Producing Features and Vertical Short Dramas | Adam Bloodgood

Welcome to episode 12 of The First Act Break podcast, the show where we dive into the art, business, and hustle of breaking into the film industry, and help you build a career doing what you love. 
Today, we bring on Adam Bloodgood‬ a USC film producer who transitioned into filmmaking after 12 years of professional ballet and have worked on multiple features and vertical short dramas. We talk about how to build a career in the industry, his experience at film school, and philosophies about producing and filmmaking.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 01 (00:00):
I was a professional ballet dancer for 12 years
before coming to school.
People think that PA is abottom of the barrel job, but
it's actually a hugeopportunity.
No matter how lucky you get,someone has to help you out
along the way.
When people find out that Iwork on verticals, they usually
laugh because it is kind ofsilly to be working on a
professional set that's made tobe viewed on your phone.

(00:22):
90 to 150 page scripts shot in10 days.
If we're willing to adapt, Ithink we all have a place
because the the industry in away is growing it's not actually
contracting there was work likecrazy and i was on network tv
shows like every other week i'vebeen on multi-million dollar

(00:43):
sets and i've seen how they'rerun there was 120 some odd
professional dancers dressed ascreepy clowns like full
prosthetic bald wig guys girlsbig small

Speaker 04 (00:54):
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the
First Act Break Podcast, wherewe dive into the art, business,
and hustle of breaking into thefilm industry.
Today, we are joined by ourgood friend, Adam Bloodgood.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me.
Adam, how would you describeyourself?
What do you, what is it you do?

Speaker 01 (01:12):
Well, I am an aspiring professional filmmaker
and former ballet dancer of 12years, and I would consider
myself ultimately an audiencemember at the end of the day.
I like to make films that theaudience will enjoy, whether
that be exciting them or movingthem, if it's something that's

(01:32):
more emotional or sad.
So I try to make films that Iwould want to watch, and in
turn, hopefully other peoplewould enjoy as well.
That's great.

Speaker 04 (01:42):
And you stand out from the cohort as the mature
guy, right?
You have way more lifeexperience than everyone else
around me.
You feel like, you know, likeyou just know what you're
talking about and you have lifefigured out.
And how does that affect howyou work with people in the
cohort and stuff?

Speaker 01 (02:00):
Well, first off, you know, I paid him to say those
nice things, but thank you.
Yeah, so I'm an untraditionalcollege student.
I was a professional balletdancer for 12 years before
coming to school.
And so obviously there is alittle bit of an age gap there,
but I really try to not let thatbe a hindrance in any way.
When I first got here and wewere taking classes about

(02:22):
homesickness and whatnot, it wasa little bit humorous, but I
understand, you know, I'm in adifferent chapter of life than a
lot of other people.
As far as the actual work isconcerned, I really don't find
that it makes a huge differenceonce the cameras are rolling
because the filmmaking processis a great equalizer in it.
And once we are on set we kindof transcend whatever situation

(02:45):
we're coming from whether thatbe you know where we live how
old we are what not and we allcome together for that one
specific task and so for me it'sbeen mostly a non-issue
especially when we're on set

Speaker 04 (03:00):
and you've been on the grind at USC like I see you
producing so many differentprojects constantly I remember
it was like maybe towards theend of freshman or sophomore
year when you started gettingmore into the master program
like master thesis films doingAP work and then moving on and
being producer for so manyprojects how do you feel like

(03:21):
your experience have helped youin getting these roles and jobs
and stuff

Speaker 01 (03:26):
I think that No matter how lucky you get,
someone has to help you outalong the way.
Before coming to school, I wasan associate producer on a
feature-length ballet film thatwas done during COVID because up
in Oregon where I was working,you couldn't have a gathering of
more than five people.
So instead of laying us all offin the company, we made a film

(03:47):
so we could still pay theartists and be employed during
that time.
When I got to school, Iactually wasn't on campus much
at all our first semester.
I had built a nutcracker fromscratch up in Sherman Oaks.
I had done all thechoreography, the lighting
design, the projection design,and all of that.
And when I came back, I hadsent my resume to one of the

(04:09):
546, just a master's filmprogram, master's film program
short.
And the producer on there readmy resume and he enjoyed my work
and he gave me opportunities.
And from there and then on, itwas just a matter of meeting
people and being a available andand when you say yes to
something like really showing upnot just being like oh it'd be

(04:32):
great to be a producer and thenyou know having your phone
unavailable 24 7 so the long andshort of it is i i was very
fortunate that my friend sorenanderson saw something in me
when i first got here and that'sled to a lot of great
relationships including minewith with the two of you and the
films we've done together andyeah i'm just trying to keep the
hustle going and be thankfulfor the friends i've made along

(04:54):
the way as as cliche as thatsounds It is a

Speaker 03 (04:58):
great benefit.
I'm curious though, just as aformer ballet dancer, how does
that inform your filmmakingprocess?
I'm sure there's a lot ofcommonalities between that
profession and filmmaking.
Walk us through how that hasinformed your process, whether
it be on set, whether it bewriting, post-production.

Speaker 01 (05:17):
On set, the discipline from ballet really
comes into play.
It's very important to beprofessional and respect the
hierarchy and know when to talkand when not to.
Ambali is very regimented,almost militaristic, and so that
sort of structure has beenreally beneficial working on
set.
When it comes to writing anddirecting, ballet has informed

(05:42):
that massively because a lot ofclassical ballets that you guys
have heard of like Swan Lake orThe Nutcracker those are story
ballets like there's an actualarc and specific characters
going throughout the three actsand because ballet is mostly a
non-verbal art form all of thoseactions have to be shown just

(06:07):
with body language and I thinkthat that has been a great
inspiration of my writing ofgoing through a scene even if
it's just a character in a roomby themselves that's feeling
excited or lonely like how canyou externalize that internal
want and need and coming fromballet that's the only way we

(06:28):
could work so I really thinkthat's informed the writing and
as far as other connections goballet and choreography in
general and film are bothartistic mediums that rely on
time in their presentation andso i think that that
relationship also has reallyhelped me in the film world

Speaker 03 (06:49):
and you blended the two together in your junior
thesis um walk us through thatwhat that process was like
collaborating with your dp yourproducer and how did you bring
that project to life did youhave anyone that you knew who
were ballet dancers involved orwere you sort of the the main
input of that ballet world andthen bringing your collaborators

(07:10):
in film to bring that story tolife.

Speaker 01 (07:12):
You know, the whole process was really serendipitous
and meant to be because Ipersonally had been writing a
lot of, I would call them likelifetime dramas.
Like think of Curious Case ofBenjamin Button or Forrest Gump.
Like I was always really intolike a story of someone from a
young age until they pass away.

(07:33):
That's always been somethingI've loved.
And other than that, I'm alsohugely into sci-fi.
James Cameron is a massiveinspiration of mine.
Not so much the James Cameronthat we know now but the James
Cameron of the 80s and 90s thatwas more in like the Terminator
universe stuff nothing againstAvatar I still go to those
movies it's just those are theones that I saw that really

(07:53):
inspired me but to get back toact two we were in our writing
class that is the prerequisitefor 310 and they were really
pushing me that the professorwas really pushing me to use a
ballet story because you knowwrite what you know and And I
had been doing lights for aballet company locally, and I

(08:15):
met this incredible actor,David, who had been acting in a
bunch of USC films.
I had seen him in a couple 508sand a couple other 310s, and I
thought, okay, well, I'm goingto keep writing and developing
this ballet script, and if Davidis available and interested, I
will go ahead and do that film.

(08:36):
And long story short,introduced myself just over
Instagram, nothing fancy.
I sent him the script and I waslike, hey, I'm sending this out
to some guys.
Really, I was just sending itto him to see if there were any
feels.
And he was really into it andvery supportive.
And that was incredible.
When it comes to the actualproduction, I did lots and lots

(08:58):
of research as far as where wecould actually film a dance
scene safely and effectivelybecause it opens up with a
performance and we had anaudience of zero, but I needed
to make it seem like there wasan audience of 3,000 people and
shout out to Tammy, myincredible DP.
It was the first project thatshe had really DP'd from start
to finish and she put in endlesshours with me, going to all

(09:22):
these different locations andbringing the camera, testing
things out and whatnot.
And we also ended up workingwith Harlow, who's a friend of
the show, and he had actuallyDP'd a ballet feature recently.
So I was very lucky.
I couldn't have done it withoutmy team or without David.
So, you know, I would havenever foreseen doing a ballet

(09:42):
film, but all those things kindof came together and it feels
meant to be.

Speaker 03 (09:46):
That's so great.
It's rare when a film processgoes that smooth and it's such
a, like you said, serendipitousmoment.

Speaker 04 (09:53):
And I love how the title is similar to our title.
Yeah.
Tell me a little bit about theproducing side of things.
You are a very good producer,in my opinion.
Thank you.
There are a lot of things thatmake up a great producer.
And one of them is being ableto network, being able to know

(10:14):
everybody, being able to findcrew find locations and being
able to communicate and I feellike you know so many people you
know so many professorsespecially and I want to hear
what's your process or advice onlike making your own network of
connections

Speaker 01 (10:31):
I try to find value in every person that I meet and
not in a selfish way but I tryto find what are they good at
that intersects with what theylove and I always I am thinking
about how I can connect people,even if I'm not going to work
with them.
Because I think at a schoollike USC, it's really easy to be

(10:54):
kind of overwhelmed by impostersyndrome and feeling like, oh,
I'm not worthy enough tointroduce these people or tell
them that I'm even a producer.
I feel that as much as anyoneelse does.
But I really have always beenthe kind of person that that
loves to connect friends likeI'm not actually a hugely social

(11:16):
person but when I do have likeone friend group from say when I
was growing up from ballet andI had a friend group that I play
like metal music with I wouldactually love the chances to
connect those worlds because Ifind happiness in bringing
people together and so I thinkthat ultimately that is just who
I am as a person and it hastranslated well into producing

(11:37):
because producing is seeingpeople and having the humility
to go oh I think that thisperson is a fantastic DP or an
incredible sound mixer orwhatever it is production
designer and you put togetherthese films in your head of like
wouldn't it be so cool if allof them were together and we had
this like super film whichessentially any film that gets

(11:59):
finished in my opinion is asuper film but if it can be with
great people that have goodpersonalities it's even more
it's even more fulfilling ifthat answers your question
absolutely do

Speaker 04 (12:10):
you

Speaker 01 (12:11):
have any

Speaker 04 (12:11):
a

Speaker 01 (12:12):
spreadsheet

Speaker 04 (12:12):
of everyone you know

Speaker 01 (12:14):
you know I don't really I do have notes on people
that I've really had a greattime with because I don't want
to forget because life is busyand I've had a couple people
I've worked with over the summerwhen we're not in school where
it's been amazing and then Icome back to school and it's
like we fall not out of touchbut we don't see each other 6-7

(12:35):
days a week on the set becausethey're off still working and
we're here doing 310 yay orwhatever it is And then I've
only made notes if someone hasdone something that I think
hurts another person and this isvery very rare but if i see
someone truly treat someone witha lack of humanity i'll take

(12:56):
note of that and usually i don'tneed to write that down i'll
just remember but though thosethose bad apples if you will are
are really the exceptionthey're not the rule most people
have most people have goodqualities you just have to put
them in the right space

Speaker 03 (13:11):
right i think another great quality you have
as a producer is patience andjust being calm on set As a lot
of our viewers know and we allknow on set you know a lot of
problems can arise and that canbe a source of panic so how do
you manage to be aware of wherethings can go potentially wrong
and yet still remain calmbecause when the leaders of a

(13:35):
set start to panic, then therest of the group, including
crew or cast, can feel a littlebit unease or feel like the
production isn't going where itneeds to be.
So how do you stay still?
How do you stay calm?
How do you push forward knowingthat something is not exactly
what you planned out to be?

Speaker 01 (13:54):
Pre-production.
People always ask mepre-production.
production or post it's likealways pre for me if you have
solid work done inpre-production then you don't
have that much to worry about onset and pre-production is also
who you hire because if you goonto a set and you've planned

(14:15):
everything but then you've gotsome wild card you know dp or
something that's like oh we canshoot on the train tracks for
just a minute like and then theni i would probably go crazy but
i go into shoots at least youknow even when when we work
together on teenhood it's likeeveryone that was on that set i
either knew and i knew how theyworked under pressure or they

(14:37):
knew one of you and i trust youguys because we'd worked
together before and so to mejust having minimal surprises on
the day usually comes down tohaving really done your homework
really knowing the locationreally knowing the limits of the
budget of the day and and thereality of what we're trying to
shoot so the way i stay calm onset is by getting all the hard

(15:00):
work done beforehand and then onset it's just making sure that
we make our day and thateveryone is fed and safe as
simple as that sounds it can bea lot sometimes

Speaker 04 (15:10):
how do you have a vibe to you where people know to
not mess with you but alsothey're not scared of you you
know i

Speaker 01 (15:18):
don't know you're gonna have to tell me that one
is an outsider i've always hadthat vibe even when i was like
14 years old i would walk downthe street in downtown seattle
and people would not mess withme but then my other buddy who
i'd always catch on the bus likeeveryone was always like trying
to like get money from him anddo all this stuff so i don't
know i don't know what it ismaybe it's just uh it's just an

(15:39):
energy i put out i don't i don'ttry to be intimidating but I
don't know, maybe it's the voiceor something.

Speaker 03 (15:47):
No, but it's a good fit for a producer.
I mean, I think it's such likea blend of like, I think this is
Guillermo del Toro who said it,like a director and producer
who you have to be like as softas water and be able to really
communicate with people.
But at the same time, when, youknow, things come up or when
problems arise, you also have tobe like hard as a rock to just

(16:07):
push through and really moveforward.
And how do you, I guess, strikethat balance on set?
Because a lot of times, youknow, a very vibrant moment of
like, oh, we got this shot, likeexactly, like this is exactly
what we wanted.
A lot of times I think on setthat can be quickly followed by

(16:30):
a problem and that can quicklyupset the vibe.
So how do you become like avibe setter almost where when,
everyone is having a good time,you can manage to still keep the
production going without peoplesort of simply having a good
time and not making the filmhappen and at the same time when
you know things aren't goingwell how do you lighten up the
mood so that people can know tokeep going and make the film

(16:52):
happen

Speaker 01 (16:53):
the discipline we talked about earlier coming from
ballet is how you keep thingsgoing I think the real skill
that I've learned to develop ishow to mess around but still get
things done on time for somereason on a film set I'm sure
you guys you guys are alreadylaughing because you know how
this is it's like people havethis oh it's a great vibe and
nothing gets done or everyone'sangry and we're on time.

(17:13):
And to me, that's what wasgreat about ballet, especially
being a guy in ballet.
There's a lot fewer of us andit's usually much more
international.
And one of my first jobs I had,I was the only guy who was born
in the States, but the companywas in San Diego.
We had guys from all over theworld.
And so you kind of learn to,you got to have a good time.

(17:34):
Otherwise we're all just goingto be, you know, isolated and
lonely.
So ballet was always like, haha ha.
But then when the time hit andnine o'clock or whatever time
rolled around, we would getright into action.
And then when it was over, itwas a good time and relaxing,
almost, you know, once again,almost like the military, a
little bit of a top gun vibe, ifyou will.
So I think that that's whathelps me strike that balance.

(17:55):
And when things go bad on set,I haven't had anything horrific
happen, but usually it's just,it's basic needs, making sure
that people feel heard, youknow, very politely making sure
that people are getting enoughfood and enough water and you
know Steven Albrezzi one timesaid he came into class and he

(18:18):
goes what's what does a producerdo and people gave all these
like deep philosophical answersand he was like okay a producer
is an adult babysitter and sosometimes it is that it's just
taking care of people's basicneeds and I kind of want to
answer something that you wereasking earlier of like how do I
stay approachable butintimidating and i think it

(18:39):
comes down to this is everyonewho is being good to each other
i really will defend and i won'tlet someone I won't let someone
be treated poorly in front ofme.
I really don't stand for that.
And so I think the intimidationcomes from the fact that you
can't mess with my people, ifyou will.
And I know that sounds tribal,but in this sense, it's like

(19:01):
everyone who's on the set.
So if someone starts being meanto another person on the set,
I'll be the first person, evenif I'm not in a position to do
so, I'd be the first person tobe like, hey, what's going on?
Is this really necessary?

Unknown (19:14):
Right.

Speaker 01 (19:14):
That's

Speaker 04 (19:15):
great.
Adam, so like, outside of justproducing, you work a lot of
jobs right now, career wise, andyou have kind of like a career,
but also school at the sametime, right?
Can you talk about like all thejobs you're doing right now?
Because I think you said youhad like one or two or three
jobs, maybe at the same time.

(19:35):
Can you talk a little bit aboutthose?

Speaker 01 (19:38):
Yeah, so I've had a job as tech support at the
cinema school.
which is the least sexysounding one of all of them, but
it has been great becauseeveryone's stuff breaks down.
And so I've actually gotten toknow a lot of the people that
you always see me waving to inthe hallway and whatnot are
people who are either TAs orprofessors that I've helped get

(20:01):
out of a bind before.
And so I really, I took thatjob just because I needed it
when I first got here, but now Ikeep some time there because
it's a great way to kind of likeget to meet a lot of people
under under a great lightbecause you're helping them get
past their problems.
I also work as a sound essayfor a music spotting class,

(20:22):
which I don't know if you guyshave talked much about music
spotting before on this podcast,but it's an incredibly
interesting process and I'mreally enjoying that class.
In the real world, the musicmixer who actually mixes it into
the final film is given thedailies and the first set of
cuts from the editor and theyput temporary music and they go

(20:45):
back and forth with the directorand the actual composer until
you find the final cue that endsup in the film.
And that whole process has beenreally interesting.
We had recently, I know I'mgetting on a sidetrack a little
bit, but we had the mixer forBorn Identity come on yesterday.
And you think that, oh,temporary music, like throw some

(21:06):
action music on there.
But his Pro Tools session hadlike 12 to 15 different tracks
of things going through and itwas very cool and plus a great
thing about that class you getto see like behind the scenes
uncut like pro tool sessionsfrom movies before they're done
we were looking at a completeunknown the other day and they
still had green screen in thebackground and stuff so

Speaker 04 (21:28):
wow that's sick

Speaker 01 (21:30):
and did you say you

Speaker 04 (21:33):
You were working in ballet as well right now?

Speaker 01 (21:35):
Yeah, so I work for a studio up in Sherman Oaks
where my wife grew up actually.
I've been working with them offand on for almost a decade at
this point.
I built their Nutcracker fromscratch, but I choreographed for
their older students and I alsocoached their students.
But in that light, I wasrecently asked to choreograph

(21:57):
for an animated film and so Iused a couple of my friends and
colleagues from that studio tobe my dancers for that process
and that has been a blastbecause i've been seeing my
choreography go from you know athought to it physically on the
dancers which is alreadyexciting enough that's where
most choreographers get gettheir sense of fulfillment but

(22:20):
then i will go film it and theni'll see it in like an animatic
and there's something reallypowerful about seeing your
physical art be turned intoanimation

Speaker 04 (22:31):
that's that's really cool can you talk more about
what feature film that is orlike what you said animated film

Speaker 01 (22:36):
animated film it's an animated short it's actually
a collection of youngerundergrads here at USC and this
a wonderful young woman, Nicole.
She had seen Act 2 at 310, andshe reached out to me, and we
really hit it off, and she'sbecome a great collaborator, and
I hope to work with her more inthe future.

(22:58):
But yeah, it's been incredible,because I don't know how much
you guys have seen behind thescenes of old Disney movies, but
rotoscoping actually comes fromthe way they used to animate.
They would film somebodydoing...
you know, some sort of swordfight for let's say Peter Pan.
And then the animators would gothrough and actually go frame

(23:21):
by frame and sketch out like thelive action photo and then turn
it into the animation.
And that's what they're doingfor this film.
That's sick.

Speaker 04 (23:31):
That's

Speaker 01 (23:32):
so sick.

Speaker 04 (23:32):
You have so much stuff going on.
Like how do you balanceeverything in a day?
You know, like how do you notsacrifice one thing for another
thing?
Or is that something you dohave to do to, you know, you
have like what, three jobs, youhave a wife, you have your film
career, all these classes,right?
Like how do you plan your day?
How do you organize yourcalendar?

Speaker 01 (23:53):
Well, I really prioritize sleep and that's
really difficult for me becauseI am a little bit of a
workaholic and I would love tojust stay up till like four or
five in the morning every nightbut if I eat well go to the gym
drink enough water and sleep asinconvenient air quotes as that
is it really helps keep mebalanced and I've been just

(24:14):
trying to learn throughoutcollege where where my focus
really needs to be because thereare some classes where I could
stay up till 3 a.m doing xassignment but I realized that I
could still get the same gradeif I just prioritized what what
was what Completely necessary.
I still really believe ingetting good grades.

(24:35):
Even if you don't like want togo to grad school I still really
believe in working hard, but Ijust try to compartmentalize my
day as much as possible.
I'd rather spend 20 minutes onmy homework for a class and be
hyper focused Then spend like anhour doing Kind of a little bit
of this a little bit of that.
I

Speaker 03 (24:56):
feel like a lot of times in film or even in a lot
of other areas.
Multitasking is something thatis hard to avoid.
I'm definitely someone whowants and does better work when
I focus on one thing at a time,but as you know, producing, when
you're focusing on getting morecrafty or getting the lunch,

(25:18):
something on set could happen,or when you're on set, sometimes
you have to do A lot of otherthings at the same time.
So in your life or either onset or off set, how do you
manage to complete differentthings when they come up at the
same time without you expectingthem to come at the same time?

Speaker 01 (25:38):
Yeah, I've tried to get better about asking for help
because I always make this jokethat producing is just seeing
the film get done.
it's not like putting on a cuteoutfit and being condescending,
which I don't know if sometimesthat's really tempting to do,
to be like, oh, well, I'm aproducer.
It's so funny because if yousay you're a producer to someone

(25:59):
on the street, they don't knowwhat that is.
It means nothing.
It's only prestigious in ourlittle tiny world.
So that has helped me a lotbecause just trusting that
people will do things correctlyand trying to have a big enough
team, that's honestly how Ithink how i've managed to
prioritize and stay focusedbecause sometimes if something

(26:21):
comes up whatever you wereworking on hopefully was set up
enough that it can kind of seeitself through if you're going
to derail for for a moment

Speaker 03 (26:31):
if that answers your question oh yeah absolutely
that's

Speaker 01 (26:33):
wonderful response

Speaker 04 (26:35):
that's really cool i mean how do you see yourself
like progress through thisproducing career like how do you
see yourself um onto the nextproject

Speaker 01 (26:45):
well i fell into producing I really am a writer
before anything else.
I really fell in love withwriting in high school.
I ended up becoming an Englishhonors graduate at the end of
high school.
And telling stories, as clicheas that phrase is, and it almost

(27:07):
hurts me to say it becausethat's what we always say, but
telling stories and creatingstories has always been what I'm
about.
And I got into producing...
primarily because I was good atorganizing things.
And people were like, oh, hesays he's gonna make a
spreadsheet and he makes aspreadsheet.
I know it sounds simple, butsometimes people are a little
complicated.

(27:27):
And my goal as a producer is tobe someone That has more of a
creative input because I alwayslove when I see, you know,
executive produced by, say,James Cameron or Quentin
Tarantino, you know that it'smore creative and you know that
it's going to be good.

(27:48):
And in a way, it helps prop upthat person.
So my dream as a producer is tostill...
primarily be a writer anddirector, but the, the projects
that I do produce, I want it tobe people that, you know, I
really believe in and want toprop up.
Just don't get too big of ahead about that.

Speaker 04 (28:08):
I do want to talk about your organizational
things.
Like you are an organizedperson and how, what are some
systems you made to organizeyour life to make it easier to
like, you know, keep track ofeverything, you know, for
example?

Unknown (28:22):
Um,

Speaker 01 (28:22):
I just try to keep things as simple as possible.
I'm a real minimalist and I'mactually a huge fan of Johnny
Ive, who was the head developerof design at Apple from the
early 90s until 2015 or so.
Don't quote me on that a yearexactly.
And just trying to figure outlike what's the least amount of

(28:47):
busy work that I can do.
Because I don't know if I'vetold you guys this before, but I
was homeschooled until highschool.
And that was for a multitude ofreasons, but primarily because
my Dad's band was touring in the80s and my older brother was
born in 1980 and they wanted tobring him on the road and they
couldn't have him in publicschool if they were going to be

(29:08):
on the road.
So he was homeschooled.
And long story short, Itechnically did not need to be
homeschooled.
But one of the main reasonsthat my mom made that choice for
us was because homeschoolingwas about cutting the fat.
It was like, okay, what do youactually need to learn to get to
the next phase of development?
I don't need to have you sithere and do 500 multiplication

(29:30):
tables because that's what ittakes to get an average of 30
kids to understand it I need youto do it for as long or as
short as you need to do saidtask and so I think that that
philosophy that my mom instilledin me is ultimately is how I've
gotten to this place so I justtry to break things down and
keep it as simple as possibleand like I saw Google Calendar

(29:54):
is my best friend because it'seasy to get overwhelmed but when
you look at your day and you'relike okay well all i have is
three classes today you knowmaybe a shift at work and then
and then a couple of things thati need to get done it's like
it's not actually that bad whenyou break it down like hour to
hour because we all have thesame length of day it's just

(30:15):
some people let it beoverwhelming and other people
just see it through one thing ata time

Speaker 03 (30:20):
yeah and like you said you know we all we have our
days um everyone has the same24 hours But then the 24 hours,
one day turns into a week, andthen a week turns into a month,
and then a year, and then adecade could flash by.
And so my next question is,where do you see yourself in,
say, five to 10 years after yougraduate from USC, pursuing a

(30:43):
film career?
What would be like a dream cometrue moment for you within the
next 10 years?

Speaker 01 (30:51):
A dream come true would be to have...
artistic fulfillment or atleast feel like i had artistic
freedom because i don't know ifif artistic fulfillment true
artistic fulfillment not to gettoo deep if that's like truly
something that anyone everachieves but the freedom to do

(31:12):
something that brings me joy andto not be like worried about
where my next meal is comingfrom.
So it doesn't necessarily meanhaving like a 20 bedroom
mansion, but I don't want to be,you know, working minimum wage
in five to 10 years after havinga degree at USC, you know,
knock on wood.
But that being said, I wouldreally love to write a lot more

(31:35):
and I would love to get intodirecting, but something that is
a big goal of mine in the grandscheme, is I want to walk into
doors when they're open andreally try to learn when an
opportunity is presentingitself.
Because I feel like somethingthat I did when I was younger,
and I see a lot of people doingit now, is when you're younger,

(31:56):
you're more idealistic.
And when you're moreidealistic, you're like, I'm
going to be, and then you caninsert someone crazy, like I'm
gonna be Barack Obama.
And it's like, you're not goingto be Barack Obama because
you're you.
And it doesn't mean you're notgoing to also be the president
or do something incredible.
You just have to find your pathbecause Barack Obama would have

(32:18):
gone insane if he was like, I'mgoing to be John F.
Kennedy, like he was nevergoing to be.
So that is my goal is to findartistic freedom, but also be
flexible on that path and gowhere the opportunities are.
Are you optimistic about thefuture?
I know that it's not lookedhighly upon to be optimistic

(32:42):
about anything right now, but Iam optimistic.
Because if you look at thehistory of film that we have in
our classes a lot, peoplethought Hollywood was going to
die so many times.
And clearly, we've never hadmore ways to watch stuff.
We're on our phones and laptopsand TVs and blah, blah, blah.
And IMAX is like...
imax stock has gone up recentlyi never thought imax that i

(33:06):
used to watch sciencedocumentaries on would be like a
mainstream thing so i thinkthat the film world is going to
be around it just depends on howwilling we are to adapt and
that's speaking of just what iwas just saying about being
open-minded like when i firstmet the two of you in 2021 I
think it was 22 when we met, youwould have been like, where are

(33:27):
you going to be in five years?
And I'd be like, LA, like noquestions asked.
But now with all of the issuesof the strikes and things moving
away, it's like, I'm only goingto leave the film industry if I
decide like, oh, I have to livein Los Angeles or Seattle or
San Francisco.
But my plan is to go where thework is because this has been

(33:48):
the fulfilling work for me.
So I think that we're goingthrough a rough time and maybe
it will never go back to thequote unquote glory days, but it
will land somewhere.
Even the music industry, whicheveryone thought was going to be
completely dead and gone, hasfound great success in the
concert world.
Like artists are going on allsorts of tours and people are

(34:10):
going to concerts again, whereafter 9-11, when I was a kid,
people thought that concertswere dead.
So I think it's just, if we'rewilling to adapt, I think we all
have a place because theindustry in a way is growing.
It's not actually contractingexcept for in the most
prestigious areas.

Speaker 03 (34:28):
On the note of like being adaptive and just
observing change and also sortof going along with it and
adapting yourself to it.
I know you've worked on somevertical short productions.
I know those are on the rise.
To the listeners who don'tknow, I mean, this is kind of a
huge deal.
I mean, they're on NPR News.
They're on legitimate newspublications.

(34:49):
And the CEO of these companieshave talked about how our
viewing habits have sort ofguided us Their founding
principle is that, you know,maybe you can really do tell a
pretty interesting and engagingstory in one or two minutes, but
in a vertical format.
And that will be in an episodeof a traditional TV show.
So just talk to us a little bitabout your experience on those

(35:12):
sets.
I mean, is it any differentthan, you know, traditional
short film where the aspectratio is horizontal?
Are there any specificchallenges that come with that?
And where do you see thatformat growing?
in the future.

Speaker 01 (35:27):
When people find out that I work on verticals, they
usually laugh because it is kindof silly to be working on a
professional set that's made tobe viewed on your phone.
But I have learned a great dealworking on those sets.
As far as the creativechallenge, as far as the
monetary challenge, they usuallyare about 90 to 150 page

(35:49):
scripts shot in 10 days.
Wow.
Wow.
I've only seen an actor whocouldn't get their lines like

(36:14):
once or twice of the hundred sodays that I've spent on the
vertical sets.
So I would look at it as thenew soap opera where I don't
know if people will ever betaking it to the golden globes,
but it is definitely a viableplace to work.
And to just, just to describethe format more like they are
not shot on iPhone.

(36:34):
They're shot on real likecinema cameras, like cinema
cameras placed on their side andthey have all the monitors like
9 by 16 and everything and it'sbecome its own little side
industry it's almost like musicvideos on steroids like everyone
who shows up to those knowswhat to expect and they know how
it goes and it's very you knowit's very fast paced I know we

(36:58):
like to say that abouteverything but it's legitimately
fast paced where you look andyou're like you're looking at
the call sheets like we're doingscene 99 110 5 15 23 27 you're
like okay cool that's

Speaker 03 (37:10):
It's good to hear in such a different environment.

Speaker 04 (37:13):
To our viewers who are more interested in getting
into this, how does someone getinto vertical shorts?
If they wanted to direct avertical short like the ones
you're working on, or how dothey get on these sets?

Speaker 01 (37:24):
Be nice to people is the short answer.
My story is Vincent Walker,who's now a professor who
teaches new media directing.
He was a senior when I was afreshman.
We had met actually inanthropology class, and we had
really hit it off about threequarters of the way through the
fall we discovered that we wereboth in the film school we had

(37:46):
just become friends justorganically which is great
because if you can do that thenyou're set but he called me in
January February of 23 and waslike hey man I can't miss school
today can you please fill infor me on on this set I was
working on as a PA.
I was like, okay, cool.
And so I showed up sightunseen.

(38:07):
I wasn't even on the callsheet.
Like one person knew I wassupposed to be there and I got
on and I worked as hard as Icould and I hit it off with
that.
line producer.
Long story short, that summercomes along, she hired me as her
key PA.
So I like hired the other PAsand looked over them.
And then the summer after that,I ended up taking her old job

(38:31):
as she moved up to creativeproducer.
And so I would say get on toset find out who's working that
you know, ask if you can get onthe set as a PA and then just do
a great job as a PA becausepeople think that PA is a bottom
of the barrel job, but it'sactually a huge opportunity
because if you are a PA and youcan really organize the day and

(38:56):
you can make everyone feelrespected and comfortable and
you can, you know, you can evenpick up the trash with dignity
it's amazing how much you areshowing that you'd be a great
line producer and that is it's ahuge jump but it is the next
step so

Speaker 03 (39:14):
yeah just kind of like no job is too small
attitude I remember listening toanother podcast where the
producer of Anora and Red RocketAlex Coco he actually mentioned
yeah he had to like negotiatethe rates for like this truck
that they were gonna use andwhile at the same time, there
was something I think going onon set.

(39:35):
So he was on a call tonegotiate that while he was, I
think just, it could have justbeen taking out trash and he was
like the main producer.
So yeah, I think just, yeah,like you said, you know, even if
you're a PA, there's a set canrun without a PA doing their job
properly.
And so I think that's just soimportant.
And talk us a little bit, talka little bit about, how you've

(40:00):
sort of explored different roleson set.
We've talked a lot aboutproducing, but you actually shot
something at my house.
That's true.
As a DP.
And I know you also held someproducing responsibilities on
that as well.
So how do you, I guess, usedifferent parts of your brain

(40:21):
when you're a DP versus whenyou're a producer or...
when you're a PA versus whenyou're literally the director?
Are there any commonalitiesbetween these roles?
How do you switch between them?

Speaker 01 (40:33):
Well, I think it helps that I'm a big tech nerd.
And it's not something thatcomes up.
I'm not ashamed of it, but itdoesn't come up at school very
often.
So I've always been fascinatedin how camera works, how sound
recording works, just thetechnology side of it.
Because I think that there's acliche that people fall into
where they use tech as a way tokind of hide from storytelling.

(40:57):
And I'm sure you guys have seenit.
It's like the way you say thatyou're like, like a cool guy
you're like yeah yeah you knowwe shot that like 8k log with
like a sky panel and it's likeokay you can either approach it
like that or you can approach itin a way that that elevates the
story It's, you know, like Ilook at back growing up, it's

(41:17):
like my dad would always belike, there are certain movies
like you have to see in thetheater.
He would say he's like, we'relike, we're going to go see, you
know, Mission Impossible, Lordof the Rings, Harry Potter.
Like those are like theatermovies.
And he would be like, you know,you need the big screen.
You need the surround sound.
You need the like rumblingfloor from, you know, the LFE
subwoofer.

(41:38):
Sorry, I've started talking inour own our own lingo.
So.
That has always been somethingI've been into, but I haven't
always been drawn to doing thetechnical things on set full
time.
So to me, I just observe aseven as a PA or a producer, like
your observational skills donot change depending on what,

(41:58):
you know, you are on the callsheet that day.
You watch how people work andwhen the collaboration really
clicks and when it doesn't.
And when I go on and I'm doingsomething like DPing that I
haven't done for someone else asoften.
I mean, like all of us, I'vemade a million of my own films
where you're like your own DP.
But when you're working forsomeone like on that film where

(42:19):
I was Tammy's DP, um, I just go,I pull from a library of what
I've seen work on other sets andthen try to bring to it what I
can with my own technicalexperience.

Speaker 03 (42:32):
And adding on to that, ballet is a performance
art.
Have you ever tried acting infront of the camera?
If yes, what has thatexperience been like?
And if not, would you bewilling to try at some point in
the future?

Speaker 01 (42:47):
Yeah, I actually have some acting background.
I had a YouTube show for alittle while, about a decade
ago.
Gosh, it was a good time.
And I lived out here in LAbetween ballet gigs for a while.
And I was doing like littleone-liner and background jobs.
And that was during thestreaming boom.
And that was amazing becausethere was work like crazy.

(43:09):
And I was on network TV showslike every other week.
And it was nothing big.
It was usually like either asingle liner or like walking
across the background, but ithas played a tremendous part in
my understanding of how a filmset should work because I've
been on multimillion dollar setsand I've seen how they're run

(43:32):
and I've seen how they can beamazing and where it can also
feel like a student film whereeveryone's getting paid a lot of
money.
And so the short answer is yes.
And I actually want to get backinto acting because now that
I've been learning more aboutdirecting, I would say
classically, in depth at school,I feel like I really want to

(43:53):
put myself in that position toreally understand what they're
going through and potentially bein a couple things at some
point.
It's not my main priority, butit's one of those doors that I
don't want to close for noreason.

Speaker 04 (44:05):
And you said you've been on a lot of sets before,
like on different projects, it'sdifferent roles, right?
Yeah.
A set is 12 hours a day.
It's really long.
You get like one meal out ofthat.
And how do you stay sane?
You know, how do you stay like,how do you stay fun?
throughout those 12 hoursknowing that maybe you have to

(44:27):
go back to set again another 12hours for another 12 hours right
because this is a very hard jobi mean even being on a 480 set
for 12 hours takes a lot of lifeout of you i feel like so how
do you navigate that and keepyourself feeling you know happy
and healthy i

Speaker 01 (44:44):
really try to keep it light when i'm it's
appropriate for it to be light.
Like when we're on schedule andsay you're off to the side and
the sound guy doesn't need tomic someone up, like that's the
time where I go over and I tryto find out like where they're
from, like what they're into.
I'm very fortunate that Ihaven't traveled internationally

(45:05):
a ton, but I have traveled adecent amount and I can find a
way to relate to someone andkind of like have a little
banter with them.
Like that, that's what keeps mesane.
You know, like for instance, on480 I really love the sound
crew on my deal.
So I've been like, I've beengoing around like calling them
lazy all the time.
And like, clearly it's veryfacetious.

(45:27):
Like they know that I mean thatlike 0%.
I'm like actually saying, Iappreciate you being here.
You guys are like my friends.
But so finding those ways toconnect with people, I think is
really important because I thinkfilm sets are really stressful
and they are really draining.
And so people tend to put upwalls, which are really just
because their social battery iscompletely run out.

(45:47):
but it can come across as kindof arrogant or like you're too
good for someone so when i amtired i do try to reach out as
much as i want to kind of go inmy own little bubble i think
also like if there is a day offi like really try to treat my
body well i'm not like a hugedrinker or anything but i would

(46:07):
never i would never like stay uplate or like have a bunch of
drinks that night or whatever ifi have if i have a day off like
i really try to hydrate andsleep and and socialize with
people in my family outs outsideof that like spend the day with
my wife call my mom up inseattle like remember that i'm a
human being because you guysknow sometimes in the heat of

(46:29):
production you just kind of feellike a machine and we're not
supposed to feel that way so youhave to figure out how to kind
of counteract that right

Speaker 03 (46:38):
And how do you find the balance between like,
because film, like you said,like we all just kind of talked
about for like the past hour,like it can be kind of draining.
Like it takes 12 hours just toshoot and that's just the
production.
There's pre-production and thatusually also requires a lot of
long-term dedication and focus.
What are some ways you stay ahuman being?

(46:59):
Like you said, you know, notjust let this thing sort of
guide everything that you dobecause when that happens, it
can feel...
very overwhelming you can youknow feel like your other
relationships in life aren'tbeing taken care of or you may
be just not be taking care ofyourself how do you manage both
the intensity of filmmaking andyour other areas of your life

Speaker 01 (47:24):
honestly it's learning how to say no to things
because I've noticed this arcwith a lot of people.
And now that I am a TA, a lotof the underclassmen will ask to
meet with me for office hours.
And so often they're like, I'mso burnt out.
What do I do?
And the answer is almost alwayslike you said yes to too many

(47:45):
things.
Like you can't, especiallywhile you're in school here, you
can't do every single weekendon set.
you you can do like a projectand then take some time off and
maybe some people are superhumanbut for me like i need that
time off so i think it's justsaying no to things and i know
it might not sound like i dothat because i because you guys
are like constant collaboratorsof mine but there are people i

(48:07):
know less who who i have nothingagainst who might be like hey
i've got this project and it'slike say it's between 480 and
the next jiang film like i'm notgonna do it because i know that
by the time i get to yourshypothetical your film i'm gonna
be dead and exhausted and Ifyou're dead and exhausted,
that's also when you'repotentially risking your
reputation.

(48:27):
Because a lot of times peopleruin their image in someone
else's eyes when they're justtired.
And there are a lot of timesthat if you're humble enough,
you can kind of repair that.
But you're not going to snap ifyou are well-rested and you
feel happy and loved andbalanced.
You're going to snap at someonewhen you're exhausted on day 15

(48:50):
and all that sort of thing.

Unknown (48:51):
Right.

Speaker 03 (48:52):
that kind of happened to me the first day of
production of teenhood i fellliterally sick like two days ago
and i there was nothing i coulddo i mean i was coughing
non-stop and then i realizedyeah i think i could have taken
better care of myself because iwas also just um wrapping
something else up and yeah thattook a lot of mental energy it

(49:13):
took a lot of physical energyand i think at the end of it my
body just shut down and justupon reflection i think i would
have said more no's than I saidyes's and I think that's such
great advice to anyone who wantsto pursue filmmaking seriously
and for long term and I thinkthat's something you learn kind
of just by doing it eventuallyyou realize like you can't
commit to every thing and Idefinitely was like a set hopper

(49:37):
freshman and sophomore year.
A lot of us were.
Yeah, I just wanted to learneverything.
And the only way to do that isby going on set.
But it can be very draining themore you do it.
So yeah, at some point you dohave to just say no to things
and just dedicate your time tothe things that are on the very

(49:57):
top of your list.

Speaker 04 (50:00):
No, I agree.
It's like right now, especiallyI heard from our TA from last
semester in 310, Amanda, whotold me that after 310 semester
is the semester where mostpeople get burned out because
they think they can doeverything, which I thought I
could do everything.
So I started piling up so muchdifferent stuff.

(50:22):
things from different places.
And I, a lot of times I have tofeel like I have to sacrifice,
you know, not going a hundredpercent on this thing to be able
to go like 80% on this otherthing.
And it is really toughbalancing everything, you know?
Um, so saying no to things isprobably one of the best things
you can do.
I, I totally agree.
And on the topic of that, like,um, how do you pick projects?

(50:46):
You know, how, what makes youwant to do a project versus
another project?
That's like, let's sayproducer.

Speaker 01 (50:52):
Yeah.
This is a hard one because toget to this place that you're
talking about, it is a privilegethat comes kind of after
shopping yourself around andgoing on a lot of sets.
Yes.
And you have to think of it,you know, people have said this
before, you have to think of itlike as a marriage because when
someone's like, oh, I want toproduce this cool project, you
have to go like, can I have thisperson calling me at like 11.30

(51:16):
p.m.
on a Sunday night?
Can I be on set with thisperson like, and then deal with
them in post and how do I thinkthis person handles conflict.
And so honestly, like story isking.
which is why I'm veryprivileged to have been in
producing positions where I cangive notes if I think something
is off.
But really, it's like, it's whoyou want to spend your time

(51:40):
with.
I was on a film last yearcalled Into Dust right before
Teenhood, directed by LunaBarotel.
And every time I worked withher and my co-producer, Jeffrey,
it was just like a breath offresh air.
It was like getting away fromschool, getting away from work.
And that made that movie worthproducing.

(52:03):
And I chose to work with herbecause we had been together on
Xiao's set.
She was a producer on his filmthat previous summer.
And there was just somethingabout our friendship that it had
potential.
And so I think ultimately theway I choose who I work with is
or what.
productions I work on at thisstage in my career, sorry, at

(52:25):
this stage in my career is whothe people are because you're
going to be spending a lot oftime together for better, for
worse.

Speaker 04 (52:32):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, outside ofteenhood, what are some of the,
what are some of your favoritesets you've worked on and what
are some of the coolest setsyou've worked on?

Speaker 01 (52:42):
Uh, favorite sets I've worked on.
I loved into dust last year.
And then I also really loved ABetter Place, which was Xiao's
film.
It sounds horrible.
Well, we met on that one.
That's right.
I

Speaker 03 (52:56):
was a grip for a day or two, I think.

Speaker 01 (52:59):
It was crazy.
We were out in the high desert.
It was like 120 degrees,shooting at the height of a UV
every day, like 1 p.m.
out in the sun.
It was like, on that note, itseems like it would be terrible,
but it was an excellent crew.
Xiao's a wonderful...
dear friend excellent talenteddirector producer uh but the but

(53:21):
the vibe was there i reallyreally enjoyed that crew i mean
i probably lost like five poundsof water but other than that it
was a good time and then ireally enjoyed as far as another
thing here i really enjoyed thevisit The Visit was a lot of
fun.
That was a graduate capstonefilm that had like a creature,

(53:42):
like a creature that was insupposed to be the form of like
the recently deceased mother.
And it was a beautiful cast.
Soren Anderson, who I mentionedearlier, was the producer who
hired me.
And every person that I see nowthat I worked on that film
with, it's like, It's like, oh,hey, remember when?

(54:02):
And I had a really good timewith that one.
And I've actually worked withboth of the lead actresses on my
own projects outside of TheVisit since then.
So it's become, you know, thatwas really a core film.
But as far as just sets ingeneral, I think the craziest
set that I've ever been on wasAmerican Horror Story, The Cult,

(54:23):
because I know they have likedifferent names for different
seasons.
I don't think we were actuallyin...
the series itself, it was justan advertising campaign.
There was 120 some oddprofessional dancers dressed as
creepy clowns, like fullprosthetic, bald wig, guys,

(54:43):
girls, big, small, prosthetic,all painted white.
It was like the Who's in TheGrinch.
Hours in the chair every day.
They were in a warehouse downin Manhattan Beach that was
huge.
And it was the size of aCostco.
And they had at least fourscenes being shot simultaneously

(55:03):
at all times.
I've never seen money burnedlike that in my entire life.
The producing table was like...
15 people long it wasabsolutely over the top and I
even knew then I think that wasthe first time I'd been on a set
where I was like this streamingboom is not sustainable like
this level of like insanity willnot last forever but it was

(55:26):
cool like I was on TV a bunchlike as a weird clown person and
I was also on the Sunset Stripon the poster like with my hands
over the actress's head andstuff it was a really good time
but it was over the top

Speaker 04 (55:41):
I would love to see something that footage
afterwards.

Speaker 01 (55:43):
Yeah, I'll

Speaker 04 (55:43):
definitely show it to you.

Speaker 01 (55:44):
I didn't know.
When did you do that?
2017, I think.
Oh, wow.
Oh, that

Speaker 04 (55:48):
was way before USC days.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, damn.
Okay, that's cool.
Speaking of USC, though, what'syour, like, you know, you're,
we're almost seniors now.
Yeah.
What is your impression of thefilm school?
Do you think it was worthstudying here?
What are some things you thinkcould be improved about it?

(56:09):
What are some things

Speaker 01 (56:10):
you really love about it?
I have had a great experience,and I'm not just trying to be a
poster child.
It's because I lived a life...
Mm-hmm.
If you were the one personwho's number one on the wait

(56:43):
list who didn't get in, theywould do anything to be in our
classes.
I think that if you're willingto talk to the professors, the
amount of information that is sofreely just thrown at us is
incredible, but you have to askfor it.
And so I think that that issomething that maybe sometimes

(57:05):
people get a little bitfrustrated by is it's not just
all, hand it out but but it'sthere and i think that after usc
the amount of people of highquality individuals in their
specific fields that we're gonnaknow is is crazy like i i was
in oregon for a brief stintbefore coming here and there was

(57:28):
like three of us that did filmin the entire city And I used to
always be like, oh, I'm thesecond best director and such
and such.
People would be like, oh, wow.
I'd be like, well, there's onlytwo of us.
Way to stay humble, though.
But I think that the network isincredible and it's maybe
sometimes hard to see it whenyou're here.
But, you know, like I think youguys have probably heard this

(57:50):
story, but like there's there'sseveral filmmakers that inspired
me to.
to come to this school.
And I've had the privilege ofmeeting almost all of them just
by being here.
And if I was to tell my12-year-old self that that was a
possibility, I would have beenlike, there's no way.
So I think it's a huge honor tobe here, but you have to bring

(58:14):
something to the table.
Getting here is not like justgetting to school, now my life's
set.
It's like, okay, now I've gottaprove that I went to USC film
school.
Cause so that that's kind ofthe stage I'm at right now.
Like, okay, like now's wherethe work starts.
It took a lot of work to gethere, but now I need to leave
and be able to show, like havesomething to show for it.

Speaker 03 (58:37):
Yeah.
I really do agree with that.
I think just putting all youhave into this great community
in this great school.
I mean, there's so many thingswhere we have to really just be
proactive about it and you can'twait to, for things to happen.
I think that's, really goodattitude to have for just anyone
who wants to pursue filmmakingbecause nothing will happen if

(58:58):
you really don't have the driveto just go hey i want to make
this happen i want to go fromzero to one i want to go from
nothing to something but at thesame time i think something you
mentioned that's reallyimpactful i think for for me
when i realized it was justbeing grateful for for um for
this community i mean it'sarguably the best place to be if

(59:19):
you want to pursue filmmakingit's got all these great
resources and Yeah, I mean, thegrass is greener where you water
it.
I think that's something I readsomewhere, and I think that's
such a...
You know, it puts a spin on theold, you know, the grass is...
How did it go?
The grass is greener on theother side of the fence or
whatever.
But yeah, I mean, I totallyagree.

Speaker 01 (59:39):
Yeah, and you know, the thing about that is...
It's not just us, because Ifeel like a lot of times here,
people go, oh, we're soHollywood.
Like, what if I went to NYU, orwhat if I went to AFI after
this?
And to me, I think instead ofspending time putting your
energy there, spend time intobecoming the filmmaker you want

(01:00:00):
to become, because...
I've hung out with a lot ofpeople from AFI and sometimes
they're like, oh, I wish weweren't so like auteur indie
focused.
And then I've met people fromNYU that are like, oh, I wish I
used, I knew how to use Avidinstead of only Premiere Pro
that I could have learned, youknow, off YouTube or whatever.
And so, you know, everyonefeels like, oh, well, if I did

(01:00:23):
this, I could have maybe hadthis more, but you can't do what
if.
It's like, this is like, it'sso, such a first world problem.
It is not, an issue to be likeoh man i'm at usc film school
what if i was somewhere elseit's like dude you're at

Speaker 03 (01:00:37):
yeah

Speaker 01 (01:00:37):
right usc film school that's freaking amazing

Speaker 03 (01:00:40):
yeah

Speaker 04 (01:00:41):
right and speaking of like you said after film
school is when you proveyourself that like you went to
usc film school right how do yousee yourself like right after
college like once you finishgraduation where do you see
yourself moving to next you knowwhat's the next big thing

Speaker 03 (01:00:57):
what's your first outbreak

Speaker 01 (01:00:58):
first act break so right after college i will
probably keep producing and ireally want to keep writing i'd
like to have i've got a coupleof features in the works that i
would like to have done and idon't have any sort of delusion
of like oh i'm going to sell itin six months or blah blah blah
but i just want to my goal aftergraduation is to not lose

(01:01:21):
momentum Because I can sit hereand be really confident and kind
of essentially lie to you guysabout like, oh, I'm going to go
direct this, go direct that.
It's like, I'm going to prepareas much as possible and then
see where things land, but thencontinue this work.
And that is one thing that isnice about coming from...
my previous careers, the worknever stopped there either.

(01:01:44):
And so I don't have thisdelusion that when graduation
comes, I'll be set.
When graduation comes, I'll bea graduate of USC, which is
wonderful and a total privilege.
But if I don't bring anything,it's not going to yield
anything.
So to answer your question,probably producing a few
projects for a few friends andmaybe some verticals or whoever

(01:02:07):
will have me at that point.
And then directing as much aspossible.
I'm really still in love withmusic.
I'd love to do some musicvideos, concert films, some more
short films and whatnot aswell.

Speaker 04 (01:02:21):
What would you do to like help pay the bills though?
Oh, produce for sure.
Yeah.
How does that work?
How do you make money right outof college?
I

Speaker 01 (01:02:29):
think it depends on what you're producing because if
you're going to produce likesomebody's feature that's has
basically just enough money forproduction that's a huge risk
and more of a resume um bulletpoint but for the verticals that
i've worked on they give you aproducing fee for per project

(01:02:51):
and so that's how i was able tosurvive over the summer and so i
would say work in anenvironment maybe like you know
junior line produce that's not areal a real term, but like line
produce smaller projects.
So you are getting that, thatfee because that is the hard
thing about directing.
I don't think there's a lot ofpeople that want to be

(01:03:11):
directors.
I don't think it's, it's atalent issue at all.
I think sometimes peoplepretend like it is, but
directing is hard because it'svery time consuming, but getting
paid to direct is a verydifficult place to be in.
So that's why I talk about thatmomentum.
It's like continuing to do thethings that are a sacrifice on
the weekend So eventually thatcould at least be part of your

(01:03:32):
income to direct films orcommercials or whatever.

Speaker 04 (01:03:37):
What is the directing or producing fee that
you see on vertical shorts?

Speaker 01 (01:03:43):
I mean, it's not much.
Honestly, if you break it downper day, it's not a ton more
than being a PA or a DP, but youwork for longer.
So you're getting paid all theway from...
pre-production all the waythrough can i know the number
though i because i work for thatbecause i work for that company

(01:04:05):
i don't think i'm allowed tosay it's a company kind of thing
it's not freelance um it's wellfor that company yeah i have a
contract with them when i workthrough them oh yeah

Speaker 03 (01:04:14):
yeah it's more like project based right

Speaker 01 (01:04:16):
like it's probably higher but some people do work
food At the verticals, this isworth saying, some people do
work on a salary at theverticals, especially in post.
I know a lot of people in soundand in editing where they go to
the studio.
I'm not sure where it is,Culver City or something, and
they're there full time.

Speaker 04 (01:04:35):
Gotcha.

Speaker 01 (01:04:36):
Is it

Speaker 04 (01:04:37):
like you get paid by season or paid by day or out?

Speaker 01 (01:04:41):
You get paid by project.

Speaker 04 (01:04:43):
And so usually a project is like five weeks.
Oh, so would you right now onlybe able to do it during the
summer

Speaker 01 (01:04:51):
then?
Yeah.
Gotcha.
It's, it's very intense.
I really enjoy the people thatI've worked with, but, um, one
time I was hired on a verticaland they were like, Hey, we'd
love to have you line produce.
We need a full locationsbreakdown with options by
tomorrow morning.
It's like 8 PM.
And we had like an 8 AM meetingand I had never seen the script
before.

(01:05:11):
Like they had just sent it tome.
So a lot of like things, I justwouldn't have time to do that.
I mean, unless I was going toget like a, see on every single
class that I took you know

Speaker 04 (01:05:21):
exactly and do you feel like it's creatively
fulfilling working on that

Speaker 01 (01:05:26):
I think it's exhilarating I think it depends
on your position if you're gonnado it for a long time maybe it
could get exhausting justbecause of the work but I know
at least a lot of actors anddirectors that they seem to be
it getting something out of it Idon't think that it's gonna
feel like you're directingOppenheimer at any point but I
it still is a creative job and ii know um a guy i worked for a

(01:05:49):
couple years ago that he has agreat time doing those because
he he thinks in over-the-topways and he's like a miniature
michael bay and he had such agreat he had such a great time
on those sets and he would belike guys we're making art after
like it was like a werewolfpunching a vampire or whatever
but like so i think it dependson where your head head is at

(01:06:12):
right

Speaker 04 (01:06:12):
cool you are balancing so many things like
again it always comes back tothis like how do you have time
for you know your wife and howdo you guys do a long distance
relationship with you in schooland stuff

Speaker 01 (01:06:24):
well we try to see each other as often as possible
and The fact that I'm in schooland the fact that she is in a
ballet company oddly complimentone another because the way a
schedule works for a balletcompany is very similar to a
theater company.
You rehearse for four or fiveweeks, give or take, and then
you go into the theater and youhave your tech week and then

(01:06:47):
your performance weekend.
And then usually because balletis so physical, there'll be a
couple of weeks off or at leasta few days off after each show.
And so when those happen,she'll come down here and spend
time with me.
And whenever we have a Mondayoff, whenever we've got a week
off, I am out of town all thetime.
So quite often people are like,hey, you know, the great time

(01:07:10):
to film this thesis would bespring break.
And I'm like, not with me.
I mean, you can, but bye.
So that's how we spend a lot oftime together over the
holidays.
And I really unplug from thefilm world over the holidays.
And just, you know, I stayconnected to people like you
two, who are my friends, youknow, to say like, you know,
happy new year or whatever but Ireally kind of let the work

(01:07:30):
kind of rest during those timesso we and also once again not to
make it like a schedule thingbut we just make sure it's a
priority that we talk multipletimes a day we talk every
morning every night unless I'mon set till like midnight or
something and even then you knowwe'll figure out another time
to chat during lunch or at leastleave each other little voice

(01:07:51):
memos like I personally thinkthat for any sort of
relationship there's somethingabout going beyond like texts
that I think is really importantbecause, you know, we weren't
meant to like write each othernotes and never see one another.
Like we were meant to look ateach other in the eyes and, and
hear the voice.
So that's

Speaker 04 (01:08:09):
a balancing act for sure.
I feel like it definitely tookyou guys like a bit of time to
figure out how to do that.
Right.
Because I would assume likebeing a part for, you know, work
or studies is difficult.
No,

Speaker 01 (01:08:23):
no, it is.
And I really love when thishasn't happened that many times
but whenever I've got a lot ofhomework and I get to go home
it's like man I wish I couldjust somehow be home every
weekend like I hate going to theairport and LAX and all that
obviously it's terrible but onceI'm there and we also have a
little dog I just love just youknow having my laptop out my

(01:08:44):
little dog like laying on my legwhile I'm doing you know what
USC work and sometimes those aremy happiest moments because I'm
the most fulfilled and it'sdefinitely a big adjustment
because when we first moved intogether everyone was was
warning us because you know whenyou're when you're in a new
relationship people are like ohyou know be careful about this
be careful about that and whenwe moved in they were like oh

(01:09:05):
we're gonna see like the realizzy or the real adam now and
then it's like a week went byand it was fine and all of a
sudden it was like a year and iwas like i'm still waiting for
the red flags and so we reallyhave we're very compatible
life-wise and so we do very wellwhen we're together so not
being together has been quite anadjustment because we just we

(01:09:26):
just mesh you know it's justlike it is ultimately it's like
romance there's more layers butit is ultimately just like a
friendship it's like it eithervibes or or it doesn't

Speaker 04 (01:09:36):
I agree.
And the other day, I had thatrealization that, you know,
being in the film industry,especially trying to be a
director and producer is such anunstable career.
We're having that traditionallike nine to five job and you
get to go home to the family andgo out on the weekends is not
really an option.
Because sometimes if you're,you know, directing a feature

(01:09:57):
film, you're on set for, youknow, a few months, you're
producing, you're on set for afew months.
And, you know, either you getto have a, you know bring your
family to set with you theywould have to leave everything
behind because most things areshooting out of the country now
in canada europe and stuff soit's like we have to make that

(01:10:18):
sacrifice to be able to likehave a job in this career which
i know part of me feels i don'tknow how to feel about it to be
honest it's um i don't know ikind of want to hear your take
on that

Speaker 01 (01:10:31):
you know it is difficult but it's not
impossible and the thing thatcomes with being very busy and
being out of the country is youalso have these times where you
can be home and my dad was apastor and musician and his

(01:10:52):
schedule was so weird like hewould be gone at night sometimes
to go record an album that hewas working on or he'd be off in
Europe doing some show but itdidn't hurt our family life
because he had that differentjob.
He spent so much more time withme during the day and going to

(01:11:14):
my shows and things like thatbecause he had a very odd life.
And I was very proud of what hedid.
And plus, kids are superadaptable.
I thought that, you know, dadsthat worked at night and had
long hair and like went toEurope and got to travel the
world and do all this.
I thought that was normalbecause, you know, you only know

(01:11:34):
what you know when you're alittle kid.
And so he loved me.
And that's what mattered.
Him being gone weird hours.
It was just like, oh, cool.
Like your dad comes home angry,waiting for a drink at five
every night.
My dad leaves happy at night togo do something he loves, you
know.
Right.

Speaker 04 (01:11:52):
I think, yeah, that's really well said.
I mean, I think anything isadaptable when you really try to
do it, you know, when you wantto put in the effort.
I guess only time will tell,you know, what would happen next
and how our life and careerwill mesh with our you know
personalized

Speaker 01 (01:12:11):
yeah

Speaker 04 (01:12:11):
and um i guess i'm pretty optimistic about hearing
what you know your father wentthrough and uh what you went
through you know

Speaker 03 (01:12:20):
that's great what was one principle quote or
mindset that got you through oneof the toughest periods of your
life

Speaker 01 (01:12:27):
this too shall pass as simple as that is because
sometimes on set when we'retired or just in life when we're
going through a lot it justfeels like time slows down and
you're never going to getthrough something but you know
like right now it's a nicerelaxed friday night with with
the three of us hanging out it'slike i could have never even
imagined this moment during likethe most stressful times of my

(01:12:50):
life so just knowing thateverything is temporary i think
is really a relief

Speaker 03 (01:12:57):
that's wonderful well Thank you so much, Adam,
for joining us on the show.
This was great.
Thank you for having me,

Speaker 04 (01:13:02):
gentlemen.