These Super Bowl Doritos Commercial Directors are Changing the Future of Hollywood | Zach and Ryan - First Act Break

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 05 (00:00):
After seeing Mike Tyson repost, if you go to his
comments, his comments...
Hate our commercial.
Did not like the commercial.
Don't like our commercial.
Yeah, and the views at the endof the day, I don't think
actually make any difference inthis contest.
Views don't mean anything.
It came down to not even likes.
Probably, what if you're alsohungry while your barber has

(00:22):
cheesy fingers?
The only reasonable outcome isto go

Speaker 03 (00:26):
and suck the finger.
And now we had a whole army ofpeople in Dorito costumes, and
we run around, and honestly,I've never had more confidence
wearing a Dorito costume justaround campus yelling at people
interrupting people

Speaker 05 (00:37):
i guess people aren't used to people our age
like making things that areactually

Speaker 03 (00:45):
good that if i would have won or i would have been
like the number one ad out ofall the commercials i aired

Speaker 04 (00:54):
welcome to the podcast thank you thank you
we're excited yeah how would youguys describe yourselves

Speaker 03 (01:01):
just in general yeah probably just like hot handsome
tall dark i'm

Speaker 02 (01:07):
not

Speaker 05 (01:08):
talking uh you know just two friends that uh kind of
found our way into makingmovies and um we don't hate each
other yet

Speaker 03 (01:17):
so we don't hate each other that's a positive
we've been working sincesophomore year of high school so
we would describe ourselves aslike weird creative probably
shouldn't be touching a camerabut somehow we got our hands on
one so now we're making ourmovies and I think that's been
super exciting yeah

Speaker 05 (01:33):
what's

Speaker 03 (01:33):
that quote

Speaker 05 (01:34):
from Jughead from Riverdale he's like I'm just I
just don't fit in no I'm just

Speaker 04 (01:41):
kidding dude you guys recently directed a
commercial that was a finalistat the Doritos Super Bowl
competition yes it was and youknow so many people voted that
it was top two in the world andthat's just so amazing to hear
right and i would love to hearlike how did you guys hear about
this commercial what like howdid you come up with the concept

(02:02):
and how did you execute it

Speaker 03 (02:03):
yes so since high school ryan i've always wanted
to apply for the competition thedorito super bowl competition
has been going on since like2006 it ran through 2016 and he
stopped it and they brought itback this year and in high
school when it was still aroundright like we have to apply for
this because it was so upperalley and even though we want to
make films and movies that wealso want to make a super bowl

(02:24):
commercial in our future Andthen you talk about like the
email.

Speaker 05 (02:28):
Yeah.
Then you, since it was like,they took it away in 2016.
We're like, oh, okay, well wewere planning on doing it in
2017, but that, you know, can'tdo it.
And then out of nowhere, USCsends an email and it's like, by
the way, this competition'sback.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, likewe have to get on this.
So then I, I have an emailchain with Zach and it's just

(02:51):
USC email, me forwarding it tohim.
And I said, oh, Let's go.
And he's like, let's go.
And that was it.
And that's like, we started it.
It was just like four words.
And we're like, we on the sameexact page.
And the funniest part was theysent this email on October 15th.
28th or like October 29th somelike crazy thing and the final

(03:11):
the end of the contest was likeNovember 11th or something no I
think 17 17 18 something like itwas like we had three weeks to
do it pretty much so we just hadto get the ball rolling as soon
as possible as quick and wewere working on like another

Speaker 03 (03:25):
project before yeah we were trying to make a short
film we totally dropped it wewere like yeah we're doing this
because we always wanted to doit and also like commercials
accessible it's 30 seconds itwasn't going to cost us too much
it didn't cost that much.
Um, so we, we met up, we cameup with the idea on the spot,
which is pretty cool.
That doesn't always happen.
And then we made it, got a teamtogether, shot it over a

(03:47):
weekend.
We had like a week and a halfof like pre-production, just
like getting the barbershoptogether, um, cast crew, et
cetera.
And then we shot it in like oneday.
It's like an eight hour day,which is pretty

Speaker 05 (03:58):
cool.
Yeah.

Speaker 03 (03:58):
It

Speaker 05 (03:58):
was a tiny day.
We were in at, 7 a.m.
and we were out by 3

Speaker 03 (04:04):
mm-hmm and then we edited in like three days and
then I do color he does sounddesign so that just took care of
everything and then we weredone and then we submitted it
and and the rest is

Speaker 05 (04:15):
history.
It's, it's, yeah, it was areally fun, fun time.

Speaker 01 (04:19):
I'm curious though, like so much of film is prep,
but you guys did not have thatmuch time to prep.
How did that affect thecreative process of like
bringing crew on, like coming upwith the idea?
I mean, how much did youstoryboard at all?
Oh

Speaker 05 (04:30):
yeah, totally for prep.
This is the first time we'veever, um, uh, pre did a previs,
like we shot the whole thing,um, on our iPhone, just at our
house.
Um, did that, uh, Twice,because we shot it once, edited
it together, watched it, goes,oh man, originally the main

(04:52):
character in it, he like reacheswith his hand and the barber
smacks his hand.
He was like, don't touch myDoritos.
Like that was like a line init.
And we watched it and showed itto people and they're like,
that doesn't work.
Like it doesn't make sense.
So then we're like, oh my God,it's so simple.
He just needs to shove his headback.
That's it.
And it's like by simplifyingthat beat, taking away the
dialogue, taking away that, itjust simplifies it to like that.

(05:14):
And the barber continuestelling his story.
It's more of a charactermoment.
So by doing the storyboard, itcompletely...
Our commercial, I'd say, hasthree jokes.
A beginning, middle, and end.
It's first joke, second joke,third joke, fourth joke, maybe
ending.
It saved our middle by givingus a better

Speaker 03 (05:33):
joke.
Yeah, because the blocking wasjust more natural.
It didn't seem too comical.
It seemed really realistic.
And I think, to yourquestion...
that less time honestly made usdial in a little bit more.
Cause we were never gettingdone a pre-visualization.
We had done a lot of photos.
We did like a photo edit too.
I forgot about that when welike just grabbed photos on the
internet and made an edit too.
And I think because we knew wedidn't have enough time and that

(05:55):
we only had like a couple hoursof shooting and a bunch of
other things, like we have toget it right, right?
Everything has to be perfect.
And then in the editing room,it should be super, super
simple.
Even though we didn't maketweaks in the edit, like, I
think because we had less time,we put in way more effort into
the prep than we usually do.
And that allowed us to like, Imean, shooting was so easy.

(06:16):
Oh my, set was

Speaker 05 (06:17):
like the best experience.
And it was because of the prep.
And so much like props to ourproducers, Joanna Song, Via
McBride, Miguel Tyson, becausewe did all that prep.
We get on set, we have eighthours with, I think we had to
get like 18 to 20 shots.
I think it was like 18, 20shots in that amount of time.
At no point did I ever feelstressed.

(06:37):
We had a full hour lunch in theday, maybe a 45-minute lunch.
We didn't skimp out.
We don't do that.
Good lunch is very important.
But the producers being sogood, getting everything exactly
how it needed to be even withthat time constraint and with
the prep, we still had time toexperiment on stuff during the

(06:58):
shoot.
It's not like we went in withthis plan and there was still
things that we changed thatended up being, my favorite shot
in the whole thing is thiscompletely impromptu thing.
It was supposed to be just thecamera slides over and we see
the third barber over kind ofgive a reaction.
Then it turned into, wait aminute, let's widen this shot.
We have the time.
Now it's three people doing areaction and I'm like oh my god

(07:21):
what if this like one guy'soutside of the shop and looks in
the window which was like Teddyour AD was like wait put like
this random guy in the window.
That would be so funny becausewe had the time to do it and we
had already prepped what wethought we were doing.
So it just gave us so muchfreedom to still have fun on set
and try new things.

Speaker 01 (07:39):
Yeah, I think that definitely translates into the
final product.
So yeah, it's so funny,hilarious.

Speaker 04 (07:44):
And like you guys had such a great team.
Like how did you guys puttogether this team of producers
and everyone

Speaker 03 (07:49):
else?
So, you know, the story is ablack story, right?
So we knew immediately like weneed like a black producer on
the project just so that we werekind of going the right
direction and and keeping thingson track and whatnot, just to
make it the most authentic,culturally representative
project that we could.
So we got our friend Tracy atfirst, and she was amazing, but
she was super busy because shewas working on 480, the senior

(08:10):
thesis.
So then she's like, I can be anassociate producer.
And she did so much work forus.
So very thankful for Tracy.
She's amazing.
And then we got our friendMiguel, my girlfriend, Via, and
then our really good friend,Joanna.
And they just worked so welltogether.
And like, that was like thecrew of like people just making
the things work.

(08:30):
They called like 30, 40 barbershops.
And then our friend Zaid, whowe've known since high school,
he shot it.
He did us a huge, huge favorand he made it beautiful.
So he put together his team.
And then everyone else was USCstudents in terms of like hair,
makeup, costume, Productiondesign was huge.

(08:51):
I think that was another thingthat we really doubt and we had
never really like focused onlike having a color palette and
whatnot I think it really showswithin The final product.
It's like okay Doritos is redSo we want everything else to be
blue to kind of contrast it andlike everything that we did
It's like alright blue jacketsand blue Decorations and stuff
like in the Doritos bag issurrounded and it just made it

(09:14):
look way more professional.

Speaker 05 (09:15):
Yeah.
Yeah the So yeah, crew, it'sjust, everyone was our friend.
Like we just knew everyone.
I think the only people thatended up being like new in terms
of crew, I think the only onewas the, who did production
sound, which is Eddie.
And like, he's super cool.
And he was a recommendationfrom another sound guy.

(09:37):
Cause I worked in sound aswell.
He was awesome.
I want it.
Like, he's so cool.
He made a joke on.
So do you remember that?
Yeah.
And you know, I love the factthat like, He was comfortable
enough.
He was comfortable enough to,like, after a take, he was like,
oh, I was supposed to berolling on that.
And everyone goes silent for asecond.
He's like, ah, no, I'm justplaying.
And they're like, you'refreaking out.
No one knew who he was atfirst.
They're like, he's the boy.
As soon as they did it, I'mlike, oh, yes.

(09:59):
I'm like, this is the guy Iwant to be working with right
now.

Speaker 04 (10:02):
Yeah, and you guys said that, because I was on
Instagram, like, when you guyswere doing the marketing for it,
and I saw Mike Tyson posted onhis story.
Like, that's so sick that, youknow, you had, who was the...
his relation that was on yourset?

Speaker 03 (10:17):
So our producer friend, Miguel, who we've known
since sophomore year, his dad isMike.
And it's crazy because he isone of the most genuine
beautiful people that we knowhe's just so kind also super
talented he's one of the mosttalented photographers that we
know he does like crazy naturalgeo stuff and now he's like been

(10:38):
wanting to step into the filmsphere this is the first thing
he's ever produced yeah this isthe first thing he's ever
produced in terms of film I meanhe's been on other sets but
like in terms of studentproduction he wanted to be on
something and I was like comejoin us.
Like I believe in you.
He was just so on it.
Like he just really helped usand he worked so well with
Joanna and via.
And I think, um, him also, youknow, someone being black just

(11:00):
helped us make sure that thebarbershop, because the
barbershop is such like a, Idon't know, just like a cultural
like sacred place.
Sacred place.
They're like, we want to makesure we get it right.
So he helped out with that,which is awesome.
That's sick.

Speaker 04 (11:11):
Yeah.
I mean, after you guys postedand it was like the days leading
up to the final result, I saw alot of like news outlets like
on Instagram posting about thecommercial.
And, you know, reading some ofthe comments, it was like people
were surprised with theconcept, you know?
Yeah.
Like what, how did you guyscome up with that?
Like the concept itself?
Yeah, of like him, you know,eating his

Speaker 03 (11:33):
food.
Okay, yeah.
so originally Ryan had pitchedbecause we called and he comes
over and we're like trying tocome up with ideas I had a

Speaker 05 (11:42):
script I wrote a script instantly and I was like
here's my pitch and I was justexcited.
I just got all my ideas out.
I wrote a Forrest Gump parodyof when he's running across
America to get the last Doritochip, that sort of thing.
By the end of it, there's aswarm of people following this

(12:02):
guy running after the lastDorito chip.
I'm like, oh, that would workif we had $8 million.
If we had a ton of money, Icould totally do that.
Zach was like, well, we can'tdo that.
I'm like, yeah, I just had toget that idea

Speaker 03 (12:13):
out.
Maybe we'll save it for anotherday.
I was like, well, let's thinkof something like that.
relatable I was like because Iwrote a couple things down like
everyone goes to the doctorsblah blah blah and I was like
well everyone gets a haircut soI was like it would be fun to do
a barber shop my first idea waslike the worst thing is if your
barber had cheesy fingers Isaid that would be the worst
thing possible and Ryan's likethat's not the worst thing

Speaker 05 (12:33):
possible no I'm like there's only one possible
outcome what if you're alsohungry while your barber has
cheesy fingers the onlyreasonable outcome is to go and
suck the finger you have to doit you gotta do it and so once
we had that it was just a matterof like putting it in a comedic
timing and order and then itgot to the point where he sucks

(12:53):
the finger and then he goes likeman what he freaks out we're
like boom commercial done andthen we're thinking and we're
like oh man but You're going tocall it commercials all have a
button at the end.
Every good commercial has thething, and then it's like,
what's the final punchline,though?
It's like, that's not enough.
What is the button?
What is the thing to do it?
And I was like, oh, my God.
He gets kicked out.

(13:14):
Because at the end of the day,a commercial needs to be a
success story, right?
Because you've got to get theproduct.
At this point, people are justweirded out.
But where's the success?
It's like, oh, my gosh.
He gets kicked out, and he getsthe bag of Doritos.
But at what cost?
And his hair is buzzed off.
Half of it's gone.
Yeah.
that was like the final buttonthat was like the thing that

(13:35):
took the longest was that finaljoke honestly the rest of it we
wrote probably in the matter offive minutes just like once we
came up with it it was like thisthis this done and then an hour
or so 30 minutes something likeoh this is that's that's what
makes the commercial a superbowl commercial in my opinion
yeah that's what it really wasbrings it around yeah

Speaker 04 (13:56):
no i mean let's be honest if The other guy didn't
have like such a following onInstagram.
Like this was definitely likethe battery.
Thank you.
Yeah.
I mean, it was

Speaker 05 (14:06):
so

Speaker 04 (14:07):
funny.

Speaker 05 (14:07):
You did come down to votes and like, you know, we
had so many things going for us,you know, like you said, Mike
Tyson reposted and that's a hugeamount of votes you would
think.
But at the end of the day, likeI really looked into the
numbers of this cause I was socurious cause I was like, I
don't do social media, but thisis a good time for me to kind of
learn and think about it in adifferent perspective.
And I realized, After seeingMike Tyson repost, if you go to

(14:31):
his comments, his comments.
hate our commercial.
Do not like the commercial.
Don't like our commercial.
And I realized, oh my gosh,like his fan base is not the
type of people who are going tosupport this commercial.
And also, they're not the typeof people to go out of their way
to, because in order to vote,you have to click a link, type

(14:55):
in an email, or scroll down,find us, type in an email, hit
vote.
That's like so many steps,right?
You need what I would considera dedicated fan base.

Speaker 03 (15:04):
And that's like The

Speaker 05 (15:05):
other people, so like Zach King and

Speaker 03 (15:07):
Halle Berry

Speaker 05 (15:07):
and a lot of

Speaker 03 (15:08):
the other people in the corner.
Hayley Bailey, not Halle Berry.
Hayley Bailey.
Hayley Bailey, yeah.

Speaker 05 (15:11):
And they had, you know, which is like big
influencers and big names.
And little ones, too.
That was the most, yeah.
It's these like little onesthat, when I say little, we're
talking like hundreds ofthousands, even tens of
thousands.
But the thing is, those peopleare reposting every day.
Mike posted twice, I think, anddid like a couple story
reposts.
Right.
And, you know.
that's super helpful and we hadthe school post for us too

(15:33):
school post I think two timesbut what you needed was daily
reminders from people withdedicated fan bases with
thousands of people who arewilling to go out of their way
tens of thousands even hundredsof thousands that will go out of
their way and

Speaker 03 (15:47):
you know we don't we don't have that but we did I
think we're proud of like thesocial media campaign that we
achieved because when werealized that we were going to
be in the top three we looked atbecause we didn't know
officially it was going to beNate and Dylan for the UFO ones
but we knew that they were goingto like definitely be in it.
And they also had like, I thinkDylan has like 5,000 followers,
which is like at that time wasa combined amount of followers

(16:08):
that we had.
And then the other guy had like20,000 followers on Instagram,
but like 7 million followers onTikTok.
We're like, okay, we need tolearn the social media game.
So we looked at each otherlike, we have to become
TikTokers.
We have to become Instagram.
So we were like, here's ourgame plan.
And we honestly made a ton ofcontent to practice that you'll
never see ever.
And now, and we got it goingand we were just surprised, like

(16:29):
things got, I mean, The minimumamount of views, I think,
looking back at our Instagramvideos, is like 15,000 views,
which is crazy.
That never happened before.
But things were getting 100,000and stuff.
And I'm now excited that Idon't have to do that anymore.
I don't want to be a guy who'slooking only at views and
whatnot because that's not whywe do it.
Yeah,

Speaker 05 (16:46):
and the views, at the end of the day, I don't
think actually make anydifference in this contest.
Views don't mean anything.
It came down to...
not even likes probably sharesdid it because if you're willing
to share you have to hit twothree buttons that already means
you're willing to do more andif you're sharing like mentally

(17:08):
doing the math I would say theconversion rate from like a view
to a actual vote Talking maybe1%.
I really think it was thatsmall.
I think it is really that smallof a percentage.
It's

Speaker 03 (17:21):
been so small.
And I think also, like,

Speaker 02 (17:23):
I

Speaker 03 (17:24):
don't know if you saw, but afterwards, right when
the voting closed, that's whenour video took off.
Like, it got, like, it gotreposted on Complex, a bunch of
meme pages, like, meme pagesthat I follow.
Kix reposted it.
Twitter got 6 million views.
TikTok had, like, three.
It was just, like...
Crazy how much traction it got.

(17:45):
We're like, ugh.
yeah now like you could havedone a little earlier but you
know super thankful for itbecause it's led us to a lot of
good things so yeah

Speaker 01 (17:54):
yeah yeah talk a little bit about the actual
marketing stuff of it because iremember seeing people wearing
dorito shirts or even likebigger what are those called
like costumes yeah they're likegigantic you know you see them
at parties or even just walkingdown the street talk about like
do you guys come up with thatidea or was it like members of
the team

Speaker 03 (18:10):
yeah it was members of the team because we knew i
mean kind of going back to whatwe talked about like we knew we
didn't have the social mediathing we're learning so we're
like okay the one thing that wedo have on our competition was
our ground game in terms of wehave a school we have a college
so we're like we're going toutilize that so we came up with
like having a booth a votingbooth and then the main thing
our friend Teddy he just boughtan Amazon like Dorito costume he

(18:31):
bought like one or two and thefirst day he ran around and he's
like this is working reallywell so then after the first day
we got so many votes so then Iordered seven more and now we
had a whole army of people inDorito costumes and we run
around and honestly I never hadmore confidence wearing a Dorito
costume just around campusyelling at people interrupting

(18:52):
people but like you just feltfearless and I think it also I
don't know about you but it justproved to me like how bad we
wanted it and how bad we justwant our career just like We're
willing to dress up in thesecostumes.
It was like a nine to five job.
Like we would start at like 10in the morning.
It was like

Speaker 05 (19:06):
nine to 10.
It's true.
Cause you go out to one night.
I remember later on, I think itwas the, the Wednesday, the
second Wednesday, nine OhWednesday, the big, the, you

Speaker 02 (19:15):
know, the bar night.

Speaker 05 (19:17):
I think we were, it was like started at 9am.
We ended at like 2am.
Yeah.
It was crazy.

Speaker 03 (19:21):
And I think, you know, it was just pure
adrenaline.
Like it was the most fun wehad.
And when, you know, when welost, I think we were sad that
we lost.
It was more of like a,depression of like those are the
two craziest weeks of our lifeand like it was like so high
adrenaline you know like comingoff that we're good now but it
was just so much it was so funand you know i'll always

(19:42):
remember that i think ourfriends will always remember
very thankful for their supportbecause you know my roommates
all dressed up as doritos hisroommates dressed up as doritos
random people wanted to dress upas doritos it's just like we
made a dorito movement So it waspretty awesome.

Speaker 04 (19:56):
And I remember your girlfriend's in one of my
classes.
Oh, yeah?
And she showed us the classbecause it was like a marketing
class about how to make it inthe industry.
She showed in that class.
And then you also, I think,were talking about it in our
cinematography class.
And I felt like everyone in theschool was talking about it,
you know?

Speaker 05 (20:14):
I...
Truly believe that of the I'mgonna go on the number of
undergrads because graduate, youknow, not as much at the school
But however many undergrads Ithink there's like let's say
15,000 at this school 17,000.
I truly believe 60 to 70percent of undergrads knew about

Speaker 03 (20:31):
these I hadn't heard about it at least because by
the by the end of the secondweek everyone at least every
other person because before thefirst week we're yelling at
people like I don't know whatthis is what is this what is
this and like stop talking to meyou're weird by the end of the
second week people are likeDorito guys I voted I know about
this and it was like everyother person which is pretty

(20:52):
crazy and like a ton of peoplewe had never met before like I
just sent this to my wholefamily group chat I was like I
have no relation with you butthis is so awesome like thank
you so it was so trippy so Ithink you know it was cool to
see how many people supported usand not just like oh just
because you're USC students weresupporting you, they liked the
ad.
I think that was reallyvalidating too.
The

Speaker 05 (21:12):
funniest thing that kept happening is people would
come up and we had QR codes onthese posters because it would
take them to the thing and we'relike, go find Barbershop, vote
for it.
Or then if they seemed weirdabout it, just watch them all.
Just watch them all and pickthe best one.
Every single time, peoplepicked ours.
And this is what would happenevery time.

(21:32):
They'd be like, ours isBarbershop, and they'd watch.
They'd be with a group offriends, and they're being all
nonchalant about it.
And then the commercial plays,and they're laughing.
And then one of their friendsis off to the side, all shy, not
doing anything.
And they turn to the friend,like, oh my god, come over, come
over.
They're like, it's actuallygood.
It's actually good.
And hearing, it's actuallygood, It made me think, I guess

(21:52):
people aren't used to people ourage making things that are
actually good.
It even came up when we went onKTLA 5.
We went on the news and we wereat the desk and they were
asking us.
A question that was asked was,is this the normal approach?
like, standard for collegekids?

(22:13):
Is this, like, what the levelthat people are making at USC?
And it was, like, aninteresting question because I
do believe that it is from a,like, creative potential and I
just don't think it'snecessarily always reflected
because of the limitations that,you know, you have within
school from all these differentthings, you know?
But, like, you know, It wasweird kind of hearing that from

(22:34):
students.
Oh, it's actually good.
They're shocked.
I'm like, oh, I hope thisstandard rises for student
filmmaking to be big and feelprofessional because it can.
I mean, getting into budget.
For the longest time, wecouldn't talk about budget, but
it's done now.
So the thing costs $2,500 tomake.
Oh,

Speaker 04 (22:52):
wow.
That's so

Speaker 05 (22:54):
nice.

Speaker 03 (22:55):
Obviously, we had a lot of favors to pull, but we
made it work.
Our producers, they made itwork.
But I mean, it was self-funded.
Brian and I said...
Originally, we tried to do1,000 or 1,200.
That wasn't going to work.
We had to bump it up a littlebit.
That's just from us, from outof pocket, from us working as
hard as we can through colorstuff and sound stuff.

(23:16):
Anyone who

Speaker 05 (23:18):
knows about making movies or commercials, this is
an expensive commercial.
If any company was deliveredthis or...
paid to get this made, I trulybelieve, I mean, this thing's
upwards of $100,000, $200,000.
It's an expensive commercial tomake just from a production

Speaker 03 (23:36):
standpoint.
And if you add stars and stuff,it could be a couple millions.
It depends.
Totally.

Speaker 04 (23:41):
That's so sick.
And seeing the buzz that thisgenerated was great.
And what was the opportunitiesthis led you guys to afterwards?

Speaker 03 (23:51):
Yeah, we've been super blessed.
I feel like we've gotten twotypes of opportunities.
One through the ad space andthen one through the narrative
space.
Honestly, as of now, a littlebit more on the narrative space,
which has been kind of cool.
From the ad space, we gotreached out by Manscaped, so
hopefully we're gonna be workingwith them.
We don't know what yet.
So hopefully something withthem, which would be really

(24:11):
cool, because we love theirbrand, and it's so up our alley
in terms of comedy and whatnot.
They're so funny, and the

Speaker 05 (24:16):
people we met there, they're such down-to-earth,
cool people.
We'd just love to work withthem.
That would be so fun.

Speaker 03 (24:22):
And then another production company that's done a
couple cool things, they'vereached out and they want to
work with us.
Main thing from the narrativestandpoint, we have a couple
agencies looking at us.
The main one is UTA, sopotentially...
We'll see what happens withthat.
That's amazing.
It's been pretty cool.
So we're trying to getrepresentation as a duo, as a
writer-director duo.
It's hard to get represented asa duo.

(24:42):
And I think it's tricky.
But we also believe since we'vebeen working together for so
long, that hopefully kind ofshows that it's not like we just
did this one course.
We have a whole body of worktogether.
So we're trying to getrepresentation because I think
that will allow us to be takenmore seriously by bigger studios
and whatnot because we're readyto get to the next level.

Unknown (25:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 04 (25:01):
absolutely you know i'm actually interning for a
director duo right now oh sickum do you know matt and tyler of
radio silence so they made thenew scream movies oh ready or
not abigail oh yeah so they'relike this duo of directors who
just like one is more focused onactors and one's focused on
cameras and they're just makingall these things together and

(25:22):
it's like it's sick i love thatand i think you know they're i
heard they were at a dga courttrying to fight for the credits
of director duos and i think inthe future there's gonna be a
lot more director duos and

Speaker 05 (25:34):
yeah I think they're looked at like in a weird lens
you know I think especially withlike the Daniels who is at
least For us, it's our biggestinfluence.
I love the Daniels.
Ever since 2015, they made thisshort called Interesting Ball,
which everyone should watchbecause it genuinely changed the
way I thought about movies andcomedy and dark comedy and

(25:56):
films.
It's really weird, but you cansee how that turned into
everything ever all at once.
And how they, I think, havehopefully opened up the door a
little bit.
Now with whoever did Talk toMe, I forget their name, the
brothers.
The Rocker Rockators.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Them.
They're.
Them.
And now you said Matt and Ty.
Like all these things areopening up and becoming more

(26:18):
common.
And I hope people don't.
The one thing I am worriedabout is that people are going
to start intentionally trying toforce themselves into a duo.
Yeah.
If that happens.
Like from my.
I think it is so much harder tobe in a duo.
Yes.
I mean as we've still.
You know we've made our own.
Plenty of our own projects.
Me.
Him.
You know with our thesis film.

(26:39):
The junior thesis and all thisstuff.

Unknown (26:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 05 (26:41):
They're just, it's so much easier to make a film by
yourself.
Like it really is.
Because no one's telling youyou're wrong.
We just tell each other we'rewrong all the

Speaker 03 (26:50):
time.
All the time.
That's all we do.
But you know what's interestingis like everyone, like some of
the best filmmakers all havesome type of creative partner.
Everyone has a creativepartner.
Whether that's like a writingpartner, a producing partner.
we're just a directing duo,right?
But everyone has it because youneed that other person to
bounce off because one person'sjust not enough.
And even like the best peoplethat you can think of all have

(27:12):
one person at least.
Yes.

Unknown (27:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 05 (27:14):
Yeah, there's so many examples of it.
I mean, who's the brothers whodid Good Time?
Safdie Brothers.
They have a writer, I think awriter-editor partner.
I forget his name, but there'sa third one of that.
You look at Luca right now.
He has his writing partner.
The one who wrote Challengersnow has written, wrote Queer and
also wrote now this other onecoming out with Andrew Garfield,

(27:38):
Neo Debris.
I forget the names of all thesemovies, but everyone has that
partner and we just happened tofind it in a direct Acting.
partnership because we're bothstubborn no but like you know it
could that's just how it how itkind of unfolded since high
school

Speaker 03 (27:52):
and it just worked I mean I think you know on set it
works and in the editing roomit really works I think that's
where honestly we prideourselves in like we're proud
that we run a good set but likein post productions where we
shine because I think weunderstand it the best

Speaker 05 (28:04):
and for like narrative our you know we've had
Charlie who is my roommate whoI've talked about Charles
Weinstein he is like our editorbecause you know it didn't think
didn't pan out when it came tothis commercial because of time
he wasn't able to help us outbut like for every future thing
like he is our guy because he'ssuch that third person just

(28:25):
being able to come in and belike well have you thought about
this oh my gosh that justopened up and he's a genius as
well genius director writer likehe's brilliant and everyone
needs to remember that namebecause he's gonna be so famous
like he's killer yeah

Speaker 01 (28:39):
I'm curious like how do you guys bounce ideas off of
each other and when there'slike creative conflicts like I
said you guys are stubborn maybeyou have one idea and then you
have an idea that's completeopposite how do you guys find
maybe a middle ground or maybesometimes even reconcile and be
like hey you know what you havethe right idea here let me take
a step back like how do you guysbalance that in general

Speaker 03 (28:59):
I think it's been learning about like you know I
mean it's hard I mean it's hardwe're humans right it's just
like you know, we both have anego, right?
We're both super egotistical,but we're learning as like best
idea wins because at the end ofthe day, like a film, it doesn't
matter how good it looks, whattype of actors you have.
At the end of the day, if it'snot a good story, everyone's
going to check out.
Like every single person willcheck out.
So I think focusing on likemaking that a priority, like we

(29:21):
just like, I think what's kindof like happened and we talked
about is like somehow I'llusually bring in like a basic
concept, like a bigger concept.
I'm like, what do you think,Ryan?
And Ryan's like, this isawesome.
This is how like, then he getsmore niche.
And then he throws it back tome and then I'll like fine tune
it.
And I think we just kind ofkeep ping pong and going back
and forth until we get into likea solid thing.

(29:42):
But I would say usually I comeup with like a broader concept
and then Ryan really likenarrows it down.
Can you correct me if I'm

Speaker 05 (29:48):
wrong?
No, yeah, 100%.
That's typically been the wayit works And now going into
features, it's the same exactway.
And also, what's really funnyis we've gotten to one fight.
Ever.
Like an actual fight.

Speaker 03 (30:04):
We argue all the time.
Yeah, like

Speaker 05 (30:06):
an actual fight and it lasted probably 30 to 45
minutes and it was freshman yearwhen we were making a film of
ours at the end of the semester.
It was called Please Hold whichwas also made with our friend
Teddy Nissen who's, you know,he's super talented.
Awesome writer, director,everything.

(30:27):
He does everything.
And so we got in like one fightand since then I'm just like
Like.
You know, we just don't dothat.
I mean, whenever we have, youknow, we have disagreements, I
say, we always say no.
We never say yes to, like, thefirst idea.
And we're so blunt.
If we have a bad idea, I go,

Speaker 03 (30:45):
love it, bad idea, put it in the trash.
We also know when we are bothon the same page and excited, we
found something.
Like, it's, like, very clear,like, that is the best idea
because we're both like, ah.
Just feel it.
Just feel it.
Because, like, when you don'tfeel it, and you throw an idea,
and Ryan's like, eh.
And if Ryan throws an idea, andI'm like, eh.
We know that there is somethinginherently wrong, and we don't

(31:07):
know what it is yet.
I think more we just getfrustrated, not at each other,
but it's like, we can't figureit out.
That's what it is.
We can't figure it out.
But then once we figure it out,we're excited.
I think we really got to testout our chops with writing a
feature, because we realized allthese opportunities are coming.
We got to start making stuff.
So I had a film idea, and itwrote the first act.

(31:29):
draft I was like boom I waslike Ryan here Ryan's like this
is great has great legs howeveryou need to do like he gave one
big idea and I was like

Speaker 05 (31:41):
I read it and I was like this is great but the
second act just falls apart atthe midpoint it like dies the
whole movie just died so I waslike okay revamp the whole thing
go back to page 40 eraseeverything

Speaker 03 (31:53):
after usually you'd be like you know I feel like it
was not personal no not personalI'd be like no I put so much I
deleted all 70 pages that Iwrote and I restarted.
I just listened.
I was like, he has a goodpoint.
I like his idea.
It's not personal.
We just want to make the bestthing possible.
Rewrote it.
And then I gave him again.
And then because originally hewas going to rewrite it, but he

(32:14):
was on 480.
And then he kind of rewrote thethird thing.
So it's like, you know, again,we just know that we're trying
to make the best thing andthere's no personal.
We just want to make somethingcool.

Speaker 04 (32:25):
Yeah.
like how do you spread the worklike amongst each other you
know on whether on set orpre-production uh

Speaker 05 (32:31):
sets we i don't really know how we are on set
i've tried to ask people becausewhen you're on set i'm not
self-aware at all like i'm justso in what i'm doing whenever i
see videos of myself on set icringe like there was a video
that was in one of the campaignvideos we did where i'm like
looking at monitor i'm likedoing this with my hair and zach
is like seeing the phone andhe's like yeah yeah and i'm like

(32:53):
like we do a take and like thetake was perfect it's the one we
use in the film I go and Zachis like cheering you know and
it's just how we are differentlyI don't know like I think Zach
is usually the like say on setright if we're directing he is
typically he sets the scene likehe's the one who lets people

(33:14):
know what this like broad kindof thing like we said big broad
guy and then as a take goes on Ithink I'm the one more focused
on making like tweaks.
I like details.
I like tweaks.
I like moments.
The whole broad thing He cantake care of that.

(33:35):
I really think so.
And I think by focusing onthose things, it's a lot easier
to not miss anything.
We know we're getting thethings we

Speaker 03 (33:46):
want out of it.
Because it's good to have both,right?
The broad, you need it toactually understand the story.
But if you don't have thespecifics, then it's a boring
movie.
But if it's just the specificsabout the broad, then you have
no idea what's going on.
It's interesting, but it'slike, what is going on?
So I think it balances out.
And then I would saypre-production...
It's just random.
And then post-production, whatit's usually been, now that it's

(34:06):
nice that we have an editor,because before we used to edit
our own stuff and it would belike, kind of, I would do the
general first edit.
I'd be the broad edit.
Then Ryan would do the moreniche edit.
We would go back and forth.
Now that we have an editor,it's been really interesting.
I think a great exercise inlearning how to edit without
touching the computer and Ithink it's so important for
every director to do that thebest directors are the best
editors so I think like you needto know how to edit but you

(34:28):
need to also learn how tocommunicate because like you
know it's so tempting whenCharlie is like editing we have
an idea and I just want to likeget on the keyboard and like
well if you do this and likeevery once in a while we do it
because we're not trained yetbut we're getting better I don't

Speaker 05 (34:42):
know if maybe you experienced this with like doing
junior thesis because it's yourfirst time editing something
for someone and depending I wasvery fortunate I had the best
310 my trio was killer right andyou know they were very kind in
how they communicated but I youknow you look around and you
witness things where someone'slike just like a frame a frame
back no frame back a frame andit's like I could never do that

(35:05):
like say that that's just likenot there's no point because a
frame is not what you're lookingfor, it's a feeling, you know,
that you're trying to do andyou're not going to get any
feeling out of being surgicaland

Speaker 03 (35:15):
robotic.
And you can, you know, you cando that at like the very, very
end.
But if you do that in thebeginning, like it's like, it's
over, it's over, it's over.
The movie's over.
You have to be able to trust,you know, your people that
you're working with.

Speaker 01 (35:26):
Yeah, going off of that, like how do you build that
trust with each other and alsoyour other collaborators?
Like you go with the specificsand you're more in the general
aspect.
How do you let go of worryingabout the specifics or how do
you go about letting go of thegeneral bigger vision and just
really focus on the details?
I

Speaker 03 (35:42):
think it's time and it's also just like we know each
other that we will give 120%everything that we ask of each
other.
And I think like knowing that,like I know like when I give a
script to Ryan I don't need tolike, obviously I'll look at it
eventually, but if you want togive it to someone, I don't need
to look at it again.
Cause I know he's going to doeverything in his power to make

(36:03):
it as good as possible.
And I think that's what thepeople that you work with too.
It's like how passionate arethe people that you're working
with?
That is the trust that you'regoing to have.
Because like, as long as youknow that they're doing
everything you can and you liketheir style and whatnot, that's
all you can ask for.
Cause like, we know that wecan't shoot and we can't do
everything.
I think we just know like thepeople that we surround
ourselves with are the best atit.
And like they, they'repassionate about it.

(36:24):
So we're just going to let themdo their thing.
We're not going to try to stepon their

Speaker 05 (36:26):
toes.
And as you know, I'm sure youguys as well probably started
being the every man when itcame, you know, you did
everything on all your projects,right?
That's my assumption.
That's how I think a lot ofpeople start with film and
that's how we were.
And you know, regardless of hismethods, there's a lot of,
like, a lot of people havetalked about, like, David
Fincher, for example, right?
Like, I love his movies.

(36:47):
I disagree with the fact thathe does all these, like, crazy
amounts of takes and all thatstuff.
But, like, you know, the onething I really appreciate about,
I've seen, like, documentariesbehind the scenes of, like, The
Social Network, which is such agreat behind-the-scenes doc.
But, like, there are alwayscharacters, the people in the
movie, they're talking aboutheads of the department.
They're like, you know, DavidFincher could take my job right
now.
You know?
And I'm like, that's aninteresting thought.

(37:08):
They're, like, exaggerating,but...
Everyone we work with, like,they...
I know for a fact that they dotheir job better than we can.
And that's because we lovetheir work.
Our DP, Zaid, I could never dowhat he's doing.
Who am I to step on him?
Sometimes I joke with himbecause we have good rapport.

(37:31):
I'm like, oh, Zaid's looking alittle commercially in this.
We need to joke around, butZaid gets it because we have a
good relationship.
And just like our editor,Chuck, I know he has incredible
taste.
So it's like when he's doingsomething and he makes a
decision, I might not like it atfirst, but I'm like, you know,
he's thinking about this likeother part and it's just, you

(37:53):
know, working with people thatyou know, you love their work as
well and you hope they loveyour work.
So it's like this mutual, likesymbiotic, like thing because
you never want to be likeworried about like, if at any
point you're thinking you can dosomeone else's job better than
them.

Speaker 02 (38:11):
Yeah.
you know

Speaker 05 (38:14):
you're you're you're set up for like a real not even
done but it's it's hard becausethen you lose the trust when
you lose it's like anyrelationship you know without
trust there's nothing it's thefoundation of everything so if
you lose that trust on seteverything is going to fall
apart and it's really hard tomove

Speaker 03 (38:32):
forward and i would say like trust is so important
with your confidence i think 80of directing i would say is just
being confident yeah rightbecause like You're the captain
of the ship.
The moment that someone seesthat you're breaking, then the
whole ship's going down, right?
So it's like having a goodpoker face, but also one, when
things are going wrong, shovingit in and be like, okay, I'm

(38:53):
just gonna, everything's fine,right?
But

Speaker 05 (38:56):
also like- Any decision is like, even if it's
the wrong, the wrong decisioncan be better than no

Speaker 03 (39:01):
decision.
And then it's being justconfident in like your decisions
is going to make you a betterdirector but also just being
confident in your crew right andhaving that trust is going to
allow you to be a betterdirector because then you're not
you know oh well I don't knowit's just like boom I want this
this that I think that's whybecause the amount of prep that
we did on the Doritos commerciallike we were so confident on
set and we like knew exactlywhat we wanted we had fun

(39:24):
because like we had a visioneveryone knew on set like what
they were doing and I think thatallowed us just to like come in
with like a I don't know wejust came in with a rapport and
like ready to go

Speaker 04 (39:34):
yeah dude I love what you said earlier about like
finding people that are betterthan what you do and you pointed
out Ethan Chu on that slateearlier yes that was the first
like actual film where I had adedicated DP because I would
always direct and DP and I hewas the producer on that film
actually yeah yeah yeah and hetold me that same thing he's

(39:55):
like you gotta find people thatare better than what you do in
those departments and then Ireached out to Ethan Chu because
he was um there's theall-american high school film
festival and his film beat myfilm yeah one year so i dm'd him
like years i hate you and i waslike oh no i was like trying to
ask like how do you do what youdo and then years later i'm

(40:16):
like reaching out again i'm likehey i i'm at usc now like do
you want to work on somethingtogether and then you know he is
such a good dp and does such agood job better than what i
could do so i love what you saidwith that and speaking of like
you know starting out andbeginning your film careers like
how do did you guys start out

Speaker 03 (40:35):
you know I started with yeah Lego stop motion was
my first thing so I startedmaking like Lego stop motion on
my this little camera and Iwould just take a bunch of
photos and I play it back reallyreally quickly and I'm like
things are moving I thought itwas the coolest thing and my
parents were hoping it was justgonna be a hobby but I just kept
finding myself doing like honeyhe's touching the Legos again

(40:58):
yeah he's doing the Legos againand then like I was I had my
iPod 4 and I downloaded actionmovie effects and I was making
things explode and my they werelike this is awesome and I made
like Nerf War battles and then Ithink it was like 2010 and I
saw on YouTube it was Lego BlackOps I don't know if you guys
have seen this thing and itstarts off this guy just running

(41:20):
with these people.
Pew, pew, pew, pew.
And he's like killing all theselittle Lego guys.
And the Lego guys are shootingeach other and killing each
other.
And I was like, as a kid, I waslike, I have to make this.
I was like, this is the coolestthing in the world.
So I was like, I tried torecreate it, but I didn't know
what stop motion was because Iwas an idiot and I was 10 years
old.
So I put the Lego thing.

(41:40):
I was like, wow, my hand, I wasmoving it.
I'm like, my hands, how didthey not put their hands in a
string?
And my mom actually is like, Ithink it's called Lego.
stop motion.
Shout out mom.
So I started doing that.
It's her fault.
It's her fault.
But I think something I alwaystalk about is I grew up with
YouTube.

(42:00):
YouTube was my teacher andYouTube I think was something I
gravitated towards.
I honestly didn't watch thatmany movies growing up.
I'm so bad at watching movies.
I have no director knowledge oractor knowledge.
It's not there.
But YouTube because when I sawa YouTube video I was like I can
make that because with like amovie you're watching like I can

(42:22):
make that when I was a kid butwhen I saw YouTube it was like I
can make that there was a tonof tutorials on like how to make
it like indie filmmakers andindie mogul and like all the
other like YouTube channels FilmRiot that type of thing exactly
so and Honestly, the firstvideo that I watched was Zach
King.
Not his magic trick videos, hemade these skits and I loved
them and he taught how to make asteady cam with wood and pipe

(42:46):
and I built it.
I went to Home Depot, I spraypainted it black.
But YouTube taught me how to beaccessible, learn the technical
things, learn somewhat of astyle and I think Ryan could
speak and eventually we wouldmerge.
Yeah, and so

Speaker 05 (43:01):
for me, I...
I always, like, loved movies.
I watched a ton of movies as akid growing up.
I always loved them.
But I never, like, pieced ittogether that that was something
I was going to do.
And then I...
My friends, Gabe and JalenChoi, who, like, are the coolest
people ever, they had a YouTubechannel called Fresh Dudes
Productions.
And they made YouTube videosthat were, like, very much in,

(43:22):
like, the Ryan Higa realm.
Like, yeah, you know.
And I was always watching RyanHiga.
I'm like, oh, my God.
These are, like, the funniestthings ever.
And so...
they would do those shortlittle videos.
And then I was like, oh my God,I want to make one with you.
And so then I would help themon like a couple of them.
And then I just ended up makinglike edit videos, like scooter
edit, like stuff.

(43:43):
My brother was actually doingthat before me.
He did edits and I was like,that's cool.
Maybe I'll try that.
And then that grew into, inhigh school, we had the chance
to audition.
Like you had to audition forour film program, which was like
only 15 kids at the time.
And it was through this programcalled film ed which is public
school too yeah public schooland like all this stuff and so

(44:06):
we ended up making it into thatclass together um and he he was
he this is sophomore year he waskind of like this odd one out
everyone in that class knew eachother in some way i think i
came from a different middleschool yeah he came from a
different middle school and likeuh just what we like he wasn't
we just didn't know i had nofriends i know i know yeah he

(44:29):
had no friends and so he comesin and you know at first week
he's like make a film and bringit in or whatever and i'm like
oh yeah like i want to make amovie and brought it in and out
and then i thought it was okayand then zach showed his film
and everyone was like Like, thisthing's good.
And I remember being like,okay, okay.
And then I think Zach watchedmine, and he was like, oh, yeah,

(44:51):
like, this thing's good.
And then we hated each other.
You have two options from thatpoint.
You either make him your ally,or you become, like, enemies.
You know, you become enemies.
So then the next project camealong, and I was like, so, Zach,
like, I don't know, you had,like, a pretty decent film.
You know, like, make a movie orsomething.

(45:11):
Yeah, like, we're flirting.
We're just like, you want to,like, make a movie?
And we did it.
And this next movie we made, webring to class, and it's badass
for our time.
We're like, this is really goodand funny.
And people are like, oh,there's something here between
these two.
And from then on, we just madeeverything together.
And it was just like everysingle project.
I mean, I've kind of gone backand tried to organize everything

(45:33):
we've ever made.
I mean, we're talking like 40,50 short films, just like the
one minute, two minute, likeover four hours of like shorts
and stuff that...
And that's a practice.
And that's just practice.
You know, no one's ever goingto see those.
One day maybe.
Hey, maybe one day.
And...
you know it kind of just grewand film ed was like the coolest
thing being educated like overthe summer doing this like

(45:54):
program which taught you how tomake movies and you submitted to
the orange county film festivaland you competed in all this
stuff and it all kind of justgrew from there until we were
like got to the point where likeokay well we gotta apply to
colleges and we've been makingall these films together we you
know we're like well the odds ofus you know going to the same

(46:16):
school are none like it's notgonna happen schools they pick
people not from the same arealike you know they try to spread
it out a little bit because thewhole world submits tens of
thousands of things like we'renot gonna get in the same school
and we both got into USC oh mywhat what are the odds that's so
like that's crazy low like howdid that even happen and also
both getting into filmproduction which especially that

(46:38):
gets split up so often herelike you go to maps you go to
cams they just put you somewhereand we both got it so then once
we got here We just were like,we got to establish ourselves.
And our freshman year, we putin work.
We made like five short films,I guess?
Like five short films.
Because it was this class wherewe had full freedom.

(46:59):
We had assignments, but youcould make whatever you want,
kind of with whoever you want.
And we just did that.
And every time we madesomething together, we were
aware that we kind of neededto...
prove ourselves in some way youknow because part of film
school is competition and Ithink that's so healthy you know
there's a way it gets toxic butlike I'm so glad we had a class

(47:21):
that was competitive becauseeveryone started making their
like best work

Speaker 03 (47:25):
possible you know you're in a I think like in high
school You know, you stick outif you like try really hard,
right?
I think USC, what's cool islike everyone, every single
person is gonna try to make thebest thing possible.
Cause we are all the kids thatwere like, I'm going to make the
coolest project for my littleproject that technically doesn't

(47:45):
matter in high school, butyou're going to do as much as
possible to make it as good.
Now everyone's on that samelevel.
Everyone's like, I'm goingballs to the wall.
I'm going to do everything Ican to make this the perfect
thing possible.
It's intimidating when you seeother people throwing it out,
but it pushed us.
We're going to stand out.
I think what was interesting, Iforgot who it was.

(48:06):
It won't name, but someone hadsaid with our films, Zach and
Ryan made YouTube videos.
I remember Ryan It was like atiny sting, but at the same time
it was like a oh like well youknow what we need to start
making our things a little morecinematic in terms of like a
story and whatnot and that Ithink that elevated our stuff
quite a bit like we reallystarted thinking of like story

(48:27):
not just because we make thingsentertaining and I think that
like we're so lucky that we lovemaking things entertaining
because that's what most moviesare most movies are sorry I just
totally just bumped that mostmovies are like weird and you
just don't realize it becauseyou're thrown into that world
but like that's kind of naturalfor us so we just start getting
the story aspect down

Speaker 05 (48:48):
yeah that was kind of the growth into college and
kind of led to you know justkeep on making things but yeah
the start was definitely likefor both of us before high
school met in high school andthen here

Speaker 04 (48:59):
that's sick what did you think made both of you get
into usc film production

Speaker 05 (49:05):
well actually that's interesting because we kind of
did this thing we like made twofilms, kind of together.
We helped each other out onboth of our USC applications,
and we knew which ones we weregoing to submit.
I was like, I had this idea forthis.
I had this preconceived thingin my head.
I'm like, USC expects thiscertain thing.

(49:27):
There's a meta to this.
It's like, okay, there's ameta.
I can play the game, that sortof thing.
I've learned that thereactually is not.
There is not a meta.
I have no idea how...
I truly think it is, like, flipa coin, they like it, and then
do an interview, and then theinterview is, like, you know,
the thing, probably, that theykind of go, yay, you know,

(49:49):
gladiator type shit.
And so we, like, picked thesetwo films.
I did this, like...
not a comedy.
I did a film about a kid tryingto make the perfect paper
airplane and in his imaginationit comes to life and it's like
partially his face is animatedand it's like a mixed media
thing which is like it turnsinto a toy story where the paper

(50:13):
airplane gets neglected as thekid grows up and then the air
conditioning blows him out thewindow one day and there's
another little kid on the streetwho finds this new toy and it
kind of starts that cycle again.
And so it was very much a ToyStory 3, like, you know, hand
off of the toys.
That's all it was.
And it got him in.
And it got him in.
And then Zach helped on that.

(50:34):
And then for Zach's, his thing,you can talk

Speaker 03 (50:38):
about.
Yeah, because I think I toldmyself, like, you know what?
I want to make the thing that Iwant to make in film school.
Like, the weirdest thingpossible.
And if they don't like it,like, then, like, you know, I'll
go somewhere else.
Because originally I actuallymade it for the Chapman things.
I had another idea for USC, butI liked how it came out so
much.
I'm like...
If USC wants me, they're goingto take this.
And that was the Santa video.

(50:59):
It was like a 16 year old kidwho still believes in Santa
Claus, but he wants to kill himbecause he hasn't gotten any
presents that he wanted oranything.
He's never gotten any presents.
So he devises his whole plan.
And by the end of the film, helike poisons like the cookies
and whatnot.
And he's waiting on the couchfor it to happen.
And he wakes up and he sees hisdad eating the cookies because

(51:21):
Santa's not real.
And he kills his dad.
And it was like, yeah, yeah,yeah.
So it was dark and I was like,this is awesome.
And that got me in and Ryanhelped out with that too.
And I remember that was theworst writing block I'd ever
had.
It was scary because I couldn'tthink of any movie ideas Which

(51:44):
is scary because now I feel likeI'm flowing.
But then I was...
We haven't

Speaker 05 (51:48):
had writer's block in a long

Speaker 03 (51:50):
time.
But it was really bad because Iwas like, I need to come up
with a thing or I'm not going toget into school.
It was like the pressure,right?
So every day I would godownstairs into my living room
and I would just talk to my momand dad.
I'm like, do you guys have anyideas?
And they're like, no.
And I did it for probably threemonths.
And finally my mom was like,you should do something about
telling your kid that Santa'snot real.
And then...
I was like, boom.

(52:11):
And things started moving.
And I called Ryan.
I was like, Ryan, what do youthink?
And Ryan gave an idea.
The guy who was like the DoctorStrange.
Yeah, like, this is it.
This is it.
And then I posted it onYouTube.
It was like, collegeapplication film, like USC.
And it blew up.
It was just cool.

Speaker 05 (52:26):
Yeah, it's now, I think, whatever.
Not that I'm jealous oranything.
But, like, his is now, like, Ithink mine didn't get any views,
whatever, when I posted it.
But his, I think, is now the...
the second highest USC likeapplication film accepted on
YouTube now or something likethat after Liam Loughran who had
like two legendary ones whichwas like some like pizza

(52:47):
delivery and like shotgun wasabout the baby getting kidnapped
and whatever which is justiconic I wonder where he is man
I wonder that

Speaker 03 (52:55):
too here's everyone's like inspiration

Speaker 05 (52:58):
no because I remember I checked his YouTube
channel at some point I think Isaw his like 310 which was about
like The robber woman?
The robber.
The person goes in, steals adress, and then he likes the way
it looks on him.
Something like that.
I don't know.
I don't remember exactly, butit was sweet.
It was cute.
I have no idea where he's now.
Hopefully, he's doing good.
Hopefully, he's doing good.

(53:19):
Shout out.
Shout out Liam.
Shout out Liam.
For putting up a high standard.
Really a high standard.
High bar.
I'm glad that high bar existed.
I think it elevated a lot ofpeople who submitted to
colleges.
Oh, absolutely.
It's crazy how that works.
All these people are like...
There's this little matrix thatwe're all connected to, this
little hive mind, through otherpeople's work on YouTube.

(53:41):
And it's like its ownsubculture of, oh, I'm a
filmmaker.
It's like, I'm a person whoapplied to film schools, and I
know this one movie.
I know so many people that...
I mean, you've been, evenpeople who have come to school,
been like...
I've seen your application.
You did the Santa one.
You did the Santa one.
That was me.
That was him.
Yeah.
I shot it.
Thank you.
Thank you.

(54:01):
Ryan did shoot it.
Ryan did shoot it.
It was like, that's literally,we just made two of them and it
was like a really good, goodtime.
Good vibe.

Speaker 04 (54:07):
Now that's sick.
And you guys were at OCtogether.
You guys grew up in OC?

Speaker 05 (54:12):
Yeah.
We, our parents' houses arelike seven minutes away from
each other.
Five minutes if you're fastenough.
Yeah.
Super close.
So, and our parents arefriends.
Can I think they just playedbingo the other night.
Bingo the other

Speaker 04 (54:27):
night.
The American dream, dude.
Oh, yeah.
Living the dream.
Yeah.
Wait, so you, speaking of OC,like, you directed that OC
nomination.

Speaker 05 (54:35):
Oh, yeah.
It was supposed to be both ofus.
He didn't want to do it.
It's cool.
Yeah, yeah.
They asked me, because I, andhe has two, but since
graduating, I, for a while, Ialways taught post-sound over
camp.
And then there was a year and,like, a partial year where I
taught...
as a main instructor.
And I got asked again thisyear.

(54:56):
I still don't think I canbecause of work that might come
up, but I love film ed.
And so when they asked me to dothe nomination video, I was
like, well, like...
I got to do this once, youknow, because there's kind of
this there's this big award atOCFF, the Orange County Film
Festival that you get, which iscalled Filmmaker of the Year,

(55:17):
which like the order of this isthe craziest order of events.
But it went the year before mewas Zaid, who is like one of our
best friends, shoots all of ourfilms like Zaid.
And then the next year, like Iwon.
And then the year after me,Alex Guo won.
And then the year after me,Daisy won.
And so and then after that thisgirl named Hunaina won and it's

(55:39):
like all in Hunaina is atChapman now legend cannot wait
to see what she's making likegreat writer director also
probably the best sound editor,like, mixer I've ever met.
She's so awesome.
And it's just like this thingthat happens, and every year
after you win, it kind of becamea thing like, hey, you're going

(56:01):
to probably direct it.
And so I'm like, the torch ishanded to me.
And I'm like, well, Zay didn'tdo it the past year, so I'm
still going to bring him onbecause he's a DP.
So I'm like, you want to shootthis thing?
And he's like, let's do it.
So we made it.
That was...
to this day, one of thecraziest experiences of my life.
And I'm so...
I think it taught me so muchabout directing on a bigger

(56:21):
scale.
It, like...
I feel like that is a way toeasily know, like, to crush you.
If, like...
It'll tell you if you want tobe a director or not, something
like that.
I mean, our crew had 55 to 60people.
It was, like, a hugeproduction.
Like...
So many moving parts.

(56:43):
It's 30 something minutes long.
Tons of, I mean, like 20, 30extras.
I mean, it's huge.
It was such a massive shoot.
And our shooting days, I mean,we had like 30 shots to do a
day.
Crazy.
With that big of a crew, it'scrazy.
And so...
It's a very easy way, I think,to get discouraged if, you know,

(57:07):
something like that takes youdown.
And that did nothing exceptbring me so much confidence that
I want to keep doing this.
I loved making it.
It was like, it made me realizeI don't want to do another NOM
video because, you know, they'rejust so big, but they're so
cool.
Very specific too.
And it's so specific, but it'sso rewarding when you go and you
show this nomination video tothese kids.

(57:29):
Because the thing is, you haveto keep in mind, you're doing
this for these students.
and I was in their positionsonce and I know what it's like
to see your name pop up on thisvideo and you don't know when
it's gonna come because it'swoven into this story and then
it goes oh my gosh it's time fornominations for best
independent short or somethingand you look and then your name

(57:49):
comes up and you go crazy andwhen I just remembered that
feeling and I was like I need tobring this feeling to these
kids because like I know whatit's like.
And when, when that thingplayed in the theater and you
just hear these groups of peopleerupting with joy, you're just
like, yes, like it's so worthit.

(58:09):
And it was so fun to make.
And it's, it was, you know,Zach wasn't necessarily there on
set and stuff, but like he wasthere in the background, like
ideas and like he edited it.
He was, uh, you know, he wasthere the whole process.
So like, you know, it's just anature of, I was willing to like
pull my hair out and have acrazy work life balance where
actually There was no balance.

(58:30):
It was work and no life,actually.
So that was a really, reallycrazy experience.
It was fun, though.

Speaker 04 (58:38):
No, I saw that video and I couldn't believe it.
I was like, it's a one-er goingup a hill with all these
historical pieces.
Oh,

Speaker 05 (58:43):
yeah.
I mean, it has like...
three, four different genres.
It's a Western at certainpoints.
It's a Steven Spielberg movieat some points.
It's a 1920s, like, greatGatsby era at some points.
It's a time travel movie.
It's all this stuff thatsomehow, like, comes together.

(59:04):
I'm really, like, I'm reallyproud of it.
Also, it was a great experienceworking with child actors
because they were, I think atthe time, 11 and 13 or something
like that.
Really helpful to learn that.
There were so many, I feel likethere's every project you do
you know you take something outof it and it's like you know we
have all our shorts that we'vedone and that one specifically

(59:25):
back in I guess I was mysophomore year it taught me how
to work with a big crew taughtme like mass communication to
different departments And thentaught me how to work with child
actors, taught me how to workwith a steady cam, taught me how
to work with extras, like allthese things that taught me how
to work with a productiondesigner, all costumes, all this

(59:46):
stuff.
And every project should have athing that you're like, this is
what I'm taking away from it.
Like barbershop, when we didthat, I think it was the
accumulation of, it was previsand then also the- Color.
And then also the color as inlike- Color palette.
Color palette, productiondesign, just, you know.
Yeah.
So yeah, that was a good time.

Speaker 04 (01:00:07):
That was so sick.
And talk about how did you guysget into your different fields
of post-production?
Because you do color grading,you do sound.
How did you guys find thatpassion for those?
They

Speaker 03 (01:00:19):
need to make money.
Yeah, they need to make money,right?
I think...
It was easy to start editing atfirst in high school and
whatnot.
That was an easy way to getgigs.
And then going to the moneything, actually, I had seen on a
budget sheet of who's gettingpaid for what.
And at the time, I didn'trealize color was a separate
thing.
And I saw the editing feed.

(01:00:41):
And then I saw this crazy colorfeed.
And I was like...
who, what, I can do that.
And I was like, that's stupid.
Why are you getting paid morethan me?
And I like the color, because Iwould color in Premiere.
And I was like, that's myfavorite part anyways.
So I was like, I'm going to tryto figure this thing out,
because DaVinci's free, mostaccessible program for a lot of
people to learn, right?
So I download it, and the firstthing I really colored was the

(01:01:03):
Domination video.
That was the first thing I did.
And I did it, and I thought itcame out pretty good, especially
for my first time.
And I just did it on my laptop,and I reposted my story And my
good friend Avery Niles, who's acrazy color grade artist, and
he came to USC, he justgraduated.
He swipes up, he's like, didyou just do that on your

(01:01:25):
computer?
And I was like, yeah.
He's like, oh man, you're good.
And we need to get you a wheel.
And that was like a wheelsystem.
He's like, we're going to getyou set up.
And he helped me out.
He let me borrow this wheelthing for a while.
He taught me everything that Iwould know.
And like, I just started lovingcolor because one thing that's
cool about post-production isthat you get to be on a lot of
more projects in a span of time.

(01:01:47):
And it's not that like, I don'tknow, like time consuming in
terms of just like being on setis a lot, but like, I think
seeing that many projectsinforms your directing and your
style and whatnot.
And I think that's been likethe most helpful thing, but
like, again, also it pays mybills and it's fun.
And I've been able to,partnered with a ton of DPs here
and it's really cool.

Speaker 05 (01:02:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 03 (01:02:07):
And

Speaker 05 (01:02:08):
for me, sound started in high school actually
because of Zach.
So like I said, one of the, Istarted out as a sound designer.
He was the first sounddesigner.
And it's cause he did, um, hemade this film in like sophomore
year and I watched it and I'mlike, this thing sounds epic.
Like it sounded like, like ithad all these cool sound effects
and whooshes and booms.
And sound design at that pointwas just like putting a lot of

(01:02:29):
sound.
Yeah.
And then our, our teacher forour film program, Alex Graham,
legend is the intro to soundprofessor at Chapman and so he
sees and he's like sound designhe's like by the way I don't
know if you guys know this Iteach sound at Chapman and he's
like I'm also like I do soundand like that's what I've done
my whole life and I make musicand all the stuff it's like

(01:02:50):
that's cool I'm like can youteach me and so then he like
taught me and mentored methrough that and every from then
on it's every film I did it'slike I spent you know I could
edit a film for an hour and becool I'd picture lock it but
sound two days like minimum justlike grinding I'm like this is
gonna sound perfect and it madeall the difference.
I think, like, Everything wehave done has felt so much more

(01:03:12):
professional, not for any otherreason except for the fact that
it sounds good.
100%.
The sound is the biggestdifference.
It's such a big difference.
I mean, it's everything.
You can say that all the timeand be like, oh, well, there's
some arguments where it's likemovies are 50-50.
It's not.
Sound is more.
It really is.

(01:03:33):
And you can argue that all day,but I really think it's like
60-40, maybe even 70-30 onthe...
I mean, there's so many...
Pony Smasher on YouTube is likethe guy who made Shazam, the
director.
Lights Out?
Yeah, yeah.
And so he did a video about itwhere he showed Shazam at like
240p with perfect audio and then4K with bit-crushed bad audio.

(01:03:57):
Right.
And...
You don't want to watch, you'drather watch the bad quality
video one because just mentallythat's what happens.
And after I saw that, I'm like,okay, I'm going to lock in on
the sound stuff.
Did that all through highschool.
And then my senior year, thisis where things really start
getting trippy when you thinkabout it.
I think I was still 17, but Ilied.
I said I was 18 because Igot...
my word got around about mysound through like the Orange,

(01:04:21):
we got on the Orange Countyregister for our films and
someone like knew I did soundand was like, hey, do you want
to do some sound design for ZachKing?
And I was like, yeah, sure.
So then I ended up doing 18, 20videos for Zach King, just
doing sound design.
Yeah, for King Studios.
I was like 17, told him I was18, something like that.

(01:04:42):
And so did that, did all theirlike Dude Perfect collabs, did
their Daniel Mack collabs didall these like big collab videos
sky brown all these little youcould go back there's so many of
these videos i did for them ican't even like remember them
all um There was a Bitcoin one,Doge to the Moon.
I did sound for so many of hisvideos and did that.

(01:05:05):
That was my first ever job.
I was 17, was film.
I've only ever worked in film.
And so then from there, thatgot me a job kind of in sports
production.
And I started doing sports.
I was like an A2 sometimes andlike an editor.
Then went to college and keptdoing sound.
I've been a mixer, so I'm a QSTat the film school, a qualified

(01:05:26):
sound technician.
I run ADR.
I'm a student mixer.
And I've kept doing that andthen do freelance sound, do
music videos.

Speaker 03 (01:05:33):
And I think what's nice is because, I mean, going
back to color, once wediscovered that color grading
was a thing, because we didn'trealize it was a thing, we look
back at our old projects, we'relike, oh.
There's like a, wow, that's ahuge difference.
And I think what's nice is thatbecause we each...
mean in the post-productionprocess like things go by really
quickly in terms of like youhave to wait usually for like

(01:05:55):
your sound designer your colorwe are the people that do it and
it's also really cost effectivetoo like we don't have to like
we are the package like we willdo it because we can do it at a
high enough level where it'slike saving thousands thousands
of dollars and also just timelike we'll just do it and i
think it's just uh i don't knowit just makes us be able to get
more things done more effectiveand I don't know.

(01:06:17):
Better stuff.

Speaker 05 (01:06:19):
We know that there are obviously people who are far
better at these things than us.
We do it because we do it at alevel that, for us, it's good.
I think it's great, actually.
I think our work in that regardis great.
There are people who canperfect it.
We're not perfectionists.
We have never beenperfectionists.

(01:06:40):
It's not something that Istrive to be.
It's like, if it...
If people wouldn't notice, andit does the job, and it's up to
our standard, which is a highstandard, then there's such
thing as good enough, move on.

Speaker 03 (01:06:56):
Because people are not going to notice.
And I think with our side jobs,though, that is not what we
ultimately want to do.
I remember I was sitting downat Ryan's house, and I was like,
Ryan, I just don't want to keepcoloring.
I was like, we want to direct.
And Ryan's like, no, we got it.
And then I

Speaker 05 (01:07:12):
turn around from my hunchback of 18 hours of Pro
Tools, and I'm like, I agree

Speaker 03 (01:07:16):
man yeah and I think and what's cool with the
Doritos thing it really openedit up where like we were
definitely going to keepprobably doing these little gigs
but hopefully like less andless to the point where we're
just fully directing and I thinkit's nice because now we have
this knowledge and whatnot whenwe start making features and
whatnot that we get to work witha team and like we have that
knowledge now to communicatewhat we want

Speaker 04 (01:07:35):
totally no that's I think every director should have
some technical skills like topay the bills

Speaker 05 (01:07:40):
side job you know it's like so I worked at Trader
Joe's yeah like any I think alsowhen you're going through a
film school it's easy to getcaught up in learning creative
skills, I really have a hardtime with thinking that you can
learn directing through acurriculum.

(01:08:01):
I don't think that's possible.
I really don't.
And same with writing.
You can learn the rules ofwriting and follow them until
you're good enough to break themand make the changes.
But I realized as soon as I gothere, I'm like, you know, All
of the films we have made at USCare not USC-affiliated
projects.
We direct outside of school sowe can own our films.

(01:08:24):
We still own our IP, but we ownour actual physical film.
And it's not affiliated.
And I think it's just really...
Freedom, a lot of freedom.
Yeah, there's just a ton offreedom in that, and it's super
helpful.

Speaker 04 (01:08:41):
No, definitely.
And you guys say it's a goodside gig to pay the bills.
Can you guys reveal somenumbers relating to that?

Speaker 05 (01:08:48):
Yeah, I mean, it super varies, but the hard part
is that there's some monthswhere where it's like, I just
did four music videos, or threemusic videos plus a short film.
Short films pay the leastbecause they're all independent.

(01:09:10):
No budget.
No budget, and they're justbeing like this.
Commercials, love it.
I love when a producer comes tome and is like, yo, I have a
commercial.
Done.
I have a couple of producerswho I'm their second, probably
first or second choice, probablysecond.
There's always someone...
you know, better when it comesto sound.
And so like, um, they come tome and they're like, yo, like we

(01:09:34):
have this project and it'sgotten to the point where
they're like, there's no morenegotiation.
It's just like, Hey, here's aproject.
It's like a 32nd to a minuteshort.
It's like 750 bucks.
Like go and do it.
And you know, that's, that's,You know, when you put it into
perspective, I know plenty ofpeople who do production sound
or like DPS and like their dayrates are in the thousands, you

(01:09:55):
know, and so that 750 is kind ofup to me how I spend that time,
you know, and allocate it.
which is something I do likeabout posts.
So say they're like, here's 750bucks.
Delivery is in like three days,right?
And expecting notes.
So you want to give them like aday to give notes.
So you do it in like two daysand you do some more notes.

(01:10:17):
I mean, 750, you can make yourown hourly pay out of that.
So say I have three days to doit.
I take $750.
Let's say each day I just breakit into like, oh, 250 and I
want to work five hours eachday.
I just gave myself a $50, likea $50 hourly pay and that's
something you can do foryourself unless there's a time

(01:10:40):
when it's like you get twoproducers who just reach out to
you he's like I have one who'slike oh $750 for this project
$600 for this and you're likethey're due on the same day and
they're two days from now soyou're like shit now I need to
do $1,300 worth of work in twodays but also doing notes it's
like I'm about to work one 16hour day or something on this

(01:11:02):
but the hourly pay is can belike almost 100 now you know
what i mean and so when you putit in the numbers like that but
guess what those could be youronly two projects that month or
that's what makes it hard soit's really the numbers sound
big and that's the big thingit's like the numbers sound big
because they are like at least ithink sometimes on certain
projects and the numbers get waybigger for when you're way more

(01:11:23):
talented um but

Speaker 03 (01:11:26):
Um, the project can take longer.
I think, I mean, this is likevery similar, same thing with
the color, like rates andwhatnot, how you negotiate it
down.
But it can be the oppositewhere it's like, Oh my God,
you're getting paid seven 50 forcolor.
That's crazy.
But then the amount of notesthat you get and some of the
amount of passes and hours, likeit almost ends up being like
below minimum wage.
Right.
And then like it's cheaper andcheaper and cheaper.

(01:11:47):
And that's just kind of thename of the game, right?
And I think it's like sometimesyou can make like $75 an hour.
It's like, that's crazy.
You're $100 an hour becausethat's the nature of the
project.
Or other times you're makinglike $10 an hour.
It just really depends.
For every project

Speaker 05 (01:12:02):
where you have a producer or director that goes,
I love it.
Great.
No notes.
I'll take it and run.
And it's like, well, you justpaid me a crazy amount.
I only worked three hours onthat.
That's crazy money.
For every one of those, youhave one where it's like, let's
set up eight meetings in personand four passes in those and
that's why also it's importantwhat I've been doing is you know

(01:12:24):
you establish that boundary upfront whether it's in the form
of a contract or just a verbalagreement like hey this is my
rate you know that's why I likeworking with the same producers
over and over again that trustyou and your work and then you
just know that they're not gonnalike lowball you when you have

(01:12:44):
that communication it'sliterally a producer sends you a
text and Got a job.
Need it tomorrow.
Here's, you know, 500 bucks.
And it's just, there's no morecommunication.
They know your style.
They just know you need to getin there, get the job done, send
it back to them.
I mean, one of the awesomeexamples, I think for this

(01:13:06):
project, and I still take likesome fun projects just because I
do still love sound even, youknow, like I did some sound for
a Gracie Abrams music video.
And that was really excitingbecause I'm like, Gracie Abrams,
cool artist.
And the friend of mine shot,his name's Nima Sadehi really
cool DP.
He was like, Ryan.
we need sound on this thing andwe're delivering at 5 and I'm

(01:13:28):
like that day I had woken uplate and I was like oh yeah what
time is that I'm like it's like2.30 I'm like delivery's at 5
and he's like yeah bro just likewhatever you can and it's like
a 30 second sequence with crowdsand people walking in a car
like all this stuff and thenthat's when you're just like
well this is like kind of a timeto flex my skill and hopefully

(01:13:50):
if I get more work down the lineand really proud of that work
go watch the I Love you i'msorry grace abrams music good
plug good plug yeah some of mywork and some of my best work

Speaker 01 (01:14:02):
uh yeah that was a fun one how do you guys go about
like taking notes from theseproducers and does that inform
your creative process at alllike does that inform like new
ideas like oh wait a second thisis actually something i never
thought about this note and imaybe adding that could elevate
the work the color or the soundi mean i think it's just

Speaker 03 (01:14:18):
like at the end of the day like you know we are
creative but at the same timelike these aren't our projects
right so it's like we're justgoing to kind of listen know
what they want so it's like youknow it's like if they want
something to sound a certain wayor be colored a certain way
like we'll give our suggestionsand like we'll give our creative
input because that's like whythey hired us and like for
yourself okay but no but it'slike you know at the end of the

(01:14:40):
day like this is their projectthis is their work this is the
director right we're gonna giveour influence and our and what
we can do but it's like andwe'll try to like influence the
best thing possible but at theend of the day like We're not
the directors.
Unless

Speaker 05 (01:14:53):
those notes are dumb as shit, okay?
There are some notes that youget that are like, you just
look, oh, there was some great,there was a note I got once, and
it was about, oh, oh, it waslike, oh, this is what, it was
like, someone was smoking acigarette, I think, and what I,
one of the hardest sounds to dois like, you know when you

(01:15:13):
inhale a cigarette, there'slike, there's a, the fizzle,
okay.

Unknown (01:15:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 05 (01:15:19):
Go to someone in real life who's smoking a
cigarette.
You will not hear that sound.
It is a completely manufacturedand fake sound.
Unless it's like a superclose-up.
But I'm talking people who areon a medium or a wide and they
want this crisp sound.
And I just hate cigarettes.
I really struggle with thesound of cigarettes.
And this director goes, can youmake the sound of the cigarette
more sensual?

(01:15:39):
And I'm like, what do you mean?
I'm already in pain.
Little things like that aresilly.
But of course, then you getreally good notes where you're
like, oh, I didn't even think ofthat.
Or, oh, wow, that's a reallygood vision.
And sometimes it's as simpleas, can you turn that down?

(01:15:59):
And it's like, yeah, I can dothat.
It's honestly, when people'snotes get too creative, they
become, not too creative, butlike...
yeah they're like they thinkthey're being specific but it
ends up being like the mostvague thing you could ever do
you know it's like it's likedirecting it's like be more

(01:16:20):
happy yeah it's like it's likeconveying and I imagine someone
like has the idea of like ohthis is like I'm thinking about
love

Speaker 03 (01:16:26):
I want the sound to be more beautiful yeah like
they're thinking about love

Speaker 05 (01:16:28):
and beauty and they're like you know do it more
like this painting and theyshow like an abstract photo you
know like they show you like anink block test and you're like
what do you mean that's yournote it's just like a Rorschach
test like that's crazy

Speaker 03 (01:16:43):
so those are always and also when people are asking
for the moon and it's likeespecially with the color it's
like make my like Sony footagelook like beautifully lit airy
raw like it's like I can't dothat or

Speaker 05 (01:16:57):
they didn't do they like skimped out on production

Speaker 03 (01:17:00):
sound

Speaker 05 (01:17:01):
and it

Speaker 03 (01:17:01):
sounds raw we're trying our best we'll do
everything in our power to makeit look and sound as good as
possible but like There'slimitations and I think like,
you know, I think people thinkthat color and sound will fix...
I think that is a big thing.
It's like when people come into sound and color so that that
can fix their film.
Yeah.
That thing should have beenfixed in the script.

(01:17:22):
The script, it should alreadybe good.
We're just the cherry on top.
It should already be good.
So that's another thing.

Speaker 05 (01:17:26):
Yeah, fix it in the script.
Fix it in the script.
That's the place, man.
It's just on paper.

Speaker 04 (01:17:32):
Right.
There's this one project withUSC Athletics that...
What was it?
Arrival of the Trojans?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
New color, though.
I didn't do the color, yeah.
I remember my parents...
sent me this like article inChinese and it was like about
Flint's journey and how he madethe thing and at the end it was
talking about his friend Zachdid the color grading it was all
in Chinese I was like yo I knowthese people like that's crazy

(01:17:54):
that would be cool to see yeahand have you guys done like
collaborations with USCAthletics on

Speaker 03 (01:17:58):
other stuff no that was the I mean that was the
first time I mean we've donetechnically they

Speaker 05 (01:18:03):
reposted Barbershop they did repost

Speaker 03 (01:18:05):
that yeah not a sport thing but like um we
worked with flint before like wedid a coachella video before
because i met him freshman yearand i remember like i had seen i
had stalked his instagram ithought he did some cool stuff
so i came i was like hey man i'mzach he's like what i'm flint
he's the best guy in the worldnow he's like the coolest dude
so like when you look at himlike he does not look like a guy

(01:18:27):
who would be doing like thetype of work that he does like
he just looks like a surfer butinstead he's like creating the
craziest like content in theworld but yeah the color on the
thing was fun because i thinkwhat's cool it's like For him,
most things I'm coloring arelive action, but this is totally
animated, right?
All I'm working with in thevisual effects, color, sphere,

(01:18:48):
so that's really...
fun challenge and interestingand like we get to really play
with colors and it's super supersuper cool so i was blessed
that he threw me on the projectand very proud of how it came
out it looked good on thejumbotron so

Speaker 04 (01:19:00):
and you guys i remember you guys showed the
barber shop to pete carrollright yes so cool that was so so
random yeah so cool like wouldyou guys want to do more things
relating to sports in the futureyou think actually no and

Speaker 05 (01:19:13):
my reasoning is i worked in sports well we both so
i worked yeah right out of highschool i was actually a spring
admit here, so I was atcommunity college for a
semester, and I worked Fridaythrough Sunday doing sports
broadcasting for Bally Sports,and then that ended up becoming
Spectrum, Fox Sports, that wholerealm of things.

(01:19:37):
I've just worked so much insports.
I could see us doing like acreative thing in sports world,
but like, definitely notleaning.
I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm very wearyof it because like I've already
done so much and then I had himjoin me and like he did work
with sports as well.
And I kind of feel like I'vebeen there.

Speaker 03 (01:19:56):
Uh, it's cool.
Yeah.
I think what, you know,hopefully we'll be doing more
directing things, but if we stayin the sound and color sphere,
give us the sports stuff to payour bills.
So we'll take that.
Yeah.
Oh

Speaker 04 (01:20:06):
yeah.
And what are some of the futurestuff you're hoping to make?
Like, is there any specificgenre or anything?
Comedy.

Speaker 03 (01:20:12):
I mean, I think like, you know, dark comedy,
dark comedy, raunchy comedy, funcomedy, like all comedy.
Cause I think there's such avoid right now in the theaters.
Uh, you know, the Jed Apatow,Adam McKay, Ben Stiller era of
like those types of films arelike not in theaters.
And we want to bring that back.
Cause I think people need tolaugh.
And I think that's what we wantto do so hopefully that is like

(01:20:32):
the type of feature films thatwe're going to be making we've
been writing some and get ouryou know get in front of some
studio execs and hopefully startpitching and we'll see what
happens but yeah that is thethat is the next step making
comedy films and you know welike to explore other genres but
we know what our niche is rightnow and like if that's our you
know way to get in our ticketwe're going to take it

Speaker 04 (01:20:53):
yeah That's super awesome.
I'm so excited to see the stuffyou guys do next.
Thanks.

Speaker 05 (01:21:00):
We're stoked as well.
Even doing more commercialwork.
At the end of the day, whenyou're making a feature, the
average length of time you spendmaking a feature is roughly
three to four years or somethinglike that.
That's the average lifespan ofmaking something.
In three to four years, ifyou're hired as a director on
something, you can maybe sustainyourself with whatever contract

(01:21:24):
you get paid.
or maybe if it's fullyindependent, you're making
nothing.
We want to be able to sustainourselves and commercial work
would do that while we also lovecommercials.
Growing up, watching the bestcommercials ever are so much
inspiration for what I do today.
Continue doing morecommercials.

(01:21:45):
I think soon we're maybe goingto do another short.
It really depends.
But we're writing features.
Hopefully going to pitch somefeatures to some people that
want to fund it.
And we'll

Speaker 03 (01:21:57):
see once we head out of college.
I think a main thing that we'vetalked about is that there's
been this weird shift in theindustry where it's like, you
can't make your feature untilyou're like 35, 40 years old.
And I don't know.
Why is that established?
Because the best director,Steven Spielberg and Martin
Scorsese, everyone, you look atwhen they made their first
feature, very young, superyoung, like younger than all of

(01:22:21):
us.
And I think it's like, why didthat go away?
It's like, I know the resourcesand whatnot might have not, are
more limited now and it'sharder to get your thing off the
ground, but you need topractice.
And we know that our firstfeature is not going to be
perfect, but we also know itwill be entertaining.
And I think you just need tomake it and then get to the next
one, right?
It's practice, repetition.
So I think there is no reasonwhy, just because that we're

(01:22:42):
young, we can't make things thatare just as entertaining, just
as marketable and just as likefun.
So we believe that we have theability to make a feature and
why not?

Speaker 04 (01:22:52):
That's sick.
No, I love that motto.
And I hope that it becomes thenew norm where people our age
are able to do these biggerthings that people expect people
that are 30 to do.

Speaker 03 (01:23:03):
And we proved that with the Doritos

Speaker 05 (01:23:04):
thing.
People didn't expect someoneour age would be doing something
at that level.
We would have been the youngestto win.
Yeah, we would have been theyoungest to ever win that
contest.
And it's like, we're doingthings that would be like, oh,
you're too young to do that.
If it's available, attack.
I don't know.
Yeah, exactly.
Like you said, it's not goingto be perfect.
I have no intention of my firstfeature being...

(01:23:27):
Oscar worthy.
Even close.
It should be something that'slike...
Show your voice.
Yeah, it just gives the idea ofwho you are.
And we've made 40, 50 shortfilms.
The equivalent of that formovies is before you make
anything that you would actuallyshow to someone, it would be
like you just have maybe one,two movies.

(01:23:47):
Just get it out of the waywith.

Speaker 03 (01:23:49):
And then Adweek posted, right when the Doritos
thing had launched on the SuperBowl, an article came out pretty
much saying that if our adwould have won for the Doritos
competition and aired, andAdweek's one of the highest
regarded ad, what's it called?
It's like the Hollywoodreporter of ads, that if our ad

(01:24:09):
would have won, our ad wouldhave been like the number one ad
out of all the commercials thataired, which is pretty crazy.
Like it's pretty crediblesource and also just like a big
honor.
And I, you know, it would havebeen fun to see that actually
play out, but it's pretty coolthat they predicted that.
And I think that also, I mean,that means that we were
competing against like thebiggest ad agencies in the world
and the biggest like stars.

(01:24:29):
And like, it's just us withlike our friends and a couple of
like a couple of dreams andlike a little bit of cash and we
made something cool.
So I think it just gave us avalidation, like, Age doesn't
matter.
We can

Speaker 01 (01:24:43):
make it.
Going off of that, what wouldbe some advice you would give
maybe your high school self,high school senior yourself, or
some of our listeners who areconsidering film school or
pursuing a career in film?
Would you say just to go aheadand do it?
What are some best ways to

Speaker 05 (01:24:59):
learn?
Dude, I wish I...
I mean, all I...
would ever say is like I meanyou know because I teach I teach
over summers or have in thepast for like film ed and stuff
and everything I always like thething I would always say to
people is just like just keepmaking stuff like if you just
keep making stuff it doesn'tlike just write it's daunting to
look at like a blank page andjust write something but at the

(01:25:23):
end of the day if you just writeit make it it's just great
practice put a camera in yourhand and just go and like shoot
it right I mean it's soimportant I I shot everything we
did in high school like havingthe camera in my hand and that
just teaches you so much likefeeling and like oh editing you
have to like actually keepmaking stuff and everyone says

(01:25:45):
that but not even at a levelthat's like oh you know like
just write no like start tofinish not just like making it
as in like oh come up with anidea an idea does not mean
anything.
Anyone can be like, I'm goingto make a film about someone who
like is a ninja and like, youknow, that's it.
You know, I mean, you could,anyone can come up with like

(01:26:07):
that.
some premise but to say like tomake it a story where it's like
a ninja with like a really sadbackstory and then like a plot
twist you know and just likegoing beginning to end and
you're like okay well I need toget a costume and I need to get
an actor and I need to go shootand then okay edit and then do
sound and then and then and thenshow people and then get notes

(01:26:29):
and then hear back and then belike okay well on to the next
like not I'm gonna go back andreshoot some stuff just on to
the next because I and also Ithink there is a good like find
a natural progression don'tforce yourself to like I feel
like, especially now, I am readyfor features in a way that a

(01:26:50):
year ago, I wasn't.
And I know that.
I know I couldn't have sit downa year ago and written a
feature like we have now.
It is a very natural, mental,physical progression that
happens.
And so in high school, Iremember we made a two-minute
short film together, and thenanother two-minute, another
two-minute, and a three-minuteshort.
And then our teacher was like,oh, maybe you should make a

(01:27:12):
five-minute short.
We're like, no.
We're like, no.
Because we're like, we need tomake a 12-minute, 10-minute
short film with a big story andan arc.
And our teacher's like, pleasedon't.
Like, please don't.
And we were like, we will.
And he was like, it's not goingto, like, just keep building.
You're going to build naturallyto, like, your ideas will get
better and bigger naturally thatit will inform the length.

(01:27:36):
Don't, like, put the size or,like...
like grandiose of your ideadon't put that first it's like
your story will just build tothat and then we made in our
like junior year of high schoolwe did not listen to a 12 minute
short film the worst thingwe've ever made it's undoubtedly
the worst thing we've ever madeit's really bad and I look and

(01:28:00):
no one will ever see it I lookback on it I don't think it's as
bad as he hates it I think it'slike tolerable the opening
scene is good but it's goodbecause it is word for word a
copy of the opening seen inanother film it's
recontextualized so it's likethe only good part is something
completely stolen and that thatis the only good part and so

(01:28:21):
it's just we so forced it and iremember two months of our life
in high school which two monthsin high school is an eternity
like it is forever and we spenttwo months on this thing so
proud of it we've been hyping itup to our teacher to our class
and we're gonna screen it todayand everyone's like oh my
Because we've made good stufftill then.
So I was like, okay, Ryan andZach are going to do something.

(01:28:43):
We show this movie.
Two laughs throughout the wholething.
The ending happens.
No pity claps.
And the teacher goes, yeah.
I told you so.
And he was like, on to thenext, pretty much.
He was like, you know, like youguys tried with this, but you
should have just stuck.
And he was really blunt aboutit.
He's like, it's not great.

(01:29:04):
You should just, it was noteven good.
You should just move on andmake a new project, like scrap
it.
I think film is

Speaker 03 (01:29:11):
not for the like, you know, weary at heart.
Like it's hard.
It's really hard.
You're going to, I mean, we'vefaced so much rejection.
and failure and you just haveto keep going and you have to
just say, I'm going to make mything.
I'm just going to make it.
And I think because Ryan and Iwere like, all right, no matter
what, like we want to get to ourend goal.
Like, you know, we lost Doritosand we just wrote a feature.

(01:29:32):
Like we just kind of keepgoing.
And I think maybe my advice topeople out there is that like, I
think there's been this like,you know, before in the past,
like you don't need film school.
Film school is like, you don'tneed, I believe that you do need
film school in the terms oflike, it forces you to make
things and it forces you to meeta lot of people who also want
to make things.
Yes, the curriculum might notbe like, you can learn the same

(01:29:54):
thing on YouTube, like totallyagree with all of that.
But I think like being in thatyou know, the atmosphere of
competitiveness and peoplepushing each other, like you
can't replicate that and justlike going, I'm going to go like
shoot it.
Like you have, and there's alsogreat teachers here too and
mentors and stuff.
So I think like film school is,needed like i would suggest

(01:30:14):
like if you want to pursue filmand you have the opportunity and
the means to go go becauseyou're going to meet a lot of
like future collaborators likeour cohort we will work with
those people for the rest of ourlives and without film school
we'd have never met those peopleand i think like that is so
that's what that's what we camefor college for and we got it so

Speaker 04 (01:30:32):
Yeah, that's awesome, guys.
And we have a thing where we doon the podcast where we have
the previous guests leave thecurrent guests a question.
And this is your question.

Speaker 05 (01:30:44):
What a daisy ass

Speaker 04 (01:30:47):
question.
Where do you go to findsolitude?
like where do you when you feellike you need a crash out oh
crash

Speaker 03 (01:30:55):
interesting um i love i feel like the beach
resets me i i think honest justthe sound of the waves is just
like my like way of like i haveadhd so my brain just is always
just moving and for some reasonthat is like my space where i
like Everything is just calm fora second because the moment I

(01:31:16):
leave, then I'm going, I lovethe way my brain works, but it's
just like, I think the waterand the ocean and everything,
it's just so calm.
That is my space.
And you need those bricks,right?
Cause like you, you're going tooverheat.
Um, but yeah, that's my space.
Where do you go?
Yeah.
I mean, I don't, I,

Speaker 05 (01:31:33):
location doesn't matter really.
I mean, I think, what do youdo?
I guess kind of if I crash out,I'll like go play my drums or
something.
That's something I'll do.
I'll go bang on some drums,music, that sort of thing.
But, I feel like what it reallyis, is I pace.
If I need to think in any way,I just pace.
I'll be in my room, I'll pace.
Whenever we're coming up withideas, I pace.
And yeah, if I need to crashout, I just kind of complain to

(01:31:57):
my friends.
And I just whine.
And I think it's good.
I think it's really healthy tojust be like...
really like whiny about certainthings to like a select group
of people who are willing tojust like listen for a moment
like he's heard me just likebitch and moan about so many
things you know and so I thinkthat's valid and that's all it

(01:32:17):
is it can be anywhere but whatdo you so how about

Speaker 03 (01:32:21):
when like let's say after like a long shoot yeah
right like we know we're bothtired like we're cooked and
maybe even after like spend daysi think what do you do like
what is your day to relax i

Speaker 05 (01:32:32):
internalize it and swallow it deep down and never
let it come out it's a terribleanswer

Speaker 01 (01:32:40):
i asked daisy this too so i'll throw this at you
guys too um what would be onepiece of art it could be a film
it could be a painting it couldbe a music that you would bring
to a deserted island if you'restuck there

Speaker 05 (01:32:53):
oh i know what you would bring no you don't you're
gonna think i'm gonna say amovie but i'm gonna say that
movie

Speaker 03 (01:32:58):
um i'd bring a guitar

Speaker 05 (01:33:03):
okay yeah i hate that answer it's cool

Speaker 03 (01:33:05):
you're gonna bring hot rod but then you don't have
anywhere to play it and thenyou're screwed you're like you
bring your movie but you forgotthe tv and everything you're
like damn yeah Oh, man.
Yeah, I mean, I have someabstract painting.
I'd bring the Mona Lisa.
I'd

Speaker 05 (01:33:19):
bring the Wernicke in.
No.
I don't know.
Probably, yeah, probably HotRod.
It's just like...
I knew it.
It's just like...
It's kind of just like the bestmovie of all time.
Have you guys ever seen it?
I

Speaker 03 (01:33:31):
haven't.
I don't think so.
Oh, my gosh.
Please enlighten yourselves.
Am I missing out?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's our style of filming.
It's...
Yeah, gotcha.
That movie...
That movie is peak.
So I'm bringing a guitar andhe's bringing hot rod.
That's what we'll bring.
Yeah.

Speaker 01 (01:33:45):
Watching it while playing.

Speaker 03 (01:33:46):
Oh

Speaker 04 (01:33:46):
yeah.
You know what?
I actually did have one extraquestion.

Speaker 03 (01:33:50):
Please.
No, no more, no more questions.

Speaker 04 (01:33:53):
When you show your films and you make your films in
the future, what is the thingsyou want your audience to leave
the theater?
You know, thinking about orwhat do you want them to take
away from

Speaker 03 (01:34:01):
you i mean that's our favorite part i mean the
only reason we make movies isbecause we like the people's
reaction we like i mean i thinkthere's this weird thing in film
school it's like make moviesfor yourself and like art is for
you but like i believe and weboth believe that film is a
service like we're doingsomething for other people and i
think that allows our films tobe better because we want to
make it enjoyable for everyonebut we'd love to make people

(01:34:23):
laugh and i think like also likewe like to move people in
different ways as well but ithink laughter is like the best
feeling in the world yeah i meanwe just want people to walk
away like entertained

Speaker 05 (01:34:31):
and that's it I mean like make their day better yeah
if you walk away with like anexperience where you either go
like oh like that was a goodtime or that made me feel funny
or like they genuinely like thatis it it's like it's not we
don't have a it's not deep likehonestly I we're not deep like

(01:34:54):
that and I don't think there's aneed I think that's good
because there are I would saymost people making movies do
have a, like, deeper sense of,like, I want someone to walk
away feeling, like, changed,altered, and that sort of thing.
I'm like, I don't need someoneto be altered by the end of my
movie.
I really don't.

(01:35:14):
I hope someone can walk awayand remember a couple funny
lines and, like...
Quote it to your friends.
Quote it a little bit or maybe,you know, even just walk away
going, like, that was aninteresting plot line.
Like, that was fun and, like,just a good...
entertaining time but i willargue that i think

Speaker 03 (01:35:29):
comedy films are important because i think like
you know the world is so dark soyou need but like it's true
like people need to laugh peopleneed to be able to relax and
like let go and like have a goodtime and we hope that we can
provide that provide a good timeyeah

Speaker 04 (01:35:43):
no that's so important and i love that like
we need more of that in theworld and i feel like film is
like an escape right it's likeoh yeah you want to be lost in a
world where you're filled withjoy yeah you know and lost in
the absurdity of everythingright so i love that's what you
guys do

Speaker 05 (01:35:59):
exactly and like you know there is a place for every
type of film to exist and ithink both of us, some of our
favorite movies are the completeopposite of what we want to
make.
Like on my top list of moviesis like hot.
Like if I go through like theletterbox, it's like hot rod.
Uh, my life is a zucchini,which is like this animated stop

(01:36:22):
motion thing about like aorphan.
Okay.
Sound of metal.
And then in the mood for love.
And it's like all of thosethings that create me, even
though, I don't want to makethose movies that someone much
more emotionally in tune withthemselves are going to make
those films.
OK, someone a lot more, youknow, better at that.

(01:36:43):
That's not going to be me.
And I love the people who makethose movies.
And that's just not what we're.
as of now maybe down the line Iwould love to make you know we
could branch out and do otherfilms I think you know we've
been told so many times likefind your niche find your thing
that you do and then you canalways break it later so many

(01:37:05):
comedy directors do that AdamMcKay kind of found himself
doing that Todd Phillips BenStiller even did that Severance
that's just every Jordan Peelelike all these comedy they'll
you get to the, yeah, Mike, ohmy God.
Great.
Yeah.
You know, you always comearound to this other, you always

(01:37:27):
will discover something in youthat, you know,

Speaker 04 (01:37:30):
will

Speaker 05 (01:37:30):
change down the line.
And I'm sure that'll happen.
Um, Coen brothers even kind ofdid that when they split off and
Macbeth now, and like, you

Speaker 03 (01:37:37):
know, all these, yeah.
And so for now we'll just makepeople laugh.
Yeah.
We just want to entertain.

Speaker 01 (01:37:41):
That's awesome.

Speaker 03 (01:37:42):
Great.

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These Super Bowl Doritos Commercial Directors are Changing the Future of Hollywood | Zach and Ryan

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}These Super Bowl Doritos Commercial Directors are Changing the Future of Hollywood | Zach and Ryan