Jen Hewett: Women of Color in Craft and Community

This week on First Coat we have Jen Hewett. Jen Hewett is a printmaker, surface designer, textile artist, and author based in the Hudson Valley. She recently came out with her second book This Long Thread: Women of Color on Craft, Community, and Connection. In this episode we talk about her new book, her experience as an artist and business owner, and what's inspiring her right now. 

Show Notes: https://distillcreative.com/blog/1/4/22/jen-hewett-on-women-of-color-in-craft

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Episode Transcript

Stephanie Eche (00:00):
Welcome to First Coat, where we explore public
art, how it's made and why itmatters. I'm your host Stephanie
Eche, an artist and artconsultant based in Brooklyn,
New York. I interview artists,cultural producers, designers
and funders on how art in publicspace happens, and how to create
more equitable and inclusiveprojects in public space. I also

(00:20):
share my tips on how to curateand commission art projects for
your business. How I run my artconsulting business, Distill
Creative, and how I'm developingmy own art practice. You can
listen to this episode whereveryou listen to podcasts, or watch
it on YouTube. If you like whatyou hear, please leave a review
and support this project onPatreon. I produce, edit and,

(00:41):
well, do everything myself soyour support keeps this project
going. If you're interested inmy art, consulting services or
artwork, check outdistillcreative.com. Thanks so
much for listening and I hopeyou enjoy this episode.
Before we get into this episode,I just want to say thank you so
much for listening to FirstCoat. It's been a hard few years

(01:03):
for everyone and I want to wishyou a Happy New Year and I hope
you've gotten some rest thesepast few weeks. I'm really
excited to keep sharing newepisodes of First Coat this year
and thank you again for forlistening. It really means a
lot. All right, here we go. Thisweek on First Coat we have Jen

(01:23):
Hewitt. Jen Hewitt is aprintmaker, surface designer,
textile artist and author basedin the Hudson Valley. Jen's work
combines her love of loudprints, 1970s, maximalism and
saturated colors with thetextures in light of the
landscapes that surround her. Inaddition to creating her own
products, Jen designs fabric forthe quilting and home sewing
market and home collections fornational retailers. She recently

(01:46):
came out with her second book,This Long Thread: Women of Color
on Craft Community andConnection. In this episode, we
talk about her new book, herexperience as an artist and
business owner, and what'sinspiring her right now. Here's
our conversation.
Thank you so much for being onFirst Coat. Can you tell us who
you are and what you do?

Jen Hewett (02:07):
Sure. I'm Jen Hewett. I'm a surface designer,
a printmaker, an author now, I'msometimes a teacher, and a
textile artist and I live in NewYork's Hudson Valley.

Stephanie Eche (02:21):
Yeah, you're in New York now.

Jen Hewett (02:24):
I am. I'm a transplant.

Stephanie Eche (02:26):
Welcome.

Jen Hewett (02:27):
Thank you.

Stephanie Eche (02:29):
I was looking you up on LinkedIn and I noticed
that we have one connection incommon and it's Miranda Tang
from National Apparel. So I usedto work in small batch clothing
production at Betabrand and so Iwould go to the sewing factories
in downtown San Francisco, andthat that's how I know Miranda.
But I was wondering how do youknow Miranda?

Jen Hewett (02:46):
Pretty much the same way you know Miranda. It's so
funny. I forget that I'm onLinkedIn, because I never go
there. I never check it. I justdon't need to anymore. But I
started out screen printing wayback in 2008. And I think around
2012/2013, I did a Kickstarterto expand the line of products I

(03:07):
was able to offer and expandalso the quantities. And so I
worked with Miranda, who wasgoing her factory was going to
sew all the bags that I wasmaking. But she had to cut the
fabric first and then I printedon it and then I brought it back
to the factory, and they sewedit and then I took it to a

(03:27):
leather worker to put theleather straps on and it was
quite a process. But Miranda wasfantastic and the quality of
work that her factory was doingwas really outstanding. I wonder
though, when I saw yourquestions ahead of time, I
wondered, are they even stillaround? Because they were in
super- like in this loft spacethat was probably really
valuable and super central. Soyeah, I don't know.

Stephanie Eche (03:51):
I also wonder, I was trying to research and
couldn't- It's the kind of thingwhere like, you just have to
know where to go and show up andcall them on the phone. I
remember working with the sewingfactories- you couldn't email
anyone. So it's not like I canemail them and ask like, "Are
you still around?" Or find themon Instagram. It's just not that
kind of world. I hope that theystill exist. There's a few

(04:11):
others that I worked with a lottoo and I knew some of them had
moved when I was still there.

Jen Hewett (04:16):
I think a lot of them moved to South San
Francisco because my zipperpeople who used to be in San
Francisco, suddenly had afactory in South San Francisco
across the street from my screenprinting supply store, which
also had moved from SanFrancisco to South San
Francisco. It's just the natureI think of real estate prices,
pre pandemic.

Stephanie Eche (04:38):
Right, right.
Maybe they'll all come back nowwho knows? So I was really
excited when I got your email.
Well, it was in your newsletterasking for people of color to
basically submit theirexperiences being in the craft
world. And I was wondering whatwas the most surprising response
that you got?

Jen Hewett (04:59):
I don't know if there was anything that was
super surprising, I think thesheer volume of similar
experiences was surprising tome. Because in some ways,
feeling isolated from, you know,like the community groups that
I'm in or the groups that I wasin that were doing the kind of
work I was doing, werepredominantly white, and I would

(05:22):
have these experiences andthink, is, is it just me? Is
this only happening to me? Isthis happening to everyone? And
folks would often say whitefolks would often say, I don't
see it. Probably they meantthis. And partly the survey, a
lot of the questions I askedwere questions that I asked
myself too, and so to hear overand over again, oh, I was

(05:45):
followed around a store. I,there were microaggressions, in
a group knitting group that Ijoined, people would make
offhand comments to me that wereracist, and then would double
down and say, that's not whatthey meant, like, oh, actually,
it wasn't just me. It'shappening across the community
across the craft world to peopleof color. And these are, we

(06:09):
share these very similarexperiences.

Stephanie Eche (06:11):
The other the example of not feeling welcome
in, like fiber stores reallyresonated with me, because I
feel like, that's something myhusband will point out when
we're in a new city, like, Oh,do you want to go to that yarn
shop, and I'm just like, firstof all, I can never afford
anything in there. And second ofall, it's usually, it's just
kind of, I always feel like I'm,like both. I'm not even that

(06:36):
young. I'm in my mid 30s. Soit's not even like, but at
first, I thought it was like anage thing. And then I was like,
No, it's just like, everyone inhere is always white. And it's
like a very overpowering like, Idon't know something about it.
But on the flip side, I learnedweaving at an art studio in
Washington, DC that waspredominantly of a community of

(06:56):
women of color, predominantlyblack woman. And that was such
an, like, overwhelminglypowerful experience for me and
pushing me further into craftand also into like, quitting my
day job and focusing on my ownbusiness. And all those things
happened, because I think I hadthe support of that specific
community that was verydifferent than the craft

(07:18):
communities I had come acrossonline. And then in commercial
spaces, I guess, or like even acraft fair, I think like Crafty
Bastards, I would go to and getreally excited. And then I just
would realize, like, everybodykind of looks the same in like,
being white, but also kind oflike style of clothing, or just
like being on trend in certainways. And I think over the years

(07:40):
craft kind of got this like,bad, bad rap maybe of being what
wealthy white woman do. But Ithink it also depends on just
where you are, and what's beingseen. Because I knew that there
were plenty of people of colordoing craft, not just like in my
cities that I was living in likeDC, San Francisco, New York, LA,
but also internationally, it'sjust like, who's being pushed

(08:02):
forward and who is beingpromoted and shared around on
the internet and stuff.

Jen Hewett (08:08):
Yeah, and I would go, I would do craft fairs and I
would be the only black personvending at these craft fairs
quite often. It changed over theyears. But for the first few
years of doing craft fairs, Iwas like, I stand out here, I am
the only one doing this work.
And there was a definiteaesthetic to a lot of the other
work. And a lot of the otherpeople, you know, there was

(08:29):
definitely a look, especially in2011 to 2014, when artisanal was
a big thing, like there wasthere was who was being promoted
as being artisanal, when inreality, you know, the people
who are who've been saying,making your food for how many
generations have beenimmigrants, the people sewing

(08:51):
clothing, not just in the US,but all over the world are
predominantly people of color.
And suddenly, because you'remanufacturing, like, you know,
you're an American, you're awhite woman, you're sewing your
own clothes, that that'sartisanal, whereas everything
else is just manufactured, whenin reality, there is very little

(09:15):
mechanization in production thatfor the most part, the things
that we consume to this day are,especially on a daily basis. So
clothing, food, there are stilla hand involved in it. And that
hand is often a hand belongingto a person of color.

Stephanie Eche (09:31):
Yeah, that brings in like, economy of scale
capitalism, like trade, and Ithink like imperialism and
colonialism also into all ofthat. So yeah, I'm gonna chew on
that for a little bit. You writein your introduction to your new

book, This Long Thread (09:49):
Woman of Color on Craft, Community and
Connection, about how your ownexperiences, both in person and
online inspired the survey andthe book, and you just share it
some more of those experience,but was there a particular
moment when you were like I haveto make this book happen?

Jen Hewett (10:05):
Yes, and 2019, some stuff erupted online around
first around a white knitter andthen around the larger knitting
community about about racism,about people of color, feeling
excluded, tokenized not seenwhen they were. And when they
were seeing they were beingtokenized. And there was this

(10:26):
huge internet pile on specificpeople, and then it spilled over
to specific companies. And, Iwrite this in the book that in
the very beginning, I noticedthat, you know, there were
really thoughtful criticismscoming from people of color,
sharing their experiences,talking about the ways that
they've been not seen or overlyseen in terms of profiling in

(10:48):
stores, etc. And I took those toheart. And then on the other
hand, there were white women whowere coming in and just like,
piling on for the sake of pilingon, like they were, they were
outraged that they learned aboutthis thing that was happening,
and they wanted to express theiroutrage. And I had this, you
know, this aha moment where Ithought, but it's not just this

(11:10):
one person. It's not just thisone company. And yes, these
people in these companies arepart of a larger community, a
larger industry, but alsoexamine what you're consuming,
examine what your own circleslook like, how diverse are they?
How inclusive, are they? And Ithought, but I'm looking at my

(11:31):
own circles. And I see thatthose are diverse and inclusive,
and how do I highlight thevoices of people of color who
are doing this work? How do Ihighlight the fact that the
industry isn't all about, youknow, white women of means
knitting or sewing or quilting,that there's this much richer

(11:53):
tapestry of folks who are doingthis work, who are left out of
the narrative, left out of thedominant narrative, even though
they're an important part of thenarrative. So, as I started
talking about that, as I startedreally thinking about it, I
realized that what I wanted todo was write a book that would
focus on people of color in theUS and Canada who are doing this

(12:19):
work. And not just, you know, Igot a review of my book on a
blog, and a lot of people werechiming in, like, oh, yes, I'm
so excited. The Gee's Benquilts, and the quilters of
Gee's Bend really changed myperspective, which is fantastic.
I'm glad to hear that. But itshouldn't take like a quilting
community that has museum showsand gallery representation for

(12:41):
you to appreciate the work ofpeople of color. And so what I
wanted to do was not focus onthe big names, the names that
we've all heard about, who get alot of increasingly more play in
the national narrative, anddeservedly so. Right? I wanted
to focus on people who are doingthis just every day as a hobby,

(13:02):
or who are trying to make it abusiness and who are grappling
with forces like racism andcapitalism and overwork. And how
do you grow business smartly,people with day jobs, who are
actually really serious artistson the side, like, these are the
people I wanted to talk about.
And it felt like the survey wasthe best way to get those folks.

(13:22):
And then I did interviews too.
But I really started out bythinking, okay, a survey, much
like the book, women in clothes,which is a book I adore, that
was that was a way to reach alot more people than I could
reach, you know, by emailingeach one of them directly. So in
2019, when all that stuffstarted swirling around, I

(13:45):
thought, okay, this is actually-people are ready to talk, people
haven't been asked, and nowthey're being asked, and now
they have a lot to say. So howcan I- How can I crystallize all
of this into a into a book?

Stephanie Eche (13:59):
It's funny that you bring up the Gee's Bend
quilts, because I feel like Iget certain references to my art
all the time and they're likethe same five references. And
it's like, I don't know, it'swith art history, in particular,
like trying to fit within thecanon, but also having this
whole other universe of artistswho you know of and then having

(14:20):
to like, educate people both onthat, but then also know of
everyone in the canon or likeeveryone who you're supposed to
learn about in art history, is,I think, like an extra burden of
people of color working in, incraft or the art world because
it's like you, you appreciatethe people who are known in this
world. But like, you also wantto continue to open up the

(14:42):
conversation about who can betalked about but there's still
that reality that certain peopleare only going to know certain
people and it's just really, Ithink, unfair to all the other
people working in, in the artworld. Like I had a conversation
actually, with someone about howthis is kind of a tangent but
basically like who's allowedwhose art is okay to be
destroyed? And like how? Like,we think like, oh, wouldn't it

(15:05):
be a shame if this famous pieceof art was destroyed? And my
response is like, well, isn't ita shame that all these other
pieces of art have beendestroyed and that we don't even
know about them. So I don'treally care if like, the Mona
Lisa is destroyed. And I'm notsaying that I think we should
destroy the Mona Lisa. But it'sjust we, the people in power
have decided, what is acceptedand what is good and what is

(15:27):
like the best. And we don't evenknow a lot of the things that
were also really amazing becausebecause of just whoever was in
power, usually the person withmoney, destroying it, like
actually just destroying it. Andin researching my own, like
family background, and I'mMexican, so like untangling all
of that, it's like, there's somuch that isn't even known

(15:49):
because it just wasn'tdocumented or researched in the
same way that European arthistory and craft also has been
documented and, and researched.
And like you can find booksabout like this particular type
of embroidery, whereas withother other parts of the world
and other other peoples, youjust you can't even find that,
which I think is reallyupsetting.

Jen Hewett (16:10):
Well, and often it may be it was documented, right?
Maybe those communities havetheir own way of documenting and
passing down that tradition. Butwhen you eradicate those
communities, then you lose thatknowledge as well.

Stephanie Eche (16:23):
Yeah, definitely. And, and also the
perspective of like, who wasdoing the documenting and what
was considered preserved, Iguess, like, if textiles are
often considered, and I thinkkind of unfairly so but is
something domestic, it onlyexists in the home, or it's
something that women do only.
And your artwork lives both in,in the home and outside of the

(16:45):
home. And like all around whenpeople are wearing it, like I'm
wearing this is this is yourwork. And as I was wondering if
you consider yourself an artistworking in public space, and if
so, why and if not, why not?

Jen Hewett (17:01):
I mean, I'll backtrack and say that I don't
think it's unfair to think oftextiles as existing within the
domestic sphere, I don'tactually think there's anything
wrong with anything existingwithin the domestic sphere. It
is, you know, just because it'sa world that's dominated by
women doesn't make it lesserthan. And so when I think about

(17:22):
my work, you know, existingwithin the domestic sphere, so
pillows, bedding, dish towels, Ithink that's actually, you know,
it's pretty exciting. It'spretty exciting to be allowed
into someone's home, someone'spersonal space, or even, you
know, to be adorning somebody'sbody, I think that's a great, a
great honor and a great tribute.
For someone to think about that.

(17:44):
Or to wear my own things. Idon't think we necessarily think
that hard about what we'rewearing and why. But, you know,
for that scarf to be somethingyou grabbed today and tied
around your neck, like, that'san honor to me. And so, do I
think of myself as a public- mywork existing in the public
sphere? I mean, it depends onwhat you think what you classify

(18:05):
the public sphere as. Someonewalking around with a scarf that
I made outdoors. Is that public?
I think so. You know, and I'veheard stories, friends went to
Rhinebeck, which is the sheepand wool festival here in the
Hudson Valley. And they saw fivedifferent women wearing one of
the scarves I've made, likethat's and they noticed it,
that's pretty exciting. But Idon't know if that's like any

(18:30):
more or less public than, say, amuseum, which to be honest,
like, I'm not a fine artist, mywork probably would not end up
in a museum. Maybe one day itwill be in the Design Museum.
But a fine art museum, no, youknow, that's not the destination
of my work. But do I think thatmy work impacts a lot of people?
And yes, I do. Actually, I thinkthat in a way, you go to a

(18:53):
museum and you see somethingthere once a year, twice a year,
if you're an artist, maybe everyweek, but if you're not an
artist, you're still a consumerof art, you may be just don't
think of yourself as a consumerof art. And so something that I
have made is something thatyou're using, and you look at it
every day, that has like a realtactile meaning to you, in a way

(19:15):
that say a sculpture that yousee like I mean, a Rodin
sculpture, The Thinker, whichthere are zillions of them
around the world, but that youmay see, you know, it's a thing
you see you walk away from, youmight not think about it until
you encounter it again.

Stephanie Eche (19:32):
Do you categorize things as either art
or craft? Or do you considersomething as both or does it
just depend on what it is?

Jen Hewett (19:41):
I think it depends on what it is, you know, I think
they overlap in a lot of waysand I think in many ways, you
can't have art without craftbecause there's a pretty high
level of craft and skill thatgoes into making a piece of art.
But not all craft is art. Forexample, quilting, I think there

(20:01):
are people who are highly highlyskilled quilters, or knitters,
who are maybe making somechoices about fabric. But if
they're following a pattern, Ithink that's that's more craft
than art, that point at whichyou're starting to make
something that is fully anexpression of your, your

(20:22):
interests and your skill andyour vision that makes it art.
But I could be wrong. I mean, Ihave friends who say no, anybody
who makes a thing is an artist.
I don't know if that's I don'tknow that. I believe that. But I
do think that anybody who makesart in a concerted way, in a
studied way, is heavily involvedin craft, and anybody who makes

(20:45):
anything at all with any kind ofskill is also involved in craft.

Stephanie Eche (20:51):
Yeah, I like the way you put it up making
something that's expressivelytheir own art. It's, it's kind
of going off the pattern. Yeah,I also have no idea. I thought
about it a lot.

Jen Hewett (21:05):
Paint by Numbers is fantastic. It's a lot of people
love doing it. And you can mixaround the colors and not use
the colors the way that they'reintended to and swap number 19
for a different color. Is thatis that art? I don't know, you
know, but I know that paintingby numbers, the way that you're
supposed to is not art, it mightnot even be craft.

Stephanie Eche (21:30):
Yeah, it's something I remember talking to
someone about and they were anartist, or consider themselves
an artist and a crafter. And itwas like, not understanding why
someone wouldn't make their owncoloring book, you know, like,
all you have to do is drawlines, and then you can color in
it and it's kind of that maybethat difference of are you
drawing your own lines? Or areyou coloring inside of someone

(21:52):
else's lines. But of course,there's plenty of artists who
color inside someone else'slines and are considered
artists. So that's where I thinkit gets kind of confusing.

Jen Hewett (22:00):
It's a total aside about coloring books, I learned
from somebody who was apreschool teacher, preschool and
kindergarten teacher, thatcoloring books actually serve a
really important motor skillfunction, which is that how kids
learn how to hold crayons andpencils correctly when before
they go to school. So coloringwithin the lines is actually

(22:22):
training your hand to be able todo that motion and control your
motion. And when kids don't do alot of that anymore, because
they're on their devices a lotlike really little kids and she
said she had noticed a changeover the last few years where
kids come into kindergarten nothaving colored. So she has to

(22:42):
get out the coloring sheets,which she hates for these kids
because they can't actuallylearn how to write until they've
learned how to control theirhands.

Stephanie Eche (22:49):
Wow, that's so interesting. And kind of
depressing. But everyone shouldmake sure if they're hanging out
with kids, they color with them.
What's your favorite way to weara scarf?

Jen Hewett (23:04):
Oh my gosh. I mean, I'm I'm always tying them around
my neck. I lived in SanFrancisco for 25 years. It's
cold there. It's like this dampcold that even now living here
in the Hudson Valley, I can'tadequately explain just how cold
San Francisco can be.

Stephanie Eche (23:20):
Sorry, that's so funny to me. Because it is
different. It's different.

Jen Hewett (23:24):
And you're cold inside your house in San
Francisco. Like everything isdrafty and thin and the heating
is terrible. So I always wore ascarf around my neck there even
in the summer because the summerwould be like 55 degrees and
foggy and it's a horrible damp,cold. And so my little like my
little 22 inch scarves with likethe one you're wearing right

(23:46):
now, those are perfect for dayswhen it's not too cold. You just
need something light to keeplike the draft from getting into
your shirt. And then I have alonger scarf which I wear
actually even now even thoughit's 21 degrees today, I will
wear that looped around my necka couple of times, even when I
go outside just because it keepsme warm and toasty. I have very

(24:08):
short hair now but when I hadlonger hair I might wear a scarf
is a headband or to tie my hairback but now that my hair is
very short, I just use barrettesfor that.

Stephanie Eche (24:18):
Is that how the scarves came about by just you
needing one yourself?

Jen Hewett (24:22):
I'm that kid who in college did study abroad and I
went to France and French womenalways wear scarves. And so I
got in the habit of doing that.
And then I came back and it wasthat that obnoxious college
student who was always wearinglike a little scarf around her
neck. But I never fell out ofthe habit of that partly because
I wear the same clothes all thetime. And just changing up my
scarf makes me feel like I havea different outfit.

Stephanie Eche (24:46):
I usually would, well when I lived in San
Francisco, I would buy scarvesat different vintage stores or
thrift, they were really thriftstores, and then there were the
vintage stores. That's where Iwould usually get them so it was
exciting when when I saw thatyou had new ones that were still
beautiful and very unique madeby you. I like the scarves but I

(25:06):
also sometimes I'm like, oh, isthis I don't know. I wish more
people wore scarves, I guess.

Jen Hewett (25:11):
I do too. I would, I would sell a lot more scarves.
But also you wouldn't feel weirdbeing the one person like
walking around, for example, mein the Hudson Valley walking
around with like a little scarfaround my neck in the fall.

Stephanie Eche (25:25):
We'll just make it a thing. We'll make it a
new, a new, a new old trend. Inyour book, This Long Thread,

(25:48):
there are a lot of stories aboutartists learning crafts from
their elders and finding adeeper connection to their craft
after researching their ownfamily histories. I've learned
to sew and crochet from my Nana.
And I was wondering if you thinkgenerational knowledge is passed
down through craft, and thenalso how you think the internet
has affected this particularlyamong people of color?

Jen Hewett (26:09):
Hmm, I definitely think it is something that's
passed down through craft, Ithink craft and cooking. I think
honestly, those are the thingsthat when you come to this
country, regardless of you know,whether you're a refugee or an
immigrant or an enslaved person,often those are the things that
you're allowed to keep you'reallowed to keep your food,

(26:30):
you're allowed to keep yourcraft, right. And so when you
lose your food and you lose yourcraft, you lose part of your
connection to your ancestors.
But I also think that in manyways craft is community that
it's the way much in the sameway that cooking and eating
together are craft, particularlyfor women. I think Chawne Kimber
talks about it in the book, inher interview, and then also,

(26:53):
Shahnaz Khan that Chawne'sfamily, the women would that was
their form of entertainment,right, they would get together
and they would work on a hugequilt together and they would
all quilt somebody piecetogether. And they would gossip.
And then Shahnaz Khan too, herGreek grandmother would not have
enough candles to embroider atnight, which was her only time

(27:17):
that she could she had toherself. So she would get all
the get all the neighbor ladiestogether to bring their candles
out and they would all bring alltheir candle LEDs and would be
able to, to embroider togetherby candlelight. And so I think I
think that these are, you know,this is how knowledge gets
passed. And a lot of theknowledge that gets passed is

(27:37):
like, quite honestly, gossip,which is really important in
societal cohesion is gossip, youknow, it gets poo pooed because
it's what women do. But actuallylike how, how much do we learn
about dynamics and how tointeract with people and how not
to behave except through, like,through gossip? So yes, I think
that act of doing something withour hands and just talking,

(28:02):
that's a way that a lot ofgenerational knowledge is passed
down.

Stephanie Eche (28:08):
And with the internet being a place where
there are millions, billions ofcraft communities, where all
types of people from all overthe world are able to connect in
these ways that we never havebefore. Do you think that's
overall a positive thing or anegative thing? Or neither?

Jen Hewett (28:28):
No, I think it's a net positive, because we're able
to learn more from differenttypes of people. And we're
exposed to hopefully, I mean, ifyou're an open minded, curious
person, you're exposed to a lotmore craft and a lot more
different experiences than maybeyou would have found in your own

(28:50):
community. Now what you do withthat is the question, do you
appropriate it, you know,there's definitely a lot of that
happening, or do you appreciateit, and acknowledge that not
everything is for you to take.
But also you can learn how todevelop your own skills, like a
lot of the work that I have doneas an artist, a lot of the way
that I've gotten better and I'vedeveloped my voice has been to

(29:12):
be exposed to other types ofwork, that aren't necessarily
surface design that aren'tprintmaking, in fact, like I
unfollowed, a bunch of printmakers, because I didn't want to
be overly influenced by theirwork, right, that I wanted to be
able to continue to do my ownthing. But taking in all these
different inputs from otherplaces, and other people has

(29:33):
definitely influenced the kindof work that I do. Do I make it
my own? Absolutely, yes. But isit important to have curiosity
about the world and about itspeople? Absolutely.

Stephanie Eche (29:47):
Do you think though that, like the way Search
Engine Optimization works, andjust kind of who's more likely
to be found online, can kind ofpush you more and more into like
a similar community or I meanInstagram's, a great example of
that of like, if you startliking something or watching
something, you're going to seemore things like that which

(30:10):
might push you down more more ofa silo as opposed to like, I
feel like you just even with theinternet, you have to continue
to make an effort to be curiousabout lots of different things,
right, instead of just like kindof being directed, I think
that's kind of like the big, thebig gap of what I've seen a lot

(30:30):
of people do. It's like, they'reonly they're only aware of
certain things, because they'reonly searching for certain
things basically.

Jen Hewett (30:37):
Or they're not searching. So the question is,
are you an active or a passiveconsumer? You know, being active
means that you're actuallysearching out the answers, and
looking for information andlooking for artists. And being
passive means that you're justtaking whatever the algorithm
serves you. And, you know, I, Iknow that there are a lot of

(30:57):
passive consumers of media outthere who think that they're
active, and are kind of at themercy. Their knowledge is at the
mercy of what the algorithmwants to feed them. Does that
make things worse? Yeah,absolutely. Is technology to
blame for that? A lot of it?
Yes. But technology is alsopreying on things that I think
are innate to us, culturally,for example, racism, you know,

(31:21):
distrust of science, antiintellectualism, like, these are
all things that existed beforethe internet came along. And the
internet just happens to beexploiting because it's good for
business. But I think it reallydepends on what type of a person
and what type of a consumer youare.

Stephanie Eche (31:43):
So I came across an interview you did with Lisa
Congdon on her podcast, whichI'll link to in the show notes,
and you talk about boundariesand making the work you want to
make, how do you decide whensomething is worth making? And
how do you know when it's timeto move on?

Jen Hewett (31:59):
Oh, and I decided something is worth making,
because I want to do it. To behonest, some of the best work
I've done and some of the workthat has led to the most other
work and most projects and likemoney in the long term is work
that I did, because I justwanted to do, I just wanted to
do it. And then I know when it'stime to get to move on, when I'm

(32:22):
tired of something. My decision,and I talked about this in my
interview with Lisa, too, isthat I want to have some fun
while I'm doing this. And so Itake on the kind of work that I
want to do. And I walk away fromprojects, you know, after after
I've given them my all, I walkaway from them, when when I'm no
longer interested in doing them,or when I feel like I'm done. I

(32:45):
never want to be that artist whomakes the same work for the rest
of her life.

Stephanie Eche (32:49):
Do you ever have like, multiple things that you
are really into are reallyinterested in trying? And then
how do you decide which one tostart with?

Jen Hewett (32:59):
Oh, I do have multiple things that I want to
work on. But quite often, it's apull between commercial work,
and much more like hands on fineart work. So a lot of the
quilting that I do that requiresme to make my own fabric and do

(33:20):
layouts and you know, sit withsomething for a while, that
isn't work that I'm able to dounless I block out an extended
period of time to do it. Whereasthe commercial work, like a lot
of times, I just have to do itbecause it's what brings in the
money and will allow me to takea month off. So there's, there's
this push and pull. And Ihaven't really experienced that

(33:43):
or hadn't experienced thatreally until the past 18 months,
and not because of COVID. Butbecause my career suddenly took
off in this way that I hadn'texpected it to happen all at
once. And so had a lot ofcommercial work that I was
working on. And then, but thatallowed me to take off two
months to move across thecountry. And then I have all

(34:03):
this other commercial workthat's starting up again, which
will allow me to take offprobably the entire month of
February to work on the projectsI want to work on. So you know,
sometimes you just have to doless exciting work that you that
you don't I want to say lessexciting, cuz I love the
commercial stuff. But sometimesyou just have to make those
sacrifices. And it's not likeyou can have it all at any one

(34:24):
moment. But maybe over, youknow, the span of my career. I
can have it all.

Stephanie Eche (34:29):
And you're also making time for the personal
projects or the other. The noncommercial work, so to speak,
which may or may not becomecommercial at some point, right?
Yeah. So you're prioritizinghaving that time to just make
and that's like why you'reputting in the other time to get
there. I think that's reallyhelpful advice or just nice to

(34:50):
know because I think a lot oftimes when you see a successful
craftsperson, it's like youthink that they're like just
making all the time or like, orthey're just doing all these
like big projects all the time,but usually it's, I feel like
it's a combination of bothbecause you have to kind of like
keep feeding the machine to keepgoing. Are there any artists you

(35:15):
are particularly inspired byright now?

Jen Hewett (35:18):
Yes, there is a UK artist named Luna Chatterjee,
who is a ceramicist. And I firstbecame aware of her work
probably a decade ago. If yeah,I remember her being featured in
maybe Elle decoration UK orsomething like that. And I cut
out, I cut out an article abouther it wasn't even an article,

(35:41):
it was just like a quarter pagewith a photo of her and some of
her work. And I was reallyintrigued by her clay work. And
I think at that time, she wasstill doing, like custom tile
for home installations, I couldbe wrong, I have to look it up.
But recently, she had a big soloshow at a gallery in London, and

(36:01):
somebody had posted about it.
And I thought, oh, I know thisname. And it's amazing to see
how her work is evolved and itstill has the same hand that it
had 10 years ago, but I hadn'treally thought about her work
since then. And so I've beenreally doing this deep dive into
into her path into the work thatshe's doing now. And it's, it's
fascinating to me, I'm reallyexcited to, to kind of

(36:23):
rediscover it for myself. Yes,but highly, highly, highly
recommend checking out her work,because it's a lot of like, it's
a little bit Bauhaus. But it'snot quite, she's also South
Asian descent, and there's likesome motifs that are very
graphic and, you know, notrepresentation at all at all,
that are not that are kind offamiliar with in Indian block

(36:48):
printing. And so it's just,it's, yeah, it's this wonderful
melding of all these differentinfluences into a form that you
wouldn't necessarily think of.
Because it's less, it's lessabout ceramics and more about
sculpture, although I know thoseoverlap. Yeah.

Stephanie Eche (37:07):
Awesome. I'll definitely link to her work in
the show notes and check herout, because I haven't heard of
her work, either. Is there anyfiber or textile work in public
space that you've seen that youreally enjoy?

Jen Hewett (37:18):
I was thinking about this, and I couldn't really I
couldn't come up with anything.
And I think it's partly becausefiber art in a public space is a
really hard thing to do, justbecause it's not, it's not
durable in the way that like,we're used to seeing sculpture
in public spaces. And that'sbecause sculpture is kind of
made for public spaces, it'smade out of metal, or really
hard wood or marble, and it justisn't meant to be in those

(37:42):
spaces. Whereas textiles,because they're related to the
domestic sphere, are reallymeant to be indoors and
protected. And not handled by alot of people handled by the
same handful of people. So Icouldn't really think of
anything, which, you know, maybesays something about the
limitations of, of my knowledgeand experience there. But I

(38:05):
wasn't able to come up withanything.

Stephanie Eche (38:09):
It's something that I'm kind of researching
right now, in I don't know ifI'm going to do work in public
space, but I consult helpingartists who work in public
space, and there's definitely alot of fiber that goes on in
public space, but it's normallylike, spaces that are accessible
to the public, but not outside,right, like because of the

(38:29):
because things get wet. But I'veseen some interesting, like, you
know, using non traditionaltextile materials for in textile
techniques, like, and I've hadsome ideas myself of like, what
if you did like an LED sculpturethat was a weaving but it was
using plastic over lighting or,you know, something that could
be actually protected from theelements. But I do think that's,

(38:53):
that's probably why my questionearlier about, like textiles,
unfortunately, being in thedomestic space, because for me,
I'm like, oh, why don't I seemore textiles in public space?
And it's totally it's totallywhat you said it's totally being
an elements thing, but I thinkwe'll see more in the future at
least using craft concepts inpublic art.

Jen Hewett (39:16):
Janet Eshelman probably is the person who's
maybe the most successful atthis. I think her training is in
architecture, so but I have I'venever actually seen any of her
work in person myself.

Stephanie Eche (39:28):
Alright, that's we need to see more textiles and
public space. How does yourinteraction with public space
inspire your artwork?

Jen Hewett (39:37):
Hmm. Well, when I was living in San Francisco, I
lived a couple of blocks fromGolden Gate Park and so I was in
Golden Gate Park all the time.
And it was, it was where I tookmy dog in the morning to go for
a walk. It's where I would takemyself in the afternoon when I
was stumped and needed a breakto clear my mind. It's where I
watched the seasons change. Somuch of my work, the work that I

(40:00):
made in San Francisco was reallyabout my daily experiences of
landscape of those very, youknow, in in the Bay Area in San
Francisco in particular, there'sthis amazing combination of very
controlled landscape veryconstructed such as Golden Gate
Park, or even the way that thestreets are laid out in San

(40:22):
Francisco in a grid where theyshouldn't be because
everything's hilly. And alsonature, right, like, we've got
the Marin Headlands, which arejust this gorgeous range of
mountains, welcome you into theSan Francisco Bay, we have the
San Francisco Bay. And then youalso have like the Golden Gate
Bridge on top of it, which isalso this engineering structure,

(40:43):
which is stunning. And for somereason adds to the bay adds to
that vista in a way that a lotof other structures would not or
do not. And so having access tothose kinds of spaces really
informed my process, or theywere a part of my process, and
they were a huge part of myinspiration, too.

Stephanie Eche (41:04):
And how has your recent change in scenery
affected your work?

Jen Hewett (41:07):
Well, it's definitely darker here. Further
north, in the winter, it's justdarker. And we're not even in
the winter yet. But it gets darkat 415. And so the light and the
saturation that I'm used to justmy work is it's got a darker,
darker ground to it, I'm using alot more dark saturated colors

(41:27):
instead of like vivid pinks andlilacs. So we'll see also, you
know, seasons, I'm not used toseasons like this. Right now, my
studio is in the attics that'sin the third floor of my home.
And I realized last week thatall the leaves had fallen off
the trees, so I could actuallysee into my neighbor's homes. In

(41:50):
this way I couldn't because Imoved here in the summer and
everything was lush, gorgeous.
And there's a sense of curiosityabout how is everybody else
living? I can see into theirhomes now. And how do we feel
about privacy? And are peopleexpecting privacy? Am I allowed
to like peer into people'swindows surreptitiously. So
it's, it's sparking all theseideas about this desire for

(42:12):
privacy, but also a sense thatmaybe even when you think you're
private, you're kind of ondisplay? But none of us talk
about it?

Stephanie Eche (42:23):
Do you fill out more here than you did in San
Francisco?

Jen Hewett (42:27):
Yeah, and partly because I live in a semi rural
area, whereas in San Franciscowas in the heart of the city.
And so in San Francisco, we justall because we were all living
on top of each other, we allpretended not to see. Right?
That's like part of theagreement when you're living in
a city is you, you just pretend.

Stephanie Eche (42:48):
You don't peek through the windows to see what
someone's watching? Or maybe,maybe I do sometimes.

Jen Hewett (42:54):
Whereas here, it's a little bit, you know, people are
friendly, or they want to talk,they want to know your business.
And so it's which I also enjoy.
But it's it's a change, forsure. And so I'm not, you know,
I'm not sure the rules of theplace yet.

Stephanie Eche (43:11):
That's really interesting. And I think
probably, maybe, yes, specificto being in a more rural area
than a city but also interestedin like, I feel like there's
always like this East Coastversus West Coast thing. And I
just don't think that's true.
There's so many more elements tothings but like the light is,
there is less light at certainparts of the year here than
there is in San Francisco, orlike the weather that you were

(43:33):
talking about. I feel like whenI lived in San Francisco, I
always knew how to dress becauseI could just wear the same
things all the time, even if itwas like taking this jacket off
and putting it back on, in thecourse of a day. But here, it's
like I have completely differentclothes that I have to put away
and then take out every season,which is so weird, but normal.
Have you ever created artworkspecifically for public space?

Jen Hewett (44:00):
Not yet.

Stephanie Eche (44:02):
Would you ever be interested in doing that?

Jen Hewett (44:04):
Potentially? It depends. Indoors? Yes. A lot of
my work is still on such a smallscale, that I'm not sure how
well it would sit in a publicspace. But there could be a
point at which I'm able to workon a larger scale. And it could
sit in a public space where youknow, it's visible to many. Part
of the move to the Hudson Valleywhere I live now was really

(44:27):
about having more space to makemy work and now that I have more
space really thinking about howI'm going to make- how and when
I'm going to make that happen.

Stephanie Eche (44:36):
That's exciting.
In one of your interviews withSonya Phillip in your book, This
Long Thread, Sonya talks aboutthe experience of like seeing

(45:00):
clothes in Anthropology and thennot really feeling like they fit
her body or that they would bewould be around long enough for
you her to even go back to getthem and just how they were kind
of part of this like consumerismcurated thing, which I very much
have a love hate relationshipwith Anthropology specifically.
And I was wondering now that youhave your own work for sale in

(45:20):
Anthropology, things that you'vedesigned, how how do you feel
about just kind of herexperience, and then your
experience now being on theother side of that?

Jen Hewett (45:34):
Well, I have a really conflicted relationship
with retail in many ways. Eventhough I am a retailer and I
sell the retail, I never want tocreate a lot of stuff, I don't
want to create, essentiallythings that are going to become
landfill really quickly. Andpart of my attraction to making
home goods is that there arethings that are used and loved

(45:57):
and kept around. And so I thinkit would be different if I had
been designing fabric forclothes, really, of any brand at
any price point, which by theway doesn't pay very well.
Because this is reallyinteresting, though, that
doesn't pay very well, becausethose clothes are not meant to
be on the shelves for very longwear, right? So the pace of

(46:22):
creation is just so much faster.
Whereas I created home goods,like I design fabric that is
being used on furniture, oncouches, on chairs, and those
are the kinds of things that arearound for a long time, like
you, you spend $2,000 on acouch, you're probably going to
have the couch for a few years.
So I feel less conflict aroundthat, you know, and same with

(46:43):
bedsheets like we use bedsheetsevery single day, and we use
them until they're threadbare,and they can get repurposed into
a lot of quilters will make theminto quilts or you can cut them
up and make them into rags orinto dish towels. And so I don't
really have an issue with havingwork at Anthropology or at any
of the other retailers that Iwork with, specifically because

(47:05):
I'm on the other side of it, butI'm also not creating goods that
I feel are highly disposable.

Stephanie Eche (47:10):
And they're not going out of style every three
weeks or whatever that are beinglike switched in and out. Yeah,
I think there's some there'ssomething timeless about your
work and there are pieces thatyou will want in your in your
home for a while not things thatyou're like, oh, I have to
switch this out, because it'snot this season anymore, or it's
like, not current anymore. Yeah,I was very excited to find all

(47:32):
of your work in I think therewas a chair maybe. I think you
designed fabric for a chair.

Jen Hewett (47:39):
Definitely for Anthropology.

Stephanie Eche (47:41):
Okay. Must be an anthropology one. Yeah. So I've
been eyeing that. Maybe someonewill bring it to me for
Christmas. I don't know. Yeah,definitely investment pieces,
which I think is awesome.
Because you do live in the homeswith people for a very long
time. You've worked on a varietyof projects with clients like
licensing, artwork, designing,publishing, teaching, what's the

(48:03):
best experience you've hadworking with a client?

Jen Hewett (48:07):
Hmm, so one of my licensees, we were just on the
same page, like we were veryclear that contract negotiations
were pretty straightforward. Thecontract was really
professional. My attorney hadjust mild, you know, changes to
make minor changes. The merchantI was working with was
fantastic. The art director wasvery clear, they had clear style

(48:29):
guides, really clear colorpalette that they wanted me to
work within, or I could suggestother colors as well. But the
brief was like this is supposedto be for spring. And so keep
it, keep it light, keep it fun,people are just coming out of
winter. And so it was just kindof a dream project to work on.
And it was clear that they haddone this before that they had

(48:51):
their own internal processesthat they followed, and that
they also had processes theyfollowed with their artists. And
it was was just a delight.

Stephanie Eche (49:01):
Do you have any tips for clients who want to
hire artists for projects?

Jen Hewett (49:05):
Ooh, yeah, I think to be really clear about what
you want in terms of timeline.
And also like rounds of review.
Those are really, reallyimportant and also to building
cushion for your team and yourteams feedback because one of
the projects that I worked onthat I that didn't go quite as

(49:27):
well, because it was on such acompressed timeline. There were
a lot of shortcuts that weretaken. So the design team would
work really quickly to get stuffdone. And then it would get to
the client and the clientwouldn't be able to corral
everybody in order to give ustimely feedback. So we had done
all this work to rush things andthen the client was taking their

(49:49):
time getting back to us. And soit was it was really rough
because yeah, we were justbusting our butts and so was the
client but also they hadn'tbuilt in. They didn't really
understand how much time itwould take for them to get good
feedback. So timelines are superimportant, just the number of
deliverables and reallyunderstanding and being clear
with the artists or with thedesigners about what that means

(50:10):
and what that will look like.
And contracts are fantastic,like, have a contract and don't
expect that the contract isgoing to be signed the next day.
I tell people, you might want tothink for me in two weeks, but
in two weeks, we will just begetting through the contract
negotiations. So, know that.

Stephanie Eche (50:31):
Right? Yeah, realistic expectations. And an
article in the San FranciscoChronicle, Confessions of a
Multiple Career Personality, youtalked about splitting your week
between, what you were doing atthe time, which was the business
consulting. This was 2011, anarticle I found and then
splitting your time between thebusiness consulting and then

(50:52):
your your art work, whether thatwas like personal projects, or
your art business. And I wascurious about when did you
decide to like put it alltogether, and not that you're
necessarily business consultingnow. But like, basically use all
of your skill set in one thingunder one brand, and kind of
full steam ahead on oneverything.

Jen Hewett (51:13):
So I never, I never mixed the art and the
consulting, those are always twovery separate things. And to the
point where I didn't tell myconsulting clients because I was
doing HR consulting, that I wasalso an artist, they might find
out about it might come upeventually, but I didn't tell
them upfront. So that I, I was abusiness consultant, and HR
consultant until the end of2016. And then I quit that,

(51:36):
because it was clear that my artcareer was taking off in a way
that I was going to be able tosupport myself without the
income from consulting, but Inever, I never mixed the two and
I never wanted to mix the two.

Stephanie Eche (51:48):
You were like, okay, no more of this. And I'm
just going to be focused on art,I guess that makes it easier.

Jen Hewett (51:57):
So the consulting was always a means to an end,
it's what I did, so that I hadenough money and enough time to
be an artist, because as aconsultant, I could set my own
hours, and I could choose my ownclients. Because I work for
myself, you know, I would getclients based on referrals. And
I always knew that I didn't wantmy art to be my sole source of
income in the beginning, becausethat would force a lot of

(52:18):
constraints on my work on what Icould do and the type of work I
was doing and the type of peopleI was selling to. And what
consulting allowed me to do wasto develop a style and a voice
that wasn't necessarilycommercial. And I could make a
lot of mistakes. I couldexperiment, I could do personal
projects, because I wasn'trelying on that for my income.

(52:39):
So when it was time for whenwhen I had achieved my goals,
and when I was able to supportmyself for my work without
compromising the work I wasdoing. I knew that I could, I
could quit consulting.

Stephanie Eche (52:52):
What's something you wish you had known when you
first began your career?

Jen Hewett (52:55):
Hmm, that the making part, the creative part would
actually not be how I spent mythe bulk of my day. But the bulk
of my time would be spent on allkinds of other things that go
into running a business, becauseessentially, I'm running a
business.

Stephanie Eche (53:13):
I guess that's what in my head, I was thinking
as far as like putting it alltogether, like instead of using
your business skills, likepredominantly on HR consulting,
it's like all of the things thatyou learned in that I'm sure go
into how you run your businessas far as like just things
you've learned over time, eventhough obviously, you're not
doing HR consulting, but likeinteracting with clients or
contracts or like all those funthings that I think as a maker,

(53:37):
you don't necessarily, it's notlike you what you dream about
working on a contract when youdream about being a full time
artist or crafter. But that issuch a big part, I think of
making money off of what youmake, basically.

Jen Hewett (53:51):
Well, I've always thought about what I do as a
business. To be honest, therewas never a point at entering
into this that I thought it was,you know that I was an artist
and that was divorced from themoney and the operational side
of it. And that's because I cameinto this, this is like either
my second or my fifth career,depending on how you look at it,
that I worked in, I worked inbusiness, I worked in education.

(54:14):
I worked in educationalnonprofits. I worked in a
startup, I worked in tech, likeI had all these jobs where I was
not even doing creative work. Iwas doing operational work. And
so it wasn't like I decided,okay, I've learned all this
stuff from HR, and I'm going toput it into my business. It's
just that all the business stuffI had learned over the years,
went into my HR consulting, butit also went into my business.

Stephanie Eche (54:37):
And then that business just became the only
business right. That's amazing.
Is there anything you've read orlistened to that's inspired you
recently?

Jen Hewett (54:47):
Let's see, I have been listening to maintenance
phase, which is a podcast whichI think a lot of people listen
to, because I hear references toit all the time. But it's about
the wellness industry. And theway it's marketed. And it's
fascinating to me, because it'sreally about, a lot of it is
about twisting facts around, ornot even twisting facts around.

(55:10):
A lot of it's about badresearch. It's about fat phobia,
it's about racism and it's aboutusing bad research to continue
to have those kinds ofpractices. So that's been really
enjoyable to listen to, becauseit's like heavy information. But
also, it's presented in a reallyengaging, informative way. I'm

(55:32):
in the middle of reading TheOther Black Girl, which is a
really fantastic book, I had totake a little break from it,
because it's about to blackwomen in publishing and then my
book was about to come out and Ithought, it's like a thriller.
There's I don't know if there'sa murder involved. I haven't
gotten to that point yet. Butit's definitely there's some
kind of scandal going on. Andthere are lots of like threats

(55:53):
going on. So that's been reallyenjoyable. And I've been reading
a lot more for pleasure ratherthan for education lately,
because you know, my days areheavy. I do a lot of stuff, the
news is not great. So I'd muchrather have a little escapism.

Stephanie Eche (56:10):
I'll definitely link to those things in the show
notes so people can check themout. Where can our listeners
find you online?

Jen Hewett (56:17):
My website is just my name, jenhewett.com. And
that's Hewett with two E'sH.E.W.E.T.T. I'm also on
Instagram @jenhewett and samewith Twitter. And I have a
Facebook page, but I'm not Idon't actively maintain it.
Because there's only one methere's only so much social
media I can handle. And I'm alsoon LinkedIn, but don't follow me

(56:41):
on LinkedIn, or anything. Andquite honestly, that's from my
old consulting days back when Ineeded to find clients and, you
know, be professional in thatway that I don't feel like I
have to be now I'm not going toan office. I don't find work
through LinkedIn.

Stephanie Eche (57:00):
Well, thank you so much for doing this
interview.

Jen Hewett (57:03):
Thank you!

Stephanie Eche (57:04):
Great to chat. I am like halfway through your
book, but I'll be sharing areview soon. It's a great gift.
If anybody's looking for a gift.
I'll link to it in the shownotes. All right. Well, thank
you again. Bye.

Jen Hewett (57:18):
Bye Stephanie.

Stephanie Eche (57:20):
Thanks for listening to this episode of
First Coat. If you like thispodcast, please leave a review.
Make sure to subscribe to theFirst Coat Podcast wherever you
listen to podcasts and follow uson Instagram @firstcoatpodcast
or @distillcreative. First Coatis a production of my company
Distill Creative. Check us outat distillcreative.com.