How’s Life after USC Film School | Justin Roh - First Act Break

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 00 (00:00):
Becoming an artist, I think endurance is key.
And if you don't have thepatience, the mentality and
endurance in you, then it'd be avery, very difficult journey.
There was a lot of rage that Iwas like, I didn't get in.
I'll show you what I can do.
I also think being an artist isa very selfish journey because
it's about finding yourself andthen sharing that to others.

(00:20):
And I was directing somethingand then I took a break and I
felt my heart pouncing.
Very dangerous for everybodyBut we had to get this last
shot.
But the location turned outsomething that I didn't expect.
A lot of just ugly thoughtsbecause they're spending so much
time alone and they equate thatas falling behind.

(00:42):
And I think that's so wrong.
I think spending time alone andbeing comfortable with it is
the greatest strength that youcan have in living today's
society because so many peopleare not comfortable with that.

Speaker 01 (00:54):
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of
the First Act Rate Podcast,where we break down the art,
business, and hustle of breakinginto the film industry.
Today we have a dear friend,Justin Rowe, today

Speaker 00 (01:04):
with us.
Thanks for having me, guys.
Welcome.
And you are a USC film directorwho graduated last year and now
are in the real world.

Speaker 01 (01:14):
Yeah, very exactly.
Yeah.
Well, walk us through applyingto film school.
I mean, that is already, what,five years?
six years ago five years agonow

Speaker 00 (01:25):
jesus what was that like for you now that you put it
that way sounds like eternityago film has been something that
i've always wanted to do sincei was fifth grade um and this
was back in korea so you knowlike most korean i think most
schools in asia are not reallyequipped for students to

(01:48):
continue you know dreaming filmbut I was very lucky that my
family moved to the states so Iwas able to continue that dream
and throughout high school Ireally didn't get involved in a
lot of filmmaking because myhigh school was more stem
oriented but um I still reallywanted to do film so although my

(02:08):
curriculum was not filming atall I think I still dreamt and
worked on kind of earlyon-screen plays that were very
bad.
But for some reason, I didn'treally research that much into
film schools.
So all I knew were kind of USC,NYU.
So those are my top twoschools.
And I have a very funny storywith writing for USC.

(02:32):
I knew early on that theyrequired a film, like a
five-minute film.
So I had my friend who livesnext door to kind of film
something with.
And I had that film preparedearly on in summer.
And I was very confident thatI'm ready and I can just apply
to film schools after my CommonUp is done.

(02:54):
And writing the Common Up basicessay took me like three
months.
And it's like 600 word essay.
It took me three months.
I put a lot of effort into it.
And now it's like three daysbefore the USCA film school
deadline.
And I get into the portal andit lets me to a separate portal
called SlideRoom, which I had noidea about.

(03:15):
And I'm expecting as I'mclicking, I'm expecting there to
be a film submission portal.
But as I click, I'm encounteredby a question, a thousand word
essay question about your artiststatement.
And I'm thinking like this islike, you know, like not, you

(03:36):
know, it doesn't pertain to mebecause I just thought it was a
film thing.
But I scroll through andthere's a section that requires
a screenplay.
I scroll through, there's asection that requires a project
that you succeed and a projectthat you failed.
So now I have to write fouradditional essays that, you
know, in total, like it's worth3,000 words in the matter of

(03:59):
three days.
that I have.
That's crazy.
So now I'm sitting in front ofmy laptop, truly contemplating
whether I should, you know, giveup on my dream because I
discovered this three daysbefore submission deadline.
But then I'm also thinking, youknow, like this is a kind of
life-defining moment, you know,like I'm in front of a time

(04:22):
where if I decide to do this, Ican continue my dream.
If I quit, then, you know, Imight be pivoted to political
science or agriculture, whichwere the two options.
And I also wasn't brave enoughto tell my parents that I
skipped on the admissionrequirements so I could apply to

(04:42):
the film school.
So the next three days, I wentcrazy and I wrote down all the
essays and they were all very,very poorly written.
But I think because I wasrushed by time, I had a more
clear focus.
It was more like a do or diemoment.

(05:03):
So when you're procrastinatinguntil the very end, you
sometimes get very good results.
I think I was very lucky to dothat.
But on the second day of theadmission, deadline so like two
days before I had a concert togo to and it was a it was a
pianist concert that I reallywanted to go to and it was super

(05:23):
expensive and I couldn'tcouldn't get a refund so
although I had so many essays towrite you know I had to attend
the concert so I went there AndI got super inspired by the
pianist and the performance.
So I wrote my screenplay aboutthe pianist, about a Japanese
pianist who's blind and she'sapplying to competitions.

(05:44):
I wrote about that.
So I submitted that applicationto USC, but immediately I knew
I wasn't going to get in becauseI also mistakenly put the wrong
GPA on the Common App Portal.
What did you put?
So I had 4.3 GPA out of 4, butI mistakenly put 4.3 out of 5,

(06:07):
which completely changes thescope.
I also omitted some SAT scores.
Because it was the firstapplication.
Because film school applicationis, like, December 1st.
Right.
So, yeah, I literally, like,skipped on the most important
elements.
So, I knew I wasn't going toget in.
Because USC is, like, verytough.
And film school application is,like, competition is, like, 1%

(06:30):
of set dance rate.
So, I knew I wasn't going toget in.
But then, January, I get anemail saying, oh, you've been
selected for an interview.
So, I was like, oh, maybe.
Yeah.
Maybe I have a chance now.
And the interview, so becausenow I have this chance, I
decided this interview will savemy life or it will destroy my

(06:53):
life forever.
So I decided to go on as longas I can.
But my house has really poorWi-Fi.
So with the interview, it was aSkype call, but I couldn't see
the professor.
for the entire duration of theinterview, I only saw myself.
So I was literally talking tomyself and just hearing his
voice.
But I still went on and did itfor an hour and 30 minutes.

(07:17):
And usually it's like 15 to 30minutes.
Just to get a sense of who youare.
But I just, you know, like,started talking about films I
love and we talked about Koreanbarbecue and just more random
stuff until the professorreceived a call from his wife
saying, you know, he has to gosomewhere.

(07:38):
But miraculously during theinterview, the professor
mentioned so many great thingsabout like the screenplay that I
wrote.
He was like, Oh, it was such agood screenplay.
I really loved it.
And of course I had to say, youknow, I've prepared it for so
long and this has been a verypersonal story.
And he also liked myapplication film, which also was

(07:58):
shot very, gorilla style.
But he said, I think this iskind of important for a lot of,
you know, like film students inhigh school, that it's really
rare to see a student film whereyou really capture the eye of
of your protagonist like whereyou really see through your
protagonist it's mostly you knowlike action or you lose the

(08:19):
moment where you get to sink inwith the protagonist because
you're cutting away or you'reusing loud music or something
and the professor really likedthat there was an honest moment
with the protagonist althoughthe film itself wasn't you know
the best quality it was nice forhim to see something truthful i
think um so i think overallfrom my film school application

(08:41):
what i took away was it doesn'thave to be so elaborate or it
doesn't have to be so fancy youdon't have to really because
when you're working on filmapplications or just any college
applications you know you youmeet with these challenges of
like you feel like you're notsuch an important person or a
special person to reallyembellish yourself or emphasize

(09:05):
certain things.
If you especially had a prettynormal and kind of like
uneventful life, if you're just,you know, a hardworking student
or something like that, youdidn't really have much drama to
write on your college app.
You have this fear that youdon't stand out amongst others.
But to be honest, like as anartist, and as a student trying

(09:26):
to become an artist, I feel likejust being honest and working
on your honest story as much asyou can and telling it in the
most honest fashion is oftenmore acknowledged than you can
imagine.
I love that.
That's beautifully put, yeah.

Speaker 01 (09:43):
That's such a funny story, too.
I know, right?
Sometimes, really, like, thattime pressure puts something on
you that, you know, you justhave to get it done.
And some of the times, it's thebest stuff you've ever

Speaker 00 (09:54):
done.
I mean, I had such a greatstory to talk about, you know,
in, like, the freshmangatherings when everybody was
talking about how long they'vespent preparing for SCA
application.
And I just went, you know,like, three days.
Yeah, what did you talk aboutin that essay, though?
The one that you cranked out inlike three days.
I kind of talked about non-filmstuffs.

(10:16):
How I decided to pursuefilmmaking.
Because my first dream was tobecome the president of South
Korea.
because I was really interestedin like social matters I
watched more news when I waslike age seven because I think
as all Asian dads do they alwayshave to you know tune into the
night news at a certain hour ofthe time so even in my house you

(10:41):
know I'll be watching cartoonsand when it hits the clock like
eight at night then you know theTV has to be the news so I
think I was very aware of whatwas going on socially so I
wanted to do something thatcould do social change.
So politics and politician wassomething that was very
interested early on.
But I think by the age of 10, Irealized the politicians were

(11:04):
kind of the most corrupt people,the most unreliable people in
the world.
So I didn't want to become likethem.
And I didn't have theconfidence that I wouldn't go as
corrupt as them.
So the second option I thoughtthat has as much social
influence was film because Ireally like watching films and I
thought filmmakers were able totell something that could move

(11:25):
people.
So yeah, from then on, I justwent straight into filmmaking
and I just talked all about thaton the application.
The memories of watching thenightly news with my dad and how
that inspired me to you know,writing screenplays and wanted
to become a filmmaker.

Speaker 01 (11:44):
Yeah.
That's great.
I'm curious though.
I, I never really knew whatyour sort of experience was like
as a freshman and sophomore.
So the first half of yourcollege time here, now that
you've made it, you know, thethree-day essay got you in.
What was it like the first twoyears of, you know, adjusting to
this new

Speaker 00 (12:01):
environment where everyone was filmmakers?
I think for our cohort, it waspretty tough because the first
year it was COVID.
So we were all remote.
So I don't think we had thebest experience, but certainly
we had a very unique experiencebecause I don't think, I hope,
the nearest future there won'tbe any cohort that spends their
freshman year online so we werein the situation where we were

(12:24):
still stuck with our you knowcameras like our respective old
cameras to shoot projects forthe freshman curriculum so I
think it was I wouldn't say itwas very positive because I
think everybody had thecollective feeling of
loneliness, feeling of kind ofbeing lost very early on in

(12:48):
freshman year, which is not, Ithink, the most idealistic or
also a common experience becausepeople go out and have fun and
enjoy to the fullest in theirfreshman year.
But for our core, we were stuckin our houses and rooms.
So it felt like an extensionfrom high school.

(13:08):
But also it was it was a timewhere I could really focus on
myself and I think I was able tokind of form more of my Mindset
as a filmmaker because duringthat time I really wanted to go
crazy into filmmaking I had agoal and I and I really

(13:29):
remembered this because I wastalking to someone over the
phone and I and I told thatperson I want to go crazy into
filmmaking like I want to wakeup and think about inspirations.
And I think that kind ofclicked on me.
And since then, like I'll be,you know, taking a shower, you
know, I'll be driving, I'll beconstantly thinking about new

(13:52):
ideas or new stories.
I think that time of, you know,being isolated and being
contained was a good time for meto develop that mindset.
And I think oftentimes being anartist is being alone, being
very isolated, kind of in yourown room and forming these

(14:13):
foundational mindsets andthoughts.
And then you go out and sharewith people.
But just by staying withpeople, I don't think,
especially for me, I can reallyfocus on myself.
So I think in a way that COVIDyear, a freshman year, was a

(14:33):
great year for me too.
of discover who i was andwanted to be um in the sophomore
year i had so much fun um wewere all back in campus and and
i met i met my college friendswho i'm still very good friends
with um and it was one thing ireally wish i would have done

(14:54):
was kind of be more bold intrying things out.
I think I was still prettystuck in the high school mindset
of, you know, just being safe.
I wish I went out more andtried out more stuffs because
you realize after the time haspassed that that time will never
come back.
But then when you're in thatmoment, you take it for granted

(15:18):
because, you know, It's just howit is.
And you kind of forget howgreat that time is.
But sophomore year really was atime where I didn't have any
stress from the real life or hadany obligations or
responsibilities.
There was so much that I couldhave tried.
And I still did try a lot, butI feel like there's always that

(15:39):
feeling of kind of a bit of aremorse that you wish you could
have done more.
Yeah.
So I feel like, yeah, sophomoreyear was a really packed year,
but I really wish I did more interms of just filmmaking or just
finding new people.
So yeah, those were the firsttwo years of my college years.
So on your third year, you had310, right?
Yeah.

(15:59):
What color were you?
Yellow.
You had Gibbler?
Gibbler and Petra.
Oh, how was that?
I think to do great art, youneed a lot of discipline.
And 310 Yellow is all aboutkind of discipline, almost kind
of overtly too much.
And I think it does break a lotof people and it does give a
lot of horrendous experience toa lot of people.

(16:20):
I wasn't excluded from thathorrendous experience.
Although I would say I hadreally great trio mates.
I didn't hate the disciplinebecause setting that discipline
and being very harsh on what youcan do or not kind of gave me
more inspiration on what to do.
I think artists, when they'reboxed in they sometimes come out

(16:41):
with something that they didn'texpect to create or have so
yeah i would say my 310 was afairly positive good experience

Speaker 01 (16:50):
and how did that like urgency help you in the
future like you know because 310we make what three movies in
one semester and you're editingbefore you have to produce again
right you're doing everythingtogether and moving on, you
know, now that you have moreprojects, you know, how did that
inform the creative, um, or, orthe, you know, producing
process for

Speaker 00 (17:10):
you?
I think it helps you buildendurance and endurance is
really key, um, to filmmaking, Ithink.
And just any becoming anartist, I think endurance is key
because you never know whenyou're going to break through.
Um, And you have to endure allthe time to break through.
And if you don't have thepatience, the mentality and

(17:32):
endurance in you, then it'd be avery, very difficult journey.
And 310, since it's a very fastpaced curriculum and high
stress environment, if you don'tendure, then you know that
you're not going to be able topass the class because you can
easily have a mental breakdown,you can easily, you know, fail

(17:53):
your trio mates by kind offailing yourself by skipping a
lot of the obligations that youhave.
I think it teaches youresponsibility through making
you endure.
So I think 310 experience gaveme the mentality to push through

(18:14):
a lot of the struggles that Ifaced later on.
And it taught me the harshreality of filmmaking and kind
of the harsh reality nature ofit but i don't think that's a
negative experience i thinkthat's actually an invaluable
experience to have as an artistand as a filmmaker because
that's the life that you'reexpecting to live for the rest

(18:34):
of your life if you'recontinuing filmmaking and if you
don't have that in you thenit's really hard to continue
doing it that's great and after310 you were on 480 right yeah
480 how was that 480 was i wasfirst 80 on 480 I think I had a
really good 480 experience too.
I think I was very lucky withall my core curriculums because

(18:56):
I had really great people that Iworked with.
There's a difference between agreat artist and a great person.
And it's rarely both.
But when you're working, it'sbetter to have great people than
great artists.
But that's not to say that my480...

(19:17):
The crew were not greatartists.
Eli is someone that I lookforward to and respect a lot.
He has a really nice kind ofperspective.
Yeah, he's the one who won thescreenwriting contest, if you
saw.
I didn't, but is that the one?
Oh, the horror film one.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 01 (19:38):
He made Obligatory.

Speaker 00 (19:39):
Yeah, Eli was the director.
That was in the basement,right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The same basement I shot WhiteLieutenant, I think.
Was it?
Whoa, really?
I didn't know that.
I think it was Jin on thatproject.
Yeah.
He texted me.
He was like, yo, this is wherethey shot Obligatory.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was like, that's crazy.
Well, there you go.
That's crazy because I found alocation.
No way.
So it's a full circle moment.

(19:59):
You found a location and nowDarren has his 310.
It's a golden location,although it's very musty inside.
No, because the 310, another310 P1 also shot there.
Really?
And then another 310 shotthere.
And then this semester, another310 shot there.
It's a lovely location.
It's the only location that hasthat kind of style.

(20:19):
Did you find it on Geekster?
Yeah.
Wow.
I was just scrolling throughlike doom scrolling Geekster and
I found it.
Wow.
And now it's become like theprestige yes i guess that's
awesome it's great um but yeahobligatory was a great
experience because um eli issuch a competent filmmaker who
knows what he's doing and iworked as a first ad and as a

(20:40):
first ad if the director knowswhat he's doing and he's able to
pace himself then you knowthere isn't a better director to
work for um and producers werelovely producer was sofia and
yuan um Sophia is such a greatfriend.
My three-tenths tree worked onthe same 480.
So Graham was sound and Sophiawas producer.
And so...

(21:01):
It was just like a 310 gettogether again.
We had so much fun on set andall my best friends from film
school, Elgin and Daniel, werealso part of the crew.
I was there for one day.
It was sometimes terriblebecause we joked around so much
and we didn't get anything done.
As first AD, you need your crewto listen to you, but my

(21:23):
friends didn't have any respectfor me.
Sometimes it was tough, but Ithink I had a really good 4AD
experience.
That At that time, you alreadystarted

Speaker 01 (21:33):
on Hermit Crab, which you kind of started in
summer, the summer before 480,which was summer of 23?

Speaker 00 (21:43):
Is that right?
Summer of 23, yeah.

Speaker 01 (21:44):
That's right.
And I remember I was drivingone day and I saw you on your
bicycle and I just texted you.
I was like, wait, was that youat the US Village?
And then there you were.
And then I think that's whatkind of sparked the first
conversation about, you know,starting your own project.
Yeah, walk us through what thatwas like and having that
initial idea.

(22:05):
So now, I mean, for those whodon't know, I mean, the film is
made and it's finished and it'salready in the festival circuit.
Right.
So just give us a rundown

Speaker 00 (22:14):
of how that was like I always thought I had to make
something before I graduate likea thesis level type of film and
480 was coming up on thehorizon and I applied as a
director but unfortunately Ididn't get in I wasn't

(22:35):
shortlisted and I think I gotvery salty over that and I was
already in the works of writingas one does always.
And with that great saltinessin the deep heart of mine, I
think it sparked something inme.
It was more like rage.
It was a lot of rage that I waslike, I didn't get in.

(22:58):
I'll show you what I can do.
Fine, I'll do it myself.
Yeah, literally.
And I think sometimes thatfeeling is necessary for you to
really get out of the bed andstart something.
Because I think starting ashort film is like starting a
small company.
You need a lot of people.
You need a lot of money.
You need a lot of time.

(23:19):
And there's a lot of stressThat's hammering you down.
And if you don't have a verystrong motivation to keep
yourself up and continueworking, grinding, it's really
hard to make it through at anystage.
So I think that was kind of theinitial motivation.

(23:41):
And I really wanted to break mycomfort zone and get myself out
there.
So I started with...
friends and and i didn't knowyou so well back then richard
but i knew you wanted to producesomething and i didn't want to
have the most experiencedproducer because um i don't

(24:04):
think i've ever like disclosedany of these but i was really
thinking hard about my producingteam.
And I wanted to have a goodbalance of experienced
producers, passionate producers,creative producers, and people
producers.
And it's really hard to havethat combination because they

(24:26):
all have very different rolesand specialties.
Because I think as students,none of us are perfect
filmmakers.
None of us are perfectlyequipped with all the skills
that are necessary to become...
a good person in that givenposition.
So for me, it was reallyimportant to have a producing
team that were, you know,diversely skilled and also have

(24:51):
a good chemistry.
So I think I was very selectivein who I was reaching out to
and I had a good reason forreaching out to and I think I
reached out to you and Elginfirst because Elgin was someone
that I could consult in terms ofstory probably like most
comfortably and you were someonewho was so passionate about

(25:12):
filmmaking that I knew thathaving you on board would keep
me passionate and continue goingthrough and eventually so um
and then daniel and leah joinedand daniel is someone who's you
know very disciplined and who'svery hard at working and leah is
someone who's really good withpeople and and jiang joined too

(25:36):
and jiang is someone you knowwho knows a lot of filmmaking
techniques oh yeah i mean he hasa whole youtube channel who has
a lot of experience so jiangwas more of the experienced guy
you know who had a lot ofexperience um So I think, and
eventually I think our producingteam worked really well because
I don't think we had anyconflicts.
No, it was very collaborative.

Speaker 01 (25:58):
I mean, there were definitely like, Daniel was
definitely the more, you know,upfront about certain things he
felt.
And we all had our ownopinions, but I thought it was a
really great collaborativeenvironment where we felt free
to express certain things.
Most of the time it's positive,but if we had a really serious
note about a story beat orsomething in logistics, we were

(26:21):
free to just bring that to thetable and no one would feel like
they were offended or anything.
Everyone's working

Speaker 00 (26:28):
in the same direction and that's such a
huge...
And I think that's reallyimportant in terms of the
producing and the directing teambecause you have to be
collaborative and you have to behelping each other out.
And it's really difficultwhen...
everybody has their own ego andeverybody has a say that they
really want to keep it in thefilm.
Then it becomes very, verydisoriented.

(26:51):
And I feel like all of us werereally good listeners and really
good motivators that I feellike we worked really well with
each other.
No, I remember that one.
I think he reached out to meover the summer and I just woke
up one morning, got a text.
He's like, yo, you want toassociate produce something?
And I like just screenshot it.
I'm like, yo, wait, hold up.

(27:12):
This is going to be somethingcool.
Like, you know, end to end.
And this is the beginning ofthe journey.
Right.
And I was just like, that wasthe first time I really
associate produced something.
And it was just such a greatexperience, like working with
such a talented group ofproducers.
And it was like an actualproducing team.
Right.
And I think I learned so muchfrom everybody on this project.

Speaker 01 (27:34):
Me too.
It was like the second projectI produced after producing
Jiayang's film.
I think I just fell in lovewith the idea of having someone
really talented have a scriptthat I connect to and I see a
clear vision to.
And then being the person whogoes, you know what, I think I
might have the ability and theresources and the skills

(27:54):
necessary to pull it togetherand just bring that thing from
zero to one, from nothing tosomething.
Right.
And I really felt like a deepconnection to producing when I
finished Missing at Sea.
And then when you reached out,it felt like a perfect, like, it
was like a God-given thing thatwas like, yeah, absolutely.
Like, let me do this thing.
Like, it's like a gift.
It really felt like a gift.

(28:15):
And short films, they're calledshort films, but the journey is
not short.
So how, I mean, gosh, westarted Summer of 23, right?
And now it's already early 25.
Yeah.
And...
It's a lot of time.
Yeah.

(28:35):
Walk us through, I mean, thewhole, you know, prep process to
production and then now post.
What were some of, like, thechallenges and what are some of
the ways that you, I guess,overcame those challenges with
the team or with yourself?

Speaker 00 (28:49):
It was a time when I didn't know a lot of people.
So, for me, the biggest...
problem that I too or likebiggest homework that I had was
finding a group of people wherewe all believe in the project
and and have fun working on it Ithink that was my biggest

(29:12):
homework to make everyone feelconnected to the project and
have the best time or notnecessarily the best time, but
just have a really memorableexperience, something that you
can gain out of.
Because I think all projectsare inherently selfish and for

(29:33):
your own good, because it's yourstory and you're coming up with
it.
And it's what defines you as anartist.
And I also think being anartist is a very selfish journey
because it's about findingyourself and then sharing that
to others.
But when a group of peoplestart to believe in your selfish

(29:56):
project and kind of associatethemselves as one, then I feel
like there isn't a more powerfuland more...
amazing project than that sothat was that was kind of my
aspiration going topre-production so i think i

(30:17):
tried really hard to find theright people the people that i
can continue working after thisproject and now that everything
has passed i think i canfortunately say that i found the
people that i can rely on andwork with um and i think i just
have to say that's a very rareexperience to have to have

(30:39):
people that you can trust andand be very comfortable with and
people who who root for youlike from the bottom bottom of
their heart and the people thatyou also root for from the
bottom bottom of your heart ithink i think that's a very
difficult relationship to haveum and with hermit crab

(31:00):
especially I don't think it's afilm that lasts.
It's the people that last.
So it was something that was...
That was the latter wassomething was...
That was something I was reallylooking into.
It wasn't the film that...
Of course, I wanted the film todo great, but it wasn't the
film that was the priority.
It was to find a group ofpeople that...

(31:21):
can be with for the rest of mycareer um so that was the
emphasis of the pre-productionprocess and it was long it was
like yeah six seven months rightcreatively just like drilling
yeah creatively and creativelythe the script was really
difficult to lock in because Ithink as all anxious filmmakers

(31:43):
are, they get very influenced bya lot of different people
around you.
And it's really hard to trustyour vision because, you know,
who are you to really have somuch trust in your vision?
You know, you're notChristopher Nolan or Denis
Villeneuve.
You're not an accomplishedfilmmaker.
So when people around you onyour same level are giving you
advice and you're naturallylistening to them and getting

(32:04):
affected because you don't havethat credibility in you.
So I think for me, it took...
a long time for me to get ascript that I liked and also
other people liked.
And I'm not sure if that's thebest result to gain out of.
Sometimes you just have to, youknow, go with the vision, trust

(32:25):
it, and then lock it and kindof say, you know, thank you for
your opinion, but I value mine.
Sometimes you have to do that.
But other times, because, youknow, film is just, the nature
of it is collaborative.
You also have to listen toothers.
So, It was also a process forme to learn the balance of that,
to learn what to listen andalso what to not listen to.

(32:46):
So I think it was a goodprocess, but that took about six
or seven months.
And I think now if I were tostart another project, I
wouldn't be investing that muchtime into pre-production or I
wouldn't be investing that muchtime into just fine-tuning the
script.
I think I would be investingmore time into...

(33:06):
getting the gist of the storyand translating that into the
visual medium.
I think I'll be focusing moreon that.
But yeah, because it was, youknow, first project, there was a
lot to think about and alsomeeting a lot of different
people.
That takes a lot of time.
Finding the right cast.
That takes a lot of time.
Finding new locations.

(33:27):
Like if you're a first timefilmmaker, all of these take a
long time because you don't knowwhere you're heading.
And And to gain the trust onwhat you're doing, I think it
takes a lot of time to do it.
And especially if this is thefirst time making your film, I
think you should take that muchtime.
Whether that takes a year ortwo, nobody's pressuring you to

(33:47):
make the film.
You're the one who's pressuringyourself to make the film.
So as long as you can stayconnected and focused, I think
as much time as possible isgreat for first-time filmmaking.
But just be aware that thepeople around you might not
feeling the same.
So you just have to be...
That's why it's important tofind those people.

(34:08):
Yeah, more open to that.
And production was fun.
It was very stressful, but fun.
I think the moment that Irealized I should stay as a
filmmaker was when I was workingon my 310 and I was on set and
I was directing something andthen I took a break and I felt

(34:30):
my heart pouncing.
And I felt alive, like trulyalive.
Like, oh, wow, this is what Ilove and this is what I should
stay with.
And I feel like if you'redirecting on set, you feel that.
When you're seeing the stuffthat were in your head happen in

(34:52):
front of you, you feel theheart pouncing and you feel your
blood's rushing down your veinand you feel alive.
Yeah.
And I think that's a magicalfeeling that makes you endure
the struggles that comes withfilmmaking.
It's kind of like a drug to beon that set.
And of course, there are somany decisions and a lot of like

(35:17):
unexpected things that werehappening on set.
I think that gave me a lot ofinspiration and toughened me to
become more mentally stable andand and clear with my vision.
Because when you'reencountering obstacles that if
you don't find a solution rightaway, then your entire film can

(35:40):
break down, then it reallyclears your mind.
I think it kind of goes back tomy college application when I
was cornered with that threedays.
It clears up your mind and kindof shows you the only answer
that you can follow.
And that moment happened on thelast day of set We were filming
our ending.

(36:01):
And, you know, there's no filmwithout an ending.
But the location that I got, itwas like a very, very ghetto-y
bus station.
And there were a lot ofhomeless people around and very
dangerous for everybody.

(36:21):
But we had to get this lastshot.
But the location turned outsomething that I didn't expect
like the lighting was terriblesecurity was really bad there
were police you know drivingaround and we didn't have a
permit so it was very risky andeverybody was just feeling you
know not it about this locationthe DP and I were just like yeah

(36:45):
this is this is not right forthe final scene of the film and
but then, you know, I was goingthrough a very quick breakdown
because like mental breakdown,because if I don't have an
ending and my first AD is beinglike, Justin, you have 30
minutes.
Um, and everybody's freezingoutside.
Like, what do I do?

(37:06):
Like I spent this much money.
I've spent this much time.
I've worked with this manypeople.
And at the end of the day, likefinal day of production, I
failed to shoot the last scene.
I don't have the film.
Like, what do I do?
Um, but this bus station so ithas first floor and then second
floor so second floor is the busstation the first floor is kind

(37:28):
of the staircase and thestaircase was the place i was
having in mind because it waslike very dark and dirty and it
was kind of the vibe that i waslooking for but since it didn't
work out i went to the secondfloor and it miraculously had
this very good lighting that youdon't need additional lighting
it would just look good And justlike the vibe of the place,

(37:51):
when the DP and I went up, wejust both immediately looked at
each other and we were like,yep, this is it.
Let's bring the camera andshoot it.
So we did, I think we got liketwo shots from that location.
And initially we had so manydifferent shots for that
location, but because homelesspeople like, you know, cracking

(38:12):
meth and like right next to us,like we knew we couldn't spend
that much time.
So we did this one one-er,but...
it miraculously worked outreally well.
And the DP and I felt like,wow, this was movie magic.
This was something that we'dnever expected to happen, but it
turned out so well that I thinkthat moment was kind of the

(38:36):
most exciting and the most rawmoment I had from that
production experience.
It was such a moment of luck,but I think that's what it takes
when you're doing films.
Like, You prep so much, youexpect so much, but then you
still encounter all theseunexpected variables.
And sometimes you need thegrace of luck to push through.

(38:58):
But when it happens, there isno better feeling than that.
That seems to be

Speaker 01 (39:05):
a recurring theme among filmmakers.
It's just accepting accidentsand happy accidents.
Not all of them are happy, butonce something really works out,
it feels like...
Everything just comes together

Speaker 00 (39:18):
in a really special way.
I think an important skilltrait too is, so when that
happens, you have to beopen-minded.
You have to know so much aboutyour film that when that
accident happens, you know howto integrate that into the film.
And I think that's kind of thereason for a lot of prep.
Because once you've done thatmuch work, then...

(39:40):
you already have the film inyour head.
So it's not the location orit's not the certain weather
that's necessary for your film.
It's just whatever's there,then you know how to make it
into a film.
And I think that's a veryimportant skill trait because
especially as indie filmmakers,you're not in the most desirable

(40:01):
conditions.
You're not working on sets.
You're not able to control alot of things and you kind of
have to make your surroundingssomehow into your film.
And if you don't have that openmindset, if you don't have that
amount of prep, if you don'thave the amount of knowledge
that you have about your ownfilm, then the chances are
you're not gonna be utilizingall of the surroundings that are

(40:23):
gifted to you to the best ofyour ability.
And I think that mindset andthat clear vision is very
important for you to embracethat luck and make it for your
own good.
Yeah, you know that trainstation, that subway station
location?
As sketchy as it was, I wentback there a few weeks later to

(40:43):
shoot another film.
Really?
Because I was like, yeah, thisplace is sick.
Yeah, it's a really nicelocation.
I'll show you the film later,City of Meat.
You don't need much lighting.
There are cars going in andout.
It was kind of metaphoric too.
That's how you find metaphors.
This is so interesting.
You're finding locations thatJaehyung used.
This is the second one for me.

(41:04):
I'm sprinkling locations now.
I think I find a lot ofinterest in people that are at
their most vulnerable state andwhether they get out of their
vulnerable state or deepen in itI feel like there is something
about people that you learn somuch when you're really putting

(41:26):
your lens into that situationand I think it teaches me a lot
about people and how we navigatelives yeah i do wonder because
the hermit crab movie is verysimilar to that yeah right um
and i remember when i asked youlike why you were making the
film you were saying it was alot of your fears of like
leaving college into the realworld and your fears of like you

(41:49):
know having to deal with thosethings so i do wonder like is it
what you imagine you knowfinishing film school and then
going into like the job marketand everything like is that what
you thought it would be or whatare some things you realized
post-grad definitely humbles youa lot i think i think a lot of
people go through like identitycrisis a lot of mental crisis um

(42:13):
because it's it's not what youexpect right out of the blue and
i think especially college issuch a safe and welcoming
environment where you're withyour peers and you feel like
you're something You feel likeyou're something because you're
surrounded by people who alsofeel like you're something and
they're dreaming and, you know,they're all talking about things

(42:33):
they want to do.
And there are also a lot ofthings that you're doing, but
once post-grad hits and you kindof derail from the ideal path
that a lot of people recognizeas ideal path, which I think is
inherent with filmmaking, thenyou realize the harshness of

(42:53):
life and kind of, how it shapesyou as an individual.
And for some reason, I alwaysthink my films, the works that I
do, are kind of predictions ofwho I am going to be.
My 310 film was a prediction ofwho I was going to be after my
breakup.
And Hermit Crab, I think, isalso a film about breakup, but I
think in large scope, it'sabout a man whose life is

(43:18):
crumbling down and he's goingthrough it and he just wants
kind of a breath of relief.
And I think that's what I'mgoing through or most people go
through after post-grad.
They feel like the life thatthey lived is very separate from
the post-grad life and thereality of getting rejected from

(43:39):
stuff that you thought you weregoing to get into or not living
just a happy, joyful life.
Dealing with real strugglesreally shapes you into someone
that becomes more of a realistand humbles you.
I think humbling is the bestword to use because it really

(43:59):
humbles you to look at the worldin a larger scope.
You know, you're not now insuch an narrow-minded where you
define success with, you know,few words, but post-grad teaches
you that, you know, Successisn't what most people define as
they are.
There are a lot of ways todefine success and there are a

(44:20):
lot of ways to make a living andcontinue what you want to do.
So, yeah.

Speaker 01 (44:27):
Yeah, no, definitely.
Do you feel like

Speaker 00 (44:29):
what are some things you learned that helped you get
over a lot of the mentalturmoil of post-grad life?
I think it's just all aboutsetting the mindset, the right
mindset.
I think mindset is so importantbecause to do something that

(44:49):
you want to do, that you're sopassionate about, whether that's
filmmaking or starting abusiness or doing something that
requires a lot of strength fromyou, you have to be sort of
delusional.
very, very confident and very,very hopeful about things.
And if you're not doing that,then the reality will strike you

(45:13):
because the reality willconstantly grab you and say
you're not going to do it.
Find a way to live morecomfortably.
Just follow whatevereverybody's doing.
But then to do something thatyou want to do, you have to say
no immediately.
I want to do this because Iknow I can do it.
And I think that's the mostdifficult part with post-grad

(45:37):
because you're constantly in asituation where it's really hard
to tell yourself that whatyou're doing is right.
What you're doing willeventually have results.
It's really hard to say thatbecause you're surrounded by
people who are getting theresults that you want to get or
who are living comfortablelives.
And And you kind of get intothe path where you want to chase

(46:01):
that path.
But then you just have to, youknow, pull yourself back and say
that, you know, I have a dreamand I really want to chase this.
So I think it's all aboutgetting that mindset of, you
know, sort of being theillusional, but, but, but
trusting in what you're doingand, and thinking life as

(46:22):
something that's, you know, notshort, but very long.
Um, 10 years, 20 years, it maytake 30 years.
But eventually, if you get todo what you want to do, then I
think that's worth it.
Because you only get to liveonce.
And if you were to die withoutaccomplishing what you really

(46:44):
want to do in life, then I feellike if I were to regret on my
deathbed, that would be so much.
at the end of my life and idon't want to go through that
and i think you just have toconstantly remind that to
yourself and stay very positivei think i think i think falling
into the negativity which is soeasy to do um especially as

(47:06):
artists when you're veryself-critical and you're faced
with a lot of criticisms it's soeasy to fall into negativity
you have to get out of therelike you have to force yourself
out of there and just tellyourself you're a genius know
your genius filmmaker yourscreenplay is so good but it's
just people are stupid andthey're not recognizing it um so

(47:28):
you have to constantly tellyourself these things or or else
you you you'll find yourselfquickly in the gut gutter um
self-loathing and going throughsome ugly path i think it's just
so easy to go fall into thatself like when you don't believe
in yourself anymore yeah youknow self-doubt you write a

(47:50):
script and you're like am i evenmeant to be a filmmaker right
you know and then it's like solike mentally taxing because you
know one day or actually youknow like one morning you're
you're like feeling like oh ican do this like i'm such a
great filmmaker you know iwatched my film last night and
so good and then by evening youknow you're writing a screenplay

(48:11):
and you're like this is badlike what am i doing and then
you know And then you got todinner and you're eating with
your parents and then you kindof notice their gaze and you're
like, oh, I just wear a badscreenplay.
I don't know what I'm doing.
I feel like I'm letting themdown.
I feel like I'm letting myselfdown and unemployment is real.
And am I going to be livingthis life for the rest of my

(48:34):
life?
And that's a very long time.
And all these fears reallyeasily come to you.
Yeah.
But then again, the nextmorning you wake up and you're
like, I feel like I got this.
So it's like really easy to getto this path of, you know,
mentally very split state thatis very taxing.
So it's just, it's just nice tostop thinking, stop worrying

(48:59):
and get your mind straight andjust, just really trust.
And yeah.
And also think that a lot offilmmakers that you love have
walked on the similar mentalstruggling path and just
continue doing it.
What are some like

Speaker 01 (49:13):
practical steps you take to, you know, keep going at
it?
I mean, keep writing, eventhough, you know, the page might
be not so great that you'reself-critical and how do you,
what are some ways that you keepyourself busy

Speaker 00 (49:26):
creatively?
I think you got to keep a jobthat, you know, It's not so
related to filmmaking or anycreative stuff, but just
something that you canrepeatedly do.
It might not have to be a job.
It might be a workout or itmight be whatever activity it

(49:47):
is.
Something that keeps yourmental state healthy.
Something that you just exhaustyourself, not thinking about
films or anything else.
You know, self-hatred regardingjust keeping yourself busy in
something, I think, has beenvery helpful for me in keeping
my mental state peaceful.

(50:07):
And when you're encounteringissues with writing or creative
stuff, for me, my preferred wayis to keep pushing it until I
get an answer.
And it's a very painfulprocess, to be honest.
It takes a lot of mentalstruggle, time, and I have to go

(50:29):
through so many differentthought processes.
But then I think that's alsothe fun of the job, getting
really deep into what you'recreating and pushing yourself
until you find something thatyou kind of like.
And I think that's a verynecessary step.

(50:50):
Nobody's that talented to belike, they write something and
it's already so great.
Most of the times what youwrite, even until the end when
you lock the script, there'ssomething that you hate about.
But you just have to constantlypush yourself until you get to
the point where you cannot writeanything more about what you're

(51:10):
writing.
And I think I get satisfactionfrom that.
So that's the only way I keepmyself motivated.
If I don't push myself rightnow, then what am I doing?
I've worked so hard to become afilmmaker, but now I'm not
doing it because I'm lazy.
That kind of feels verycontrasting for me.

(51:30):
And it's betraying on myself.
So I think you just have toconstantly push yourself until
you get something that you'resatisfied with.
Although that's very difficult.
And make yourself think, if I'mnot doing this, then I'm not
doing anything.
Yeah.
And I feel like you have somuch like knowledgeable on like

(51:50):
the mental health aspect of it.
And you have a lot of likephilosophies on how you approach
creativity, right?
Yeah.
And I'm just curious, likewhat, you know, where did you
learn all this from?
Um, first thing I was veryinterested in philosophy.
Like I'm still very interested.
Um, and I think it really helpsas a writer, um, And when

(52:12):
you're looking at things, youkind of look at it with reason
and with a new perspective.
But also, as I mentionedearlier, a lot of just spending
time alone and thinking aboutdifferent things, thinking about
yourself really helps.
Nowadays, it's been kind ofshower or driving.
That's been helping me withthat alone time.

(52:35):
But getting comfortable withbeing alone, getting comfortable
with...
spending a lot of time thinkingabout the stuff that you have
to think about by yourself.
I think that's a challenge fora lot of people, like being in
that state, but as an artist andalso for a good mental state, I

(52:56):
think it's important becauseit's hard to keep your mental
state healthy by sharing so muchabout it with others.
When you're sharing withothers, you're sharing what
you've learned.
You're not improving yourmental state because the chances
are you're kind of exhaustingyour psychological, physical

(53:17):
energy with them, especiallyjust in my perspective.
So I feel like it's imperativeto get to know how to become
comfortable with yourself.
And I think college is a placethat doesn't teach you.
how to get to that statebecause there's just so many
people and there's so manyattractions but it's true a lot

(53:38):
of people spend a lot of timesin their dorms because not all
of us you know are you know likesuper big on parties or super
big on get-togethers some peopleare introverted and a lot of
people have to spend timestudying or doing what they have
to do and colleges don't reallyprepare you mentally how to get
comfortable with that so ithink a lot of people fall into

(53:59):
depression or lot of just uglythoughts because they're
spending so much time alone andthey equate that as falling
behind yeah and i think that'sso wrong i think you know
spending time alone and beingcomfortable with it is the
greatest strength that you canhave in living today's society
because so many peopleabsolutely are not comfortable
with that and once you'recomfortable with that then

(54:20):
you're comfortable with spendingmore time with other people and
being an individual yourself umSo yeah, I think I've spent a
lot of time, especially in thelatter years of my college, when
personal relationships weregetting more scarce and I was
getting more into my filmmakingprocess.
I think I spent a lot of timejust mentally toughening myself

(54:45):
and finding activities and timesthat I can really enjoy just
being alone.
getting my stuff together youknow the other day I was driving
back home from my internshipand it's a long car drive it's
very crowded traffic you know inLA sucks and I was just really

(55:05):
for the first time I turned offmy car or like the radio on it
because every time I would belistening to podcasts and stuff
and for the first time I wasdriving in silence just thinking
about like new movie ideas andjust like things I want to tell
stories about and I was able tocome up with so many ideas on
that car drive back and it justshows that when you're actively

(55:27):
thinking about things like thatright you know your brain comes
up with all these creative ideasand i think right now there's
just so much distractions outthere yeah you know there's
instagram social media youtubeeverything is just constantly
blasting at you and when you arejust passively taking these
things in you just are neverable to really come up with
these creative ideas so i lovewhat you just you know said

(55:50):
about that i mean there's somefilmmakers that i always you
watch their interviews foradvice and screenwriting.
And I think it was Paul ThomasAnderson who said, you have to
get yourself up to your laptopor a paper to write, or it won't
come to you.
If a genius like Paul ThomasAnderson says that, then I feel

(56:13):
like that just explainseverything.
I feel like it's really hardfor you to come up with an idea
or story when you're notactively searching for it.
Which was the point that I madewith when I wanted to become
crazy with movies.
It was that kind of a mentalstate where I just wanted to
actively find stuff to talkabout even when I'm not in that

(56:38):
zone.
I feel like a lot of people saythat that zone doesn't come to
me or it's hard to find thatthat state but to be honest you
really have to struggle to findthat state or it won't come to
you you have to find the time todo it but I feel like a lot of

(56:59):
us kind of skip on thediscovering part the finding the
time part and just expect stuffto happen but filmmaking and
art and just in life likenothing just comes to you and if
something just comes to youthen chances are it's not the
best opportunity and i feel likea lot of the great
opportunities are created byyourself or created through hard

(57:21):
work with like-minded people soum yeah i feel like just
finding time as you said whetherin your car or shower or your
bedroom just finding the timeand space to really get down to
ideas is very important iactually just started some doing

Speaker 01 (57:40):
something um so like every morning i wake up and i
set like a timer for 10 minutesand i just like write down
whatever i don't care if it'spoetry if it's just literally
what's on my mind um or like ohi'm excited to see this movie
like it could be anything andjust for those 10 minutes i feel
like i'm able to dump out somuch just like a distraction or

(58:04):
just like mental um energy thatI would spend during my day
thinking about.
And I just spend that 10minutes and try to splash them
all on there.
Some of the time there's somegreat, you know, story ideas,
like Diane said, where it justpops up in your head.
And a lot of times when you goby your day, like you have that

(58:25):
idea, but it just disappearsbecause you got busy with
something else.
And so I found that to bereally helpful.
Like you just, like a lot oftimes for me too, like I, it's
hard for me to really startwriting because I'm also such a
perfectionist, but that giveslike that safety net of like,
okay, for these 10 minutes, itcould either just be, you know,

(58:47):
writing down my doubts or itcould just be screenwriting 10
minutes of dumping out ideasthat I have about this story
idea or, um, that one, or itcould be, you know, a childhood
memory.
And so I think that's somethingthat I found useful is just
have that pocket of time whereyou're just, um, free to do
whatever you know whether it'swriting right creating

Speaker 00 (59:08):
and i think that's what's so great about post-grad
because you have so much timeyou have so much time to
actually do what you want to dowow yeah and and if you're
negatively seeing that then youcould be like oh i have so much
time like i should be working ishould be doing something that
makes you money or elevates mysomething but if you see it in a

(59:31):
positive view then that time,that amount of time that you're
given at this moment is such avaluable amount of time that you
can spend into doing somethingthat you want to do.
And yeah, absolutely.
Like you need, you need so muchtime to get down to what you
want to do and you have toactively create that time.

(59:53):
Right.
And it's like, if you don'tcast the fishing line, you won't
catch the fish.
Yeah.
And as the late David Lynchsaid, if you, if you have a
great idea in mind and you don'twrite it down and you forget
you know you want to commitsuicide yeah yeah he said that
on multiple occasions yeah thisis like one of his famous quotes

(01:00:14):
i think i really feel that youknow yeah it's so hard to have a
great idea because it justtakes so much time and and it's
not just about having a greatidea after you have a great idea
how do you develop intosomething That also takes a lot
of time.
I feel like oftentimes we thinkabout a great idea and we get
so excited over the fact that wehave a great idea that we kind

(01:00:36):
of lose it.
But it really matters how youdeal with that great idea and
then develop into the finishedproject.
And that takes a lot of time.
In fact, if you're a filmmakerand you're in post-grad right
now and you're so scared of allthe time that you have and you
feel like you're so lost and Ifeel like just...

(01:00:57):
get back to the page and write.
And there's the possibility,there's the way out.
And even if it doesn't workout, then write another page and
there's another way out.
I feel like as artists, that'ssuch a great thing about what we
do.
We create our ways out.
We create our own success.
We create our career.

(01:01:19):
And I think that's what's sogreat about it.
And you can always just go backto the page and write and start
a new direction.
And earlier you talked aboutdreams, right?
And you are chasing this dream.
What is your dream?
Because I'm assuming you wantto be a director, but also I
want you to expand on that.

(01:01:39):
What kind of a director or whatkind of other things are you
chasing?
I think this is kind of funnybecause my ultimate goal that I
always said a long time ago wassomething so far from film.
It was having a bed andbreakfast.
after retirement.
Because I really like cooking.

(01:02:01):
And I just thought it would beso nice to have your kids and
your partner and have a bed andbreakfast and have new guests
come in.
They'll all be working indifferent professions and doing
different things, knowingdifferent things about life.
And you cook a good meal everynight and talk.
And I felt like it would be anice way to just spend a good

(01:02:24):
chunk of my last...
few years in life doing thatthat's amazing but in terms of
filmmaking i think it's aboutcreating something that that
lasts i've always beenmesmerized by the idea of
something that lasts and i thinkthat's also like as artists
what we always chase for likeyour work lasting longer than

(01:02:48):
who you are um and your workrepresenting yourself like if
you think about it like we'redirectors, but if you're an
actor or if you're a musician, Italked about this with my
partner recently, especially ifyou're a musician, you're
singing and you have your songson Spotify or Apple Music, and

(01:03:10):
people from across the globelisten to you.
You're in South Korea, Seoul,in your car, and you're
listening to kendrick lamarkendrick lamar is there yeah
like he's speaking even if he'syou know like several years
later like even if he passesaway he's still there if you if

(01:03:33):
you start listening to his musici think that's such a
mesmerizing kind of concept andi think that's so great about
art that it lives outlives youand it still represents you and
you're alive there yeah and ithink for me as an artist, as a
filmmaker, it's my kind ofdesired path to make something

(01:03:57):
that lasts and means a lot forpeople, which was kind of the
reason I wanted to become afilmmaker, to influence people
and give kind of more of asocial change.
And I think I've always beeninterested in talking about
people who are lost and peoplewho are, you know, like kind of

(01:04:17):
overshadowed by others.
And I think creating filmsabout them and having them last
will help people as they did asthe films of those subject
matters helped me to kind offeel like they're not so alone
and they're being heard so Ithink yeah that's not so I'm not

(01:04:40):
so greedy about awards orgreedy about like financial
gains but But I'll be happy if,you know, somebody watched my
movie and went like, oh, yeah,that's like my top three.
I feel like that'd be such anhonor to have.
Yeah.
I'm

Speaker 01 (01:04:58):
taking Daniel Noah's class right now, which you
took.
And one of the reasons I tookit was because you and Daniel
recommended it.
But one of the things, one ofthe stories he told, which I'm
sure you heard the story aswell, was...
when his film Mandy which heproduced premiered I think at
Sundance or whatever and hedidn't know how people were

(01:05:20):
going to react and he was onstage he just did a quick Q&A
and he was about to step downthis really sort of shy girl
came up to him I'm sure he'stold the same exact story but
like she wasn't sure like how togo about it and he was like no
no no it's okay like what areyou trying to you know say and
she just went I thought I wasthe only one who felt that way

(01:05:40):
this is my favorite movie And Ithink she just left or
something.
And then that had a profoundimpact on Daniel who produced
the movie because he realizedthat all this time and effort
into creating a film and artthat nobody knows was ever going
to have any kind of real impacton people and that all of a

(01:06:04):
sudden this person comes up toyou and goes, that's the best
thing I've seen because Ifelt...
there's that piece of me that'sin there.
And that's just such aincredible feeling.
I think we're all chasing afterthat to have that impact that's
larger than you and yourphysical self.

Speaker 00 (01:06:23):
And I think that's a very important thing to think
about and chase, but also yougot to think about, so if that's
where you want to go, If thoseare the films that you want to
make and have that much meaningto the audience, then you also
got to think of yourself as afilmmaker because that's a lot

(01:06:45):
of responsibility to bear, to beable to tell the stories, to be
able to make those films.
You can't just spend suchlittle time mastering your craft
and make a film and expect itto be something special.
I feel like to make somethingthat lasts, it takes that much
time.
And it requires that much of athought process.

(01:07:08):
And all in all, that comes downto sincerity.
And I feel like that'softentimes what's not so taught
by film schools or oftentimesnot something that we think
about.
Sincerity is, I think, a veryimportant thing to have in with
you as you're approaching yourfilm, writing your film.

(01:07:28):
Yeah.
And I mean, there's so manyreasons why personal films are
doing so well these days becausepersonal films are just
inherently sincere to you.
But there is a limit to tellingjust pure personal stories.
But then how do you make eachsubject, each film personal to
you?
And it's giving that sincerity.

(01:07:50):
But to be able to give thatsincerity, I think it just takes
a lot of time to...
to study the craft, to reallyget yourself into writing
something that feels truthful toyou.
And it's so easy to say like,oh, this sounds truthful or like
this is truthful, but it takestime for you to really feel that

(01:08:15):
this work is truthful andhonest to you.
And I think that only comeswith some struggles, like
personal struggles.
You have to go through some.
You sometimes have to hit themental gutter to be able to know
oh, this is a sincere story.
Because, yeah, I feel like it'snot something that you just get
out of immediately.

(01:08:35):
Just because you decide to dofilm doesn't mean that you're on
the level where you can be themost sincere and the most
thoughtful with your works.
Oftentimes, it's so easy tojust do things because they look
just cool, do things becauseothers are doing things which is

(01:08:56):
kind of the reason I'm not soproud of all the works that I've
done so far, because I feellike they were mostly just
adaptations of works that Ireally liked, mixed with my own
feelings and thoughts anddirections, but I don't think
they were super sincere in termsof the craft and how I came up
with it.
So I think that's kind of whatI'm working on now, finding that

(01:09:19):
sincerity and finding thatdepth that...
that is very important in termsof what we do.
And I think that also sets youapart as a filmmaker.
I think all the filmmakers thatwe love have their own
sincerity and depth to it thatreally tells us that it's their
film and it's their voice.
No, absolutely.

(01:09:41):
And what are some stuff you'reworking on?
What are you writing right now?
I'm currently working on ashort film.
It's called I Live Inside theCabinet.
It's kind of a...
surrealistic dark comedy typeof film that speaks on kind of
the housing issues that we havein LA.
I feel like house is somethingthat molds you into a specific

(01:10:07):
person.
And especially living in ametropolis, whether that's LA,
New York, Hong Kong, Seoul,Japan, Tokyo, the housing
conditions are quite dire forpeople who are not wealthy.
And especially in LA, the rentis like $3,000, like $2,000,
$3,000.
And that's almost impossiblefor just average worker, average

(01:10:32):
person to be paying off everymonth.
But then we're forced into thatsituation.
And if we don't, then we'reforced into very, very...
difficult living conditions.
And there is a reason we'reseeing so many homeless
population, so many people wholive in their cars in LA.
And I think just as a society,that's so wrong.

(01:10:54):
And I think it's ridiculous,but because it's so ridiculous,
there's kind of humor to it andcomedy to it.
And that's what I love aboutdark comedy and mixing
surrealistic genre with it.
So currently the project I'mworking on is, is about, um, a
society in LA and future societywhere, um, The housing prices

(01:11:15):
have risen so much that peoplelive in cabinets with like $5 a
month for rent.
But one day, our protagonistbreaks his neck from fitting
inside the cabinet for so longand discovers that he cannot fit
inside his cabinet no longer.

(01:11:35):
So now he has to kind of figureout a way to find a way find a
way of living

Speaker 01 (01:11:43):
um

Speaker 00 (01:11:44):
i love that that's such a fun idea yeah and when
you say you broke his neck as inlike like he has a herniated
neck disc that's why he can'tfit yeah wow and herniated neck
this usually comes when you'reum having maintaining a really
bad posture for a long time andi imagined oh what would people
who are living in cabinets gothrough Yeah.

(01:12:06):
And the biggest problem wouldbe bad posture.
Cause you know, you can't be,you can't be sleeping on a nice
mattress.
So her neck, this was somethingthat I came up with, but then
it's just, the story justnaturally came.
Then, you know, if he has toneck collar, he cannot fit
inside the cabinet then whatdoes he do and kind of all that
yeah i can see a lot of comedyin that

Speaker 01 (01:12:27):
like dark that's comedy in it because you got the
thing and it like restrictsyour movement and like there's a
lot of opportunity

Speaker 00 (01:12:34):
the funny thing is i thought it was a ridiculous
idea to have a film where peoplelive inside cabinets but then
i've been researching and And inHong Kong and in Tokyo and in
Seoul, it's a reality.
Like coffin homes is a realityand literally they live inside
cabinets.
And that's like a common livingcondition.

(01:12:57):
And I hope LA doesn't hit thatphase, but we are statistically
having a huge population growthand the rent price has increased
more than ever like la is oneof the most expensive cities to
live in and already so manypeople are sharing rooms like

(01:13:18):
especially if you're you knowsharing rooms with like three to
four people you're alreadyliving in a cabinet-like
situation where you can't domuch in terms of your living
condition um So I feel like thistype of story, although as
absurd as the concept is, I feellike would resonate with a lot
of us.
And especially for me, tryingto figure out a living condition

(01:13:41):
post-grad with not the mostprofitable job, finding that
living condition has been verydesperate, very dire.
So it oddly is a very personalfilm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.

Speaker 01 (01:13:59):
Dude, that's so

Speaker 00 (01:14:00):
fun.
I see a recurring

Speaker 01 (01:14:01):
theme here, for sure, with your films.
But, you know, I hope yourtrend of ending up like your
protagonist doesn't continue.

Speaker 00 (01:14:10):
I think it's kind of inevitable.
I like...
What

Speaker 01 (01:14:13):
if this is a way to separate yourself from that?
You know, it's like anexpression that paints a
possible future, but then bydoing so, it clears the air a
little bit and you can seethings a little bit clearer.
I think that...

Speaker 00 (01:14:29):
I think it's interesting how my film catches
up to my life because in thatsense, it becomes a very, very
personal film.
And I feel like it's impossiblefor me to not live through what
my characters are going throughor feeling when I'm writing.
And although they are veryabsurd and the circumstances

(01:14:53):
they're in are not a goodcircumstance, Like all the
emotions that they're feelingare stuff that I felt or will
feel.
And in that case, that's howthose films become very personal
to me, although I've never gonethrough a divorce or lived in a
cabinet.
And I guess this is somethingthat I want to talk about how to

(01:15:17):
make personal films is, youknow, the story itself doesn't
have to be like autobiographicalto become a personal film.
And I think inherently allprojects that you write and
direct are personal to youbecause, you know, how could
they not be personal when you'reputting your sweat and blood
into them?
It's always personal in thesense that the characters, what

(01:15:39):
they're feeling are the feelingsthat you felt.
Some of the situations are thesituations that you've gone
through.
And what you try to tell withthe film is what you believe in
life.
Like those are what make thefilm personal like it doesn't
have to be step-by-stepautobiographical film to be

(01:16:01):
personal so I know a lot offilmmakers are really struggling
to find a great idea or a storybecause they're afraid that
this is not personal and if it'snot personal then you know it's
going to be hard to convinceothers or hard to convince you
know the festivals ordistribution companies to take
interest in your project but Ifeel like there's no need to be
so concerned about that becausewhatever you do is inherently

(01:16:23):
personal and you find ways tomake it so personal to you so

Speaker 01 (01:16:27):
absolutely yeah

Speaker 00 (01:16:27):
I think Spielberg said something

Speaker 01 (01:16:29):
similar where, you know, he didn't make The
Fablemans until like two yearsago, but...
He said that there are hints ofhis own emotionality in pretty
much every movie he's made, likein E.T., you know,

Speaker 00 (01:16:39):
the whole family dynamic.
Jurassic Park was personal tohim because he was such a
dinosaur nerd when he was a kid.
Schindler's List because, youknow, of his ethnicity.
Like all of his films, likeJaws because he was afraid of
sharks.
Like everything is personal toyou.
And like Bong Joon-ho, he'snever made an autobiographical
film, but all of his films, youcan tell that it's his film and

(01:16:59):
it's personal to him because yousee his thoughts and
perspective in it.
Right.
And views and all of that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that's somethingthat develops over time too.

Speaker 01 (01:17:09):
You can't really go like wake up tomorrow

Speaker 00 (01:17:11):
and go, Oh, I know exactly who I am.
And that's, that's thesincerity that needs time to
develop and really get.
Right.
And it's hard to get.
I

Speaker 01 (01:17:20):
think Janice said something in the episode before,
but.
He was like, every movie youmake, it's like a dire entry in
your life.
It's an embarrassing, direentry.
It could be.
Yeah, it could be veryembarrassing where you're like,
ah, that's not so great.
But then I think, you know,five years on, 10 years after,
you look back and you're like,oh, that's the kind of story I'm
interested in.
That's the style I was into.

(01:17:41):
And that's who I was at thatpoint.
And I think that's kind

Speaker 00 (01:17:45):
of a beautiful thing to experience.
And a filmmaker that I reallylove who does that is Charlie
Kaufman.
You know, you watch his filmsand It's all brutally, brutally
personal to him.
Even the film Synecdoche, NewYork, there's a line, you know,
I only want brutal truth.
And I think that's what's sopowerful about him because
Eternal Sunshine, you know,Being John Malkovich,

(01:18:09):
Adaptation, and Synecdoche, NewYork, those are all very, very
surrealistic, absurd, weird, andout-of-the-world films.
But you can tell that it's themost personal story to the
filmmaker because you hear thatfrom the dialogue, you hear from
how the characters behave, andyou see that from where the film

(01:18:30):
goes.
And it's so powerful how theyall interact with each other.
And yeah, I feel like that'swhat makes a really good
storyteller, permeating yourpersonal identity and stories
into areas that are unnatural toyou, uncomfortable to you,
somehow making it anembarrassing diary entry.

Speaker 01 (01:18:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 00 (01:18:54):
And I think we talk a lot about like philosophies
and like why we're making art,right?
You do speak like, you know, weonly live one life, right?
And our life is limited.
So I do want to, this is, thiscould be dark.
Viewer, listener discretion isadvised.
But what do you think happensafter death?
That was, I feel like a lot oflike kids, like, you know, have

(01:19:19):
that, Question and make themsleepless at night.
I was one of those kids Wethought about it for a long long
time until like I was 20 Likeit would literally wake me up at
night saying like I'll get soscared but after I had some kind

(01:19:40):
of a convincing of myself andMore of a research into the
subject matter.
Yeah, I've been able to sleeppeacefully Okay and i truly
believe there is nothing likethe state of nothing which is
hard to embrace but it's easy toimagine if you try to imagine

(01:20:00):
what happened before you're bornright i was going to say
exactly that yeah and if youimagine that then you know you
go i don't know like i literallyhave no idea but if you think
about the world and big banghappened like 4.6 billion years
ago The world that we know as itis has existed for 4.6 billion

(01:20:21):
years and you know nothing of itbecause you were not existent
during that time.
But now here you are and Ithink we're all bound to go back
to that state of nothingness.
But I think I take it as moreof like we had the utmost
privilege to somehow turn on atelevision that's been on for

(01:20:44):
4.6 billion years and get towatch the greatest shows that it
can offer for the duration ofyou know your lifetime and if
you think about then there'snothing that you cannot do and
there's nothing that you cannotyou know dream because to
imagine Having that televisionon after 4.6 billion years and

(01:21:06):
only watching the most boringdocumentary show ever, what a
waste.
That's such a waste.
You want to watch the greatestshows, the best movies that you
can watch, but just to watch themost boring TV shows, I feel
like that's such a waste.
If you also have the thoughtthat there's nothing after

(01:21:27):
you're dead, I feel like thatreally motivates you to do
something that means somethingto you.
and really enjoy the lifebecause i think it's really hard
to whilst you're living yourbusy day to stop for a moment
and appreciate the state ofliving yeah that you're alive

(01:21:47):
that you can whatever hardshipyou're feeling you can feel it
because you're alive and knowwhen you're dead it just doesn't
exist um And like right now,too, like I really appreciate
the moment that I'm able tosafely talk about my thoughts
with people that I like in asafe environment.

(01:22:07):
Like this is such a privilege.
And having that thought, Ithink, just extends to a lot of
small privileges that you feelas you're living.
You know, just whether you'reunemployed, whether you failed
something big, just the factthat you can go home and sleep
on your bed.
is such a big privilege becausethere's so many people outside

(01:22:28):
that are freezing or in warzones that are concerned about
dying and you're not in thoseshoes so i feel like kind of
having that convincing thatthere's nothing after death has
made me appreciate a lot of thelittlest things in life and see
life in a broader perspectiveyeah there's this quote i really

(01:22:49):
like that goes um

Speaker 01 (01:22:51):
somewhere out there there's someone who would
consider all their dreams tocome true if they were to live
your life yeah like they it ifthey were to live just one day
of your life that would thatwould that is their lifelong
dream and i think that putseverything into perspective i
mean we're we want to do filmand we're at usc and when's the

(01:23:12):
usc that's

Speaker 00 (01:23:12):
like like try to recall yourself like before usc
you'd be thinking of people whogot into USC and who were
studying at USC you don't reallythink about what they're doing
after but you're just onlythinking that they got into USC
and you just expect them to behaving the best days of their
lives but was that the case?
I feel like some days but notall of the case and And that's

(01:23:36):
kind of the case for most, likejust becoming a successful
filmmaker.
And that would be all think,but become a successful
filmmaker.
My life is just going to begreen and blue and so good, but
they all have their ownstruggles and there's never a
satisfaction until you just say,yes, I'm satisfied.
Yeah.
Just one day at a time.
Yeah.

(01:23:56):
You know, it's something thatmade me, like, because I always
be thinking about that as well.
I also made a movie about whathappens after death.
I'm going to show you afterthis podcast.
Okay.
It's like a short film.
But I realized that I think thereason why I'm so scared of...
Some day there's a potential ofnot having every memory.
I have not knowing the people Ilove It's so scary is because I

(01:24:20):
haven't really lived the lifeyet You know, I think we're all
like 20 ish right and we haven'treally done that much with our
lives And I would just thinkthat maybe one day when we're
like 70 80, you know We havelived a full life that we are
satisfied and we are okay withletting go and that's the reason
why I think people who are moreolder and more mature aren't as

(01:24:42):
you know thinking about stufflike this as we are now and I
think that made me feel a lotmore comfortable because I
realized you know I will besatisfied you know I will be
happy one day with you knowpotentially losing everything
you know I feel like youshouldn't be complacent but also
you should should embrace justthe state of what it is

(01:25:08):
sometimes like I feel like ifyou're very driven as one should
be in their young age it's sohard to tell yourself that
whatever you've built so far isworth as what it is and you're

(01:25:32):
always looking at people thathave more than you or are in
better places than you and youfeel so shit about it But
keeping yourself in thatposition only makes things
worse.
And also the late David Lynchsaid, being depressed is the
worst thing for creativity.
And I truly believe in that.

(01:25:53):
You should be an artist, butyou shouldn't be an artist who
committed suicide.
And I feel like there is adifference, big difference.
That people confuse.
People think you have to be ata certain state or you should be
doing these substances or youshould be doing something that

(01:26:14):
the cool artist did for you toget in their position.
But no, we all have differentways to get into that state.
And there's so many ways to getinto that state healthy.
And most...
most virtuosos, most, you know,great filmmakers are in that
healthy state.
That's why they've been able todo it for so long.

(01:26:34):
And the greatest example is ifyou look at jazz musicians, you
know, Miles Davis and Chet Bakerand Dizzy Gillespie, like Miles
Davis and Miles Davis is themost popular one because he had
the longest career.
And that's because, you know,he's tried to stay away from
drug as much as possible.
But then you have, you know,Bill Evans, Chet Baker, and all

(01:26:58):
these other artists who weregreat at their time but lived
until they were like 50 becausethey had all these drug
problems.
And that's not a good thing foryourself.
If you cannot live as an artistthe life that you want to live
for the longest time, thenthat's not a good thing.

(01:27:19):
And having these thoughts ofpressure and pressure Only
looking at accomplishments areagainst having that long, stable
career, stable life.
So I feel like it's reallyimportant to have a grounded
mindset and keep things healthy.
And also, if there are peoplearound you that keep forcing you

(01:27:44):
to do unhealthy stuff andputting yourself into places
that you don't want to be, It'sthe absolute right thing to cut
them off.
And don't be afraid that if youcut them off, then you lose all
your connections.
That's never the truth.
That's never the fact.
There's so many people in theworld.

(01:28:05):
People will always come to you.
And the more healthier, themore better person you become,
the equivalent people will cometo you.
So I think that's somethingthat we all are always afraid
of, like not having enoughpeople around our lives, but
there will always be enoughpeople around our lives.
And at a certain point, it justbecomes who you want in your

(01:28:28):
life and who you don't want.
And it's also important to havethe skill set to decide and
have a clear vision.
Yeah.
People to surround yourselfwith.
Yeah.
It's very important.

Speaker 01 (01:28:40):
Yeah.
One question I would ask you iswhat are, you know, three
things that you're, grateful

Speaker 00 (01:28:45):
for and what are three things that you're trying
to achieve?
I think I'm first very gratefulthat I'm at a state where I can
write and do film.
I think that's a lot ofprivilege, that I don't have to
be so concerned about, you know,just living.
The pressure, the weight ofliving doesn't suppress me to

(01:29:07):
giving up on writing and doingfilmmaking.
I think that's an immenseprivilege that I have that I'm
very grateful for.
Second thing is the people thatI have.
I think it's often easy toneglect the importance and the
value and the people that arearound you because they kind of

(01:29:28):
feel so natural to be aroundyou.
But once they leave and you seethe void, that's when you
realize, oh, Yeah, that personmeant a lot in my life.
So I'm really grateful for thepeople that I have around me.
And I hate using the termconnection with people because I
feel like that's a verybusiness and shallow term with

(01:29:52):
people.
They're friends or they'reacquaintances or yada yada, but
not connections.
So yeah, I'm really gratefulfor the people around me.
third um i think i'm gratefulthat i was able to make a film

(01:30:14):
right after graduation or likebefore graduation actually and
completed after graduation ithink if i didn't have hermit
crab um i feel like i would havestruggled much more mentally
and i feel like i would havebeen very lost but whether it
does great in the festival runor not i think it was a great

(01:30:34):
insurance and something thattells me that I'm a filmmaker
and that I have something undermy belt.
I think I'm very grateful tohave that in my filmography as
kicking my career off becauseit's really rare to have that

(01:30:56):
kind of privilege to be able tomake a film that you want to
make.
It takes a lot of time andeffort and a lot of people.
I think I'm very grateful thatI had all those resources to be
able to do something that Iwanted to do before graduation.
Three things that I'm lookingforward to.
First thing is making a filmthis year, make another film

(01:31:18):
this year.
I think that's what I'm themost excited about, just
naturally.
Second thing is had somethingin my memory.
Second thing is seeing whereeverything kind of goes.

(01:31:41):
Like currently I've, with thefilm that's in the festival run,
like I've had everythingprepared and now it's going out.
And seeing the realimplications, I think would
guide me how I should navigatemy filmmaking career.
So I'm really excited to seethat.
And third of all is kind ofenjoying more of my twenties.

(01:32:05):
Not really looking forward tolike meeting a lot of new
people.
I think I would rather enjoycherishing my friends and the
time I spend with my friendsright now.
And having more time withfamily, because I think the more

(01:32:29):
you grow up, You know, you getmarried or you find you get very
busy with career.
It's very difficult to spendtime with family.
And I have a dog and he'sgetting old.
So I wish to spend as much timeas I can within the given time.
A lot of people say that youhave to give at least 10 years

(01:32:51):
until you find a light in thisindustry.
And I think it's true.
There's so many people thatfind early success, but compared
that number to the amount ofpeople that are in the industry
and the people that are working,it's 1%.
But because of how the mediashows them and how often we are

(01:33:15):
exposed to them, it often feelslike they are the norm and they
are the standard and they arewhat it takes to start this
journey.
But I just want to say itreally isn't.
You have to see more of thepeople that are putting so much
hard work, so much, you know,enduring so much kind of mental

(01:33:39):
struggle, pain, and all those,you know, realistic turmoils to
pursue what they want to pursue.
And I think there's a lot ofcourage in that.
I think there's a lot of thingsthat we can learn from.
And I think those are thepeople that you should be
looking to.
for and that you should belearning from then you know

(01:34:03):
those early successes becausethe chances are like you're not
going to be that early successit doesn't mean that you're not
a failure it doesn't mean thatyou're a failure you know so
really stick to this work reallystick to what you're doing
whether it's you know gettingsomewhere or not just stick to

(01:34:23):
it for as long as you can untilyou know you feel so done with
it then, you know, you don'thave any regrets.
But if you give up because youjust feel like you're not good
enough right now, then of courseyou're not good enough because
you haven't took the time tobecome good enough.
So yeah, just to all thefilmmakers that are, you know,
in my shoes that are starting, Ifeel like just stay healthy in

(01:34:47):
Dior and, you know, continuemastering your craft until you
get somewhere.
And you will, I feel like.
After...
how many years I thinkeverybody gets at least one
knock at the door and you eithermake it or not but at least you
got the knock and you can leaveclean that's so beautiful it's

(01:35:10):
a marathon not a sprint yeahit's a marathon not a sprint
yeah thank you so much forcoming on the podcast thank you
thank you guys it was fun thiswas great so much wisdom I'm
sure it's so helpful to ouraudiences I've never talked this
much No, this is part of thereason why we do it.
We also get to just talk aboutthese things

Speaker 01 (01:35:31):
in a more professional manner.

Speaker 00 (01:35:33):
I think it's really great that you're having
podcasts with people that areworking really hard to do what
they want to do because thosepeople are very often
overlooked.
But those people are the peoplethat we should all be listening
to.
Because who cannot talk about,you know, who can't talk about

(01:35:55):
their struggles before theirbreakthrough?
Like, I can talk to high schoolstudents about, you know, how
you don't have to go to filmschool.
Like, how, you know, you don'thave to, like, work so hard in
high school because, you know,do whatever you want to do.
But the reality is, like, itkind of isn't like that, you
know?
Like, there's things that youearn from going to film school

(01:36:16):
and there are things that youearn from working hard.
So after you've made it, thewisdom that you share is very
different from the people thatare on their way to making it.
So I feel like it's reallyimportant to have those both
perspectives.
But when you're just searchingon YouTube or Instagram, it's
really difficult to just listento people that are on the same

(01:36:37):
shoes as you, those comfortingstories.
So I think, yeah, it's veryvaluable of what you guys do.
I think it's really valuablework.
thank you so much thank youyeah this is a void we're trying
to fill

Speaker 01 (01:36:50):
because we feel it ourselves too like right you
don't really see you know peoplewho are just up and coming and
working

Speaker 00 (01:36:56):
hard at it yeah and i'm sure there are so many
people that are oh yeahabsolutely dying to to listen to
these words to listen to theirpeers although like because
we're surrounded in this verygood environment of LA and USC,
like we're fortunate enough tobe able to talking about these

(01:37:16):
subjects with peers and hearmore of their thoughts.
But imagine you're in a city orin town or in places where like
meeting these people is not aregular, you know, you have to
go to festivals, you have to goto certain areas to be able to
engage in these conversations orYouTube or online.

(01:37:36):
That's it.
And, and, and really share whatyou're feeling.
It's really tough.
So I think, yeah, I think it'sgreat that this exists and this
is continuing work.
Yeah.
I hope more audiences get toget engaged.
Yeah.
Thank you.

Speaker 01 (01:37:53):
Thank you.
That's a wrap on this episodeof the First Upgrade Podcast.
This was great and more tocome.
Peace.
More to come.

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How’s Life after USC Film School | Justin Roh

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How’s Life after USC Film School | Justin Roh