How to Run a Successful Film Production Company while in College | Harlow Schuman

Welcome to episode 9 of The First Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry. 

Today, we bring on Harlow Schuman a USC film director who runs his own successful film production company Farlight Productions while still attending college. We talk about the what it takes to run such a company, his experience at USC, and philosophies about art and life.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 01 (00:00):
The entertainment industry is a difficult thing to
break into, and you need to beable to go a long time without
being broken by burnout.
And I have said I am going tomake this happen, and I haven't
given myself any ways out.
I actually haven't done anyinternships, and it's not
because I haven't been doinganything.
I've been doing a lot ofdifferent sets, but I've been
taking the time and doing thatbecause for me, That is what is

(00:25):
working.
I saw you DP'd a feature film,right?
Yeah, yeah.
That was an experience.
We shot it for, I think it waslike $4,000 or $5,000.
Oh, wow.
14 days.
We get to USC, and the veryfirst day they sit us down, and
they say, look to your left,look to your right.
These are the people you'regoing to be working with for the
rest of your life.
And that is so true.

(00:46):
The way SCA takes applications,and they don't want you to know
this, but everyone sort ofknows it once you get here.
Welcome back to another episodeof the first Act Break podcast,
the show where we dive into theart, business, and hustle of
breaking into the film industry.
Today we have Harlu, who is aUSC film director and the
president of FarlightProductions.

(01:08):
Yes.
And you are one of the onlypeople in our cohort who's very
entrepreneurial-minded.
Thank you.
And you've started your ownproduction company, and that
will be a huge topic we'll betalking about today.
Sweet, and so have you.
I'm going to ask thosequestions right back at you.
Yeah, thank you guys so muchfor having me on today.
I'm super excited to be here.
So how did you get into likefilmmaking, you know?

(01:29):
Yeah, I think for me it was abunch of variables and I've
always been super visual.
I've been taking photos since Iwas super young using my mom's
camera because she's aphotographer for a hobby and so
camera just lying around andpicked it up.
One day I got an iPod and Ijust started like taking videos
of my cats pretty much and yeah.

(01:51):
started making little shorts ofthat.
And then in middle school, Ijust would take my camera to
school, take videos, and then Irealized I could turn into a
narrative.
And I made little things of ourrobotics team at school.
And then I made a thingfollowing one of my friends
around for a day, just what hewent through.

(02:13):
He was an athlete.
He was really smart.
So it was just super middleschool following him around.
And then going into highschool, I decided to just make
small things independent things,just me pretty much, and
quickly found some friends whohad similar interests, and we

(02:35):
just made a ton of shorts, andI, because I'm from LA, and
there's so much industry here, Ifelt super lucky in that I was
actually able to get on a set.
I took a film class at a summerschool and um the professor of
that had me on as a PA and umgetting to see that going into
sophomore year of high schoolwas incredible like being on

(02:57):
like a sound stage and seeing ared weapon and like um big
lights and we were using like a10k and I was sitting over there
on the 10k dimmer just likedoing this for like some
lightning effects and um thatwas really amazing and uh the
actual really incredible thingabout that set for me is um the
focus puller had to leave.
And they were like, hey, PA,come pull focus.

(03:18):
And I hit the marks.
And they had me on for a secondday.
And that was my first setexperience.
I'd say that was the day I waslike, okay, this is what I'm
going to do.
Dude, that's awesome.
And I saw you DP'd a featurefilm, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So that's still inpost-production.
Super excited for that to comeout.
And hopefully December.

(03:39):
But I mean...
That was an experience.
We shot it for, I think it waslike four or $5,000.
14 days, 16 hours a day.
Just putting everything intoit.

Speaker 00 (03:52):
Did you guys have a break in between?
We had one day.
Just one day in between the 16days.
How did you

Speaker 01 (03:58):
guys manage to do it with only like 5,000?
Yeah, I mean, we...
One of our friends worked orhad an internship at Aperture.
So we got access to like eightcase of MCs and two 600s.
And we had some gels.
We had two light stands and nolighting mods or anything.
So we were the flags.

(04:18):
We just like stand in front,like shake the light a little
bit.
A lot of standing very still.
I just had my camera and webought and returned a lens kit.
And Um, it was, uh, it, it wasreally amazing.
The, uh, director and actressare dating and they came

(04:42):
together with this reallybeautiful ballet story and went
to production and it was agrueling process because of the
long hours, but we're alsopassionate about it.
And like, it was actually hissecond feature and, um, he's a
USC grad as well, but, um, itwas, uh, my first feature
working on my first feature andit was amazing.
it was incredible it was uh itgave me perspective on what it

(05:09):
takes to make a short versuswhat it takes to make a feature
and i feel like when you'rereally putting your all into it
it's not as far apart as wethink

Speaker 00 (05:16):
is this uh caleb by any chance yeah from uh 4085
yeah yeah that's cool i've uhthat was my first set was with
him as well that was really coolyeah My friend Fabio was also
on that set.
Yeah, I know Fabio.
He's sweet.
He's super sweet.
But congrats.
I mean, that's huge.
Going from shooting shorts tofeature, that must be a huge
jump.

Speaker 01 (05:36):
Yeah, I mean, since then it's been all shorts.
Those are the passion projectswe have, you know?
I feel like one of the thingsabout being in film school is so
much is thrown at us to...
figure out like what stickspretty much like throwing a
spaghetti on the wall and shortsallow you to recycle through
ideas so much faster work withso many more people so i think

(05:57):
like in the student realm likemaking shorts makes the most
sense did you you said you shotfor 14 days right yeah how many
pages per day were you guysshooting oh it varies a lot um
there were some longerconversations and there were
some uh shorter scenes like forexample you A stunt is one line,
you know, like she gets in acar crash.
And that's one line on thescript, but that's a whole day
of productions.

(06:18):
And we shot all the car scenesin a very interesting way.
And of course, shooting on thatlow budget was pretty
guerrilla.
But it turned out really well.
We had a clear vision and weexecuted it.
That was the big thing.
Like the thing that took themost mental strain wasn't even
the shoot days.
It was after the shoot, afterlike having being on set for 12,

(06:40):
14 hours, going and planninglike the next five days.
because like we all know likewhile we're making films there's
the script you have that's onestory then the story you're
shooting and the story thatcomes out in the edit and what's
happening with this one isthere was actually a bunch of
rewriting and some reshoots andthen it's still being finished

(07:00):
up I think they have a finallock on it but very much like
the number of pages depends Ifeel like pages aren't always
the biggest thing factor.
I'd say on average we wereprobably doing like six pages a
day but there were some dayswhere like it was just like oh

(07:22):
we're just shooting in thiskitchen and we're getting all of
the conversations in thiskitchen in the same setup the
actors very gratefully were ableto they were great so they
switched from scenes like we'reshooting a scene at the
beginning then costume changethey get into a different mental
space and we go we shoot ascene towards the end of the
film and like it's like justminimizing that so that's what i

(07:45):
mean like it was jumping aroundlike conversation very packed
into the middle of production atthe beginning of production was
scenes that were like muchlonger and towards the end of
the production we were justpicking up all the pieces we
needed to get so like stuff thathad more extras or whatever
because we were shooting it oversummer because we're students
and our main community iscollege right now so many people

(08:07):
are out of town so it was alsojust like figuring out how to
crew and how to get everyone onboard to like make it happen so
it was contained it was smalland that's what made it possible
that's great dude that's likesuper ambitious for like you
know our level of filmmaking youknow and i do wonder like when
do you think is right forsomeone to like direct or shoot

(08:29):
their first feature film likewhen is it yeah to take that
leap i mean if you have a scriptyou're happy with and you have
the means to do it like do itbecause i what i was saying
before about like being able torecycle through shorts quicker
is um like you're in that mentalspace for that project for a
certain amount of time and likeFor me, and I can guess for you

(08:51):
guys, we're creatives, our mindwanders.
And if you're so passionateabout something that you're able
to put the amount of energy ittakes to get any film made,
especially at feature length, doit.
If you feel it's ready andyou're passionate about it and
you want to see it, I don'tthink anyone should tell you

(09:12):
you're not ready.
If you have the means to do it,do it.
Yeah.
In terms of if you're pitchingstuff out and everything, yeah,
shorts make great proof ofconcepts for features, and
sometimes that's a way to do it.
For example, your 310 film,which of course we're going to
talk about.
I hope you know that.
That would be a great proof ofconcept because I don't know

(09:34):
what your plans are with it, butthat is such a kernel of a
great story.
And if you're able to executethat, in a short length and make
someone care about a characterin five minutes, you can
definitely make someone careabout someone in an hour and a
half, two hours.
So I'd say it really depends.
For me, I'm writing right nowand I'm halfway through my first

(09:58):
feature and I'm starting mysecond feature because I want to
write something that is morecontained that I could shoot
soon because I want to challengemyself and just get...
into the space to direct afeature.
And I've seen it from thedirector of photography side,
but I want to direct one.
So whenever I get a script thatI'm happy with, I'm going to

(10:20):
shoot it.
I feel ready to be able to doit in a contained way.
That's great.
Yeah.

Speaker 00 (10:26):
I'm curious if you had the chance to DP the first
feature or direct the firstfeature either, or which one
would you pick and why?
I'm glad I DP'd at

Speaker 01 (10:37):
first.
I definitely came into filmschool thinking I was more of a
DP than a director.
And I think that's becausethat's mainly what I was exposed
to.
I love the technical aspect andit's really easy to get that
from YouTube.
Watching like behind the scenesvideos and documentaries like I
love all those featurettes andactually I got the experience to
Shoot and I'm making one for afilm.

(11:00):
That's not out yet.
Um That that was a reallyincredible experience to be on a
like a bigger budget featurewith some really big leads and
talented Producers and a USCgrad director.
It was his first feature.
He was writer director of it.
Um, and Yeah, it was a reallycool set.
Um, I but going back to thequestion starting with a dp

(11:23):
credit was nice because i got tosee the inner workings of it
and definitely at that time iwas nowhere near a place where i
could direct a feature but i ishot it i am still like
obviously working and studyingto be a better director and grow
into that and um like DPing inits simplest form is like, how

(11:44):
can you capture the actionthat's going on?
So like, worst comes to worst,you just have some wide shots
and some closeups and you justshoot it really conservatively,
really classically.
When you figure out how to dothat in most scenes, you can add
style to it.
And that's what we reallyfocused on with this feature was

(12:08):
just sort of like, developing aconsistent style.
It changed over the course ofthe shoot, but it did feel
contained.
So like definitely for me, AndI wouldn't say this should be
the same, and it probably is thesame for some people, but I
don't think there's any rightroute, if that makes sense.
For me, DPing first wasdefinitely the right route.

(12:28):
I love that shirt, by the way.
Thank you, dude.
Who designed the logo?
The logo, I actually hiredsomeone to design it.
I knew I wanted to do some sortof film-related thing, and the
name Far Light comes from theFarsight Key Light technique,
which is my favorite way tolight.
any subject i feel like there'salways a way to make it far

(12:51):
side and even if it's um alittle more complex.
Like if they're pushed upagainst the wall or something,
you get creative with how to doit.
But I think it's the prettiest.
So that's where the name comesfrom.
And I was like, okay, the logohas to do something with light,
something with film.
And he just came up with this.
That's sick.

(13:12):
It's so simple and it'sbeautiful.

Speaker 00 (13:14):
Talk a little bit about the production company.
Like what made you start

Speaker 01 (13:17):
something like this and where you see it going?
Yeah, I mean...
I've done a lot of workindependent.
That's the main thing I'vedone.
That's what we all do at thistime.
Most of us aren't signed on toany agency or working for a
company that's producing contentyear-round.
Originally, I wanted to createa company as a loan out for

(13:41):
myself.
to pretty much say, instead ofhiring me, you're hiring this
company, which is me.
We're just gonna have a calledHarlow Schumann Productions or
something like that.
And then freshman year, I metChristoph Miriam, who's my
business partner in this.
And I was like, okay, I want todo more than just that.
I wanna have a space where wecan make films, where we're

(14:04):
choosing what's happening and wehave that creative control.
And...
Yeah, so that's how I got likethe idea for it, created it.
I brought Christoph on reallyearly and like still standing
and we decided we wanna keep areally tight team.
So when we do projects, we havea, we've done a few commercial

(14:25):
things, just some different gigshere and there for stuff like
treat people in UCLA.
We did stuff for a dentist,like bunch of different
commercial stuff.
However, our focus is narrativeand to be able to do these
different things keeping a smallcrew it's just us and having
hiring independent contractorson a project by project basis

(14:48):
allows us to have maximumflexibility work with a lot of
the other people and not have tobring them into a complicated
system it's just like working onset and I think being able to
work with your friends thegreatest pleasure and I think
that's part of the reason we alldo this so that's awesome and
like for this you know how doyou go about finding these

(15:08):
clients that you work with Yeah,I mean, I truly think when
you're putting energy intosomething, that energy sort of
surrounds you, and you get it inreturn.
And for narrative stuff, a lotof that really is writing.
And at the time, I didn't haveanything, but I was like, I am

(15:28):
in a place where we've nowcreated this company, we've laid
the groundwork for it, and Iwant to make something.
So I started a...
screenwriting competition therewas 30 days pretty much to
submit it was anything up to 25pages um no restrictions on
content we would be the decidersof whether we like the content
or not um and we we hired ithink it was like five or six

(15:53):
different people to read thesubmissions i think we got
around 30 scripts it's like fivetime zones six colleges um like
we got a good amount ofinterest which was amazing to
see and um the range of scriptswas really wide like we had we
had a choice and um we wentthrough the process nailed it

(16:13):
down to three took the names offthem because those three
happened to be USC scripts sentthem out to 12 different readers
and uh just have them vote onwhich they like best and um we
happened to agree with theirchoice and we produced and uh
made Love is Fucked which isdirected by Sidney Lazar who is
a very wonderful person um andum she's genuinely the best

(16:39):
she's so talented yeah so that'sthe only narrative piece that
we've made solely with thecompany and now it's in
festivals we completed itprobably about six months ago
and um Now we've been soengrossed in school that we're
juniors.
I'm sure we're going to getinto talking about more about
like the school aspect andbalance and all that.

(16:59):
But yeah, it's a lot tobalance.
So like I want to haveconsistency with the company and
going back to what you'resaying about bringing clients,
having that consistency andhaving that constant flow of
energy.
Everyone needs contentnowadays.
Everyone needs stuff made,whether it's a celebrity who is
releasing a book, who needs youto go out on six-hour shoots and

(17:24):
deliver eight Instagramdeliverables and a few stills.
Everyone needs that promotion.
us we have those skills at handand in between bigger projects
like it's so easy to just likego out and do that so like doing
them as a few favors here andthere oh that was really good
someone thanks you for it youyou do the project for free but

(17:45):
afterwards They're like, wow,that was really helpful.
Thank you so much.
Here's like 100 bucks.
Here's 300 bucks.
And then being like, do youhave time for more of this?
And just saying yes.
And I think that's the biggestthing.
It's like saying yes andchallenging yourself to keep
that up.
And I want to grow this bitinto something where I have more

(18:05):
people doing this too.
And we're starting that processright now.
And being able to just keepthat consistency.
And when you're consistentlyavailable for something and you
create that space for it, thatone person tells one more
person, tells two more people,tells three more people, and
then eventually it catches on.

(18:25):
Wow, dude, that's great.
And I'm curious though, how areyou and Kristoff's like, you
know, responsibilitiesdifferent, right?
Because you guys are both, youknow, co-founders of this
company.
How do you guys delegate workto each other and stuff?
Yeah, I think it works outreally well because the things
we want to do have so muchoverlap, but we don't want to do

(18:46):
the same thing.
He's a producer.
I'm a director.
We both love DPing.
So there's that flexibilitywhere we share a love for
cameras and the technical aspectand everything else but it's
not ruled by the technicalaspect.
I love story.
I love characters.
I love love.
I love relationship stories,family stories, all that.
That's what I like telling.
Kristoff loves telling so manystories, and I don't want to

(19:09):
speak for him about the specificstories he wants to tell, but
the place he comes from it isa...
more managerial, likeadministrative perspective where
he's bringing his creativityand saying, okay, how do we make
this happen on this budget?
How do we get these thingstogether?
We're shooting in this locationthat's hard to get.
How are we gonna do it?
What deals are we gonna cut?
What are we going to sacrificeand change that keeps the story

(19:32):
purpose?
And then he'll check in with meand I'll say, yeah, that story
concept still stands.
Like a big example, one of mymentors was one of the producers
for The Walking Dead.
He's a professor here at USCand he told me that for the
first episode of the walkingdead the script called for a
tank rolling down residentialstreets with a soldier sticking

(19:54):
out the top of it with amegaphone saying the world's
ending you know stay indoors andthey didn't have the budget for
that like bringing a tank ontoresidential streets like rolling
like what if the street crackslike under the weight of the
tank like there's so manyconcerns and like it was just so
expensive one day on set theyjust flipped the camera up to a
lapd helicopter and did avoiceover of the same message

(20:17):
and like it It's the same storyconcept.
It gets the same thing across.
And like...
When you're getting the storyacross, so much can change.
Right now, I'm producing a filmthat was originally based on a
sandwich shop.
And it covers one of theworkers there who is on his
first closing shift, whoencounters a lot of wacky
things.
However, we couldn't find asandwich shop.

(20:37):
We're doing this super lowbudget.
This is for Trojan FilmmakersClub.
And what we ended up getting isa pizza place.
So a little script rewrites,now it's a pizza place.
Like those things that youlearn to creatively adapt.
And...
going back to where ourresponsibilities differ.
We love the same thing.
I also love producing, but it'sdefinitely not my calling.

(20:59):
And the fact that it's his andwe split that so evenly, so
naturally is the reason why thatthis company is possible.
Right.
I'm curious though.
With your company, where do yousee it being in 15, 20 years?
Is there any other similarcompanies that you hope to get
to their level, like maybe, forexample, Neon, A24, something

(21:20):
like that?
Is there any companies that youwould compare yours to?
Yeah, that's a really goodquestion.
Thank you.
I think so much of it is I'veactually been learning to not
focus on that too muchbecause...
I feel like every time I hear astory of a company who
succeeded, it's different everysingle time.
My goal at this present moment,which I know is gonna change,

(21:43):
is to have some sort of dealwith a studio who has the
ability to finance a film.
And then we basically have anegative pickup deal where we
could get access to those fundsto create a story that we're
pitched or we write or whateverit is that we can then crew and

(22:03):
have full creative control overand final cut and everything and
then have the payroll andbudget managed by some larger
studio or larger productioncompany that has those finances
because I...
really want to be...
I'm a creative.
I don't want to deal withpaperwork or the administrative

(22:26):
side of things.
I don't want to...
I don't want this to become athing like A24 where they have
this absolute success and theyconstantly create the most
amazing films that aremind-blowing every single time.
Look at The Brutalist rightnow.
It's every single one of theirfilms.
They're incredible.

(22:46):
But that scope of production...
is so managerial and I justwant to focus on the creative.
So the ability to be able topick up films when we want, how
we want, and I'm still doingstuff on my own without
Farlight.
I go and DP things that it'sjust me DPing.
I want to have my owncreativity outside of the
company, but have the company bethe place where I can create

(23:09):
the stories that I think need tobe told at that time.
That's awesome.

Speaker 00 (23:13):
Would you ever want to venture into the more studio
filmmaking?
There's obviously like a dividebetween, you know, the Sean
Baker types, you know, fundraise, you know, five, $6
million versus, you know,something like the new Jurassic
park movie, which is, I don'teven know how much that thing
costs, but yeah.
Do you want to, you know, maybeone day venture into that world

(23:35):
or do you maybe want to staywithin the realm of like,
creativity you know final cutand all that

Speaker 01 (23:41):
yeah I mean I would love to venture into that of
course like I mean I think somany of us would love the chance
at that and I'm definitely notgoing to say no if that comes up
but I mean I just like I wantto make the stories that call to
me and especially I cannot seemyself directing anything that
I'm not personally passionateabout so I don't want to be

(24:04):
solely in a studio system wherewe're like pumping out films on
a timeline to meet like likequotas like q1 through q4 like i
i don't want to be dealing withthat however as a creative
would i like to be brought on toprojects of that scale
absolutely that would be a dream

Speaker 00 (24:23):
great Is there any specific studios you want to

Speaker 01 (24:26):
collaborate with?
Because you said you want to doa pickup deal with the studio.
Is there any dream ones?
Searchlight, for sure.
I love Searchlight.
Fox Searchlight, yeah.
Everything they do, I'm a bigWes Anderson fan.
I love his two new recentmovies, Astrid City and The
French Dispatch.
I think they're bothmasterpieces.
500 Days of Summer, everythingSearchlight creates, I love.

(24:51):
I love.
I have Letterboxd.
I barely use it.
I really should use it more.
But no, I mean, if I was theLetterboxd, like most of the
Searchlight movies, I'd...
I'd say they personally connectwith me or resonate with me in
some way.
No, I was actually going to askyou a question.
I'm going to flip it around.
Okay.
What do you want to do withyour company?
Because, like, Luminary is,like, I told you this off

(25:15):
camera, but it's such abeautiful name.
It's so articulate.
And I feel like it already hasso much, like, going for it.
You have films on there rightnow.
Like, you're doing somethingwith cultivating this idea
community of films made bypeople we know, made by
yourself.
I want to hear your thoughts.
Is that what you want tocontinue doing or do you want to

(25:36):
branch out?
What do you want to do withyour company?
Thank you for asking.
This company, I hope it's abrand where it you know, our
goal with Luminary is first tospotlight like new emerging
talent, you know, to bring greatartists who are, you know,
aspiring directors and making,developing their projects with

(25:59):
them and producing them.
And then two is to shed lighton like societal issues.
I think stories have the powerto change the world really.
And I want to have it as amedium where we do show the
things that are happening tothis world instead of ignoring
them to really bring them to theforefront of the conversation.
And three, I think is to givelight.

(26:20):
to people's lives, you know, tohave that fun entertainment
thing for them to, you know, ifyou are having a bad day, you
watch a Luminary movie andyou're just like happy, you
know, excited, inspired.
And I think that's our goalsfor this company.
And whether future directions,I hope it's just to make it more
producing oriented where wedevelop scripts we get, you

(26:44):
know, we have people hopefullyto pitch to us in the future
and, you know, bring thesestories to life because they're
just an infinite amount ofstories that needs to be told
and I hope just to use thisbrand to tell them.
And also my own directorialstuff would also go part of this
company as well.
Yeah, you're an incredibledirector.

(27:04):
And I just want to take asecond and applaud you for that.
Everything I've seen from youis so beautifully executed.
And I really believe youencapsulate what your intention
with the piece is.
And I think that's soimportant.
Thank you so much.
Talking about that secondary...
entertainment value, you know?

(27:25):
Like, what do we walk away withit?
Right.
And I completely agree with youthat stories have the power to
change people.
And what I want to do is, like,just be able to change one
person.
Like, I don't care reallyabout, like, some larger
audience.
Like, I just want one person.
Yeah.
And I heard someone'sdefinition of success recently,
which is, like, in a creativesector, for them is they want

(27:47):
their films to be seen by massaudiences.
And that, to them, when theyget there, that is...
how they will know theysucceeded and i completely
respect that and i would lovefor that to happen with me but i
think really my definition ofsuccess is one when i can create
a film that someone can come upto me after and say that

(28:09):
changed my life or that changedmy perspective on something or
that made me reconnect with myfamily something like that

Speaker 00 (28:16):
No, absolutely.
Speaking of change, walk usthrough how your experience is
like at USC.
I mean, that must be a hugetransition for most of us who go
to film school, going from highschool, just making films on
the side to, you know, basicallyfully committing your time and
energy with people who you cancollaborate with.
What was that like for you?

Speaker 01 (28:35):
Yeah, I mean, we get to USC and the very first day
they sit us down and they say,look to your left, look to your
right.
These are the people you'regoing to be working with for the
rest of your life.
And that is so true usc hasdone an incredible job bringing
the people into the same room tonow where we're talking
together yeah and collaboratingwith each other on this podcast

(28:56):
and on narratives in the futurei'm so excited to work with you
on and work with you on and likeit's something that uh has
really shaped the experience.
Like, we are told that day one,and they have intention telling
us that.
Something that I think hasdefinitely changed coming into
USC is, like I said before, Ithought I'd be more of a DP, but

(29:18):
I'm definitely shifting moretowards directing now.
And just, like, that shift is avery large one.
This semester, I decided, youknow what?
I'm going to take a step backfrom directing any, like,
short...
films that i'm like writing andwhatnot and i'm taking two

(29:40):
directing classes and i'm reallytrying i'm taking directing
comedy live which comedy live isamazing if you're at usc i
highly highly recommend it theentire trojan vision program the
409 class specifically themorning brew which i did for a
long time i was i directed themand that professor jared hoffman
is absolutely incredible um andjust Trojan Vision in general

(30:04):
and everything in the Zemeckisbuilding is like such a treasure
that we have it and I've justbeen trying to explore that so
Comedy Live is one thing it'slike an SNL type show there's a
live audience and we directskits and pre-record skits so
it's a big production processbut it's a lot of directing and
we get 20 minutes to rehearse askit like we read the script it

(30:25):
gets cast in 20 minutes it'sready to show so it's learning
how to be incredibly concise andhit comedic beats that are
already written for you.
And if it's not working, and ifit reads on the page, but
doesn't work in action, how areyou gonna change it?
How are we gonna collaboratewith the actors and the writer
who's sitting there to achieveyour vision of what you have

(30:45):
read?
The other one is directingpractical, which we're taking
for our major.
And again, just like, it'sreally incredible to see the
words to describe feelings likefiguring that out I think is the
most important thing is beingable to talk to someone and

(31:07):
rather than say like make thismore sad make this more happy
being concise and saying andconnecting with them whether
you're telling a story aboutyour own life to get them to
open up and to gain that trustbut when you have that trust you
can really dig into somethingand like learning to talk to

(31:27):
your actors in a way that thatgets them to have a tangible
shift in their performancethat's character motivated,
whether it's even attacking theline differently.
Like if they're readingsomething that's a little too
aggressive, you want us to bemore backhanded, you know, and
being able to like clearly statethat is something that has

(31:47):
shifted for me.
Something that I, I know a lotof technical stuff about
cameras, lights, whatever, butlike, And numbers are easy to
articulate.
I feel like feelings are muchharder to articulate.
And one of the things USC doesso well is it teaches us how to
articulate that.

Speaker 00 (32:04):
Yeah.
What was that thing thatshifted

Speaker 01 (32:06):
your goal of becoming a DP to a director now?
I guess it was just the feelingof it.
I just found myself wanting todo it.
And it's challenging.
I feel like directing, you'reacting too.
Because not only are you...
directing outwardly, butwhatever feelings you might

(32:30):
have, you are also running theship on set.
And leadership is somethingthat is very natural for some
people, not as natural forothers, but I think the constant
for anyone who is a greatleader, whether they become the
great leader or they just are agreat leader, is they're able to
keep high energy and keepmotivation.

(32:52):
The biggest thing I've heard isknow everyone's name.
And that's advice I've beentrying to take to heart is just
learning everyone's name.
I've heard of directors whowill call up a sheet of everyone
with a headshot and memorizeeveryone's name to their face.
And then on the first day ofproduction, like the director on

(33:13):
a big thing, going up to a PAand being like, oh my God,
Michael, oh my God, likewhoever, and just being able to
like say like their name, saylike their position and knowing
that person just makes peoplefeel cared for and seen.
And we're all doing thisbecause we have stories to tell.
No matter what our position is,the only reason to take a job

(33:33):
in this industry is if you loveit.
Because if you are here for themoney, there's more money in so
many other places.
And you have to have the lovefor it.
And when you are able tocultivate someone else's love on
set and get everyone to worktowards a collective vision, I
think that's key.
And wanting to do thatsomething that shifted me

(33:56):
towards yeah directing i meandude you seem you seem like a
natural born leader you knowthank you i feel like you're so
charismatic where you peoplejust like are very attached to
you and like just understandtheir very your presence you
know thank you that's a reallybig compliment coming from you
of course man and i do want tohear about um some of your set

(34:17):
experiences because you do talkabout You've been on a lot of
sets.
What are some of the coolestsets you've been on?
Yeah.
So this feature that I wasjust, I was EPK, which is the
electronic press kit.
When you see not as much thestills, but the videos that come
out of a production, all thebehind the scenes videos, that
was my job to capture.

(34:38):
And the unique thing about thatis I was working with the
producers and the director veryclosely because the producers
are the ones talking to thestudio who are on set saying,
this is what we want to capturedyou know we're doing a stunt
this day make sure you're herethis day make sure you're
talking to the stunt coordinatorlike it was the marvel stunt
team make sure you're talking tothem you know or i'd be like

(35:02):
okay go talk to the productiondesigner like like do this do
this and when you enjoy workingwith someone, you become their
friend.
And I feel like I have allthese friends I've met that have
been so accepting of a student,just not only like interviewing
them and like taking randomvideos of them doing stuff, but
they've fielded my questions andthey've given me so much

(35:23):
knowledge about what it was, butthey've also shown me that it's
okay to like ask and talk tothem or text them.
And so many of them like are soexcited when they hear from me.
And like, that community on theset was so special it was
filled with just firecrackersand a lot of usc grads uh so

(35:44):
fight on but um it was uh just areally incredible experience i
think that was one of thecoolest things like the size of
the production was bigger thananything else i've been on um
especially for that period oftime i was there for the whole
production pretty much right umAnd even though I wasn't on set
all days, I was there from thestart to the finish.

(36:06):
Yeah, so that was incredible.
And I don't know the budget.
I think it was around 5million.
They had like 10 tons of grip.
They blocked out an entirehouse and completely
artificially lit it.
So we had daytime the entiretime.
And one of the cool stylisticthings is at one point, the

(36:28):
house is like haunted.
And...
it becomes monochromatic, butit's red and black.
So the only light coming infrom all the windows and
everything is completely 100%red.
And it's this gorgeous,gorgeous vision.
And I was just sitting therewith my camera, and I was like,
oh my God, I can't believe I'mcapturing this.
They had the Alexa fully riggedout, hanging 20 feet in the air

(36:55):
off the side of a Chapman dollydoing this overhead dolly move.
And I was like, oh my God,that's so cool.
Or seeing the DIT person atwork and just like asking them
all the time.
Cause I was constantly fillingtheir tent.
Cause it was a two monitor.
Like he had like sevenkeyboards, like the DMX rig over
here, live grade over here,live grades really cool because

(37:15):
it was receiving the camerasfeeds at full quality, recording
them, sending them out to ahard drives, like complete data
intake there.
But also they had all of theinformation from the camera the
runtime the frame rate thef-stop everything and just
seeing that and how efficientthat is and it automatically

(37:36):
gets paired with the audio sentoff to a temp editor to fill
scenes because if you're runningbehind on the day being able to
cut together the scene and knowif you're coming back to it
know if you need any pickups thenext day when you arrive to set
was amazing because this waspretty much shot in one location
uh we didn't have to takeanything down.

(37:58):
between days, so camera wouldjust stay up, it would just stay
on the dolly.
Batteries, of course, go tocharging, the lights stay up,
the tents stay up andeverything, and it's LA and we
knew it wasn't gonna rain.
And that was just reallyincredible to just see how that
works at that level, and then tobring that knowledge back to my

(38:20):
productions.
And my first purchase afterthat was a time code kit from
Deity, because I was like, okay,I just need my cameras to sync
up.
that makes everything easier,

Speaker 00 (38:29):
right?
I'm curious though.
I mean, it must be, like yousaid, it's at such a bigger
scale than most of the stuffthat we do at our level.
But if you were to draw like aVenn diagram of that production
versus, you know, a studentproduction, what would you say
is a common thread between thetwo that contributes to the
success of the film ultimately?

Speaker 01 (38:49):
Yeah, I mean, I really think like to tell a
story, like you could tell itwithout anything if you have the
emotionality to tell it.
And...
community i think is thebiggest thing uh making friends
like just having being on a setwhere the experience feels like
welcoming and feels motivatingand that you want to go there

(39:11):
every day and when the calltime's six in the morning it's
an hour drive that's a big askyeah and having a group of
people who are so passionateabout you about your work
personally passionate about theproject, when you can bring all
that together, you can makeanything work on any scale.
And I've seen that at USC,which is the same thing I saw on

(39:34):
that production.
Like we work ourself so much,whether we're staying up editing
until six in the morning orwe're, after editing until six
in the morning going to sleepfor two hours and waking up
getting ready and going to setat nine in the morning and then
working for another 12 hourslike we've all put so much time

(39:55):
and energy into everything thatis this work that we love um the
love is what makes productionsound i'd say that's the biggest
thing because like anyequipment needs to be story
motivated, you know?
Like, you could shoot on thenicest, newest cameras, but if
what the story calls for is,like, a home videotape, that's

(40:18):
not going to feel authentic.
So if you're shooting a movieabout a home videotape in one
house with two people, like, youcouldn't make the same
production that you would for$10 million, for $500 for props
and, like, a DV tape.
Like...
As long as you have thestorytelling.

(40:39):
That's the biggest thing.
And that's what they nail intous here in film school.
And that's the similarexperience I've heard too.
All my friends at film school,whether it's Chapman or LMU or
NYU, they all say what the mostfun they've had on set is when
they're happy with what's beingcreated and they're enjoying the

(41:00):
people that are around.
And I really think reflectingmyself...
I've been on some largerproductions that I'm getting
paid for that I've had nowherenear as fun as like, for
example, shooting that featurewhere I was so engrossed in the
production that I didn't mindgetting like two, three hours of
sleep to make it happen.

(41:21):
Definitely.
Talk about how you got intoUSC.
What was the applicationprocess for you?
What did you make for yourfilm, and what did you write on
your essays and stuff?
Yeah, so as I talked aboutearlier, I knew I wanted to go
to film school, and I'm verygrateful that my mom was so
supportive of that.
She was incredibly supportiveof me going to film school.

(41:42):
And...
she's also very creative and uhshe knows i'm very creative and
i cannot see a world in which iwas gonna be at a nine to five
sitting in the same place i wantto be on different sets and
different experiences andshooting over the world and
shooting in la and likeeverything all combined but um i

(42:06):
think getting into school likei i didn't i actually applied to
like seven schools really whichwas way under what my college
counselor in high school wastelling me to do but i toured
some schools and i was that havegreat film programs that i've
heard so much amazing thingsabout and i was just like i just
can't see myself being happythere and i didn't apply because

(42:29):
i knew i wouldn't say yesbecause i wouldn't be happy
there whether i'm i'm a bigsurfer so like i need to be
close to the ocean i need to beable to like go on hikes like
have like that environment.
I am also very glad I'm closeto family here.
So I knew like I would probablygo to college in LA or near LA,

(42:50):
San Diego, Santa Barbara,something like that.
And yeah, one of the things Idid that I think helped me the
most actually is I said no tostandardized testing because I
knew that it wasn't going to be,like it was going to be test
optional.
because this was going throughCOVID and we were the second

(43:12):
year of it being test optional.
And before they even confirmedit wasn't going to be, I was
like, okay, there's no way it'sgoing to be like test mandated,
standardized test needed.
So I was in for the ACT at thetime.
And I was like, I'm just sortof like done with this.
I'm putting...
Like nine to twelve hours perweek studying for this because I
wanted to get a really goodscore And I was like, okay

(43:34):
instead of that I could just bemaking films So I just would
shoot films with my friends Iwould write little things and
we'd shoot on a weekend or in aday or two and like cut it
together and just like I I thinksenior year of high school.
I did 14 films and that was along period of time and um

(43:55):
Senior year is senior year.
There's less assignments, Ifeel like.
So it opened up the space to dothat.
But even before that, becausethat was after applying to USC,
I worked on eight or ninepeople's application films for
film schools.
And whether that was being theDP on it or just crewing one of

(44:19):
my sound ops for one of myfriends.
And mostly it was DPing,though.
And that goes back to, like, Ireally thought I was going to be
solely a DP.
And I learned so much in that.
And I was probably on track forgetting about the average score
for an ACT, but that's notgoing to help.
What would help me, because Iwas so set on film school, is

(44:41):
doing that.
So what I'd say is, like, forprospective kids, and I told
this one guy who is applying tofilm school for this project,
next year um he's like a juniorright now in high school is i
was like focus on the thingsthat are going to make you most
creatively fulfilled because ifyou're doing this creative

(45:03):
passion, it's different thanjust like choosing a school with
a number one program.
You need to choose a schoolthat lines up for you.
The thing that lines up so wellfor me with USC is the focus on
storytelling and passion.
And I feel like I've seen thatconsistently in the student
body.
I've seen that in you and I'mso excited to get to know you
more because I guess the reasonthat you two have collaborated

(45:24):
so much is because you sharethat passion.
You share that enthusiasm.
So much of it is just findingthat community.
And then the other half of itis setting yourself up.
I had great grades in highschool.
I was pretty academic.
But aside from that,extracurriculars.
For me, I had the opportunityto be on set.

(45:45):
But even if you're not able tobe on set, if you're...
studying and you getcertifications for Premiere or
certifications for Adobe.
Adobe does a few differentcertifications for Adobe Atmos.
It really depends on if youwant to be technical or more

(46:06):
camera-wise.
You could be taking classes, abig one.
Almost everyone I've talked toin SCA said that they took some
sort of USC summer class.
Did you?
Yeah.
I did a little bit.
Did you?
I did not.
No.
Then I took one.
So even so, like, that's twoout of three of us in the room.

(46:28):
You know what I mean?
Like, I love that.
I took I forget what the exactclass is called.
I think it was CNTV 407.
or CNTV 415.
Oh no, it's a summer classabout directing commercials.
And I loved that class so much.

(46:49):
I spent so much time on it.
I ended up actually making a adfor Wags and Walks, which is a
dog rescue and shelter in LosAngeles.
And they've actually expandednow and they're in New York.
And I think they're also inNashville or somewhere, but
they're expanding, they're doingreally well.

(47:09):
My family loves Wags and Walks.
We have a Wags dog, big, biganimal family.
We love cats and dogs and everyanimal.
But I grew up around them andbeing able to create something

(47:29):
that would like maybe get a dogadopted, you know, like that
filled my bucket so much.
And that was something that Igained so much out of.
And the teacher for the USCclass saw it and he loved my
thing and he wrote me therecommendation.
So my recommendation for USCwas from a USC professor.
And I think that's somethingthat's so incredibly important

(47:53):
because the way SCA takesapplications and they don't want
you to know this, but everyonesort of knows it once you get
here, is that USC gets yourcommon up and SCA gets your
supplemental and they don't seeeach other.
USC will say yes or no.
SCA will say yes or no.
But SCA's yes or no is based onyour portfolio and the essays

(48:13):
that you're giving to SCA.
So you want to create anapplication that tells you as a
person something that I got toldthat was super powerful by a
professor here who teaches anincredible class.
The number is CTPR 458,Organizing Your Creativity.
The professor is Daniel Noah.
He's incredible.
He said that The thing that youare most ashamed of, that if

(48:38):
you think people found out aboutyou, you would be completely
and utterly rejected.
If you make things, if you makenarratives about that, you're
going to strike someone else'sheart because someone else feels
the same as you do.
And figuring out what thatthing is for each of us and
figuring out how to tell it andhow to be okay with being

(49:01):
vulnerable like that issomething that is invaluable to
not only us as creatives, but usas people.
And if you're able to do that,and so many people think, oh my
God, what am I going to do formy application video?
If you do something that you'redeeply passionate about, that
it doesn't matter what otherpeople think.

(49:21):
If other people think it'sweird, it doesn't matter.
Make a film about it.
And I almost guarantee if youdo that and you can make someone
else feel something out of it,that person is going to say yes
to you being here.

Speaker 00 (49:33):
Wow, that's great.
And I think I know what my nextfilm is going to be about.
I'm not going to say it,though.
You just have to wait and see.
Fair enough.
Wow, that's really profound.
Actually, I love that.
Just making something that putsyourself out there without the
filter, without trying to maskwho you really are and being

(49:54):
true to your audience.
I think that

Speaker 01 (49:56):
is

Speaker 00 (49:56):
so powerful.

Speaker 01 (49:57):
And it's okay to fail at that too.
Whether it's realizing that, ohmy God, I wasn't actually as
passionate about this as Ithought and dropping a project
or dropping whatever, that's adifficult thing.
Because we all are told not toburn bridges.
And like, I really think it'sthe best advice to not burn
bridges, but like having honestconversations with those people,

(50:19):
even if you think you're gonnabe rejected by that person, just
explaining your ultimatum tothem of like, I realized that I
really don't wanna do this.
Like even just in that mostdifficult situation of, feeling
scared of burning a bridge andfeeling rejected in that manner,
learning to have thoseconversations is so valuable and
it'll really put you on yourbest path.

(50:41):
If people know you and yourreputation that supersedes you
is that you're honest, that is,I think, one of the biggest
compliments.

Speaker 00 (50:51):
I'm curious, did you have an experience like that
where you wanted to say yes buteventually said no to a project
or- A ton, yeah.
What was that experience likeand- Um, yeah,

Speaker 01 (51:02):
I've been asked now I something else I did in high
school is I submitted my filmsto festivals.
And I would just there's a fewfestivals.
A lot of them are around LosAngeles, but there's a lot in LA
and New York.
And I think there's some inChicago, whatever.
But pretty much you just payfor an official selection.
And then if you win an award,that's great.

(51:24):
But when you apply on FilmFreeway, you get an official
selection pretty much forapplying.
And it's a lot of these monthlyfilm festivals.
And that's a great way to rackup laurels.
And when people started to seeit, I started to win gold
cinematography awards or stufflike that.
These smaller festivals.
And being able to attach thatto films I've DP'd.

(51:47):
And...
that has opened me up to peoplebeing like, oh, well you DP
this and whatever.
But I feel like if I reallydon't see behind the vision, I
will not be able to bring thatthing to the forefront that I
was talking about with thefeature a few minutes ago of
shooting a scene that's supposedto be shot classically and

(52:09):
putting a creative twist on itthat is motivated by the story.
And if I'm not passionate aboutthe story and about those
ideas, I don't want to putmyself in a place where I'm
going to create something thatI'm not incredibly happy with,
especially because at the levelthat we're doing things now as
juniors and as people who havebeen on a large amount of sets

(52:31):
we know what it takes to get ascene made now we know what it
takes to get a show made and I'mnot going to put myself through
that and put in all that effortwhen I can be doing that for
something I'm more passionateabout and we're always told to
say yes and I really thinkthat's like the best policy is
saying yes to someone but ifyou're being asked to do a

(52:52):
creative role for something thatyou don't have creative
interest in I think you can putmore respect to them and more
respect to yourself by learninghow to say no to a project
without offending someone.
And that's a difficult thing,and that's really hard to do.
It's also just knowing thatperson and like weighing the
cost because sometimes like, andthis sort of contradicts what I

(53:15):
was saying, but I think that itmakes sense together that there
could be a project that youjust don't care about
whatsoever.
However, you just want to workwith a person so badly and you
want to see how they are on set.
You want to see them in likedirecting shoes or you want to
see them in a like producingshoe and you're coming onto this
project in a creative role.
If you manage that expectationbeforehand and you're clear

(53:36):
about like, I don't quite getthis part.
So in the creative developmentof this, I want you to take the
lead on this part because Idon't see this part.
And being able to haveconversations like that opens
you to creating a better productbecause your focus then becomes
what you want it to be.
And you're not having to sitdown and do something that

(53:57):
you're supposed to be passionateabout and feeling like you're
obligated to do it.
And I feel like that's one ofthe worst things.
And I have some really amazingfriends who were...
filmmakers and thought thatthey were going to do film.
And the reason that they're nolonger filmmakers is because
they got burnt out by not beingable to say no.
And that is something thatlike, it's a difficult thing.

(54:22):
But the other side of it islike, now they're happy because
they found what they wanted tobe doing because they were able
to be burnt out of this.
And the entertainment industryis a difficult thing to break
into.
And you need to be able to go along time without being broken
by burnout.

Speaker 00 (54:37):
Yeah, and we're also very busy people.
Our

Speaker 01 (54:40):
schedules are constantly filled with classes
and our films and stuff.
Which is why I admire you beingable to do this every Friday so
much.
That consistency is soimportant, and you guys are
having this podcast, which,what, you've been doing this two
weeks?
Something

Speaker 00 (54:55):
like that?
Yeah, two, three and a halfweeks.

Speaker 01 (54:57):
Everyone's seen it.
I had class this morning, andeveryone was like, oh my god,
this podcast.
It's been popping up on everyInstagrams and you guys are
doing something right and likethat consistency that passion
thank you guys thank you thankyou so much but I was just
thinking you know what you saidwas really valid because you
know you have to the best timemanagement thing that keeps you

(55:22):
organized is to say no to thethings that you know you're not
excited about yeah if someonewere to build wanting to do the
same as you building their ownproduction company because you
said the goal with yourproduction company is so that
once you're done with filmschool, you get to just work for
yourself, right?
And not having to worry aboutnine to five jobs.
And I feel like most people wholove film also don't want to be

(55:45):
in an office the whole day forthe rest of their lives, right?
So what would you give them,like a step-by-step framework on
building their own brand,business, or production company?
Yeah, I mean, I think the thingthat's going to work about my
company is that we're focusingon narrative films.
make it happen and to make itrealistic, that's why we're

(56:07):
doing those other media thingsthat have nothing to do with
narrative.
Because I personally, I wouldlove to direct commercial
eventually as just like, not mymain thing, of course, but I
love commercial and I love thatmedium and it's such a quick,
satisfying turnaround.
But doing all these like morecorporate things and whatever,
like that's not what fills mycreative soul.

(56:28):
However, that's something thatI think really creates something
that will make my company work.
What I'd say for anyone that'slooking to start their company
is an LLC is the best way to gobecause whatever capital that
LLC has is all you can be suedfor.
And if you are working as apart of that company or anyone

(56:49):
on your crew who has signed anindependent contractor form,
those are the people we bringon, the independent contractors,
they're on for only that thingand they're protected by the
company.
So it gives you so muchprotection because you can't be
sued for everything you'reworth.
You can't be sued for anythingat all.

(57:10):
The company itself is sued.
And if the company has $5,000,then $5,000 is the max they
could be sued for, you know?
I'd say LLC is the way to go interms of setup.
For me, what really works ishaving a flatline structure.
I'm not trying to be a CEO.
My title is president, andthat's because I am the creative

(57:31):
director head of the companyi'm deciding the direction that
we're going in however i'm notdoing that alone christoph has
as much power and that is mebecause i don't want to do
something without him and hedoesn't want to do something
without me and we happen to havea very similar vision which is
why it works which is why ifyou're going to start a company

(57:53):
either do it with yourself andbring in cons i can't i don't
think you can be creative in abox by yourself you need I think
for me, such a big part of mycreativity is collaboration.
And I really think that's howit is with everyone.
That's how this industry is.
If you're going to be afilmmaker, you are collaborating
because you cannot shoot afilm.

(58:14):
That's just you unless you'reBo Burnham and he's incredible.
But yeah, so decide how manypeople you actually want in your
company.
Create a system for bringingpeople on in a safe way that
protects them.
And then just have consistencybecause you can...
have the want to start acompany and when you truly have

(58:36):
a reason to do it for me it'sthat protection and being able
to have a uh something that'snot directly attached to what my
creativity is um so i could beworking on other things for
example the short film that wejust did that was our company is
a really incredible story butit's not a story that i have any
place in telling because it'sabout a woman who has a

(58:58):
miscarriage and that is notsomething that's in my
wheelhouse to cover.
And Sydney, who wrote anddirected it, she absolutely
killed it.
She was able to embody thatemotion and oh my God, it's a
heart-wrenching performance thatis on the screen.
However, I was in a place to DPit.
So I DP'd it and produced it.

(59:20):
And...
we actually kept a really tightcreative vision because she has
such a complete vision and forher it's the little pieces that
build up the world it's not thisworld that has other little
pieces in it which i think i seea lot in in films and um
because of that unique drivecertain shots sold other shots

(59:41):
like 10 minutes down the line inthe film and uh for that reason
i also edited it because um shehad that vision and i think
putting it off to another editorwho would have their own vision
we shot it in such a particularway and it worked and that's so
rare so we kept it tight wekept it close um and because of

(01:00:01):
the way the company's designedwe had the ability to do that
because we don't have an editoron staff who would be the editor
for that project we had theability to bring an editor on or
for us to edit ourselves um solike for me flexibility is a big
one because I think creativityis like a waterfall and any type

(01:00:22):
of water flows and sometimes itdries up sometimes it's just
gushing but the path will alwayschange a little and the water
is never going to fall exactlythe same way a drop is never
going to hit the same leaf twiceso having the ability to shift
is I think incredibly importantdon't tie yourself down
especially this young I don'tknow what's going to happen in
three years I'd like to say I'dlike to say we're making

(01:00:44):
features but I can't say it forcertain you know so I want the
options

Speaker 00 (01:00:48):
Guillermo del Toro said if you're a painter or if
you are a musician or whateversometimes you know you can
discover in their desk you knowthis unhidden or just hidden you
know drawer of unpublisheddrawings or you know pieces of
music but in terms of filmmakingthat really isn't going to
happen you're not just gonna youknow find you know Guillermo

(01:01:09):
del Toro's grave or you knowChristopher Nolan's grave and
all of a sudden they have likethree features they never
released and Because you justhave to go out there and do it.
And I think that's exactly kindof the spirit that you have
with Farlight and everything.
So I think that's the spirit weshould all have as filmmakers.
And it's the spirit I've seenin both of

Speaker 01 (01:01:27):
you too.
You were just saying thatyou've been producing stuff.
Even though you're not aproduction major, you realize
you want to produce, whetherthat's your end goal or not.
That's what you're enjoying andyou're doing it.
And you're doing the exact samething, whether it's producing
or directing.
What are you doing for 480again?
Right?
now like the crew position i'msecond ading it so sweet yeah so

(01:01:49):
one of the things that usc isour um capstone prep class is
called 450 where we crew on oneof the capstone projects and for
that you are

Speaker 00 (01:01:58):
the second ad

Speaker 01 (01:02:00):
so i'm just kind of assisting the first ad on all
the tasks just making the setrun smoothly you know bringing
the actors on and off set andlike kind of just relaying
information and just makingeveryone feel comfortable i
guess yeah how has it beenworking under someone else's um
set and creative influence whilemaking everyone feel

(01:02:22):
comfortable because I feel likesuch a thing that becomes so
natural and you're an incredibledirector and you've directed
quite a few things by now isyou're the one that's fostering
that environment Is thatsomething you still find
yourself doing as a second AD?
Dude, I mean, I think everyonehas the power to bring
positivity and joy no matterwhat position you are.
You could be a PA, you know,and you can still bring that joy

(01:02:45):
to everyone.
And I was just really fortunateenough where my team and the
people above me, you know, thefirst AD and the directors,
they're very, very passionateand also very positive people.
And one of their main goals forthe set was to have this
environment where everyone feltvery welcomed, very warm.
And no, I have to a good timeworking with them and i'm gonna

(01:03:05):
be on their set tomorrow soamazing weekend one of the 480
so that's gonna be fun that'sright i'm super excited for
weekend one and what positionare you doing i'm gaffing so i'm
pretty much choosing where thelights go to fit the dp's vision
and it's nice we tackle lightin a very similar way where we
add it and then cut it to makeit more precise and we're
shooting a rom-com which hassome lower contrast ratios it's

(01:03:28):
pretty open it's very welcomingand warm so and which film was
that it's called uh just friendsoh sick that's gonna are you
guys filming um on the stagestomorrow no tomorrow tomorrow
we're shooting in a living roomday for night cool oh wow nice
nice what what are your guys uhlike passions besides film do
you do athletics like likeskiing is that like like um like

(01:03:52):
what's up

Speaker 00 (01:03:53):
i know uh for me i play ping pong sometimes with
friends that's just like one wayto just you know um just relax
and forget about anything reallyum i do run i've been trying to
run a lot lately i was a runneruh what do you run uh i don't
like a run running as in likeliterally just like pure
exercise but in high school idid rowing which is like crew

(01:04:16):
and that's a lot of just longhours on the boat or even on
like one of those machinesthat's called like an erg if you
they have one of those or someof those at the village um
gymnasium so i i've been doingthat as well uh it's good
aerobics but it also trains yourleg and and your back as well
so that's something i do just toyou know stay fit and healthy

(01:04:39):
and so that can be prettyintense sometimes you know long
hours and um exhausting and soone way to keep up is to just
stay fit which i know jiayangalso does in a different way i
did i grew up playing so manydifferent sports

Speaker 01 (01:04:52):
but i think right now i really like flag football
um just been playing with a lotof my friends and uh we do the
intramural leagues so we havegames like on sundays and stuff
and it's it's a ton of fun yeahwhat about and you're a surfer
right yeah as much as i can um imean growing up by the beach it
sort of sticks with you Butyeah, it's been sort of crazy

(01:05:16):
with the fires and now the rainand everything.
And yeah, ocean's pretty out ofcommission around this area
right now just for bacteria.
But as soon as it's better, Icannot wait to get back.
That's so cool.
The thing I find really uniqueabout surfing is it forces you
to be okay with...
things not going as planned inlike a really crazy way because

(01:05:40):
like the ocean is sounpredictable and even sometimes
when there's like a great swellcoming and you have like
incredible expectations for likethese big waves that are like
perfect shapes and you're justso excited it can not be that
way at all or sometimes you justfeel out of your depth and like
it'll be too big or you're putin like an uncomfortable
environment it's learning tosort of just like relax like

(01:06:01):
know that like you have theconfidence in yourself to get
out of it but also Like youcan't tell the wave what to do
and you can't tell the wavewhere it's gonna break.
You need to learn to adapt andlisten to the ocean.
And I know that sounds sort oflike a strange, but like it's
really true.
And that's why you hear so manysurfers talking about it.

(01:06:22):
But it's something that I thinkhas really helped me as a
filmmaker as well.
Learning that to just move onyour feet and go quick.
And I think that's somethingyou learn in a lot of sports is
like you're reacting to what'saround you And when you're
sensitive to that, and you'resensitive not only to the things
happening around you, but whatpeople are feeling around you,

(01:06:43):
that creates a massiveopportunity for you to help in
some way.
whether that's creating abetter product whether that's
just checking in on someone orcalling someone out for
something that they could bedoing better because frankly
that's all we need to hearsometimes you know like we

(01:07:03):
sometimes like aren't doingsomething bad out of malintent
and I find a lot of the timethat's what's happening is that
it's not out of malintent it'sjust like not knowing better or
not knowing what to do betterand if someone calls you out on
something in a collaborative andsupportive way that is

(01:07:25):
something that allows you tochange and being able again to
have those conversations and behonest about that like that's
what it always comes back to andI know that shifted from sports
but no I mean last night'sconversation when we were eating
dinner you said that you werelike into spirituality and
everything what are some likephilosophies that you really

(01:07:47):
hold close to you when it comesto creativity and like just life
in general yeah I just startedreading The Creative Act by Rick
Rubin and I highly recommend itsomebody's a fan of the book no
I love that book yeah on one ofthe first pages it talks about
how creative flows come atcertain times which is why it's

(01:08:08):
not uncommon for you to have anidea and if you don't pick that
idea up it'll find its waythrough another maker and it's
not because they're stealingyour idea but it's because it's
the idea's time to come and whenyou're creatively tapped into
that and your antenna are onalert you're able to pick up
those things and tell that storywhen it's ready to come to

(01:08:30):
fruition.
So that's why, again, goingback to the thing I was talking
about with surfing is being ableto be responsive to a
situation.
And then what we're learning inschool is how to be articulate
about it.
And when you combine those twothings and you're able to get
inspired, that's whereinspiration comes from for me is
that merge between what isinteresting to me and what I

(01:08:50):
feel and then what I want to doabout it.
And being able to sort of getfrom one place to another is
where the goal is, I reallythink.
Yeah, just in terms of likespirituality, I think like
really everything happens for areason.
And like, I think that is whatpeople mean by manifestation a

(01:09:12):
lot of the time and whether ornot you believe in being able to
manifest something by focusingon it.
What I think is a reality thatwe can all agree on is when you
put more time and energy intosomething, there's more
likelihood of that happening.
And I've taken what I think issort of a unique approach to
this.
And I have said, I am going tomake this happen.

(01:09:33):
And I haven't given myself anyways out.
I actually haven't done anyinternships.
And it's not because I haven'tbeen doing anything.
I've been doing a lot ofdifferent sets but I've been
taking the time and doing thatbecause for me that is what is
working like I want to be havingthose experiences for me I
would get so much out of havinga script development internship

(01:09:55):
where I'm able to see what otherpeople are writing and be able
to collaborate with the peoplewho are saying yes or no to
those scripts however the thingthat's more aligned with what I
want to do is being on set So Ijust had to listen to myself and
go against advice to not takeinternships.
And now it's working.
Now I'm getting the chances tobe on paid sets, like even like

(01:10:19):
one day comedy skits being paidthe equivalent of, I think it's
about $40 an hour to just likebe there and shoot it.
That's great.
And yeah, so like that'sworking very well.
And that's because I listenedto myself.
and so much of what i grew uphearing from my mom is you need

(01:10:43):
to learn who you are and beingable to know what you want be in
touch with yourself and notthinking what do i want oh i
don't know but being able to godeeper than that and feel this
is the direction i want to go inand then coming at it from a
creative way and from arealistic way and saying, this
is how I'm going to achieve it.

(01:11:04):
And I think that's what we'reall in film school for.
I think that's one of the manyways to get into the industry.
I don't think you need to be infilm school to be a director or
be a producer.
Yeah, totally.
It's whatever works for you.
I actually know someone whowas...
What was their undergrad?
Their undergrad was like...
mechanical engineering orsomething like that.

(01:11:24):
And now I just can't see themdoing a math problem.
They're solely focused on justcreating weird analog black and
white photographs of people inuncomfortable positions.
And that's all they do.
But it's like that shift forthem, the way they put it, is I

(01:11:45):
was so focused on being able tocreate a space in my life where
I could do that art that I feltI was losing it.
So I cut all the stuff I didn'twant to be doing out, and I
just started doing this more.
And now he has a massivefollowing.
And he, I think, was putting itin a gallery or something,
which is great for him.
But it's because he followedhis intuition.
Yeah.

(01:12:06):
And earlier you said you have agoal of hopefully one day
having your company doing thesedeals with these studios, right,
where they can finance thefilms and you guys have creative
control.
I know in the futureeverything's uncertain, anything
could happen, but what do youkind of picture as the
step-by-step to getting to thatgoal with your company, and how

(01:12:26):
do you envision that to come tolife?
I think it starts with findinga script.

Unknown (01:12:33):
Okay.

Speaker 01 (01:12:34):
when I find a script that I think will be a film
that I'm passionate about to putthat amount of time into to
direct.
whether it's something I write,which it probably will be, or
maybe it's something thatsomeone else gives me that I
want to write.

(01:12:54):
And I know I was talking to youabout this screenwriter who I
was connected with who writesthese really incredible shorts
that need to be features becauseit just doesn't tell enough in
the short.
Like it's one of those thingswhere the proper form for that
is a feature film.
Like I was, I just needed morebecause not because it was
poorly written, but because itwas so deep.

(01:13:15):
And, and like, I just wanted toknow more of the characters.
I felt like like I was leftwanting more.
However, it's probably gonna besomething I write and I think
the step by step, if you're sortof saying it that way is, okay,
step one is getting the scriptto a place where I think it's
comfortable to be read.
And because we're in thisincredible community, I'm just

(01:13:36):
gonna send it out and I'm justgonna have as many people read
it as possible and get as muchfeedback on it and get it to the
point where, people have readit, but they've read it where
it's already a point where Ifeel like it's ready.
So anything else that's addedand changed, that's amazing.
However, I also see so muchvalue in sending it out to those
people so they get a sense ofthe vision.

(01:13:57):
So then switching tactics andgoing to studios or production
companies that would have thefunding to be able to do that.
putting that in and then goingback to those people who read
the script previously, who sawthe creative vision for it, who

(01:14:18):
liked it and saying, okay, thishas a chance to be made.
Like, what do you wanna have todo with this?
And then bringing that sort ofcommunity together who has that
vision, showing that to thecompany and like making that
happen.
And then ideally Farlight willbe the one producing it and we

(01:14:39):
get the money to do it.
If it's just me directing afeature for myself that's
produced by another company,that could be the path too.
And I think it just depends onwhat happens.
But the same thing I was sayingabout the more that's made, the
more chances you get is onceany of us make that first

(01:15:00):
feature, we're on the up and up.
And the only thing that's goingto happen to us and everyone we
know is we're going to bringthem up because we want to work
with those people.
We want to work with the peoplewe like.
And we're going to film schoolwith those people right now.
So that will be something thatis very...
influential you know when youget your first feature deal and
you want someone to shoot it noi'm here

Speaker 00 (01:15:20):
for sure absolutely no we gotta definitely
collaborate on more things

Speaker 01 (01:15:24):
100 and you have

Speaker 00 (01:15:25):
the uh what's it the feature

Speaker 01 (01:15:28):
script competition hopefully in the future yeah
yeah so um in the past what iwas mentioning with doing that
short competition uh the nextthing i want to do is either for
pilots or features and um ioriginally wanted that short
competition to be an annualthing and i was like you know
i'm sort of done making shortsSo I don't want to put all that

(01:15:48):
time and energy again because Iput the equivalent of what I put
into that feature into thispast short film.
And the budget was higher thanwhat we had for that feature
even though it's a short.
And what I was realizing is ifwe can make a short with a
bigger budget than we could withthe feature, why can't we just
flip it?
We have the resources and wehave the abilities to be able to

(01:16:11):
make these really micro-budgetproductions and once that story
is the Like there, once it's onpaper, it's able to be shot, I
think.
Dude, that's awesome.
And hey, if you guys arewatching and you have a feature
film script you want to submit,follow Harlow to get any updates
on that competition.
Yes, please do.

(01:16:32):
That's going to be sick.
I was given a piece of advicewhich I've really followed to
what I believe is the T and Ithink could really benefit
anyone which is ask questions orbe out of asking questions out
of whether it's feeling likeawkward, like, oh, I don't know
something or being vulnerableand admitting you don't know
something or feeling like you'reslowing things down.

(01:16:53):
Or sometimes in class, I feellike people are frustrated with
people who ask a lot ofquestions because they wanna
keep it moving.
But if you're interested insomething and you wanna know
about it, ask it whether it's inclass or peers or your parents
or like people who you look upto whether it's even just like
sending a cold dm like on overinstagram you know like there's

(01:17:15):
always a chance that that personresponds and i've gotten jobs
that way and i know a lot ofpeople have gotten jobs that way
i know someone who has nowdirected a ton of music videos
that are pretty high profile andthe whole reason is because
they just sent out instagram dmsthat's it so yeah we have that

(01:17:37):
we have that now like just askask

Speaker 00 (01:17:40):
that's it being proactive about it yeah

Speaker 01 (01:17:42):
or if you're going into college and you're looking
for how to get into it on everycollege site they have the
regional uh like applicationmanager Email them.
Ask for a five-minute meetingbecause you have a question that
couldn't be answered by what'son the internet.
Pique their interest with whoyou are as a person.
Wow.
Yeah.
Fake interview.
That's

Speaker 00 (01:18:01):
great.
Dude, thank you so much forcoming on this

Speaker 01 (01:18:03):
podcast.

Speaker 00 (01:18:04):
Of course.
Thank you so much for havingme.
This was a really wonderfulconversation.
Thank you for creating theplace to say.
So much wisdom, you know, liketo give to this audience.
And I'm sure.
Oh, yeah, truly.

Speaker 01 (01:18:14):
Thank

Speaker 00 (01:18:14):
you, guys.
Thank you,

Speaker 01 (01:18:15):
Harlow.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.