like maybe that's the reason why i'm not getting
anything because you don't knowthat well wait i think the i
didn't know it has to be it hasto be that long i i write like a
paragraph i don't know likehalf a page yeah maybe maybe
somewhere between half and thefull page because i was like i
just assumed they were too busyto read so much i'm like i won't

(01:01:55):
make you read so much

Speaker 00 (01:01:57):
yeah but you know like they might just read a
sentence but you should write apage right because they see a
page also also i've been told at

Speaker 01 (01:02:05):
a company who shot that shall remain nameless No,
actually no.
I will not say anything.
But a company.
Neither confirm nor deny.
Yes, exactly.
They say you should obviouslysubmit the resume, but the cover
letter is optional.
If your application does nothave a cover letter, they just

(01:02:28):
throw it out.
Even though they say it'soptional.
It's

Speaker 00 (01:02:31):
a test.
Yeah,

Speaker 01 (01:02:33):
in a way.
They want to see that youactually...
like they want to see who youare besides like a resume but
also they want to see like whyyou actually want this because
it is resources are limited andjobs are limited and if you
don't show in some way thatyou're you and that you are
passionate about getting thisposition then they

Speaker 00 (01:03:00):
want to see you're willing to put in the time at
least like they might not readit but they want to see there's
page there

Speaker 01 (01:03:07):
now richard do you do you use ai on your cover
letters actually good question

Speaker 00 (01:03:13):
we're going there

Speaker 01 (01:03:14):
i i use it to bounce off ideas i i would write one
and i would let it give me somePotential positive and negative
feedback and I incorporate theones that I think are good and I
just leave out the ones thatare like No, that's not what I
meant at all.
Like it would give me sometimespretty bad advice and

Speaker 00 (01:03:34):
I will just ignore those Yeah, me too.
I use it to edit it.
Yeah, I'm saying sometimes Iwill have You know multiple
sections and I will put it inand ask like is this paragraph
too long?
Should I cut this?
I'm like,

Speaker 01 (01:03:46):
yeah, I'm curious How does AI play a role in these
talent agencies, you know withit being more?
more and more efficient andstuff

Speaker 00 (01:03:53):
yeah um i mean my experience is from the summer of
2024 so it might be moreupdated now but um back then
like they already acquired thisum there's this movie starring
tom hanks it's called here andthey use ai to make tom hanks
look different ages i mean Iknow people have different

(01:04:16):
opinions about AI but personallyI think that's just like one
side of the technology thatcould be good for because you're
not going to cast someone elseto play Tom Hanks young you were
just going to do it with makeupand they probably did but they
also added AI to make sure helooks more like that age and I
think that's like in my opinionthat's a good use of AI and CA

(01:04:40):
actually acquired a technologyto do that

Speaker 01 (01:04:43):
yeah

Speaker 00 (01:04:45):
like they they acquired the technology and they
actually had a meeting to showeveryone like how that AI
technology works.
And I also heard from like anexec that AI is not going to
replace you.
But if you don't know how touse AI, you will be replaced.
That is like

Speaker 01 (01:05:02):
the fifth time I've heard this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like my dad has said it.
My other friend not in film hassaid it.
He's pre-med.
And then you have said it andsomebody else has said it.
In many different ways.
Yeah.
Like it's like, you know, yougot to, Yeah, they still want a
person to do the job that an AImight be able to do a little
bit, but if you're the personwho can utilize that while also

(01:05:25):
being...
a well-rounded employee, thenobviously I think you would be a
better choice than just analgorithm.
I don't know.

Speaker 00 (01:05:32):
Yeah, I feel like we're all just regurgitating
that idea to everyone, so wehear it so many times.
Honestly, yeah.
But I think there's some truthto that.
Yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of truth to that.
If we're regurgitating, weagree with it.
Yeah.

Speaker 01 (01:05:42):
So, I mean, outside of making films, though, how do
you see AI being a schedulingthing or a communication thing,
organizational thing?
Is that something being used orno?

Unknown (01:05:53):
No.

Speaker 00 (01:05:53):
I didn't see it being used.
I guess...
if they are able to completelyreplace scheduling, they still
wouldn't replace assistantsbecause assistants do so much
more.
And it's so like

Speaker 01 (01:06:07):
person to person that it would be really, really
weird if like an assistant isjust a straight complete, you
know, that

Speaker 00 (01:06:14):
would be weird.
And agents, sometimes like youmight hear that certain agents
would keep the same assistantfor years because they couldn't
find anybody else to do the samejob.
Like, yeah, if a human can'teven replace that human, then
how could ai replace them like idon't think like at least with
the technologies we have nowlike they're not gonna be better

(01:06:35):
than an actual assistant whofits so i don't think we have to
worry about that but if you'relike an independent producer
you're you're like one man onewoman team then yeah i could
help i guess

Speaker 01 (01:06:46):
the other day i heard a statistic that a lot of
assistants make um the sameamount of money or even less
than McDonald's workers?
It was crazy because thetalents are making tens of
millions of dollars, but theassistants make so much less.
Is that something you hearworking at the agency?
Do people talk about that?

(01:07:06):
I

Speaker 00 (01:07:06):
don't think assistants...
talk to interns about that andif you're like i feel like as
interns when you're trying tohave those coffee chats and
learn from their experienceyou're not going to bring up how
does the salary keep like youknow but you do see it from like
more minor details like younotice it like you see how a lot

(01:07:29):
of them do need roommates toafford to rent a house um
because like in la like theminimum you have to pay for like
a single person studios like atleast 2k and you you likely
won't be able to afford that ifyou are only making your own
money, you don't have mommy anddaddy's money, and you're trying

(01:07:51):
to make a living as anassistant, you probably can't
You know, afford to live byyourself.
So, yeah, it's definitely notthat much money, but it's the
same, I would say, for entrylevels across entertainment.
So that's not a reason tochoose like a studio over an
agency because if you're entrylevel, you get paid the same

(01:08:11):
way.
But that is a reason why.
People don't stay at an agencyas an assistant for many years.
If you work at a studio andonce you get promoted, you are
no longer earning that salary.
And that can happen within oneor two years of working there.
But...
at an agency um the path islike more singular like you

(01:08:35):
become you if you start in themail room um you get promoted to
an assistant and you basicallyget a few dollars added on like
it's not a few dollars added onper hour not like you know
monthly um but yeah and um youmight get promoted to become a
coordinator you basically becomethe assistant of the whole
department you're higher thanother assistants in a way but

(01:08:58):
you're still not an agent andthe next step is an agent so
like if you don't And if youdon't get promoted to an agent,
you're kind of on that salaryfor many years.
And that's what's hard forpeople who are trying to be an
agent.
Yeah, because you are on thesame salary level for many
years.
But if you work at a studio,then you get promoted, your

(01:09:20):
salary sort of increases onceyou become junior, senior level.
That salary jumps much fasterthan being at an agency and
waiting to get promoted.
And you can always come back toan agency.
So you can start as anassistant, get your experience
go to a studio or work somewhereelse and once you are at an
exec level you want to become anagent again that's still

(01:09:42):
possible so that's I mean that'sjust what entertainment is
right now so and at least it's apaycheck it's not like you're
freelancing so it's more stablein a way it's just the

Speaker 01 (01:09:54):
state of the market and industry I've heard that
someone from Marshall who isworking at like one of the big
studios right now as like a likea data person they're making
like upwards of 100k a year yeaheven though like yes they're
working in entertainment butit's not that's not like the
typical Like when you sayworking in entertainment, I

(01:10:18):
think the assumption is that youwant to do something on the
creative and representatorialside of things.
But obviously thesecorporations also need data
analysts.
And these are the more techiepeople and STEM folks who, I
mean, those jobs have a veryhigh barrier of entry and, you

(01:10:39):
know, really do need like, goodskill set to be able to do so
obviously i think that yeah thesalary reflects that so i don't
it's it's just the nature ofnature of the industry

Speaker 00 (01:10:49):
yeah like you can make it work if you're willing
to take that salary for yearsbut that's just generally for
the whole entertainment industryand that's why like if you come
from like a rich family ithelps for sure but i see like
people you know succeeding butalso you got to be willing to
maybe take on a And you might be30 years old and you're trying

(01:11:14):
to start a family and you'restill, you know, kind of on that
salary.
So it's just how you chooseyour life to be.
I mean,

Speaker 01 (01:11:20):
I heard what you said about the second job, but I
also hear like when you work asan assistant or an agent,
that's like almost, that's not anine to five job.
You know, you're working allday, all night.
It's 24 hour days.
So like, is that something, youknow, what is your opinion on
that kind of career?

Unknown (01:11:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 00 (01:11:39):
I mean, that's just what the industry is.
It's not ideal, but I guess ifyou're freelancing, you also
don't really have a weekend.
You're just hustling.
I feel like many people in theindustry are doing it for a
dream or for your passion.
And many people could beearning much higher salaries,

(01:12:00):
but they're choosing to do this.
And um I remember hearing thisfrom like an assistant um while
I was there and I was askingthem like what's I was thinking
about getting return offers Iwas like what's the percentage
of people you know who come backafter an internship and like
you know how many peopleactually stay at the agency and

(01:12:20):
stuff like that and theyresponded with something that
was pretty vague but I thinkmakes a lot of sense they said
um people who want to stay willalways stay or people who want
to stay will eventually stay andI think that's that's not just
saying if you work hard you'regonna come back or you're gonna
stay here it's also like if yourealize the money isn't good for

(01:12:42):
you you're gonna leave if yourealize you don't want to be an
agent you're gonna leave if yourealize entertainment just
doesn't work for you you'regonna leave if you give up on
your dream you're gonna leavelike if you just don't like the
people here you're gonna leaveso you know like it's just stick
it stick it through until yourealize it's not for you or
maybe you you win an oscar likewho knows i've heard a

Speaker 01 (01:13:03):
different i've heard this slightly different version
of that yeah where it goes thepeople who make it are the
people who are too dumb to giveup

Speaker 00 (01:13:11):
yes that's a more poetic way of saying that when i
first heard it

Speaker 01 (01:13:14):
it made me like chuckle a little bit because it
kind of makes sense like if youreally if you really just
intellectualize all of it yeah ithink a lot of people would go
yeah no that doesn't make a lotof sense i might just drop out
but but most people i thinkthey're just they're they're
really they're really focusedand so um they they really want

(01:13:36):
to achieve that goal that theyjust they just keep going keep
going and they don't forgetabout intellectualizing
everything just go with instinctand i think that's a pretty um
important part of navigating allof it

Speaker 00 (01:13:49):
yeah yeah and i met a lit assistant who's trying to
become a writer one day and iwas having a coffee chat with
her and she i was asking likehow do you feel about the
current you know it was duringthe writer's strike or shortly
after and i was just asking likehow do you feel about that does
that affect your dreams andlike you know what do you think

(01:14:11):
about the future and she justresponded like if you believe
you're good enough

Unknown (01:14:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 00 (01:14:17):
you will always rise above difficulties no matter
how hard the industry is rightnow.
And I think that's like a typeof mindset that people who are
too dumb to give up have.
They're like, I believe inmyself and I believe I will
stick it through no matter howhard it is.
So if you're, I guess, the topfive out of like a thousand
people, if they hire a thousand,you will be hired.

(01:14:39):
If they hire 10 people, you'llbe hired.
If you believe you are thatgood and you're willing to stick
it through, then you willalways have a job.
but yeah

Speaker 01 (01:14:49):
that's a great attitude yeah that's awesome and
uh something we do on the showis we have the previous guest
leave the current guest aquestion oh and this is the
question that the previous guestleft you the question is would
you rather change genders everytime you sneeze or not be able

(01:15:10):
to tell the difference betweenwhat does that say a baby and
waffle between a baby and awaffle that was from our last
guest it's that kind of questionokay wait super offbeat but

Speaker 00 (01:15:26):
i want to say i'll prefer to change genders
whenever i sneeze but alsothat's assuming i'm living in an
inclusive world where peopledon't like Let's say like if I'm
living in a place that's not acurrent USA, I think that would
be a pretty fun experience.
If like we're living in avacuum and nobody's gonna be

(01:15:49):
like, you know, like committinghate crimes, then that would be
really fun.
But yeah.
That's a

Speaker 01 (01:15:58):
downer.
No, you're good.
If you were stuck at a desertedisland, what piece of art would
you bring?

Speaker 00 (01:16:07):
Oh my god.
um like any art like even filmsand anything any this is so
random but it's the first onethat comes to mind oh my god i'm
blanking on the film's name

Speaker 01 (01:16:19):
kiki's delivery oh

Speaker 00 (01:16:20):
oh oh something delivery yes

Speaker 01 (01:16:22):
delivery service

Speaker 00 (01:16:24):
yes it was it was my first miyazaki film um i was
like 10 and i cry so hard and icry every time i watch it

Speaker 01 (01:16:34):
you know what is the message you want your audience
in the future to take away fromyour and your creativity

Speaker 00 (01:16:42):
yeah I think just me as a person I like to explore
uncertainties and humanities andI really like this thing Andrew
Garfield once said he wassaying something about like
certainty is the most terrifyingthing

Speaker 01 (01:16:59):
have you seen Conclave?
yes I love that there's a wholespeech about uncertainty oh
yeah uncertainty is the death ofbelief Yes.
Without certainty.

Speaker 00 (01:17:10):
You say everything so much more poetically.
But yes, exactly.
So that's the kind of films Iwould love to make or any kind
of art.
I would love to be able tocreate something like that.

Speaker 01 (01:17:20):
That's awesome.
Great.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on our episode.
Thank you, Lillian.
That was awesome.
Thank

Speaker 00 (01:17:26):
you.

Speaker 01 (01:17:26):
Good luck on the mail room.

Speaker 00 (01:17:28):
Oh my god, yeah.

Speaker 01 (01:17:30):
You're going to have a great time there.

Speaker 00 (01:17:32):
Thank you.